THE MAGNUS ARCHIVES
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2021
- Case ########-39 Discussion on next steps and consequences, recorded in the tunnels. Content warnings: - Arguments - Guilt & self-recrimination - Smoking - Strong language - Discussions of: altered reality, death & self-sacrifice, mass suffering & mass death - Mentions of: violence & murder, mental deterioration, manipulation, trauma, explosions - SFX: crying
Transcripts: PDF - cutt.ly/rz6dkrj DOC - cutt.ly/fz6db20
Thanks to this week's Patrons: Vigdís Heiðbrá Guðmundsdóttir, Rachael, SomeVariationOfGay, KJ, Grayson Genter, Kaela Roy, Hunter Harder, Jorge García, Emily Krichmar, Dyon Puts, i think ur pretty cool, Autumn Seel-Baker, Clara Rigual Munoz rainy j, potpourri, Chloe, Μυρτώ Απλαντή, Brian Sullivan, Варя Бородина, Iwona Gajór, & Ásgerður Ósk If you'd like to join them, visit www.patreon.com/rustyquill.
Edited this week by Nico Vettese, Elizabeth Moffatt, Brock Winstead, Jeffrey Nils Gardner & Alexander J Newall
Written by Jonathan Sims and directed by Alexander J Newall
Sensitivity consultation by Alexander Linde Nielsen
Produced by Lowri Ann Davies
Performances: "The Archivist" - Jonathan Sims - "Martin Blackwood" - Alexander J Newall - "Basira Hussain" - Frank Voss - "Melanie King" - Lydia Nicholas - "Georgie Barker" - Sasha Sienna
Sound effects this week by altfuture, daboy291, DrDufus, gaby7129, gggtrew, JK129645, kyles, lartti, nintendoto, quetzalcontla, Sheyvan, sityu, soundhunterjulie, SpliceSound, steinhyrningur, theshuggie, thewestwind, tmkappelt, unkleceeg, vibe_crc, theshuggie & previously credited artists via freesound.org. Additional sound effects from www.zapsplat.com.
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Hearing Melanie say "Because of Us" instead of just blaming Jon was so cathartic
The fact that the line 'can I have a cigarette' is reappearing from the first episode in the second last one...dude...
Full circle
Definitely gave me pause. I love how something so simple can become so powerful within the context of a story
Oh my god u're right
Then there’s me sitting back here thinking about The Admiral. I just want to hear that precious cat purring again.
Istg that purring always makes me smile so much
I really got Anglerfish flashbacks when she asked for a smoke, kinda miss those times.
Really brings me back to when I listened to that episode, not really yet knowing what to expect haha
well, it's come to this. prepare for episode 200 everyone. And good luck.
Man I really wish Helen was part of this conversation. I would love to know what she'd say
"I say we kill everybody. Killing is fun, you ever had fun Jon? Your such a wuss"
There that's what she would have said
@@nateds7326 She was always saying how much she loved what the world had become with The Change. I think she would've killed to stop them hastening its End.
@@8s700 yeah, probably 😅
This is old but “fuck it we ball” probably or something along those lines
@@cherrisoda892 "yEeS guYs nEW unIveRsE foR meEeEe"
“If it’s just a matter of guilt, then I’ll take it right now!”
That’s so Martin… remember, he actually enjoys feeling guilty in his own weird way. 🤣
@cak01vej and because he believes that, the guilt becomes a strange comfort.
Ooh I don't like that Jon was once again influenced to forget about the importance of his lighter
And Georgie’s line there…
“Can I have a cigarette ?”
Flashbacks.
@@timmagness7949
Yeah right ! Jonny Sims even re-wrote it to be the exact same words lol (it initially wasn't the case).
The Anglerfish was such an iconic monster... the Stranger was always the entity that got to me
@@macabrecitrus2127 i rewatched ep 1 and 2 recently, it's such a weird experience noticing all the connecting threads
@@bleddynwolf8463
True
Godspeed, soldiers.
Episode 199 and Jon finally gets to cry. God help me
Everyone is scaring me :') _Can the comments section become a fear-_
Internet discourse is a modern Hive
Who says comment sections aren't a fear domain already
We are clearly the most successful fear✨
Only one episode left... and I'm still not ready for whatever is coming next week. Still, looking forward to it, now. It's been a heck of a ride.
Good luck, everyone, and may you have your best emotional support items ready.
Okay but them all, Jon especially, being like yeah, it's all OUR fault, we caused the end of the world. Dude. Jonah Magnus, the man who manipulated everyone involved without them knowing and planned this since before any of them were even born, is LITERALLY right above their heads. The blame game really isn't relative to the situation, especially then you remember the Web had a hand in literally everything too. There wasn't really a scenario in which they could come out in top, not with the very limited knowledge and resources they had.
THANK YOU GEORGIE!
Addendum: Do NOT let Jon go up the tower, you will bloody regret it. He hasn't changed his mind and he will definitely, undoubtedly, attempt to become the pupil. Come. On.
Yeah and aside from that fact it also had me like, "Guys, I get it but all this time you convinced Jon it was his fault alone, basically, so now he's obviously not gonna believe you when you tell him it isn't"
Yeah if you put a gun in someone's hand and force them to pull the trigger and kill someone, it's kinda hard to say that's their fault
I'm not crying... you're crying.
Dilly, dally.
*_We're_* crying, comrade
No one else gonna mention the slight static every time Georgie mentions the lighter?
I remember there being discussions about that on Reddit, real interesting stuff.
It was weird that she wanted it. And weird that Jon didn't say anything. "No, I need this Web artifact until I'm ready to yeet Annabelle" or "Yes, it allows the Web to follow you around".
i feel like they should have listened to jon's concerns.
he was clearly hesitant to be on board with the plan. a good plan? absolutely. but i can see where jon got worried, just letting the entities go elsewhere, to wreak havoc on another world. i think he wants to do right by everyone, not wanting anybody else to suffer as much as he can help it. the others should have listened to his concerns.
i don't think things would have ended the same way if they had just listened to him.
honestly, yes, they should have addressed his concerns far more deeply, but i still subscribe to the theory that the web's been gently guiding everyone into Don't Trust Jon town so that he and martin become overly codependent, since there's always at least a smidgen of hypocrisy in their behaviours between one another and between themselves and him (though our perception is clouded by an unreliable narrator, as proven with jess tyrell's statement)
still, if there are other universes (which is certain, due to anya villette's statement and the fact that she might be the interdimensional counterpart to the nurse from john radcliffe hospital in episodes eight and nineteen, annie willett), then we also have to take multiverse theory into account, which essentially posits that there are infinite alternate universes in which everything does and doesn't happen. every variable is accounted for. in multiverse theory, it doesn't matter if you release the entities or not, because, in an alternate universe, the other choice will be taken. there are infinite entities being released into infinite other universes. there are universes being born for the sole purpose of receiving those entities
it's either terrifying or delightful
Well that's not ominous at all.
