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Derek, I have to say that you present interesting people on your channel who add to the given topics. Especialy when I disagree with the statements it opens up more questions and further investigation. So me and many others thank you and your guests for the work and presentation.
@Mythvision podcast. You know I’m not a fan or hater of your channel I actually just found your channel yesterday and I watched one Video about Paul and the trinity and how you disproved his teaching using sources from Christian books, Jesus himself and the Bible and the contradictions all showed how inconsistent it was. It was easy to collapse. But then I saw a Video that you guys did about my prophet invading Palestine? Haha tittle was confusing . Even though I didn’t wanna watch I forced myself to see what you will say about my beloved prophet. But this is where your bias and inconsistent showed it’s face. The whole time you were using a scale to measure the weight of every religion meaning using its books or resources available at there time but all of the sudden when it comes to Islam you want to use meter( ) to measure the weight? Meaning using other peoples sources to judge them by???. A complete switch. So now if you were consistent though and are not afraid or hiding something you would judge Islam by it’s book or it’s early scholars or heck it’s prophet and his claims and make as see as you have done w Pauls teachings right but nooo your gonna judge Islam it by Christian resources??? Explain that… how injustice you are. You claim to have expert on their field in that video but they lack common sense. I swear I’m not angry just surprised by how crude you are to trying to prove my religion is false my using a religion u said is false religion like trinity of Christianity and demolished it…..See if what I am saying goes to your head.
thank you for promoting Islam by doubting its history which in fact the history of Islam is the history of a religion that is the fastest perpuated compare to other religions (so do you also have doubts about other religions?)
@@nidjoelunofficial8396 you can have your doubts about your beliefs but if we were to have doubts about our beliefs we would end up like you. So enough w the fake joyful tears ok. And move along. Nothing was disproven yet. Just fake flairs and dust in peoples eyes. We have unshakable believe in our creator Allah. Alhamdullillah. Even a video like this is not worthy of standing in our path let alone shake us. ☺️
I've always thought that Mohammed being said to have died in Arabia in 632 AD was a way for the early Islamic sources to establish him as a Moses figure, so it's interesting to hear all of this talk of Exodus, Joshua and re-taking the Jerusalem and the Holly Land.
The whole Arabia part of the story is a fabrication. Mecca never had the water to sustain a population; it still doesn't. It has to have water pumped in from desalination plants from Jeddah. Mecca only became important, because it was a pilgrimage site, and this occurred after the 680s, when the Black Rock of the Kabba was stolen from its original Kabba in Petra, and transported to Mecca. You had massive aquifer/water transport projects happening in the 800s, if memory serves correctly. This aquifer ended up so overused, the water dried up in the 1950s. Hope this is of help to you.
Excellently conducted and very enjoyable and interesting interview. Well done. One question that I would have liked to have seen put to SJS is whether he thinks the Qur'an's references to a place it calls the 'masjid al-haram' (the sacred place of prostration)/'maqam Ibrahim' (station of Abraham)/'Kaaba', etc are references to the Jerusalem temple. It seems to me overwhelming likely that they are and that the Qur'an's instructions to the believers to expel their enemies from where the believers had themselves been previously expelled, were composed in the late 620s/early 630s with this Palestine campaign in mind. SJS appears to believe that the Qur'an was canonised in the late 7C, and so these references may have, at least in their final edit, related to the story of Muhammad in Mecca. However, this view seems to me to counter the consensus of manuscript specialists that the Qur'an was canonised (in so far as it ever has been) by the mid-7C.
Really nice to read your commendation for Derek and the ideas re Jerusalem. I'm familiar with all that from your own channel which appears to have a respectful neutral stance in contrast to some others. It's disappointing to say the least that scholarship is used to drive evangelical agendas. Mythvision is refreshingly even handed, open minded, gracious and simply discovery driven. Maybe you could be interviewed here?
@@nzmaryb9523 Thank you for the kind and supportive words. I started my channel when I was between jobs but then I started work (teaching) and have no time for anything any more. However, if I tech again next year I shall hopefully have all my material prepped and be able to restart where I left off. I have not been entirely idle Islam-wise though. I have now written my own Jerusalem thesis down in an article, which I think is the medium that we need to embrace to impact wider academia. Hopefully it will be ready to put on the Internet by Easter. In it I shall make several arguments based upon the wording of the Qur'an that I have not put forward before on the topic. If my arguments are as sound as I believe them to be, I think people will find my article a significant advance in the study of early Islam. I differ slightly with your comments on evangelists. I am a Christian myself (RC) and have no problem with others bringing their own faith into the discussion. Indeed, the courage, enthusiasm (and resources) of evangelical Christians has helped massively to promote this whole area of research. So long as whatever is done is well-intentioned and done in a spirit of truth, which by and large it seems to be.
@@paulellis5101 The church has a great tradition and experience in academic exchanges and dialogue, we believe that fruits our works of our researchers and adherents of old provided significant work that served as catalysts that is being utilized the the most effective Protestant voices of this day and age (i.e. Jay Smith, David Wood, and others). The Church adherents that polemicize rather than dwell in charitable internal scholarship is in the minority. It is part of our same tradition of having no problem with Protestants, bringing their own faith and works into the discussion. Jay Smith and David Wood even have said that the Church is in the wrong, but that does not dissuade us from engaging, learning, and growing with them. Thus we certainly look forward to always working with our Protestant brothers, and sisters, in fact also with Muslims as well.
@@aevumcorvi2108 I don't see the church's great academic resources being brought to bear on the issue of Islam at the moment. GSR has done excellent work, but has very obvious limits.
@@paulellis5101 That is correct and we agree, sadly the Church can potentially do more. But of course we respect this is not only the focus of the Church.. Cheers!
Truth be told I think it's possible that the Muhammad and Jerusalem thing could be some kind of mix-up on the part of the Roman sources. I think the simplest explanation would be that these soldiers were identified or perhaps identified themselves to somebody as followers of Muhammad and they just assumed that was the war leader. It is also possible that someone may have given somebody out of date information and it led to confusion
When you have 9 independent reports spanning from the Latin, Greek and Armenian all the way to the Arabic and Syriac community then it becomes fact: Muhammad was leading an invasion of Palestine 🇵🇸
I immensely appreciate and support every and any kind of academic, science and mathematic research. All knowledge leads only to more knowledge. All questions lead to answers. I would like to extend my gratitude for these two gentlemen for the amazing discussion and dissecting of information they present. Bravo 🤝👌
I love this channel because its based on desire to know and curious for mlre knowledge... Not based on ego , to defend a religion because they are born in that or to destroy a religion because they don't like ....
@@inquisitivemind007 this is the more historically plausible scenario. Umar capitalizing on Muhammadian success is not a far stretch. Be it skin deep or through authentic belief is a different story. What many fail to incorporate in this discussion would be things like the ridda wars. And shia dissent in the face of perceived injustice from the 3 rashidun caliphs. I have personally even theorized that umar and abu bakr etc may have been resentful of Muhammads success, and definitely were not having it continue with Ali. This is without bias. I was raised in strict sunni tradition.
Derek, can I please make a suggestion. When you place scans up on the screen, people like myself are scanning them so we can then use them in our own outreach to Muslims. So it's vital that the exact careful reference is given, otherwise I cannot use them. Please do give more careful attention to this in future videos, i.e. if it's the reference from a book, then give the name of the book, the author and the page number in text, bearing in mind that some of us are using old PCs which take sometime to make a scan and images that flash up on the screen for a second or two are very difficult to scan as for technical reasons I cannot pause the video, as when I scan otherwise the sliding image appears at the bottom of the screen. Always remember that some people will want to make use your research, so please make it REALLY easy for us to make scans and to properly reference those scans. Here is one of my own videos, i am just starting and I have a lot to learn, but I am telephoning Mosques around the UK: th-cam.com/video/qNEIy9lONgY/w-d-xo.html
Great interview on a really interesting topic with a very knowledgeable guest. My only gripe is that Bart Ehrman is his mentor and his esteem for him has shaped his view of the historicity of Jesus question.
Abu Jaafar Muhammad bin Habib Al-Baghdadi wrote a book called Al-Mukhbar, and when I read it completely, I found that he was aware of the falsification of the biography of Muhammad at the hands of the Abbasids and Umayyads. It is clear that he was practicing piety through the style of writing the text, and he tried to pass on some information to correct the biography: 1- He mentioned by name 6 people who wrote the Qur’an during the time of Muhammad when he was alive. They are: -Saad bin Ubaid bin Al-Numan bin Qais bin Omar, bin Zaid bin Umayyah bin Zaid bin Malik bin Awf bin Omar, and bin Awf bin Malik bin Al-Aws, and he was the first to compile the Qur’an. -Abu Al-Darda' Awimar bin Zaid bin Qays bin Aisha bin Umayyah bin Malik bin Aamir bin Adi bin Ka'b bin Al-Khazraj bin Al-Harith. -Moaz bin Jabal bin Omar and bin Aws bin Aadhi bin Adi bin Kaab bin Amr bin Adi bin Saad bin Ali bin Asad bin Sarda bin Tazid bin Jashm bin Al Khazraj. -(Abu Zaid) who is Thabit bin Zaid bin Al-Numan bin Malik bin Imru’ Al-Qais bin Malik bin Tha’labah bin Ka’b bin Al-Khazraj -Ubayy bin Kaab bin Qais bin Ubaid bin Zaid bin Muawiyah bin Omar and bin Malik bin Al-Najjar. - Zaid bin Thabit bin Al-Dahhak bin Zaid bin Luthan bin Omar and bin Abdul Awf bin Ghanam bin Malik bin Al-Najjar. 2- Mentioning the date of Muhammad’s birth: The writer says that Amr ibn al-Mundhir, the son of Imru’ al-Qais and Amr, who was a stone grinder, reigned for sixteen years. For eight years and eight months of Amr's reign, the Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, was born. The Marigan inscription in Saudi Arabia mentions that Abraha attacked Arab tribes in the year 552 AD, and installed Amr ibn al-Mundhir as ruler in the same year. Based on this material evidence and this news, Muhammad’s birth is in the year 560 AD and not 570 as the official story claims. 3- Sending an army to Palestine: The writer mentions the text | Year nine. In which, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, Ali bin Abi Talib, may God be pleased with him, was sent with an army to Yemen, and he returned without encountering any plot. In it, Osama bin Zaid was transported to Darum (now Deir al-Balah in Gaza) from the land of Palestine. On an army, he returned victorious and returned safely . So we have here a clear statement that Muhammad sent an army and mentioned the name of the army commander and that he fought in Gaza, most likely he fought against the Ghassanids to secure the Levantine trade routes to the Arabian Peninsula.
Fascinating guest. I will definitely read some of his work. Would love his opinion on Dan Gibson's work about original Mecca being Petra Jordan. Gibson would be a great guest if you can get him. Thanks Derek!
@@inquisitivemind007 What an actual Quranic scholar has to say about the Quran, and not what some ignorant anti-muslim polemicist or anti-muslim Christian polemicists or a guy on youtube has to say about the Quran
31:55 "...when they (Muslims) invaded the near east..." That was during the earliest time of the faith. But according to popular belief, all the middle east and near east very happily embraced the new faith. They all must have said, please please Mo come to my village, please we love your new faith. And they lived very happily thereafter to this day! Wow what a turn of events
The early Muslims lived in prosperity and prosperity, and Baghdad and Andalusia were beacons of knowledge and scholars. While Europeans live in the Middle Ages and do not know how to use water after excrement (and they still are 🤣).
As for the cause of the situation of Muslims and their wars today, it is because of colonialism and the interventions of your countries and their planes that turned their lives into chaos in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia...etc.
Is is possible that it was just a case of mistaken identity? I mean they mistaken umar ( the head honcho of the Muslim caliphate ) at that time for a camel valet. Its not like they had seen him before. And Derek, Muhammad was indeed a shepherd during his stay with the bedouins. When he got back to Mecca to live with his uncle abi thalib who was a caravan trader, he learned trading as time went along. Later with his first wife khadija he really started his trade as merchant
The whole of Islam is "mistaken identity" .... nonsense to the core. Imagine believing that sperm originates from between the backbone and ribs of a man or that the sun sets in a pool of black muddy water or that ants talk or meteors being missiles to shoot down eavesdropping demons... i mean the Koran is littered with utter bull crap that 85% of momins don't even know exists within its pages because of the obvious language barrier that keeps them ignorant...
In the book of Sean Anthony the shepherd identity of Mohammed is questioned as far as I remember. This would be a way of putting Mohammed in line of earlier prophets such as Abraham who was a shepherd/nomad
@@inquisitivemind007 eschatology. It's just which is more probable. Don't rely too hard on rationality. Sometimes if you tip your fedora to low its gonna block your view
@@mutamirmukhzani1240Hilarious.... but if you consider kissing a pagan fertility rock and following a corrupt womanizing child mol ester "new firmware" ... then absolutely... old all the way dude!
