Gotta be honest, people in the US really love the image of asian culture but they don't have a clue of what the real culture and their history. Back in mexico, I had a girlfriend from japan and her parents and her used to talk about the pressure and stress that their society puts on everyone. Like working until you literally died, the suicides, or the overwhelming expectation that some parents put on their kids.
Yeah, it is and but that is the reality that no one wants to talk about. Their culture has its ups and downs and its not all what the TV shows you, ya know
Im so tired of hearing this argument. Americans have a culture, but if you’ve lived America your whole life it’s hard to tell what that culture is since you’re so used to it.
@@sinuedavidsilvaescutia4817 I disagree with this take. This is some of the concepts that people who are interested in Japan talk about. There’s a bad trend where people over estimate how uncommon their takes are. You said “ nobody” talks about these things. Those are EXTREMELY common among the Japanophile/Otaku community.
This might sound wierd but when you talked about pleasures of fetishization, I was thinking the reason why some want to be fetishized is because we all crave acceptance. As ethnic people, we wish people would crave our features and see us as beautiful because we grew up pedestalizing white culture and features. As a south Asian, I know other desi girls kinda enjoy it when others see us as exotic and beautiful because it’s better than being seen as nerdy or ugly which are also our stereotypes. It’s also interesting to hear about those fighting against other fetishes and creating their own categories like Asian BBW in your example. It just goes to show that people are attracted to ALL types of looks and there really is a plethora of looks appealing to the general population.
I agree with this as an indian guy ive sometimes wished that indian culture and looks would be fetishised just so we arent the laughing stock of the world
I’m Ivorian American and tbh I relate to this because at least I’m viewed as desirable that way. I don’t like to admit that, but seeing your comment made me realize it. As problematic as it is to be fetishized, it feels better than being viewed as ugly, undesirable, or the bottom of the barrel.
@@rickyli0n568 they dont really go hand in hand sadly. lmao look at arabs were fetishized and still looked down upon. all were known for is extremism and wars (that were started by the west lmao but thats a diff topic) while still being sexualized for simply existing. (ex: hijabi p***, theyre sexualized for wanting to be modest. ik muslim doest equal arab but it does in the westerners eyes so it still counts)
I am Indonesian, I live in America, have my whole life. I am in high school and all this recent fetishization thing has been really weird kids will ask if I'm Japanese or Korean and when I tell them I'm not they seem to be disappointed, like they only care about me if I was one of the "cool asians"
Yo I’m Indonesian American too I grew up in Cali 👋I wish more Indos came to live in America as we are a very small Asian minority. I also wish we were more globally famous like Korea and Japan. I’m jealous of these other Asians 😂 I mostly heard people tell me they never see a brown Asian. They say hold up you look Chinese but also Spanish boy😂
@@sasukeshinobi8537 Nope. I don't consider myself an Asian at all. That's like saying that Syrians, Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians and Lebanese are Europeans.
@@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072 the only difference is that Indonesia is literally in Asia..... The middle eastern country don't acclaim to be European because the middle east like Indonesia is also part of Asia.
@@didiqqz Indonesia isn't a part of Asia much like how Middle East isn't a part of Europe. Europe is separated by Ural and Volga, while Sundaland is separated by Annam, Yunnan-Guizhou and Mekong.
I noticed this trend(?) of defining our culture with physical traits. It puts mixed raced people like me in a tough place. I see mixed people getting yelled at for cultural appropration on Tik Tok to the point of needing to do a "parents reveal" to prove their identity. Not to mention people in the West and East Asia making themselves up to look more and more "mixed." A lot of us suffer rejection from our cultures because we don't look like them, but now they also want to look like us? It's become quite absurd.
I think its due to the fact that non native americans lost their cultural heritage and because of slavery, identified each other based on ,,race,, (even if its is a completly made up concept)
As just your average black person, I've observed something from the sidelines. It seems like at first society was obsessed with the mixed "look" of blacks + whites (blites). Now, society seems obsessed with the mixed "look" of blacks + asians (blasians). I guess mixed ppl will forever be fetishized until mixed becomes the norm
exactly. i'm half asian and live in hk and my whole entire life i had never fit in. i hardly can speak canto or mandarin which sucks because I want to be better at it. But I feel more western compared to asian and always degraded myself for being asian when I was younger because I thought it wasn't good. But now I'm more confident in the rise of more asian popularity. I know, it isn't a good thing. But now I can relate more to my culture a bit more.
I 100% agree! Also the parents reveal thing is the worst. Personally I’m mixed Caribbean and Asian on my moms side and German and Canadian on my dads, and growing up i mostly celebrated Caribbean culture because that’s where my family is and obviously lived as a Canadian. So naturally I got picked on by white kids for like big hair, my eye shape, arm hair etc , but at the same time, I didn’t look or feel “Caribbean” enough to really understand the reason for my differences. As a kid this had a big effect and caused me to struggle a lot with having a sense of identity because the only people who didn’t just see me as a funny-looking-probably-white person, were other mixed people or my family. And then for the beauty standards and media that caused all these issues, to turn around and make it like a trend and fetishize mixed people but also gatekeep not conventionally attractive mixed people out of their own identities with things like the parents reveal is disgusting. And so many of them have this specific image in mind of what someone who is mixed should look like, so people who have more complicated backgrounds are still shunned, and BIPOC’s who have less white heritage are also still left out. Also a lot of white people who didn’t know the difference thought it was okay for them to make videos like “I’m 5% black” or something or to talk like that, which only makes it harder for people in the middle to open up about their family because they don’t want to seem like one of those people. Also I want to acknowledge that obviously, depending on how mixed you are and what mix etc, there is the whole question about white privilege, I personally benefit from white privilege and I am not making this to try to undermine the struggles of people who are in danger because of their ethnicity, bc obviously that’s worse. I am just saying this whole being mixed trend is very dehumanizing towards mixed people and the crossfire can be quite harmful.
@@Aritheberry i understand from your point of view. I, I guess are considered to look more white than asian. With my brown hair, big brown eyes and tannish white skin. Western people see me more as an "exotic mix" and asians just see me as mixed. Locals speak to me in cantonese whenever I walk into a shop but of course, I don't know how to communicate with them so I'm put on the spot. I feel so guilty for not engaging in my Chinese side even though I'm surrounded by asian culture in the East.
I wanted to comment on the aegyo thing when you said it's a cultural thing, in the Middle-east it's the opposite, the more cold and mature the woman is; the more she's attractive because she's seen as responsible, and if she acts like a little girl it's a turn off. It's interesting how different it is in other cultures.
I really like this concept tbh. I feel like the girly aesthetic has been pushed so much by the media that we forget that even women's voices get deeper during puberty. Being an adult also means that you must be skilled and responsible (especially if you plan on becoming a parent) rather than submissive and helpless. Although I must admit I've seen a few brown men (not only middle eastern but those all the way to Pakistan/India/Bangladesh) that seem to hit on young girls A LOT. In the Mediterranean-Arabic (Turkey, Palestine, Lebanon) countries such a trend is almost non existent but when we move towards the east it becomes a bigger problem...
I think this could be because the type of women who demonstrate this trait survive and those who don't will not in that kind of environment historically speaking.
@@fangzification no its bc being the opposite of aegyo-y in the middle east as a woman is seen as being prideful, valuable and not easy. which is desired in middle eastern countries bc the ideal for women is to be "untouched" .
As middle eastern myself I also like to criticize this concept a bit, most young girls in the middle eastern countries are forced to grow up faster than the boys and take responsibility for house chores, their families and are basically held up as being representatives of the family's pride and honor, which is so unfair and so dangerous the girl would be crucified for exhibiting slight traits of incompetence or immaturity, deeming her as useless
can we also just talk about the division between south/south east asian people and east asia? the fact that south asian people are completely excluded from mainstream media and aren't included in other mainstream trends like the recent douyin trends. and also about how south east asian girls on most commonly on platforms like tiktok usually only get praised based off of their looks because they look more east asian? i really agree with your point that the east asian look isn't the standard look. this may be controversial but in my opinion, like by saying that having eyeliner that elongates or largens your eyes is asian fishing puts asian people in a box, it connotes that asian people just have one look. it's what you do wearing the makeup that becomes a problem, like acting cute n shit, that's when it starts to get grey. this is all just part of my opinion as a south east asian person raised in the west, and how i've interpreted everything that's been going on about the mainstream asian culture boom
I feel like a lot of that east-asian specific fetishization too could linked to ideas of white supremacy perpetuated through colonialism and more recently through western media. I know a lot of people try to play it off as the "well it's from the old days if you worked the fields and were poor you were dark" but i feel like thats a cop out for the influence of white supremacy from the west
Exactly. I'm a Filipino and it pisses me off how the majority of mainstream media in the Philippines is hyperfocused on Korean media and culture. K-pop has been huge here for decades, but the cultural takeover and fetishization has just been ABSOLUTELY INSANE since the 2015s. I hate it and I just see it accelerating for generations to come. And this is coming from me who has a Korean girlfriend and grew up closely with Korean friends.
as a kpop fan, i see it everywhere. people wanting a korean/asian bf/gf, people using korean words in random sentences (i die inside every time someone does it) and as an asian girl, i experience fetishization bc people are like “ohhh youd be a cute little asian gf” LIKE WGAT
@@fuu6ko665 that she should be grateful that she is getting praised just because of her race, its much better than being ridiculed for being a certain race.
