Farook is an Arabic masculine name that means the one who distinguishes between truth and falsehood, the separator, the one who differentiates between matters. Everything that differentiates between two things is Farook. It is one of the names of the sword, and it is the nickname of Omar Ibn Al-Khattab because he was a just caliph, who distinguished between truth and falsehood. It is in Syriac, meaning the chosen one
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007): "Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error." Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
I am viewing your interviews with great interest. I find them very interesting. It was very rare to find any Western academic discussing different aspects of Islam until recently. Thank you for your efforts to bring Islam on the global stage for discussions. Judaism, Christianity and Islam, after all, are all about one and only God. So, apart from various arguments and differences of opinion, I find it very interesting.
Pure high-level scholarship. And a very worthy successor to Patricia Crone who was the first to designate Umar as the "redeemer", i.e. a messianic figure.
@@DusTman761 We know historical evidence about Umar a lot. He was one of the close companions of Prophet Muhammad and a Caliph but nothing more than that. Jesus is the Messiah to the Children of Israel and who would also come at the end of time.
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
@@inquisitivemind007a Messiah can be a non Jew, The Messiah is exclusively Jewish. There is a difference. To the other guy, there’s almost no information on who or what Umar was until the 8th century, so the information we have (even Islamic information) is clouded by what those who came after him wanted us to believe, not necessarily what’s true. I mean historically it’s not even known if a group of people called Muslims existed until around the rule of Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan where we see a deviation away from other groups and then later on the 8th century where we have writings detailing Muslims as a distinct group. Before then we see coins of mu’awiyah that feature a cross on the reverse side of the coinage issued by him. Very much suggesting there isn’t a clear differentiation between early “Muslims” and Christians.
59:00 It is referring to the conquest of some place around the Sinai. So as per terms of surrender people could either convert to Islam or give some form of compensation. This has been the universal rule that every conquered people are allowed to convert and become citizens of the Islamic State, where they are directly subjects. Or they could give some form of monetary compensation or leave the lands altogether.
@Shashank Tripathi The Muslims believe in the religion of Abraham and Qaba was built by him. Try to comprehend, we are not asked to worship the Qaba or Aqsa we worship the God of Abraham in the direction of Qaba for unity( rich,poor together in one direction)
And we are told in the holy Qur'an to tell you the Christians that we believe the religion of Abraham, Whatever he believed we believe in it. God new you wouldn't thin'k pass son of God,trinity concept
Gotta love hoyland, he lays out his reasoning and is generally non committal to any one historical view. Awesome scholar. I've carefully considered the idea the caliphs were building a third temple, but I just don't see it. For example the praise heaped on Cyrus the Great for allowing the Jews to return home and construct the second temple is massive. One would imagine a third temple would be equally praised, if not indeed more so, as substantially more time has elapsed at this point than the 70 years spent in babylon, You would imagine Umar would be a national hero to this day. At very least we would expect the Jewish polemic of Umar built the 3rd temple and them evil later caliphs disfigured the piety of Umar. In these sources we see expectations then silence on the subject, this tells me it's just that, expectations but nothing manifest. The key to this I feel is the role of the caliph in the early rashidun, clearly he is a leader, but from where his authority originates, why etc is very difficult to understand, perhaps even impossible with any degree of certainty. Under them conditions I think hoyland is correct to not offer much speculation, instead Parsing out what we can say to offer up probabilities.
Their hearts were full of hate and arrogance, which is likely why they have no gratefulness towards the Muslims even after the Muslims saved them from Christians many times. Even during the time of the Prophet, they testified that he was indeed a Messenger, yet they still vowed to oppose him only because he was an Arab and not a Jew.
Excellent point!. I don’t appreciate the title given by the host and his whole interviewer’s style. He almost keeps putting words into Hoylland’s mouth. You have to listen very carefully to actually understand that he is not really claiming with a strong conviction what the host is insinuating (the whole interview style is awful) - he insinuates something and then he he keeps thanking him and than keeps asking him the same thing like he is trying to get him to agree to his point of view. The host talks too much with an agenda. I find that dishonest. I know he is trying to gain patrons and subscribers. But don’t be so relentless. Like Dr. Sean Anthony says - The problem with revisionism is that it creates more questions than it answers. Not that islamic traditional accounts shouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt. And Hoylland is honest, he is just raising questions but is not necessarily committed to any viewpoint. When he does NOT find much proof for something he says so. I think he learned well from late teacher’s mistakes (Patricia Crone ‘s mistakes in her early career). But I think this leaves him vulnerable to misuse by people who have religious polemical and political agendas like in this case, where people partially quote him, and turn his questions into definitive claims. He is really just raising questions and making definitive claims,
While Umar allowed Jews to return to Jerusalem, it doesn't mean he was actually nice to them overall. After all, he was the one who expelled them from Arabia and tried to do the same in Egypt. Basically, this idea of Umar the Messiah, even if it's true, was probably held specifically only by Levantine Jews who weren't aware yet of the fates of their kin elsewhere in the Islamic Empire. Once they realized what was really going on, they would have changed their minds damn fast. Cyrus is a different case as he literally reestablished the Davidic Kingdom (for a short while at least).
@@mostarac7297 I like the host Mr Lambert, I think he is honest in his approach but his unfamiliarity with this subject does show, for instance the majority of shows on islam are hinting at this idea regarding apocalyptic Jewish messianism, it's relation to Islam etc. It gets an audience to take the most extreme revisions from credible scholarship but this can cause more harm than good for people's understanding of what's more likely. it's like the Christian who now rejects faith, then immediately starts reading the most sensation Christ myth stuff to make themselves comfortable with there apostasy 🤣. It does shows signs of catering to the emotive. I think mythvision would do better to start at the beginning, closely examine each source and start to form some opinions before doing too much speculation. In the opinion of most scholars shoemaker is a little speculative, even he would say that, it's quite far off from mainstream the line of questioning.
I agree. You are much kinder to Lambert than me, though! Sometimes I just can’t have any patience for him. He is definitely little to sensational for my taste, which can come across as dishonest sometimes…
Watching these guys is amusing as they often provide great entertainment for a lower intellectual audience. Their subtle facial expressions when they mock others can reveal their intellectual capacities. hahahah classic
There are many manuscripts that document early Islam with various degree of accordance and emphasis. It does make the topic quite interesting authentic history!
Messiah is isa pbuh the new Greek name Jesus umar AS is one of the most important person in Islam history, who created child benefit, pension funds and more charities to support equality for all people
@@elimelek5569 ''They have taken their rabbis and monks as well as the Messiah, son of Mary, as lords besides Allah, even though they were commanded to worship none but One God. There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him. Glorified is He above what they associate ˹with Him˺!'' Surah At-Tawbah 9:31 what were you smoking when you quoted this verse? I was excited aswell .. yikes.
@@manofwar2354 impossible as Mecca was never known till the 8th century as there no archaeology until the eighth century and there are no writings of Mecca from anywhere until the late eighth century so prof me wrong on archaeology writings of that period proving Mecca was known by anyone.
Forget about talking and deconstructing narratives on both sides which one may seek to look forward to for clarification from scholarly work. But again these are historical events so it has a historical bearing to it. So even if you are looking at the whole episode from a historical perspective there are chains of historical figures and events which dates back much earlier and there are clear chain and scholarly work on both sides. When one doesnt know about the past and ancient history of the place I would suggest they do their homework well before jumping into a discussion with a scholar to dissect history with biased and half baked ideas. This guy doesn't even have clue about the past and ancient history of Arabia. Like who were the settlers thousands of years before Nabateans what did they worship what connection or influence they had how they were different to the contemporary beliefs during that period what connections they had with Egypt, What is the connection of Israelites with Arab and influence of various beliefs during that period , what influence did the Babylonian, Akkadian, Zorastaranian dieties, Egyptian pagan Osiris had on them and on different Jewish sects ( earlier and later) what led to fabricated holy scripture, what role did the pagan, non jew Roman philosopher of egypt had in letting Jews tweak their original Gods message in their scriptures which Joseph pbuh and Moses pbuh preached ,who was Philo what influence did the ancient pagan Greek philosophers had on him what role did the Egyptian Jewish philosopher Philo played with his pagan leanings in distorting Jesus pbuh message and getting the Paulines Christology take into effect later on around 367BC unanimously with the aid of greek and roman philosophers- theologian like Ireneaus, Justin to condition spin doctors & opportunist like Esubeus later to convince Constantine, to pass on the Nicene Creed, which is Pauline bible and Paul's christology. Why was it necessary ? Was that more for dominance and kingship or for faith, if it was for faith then how, many unethical & violent verse were included and fabricated in Bible which Jesus pbuh didn't preach? Once you have a clear picture of all of that, then start probing into the pre Islamic & Islamic Arabia and their figure heads. Unfortunately our Christian brethren have been indoctrinated ever since the Nicenean accord was imposed. That race with Greco roman pagan roots, white washed as gentile, was a make belief and even to this day, is the only way of inclusivity to refer non jews and have their deviant ways accommodated & established . Jews have more to do with Arabs than to pagan proto Greco-Romans ancient beliefs. The idea of Zionist cult as collective group took its birth (has nothing to do with Jesus pbuh preaching, Jews or gentiles belonging to Israel or semitism) It all started way back when Paul's Christology was rolled out and tweaked later with various versions over the centuries as a source to weaponise and othering. No one can even tell with certainty what Paul told and preached and was that written as such in Paul's Bible verbatim what Paul preached, or Paul completely corrupted it intentionally to fit his scheme of things. So truth has been violated long back that's the single point from where dispersion took its effect. It was destined to lead people into the dark period till the same message of Jesus pbuh was brought to people by Quran and Prophet Muhammad pbuh Umar RA was the 2nd caliph of Islam and not a prophet( that is a different paradigm altogether). He was also an expert Muslim jurist known for his pious and just nature, which earned him the epithet Al-Farooq (the one who distinguishes (between right and wrong) Bayt Al Maqqadas ( Dome of Rock) is a shrine and NOT a mosque. Al-Aqsa is a Mosque which is a seperate entity within the premises in the same court yard where the shrine is. Now the shrine Bayth Al Maqqadas is important and Holy in Islam because, it has a reference to prophet Mohammad's pbuh ascension to heaven, noted in chapter 53 of the Quran, Surah al-Najm (the star). And the related explanation in hadiths tells prophet's ascent through the seven heavens, and his encounters with previous prophets, including Jesus pbuh and Moses pbuh Umar RA redeeming Dome of Rock in Jerusalem is an event much later after the revelation of Quran and ascension & back of prophet Muhammad pbuh. The winds of despair blow harder because of our lack of knowledge of God. explore-islam.com/muslim-copts-before-muhammad/ th-cam.com/video/7oDaVcRhMhg/w-d-xo.html
"This guy doesn't even have clue about the past and ancient history of Arabia. Like who were the settlers thousands of years before Nabateans what did they worship what connection or influence...." For your information Robert G Hoyland has written a book on what you just talked about called "Arabia and the Arabs: From the Bronze Age to the Coming of Islam"
@@inquisitivemind007 I am refering to the host //as this guy//. Robert Hoyland must be selectively silent or he has approached his scholarly work from different perspective or isn't interested in relating all the new evidences and research & scholarly work that has been produced recently . It appears he is just feeding the empty head of this host, who is more interested in reacting and playing to the gallery who seems to be having an agenda behind. I welcome everyone to understand the arabic word "Fitra" if you are inquisitive. Just to let unknown be known all of us without any spec of doubt, believers, non believers, atheist, agnoistic , gnostics etc have that in us. To know more how, why for what, do your research on it, read books, ask experts/ scholars if at all you are interested. I would not prefer to say any further on that. Thank you and peace.
This long passage begins with sense but loses the sense along the way. There has never lived a man named Muhammad the way Islam depicts. And since Muhammad is false EVERYTHING is false
The host’s whole interviewer’s style is awful.He almost keeps putting words into Hoyland’s mouth. You have to listen very carefully to actually understand that Hoyland is not really claiming with a strong conviction what the host is insinuating (the whole interview style is awful) - he insinuates something and then he keeps thanking him and keeps asking him the same thing like he is trying to get him to agree to his point of view. The host talks too much with an agenda. I find that dishonest. I know he is trying to gain patrons and subscribers. But don’t be so relentless. Like Dr. Sean Anthony says - The problem with revisionism is that it creates more questions than it answers. Not that islamic traditional accounts shouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt. And Hoyland is honest, he is just raising questions but is not necessarily committed to any viewpoint. When he does NOT find much proof for something he says so. I think he learned well from late teacher’s mistakes (Patricia Crone ‘s mistakes in her early career). But I think this leaves him vulnerable to misuse by people who have religious polemical and political agendas like in this case, where people partially quote him, and turn his questions into definitive claims. He is really just raising questions and NOT making definitive claims,
If you want to see an awful interviewer then go and see that boring individual called Paul Williams from Blogging Theology. With Derek, you have to remember that it's been only a year since he has started looking into Islam compared to Christianity which he has been doing for years. It's understandable he is going to have some questions prepared beforehand. Derek has no agenda as he does the same with Christanity aswell so you can't get anyone more fairer than him.
I agree Derek is same with Christians but he is biased, he still has an agenda (mission like he said). He is sort of an atheist proselytizer. He is not neutral and it shows. I wish he would stop pushing his views and let the guests just speak, yes challenge them with arguments, and then letaudience make up their mind. He is trying too hard to debunk everything with oversimplifying explanations. Let the audience draw their conclusions.