Wrong? Jerusalem was the main point and only when the Muslims where in Medina did the Kibla change to Mecca…Muslims before that prayed towards Jerusalem
There were no mecca before islm was born. mecca is the disneyland of islm only exist as a way to gain money from poor people beliving in all the lies and nonsense about mecca being the city of islm. Theres no proof or archeological evidence of the city mecca in arabian desert. Its all just sand and dust....
The Holy Land is the residence of the Chosen People of God just like the Vatican 🇻🇦 is the residence of the Pope. According to Islam ☪️ God is upset with the Jews ✡️ and now Muhammad and his followers are the new Chosen People of God hence his residence is now the Holy Land Q5:21 - that's why he was heading that way.
@@inquisitivemind007 - my partner is Lebanese and speaks fluent Arabic. Google translate even gets the transliteration incorrect. If you take the use of the pronouns in certain verses - one in particular where a fluid is ejected from…. Loins It’s deliberately miss translated to cover the fact it’s saying man is created from a fluid ejected between the backbone and ribs, I.e. Semen
The first hadith... It's quite obviously metaphorical lol. Not "God time" but quite obviously metaphorical. As for preparation for his death, he made it clear who was to succeed him many times (the most obvious occasion being at Ghadir Khumm). Also, Shias do not say that references to Ali's successorship were purged from the Qur'an, Stephen has got that very wrong.
You need to remember one important thing, when you read the ancient writing you will notice one thing that because of absence of surname people used to be called in the name of their parents. So when a ancient scripture says Isaiah or Isa or X and Y or Mohammed will name them in this way: isa ibn Maryam or Mohammed ibn Abdullah or Moawiyah ibn abusofian or Abdul Malik ibn Marvan. When a ancient scripture writes Mohammed or mehmet and if this name was a common name which Mohammed or mehmet they mean?!
There is one cool thing about Buddhism. There is no essential miracle in Buddhism which could be undone by an honest scientific inquiry. Of course there are supernatural aspects to the faith such as re-incarnation, Metta, Dharma, Karrma of course. But also there is the story of Buddha's painless birth after which he took 3 steps and spoke. And his Parinibana where he transcends his mortal body and attains Nibana (Nirvana). Science cannot prove or disprove whether we re-incarnate or have karmic merits or debts. It's non-falsifiable, you can't double blind this kind of thing. Invent time travel and go back in time and prove that Guatama was not born painlessly. Prove that he died like any other person. This would would not affect the way Buddhism is practiced at all.
Islam is the true continuation of Judaism. But because there were Jews that would not accept Prophet Mohammad and they wanted to control the brand and narrative of Judaism to hold power, Islam was brought to the world as a different religion and a new covenant, but it is the same as the original true Judaism and Christianity in its core tenants. It is a mirror image of the meat and potatoes of the original Judaism, but presented and expanded upon in the Arabic language. It is the completion and final revelation of the Abrahamic religions.
Regarding the existence of both Mohammed and Jesus. If they are demonstrated not to exist but be mythical, it is absolutely a death blow to both religions, which is why it is so contested. However if they existed, their stories might be so mythologied that it is irrelevant or a minor issue whether they existed or not..what I find awkward is that the likelihood of existence legitimises standard narratives. It does not. It only allows it to avoid the end stop of mythicism. (Technicalky there is a way to say Jeeus as an angel allows a certain sort of fundamentalist chistianity but that is an esoteric thought that all secularists like myself would discount)
Pretty sure both existed. However what we dont understand today, is that even before jesus there were strong movements of burning books and history of the "conquered". New movements always sought to snuff out old ones. We dont quite understand in the information age.
Meaning that these figures probably existed in a very different way. Jesus the violent revolutionary terrorist? Muhammad the scriptural prodigy from a young age, literary genius and statesman? However we are told he was a lowly merchant orphan, and ILLITERATE?
@@SuhaibZafar I can be pretty sure, based on the evidence of both. It can't be proven. Thus inconclusive. So I can theorize that, yes, both religions mythologized the men
@@c5quared626 mythology is true for Jesus but not For Muhammad. There are various direct witness account narrates abt Muhammad and His miracles with compelete narrator's name and biography. It is not just hearsay. There were His closest companions lived 80 years after His death up to the early Islamic empire. While for Jesus We don't have much evidence for Him unfortunate. Muslim doesn't hope much when it comes to historical evidence for Jesus. They believe in Him bcz Muhammad told them He existed.
Have become a fan of this time period since reading Tom Hollands work on the early years of Islam and professor Donner’ believers work. Greatly appreciate professors and scholars such as these that do deep dives into such an amazing time period and the creation of the 2nd largest religion on Earth. Would love to see these scholars do a panel on this subject.
@ 01:04:00 what 😳, did he claim that new verses interduced and people said they didn't hear them before?, this is so stupid. He made this up 1) according to him, the Islamic narrative is not reliable ; and 2) since there are no non-islamic resources for the events upon and after Prophet's death; therfore 3) He fabricated his own narrative for what happened! What kind of scholarship is this!
What you are talking about is ghazwat Tabuk and it is even in the Quran. In this ghazwat, the Byzantines didn't fight against him. There 2 ghazwats in the life of Prophet Muhammad before his death. Tabuk is the only one lead by Prophet Muhammad. A one before it ghazwat Mo'ta where Muslims lost the fight after fighting Byzantines and Christian Arabs. The third one was prepared just before Prophet Muhammad's death it was sent after his death led by Osama ben Zaid.
@@inquisitivemind007 I am talking about another one called ghazwet Tabuk. It happened at a latter time and it is the last ghazwa by prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
@@inquisitivemind007 do you have a source for this information? There is another reason for this name. This battle had an army including most of the Muslims capable of fighting and it was sent based on the prophet exact command specifying the three leaders for the army who were killed in the battle. That is why it is considered a ghazwah like the battles lead by the prophet himself.
0:40 You're wrong Derek, the Doctrina Jacobi never says that 'Muhammad' of 'Mecca' was in Palestine. And what he so called said corresponds much more to Jewish expectation (the Messiah free Israel from Christians) than what can we read in the Quran where there is no announce of a Messiah.
@@inquisitivemind007 and who was this Jacobi. Did He meet prophet personally or saw Him riding horse during the siege of Jerusalem? We need more than just anynomous story. This is from Christian source. We can not expect much from them to tell accurate story abt Our Prophet when they can't even preserved the holy Bible.
@andanandan6061 Muhammad's goal was the Holy Land from the Nile to the Euphrates including Q5:21 which he was facing for 17/18 months before the qibla changed to Mecca. Towards the end of his life he engaged in Zionist activities to capture the Holy Land Q5:21 as shown in this interview - that's why the Jews thought Muhammad was the Messiah as reported in Theopanes 817AD and why someone in the Jewish community in the mid 8th century wrote in The Secrets of Rabbi Šim‘on ben Yohai "...He shall raise up over them a prophet [Muhammad] in accordance with His will, and He will subdue the land [Israel] for them; and they shall come and restore it with grandeur..."
@@etamdavid4004 -159- And there is no one of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the day of judgment he will be a witness against them- (Y. Ali translation) Nothing of an announce of the return of Jesus here.
These two gentlemen are both wrong about who gets Jerusalem... Abraham only gets the land of the Goyim, Ishmael may become only one great nation, Goy, and the Covenant is between only God and Isaac; monogamist, older prophetess mother, a farmer-not violent past orslist, prays for his wife's barrenness (unlike Abraham)...The Messenger tells Jacob that Abraham is his father; so the deal with God is off?
this is interesting, why not approach from military side like khalid ibn alwalid he lives around 592 very famous in wars history like one of his famous yarmouk battle against byzantine empire
I Yes, yes, "monotheist renewal moment" @48:00-49:00 of video. Another term is "restorationism". Remember King Tuts' dad? Only one true God? The one true Egyptian religion? All other Egyptian polytheistic priests are wrong and outlawed? The "promise" to Abraham is a "monotheistic renewal movement" also. Elijah on Mt. Carmel the same? The Maccabean revolt? Philo's assembly before Caligula, the Jewish wars 66-74 ce were all restorationist movements. Jesus, fictional or historic is the exemplified "true Judaism", or " idealized Judaism" in the writer's minds (4 versions to add different emphasis). Why would the ecumenical Jewish/Arab/Christian movement be any different?
I have listened to your program a few times and you come off as biased against Islam. You can believe that Moses, Abraham and Jesus received revelation from God , but you say Mohammad (PBUH) must have been talking to some Jews or Rabbis. The Quran is way different than the previous scriptures because they have been corrupted, probably by people like yourself.
Doesn't sound like you have listened to the program. He does not believe Moses or Abraham really existed. As for Jesus the channel started with the mysticist (hence the name Myth Vision) position that Jesus never really existed. He seems to now be open to historical Jesus theory but is still a non believer. Actually listen to his program instead of saying that you did and you will realize that it is a secular channel exploring religions from a secular historical perspective.
Thats kind of important when talking about sarah to be able to seperate that . And let it not be lost on you saying they say this and that will come out of abraham , okay , so Derricks now saying all arabs came out of sarah . I thought that sarah encouraged abraham to have intercourse with a concubine and God said many nations will come out of abraham . Derrick needs you to believe all arabs ( sarahsins) came out of sarah .
So Muhammad's biography fits as close to Deutronomy 18:18 as possible by having him die before his followers capture the Holy Land just like Moses did.
First it's not called an invasion it's called leberation from the Roman occupation, and that was during the reign of khalifa Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, and secondly, this is found in history books and Islamic history, and the chief bishop of the city handed over the keys to the city to khalifa Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, and this was not during the reign of our Profit Muhammad, but after his departure. Personally, I do not know why you host non-Muslims ( with rispect to them) to speak and discuss Islamic matters, at one time you discuss history, at one time you discuss the Prophet’s biography, and at another time the Qur’an and religion … what do you want to reach?
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (ﷺ) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains. Sahih al-Bukhari 6982
These are not authentic and are called Al-Bukhari Comments and not Sahih Al-Bukhari. So go and learn from Muslim scholars instead of copying and pasting
@@inquisitivemind007 No. Sahih al-Bukhari is of two types, which is a true chain of narrators. And it contains the comments of Al-Bukhari and they differ from her
@@apolloniusoftyana7049 No, I did not make a mistake. I say it is not a hadith connected to the chains of men. This means that it is (sent). th-cam.com/video/ifLB9vDlGTY/w-d-xo.html
Syria and Palestine always been semitic people's, Greeks, Persian roman's, we're Indo-European invaders, this basic fact you should never forget ,plus the descendents of Abraham, become monotheistic, since 3,900 years,
He's slightly misrepresenting what the "gold standard" historiographical criteria are: multiple INDEPENDENT attestations. Even then it's not 100%. There are many attestations of the miracle of Zeus throwing thunderbolts for Marcus Aurelius and no one believes that really happened. If he's going on about how he's 100% on all these things that any prudent scholar would say are unclear, then he has a very optimistic view of what he claims he knows. Kinda shows why Biblical or Quranic scholar use different standards of evidence, and how the rest of us should view such statements with skepticism. See Dr Hector Avalos "The End of Biblical Studies" instead of Bart Erhman's work.
The wording of Sebeos text, is very funny! It clearly shows, that the text is constructed and added to Sebeos book later on. Just think, what Sebeos think is important for him to mention is, forbidding consumption of pork and alcohol, and speaking truthfully! Muhammed has clearly advised his followers to lie, and be dishonest!
There is corroboration with Sebeos found in Maximus the Confessor 662AD letter 14 "...to see this barbarous people from the desert overrunning another’s lands as if they were their own! And to see this civilized polity devoured by savage and raging beasts, who have the mere appearance of only the form of a human beings! And to see the Jewish people, who have long delighted in the flow of human blood...."
@@inquisitivemind007 How exactly Doctrina Jacobi corroborate in Sebeos account? I mean, according to Muslims own sources we read about nothing but war, plundering, and rape. So, I expect an external source like Sebeos says something about that. But he doesn't do that. Instead, he paints a pious face for Muslims. Sometimes, one should read between the lines too!
@@inquisitivemind007 I see, that is an interesting theme to study, but that doesn't talk about Muslims. I think, to begin with, there was the Arab conquest of Persia. And Islam gradually developed among some Christian sects, and eventually emerged as a new religion.
Try to host Muslim sheikhs to discuss these issues because your guest's discussions are funny and we don't want your viewers to be without understanding the truth. Because the channel's goal is enlightening and educational, isn't it? Just as there are enlighteners and teachers, there are those who teach ignorance .. There are many Salafi preachers and sheikhs that can explain to you, such as Sheikh Asim Al-Hakim, Sheikh Othman bin Al-Farouq, Shamsi, Farid, Sheikh Hassan Somali, Bilal Philips, Dr. Taher White and Abu Osama Al-Dhahabi -Sheikh Assim Al hakim ، Dr Muhammad Salah ، Shaykh Abu Usamah At-Thahabi ، Sheikh Shamsi - Dr.Tahir Wyatt, Karim AbuZaid- Sheikh Othman bin Al-Farouq، ـ Shaykh Hasan Somali ، Abdur Raheem McCarthy's - ـ Ustaadh Muhammad Tim Humble , Abdur Raheem McCarthy's - Sheikh Abdul Rahman Al-Dimashqieh . Sheikh Bilal Philips ، Farid Responds ، And many others.