@@emiz99Nah being judged for your race either in a positive or negative way is bad because it's just that, a judgement based on the way you look/were born or whatever
I was absent the first day of high school but the teacher said my name, the male students were “excited” to have an “Asian” class mate however I am half Mexican and so I look mostly like my mom, the only thing that reminds people of me being Asian IS my name. So when I got there and looked like everybody else well… they were extremely disappointed, and I found myself speaking Chinese to them and “performing” my Asian side for them. Treating myself as a show. I hate that I felt the need to do that, when you were talking about how women have to perform for their partners AND coworkers???? I felt sick to my stomach bro
Well tbf ever since Trump ran in office south Latin countries have had a very bad image magnified. Tried to blame immigrants as the root of the countries problems when thanks to covid it's because of these immigrants working hard on these fields that people can live with food on their tables and give the hard labor jobs to the poor. Then the big boom of the caravan from south countries migrating to the US didt make rhnsh better RIP. As a Hispanic I really wish Mexico or any Latin country wasnt painted as dirty, bad and poor because theres more to it. Mafia doesnt speak for the people (mayhaps the country 😅) and neither does poverty speak for the culture because it really is beautiful culture beautiful lands and wonderful foods.
@@SemekiIzuio I find it ironic how Mexico was resentful on Trumps anti immigration problems because Mexico themselves has a very strong anti-government attitude, especially agaisnt central american and african refugees
So do you live in Mexico? I agree that mexican students will be very amazed if you aren't Mexican, seeing how we do not have a big influx of immigrants of outside culture other than American, when I was in secondary school we got an american girl from indiana, and she stood up like a sore thumb, but it gets to the point of giving too much attention of having those kind of people around that it turns into an awful obsession, my sincere apologies of having to experience that.
Im half Mexican and European and I felt the same way with my Mexican side when I was younger , I always felt the need to “prove” that I was Mexican as a child and it honestly makes me rlly sad bc now that I’m older I realize how much I was hurting myself by doing this
I'm black but like damn, it feels bad to be just a trend. I began wearing my natural hair because I saw how it was venerated in the media, now I feel my hair is frizzy and unmanageable because it's just not trendy anymore. trends just leave the people who've experienced it feel like cheap entertainment for a while, then it goes back to "I don't want to play with you anymore". it felt kinda nice for a while, being black, but now you just figure you're unwanted in society after a trend passes and the general societal consensus is "we don't want you anymore". I don't know, I kind of felt it in the way people talk about travel and stuff. Places in Africa are all just a charity appeal, unless you are lighter skinned or beautiful or something like that. it's just like "Wow, the women are soooo beautiful in *Country X*". The countries that typically don't have black features. It's always loose hair or small noses. But I like myself and I'm proud to be African, I will continue to love representing my country regardless of whether I'm "the in thing" or not. I can't let my experience of life be constantly dictated by Western trends of appeal, who gives a damn. One last quote, if you give people the power to bring you up, you also give them the power to pull you down. Trust in God, stay good, bye!
I don’t have as tight curls as black people tend to have but I certainly feel that. I was constantly told by white women that they loved my hair and it led me to grow it out but as it fell out I got less and less compliments and felt that it was more and more inconvenient. Now I’ve come to appreciate my hair and I wanna say you should love your curls because they’re a part of the cultures we have. There are hairstyles and hair are for it that I feel help me tap into my individuality instead of just another brown person in the eyes of Americans. Sorry if I don’t make sense throughout😅
thank you so much for this. people don't understand this and i relate to what you've said. It's nice to hear someone outside of my family talk about it.
I really appreciate your take on this as a fellow African. A lot of black women hate their natural hair because of colonialist mentalities, but joined the natural hair "movement" as a trend. After a the craze died down, they're back to hating their hair and calling it "unmanageable" or "nappy". Let's not even get started on the wig craze (kinda funny how the wigs they love are always Caucasian hair and never kinky hair). All this is only hurting the black community, as it leaves us hating our hair and buying the Western view of it. I love my hair and I'm grateful that more women are getting to love it too. I just really wish that all the Western influences die out and people of all races can be who they truly are, not some b-grade white wannabes
@@abigailokoiobuli8945 I agree, genetic diversity is what lead to better odds of survival and is a part of life. We should chase one way of life because that easier to wipe out. In the same way we should choose one standard because realistically that’s just not feasible even if the sandard wasn’t unhealthy
"Many white passing wasians feel less Asian than Asian passing wasians, even if their connection to their Asian roots are the same." This was just a small line in a much larger point but it meant a lot to hear, thank you
Also non white passing wasians feel less asian too. When I was a kid everyone made jokes that I was actually indigenous. When I was 8 a lady stopped me in the street and asked me “ you know what disney princess you look like? “ and I sai “Mulan”. She replied “ No its pocahontas!” That made me so sad. Also in my japanese school everyone would have that very white skin and my dad is a more yellow/ orange tone( that ressembles indigenous) so I stood out and felt different, my mom beeing white didnt gave me a color , just made my eyes look less like my fathers, just more racially ambiguous Edit: I went to doctor today and she said “ I barely have an indigenous client! “ 🥲 Edit2: guys read stuart hall’s book on identity crisis, its guuuud👍 hes an immigrant philosopher and talks about cultural identity translation between nations
I met a japanese man once who lives in the periphery of japan and he told me that there is kind of a "tokyo kioto bubble" that is the stereotypical representation of japan while most of the people are just living in an ordinary towns.
After visiting Hokkaido, I can 100% confirm. Tokyo and Kioto definitely put a lot of emphasis on creating the "perceived culture" the West thinks of Japan having. Not everywhere, but anywhere tour guides will take you and the surrounding areas are all built for the westerners, not the locals. If you leave the main cities, study up on your Japanese because they don't (nor should they have to) hold your hand out there. (This is from over a decade ago, though so things might have changed)
@@XxStrawberryxJellyxX It's no just for the external image. You'll find enough cultural centers in Western contries as well which firmly believe they represent their whole nation and the rest are basically hillbillies.
@@Alias_Anybodylabeling the rest of America as hillbillies just adds to the ignorance as if America is just ‘city mouse vs country mouse’. America has a variety of geography, ethnic groups, societal expectations etc. Even values differ from county to county and state to state. It’s not the Wild West vs the big apple 🤦♀️
@@Alias_Anybody you’re right. I misread your comment. But I don’t think that those cultural centers believe they represent the whole nation. Any resident living in that country knows that. It a stereotype that is internalize by tourists and foreigners but not the locals
As popular as BTS, blackpink, and other kpop groups have gotten in the modern western countries, I think a lot of people forget how influental PSY was to crossing the barrier between western and eastern pop culture. Aside from anime(which keep in mind wasn't exactly a cool thing to be a fan of in 2012), Gangnam stye, as much of a meme as it became, was most peoples first introduction to modern east asian media.
I agree Psy definitely deserves credit for introducing Korean media to the West, as well as introducing East Asian pop music... but not East Asian media in general. Even before the anime boom (e.g. Pokemon, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, etc.), Hong Kong action cinema had produced international stars like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, John Woo, Jet Li, Zhang Ziyi, Michelle Yeoh, Sammo Hung, and Chow Yun Fat. There were also Japanese video games (though most people didn't know they were Japanese until the anime boom). What Psy achieved was two-fold: 1. Bringing over K-pop to the West. By doing so, this opened the floodgates to Korean media in general. Westerners became interested in other K-pop acts as well as Korean movies and shows. 2. Bringing East Asian pop music to the West. Previously, Westerners were only familiar with Japanese soundtrack music, through anime and video games, while J-pop and K-pop were unknown in the West. But with Psy, he brought K-pop over to the West, exposing most Westerners to East Asian pop music for the first time.
