Ok, just watched it. Sorry Simon, love your work, but you are wrong here. The main criticism of the Hyperloop is not that it costs too much, or "opposition to change". The problem is the concept itself of a reduced pressure high speed passenger transport system is simply not practical. The number of engineering issues involved, whilst technically solvable on paper, will result in a studiously unreliable and dangerous system. No amount of money will solve this, the concept is just fundamentally flawed at an engineering level from the get-go. We already have *working* 430kmh maglev. It works, it's safe, it's simple. Putting the same thing in a dangerous and ridiculously complex maintenance nightmare reduced pressure tube in order to get maybe double the speed and maybe reduced power consumption is not viable.
Yep. Making a vacuum chamber that large and keeping it at near vacuum is not really a feasible system of transportation due to the engineering issues being insane and failure of vacuum chambers are usually catastrophic.
Oh hey there :). Serious question from a guy who reads the press about HL and made one pretty surface level video on the subject (me): How come so many are invested in trying to make this a reality? Is there one video you'd recommend checking out on this? I know a lot of people will read this comment and want to learn more :). Pinning this.
I think the answer is in the middle: don't evacuate the tube, just put the big electric fan in the front to divert the air and now you have maglev suspension and propulsion with the help of the electric fan. Maybe you can even put several electric ducted fans around instead one big one on the front.
@@JCO2002 the construction is done and is already being prepped, its going to launch at some point this year unless something catastrophic happens and at that point it would most likely just be canceled at that point
I'd like to point out that the solar power angle is the LEAST insane thing about the hype-loop. Calgary's C-train light rail is powered entirely by wind turbines thanks to their long-term contracts with their electric power providers (which means that they don't have to be plugged directly into the turbines or solar panels for this to be true).
Forget the technical hurdles, check out at the price. 1. Maglev: quite expensive, there are fewer than half a dozen operational tracks in the world. 2. Tunnelling and/or tubes: terribly expensive, even with the proposed savings. 3. Evacuating air (even for a partial vac): terribly expensive. Adding all of the 3 above, what do you get? Awfully expensive to build AND run!
@@wavywatson4469 So do I, but it probably is. Let's face it, the number of people who would say something like that is low enough for this to probably be a troll
It's working already. That high tech pipe technologie is designed to pump out effortlessly money from million of wallets at speeds never possible before. And it works like a charm, with a very low carbon footprint also.
The fact that this boondoggle was taken seriously will become a case study in how embarrassingly low scientific literacy is among the general population.
Indeed. Musk is the High Priest of tech for technically illiterate people. He talks of the sort of tech they want to hear even though it's bullshit. He knows how to play these people, who include politicians and financiers - all arts graduates.
@BLOOD RIVER CULT OFFICIAL. How many pumps do you need on a 500 mile pipe? How are the seals maintained? How often do they need replacement? How does this work with entering and leaving pods in the hundreds per hour?
@BLOOD RIVER CULT OFFICIAL. Do you unterstand that a bullet train Luke the Shinkansen transports oder 1000 people at several miles per hour? Over 1 million people are transported by bullet train in Japan. You compare it to a non working system that transports zero persons and does not even have one working minibus that can operate on the assumed 700 miles per hour. So we have no idea what the running costs of a maglev in near vacuum at 700 miles per hour is. The idea that it is cheaper then existing systems is based on gut feelings and assumptions.
YES !!! The SpaceX hyperloop white paper suggested a “solution” to thermal expansion could be a telescopic exit walkway, similar to the accordion bridge used to get on an airplane. Except it would have to be 100 yards long, LOL. The mechanical stresses of hundreds of tons of steel expanding (sliding along pylons presumably?) - that’s if they used rollers, which they still haven’t addressed at all. Really they would probably need expansion joints
This is one of the biggest scams started by Musk. This impractical, expensive and impossible. You just said hyper-loop dream isn’t far but they’ve achieved no progress other than creating a 500m tube in the middle of dessert and had only achieved 250+km an hour. If I’m right Japanese Shinkansen and future maglev is already fast and most importantly already had been discovered.
That idiotic name really says all about what juvenile level, the hypeloop salesmen operate on. And about all the fanboys who think the animations are cool because they're like something from a Marvel movie. It's beyond ridiculous.
It's a real world composite material. They just called it vibranium, because it sounds cool. It's also kinda deserves the name. It's incredibly strong.
The logistics of drawing a vacuum that large are unfeasible, and even if you overcome that it's crazy dangerous. The only way to make it safe is to lower the speed, but then this system is no faster than existing maglev train technology.
‘No faster then a maglev system’ Bro this stupid thing will never never never Ever come Close to the speed of a maglev let alone faster. It’s just stupid on every level, just put the money into high speed rail, we’ve already perfected that technology which has sooo many perks over this garbage, and none of the weaknesses. What happens if a pod stops in the middle of a ‘track’ between stops, how do people get out? What happens in an emergency?
My Prediction: Musk will make just a regular-ass high-speed train for way more than what they usually cost, and call it the “Hyperloop”. Maybe it’ll be in a 1 atm tube.
You were way to optimistic ;) he made a small tunnel without any safety measures where Teslas drive around, transporting not even half of the people he promised... What a scam and people still praise him as the tech messiah
Just think of the colossal number of joints a tube would require and the amount of expansion and contraction due to temperature. Maintaining a low pressure will be insanely difficult.
It’s not a MegaProject Simon, It is a mega-scam. When you see a lot of people and companies invest into an unfeasible project, it is always some money laundering or rather a way to steal money buy investing it.
His degree in biochemistry seems too make him oddly good at rhetoric. Engineering not so much. Want an example of this. Look for his back log of falcon 9 videos. If he hasn't deleted those embarrassing things yet.
The technological challenges can probably be overcome. The biggest hurdles are safety, acquisition of rights of way, suitability of terrain, and build time (=$$$$$$). You can’t have even a hiccup - ever. Especially for passengers but also a tube was shutdown would cause massive disruptions in the transportation network that depended on it, even assuming that multiple tubes were in place. . Looking at California’s high speed rail project (HSRP), the time and cost of acquiring rights of way has proven to be MASSIVELY more expensive and time consuming than estimated by HSRP’s proponents. Suitability of terrain - active earthquake zones, environmentally sensitive areas, mountains, rivers, and population centers just to name a few. Build time - looking again at California, the HSRP is years behind schedule to even get a small portion running and it’s nowhere near major population centers. Time delays have resulted in massive cost overruns. Hyperloop technology is very cool and will continue to attract investors hoping for fat government contracts, but in the end will have limited real world utility.
The hyperloop uses essentially the same amount of steel and concrete as high speed rail, but laid to much tighter tolerances. Musk said it would cost one tenth of high speed rail - yeah, right. The transportation value in terms of capacity is rather low. The passenger experience is an order of magnitude worse than flying. And none of the hyperloop companies have come close to beating high speed rail velocities on a regular sustained basis.
Idea: high speed, high capacity, air cushioned pods in nearly a perfect vacuum, traveling hundreds of kilometres! Reality: Teslas in really short and RGB lit tunnels... What a joke, and fanboys still believe everything...
@@bneskylights1152 It would, but not by a noticeable amount. If you jump up and down, you actually slow the Earth down by a tiny amount, millionths of a nanosecond. Anyway, the main problem with the space elevator is finding a material strong enough to hold it together
Neither will fusion power. We are working on that one since we found out how to split an atom. Probably before telescope but you never know they are delaying it for years now.
I find it funny that a lot of people who dismissed high speed rail or maglev as too dangerous or too expensive seem to love a system that is even more expensive and dangerous just because it’s flashier and faster.
Faster is pretty much the driving force. LA to SF in 35 minutes would change my life in a significant way. Yes, of course they need to solve the problems of safety and cost. I don't understand why all the hate. Is development of hyperloop having a negative impact on anybody?
@@barrelrolldog you can't discount the significance of the tube. The tube is the key to potentially crazy fast speeds. I wouldn't say this is BS. The theory is sound. Whether or not they can make it technically and economically feasible remains to be seen. The way I see it is if private people want to spend their money on it, why should you care? If it flops why should you care? If they were spending massive amounts of taxpayer money, then yeah I would definitely care, but that is not the case (in the US anyway).
@@DouglasLippi Why should i care? because its BS. People should focus on, and invest in modes of transport that actually work. The tube part of the concept does not work, so all it does is add to the costs. We already know a maglev works, it's just too expensive, so it's pretty dumb to say a maglev with a tube will be even cheaper than a maglev- which we already cannot have due to the economics. do you see my point? Musk is just a waste of everyones time.
@@barrelrolldog well here in the US we have this thing called freedom. People get to do whatever they want within the law. Geez, there's a little tyrant under every rock it seems ..
@ It was only conceived 8 years, and there isn't a hyperloop version of Moore's law to magically make it more cost-effective. But there are at least 9 companies actively developing the tech, and they have full-blown competitions which they full test prototypes in the test track. It is an active area of research at major universities around world. And there are debates by real experts; but the idea that a random TH-camr, who is technical, but in a completely different field debunked this idea, and 9 companies and academic researcher around the world would waste massive amount time and money by ignoring information that some guy on TH-cam was able to gather with only the power of Google and he's understanding of science; is quite frankly stupid.
He also supposedly debunked "Feminism", where he debunked the craziest strawmen that fox news could come up with to represent feminist philosophy. He made a great series on why people laugh at creationists, and he's a smart guy. However, like a lot of smart people who also find early success, his ego outgrew his brain and started talking on subjects he is not an expert as if he is an expert in those fields too. For example, he does the same stupid thing that all "Men's Rights" groups do, bring up the handful cases being a man goes against you(i.e. custody, sentencing, military service), as evidence that sexism isn't a thing and "proof" that feminism is actual misandry. Except that even a freshmen level class on Feminism, literally address these issue and the fact they exist are the reason we still need feminist. Not to mention a philosophy as varied as feminism, it's not hard to find examples of radical feminists, and using them as a representation for all feminists is either incredibly ignorant or intellectually dishonest. So an expert in Feminist philosophy Mr. Foot is not, and I suspect the same is true for the Hyperloop.
@@mage1over137 feminism is rubbish, only for idiots who haven't evolved properly, why don't you make the world better instead of whining after your evolution of course. Try to invent or do something productive instead of some vanity scheme, if you did that maybe the majority of women might give a shit. Or not
@@amanrusom9498 well you clearly never watched Thunderf00t or you would understand that's not how evolution works. It's also quite clear the most thought you've put into feminism is, that you don't like it because it makes you feel inadequate as a man. In any case, is "inventing something productive" your plan to find a woman? How is that working out, with you obvious disdain for woman I'm guessing not so much.
Virgin Hyperloop, in Februalry 2022, have given up on the idea of carrying passengers in H-L and concentrate on freight. A very sensible decision. The serious safety, comfort, and reglatory issues involved with passengers has hardly been addressed yet, and will be very difficult to address. They have sacked half their staff, a very serious setback for H-L. The shit is hitting the fan.
The trouble with dumping passengers for freight only is the benefits of hyperloop become a highly expensive and pointless. Freight trains carry slow bulk. Freight that benefits from speed, such as produce, can't compete with the point-to-point distribution of trucks.
Aside from all the engineering problems already discussed there's another. It takes as long to get 10 people in/out of a pod as it takes to get 1,000 in/out of a train. What matters most in rapid transit is not the top speed it's people per hour.
"Opposition of boils down to opposition to change." A lot of opposition is simply ridicule for a fairly fanciful idea. The idea of being able to maintain a near vacuum in a structure that size, over seasonal changes, and ground shifts is just being ignored.
Hyperloop was envisioned for Mars where the ground level pressure is 100th that of earth's and the tunnels provide radiation shielding. It's the perfect transportation system - for Mars. Hopefully the money pumped into hyperloops being built on Earth will yield useful information relevant for building on on Mars.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 if it was envisioned for mars: why borther with a tube ? maglev do the same shit and better. and will go faster due to lower air resistance. Don't try to be dishonnest here. the mars thing happend way after. eddit: it also happend way after the "let's stop using plane and use rocket instead" another ridiculous thought from Mr Smoke Pot
I cannot remember which year was (2004 or 2005) on April's fool day, a Swedish newspaper had an article on this!!! "Travel in one hour between Stockholm and Lofoten islands". All these with an underground vacuum tunnels. I was laughing when I read and I still do.
I have a theory, it goes a little something like this: Hyperloop is not meant to be used here on earth. Building a vacuum/low pressure tube the length they are talking about is just not practical here (plenty of videos explain why on YT). But there is a place where atmospheric pressure is not a big problem, and that is Mars. A place where fast travel in a shielded tube would be a major benefit. So my guess is that Elon is pushing this idea to start of with the RnD so they don't have to start from scratch when/if they do get to Mars. Bonus theory: The Boaring company is kinda the same idea. The traffic tunnel networks under cities(again debunked in many a video for being impractical) is just hype to get money from investors for researching tunneling technology which will be needed on Mars for building underground habitat's, which if you look at some of the proposals for potential living/agricultural spaces, underground tunnels is one of them.
Mars certainly need some holes dug to become livable, being 3 meters underground is as almost good a radiation shield as we get from the atmosphere, and if we dug in before sending people, they could move into the hole once they got there. Plus you could get a lot of rock samples that way. We'd have to figure out dry tunneling though, since what we use here on Earth uses a huge amount of water to clear chips and generally move the mined material away. It would take a large amount of power, too, of course, so we need portable fusion power first. And really durable robots to run/be the equipment. Those would be extremely useful here on Earth, too. If some funding for idiotic boondoggles like hype-loop gets used to work on practical robotics, power and tunneling, then that's OK. Those aren't exactly non-profit technologies though, so we should just directly fund them instead of death trains.
