I've been shooting Canon for over 40 years (1st Canon was an AE-1 Program) and was looking forward to getting an R5-Mk2. - Dear Canon, I'll never pay a subscription fee for a camera. Implement subscription fees and I'll be moving to another manufacturer. Reading the comments below, it looks like I wont be the only one. This will be bad for consumers and subsequently very bad for your business. Don't do it................
It's optional so i don't see how it is good or bad. I wouldn't pay for it. Same way I didn't pay for their image storage service. They are just testing waters if they do stuff like this. If people don't bite, it goes away. As long as I can capture images without a sub, I'm cool.
If the camera is crippled without the subscription, that will be when I move to Nikon or Sony. I’ve been shooting with Canon straight out of college since the mid ‘80s when the EF mount came out. I’ve already moved to the Fujifilm GFX line for landscape photography but still use Cannon for everything else.
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Simon, we are trying to buy equipment with limited resources. I have been a Canon user for about 20 years. And I haven't had any equipment for 5 months, I'm waiting for the R5 mark II. If they impose the subscription status as you say, I won't think twice and will immediately switch to other brands. There are also brands whose prices are more affordable than Canon.
I just hope this is just one of those ideas the business steam came up with and everyone else in the boardroom say hell no. But if Canon does it, you can expect others to follow. Just look at laptops. When Apple sealed RAM and storage onto the motherboard, it wasn't too long before others started doing it :(
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@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Then I will continue to protest. I will continue my hobby with models that do not support artificial intelligence. with dslr models if necessary. It's nostalgic as well.
As someone who uses both the Canon R3 and Nikon Z9 I prefer the Canon ergonomics to the Nikon and the R3 AF is a bit more sticky than the Z9. With that said, a paid subscription model would likely be two thumbs down at Canon from me as well. I would be fine with a modest fee for major new features, but a monthly subscription just to have an operational camera is a NO from me.
@@JohnSwen-p6b I'm only interested in 8:60 frame video. Canon r5c has it. But it annoys me that there is no matrix stabilizer, and even with a three-axis stabilizer, the picture moves a lot. And the Z9 has it all. Why doesn't Canon have this? Maybe in R5c2 there will be something like this... but when
@@OrdinaryFilmmakeragreed Simon Same for the open mount 😅 We have been vocal and will continue until the mount is also open to FF APS-C move is good but not sufficient
@@Todder-R5 I'm in the same boat as you. I've updated all my lenses and have 7 RF lenses and a few EF hate to change now Took to long to slowly updating everything.
I'm a huge Canon fan, mainly for their ergonomics. The lack of third-party lens support for the RF mount has had me considering switching brands. If they bring in a subscription model for camera features, I'm out.
It seems that Canon didn’t do any market testing of the idea of subscription, if they had bothered to ask me, I would tell them that it is a crazy idea that will not be received well
lol i'm not paying a couple of thousand for a camera if I have to pay a subscription fee to use some features. rather just buy an older model or switch brands
so, after Sony implemented AI assisted AF into multiple camera, Canon is supposedly to release AI assisted AF with monthly fee? That would be actively driving customers to competition... Also it might complicate reselling camera with semi-mandatpry registration, further driving value down.
This is creeping into so many walks of life. When I bought my last BMW 5 Series I specced it the way I wanted apart from one option which I could only get on a subscription service. Needless to say I didn't opt for a subscription. Fast forward 4 years later and they have added more options to the subscription list so when the salesman from the dealer inquired was I ready to upgrade I told him Im switching to another company that doesn't force me into a subscription model. So Canon like Keithdraycott if you go down the subscription model I will be buying my last Canon camera and your never see another cent from me.
In 3 weeks after I found this channel you have become one of my favourite TH-cam related channels and I don’t follow many this religiously updating every day now . Way to go and big thanks for all these videos
In terms of hardware; it will kill the cameras. Never release cameras with known capabilities hidden behind a paywall, we have seen this in other cameras that received huge kick back. If you want subscription services, stick to software outside the camera. Personally I would never buy a camera that only did 90% of what I paid for unless I paid more….No Way….
Let’s remove the political discussion on this example, but I think you can see what happens. Lucasfilm was an innovation company, then it was acquired by Disney a rent seeking company.
BMW used subscription system for heated seats and then withdrew due to customer feedback! I use Davinci Resolve as after buying it I don't pay any more but still get free updates forever (at least until some bean counter tells them to change it for more profit)
Yeah, that was ridiculous what BMW did, they've been up to some shady stuff recently. They got caught and charged with collusion under Europe's cartel laws. DR is a great piece of software. In 2015, DR was still a colour correction package. They had not yet migrated to a full NLE/
I remember the BMW heated seats subscription. I was shocked having owned BMWs many years before that nonsense. I would have never paid for that sub. I would have bought a different car. I Iive in New Jersey and use heated seats all winter.
The Smart forfour used to come with fully folding front seats (the "lounge concept", they called it) - if you paid the extra. If you bought the standard model, your car came with a few extra kilograms of metal fittings that disabled this feature, so you got more for less. Then all you had to do was remove the useless bits of metal and toss them aside.
I will NEVER pay a subscription for a camera and if Canon implemented a subscription…that would be the one thing to get me switch brands! I would probably switch brands even if it didn’t affect the camera I was using just on principle and not wanting to spend more money on specific gear that I couldn’t bring to another brand.
I guess not allowing third party lenses (on their good cameras) was not enough irritation, now the Canon buyers get to pay for every update for the rest of their lives. I guess they see software companies pushing us around and wringing money out of our wallets and they want some too. Quite frankly, I don't need my camera to think for me.
Yep. Just look at Blizzard Entertainment. They took a very successful company and tore the heart out of it for every penny they could get. They've now lost their soul.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I have been thinking about adding Fujifilm to my Canon system. I love the idea of film simulations to their cameras. The new MF Fujifilm 100sii is coming in 2 weeks.
My first reaction ; very bad, i might jump ship. On the other hand.. if there are some really big enhancements like auto star alignment with multiple night sky exposure where you no longer have to buy special software, is it really such a bad thing ?
If they offer capabilities in a software model, that would be one thing, but in hardware is a bit of an issue, but they did make us pay extra for Canon Log 1 in the 5d4
Just looking at the price of Canon gear has made me think they have been greedy recently, adding a subscription model to it just makes it worse . I hope they go ahead with the subscription model as I'm sure the results will show Canon what people think of their greed.