@@inquisitivemind007 Dear, the sources of the Prophet’s biography are in Arabic, the guests and no one speaks Arabic.. How do you learn from ignorant people who do not know how to read their sources of information.. How can I learn from them when I am an Arab, understand the language of the Qur’an, the Sunnah and Islamic history? Therefore, I am honest with you, and I still say do not host unknown people who make you a laughingstock in the content. There is nothing wrong with presenting doubts about Islam, but invite someone who understands these doubts and answers them with what he has understood from the Qur’an, the Sunnah and Islamic history. Because there are no secrets in Islam and we accept discussion and debate with a sophisticated understanding.. not by hosting ignorant people in the language and the sciences of the Qur’an, the sciences of the Sunnah, history and grammar, and you want me to learn from them. I advise and love to see good content that we respect with scientific standards.. The fact that our children are better educated than the hosts criticizing Islam. I say it advised because I love the owner of the channel who wants to reach the truth But the guests are at their lowest scientific and intellectual decadence, so they will be a joke to us. Their criticisms are weightless because Islam has been criticized for 1,400 years and its supporters are increasing The goal is to provide useful and honest content to followers and that's just what I'm looking for. Greetings to you .
@@عبدالله-ن6ه2ص his guest don't know how to speak Arabic? Then how did Sean Anthony translate Ma'mur ibn Rashid into English then? Using Google translate? What about the other guests Derek brought on: Marijn van Putten and Hythem Sidky. I suppose they don't speak Arabic either? It's this delusion of yours that Islam is invincible, unbeatable and iron plated why Islam ☪️ is the fastest shrinking religion in the world based on conversion rate and not the fastest growing. It's only because you breed than anyone else that you think you are the fastest growing religion. Here are the guests Derek has bought on that speak Arabic th-cam.com/video/fu0hGLzw7eo/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/xkMqKB5SM1A/w-d-xo.html
@@inquisitivemind007 You think that you are knowledgeable and you are ignorant of many things. Advice loving learn the Arabic language and understand the sciences of the Arabic language and the sciences of the Qur’an and the sciences of hadith, after that criticize with knowledge. Copying and pasting does not help you and a waste of your life. And the links you sent are funny..so try to understand Islam and the keys to understanding it is learning the Arabic language. Watch the Sheikh Othman bin Al-Farouq channel in books for learning Arabic and the brother Shamsi channel in explaining the books on learning Arabic.. Then you can talk to me and discuss freely.. But it is difficult to talk with people who do not understand hadith or Islamic history from authentic Arabic sources. Greetings to you .
@@عبدالله-ن6ه2ص let me try again. These guests Derek has bought on SPEAK ARABIC. They are Sean Anthony Marijn van Putten, Hythem Sidky and Shady Nasser. Which part of the phrase "they speak Arabic" don't you understand? Also if you believe I am ignorant then come onto my channel and expose me.
@@inquisitivemind007 He is totally amazing,the things he has been saying with all these Academics made me Rethink a whole Lot of What l was Tought So Iam now Deconstructing.
@samuel russell the last one Derek did called "Was Umar the Messiah?" was incredible. I've never seen so many original manuscripts in one interview! An absolute treat for those who are into academia.
Sorry to debunk you there, the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) never visited Palestine to start with so the very core of your video is misinformation ,however, I want to thank you for those references that will be used to debunk other people like you who lack knowledge of Islam. LOLZZZZZZZ
U probably just scared of realizing islm was just a false cult based on lies and fabrications. Its never too late to come out of the illusion and into the real world.LOOOL
@@inquisitivemind007 David king? LOOOL, only able to come up with his own wishful thinking. The biggest misconception about islm is that its peaceful. The leader of this cult was a paedo warlord
@@avtaras well at least we can try to put primary sources as priority. Then secondary yadayadayada. And I don't think the opponent sources should be valued more than local sources.
@@mutamirmukhzani1240 it is not just scriptures but archeological evidence, coins, buidlings and ruins and inscription on them. This gives very different picture of the situation, though often we see a wide bandwith of Interpretation.
This video was pure nonsense. This Shoemaker guy is obviously biased. He made so many blunders and errors I dont know where to begin, but whatever this is clearly a biased channel against Islam so whatever.
Pure nonsense? He has proven from Sebeos 660AD and Doctrina Jacobi 634AD combined that Muhammad was leading the invasion of Palestine 🇵🇸. It's your biographers that are writing ✍ nonsense especially when we have Ibn Hisham admitting editing parts Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad out regardless of whether those parts are true or not.
@@inquisitivemind007 Ibn Ishaq is not authoritative like Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. We only take from ibn Ishaq narrations if they corroborates with sahih hadiths (primarily, the 6 hadith books). There are definitely fabrications in ibn Ishaq. Also it seems that the writings of Sebeos and Jacobi mistook the army of Prophet Muhammad for himself. Btw, this happens a lot in war literature, where the main leader is mistaken for his army. It is very likely that they heard about the message of Islam and the mission of the Prophet and heard about his campaign at the same time and thought that he must have still been alive. Lastly, the prof admits multiple times that all of these theories of his are mostly speculative and hypothetical, and that is why academia doesnt engage with these strange theories of his.
@dom I hear that about Ibn Ishaq all the time. Then perhaps you can kindly explain to everyone why is Tabari 923AD, this award winning biographer th-cam.com/video/yR2hHtsZf70/w-d-xo.html and Ibn Hajar al Asqalani 1449AD doing using Ibn Ishaq as you can see 2:54 of this th-cam.com/video/DUOM5QdN9XY/w-d-xo.html. If the person in Doctrina Jacobi 634AD was mistaken for one of Muhammad's companions then why is there corroboration about the 2nd coming of Christ? Are you saying that's just a coincidence? It's clear that the person in Doctrina Jacobi is Muhammad.
@@A13b100 Surely starting with the backstory and then listening to both sides of the story is the way to determine what happened isn't it? If one wanted to know what happened during the partition of India wouldn't one start with the backstory (the British rule of India) and then listen to both sides of the story during partition (India's side and then Pakistan's side) and then reconstruct what happened? Likewise surely to know what happened wouldn't you start with the backstory (Byzantine-Persian war) and then listen to both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources) and then reconstruct what happened?
You have to revise to much history to accept this nonsense. Firstly you have to reject that there were 4 khaliefs, and you have to reject the reason for Sunni Shia split. If abubakr and Umar were not the khalifs during concurring of Palestine and Syria then why did the Sunni Shia split happen
Muhammad aka the blessed one - was a title, not a first name, there were many leaders by that name at that time in that area, but still not yet any islam.
This is the key. If "Muhammad" was just a title, which it seems to be, then the leader of the Seraceans that may have come after the death of the original Muhammad could have been referred to as such.
Ok 😪i ll explain it once Luke 13:33 is prophetasing the mesiah Mesiah is quraan is clearly without doupt not mohammad Jurosalem is sacred and at most important to moslems ... that is a whole other topic
*So MythVision is now busy creating a new myth. At a time when information was hard to come by, a measly piece of paper by people ignorant of anything further than their immediate environs cannot constitute as solid evidence* ! I'm sorry this is less than the standard i was expecting.
When you have "multiple independent corroboration" then it becomes fact. Besides the reason why Muhammad wanted to capture Jerusalem and live there is because of Luke 13:33.
Opinions which you are entitled to, you have far more sources and an entire tradition of tawatur transmission reporting the opposite! But these conspiracy theories are interesting.
@@elliot7205 conspiracy theory? Maybe you can explain why the Battle of Mutah is called Ghazwah Mutah when Muhammad according to you wasn't there th-cam.com/video/ph9qbff5LCg/w-d-xo.html
@@inquisitivemind007 Hah! *He simply wasn't there. Who told you this waffle? And the place is "Mu'tah مُؤْتَة" . The battle is alternatively called either مَعْرَكَة مُؤْتَة, Maʿrakah Muʿtah, or غَزْوَة مُؤْتَة Ghazwah Muʿtah in sources, and just because it is called the latter at times does not mean Muhammad was there! You are being too simplistic!. At the Battle of Mu'tah there were these three commanders succession, as one died the other took over* : *Commander 1 Zaid ibn Harithah* *Commander2 Ja'far ibn Abi Talib - the prophet's cousin.* *Commander3 Abdullah ibn Rawahah* *He himself was in Madina at the time. You need to grow up* !
Hmm on one hand the scholar presented a lot of evidence and supporting arguments, but then on the other hand this guy in the comments said “nah”. How will I know what’s true?
@@MythVisionPodcast Please start covering Hinduism as well Apparently some Hindu and Hindutva fanatics think they are somehow better than Abrahamic Faiths😒
@@MythVisionPodcast it's a waste of time. They don't have anything to offer, except whining about things they don't understand and beyond their level of education. If you do that , then you're undermining these scholars. BTW I'm Muslims and I like to hear academics and scholars point of views and their research, without slandering or disrespecting other. More over aren't bias or driven by any type of missionaries.
@@youmnaification - but the problem is these scholars have a strong bias towards Islam. Historians with no association towards any faith are more reliable. Scholars deliberately miss translate the Quran when passages have fundamental errors
Wow woo wow, this was a gem Derek, fantastic guest and topic. Pre-Jewish war 'christianity' was Mosaic mono-theism and I suspect that pre-schism Islam was simply Mosaic mono-theism as well.
@@sonye-jin6737 I don't see Islam as very gnostic. Might be some manichaen influence in Muhammad being the "parcelate" and I heard mani may have considered himself the "seal of the prophets".
Hey Derek, please try to interview someone from the Inarah group in Germany. They consider all these sources manipulated by later copyists. They rely only on coins and inscriptions.
Well taking in consideration those manuscripts, then they contradicts the Hadith collection and the Quran. Since these two sources confirm that yes Prophet Muhammad visited Jerusalem but not physically but spiritually riding on the back of a creation known as BURAQ that was like a kind of winged horse that’s the closest description we can get from the Islamic manuscripts. And this are not the only event where is narrated something like that but we have the story of Prophet Enoc or Idriss that according to the Quran was taken to heaven in the back of an angel or the story of Jesus son of Mary, that Allah took him to heaven alive and put another person in the cross that looks like Jesus or Issa. And mention in the Book, Idris. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. And We raised him to a high station.” (Quran, 19:56-57) Behold! Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you of those who disbelieve…’” (Quran, 3:55)1 But they neither killed nor crucified him. It was only made to appear so to them… Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (Quran, 4:157-158)2 "Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest mosque, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing." Surah Al-Isra (17:1)
Good discussion but I don't find this idea convincing that Mohammad thought that he was going to be alive when the hour came. There are numerous hadith which talk about the signs of the last hour and how people would deviate from Islam in the absence of Mohammad. All these traditions would seem paradoxical if there originally was the idea of an early end of the world during Mohammad's lifetime
The hadeeth traditions are all coming much later after these written sources. So if they contradict each other, the earlier ones are worth more than the later ones.
@@inquisitivemind007 he also said the bedouins will compete against themselves to build tower. Somewhere along that line. What is the day of judgement anyway? We already have national court nowadays.
Books are either false or ignorant, or scientific and verified. Unfortunately, these books contradict the books that have proven a lot about the death of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and from many sources and with the presence of physical evidence for it. But whoever wants to teach ignorance to his followers is a funny thing because that means switching from a useful channel to a channel of clowning and lying.
@@inquisitivemind007 the fact that you edit out videos of Hythem sidky and Marjin van putten to make it sound like they are saying things they are not saying, especially when one watches the full video you edited
@@inquisitivemind007 marjin has already appeared on mythvision where he clears up misconceptions about the preservation of the Quranic text and the Quranic Rasm Especially those misconceptions forwarded by stupid anti Muslim polemicists
@@merlinx8703 - these are the same historians that specifically highlight the same fundamental issues with the Christian and Jewish claims. To say it’s anti Muslim content is just not true. To think a god that created mankind has allowed such vastly different religions over time, with no agreement on a correct version just isn’t logical
Allahu Akbar ❤ ... Prior to watching this I honestly had a bad taste in my mouth for Professor Shoemaker, as I felt like he was a sort of know-it-all pushing some sort of an agenda. I feel like seeing him in an environment like Mythvision has allowed me to see him in a different light. I definitely intend to get those books; I already downloaded his 100 page article from Academia! Thanks so much for this. Was very much needed and is very much appreciated.