@@M-i-k-a-e-l But they are NOT caste minded like Hindus do following the Rg Veda, where castes are defined by birth (there are many similar names for caste: jathi, gothra, varna etc, not coined by British colonists or Christian missionaries)
Who will ascend the mountain of the Lord? Who may stand in His holy place? The one who has clean hands and a pure heart Who does not trust in an idol Or swear by a false god They will receive blessing From the Lord And vindication From God their Savior He Saidina Omar Al Khattab
We should not confuse things Jesus (Isa) is the Messiah The other figure Omar is not the Messiah He was a righteous guided person in Arabic is known as Mahdi I thought many times about the mosque as the third temple Because it stands there almost 1400 years I believe,longer than first and second temple.. And is pure monotheistic no statues inside people worship the GOD of Abraham plus they belong to the family of Ismael It’s just petty that they don’t allow Jews to pray. I hope that will change soon in peaceful way It is so complicated issue That peace of land it was promised to Beni Israel but the covenant was broken when they tried to kill Jesus The gentiles controlled holy land and destroyed the second temple like Jesus said. Those Roman gentiles later on converted to a corrupted Christian form. When Muslims conquered holy land it was not controlled by Jews So the conquest was seen as monotheistic victory pure monotheistic. So are the Muslims to blame about Temple Mount I don’t think so because they didn’t destroy the temple. And if they try to destroy the mosque I am shore that this will trigger a big war Because it will be seen as traitors of Islam I think only return of Jesus can rectify things GOD willing
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
For Omar, Jewish and christian is the people of the Book, Or the people was once in the right path of the Oneness God, but not for the time being Omar was there, that's why Omar came to jerussalem to restore The holly place of Oneness God to Its original usage under the truelly Oneness God which is Islam, and he took the temple of Solomon to Its original place for worshiping Oneness God and purify it from worshiping messenger like Iesu(s) or misleading Jewish from Its original teaching of Prophet in the past, we moslem believe in all prophet. They all teach the same thing, but stupid and greedy people start to misleading people for their own ego/ political/economic interest.
Is it impossible to prepare better to these streams especially when you get somebody like Hoyland on your channel. The sound is awfull and I'm missing words
This clown kept saying the Armenian accounts, The Armenian wouldn’t know what happened in Jerusalem in 630s even if he did he wouldn’t mention Omer because Omer was such a great man who’s a Muslim
@@aos5929 p239-240 "...It is plain then that Sebeos is making use of a pre-existing written source in this first section of the final part of his history. A place of composition in Palestine, probably in Jerusalem, may be inferred from the focus of interest. It will therefore be designated the Palestine Source. Sebeos marks the transition to it from the Rshtuni Source with a brief editorial introduction..."
Muslim asked other faith to pay jeziah which is small amount of money in order to protect them and they can’t they font to have to pay it and even sometimes t’écuma font as them . Jeziah is kind of tax
@@MohamedMohamed-ws7mq To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007): "Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error." Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007 that is such a big stretch and I find it arrogant to assume that every Arabic word has an Aramaic root they are two different languages. Anyone who knows Arabic can easily tell you that al faruq means the discriminator
Conquering is not a measurement of good Muslims ruling, else UK occupying majority of the world is a better Islamic achievements. Which is not. Indonesia adopting Islam is the way of Islam to be spread. The same Andalusia adopting Islam before its invasion by Umayyads.
@@inquisitivemind007 If you believe Mohammed was a Prophet , and God alone is the only one worthy of worship. And you believe in the angels , and books , and prophets like Moses Abraham Isaac etc. , and believe in the last day and in Gods destiny . Then just repeat this and you are a Muslim: " There is noone worthy of worship except God and Mohammed is His Messenger " now you're a Muslim.
@@truthoverfalsehood__8757 There is none worthy of worship except God/Allah/Hashem etc. Muhammad is the messenger of God for the Arabs only and not mankind. The Quran is the book revealed to Muhammad and it doesn't nullify the Torah. Both books 📚 are valid today. Am I still Muslim?
@@inquisitivemind007 Everything you said is correct , the Torah is still valid and true it was not changed like 99% of the Muslims falsely believe now. However Mohammed was send to everybody , and the Torah is still valid and you should still be hebrew and not arabize yourself.
@@truthoverfalsehood__8757 That sent to everybody is a later doctrine that's been added and couldn't have been something Muhammad taught because firstly from the Jewish perspective he eats non-Kosher food (camel meat), secondly his qibla is towards Mecca: no Jew is going to downgrade Jerusalem to no 3 and have Mecca as their qibla. Would you accept the Mahdi to come if he changed the qibla to Istanbul?
Or did Umar build the prophesied “abomination of desolation” that would sit in place of the temple. It was prophesied in Daniel and Jesus stated it multiple times.
@Xhorxhe Etxeberria Bayt al-Maqdis comes from Beit ha-Mikdash which is the Jewish ✡️ Temple. Muslim Apologists lie when they say it means Jerusalem. We know what early Muslims called Jerusalem, which was Aelia, as it's written on the back of some coins that says Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
Shalom, Salam, Peace. Algebra Of God: No Needs Or No Desires. Thus No Slumber Or Fatigue. Thus No Family Or Partners. Algebra Of Creation: Has Needs And Has Desires. Needs Slumber And Is Affected By Fatigue. Has A Family Connection And Has Partners. Thus Jesus Son Of Mary, Was The Devout Messiah, Servant Of God.
Ya I been thinking the same and I think Umar made up Muhammad and couldn't wait till he had his made up person die off. Btw nobody actually saw this Muhammad and was had a small tent 🎪 over him wherever he went and only Umar could go in the tent and resite what he says. (Btw it was alot easier to fool people back then)
Messiah is not the prophet muhammad, it is Jesus or a title to mahdi "rightly guided" . The prophet muhammad is no messiah he was the seal of the prophets, nor did he claim to be a messiah. But it is interesting, i think they were waiting on a prophet mentioned in isiah 47
loooooooooooooooool the most authentic historical sources that have ever been recorded are exactly the islamic sources. even orientatlists including Gustave Le Bon recognize how accurate they are. you want to leave what intellectuals have concluded and live in an alternate universe ? I'm not even surprised in this age of delusional self-identifying and spread of conspiracies. I bet you're a fan of joe rogan's pseudo-theories too
eh they are different. in Norse and Hindu "mythology" they are just end of a cycle where as in Abrahamic faith its a whole new shift to ultimate reality which goes on forever.
I think it's in the Persian religion of Zoroaster as well - with the ultimate victory of the good principle (Ahura Mazda) over the evil forces.(Ahriman.)
I think it's a common thing to believe in some sort of an "end of the world as we know it" in many Indo-European myths, this belief was adopted by the Jews from the Zoroastrians.
Ini kebenaran islam bro, muhammad di quran itu gelar mesianik yg dibuat oleh orang" Yahudi saduki di Yaman abad ke 6 yg menantikan kedatangan mesias Abad ke 7 ada orang yg menggunakan gelar mesianik ini untuk menyebarkan agama
If I need my car fixed I take it to the mechanic not the dry cleaner's, If I'm sick I got to a Doctor not to a Lawyer. If I want to learn about Islam I go to a Muslim Scholar not a Non-Muslim. Seriously this is why most of the things people like this say is wrong, as much as they have studied it was limited, they did not study the whole Quran, starting with a complete understanding of the Arabic language... And they certainly did not study all the Hadith books. Im not a scholar and I found so many holes in this.
Hi Derek! Thank you for this conversation, it is indeed really interesting! However, I just wanted to point out how Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) himself felt about Umar. You seem to have been familiar with the Sunni-Shia narrative and one thing you might as well dig into in your podcast is that even Sunnis can't deny that Umar was so passionate about his Torah and his Jewish beliefs despite his "conversion" to Islam. In fact, there are many examples of how the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) rejected Umar when he came with his book and warned people against him. Shiites strongly insist that Umar pretended to convert to Islam, when in fact he was following the orders of his Jewish teachers. Kaab Akbar is the clearest example of a distorter of Islamic teachings. Also, he constantly praises Umar for being his best student (at a time when Kaab himself was still a Jew, and Umar supposedly converted to Islam). It seems a little strange to me that a Jewish teacher praises the "new Muslim" (Umar) for his knowledge of the Torah. It is highly possible that Umar was fulfilling his duties as a Jew and promoting his interests rather than representing Islam or fulfilling his covenant to Prophet (saw). There is too much evidence of Jewish customs to be brought into Islam by the mob of Umar, and I think it is worth looking at alternative narrative of looking at Umar as a Jew instead of a Muslim. Peace, thank you for your efforts!
Sister Fatima Maryam Umar ibn khattab radiallahu 'anhu is from Bani 'Adi one of the ten branches of Quraysh. Prophet Muhammad is from Banu Hashim another branch of Quraysh that are the lineage of ishmael the son of abraham PBUT all. Also father-in-law of the prophet and a senior companion. That the prophet ask Allah to convert one of the one oh is closest to Allah. Please Read Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3681 Book 49, Hadith 77 English translation : Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 368 How can he be Jewish??? But Abdullah ibn Saba' was a Yemenite Jew from the Arab Himyar tribe he had exaggerated reverence for Ali radiallahu 'anhu his followers are (the Saba'iyya) that Shia tradition came from. Just to be clear I am a direct Descendant of Ali radiallahu 'anhu with both will document lineage and DNA proof so As a Syed (that is raised knowing that I'm no different than any other human) I know my family. I have seen the whole video that is all just theories with no clear facts just a made-up research from a translation of translation of a translation to prove a non-Muslim version of a well-known and documented Islamic figure Umar ibn khattab radiallahu 'anhu. But We just respect their opinions as we must do with all others but we base our beliefs on actual evidence historical and scientific.
@omar alahdal just theories with no clear facts? Such as what? And when you mentioned the research is a translation of a translation of a translation. Are you referring to the 4 Arabic manuscripts that were shown? I have never seen so many original manuscripts in one interview before - a pure treat for those who are interested in academia.
You lie and slander and then go as far as calling for one of the most influential people from the religion of Islam "worthy of being looked as a Jew?". Fear Allah and the last day. Ali (R.A) loved the people you slander against. He stood by them, he worked under them. May Allah Guide you as well as I.
Interesting Arabian and the Arabs book have old pagan Arab Gods and pre-modern Arabic script, called Old south Arabian script, Arabs have few script before Islam in Jordan, Yemen and Hijaz region, Nabatean Arab script become today modern arabic, used in Quran and today Arabic
It’s always funny to see people talking about Islam and Islamic figures without having a proper Islamic education. The mental acrobatics are bewildering, considering a simple thing as Umar’s nickname “Al-Farouk”, which is a word in Arabic that means “The differentiator”, that is the one who differentiates between truth and falsehood, but no you and your esteemed guest think it’s borrowed from Syriac just to make up a story around it. Pathetic.
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007): "Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error." Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007 First of all, فرقاب is not an Arabic word and it is nowhere in the Quran. If it’s written فرقاب in your source then you should discard that source. The word in 8:29 is فرقان. Second of all the Quran is an Arabic revelation, it was revealed to an Arabic prophet, therefore if a word in the Quran has an Arabic meaning, it makes absolutely no sense trying to get a foreign meaning of a word and force fitting that meaning in the middle of an otherwise Arabic text. Imagine if I open an English book and find one word, say “bowl” and claim that the word “bowl” in Arabic means urine and then I go ahead and substitute “urine” in place of every bowl in that text. Finally, Umer’s nickname is فاروق it comes from the root فرق، which means to separate or differentiate. Open an Arabic dictionary and look it up, it’s not that hard.
@@inquisitivemind007 my friend that is besides the point. My question is, if the Quran was revealed in Arabic, to an Arab prophet, among Arabs, and if a word in it has a meaning in Arabic, why should we look for its meaning in other languages? Can you please answer that. Also, I never said that there are no foreign words in Arabic. Muslim scholars differ in this matter, some claim that words like جهنم and إبليس are borrowed from other languages but these words are proper nouns. Other Muslim scholars insist that these words have their origins in Arabic.
@Rashad Abdelrahman because if you look at the interview and the passage in Tabari, the name Faruq was mentioned by an ex-Jew. It's also mentioned on p189 which says "...According to Salim: When `Umar entered Syria, a Jew from Damascus met him and said: "Peace be upon you, O Faruq! You are the master of Jerusalem. By God, you will not return before God conquers Jerusalem!..." So one asks oneself did this ex-Jew call Umar this title based on the meaning of Redeemer in his native language which was probably Hebrew or what you claim. The answer lies at the location at where Umar was when he was called this name which was at the foundation stone where the Jewish ✡️ Temple one stood aswell as him riding on a donkey 🫏 afterwards at some point. After all a donkey doesn't travel faster than a horse or carry more load than a camel so why downgrade your transportation means?
Jerusalem is land of many prophets. The 3rd blessed city in Islam and as gate to heaven in isra miraj and as the capital city of end time, where Jesus establish his gov and antichrist will be defeated.
There is a difference between riding on a donkey and seeing yourself as just a passenger 🫏 and riding on the Messiah's donkey 🫏 and seeing yourself as the Redeemer.
The Quran never mention who is the servant, and we never know where is the location of Masjidil Haram and Masjidil Aqsa. Everything we know is only based on muslims tradition
@@DusTman761 the Quran does not mention who is the servant ? Are you forreal ? If the Quran is talking about the night journey then who else would be the servant ?
@@inquisitivemind007 lampart did not made any strong claims ,just opened up questions. He stayed away from Islam but focused on umar RA. I don't know how you conclude islam is beaten ,more Islam is further substantiated
@@sunset2.00 because if you read what happened in Muslims sources and then compare that to the James-Howard Johnston, Stephen Shoemaker and this interview it's clear someone is lying -- they both can't be right and it's pretty clear to me that classical Muslim historians are the liars.
@@inquisitivemind007 You have to give an alternative theory of what happened rather than just cast doubt on some of the uncertain aspects of the muslim native because there bound to be some due to time . You have to show your theory of what happened has more backing as per evidence for me to consider adopting it . Right now it is rational for me adopt the muslim narrative of what happened. Because only casting doubt is a race to the bottom and not productive at all like casting doubt on atheist morality rather than saying moral nihilism is a more rational position to take . I don't have the time or capability to judge every doubt to verify but I can judge the soundness of the overall theory of history or moral system withe supported evidence. That is why you should think this way too.Give a theory of what happened and give evidences for the overall situation and give arguments why it is more rational position to take.