I think every good and bad thing about this related to the internet growth, theres already proto weebs back in the 80s japanese idol golden era but mostly are in moderation
@@dewaeryadi7776 Honestly so your right about this but it’s a little irrelevant to your topic- but anime popularity in the west definitely stems off when the pandemic and everybody was inside their homes. And honestly there’s nothing more binge able then anime. It’s what I believe really introduced it because before that I couldn’t find much people who knew what it was or knew what was before covid.
As an Asian woman living in Asia, I have many thoughts on this. Not all Asian women are the same of course, so my opinion is just my own. Aegyo/kawaii/sajiao is not inherently about women. Eastern culture has always balanced femininity and masculinity in all people. Men need to act cute as well, be it to their partners, or if they are a server at work, when apologizing, when talking to children, etc. tough to the strong and gentle to the weak. It’s cultural significance is rooted in knowing when to be soft and knowing when to be hard, ie. Yin and Yang. Many Chinese families are also matriarchies, where the whole family revolves around the mother, so women, like men, also need to know when to be hard and when to be soft. It’s not as black and white as it is in America. Many women like “feminine” boys here, but we don’t consider them “feminine”, as this is an inherently negative term in English. It isn’t negative in Asia for a man to have balance and security of their softness. Ancient times, a man is to provide, write poetry, do art, music and martial arts. A mixture of soft and hard. There’s many layers to what defines a man in asia. Also, I’ve noticed (maybe I am wrong) but a lot of Asian American girls seem to overly sexualize themselves for white validation. It almost feels like they are aware that they are exotic, so in order to get attention, they will exaggerate their eyeliners to be very “asiany” and dress very revealing to allure attention. This is often used under the guise of “western liberation and freedom” however I find it somewhat more oppressive if I am to be honest. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Great video
That western conception of femininity/masculinity towards Asian ppl kind of lead to homophobia and xenophobia too, I guess. I often hear ppl calling Asian men "f*ggot" or saying that "you can't even know who is women and who is men". And this coming from the country with the largest Asian population outside of Asia. It's like we learned nothing.
I’m Thai but lived in the US most of my life. Being Thai comes with having an ungodly difficult to pronounce last names and more letters than needed. I used to hate my last name until I realized I’m one of the only people in the world with that last name. Be proud of your heritage because no matter how much you’re made fun of or bullied, they can’t take what makes you… you, away…
This makes me remember a story : When I was in high-school, the BTS train was full, everyone (especially girls) were full on hyped (I have asian features because my ancestors are from Vietnam) and I used to be called racial slurs when I was young but because of it, the trend, anything you want to call it, I was now found appealling, I hated it because people didn't liked me because of who I was but because of tokens like "I have an asian friend" like bruh can't you just have a friend ? Another story is that, there was that guy who's parents where filipino but he pretended to be korrean at school and once his girlfriend found out he wasn't korean she broke up with him like wtf
I'm an east asian (Chinese-Malay) who lives in Germany and I think a lot about self-fetishization, but I haven't have a word for that. In the last year where korean media became more popular I realize I wanted to look like most of the men you see in korean media. I cut my hair like k-drama characters and I also dress like one as well. And honest it gives me confidence, because I get a lot of compliments for my looks but also I have the feeling kinda reinforce that I dress like a "media version" of a korean person (And it also doesn't help that I'm not korean). But on the otherside it kinda helped me to accept myself, because I used to hate myself being east-asian. But on the otherside I also always question myself if Korean Popculture isn't that popular here in the west, would I really dress myself like a K-Drama character? Anyway great video! It really helps me to sort my thought and feelings about this topic!
@@wiredvibe1678 I mean yeah it can be because it looks good. But sometimes things in life aren‘t just simple and it is more complex. I like to be more critical of my actions and think about what consequences my actions will have on other people (like why I like to dress myself like that? Is there a deeper meaning just looking good) and that‘s why I ask myself these questions and I‘m sure a lot of people are like me and think more critical of our actions
I guess this is an issue for the east Asian diaspora. A Japanese living in japan would obviously take inspirations from Japanese well-dressed celebs. Same for Koreans etc. There is no self fetishization going on there.
I showed my mom this video, she’s Filipino and she just looks at me and asks why these people are so miserable that they want to act like a different race and I fuckin spat out my water from the sheer facts she was spittin
self fetishization of east asian countries was something i was aware of but tbh i think every country/race/etc gets fetishized by at least one other culture/country/etc, and i dont think it will ever stop. From the elegant french girls and their accents with views to tower eiffel while eating baggettes in a caffe, to the cute and proper british boys who are always nice and have a funny accent (popular during the 1D era), the fetishization of black skin and aave by celebreties in america, the sexualization of brazilian women who have strong tan lines and no body hair at all while dancing samba on a beach. There are thousands of examples, it's everywhere really.
yes but are whites benefit from said stereotypes unlike minorities. black people at least dont have white people be racist to tjeir face unlike east and southeast asians
In Japan in particular, white girls were (and still are to some extent) fetishized, at least in the medias and in animes. I don't see the issue tbh, Americans like to invent problems with societal themes.
As a mexican, yes. Sadly I have witness how some americans see latin woman as sexually "exotic" with "tropical" waists. The worst of all is that they tend to target younger woman to the point of looking after teens. Having a darker skin doesn't make us "exotic', Kal.
The "cool thing" about brazilian fetishization is that it don't differs from East Asian self-fetishization. The Brazilian ministry of tourism are the ones guilty of this perception of us, brazilian women, as some kind of exotic thicc native. That obviously came from European colonization, when native women were interpreted as "sexually free" bc they walked around with no clothes. This idea got really fixed on our culture, to an extent that the ministry of tourism promoted the "sexual tourism" and the image of the "brown beauty big-booty and no body hair" women as some kind of motivation to outside men with the dirty colonialist mentality to came to Brazil and save the poor and innocent natives.
As an enjoyer of kpop, I totally agree with the dangers of learning about a country’s culture based purely on highly-controlled, perfected media. It’s important to take everything you see on the internet with a pinch of salt and remind yourself of the motive behind the content.
yes id recommend everybody really interested in a culture to study the language and live there for a while. then you take it in with all the negatives and realise what you had so far was just a superficial vision distilled through a pop cultural lens. i enjoy exports east asia just because some of them are a breath of fresh air in a pretty homogeneous western space (thanks to us imperialism lol). but it is really funny how east asia becomes a disneyland for millennials and zoomers. wonder how long it will take before globalism and the internet will turn all this into another homogeneous mass like we have in the western world and what role china will play in all that.
@@lostintechnology1851 Yes, if you enjoy anime, Kpop, general Tsos, whatever, don't worry about it. Consume it any way you like and don't let these overeducated ding-a-lings get to you with their Marxist yappings about "colonialism", and "fetishization". Its a lot of garbage not worth your time. You aren't the problem, your culture isn't the problem, the West isn't the problem, even Eastern cultures aren't the problem. Its the personalities of these malcontents that are the problem. They're not emotionally healthy. They're mostly Asians who're unhappy because they don't get to do what they want in life. They studied the social sciences, so now they're brainwashed by the far left. Shakespeare's 'Julius Caesar' contains the line, "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings" Wise words worth remembering.
The fucking irony in that comment is so fucking hilarious. Everyone literally gets the impression of American Culture from highly controlled, perfected media and shit youtube channels.
The term “pick me girl” is also misused a lot. Any asian person in western countries doing aeygo/sajiao or being kawaii would be accused of being a “pick me”. The definition of a “Pick me girl” refers to a girl who acts/says misogynistic things to get male validation. Acting “cute” isn’t just being done to males, it could be a girl to a girl, girl to their parents, moms to their daughters or sliblings to silblings. People act cute for different reasons, whether to get something from them or simply to be cute.
I often question how a term used to describe a misogynistic woman has been turned into a misogynistic phase. We are really out here doing everything to degrade woman.
I’m currently working on my senior project at a 4-year university, and I’ve opted to research western culture’s impact on eastern traditions. This video has been incredibly insightful and beneficial. Thank you very much!
@@lukeschwartz4396 I’m 97% done but man I’ve come to have such a huge appreciation for Asian (non-American) culture. I have a much higher level of respect knowing the hardships fought by the Asian community trying to carve out their own place in America and have a better understanding as to why the conduct themselves the way they do. I’m so gald I did this
In a similar note, a good amount of black men in the US tend to fetishize themselves also because nonblack women see them as hypermasculine protectors who are 'gifted' in some areas. They feel rewarded by these stereotypes in their relationships until those same stereotypes lead to racial prejudice in their lives.