Shoemaker is right most of the time but just one thing that he didn't realise. Saying Mkmd is a title is not equal as saying the real person doesn't exist, that's a logical falacy. Mkmd means 'blessed be' and it was applied to many persons. The DOTR in Jerusalem is not a mosque but a (anti-trinitarian) Church. The first shahada was inscribed in the DOTR, not in the quran. The first part of shahada had been used by early Arab Christians. The second one was an insult to the trinitians (Byzantine): 'Blessed be (=Mkmd) the messenger of God' . It refers to Jesus and demoted Him as merely a man, a messenger like John the Baptist. The real person who invaded Jerusalem is likely be muawiyah, and the person who build the DOTR is abdul malik. He was an anti-trinitarian Christian warlord that unified people of the deserts and established Arab identity, minting coins, adopted a syriac Christian lectionaries into a book, and adopted an unknown preacher as the prophet after Jesus. So naturally the title Mkmd moved to the new prophet. Some said his real name was Quthm. When you read Quran translation, you have to remove words inside parenthesis because those words aren't in the Arabic quran. The word Mkmd appears only 4 times (not 33 times) in the quran. Based on the grammar and context, 3 out of the 4 are about Jesus. One might be refer to the prophet but looking at the manuscript, the verse seems to be added later in the bottom margin of the manuscript. In summary, the fact that a real person was likely exist and was called Mkmd, doesn't mean Mkmd is a name.
@@mutamirmukhzani1240 you are mocking your own logical fallacy and lack of comprehension. A name can be a title too. Name can have a meaning and at the same time refer to people. Jesus' birth, life, cruxifiction, resurrection, ascention were witnessed by many people, not just Christians. There were many historical accounts, even by non Christians, about the cruxifiction. The church Jesus founded is still alive until today with leadership that can be traced back to the Apostles. And most importantly, Jesus' miracles, saving souls, lives on until today. There are simply too many evidences that Jesus exist. Mkmd (blessed/praised be) was one of the title used by early Arab Christians to glorify Jesus, they could have use it for others, ie the previous prophets too. Arabian was a land of (Christian) heretics. An anti trinitarian cult spread in northern Arabia towards the sassanid (Persia). The cult, under Muawiyah started sucessful rebellion of Arab mercenaries against their Byzantine master. Their warlord, Abdul Malik took control wanted to create Arab identity. A different anti trinitarian heretics were also spreading in the southern Arabia (Yemen) from Africa. There were also pagan nabateans from Petra (a center of trade, mother of all cities), with their famous 3 female goddess, Al uzza, alat, al manat. Abdul al malik minted coins and inscribe the famous shahada inside the Dome of The rocks, mocking Byzantine Christianity. The first part is the same as Jews and Christians, but the second part demoted Jesus to merely a messenger: Mkmd (blessed be) the messenger of God. At that time, this title only befitting Jesus and God himself, but the shahada refer to the messenger, and thus Mkmd title in the DOTR certainly refers to Jesus (or Yeshua in Arabic). Unless you wanted to insist that the title refers to others, like muawiyah, umar, and unknown warlord, or Abdul al malik himself. But this means the cult worship another Lord than al lah (musyrik) and against tauhid. So this is unlikely. The syriac aramaic lectionaries (quryana) were adopted and preached in Arabic. The later abassid dynasty then establish a new religion. The above lectionaries were written down (the proto-Quran). The northern heretic stories were incorporated. Other famous folk tales were included. To gain support for the nabateans, their 3 gods were included (abrogated later, but traces remained) and the pagan rituals of quraish sect of the nabateans were adopted. The black stones were moved (likely from Yemeny kabah, where it was put after being stolen from Petra) to the kabah in the new Mecca. Out of 4 times Mkmd word appeared in the quran, 3 refers to Jesus. One likely refer to an unnamed warlord and preacher. Looking at the manuscript, this one verse was written in the margin, so it was likely an addition to the Quran on a later date. So, it is likely that the warlord with the title Mkmd existed, but no one is sure when exactly the title Mkmd was reassigned as name of the warlord. Of course, it is still possible that the warlord was a made up story as there wasn't any historical traces at all, and thus Thomas doubted the real person existence. I hope this long explanations make sense to you.
@@AndiWidjaja nope kang. The same rules apply for everybody. If there are no proof of their existence, then what they were addressed as is just a placeholder title for another cult's leader. I'm just trying to be consistent here. Bisa nggak?
@@mutamirmukhzani1240 I had explain, but you can keep barking. It won't change the facts that there were too many evidences for Jesus. A blind abdool won't make a difference. 😁
@@merlinx8703 What a dumb question that is. I do not have to prove that does not exist. I do not have to prove that dragons do not exist, as they do not exist. I do not have to prove aliens, Satan, God do not exist as do not. You have prove what you claim to exist, as they suppose to exist as you claim.
@@__.Sara.__ what I meant was at least your comment is better than other comments under the video Other comments are just inflammatory anti-Muslim polemics
the host being a former “fundamentalist” (in his words) Christian leads to ahistorical conclusions about Jesus Christ and the Bible: Jesus didn’t anticipate what was to come? This is contradicted by any basic reading of the New Testament and early Church Fathers
Historical Muhammad doesn't make any sense if we rationally study Islamic tradition because nature doesn't work in the way tradition tells . Now a days it's well known knowledge how a religion evolve over time. How can we forget religion does not require historical Character. The way Israelites deals with Devin in context with historical events is just nonsensical. It causes more stupidity. We almost forgotten our past ...! Nothing comes from the sky !
There is so much that the speaker has missed out when quoting the Islamic sources regarding the end of time. So many signs have been mentioned that will occur before the Judgement day. Only a few have occurred till date. There is so much yet to come. The speaker hasn’t mentioned any 🤔.
It seems the converts from the religious leaders amongst the Abrahamic religions - Christian faith,namely the Bishops & other's similarly from, amongst the faith's of the Jew's namely the Rabbies etc & the Persian's clergy, who resided on the fringe areas of these civilizations, and who could not get the answers to the ,age old, vexing issue's faced by these religions , in some way may have contributed to the volumes of translated manuscripts which existed & which uthman seized prior to the canonization of their scripture. These translated manuscripts,was a desperate search for answer's by these religious leaders, to issue's faced like , e.g.,the nature of christ & many other such perplexing issues,which remained unresolved for a long time. The natural calamities ,at that point in time,only added to their desperation. These converts & the translation may have had a role.
I think that the religious center changed from Jerusalem to Mecca for political reason. The change occured during the reign of Abd al Malik 685 to 705 AD. al Malik, which barely won a civil war, wanted something to unify the Arab tribes, some of whom were still pagan. Ibn Zubayr set up a rival Caliphate in Mecca, holy to the pagans. But he was defeated and killed. So al Malik incorporated pagan practices like the pilgrimage to Mecca to unify the Arab tribes by bringing the pagan tribes into the fold. Coins minted in Islam's early years showed crosses. So did Muawiyah's stone inscription in a Roman bath in North Israel, proving he was Christian. So the early Caliphs were Christian. The crosses dissapeared halfway during the reign of al Malik (reigned 685 to 705 AD) and the mosques built around this time had the kiblas pointing towards Mecca. Earlier, they pointed to Jerusalem. This marked the birth of Islam. Around 700AD. It still took more than 100 years for it to fully develop. You can see the remnants of Christianity and Judaism in modern day Islam. Muslims to this day believe that Jesus and not Mohammed who is coming again. Muslims practice old Jewish customs, some of which modern Jews no longer practice ie no pork, stoning, animal sacrifices, circumcision. So Islam probably started from one of the Jewish Christian sects, perhaps the Ebionites or the Nazarenes or one we don't know about that survived till the 7th century. These sects believed Jesus to be the Messiah but wanted to keep Jewish customs. Then to unify the Arab tribes, abd al malik added an element of pagainism to what was Jewish Christianity. And Islam was born.
Love your passion but you are very ignorant of Jewish and Christian theological concepts, history and thought. Or to be fair, just a bot too skeptical. The Bible has been proven correct with every new archeological discovery. As far as Islam, we need to know first "Did Mohammed exist?", "Exactly what are the roots of the Quran?", and lastly, when the Quran clearly shows the divinity of Jesus, why is it that they can't believe? Keep digging!
This is what we call a real conspiracy theory!
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Derek, I have to say that you present interesting people on your channel who add to the given topics.
Especialy when I disagree with the statements it opens up more questions and further investigation.
So me and many others thank you and your guests for the work and presentation.
@@slippingsnake thank you very much my friend.
@Mythvision podcast. You know I’m not a fan or hater of your channel I actually just found your channel yesterday and I watched one Video about Paul and the trinity and how you disproved his teaching using sources from Christian books, Jesus himself and the Bible and the contradictions all showed how inconsistent it was. It was easy to collapse. But then I saw a Video that you guys did about my prophet invading Palestine? Haha tittle was confusing . Even though I didn’t wanna watch I forced myself to see what you will say about my beloved prophet. But this is where your bias and inconsistent showed it’s face. The whole time you were using a scale to measure the weight of every religion meaning using its books or resources available at there time but all of the sudden when it comes to Islam you want to use meter( ) to measure the weight? Meaning using other peoples sources to judge them by???. A complete switch. So now if you were consistent though and are not afraid or hiding something you would judge Islam by it’s book or it’s early scholars or heck it’s prophet and his claims and make as see as you have done w Pauls teachings right but nooo your gonna judge Islam it by Christian resources??? Explain that… how injustice you are. You claim to have expert on their field in that video but they lack common sense. I swear I’m not angry just surprised by how crude you are to trying to prove my religion is false my using a religion u said is false religion like trinity of Christianity and demolished it…..See if what I am saying goes to your head.
thank you for promoting Islam by doubting its history which in fact the history of Islam is the history of a religion that is the fastest perpuated compare to other religions (so do you also have doubts about other religions?)
@@nidjoelunofficial8396 you can have your doubts about your beliefs but if we were to have doubts about our beliefs we would end up like you. So enough w the fake joyful tears ok. And move along. Nothing was disproven yet. Just fake flairs and dust in peoples eyes. We have unshakable believe in our creator Allah. Alhamdullillah. Even a video like this is not worthy of standing in our path let alone shake us. ☺️
I've always thought that Mohammed being said to have died in Arabia in 632 AD was a way for the early Islamic sources to establish him as a Moses figure, so it's interesting to hear all of this talk of Exodus, Joshua and re-taking the Jerusalem and the Holly Land.
Interesting point!
The whole Arabia part of the story is a fabrication. Mecca never had the water to sustain a population; it still doesn't. It has to have water pumped in from desalination plants from Jeddah.
Mecca only became important, because it was a pilgrimage site, and this occurred after the 680s, when the Black Rock of the Kabba was stolen from its original Kabba in Petra, and transported to Mecca.
You had massive aquifer/water transport projects happening in the 800s, if memory serves correctly. This aquifer ended up so overused, the water dried up in the 1950s.
Hope this is of help to you.
@Horseradish Power All very interesting. There was definitely a lot going on that hasn't been preserved or transmitted to us. 👍
@@horseradishpower9947 omg that stupid petra argument is long debunked by a non muslim
@@A13b100 debunked by David King th-cam.com/video/68ZjKJeCuyQ/w-d-xo.html
Excellently conducted and very enjoyable and interesting interview. Well done.
One question that I would have liked to have seen put to SJS is whether he thinks the Qur'an's references to a place it calls the 'masjid al-haram' (the sacred place of prostration)/'maqam Ibrahim' (station of Abraham)/'Kaaba', etc are references to the Jerusalem temple. It seems to me overwhelming likely that they are and that the Qur'an's instructions to the believers to expel their enemies from where the believers had themselves been previously expelled, were composed in the late 620s/early 630s with this Palestine campaign in mind.
SJS appears to believe that the Qur'an was canonised in the late 7C, and so these references may have, at least in their final edit, related to the story of Muhammad in Mecca. However, this view seems to me to counter the consensus of manuscript specialists that the Qur'an was canonised (in so far as it ever has been) by the mid-7C.
Really nice to read your commendation for Derek and the ideas re Jerusalem. I'm familiar with all that from your own channel which appears to have a respectful neutral stance in contrast to some others. It's disappointing to say the least that scholarship is used to drive evangelical agendas. Mythvision is refreshingly even handed, open minded, gracious and simply discovery driven. Maybe you could be interviewed here?
@@nzmaryb9523 Thank you for the kind and supportive words. I started my channel when I was between jobs but then I started work (teaching) and have no time for anything any more. However, if I tech again next year I shall hopefully have all my material prepped and be able to restart where I left off.
I have not been entirely idle Islam-wise though. I have now written my own Jerusalem thesis down in an article, which I think is the medium that we need to embrace to impact wider academia. Hopefully it will be ready to put on the Internet by Easter. In it I shall make several arguments based upon the wording of the Qur'an that I have not put forward before on the topic. If my arguments are as sound as I believe them to be, I think people will find my article a significant advance in the study of early Islam.
I differ slightly with your comments on evangelists. I am a Christian myself (RC) and have no problem with others bringing their own faith into the discussion. Indeed, the courage, enthusiasm (and resources) of evangelical Christians has helped massively to promote this whole area of research. So long as whatever is done is well-intentioned and done in a spirit of truth, which by and large it seems to be.
@@paulellis5101 The church has a great tradition and experience in academic exchanges and dialogue, we believe that fruits our works of our researchers and adherents of old provided significant work that served as catalysts that is being utilized the the most effective Protestant voices of this day and age (i.e. Jay Smith, David Wood, and others). The Church adherents that polemicize rather than dwell in charitable internal scholarship is in the minority.