Yes but Bayt al-Maqdis doesn't mean the city of Jerusalem or the Temple Mount area. It means the Jewish Temple 🕍 as it comes from the Hebrew Beit HaMikdash
@Xhorxhe Etxeberria This is what it says in Tabari Volume 2 p128-129 "....According to al-Ilarith-Ibn Sa'd-HishAm-his father: Abraham migrated from Babylon to Syria, and Sarah came to him and offered herself to him, so he married her and took herwith him. At that time he was thirty-seven years old, and hecame to Harran and stayed there for a while. Then he came toJordan and stayed there for a while. Then he went to Egypt andstayed there for a while; then went back to Syria and settled in the *land of Beersheba* between Iliya (Jerusalem) and Palestine. He dug a well and built a house of prayer, but then some of the people of the land harmed him, so he left them and went to live between al-Ramlah and Iliya . He dug a well there and stayed there, his wealth and servants already having become abundant. He was the first to show hospitality to guests , the first to crumble bread and soak it in broth, and the first to see white hair. The children born to Abraham were Ishmael, his eldest, whose mother was a Copt named Hagar; and Isaac, who was blind andwhose mother was Sarah bt. Bethuel b. Nahor b . Serug b. Reu b. Peleg b. Eber b. Shelach b. Arpachshad b. Shem b . Noah...." You're telling me Hagar travelled 1400km from Beersheba to Mecca by foot carrying a baby in the heat?
The reason why people don't see it as the Jewish Temple is because it isn't rectangular in shape as shown in pictures of Solomon’s Temple. What people have to understand is that the holy bit is the rock 🪨 and not the building which doesn't matter what shape it is whether it's rectangular or circular.
When you doubt any sahaba, you doubt the judgment of Prophet Mohammad(sa). Allah informed him who was munafiq. Any insult to sahaba, is insult to Prophet Mohammad(sa). Prophet (sa) said all my sahabas are like stars in the dark night. If anybody follow any sahaba, the will be successful.
@Tubba if you doubt a prophet of God, you doubt God. A prophet don't say anything from themself. Allah clearly told to follow prophet Mohammad. Doubting on prophet Mohammad will cause your Faith invalid.
@Tubba The prophet didnt make it an article of faith to dip the fly and throw in before drinking, he said that the wings of the fly has a disease and the other has the cure. If anyone didn’t want to do it, its fine. However, you should know that research was done on that subject, and promising results was gathered. For example, Professor Juan Alvarez Bravo at the University of Tokyo, said: “We will witness a rapid treatment for many diseases, which consists of extracts from flies” Moreover, some researchers from Auburn University found a protein in the fly’s saliva, which could accelerate the process of wound healing and chronic skin cracking. In addition, researchers at Stanford University have found a substance in the fly that could potentially improve the immune system of a human. So, would I do it? Yes, even if there wasn’t a scientific research behind it.
@@xiuhcoatl4830 did you ever spend some time on Quran? Give it a try. Watch and listen some Quran with translation. Yesterday a Christian blogger became Muslim after long research. His name Bobby. His TH-cam channel name is "Bobby's perspective". Thanks.
Try researching the definition of Messiah, before you tell ppl it's a man. Christ, the Messiah is IN YOU... there is no man in me, just the OIL of the Anointing
@@inquisitivemind007 and can one believe everything that is written in a book? For if one lies with their tongue they will surely lie with a pen. But that would mean reading the Bible literally which Paul calls the letter and the letter is death. But what is unseen, or the spirit or intent of the letter, leads to life. I Am with the latter. I travail in pain until Christ be formed in you. Just like it was revealed in Paul, not to Paul. The Bible speaks for itself. Christ potential is in everyone... it's a spiritual birth. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit.
@In-Powered Theopanes is a Roman historian writing ✍️ in Greek. Why would he make this up that some Jews ✡️ thought Muhammad was the Messiah? You have to remember that Mecca to the Jews ✡️ is like what the Vatican 🇻🇦 is to the Muslims - nothing. They were interested in one thing only: Jerusalem their holy city.
@@inquisitivemind007 tbh, I can't speak for him. It very well may be true, that some Jews believed that. But I am not interested in what some ppl think. Nothing against you personally. I am simply clarifying the truth. Christ is not a man born or yet to be born. The savior is within each individual. So for a theosophist to claim what 'some' Jews thought, is simply misleading without further context. Wishing you well, this is just a discussion.
@@inquisitivemind007 btw, Jerusalem in the mid east is not the holy city. Jerusalem above, which is the higher mind, is the holy city. The only thing holy about the location is the bullet holes. Galatians 4 for reference
Muhammed is a composite figure of Jesus Christ and Umar. Muhammed is not a name but a title meaning "praised one". Jesus was the first Praised One. Umar was his successor in the minds of the early Arabs. Alawites are the only Muslims who know the truth about Islam.
@@greyralph1637 and the 2 people in Tabari who called him Faruq was a Jew and it has to do with Jerusalem and a non-Jew and it has to do with the foundation stone where the Jewish ✡️ Temple once stood.
@@inquisitivemind007 as if Tabari quoting everything regardless of Isnad makes him reliable in every bit. I dare say, You wouldn’t take Tabari's account when it won't suit you. Go on, I can feel the fire.
@@greyralph1637 you're telling me Tabari doesn't know anything about isnaad? About checking the source and making sure where you got your information from is accurate?
I AM CONSIDERING writing a book about Western Civilization using non-European sources (there are plenty). I am surveying here: how many people will find it credible? 😂
@QabilAGhor Rebuilding the Jewish Temple he showed Ibn Sa'd (Muslim source) and enteries in Theopanes, Agapius, Michael the Syrian, Sebeos etc. (Non-Muslim source). The Dome of the Rock being the Jewish Temple he showed a manuscript from Al-Biruni (Muslim source) and a painting in the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican (Non-Muslim source) aswell as a Jewish one. Also if there is Jewish and Christian corroboation on something then this means that it must have happened otherwise how can two different communities record something that didn't.
@@inquisitivemind007 I thought the main topic was whether Umar even visited Jerusalem. Our guest here doubts it for no good reason! Even though he mentions a non-Muslim source (Syriac chronical written in 750 AD) which corroborates exactly that, he doesn't believe it because according to him it was written 150 years after the event. Umar died in 644 AD, so actually it was 106 years, which in my opinion is not a long time, considering how few books were written in those days. Then there are Muslim sources, with a chain of 'isnad, which also corroborates the same story. So, why should he doubt it? Muslims have NEVER claimed that Umar was some kind of a Messiah. So, it's a foolish non-issue brought up by the host. I don't know of ANY Muslim who think that just because Umar rode a donkey, somehow he was a Messiah or a Messianic figure. This is truly laughable. The guest also questions the title, "al-Farooq" and cannot even acknowledge that it's Arabic, and not Hebrew. He calls it "Semitic, but why not Arabic? It's also a proper Arabic name and simply means one who distinguishes (right from wrong)." The problem with this video is that Judeo-Christian themes/prophecies are being mixed up with Islamic history in a way that is weird, to say the least.
@@inquisitivemind007 Early Islamic sources, including Ibn Saad, simply say Prophet Muhammad's spirit was taken to Jerusalem and from there onwards to high heavens. But none of the Companions of the Prophet or other Muslims knew that the Temple Mount was the site that he visited. As discussed in this video. Umar had to ask Sophronius where the site could have been for the Temple. As we all know by now, it was the Roman Fort Antonia, and the Temple could not possibly have situated there. Israeli archeologists even found a Roman coin at the bottom of one of the walls during excavations, so they could not have been built at the time of Solomon. Actually, the Temple has never been found, because both Josephus and the Bible say that it was leveled to the ground. There are lots of TH-cam videos on this. Even good Jews know this for a fact but won't admit it because that would mean ceding the entire Temple Mount site to Palestinians. By the way, Israeli archeologists have recently uncovered the site of Melchizedek's Temple, which is far older, but after so much tunneling and digging, no evidence has been found that Solomon's Temple stood at the Temple Mount.
Omar is a controversial figure in Islam, for many Muslims, although main stream Sunni Islam (followers of the de facto rulers) considers him a main figure in Islam . Islam does not promote quantity of followers, but stresses on Facts and the true few followers.
@@muhammadnursultan9704 where did you learn that from? Answer, in the Quran and Sunnah Omar is acoward in wars (run away in battles with the prophet) Omar contradicted the prophet in many cases, he hales Abusufyan (the head of anti Islamic side of Quraish ) The Quran is 'full' of bad stories of the contemporaries of the prophet where Omar had them around his rule . Omar bad stories are in the Quran w/o being named in person. Omar Ibn Alkhatab is the true model-example for ISIS. If one knows the Prophet's personality as the mercy for the entire world he would find Omar is the opposite of that in many cases
Actually Muhammad was the first to talk in Zionist language as shown not just in Armenian text 🇦🇲 Sebeos 660AD but in Syriac text called Chronicle 1234AD aswell.
@@inquisitivemind007 I looked thru your channel,. I am shia ,. So a lot of the people you bash I agree with,. I’m sorry the Sunnis hurt you bro,. So what is you point was Muhammad (saws) a jew or auntie Semite?,. What argument are you going with,.
@Jaleel42 بذرة التفاحBased on Tabari's account, when Umar signed the treaty with Sophronius, Umar swore on the Book of the Covenant, that is, the Torah. That treaty is displayed to this day at Umar's mosque.
@@jaleel42 that person hates muslims both sunni and shia. you shias believe in Muhammad as a prophet too idk why youd rather ally with a complete anti Muslim rather than a Sunni Muslim
Masjid in Arabic refers to a place of worship be it a mosque, a Jewish temple or a church. In verse 17:1 masjid is mentioned. LIMITLESS in His glory is He who transported His servant by night from the Inviolable House of Worship [at Mecca] to the Remote House of Worship [, at Jerusalem] - the environs of which We had blessed -so that We might show him some of Our symbols: for, verily, He alone is all-hearing, all-seeing That’s a fair translation of the verse. The verse has nothing to do with the mosque built later on when the Muslims kicked out the Christian Romans during the time of the second khalifa Umar.
@@inquisitivemind007 no it existed and recosruct it It is holy place even for jews want to destroy the mosque on it The mosque is located on the southern part of the Temple Mount or Haram al-Sharif, an enclosure expanded by King Herod the Great beginning in 20 BCE during his reconstruction of the Second Jewish Temple.[29] The mosque resides on an artificial platform that is supported by arches constructed by Herod's engineers to overcome the difficult topographic conditions resulting from the southward expansion of the enclosure into the Tyropoeon and Kidron valleys.[30] During the late Second Temple period, the present site of the mosque was occupied by the Royal Stoa, a basilica running the southern wall of the enclosure.[30] The Royal Stoa was destroyed along with the Temple during the siege of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. It was once thought that Emperor Justinian's "Nea Ekklesia of the Theotokos", lit. 'the New Church of the God-Bearer' and commonly known as the Nea Church, dedicated to the God-bearing Virgin Mary, consecrated in 543, was situated where al-Aqsa Mosque was later constructed. However, remains identified as those of the Nea Church were uncovered in the south part of the Jewish Quarter in 1973.[31][32] Analysis of the wooden beams and panels removed from the mosque during renovations in the 1930s shows they are made from Lebanese cedar and cypress. Radiocarbon dating gave a large range of ages, some as old as 9th century BCE, showing that some of the wood had previously been used in older buildings.[33] However, reexamination of the same beams in the 2010s gave dates in the Byzantine period.[34] During his excavations in the 1930s, Robert Hamilton uncovered portions of a multicolor mosaic floor with geometric patterns, but did not publish them.[35] The date of the mosaic is disputed: Zachi Dvira considers that they are from the pre-Islamic Byzantine period, while Baruch, Reich and Sandhaus favor a much later Umayyad origin on account of their similarity to a mosaic from an Umayyad palace excavated adjacent to the Temple Mount's southern wall.[35]
Read Daneial 9:24-27 We know for sure that abomination desolation was at year 135 CE {{ temple of Jupiter in top of the temple}} so add 70 weeks = 490 lunar years=475 solar years 135+475=610CE , at that year prophet Muhammad pbuh start to receive revelations from Allah .
I'm afraid you've been lied to and Muhammad is not the prophet mentioned in the scriptures for 2 reasons. 1) He eats non-Kosher food i.e. camel 🐫 meat and his qibla is towards Mecca and not Jerusalem. Had his qibla stayed as Jerusalem and he didn't eat non-Kosher food then I would have said yes he is the prophet mentioned in their scriptures.
The only time in history that an idol (( temple of Jupiter)) was built over thr second temple is year 135 CE. If there was another idol erected in the top of the second temple any other time , please inform me Beside , Rabbi Abramson testified this prophecy ((Dan 9:24-27)) and applied to prophet Muhammad pbuh , I have the video, I can give you the link if you want to 🙂
@Hesham Mohamed believing Muhammad was sent to the Arabs only and believing he was sent mankind is not the same thing. Muhammad is definitely not the one mentioned in the Toran for 2 reasons 1) he eats non-Kohser food (camel meat) 2) his qibla is towards Mecca and not Jerusalem.
My comment had been deleted !!! I gave you a link of a discussion between Adnan and rabbi Ben Abrahamson (( Arabian prophet p2)) from 00:40-1:36 the rabbi applied Dan 9 to prophet Muhammad , with some miscalculation , may be due to the uncomfort of public presence and noise in Hyde park. So , who deleted my comment and why !?🙂
@Hesham Mohamed links are deleted by TH-cam - it's not Derek. Even with me if I reply and post a link my comment will be deleted automatically by TH-cam. Muhammad is not the prophet mentioned in Daniel because 1) Muhammad eats non-Kosher food I.e. camel meat 2) his qibla is towards Mecca and not Jerusalem anymore. Would you accept the Mahdi who is to come if he eats non-halal food and says the qibla is now towards Beirut?