Btw this is also in part why I think black men are less likely to defend black women as well, their internalized racism teaches them that, since being black is "inherently masculine", black women must be less feminine than other women or as they say too 'loud' and 'ghetto' and 'aggressive' (I also think this is why black women and asian men used to be found as least desirable by some dating studies, because internalized racist stereotypes thought asian men were too "soft" for women and black women were too "aggressive" for men)
I think I read some black dude claiming jesus was black and we originated from the south therefore we were black first lmao. I will not deny our origins was from the south perhaps and that people migrated and changed through the environment but to say jesus was black is another thing. If it's true we originated from the south then there was no skin color but one for everyone there was no other to label or differentiate. Anyways they got a little more crazy when they said thats why their dick was bigger. So nah what an incel. Black men and women come in all size thin or thick tall or short just like and other culture
You're spot on. I see people embracing the stereotypes that make them feel good in certain contexts. But this very reason is why people often behave defensively against African-descended people. White people who only know blacks from NBA and NFL and hiphop videos can't help but see them as hypermasculine "others" to hide his kids and wife from. Dangerous game.
You know, that's exactly the issue with "latino" identity. I find it bewildering that people seem to think I, a Guatemalan, have anything in common with a Colombian, or a Puerto Rican, or an Argentine or even a Costa Rican. Like, sure, we speak Spanish, but it's not really a common identity, since our cultures and ethnicities are just so varied. I've found this specially bad in second or third generation "Latino in North America" families, which I find quite interesting.
i have similar issues as a south asian with the “aapi” identity, while there is a time and place to address asian-americans, its important to understand that we are not the same race, our features are phenotypically different therefore we get treated differently. For example, as they were saying in the video of how eastern asian women and girls are fetishized for being “cute and innocent” it has been the exact opposite for me as a south asian girl, constantly have been seen as more masculine, hairy, over-sexualized, and if i step out of line, im “aggressive”. Yes we are from the same continent but we have separate experiences and separate cultures
We used to have words that more accurately represented the differences between people in Latin America, it was the caste system and it was the most racist institution ever created. I agree the word "latino" doesn't mean anything but we used to obsess so much about these differences and invoked so much tribalism in the name of them that I just think it's better to forget about it and accept a word that doesn't mean anything.
For real where I live (Canada) everyone thinks we all have the same culture (they even have the audacity to compare Spaniards with other latinos) not just Canadians do these but immigrants from other countries do it too. I’ve met people who were obsessed with Cuban culture and for some reason they expected me (Salvadoran) to act “Cuban”, we don’t even have the same culture at all. The language is the only similar thing (not even that because most of the times I don’t understand Cubans and viceversa, they use too many unique words). Tbh other countries in Latin America even have different words, whenever I speak Spanish with someone from another country we constantly have to ask what do the words mean. But ignorance is found everywhere in the globe I suppose. Latinos call everyone “chinito” so it goes both ways.
That's the same with the term "middle eastern". Iranians, Turks and Arabs speak very different languages, they don't even belong to the same language families. They come from completely different historical backgrounds and the cultures, the politics, the economy is completely different. Yet in the west they're like, yea you all look the same. Let's not even talk about how different Arab countries are!! They stretch from the Atlantic ocean to the Indian ocean with completely different cultures, politics and economies. It's ridiculous to assume that "Arab countries" are this one thing.
Its funny how the east asians feel conected by their looks, and here in Brazil there is no one that "looks brazilian" but we are pretty good at knowing where people are from because of their accents
i think this can apply to any country and their culture because, while i agree that brazillians look drastically different from each other, as an american-brazilian ive had a lot of native brazilians tell me that i don't "look" or "act" brazilian enough so i also have this self-identity crisis and feel better about myself when i talk and dress more like brazilians do :/
@@Sarah.lux. Im curious!! Did you feel the identity-crisis thing or the need to “prove” your “brazilianness” that op was talking about even though you were born there?
as a native, having to "prove your brazilianness" is such a foreign concept to me, i never even considered it before, and i don't personally think u should have to change yourself for anyone, but i'll stress it again: my opinion.
This fascinates me as a black woman. Because even though we’re also fetishized, it’s in a different way. Almost a dirty way. It’s like they fetishized our pain rather than our actual culture. Like the white lady who joined the NAACP in black face. People usually fetishize black women, or want to be one, when they’re going for a domineering, ultra sexual presentation. But they completely miss the slender body type a lot of black women have that was popular in ancient Egypt. It’s odd how some people associate all East Asian women with being cute and child-like, yet all black women (and maybe other dark skinned women) as a strong, maybe even hostile, ultra-adult sex symbol. Even young black kids, especially our girls, go through adultification from day one. It’s why people usually are prone to anger or abuse with dark skinned children…sometimes worse.
lol no cope, black people say either people hate and dont like them or they want to be just like blacks choose one both cant be true at the same time and ancient egypt was never a black country it was multicultural and had basically all of the old world living in it and its funny how you pick and choose what country you want to represent you like why didnt you say Liberian body types or south african
It’s a different kind of fetishization but unfortunately this always leads to racism and violence. Asian women are seen as submissive, child-like and are murdered, Black women are seen as masculine, “tainted,” and are murdered.
@YOYO-xy3yg Two things can definitely be true at once, I don't know who told you otherwise. But black women are subject to adultification and hyper-sexualization, both historically and statistically so. I believe OP is referring to the dichotomous relationship between the masculinization of black women and simultaneous tendency to praise the traits that society deems "acceptable". Just like how black men are simultaneously lauded for their ability to be talented and strong (particularly with sports and music), yet demonized for their "aggressive and violent nature". Just like how Asian people are simultaneously "smart, independent , and well-mannered", yet also dehumanized and deemed "child-like" and "submissive" in nature. Also, P.S. it doesn't matter that Egypt is multicultural lmao. Africa is a big ass continent with many multicultural regions, so the point OP made remains unchanged.
I'm Vietnamese and Chinese and back then Asian guys were seen as undesirable towards girls even some Asian girls too. They made fun of my baby face features and how I look like a kid. Now today people would call me cute and tell me i look like Luhan. and it went from "you look good for an asian" to "I like you because you're asian". It's a shame but please like us for the culture as well. I hate that myself has experienced fetishzation even for a guy. But anyways please like us for the culture too. 🙏
The baby face comments never stop though tbh. The other day someone told me I have the body of a 25 year old(cuz I’m 6’4”) and the face of a 5 year old 🥲
My friend, even when people like you for your culture, there will always be toxic people that will claim liking your culture is fetishizing your culture. You can't escape people blaming others just because they are jealous/miserable. If a girl wants to get to know you better, treats you nice and with respect and is interested in your personally, then you wouldn't need anything else. Search for someone like that. Best of luck
As a Japanese man living in Japan, this video helped me a lot to see what is called ''Japanese culture'' in a different perspective. I've been having difficulties to find elements making me feel ''I'm Japanese''. At least I think it's cool that Japanese anime, food, and ''traditional culture'' have spread all over the world and they are being enjoyed by many people, but not in those things do I find something important shaping me as a Japanese person at its core. Maybe it's just I'm ignorant, but I somewhat understand the reason behind my detachment from ''Japanese culture'' knowing it's been basicallly produced with intentions to be consumed. I like that you deconstruct pop culture from academic perspectives!!
I am not speaking for myself, but a lot of people living in Western culture believe that they have no culture. Sometimes it is not obvious when you stay in the same place all of the time, with the same people all of the time. Have you travelled outside of Japan? When I spend a long time with my southeast Asian family, I am reminded that my American culture encompasses lots things that I take for granted, like air conditioning, or comfy sofas even.
agreed with other poster! as the opposite perspective, as an American who has consumed a good bit of anime and manga and visited Japan - the food and "traditional culture" were novel and pleasant, for sure, but there are SO MANY things that differ and can be taken for granted. it felt quite bizarre experiencing how formal/polite basic interactions are, even knowing what that "looked like" from media, but I have to imagine it's even stranger growing up with that and then experiencing its absence.
"the reason behind my detachment from 'Japanese culture' knowing it's been basically produced with intentions to be consumed" DAMNN, u spittin. this is so enlightening and kind of disheartening. impeccable english btw omg
Maybe you struggle because in the end we're all people inside, when stripped off of our traditional clothings and cuisines. I don't feel like initially kimonos or udon were created just to be consumed by western culture. Imagine, people from overseas suddenly lose all interest in Japan - will it stop people in Japan from drawing manga, holding summer festivals in shrines or being polite to each other?..