Yes, yes. You don't have to be a paranoid to not wonder if Annabelle is lying about how things will go down. Jon thinks she believes it, but who knows if she couldn't create an illusion? A fake Annabelle with fake thoughts to trick him in her own domain with that black hole distracting him.
There might have been a way to do it so the fears were sucked into the hole, but restrained or dispersed. It makes me wonder if the real one being manipulated weren't Martin. He believed Annabelle implicitly, supported her theories. Martin would make sure that Jon did exactly as Annabelle wanted, to save the human part of Jon, rather than step out of line. Annabelle could have kidnapped the others, left a message for Jon to come to Hilltop for them. He'd gone there voluntarily already--ANNABELLE was the one to tell him not to come back.
And Jon's insistence on letting other people in on the decision..I knew ahead of time what choice they'd pick. Its human nature to be selfish. Jon allowing them in was implicitly allowing them to make the selfish choice. Perhaps his submissiveness to the others was another thing inculcated into him, to make sure he'd never truly become his own man.
Basira's bull about Jon killing all humanity...All humanity is already going to die. The Eye gave most humans immortality. Taking that away isn't murder. For all Basira's reasoning, she is a slave to her own dualistic thinking.
10:45 basira and jon learn about the trolley problem
Jon and Martin talking to each other is so cute, I want them to be happy so bad, give them a vacation.
Good luck, men. May God be with you. Well, the gods. All 15 of them.
I wish you all luck.
15:30 “in another life, I would have really liked just doing laundry and taxes with you” :’)
Will...will I survive watching ep 200 again next week ;-; either way this episode was a heavy but calming set up to THE PAIN. I was really happy to have Georgie and Jon get to talk things through since S4
100% agree
Someone said in this podcast that being smart doesn't make you better at taking good decision but only best for defending the one you take, and i think this episode is a perfect illustration of this, because let's face it, none of this option are ideal but everyone find a good justification about their solution
It was Mag 153 Love Bombing.
And yet, at the end of the day, the most ethical decision is to end this world to save others. Period. End if story. It's just too much of a risk. Sure, you don't know for sure the other worlds will suffer like this one, but it's supremely unlikely that they will be fine. And if another universe sent the Fears to this one, aren't you pissed at them for doing that? Wouldn't you say they should have made the sacrifice? At the end of the day, there's only one least bad option and therefore the only good one. Destroy the Fears by any means necessary. Stop trying to eke out another inch of existence, that's what got them in this mess to begin with. It's a horror world, it was always meant to end, don't let the horror win. Pricks.
it's so cathartic to see how much Jon and Martin grew from who they were in S1. Jon was an emotionally stunted, unempathetic and unsympathetic guy hiding behind layers of sarcasm and criticism. seeing him being so open, vulnerable, empathetic and emotional is everything (even though i never wanted him to feel so much guilt that other people unfairly pushed on him). it's like loving someone opened the flood of so many emotions he locked away before.
Martin was an insecure guy full of self-hatred and loneliness, hiding behind layers of empty "nice smiles" and little acts of service to be "useful" (I hate his mom >:|). but we got to see his brave and resilient side throughout all those crazy events in past seasons and look how much he bloomed in S5 while being loved by somebody (and not just somebody but the one he loves). it feels like Jon needed to love someone deeply and Martin needed to be loved by someone to truly know themselves.
Brilliantly put into words 👏👏
" I can't see myself making a decision that would result in losing you" oooohhhhhh nnnoooooooooo
"it took almost two years of crisis and trauma to make us compatible"
I never really loved JonMartin, I'm glad it is there, that it's a thing, but I'm not glad for what happens to the characters (obviously still love the story, perhaps even not in spite but because it makes me suffer) and if none of what happens happened to the characters, it's true, it would be hard to see them together, being compatible. And that's it, I suppose.
to be fair, yes they wouldnt be compatible, but they wouldnt be compatible at the time of season 1. Primarily because neither were compatible with anyone at the time, Jon was too far up his own ass and martin's spine was as bendable as a half melted chocolate eclair, and although the catalyst for their changes happened due to supernatural trauma, gaining a backbone and gaining some respect for other people are rather common changes in people. So yes, they would not have been compatible in season 1 if none of this had happened but they probably would have eventually, maybe even sooner than in the show.
@@siennide "martin's spine was as bendable as a half melted chocolate eclair" PLEASE
@@siennide true, S1 Jon and Martin are not realtionship material in general not just with each other. but by the end of it, i couldn't see them with anyone but each other lol. starting with s3, i saw how good they could be for each other and i think they'd understand it too without the end of the world. Jon is a bit oblivious when it comes to heart matters (and was rather preoccupied with trying not to die half of the time), but as soon as he learned about Martin's feelings, i feel like he couldn't stop thinking about it and that's the only push he needed. so i believe they would have gotten there eventually. maybe even sooner without all the life-threatening supernatural distratctions. or maybe that's just my optimistic trust in the boys talking lol
@@valeriyav2149 So what you are saying is that we NEED a canonical jonmartin wedding? Cus thats what im saying
@@siennide yes, a multiverse wedding with both main casts, dead or alive, and all the Eldritch horrors as attendees 😂
Guys, I can't do this. How is there only one episode left... also I am over here SOBBING because of Jon crying. The very same man who in season 1 I was like, "Does he have emotions? Does he have feelings? Am I supposed to care about these characters because I really don't care about any of them really." and I am crying over all of them. I just... can't.
The powers are just one big game of the cheese touch
Finally jon gets a hug. He needs it
Jon, You want to save me.
Martin, I want you to save yourself.
Me, wibble…
"Sometimes… I imagine if none of this had happened. If we had just… met. Been together, without… all of this."
"Me too..."