Thanks Derek. You were asking very interesting questions. It should be clear that Islam is the by-product of the Sasanian-Byzantine war of 602-628 and it should be studied in that context, in which certain Arabs and Jews were for various reasons involved. The Islamic literature has made every effort to hide this fact. Now an Arab-Jewish coalition to conquer Jerusalem ? Yes, it is explicitly mentioned in the Quran: وَ لَقَدْ كَتَبْنَا فِی الزَّبُوْرِ مِنْۢ بَعْدِ الذِّكْرِ اَنَّ الْاَرْضَ یَرِثُهَا عِبَادِیَ الصّٰلِحُوْنَ, that is the Quran says based on Jewish texts you guys will inherit the promised land , exactly as Sebeos says! But the question is whether this coalition refers to the first time Jerusalem was captured with the Persians involvement or the second time in 630's?
I think when Jerusalem fell to the Persians and this news reached Muhammad that it was under Jewish control - as stated in the Jewish text Sefer Zerubbabel - it was then that Muhammad started having his night journey to Jerusalem as he thought Nehemiah ben Hushiel had rebuilt the temple. When Jerusalem was captured back by the Romans and this news reached Muhammad and his Constitution of Medina community, it was at this point that Operation Holy Land was initiated as shown in the Stephen Shoemaker interview. The goal was simple: to remove all Romans from the Holy Land and restore all temple practices.
Why not assuming Muhammad was in Jerusalem and expelled together with Jews when they were expelled by the Persians?Then they retreated to Medina and planned the operation. (The Hijra from Jerusalem to Medina.) Mecca was irrelevant. The Quran’s environment matches Jerusalem more than Mecca.
@Travel Europe What about the manuscript shown at 32:47 which is the earliest mention of Mecca in a non-Muslim source called Edessene Apocalypse dated 692AD. Mecca must have come into the picture 📸 somehow.
Not sure if the name Mecca has appeared before mid eighth century. But in any case Mecca came to the picture for various reasons including giving the new empire and its religion a distinctive Arabian identity.
@Travel Europe how did all of the competing Muslim groups come to agree on Mecca? Surely someone in one of these competing must have documented that Mecca was never our holy city.
The academic guest is a very learned man and his discourse is interesting and informative. Who is the host of this program? Is he a skateboarder or a snowboarder?
In 7 Century The Khuzestan Chronicle records an otherwise-unknown messianic claimant who arose alongside the Muslim conquest of Khuzestan. This Messiah led the Jews in destroying numerous Christian churches in Iraq and coastal Iran en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_messiah_claimants
If you want to know what is going on I can tell you. I am appointed by the Sanhedrin to be a teacher for Non-Jews. The Nasi is my Sandak. So send me an email if you want to know what's going on and we can talk.
The Dome marks the holy of holies. It is the attempt of an alliance of apocalyptic exiled Jews, and Christian pagans to rebuild the third temple, eventually copted by Muslims.
It's Umar (RA) , kindly please Put Some Respect On His Name. Thank you He a companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace & blessing of Allah be upon him ) and not a messenger not a messiah not anything that you're saying
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
I don't watch MV for months cause of all the virtue signalling and pandering,I decide to try and give it a chance,then 30 min in the video,"I'm not a big fan that Wah-man...",pfff,bye once more I guess.
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007): "Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error." Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007 The word فرق / Frq is an Arabic root word that means to separate, in the Arabic language most words are just derivations of a primal three lettered word. Farooq /فاروق is a derivation which means "he who seperates" (between good and bad, that is a strong moral compass). To give another example, the word haloob/حلوب : "that which gives milk" is a derivation of hlb/حلب which means to milk; so it is a very common type of derivation, the word فرقاب you provided doesn't fit here as it doesn't have a root in فرق. Saying it has another meaning because in another language it has another meaning or that it originated from that different language is weird, because one, no one ever used the word/ title with the Aramaic meaning and two, sounding similar and belonging to the same linguistic family does not mean they have the same meaning or even origin, in linguistics and translation studies they call it Fake Friends, like the word gift means two different things in English and German (present-poison) even though both languages are Germanic, same with the word pain in French which means bread although English borrowed quite a lot of words from French. This theory/claim is just weird and fringe, I wonder if Jeffrey Arthur was just influenced by his Protestant faith, no one takes his claims seriously except Christian missionaries.
Wikipedia: "In Abrahamic religions, a messiah 'the anointed one' is a savior or liberator of a group of people. The concepts of messianism, and of a Messianic Age originated in Judaism, and in the Hebrew Bible, in which a mashiach is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil." Still waiting.
It is ejaculation. This is why they pour the oil over a bald head to signify the phallus ejaculating. In that sense there have been many messiahs, religious, civil and military including non-Jewish for example various Assyrian and Persian leaders but that is for another day. The root is ejaculation.
@@TheInterestedObserver There is many messiah, but only one match all prophecy in Jewish book.. Which is a person who punished and rejected by own people. How the messiah who being punished but still save peoples and make miracle, different than other, that is the key... And there won't be other messiah in the future but judge, because the world situation today is not for messiah no more, but for judge.
@@yoelpardede9480 Well I guess it depends on which 'holy' book you choose to follow. Jews do not think the meshiach has arrived yet, Muslims say that person is Dajjal and only their book matters now. Christians say it is Jesus and eventually they turned Jesus into GOD! At some point we have to sit back with an honest appraisal which says. They cannot *ALL* be right (as they are opposing narratives) and there is a *veeeeeery* good chance that *none* of them are right because let's face it, it is all state sponsored information.
No ! In Islam it is not A messiah in Islam does not mean a liberator or a savior. messiah comes from a root m-s-h which means (مسح\wipe), because when he wiped or touched (masaha) the sick with his hands, they were healed. It has nothing to do with the meaning of anointing with the anointing of holy oil, as in Judaism and Christianity
Muslims which are Sunni Muslims, Sunni means orthodox believe only Allah knows the future and the unseen, this man is confused with the Shia they believe a lot of things
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
For a PhD, this man is shockingly ignorant of the Islamic view of Judaism and the reason why Jerusalem was the first direction of prayer! Made me laugh at his ignorance!
if they asked an Arab child about the word Al-farouq الفاروق he will said it comes from verb فرق Faraqa and Al Faeouq a tittle simply means in Arabic "The person who differentiates between right and wrong"
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007): "Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error." Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007 i am arab there is no word in our langauge is فرقاب we have root of word الفاروق al farouq which is فرق faraq so we dont need to find other langauge to explain its meaning
@5cats so you think the Arabic language is pure is it? No words from other languages entered it? I'd advise you to watch the interview with Marijn van Putten on foreign words in the Quran.
@@inquisitivemind007 we have foreign words such as جهنم or إستبرق but those words have no roots in the Arabic language but al Farouq is Arabic word has a verb "root" which is فرق faraqa.. An arab boy in the premier school know that .. فرق يفرق أفرق فارق فاروق يعني هنا الفعل بصوره الثلاث "الماضي والمضارع والأمر" وأيضا اسم الفاعل والمصدر
@@5cats267 Does the Arab boy in premier school know that the 2 times in Tabari when Umar was called Faruq was by a Jew and ex-Jew? Does the Arab boy in premier school know that not only was Umar called Faruq by a Jew and an ex-Jew but it had to do with Jerusalem and the Foundation Stone where the Jewish Temple once stood? I'm sure the Arab boy in premier school will realise that the Jew and ex-Jew who called Umar Faruq weren't using the Arabic dictionary but were using the word Faruq based on the Hebrew dictionary and they meant Umar was the Redeemer.
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
You guys are wasting you and others time. Second Caliph pbuh was Caliph not massiah. Isa ( pbuh) is massiah and he will descend when Allah wants him to.
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
Umar , Allah pleased with him, was sort of Messaih for the Jews... Coz when Umar gained Jerusalem without bloodshed, he allowed the Jews to return to the holy land.. Christians/Romans had banned Jews from entering the Holy Land for over 550 years... But it was Umar who allowed them to visit the Holy Land and visit the places of their worship... But it was put in the treaty by the Romans/Christians that so ok! They can visit the Holy Land but they cannot settle down in the Holy Land.. So, yes, Umar, Allaah pleased with him, was a kind of messaih for the Jews... Messaih in the means that he brought an end to their total exile from the land
The 'Farooq' was the given title to Omar by Prophet Muhammad. In Arabic it means who can categorize things between good and evil.
According to the Arab khoza3balat yeah
Yea so if you for to 12:20 you will see he says this and says it also means redeemer which is true what's ur point
Farook is an Arabic masculine name that means the one who distinguishes between truth and falsehood, the separator, the one who differentiates between matters. Everything that differentiates between two things is Farook. It is one of the names of the sword, and it is the nickname of Omar Ibn Al-Khattab because he was a just caliph, who distinguished between truth and falsehood. It is in Syriac, meaning the chosen one
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007):
"Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error."
Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
False alfarouq means the saviour in Aramaic and Syriac .. Omar was from a qureish tribe from lataqia
@@OksintasObones He was of Bani Adiyy.
I am viewing your interviews with great interest. I find them very interesting. It was very rare to find any Western academic discussing different aspects of Islam until recently. Thank you for your efforts to bring Islam on the global stage for discussions. Judaism, Christianity and Islam, after all, are all about one and only God. So, apart from various arguments and differences of opinion, I find it very interesting.
Pure high-level scholarship. And a very worthy successor to Patricia Crone who was the first to designate Umar as the "redeemer", i.e. a messianic figure.
Your right he is a high level scholar much more so than say Father Edouard-Marie Gallez 🤣
Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) was not the Messiah. He was the second Caliph. The Messiah is Jesus (peace be upon him).
We dont talking abouth faith, we talking about historically evidence
@@DusTman761 We know historical evidence about Umar a lot. He was one of the close companions of Prophet Muhammad and a Caliph but nothing more than that. Jesus is the Messiah to the Children of Israel and who would also come at the end of time.
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
@@inquisitivemind007a Messiah can be a non Jew, The Messiah is exclusively Jewish. There is a difference.
To the other guy, there’s almost no information on who or what Umar was until the 8th century, so the information we have (even Islamic information) is clouded by what those who came after him wanted us to believe, not necessarily what’s true.
I mean historically it’s not even known if a group of people called Muslims existed until around the rule of Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan where we see a deviation away from other groups and then later on the 8th century where we have writings detailing Muslims as a distinct group. Before then we see coins of mu’awiyah that feature a cross on the reverse side of the coinage issued by him. Very much suggesting there isn’t a clear differentiation between early “Muslims” and Christians.
😂😂😂 Omar was from Syria
59:00 It is referring to the conquest of some place around the Sinai.
So as per terms of surrender people could either convert to Islam or give some form of compensation.
This has been the universal rule that every conquered people are allowed to convert and become citizens of the Islamic State, where they are directly subjects. Or they could give some form of monetary compensation or leave the lands altogether.
Left out jizya and sex slavery, plunder too
@Shashank Tripathi The Muslims believe in the religion of Abraham and Qaba was built by him. Try to comprehend, we are not asked to worship the Qaba or Aqsa we worship the God of Abraham in the direction of Qaba for unity( rich,poor together in one direction)
And we are told in the holy Qur'an to tell you the Christians that we believe the religion of Abraham, Whatever he believed we believe in it. God new you wouldn't thin'k pass son of God,trinity concept
@JZaib Khan Muhammad wanted to know the religion of Abraham he included pagan beliefs in Islam.
Hanif is classical syriac means 'pagan'!
@@Stardust475 Jesus did the same, he said, he wasn't sent to change any law from the previous book
Gotta love hoyland, he lays out his reasoning and is generally non committal to any one historical view. Awesome scholar. I've carefully considered the idea the caliphs were building a third temple, but I just don't see it. For example the praise heaped on Cyrus the Great for allowing the Jews to return home and construct the second temple is massive. One would imagine a third temple would be equally praised, if not indeed more so, as substantially more time has elapsed at this point than the 70 years spent in babylon, You would imagine Umar would be a national hero to this day. At very least we would expect the Jewish polemic of Umar built the 3rd temple and them evil later caliphs disfigured the piety of Umar. In these sources we see expectations then silence on the subject, this tells me it's just that, expectations but nothing manifest. The key to this I feel is the role of the caliph in the early rashidun, clearly he is a leader, but from where his authority originates, why etc is very difficult to understand, perhaps even impossible with any degree of certainty. Under them conditions I think hoyland is correct to not offer much speculation, instead Parsing out what we can say to offer up probabilities.
Their hearts were full of hate and arrogance, which is likely why they have no gratefulness towards the Muslims even after the Muslims saved them from Christians many times. Even during the time of the Prophet, they testified that he was indeed a Messenger, yet they still vowed to oppose him only because he was an Arab and not a Jew.
Excellent point!. I don’t appreciate the title given by the host and his whole interviewer’s style. He almost keeps putting words into Hoylland’s mouth. You have to listen very carefully to actually understand that he is not really claiming with a strong conviction what the host is insinuating (the whole interview style is awful) - he insinuates something and then he he keeps thanking him and than keeps asking him the same thing like he is trying to get him to agree to his point of view. The host talks too much with an agenda. I find that dishonest. I know he is trying to gain patrons and subscribers. But don’t be so relentless. Like Dr. Sean Anthony says - The problem with revisionism is that it creates more questions than it answers. Not that islamic traditional accounts shouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt. And Hoylland is honest, he is just raising questions but is not necessarily committed to any viewpoint. When he does NOT find much proof for something he says so. I think he learned well from late teacher’s mistakes (Patricia Crone ‘s mistakes in her early career). But I think this leaves him vulnerable to misuse by people who have religious polemical and political agendas like in this case, where people partially quote him, and turn his questions into definitive claims. He is really just raising questions and making definitive claims,
While Umar allowed Jews to return to Jerusalem, it doesn't mean he was actually nice to them overall. After all, he was the one who expelled them from Arabia and tried to do the same in Egypt. Basically, this idea of Umar the Messiah, even if it's true, was probably held specifically only by Levantine Jews who weren't aware yet of the fates of their kin elsewhere in the Islamic Empire. Once they realized what was really going on, they would have changed their minds damn fast. Cyrus is a different case as he literally reestablished the Davidic Kingdom (for a short while at least).