Subscription based business model is exactly why I left Adobe Creative Suite products for similar, I would say better, lifetime license Affinity and BMD DaVinci Resolve products. For a young photographer or videographer who starts at say age 20, the subscription cost of US$ 60 per month over the next 50 years that the user may be active is a whopping US$ 36,000. Then add all those utilities and related programs they want you to subscribe to. And you still have to buy expensive hardware. At least the hardware has a salvage value return if you later want to sell it. Subscription software phooey! buy a house instead.
From my point of view it will be no problem. I am looking for ways to disqualify products from my choices. To me, subscription services are for phone and IP services that carry continued expenses, news papers would be another example. Software on a subscription service disqualifies them instantly. The same for hardware companies that think they will get a monthly squeeze. Canon should think twice or more times about subscription fees. In the past when buying software at the store. The contract is I pay and get the software. Contract completed. Adding additional conditions afterwards are not valid, therefore ignored. If I walk away from a company, I walk away from all of it, even the parent company. A good example is follow the ownership of your favorite beer. There are five or six layers up and numerous 'cousins'. They are all disqualified. So to the companies thinking about playing games with my pocketbook, remember it could affect the parent company and all the co-companies that are tied to the parent company. As for Canon, it looks to me that they are trying to drive customers away. Then someone will buy them up like what happened to the TV networks in the United States or more recently, Red. Good video.
For some services like television this makes sense as new content is generated every month. But I'm not a big fan of this model and have avoided it for software and hardware services to date.
I definitely don't want a monthly subscription model. I want to own a fully functioning camera and that's that. I would, however, pay a small price for future firmware updates of my choice. I would want them to be stand alone so that if I declined one, I could still choose the next one. Thanks for the continued updates, Simon. Have a great weekend!
If Canon is listening, one word I have for subscribing to a monthly or annual fee to use my camera. NEVER. I would consider paying if it was like an option on a car or an option in a home. A 1X charge to turn on some features. That way I can pick and choose what is important to me. But, like I said, a subscription model? NEVER. I do't use Adobe products for that very same reason.
Subscription models stink, pay us thousands for a camera and then pay us more to make it work 100%. I, with others will walk, if Canon thinks this is a good idea, then they are wrong. It doesn’t matter if you are pro or not, money grabbing is never a good look and when you are charging £60+ for an eyecup, you have definitely lost the plot.
I just dropped Adobe because of the subscription. I wasn’t using it monthly so a large percent of the time I was getting nothing for something. Corporations are only interested in making money for its executives and its stock holders. They care nothing about the public. I can’t imagine paying Canon a monthly fee to use my camera. I’ll buy a pad of paper and a pencil and start drawing.
I understand chuck. I've had a few subscriptions go longer than they should. There are lots of alternatives. Since I got Pixelmator I haven't missed Photoshop once.
Simon: if the camera has AI and if Canon introduces a subscription model, then don’t you think that is a wonderful differentiator opportunity for all other manufacturers and editing software firms: AI with NO subscription. Outcome for Canon is that it looks greedy and is forced to reduce or eliminate the subscription fees. Thoughts?
This is fast becoming an industry model to generate stable income. IBM used to do this in the very early days of computing, giving a customer a machine fully loaded with ram and storage, but needed a license key to unlock the hardware capabilities. I don't like it one bit and letting them know it will hurt sales will likely have them avoid this model.
You have the sky falling before you actually known what’s going on. First we don’t know what these cameras will cost. We don’t know what subscriptions will cost or if subscriptions will ever come to fruition.There are many video features many photographers don’t use. If they can remove these features the subscriptions could be a money saver for them. Now you have people wanting to switch companies because of unsubstantiated rumors. Let’s try and be a bit less hyperbolic and see what Canon is really doing before jumping on the panic train.
Just to add my voice to the feedback, I've been holding off buying a camera for over a year anticipating the R5 II coming out. With the high confidence of a May announcement I've gone as far as ordering the backordered 200-800. If Canon goes to a subscription model I'm going to be immediately cancelling my order and getting a Z8. A question/concern I have is: if they take the low road, when are we going to know? I'd really hate to think I'm buying a camera only to discover I've bought a very expensive opportunity to subscribe.
No way! No way am I paying a Subscription just so their camera can take advantage of features already in their camera. It's nothing but a money grab. I'd rather jump ship to Sony then do this, and I am a life long Canon shooter! Only a fool would do this!
This video makes the Nikon Z8 look very good. I've been saying for a couple of months that Canon had better get this right or I'll be buying a Z8. The poor performance of the 200-800 lens has already almost driven me back to Nikon. Subscription only features in the R5 Mark II would certainly do it. Hopefully you are wrong. I'd say you probably are wrong but I wouldn't bet on it.
I hope Canon isn't going to implement a Pay wall for surtain features. People are already invested in body and lenses... Only type of monthly subscription that i would allow is some sort of PC software like Lightroom but with special Canon features.
I stopped using photoshop years ago and now use Pixelmator for most of my photo editing needs along with the Canon software. And is costs a fraction of the price at $49, but often goes on sale to $20 or less. Photoshop is great, but I don't need most of the capabilities and don't care for the high monthly prices.
@@OrdinaryFilmmakeryou Apple guys have the best cheap software, Pixelmator, Affinity, etc. We in Android have some free not so good software or pricier / subscription alternatives like Lightroom (all the Adobe suite) or ON1. I would love Affinity in my Samsung Tablet. I like editing with the S-Pen.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I stopped at the mere suggestion of Adobe going down the revenue path. Not once did I try it. I still use the copy of Photoshop I bought in their pre-greed days, and it's still good enough for my needs. Never will I pay a subscription for software, nor to enable it in crippled hardware.
Sony used to have what they called the 'Play Memories' app. You had to enter your credit card in the camera to purchase certain apps but once you had them, they were yours as long as you had the camera and as long as it worked. I used it on my A7R2.
I am not interested in a Canon camera with a monthly subscription fee, if Canon does this, i will sell all my Canon camera's and lenses, and buy another brand (Sony or Nikon). I don't have a mirrorless Canon yet, i was waiting for more news about the R1 or the R5 MKII, but if i have to pay every month for a camera, than i will rather keep using my 5D MKIII, 1D MK1 and 7D MKII until they fall apart, then i will never buy another Canon camera.