*I AM GOING TO SOB*
You wanted to save me , No i wanted you to save yourself, hit so fuckin hard omg 🥺 one episode left
it's been a while since i cried at a tma episode. the existential conversation between martin and jon really got me. they both want to do the right thing but they also just want to leave each other intact. i'm not sure whether to listen to the final ep now or wait, i just don't want it to be over! and i don''t want either jon or martin to sacrifice themselves!
Jon internalized all of the blame people shoved on him and I wish they acknowledged it more
Ok so if they're doing the "boot the entities into our reality option" I really would have preferred if they blew up all the avatars first. Partially because I'd really not like to encounter them but also because it'd be a little more fun if we got to have our own ones.
I'M SORRY, JON DON'T CRY, I'M GONNA CRY
I can't believe I never noticed this before, but every time Georgie mentions the Web lighter we a faint static sound and Jon just grunts instead of properly acknowledging it. It's just like Annabelle said: it always manages to slip his mind. The lighter must have some power to somewhat hide itself from the Eye, always slipping just beneath its notice.
It's truly a shame more people are not aware of this great series, 700 views? A few more zeros should be more like it.
Well, the podcast is also posted on other platforms such as Acast. I'm pretty sure those have a lot more views.
@@fruitygarlic3601
Most people don't listen on TH-cam. The episodes have less views here because they are posted later than on the audio plateforms (Acast, iTunes, Spotify, etc.)
Still not ready. Still want a prequel based on the web, instead of the eye.
Umm, I mean sort of but not really?
We're getting something like that
@@Dani_1012 is it?
@@BeautifulEarthJa It's called The Magnus Protocol. It's a prequel about the Archives I think or perhaps about the Magnus family 🤔 I still don't know the exact details except the name but they did a fundraiser in October I think and it was pretty successful from what I hear. It will be 3 seasons, so pretty neat
Oh dear. By complete coincidence I just caught up and was wondering why 200 wasn't up yet only to realize this was 4 days ago. I... Good luck everyone
Jon: I can’t let anyone else go through the agonies I did.
People who have all witnessed, dismissed, mocked, and actively contributed to his emotional and physical torture while also blaming him for their own suffering and refusing any responsibility for the situation on themselves: We’ll just hope it goes better for them.
Their argument over the morality of their plan is one of the most interesting discussions Ive ever heard
Unfortunately, I thinks Jon's plan was the best one and most responsible one. Yes, you doom your own universe, but you insure that the disease it suffers from does not spread. That and you get to watch the Fears die out of spite.
But how do you know that actually would be the way how it goes down?
@thatjeff7550 you don't. But you can't risk it being exactly like that for other worlds. You would hate the world that sent you the Entities, good way to realize that is a horrible and wrong choice.
@@thatjeff7550 All humanity die anyway. That is just taking away immortality. If the End could mooch people, its possible Jon could have kept people in more tolerable domains, like "oh god I have to say nice things about horrible people" one.
So ends my listening to TMA, after listening to the 200th on Spotify. I’ll probably have more to say once the pieces of my heart and mind have been sown back together. All I can say is
Jesus Fucking Christ.
A hell of a ride, and one I’ll be taking again and again till I know every character by heart. I’m sad I wasn’t here during so I could keep up on speculation and theory, especially the question left in this one, but god am I glad I’m here now.
Fuck, dude.
You really gotta be like that, huh.
What happened to the cows? Did Martin ever find any nice cows??
No, but he did find a big pig
Of course he would tell us if he saw any nice cows!
Another "I love you" from Jon if anyone's interested!
15:03
John, you were used and really had little choice to just walk away. The responsibility falls up on Jonas.
Can I have a cigarette...
i understood that reference.
Well. Y’all have scared me sufficiently for ep 200. Hopefully there is minimal tears but I have m&ms on standby
Ahhh fabric rustles my beloved
This will hurt me, thank you
The idea of this being a "chain letter" is both riveting and terrifying. Think about it for a moment: suppose you had something, some terrible thing, that was destroying your entire world and you could get rid of it. But only by sending it along to some other world, that would suffer and be destroyed in turn. Like having a deadly disease that you can only recover from if you give it to someone else first. It's a fascinating and horrible idea that has been used in horror and fantasy stories for generations. And in the story, their speculation is most likely correct----this monstrous force probably came to this world because it was passed on by another. So what would you do? Save your entire world, your whole species, but at the cost of passing the curse along to another innocent race and world---hoping that they would find a way to destroy it? Pass it along and wash your hands of it? It would, after all be a matter of self preservation----no one could really blame you for deciding to let your race survive. But you would blame yourself. It is the ultimate moral dilemma. It has no "good" answer, and you have no choice but to choose, because doing nothing is worse. A cursed choice like this would delight the devil himself, as each time the "curse" was passed on by good people who did it to save their own world, but condemned others by doing so.
I'd say the good choice would be to make the ultimate sacrifice and save others. Sucks for you, but doing the right thing often does.
Ah, but if you make that choice, you're not really good people anymore. And not worth saving, really. The Trolley problem gets easier sometimes.
Mathematically speaking, if we’re assuming that there really are infinite other realities (which is very likely the case), the chances that their world is the only one that has the powers is so infinitesimally small that it might as well be zero.
There are two possibilities I see, depending on how exactly the powers work. If they weren’t created by the fear of the Magnus Archives universe, then this chain letter has been running for an infinite number of universes over an infinitely long timescale, and will continue this way no matter what the heroes decide to do.
But if they *were* born from this universe? More than likely all of the infinite universes have their own versions of the powers. Or at least an uncountably large number of universes do. And then the question is “what happens if the powers are released into a universe that already has powers? Do they merge with the existing ones? Do they add to them? If they add to them, does that imply that each universe originally had just one power and new ones are “born” whenever a universe manages to get rid of theirs? Is the Extinction just the latest of 14 other universes being freed of their powers at the expense of the Magnus Archives universe?
It is genuinely impossible to really know what happens in that second scenario. But either way, I’d say it’s still better than Jon’s self-sacrificial “I won’t save the world, but I’ll destroy myself to make it slightly better” plan
Whatever they do it's gonna cause someone pain and it breaks my heart
It's still a lot better to destroy the world to save another. You just don't know how bad it will be, and therefore should not take the risk it will be so much worse.
Logically, the fears are based on current humanity, so they come from and are shaped by that reality. If Athena never existed as a concept in this universe, then the spider wouldn't have been weak against the owl.