It's what Elon envisioned it to be for in the first place. Electric cars, solar panels, battery systems, hyperloop, boring company, rockets. All needed for Mars. There is no endeavour that Musk is working on that is NOT meant for Mars. Side benefits are for Earth. Many do not realise Musk is not doing all this for money. He just has an unstoppable urge to go to Mars, so he's building a path to get there.
Yeah, sounds cool. Except in a seismically active area... like California or Japan. All you would need is a one millimeter ground shift to produce a crack removing the vacuum and then you'll have immense pressures that are not accounted for. Or a forested area where a root system could grow into the tube thus causing the same issue.
Or uneven thermal expansion.. or corroding tubes.. or idiots messing with the system in some way. Or a simple mechanical faimure which would leave the passengers stranded in a tunnel with no access points...
@@Fedaykin24 because its expensive to produce and maintain, uneeded since its never in combat, has a very limited operational time, requires ALOT of support, but most importantly, has absolutely no real use today.
@@marcosdheleno Everything you have written there is wrong! With each Block F-35 is coming down in price and is very competitive vs the Eurocanards. Its maintenance and production costs are coming down with each Block. It is not in combat because it is new but has been used operational over conflict zones. It is proving to be very useful operationally and is proven by every nation that operates the type!
The oft quoted "30 minutes from LA to San Fran" is just as true for a jet as a hyperloop. The reason it takes 2 hours is all of the ancillary activity: parking, security screening, etc. And it won't be any different at a future hyperloop station than at the current airport. It's a total waste of money.
Like EEVblog already said, the Hyperloop is nothing than an empty pipe-dream (pun totally intended). Here are several problems with it that you have not touched upon, nor have I found ANYONE ever, adressing those problems. 1: IF the energy necessary to create and hold the vaccuum was to come from phtovoltaic panels then having them at a flat horizontal plane on top would reduce their efficiency significantly; ie so much so, that not even a complete coverage overground would supply the necessary energy for the high-efficiency vaccuum pumps that would have to stationed all along the pipe. It would NOT be sufficient to power the mag-lev in and of itsself. So where does the additional energy required come from? 2: How large are the pods going to be finally, and how much carrying capacity will each complete pod have? Because no-one has done ANY calculations of the actual freight capacity of a pod. Because pods need to be boarded by passengers in some kind of airated station. As such the pods can't be in a vaccuum when being boarded. So to enter the pipe, the pods would have to travel either a short distance into some kind of air-lock that would then have to be evacuated. But creating such a vaccuum is not a fast thing. Simply locking the pod in an airlock, then opening the airlock to the evacuated tube would catapult the pod forward at internal organ crushing accelerations of several hundred G. So a vaccuum would have to be generated in the airlock. Creating a near-vaccuum from one atmosphere of pressure for any kind of container takes between 5 and 20 minutes. So in essence, you might have at best one pod on its way every five minutes. The trouble with a larger pod is that it would also need a much larger airlock, which would in turn require so much more time to evacuate. Physics simply is a bitch, she will bite you in the ass each and every time when you ignore her. So the total number of people per hour is the limiting factor. So if the pods hold only 30-40 people each (as I surmise will be limit from the largest models I have seen, with much smaller numbers proposed by Elon Musk himself, saying something around 10 people per pod), this in essence limits the number of people per hour to a total of 480 people. Or for a measly 9000 people at best per day. That is nothing, absolutely NOTHING in any kind of real comuter capacity. For a feasable commuter system it would have to carry tens of thousands of people per hour, not around 500. For example the city of Frankfurt a.M./Germany, has a night-time population of 600 000, but a day-time working population of over 2 million. So at least 1.4 million people commute each day into and out of the city. To accomplish that hundreds of trains, trams, buses, and thousands of cars travel into the city during rush-hour. The 1.4 million is even a conservative guess, some even speculate of up to 2.4 million. 3: How are security measures for the Hyperloop going to be kept up? Because anything that will absolutely guarantee everyone inside it to go 'mush' should any kind of accident occur, is going to be the target of terrorists. So security checks would have to be introduced for the Hyperloop, making boarding even longer than anything I have asked about above. Heck, even a true accident such as a loose screw being kicked up by the passage of the pod, piercing the tubes wall, would cause instant reinflation of the tube which would rip apart the pods traveling in it like wet tissue paper in a tornado. 4: How is the security of the pipe vs adverse weather and ground effects going to be ensured? You know, something like even a minor earthquake in California? Which does occur fairly regularly. 5: IF Hyperloop is going to be built underground (not even assuming a near-total vaccuum) how is the cost being calculated for a line from Los Angeles to San Francisco still be considered possible at a mere 6 billion dollars, when the best tunnel builders of the world (the Swiss) had to calculate the St. Gotthard-Basistunnel is already considered to be 12 billion CHF (Swiss Franks) or around 12 billion dollars. Only that the Gotthard Basistunnel is neither an evacutated tube, nor is it several hundred miles long, but rather only a measly 57 km (appr. 40 miles). That is an indicator how the costs for a completely underground tunnel from LA to SF would EXPLODE the costs into completely unrealistic heights. 6. Passengers ABSOLUTELY have to be seated if the pods accelerate at the rates given in the video. So there is NO way for passengers to get up during their travel. Unluckily the pods would have to slow down much slower than they accelerated as the seats would be facing the wrong way. Traveling at close to Mach 1 (or assuming the BS about Mach 2.4 or even higher for the most outlandish propositions were true) will take a significant amount of time. As such, not the whole distance will be traveled at the top speed. In effect the proposed travel time of a mere 45 minutes from LA to SF completely ignores security checks, boarding time, depressurization, acceleration and decceleration times, repressurization, and deboarding times. Thats like saying: "Hey, an airplane can travel from LA to SF at 670 mph so it takes only 1 hour 20 minutes in total." That's the kind of BS that Musky's fanboys always spout, but don't get called out on. These are only some of the questions that have been left unanswered, so being a Muskovite fanboy is not going to help here. Please, someone out there answer these questions before more time, money, and resources are being wasted on this absolutely ridiculous project.
I always thought this is why Han made the Kessel run in 12 Parsecs... FTL drive's speed is measured in distance as c is true max speed. But then the SOLO movie ruined all that ;(
@@StinkPickle4000 The reason for this is that the Kessel run isn't a set course, but rather a journey between Kessel and another planet whose name escapes me (Ord mantel, possibly?) Between these two points lay many dangerous astronomical phenomena, including the largest cluster of black holes in the galaxy. The shorter one made the trip, the more dangerous it became, and before that god-aweful movie that we shall not mention, Han Solo achieved this short run by performing a slingshot maneuver via the gravity well of a black hole.
@@dinosore4782 That's not what I meant to say by that. I mean it would be a massive challenge to maintain and probably be too unsafe compared to other modes of travel to ever be viable. It's certainly *possible*, that just doesn't mean it's *practical*.
@@h.w.6563 right I was responding to OP, but when you take into account like everything that exists, it can’t compete with everything else . Bullet trains about to be real life going 700 miles per hour and people will still be like one day a hyperloop bro!!!
One of the main, and often-overlooked, problems of Hyperloop is the capacity of the system. Each pod has approximately the same passenger capacity as a rollercoaster train. A well-run rollercoaster, like those at the Disney or Universal Studios parks, can dispatch around 2000 passengers per hour under optimal conditions. That's with separate loading/unloading bays, always having a new train waiting at the end brakes ready to enter the station so there's always a train being unloaded while another loads, assigning passengers to their seat before they even board the train, allowing passengers to board the train directly into their seats, and nobody having any luggage. Clearly, this best-case scenario for rollercoasters is unfeasible for Hyperloop to achieve. You just can't board the pods fast enough. Even the coasters built for fast throughput can't hit 2000 every time, and with Hyperloop you're likely down to the capacity of less efficient coasters: 3-400 passengers per hour per station. That really doesn't cut it for commuting. Take the Victoria Line on the London Underground: during peak hours, it transports 30,000 people per hour in each direction. Granted, you are unlikely to see that many people wanting to travel between big cities at the same time, but 3-400 pph is still woefully inadequate. "But aha, what if you have several station bays loading and unloading in parallel?" Sure, that would increase the dispatch capacity of the system, but then you're running into other interesting problem. The need for multiple track switches, for one, with carefully timed valves to allow trains to enter and exit the main tube. There would have to be some sort of taxi system, like at airports, where pods are queued up to wait their turn. With passengers behaving unpredictably, you can't time the dispatch of each pod down to the second, or to the 30-second interval, which means a traffic control system at the station would be required too. By the way, remember how much time of a passenger flight is spent waiting around the airport for take-off and landing? And all the faff about boarding? Those 45 minutes between San Francisco and Los Angeles, for instance, would quickly be accompanied by about the same amount of time waiting at either end. At this point, it is evident that a Hyperloop station would have to be fairly big. About the size of a train terminal, at least. This means it would require a lot of space, which tends to be at a premium in big cities. That means downtown-to-downtown travel is out of the question. You would have to build it outside the city core, with public transport links to downtown, and suddenly you have all the faff of an airport, famously being a hassle to get to and from at both ends of your journey. All this while competing against trains, which have long since grabbed the premium downtown real estate in cities where it's available, cars, which take people from door to door and considerably cutting down the hassle of short-to-mid-range travel, or planes, which can compete pretty comfortably on long-distance trips since they don't require all that expensive infrastructure in the middle. All this goes on to suggest it would be better to improve passenger rail instead of replacing it with Hyperloop. It can utilize existing infrastructure, has a much larger capacity, and lacks several of those engineering challenges Hyperloop struggles with. It may not have the same awesome speed during the middle leg of the journey, but it more than makes up for it in efficiency.
Thanks to thunderf00t's 13 or so excruciatingly repetitive, misleading and inaccurate videos on this one subject so many fools think the Hyperloop cannot be done. It can. The only question is, as you have touched on, whether or not it could be viable. I hope so, but share your concerns.
@@kirkc9643: I think the engineering challenges could be solved, and the existing test beds will probably go a long way towards creating a fully working stretch of track. The issue is more what happens around the stations, and the economy/logistics of operating the system. That's where I think Hyperloop falls short. In a technical sense it could surely surely be feasible to send pods at high speeds through vacuum tubes, but it doesn't seem very well suited as a transport system.
3:55 "The HyperLoop will run on solar energy..." WHAT?! HOW? The answer is, it can't. First things first, the average solar panel produced in a factory has an efficiency of around ten to twenty percent. The highest grade solar panel has an efficiency of fifty percent. The problem with these solar panels is that they are produced in a laboratory, and they can be very expensive. This makes the project WAY MORE costly than predicted, and impractical. Okay, well let's assume we live in a perfect world where solar efficiency has reached the impossible one-hundred percent. Well now we have another problem. Solar panels can only reach that impossible one-hundred percent in broad daylight. And with that comes another problem. Weather is, well, weather. It can be sunny, it can be cloudy, rainy, stormy, hurricaney. The point is, powering an entire system of low-pressure tubes and 750mph pods with solar power is a fantisable dream, and an impossible idea.
This thing is such bull, where do they get these numbers like 10x safer, 800 mph when after 8 years nobody has come up with a working prototype. This things a cool idea, but that’s just it. I can daydream up a million sci-fi inventions but it’s a long way from the dream to the working concept.
My guess is a very short hyperloop will function somewhere for weeks maybe months then be abandoned due to horrific maintenance costs and a likely tragic loss of life within 2 years.
@@Kai...999 why, if the rail is working you are kept on it by the forces involved, if it's suddenly looses power you touch the rail or the wall and you are burned up toast... At these speeds you are basically akin to a really heavy kinetic penetretator. Those get pretty warm on impact and burn. Even if they the steel.
Hey, bald men with beards are beautiful. There is nothing wrong with being bald and having a beard. Unless he can't change a tire, or do a tune up, or rebuild his engine, then maybe he should shave it.....
A cubic meter of air has a weight of 1.29 kg. The area to the tube if the tune is 10 m2 if the diameter is about 3.6m. So if there is a near vacuum for 100m in front of you 10m2 * 100m you get about 1000m3 of air with 1.29kg of weight so every 100 m of vacuum creates about 1.28 tons of missing air. This air will shoot in the tube with air speed if there is a failure in the tube. So 20km of tube collapse in front of you will create 256 tons of missing air shooting through the tube and you will be the projectile in the tube. Just look at the vacuum cannon where the myth busters shoot a ping-pong ball with near air speed out of it. I think the stopping of your pod and the fast acceleration into the other direction will create g forces that just kill you in an instant. Just look at Thunderfoots debunking video it is on point.
@@fvckyoutubescensorshipandt2718 yeah but... if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Only the fact that is a steel tube without easy access for emergencies makes it a potential death trap.
@@TheSkullProphet the problem I see is evacuation. You can try and land a plane and evacuate it, like it happened in many occasions, but people on the HL won't have anywhere to go if the thing fails and starts burning. This even happened in the Eurotunnel, where there is an emergency service tunnel specific for this kind of scenario, and thankfully people where able to escape. Belive me, I love the idea, but it's the proposed execution that I don't agree with.
@Niklaus Crowley yes you are allowed (if the patents are not still held) but you can't claim it as your own idea, and you can't proclaim that you are giving it to the world for free, because it wasn't yours to begin with. See the difference now?
Imagine the global problems that could be solved if open sourcing was an applied to everything... You wouldn't get despots like Trump trying to run their countries into the ground... 👍
There is a simple issue that is missed in virtually all conversation about hyperloop; how to deal with horizontal and vertical acceleration induced by a change in direction. It is really really hard to build very long , very straight and very level lines and this is really important for a vehicle containing humans traveling 700mph. Civil engineers use 4 ways to get around an obstruction: over, under, around or through. Through is the most desirable but quite expensive. On a long enough line there will always be obstructions that money will not solve.