@@mostarac7297 I like the host Mr Lambert, I think he is honest in his approach but his unfamiliarity with this subject does show, for instance the majority of shows on islam are hinting at this idea regarding apocalyptic Jewish messianism, it's relation to Islam etc. It gets an audience to take the most extreme revisions from credible scholarship but this can cause more harm than good for people's understanding of what's more likely. it's like the Christian who now rejects faith, then immediately starts reading the most sensation Christ myth stuff to make themselves comfortable with there apostasy 🤣. It does shows signs of catering to the emotive. I think mythvision would do better to start at the beginning, closely examine each source and start to form some opinions before doing too much speculation. In the opinion of most scholars shoemaker is a little speculative, even he would say that, it's quite far off from mainstream the line of questioning.
I agree. You are much kinder to Lambert than me, though! Sometimes I just can’t have any patience for him. He is definitely little to sensational for my taste, which can come across as dishonest sometimes…
its a shame that his microphone is terrible in every interview with Hoylland
Dr. Hoyland seems still uses his old microphone!
Wait how did the non muslim sources talked about it and he was a muslim 🙂
Watching these guys is amusing as they often provide great entertainment for a lower intellectual audience. Their subtle facial expressions when they mock others can reveal their intellectual capacities. hahahah classic
Is that a rebuttal of this interview? Typical response from Muslim Apologists ☪️
😂
@@inquisitivemind007 rebuttal TH-cam video by writing comments? You clearly in their level I shouldn’t reply but I had to tell u this 😊
@@istaruscanada6572 other people write comments and tell us why they don't agree.
Where's an actual response to the cited claims?
There are many manuscripts that document early Islam with various degree of accordance and emphasis. It does make the topic quite interesting authentic history!
watched this in one go!
Messiah is isa pbuh the new Greek name Jesus umar AS is one of the most important person in Islam history, who created child benefit, pension funds and more charities to support equality for all people
It's Mashich in Original Hebrew not Messiah , YeSHUA not fake isa and according to quran isa is Lord along with allah 9:31 🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
@@elimelek5569 ''They have taken their rabbis and monks as well as the Messiah, son of Mary, as lords besides Allah, even though they were commanded to worship none but One God. There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him. Glorified is He above what they associate ˹with Him˺!'' Surah At-Tawbah 9:31
what were you smoking when you quoted this verse? I was excited aswell .. yikes.
@@priestdamon and who is Allah, is he the idol god housed in the temple of dushara who had three daughters, al-uzah almanat, illat.?
@@martinekanji8537 lmao
@@martinekanji8537No, Allah is the Arabic word which means “The God”
The tribe Umar and Mohammed belonged to were not based in Mecca or Medina that trip was up north 800 miles from Mecca
They were Tayyaye
@@RedWolf75 yes they were 800 miles north of Mecca
They were from quraysh u d8mb and quraysh ruled mecca
@@manofwar2354
No evidence for the existence of the Qurayash. The early documents call them Tayyaye
@@manofwar2354 impossible as Mecca was never known till the 8th century as there no archaeology until the eighth century and there are no writings of Mecca from anywhere until the late eighth century so prof me wrong on archaeology writings of that period proving Mecca was known by anyone.
Forget about talking and deconstructing narratives on both sides which one may seek to look forward to for clarification from scholarly work. But again these are historical events so it has a historical bearing to it. So even if you are looking at the whole episode from a historical perspective there are chains of historical figures and events which dates back much earlier and there are clear chain and scholarly work on both sides. When one doesnt know about the past and ancient history of the place I would suggest they do their homework well before jumping into a discussion with a scholar to dissect history with biased and half baked ideas. This guy doesn't even have clue about the past and ancient history of Arabia. Like who were the settlers thousands of years before Nabateans what did they worship what connection or influence they had how they were different to the contemporary beliefs during that period what connections they had with Egypt, What is the connection of Israelites with Arab and influence of various beliefs during that period , what influence did the Babylonian, Akkadian, Zorastaranian dieties, Egyptian pagan Osiris had on them and on different Jewish sects ( earlier and later) what led to fabricated holy scripture, what role did the pagan, non jew Roman philosopher of egypt had in letting Jews tweak their original Gods message in their scriptures which Joseph pbuh and Moses pbuh preached ,who was Philo what influence did the ancient pagan Greek philosophers had on him what role did the Egyptian Jewish philosopher Philo played with his pagan leanings in distorting Jesus pbuh message and getting the Paulines Christology take into effect later on around 367BC unanimously with the aid of greek and roman philosophers- theologian like Ireneaus, Justin to condition spin doctors & opportunist like Esubeus later to convince Constantine, to pass on the Nicene Creed, which is Pauline bible and Paul's christology. Why was it necessary ? Was that more for dominance and kingship or for faith, if it was for faith then how, many unethical & violent verse were included and fabricated in Bible which Jesus pbuh didn't preach? Once you have a clear picture of all of that, then start probing into the pre Islamic & Islamic Arabia and their figure heads.
Unfortunately our Christian brethren have been indoctrinated ever since the Nicenean accord was imposed. That race with Greco roman pagan roots, white washed as gentile, was a make belief and even to this day, is the only way of inclusivity to refer non jews and have their deviant ways accommodated & established . Jews have more to do with Arabs than to pagan proto Greco-Romans ancient beliefs.
The idea of Zionist cult as collective group took its birth (has nothing to do with Jesus pbuh preaching, Jews or gentiles belonging to Israel or semitism)
It all started way back when Paul's Christology was rolled out and tweaked later with various versions over the centuries as a source to weaponise and othering. No one can even tell with certainty what Paul told and preached and was that written as such in Paul's Bible verbatim what Paul preached, or Paul completely corrupted it intentionally to fit his scheme of things. So truth has been violated long back that's the single point from where dispersion took its effect. It was destined to lead people into the dark period till the same message of Jesus pbuh was brought to people by Quran and Prophet Muhammad pbuh
Umar RA was the 2nd caliph of Islam and not a prophet( that is a different paradigm altogether). He was also an expert Muslim jurist known for his pious and just nature, which earned him the epithet Al-Farooq (the one who distinguishes (between right and wrong)
Bayt Al Maqqadas ( Dome of Rock) is a shrine and NOT a mosque. Al-Aqsa is a Mosque which is a seperate entity within the premises in the same court yard where the shrine is. Now the shrine Bayth Al Maqqadas is important and Holy in Islam because, it has a reference to prophet Mohammad's pbuh ascension to heaven, noted in chapter 53 of the Quran, Surah al-Najm (the star). And the related explanation in hadiths tells prophet's ascent through the seven heavens, and his encounters with previous prophets, including Jesus pbuh and Moses pbuh
Umar RA redeeming Dome of Rock in Jerusalem is an event much later after the revelation of Quran and ascension & back of prophet Muhammad pbuh.
The winds of despair blow harder because of our lack of knowledge of God.
explore-islam.com/muslim-copts-before-muhammad/
th-cam.com/video/7oDaVcRhMhg/w-d-xo.html
"This guy doesn't even have clue about the past and ancient history of Arabia. Like who were the settlers thousands of years before Nabateans what did they worship what connection or influence...."
For your information Robert G Hoyland has written a book on what you just talked about called "Arabia and the Arabs: From the Bronze Age to the Coming of Islam"
@@inquisitivemind007 I am refering to the host //as this guy//. Robert Hoyland must be selectively silent or he has approached his scholarly work from different perspective or isn't interested in relating all the new evidences and research & scholarly work that has been produced recently . It appears he is just feeding the empty head of this host, who is more interested in reacting and playing to the gallery who seems to be having an agenda behind.
I welcome everyone to understand the arabic word "Fitra" if you are inquisitive. Just to let unknown be known all of us without any spec of doubt, believers, non believers, atheist, agnoistic , gnostics etc have that in us. To know more how, why for what, do your research on it, read books, ask experts/ scholars if at all you are interested. I would not prefer to say any further on that. Thank you and peace.
This long passage begins with sense but loses the sense along the way. There has never lived a man named Muhammad the way Islam depicts. And since Muhammad is false EVERYTHING is false
@@mukatacaptain3891 Lack of Proof isnt proof against
@@mukatacaptain3891 Good luck with your typical invincible ignorance fallacy or ad lapidem fallacy. Read.... Iqra bismi rabbika Allazi khalaq.
The host’s whole interviewer’s style is awful.He almost keeps putting words into Hoyland’s mouth. You have to listen very carefully to actually understand that Hoyland is not really claiming with a strong conviction what the host is insinuating (the whole interview style is awful) - he insinuates something and then he keeps thanking him and keeps asking him the same thing like he is trying to get him to agree to his point of view. The host talks too much with an agenda. I find that dishonest. I know he is trying to gain patrons and subscribers. But don’t be so relentless. Like Dr. Sean Anthony says - The problem with revisionism is that it creates more questions than it answers. Not that islamic traditional accounts shouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt. And Hoyland is honest, he is just raising questions but is not necessarily committed to any viewpoint. When he does NOT find much proof for something he says so. I think he learned well from late teacher’s mistakes (Patricia Crone ‘s mistakes in her early career). But I think this leaves him vulnerable to misuse by people who have religious polemical and political agendas like in this case, where people partially quote him, and turn his questions into definitive claims. He is really just raising questions and NOT making definitive claims,
If you want to see an awful interviewer then go and see that boring individual called Paul Williams from Blogging Theology. With Derek, you have to remember that it's been only a year since he has started looking into Islam compared to Christianity which he has been doing for years. It's understandable he is going to have some questions prepared beforehand. Derek has no agenda as he does the same with Christanity aswell so you can't get anyone more fairer than him.
I agree Derek is same with Christians but he is biased, he still has an agenda (mission like he said). He is sort of an atheist proselytizer. He is not neutral and it shows. I wish he would stop pushing his views and let the guests just speak, yes challenge them with arguments, and then letaudience make up their mind. He is trying too hard to debunk everything with oversimplifying explanations. Let the audience draw their conclusions.
@@inquisitivemind007 of course you'd be Against Paul.
@Grey Ralph I'm not a Christian so it doesn't bother me what holes you find in Christianity.
Paul- who?
Haile Selassie
Ras Tafarianism connection is interesting to connect Ethiopia to Jamaica.
@@patricianoel7782 Yes, and the Rastafari movement borrows from the Vedic and hindu tradition also. Peculiar blend.
@@M-i-k-a-e-l But they are NOT caste minded like Hindus do following the Rg Veda, where castes are defined by birth (there are many similar names for caste: jathi, gothra, varna etc, not coined by British colonists or Christian missionaries)
@@justapointofview7625 Yes, thank you for info.
What about the date of most ancient manuscript of old and new testament can you make a program on your oodcast with Biblical Scholar.
Who will ascend the mountain of the Lord?
Who may stand in His holy place?
The one who has clean hands and a pure heart
Who does not trust in an idol
Or swear by a false god
They will receive blessing
From the Lord
And vindication
From God their Savior
He Saidina Omar Al Khattab
We should not confuse things Jesus (Isa) is the Messiah
The other figure Omar is not the Messiah
He was a righteous guided person in Arabic is known as Mahdi
I thought many times about the mosque as the third temple
Because it stands there almost 1400 years I believe,longer than first and second temple..
And is pure monotheistic no statues inside people worship the GOD of Abraham plus they belong to the family of Ismael
It’s just petty that they don’t allow Jews to pray.
I hope that will change soon in peaceful way
It is so complicated issue
That peace of land it was promised to Beni Israel but the covenant was broken when they tried to kill Jesus
The gentiles controlled holy land and destroyed the second temple like Jesus said.
Those Roman gentiles later on converted to a corrupted Christian form.
When Muslims conquered holy land it was not controlled by Jews
So the conquest was seen as monotheistic victory pure monotheistic.
So are the Muslims to blame about Temple Mount
I don’t think so because they didn’t destroy the temple.
And if they try to destroy the mosque I am shore that this will trigger a big war
Because it will be seen as traitors of Islam
I think only return of Jesus
can rectify things GOD willing
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
For Omar, Jewish and christian is the people of the Book, Or the people was once in the right path of the Oneness God, but not for the time being Omar was there, that's why Omar came to jerussalem to restore The holly place of Oneness God to Its original usage under the truelly Oneness God which is Islam, and he took the temple of Solomon to Its original place for worshiping Oneness God and purify it from worshiping messenger like Iesu(s) or misleading Jewish from Its original teaching of Prophet in the past, we moslem believe in all prophet. They all teach the same thing, but stupid and greedy people start to misleading people for their own ego/ political/economic interest.
Infuriating…. Host volume at different settings from guest.
Is it impossible to prepare better to these streams especially when you get somebody like Hoyland on your channel. The sound is awfull and I'm missing words
It's the professors internet connection.
No, the Messiah was Ibn Tumart, hailing from the snow cast Atlas mountains of Morocco, founder of the glorious AlMohad dynasty.
This clown kept saying the Armenian accounts, The Armenian wouldn’t know what happened in Jerusalem in 630s even if he did he wouldn’t mention Omer because Omer was such a great man who’s a Muslim
The Armenian got his information from escaped eye witness prisoners-of-war you clown 🤡
Armenians have been in Jerusalem since the 300's.
@@inquisitivemind007 You tool , Armenia got conquered by early Muslims but it’s nowhere near Jerusalem
@@aos5929 p239-240 "...It is plain then that Sebeos is making use of a pre-existing written source in this first section of the final part of his history. A place of composition in Palestine, probably in Jerusalem, may be inferred from the focus of interest. It will therefore be designated the Palestine Source. Sebeos marks the transition to it from the Rshtuni Source with a brief editorial introduction..."
unfortunately the quality is bad
Its the writting that made the difference.
Muslim asked other faith to pay jeziah which is small amount of money in order to protect them and they can’t they font to have to pay it and even sometimes t’écuma font as them . Jeziah is kind of tax
Tax is when someone pays regardless of their religion. Jizya is a penalty for not accepting Islam - it's not the same.
First qibla was not jerusalem.....Actually it was just for sometime in medina
Fārūq literally means "the one who distinguishes between right and wrong."
Similar to a Judge?
Go and look in Arthur Jeffery's Vocabulary of the Quran as to what Faruq means. Search for the word Furqan.