Capitalism, the culture of putting all your focus on work and then barely time for anything else strips individuals of culture. Because even in non western countries we copy their way of life (like everyone wearing jeans and similar clothes instead of traditional so we become detached to our own culture. In order to feel it you need to partake but if the only thing you're partaking in is consumerism ofc you will feel lack of culture. Consumerism and capitalism isn't culture. A lot of countries are becoming westernized and the influence of western media and it's consumption is not helping.
As a black guy I can fully sympathise with this sentiment. This is all too similar to how black culture was fetishised back in the 90s and 00s and whilst there’s nothing wrong with taking part in it and enjoying it there’s just a moral line that people shouldn’t cross. People like to glorify things like gang violence, drug dealing and drill but don’t realise that these things stem from things that are wrong within black culture. And it’s funny how we did it to ourselves and still do which ropes many other people into doing the same but only then do we as a community have a problem with it. Don’t get me started on things such as dreadlocs and cornrows. It seems it’s an issue that will always be around in society as long as there are lines to be crossed and East Asian culture is “having their turn” so to speak.
I also find that features (especially on darker skinned people) like big lips, curvier bodies, and bigger eyebrows were considered ugly or manly until lighter skinned (or in this case simply white people) made it a fashion trend. It appears that it’s literally the exact same thing but happening to Asian people, I remember when people use to make fun of Asian eyes, thin eyebrows, or their skin tone, but now white people (and obviously I know any race can do this, I’m simply pointing it out in white people because it seems to apply to them more) are trying to copy it.
@@nial5420 I think it’s viewed as a negative thing because it’s done as a trend. For example, in the early 90s and 2000s being seen as thick was criticized over and over in the media, especially in movies. Because white people or lighter skinned people are seen with thicker bodies, it feels weird because poc went through years of critique for naturally being born that way and now it feels like people are just doing it for a costume. Look at the many women getting BBL’s and all types of surgeries to look curvy or the wave of white people wanting ethnically ambiguous children. You could argue there’s a social acceptance for this change (which is definitely there, I’m glad all body types are being represented) but I also can’t deny how it harms the people who were born that way and were alive to see the shift. It’s like wearing braids or locs. So many black children are sent back home from school because the hairstyle is deemed “unprofessional” but a white woman does it and she’s praised for being different. For some people it might not be a conscious thing but the fact that it happens constantly and is always viewed in the media definitely is weird to me. There’s this thing of non-white people wanting to pick and choose parts of various cultures to look and feel different without actually bothering to understand what they go through because they know they’ll always be socially accepted. I’m not trying to argue with you btw it’s just a bunch of stuff I’ve observed with society and social media definitely does not help
@@nial5420 TD;LR: I know a wrote a lot but I’m basically explaining the historical and modern aspects of why I specifically point out white people. And also might I just add, going through your comment again, I can’t tell you how much the “wider hips = fertility” line disgusts me, I have wider hips as a trans guy and it’s always been an insecurity of mine, I can assure you there’s rarely any biological advantage, and in modern times nobody looks at wide hips and thinks “Yeah They’re TotaLlY Hot Because They ProViDe MoRe RoOM” that’s just not a realistic statement. Maybe 500 years ago, but nowadays that’s not the defining factor for the beauty standards. Which is another topic I go over in my essay of a comment. If you feel offended by this as white person, then you must also engage in this, because if you’re a white person that doesn’t do that then the comment wasn’t directed towards you. I said time and time again that it wasn’t JUST white people, but from my experience, especially considering the history behind black features and the way they were perceived, white people are the general race of people that do this. We generalize them because ITS pretty much ALWAYS THEM. And I’m saying this as a mostly white person. Firstly, let’s talk about the history of the beauty standard, more specifically black features vs white features. During the time era where slavery had ended, and black people were finally migrating into the average white persons world (with the obvious fact that they faced oppression on several levels) there was still obviously a beauty standard. At the time, especially during the late 1800’s, early 1900’s being thinner, leaner, with smaller and more petite features, straight and brushed hair, little to no body hair, and light skin, we’re seen as beautiful, elegant, and feminine. These traits followed the white woman, and even man’s average genetic makeup. Whereas a black person, especially black women, who had nappy hair, (natural black hair) bigger or wider noses, big lips, curvier bodies, broader bones, tall builds, bushy eyebrows, more body hair, and obviously darker skin was perceived as ugly, unhygienic, and masculine. This difference in the beauty standard brainwashed or straight up coerced black women to look a certain way and mimic white womens looks. It was seen as desirable to be naturally light skinned, black women would constantly wear wigs, or straighten their hair, and constantly copy fashion trends or beauty hacks to appear more like a white woman. You may think that this was a long time ago and doesn’t affect modern society, but that’s not true at all. We see these beauty standards and obvious racism continue to spread even in modern America. Even AFTER black people started creating their own culture, people (especially white people) continued to find a way to infiltrate this and make it about them. From clothes, to features, music styles, and especially hair styles. My point is, is that the obvious contrast between a black person being perceived as ugly because of theyre features, and a white person or at the very least light skinned person being perceived as unique or beautiful because of having similar features is bizarre. And the fact that black women are constantly being judged for being heavier, fatter, and saggier, but when a white woman is curvy, it then becomes a trend. (It use to be a trend to get tanned, and have bronze skin, but that was only after white women were doing it) Just notice how bushy and big eyebrows, big lips, curvier bodies, and at one point darker skin was perceived as beautiful so long as it was on white woman or a lighter skinned woman is enough proof in itself. The fact of the matter is that white people were and still are the dominant race in America, and that influences a lot of things. Secondly, this can be tied to how Asian people are perceived, 9/10 times when I see a person fetishizing or trying to copy another races features, culture, and clothing/hair styles, it’s a white person. And this probably has something to do with every other race having some distinct feature, like wider button noses, larger lips, unique skin tones, or other distinct genetic racial differences, whereas white peoples features are now seen as basic or boring. I know several people, none of which are white, (usually black friends of mine) that want light and paler skin, like Asian or white people. I know several white people that want Asian eyes, curvier bodies, or big lips. I know several Hispanic people that want less body hair, smaller bodies, or lighter skin. The fact is, I KNOW this doesn’t just apply to white people, but what I’m trying to say is that time and time again, it seems to ONLY be white people that popularize these features. Once a white or light skinned celebrity or model makes that distinct racial feature a trend, IT becomes a trend. Even I, as a biracial person, am seen as lucky because I get to have black features without having black skin, or the black bone structure, or anything of that sort. My own (white) mom said she wanted to have me because she thinks mixed babies are cuter then white or black babies.
@@nial5420 And also NIAL, this has nothing to do with politics, not only am I not a liberal, but brining politics in this, (while also being ABSOLUTELY wrong and incorrect) and then directing the statement onto me by assuming which political party I am on based off a completely unrelated topic is beyond idiotic. Like the left has nothing to do with the over-sexualization of body parts? In no way shape or form was there any relevancy.
I feel korean skincare and literally claiming to be korean are two different things. Kbeauty brands sell their skincare products to be used, it doesn't matter, in my opinion, which race you are, as long as you don't make fun of it.
@@raingoff5839 No, I never said that. But kbeauty products should still be able to be used.. because the consumer's race doesn't matter as long as they don't make a joke of it. I'm only focusing on one small aspect anyways: Everyone can use kbeauty products if they really want to, it doesn't matter as long as they don't make fun of it. Because people can do whatever they want as long as it isn't harmful, wearing makeup is not harmful.
I think she added that in not as to further her fetishization argument but to further argument about how east Asia is trending, Korean skincare is like a top dog skincare market.
@@MiskeAli But that's because east asian skin care products are great. I think it would have trended sooner or later anyway. Seeing Kpop stars etc. with good skin and learning about Korean beauty standards etc. trough that just made it easier for the skin care brands.
“So that us fans all the way over here are already consuming fetishized versions of Korean people”-wow! Brilliant insight. This really hit me as a Korean American.
As a half vietnamese american, I've felt that I've always had to prove my "asian-ness" to both my white and asian peers. Doing things like watching anime, listening to kpop, using korean skin care, and following eastern fasion trends has all been things to help me "feel more asian" growing up. When I got older, I felt as if my "asian-ness" was being sold back to me, as a watered down version of my heritage. The idea that I myself have origins in that mystical romanticized eastern world made me feel empowered. It wasn't until my mom and grandparents got me into buddhism that I actually felt connected with my family heritage in a way that didn't feel superficial.