I see this as the main objection. Notice it is always shown in a flat desert like @13:47. Even that CGI curve @2:57 would be much too sharp for the speed involved.
There was a Prototype Pneumatic Subway built in New York before the later / currently system was built. It was abandoned and then later found by tunnelers digging another subway tunnel. It is rumored that the Pneumatic Train Station still exists today under a ventilator grate near City Hall.
Um.. unsafe, expensive, compex to load/unload... Maybe just use a regular maglev or high speed rail for 1/10th or less the price. Proven tech. The concord taught everyone that pure speed sacrificing practicality is meaningless.
@@ccibinel there would be no innovation if you only use proven tech. I agree that hyperloop is too impractical for present use but it's principles may someday be used for highspeed travel. No research is useless research.
@Ritwick I do agree that the research might become useful for other applications. Such as moonbase travel which looks to be likely within the next ten to fifteen years.
not just crashing but also being crushed by a concusive force of air while again going the speed of sound and then hitting an opposing bit of air at the speed of sound
Some thoughts of an airline pilot about this: The NASA recommended speed of mach .85 is exactly the same speed modern long-haul aircraft such as the Boeing 787 or Airbus A350 cruise at. The reason for that being that it's as fast as you can go before parts of the airflow become trans- or supersonic, which in turn will massively increase drag and thus use a ton more energy. So since physics stay the same, I image the hyperloop would most likely travel at a very similar speed; unless they go supersonic all the way, with all the drawbacks of that, such as very high energy consumption and the sonic boom. Also, if hyperloops become a continent connecting form of transit, it will also need passport controls and security checks just like an airport, because as vital infrastructure it would be a possible target for a terrorist attack. So hyperloop ports would most like resemble modern airports more than anything else. While I see a use case for hyperloops, in connecting Paris to Rome, Boston to Chicago or Hong Kong to Shanghai, and/or even function as feeder trains for large international airports such as London Heathrow, I have trouble seeing huge advantages at continent transversing distances, especially considering costs.
@@penedrador if building a tunnel is all it takes for someone to be considered an unprecedented Genius then Croatia might invent a teleporter next year. They clearly have a lot of Intellectuals with all these tunnels they have.
Overhyped pipedream. The infrastructure costs vs "regular" high-speed rail is ridiculous. It is a wasteful use of resources. The price of the infrastructure for a complete EU network vs regular rail would be beyond astronomical, and so would the subsequent scheduled day-to-day maintenance. An L. A. to S. F. track would be a 350 miles (if perfectly straight) long vacuum chamber. The thermal expansion on the steel tube alone, would generate more leaks than a fragmentation grenade on a water-bed. I'm all for more solar power integration as a rule, but the whole "it'll run on solar" - shtick needs to stop. That would mean no night operation or in the North where there isn't a lot of sun 6 months off the year. Solar and wind is nice, if you can back it up with hydro, geothermal or nuclear. Regular and high speed rail needs to be improved in Europe. A complete overhaul and standardisation, plus a switch to electric for all tracks. I think we will see electric passenger planes before a Hyperloop network. The idea of building an overpriced Hyperloop track in India pains me more than anything else from the video. Building this vanity project in a country, where not every citizen has access to clean water or a toilet connected to a sewer system, just screams misuse of funding and disregard for human life.
Hyperloop is a transportation system envisioned for Mars. Ideal air pressure, and radiation shielding. Elon knew it wouldn't be feasible, if you ask me, but now others are working on it, and the results and tests will yield information relevant for building one on Mars.
The argument that sun won't shine in the north is super irrelevant. I live in Canada and my city uses solar, but what's important is that my city is about as far north as people live. A few hours north of me there are only native reservations for the most part. Those places have serious problems far more pressing than whether solar can power a hyperloop train to them, they're more concerned with finally getting proper drinking water. Seriously these places make Flint Michigan look like a utopia. The federal government has been such a monumental failure in this regard. Back to the point lack of sunlight will never be a problem because society doesn't care about the people who live that far north
Also massive social inequality aside it's hard enough to get a railway, road, or pipeline to go that far north. Massive frost and thaw along with nothing but bog makes the far north absolutely irrelevant to any solar power argument. No one will ever actually care to try and commit any resources to the project.
Minor, but equally valid point IMHO, here: how is a pod supposed to "change tracks" if in a vacuum tube? That is a serious issue that undermines the idea at a fundamental level. If pods can't change tracks, how are they supposed to allow people off at intermediate stations? How are they supposed to be manouvered to a different tube for the return leg of their journey? How are they supposed to be shunted for maintenance? How is it possible to maintain the proposed frequency of the pods? How is the system supposed to be evacuated in case of accidents? And so on, and so forth… 🙄
Although Hyperloop was originally envisioned for Mars for which it is absolutely ideal, Hyperloop on earth, if at all feasible will end up being a tunnel that is one or two meters in diameter larger than the pods which through it's bullet shape squeezes the air around the pod and makes it float towards the centre of the tube. Speeds up to mach 2 should be possible. Will cost more energy, but it's the only viable way. A vacuum tube at 0.01 atmospheres simply is not maintainable, not even if it's completely underground (to prevent terrorist attacks). maybe at 0.5 or 0.3 atmoshperes it would become feasible. which is 30-50 times higher than originally envisioned.
The past in fluid conversation with future concepts, providing keys for how best we can live today. Nice. I've written that in a piece before. I keep coming back to it, it's very true. So many ideas to explore, so little time. Never enough time.
Hi Simon, how about a show about space tourism, maybe the new space station concept where the average person can go stay at the Holiday Inn, in low earth orbit. Or maybe the new Simon Whistler getaway pod where you can watch Simon record one of his famous shows like Business Blaze, Biographics, Geographics, Megaprojects, Today I Found out, and many more. Don’t miss out on this wonderful opportunity, we’re taking reservations now. Allegedly
@@cmdrtianyilin8107 Yes. But I was thinking "Suppose they do a full-court press to make it safe, what do they have to do?" and seeing that the answer was completely impractical: full-body restraints like a roller-coaster, refuse admittance to kids, the elderly, the infirm etc, attendants to check that everyone is strapped in, etc. All of that adds tons of cost and inconvenience.
I participated in the 2020 Space x hyperloop competition which was unfortunately canceled due to covid 19, what i can say is we ran into a big problem called END EFFECT. any speed over 200mph causes END EFFECT in the linear induction motor. what is not mentioned in this video is that the TUM (technical uni of munich) team which won the last 4 competitions actually never used MAGLEV or LIMs they actually used WHEELS! it was a speed competition and during the specifications of the previous years competitions using LIMs wasn't particularly mentioned, which allowed TUM to win in a disrespectful but legal manner. If anyone would like any more information about this please don't hesitate to contact me at twitter.com/mmakki96
The cost to maintain a near vacuum in the tube is not practical not to mention the danger of cascade collapse of major section of the line due sudden pressure changes.
If it ever happens, waiting times at airports would reduce, to be replaced by waiting times at Hyper Loop stations. Waiting times don't magically disappear.
When I was living in Japan, I went to the train station, bought a ticket, and with 10 minutes from the time I bought the ticket to on the moving train from Osaka to Tokyo. It cost me $15US more dollars than flying and a about 30 minutes longer trip on the train. Trains run every 15-30 minutes, no going through security. No waiting for everyone to be seated and luggage stored properly. It can be half hour wait+ if the shikansen is busy, but most of the time it just walk on. However my next trip would have cost $800 and 8 hours by shikansen roundtrip vs 2 hour and $200US by plane. I choose plane. Trains are horrible when it comes to distances economically, which is why the US should never invest in trains where routes are not established, it doesn't make economic sense.
100% of 1000 people waiting at one terminal for 3 planes is going cause ques.. 50% of 1000 people waiting at the airport, and the other 50% at the hyperloop terminal means half the wait time.. and hyperloop will have much more frequent services, perhaps as often as every minute or 2.. as well as quicker security checkpoints, which, really, is a major delay in air travel.. 3 hours I've waited to get through security at times, and then more security shit at the other end!! that's just painful..
The wait at airports has much more to do with the carriers lying about how long a trip takes than anything else. Decades ago official travel times were quite a bit longer than now, and wait times were MUCH lower, but the planes aren't really traveling any faster today. I've read that airlines started to lengthen the stated travel times not all that long ago to try and fix the problem. But they're still basically trying to get away with just listing the actual flight time, and not including the 30 minutes to board a plane, or the 5-15 minutes to both taxi and take off, and land and taxi to the terminal. That makes a 3 hour flight actually take 4 hours or so. Plus we have the slow security that the American taxpayers are mostly paying for.
@@soberhippie I recall going over those quite a while ago, the whole adventure while not technically totally impossible does have some major issues. The biggest ones that stand out from the vague memories about those are: safety, reliability and maintenance costs. Operating capsules in a low pressure tube has a few safety risks if a large leak shows up anywhere and maintaining a normal sized vacuum chamber can already be interesting to put it mildly. Maintaining a vacuum will also be a challenge, multiple stops along the way would mean airlocks and potential leaks at every stop along the way. I don't want to think about the energy cost of maintaining said vacuum either, wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't make sense at all compared to the air resistance energy savings between a hyperloop and a normal train. I'd also be interested in how it would handle temperature shifts, since it is essentially a long pipe that needs to maintain a perfect seal yet it'll expand and shrink depending on the temperature and exposure to the sun. All this said though I'm not entirely surprised the video ended up like this, it takes a bit of digging around or actual technical knowledge about the subject to come across it. The good PR about it is obviously much easier to find with fancy presentations from companies with a stake in it. I also can't recall many times that general news outlets both written and on TV bother to question such technology projects, they often if tend to include a bit about the theory explained by someone affiliated by the company or not at all. Almost never a third party expert from some university for example.
@@Yutani_Crayven Thunderf00t hasn't been wrong on any of the concepts he debunked. If he was a 'random clickbait internet dude' and didn't know his shit, then why can't I take a sip out of my self filling water bottle while driving my thorium powered car on solar roadways to the beach to go scuba diving with my Triton artificial gill? Hint: Those are all also things he's debunked.
@@Yutani_Crayven there aren't thousands of engineers working on it. The few hundred that were have all moved on after realising "oh this is pretty much impossible" Find any scientist or engineer who has published viable support for anything resembling a hyperloop in the next 100 years.
Thunderf00t might be a good chemist/biochemist, but he is certainly not a good engineer. Look at his video about hyperloop. A good portion of it is just he rumbling about some rust on the test tube and the fact that not every eye-hole had a bold fixing it to the concrete foundation. TF is completely out of the loop when it come to how SpaceX does prototyping. Rust?- Well, does rust interfere with our test program? no? Then why bothering me? Not very last eye hole fixed?- Well, is the structure still sound? Yes? Then why buying more expensive bolts? TF thinks that even the most basic prototype has to withstand every last condition the final product has to. Indefinitely.
@oƃƃə well, looking at his past videos, he is becoming kind of a sad obsessed person with his anti-hyperloop videos. I mean if it really wouldn't be possible, there wouldn't be so many engineers and entrepreneurs be jumping on the hyperloop train. Just let the scientists do their stuff and they will eventually figure it out. And even if it doesn't work out in the end, the scientists and engineers will probably have learned a lot of stuff during the process that they can use for other projects. I mean just look at NASA, they managed to get people to the freakin moon in the 1960s and during the research for that they learnt a lot of technologies that are used in car manufacturing nowadays. Thunderf00t is just behaving like some sad old man that thinks he knows everything better.
@oƃƃə _"...using a vacuum tube to transport people. It's too dangerous and not cost effective."_ Very similar things have been said about traveling in airplanes above altitudes that allow normal breathing. The same crack in both is equally deadly. But an airplane is far more fragile than how a hyperloop tube can be build.
You completely ignore perhaps the most important criticism : what happens when the tube develops a non-trivial puncture? Depending on exactly how low the pressure inside the tube is going to be (and it'll need to be pretty low if you want to go 700 mph without significant frictional heating), a failure of the vacuum integrity will result in a shock wave of air travelling in each direction away from the site of the breach. This shock wave will travel at or near the speed of sound. At least, it will until it hits the pod coming towards it. Unless the pod will possess unheard-of crash structures, the result of the impact will either be the pod smeared across the inside of the tube, or the passengers smeared across the inside of the pod. And if anyone wants to claim that the tube will not or cannot fail so catastrophically, consider this : no-one has yet invented a long-distance oil pipeline that doesn't leak. So it doesn't really matter where the first hyperloop gets built : no-one will insure it to carry passengers.
Would a system of doors every kilometre or so work? Plus a controller system that detects such a leak and rapidly slows any train that goes toward that leak miles in advance, maybe temporarily reducing the speed of that train to speeds that would work in regular air, while the blastdoors deal with any shockwaves, temporarily creating a slow section around the leak until it is fixed?
@@BartvG88 - That could perhaps work. But it will add even more to the initial cost of the system, as well as adding to maintenance costs (and lost time because the tube has to be shut down for maintenance).
Yeah, the criticism part of the video shows Simon is really in love with the idea. The technological, safety-related and financial hurdles here are enormous, maybe even insurmountable. It's definitely not just "an opposition to change".
Yeah when he says 0.5 g is a lot... Have you ever been in a strong car? Or on a fast train, even some trams accelerate like that... That an acceleration of 18kph/11mph a second. A modern tram goes at 50 kph and accelerates to speed at about 2,5 seconds. It would be longer. 25-30 worth of time to accelerate similar to deccelerate. Don't sounds bad or insane.