Infinity is..odd. It does not exist in reality, as far as we know. Really really big numbers are not infinity. And an odd thing is that the universe has its dice flipping mechanic at the most basic quantum level so that any given set can be true, but it changes every time the dice flips. This is why Determinism is impossible. Predicting that dice flip requires greater energy than the universe itself, so by definition, its just impossible for a single universe. Any mechanic than can influence that is unknown to science, even through the multiverse theory.
But mostly, I think they rushed into their decision way too fast.
[CLICK]
[ALL VOICES IN THIS EPISODE HAVE TUNNEL OR TOWER ECHO IN SOME FORM]
MELANIE
So…
ARCHIVIST
Yeah.
[UNCOMFORTABLE PAUSE]
MARTIN
Anyone want another cup of tea?
[SOMETHING WOODEN SCRAPES ACROSS TUNNEL FLOOR]
Well, heh, I say ‘tea’, it’s har-
GEORGIE
We can’t keep putting it off. We need to talk about this. About what we’re going to do.
MARTIN
You mean what John’s going to do.
BASIRA
No. If we’re doing this, it’s gonna take all of us.
MELANIE
You say “If”? It’s basically our only option, right?
ARCHIVIST
No, it’s not.
MELANIE
So, we’re seriously holding up ‘let John become god’ as a legitimate choice here?
BASIRA
We can’t just dismiss it.
[EXASPERATED EXHALES]
MARTIN
Yes, we can.
MELANIE
Seconded!
MARTIN
[Pleased] Thank you.
GEORGIE
We still have to discuss it.
Let’s try to lay this out properly. What are our actual options here? As far as I can see there are three.
MELANIE
Okay.
GEORGIE
One. We follow Annabelle’s plan. We destroy the Panopticon, kill Elias -
ARCHIVIST
Jonah -
GEORGIE
Whatever.
ARCHIVIST
- Magnus.
GEORGIE
We kill him, and release the Fears into… how many other realities?
BASIRA
She said thousands, but I don’t think she actually knows.
GEORGIE
John?
ARCHIVIST
Not something I can see, I’m afraid.
GEORGIE
But is it all other realities, or just some of them?
ARCHIVIST
Does it matter?
MARTIN
I mean, maybe? If there are infinite worlds out there then “thousands” isn’t even a drop in the bucket, cosmically speaking.
MELANIE
“Cosmically speaking”?
MARTIN
You know what I mean.
[MELANIE SIGHS]
BASIRA
It’s still more than one, though, isn’t it? Which is what we’re discussing.
GEORGIE
So again, option one is to kill Jonah Magnus -
MELANIE
Mmhmm.
GEORGIE
- and release the Fears. Save the world, but doom other realities to the Fears.
MELANIE
We don’t know they’ll be doomed.
GEORGIE
Spread the fears to other realities.
Option two is John takes over from Magnus. Keeps the Powers contained here with us, and tries his best to make the place a little more… tolerable, until the end.
MARTIN
And we lose him.
ARCHIVIST
Martin…
MARTIN
No, John, I’m sorry, but if one world still matters in an infinite spread of dimensions, then one person does, too.
MELANIE
I-I think the issue is he matters a bit too much.
MARTIN
The point is you don’t have a responsibility to sacrifice yourself just to make everyone else’s lives a bit easier.
ARCHIVIST
I’ve already made them a hell of a lot harder!
MELANIE
Hmmm.
MARTIN
[Sharply] Then we should all sacrifice ourselves, because everyone in this room has some responsibility for it.
MELANIE
Hey! Georgie didn’t do anything!
GEORGIE
No, Melanie, I, I didn’t.
MELANIE
[Softly] Yeah.
GEORGIE
And maybe I should have. I kept out of it, even when I got a pretty good idea of what was going on towards the end. But… I should have known better. Hiding never helps.
MELANIE
It keeps you alive.
GEORGIE
For a while! But… we couldn’t actually do anything, could we? Couldn’t save anyone.
BASIRA
Okay, fine, blame for everyone. But the hard fact is, John’s the only one who can take over the Panopticon.
MARTIN
Would you stop just putting everything on him?
GEORGIE
Which brings us to our third option.
ARCHIVIST
Which is?
GEORGIE
Do nothing. We… adapt to the new world, and just wait for it to finally end.
ARCHIVIST
Leaving everyone to just suffer until the Powers burn out.
MARTIN
You said yourself that even if you did take over, you couldn’t stop the suffering. If we keep it all trapped here, it’s gonna be hell either way.
BASIRA
It’s alright for us though, isn’t it? We’re not the ones trapped in our worst nightmares.
MELANIE
What’s your point?
BASIRA
Do we actually have the right to make this decision? The five of us? For the whole world, or for maybe infinite worlds we know nothing about?
GEORGIE
No, of course we don’t. But we’re the ones here. And I doubt there’s anyone else out there who’s in a better position to decide.
ARCHIVIST
There isn’t.
GEORGIE
So, we’re the ones that have to make the call, and we need to acknowledge that doing nothing is still on the table as an option.
[LONG EXHALES]
BASIRA
We could ask them.
GEORGIE
Who?
BASIRA
The people trapped in the domains. The ones actually doing the suffering. Why don’t we see what they want?
ARCHIVIST
[Pained] Because I already know. They want it to stop.
But to try and explain it all to them, give them enough context for them to make an actual, meaningful choice… I don’t think it’s possible while they’re still trapped. They’re too much a part of their domains.
BASIRA
So we bring them out.
[To Melanie & Georgie] You’ve rescued people before; we can do it again.
GEORGIE
True…
MARTIN
S-Sure, but we can’t bring everyone out. So then, all we’re actually doing is deciding who makes the call with even less understanding than us.
MELANIE
Right? It’s kind of shitty to bring them out just to ask them if they’re willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
MARTIN
Mmm.
BASIRA
Shittier than just making the decision for them?
MELANIE
If the decision is to do it, maybe they’d be grateful we saved them the guilt.
MARTIN
If it’s just a matter of guilt, then I’ll take it right now. I’d rather live the rest of my life lying awake wondering if I made the right choice, over lying awake listening to the screams of everyone on Earth being tortured!
ARCHIVIST
[Angry] What? So it’s better for a thousand times more people to scream as long as we can’t hear them?