Go ahead, Canon! Please, for the love of God. I beg you. I’ve been dying for a reason to jump ship and go to Sony charging subscription would be that tipping point for me.
An AI subscription model only makes sense if the camera is constantly communicating with an AI server doing user specific analysis and then downloading user specific profiles back down to the camera.
There should never be a subscription for abilities baked into a device. This is how you alienate prospective customers. I can understand paying a one-time fee for a special upgrade, but subscriptions are clear indicators identifying money grubbing companies. I was excited about these new cameras and was truly looking to possibly crossing over to Canon. But this update killed that move from Sony. Sorry, but as a consumer, my values are valid.
another camera expert just said the Canon event on the 15th isn't to announce a camera. Does that mean your sources aren't getting good information? i am perplexed. Thought for sure we would see the R7 Mark II nest week.
Just look at companies like John Deer. They won't let you service your own million dollar tractors. They claim it is for your own safety, but we know it is greed.
If they are looking to add a subscription for this AI, what next? Having to pay to use a high shutter speed or to work with specific lenses, etc. If this is the case, they have made my mind up for me, I will not be buying Canon in future and will be selling my Canon system.
This doesn’t make any sense.🤷🏻♂️ Canon tells retailers to clear the shelves, but they should know by marketing from other retailers history when there’s a subscription there are many consumers that will not pay for a subscription. If this is the case, there may be a bluff.🤔 But if Canon is not bluffing, then I believe this is my last ride with the Canon.
What they probably will do is release the new cameras and then many months later once everyone has made their purchase add an additional firmware download that can only be unlocked once you pay a subscription price or more money. That way it won't require internet connection.
I think the business model for a camera and lens maker it's clear. A "Sony model", open mount, pricier camera bodies, small restrictions for third party lenses, etc. With that business model Sony has been growing steadily. Canon could do the same and with an advantage: cheaper entry level, with the crippled small bodies. Canon lenses would still sell very well, at cheaper price. I mean, nobody offers a 28-70 f2, a 24-105 f2.8, cheap primes with close up and OIS capabilities, etc.
4 minutes in and I still couldn't determine if the subject of this video was Canon's AI features in their new cameras or Canon introducing a subscription service for their software built-in into the camera. On that subject, my answers is NO. I've been using Canon gear for decades but I won't be purchasing anymore of their cameras if I have to pay a subscription fee, I'll just use the ol R5 till it dies.... Unfortunately, when one major seller of cameras start this, all the rest may follow.
The other manufacturers might not follow suit if Canon's customer base jumps ship. They might just realise they are winning Canon's business for NOT going down the revenue path.
@@CrowPal When most businesses see another potential revenue stream they jump at it. Look at how many software companies (Adobe, Microsoft, etc.) are charging subscriptions. In the future you will not own anything, It will all be leased.
@@jimbruton9482 Unless a sufficient number of their customers vote with their feet. There are alternatives to Adobe, Microsoft, etc, and some of them are even free. It boils down to how many people will put up with this nonsense.
The OM SYSTEM OM-1 Mark II has this subject face/eye lock already. Not sure if it was in the predecessor or debuted in the Mark II but I’ve seen it demonstrated so Canon won’t be the first to have this feature. This is another feature that should be included by all manufacturers going forward as it's a very useful capability.
There is not only Olympics in July in Paris but also EURO2024 which is in Germany this time, in June, which is a huge soccer event as well. You'd think Canon would want to showcase its flagship at EURO 2024 but time is running out.....
I don't want an AI that "understands" my photo and processes in the cloud. Imagine the camera notices something illegal and automatically sends the photo, your name and the location to the police. If that is technically possible, it will happen sooner or later. Just think about the "Ring" cameras. They can already be accessed by the police unless you opt out.
Just to be clear. Canon will never have a model where the camera doesn’t work unless you pay a subscription. What we are talking about here is some of the features of the camera only work if you pay a subscription. I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer a “superpower firmware “ for a fee or a subscription. But if they do, they will find people ignore it. Like they did with Canon’s cloud subscription. What will it take for them to realise the camera comes with all the bells and whistles, and then you sell a plugin for photoshop/LR and you make an android/ios app vm on the camera where you can buy apps or subscriptions for software services like social media integrations etc
Hey Simon, I really wouldn’t mind paying a subscription fee as long as I got the camera for free ! 😃 But if I had to pay for the camera and a subscription fee then that would push me to say hello to Nikon and make the switch 😉 lol
Its been bad enough that Canon didn't release the RF mount to 3rd party lens manufacturers up until recently, and even so, its still restricted on lens designs (Don't think photographers haven't noticed this Canon). But I'm afraid that If Canon decide to go down this route with subscriptions, then its goodbye Canon, hello Nikon / Sony. Its as simple as that !!!!! PS Canon, your cameras are good, but not that good !!!!!
There's no way I'd pay for a subscription for a camera. It wouldn't be so bad if it was to add AI features to their DPP software for post processing, since we have a choice to use 3rd party AI tools, but to cripple a camera if you don't subscribe, is beyond the pale.
I dropped my association with Cannon over 15 years ago owing to the company's poor beliefs and selfish behavior. They incorrectly assumed they were the only participants in the market due to their apparent advantage over their competitors. The situation has changed and other manufacturers are now offering autofocus 1.2 glass. It's time for Cannon's leadership to see this and reconsider their strategy of overcharging for services that most other companies provide for free.
The "hardware and/or software as a service" model that the computer industry got started and makes bank on. I don't see how paying a subscription is going to make me a better photographer after 50 years of taking photos without one. Fortunately the competition is out there that will not be doing this, and hundreds of thousands of older bodies that can be used to take stellar photos are on the used market. A lot of us will just move on from Canon if they do this. Or use our old stuff.
I have an issue with subscription but I don’t have an issue paying for camera o/s apps. Camera o/s software is terrible. If Apple or Android designed a camera the o/s would be much better and have an App Store. An example would be ‘magic lantern’ for some Canon cameras.
They must do it. Put the subscription thing in play Canon so we can ignore it. I know you have to go through it. All software companies are going this way. Do it so we can ignore it and then you can rather sell us a camera with a selection of software apps you pay for.