@@inquisitivemind007 my friend so European knows what Arabic word means more than the Arabs themselves
@@MohamedMohamed-ws7mq To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007):
"Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error."
Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007 that is such a big stretch and I find it arrogant to assume that every Arabic word has an Aramaic root they are two different languages. Anyone who knows Arabic can easily tell you that al faruq means the discriminator
Great preparation Derek. 😇
Conquering is not a measurement of good Muslims ruling, else UK occupying majority of the world is a better Islamic achievements. Which is not.
Indonesia adopting Islam is the way of Islam to be spread.
The same Andalusia adopting Islam before its invasion by Umayyads.
Jesus is the messiah in Islam no body else
Mohammed said if anyone was to become a Prophet after me it would be Omar , Omar was a great man by all standarts of messurment.
I agree with that
@@inquisitivemind007 If you believe Mohammed was a Prophet , and God alone is the only one worthy of worship.
And you believe in the angels , and books , and prophets like Moses Abraham Isaac etc. , and believe in the last day and in Gods destiny . Then just repeat this and you are a Muslim:
" There is noone worthy of worship except God and Mohammed is His Messenger " now you're a Muslim.
@@truthoverfalsehood__8757 There is none worthy of worship except God/Allah/Hashem etc. Muhammad is the messenger of God for the Arabs only and not mankind. The Quran is the book revealed to Muhammad and it doesn't nullify the Torah. Both books 📚 are valid today. Am I still Muslim?
@@inquisitivemind007 Everything you said is correct , the Torah is still valid and true it was not changed like 99% of the Muslims falsely believe now. However Mohammed was send to everybody , and the Torah is still valid and you should still be hebrew and not arabize yourself.
@@truthoverfalsehood__8757 That sent to everybody is a later doctrine that's been added and couldn't have been something Muhammad taught because firstly from the Jewish perspective he eats non-Kosher food (camel meat), secondly his qibla is towards Mecca: no Jew is going to downgrade Jerusalem to no 3 and have Mecca as their qibla. Would you accept the Mahdi to come if he changed the qibla to Istanbul?
Or did Umar build the prophesied “abomination of desolation” that would sit in place of the temple. It was prophesied in Daniel and Jesus stated it multiple times.
@@Halal__Hitler that’s one view. It was there for how long? How long has the mosque been there?
@Orange Man Bad It's not a Mosque. It's a shrine.
@Xhorxhe Etxeberria Bayt al-Maqdis comes from Beit ha-Mikdash which is the Jewish ✡️ Temple. Muslim Apologists lie when they say it means Jerusalem. We know what early Muslims called Jerusalem, which was Aelia, as it's written on the back of some coins that says Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
@@inquisitivemind007 Aelia Capitalina
Buraq Obama needs to see this!
Remove music
Shalom, Salam, Peace.
Algebra Of God:
No Needs Or No Desires.
Thus No Slumber Or Fatigue.
Thus No Family Or Partners.
Algebra Of Creation:
Has Needs And Has Desires.
Needs Slumber And Is Affected By Fatigue.
Has A Family Connection And Has Partners.
Thus Jesus Son Of Mary, Was The Devout Messiah, Servant Of God.
Muhammad was Umar, Muhammad only Messianic title which mean The Praised One
This title use by Saducces Jews in Yemen 100 years before Islam.
Ya I been thinking the same and I think Umar made up Muhammad and couldn't wait till he had his made up person die off.
Btw nobody actually saw this Muhammad and was had a small tent 🎪 over him wherever he went and only Umar could go in the tent and resite what he says. (Btw it was alot easier to fool people back then)
Messiah is not the prophet muhammad, it is Jesus or a title to mahdi "rightly guided" . The prophet muhammad is no messiah he was the seal of the prophets, nor did he claim to be a messiah. But it is interesting, i think they were waiting on a prophet mentioned in isiah 47
@@AkramSaheb Roman historian Theopanes tells us that some Jews ✡️ thought Muhammad was the Messiah.
loooooooooooooooool the most authentic historical sources that have ever been recorded are exactly the islamic sources. even orientatlists including Gustave Le Bon recognize how accurate they are. you want to leave what intellectuals have concluded and live in an alternate universe ? I'm not even surprised in this age of delusional self-identifying and spread of conspiracies. I bet you're a fan of joe rogan's pseudo-theories too
What? Lol No!
I couldn't hear a word he said. Too muffled.
Apocalyptic thinking isn’t peculiar to Abrahamic religions. The Vikings had Ragnarok, and the Hindus have Kali Yuga.
eh they are different. in Norse and Hindu "mythology" they are just end of a cycle where as in Abrahamic faith its a whole new shift to ultimate reality which goes on forever.
I think it's in the Persian religion of Zoroaster as well - with the ultimate victory of the good principle (Ahura Mazda) over the evil forces.(Ahriman.)
I think it's a common thing to believe in some sort of an "end of the world as we know it" in many Indo-European myths, this belief was adopted by the Jews from the Zoroastrians.
@@dust001 Zoroastrianism came after Abraham.
Ragnorok was added because of Christianity
Fitnah
Ini kebenaran islam bro, muhammad di quran itu gelar mesianik yg dibuat oleh orang" Yahudi saduki di Yaman abad ke 6 yg menantikan kedatangan mesias
Abad ke 7 ada orang yg menggunakan gelar mesianik ini untuk menyebarkan agama
Fascinating
Tin can audio is atrocious for my earbuds…
If I need my car fixed I take it to the mechanic not the dry cleaner's, If I'm sick I got to a Doctor not to a Lawyer. If I want to learn about Islam I go to a Muslim Scholar not a Non-Muslim. Seriously this is why most of the things people like this say is wrong, as much as they have studied it was limited, they did not study the whole Quran, starting with a complete understanding of the Arabic language... And they certainly did not study all the Hadith books. Im not a scholar and I found so many holes in this.
Following your train of thought: next time you want to learn about Christianity, go to Christians only and not Bart Ehrmen or Muslims.
Why was the Shi'ite perspective not mentioned?
They don't matter
the shia perspective is very vulgar towards umar. this is supposed to be a mature discussion about Umar
Hi Derek! Thank you for this conversation, it is indeed really interesting!
However, I just wanted to point out how Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) himself felt about Umar. You seem to have been familiar with the Sunni-Shia narrative and one thing you might as well dig into in your podcast is that even Sunnis can't deny that Umar was so passionate about his Torah and his Jewish beliefs despite his "conversion" to Islam. In fact, there are many examples of how the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) rejected Umar when he came with his book and warned people against him. Shiites strongly insist that Umar pretended to convert to Islam, when in fact he was following the orders of his Jewish teachers. Kaab Akbar is the clearest example of a distorter of Islamic teachings. Also, he constantly praises Umar for being his best student (at a time when Kaab himself was still a Jew, and Umar supposedly converted to Islam). It seems a little strange to me that a Jewish teacher praises the "new Muslim" (Umar) for his knowledge of the Torah. It is highly possible that Umar was fulfilling his duties as a Jew and promoting his interests rather than representing Islam or fulfilling his covenant to Prophet (saw). There is too much evidence of Jewish customs to be brought into Islam by the mob of Umar, and I think it is worth looking at alternative narrative of looking at Umar as a Jew instead of a Muslim.
Peace, thank you for your efforts!
That's interesting. Is there evidence in Shia literature of Jewish connections with Umar? If so what are they and their references?
This is clear insult to prophet Mohammad(as).
He knew who was mumin and who was munafiq.
Be careful when you say something about sahaba(ra).
Sister Fatima Maryam
Umar ibn khattab radiallahu 'anhu is from Bani 'Adi one of the ten branches of Quraysh.
Prophet Muhammad is from Banu Hashim another branch of Quraysh that are the lineage of ishmael the son of abraham PBUT all.
Also father-in-law of the prophet and a senior companion. That the prophet ask Allah to convert one of the one oh is closest to Allah. Please Read
Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3681
Book 49, Hadith 77
English translation : Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 368
How can he be Jewish???
But Abdullah ibn Saba' was a Yemenite Jew from the Arab Himyar tribe he had exaggerated reverence for Ali radiallahu 'anhu his followers are (the Saba'iyya) that Shia tradition came from.
Just to be clear I am a direct Descendant of Ali radiallahu 'anhu with both will document lineage and DNA proof so As a Syed (that is raised knowing that I'm no different than any other human) I know my family.
I have seen the whole video that is all just theories with no clear facts just a made-up research from a translation of translation of a translation to prove a non-Muslim version of a well-known and documented Islamic figure Umar ibn khattab radiallahu 'anhu.
But We just respect their opinions as we must do with all others but we base our beliefs on actual evidence historical and scientific.
@omar alahdal just theories with no clear facts? Such as what? And when you mentioned the research is a translation of a translation of a translation. Are you referring to the 4 Arabic manuscripts that were shown? I have never seen so many original manuscripts in one interview before - a pure treat for those who are interested in academia.
You lie and slander and then go as far as calling for one of the most influential people from the religion of Islam "worthy of being looked as a Jew?". Fear Allah and the last day. Ali (R.A) loved the people you slander against. He stood by them, he worked under them. May Allah Guide you as well as I.
Interesting Arabian and the Arabs book have old pagan Arab Gods and pre-modern Arabic script, called Old south Arabian script, Arabs have few script before Islam in Jordan, Yemen and Hijaz region, Nabatean Arab script become today modern arabic, used in Quran and today Arabic
It’s always funny to see people talking about Islam and Islamic figures without having a proper Islamic education. The mental acrobatics are bewildering, considering a simple thing as Umar’s nickname “Al-Farouk”, which is a word in Arabic that means “The differentiator”, that is the one who differentiates between truth and falsehood, but no you and your esteemed guest think it’s borrowed from Syriac just to make up a story around it. Pathetic.
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007):
"Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error."
Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007
First of all, فرقاب is not an Arabic word and it is nowhere in the Quran. If it’s written فرقاب in your source then you should discard that source. The word in 8:29 is فرقان.
Second of all the Quran is an Arabic revelation, it was revealed to an Arabic prophet, therefore if a word in the Quran has an Arabic meaning, it makes absolutely no sense trying to get a foreign meaning of a word and force fitting that meaning in the middle of an otherwise Arabic text. Imagine if I open an English book and find one word, say “bowl” and claim that the word “bowl” in Arabic means urine and then I go ahead and substitute “urine” in place of every bowl in that text.
Finally, Umer’s nickname is فاروق it comes from the root فرق، which means to separate or differentiate. Open an Arabic dictionary and look it up, it’s not that hard.
@@rashadabdelrahman6555 I think you need to see Derek's interview with Marijn van Putten called "Are there foreign words in the Quran?"
@@inquisitivemind007 my friend that is besides the point. My question is, if the Quran was revealed in Arabic, to an Arab prophet, among Arabs, and if a word in it has a meaning in Arabic, why should we look for its meaning in other languages? Can you please answer that.
Also, I never said that there are no foreign words in Arabic. Muslim scholars differ in this matter, some claim that words like جهنم and إبليس are borrowed from other languages but these words are proper nouns. Other Muslim scholars insist that these words have their origins in Arabic.
@Rashad Abdelrahman because if you look at the interview and the passage in Tabari, the name Faruq was mentioned by an ex-Jew. It's also mentioned on p189 which says "...According to Salim: When `Umar entered Syria, a Jew from Damascus met him and said: "Peace be upon you, O Faruq! You are the master of Jerusalem. By God, you will not return before God conquers Jerusalem!..." So one asks oneself did this ex-Jew call Umar this title based on the meaning of Redeemer in his native language which was probably Hebrew or what you claim. The answer lies at the location at where Umar was when he was called this name which was at the foundation stone where the Jewish ✡️ Temple one stood aswell as him riding on a donkey 🫏 afterwards at some point. After all a donkey doesn't travel faster than a horse or carry more load than a camel so why downgrade your transportation means?
The Cannibals of Mu'arra! What do non Muslims sources say about that?
Jerusalem is land of many prophets. The 3rd blessed city in Islam and as gate to heaven in isra miraj and as the capital city of end time, where Jesus establish his gov and antichrist will be defeated.
11:20 In my village almost every body rides on donkeys. I think they are all holy :D
There is a difference between riding on a donkey and seeing yourself as just a passenger 🫏 and riding on the Messiah's donkey 🫏 and seeing yourself as the Redeemer.
Not likely as Jesus is in the family-bloodline with King David 😊❤😎👍
Don't take this westerns series
Dome of the Rock was built after Muhammad died 80 years even in the Koran doesn't say Muhammad went to heaven just stories he was dreaming🤔
The Quran does speak about the night journey. Why talk boldly as if you've studied Quran.
The Quran never mention who is the servant, and we never know where is the location of Masjidil Haram and Masjidil Aqsa. Everything we know is only based on muslims tradition
@@DusTman761 the Quran does not mention who is the servant ? Are you forreal ? If the Quran is talking about the night journey then who else would be the servant ?
@@Provision600 read verse 2, its talking about moses
@@DusTman761 it says "and we sent Moses"
And you just said it doesn't mention who the servant is.
So are you arguing just argue?
NO!
Imagine ,this lecture were given by David wood
@@inquisitivemind007 lampart did not made any strong claims ,just opened up questions.
He stayed away from Islam but focused on umar RA.
I don't know how you conclude islam is beaten ,more Islam is further substantiated
@@sunset2.00 because if you read what happened in Muslims sources and then compare that to the James-Howard Johnston, Stephen Shoemaker and this interview it's clear someone is lying -- they both can't be right and it's pretty clear to me that classical Muslim historians are the liars.
@@inquisitivemind007 You have to give an alternative theory of what happened rather than just cast doubt on some of the uncertain aspects of the muslim native because there bound to be some due to time .
You have to show your theory of what happened has more backing as per evidence for me to consider adopting it .
Right now it is rational for me adopt the muslim narrative of what happened.
Because only casting doubt is a race to the bottom and not productive at all like casting doubt on atheist morality rather than saying moral nihilism is a more rational position to take .