Idk who you are but you don't have to prove anything to anyone. YOUR WORTH AS A HUMAN BEING IS ENOUGH AND YOU'RE SPECIAL. Start a TH-cam channel where you can find your desired tribe and the people who have the same personality or thoughts as yours. Don't let yourself to be put in a box with these whole social problems in life. Life is so much more than just east asian or western countries.
wow im half mexican and i feel the exact same way, i try to prove my "mexican-ness" to my hispanic and white aquaintances by using the slang, speaking more spanish and eating more cultural foods. i hate that i have to get validation from other people to prove to not just them, but myself that im truly mexican. even just someone recognizing the fact that im hispanic without me having to tell them or prove it to them makes me feel so happy. being mixed is a real struggle and i whole-heartedly agree with you.
Same here! I grew up in a close-knit Vietnamese community, with virtually no contact with my white family, yet still felt the need to prove I was "Asian" enough bc of my looks. So, what helped me was diving deep into learning the intricacies of various cultures, histories, traditions, and (past and current) politics of multiple east Asian countries, esp and as well as my own family's background (who came here after the war). In doing so, it became easier to see divides via nationality over ethnicity and feel a connection through the shared/similar values that east Asian countries may have, in general, while understanding where differences could be and why they may exist. It definitely helped me get out of trying to stick to this purely collective east Asian identity and finally feel a genuine connection to my own heritage. Seeing how different and similar the views of Vietnamese ppl in Vietnam are compared to those here, depending on the topic and which generation you ask, it was easier to accept myself as being Vietnamese-American.
I'm half Filipino and I'm 22 still figuring out my identity. I never felt like I belong with Asians or black (my other side is black). I'm usually too black to be asian or too Asian to be black. Being with my own family, some of them made me feel the same way. I ended up focusing on being with ppl who would accept me for me: diversity. Where everyone is from different cultures. That's my safety net
knew a girl in high school who told everyone she was 100% korean when not only was her last name nguyen, but she had a twin brother in the grade who was like ...no we are viet
As a viet guy I would never do some shit like that But also as an aside ever since June 13th 2013 (BTS formation day lmao) Asian men finally became more of a commodity in dating (as opposed to eunuchs) and I noticed. granted being fetishized is dehumanizing but as the video author mentioned there’s power in self fetishization and I rly can’t complain that I’m more of an option now thanks to kpop. I even grew out a middle part and got circle glasses (not that Koreans have a “monopoly” on those things but u get the point).
lmfao! yeah that really is sad. I grew up with 90% of my friends being viet and some of *their* viet friends would learn japanese and try to act all kawaii desu too thinking it made them legit japanese since they're already asian and therefore better than non-asians that also liked the language. The amount of cringe weeaboo behaviour associated (like them^) with the rise of anime popularity killed my interest in studying the language/anime soon after..
its gonna go from "ew, you're disgusting and weird" to "i wanna be you/fetishize you" this happenes with brown people, black people, the LGBTQ+ community (particularly bisexuals or gay men),east asians, and many more.
I agree and know what it feels like especially being apart of the lgbtq+ specifically bisexual. I constantly hear people calling me and my friends the f-slur but then they go on to saying things like "I want a gay best friend" or "I wear rainbow, so how am I not an ally" "I can say the f-slur, I don't hate gay people" it's so weird..
As much as i dont see myself as anything other than straight, your point does still stand. people are exposed to cultures a lot more these days and choose to pick ideally and builds their lives as such, surgeries to look korean, learning japanesd culture purely through anime.. what we (east asian born) export in terms of culture is often universal.. films, art, music is all so easily consumable that obviously this is something good. imagine a gorgeous cake sitting on display.. once you order it. its nowhere near that plastic display. we ship things to westerners because westerners invest a lot into multiculturalism and adopting and supporting other cultures, we surgically perfect, our kpop models, our animes and mangas are the work of half dead mangakas and animators
add to that, we usually dont show anything to even fellow koreans or japanese of anything shameful or not perfect. Sneezing? outside class, shoes? in your lockers, abusive family? deal with it, you're THEIR child, harsh work? you're getting paid to work What do you think a nation which normalises that, would try and pitch to westerners? a perfect breed
In the Philippines we also had this culture , we call it Mahinhin or Mayumi or in Slang term Maria Clara , it is a combination of Asian Modesty (Timid , Innocent , Shy , not necessarily cute) and Traditional Western Christian Values.
“Rarely do we hear about fetishization of Loas, Vietnam, Philippines.” You mean the brown ones …that face discrimination even amongst other asain communities? Wonder why Westerners don’t fetishizes them… (to the same amount)
exactly, these types of videos ignore the fact that fetishization is selective for a reason, and that reason is discrimination. These Japanese, korean, etc. east Asians are pale and white skinned. That's a requirement to be considered desirable or "fetishizable" in the west. South asians are the least fetishized because they're darker
@@bunnywavyxx9524 I was about to say that + it's also about features. Even a light skinned south Asian or a southeast asian is still not respected or liked anywhere until and unless they have lot of money. Also a lot of white people and east Asian people have similar thoughts and needs when it comes to beauty so they all complement physically. And any person who don't fit in those white and east Asian beauty standards should never feel like as if they're less attractive or are not worthy of being a human. Remember that not all east Asians people fit the beauty standards of east Asia especially a lot of Chinese, Korean people working in tech industry like Google, Facebook don't even fit in east Asian beauty standards and that's fine. I mean there's so much to do in life other than wanting to fit in a beauty standards.
The closest thing to fetishism is the stereotype of filipina women having a white husband as a money bag. Like, why can't we just marry someone from a different race just for love?
Idk, I feel like it is skin color but it’s more than that. It’s because Korean and Japanese culture/media and a little bit of China’s is very consumable to not only the west but everywhere. Until countries like Myanmar, Vietnam, Philippines, etc are able to have the economic power to produce media similar to anime, k/cdramas, kpop, etc, there won’t necessarily ever be as much fetishization of those cultures because they simply just don’t have a presence. Not that fetishization is a good thing but it’s also about what countries have to offer pop culture-wise.
Vietnamese and Pinoy actors and celebrities are all super pale, the idea that either of these people are "brown" only works if you've never seen one of them.
As a person from central/east Europe (Poland to be exact), who had some contact with the fetishized asian culture in his life (kpop, anime etc), however not much contact with asian people or real (by real i mean direct and nonfetishized) I have to say that i never really thought of the asian media that I consumed as a real cultural product, but rather a crafted one. It really felt like i didn't enjoy a part of the culture but a carefully crafted product, a sort of advertisment. This video nicely reasurred my feeling. Thanks for the cultural context :)
No, they really are their cultural product because every other country cannot make the same thing. For example, no other country can make American movies and series because eventhough you as American thinks it's far removed from your reality, at the very least it's reflect your reality. Captain America cannot be made in any other country, nor is Iron Man. Because no other country is preoccupied with military might and power like America! You can argue China, Russia and France are also obsessed with the military, but the way their government work cannot make the individual freedom loving superhero story work. Also the moral questions in these movies reflect American's dilemma with their ongoing war in some sandy places that other countries just don't understand. So you telling me it's not 'real cultural product' is frankly bizarre because it actually reflect what the culture is preoccupied with.
@@syasyaishavingfun they're kind of right because most series will not be so overt in how the society functions at least not a clueless foreigner. For example I am not well versed in south east asian history or culture so any film or series potraying societal issues viewpoint extra will just fly over my head because I just don't understand those smaller hints and 2 all media will always have a level of overdrama to make sure you're engaged with what is happening. For example the inbettweners and dr who both will give a more fantastical view of british culture than what you're likely to see.
I honestly have been thinking in my whole life that products like these are part of cultures. Maybe not physically, but it tells a lot about how the people there think and see the world thru their eyes. How their mindset works, how their civilization works. Like movies for example, i'm asian and i watch american movies frequently, i can definitely feel the differences between asian culture & american culture while watching them. I can differentiate the things i would NOT do in asia that seem to be normalized in the movie. Soft power is always about culture, you promote your culture & mindset through entertainment
One time I was on Pinterest and someone was doing a "helping you find your aesthetic thing" and they said they would do "koreancore" and I was just like wtf like what does that mean LMFAOOO 🤢😭
I only know about the "-core" aesthetic from Weirdcore, Dreamcore and Traumacore. I dont know that there's a "-core" that uses peoples' race. Im glad my Pinterest and Tumblr are safe from all of that.
Well.....TikTok is probably the BIGGEST PLATFORM that have ruined everything honestly. Especially today we are living where I think most people use TikTok.
Tiktok and instagram ruined everything but they wouldn't exist if the US didn't exist so they ruined everything but also they wouldn't be a thing if europe and spcially britain wasn't a thing so I blame the british
I am a white french male and i experienced "fetishization" in Singapore and South Korea while working there. I would never say that it can compare to what east-asian can experience in Europe/America but i think i could understand more about what it could feel like to be fetishized. I completely relate to the fact that people were defining me only by physical features ( you can clearly see it when people are just asking for a picture and then leave without trying to talk or form a connection). I think this issue of fetishization is not limited to East asia but rather a "common" thing that represents exotism in a foreign country. Anyway great video, you put some word and on some underlying thought that i had about this whole issue.
