Hi! Thanks for watching! Do you agree with these trends? And, what do you think I'm missing? ⌚ TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro 01:00 First Change 01:36 Second Change 02:24 Third Change 03:27 Fourth Change 04:22 Fifth Change 05:30 Sixth Change
Hi Evan. Do you find that ecclesiology, or the meta-analysis of trends in attendance, giving and culture runs counter to the need for genuiness? I'm de-churched and one of the big hang-ups with the institution for me was treating me as a data point on a spreadsheet vs a human soul with unique characteristics.
Michael, that's an interesting thought. So that I can understand better, are you asking if I think providing an analysis like this or something similar is counter to the need or call for genuineness? Without an extensive response, I suppose, it's possible. I'd be curious to hear more of your thoughts. Concerning the second half of your comment, I can certainly understand why you might feel that way, if you were reduced to a statistical data point. God bless.
@evandoylethinks Thanks for getting back. I think the point I'm reaching for is: should church leaders tailor their approach to trends or people? The last church I attended was a 300-ish member congregation. A megachurch set up a campus less than a mile away and the church leaders took it as a sign that they needed to be like that church to avoid losing people. It seemed that they assumed everyone likes big productions. What it did was alienate those of us who valued more simple and contemplative experiences. The megachurch services larger crowds, so looking at pure numbers, the majority will always overshadow the minority. So, does trend analysis tend towards overlooking the margins?
That’s fair. Rather than, “trends,” a more helpful approach may be principles. Principles can often be contextualized regardless of things like size, style, etc. That is a skill of a leader, the ability to consider how a trend or principle may have impact without overly changing their approach, unless one is entirely necessary. Even in that case, it’s best not to overcorrect in isolation or outside of wise council. Simply doing what everyone else is doing or changing because an approach is seemingly working for someone else, without careful consideration of one’s own context or values reveals a lack of awareness. These types of decisions are often driven out of fear or insecurity. Ultimately, I think there is room for multiple types of expressions of churches, however, the different types may share several common principles or trends that are equally valuable, regardless of their approach.
Definitely agree with the fear aspect. I was in music leadership as a volunteer and was told to mimic their style because attendance was down 25%, year over year. I didn't get a sense of prayerful consideration, or at least including more people in a wider discussion. Aside from getting emotional healing via counseling, I've spent a lot of time deconstructing my beliefs, which I would simply call getting back to first principles. I know I'm not alone in this. My problem with belief communities is they seem certain in their perspectives. The phrase "doubts are welcome" sounds cliche and means "we'll get you to think like us." I would much rather see a mindset of "let's try to find truth together." Do you have any advice on how I and others like me try to find a community that makes room for the journey toward truth vs the preprogrammed destination?
You may enjoy some of the resources Terry Walling is creating. Check out the book Unlikely Nomads. It’s an attempt to share postures rather than models for building church community. You may also like the podcast, Reconstructing Pastors.
Hi! Thanks for watching! Do you agree with these trends? And, what do you think I'm missing?
⌚ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
01:00 First Change
01:36 Second Change
02:24 Third Change
03:27 Fourth Change
04:22 Fifth Change
05:30 Sixth Change
Hi Evan. Do you find that ecclesiology, or the meta-analysis of trends in attendance, giving and culture runs counter to the need for genuiness? I'm de-churched and one of the big hang-ups with the institution for me was treating me as a data point on a spreadsheet vs a human soul with unique characteristics.
Michael, that's an interesting thought. So that I can understand better, are you asking if I think providing an analysis like this or something similar is counter to the need or call for genuineness? Without an extensive response, I suppose, it's possible. I'd be curious to hear more of your thoughts. Concerning the second half of your comment, I can certainly understand why you might feel that way, if you were reduced to a statistical data point. God bless.
@evandoylethinks Thanks for getting back. I think the point I'm reaching for is: should church leaders tailor their approach to trends or people? The last church I attended was a 300-ish member congregation. A megachurch set up a campus less than a mile away and the church leaders took it as a sign that they needed to be like that church to avoid losing people. It seemed that they assumed everyone likes big productions. What it did was alienate those of us who valued more simple and contemplative experiences. The megachurch services larger crowds, so looking at pure numbers, the majority will always overshadow the minority. So, does trend analysis tend towards overlooking the margins?
That’s fair. Rather than, “trends,” a more helpful approach may be principles. Principles can often be contextualized regardless of things like size, style, etc. That is a skill of a leader, the ability to consider how a trend or principle may have impact without overly changing their approach, unless one is entirely necessary. Even in that case, it’s best not to overcorrect in isolation or outside of wise council. Simply doing what everyone else is doing or changing because an approach is seemingly working for someone else, without careful consideration of one’s own context or values reveals a lack of awareness. These types of decisions are often driven out of fear or insecurity. Ultimately, I think there is room for multiple types of expressions of churches, however, the different types may share several common principles or trends that are equally valuable, regardless of their approach.
Definitely agree with the fear aspect. I was in music leadership as a volunteer and was told to mimic their style because attendance was down 25%, year over year. I didn't get a sense of prayerful consideration, or at least including more people in a wider discussion.
Aside from getting emotional healing via counseling, I've spent a lot of time deconstructing my beliefs, which I would simply call getting back to first principles. I know I'm not alone in this. My problem with belief communities is they seem certain in their perspectives. The phrase "doubts are welcome" sounds cliche and means "we'll get you to think like us." I would much rather see a mindset of "let's try to find truth together." Do you have any advice on how I and others like me try to find a community that makes room for the journey toward truth vs the preprogrammed destination?
You may enjoy some of the resources Terry Walling is creating. Check out the book Unlikely Nomads. It’s an attempt to share postures rather than models for building church community. You may also like the podcast, Reconstructing Pastors.