I won't use Light Room for this same reason. Many software packages I already own do what I need. Other than bug fixes, I don't care about new features. If I want more features I'll buy an updated version. Subscription for AI features? Count me out.
These subscription models are really getting out of control! I can understand paying for powerful AI computation from the cloud, such as the enhanced version of ChatGPT or Sora video generation, but if the AI is running locally on a camera, paying extra just seems wrong. Nothing annoys me more than when I connect to my phone to a GoPro Hero 11 or a Mavic Pro 2 and being forced to sign-in to an account and perform a bunch of updates, and meanwhile I'm missing a sunset or other photo! lol
I refuse to pay subscription fees unless the fees are reasonable and deliver real value. No more Adobe, no more iBird, etc. It would be OK if the software actually got better or easier to use for an advanced user--instead of bigger, slower, and more-appealing to a new user. Or if I could stop the subscription and still use the software or re-install an older version.
Not in hardware. If they want to do this, do it in software services where we are able to enhancements that would take us much longer to accomplish through other means. DOn't cripple the hardware just to grab more money. That would be annoying.
If the subscription was just to enable a feature inside the camera already have - then it is very close to paying for a ransom! However, AI training is very, very expensive - could up hundreds or even thousands of ultra expensive GPUs running non-stop for years. If the subscription lets camera periodically download updated and better training data, it is not that unreasonable.
The elephant in the room is the use of AI created media as evidence in criminal prosecutions. AI created imagery not present in the actual environment, and as a defendant in a trial where the burden of proof is on the prosecution, the fear is that the courts would allow AI generated video and photos to place libal on the accused. This is a dangerous tech in this area, and I'm concerned for the future of liberties of people. Video compression algorithms already use predictive technologies to generate pixels to fill in the gaps of slow shutter speeds in night vision mode. We must tread lightly and demand courts only use basic JPEG and RAW media as evidence.
@@CrowPal yes that's true. That's why I stated "basic" JPEG and RAW, which is different than downstream ai versions.Maybe "legacy" JPEG and RAW would have been a better choice of words for better clarification.
I bet the subscription will be very expensive and will focus on functions that the vast majority of people will never use -- a function that movie studies or advertising firms want, but the standard portrait / wedding / video blogger would not need.
This reminds me of BMW wanting to make consumers pay upfront for the hardware to include seat warmers, but then charge a monthly subscription to activate and use it. The subscription model sucks, it’s just a way to increase monthly company revenues AFTER paying the premium to buy a pro camera body.
I would hate to change to another company , but I would seriously have to consider moving to Sony if Canon implements a monthly fee for full functionality
I don't have anything new to add to this thread but do want to add my voice to the overwhelming chorus of users vehemently opposed to subscription. I have been a Canon EOS shooter since 1987 (EOS620) Improved leading edge technology keeps us here not subscriptions. I urge Canon not to bite the hand that feeds them.
This is crazy, to pay a subscription to use some features of the camera, even for AI. Sony tried something similar with no success. If Canon will do that, is simply stupid from them.
I've been shooting Canon for over 40 years (1st Canon was an AE-1 Program) and was looking forward to getting an R5-Mk2. - Dear Canon, I'll never pay a subscription fee for a camera. Implement subscription fees and I'll be moving to another manufacturer. Reading the comments below, it looks like I wont be the only one. This will be bad for consumers and subsequently very bad for your business. Don't do it................
Well said Keith... not a big fan myself.
Same well said 😢
Makes no sense and they’ll soon come to their senses
It's optional so i don't see how it is good or bad. I wouldn't pay for it. Same way I didn't pay for their image storage service. They are just testing waters if they do stuff like this. If people don't bite, it goes away. As long as I can capture images without a sub, I'm cool.
If the camera is crippled without the subscription, that will be when I move to Nikon or Sony. I’ve been shooting with Canon straight out of college since the mid ‘80s when the EF mount came out. I’ve already moved to the Fujifilm GFX line for landscape photography but still use Cannon for everything else.
Simon, we are trying to buy equipment with limited resources. I have been a Canon user for about 20 years. And I haven't had any equipment for 5 months, I'm waiting for the R5 mark II. If they impose the subscription status as you say, I won't think twice and will immediately switch to other brands. There are also brands whose prices are more affordable than Canon.
I just hope this is just one of those ideas the business steam came up with and everyone else in the boardroom say hell no. But if Canon does it, you can expect others to follow. Just look at laptops. When Apple sealed RAM and storage onto the motherboard, it wasn't too long before others started doing it :(
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Then I will continue to protest. I will continue my hobby with models that do not support artificial intelligence. with dslr models if necessary. It's nostalgic as well.
If there isn't something cooler than the z9 this year, I'll buy a Nikon
The Nikon Z9 is very nice, but the Z8 is discounted by $500
As someone who uses both the Canon R3 and Nikon Z9 I prefer the Canon ergonomics to the Nikon and the R3 AF is a bit more sticky than the Z9. With that said, a paid subscription model would likely be two thumbs down at Canon from me as well. I would be fine with a modest fee for major new features, but a monthly subscription just to have an operational camera is a NO from me.
@@JohnSwen-p6b I'm only interested in 8:60 frame video. Canon r5c has it. But it annoys me that there is no matrix stabilizer, and even with a three-axis stabilizer, the picture moves a lot. And the Z9 has it all. Why doesn't Canon have this? Maybe in R5c2 there will be something like this... but when
@@JohnSwen-p6b Blimey what do you do for lenses using both systems?
Drop $5K for a camera just so I can sign up for a subscription….I don’t think so!
If Canon is listening - they would be wise to not go to a 'subscription' model or I'm moving over to Nikon Z8 😂😂
They do pay attention to our videos. Let's hope they don't go down this path.
Likewise I'd do the same.
@@OrdinaryFilmmakeragreed Simon
Same for the open mount 😅
We have been vocal and will continue until the mount is also open to FF
APS-C move is good but not sufficient
I fear if one starts a subscription , the rest will follow !
Immediately
Subscription will push people to other products I think
I'm sure it will
I’ll move on and have over 30k canon in gear
@@Todder-R5 Same here. I will move over if this does occur.