Honestly, it's a worry of mine for when I do travel one day. Not only can I not already safely do so by myself as a woman, but I'm 6' and bound to draw attention because of it. I don't want that attention, but I would be like a strange commodity in any country that doesn't have 6' as a common enough height. Which means I'm bound for travelling to "white" countries, which sounds boring and exclusionist as hell. If you ever return, you need to wear a mask and sunglasses and look real recluse. The scent and energy you give off is also important, so that's something to consider. That should deter some people, but I'm sure you'd still get the odd phone in your face. Did it annoy you a lot, or just more of a weird experience sort of thing? I'd be interesting to see the difference in how a white male is received, compared to a white female. History can answer for that, but I wonder if anything has changed. Anyway, you made a great point that I've always considered myself too; the "outsiders" are something new and not well understood, and people want to understand, categorise, and know you and "your ways" are not a threat to their otherwise peaceful experience and life.
@@someoldytaccount I would agree with you that it is indeed "bound to happen" to have people taking picture or giving you looks. The only times i felt truly uncomfortable were when "moms" ( female 35 to 50 age range) approached and flirted / were touching me (not in sexual way but there hands were feeling my arm for example) as if i was an escort or just an object (this happened in the streets not in a bar or flirty setting). I cant speak on how i would have been treated if i were to be a women there as i have the "advantage" of being rather intimidating physically and i could stop things easily if they were going to escalate to borderline sexual harassment. Also it putted me for the first time in the position of a "minority" and now even if i cant really understand what women or specific ethnicity might experience on a daily basis, i am now aware of the issue and can try to take parts in order to reduce the prejudices. But even though it was somewhat annoying i absolutely do not regret going there and i would encourage you do so as well, maybe trying to go with a friend? I noticed that encounters were less frequent when i was not alone. I hope your travels will go well and you will have beautiful memories that will surely on the long run erase the bad ones !
@@Goyo_MGC Thats pretty weird I havent seen ppl do that outside of bars or flirty settings Thats quite unlucky of you to have met those aunties Sorry you had to go through that, I know the large majority of ppl here arent that bad tho
I'd just like to say that assuming a "South Asian" identity is not uncommon within South Asia. There are many ethnolinguistic and especially religious divisions within and amongst most South Asian nations, and claiming a South Asian identity is a way of breaking down some of those boundaries, though the term 'South Asian' itself is not used.
@@karlarao8736 yeah, plus desis don't even want to associate with each other in the first place until we're in a foreign country at which point its like oh i have more in common with you than i do with this person whos lived in minnesota their whole life. and honestly even then i see everyone segregating themselves into more specific identities (at least at the nationality level) all of the time. i went to a garba/raas celebration and it was literally 98% gujrati people
@@karlarao8736 yup and there are lots of people from those countries who don't even fit into that 'desi' category either so these archetypes of what it is to be a South Asian in western media are such gross simplifications of people who belong to one of the most culturally, linguistically, ethnically and even phenotype wise, diverse regions on planet Earth
you really pack a lot of info in your videos and your choice of topic itself is very concise. you cracked the code on how to keep people engaged for a full video, which is hard to do in this "entertain me in 5 seconds or i click off' world.
As a Thai person I do agree with you on aegyo or being cute. I generally think of myself as a serious person but I sometimes tried to be cute for the sole purpose of being socially accepted or creating harmony in a group and I have to admit that it does makes my life easier by performing what is expected of you as a girl. I once read an article on the difference expectations of women in East Asia like Japan and the west. While East Asian (or other countries that are heavily influenced by East Asian cultures like Thailand) are expected to be cute or “inferior”, Western women are expected to be sexy. In the workplace, it seems that the “sexy” women are more respected because at least they’re not childish; however, I find both of these expectations (and many more about women) problematic. Why can’t women be respected just as who they are without performing these expectations?!
cute looking people gets infantilized and and exotic looking people gets sexualized. they don’t take both of them seriously. in both ways, it’s very uncomfortable.
Everyone needs to peg some identifying characteristic onto others they meet just to sort them out in their mind. Tbh, now that I'm not that young anymore, trying to get others to think of you the way you want to is merely a necessary growing pain to get used to. I'm Asian myself and as a son, my father would force his views of what a man should be the whole time I was growing up: know your way around a toolbox, learn how to use power tools, be able to fix a car on your own instead of going to a mechanic, etc. And growing up as a boy, you learn very quick to be macho, confident, and learn skills quickly or get called weak, dumb, useless, and will never get a girlfriend. Nowadays, that stuff is very useful with my own responsibilities, financial safety, and social circles to worry about. It helps navigate society and deal with others whether positively (you want to associate with them) or negatively (you want to filter them out and get away). It's a sort of game you have to play, or get left behind if you don't. And it's not a single-player game either; it's a gigantic multi-player game where others will expect you to contribute appropriately if you are on their team (friends, business partners, spouses, etc.) for any reason. If you can be your true self and nobody bothers you, then it's already common courtesy and respect. Getting more than that will need you to play the roles they like while balancing your interest in it. Getting less than that... Well... Those people are not for you. TL;DR = Listen to boomers and people who "have a life"... *sometimes*. You'll turn around on some perspectives and find some useful stuff.
just how humans are i guess, regardless of gender. for example, in a majority female workplace, suddenly the expectations are on the men to please the women and not disrupt the atmosphere. Even for men, we judge other men and treat them differently, and I'm pretty sure its no different for women. It's just that in most cases men hold more superior positions in the workplace so the burden of pleasing is on women and the blame is on men.
I’m kind of relieved by the fact that it’s possible to act cute instead of sexy now, since it’s easier for me to act that way given all my tics and fidgeting. If society will refuse to see me as a serious guy I may as well survive by the slightly less exhausting option of being seen as a cute girl… even though it’s more dishonest and soul-crushing.
I can’t overstate how big ur brain is on this!!! Also the perfect timing coz im writing a paper on native vs diaspora cultural representation!!!! Self orientalism and fetishization is definitely something to consider!! Its interesting that china self fetishezes like you said in the tourism videos, but when the ethnic minorities are represented in media, chinese people reject them? Eg Dior photorapher Chen Man getting cancelled because she took portraits of ethnic minorities in her video shoot coz they “dont represent chinese beauty". What im noticing is that natives and westerners/diaspora fetishize "asianness" differently. Like how tiktok have viral fox eye trends, makeup styles thats accused for asian fishing, and ariana grande on her latest monolid look. Whereas, in Weibo, Chinese makeup and beauty standards are always about BIG eyes? Chinese people really hate being stereotyped with small eyes, but the biggest takeway by western internet in asian fishing is taping slanted eyes and monolids? Meanwhile, Chinese illustrators and artists who are (I assume) trying to embrace their natural looks by drawing characters with small/slant eyes are quickly getting called 辱华 (insulting the Chinese race) and pandering to Western stereotypes of East Asians. Is this about exoticization vs the cute culture too?? Anyway great thought provoking video!!!
I’ve always been said to have “big eyes for an Asian person” and it pisses me off. What’s that supposed to mean? How do you expect me to take that backhanded shit as a compliment? Asian people aren’t a stereotype. We are real Humans too. We are only objects to this world. Yet we’re the staple of keeping this world standing.
My Chinese friend taught me “Aegyo” back in 2018 when we were taking selfies lol. It can be fun playing that way, but I feel bad for the women who have been exploited that way or doing it when they don’t want to..
@USERZ123 I have noticed men using that type of voice too! And on top of that- the phenomena not being exclusive to China, we see a version of it in America and all over the planet, really, where women’s femininity is fetishized. I guess there is a fine line between just being feminine (whatever that may mean for the respective female) and then Aegyo. In a way it’s like the female version of “toxic masculinity” ?We shouldn’t look down on “girly girls” or “tomboys” nor “feminine men” or whatever. we each express gender differently. It’s hard to tell how much culture has influenced that and how much is innate..
My consumption of Korean and Japanese media has led me to change a lot. I have straightened my hair, have stopped wearing ethnic clothes and have been following korean fashion intensively, i also fixate on my features like nose, legs (cause thier beauty standard prefers long legs),my weight and so on and so forth. I also talk with my head voice . Through this video i realised how it has impacted me. All this changes took with the gradual increase and popularity of their media and it has made an impact on me. I look forward to myself being more culturally grounded and accepting my beautiful features as they are.