Whilst it’s a great concept, running between A and B I just don’t see it viable. The importance of fast travel is for people commuting in which case you’d need so many stops it wouldn’t get up to speed and would be slow anyway loading people on off.I
@@danielbenson6407 well difference is if the tunnel is breached, 1000th of tonnes coming at you at the speed of sound. They need a sponge to clean your remains
Quick tip, you don't spell the 'e' in Pune as in stone, you spell literally spell the 'e' without changing the inherent sound of 'u'. Thought might be helpful.
This concept has been well and truly proven to be unfeasable. Its a lovely thought, but the materials and engineering required are beyond our reach unfortunately. Maybe if we quit war and religion for a few centuries we may be able to cobble one of these together.. but ... Chances of that are slim.
"Proven"? Links please. And not to any of thunderf00t's 13 or so excruciatingly repetitive, misleading and inaccurate videos on this one subject (but might I suggest you check out his similar pontifications on how Falcon 9 re-usability would never work).
@@kirkc9643 Do you have any evidence for that? Can you give us an example? By the way do you have a 500 miles pipe where actually thousands of people are transported in near vacuum with 700 miles speed?
@@hellishgrin4604 ITER is scheduled for completion by 2025 and while an earth based space elevator is a ways off due to limitations in current materials it is within our technical capability to construct one on the moon or perhaps mars.
@@hellishgrin4604 Fusion Energy has been done but it takes more energy to do than you get out the other end, so the real question should be how do we make it work
I wish I could sell a daring idea on the basis that accidents never happen. The faster the vehicle, and the narrower the air gaps, the bigger the challenges. If you are prepared to settle for Mach 0.4, the Bullet Train or the TGV will do.
The most important point that has not been addressed by any hyperloop supporters is how a structure that maintains a vacuum is going to accommodate thermal expansion of the containment vessel, when that vessel is a hundred kilometers in length. The fact that no one even mentions this problem, let alone works on it, is a sign they are dealing more in fantasy than reality.
No hyperloop people have addressed one of the biggest technical hurdles, thermal expansion. The SpaceX hyperloop white paper suggested a “solution” to thermal expansion could be a telescopic exit walkway, similar to the accordion bridge used to get on an airplane. Except it would have to be 100 yards long, LOL. The mechanical stresses of *hundreds of tons of steel expanding* (sliding along pylons presumably?) - that’s if they used rollers, which they still haven’t addressed at all. Likely they would need expansion joints, which combined with a 1 ATM pressure gradient, you would need some crazy strong seals
Yes they will need expansion joints. The seals will not need to be "crazy strong" (seals of 20ATM and more are common enough) but the whole joint will be crazy expensive.
That's true but the crazy part is the speed they are talking about the G force the tolerance required from winter to summer the space to build the thing too.
"Ya, canna change the laws of physics..." It's a square/cube problem. The energy required to move an object through air increases as the SQUARE of the speed. The energy required to remove the air from a tube increases as the CUBE of the length. That cubing of the power overwhelms all the gains from having no resistance in a hurry. Back in 1870, Alfred Beach learned this the hard way when he tried it and the physics hasn't changed since then. It isn't viable to operate a long HyperLoop. The costs for the power required to remove the air (assuming you could even get that much power) make it a zero-sum-game. Add in safety issues (how to get help to people inside a pressurized can, inside a depressurized tube, inside an atmosphere if something goes wrong) and the HyperLoop is reduced to just a pipe-dream, literally. Why not just use very-high-speed-trains like they have in China and Japan? Proven technology, that actually works, with excellent safety records and you can use their data to know exactly how much it costs to make and operate.
Errrrr are you deliberately misrepresenting the facts or was that an honest mistake? Moving an object through air requires that energy the whole time. Removing most (it will not be a vacuum) of the air from a sealed tube only needs to be done once. Obviously there will also be evacuation of air from operation of airlocks too but that is insignificant in comparison to your flawed analogy.
@@kirkc9643 I'm not. Alfred Beach already tried this technology and the square/cube problem ensured it would not scale. Do the math yourself. Figure how much power is required to depressurize the Hyperloop test track (I'll be nice and say it's about a kilometre long) Now the nearest major city to where I am is about 300km away so the power required (even if it's just one-time) is 300 x (how much they used for the test track) ^ 3. It's a ludicrously huge number. We would have to shut everything else in the region down for days. The engineering required to build a sealed depressurized tube hundreds of kilometres long with air locks at either end that can withstand the WEATHER (we get WEATHER here, not weather) is insanely expensive (some would argue that the materials required for such a construction don't even exist yet) and remember we want this train to be usable/affordable for everyone. The safety concerns are enormous too. And I repeat my question: Why not just use very-high-speed-trains? Ego? Pride? I've tried, in my own head, to solve some of the problems by using a system of rolling airlocks (like they use for boats) so only the section the train is in, and the one immediately in front of it, need be depressurized. Using connecting tubes and pumps we could use the power of the near vacuum of the section the train just passed through to help depressurize the section two ahead of the train. But that just makes the engineering and building of the thing beyond the stratosphere in expense which must be paid for in the ticket price of the riders putting the price of the ride beyond the reach of most. Final thought: It only costs me about $37 to drive my car to that nearest city (and back) OR I can take the bus for $200 OR I can fly for about $500. The flight time is 53 minutes and I estimate the train time at 36 minutes so how much am I going to pay to save 17 minutes?
Another brilliant video. Hooked on these and Geographics. You mentioned doing a video on the Titanic in a previous video, I definitely vote 👍 for that. Keep up the amazing work all. 🤙
He missed the opportunity to have the title say "Hyperloop: the future of transport, or just a pipe dream." The fact that this pun was not made is a sin
I first saw a proposal for a M3 tube train in my fluids class. I think it was referred to here as the NYC to LA. It was presented to the class by the instructor. It felt like some work had been done even if only the theory and some drawings. Hope they have better luck this time. That was back in 1974 at RPI.
Topic Suggestion: The great snowy mountain scheme in Australia 🇦🇺 which the Federal Govt. is currently looking to expand. Thanks Simon and lovin the format of this show.
The US department of defense budget for 2019 was 686 billion dollars. Imagine what amazing things they could do if they spent just a quarter of that on infrastructure projects like these. Besides the facet that taxation levels are way too high and should be drastically reduced.
wasted money. Just like the 5millions on solard roadways , plastic roadways etc etc ... all thoses "hype project" with no substance and no viability due to fundamental flaws
Megaproject idea : le Grand Paris Express. The new Paris underground public transport that will (it's not completed but the service will start before completion, this year) become the world's longuest fully automated metro with over 200km of tracks. Really interesting from an economic and ingeneering prospect. Or maybe the Line 1 that became fully automated.... without interuption of service! A line that was first opened in 1900 and transported 1/2 million passengers per day BEFORE the upgrade to full auto! That was at the time (to my knowledge) a world first. Great video as usual. I'm hopping to the Geographics channel now! 👍🏽
The USA is unable to have a decent rail transportation system for people, unlike China, Europe, Japan...and wants to build a sci-fi hyperloop transportation system in their country, underground, in California where seismic activity is one of the most intense in the World. And I'm putting aside all technical difficulties, or the cost to do so, to maintain a vaccum depression in a thousands of miles lenght tube, and the cost to build such a structure...and all safety problem (What happen if the hyperloop stops in a sealed tube in the middle of nowhere underground, under hundreds foot of rocks ? how to evacuate people ? ) Hyperloop is such a waste of money, which could be use for more feasable and realistic things....
Ok, just watched it. Sorry Simon, love your work, but you are wrong here. The main criticism of the Hyperloop is not that it costs too much, or "opposition to change". The problem is the concept itself of a reduced pressure high speed passenger transport system is simply not practical. The number of engineering issues involved, whilst technically solvable on paper, will result in a studiously unreliable and dangerous system. No amount of money will solve this, the concept is just fundamentally flawed at an engineering level from the get-go.
We already have *working* 430kmh maglev. It works, it's safe, it's simple. Putting the same thing in a dangerous and ridiculously complex maintenance nightmare reduced pressure tube in order to get maybe double the speed and maybe reduced power consumption is not viable.
Catastrophic decompression turning commuters to paste isn't a problem. Its an opportunity.
Yep. Making a vacuum chamber that large and keeping it at near vacuum is not really a feasible system of transportation due to the engineering issues being insane and failure of vacuum chambers are usually catastrophic.
If you still don't believe it's not practical go watch thunderf00t's video on that. Explains very well why the Hyperloop doesn't make sense.
Oh hey there :). Serious question from a guy who reads the press about HL and made one pretty surface level video on the subject (me): How come so many are invested in trying to make this a reality? Is there one video you'd recommend checking out on this? I know a lot of people will read this comment and want to learn more :).
Pinning this.
I think the answer is in the middle: don't evacuate the tube, just put the big electric fan in the front to divert the air and now you have maglev suspension and propulsion with the help of the electric fan. Maybe you can even put several electric ducted fans around instead one big one on the front.
The James Webb space telescope would be a good topic
True but surely it needs to be completed first?
Welllll he literally did a Dyson sphere video lol so if he can do that he can do James Webb
No rush on that video. They can do it when it launches in the mid 2030's.
@@JCO2002 the construction is done and is already being prepped, its going to launch at some point this year unless something catastrophic happens and at that point it would most likely just be canceled at that point
I met some of the contractors working on the JWST a few years back and they were awesome people.
should have been titled 'Hyperloop: The Future of Transport, or Just a Pipedream?'
Nice
BA DA BUM BUM TSHSHSHSHSHHSHS
@@megaprojects9649 Serious missed opportunity there.
Or Hyperloop, Elon Musk V the Simpsons
shepherd cue the Monorail salesman.
"The hyperlink will run on solar energy." Hahaha! Good luck with that! Might as well say it'll run on 4 Duracell AA batteries.
I'd like to point out that the solar power angle is the LEAST insane thing about the hype-loop. Calgary's C-train light rail is powered entirely by wind turbines thanks to their long-term contracts with their electric power providers (which means that they don't have to be plugged directly into the turbines or solar panels for this to be true).
@BLOOD RIVER CULT OFFICIAL. So how do you maintain that with hundreds of pods entering and leaving in a 500 mile pipe?
I can't believe people believe this vaporware
@The human movement what about the SC Maglev? lol. What if anything breaks and crew needs to inspect? How much it would take to recreate the vacuum?
Forget the technical hurdles, check out at the price.
1. Maglev: quite expensive, there are fewer than half a dozen operational tracks in the world.
2. Tunnelling and/or tubes: terribly expensive, even with the proposed savings.
3. Evacuating air (even for a partial vac): terribly expensive.
Adding all of the 3 above, what do you get? Awfully expensive to build AND run!
Missed a golden opportunity to use "or just a pipe dream?" in the title
BA DA BUM BUM TSHS
lol, well done JS :)
They can't even keep the simple oil pipelines safe from accidents - how do you think something as complex as Hyperloop will fare?
Vedran Brnjetic getting rid of greedy republicans would be a start
@@robertstalnaker5728 uh, what?
@@robertstalnaker5728 For everyone below: Don't feed the troll.
Aryan Bhuta I hope it’s a troll
@@wavywatson4469 So do I, but it probably is. Let's face it, the number of people who would say something like that is low enough for this to probably be a troll
It's working already. That high tech pipe technologie is designed to pump out effortlessly money from million of wallets at speeds never possible before. And it works like a charm, with a very low carbon footprint also.
😂😂😂
C - 137 Dreams are my reality...🎼🎺🎷🎹🎸👯👯
The fact that this boondoggle was taken seriously will become a case study in how embarrassingly low scientific literacy is among the general population.
And especially in people that can invest large amount of money or, worse, are governing entire countries
🤪 because Elon says it's easy.
@@Supraboyes but he’s leading the new space race 🤔
@@Inyourbox-kr5uf he's a con man
Indeed. Musk is the High Priest of tech for technically illiterate people. He talks of the sort of tech they want to hear even though it's bullshit. He knows how to play these people, who include politicians and financiers - all arts graduates.
Thermal expansion kills the Hyperloop, plus the numerous other issues that make it highly dangerous and impractical!
@BLOOD RIVER CULT OFFICIAL. How many pumps do you need on a 500 mile pipe? How are the seals maintained? How often do they need replacement? How does this work with entering and leaving pods in the hundreds per hour?
@BLOOD RIVER CULT OFFICIAL. Do you unterstand that a bullet train Luke the Shinkansen transports oder 1000 people at several miles per hour? Over 1 million people are transported by bullet train in Japan. You compare it to a non working system that transports zero persons and does not even have one working minibus that can operate on the assumed 700 miles per hour. So we have no idea what the running costs of a maglev in near vacuum at 700 miles per hour is. The idea that it is cheaper then existing systems is based on gut feelings and assumptions.
Yes! The
YES !!! The SpaceX hyperloop white paper suggested a “solution” to thermal expansion could be a telescopic exit walkway, similar to the accordion bridge used to get on an airplane. Except it would have to be 100 yards long, LOL. The mechanical stresses of hundreds of tons of steel expanding (sliding along pylons presumably?) - that’s if they used rollers, which they still haven’t addressed at all. Really they would probably need expansion joints
This is one of the biggest scams started by Musk. This impractical, expensive and impossible. You just said hyper-loop dream isn’t far but they’ve achieved no progress other than creating a 500m tube in the middle of dessert and had only achieved 250+km an hour. If I’m right Japanese Shinkansen and future maglev is already fast and most importantly already had been discovered.
The *current maglev in shanghai that has been open since 2002 is 431 km/h. look what we have after 20 years of progress.
Seriously?? 13:25 The outer shell consisting of "vibranium"? What are they going to mine it out of comic books that mention Wakanda?