I don't have the time or capability to judge every doubt to verify but I can judge the soundness of the overall theory of history or moral system withe supported evidence.
That is why you should think this way too.Give a theory of what happened and give evidences for the overall situation and give arguments why it is more rational position to take.
That would be comical. I don't think anyone would consider him to be a serious scholar.
that info i got it from a rabbi
Yes but Bayt al-Maqdis doesn't mean the city of Jerusalem or the Temple Mount area. It means the Jewish Temple 🕍 as it comes from the Hebrew Beit HaMikdash
I find it strange that the Christian writer Did not Refer to them as Muslims. Hagarenes and Ishmaelites why is that.
Because the definition of a Muslim today wasn't same as it was 1400 years ago. See Fred Donner's book Muhammad and the Believers.
@@inquisitivemind007 l heard that name Already.
Hagar was the Egyptian mother of Ismael. And Ishmael is the son of Hagar and Abraham.
@Xhorxhe Etxeberria This is what it says in Tabari Volume 2 p128-129
"....According to al-Ilarith-Ibn Sa'd-HishAm-his father: Abraham migrated from Babylon to Syria, and Sarah came to him and offered herself to him, so he married her and took herwith him. At that time he was thirty-seven years old, and hecame to Harran and stayed there for a while. Then he came toJordan and stayed there for a while. Then he went to Egypt andstayed there for a while; then went back to Syria and settled in the *land of Beersheba* between Iliya (Jerusalem) and Palestine. He dug a well and built a house of prayer, but then some of the people of the land harmed him, so he left them and went to live between al-Ramlah and Iliya . He dug a well there and stayed there, his wealth and servants already having become abundant. He was the first to show hospitality to guests , the first to crumble bread and soak it in broth, and the first to see white hair. The children born to Abraham were Ishmael, his eldest, whose mother was a Copt named Hagar; and Isaac, who was blind andwhose mother was Sarah bt. Bethuel b. Nahor b . Serug b. Reu b. Peleg b. Eber b. Shelach b. Arpachshad b. Shem b . Noah...."
You're telling me Hagar travelled 1400km from Beersheba to Mecca by foot carrying a baby in the heat?
It is like western in medival times calling muslims moors ,sarcens ,muhammadins
It all have same meaning
You are weird
Christian apologists and their mental gymnastics are hilarious 😂😂
The third temple is the doom of the rock abdalmlk bulid it according to zodic
The reason why people don't see it as the Jewish Temple is because it isn't rectangular in shape as shown in pictures of Solomon’s Temple. What people have to understand is that the holy bit is the rock 🪨 and not the building which doesn't matter what shape it is whether it's rectangular or circular.
👏🙂
Wow very interesting
You act too happy-go-lucky for a documentary.Don,t get too excited bro,calm down;this is not Walt Disney!
When you doubt any sahaba, you doubt the judgment of Prophet Mohammad(sa).
Allah informed him who was munafiq.
Any insult to sahaba, is insult to Prophet Mohammad(sa).
Prophet (sa) said all my sahabas are like stars in the dark night. If anybody follow any sahaba, the will be successful.
@Tubba if you doubt a prophet of God, you doubt God.
A prophet don't say anything from themself.
Allah clearly told to follow prophet Mohammad. Doubting on prophet Mohammad will cause your Faith invalid.
@@safiul1930 Muhammad was a pedophile, so he wasn't a prophet of God.
@Tubba The prophet didnt make it an article of faith to dip the fly and throw in before drinking, he said that the wings of the fly has a disease and the other has the cure. If anyone didn’t want to do it, its fine.
However, you should know that research was done on that subject, and promising results was gathered. For example, Professor Juan Alvarez Bravo at the University of Tokyo, said: “We will witness a rapid treatment for many diseases, which consists of extracts from flies”
Moreover, some researchers from Auburn University found a protein in the fly’s saliva, which could accelerate the process of wound healing and chronic skin cracking. In addition, researchers at Stanford University have found a substance in the fly that could potentially improve the immune system of a human.
So, would I do it? Yes, even if there wasn’t a scientific research behind it.
@@safiul1930the Gods don't need of things such as prophets or so called holy books. Abrahamic religions are such a lie.
@@xiuhcoatl4830 did you ever spend some time on Quran?
Give it a try. Watch and listen some Quran with translation.
Yesterday a Christian blogger became Muslim after long research. His name Bobby. His TH-cam channel name is "Bobby's perspective".
Thanks.
Hi long time no c since that prank u played on yor viewers regarding the apostate sheikh that booty,well 4get it nice to c u again.😅
Messiah was allah muhammad was his prophet
Try researching the definition of Messiah, before you tell ppl it's a man.
Christ, the Messiah is IN YOU... there is no man in me, just the OIL of the Anointing
Tell Theopanes 817AD that. He was the one who reported that some Jews thought Muhammad was the Messiah.
@@inquisitivemind007 and can one believe everything that is written in a book? For if one lies with their tongue they will surely lie with a pen.
But that would mean reading the Bible literally which Paul calls the letter and the letter is death. But what is unseen, or the spirit or intent of the letter, leads to life. I Am with the latter.
I travail in pain until Christ be formed in you. Just like it was revealed in Paul, not to Paul.
The Bible speaks for itself. Christ potential is in everyone... it's a spiritual birth.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit.
@In-Powered Theopanes is a Roman historian writing ✍️ in Greek. Why would he make this up that some Jews ✡️ thought Muhammad was the Messiah? You have to remember that Mecca to the Jews ✡️ is like what the Vatican 🇻🇦 is to the Muslims - nothing. They were interested in one thing only: Jerusalem their holy city.
@@inquisitivemind007 tbh, I can't speak for him. It very well may be true, that some Jews believed that. But I am not interested in what some ppl think. Nothing against you personally. I am simply clarifying the truth. Christ is not a man born or yet to be born. The savior is within each individual.
So for a theosophist to claim what 'some' Jews thought, is simply misleading without further context.
Wishing you well, this is just a discussion.
@@inquisitivemind007 btw, Jerusalem in the mid east is not the holy city. Jerusalem above, which is the higher mind, is the holy city. The only thing holy about the location is the bullet holes.
Galatians 4 for reference
Muhammed is a composite figure of Jesus Christ and Umar.
Muhammed is not a name but a title meaning "praised one".
Jesus was the first Praised One.
Umar was his successor in the minds of the early Arabs.
Alawites are the only Muslims who know the truth about Islam.
False. Only jews state that Muhammad was a title and bang heads on the wailing wall
@@greyralph1637 It's not just said by Jews at all.
@@joecurran2811 can you show me Al Muhammad as a title in any arabic tribe of the old?
@@greyralph1637 Academics commonly agree on this.
@@joecurran2811 yeah, your own imaginary academics.
Prophet Muhammad SAW was a messiah for the Jewish Ppl in a very REAL sense. Umer RA was never considered the Messiah.
That’s insane.
Muhammad/The Praise One was messianic tittle
@@DusTman761 never, his title was Al Farooq. Muhammad is a name, not a title. Only jews would twist it while bashing heads on wailing wall
@@greyralph1637 and the 2 people in Tabari who called him Faruq was a Jew and it has to do with Jerusalem and a non-Jew and it has to do with the foundation stone where the Jewish ✡️ Temple once stood.
@@inquisitivemind007 as if Tabari quoting everything regardless of Isnad makes him reliable in every bit. I dare say, You wouldn’t take Tabari's account when it won't suit you. Go on, I can feel the fire.
@@greyralph1637 you're telling me Tabari doesn't know anything about isnaad? About checking the source and making sure where you got your information from is accurate?
I AM CONSIDERING writing a book about Western Civilization using non-European sources (there are plenty). I am surveying here: how many people will find it credible? 😂
You can as long as you find *corroboration* then it has credibility
@@inquisitivemind007 Corroboration by whom? How is this guest corroborating anything? He is using single sources from non-Islamic sources selectively.
@QabilAGhor Rebuilding the Jewish Temple he showed Ibn Sa'd (Muslim source) and enteries in Theopanes, Agapius, Michael the Syrian, Sebeos etc. (Non-Muslim source). The Dome of the Rock being the Jewish Temple he showed a manuscript from Al-Biruni (Muslim source) and a painting in the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican (Non-Muslim source) aswell as a Jewish one. Also if there is Jewish and Christian corroboation on something then this means that it must have happened otherwise how can two different communities record something that didn't.
@@inquisitivemind007 I thought the main topic was whether Umar even visited Jerusalem. Our guest here doubts it for no good reason! Even though he mentions a non-Muslim source (Syriac chronical written in 750 AD) which corroborates exactly that, he doesn't believe it because according to him it was written 150 years after the event. Umar died in 644 AD, so actually it was 106 years, which in my opinion is not a long time, considering how few books were written in those days. Then there are Muslim sources, with a chain of 'isnad, which also corroborates the same story. So, why should he doubt it?
Muslims have NEVER claimed that Umar was some kind of a Messiah. So, it's a foolish non-issue brought up by the host. I don't know of ANY Muslim who think that just because Umar rode a donkey, somehow he was a Messiah or a Messianic figure. This is truly laughable.
The guest also questions the title, "al-Farooq" and cannot even acknowledge that it's Arabic, and not Hebrew. He calls it "Semitic, but why not Arabic? It's also a proper Arabic name and simply means one who distinguishes (right from wrong)."
The problem with this video is that Judeo-Christian themes/prophecies are being mixed up with Islamic history in a way that is weird, to say the least.
@@inquisitivemind007 Early Islamic sources, including Ibn Saad, simply say Prophet Muhammad's spirit was taken to Jerusalem and from there onwards to high heavens. But none of the Companions of the Prophet or other Muslims knew that the Temple Mount was the site that he visited. As discussed in this video. Umar had to ask Sophronius where the site could have been for the Temple.
As we all know by now, it was the Roman Fort Antonia, and the Temple could not possibly have situated there. Israeli archeologists even found a Roman coin at the bottom of one of the walls during excavations, so they could not have been built at the time of Solomon.
Actually, the Temple has never been found, because both Josephus and the Bible say that it was leveled to the ground. There are lots of TH-cam videos on this. Even good Jews know this for a fact but won't admit it because that would mean ceding the entire Temple Mount site to Palestinians.
By the way, Israeli archeologists have recently uncovered the site of Melchizedek's Temple, which is far older, but after so much tunneling and digging, no evidence has been found that Solomon's Temple stood at the Temple Mount.
What a joke
Omar is a controversial figure in Islam, for many Muslims, although main stream Sunni Islam (followers of the de facto rulers) considers him a main figure in Islam .
Islam does not promote quantity of followers, but stresses on Facts and the true few followers.
where did you learn that from?
@@muhammadnursultan9704 where did you learn that from?
Answer, in the Quran and Sunnah Omar is acoward in wars (run away in battles with the prophet) Omar contradicted the prophet in many cases, he hales Abusufyan (the head of anti Islamic side of Quraish )
The Quran is 'full' of bad stories of the contemporaries of the prophet where Omar had them around his rule . Omar bad stories are in the Quran w/o being named in person.
Omar Ibn Alkhatab is the true model-example for ISIS.
If one knows the Prophet's personality as the mercy for the entire world he would find Omar is the opposite of that in many cases
Umar the first Zionist 😮😅
Actually Muhammad was the first to talk in Zionist language as shown not just in Armenian text 🇦🇲 Sebeos 660AD but in Syriac text called Chronicle 1234AD aswell.
@@inquisitivemind007 I looked thru your channel,. I am shia ,. So a lot of the people you bash I agree with,. I’m sorry the Sunnis hurt you bro,. So what is you point was Muhammad (saws) a jew or auntie Semite?,. What argument are you going with,.
@Jaleel42 بذرة التفاحBased on Tabari's account, when Umar signed the treaty with Sophronius, Umar swore on the Book of the Covenant, that is, the Torah. That treaty is displayed to this day at Umar's mosque.
@@vicmath1005 sounds right he used to argue with Muhammad (saws) using the torah,. As well,.
@@jaleel42 that person hates muslims both sunni and shia. you shias believe in Muhammad as a prophet too idk why youd rather ally with a complete anti Muslim rather than a Sunni Muslim
😂
The mosque wasn’t built when Muhammad was a live so how could he have visited Jerusalem when it wasn’t built time traveled ?
Exactly!
Masjid in Arabic refers to a place of worship be it a mosque, a Jewish temple or a church. In verse 17:1 masjid is mentioned.
LIMITLESS in His glory is He who transported His servant by night from the Inviolable House of Worship [at Mecca] to the Remote House of Worship [, at Jerusalem] - the environs of which We had blessed -so that We might show him some of Our symbols: for, verily, He alone is all-hearing, all-seeing
That’s a fair translation of the verse. The verse has nothing to do with the mosque built later on when the Muslims kicked out the Christian Romans during the time of the second khalifa Umar.
This is not the one looooool this is quba al sakhr
The mosque the prophet went is temple under this mosque
@@manofwar2354 there was no temple as Umar was the one who rebuilt it as shown in the interview.
@@inquisitivemind007 no it existed and recosruct it
It is holy place even for jews want to destroy the mosque on it
The mosque is located on the southern part of the Temple Mount or Haram al-Sharif, an enclosure expanded by King Herod the Great beginning in 20 BCE during his reconstruction of the Second Jewish Temple.[29] The mosque resides on an artificial platform that is supported by arches constructed by Herod's engineers to overcome the difficult topographic conditions resulting from the southward expansion of the enclosure into the Tyropoeon and Kidron valleys.[30] During the late Second Temple period, the present site of the mosque was occupied by the Royal Stoa, a basilica running the southern wall of the enclosure.[30] The Royal Stoa was destroyed along with the Temple during the siege of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE.