It is part of our same tradition of having no problem with Protestants, bringing their own faith and works into the discussion. Jay Smith and David Wood even have said that the Church is in the wrong, but that does not dissuade us from engaging, learning, and growing with them. Thus we certainly look forward to always working with our Protestant brothers, and sisters, in fact also with Muslims as well.
@@aevumcorvi2108 I don't see the church's great academic resources being brought to bear on the issue of Islam at the moment. GSR has done excellent work, but has very obvious limits.
@@paulellis5101 That is correct and we agree, sadly the Church can potentially do more. But of course we respect this is not only the focus of the Church.. Cheers!
Truth be told I think it's possible that the Muhammad and Jerusalem thing could be some kind of mix-up on the part of the Roman sources. I think the simplest explanation would be that these soldiers were identified or perhaps identified themselves to somebody as followers of Muhammad and they just assumed that was the war leader. It is also possible that someone may have given somebody out of date information and it led to confusion
When you have 9 independent reports spanning from the Latin, Greek and Armenian all the way to the Arabic and Syriac community then it becomes fact: Muhammad was leading an invasion of Palestine 🇵🇸
Well we need to check sanad of this nonislamic external account. They have their standard we have our own !
@andanandan6061 we know what the isnaad is for Sebeos: escaped eye witness prisoners-of-war
you know how alot of muslims are named muhammed ? maybe a different follower named muhamed
@@websitemartian how many Muhammad's believe in the 2nd coming of Christ as mentioned in the Greek text Doctrina Jacobi?
I can’t believe you are interviewing the Stephen J Shoemaker , amazing interview
@@inquisitivemind007 you are right
Check out what happens next in the Robert Hoyland interview Derek did called "Was Umar the Messiah?"
I did watch it too, we are slowly but surly finding out what had truly happened in the seventh century
I immensely appreciate and support every and any kind of academic, science and mathematic research. All knowledge leads only to more knowledge. All questions lead to answers. I would like to extend my gratitude for these two gentlemen for the amazing discussion and dissecting of information they present. Bravo 🤝👌
Love it. I've added all three books to this years list! 😉👍
Check out interview about the backstory that Derek did with James Howard-Johnston.
@Inquisitive Mind yea, I did do the other day...very interesting...purchased his audiobook 'The Last Great War of Antiquity' just yesterday! 👍
Upon the death of Caesar, Augustus changed his name to Caesar and everyone called him Caesar.
This, exactly. I would imagine the same happened with people like Moshe perhaps?
I love this channel because its based on desire to know and curious for mlre knowledge...
Not based on ego , to defend a religion because they are born in that or to destroy a religion because they don't like ....
Allahu Akbar
God bless you all brother derek and brother Stephen 🙏
Alhamdulillah praise to Allah for the religion 💙
Obviously people seen saracens and the rumor started that Mohammed the leader is here.
There are more manuscripts in the Robert Hoyland interview Derek did called "Was Umar the Messiah?"
@@inquisitivemind007 this is the more historically plausible scenario. Umar capitalizing on Muhammadian success is not a far stretch. Be it skin deep or through authentic belief is a different story. What many fail to incorporate in this discussion would be things like the ridda wars. And shia dissent in the face of perceived injustice from the 3 rashidun caliphs. I have personally even theorized that umar and abu bakr etc may have been resentful of Muhammads success, and definitely were not having it continue with Ali. This is without bias. I was raised in strict sunni tradition.
Derek, can I please make a suggestion. When you place scans up on the screen, people like myself are scanning them so we can then use them in our own outreach to Muslims. So it's vital that the exact careful reference is given, otherwise I cannot use them. Please do give more careful attention to this in future videos, i.e. if it's the reference from a book, then give the name of the book, the author and the page number in text, bearing in mind that some of us are using old PCs which take sometime to make a scan and images that flash up on the screen for a second or two are very difficult to scan as for technical reasons I cannot pause the video, as when I scan otherwise the sliding image appears at the bottom of the screen. Always remember that some people will want to make use your research, so please make it REALLY easy for us to make scans and to properly reference those scans. Here is one of my own videos, i am just starting and I have a lot to learn, but I am telephoning Mosques around the UK: th-cam.com/video/qNEIy9lONgY/w-d-xo.html
Great interview on a really interesting topic with a very knowledgeable guest.
My only gripe is that Bart Ehrman is his mentor and his esteem for him has shaped his view of the historicity of Jesus question.
Abu Jaafar Muhammad bin Habib Al-Baghdadi wrote a book called Al-Mukhbar, and when I read it completely, I found that he was aware of the falsification of the biography of Muhammad at the hands of the Abbasids and Umayyads. It is clear that he was practicing piety through the style of writing the text, and he tried to pass on some information to correct the biography:
1- He mentioned by name 6 people who wrote the Qur’an during the time of Muhammad when he was alive. They are:
-Saad bin Ubaid bin Al-Numan bin Qais bin Omar, bin Zaid bin Umayyah bin Zaid bin Malik bin Awf bin Omar, and bin Awf bin Malik bin Al-Aws, and he was the first to compile the Qur’an.
-Abu Al-Darda' Awimar bin Zaid bin Qays bin Aisha bin Umayyah bin Malik bin Aamir bin Adi bin Ka'b bin Al-Khazraj bin Al-Harith.
-Moaz bin Jabal bin Omar and bin Aws bin Aadhi bin Adi bin Kaab bin Amr bin Adi bin Saad bin Ali bin Asad bin Sarda bin Tazid bin Jashm bin Al Khazraj.
-(Abu Zaid) who is Thabit bin Zaid bin Al-Numan bin Malik bin Imru’ Al-Qais bin Malik bin Tha’labah bin Ka’b bin Al-Khazraj
-Ubayy bin Kaab bin Qais bin Ubaid bin Zaid bin Muawiyah bin Omar and bin Malik bin Al-Najjar.
- Zaid bin Thabit bin Al-Dahhak bin Zaid bin Luthan bin Omar and bin Abdul Awf bin Ghanam bin Malik bin Al-Najjar.
2- Mentioning the date of Muhammad’s birth: The writer says that Amr ibn al-Mundhir, the son of Imru’ al-Qais and Amr, who was a stone grinder, reigned for sixteen years. For eight years and eight months of Amr's reign, the Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, was born.
The Marigan inscription in Saudi Arabia mentions that Abraha attacked Arab tribes in the year 552 AD, and installed Amr ibn al-Mundhir as ruler in the same year. Based on this material evidence and this news, Muhammad’s birth is in the year 560 AD and not 570 as the official story claims.
3- Sending an army to Palestine:
The writer mentions the text
| Year nine. In which, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, Ali bin Abi Talib, may God be pleased with him, was sent with an army to Yemen, and he returned without encountering any plot.
In it, Osama bin Zaid was transported to Darum (now Deir al-Balah in Gaza) from the land of Palestine.
On an army, he returned victorious and returned safely .
So we have here a clear statement that Muhammad sent an army and mentioned the name of the army commander and that he fought in Gaza, most likely he fought against the Ghassanids to secure the Levantine trade routes to the Arabian Peninsula.
This is so bloody interesting!
Fascinating guest. I will definitely read some of his work. Would love his opinion on Dan Gibson's work about original Mecca being Petra Jordan. Gibson would be a great guest if you can get him. Thanks Derek!
Derek also release your conversation with Haythem Sidky
I'm waiting for Dr. Hythem's approval. He was waiting for his website to be launched.
What are you looking 👀 for in Hythem's video?
@@inquisitivemind007 What an actual Quranic scholar has to say about the Quran,
and not what some ignorant anti-muslim polemicist or anti-muslim Christian polemicists or a guy on youtube has to say about the Quran
@@merlinx8703 I agree as on my channel that's who I source from.
@@inquisitivemind007 you edit there clips
31:55 "...when they (Muslims) invaded the near east..." That was during the earliest time of the faith. But according to popular belief, all the middle east and near east very happily embraced the new faith. They all must have said, please please Mo come to my village, please we love your new faith. And they lived very happily thereafter to this day! Wow what a turn of events
The early Muslims lived in prosperity and prosperity, and Baghdad and Andalusia were beacons of knowledge and scholars. While Europeans live in the Middle Ages and do not know how to use water after excrement (and they still are 🤣).
As for the cause of the situation of Muslims and their wars today, it is because of colonialism and the interventions of your countries and their planes that turned their lives into chaos in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia...etc.
Is is possible that it was just a case of mistaken identity? I mean they mistaken umar ( the head honcho of the Muslim caliphate ) at that time for a camel valet. Its not like they had seen him before.
And Derek, Muhammad was indeed a shepherd during his stay with the bedouins. When he got back to Mecca to live with his uncle abi thalib who was a caravan trader, he learned trading as time went along.
Later with his first wife khadija he really started his trade as merchant
The whole of Islam is "mistaken identity" .... nonsense to the core.
Imagine believing that sperm originates from between the backbone and ribs of a man or that the sun sets in a pool of black muddy water or that ants talk or meteors being missiles to shoot down eavesdropping demons... i mean the Koran is littered with utter bull crap that 85% of momins don't even know exists within its pages because of the obvious language barrier that keeps them ignorant...
In the book of Sean Anthony the shepherd identity of Mohammed is questioned as far as I remember. This would be a way of putting Mohammed in line of earlier prophets such as Abraham who was a shepherd/nomad
@@inquisitivemind007 eschatology. It's just which is more probable. Don't rely too hard on rationality. Sometimes if you tip your fedora to low its gonna block your view
@@cosmiccruxbot3841 using the older firmware I see..
@@mutamirmukhzani1240Hilarious.... but if you consider kissing a pagan fertility rock and following a corrupt womanizing child mol ester "new firmware" ... then absolutely... old all the way dude!
Wrong? Jerusalem was the main point and only when the Muslims where in Medina did the Kibla change to Mecca…Muslims before that prayed towards Jerusalem
There were no mecca before islm was born. mecca is the disneyland of islm only exist as a way to gain money from poor people beliving in all the lies and nonsense about mecca being the city of islm. Theres no proof or archeological evidence of the city mecca in arabian desert. Its all just sand and dust....
The Holy Land is the residence of the Chosen People of God just like the Vatican 🇻🇦 is the residence of the Pope. According to Islam ☪️ God is upset with the Jews ✡️ and now Muhammad and his followers are the new Chosen People of God hence his residence is now the Holy Land Q5:21 - that's why he was heading that way.
Great content.
The Islamic sources absolutely cannot be trusted: they have deliberately miss translated the Quran for years.
@@inquisitivemind007 - my partner is Lebanese and speaks fluent Arabic. Google translate even gets the transliteration incorrect.
If you take the use of the pronouns in certain verses - one in particular where a fluid is ejected from…. Loins
It’s deliberately miss translated to cover the fact it’s saying man is created from a fluid ejected between the backbone and ribs, I.e. Semen
Adam Seeker did a presentation with Murad on the Aramaic substrate in the Quran. Big big eye opener.
Be prepared for Adams crazy laugh though.
Bait
@@chadafiy - what’s bait? This is true historical research
Sorry how does Hadiths getting mistranslated make them untrustworthy? U cant always translate something 100% especially from arabic
The first hadith... It's quite obviously metaphorical lol. Not "God time" but quite obviously metaphorical. As for preparation for his death, he made it clear who was to succeed him many times (the most obvious occasion being at Ghadir Khumm). Also, Shias do not say that references to Ali's successorship were purged from the Qur'an, Stephen has got that very wrong.
You need to remember one important thing, when you read the ancient writing you will notice one thing that because of absence of surname people used to be called in the name of their parents. So when a ancient scripture says Isaiah or Isa or X and Y or Mohammed will name them in this way: isa ibn Maryam or Mohammed ibn Abdullah or Moawiyah ibn abusofian or Abdul Malik ibn Marvan. When a ancient scripture writes Mohammed or mehmet and if this name was a common name which Mohammed or mehmet they mean?!
Check out what happens next in the Robert Hoyland interview Derek did called "Was Umar the Messiah?"
@@inquisitivemind007
Which Omar?! And who’s messiah was he?!
@@hidden.history Umar ibn Khattab. Watch the interview to know more.
There is one cool thing about Buddhism.
There is no essential miracle in Buddhism which could be undone by an honest scientific inquiry.
Of course there are supernatural aspects to the faith such as re-incarnation, Metta, Dharma, Karrma of course. But also there is the story of Buddha's painless birth after which he took 3 steps and spoke. And his Parinibana where he transcends his mortal body and attains Nibana (Nirvana).
Science cannot prove or disprove whether we re-incarnate or have karmic merits or debts. It's non-falsifiable, you can't double blind this kind of thing.
Invent time travel and go back in time and prove that Guatama was not born painlessly. Prove that he died like any other person.
This would would not affect the way Buddhism is practiced at all.
Islam is the true continuation of Judaism. But because there were Jews that would not accept Prophet Mohammad and they wanted to control the brand and narrative of Judaism to hold power, Islam was brought to the world as a different religion and a new covenant, but it is the same as the original true Judaism and Christianity in its core tenants. It is a mirror image of the meat and potatoes of the original Judaism, but presented and expanded upon in the Arabic language. It is the completion and final revelation of the Abrahamic religions.