@@Todder-R5 I'm in the same boat as you. I've updated all my lenses and have 7 RF lenses and a few EF hate to change now Took to long to slowly updating everything.
Subscription plan = loss of customers. If this is true I’m taking my name off the R5MII list and I’ll move to a competitor.
I'd be surprised if they did this, but it would force me to second guess any purchase.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker let’s hope Canon reads your comment section! ;)
I started a poll just to help them out with some more free market research ;)
I'm a huge Canon fan, mainly for their ergonomics. The lack of third-party lens support for the RF mount has had me considering switching brands. If they bring in a subscription model for camera features, I'm out.
The lack of third party lens support has not come to an end! Just waiting in sigma and tam to release some decent ones.. won’t be long
Yep, good to see third party lenses now available. Just waiting for full frame third party now, but with 7 lenses due out by Q4, this is a big deal.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker definitely
I don’t do subscription..
For Netflix sure, for my car, for my camera, nope...
No way in hell I’m paying a subscription fee for a 5000 $ camera. They already are price gouging so much
You aren't alone in that view.
It seems that Canon didn’t do any market testing of the idea of subscription, if they had bothered to ask me, I would tell them that it is a crazy idea that will not be received well
lol i'm not paying a couple of thousand for a camera if I have to pay a subscription fee to use some features.
rather just buy an older model or switch brands
Canon rumours says they are considering it, so let's provide them our thoughts on enabling a pay wall after spending $4000...
@@OrdinaryFilmmakerI’d be pissed to have a pay wall with 4K camera! I’d send it back
so, after Sony implemented AI assisted AF into multiple camera, Canon is supposedly to release AI assisted AF with monthly fee? That would be actively driving customers to competition... Also it might complicate reselling camera with semi-mandatpry registration, further driving value down.
If canon charge monthly subscription I'm switching to Sony
Me too
do you think if Canon starts the others will follow Just like the gasoline companies. They all do the same thing and charge the same rates.
This is creeping into so many walks of life. When I bought my last BMW 5 Series I specced it the way I wanted apart from one option which I could only get on a subscription service. Needless to say I didn't opt for a subscription. Fast forward 4 years later and they have added more options to the subscription list so when the salesman from the dealer inquired was I ready to upgrade I told him Im switching to another company that doesn't force me into a subscription model.
So Canon like Keithdraycott if you go down the subscription model I will be buying my last Canon camera and your never see another cent from me.
Moving from canon as soon this gets official.
I would not get upset over it yet. Let's see if it happens yet.
In 3 weeks after I found this channel you have become one of my favourite TH-cam related channels and I don’t follow many this religiously updating every day now . Way to go and big thanks for all these videos
Wow, thank you. I appreciate the high praise.
I agree.. but I have no nails left as he build so much suspense 😂
@@jetwash1546 haha we Will be to exhausted to watch canons launch when it finally comes 😃
@@Herkulez1981 🤣🤣🤣
In terms of hardware; it will kill the cameras. Never release cameras with known capabilities hidden behind a paywall, we have seen this in other cameras that received huge kick back. If you want subscription services, stick to software outside the camera. Personally I would never buy a camera that only did 90% of what I paid for unless I paid more….No Way….
Yeah, it would give me pause and make me consider switching, or sticking with what I had.
There are companies that create innovative products and there are companies that rent seek. There are never the same company for long.
Let’s remove the political discussion on this example, but I think you can see what happens. Lucasfilm was an innovation company, then it was acquired by Disney a rent seeking company.
BMW used subscription system for heated seats and then withdrew due to customer feedback!
I use Davinci Resolve as after buying it I don't pay any more but still get free updates forever (at least until some bean counter tells them to change it for more profit)
Yeah, that was ridiculous what BMW did, they've been up to some shady stuff recently. They got caught and charged with collusion under Europe's cartel laws. DR is a great piece of software. In 2015, DR was still a colour correction package. They had not yet migrated to a full NLE/
I remember the BMW heated seats subscription. I was shocked having owned BMWs many years before that nonsense. I would have never paid for that sub. I would have bought a different car. I Iive in New Jersey and use heated seats all winter.
You know the business team is getting greedy when these packages start coming out.
The Smart forfour used to come with fully folding front seats (the "lounge concept", they called it) - if you paid the extra. If you bought the standard model, your car came with a few extra kilograms of metal fittings that disabled this feature, so you got more for less. Then all you had to do was remove the useless bits of metal and toss them aside.
I will NEVER pay a subscription for a camera and if Canon implemented a subscription…that would be the one thing to get me switch brands! I would probably switch brands even if it didn’t affect the camera I was using just on principle and not wanting to spend more money on specific gear that I couldn’t bring to another brand.
I guess not allowing third party lenses (on their good cameras) was not enough irritation, now the Canon buyers get to pay for every update for the rest of their lives. I guess they see software companies pushing us around and wringing money out of our wallets and they want some too. Quite frankly, I don't need my camera to think for me.
I said they are considering it, not that they have made a decision to do this yet.
A subscription service from Canon would make me a Fujifilm customer.
I HAVE YET TO SEE A COMMENT IN FAVOUR OF THIS...
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I dabble a bit in economics and the stock market. Rent seeking companies stop innovating
Yep. Just look at Blizzard Entertainment. They took a very successful company and tore the heart out of it for every penny they could get. They've now lost their soul.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I have been thinking about adding Fujifilm to my Canon system. I love the idea of film simulations to their cameras. The new MF Fujifilm 100sii is coming in 2 weeks.
My first reaction ; very bad, i might jump ship.
On the other hand.. if there are some really big enhancements like auto star alignment with multiple night sky exposure where you no longer have to buy special software, is it really such a bad thing ?
If they offer capabilities in a software model, that would be one thing, but in hardware is a bit of an issue, but they did make us pay extra for Canon Log 1 in the 5d4
Canon going nuts.... looks like time to move on
Didn't say this was happening, just that they are considering it...
Just looking at the price of Canon gear has made me think they have been greedy recently, adding a subscription model to it just makes it worse . I hope they go ahead with the subscription model as I'm sure the results will show Canon what people think of their greed.
It's a common ay companies are increasing their revenue at the expense of their customers.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker and soon they will have NO customers.