That idiotic name really says all about what juvenile level, the hypeloop salesmen operate on. And about all the fanboys who think the animations are cool because they're like something from a Marvel movie. It's beyond ridiculous.
It's a real world composite material. They just called it vibranium, because it sounds cool. It's also kinda deserves the name. It's incredibly strong.
@@m.hansen1149 would you be as mad if they called it adamantium?
I hope so. Someone needs to pitch this to studios.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibranium#Real-world_material
The logistics of drawing a vacuum that large are unfeasible, and even if you overcome that it's crazy dangerous. The only way to make it safe is to lower the speed, but then this system is no faster than existing maglev train technology.
‘No faster then a maglev system’
Bro this stupid thing will never never never Ever come Close to the speed of a maglev let alone faster.
It’s just stupid on every level, just put the money into high speed rail, we’ve already perfected that technology which has sooo many perks over this garbage, and none of the weaknesses. What happens if a pod stops in the middle of a ‘track’ between stops, how do people get out? What happens in an emergency?
My Prediction: Musk will make just a regular-ass high-speed train for way more than what they usually cost, and call it the “Hyperloop”. Maybe it’ll be in a 1 atm tube.
He could put it in his Vegas disco tunnel
The musktards will eat that up and act like elon just re-invented the train
You were way to optimistic ;)
he made a small tunnel without any safety measures where Teslas drive around, transporting not even half of the people he promised... What a scam and people still praise him as the tech messiah
@@penedrador We should start calling it for what it is. It's a cult.
😞, if only. Honestly a high speed train will be a dream at this point. This fo*l built a disco tunnel.
Just think of the colossal number of joints a tube would require and the amount of expansion and contraction due to temperature. Maintaining a low pressure will be insanely difficult.
It’s not a MegaProject Simon, It is a mega-scam.
When you see a lot of people and companies invest into an unfeasible project, it is always some money laundering or rather a way to steal money buy investing it.
I believe that Thunderf00t has addressed this quite comprehensively.
No, not even by having made about 13 excruciatingly repetitive videos on the subject
He’s a joke. Use better sources
@Gmail X thunder has an engineering degree? News to me. Maybe you should update his Wikipedia.
His degree in biochemistry seems too make him oddly good at rhetoric. Engineering not so much. Want an example of this. Look for his back log of falcon 9 videos. If he hasn't deleted those embarrassing things yet.
Watch this: th-cam.com/video/EMfvUSrEDvo/w-d-xo.html Thunderf00t had some pretty large errors and mistakes in his video
you can't spell Hyperloop without the word "hype"
sek153 You can’t spell Hyperloop without ‘yperlo’. Yes I don’t understand either but that’s not the point.
Or Poo or Loopy or Loo. Hyperloop is an anagram of R Hype Loop
HYPE TRAIN ^^
The technological challenges can probably be overcome. The biggest hurdles are safety, acquisition of rights of way, suitability of terrain, and build time (=$$$$$$). You can’t have even a hiccup - ever. Especially for passengers but also a tube was shutdown would cause massive disruptions in the transportation network that depended on it, even assuming that multiple tubes were in place. . Looking at California’s high speed rail project (HSRP), the time and cost of acquiring rights of way has proven to be MASSIVELY more expensive and time consuming than estimated by HSRP’s proponents. Suitability of terrain - active earthquake zones, environmentally sensitive areas, mountains, rivers, and population centers just to name a few. Build time - looking again at California, the HSRP is years behind schedule to even get a small portion running and it’s nowhere near major population centers. Time delays have resulted in massive cost overruns. Hyperloop technology is very cool and will continue to attract investors hoping for fat government contracts, but in the end will have limited real world utility.
The hyperloop uses essentially the same amount of steel and concrete as high speed rail, but laid to much tighter tolerances. Musk said it would cost one tenth of high speed rail - yeah, right. The transportation value in terms of capacity is rather low. The passenger experience is an order of magnitude worse than flying. And none of the hyperloop companies have come close to beating high speed rail velocities on a regular sustained basis.
And it's unsafe, cannot deal with accidents & breakdowns, and unmaintainable. It's just amazing just how many unsolvable problems it has.
Idea: high speed, high capacity, air cushioned pods in nearly a perfect vacuum, traveling hundreds of kilometres!
Reality: Teslas in really short and RGB lit tunnels...
What a joke, and fanboys still believe everything...
A whole episode of a show on megaprojects about a vaporware gadgetbahn.
2:00 - Chapter 1 - Concept & potential benefits
4:20 - Chapter 2 - The atmospheric railway
5:10 - Chapter 3 - Tube travel
6:45 - Chapter 4 - Elon Musk & Hyperloop alpha concept
9:20 - Chapter 5 - Hyperloop competition
10:20 - Chapter 6 - Open sourced evolution
11:35 - Chapter 7 - Where will the 1st Hyperloop emerge ?
14:50 - Chapter 8 - Criticism
16:15 - Chapter 9 - To the future
- Chapter 10 -
We'll have a space elevator and fusion power plants and the Webb telescope will be in operation before the Hyperloop is a thing.
Ha ha ha the Webb telescope. That's cruel (but funny).
Probably not the space elevator. Apparently they would slow the Earth's rotation.
@@bneskylights1152 It would, but not by a noticeable amount.
If you jump up and down, you actually slow the Earth down by a tiny amount, millionths of a nanosecond.
Anyway, the main problem with the space elevator is finding a material strong enough to hold it together
@@bneskylights1152 by a miniscule amount, Im sure my *ERECT pENiS* has the same effect on the Earth's momentum.
Neither will fusion power. We are working on that one since we found out how to split an atom. Probably before telescope but you never know they are delaying it for years now.
I find it funny that a lot of people who dismissed high speed rail or maglev as too dangerous or too expensive seem to love a system that is even more expensive and dangerous just because it’s flashier and faster.
Faster is pretty much the driving force. LA to SF in 35 minutes would change my life in a significant way. Yes, of course they need to solve the problems of safety and cost. I don't understand why all the hate. Is development of hyperloop having a negative impact on anybody?
@@DouglasLippi Because its BS. This thing is just a maglev in a tube, with far smaller trains. Nothing adds up, its pure BS.
@@barrelrolldog you can't discount the significance of the tube. The tube is the key to potentially crazy fast speeds. I wouldn't say this is BS. The theory is sound. Whether or not they can make it technically and economically feasible remains to be seen. The way I see it is if private people want to spend their money on it, why should you care? If it flops why should you care? If they were spending massive amounts of taxpayer money, then yeah I would definitely care, but that is not the case (in the US anyway).
@@DouglasLippi Why should i care? because its BS. People should focus on, and invest in modes of transport that actually work. The tube part of the concept does not work, so all it does is add to the costs. We already know a maglev works, it's just too expensive, so it's pretty dumb to say a maglev with a tube will be even cheaper than a maglev- which we already cannot have due to the economics. do you see my point? Musk is just a waste of everyones time.
@@barrelrolldog well here in the US we have this thing called freedom. People get to do whatever they want within the law. Geez, there's a little tyrant under every rock it seems ..
Thunderf00t already debunked it.
@ It was only conceived 8 years, and there isn't a hyperloop version of Moore's law to magically make it more cost-effective. But there are at least 9 companies actively developing the tech, and they have full-blown competitions which they full test prototypes in the test track. It is an active area of research at major universities around world. And there are debates by real experts; but the idea that a random TH-camr, who is technical, but in a completely different field debunked this idea, and 9 companies and academic researcher around the world would waste massive amount time and money by ignoring information that some guy on TH-cam was able to gather with only the power of Google and he's understanding of science; is quite frankly stupid.
He also supposedly debunked "Feminism", where he debunked the craziest strawmen that fox news could come up with to represent feminist philosophy. He made a great series on why people laugh at creationists, and he's a smart guy. However, like a lot of smart people who also find early success, his ego outgrew his brain and started talking on subjects he is not an expert as if he is an expert in those fields too. For example, he does the same stupid thing that all "Men's Rights" groups do, bring up the handful cases being a man goes against you(i.e. custody, sentencing, military service), as evidence that sexism isn't a thing and "proof" that feminism is actual misandry. Except that even a freshmen level class on Feminism, literally address these issue and the fact they exist are the reason we still need feminist. Not to mention a philosophy as varied as feminism, it's not hard to find examples of radical feminists, and using them as a representation for all feminists is either incredibly ignorant or intellectually dishonest. So an expert in Feminist philosophy Mr. Foot is not, and I suspect the same is true for the Hyperloop.
@@mage1over137 feminism is rubbish, only for idiots who haven't evolved properly, why don't you make the world better instead of whining after your evolution of course. Try to invent or do something productive instead of some vanity scheme, if you did that maybe the majority of women might give a shit. Or not
@@mage1over137 Yeah, I don't go to thunderf00t for social commentary because ugh.
@@amanrusom9498 well you clearly never watched Thunderf00t or you would understand that's not how evolution works. It's also quite clear the most thought you've put into feminism is, that you don't like it because it makes you feel inadequate as a man. In any case, is "inventing something productive" your plan to find a woman? How is that working out, with you obvious disdain for woman I'm guessing not so much.
Virgin Hyperloop, in Februalry 2022, have given up on the idea of carrying passengers in H-L and concentrate on freight. A very sensible decision. The serious safety, comfort, and reglatory issues involved with passengers has hardly been addressed yet, and will be very difficult to address.
They have sacked half their staff, a very serious setback for H-L. The shit is hitting the fan.
The trouble with dumping passengers for freight only is the benefits of hyperloop become a highly expensive and pointless. Freight trains carry slow bulk. Freight that benefits from speed, such as produce, can't compete with the point-to-point distribution of trucks.
Aside from all the engineering problems already discussed there's another. It takes as long to get 10 people in/out of a pod as it takes to get 1,000 in/out of a train.
What matters most in rapid transit is not the top speed it's people per hour.
"Opposition of boils down to opposition to change."
A lot of opposition is simply ridicule for a fairly fanciful idea. The idea of being able to maintain a near vacuum in a structure that size, over seasonal changes, and ground shifts is just being ignored.
Hyperloop was envisioned for Mars where the ground level pressure is 100th that of earth's and the tunnels provide radiation shielding. It's the perfect transportation system - for Mars. Hopefully the money pumped into hyperloops being built on Earth will yield useful information relevant for building on on Mars.
I envision a fiscally feasible & functional hyperloop to Mars in 2035.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 if it was envisioned for mars: why borther with a tube ? maglev do the same shit and better.
and will go faster due to lower air resistance. Don't try to be dishonnest here. the mars thing happend way after.
eddit: it also happend way after the "let's stop using plane and use rocket instead" another ridiculous thought from Mr Smoke Pot
@@ereder1476 ignorance is bliss, i see once again
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 Nonsense -- you're confabulating.
I cannot remember which year was (2004 or 2005) on April's fool day, a Swedish newspaper had an article on this!!! "Travel in one hour between Stockholm and Lofoten islands". All these with an underground vacuum tunnels. I was laughing when I read and I still do.
"Hyperloop will be operational somewhere in the World by 2020."
September 13th 2021;
_"Hold my Vodka ."_
🍸🧉🥛🍶🍷🍵
I have a theory, it goes a little something like this:
Hyperloop is not meant to be used here on earth. Building a vacuum/low pressure tube the length they are talking about is just not practical here (plenty of videos explain why on YT). But there is a place where atmospheric pressure is not a big problem, and that is Mars. A place where fast travel in a shielded tube would be a major benefit. So my guess is that Elon is pushing this idea to start of with the RnD so they don't have to start from scratch when/if they do get to Mars.
Bonus theory: The Boaring company is kinda the same idea. The traffic tunnel networks under cities(again debunked in many a video for being impractical) is just hype to get money from investors for researching tunneling technology which will be needed on Mars for building underground habitat's, which if you look at some of the proposals for potential living/agricultural spaces, underground tunnels is one of them.
Mars certainly need some holes dug to become livable, being 3 meters underground is as almost good a radiation shield as we get from the atmosphere, and if we dug in before sending people, they could move into the hole once they got there. Plus you could get a lot of rock samples that way. We'd have to figure out dry tunneling though, since what we use here on Earth uses a huge amount of water to clear chips and generally move the mined material away. It would take a large amount of power, too, of course, so we need portable fusion power first. And really durable robots to run/be the equipment. Those would be extremely useful here on Earth, too. If some funding for idiotic boondoggles like hype-loop gets used to work on practical robotics, power and tunneling, then that's OK. Those aren't exactly non-profit technologies though, so we should just directly fund them instead of death trains.
I also have a theory: After a few slow or rapid depressurization accidents, the hyperloop is over.
Well, it took one Hindenburg disaster to kill airship travel, so one accident might be enough here too...
So basically, fraud
It's what Elon envisioned it to be for in the first place. Electric cars, solar panels, battery systems, hyperloop, boring company, rockets. All needed for Mars. There is no endeavour that Musk is working on that is NOT meant for Mars. Side benefits are for Earth. Many do not realise Musk is not doing all this for money. He just has an unstoppable urge to go to Mars, so he's building a path to get there.
Yeah, sounds cool. Except in a seismically active area... like California or Japan. All you would need is a one millimeter ground shift to produce a crack removing the vacuum and then you'll have immense pressures that are not accounted for. Or a forested area where a root system could grow into the tube thus causing the same issue.
Or uneven thermal expansion.. or corroding tubes.. or idiots messing with the system in some way. Or a simple mechanical faimure which would leave the passengers stranded in a tunnel with no access points...
"Governments or large organizations rarely willing to put their faith in supremely expensive projects like this"
F-35 and SLS: "Am I a joke to you?"
To be fair both of those projects kinda are jokes...