Regarding the existence of both Mohammed and Jesus. If they are demonstrated not to exist but be mythical, it is absolutely a death blow to both religions, which is why it is so contested. However if they existed, their stories might be so mythologied that it is irrelevant or a minor issue whether they existed or not..what I find awkward is that the likelihood of existence legitimises standard narratives. It does not. It only allows it to avoid the end stop of mythicism. (Technicalky there is a way to say Jeeus as an angel allows a certain sort of fundamentalist chistianity but that is an esoteric thought that all secularists like myself would discount)
Pretty sure both existed. However what we dont understand today, is that even before jesus there were strong movements of burning books and history of the "conquered". New movements always sought to snuff out old ones. We dont quite understand in the information age.
Meaning that these figures probably existed in a very different way. Jesus the violent revolutionary terrorist? Muhammad the scriptural prodigy from a young age, literary genius and statesman? However we are told he was a lowly merchant orphan, and ILLITERATE?
@@c5quared626 No you can't be "pretty sure" especially with Jesus.
@@SuhaibZafar I can be pretty sure, based on the evidence of both. It can't be proven. Thus inconclusive. So I can theorize that, yes, both religions mythologized the men
@@c5quared626 mythology is true for Jesus but not For Muhammad. There are various direct witness account narrates abt Muhammad and His miracles with compelete narrator's name and biography. It is not just hearsay. There were His closest companions lived 80 years after His death up to the early Islamic empire. While for Jesus We don't have much evidence for Him unfortunate. Muslim doesn't hope much when it comes to historical evidence for Jesus. They believe in Him bcz Muhammad told them He existed.
Have become a fan of this time period since reading Tom Hollands work on the early years of Islam and professor Donner’ believers work. Greatly appreciate professors and scholars such as these that do deep dives into such an amazing time period and the creation of the 2nd largest religion on Earth. Would love to see these scholars do a panel on this subject.
Check out the backstory interview Derek did with James Howard-Johnston.
@@inquisitivemind007 thanks and will do. It’s nice to see how much Derek enjoys doing these interviews.
@@mattstakeontheancients7594 Check out what happens next in the Robert Hoyland interview Derek did called "Was Umar the Messiah?"
@@inquisitivemind007 thanks will do.
@ 01:04:00 what 😳, did he claim that new verses interduced and people said they didn't hear them before?, this is so stupid. He made this up
1) according to him, the Islamic narrative is not reliable ; and
2) since there are no non-islamic resources for the events upon and after Prophet's death; therfore
3) He fabricated his own narrative for what happened!
What kind of scholarship is this!
@@inquisitivemind007 what is the relation between the nonsense in your reply and Shoemaker's fabrication
amazing
Please interview professor Roy Casagranda
Is there any evidence of said Armenian source at that time Having any Contact with Christians in the Hijjaz??
What you are talking about is ghazwat Tabuk and it is even in the Quran. In this ghazwat, the Byzantines didn't fight against him. There 2 ghazwats in the life of Prophet Muhammad before his death. Tabuk is the only one lead by Prophet Muhammad. A one before it ghazwat Mo'ta where Muslims lost the fight after fighting Byzantines and Christian Arabs. The third one was prepared just before Prophet Muhammad's death it was sent after his death led by Osama ben Zaid.
Why are you calling the Battle of Mu'tah - Ghazwah Mu'tah if Muhammad wasn't there physically? Or was he there originally?
@@inquisitivemind007 I am talking about another one called ghazwet Tabuk. It happened at a latter time and it is the last ghazwa by prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
@@inquisitivemind007 Although it is named ghazwat Mu'tah, the prophet was not with them but it was a big army more than 2000 men.
@Mohamed Elkholy the real reason why it's called Ghazwah Mu'tah is because in the original version Muhammad was camped nearby.
@@inquisitivemind007 do you have a source for this information? There is another reason for this name. This battle had an army including most of the Muslims capable of fighting and it was sent based on the prophet exact command specifying the three leaders for the army who were killed in the battle. That is why it is considered a ghazwah like the battles lead by the prophet himself.
Umar referred to himself as the praised one MHMD. The Dome of the Rock is the arab Ishmaelite attempt at building the third temple.
45:21
It seems that the historian was writing history while drunk 😂😂
0:40 You're wrong Derek, the Doctrina Jacobi never says that 'Muhammad' of 'Mecca' was in Palestine. And what he so called said corresponds much more to Jewish expectation (the Messiah free Israel from Christians) than what can we read in the Quran where there is no announce of a Messiah.
We know it's Muhammad because of corroboration about the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Christ - see the James Howard-Johnston interview Derek did.
@@inquisitivemind007 and who was this Jacobi. Did He meet prophet personally or saw Him riding horse during the siege of Jerusalem? We need more than just anynomous story. This is from Christian source. We can not expect much from them to tell accurate story abt Our Prophet when they can't even preserved the holy Bible.
@andanandan6061 Muhammad's goal was the Holy Land from the Nile to the Euphrates including Q5:21 which he was facing for 17/18 months before the qibla changed to Mecca. Towards the end of his life he engaged in Zionist activities to capture the Holy Land Q5:21 as shown in this interview - that's why the Jews thought Muhammad was the Messiah as reported in Theopanes 817AD and why someone in the Jewish community in the mid 8th century wrote in The Secrets of Rabbi Šim‘on ben Yohai "...He shall raise up over them a prophet [Muhammad] in accordance with His will, and He will subdue the land [Israel] for them; and they shall come and restore it with grandeur..."
There actually an announce of a Messiah coming in the Quran it’s about the coming of Jesus before ends of time in surah 4:159
@@etamdavid4004 -159- And there is no one of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on
the day of judgment he will be a witness against them- (Y. Ali translation) Nothing of an announce of the return of Jesus here.
More of this guy and those like him, and less of that dweeb Jay Smith would be super helpful in uncovering Islam's early history
Jay Smith and his likes would not like to hear this as they believe that Mohammed never existed.
An excellent and educated discussion
Just so you know same with rachel too Derrick .
Did this document still exist in Syria
Excellent. Would love to learn more
These two gentlemen are both wrong about who gets Jerusalem... Abraham only gets the land of the Goyim, Ishmael may become only one great nation, Goy, and the Covenant is between only God and Isaac; monogamist, older prophetess mother, a farmer-not violent past orslist, prays for his wife's barrenness (unlike Abraham)...The Messenger tells Jacob that Abraham is his father; so the deal with God is off?
how can you take a hypothesis and act objectively if you put tradition aside, you use american newspapers sources to find out how russia
this is interesting, why not approach from military side like khalid ibn alwalid he lives around 592
very famous in wars history like one of his famous yarmouk battle against byzantine empire
That is covered in Robert Hoyland's book 📖 called in God's Path.
Khalid was the praised one (Muhammad)
@Inquisitive Mind
Islam didn't exist then and the title or Caliph did not come into existence until Abdl-Malik.
I Yes, yes, "monotheist renewal moment" @48:00-49:00 of video. Another term is "restorationism". Remember King Tuts' dad? Only one true God? The one true Egyptian religion? All other Egyptian polytheistic priests are wrong and outlawed? The "promise" to Abraham is a "monotheistic renewal movement" also. Elijah on Mt. Carmel the same? The Maccabean revolt? Philo's assembly before Caligula, the Jewish wars 66-74 ce were all restorationist movements. Jesus, fictional or historic is the exemplified "true Judaism", or " idealized Judaism" in the writer's minds (4 versions to add different emphasis). Why would the ecumenical Jewish/Arab/Christian movement be any different?
I have listened to your program a few times and you come off as biased against Islam. You can believe that Moses, Abraham and Jesus received revelation from God , but you say Mohammad (PBUH) must have been talking to some Jews or Rabbis.
The Quran is way different than the previous scriptures because they have been corrupted, probably by people like yourself.
Doesn't sound like you have listened to the program. He does not believe Moses or Abraham really existed. As for Jesus the channel started with the mysticist (hence the name Myth Vision) position that Jesus never really existed. He seems to now be open to historical Jesus theory but is still a non believer. Actually listen to his program instead of saying that you did and you will realize that it is a secular channel exploring religions from a secular historical perspective.
Thats kind of important when talking about sarah to be able to seperate that . And let it not be lost on you saying they say this and that will come out of abraham , okay , so Derricks now saying all arabs came out of sarah . I thought that sarah encouraged abraham to have intercourse with a concubine and God said many nations will come out of abraham . Derrick needs you to believe all arabs ( sarahsins) came out of sarah .
Introduce Kamal Salibi's stuff to your audience.
Why would muslim cover up that part of history?
So Muhammad's biography fits as close to Deutronomy 18:18 as possible by having him die before his followers capture the Holy Land just like Moses did.
First it's not called an invasion it's called leberation from the Roman occupation, and that was during the reign of khalifa Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, and secondly, this is found in history books and Islamic history, and the chief bishop of the city handed over the keys to the city to khalifa Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, and this was not during the reign of our Profit Muhammad, but after his departure. Personally, I do not know why you host non-Muslims ( with rispect to them) to speak and discuss Islamic matters, at one time you discuss history, at one time you discuss the Prophet’s biography, and at another time the Qur’an and religion … what do you want to reach?
48:51 yes
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (ﷺ) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains.
Sahih al-Bukhari 6982
These are not authentic and are called Al-Bukhari Comments and not Sahih Al-Bukhari. So go and learn from Muslim scholars instead of copying and pasting
@@AbdulMalikSaleh-mz9js so you believe that Sahih Bukhari isn't Sahih?
@@inquisitivemind007
No. Sahih al-Bukhari is of two types, which is a true chain of narrators. And it contains the comments of Al-Bukhari and they differ from her
@@AbdulMalikSaleh-mz9js
You're very wrong. It's not a comment from Bukhari, it's a mursal report narrated by Ibn Shihab.
@@apolloniusoftyana7049
No, I did not make a mistake. I say it is not a hadith connected to the chains of men. This means that it is (sent).
th-cam.com/video/ifLB9vDlGTY/w-d-xo.html
Myth vision becoming a conspiracy vision soon
Syria and Palestine always been semitic people's, Greeks, Persian roman's, we're Indo-European invaders, this basic fact you should never forget ,plus the descendents of Abraham, become monotheistic, since 3,900 years,
Mohammad is a Title of the Prophets , Not the name of the Prophet ,
He's slightly misrepresenting what the "gold standard" historiographical criteria are: multiple INDEPENDENT attestations. Even then it's not 100%. There are many attestations of the miracle of Zeus throwing thunderbolts for Marcus Aurelius and no one believes that really happened. If he's going on about how he's 100% on all these things that any prudent scholar would say are unclear, then he has a very optimistic view of what he claims he knows. Kinda shows why Biblical or Quranic scholar use different standards of evidence, and how the rest of us should view such statements with skepticism. See Dr Hector Avalos "The End of Biblical Studies" instead of Bart Erhman's work.
Check out the Robert Hoyland interview Derek did called Was Umar the Messiah?
@@inquisitivemind007 He condemn Christianity and worship of man and believe in God is His Own Son.
Derek, did you know , if you dont got premium... you get mormon church propaganda?? O_O
0:43 Tornedo 😒😂😂
The wording of Sebeos text, is very funny! It clearly shows, that the text is constructed and added to Sebeos book later on. Just think, what Sebeos think is important for him to mention is, forbidding consumption of pork and alcohol, and speaking truthfully! Muhammed has clearly advised his followers to lie, and be dishonest!
There is corroboration with Sebeos found in Maximus the Confessor 662AD letter 14 "...to see this barbarous people from the desert overrunning another’s lands as if they were their own! And to see this civilized polity devoured by savage and raging beasts, who have the mere appearance of only the form of a human beings! And to see the Jewish people, who have long delighted in the flow of human blood...."
@@inquisitivemind007
How exactly Doctrina Jacobi corroborate in Sebeos account?
I mean, according to Muslims own sources we read about nothing but war, plundering, and rape. So, I expect an external source like Sebeos says something about that. But he doesn't do that. Instead, he paints a pious face for Muslims. Sometimes, one should read between the lines too!
@@inquisitivemind007
I see, that is an interesting theme to study, but that doesn't talk about Muslims. I think, to begin with, there was the Arab conquest of Persia. And Islam gradually developed among some Christian sects, and eventually emerged as a new religion.
Try to host Muslim sheikhs to discuss these issues because your guest's discussions are funny and we don't want your viewers to be without understanding the truth.
Because the channel's goal is enlightening and educational, isn't it?
Just as there are enlighteners and teachers, there are those who teach ignorance .. There are many Salafi preachers and sheikhs that can explain to you, such as Sheikh Asim Al-Hakim, Sheikh Othman bin Al-Farouq, Shamsi, Farid, Sheikh Hassan Somali, Bilal Philips, Dr. Taher White and Abu Osama Al-Dhahabi
-Sheikh Assim Al hakim ، Dr Muhammad Salah ، Shaykh Abu Usamah At-Thahabi ، Sheikh Shamsi - Dr.Tahir Wyatt, Karim AbuZaid- Sheikh Othman bin Al-Farouq،
ـ Shaykh Hasan Somali ، Abdur Raheem McCarthy's - ـ Ustaadh Muhammad Tim Humble
, Abdur Raheem McCarthy's - Sheikh Abdul Rahman Al-Dimashqieh
. Sheikh Bilal Philips
، Farid Responds ،
And many others.