MARTIN
No! Because Annabelle said it wouldn’t be like that. Wherever they go, it’ll be like it was here before, with the Powers just lurking on the edges.
MELANIE
And our world survived like that for… for what, all of history?
MARTIN
Mmmm.
MELANIE
Sure, it’s not great, but it’s, it’s not like those other realities won’t have bad stuff happening already. We all lived with monsters in the shadows, and we just got on with it.
BASIRA
Yeah, until we didn’t - until the ritual kicked off. What’s to stop the same thing happening in these other worlds?
MARTIN
It, it took like millennia of failed rituals before this happened. That means there has to be a chance that it won’t happen at all, right?
GEORGIE
Maybe.
MELANIE
And if it does happen, it will be because of the actions of the people in those other dimensions, just like here it was because of -
ARCHIVIST
Me.
MELANIE
Because of us.
…
My point is, we can’t take responsibility for the hypothetical actions of hypothetical people in all these other universes.
Fundamentally, the Fears travelling to these other places isn’t a death sentence. And even if the worst happens, they might just find themselves in exactly the same situation as us, deciding whether to pass it all along again.
MARTIN
Like the worst chain letter ever.
MELANIE
Exactly. Probably have their own Panopticon, their own Archivists.
MARTIN
[Shudders] Their own Martin.
MELANIE
If they’re unlucky. Heh.
MARTIN
Oh, ha, ha.
ARCHIVIST
But the point is, we have a chance to stop all that. We, we don’t have to post the letter. We can keep them contained, a-and even eventually destroy them.
GEORGIE
Can we?
MARTIN
What do you mean?
GEORGIE
Well… Did Annabelle say for certain that this dimension is where they were, um, ‘born’, I guess?
ARCHIVIST
No. No, the Eye can’t see its own creation, so… I don’t actually know how they came to be. Perhaps we can’t know.
GEORGIE
So, how can we be sure they didn’t come through to our reality in exactly this way? Maybe we’re just another link in a long chain of these things spreading from one dimension to the other, growing at the edges, manifesting, and then escaping to somewhere new.
MARTIN
Like weeds.
BASIRA
Or a fungus.
ARCHIVIST
Sure, but even if that was true, it doesn’t change the situation.
BASIRA
Yes, it does. If it’s a choice between stopping the Fears completely - destroying them once and for all, here and now - or just being one universe they don’t escape, among potentially infinite ones where they do… Those are very different scenarios.
They are to me, at least.
ARCHIVIST
We don’t know. And even if we hunted Annabelle down, and squeezed more information out of her, I don’t think she knows either. We simply don’t have that information, and we can’t just arbitrarily decide what’s true just because it makes the choice easier for us.
MARTIN
And you can’t just arbitrarily decide it isn’t because you want a better reason to martyr yourself!
ARCHIVIST
That’s not what’s happening!
MARTIN
Isn’t it?
MELANIE
Either way, it’s not an unreasonable conclusion. It’s just as likely as this dimension being where they were born. I-It’s more likely, even, which means we’d be condemning everyone for no reason.
ARCHIVIST
Hardly “no reason”. And let’s be honest for a second, you just want an excuse to stick a knife in Jonah Magnus.
GEORGIE
John!
MELANIE
No, he’s got a point. I want that smug bastard dead, and if I got a chance to do it myself, you can bet I would do it in a heartbeat. But if you think that’s all I care about here, then frankly you can fuck off out my tunnels on your high horse.
[TENSE PAUSE]
MARTIN
I, I can’t just hang around, and watch the whole world linger like this on the off-chance that it might do some small good somewhere else.
ARCHIVIST
Maybe it doesn’t have to linger.
BASIRA
You want to think very hard about your next words.
ARCHIVIST
I’m just saying… If I took my place in the Panopticon, I’d hoped I could make it easier for everyone, but… maybe I could just make it faster. Shuffle people towards The End. Accelerate things.
[GEORGIE SHIVERS]
GEORGIE
Would The Eye even let you do that?
ARCHIVIST
It’s like Annabelle said, it doesn’t really do foresight. As long as it was fed, I doubt it would even know until it was too late. And The Web couldn’t touch me once I was in control.
GEORGIE
John, you’re talking about killing the whole world…
ARCHIVIST
You’re the one who wanted to cover every option. We need to admit that ending it quickly might be a kindness.
The truth is, any choice we make is going to lead to an atrocity of one sort or another. At least this way we know the suffering ends.
BASIRA
No. No, I’m not just gonna stand here, and watch you try to justify murdering humanity.
ARCHIVIST
[Angry] How is it different from just letting it happen on its own?
BASIRA
[Forceful] Because it is. It’s not an option. End of discussion.
ARCHIVIST
Basira -
MARTIN
Uh, I just can’t accept it’s really that hopeless. There’s got to be a chance that these other universes will figure something out that we didn’t.
MELANIE
They’ll have as much of a chance as we did. More, maybe. The Fears had a long time to get a foothold in our world.
ARCHIVIST
Assuming time even works the same in different dimensions.
[MELANIE SIGHS]
GEORGIE
We’ve got to hope.
ARCHIVIST
Hope that our actions don’t destroy countless other worlds!
GEORGIE
It’s better than the certainty that they’ll destroy this one!
[TENSE SILENCE]
ARCHIVIST
Sounds like you’ve all decided, then.
BASIRA
Seems that way.
GEORGIE
Shall we vote on it, or something?
ARCHIVIST
[A touch miffed] No need. Seems pretty much unanimous at this point. We take out the Panopticon, and just hope for the best.
MARTIN
Yeah.
ARCHIVIST
Fine. I’m going for a cigarette.
[FOOTSTEPS]
[CLICK]
[CLICK]
[BACKGROUND NOISE OF THE WATCHERS MOVING AND MECHANICAL WHIRRING]
[CLIMBING FOOTSTEPS, AND A LONG EXHALATION]
GEORGIE
You do know there’s an indoor smoking ban right?
ARCHIVIST
They’ll make an exception for me.
[FAINT CHUCKLE FROM GEORGIE]
Besides, I can’t really think down there.
[DRAG ON CIGARETTE]
That’s not true, I can. It’s just… exhausting. Puts me in a foul mood.
It’s better up here, close to The Eye. Thoughts come quicker.
GEORGIE
If it’s any consolation, you seemed pretty on the ball earlier.