F-35 and SLS are base upon mature technologies, they are expensive but in an engineering sense they are relatively low risk.
@@RJ-rg2iz Why is F-35 a joke, it is in service and proving to be a quantum leap over previous generation combat platforms.
@@Fedaykin24 because its expensive to produce and maintain, uneeded since its never in combat, has a very limited operational time, requires ALOT of support, but most importantly, has absolutely no real use today.
@@marcosdheleno Everything you have written there is wrong! With each Block F-35 is coming down in price and is very competitive vs the Eurocanards. Its maintenance and production costs are coming down with each Block. It is not in combat because it is new but has been used operational over conflict zones. It is proving to be very useful operationally and is proven by every nation that operates the type!
The oft quoted "30 minutes from LA to San Fran" is just as true for a jet as a hyperloop. The reason it takes 2 hours is all of the ancillary activity: parking, security screening, etc. And it won't be any different at a future hyperloop station than at the current airport. It's a total waste of money.
Like EEVblog already said, the Hyperloop is nothing than an empty pipe-dream (pun totally intended).
Here are several problems with it that you have not touched upon, nor have I found ANYONE ever, adressing those problems.
1: IF the energy necessary to create and hold the vaccuum was to come from phtovoltaic panels then having them at a flat horizontal plane on top would reduce their efficiency significantly; ie so much so, that not even a complete coverage overground would supply the necessary energy for the high-efficiency vaccuum pumps that would have to stationed all along the pipe. It would NOT be sufficient to power the mag-lev in and of itsself. So where does the additional energy required come from?
2: How large are the pods going to be finally, and how much carrying capacity will each complete pod have? Because no-one has done ANY calculations of the actual freight capacity of a pod. Because pods need to be boarded by passengers in some kind of airated station. As such the pods can't be in a vaccuum when being boarded. So to enter the pipe, the pods would have to travel either a short distance into some kind of air-lock that would then have to be evacuated. But creating such a vaccuum is not a fast thing. Simply locking the pod in an airlock, then opening the airlock to the evacuated tube would catapult the pod forward at internal organ crushing accelerations of several hundred G. So a vaccuum would have to be generated in the airlock. Creating a near-vaccuum from one atmosphere of pressure for any kind of container takes between 5 and 20 minutes. So in essence, you might have at best one pod on its way every five minutes. The trouble with a larger pod is that it would also need a much larger airlock, which would in turn require so much more time to evacuate. Physics simply is a bitch, she will bite you in the ass each and every time when you ignore her.
So the total number of people per hour is the limiting factor. So if the pods hold only 30-40 people each (as I surmise will be limit from the largest models I have seen, with much smaller numbers proposed by Elon Musk himself, saying something around 10 people per pod), this in essence limits the number of people per hour to a total of 480 people. Or for a measly 9000 people at best per day. That is nothing, absolutely NOTHING in any kind of real comuter capacity. For a feasable commuter system it would have to carry tens of thousands of people per hour, not around 500. For example the city of Frankfurt a.M./Germany, has a night-time population of 600 000, but a day-time working population of over 2 million. So at least 1.4 million people commute each day into and out of the city. To accomplish that hundreds of trains, trams, buses, and thousands of cars travel into the city during rush-hour. The 1.4 million is even a conservative guess, some even speculate of up to 2.4 million.
3: How are security measures for the Hyperloop going to be kept up? Because anything that will absolutely guarantee everyone inside it to go 'mush' should any kind of accident occur, is going to be the target of terrorists. So security checks would have to be introduced for the Hyperloop, making boarding even longer than anything I have asked about above. Heck, even a true accident such as a loose screw being kicked up by the passage of the pod, piercing the tubes wall, would cause instant reinflation of the tube which would rip apart the pods traveling in it like wet tissue paper in a tornado.
4: How is the security of the pipe vs adverse weather and ground effects going to be ensured? You know, something like even a minor earthquake in California? Which does occur fairly regularly.
5: IF Hyperloop is going to be built underground (not even assuming a near-total vaccuum) how is the cost being calculated for a line from Los Angeles to San Francisco still be considered possible at a mere 6 billion dollars, when the best tunnel builders of the world (the Swiss) had to calculate the St. Gotthard-Basistunnel is already considered to be 12 billion CHF (Swiss Franks) or around 12 billion dollars. Only that the Gotthard Basistunnel is neither an evacutated tube, nor is it several hundred miles long, but rather only a measly 57 km (appr. 40 miles). That is an indicator how the costs for a completely underground tunnel from LA to SF would EXPLODE the costs into completely unrealistic heights.
6. Passengers ABSOLUTELY have to be seated if the pods accelerate at the rates given in the video. So there is NO way for passengers to get up during their travel. Unluckily the pods would have to slow down much slower than they accelerated as the seats would be facing the wrong way. Traveling at close to Mach 1 (or assuming the BS about Mach 2.4 or even higher for the most outlandish propositions were true) will take a significant amount of time. As such, not the whole distance will be traveled at the top speed. In effect the proposed travel time of a mere 45 minutes from LA to SF completely ignores security checks, boarding time, depressurization, acceleration and decceleration times, repressurization, and deboarding times. Thats like saying: "Hey, an airplane can travel from LA to SF at 670 mph so it takes only 1 hour 20 minutes in total." That's the kind of BS that Musky's fanboys always spout, but don't get called out on.
These are only some of the questions that have been left unanswered, so being a Muskovite fanboy is not going to help here.
Please, someone out there answer these questions before more time, money, and resources are being wasted on this absolutely ridiculous project.
Space Elevator Episode?
We have the ability to build a space elevator right now.
It'd just have to be on the moon to work.
+1
@@Charlie-js8rj It cannot work on the Moon as its rotation rate is WAY too slow.
Yes
litterally came to say this
A video on tokyo's flood systems.
Yo, that's a good one I never even know they had em until a few weeks ago
Its been done on discovery and nat Geo , might not get the the of viewership they want..
I saw another request for it & since then wanted to see this. ＾＾
second that
If we could only bend space, it would be much quicker to get to the other side of the galaxy.
I always thought this is why Han made the Kessel run in 12 Parsecs... FTL drive's speed is measured in distance as c is true max speed. But then the SOLO movie ruined all that ;(
@@StinkPickle4000 The reason for this is that the Kessel run isn't a set course, but rather a journey between Kessel and another planet whose name escapes me (Ord mantel, possibly?) Between these two points lay many dangerous astronomical phenomena, including the largest cluster of black holes in the galaxy. The shorter one made the trip, the more dangerous it became, and before that god-aweful movie that we shall not mention, Han Solo achieved this short run by performing a slingshot maneuver via the gravity well of a black hole.
"Hyperloop will be operational, somewhere in the world, by 2020"
* Laughs in Covid-19 *
*laughs in physics*
Mark my words, it will never open. It’s not physically possible .
@@dinosore4782 That's not what I meant to say by that. I mean it would be a massive challenge to maintain and probably be too unsafe compared to other modes of travel to ever be viable. It's certainly *possible*, that just doesn't mean it's *practical*.
@@h.w.6563 right I was responding to OP, but when you take into account like everything that exists, it can’t compete with everything else . Bullet trains about to be real life going 700 miles per hour and people will still be like one day a hyperloop bro!!!
One of the main, and often-overlooked, problems of Hyperloop is the capacity of the system. Each pod has approximately the same passenger capacity as a rollercoaster train. A well-run rollercoaster, like those at the Disney or Universal Studios parks, can dispatch around 2000 passengers per hour under optimal conditions. That's with separate loading/unloading bays, always having a new train waiting at the end brakes ready to enter the station so there's always a train being unloaded while another loads, assigning passengers to their seat before they even board the train, allowing passengers to board the train directly into their seats, and nobody having any luggage. Clearly, this best-case scenario for rollercoasters is unfeasible for Hyperloop to achieve. You just can't board the pods fast enough. Even the coasters built for fast throughput can't hit 2000 every time, and with Hyperloop you're likely down to the capacity of less efficient coasters: 3-400 passengers per hour per station.
That really doesn't cut it for commuting. Take the Victoria Line on the London Underground: during peak hours, it transports 30,000 people per hour in each direction. Granted, you are unlikely to see that many people wanting to travel between big cities at the same time, but 3-400 pph is still woefully inadequate.
"But aha, what if you have several station bays loading and unloading in parallel?" Sure, that would increase the dispatch capacity of the system, but then you're running into other interesting problem. The need for multiple track switches, for one, with carefully timed valves to allow trains to enter and exit the main tube. There would have to be some sort of taxi system, like at airports, where pods are queued up to wait their turn. With passengers behaving unpredictably, you can't time the dispatch of each pod down to the second, or to the 30-second interval, which means a traffic control system at the station would be required too. By the way, remember how much time of a passenger flight is spent waiting around the airport for take-off and landing? And all the faff about boarding? Those 45 minutes between San Francisco and Los Angeles, for instance, would quickly be accompanied by about the same amount of time waiting at either end.
At this point, it is evident that a Hyperloop station would have to be fairly big. About the size of a train terminal, at least. This means it would require a lot of space, which tends to be at a premium in big cities. That means downtown-to-downtown travel is out of the question. You would have to build it outside the city core, with public transport links to downtown, and suddenly you have all the faff of an airport, famously being a hassle to get to and from at both ends of your journey.
All this while competing against trains, which have long since grabbed the premium downtown real estate in cities where it's available, cars, which take people from door to door and considerably cutting down the hassle of short-to-mid-range travel, or planes, which can compete pretty comfortably on long-distance trips since they don't require all that expensive infrastructure in the middle.
All this goes on to suggest it would be better to improve passenger rail instead of replacing it with Hyperloop. It can utilize existing infrastructure, has a much larger capacity, and lacks several of those engineering challenges Hyperloop struggles with. It may not have the same awesome speed during the middle leg of the journey, but it more than makes up for it in efficiency.
Thanks to thunderf00t's 13 or so excruciatingly repetitive, misleading and inaccurate videos on this one subject so many fools think the Hyperloop cannot be done. It can. The only question is, as you have touched on, whether or not it could be viable. I hope so, but share your concerns.
@@kirkc9643: I think the engineering challenges could be solved, and the existing test beds will probably go a long way towards creating a fully working stretch of track. The issue is more what happens around the stations, and the economy/logistics of operating the system. That's where I think Hyperloop falls short. In a technical sense it could surely surely be feasible to send pods at high speeds through vacuum tubes, but it doesn't seem very well suited as a transport system.
3:55 "The HyperLoop will run on solar energy..." WHAT?! HOW? The answer is, it can't. First things first, the average solar panel produced in a factory has an efficiency of around ten to twenty percent. The highest grade solar panel has an efficiency of fifty percent. The problem with these solar panels is that they are produced in a laboratory, and they can be very expensive. This makes the project WAY MORE costly than predicted, and impractical. Okay, well let's assume we live in a perfect world where solar efficiency has reached the impossible one-hundred percent. Well now we have another problem. Solar panels can only reach that impossible one-hundred percent in broad daylight. And with that comes another problem. Weather is, well, weather. It can be sunny, it can be cloudy, rainy, stormy, hurricaney. The point is, powering an entire system of low-pressure tubes and 750mph pods with solar power is a fantisable dream, and an impossible idea.
This thing is such bull, where do they get these numbers like 10x safer, 800 mph when after 8 years nobody has come up with a working prototype.
This things a cool idea, but that’s just it.
I can daydream up a million sci-fi inventions but it’s a long way from the dream to the working concept.
Yes I would like to see the 800 miles per hour prototype on a 500 mile pipe in near vacuum with a few hundred passengers embarking and disembarking.
My guess is a very short hyperloop will function somewhere for weeks maybe months then be abandoned due to horrific maintenance costs and a likely tragic loss of life within 2 years.
How did you get this one so wrong?? Trains in tubes are absolutely no better than trains outside of tubes.
"California building it's high speed rail." ROFLMAO waiting for that project to come on Brightsun Films page LOL
I hope not, sounds like a decent way to get around
In regards to building in California, imagine flying down a tunnel at 2,000 kph and a huge earthquake happens
Depends on the main rail. I mean the magnetic force involved should keep the train on track as long as it has power else you are burned up toast.
@@playlistnor Lol you obviously without a shadow of a doubt have no idea what you're talking about.
@@Kai...999 why, if the rail is working you are kept on it by the forces involved, if it's suddenly looses power you touch the rail or the wall and you are burned up toast... At these speeds you are basically akin to a really heavy kinetic penetretator. Those get pretty warm on impact and burn. Even if they the steel.
"Hyper Loops will exist somewhere in the world by 2020"
Me in 2020: **looks around** well that sucks...
**reads pinned comment** oh 😅
It's just that future isn't here just yet.
@@soberhippie That is the problem with the future. The future is always out of reach.
2021 still no commercial Hyperloop minibus route
Simon's beard is becoming a Megaproject.
Hey, bald men with beards are beautiful. There is nothing wrong with being bald and having a beard. Unless he can't change a tire, or do a tune up, or rebuild his engine, then maybe he should shave it.....
A cubic meter of air has a weight of 1.29 kg.
The area to the tube if the tune is 10 m2 if the diameter is about 3.6m.
So if there is a near vacuum for 100m in front of you 10m2 * 100m you get about 1000m3 of air with 1.29kg of weight so every 100 m of vacuum creates about 1.28 tons of missing air.
This air will shoot in the tube with air speed if there is a failure in the tube. So 20km of tube collapse in front of you will create 256 tons of missing air shooting through the tube and you will be the projectile in the tube.
Just look at the vacuum cannon where the myth busters shoot a ping-pong ball with near air speed out of it.
I think the stopping of your pod and the fast acceleration into the other direction will create g forces that just kill you in an instant.