Funny? Ignorance? Maybe you need to watch what happened next in the Robert Hoyland interview Derek did called Was Umar the Messiah?
@@inquisitivemind007 Dear, the sources of the Prophet’s biography are in Arabic, the guests and no one speaks Arabic.. How do you learn from ignorant people who do not know how to read their sources of information..
How can I learn from them when I am an Arab, understand the language of the Qur’an, the Sunnah and Islamic history?
Therefore, I am honest with you, and I still say do not host unknown people who make you a laughingstock in the content.
There is nothing wrong with presenting doubts about Islam, but invite someone who understands these doubts and answers them with what he has understood from the Qur’an, the Sunnah and Islamic history.
Because there are no secrets in Islam and we accept discussion and debate with a sophisticated understanding.. not by hosting ignorant people in the language and the sciences of the Qur’an, the sciences of the Sunnah, history and grammar, and you want me to learn from them.
I advise and love to see good content that we respect with scientific standards..
The fact that our children are better educated than the hosts criticizing Islam.
I say it advised because I love the owner of the channel who wants to reach the truth
But the guests are at their lowest scientific and intellectual decadence, so they will be a joke to us.
Their criticisms are weightless because Islam has been criticized for 1,400 years and its supporters are increasing
The goal is to provide useful and honest content to followers and that's just what I'm looking for.
Greetings to you .
@@عبدالله-ن6ه2ص his guest don't know how to speak Arabic? Then how did Sean Anthony translate Ma'mur ibn Rashid into English then? Using Google translate? What about the other guests Derek brought on: Marijn van Putten and Hythem Sidky. I suppose they don't speak Arabic either? It's this delusion of yours that Islam is invincible, unbeatable and iron plated why Islam ☪️ is the fastest shrinking religion in the world based on conversion rate and not the fastest growing. It's only because you breed than anyone else that you think you are the fastest growing religion. Here are the guests Derek has bought on that speak Arabic th-cam.com/video/fu0hGLzw7eo/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/xkMqKB5SM1A/w-d-xo.html
@@inquisitivemind007 You think that you are knowledgeable and you are ignorant of many things.
Advice loving learn the Arabic language and understand the sciences of the Arabic language and the sciences of the Qur’an and the sciences of hadith, after that criticize with knowledge.
Copying and pasting does not help you and a waste of your life.
And the links you sent are funny..so try to understand Islam and the keys to understanding it is learning the Arabic language.
Watch the Sheikh Othman bin Al-Farouq channel in books for learning Arabic and the brother Shamsi channel in explaining the books on learning Arabic.. Then you can talk to me and discuss freely.. But it is difficult to talk with people who do not understand hadith or Islamic history from authentic Arabic sources.
Greetings to you .
@@عبدالله-ن6ه2ص let me try again. These guests Derek has bought on SPEAK ARABIC. They are Sean Anthony Marijn van Putten, Hythem Sidky and Shady Nasser. Which part of the phrase "they speak Arabic" don't you understand? Also if you believe I am ignorant then come onto my channel and expose me.
Were they Talking about the Same Mohammed That supposedly came From the Hijjaz?
Check out what happens next in the Robert Hoyland interview Derek did called "Was Umar the Messiah?"
@@inquisitivemind007 thanks l saved that one in my emails so it’s Definitely on my to do list. Do you Follow Derek on you Tube.
@@TheJo201 yeah I love the stuff he does on Islam with the academics.
@@inquisitivemind007 He is totally amazing,the things he has been saying with all these Academics made me Rethink a whole Lot of What l was Tought So Iam now Deconstructing.
@samuel russell the last one Derek did called "Was Umar the Messiah?" was incredible. I've never seen so many original manuscripts in one interview! An absolute treat for those who are into academia.
The prophet in Islamic sources was shepherd as a boy and then later got into trade...
There is no contradiction
Sorry to debunk you there, the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) never visited Palestine to start with so the very core of your video is misinformation ,however, I want to thank you for those references that will be used to debunk other people like you who lack knowledge of Islam. LOLZZZZZZZ
@@inquisitivemind007he did in miraj. Didn’t conquer it tho
Never visited Palestine? So where was Muhammad when he was have his face to face conversation in Q37:137 if he wasn't in Palestine then?
>more random Dan Gibson style conspiracy theories. 😅
Orientationlists will always put roman sources on a higher pedestal
U probably just scared of realizing islm was just a false cult based on lies and fabrications. Its never too late to come out of the illusion and into the real world.LOOOL
@@inquisitivemind007 David king? LOOOL, only able to come up with his own wishful thinking. The biggest misconception about islm is that its peaceful. The leader of this cult was a paedo warlord
@@avtaras well at least we can try to put primary sources as priority. Then secondary yadayadayada. And I don't think the opponent sources should be valued more than local sources.
@@mutamirmukhzani1240 it is not just scriptures but archeological evidence, coins, buidlings and ruins and inscription on them.
This gives very different picture of the situation, though often we see a wide bandwith of Interpretation.
Sorry guys , but your way off on alot of things.
This video was pure nonsense. This Shoemaker guy is obviously biased. He made so many blunders and errors I dont know where to begin, but whatever this is clearly a biased channel against Islam so whatever.
Pure nonsense? He has proven from Sebeos 660AD and Doctrina Jacobi 634AD combined that Muhammad was leading the invasion of Palestine 🇵🇸. It's your biographers that are writing ✍ nonsense especially when we have Ibn Hisham admitting editing parts Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad out regardless of whether those parts are true or not.
@@inquisitivemind007
Ibn Ishaq is not authoritative like Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. We only take from ibn Ishaq narrations if they corroborates with sahih hadiths (primarily, the 6 hadith books). There are definitely fabrications in ibn Ishaq.
Also it seems that the writings of Sebeos and Jacobi mistook the army of Prophet Muhammad for himself. Btw, this happens a lot in war literature, where the main leader is mistaken for his army. It is very likely that they heard about the message of Islam and the mission of the Prophet and heard about his campaign at the same time and thought that he must have still been alive.
Lastly, the prof admits multiple times that all of these theories of his are mostly speculative and hypothetical, and that is why academia doesnt engage with these strange theories of his.
@dom I hear that about Ibn Ishaq all the time. Then perhaps you can kindly explain to everyone why is Tabari 923AD, this award winning biographer th-cam.com/video/yR2hHtsZf70/w-d-xo.html and Ibn Hajar al Asqalani 1449AD doing using Ibn Ishaq as you can see 2:54 of this th-cam.com/video/DUOM5QdN9XY/w-d-xo.html. If the person in Doctrina Jacobi 634AD was mistaken for one of Muhammad's companions then why is there corroboration about the 2nd coming of Christ? Are you saying that's just a coincidence? It's clear that the person in Doctrina Jacobi is Muhammad.
@@inquisitivemind007 as a muslims idc what you said. Cause you proof muhammed and palestine existed which lot people disagree so thank you
@@A13b100 Surely starting with the backstory and then listening to both sides of the story is the way to determine what happened isn't it? If one wanted to know what happened during the partition of India wouldn't one start with the backstory (the British rule of India) and then listen to both sides of the story during partition (India's side and then Pakistan's side) and then reconstruct what happened? Likewise surely to know what happened wouldn't you start with the backstory (Byzantine-Persian war) and then listen to both sides of the story (Muslim and non-Muslim sources) and then reconstruct what happened?
Derek you know I love ya but pronounce after me: Air-rub - not - A-rub.👏
You have to revise to much history to accept this nonsense. Firstly you have to reject that there were 4 khaliefs, and you have to reject the reason for Sunni Shia split. If abubakr and Umar were not the khalifs during concurring of Palestine and Syria then why did the Sunni Shia split happen
Muhammad aka the blessed one - was a title, not a first name, there were many leaders by that name at that time in that area, but still not yet any islam.
This is the key. If "Muhammad" was just a title, which it seems to be, then the leader of the Seraceans that may have come after the death of the original Muhammad could have been referred to as such.
Invading Israel
It's called the Holy Land as mentioned in Q5:21
U are proiving islam more than any thing else 😅
@@inquisitivemind007 🤣🤣
@@inquisitivemind007 😁
@@inquisitivemind007 dont u realize that ur argument is so weak that i dont want even to disprove it ...
Ok 😪i ll explain it once
Luke 13:33 is prophetasing the mesiah
Mesiah is quraan is clearly without doupt not mohammad
Jurosalem is sacred and at most important to moslems ... that is a whole other topic
@@inquisitivemind007 did the prophecy said anything about conquering jurosalem??
Couldnt mohammad just go and die there??
U are assuming a delusion
*So MythVision is now busy creating a new myth. At a time when information was hard to come by, a measly piece of paper by people ignorant of anything further than their immediate environs cannot constitute as solid evidence* ! I'm sorry this is less than the standard i was expecting.
When you have "multiple independent corroboration" then it becomes fact. Besides the reason why Muhammad wanted to capture Jerusalem and live there is because of Luke 13:33.
Opinions which you are entitled to, you have far more sources and an entire tradition of tawatur transmission reporting the opposite! But these conspiracy theories are interesting.
@@elliot7205 conspiracy theory? Maybe you can explain why the Battle of Mutah is called Ghazwah Mutah when Muhammad according to you wasn't there th-cam.com/video/ph9qbff5LCg/w-d-xo.html
@@inquisitivemind007 What multiple independent evidence are talking of. None! Luke? Oh yah, Gospel waffle!
@@inquisitivemind007 Hah! *He simply wasn't there. Who told you this waffle? And the place is "Mu'tah مُؤْتَة" . The battle is alternatively called either مَعْرَكَة مُؤْتَة, Maʿrakah Muʿtah, or غَزْوَة مُؤْتَة Ghazwah Muʿtah in sources, and just because it is called the latter at times does not mean Muhammad was there! You are being too simplistic!. At the Battle of Mu'tah there were these three commanders succession, as one died the other took over* :
*Commander 1 Zaid ibn Harithah*
*Commander2 Ja'far ibn Abi Talib - the prophet's cousin.*
*Commander3 Abdullah ibn Rawahah*
*He himself was in Madina at the time. You need to grow up* !
Yeah this ain't it chief
Hmm on one hand the scholar presented a lot of evidence and supporting arguments, but then on the other hand this guy in the comments said “nah”. How will I know what’s true?
It was never Jerusalem, it was Petra!
It was neither Jerusalem or Petra. It was about conquering the Abrahamic Holy Land which is from the Nile to the Euphrates.
1:39 - Weee
Great job Derek! Always great listening to these historians.
Finally no Ex Muslims but scholars!
I'm going to have Ex-Muslims on again in the future.
Never took the Ex-muslims seriously, especially Apuss
@@MythVisionPodcast Please start covering Hinduism as well
Apparently some Hindu and Hindutva fanatics think they are somehow better than Abrahamic Faiths😒
@@MythVisionPodcast it's a waste of time. They don't have anything to offer, except whining about things they don't understand and beyond their level of education. If you do that , then you're undermining these scholars. BTW I'm Muslims and I like to hear academics and scholars point of views and their research, without slandering or disrespecting other. More over aren't bias or driven by any type of missionaries.
@@youmnaification - but the problem is these scholars have a strong bias towards Islam.
Historians with no association towards any faith are more reliable.
Scholars deliberately miss translate the Quran when passages have fundamental errors
Wow woo wow, this was a gem Derek, fantastic guest and topic. Pre-Jewish war 'christianity' was Mosaic mono-theism and I suspect that pre-schism Islam was simply Mosaic mono-theism as well.
Mosaic monotheism flavoured by Arabic paganism, heterodox Christianity and gnosticism.
@@sonye-jin6737 I don't see Islam as very gnostic. Might be some manichaen influence in Muhammad being the "parcelate" and I heard mani may have considered himself the "seal of the prophets".
@@sonye-jin6737I'd also add Greek paganism in there with Dhu al-Qarnayn being Alexander the great and Buraq essentially being a Pegasus
Hey Derek, please try to interview someone from the Inarah group in Germany. They consider all these sources manipulated by later copyists. They rely only on coins and inscriptions.
He did with Peter von Sivers
Well taking in consideration those manuscripts, then they contradicts the Hadith collection and the Quran. Since these two sources confirm that yes Prophet Muhammad visited Jerusalem but not physically but spiritually riding on the back of a creation known as BURAQ that was like a kind of winged horse that’s the closest description we can get from the Islamic manuscripts. And this are not the only event where is narrated something like that but we have the story of Prophet Enoc or Idriss that according to the Quran was taken to heaven in the back of an angel or the story of Jesus son of Mary, that Allah took him to heaven alive and put another person in the cross that looks like Jesus or Issa.