Subscription based business model is exactly why I left Adobe Creative Suite products for similar, I would say better, lifetime license Affinity and BMD DaVinci Resolve products. For a young photographer or videographer who starts at say age 20, the subscription cost of US$ 60 per month over the next 50 years that the user may be active is a whopping US$ 36,000. Then add all those utilities and related programs they want you to subscribe to. And you still have to buy expensive hardware. At least the hardware has a salvage value return if you later want to sell it. Subscription software phooey! buy a house instead.
From my point of view it will be no problem. I am looking for ways to disqualify products from my choices. To me, subscription services are for phone and IP services that carry continued expenses, news papers would be another example. Software on a subscription service disqualifies them instantly. The same for hardware companies that think they will get a monthly squeeze. Canon should think twice or more times about subscription fees. In the past when buying software at the store. The contract is I pay and get the software. Contract completed. Adding additional conditions afterwards are not valid, therefore ignored. If I walk away from a company, I walk away from all of it, even the parent company. A good example is follow the ownership of your favorite beer. There are five or six layers up and numerous 'cousins'. They are all disqualified. So to the companies thinking about playing games with my pocketbook, remember it could affect the parent company and all the co-companies that are tied to the parent company. As for Canon, it looks to me that they are trying to drive customers away. Then someone will buy them up like what happened to the TV networks in the United States or more recently, Red. Good video.
For some services like television this makes sense as new content is generated every month. But I'm not a big fan of this model and have avoided it for software and hardware services to date.
I definitely don't want a monthly subscription model. I want to own a fully functioning camera and that's that. I would, however, pay a small price for future firmware updates of my choice. I would want them to be stand alone so that if I declined one, I could still choose the next one.
Thanks for the continued updates, Simon. Have a great weekend!
I pay full price, I own it... none of this partial control over my assets.
If Canon is listening, one word I have for subscribing to a monthly or annual fee to use my camera. NEVER. I would consider paying if it was like an option on a car or an option in a home. A 1X charge to turn on some features. That way I can pick and choose what is important to me. But, like I said, a subscription model? NEVER. I do't use Adobe products for that very same reason.
informative context thanks Simon.
My pleasure!
Subscription models stink, pay us thousands for a camera and then pay us more to make it work 100%. I, with others will walk, if Canon thinks this is a good idea, then they are wrong. It doesn’t matter if you are pro or not, money grabbing is never a good look and when you are charging £60+ for an eyecup, you have definitely lost the plot.
Thanks for the feedback, its pretty clear that we don't want this type of model.
I just dropped Adobe because of the subscription. I wasn’t using it monthly so a large percent of the time I was getting nothing for something. Corporations are only interested in making money for its executives and its stock holders. They care nothing about the public. I can’t imagine paying Canon a monthly fee to use my camera. I’ll buy a pad of paper and a pencil and start drawing.
I understand chuck. I've had a few subscriptions go longer than they should. There are lots of alternatives. Since I got Pixelmator I haven't missed Photoshop once.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I’m not familiar with that one, but I will check it out. Thanks
Simon: if the camera has AI and if Canon introduces a subscription model, then don’t you think that is a wonderful differentiator opportunity for all other manufacturers and editing software firms: AI with NO subscription. Outcome for Canon is that it looks greedy and is forced to reduce or eliminate the subscription fees. Thoughts?
This is fast becoming an industry model to generate stable income. IBM used to do this in the very early days of computing, giving a customer a machine fully loaded with ram and storage, but needed a license key to unlock the hardware capabilities. I don't like it one bit and letting them know it will hurt sales will likely have them avoid this model.
You have the sky falling before you actually known what’s going on. First we don’t know what these cameras will cost. We don’t know what subscriptions will cost or if subscriptions will ever come to fruition.There are many video features many photographers don’t use. If they can remove these features the subscriptions could be a money saver for them. Now you have people wanting to switch companies because of unsubstantiated rumors. Let’s try and be a bit less hyperbolic and see what Canon is really doing before jumping on the panic train.
🤨 I HATE SUBSCRIPTION MODEL products. I really hope Canon doesn't make use of subscriptions 😢. I quit using Photoshop years ago when they went to it.
Just about the same time I abandoned it too.
LETS GOOOOO !!!!!! LOVED TODAYS INTRO !
Just to add my voice to the feedback, I've been holding off buying a camera for over a year anticipating the R5 II coming out. With the high confidence of a May announcement I've gone as far as ordering the backordered 200-800. If Canon goes to a subscription model I'm going to be immediately cancelling my order and getting a Z8. A question/concern I have is: if they take the low road, when are we going to know? I'd really hate to think I'm buying a camera only to discover I've bought a very expensive opportunity to subscribe.
And if you got the Z8, I'm sure you'd be very happy with it. It's a great camera.
200-800 is a bit soft compared to the 100-500; don't get too excited
Subscription plan or pain?
That's a matter of opinion. I avoid subscription software models. I hope I can continue to do this...
No way! No way am I paying a Subscription just so their camera can take advantage of features already in their camera.
It's nothing but a money grab. I'd rather jump ship to Sony then do this, and I am a life long Canon shooter!
Only a fool would do this!
This video makes the Nikon Z8 look very good. I've been saying for a couple of months that Canon had better get this right or I'll be buying a Z8. The poor performance of the 200-800 lens has already almost driven me back to Nikon. Subscription only features in the R5 Mark II would certainly do it. Hopefully you are wrong. I'd say you probably are wrong but I wouldn't bet on it.
I hope Canon isn't going to implement a Pay wall for surtain features.
People are already invested in body and lenses...
Only type of monthly subscription that i would allow is some sort of PC software like Lightroom but with special Canon features.
I stopped using photoshop years ago and now use Pixelmator for most of my photo editing needs along with the Canon software. And is costs a fraction of the price at $49, but often goes on sale to $20 or less. Photoshop is great, but I don't need most of the capabilities and don't care for the high monthly prices.
@@OrdinaryFilmmakeryou Apple guys have the best cheap software, Pixelmator, Affinity, etc. We in Android have some free not so good software or pricier / subscription alternatives like Lightroom (all the Adobe suite) or ON1. I would love Affinity in my Samsung Tablet. I like editing with the S-Pen.