ARCHIVIST
It isn’t, really, but… thank you.
GEORGIE
Can I have a cigarette?
[ARCHIVIST SMIRKS BEFORE PASSING ONE OVER]
ARCHIVIST
Hmm. Sure. I thought you quit?
GEORGIE
I did, for my health. But it’s already the apocalypse, so… I’ll need a light too.
ARCHIVIST
Yeah.
[LIGHTER SNICKS OPEN]
[GEORGIE LIGHTS UP]
GEORGIE
I tried to avoid it in the tunnels when we had our, uh… When the others were here.
Nice lighter.
ARCHIVIST
Hmm?
[FAINT STATIC RISES AND FALLS]
You didn’t want to tarnish the image of the prophets?
GEORGIE
Just didn’t think they wanted one of their revered leaders puffing away in the corner.
[THE ARCHIVIST MURMURS AN ASSENT]
Saw a bishop smoking once when I was a kid, full Easter regalia and all. Really weirded me out.
ARCHIVIST
[Soft chuckles] I should probably quit myself, then.
[LIGHT METALLIC SOUND]
GEORGIE
Then you won’t mind if I hang onto this?
ARCHIVIST
[Distracted] Hmm.
[FAINT STATIC RISES AND FALLS]
GEORGIE
I’m sorry. I know you hate what we’re doing.
ARCHIVIST
I hate all the options. I just… It’s all my fault, you know?
GEORGIE
What, because you weren’t able to outsmart the literal embodiment of manipulation and scheming?
ARCHIVIST
Mmm.
GEORGIE
We all make bad choices, John. It’s not your fault some eldritch horror decided yours were going to affect the whole world.
ARCHIVIST
They were still my choices.
GEORGIE
Yeah. And you live with them. Or you don’t. That’s all there is, really.
ARCHIVIST
Hmm.
[SOUNDS OF MOVEMENT FROM BELOW]
GEORGIE
Anyway, looks like your next appointment’s here.
Thanks for the smoke.
[GEORGIE STANDS TO LEAVE]
ARCHIVIST
Georgie…
GEORGIE
Yeah?
ARCHIVIST
I, um…
…
[FAINT FOOTSTEPS CLIMBING THE STAIRS]
I’m glad you and Melanie have each other through all this.
GEORGIE
Thanks.
And I’m glad you’ve got him.
[FOOTSTEPS GET CLEARER]
GEORGIE
He’s all yours.
MARTIN
Thanks.
[GEORGIE’S FOOTSTEPS DESCEND AND FADE]
You alright?
ARCHIVIST
Yeah.
Sorry it got so heated in there.
MARTIN
Don’t be. I’d have been more worried if you were super calm about it.
ARCHIVIST
Yeah.
MARTIN
I’d understand if you hate me right now.
ARCHIVIST
What? No! No, Martin, I love you. I always will. And I know you love me too. I mean… [sighs] that’s it, isn’t it? That’s the real core of it. You want to save me.
MARTIN
I want you to save yourself.
[LONG DRAG OF CIGARETTE]
ARCHIVIST
Sometimes… I imagine if none of this had happened. If we had just… met. Been together, without… all of this.
MARTIN
[Softly] Me, too.
…
But we wouldn’t have, would we? Been together, I mean.
ARCHIVIST
Huh? W-What do you mean?
MARTIN
Well, we had that, didn’t we? Almost a year of just working a normal job together, and you hated me.
ARCHIVIST
I didn’t ‘hate’ you.
MARTIN
No, no, no, no. I listened to those tapes. At one point you explicitly said you’d be fine with me being chopped up by that old jigsaw lady.
ARCHIVIST
Oh god, Angela! Ha! She’s still about, you know? Lording it over a nasty little Flesh domain.
Anyway, I didn’t explicitly say it. I… implied it.
MARTIN
Face it, John, it took almost two years of crisis and trauma to even make us compatible. And that sucks. But here we are.
And I don’t want it to be for nothing. I won’t let it.
ARCHIVIST
That’s very sweet of you, Martin.
Sort of.
Thank you.
MARTIN
Wherever you go, I go. That’s it.
ARCHIVIST
You promised to let me go. If I had to.
MARTIN
And you promised not to go if there was any other choice.
And there is. So that’s the deal.
ARCHIVIST
That’s the deal.
MARTIN
I guess that’s why it really bothers me, you know? I try, but I can’t actually imagine ever making a decision that I knew meant losing you.
And it… It hurts to know you can.
ARCHIVIST
You didn’t damn the world, Martin.
MARTIN
We all -
ARCHIVIST
[Harsh] No! “We all” nothing!
I, I’m the one who caused all of this, that’s just the truth of it! I’m the one whose whole life has been nothing but one long setup to this.
MARTIN
John…
ARCHIVIST
[With sadness] You didn’t speak the words! You didn’t feel them move through you, vomiting out of you like…
…
I did this. It’s my fault. And I don’t want… I can’t let anyone else feel that. That helpless, enormous guilt.
Ever.
[ARCHIVIST SNIFFS AS IF TEARING UP]
MARTIN
Hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, come here, come here.
[FABRIC RUSTLES, WITH SNIFFS FROM THE ARCHIVIST]
We’re going to fix it.
ARCHIVIST
No.
We’re just going to pass it on.
MARTIN
You don’t know that.
[THEY BOTH COMPOSE THEMSELVES]
ARCHIVIST
Come on. The others will be waiting.
[FOOTSTEPS DESCEND]
[MARTIN SIGHS HEAVILY]
[CLICK]
[CLICK]
GEORGIE
I’m not sure. They said they were out - Oh, hey.
[DOOR CREAKS, FOOTSTEPS ENTER]
ARCHIVIST
There you are. I was getting worried.
MELANIE
We were scouting. I was showing Basira where we think the gas mainline is.
MARTIN
And?
BASIRA
Not good. You know those eye things?
ARCHIVIST
The old Archivists?
BASIRA
Yeah. I think they know something’s up. The place is crawling with them. It’s like they’re looking for something.
MELANIE
Or patrolling.
MARTIN
Hmm.
GEORGIE
That’s why the stairs were unguarded?
BASIRA
It looks that way.
MELANIE
Mmm.
ARCHIVIST
So what’s the plan?
MELANIE
I reckon me and Georgie go for the mainline, and hopefully they won’t notice us.
GEORGIE
I’ll need a torch. They might notice that.