Just look at Thunderfoots debunking video it is on point.
I love how you say "per hour" It becomes something like "prah". Love it!
Thunderf00t has covered this quite a lot, it's a stupid and extremely dangerous ides and costs way more than was Musk said it does
If it isn't dangerous then it's boring. No risk = no reward.
@@fvckyoutubescensorshipandt2718 yeah but... if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Only the fact that is a steel tube without easy access for emergencies makes it a potential death trap.
Yeah I still haven't seen his concerns addressed, let alone acknowledged... A bit worrying given he's a genuine working scientist.
@@ilotitto you can say same thing about planes, yet they manage to fly normally. Part of every transport is risk, just we are used to it.
@@TheSkullProphet the problem I see is evacuation. You can try and land a plane and evacuate it, like it happened in many occasions, but people on the HL won't have anywhere to go if the thing fails and starts burning. This even happened in the Eurotunnel, where there is an emergency service tunnel specific for this kind of scenario, and thankfully people where able to escape. Belive me, I love the idea, but it's the proposed execution that I don't agree with.
"Open Source" aka: I have this idea I'm not smart enough to make work so we'll give college kids a whack at it!
@C - 137 Who said anything about rockets? I didn't. Get your glasses checked.
also aka: it's not really my own idea, I took it from a guy who died 100 years ago,
@Niklaus Crowley yes you are allowed (if the patents are not still held) but you can't claim it as your own idea, and you can't proclaim that you are giving it to the world for free, because it wasn't yours to begin with. See the difference now?
I feel like you would’ve criticised him more if he didn’t open source it
Imagine the global problems that could be solved if open sourcing was an applied to everything...
You wouldn't get despots like Trump trying to run their countries into the ground... 👍
MegaProject:
‘Project Internet’
Massive. Successful. Lifestyle changing. All encompassing.
Actually yeah, that would be a good one
Used EXISTING infrastructure. LEARN RECENT HISTORY LARRY
There is a simple issue that is missed in virtually all conversation about hyperloop; how to deal with horizontal and vertical acceleration induced by a change in direction. It is really really hard to build very long , very straight and very level lines and this is really important for a vehicle containing humans traveling 700mph. Civil engineers use 4 ways to get around an obstruction: over, under, around or through. Through is the most desirable but quite expensive. On a long enough line there will always be obstructions that money will not solve.
I see this as the main objection. Notice it is always shown in a flat desert like @13:47. Even that CGI curve @2:57 would be much too sharp for the speed involved.
There was a Prototype Pneumatic Subway built in New York before the later / currently system was built. It was abandoned and then later found by tunnelers digging another subway tunnel. It is rumored that the Pneumatic Train Station still exists today under a ventilator grate near City Hall.
Seems extremely unimpressive that they made an electric sled go vroom on a track
Yep. Seems extremely unimpressive they made a complicated machine to carry people slower than a horse.
Um.. unsafe, expensive, compex to load/unload... Maybe just use a regular maglev or high speed rail for 1/10th or less the price. Proven tech. The concord taught everyone that pure speed sacrificing practicality is meaningless.
@@ccibinel there would be no innovation if you only use proven tech.
I agree that hyperloop is too impractical for present use but it's principles may someday be used for highspeed travel.
No research is useless research.
@Ritwick
I do agree that the research might become useful for other applications. Such as moonbase travel which looks to be likely within the next ten to fifteen years.
I mean travel on the moon between location on the moon. Not travel to the moon. lol.
I’d love to be in a train crashing at 800mph. Sounds fun
not just crashing but also being crushed by a concusive force of air while again going the speed of sound and then hitting an opposing bit of air at the speed of sound
Some thoughts of an airline pilot about this:
The NASA recommended speed of mach .85 is exactly the same speed modern long-haul aircraft such as the Boeing 787 or Airbus A350 cruise at. The reason for that being that it's as fast as you can go before parts of the airflow become trans- or supersonic, which in turn will massively increase drag and thus use a ton more energy. So since physics stay the same, I image the hyperloop would most likely travel at a very similar speed; unless they go supersonic all the way, with all the drawbacks of that, such as very high energy consumption and the sonic boom.
Also, if hyperloops become a continent connecting form of transit, it will also need passport controls and security checks just like an airport, because as vital infrastructure it would be a possible target for a terrorist attack. So hyperloop ports would most like resemble modern airports more than anything else.
While I see a use case for hyperloops, in connecting Paris to Rome, Boston to Chicago or Hong Kong to Shanghai, and/or even function as feeder trains for large international airports such as London Heathrow, I have trouble seeing huge advantages at continent transversing distances, especially considering costs.
Bonus fact: Captain America's shield is often hailed as being made entirely of Vibranium, but in some cases, can be a Vibranium/Adamantium alloy.
I had no idea Branson was working on a Hyperloop. Thanks for the info. Great episode!
Tell me when a hyperloop actually transports a single person. Until then I don't care.
Did you hear about the Teslas driving in smal RGB tunnels? XD
What a joke
@@penedrador if building a tunnel is all it takes for someone to be considered an unprecedented Genius then Croatia might invent a teleporter next year. They clearly have a lot of Intellectuals with all these tunnels they have.
@@elseggs6504 and their Tunnels even have more than one line! Truly genuis!!
@@penedrador But wait! Theres more! These tunnels even have emergency exits!
Overhyped pipedream.
The infrastructure costs vs "regular" high-speed rail is ridiculous. It is a wasteful use of resources. The price of the infrastructure for a complete EU network vs regular rail would be beyond astronomical, and so would the subsequent scheduled day-to-day maintenance.
An L. A. to S. F. track would be a 350 miles (if perfectly straight) long vacuum chamber. The thermal expansion on the steel tube alone, would generate more leaks than a fragmentation grenade on a water-bed.
I'm all for more solar power integration as a rule, but the whole "it'll run on solar" - shtick needs to stop. That would mean no night operation or in the North where there isn't a lot of sun 6 months off the year. Solar and wind is nice, if you can back it up with hydro, geothermal or nuclear.
Regular and high speed rail needs to be improved in Europe. A complete overhaul and standardisation, plus a switch to electric for all tracks.
I think we will see electric passenger planes before a Hyperloop network.
The idea of building an overpriced Hyperloop track in India pains me more than anything else from the video. Building this vanity project in a country, where not every citizen has access to clean water or a toilet connected to a sewer system, just screams misuse of funding and disregard for human life.
Hyperloop is a transportation system envisioned for Mars. Ideal air pressure, and radiation shielding. Elon knew it wouldn't be feasible, if you ask me, but now others are working on it, and the results and tests will yield information relevant for building one on Mars.
C'm-on, it would perfectly work in space...
The argument that sun won't shine in the north is super irrelevant. I live in Canada and my city uses solar, but what's important is that my city is about as far north as people live. A few hours north of me there are only native reservations for the most part. Those places have serious problems far more pressing than whether solar can power a hyperloop train to them, they're more concerned with finally getting proper drinking water. Seriously these places make Flint Michigan look like a utopia. The federal government has been such a monumental failure in this regard. Back to the point lack of sunlight will never be a problem because society doesn't care about the people who live that far north
Also massive social inequality aside it's hard enough to get a railway, road, or pipeline to go that far north. Massive frost and thaw along with nothing but bog makes the far north absolutely irrelevant to any solar power argument. No one will ever actually care to try and commit any resources to the project.
Wow!
Who are you?!
The richest man in the world 😂🤣🤪🤔😁🙄😆🤭!?
Minor, but equally valid point IMHO, here: how is a pod supposed to "change tracks" if in a vacuum tube? That is a serious issue that undermines the idea at a fundamental level. If pods can't change tracks, how are they supposed to allow people off at intermediate stations? How are they supposed to be manouvered to a different tube for the return leg of their journey? How are they supposed to be shunted for maintenance? How is it possible to maintain the proposed frequency of the pods? How is the system supposed to be evacuated in case of accidents? And so on, and so forth… 🙄
It isn't. The idea is so absurd. There would be no energy savings because maintaining a near-vacuum on that scale would take insane amounts of energy.
Although Hyperloop was originally envisioned for Mars for which it is absolutely ideal, Hyperloop on earth, if at all feasible will end up being a tunnel that is one or two meters in diameter larger than the pods which through it's bullet shape squeezes the air around the pod and makes it float towards the centre of the tube. Speeds up to mach 2 should be possible. Will cost more energy, but it's the only viable way. A vacuum tube at 0.01 atmospheres simply is not maintainable, not even if it's completely underground (to prevent terrorist attacks). maybe at 0.5 or 0.3 atmoshperes it would become feasible. which is 30-50 times higher than originally envisioned.
OP did you know that a tube can have a split and another exit point, then an entrance point and back into the vacuum? Amazing. Not even hard to do.
@@davidbeppler3032 and how do you guide the pod into said exits?
The past in fluid conversation with future concepts, providing keys for how best we can live today.
Nice. I've written that in a piece before. I keep coming back to it, it's very true. So many ideas to explore, so little time. Never enough time.
Hi Simon, how about a show about space tourism, maybe the new space station concept where the average person can go stay at the Holiday Inn, in low earth orbit. Or maybe the new Simon Whistler getaway pod where you can watch Simon record one of his famous shows like Business Blaze, Biographics, Geographics, Megaprojects, Today I Found out, and many more. Don’t miss out on this wonderful opportunity, we’re taking reservations now. Allegedly
An ITER Episode, a real megaproject in the making.
13:45 "Zero to 110 mph in just a second" Impressive in a sports car, impractical in a mass transport.
Somewhat lethal in mass transport. I want to see a pregnant woman or a toddler in that acceleration.
@@cmdrtianyilin8107 Yes. But I was thinking "Suppose they do a full-court press to make it safe, what do they have to do?" and seeing that the answer was completely impractical: full-body restraints like a roller-coaster, refuse admittance to kids, the elderly, the infirm etc, attendants to check that everyone is strapped in, etc. All of that adds tons of cost and inconvenience.
I participated in the 2020 Space x hyperloop competition which was unfortunately canceled due to covid 19, what i can say is we ran into a big problem called END EFFECT. any speed over 200mph causes END EFFECT in the linear induction motor.
what is not mentioned in this video is that the TUM (technical uni of munich) team which won the last 4 competitions actually never used MAGLEV or LIMs they actually used WHEELS!
it was a speed competition and during the specifications of the previous years competitions using LIMs wasn't particularly mentioned, which allowed TUM to win in a disrespectful but legal manner.
If anyone would like any more information about this please don't hesitate to contact me at twitter.com/mmakki96
Thanks for doing my idea.
The cost to maintain a near vacuum in the tube is not practical not to mention the danger of cascade collapse of major section of the line due sudden pressure changes.
If it ever happens, waiting times at airports would reduce, to be replaced by waiting times at Hyper Loop stations.
Waiting times don't magically disappear.
When I was living in Japan, I went to the train station, bought a ticket, and with 10 minutes from the time I bought the ticket to on the moving train from Osaka to Tokyo. It cost me $15US more dollars than flying and a about 30 minutes longer trip on the train. Trains run every 15-30 minutes, no going through security. No waiting for everyone to be seated and luggage stored properly.
It can be half hour wait+ if the shikansen is busy, but most of the time it just walk on. However my next trip would have cost $800 and 8 hours by shikansen roundtrip vs 2 hour and $200US by plane. I choose plane. Trains are horrible when it comes to distances economically, which is why the US should never invest in trains where routes are not established, it doesn't make economic sense.
100% of 1000 people waiting at one terminal for 3 planes is going cause ques..
50% of 1000 people waiting at the airport, and the other 50% at the hyperloop terminal means half the wait time.. and hyperloop will have much more frequent services, perhaps as often as every minute or 2.. as well as quicker security checkpoints, which, really, is a major delay in air travel..
3 hours I've waited to get through security at times, and then more security shit at the other end!! that's just painful..
The wait at airports has much more to do with the carriers lying about how long a trip takes than anything else.
Decades ago official travel times were quite a bit longer than now, and wait times were MUCH lower, but the planes aren't really traveling any faster today.
I've read that airlines started to lengthen the stated travel times not all that long ago to try and fix the problem.
But they're still basically trying to get away with just listing the actual flight time, and not including the 30 minutes to board a plane, or the 5-15 minutes to both taxi and take off, and land and taxi to the terminal.
That makes a 3 hour flight actually take 4 hours or so.
Plus we have the slow security that the American taxpayers are mostly paying for.
@@GenoLoma You will have as much security checks before you enter the hyperloop minibus.
To be honest, the feasibility of _the whole_ thing has been questioned )
Who knows more, random clickbait internet dudes or thousands of engineers working on it?
@@Yutani_Crayven I very much trust Thunderf00t and EEVblog.
@@soberhippie I recall going over those quite a while ago, the whole adventure while not technically totally impossible does have some major issues.
The biggest ones that stand out from the vague memories about those are: safety, reliability and maintenance costs.
Operating capsules in a low pressure tube has a few safety risks if a large leak shows up anywhere and maintaining a normal sized vacuum chamber can already be interesting to put it mildly. Maintaining a vacuum will also be a challenge, multiple stops along the way would mean airlocks and potential leaks at every stop along the way. I don't want to think about the energy cost of maintaining said vacuum either, wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't make sense at all compared to the air resistance energy savings between a hyperloop and a normal train.
I'd also be interested in how it would handle temperature shifts, since it is essentially a long pipe that needs to maintain a perfect seal yet it'll expand and shrink depending on the temperature and exposure to the sun.
All this said though I'm not entirely surprised the video ended up like this, it takes a bit of digging around or actual technical knowledge about the subject to come across it. The good PR about it is obviously much easier to find with fancy presentations from companies with a stake in it. I also can't recall many times that general news outlets both written and on TV bother to question such technology projects, they often if tend to include a bit about the theory explained by someone affiliated by the company or not at all. Almost never a third party expert from some university for example.