And mention in the Book, Idris. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. And We raised him to a high station.” (Quran, 19:56-57)
Behold! Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you of those who disbelieve…’” (Quran, 3:55)1
But they neither killed nor crucified him. It was only made to appear so to them… Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (Quran, 4:157-158)2
"Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest mosque, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing." Surah Al-Isra (17:1)
Good discussion but I don't find this idea convincing that Mohammad thought that he was going to be alive when the hour came. There are numerous hadith which talk about the signs of the last hour and how people would deviate from Islam in the absence of Mohammad. All these traditions would seem paradoxical if there originally was the idea of an early end of the world during Mohammad's lifetime
The hadeeth traditions are all coming much later after these written sources. So if they contradict each other, the earlier ones are worth more than the later ones.
@@inquisitivemind007 he also said the bedouins will compete against themselves to build tower. Somewhere along that line.
What is the day of judgement anyway? We already have national court nowadays.
@@mutamirmukhzani1240
National court's?
UN security Council over rules.
@@inquisitivemind007 The messenger did not say that and Jesus is dead and will not return.
@@inquisitivemind007 All your life a puppet in the hands of the Jews laughing at you left and right.
Very interesting 👏🙂
Check out the backstory interview Derek did with James Howard-Johnston.
@@inquisitivemind007 cool. I'll look into it
great episode. more islam please. i realize it’s a tricky subject, indeed.
I second!
Great vid
Your guest has a great name too
Quit smoking whatever ur smoking.... it's clouding your judgement
Believing in Islam makes you very delusional.
@@timetoreason7090 But you are a joke, how a joke like you has an opinion.
the question is why would Muslims hide it?
Dr. Shoemaker gives his answer in the video to this question.
@@inquisitivemind007 and who knows what motives the Abbasids had to further develop it on a particular trajectory
Books are either false or ignorant, or scientific and verified.
Unfortunately, these books contradict the books that have proven a lot about the death of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and from many sources and with the presence of physical evidence for it.
But whoever wants to teach ignorance to his followers is a funny thing because that means switching from a useful channel to a channel of clowning and lying.
@@عبدالله-ن6ه2ص which books are you referring to? What makes you think the so called physical evidence isn’t fabricated?
@@inquisitivemind007 1:09:08 so we can click :)
So glad you're doing this!
@@inquisitivemind007 says the guy with a BS yt channel
@@inquisitivemind007 the fact that you edit out videos of Hythem sidky and Marjin van putten to make it sound like they are saying things they are not saying, especially when one watches the full video you edited
@@inquisitivemind007 marjin has already appeared on mythvision where he clears up misconceptions about the preservation of the Quranic text and the Quranic Rasm
Especially those misconceptions forwarded by stupid anti Muslim polemicists
@@inquisitivemind007
Good
I hope he also does a video with Paul Williams on Blogging Theology
@@merlinx8703 - these are the same historians that specifically highlight the same fundamental issues with the Christian and Jewish claims. To say it’s anti Muslim content is just not true.
To think a god that created mankind has allowed such vastly different religions over time, with no agreement on a correct version just isn’t logical
Allahu Akbar ❤ ... Prior to watching this I honestly had a bad taste in my mouth for Professor Shoemaker, as I felt like he was a sort of know-it-all pushing some sort of an agenda.
I feel like seeing him in an environment like Mythvision has allowed me to see him in a different light.
I definitely intend to get those books; I already downloaded his 100 page article from Academia! Thanks so much for this. Was very much needed and is very much appreciated.
After correcting Derek, Shoemaker towards the end of the video adopted Derek's wrong emphasis saying SEbeus rather than seBEus 😄
Shoemaker is right most of the time but just one thing that he didn't realise. Saying Mkmd is a title is not equal as saying the real person doesn't exist, that's a logical falacy.
Mkmd means 'blessed be' and it was applied to many persons. The DOTR in Jerusalem is not a mosque but a (anti-trinitarian) Church. The first shahada was inscribed in the DOTR, not in the quran. The first part of shahada had been used by early Arab Christians. The second one was an insult to the trinitians (Byzantine): 'Blessed be (=Mkmd) the messenger of God' . It refers to Jesus and demoted Him as merely a man, a messenger like John the Baptist.
The real person who invaded Jerusalem is likely be muawiyah, and the person who build the DOTR is abdul malik. He was an anti-trinitarian Christian warlord that unified people of the deserts and established Arab identity, minting coins, adopted a syriac Christian lectionaries into a book, and adopted an unknown preacher as the prophet after Jesus. So naturally the title Mkmd moved to the new prophet. Some said his real name was Quthm.
When you read Quran translation, you have to remove words inside parenthesis because those words aren't in the Arabic quran. The word Mkmd appears only 4 times (not 33 times) in the quran. Based on the grammar and context, 3 out of the 4 are about Jesus. One might be refer to the prophet but looking at the manuscript, the verse seems to be added later in the bottom margin of the manuscript.
In summary, the fact that a real person was likely exist and was called Mkmd, doesn't mean Mkmd is a name.
Mkmd initially referred to Jesus. Mohamed as a prophet was a later development during Abbasid period in creation of the Standard Islamic Narrative.
Ioshua is a title that means yah saves. Everyone never really existed. Wow I'm really amazed
@@mutamirmukhzani1240 you are mocking your own logical fallacy and lack of comprehension.
A name can be a title too. Name can have a meaning and at the same time refer to people.
Jesus' birth, life, cruxifiction, resurrection, ascention were witnessed by many people, not just Christians. There were many historical accounts, even by non Christians, about the cruxifiction. The church Jesus founded is still alive until today with leadership that can be traced back to the Apostles. And most importantly, Jesus' miracles, saving souls, lives on until today. There are simply too many evidences that Jesus exist.
Mkmd (blessed/praised be) was one of the title used by early Arab Christians to glorify Jesus, they could have use it for others, ie the previous prophets too.
Arabian was a land of (Christian) heretics. An anti trinitarian cult spread in northern Arabia towards the sassanid (Persia).
The cult, under Muawiyah started sucessful rebellion of Arab mercenaries against their Byzantine master. Their warlord, Abdul Malik took control wanted to create Arab identity.
A different anti trinitarian heretics were also spreading in the southern Arabia (Yemen) from Africa.
There were also pagan nabateans from Petra (a center of trade, mother of all cities), with their famous 3 female goddess, Al uzza, alat, al manat.
Abdul al malik minted coins and inscribe the famous shahada inside the Dome of The rocks, mocking Byzantine Christianity. The first part is the same as Jews and Christians, but the second part demoted Jesus to merely a messenger: Mkmd (blessed be) the messenger of God. At that time, this title only befitting Jesus and God himself, but the shahada refer to the messenger, and thus Mkmd title in the DOTR certainly refers to Jesus (or Yeshua in Arabic).
Unless you wanted to insist that the title refers to others, like muawiyah, umar, and unknown warlord, or Abdul al malik himself. But this means the cult worship another Lord than al lah (musyrik) and against tauhid. So this is unlikely.
The syriac aramaic lectionaries (quryana) were adopted and preached in Arabic.
The later abassid dynasty then establish a new religion. The above lectionaries were written down (the proto-Quran). The northern heretic stories were incorporated. Other famous folk tales were included.
To gain support for the nabateans, their 3 gods were included (abrogated later, but traces remained) and the pagan rituals of quraish sect of the nabateans were adopted. The black stones were moved (likely from Yemeny kabah, where it was put after being stolen from Petra) to the kabah in the new Mecca.
Out of 4 times Mkmd word appeared in the quran, 3 refers to Jesus. One likely refer to an unnamed warlord and preacher. Looking at the manuscript, this one verse was written in the margin, so it was likely an addition to the Quran on a later date.
So, it is likely that the warlord with the title Mkmd existed, but no one is sure when exactly the title Mkmd was reassigned as name of the warlord.
Of course, it is still possible that the warlord was a made up story as there wasn't any historical traces at all, and thus Thomas doubted the real person existence.
I hope this long explanations make sense to you.
@@AndiWidjaja nope kang. The same rules apply for everybody. If there are no proof of their existence, then what they were addressed as is just a placeholder title for another cult's leader. I'm just trying to be consistent here. Bisa nggak?
@@mutamirmukhzani1240 I had explain, but you can keep barking. It won't change the facts that there were too many evidences for Jesus. A blind abdool won't make a difference. 😁
Interesting. Good job! Thanks, man!
@@inquisitivemind007 "phoney prophet" yeah Paul was Tarsus did make things up
@@merlinx8703 Just prove Mo is a genuine prophet.
@@justaperson1769 Prove to me there isn't a GOD
@@justaperson1769 th-cam.com/video/dakP5OZa0F0/w-d-xo.html
@@merlinx8703 What a dumb question that is. I do not have to prove that does not exist. I do not have to prove that dragons do not exist, as they do not exist. I do not have to prove aliens, Satan, God do not exist as do not. You have prove what you claim to exist, as they suppose to exist as you claim.
Do you happen to have the original manuscript for sabaeous or are you referring to 10th century manuscript
The earliest manuscript of Sebeos we have is a 1672AD copy. What was shown in this video was a printed version of that 1672AD copy.
The way you're doing your hair looks great! Relevant and deep comment, I know 😅
Sarah sis hello again
At least it is better than the rest of the comments
@@genmarparaiso6444 Hey there! Hope you're well!
@@merlinx8703 😅 We'll have to agree to disagree 😂
@@__.Sara.__ what I meant was at least your comment is better than other comments under the video
Other comments are just inflammatory anti-Muslim polemics
the host being a former “fundamentalist” (in his words) Christian leads to ahistorical conclusions about Jesus Christ and the Bible: Jesus didn’t anticipate what was to come? This is contradicted by any basic reading of the New Testament and early Church Fathers
Amazing intro. Derek pls do more Islamic stuff m. As a Muslim I'm thirsty for non muslim scholars opinion about Islam.
do you know about mecca ?
@@websitemartian what about it? Yeah I know about it
Historical Muhammad doesn't make any sense if we rationally study Islamic tradition because nature doesn't work in the way tradition tells . Now a days it's well known knowledge how a religion evolve over time. How can we forget religion does not require historical Character. The way Israelites deals with Devin in context with historical events is just nonsensical. It causes more stupidity. We almost forgotten our past ...! Nothing comes from the sky !
There is so much that the speaker has missed out when quoting the Islamic sources regarding the end of time. So many signs have been mentioned that will occur before the Judgement day. Only a few have occurred till date. There is so much yet to come. The speaker hasn’t mentioned any 🤔.
It seems the converts from the religious leaders amongst the Abrahamic religions - Christian faith,namely the Bishops & other's similarly from, amongst the faith's of the Jew's namely the Rabbies etc & the Persian's clergy, who resided on the fringe areas of these civilizations, and who could not get the answers to the ,age old, vexing issue's faced by these religions , in some way may have contributed to the volumes of translated manuscripts which existed & which uthman seized prior to the canonization of their scripture.
These translated manuscripts,was a desperate search for answer's by these religious leaders, to issue's faced like , e.g.,the nature of christ & many other such perplexing issues,which remained unresolved for a long time. The natural calamities ,at that point in time,only added to their desperation. These converts & the translation may have had a role.
I think that the religious center changed from Jerusalem to Mecca for political reason. The change occured during the reign of Abd al Malik 685 to 705 AD. al Malik, which barely won a civil war, wanted something to unify the Arab tribes, some of whom were still pagan. Ibn Zubayr set up a rival Caliphate in Mecca, holy to the pagans. But he was defeated and killed. So al Malik incorporated pagan practices like the pilgrimage to Mecca to unify the Arab tribes by bringing the pagan tribes into the fold. Coins minted in Islam's early years showed crosses. So did Muawiyah's stone inscription in a Roman bath in North Israel, proving he was Christian. So the early Caliphs were Christian. The crosses dissapeared halfway during the reign of al Malik (reigned 685 to 705 AD) and the mosques built around this time had the kiblas pointing towards Mecca. Earlier, they pointed to Jerusalem. This marked the birth of Islam. Around 700AD. It still took more than 100 years for it to fully develop. You can see the remnants of Christianity and Judaism in modern day Islam. Muslims to this day believe that Jesus and not Mohammed who is coming again. Muslims practice old Jewish customs, some of which modern Jews no longer practice ie no pork, stoning, animal sacrifices, circumcision. So Islam probably started from one of the Jewish Christian sects, perhaps the Ebionites or the Nazarenes or one we don't know about that survived till the 7th century. These sects believed Jesus to be the Messiah but wanted to keep Jewish customs. Then to unify the Arab tribes, abd al malik added an element of pagainism to what was Jewish Christianity. And Islam was born.
Love your passion but you are very ignorant of Jewish and Christian theological concepts, history and thought. Or to be fair, just a bot too skeptical. The Bible has been proven correct with every new archeological discovery. As far as Islam, we need to know first "Did Mohammed exist?", "Exactly what are the roots of the Quran?", and lastly, when the Quran clearly shows the divinity of Jesus, why is it that they can't believe? Keep digging!
Lol there were no arians In North Africa after 565 ad. 😂give me a break.