BASIRA
I’ll give a diversion; I’ll try and draw them off.
MELANIE
And if they see Georgie’s torch, we just go to Plan B. She becomes another distraction, and I go solo.
GEORGIE
I don’t like the thought of you going on your own.
MELANIE
And I don’t like the thought of you being chased by manky old archivists, but there it is.
MARTIN
Okay. So what are you going to do when you find it?
GEORGIE
We’ve got some old tools. I guess we just mess with it until we smell gas, and then back off, set something burning and leg it. It can’t be that hard to break a valve.
MELANIE
John, you’re sure about this whole gas main thing? It just seems, I don’t know, really mundane.
ARCHIVIST
It’s what Annabelle said, and she wasn’t lying. At least, she didn’t think she was.
BASIRA
Well, it’s a bit late for second-guessing.
MARTIN
How… How big is the explosion going to be?
GEORGIE
Big enough. Honestly, I’m kind of hoping there’s some sort of supernatural reason it will channel up into the tower, otherwise, uh… it’s going to be bad news down here.
MARTIN
Don’t get yourselves hurt.
GEORGIE
Well, we’ll do what we can, but this is it. Whatever it takes, right? If there’s a price, we pay it. No hesitations.
MELANIE
And it’s hardly going to be a picnic for you, either. You’re going up that tower to kill Elias, and if we muck up the timing, you’ll be up there when it blows.
MARTIN
John can’t do it.
ARCHIVIST
What?
MELANIE
Sure he can, just magic-laser-eye zap him or whatever, same as with all the others. Like he did to Helen.
ARCHIVIST
Listen, Melanie -
MELANIE
It’s fine. If we all get out of this, we can talk it through. And if not, well, it doesn’t really matter, does it?
ARCHIVIST
I suppose not.
MARTIN
You’re not listening. I mean, if he kills Jonah, then knowing our luck he’s just going to end up taking his place in the Panopticon, isn’t he?
GEORGIE
[Sighs] Good point.
MARTIN
He can come up with me, but when it actually comes to Jonah…
BASIRA
You’ll have to be the one to do it.
MARTIN
Yeah.
ARCHIVIST
Martin… I don’t -
BASIRA
Have you got this? We can trade if you don’t think you can do it.
MARTIN
No. No, I can do it.
MELANIE
Make sure it hurts.
MARTIN
Oh, I will.
MELANIE
Good enough for me.
BASIRA
Me too.
GEORGIE
Okay. Sounds like we’ve got something like a plan.
[MARTIN’S SOUND OF ASSENT]
BASIRA
Makes a nice change.
[VARIOUS SOUNDS OF ASSENT]
MELANIE
[Brightly] It does, doesn’t it?
Uh… So. When do we actually do it?
GEORGIE
First thing tomorrow. That’ll give us time to prep and rest.
MARTIN
Sounds good to me.
MELANIE
Right.
[GENERAL MOVEMENTS AS THEY MAKE TO LEAVE]
BASIRA
Umm, hey, John? Can you hang on a sec?
ARCHIVIST
Yeah?
BASIRA
I just mean… um…
If we don’t make it out of this… I wanted to say thanks. For coming back for me. [sighs] What I did… Who I was… I - Thanks.
ARCHIVIST
I’m sorry for all of this.
BASIRA
We’ve all got regrets. But we can’t undo what’s done. All we can do is try and do something worthwhile with the time we’ve got left.
[HEAVY SIGH FROM THE ARCHIVIST]
ARCHIVIST
Yeah.
[FOOTSTEPS]
[CLICK]
Five people got together to discuss the fate of the world, the fate of countless worlds.
In the end, it all comes down to what you believe in, and what you're fighting for.
Enh. Jon made the decision to submit to everyone else's opinion. Sigh.
I would have voted for Jon's plan to push everyone towards the ends and end it faster, starve the entities and kill them for good. They're always blaming Jon for everything and I feel like if he survives, they will still blame him for the suffering of the other worlds despite it being a collective (mostly theirs) decision (looking at you Melanie and Basira, the hypocritical queens that I love and hate at the same time).
Jon's plan likely wouldn't even work. based on what we know, it's quite likely the Fears just move onto a new reality when a new one dies out. Either that, or the are reborn in a new reality. We already know that new fears can be born, so at the end of the day Jon's plan to end the world to stop the fears would have probably been for nought. we already know from the cleaner statement at Hill Top Road (who passed through the crack in reality at HTP into our own world from a different one) that the fears exist in other worlds, in some form at least. it would be a pointless sacrifice.
@@awelshperson306 The fears aren't born into new realities, they just proliferated in that one. If they could do it on their own, they would have.
As for the fears in other realities, some will mirror the original fears, not necessarily all of them. It is nonsensical to assume all the mental landscapes are alike. Even human and animal fears changed over time. And of course, they wouldn't necessarily be supernatural. Or the only supernaturals.
Jon's plan would not have done anything to other universes. Thats the point. They would be free or tormented by supernatural whatevers, on their own. And "hurrying things along" could have been as innocent as taking away the immortality and pushing people into less extreme domains.
Their planning was too rushed though. So much of the evil's manipulation was removing information from the Scooby gang so that they could benefit from knowledge of Smirke and Leitner, but not be capable of expanding on it. Or realizing that was even possible. Its cavemen finding a car and deciding its only use was as a radio.
Jon hasn't gotten to make choices until the only ones presented to him were a) torture others, or b) let everyone die. It is some kind of ultimate unfairness that those utter pieces of shits Melanie, Georgie, and Basira are so little touched by the harm they did and plan to do to others.
🥺🥺🥺🥺 bro my fragile little heart
well well well, looks like we are out of episodes here. on acast you say? no no no i only know youtube. looks like its just not over yet, how crazy is that? wowie. if i ignore it, it cant hurt me, right? right?