I will not pay a subscription for software (or camera). I use Affinity Photo. I does everything I need.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I stopped at the mere suggestion of Adobe going down the revenue path. Not once did I try it. I still use the copy of Photoshop I bought in their pre-greed days, and it's still good enough for my needs. Never will I pay a subscription for software, nor to enable it in crippled hardware.
Sony used to have what they called the 'Play Memories' app. You had to enter your credit card in the camera to purchase certain apps but once you had them, they were yours as long as you had the camera and as long as it worked. I used it on my A7R2.
Good thing i moved to Fuji
AI is in every camera, the only question, will Canon and Fuji follow the subscription model for their hardware.
I am not interested in a Canon camera with a monthly subscription fee, if Canon does this, i will sell all my Canon camera's and lenses, and buy another brand (Sony or Nikon). I don't have a mirrorless Canon yet, i was waiting for more news about the R1 or the R5 MKII, but if i have to pay every month for a camera, than i will rather keep using my 5D MKIII, 1D MK1 and 7D MKII until they fall apart, then i will never buy another Canon camera.
Go ahead, Canon! Please, for the love of God. I beg you. I’ve been dying for a reason to jump ship and go to Sony charging subscription would be that tipping point for me.
What if the subscription is a great thing and bumps up the features and extends the camera useful life? What if the net effect is a better poduct?
An AI subscription model only makes sense if the camera is constantly communicating with an AI server doing user specific analysis and then downloading user specific profiles back down to the camera.
This might be a challenge for a lot of remote in the field work.
100% agree. I hate subscription models. I would not think twice about switching to another camera brand if Canon implemented a subscription model.
There should never be a subscription for abilities baked into a device. This is how you alienate prospective customers. I can understand paying a one-time fee for a special upgrade, but subscriptions are clear indicators identifying money grubbing companies. I was excited about these new cameras and was truly looking to possibly crossing over to Canon. But this update killed that move from Sony. Sorry, but as a consumer, my values are valid.
The AF we have today is so amazing, I don’t know how much better it can get with “AI.”
A subscription equals no purchass of new Canon camera.
This appears to be a common feeling.
another camera expert just said the Canon event on the 15th isn't to announce a camera. Does that mean your sources aren't getting good information? i am perplexed. Thought for sure we would see the R7 Mark II nest week.
I already have issues with lens flexibility and a closed mount payed subsciption wil make me move away from canon.
I'd love to see a case study of a company completely self distracting due to selfishness. Do it Canon, let's see if it works out.
Just look at companies like John Deer. They won't let you service your own million dollar tractors. They claim it is for your own safety, but we know it is greed.
If they are looking to add a subscription for this AI, what next? Having to pay to use a high shutter speed or to work with specific lenses, etc. If this is the case, they have made my mind up for me, I will not be buying Canon in future and will be selling my Canon system.
This doesn’t make any sense.🤷🏻♂️ Canon tells retailers to clear the shelves, but they should know by marketing from other retailers history when there’s a subscription there are many consumers that will not pay for a subscription. If this is the case, there may be a bluff.🤔 But if Canon is not bluffing, then I believe this is my last ride with the Canon.
Cheers Simon
Cheers mate
What they probably will do is release the new cameras and then many months later once everyone has made their purchase add an additional firmware download that can only be unlocked once you pay a subscription price or more money. That way it won't require internet connection.
This would make the current R5 more valuable. I’m not change to any new camera needing a subscription.
I think the business model for a camera and lens maker it's clear. A "Sony model", open mount, pricier camera bodies, small restrictions for third party lenses, etc. With that business model Sony has been growing steadily. Canon could do the same and with an advantage: cheaper entry level, with the crippled small bodies. Canon lenses would still sell very well, at cheaper price. I mean, nobody offers a 28-70 f2, a 24-105 f2.8, cheap primes with close up and OIS capabilities, etc.
4 minutes in and I still couldn't determine if the subject of this video was Canon's AI features in their new cameras or Canon introducing a subscription service for their software built-in into the camera. On that subject, my answers is NO. I've been using Canon gear for decades but I won't be purchasing anymore of their cameras if I have to pay a subscription fee, I'll just use the ol R5 till it dies.... Unfortunately, when one major seller of cameras start this, all the rest may follow.
The subscription is the key point, but that only matters in relation to the capabilities being built around AI...
The other manufacturers might not follow suit if Canon's customer base jumps ship. They might just realise they are winning Canon's business for NOT going down the revenue path.
@@CrowPal When most businesses see another potential revenue stream they jump at it. Look at how many software companies (Adobe, Microsoft, etc.) are charging subscriptions. In the future you will not own anything, It will all be leased.
@@jimbruton9482 Unless a sufficient number of their customers vote with their feet. There are alternatives to Adobe, Microsoft, etc, and some of them are even free.
It boils down to how many people will put up with this nonsense.
The OM SYSTEM OM-1 Mark II has this subject face/eye lock already. Not sure if it was in the predecessor or debuted in the Mark II but I’ve seen it demonstrated so Canon won’t be the first to have this feature. This is another feature that should be included by all manufacturers going forward as it's a very useful capability.
If Canon implement this, I will write them my disdain…every week. And I will have MANY words
Two thumbs down for a subscription model just to use your camera. 👎🏼 👎🏼
Why does the R1 cost more than the R5 🤔 What’s so special about it. Is it like a R3, and R6 in one. I’ll take a R5C ii over that ☺️
Think use cases
Looks like I might be buying a R5 instead. Yikes no thank you. Subscription services are a no.
No way Canon. It would be a huge mistake if it’s true
There is not only Olympics in July in Paris but also EURO2024 which is in Germany this time, in June, which is a huge soccer event as well. You'd think Canon would want to showcase its flagship at EURO 2024 but time is running out.....
Clean out the inventory levels? That could mean just one thing.... Canon is getting into groceries!
LOL - I don't think I could afford their groceries... ;)
I don't want an AI that "understands" my photo and processes in the cloud. Imagine the camera notices something illegal and automatically sends the photo, your name and the location to the police. If that is technically possible, it will happen sooner or later. Just think about the "Ring" cameras. They can already be accessed by the police unless you opt out.