@@Yutani_Crayven Thunderf00t hasn't been wrong on any of the concepts he debunked. If he was a 'random clickbait internet dude' and didn't know his shit, then why can't I take a sip out of my self filling water bottle while driving my thorium powered car on solar roadways to the beach to go scuba diving with my Triton artificial gill? Hint: Those are all also things he's debunked.
@@Yutani_Crayven there aren't thousands of engineers working on it. The few hundred that were have all moved on after realising "oh this is pretty much impossible"
Find any scientist or engineer who has published viable support for anything resembling a hyperloop in the next 100 years.
Thunderf00t entered the chat
th-cam.com/video/EMfvUSrEDvo/w-d-xo.html Thunderf00t has left the chat
Thunderf00t might be a good chemist/biochemist, but he is certainly not a good engineer.
Look at his video about hyperloop. A good portion of it is just he rumbling about some rust on the test tube and the fact that not every eye-hole had a bold fixing it to the concrete foundation.
TF is completely out of the loop when it come to how SpaceX does prototyping.
Rust?- Well, does rust interfere with our test program? no? Then why bothering me?
Not very last eye hole fixed?- Well, is the structure still sound? Yes? Then why buying more expensive bolts?
TF thinks that even the most basic prototype has to withstand every last condition the final product has to. Indefinitely.
@oƃƃə well, looking at his past videos, he is becoming kind of a sad obsessed person with his anti-hyperloop videos. I mean if it really wouldn't be possible, there wouldn't be so many engineers and entrepreneurs be jumping on the hyperloop train. Just let the scientists do their stuff and they will eventually figure it out. And even if it doesn't work out in the end, the scientists and engineers will probably have learned a lot of stuff during the process that they can use for other projects. I mean just look at NASA, they managed to get people to the freakin moon in the 1960s and during the research for that they learnt a lot of technologies that are used in car manufacturing nowadays. Thunderf00t is just behaving like some sad old man that thinks he knows everything better.
@oƃƃə The hyperloop was never planned to be in a complete vacuum
@oƃƃə
_"...using a vacuum tube to transport people. It's too dangerous and not cost effective."_ Very similar things have been said about traveling in airplanes above altitudes that allow normal breathing.
The same crack in both is equally deadly. But an airplane is far more fragile than how a hyperloop tube can be build.
You completely ignore perhaps the most important criticism : what happens when the tube develops a non-trivial puncture? Depending on exactly how low the pressure inside the tube is going to be (and it'll need to be pretty low if you want to go 700 mph without significant frictional heating), a failure of the vacuum integrity will result in a shock wave of air travelling in each direction away from the site of the breach. This shock wave will travel at or near the speed of sound. At least, it will until it hits the pod coming towards it. Unless the pod will possess unheard-of crash structures, the result of the impact will either be the pod smeared across the inside of the tube, or the passengers smeared across the inside of the pod.
And if anyone wants to claim that the tube will not or cannot fail so catastrophically, consider this : no-one has yet invented a long-distance oil pipeline that doesn't leak.
So it doesn't really matter where the first hyperloop gets built : no-one will insure it to carry passengers.
Would a system of doors every kilometre or so work? Plus a controller system that detects such a leak and rapidly slows any train that goes toward that leak miles in advance, maybe temporarily reducing the speed of that train to speeds that would work in regular air, while the blastdoors deal with any shockwaves, temporarily creating a slow section around the leak until it is fixed?
@@BartvG88 - That could perhaps work. But it will add even more to the initial cost of the system, as well as adding to maintenance costs (and lost time because the tube has to be shut down for maintenance).
Wishful thinking can break the laws of physics... refer to Thunderf00t :)
Just A Dream and it always will be Just A Dream...
Yeah, the criticism part of the video shows Simon is really in love with the idea. The technological, safety-related and financial hurdles here are enormous, maybe even insurmountable. It's definitely not just "an opposition to change".
Yeah when he says 0.5 g is a lot... Have you ever been in a strong car? Or on a fast train, even some trams accelerate like that... That an acceleration of 18kph/11mph a second. A modern tram goes at 50 kph and accelerates to speed at about 2,5 seconds. It would be longer. 25-30 worth of time to accelerate similar to deccelerate. Don't sounds bad or insane.
Whilst it’s a great concept, running between A and B I just don’t see it viable. The importance of fast travel is for people commuting in which case you’d need so many stops it wouldn’t get up to speed and would be slow anyway loading people on off.I
It's inherently unsafe. Just imagine what would happen if there was an accident followed by an explosive decompression.
Tell that to planes
Edit: replying to the op
@@danielbenson6407 well difference is if the tunnel is breached, 1000th of tonnes coming at you at the speed of sound. They need a sponge to clean your remains
Agreed. 30 second intervals at peak time doesn't leave much emergency stopping distance, assuming fail-safes are fully functional.
@@Katniss218 Is that something you've looked into or are you just parroting Thunderf00t's opinion?
Just a dream. The physics behind this are nutty, and the end result is pointless.
Quick tip, you don't spell the 'e' in Pune as in stone, you spell literally spell the 'e' without changing the inherent sound of 'u'. Thought might be helpful.
This concept has been well and truly proven to be unfeasable. Its a lovely thought, but the materials and engineering required are beyond our reach unfortunately. Maybe if we quit war and religion for a few centuries we may be able to cobble one of these together.. but ... Chances of that are slim.
"Proven"? Links please. And not to any of thunderf00t's 13 or so excruciatingly repetitive, misleading and inaccurate videos on this one subject (but might I suggest you check out his similar pontifications on how Falcon 9 re-usability would never work).
@@kirkc9643 Yes thoroughly disproved by thunderfoot, you cant ask for evidence with the caveat that it cant be from a source you disapprove of.
@@kirkc9643 Do you have any evidence for that? Can you give us an example? By the way do you have a 500 miles pipe where actually thousands of people are transported in near vacuum with 700 miles speed?
Can we get a Megaprojects video on Fusion Energy or a Space Elevator??
Aren't megaprject videos for things that have been made? I could be wrong as I have only seen a handful.
The fusion video is 30 years away
@@hellishgrin4604 ITER is scheduled for completion by 2025 and while an earth based space elevator is a ways off due to limitations in current materials it is within our technical capability to construct one on the moon or perhaps mars.
Ian Mastin So, my question still stands..?
@@hellishgrin4604 Fusion Energy has been done but it takes more energy to do than you get out the other end, so the real question should be how do we make it work
I wish I could sell a daring idea on the basis that accidents never happen. The faster the vehicle, and the narrower the air gaps, the bigger the challenges. If you are prepared to settle for Mach 0.4, the Bullet Train or the TGV will do.
The most important point that has not been addressed by any hyperloop supporters is how a structure that maintains a vacuum is going to accommodate thermal expansion of the containment vessel, when that vessel is a hundred kilometers in length. The fact that no one even mentions this problem, let alone works on it, is a sign they are dealing more in fantasy than reality.
No hyperloop people have addressed one of the biggest technical hurdles, thermal expansion. The SpaceX hyperloop white paper suggested a “solution” to thermal expansion could be a telescopic exit walkway, similar to the accordion bridge used to get on an airplane. Except it would have to be 100 yards long, LOL. The mechanical stresses of *hundreds of tons of steel expanding* (sliding along pylons presumably?) - that’s if they used rollers, which they still haven’t addressed at all.
Likely they would need expansion joints, which combined with a 1 ATM pressure gradient, you would need some crazy strong seals
Yes they will need expansion joints. The seals will not need to be "crazy strong" (seals of 20ATM and more are common enough) but the whole joint will be crazy expensive.
@Carl Klinkenborg Good point.
By the way Simon, you haven't told how we will create a vacuum within the tunnel, and how we can maintain it.
Plot spoiler : Lots of large and expensive pumps working flat-out 24/7
There are existing experimental trains that hovered over the track using air pressure such as the Aérotrain in 1965
I would compare it to the "vacuum train" (ak. vactrain/ vacuum tube train).
Patented around 1950. (Some concept as early as 1799?)
That's true but the crazy part is the speed they are talking about the G force the tolerance required from winter to summer the space to build the thing too.
How about we just build new motorways but instead of cars? they're for ekranoplans ;) now THAT would be fast.
"Ya, canna change the laws of physics..." It's a square/cube problem. The energy required to move an object through air increases as the SQUARE of the speed. The energy required to remove the air from a tube increases as the CUBE of the length. That cubing of the power overwhelms all the gains from having no resistance in a hurry. Back in 1870, Alfred Beach learned this the hard way when he tried it and the physics hasn't changed since then. It isn't viable to operate a long HyperLoop. The costs for the power required to remove the air (assuming you could even get that much power) make it a zero-sum-game. Add in safety issues (how to get help to people inside a pressurized can, inside a depressurized tube, inside an atmosphere if something goes wrong) and the HyperLoop is reduced to just a pipe-dream, literally.
Why not just use very-high-speed-trains like they have in China and Japan? Proven technology, that actually works, with excellent safety records and you can use their data to know exactly how much it costs to make and operate.
Errrrr are you deliberately misrepresenting the facts or was that an honest mistake? Moving an object through air requires that energy the whole time. Removing most (it will not be a vacuum) of the air from a sealed tube only needs to be done once. Obviously there will also be evacuation of air from operation of airlocks too but that is insignificant in comparison to your flawed analogy.
@@kirkc9643 I'm not. Alfred Beach already tried this technology and the square/cube problem ensured it would not scale. Do the math yourself. Figure how much power is required to depressurize the Hyperloop test track (I'll be nice and say it's about a kilometre long) Now the nearest major city to where I am is about 300km away so the power required (even if it's just one-time) is 300 x (how much they used for the test track) ^ 3. It's a ludicrously huge number. We would have to shut everything else in the region down for days. The engineering required to build a sealed depressurized tube hundreds of kilometres long with air locks at either end that can withstand the WEATHER (we get WEATHER here, not weather) is insanely expensive (some would argue that the materials required for such a construction don't even exist yet) and remember we want this train to be usable/affordable for everyone. The safety concerns are enormous too. And I repeat my question: Why not just use very-high-speed-trains? Ego? Pride? I've tried, in my own head, to solve some of the problems by using a system of rolling airlocks (like they use for boats) so only the section the train is in, and the one immediately in front of it, need be depressurized. Using connecting tubes and pumps we could use the power of the near vacuum of the section the train just passed through to help depressurize the section two ahead of the train. But that just makes the engineering and building of the thing beyond the stratosphere in expense which must be paid for in the ticket price of the riders putting the price of the ride beyond the reach of most. Final thought: It only costs me about $37 to drive my car to that nearest city (and back) OR I can take the bus for $200 OR I can fly for about $500. The flight time is 53 minutes and I estimate the train time at 36 minutes so how much am I going to pay to save 17 minutes?
@@michaelfox1432 You don't know what you're talking about
Another brilliant video. Hooked on these and Geographics.
You mentioned doing a video on the Titanic in a previous video, I definitely vote 👍 for that.
Keep up the amazing work all. 🤙
I thank you and your team for making these videos!
Your sounding of "Pune" made me laugh
He missed the opportunity to have the title say "Hyperloop: the future of transport, or just a pipe dream." The fact that this pun was not made is a sin
“It’s fair to say that Elon Musk has made a name for itself” Simon recognizing the alien for what it really is lol 👽
I first saw a proposal for a M3 tube train in my fluids class. I think it was referred to here as the NYC to LA. It was presented to the class by the instructor. It felt like some work had been done even if only the theory and some drawings. Hope they have better luck this time. That was back in 1974 at RPI.
Topic Suggestion: The great snowy mountain scheme in Australia 🇦🇺 which the Federal Govt. is currently looking to expand. Thanks Simon and lovin the format of this show.
It’s like this video has forgotten the existence of Concorde and the ISS.
Much worse. Both of those worked, Hyperloop will ever work as a commercial technology.
I’ve seen enough back to the future to know that we’ve been living in the future since 2015
The US department of defense budget for 2019 was 686 billion dollars. Imagine what amazing things they could do if they spent just a quarter of that on infrastructure projects like these. Besides the facet that taxation levels are way too high and should be drastically reduced.
Yeah, ISRO sent a satellite on mars with a budget less than that of the film "Martian". Imagine if they had the budget of NASA.
Imagine that if everyone actually took their and their families welfare into their own hands..
wasted money. Just like the 5millions on solard roadways , plastic roadways etc etc ... all thoses "hype project" with no substance and no viability due to fundamental flaws
Megaproject idea : le Grand Paris Express. The new Paris underground public transport that will (it's not completed but the service will start before completion, this year) become the world's longuest fully automated metro with over 200km of tracks. Really interesting from an economic and ingeneering prospect.
Or maybe the Line 1 that became fully automated.... without interuption of service! A line that was first opened in 1900 and transported 1/2 million passengers per day BEFORE the upgrade to full auto! That was at the time (to my knowledge) a world first.
Great video as usual. I'm hopping to the Geographics channel now! 👍🏽
The USA is unable to have a decent rail transportation system for people, unlike China, Europe, Japan...and wants to build a sci-fi hyperloop transportation system in their country, underground, in California where seismic activity is one of the most intense in the World.
And I'm putting aside all technical difficulties, or the cost to do so, to maintain a vaccum depression in a thousands of miles lenght tube, and the cost to build such a structure...and all safety problem (What happen if the hyperloop stops in a sealed tube in the middle of nowhere underground, under hundreds foot of rocks ? how to evacuate people ? )
Hyperloop is such a waste of money, which could be use for more feasable and realistic things....