So much of this episode was so cathartic, and for me the interaction between Martin and Jon especially, I don't know but I guess just that "I'd understand if you hate me right now", "What? No, I love you, I always will. I mean that's the core of it, right?" Also the point where Jon "finally" broke down a little more and the comfort afterwards. Nearly made me tear up as well ngl
Is it obvious my favourite fiction (mini?)-genre is hurt/comfort because of how deep it hits? Anyway
Ooh and before I forget to say, I really like/appreciate the moment when Jon pretty much mourns the idea of Martin and him having a "normal" relationship, since that's just not possible in this world. Because, that hits very close to home. Well, for me a bit more when it comes to my mental health and a bit less when it comes to relationships, but yeah, just that sadness about not having it the "normal" way, or worrying if you'll never be "normal". So when Martin replied to that, I agreed with him and actually felt pretty comforted. So, sorry if it's getting repetitive and long but, another thank you hh
the *existential dread* filling this episode... wow. I would argue that the chances of The Fears existing ONLY in our reality are quite slim. it's like with extraterrestrial life forms, according to statistics it should exist somewhere. but we can't know for sure. and for the podcast as a whole, I think it's only fitting for Jon, the all knowing Archivist, to make a decision based on the absence of knowledge... this show is so damn good I won't be able to watch anything else for a long time
This episode is such an emotional roller-coaster. Everytine hearing Jon and Martin say "I love you" to each other makes me so happy. And thank you Georgie so much for saying that all of it was Jonah Magnus' fault not Jon's. Also I'm reeealy scared to listen to the next and last episode.
This whole show was a build up to a philosophical debate
6:47 Here, it was because of JONAH MAGNUS!!! It's not your fault, Jon!
I'm not READY for the next one wish me luck?
Hi Alex!
18:05 JON JUST CRYING AND MARTIN HOLDING HIM IN HIS ARMS OH MY GOD :''(((
I am not mentally ready for the end.
I am scared
Hi scared :)
@@lyx8039 How'd you like the ending?
@@biancamlf288 I'm currently reading everyone survives/no one dies fanfics leave me alone
@@lyx8039 awwwe :(. I did that!
I love JonMartin's relationship so bad like please.
I actually am glad that Georgie and Jon are talking again.
I cannot be the only one who loves these patreon names I always look forward to the end of the episodes cause their so funny
I don't think ima be mentally ready for episode 200
I've been power loading this show for the past two months after Red from OSP recommended it. It's been an amazingly horrific ride, especially this last season. You really outdid yourself Johnny, and as a horror writer, I'm practically envious of your twisted imagination. It's only the knowledge of a sequel series coming that's keeping the knowledge of being so close to the end from hurting.
Good Lord. Been listening for two weeks, now at the end of the penultimate episode. It's been a ride.
HERE WE GO
im not ready for it to be over but i wanna see all the fan animations so i cant put off listening to these until later... im so scared.
I had gotten used to the 'penultimate episode is the final fight and finale is dealing with that' formula I had braced myself for this episode, and am now even more terrified for the next. To my fellow first time viewers, good luck
aaaaaaaaaaaa im nOT READY TO POTENTIALLY HAVE MY HEART TORN TO SHREDS.
On my second watch through, a year later--
I wonder, if Georgie's "can I have a cigarette?" was intentional..
i don't think im ready for the next episode. i already feel the tears in my eyes
I think a good argument for sending the fear entities out into the multiverse is the possibility of them meeting their counterparts. Remember, we were told that in this world, fear was the emotion that held supernatural powers, and that's mainly why everything is so hopeless. But in a multiverse of infinite possibilities, there's gotta be realities where other emotions gained power, including positive ones. The ideal outcome would be the entities ending up in a world already populated by positive-aligned entities, and they could in turn keep each other in check and achieve some kind of balance
Why do I have a feeling they’re not gonna do *any* of these plans
I haven't finished the episode yet but I just need to put this thought out there. They never brought up whether the people would remember what happened to them. Nearly everyone on Earth has just been traumatized in the worst ways imaginable, and if they don't just get to forget, I don't know if there's any recovering from that even with the fears gone.
Aaaa i can't believe I'm so close to the end
was watching this episode when my father (surprise, surprise I have a dad) offered me a cup of tea.
I said yes :)
Bro I'm so sad I've been putting off finishing this for like weeksss but it was torture 😭
I'm almost close to the last episode 😢
Please, a happy ending for them, PLEASE 🙏
Trying to decide if I listen to Dirt Poor Robins "The Last Goodbye" or if I listen to Arcane's "Goodbye" after next episode... I guess I'll see how I'm feeling. Love the callback to episode one... I'm going to miss this cast of characters. Thanks for giving me a good year of 30minute walks
i keep wondering what i would do jfc i cant choose
im not ready for ep 200 . ☹️☹️
whenever you go, I go :'-J
I can't believe I've made it this far... last episode already... oh... At least we're getting a prequel now, but I'm still going to miss everyone. It was nice spending the last 7-8 months with this podcast on while I did my chores and whatnot, I'll miss Johny Sim's voice too, I consider him the best narrator, his voice is great and very soothing for stories, I hope he doesn't stop voice acting and narrating. Thanks for making this amazing podcast Johny and Rusty Quill, it's like nothing I've seen (or heard) before :)
At first, with Jon's outright hatred for Martin and Martin's people pleasing tendencies? Their initial toxicity? With the way fandom tends to handle toxic relationships, I was worried. Up until season 4 I was baffled as to why people were so invested in their relationship, but then, they changed in ways that made me think they'd be compatible, with a lot of work. Which I'm glad I was right about!
When they actually got together, I was on board, if a bit worried the series would gloss over their toxicity. But I was pleasantly surprised over and over. All of this is to say, hearing Martin talk about how he didn't want to lose Jon after all that it took for them to finally be together almost made me wanna cry. I didn't, but I got close to it.
I’ve been procrastinating listening to MAG 200😭
Basira thanking Jon, telling him they all have regrets and all they can do is move forward, and overall being his friend is...man, i needed that 🥲
One episode left....I can do this
Man, I wonder what would happen if they killed Magnus, blew up the panopticon AND plugged in the spider hole
Interesting idea, assuming that you COULD plug up a hole in reality. Maybe they’d fall back to being just outside our reality the way they were before?
I just realized that Annabelle's instruction could be interpreted to mean "blowing up the Archives" as in...Jon. Because the Archivist is also the Archive.
I DON'T WANT IT TO BE OVERRR 😭
Lighter theft, classic Barker
one more ep...i need a moment to compose myself
I'm not ready!! I'm not ready!! I don't want it to end.... Well I kinda want it to end so they can take a rest but.... Man
“We kill Alias”
_”Johnna”_
“Whatever.”
_”…Magnus…”_
Not sure what will happen to the world once the entities are flushed out. This must have fked like, all life in the world, if not the universe.