Just to be clear. Canon will never have a model where the camera doesn’t work unless you pay a subscription. What we are talking about here is some of the features of the camera only work if you pay a subscription. I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer a “superpower firmware “ for a fee or a subscription. But if they do, they will find people ignore it. Like they did with Canon’s cloud subscription. What will it take for them to realise the camera comes with all the bells and whistles, and then you sell a plugin for photoshop/LR and you make an android/ios app vm on the camera where you can buy apps or subscriptions for software services like social media integrations etc
I'm sure if they do this others will follow suit fairly quickly. No, if I buy a camera I buy the camera. I expect access to all the features.
Hey Simon, I really wouldn’t mind paying a subscription fee as long as I got the camera for free ! 😃 But if I had to pay for the camera and a subscription fee then that would push me to say hello to Nikon and make the switch 😉 lol
LOL - I think you are referring to leasing James ;)
Its been bad enough that Canon didn't release the RF mount to 3rd party lens manufacturers up until recently, and even so, its still restricted on lens designs (Don't think photographers haven't noticed this Canon). But I'm afraid that If Canon decide to go down this route with subscriptions, then its goodbye Canon, hello Nikon / Sony. Its as simple as that !!!!! PS Canon, your cameras are good, but not that good !!!!!
There's no way I'd pay for a subscription for a camera.
It wouldn't be so bad if it was to add AI features to their DPP software for post processing, since we have a choice to use 3rd party AI tools, but to cripple a camera if you don't subscribe, is beyond the pale.
I dropped my association with Cannon over 15 years ago owing to the company's poor beliefs and selfish behavior. They incorrectly assumed they were the only participants in the market due to their apparent advantage over their competitors. The situation has changed and other manufacturers are now offering autofocus 1.2 glass. It's time for Cannon's leadership to see this and reconsider their strategy of overcharging for services that most other companies provide for free.
I was waiting for this camera, but now i'm going sony... bye bye canon, was amazing 17 years of good pics
The "hardware and/or software as a service" model that the computer industry got started and makes bank on. I don't see how paying a subscription is going to make me a better photographer after 50 years of taking photos without one. Fortunately the competition is out there that will not be doing this, and hundreds of thousands of older bodies that can be used to take stellar photos are on the used market. A lot of us will just move on from Canon if they do this. Or use our old stuff.
I have an issue with subscription but I don’t have an issue paying for camera o/s apps. Camera o/s software is terrible. If Apple or Android designed a camera the o/s would be much better and have an App Store. An example would be ‘magic lantern’ for some Canon cameras.
They must do it. Put the subscription thing in play Canon so we can ignore it. I know you have to go through it. All software companies are going this way. Do it so we can ignore it and then you can rather sell us a camera with a selection of software apps you pay for.
All software companies? Are you sure. We also still have open source as an option. I used to use GIMP...
I could see this happening. That's how everyone makes even more money. With subscriptions.
This and the move against the right to repair irk me.
This subscription thing must be Apple.
It started long before Canon was a company, but it has become very popular in the last ten years.
Team Canon, I hope you are reading this… don’t do it
Canon will go broke if they try that subscription model, because other manufacturers will do the same... without the subscription.
I won't use Light Room for this same reason. Many software packages I already own do what I need. Other than bug fixes, I don't care about new features. If I want more features I'll buy an updated version. Subscription for AI features? Count me out.
These subscription models are really getting out of control! I can understand paying for powerful AI computation from the cloud, such as the enhanced version of ChatGPT or Sora video generation, but if the AI is running locally on a camera, paying extra just seems wrong. Nothing annoys me more than when I connect to my phone to a GoPro Hero 11 or a Mavic Pro 2 and being forced to sign-in to an account and perform a bunch of updates, and meanwhile I'm missing a sunset or other photo! lol
Subscription = tax deduction (at least for pro's). So this tells everyone " if you are not a pro, leave us alone"!!!
Good point.
I refuse to pay subscription fees unless the fees are reasonable and deliver real value. No more Adobe, no more iBird, etc. It would be OK if the software actually got better or easier to use for an advanced user--instead of bigger, slower, and more-appealing to a new user. Or if I could stop the subscription and still use the software or re-install an older version.
Not in hardware. If they want to do this, do it in software services where we are able to enhancements that would take us much longer to accomplish through other means. DOn't cripple the hardware just to grab more money. That would be annoying.
If the canon subscription model becomes reality, then I am no longer a Canon shooter.
If the subscription was just to enable a feature inside the camera already have - then it is very close to paying for a ransom! However, AI training is very, very expensive - could up hundreds or even thousands of ultra expensive GPUs running non-stop for years. If the subscription lets camera periodically download updated and better training data, it is not that unreasonable.
The elephant in the room is the use of AI created media as evidence in criminal prosecutions. AI created imagery not present in the actual environment, and as a defendant in a trial where the burden of proof is on the prosecution, the fear is that the courts would allow AI generated video and photos to place libal on the accused.
This is a dangerous tech in this area, and I'm concerned for the future of liberties of people.
Video compression algorithms already use predictive technologies to generate pixels to fill in the gaps of slow shutter speeds in night vision mode. We must tread lightly and demand courts only use basic JPEG and RAW media as evidence.
JPEG and RAW are just recording formats that lie downstream of anything that might be done by AI upstream.
@@CrowPal yes that's true. That's why I stated "basic" JPEG and RAW, which is different than downstream ai versions.Maybe "legacy" JPEG and RAW would have been a better choice of words for better clarification.
I bet the subscription will be very expensive and will focus on functions that the vast majority of people will never use -- a function that movie studies or advertising firms want, but the standard portrait / wedding / video blogger would not need.
This reminds me of BMW wanting to make consumers pay upfront for the hardware to include seat warmers, but then charge a monthly subscription to activate and use it. The subscription model sucks, it’s just a way to increase monthly company revenues AFTER paying the premium to buy a pro camera body.
I would hate to change to another company , but I would seriously have to consider moving to Sony if Canon implements a monthly fee for full functionality
I don't have anything new to add to this thread but do want to add my voice to the overwhelming chorus of users vehemently opposed to subscription. I have been a Canon EOS shooter since 1987 (EOS620) Improved leading edge technology keeps us here not subscriptions. I urge Canon not to bite the hand that feeds them.
Nope. Not for me canon.
Bye bye Canon if they make such stupid move to subscription model.
This is crazy, to pay a subscription to use some features of the camera, even for AI. Sony tried something similar with no success. If Canon will do that, is simply stupid from them.
so a rumor site saying it it must be true