It was once thought that Emperor Justinian's "Nea Ekklesia of the Theotokos", lit. 'the New Church of the God-Bearer' and commonly known as the Nea Church, dedicated to the God-bearing Virgin Mary, consecrated in 543, was situated where al-Aqsa Mosque was later constructed. However, remains identified as those of the Nea Church were uncovered in the south part of the Jewish Quarter in 1973.[31][32]
Analysis of the wooden beams and panels removed from the mosque during renovations in the 1930s shows they are made from Lebanese cedar and cypress. Radiocarbon dating gave a large range of ages, some as old as 9th century BCE, showing that some of the wood had previously been used in older buildings.[33] However, reexamination of the same beams in the 2010s gave dates in the Byzantine period.[34]
During his excavations in the 1930s, Robert Hamilton uncovered portions of a multicolor mosaic floor with geometric patterns, but did not publish them.[35] The date of the mosaic is disputed: Zachi Dvira considers that they are from the pre-Islamic Byzantine period, while Baruch, Reich and Sandhaus favor a much later Umayyad origin on account of their similarity to a mosaic from an Umayyad palace excavated adjacent to the Temple Mount's southern wall.[35]
Read Daneial 9:24-27
We know for sure that abomination desolation was at year 135 CE {{ temple of Jupiter in top of the temple}} so add 70 weeks = 490 lunar years=475 solar years
135+475=610CE , at that year prophet Muhammad pbuh start to receive revelations from Allah .
I'm afraid you've been lied to and Muhammad is not the prophet mentioned in the scriptures for 2 reasons. 1) He eats non-Kosher food i.e. camel 🐫 meat and his qibla is towards Mecca and not Jerusalem. Had his qibla stayed as Jerusalem and he didn't eat non-Kosher food then I would have said yes he is the prophet mentioned in their scriptures.
The only time in history that an idol (( temple of Jupiter)) was built over thr second temple is year 135 CE.
If there was another idol erected in the top of the second temple any other time , please inform me
Beside , Rabbi Abramson testified this prophecy ((Dan 9:24-27)) and applied to prophet Muhammad pbuh , I have the video, I can give you the link if you want to 🙂
@Hesham Mohamed believing Muhammad was sent to the Arabs only and believing he was sent mankind is not the same thing. Muhammad is definitely not the one mentioned in the Toran for 2 reasons 1) he eats non-Kohser food (camel meat) 2) his qibla is towards Mecca and not Jerusalem.
My comment had been deleted !!!
I gave you a link of a discussion between Adnan and rabbi Ben Abrahamson (( Arabian prophet p2)) from 00:40-1:36 the rabbi applied Dan 9 to prophet Muhammad , with some miscalculation , may be due to the uncomfort of public presence and noise in Hyde park.
So , who deleted my comment and why !?🙂
@Hesham Mohamed links are deleted by TH-cam - it's not Derek. Even with me if I reply and post a link my comment will be deleted automatically by TH-cam. Muhammad is not the prophet mentioned in Daniel because 1) Muhammad eats non-Kosher food I.e. camel meat 2) his qibla is towards Mecca and not Jerusalem anymore. Would you accept the Mahdi who is to come if he eats non-halal food and says the qibla is now towards Beirut?
Thanks Derek. You were asking very interesting questions. It should be clear that Islam is the by-product of the Sasanian-Byzantine war of 602-628 and it should be studied in that context, in which certain Arabs and Jews were for various reasons involved. The Islamic literature has made every effort to hide this fact. Now an Arab-Jewish coalition to conquer Jerusalem ? Yes, it is explicitly mentioned in the Quran: وَ لَقَدْ كَتَبْنَا فِی الزَّبُوْرِ مِنْۢ بَعْدِ الذِّكْرِ اَنَّ الْاَرْضَ یَرِثُهَا عِبَادِیَ الصّٰلِحُوْنَ, that is the Quran says based on Jewish texts you guys will inherit the promised land , exactly as Sebeos says! But the question is whether this coalition refers to the first time Jerusalem was captured with the Persians involvement or the second time in 630's?
I think when Jerusalem fell to the Persians and this news reached Muhammad that it was under Jewish control - as stated in the Jewish text Sefer Zerubbabel - it was then that Muhammad started having his night journey to Jerusalem as he thought Nehemiah ben Hushiel had rebuilt the temple. When Jerusalem was captured back by the Romans and this news reached Muhammad and his Constitution of Medina community, it was at this point that Operation Holy Land was initiated as shown in the Stephen Shoemaker interview. The goal was simple: to remove all Romans from the Holy Land and restore all temple practices.
Why not assuming Muhammad was in Jerusalem and expelled together with Jews when they were expelled by the Persians?Then they retreated to Medina and planned the operation. (The Hijra from Jerusalem to Medina.) Mecca was irrelevant. The Quran’s environment matches Jerusalem more than Mecca.
@Travel Europe What about the manuscript shown at 32:47 which is the earliest mention of Mecca in a non-Muslim source called Edessene Apocalypse dated 692AD. Mecca must have come into the picture 📸 somehow.
Not sure if the name Mecca has appeared before mid eighth century. But in any case Mecca came to the picture for various reasons including giving the new empire and its religion a distinctive Arabian identity.
@Travel Europe how did all of the competing Muslim groups come to agree on Mecca? Surely someone in one of these competing must have documented that Mecca was never our holy city.
The academic guest is a very learned man and his discourse is interesting and informative. Who is the host of this program? Is he a skateboarder or a snowboarder?
The host is Derek Lambert
@@inquisitivemind007 What's with the backward baseball cap and saloon vocabulary?
@@busterbiloxi3833 baseball ⚾️ cap? He's wearing black headphones 🎧
In 7 Century The Khuzestan Chronicle records an otherwise-unknown messianic claimant who arose alongside the Muslim conquest of Khuzestan. This Messiah led the Jews in destroying numerous Christian churches in Iraq and coastal Iran
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_messiah_claimants
No he was not but the prophet muhammed said if there was a prophet to come after me it would of been umar ra
I can see why looking at this interview
Has Derek ever had a guest discuss the work of Ignaz Goldziher??
Hoyland is great but like all academics they can't get into the mind because they don't know anything about Noahite Judaism.
If you want to know what is going on I can tell you. I am appointed by the Sanhedrin to be a teacher for Non-Jews. The Nasi is my Sandak. So send me an email if you want to know what's going on and we can talk.
The Dome marks the holy of holies. It is the attempt of an alliance of apocalyptic exiled Jews, and Christian pagans to rebuild the third temple, eventually copted by Muslims.
Great video! But somebody has got to buy this man a decent microphone!
It's Umar (RA) , kindly please Put Some Respect On His Name. Thank you
He a companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace & blessing of Allah be upon him ) and not a messenger not a messiah not anything that you're saying
We dont talking abouth faith, we talking about historically evidence
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
I don't watch MV for months cause of all the virtue signalling and pandering,I decide to try and give it a chance,then 30 min in the video,"I'm not a big fan that Wah-man...",pfff,bye once more I guess.
See ya 👋
@@joecurran2811 Your mother.
Farooq means: The one who distinguishes between right and wrong. I don't why you go to another language to understand a word.
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007):
"Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error."
Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007 The word فرق / Frq is an Arabic root word that means to separate, in the Arabic language most words are just derivations of a primal three lettered word. Farooq /فاروق is a derivation which means "he who seperates" (between good and bad, that is a strong moral compass).
To give another example, the word haloob/حلوب : "that which gives milk" is a derivation of hlb/حلب which means to milk; so it is a very common type of derivation, the word فرقاب you provided doesn't fit here as it doesn't have a root in فرق.
Saying it has another meaning because in another language it has another meaning or that it originated from that different language is weird, because one, no one ever used the word/ title with the Aramaic meaning and two, sounding similar and belonging to the same linguistic family does not mean they have the same meaning or even origin, in linguistics and translation studies they call it Fake Friends, like the word gift means two different things in English and German (present-poison) even though both languages are Germanic, same with the word pain in French which means bread although English borrowed quite a lot of words from French.
This theory/claim is just weird and fringe, I wonder if Jeffrey Arthur was just influenced by his Protestant faith, no one takes his claims seriously except Christian missionaries.
Wikipedia:
"In Abrahamic religions, a messiah 'the anointed one' is a savior or liberator of a group of people. The concepts of messianism, and of a Messianic Age originated in Judaism, and in the Hebrew Bible, in which a mashiach is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil."
Still waiting.
It is ejaculation. This is why they pour the oil over a bald head to signify the phallus ejaculating. In that sense there have been many messiahs, religious, civil and military including non-Jewish for example various Assyrian and Persian leaders but that is for another day. The root is ejaculation.
@@TheInterestedObserver There is many messiah, but only one match all prophecy in Jewish book.. Which is a person who punished and rejected by own people. How the messiah who being punished but still save peoples and make miracle, different than other, that is the key...
And there won't be other messiah in the future but judge, because the world situation today is not for messiah no more, but for judge.
@@yoelpardede9480 Well I guess it depends on which 'holy' book you choose to follow. Jews do not think the meshiach has arrived yet, Muslims say that person is Dajjal and only their book matters now. Christians say it is Jesus and eventually they turned Jesus into GOD!
At some point we have to sit back with an honest appraisal which says. They cannot *ALL* be right (as they are opposing narratives) and there is a *veeeeeery* good chance that *none* of them are right because let's face it, it is all state sponsored information.
No ! In Islam it is not
A messiah in Islam does not mean a liberator or a savior. messiah comes from a root m-s-h which means (مسح\wipe), because when he wiped or touched (masaha) the sick with his hands, they were healed. It has nothing to do with the meaning of anointing with the anointing of holy oil, as in Judaism and Christianity
@@yousuf6382 The problem is, no messiah in mecca in 6th century and before. Islamic explanation is useless.
Muslims which are Sunni Muslims, Sunni means orthodox believe only Allah knows the future and the unseen, this man is confused with the Shia they believe a lot of things
Dang, this is a ton of stuff packed into a single episode.
I'll have to take it in bits and pieces.
Please ask your guests to have a good microphone so we can understand them
Geez, missed half of what's been said
No, he wasn’t. Stop using our figures for absurd arguments. The messiah is ‘Isa ibn Maryam ع, Jesus the son of Mary.
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
For a PhD, this man is shockingly ignorant of the Islamic view of Judaism and the reason why Jerusalem was the first direction of prayer! Made me laugh at his ignorance!
if they asked an Arab child about the word Al-farouq الفاروق he will said it comes from verb فرق Faraqa and Al Faeouq a tittle simply means in Arabic "The person who differentiates between right and wrong"
To quote Jeffery Arthur in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an (p. 227, Brill 2007):
"Linguistically, there is a closer equivalence in the Aram[aic]. פרקז, פזרקז deliverence or redemption , and Geiger, 56 ff., suggested this as the source of the Arabic word [فرقاب]. He would see the primary meaning in viii, 29 - "He will grant you redemption and forgive your evil deeds," where the Targumic פזרקנא would fit exactly (cf. Ps. iii, 9, etc). Nowhere, however, is פזרקנא used of revelation, and Geiger is forced to explain فرقاب in the other passages by assuming that Muhammad looked upon revelation as a means of deliverance from error."
Both فروق and فرقاب share the same Syro-Aramaic root, فرق, and likewise share multiple senses. It is therefore reasonable to associate the sense, redeemer, with the Arab name, فروق.
@@inquisitivemind007 i am arab there is no word in our langauge is فرقاب we have root of word الفاروق al farouq which is فرق faraq so we dont need to find other langauge to explain its meaning
@5cats so you think the Arabic language is pure is it? No words from other languages entered it? I'd advise you to watch the interview with Marijn van Putten on foreign words in the Quran.
@@inquisitivemind007 we have foreign words such as جهنم or إستبرق but those words have no roots in the Arabic language but al Farouq is Arabic word has a verb "root" which is فرق faraqa.. An arab boy in the premier school know that .. فرق يفرق أفرق فارق فاروق يعني هنا الفعل بصوره الثلاث "الماضي والمضارع والأمر" وأيضا اسم الفاعل والمصدر
@@5cats267 Does the Arab boy in premier school know that the 2 times in Tabari when Umar was called Faruq was by a Jew and ex-Jew? Does the Arab boy in premier school know that not only was Umar called Faruq by a Jew and an ex-Jew but it had to do with Jerusalem and the Foundation Stone where the Jewish Temple once stood? I'm sure the Arab boy in premier school will realise that the Jew and ex-Jew who called Umar Faruq weren't using the Arabic dictionary but were using the word Faruq based on the Hebrew dictionary and they meant Umar was the Redeemer.
We muslims believe Jesus Christ is the only messiah.
2nd Caliph Umar defeated the Persian and Roman empires simultaneously.
We dont talking abouth faith, we talking about historically evidence
@DusTman hahahahahaha everything I typed is historically correct, what non muslims, white people wrote in books. Google search it
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
You guys are wasting you and others time. Second Caliph pbuh was Caliph not massiah. Isa ( pbuh) is massiah and he will descend when Allah wants him to.
Muhammad/The Praise One was messianic tittle for Umar
@@DusTman761 false, THERE is NO title in Arabic named Al Muhammad. It's a name.
@@greyralph1637 word Muhammad in Arabic has a meaning, Praised One.
@@DusTman761 it's a noun, not an adjective. So it's not a title. Arabic grammar is fickle but each languge to it's Own i guess
From a Jewish point of a view the Messiah can be non-Jewish like in the case of the Persian king Cyrus who was the annointed one as mentioned in Isaiah 45:1 and captured the Holy Land from the Babylonians and rebuilt Solomon's Temple; for the Jews they were looking for a Cyrus the Great figure in Umar.
wow truly amazing how you guys studied Islam...
Umar , Allah pleased with him, was sort of Messaih for the Jews... Coz when Umar gained Jerusalem without bloodshed, he allowed the Jews to return to the holy land.. Christians/Romans had banned Jews from entering the Holy Land for over 550 years... But it was Umar who allowed them to visit the Holy Land and visit the places of their worship... But it was put in the treaty by the Romans/Christians that so ok! They can visit the Holy Land but they cannot settle down in the Holy Land.. So, yes, Umar, Allaah pleased with him, was a kind of messaih for the Jews... Messaih in the means that he brought an end to their total exile from the land
You forgot to mention he allowed the Jewish ✡️ Temple to be rebuilt
FACTOS
Sabatai Levi