As an Afghan growing up in America, I can say that while the years after September 11 were not great for the community (bigotry and what not against brown people) I can at least find peace knowing that I'll never be called a "Spicy Latino" or "Sexy Asian".
Honestly the way America and Europe approaches the Arab community and Islam (especially Islam) needs a whole video to be talked about, both are worse than each other
@@karma5321 I know you mean well but I just want to make sure. Afghans are not Arabs, their "Persians" (quotes because I know English is weird with definitions), if you ever mix those up in real life conversation it can be incredibly awkward, it's like calling a Brazilian person Spanish, or a Cuban person Mexican. Mostly people won't try to correct you because they don't want to come of as annoying but in their heads they have already made some unflattering assumptions about you. ;)
@@Абдулло-щ3е9э and some people don’t even know that Afghanistan is in Asia 😭. When I tell people that I’m from Afghanistan and that I’m an Asian they’re like ‘no your not 😗, you don’t look Asian ’ . 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ I m fed up of people telling me my race and ethnicity
@@MomoMomo-nz2gm so true. World's perception of Asia is East and Southeast Asian looking people...even people from the mentioned region do not know India, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other countries in Middle East are Asian. I am even confused, as an Asian, sometimes if the term Asian should refer to people living in the Asian continent or just those who look like the perceived Asian, I mean those races with almond shaped eyes with black hair.
13:10 I am a hundred percent Korean female, lived my entire life in this country, so I must say that the definition of aegyo is different between western people and us Koreans. Aegyo is more like, something that a person with sweet, bright personality naturally has, not the weird 'acting-like-a-baby' sort of thing. Also, I'm not trying to be offensive, but in this video you make it seem like aegyo is vital for Korean woman. That is not true at all. If someone does an 'aegyo(what western people think)' in her workplace, people will see her as a weird, unprofessional person. I am a student and I go to a girls only school, but if my classmate does aegyo at school, kids will think she is crazy. Normal Korean woman does not do aegyo in everyday life. As for K-pop idols doing aegyo, it's supposed to be funny, not cute. (idk why western people think aegyo is cute.. aegyo is supposed to be part of a joke) The idol's awkward reaction is supposed to be funny (it's some kind of an inside joke) when the MC in the reality show makes them do aegyo. 13:12 and this just doesn't make sense. I've never seen anybody in Korea teach children to do aegyo from a very young age... 'Being cute' thing might be the kind of thing you are talking about in Japan, but in Korea, no. Koreans don't have that weird fetish. We love indenpendent woman and nowadays it is almost impossible for passive woman to get a job. But overall I agree about what you are talking about. I really appreciate your research. +sorry if my English is weird here. I'm not a native speaker...
You only touched on it a little, but I want to emphasize that the strategized self-fetishization like Cool Japan or Korean Wave may help export of cultural products, but in no way it will truly let the fans learn the real culture. As if Rambo or Captain America are true representation of the U.S., same idea.
You are 100% right, and honestly this should honestly be the crux of the argument. These behaviors and whitewashing of history are not internalized because we vacuously decided that we like it. These behaviors are internalized because they were profitable as cultural exports. Here's a great example: the Bushido code. When Nitobe wrote "Bushido: The Soul of Japan" Japanese people considered it to be a gross misrepresentation of their culture, while the West were shocked and held this book as the truth on Japan for many decades, even still to this day. But through the cool Japan initiative, the government decided to whitewash samurai to their most extreme to rehabilitate Japan's imperial war crimes and promote their tourist industry. The reality is that Samurai were a brutal and oppressive class that terrorized peasants at every turn, but this history is erased when Japan set out to market their country as harmonious, apolitical, and without conflict for the Western Gaze. The point is that this does not happen by coincidence. People don't change their way of lives unless it is profitable. Look at every cultural export that east Asia has and behind it you will see big money at work.
Yea, I'm not even Asian but I had to have a Convo with a girl that basically wanted to date Korean guys because she and I quote "wanted a good guys like the ones from kdramas"(she was young but still) ..........I had to pull her aside and break it to her. The short version of what I told her was that it doesn't matter where they're from or what race they are there are going to be good guys and terrible guys everywhere. Kdramas are made to romanticize and overdramatize situations and people just like any form of media 🤦🏾♀️
this video and the media video has some of the most interesting topics that honestly keep me alive and thinking we're going through such an interesting point in humanity
Great video. However I strongly disagree that Vietnam, Philippines or Thailand etc. are rarely fetishized. While I don't know how it is in the US, living here in Europe especially the women of those countries are immensely objectified and seen as trophy women for "ugly" european men. Most of them are seen as poorly educated but easy targets for s*xual relationships. And ofc the stereotype is that they're exotic, submissive & obedient. Sometimes they have those traits simply bc they can't speak the european country's language fluently. I do think east asia is more "popular" in the mainstream, but the fetishization does include Asia (yes, South Asia included) in general. At least that's my experience in Europe. Edit: I also have to add that there's a stereotype here that asian women are pr*stitutes & cheap.
that is such a good point!! there are many middle aged white men in america too that travel to Vietnam, Philippines and Thailand to take advantage of the women there and fetishize them
@Jk Yess I agree with you completely and this stereotype of south east asian women. I do have to make a correction that that image is mostly perpetuated by Thailand and Philippines tho. They have do have more freedom in their sexual culture, plus poverty kind of encourage ppl to go for old white people for ✨dem USD ✨(really sad tbh) This is the extreme opposite in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei. Mostly conservative people and having sex outside of marriage is still a huge taboo. Unless you're seeing actual prostitutes, good luck getting some action XDD I remember first time I found out that it is normal for kids in Germany to have sex at like 14 I was like, shooketh Here you can safely assume all your classmates in university are virgins, and we wear our virginlord badge with pride lmaoooo
As European the section about aegyo was really interesting for me because I realized it's really similar to "dumb blond behaviour" (i didn't create the name that's how men call cute women). Even thought I'm an independent feminist woman in certain situations to get through them I have to act dumb and clueless. We dont exactly make ourselves look childlike, just more inexperienced or younger. I used to do it unconsciously while asking strangers for help.
Yeah I already deflated aggressions and even violent attempts at me just by playing into this poor helpless innocent girl act... Like ...why is this a thing we need to survive...
funny or sadly enough the dumb blond is an archetype from holywood in which the blond girl was always dumb sexual and is some what promiscous and since that was getting churned out so hard especially in the 80s-00s just about everyone has some understanding of it.
Maybe this has more to do with your bubble than anything else. I´m a European as well and the girls I interacted with in my life never play cutsey here. If you still accept help from people who make you change your whole attitude, maybe you all should overthink if it is truly worth it. Also, we "men" do not call cute women "dumb blondes", I have never heard this phrase...It does exist, but is not used generally for cute women
There is a TH-camr who was born female, transitioned to and lived as male, and then detransitioned, and now lives as female again. In one video, she talked about the difference between living as male vs.female, and which was "better". She said that as a female she experienced more compassion and understanding from other people, but as male she experienced more respect and deference. I honestly don't think this is just a culturally constructed difference. I think this is the ultimate foundation of gender difference. I'm not saying that it is "right" or "fair". But I think it's pretty universal. And one important point is that there are costs and benefits that come with each gender stereotype. While women have a harder time getting respect and autonomy from others, men are treated more harshly and given less help from others. Neither role is universally "better". It all depends on the context.
As a southeast Asian I think this topic is really interesting from my POV. Because in my community it’s almost as if they put East Asians on a pedestal and a goal to achieve their looks. I wouldn’t call it fetishization, but it feels like it. Like we’re Asian but not seen as the pretty Asians and it’s a compliment if someone says you look Korean or Chinese. I’ve even heard some girls say they wished they were born East Asian. Edit: I’m just writing this edit bc I feel like my original comment has gotten taken out of context/strayed away from the point💀 what I’m basically trying to say is that SOME southeast Asians (mainly those living in western countries where East Asian content dominates Asian media/representation) feel like they have to cosplay/pretend to be East Asian to be seen has the more “popular” Asians. And this notion is SOMEWHAT upheld by some elders in our own community. With some comments I personally heard from MY community using looking Korean or any form of EA (including Chinese bc I have heard some) as a compliment. I AM NOT speaking for all southeast Asians or ANY other asian regions, but this is what I have witnessed in MY COMMUNITY. I wrote my og comment because in the video it talks about self-fetishization which I felt kind of related since I do feel like SOME romanticize the idea of what it’s like to be East Asian and turn it into something that’s not very progressive for the Asian community. I also wrote my comment to express something I PERSONALLY have not heard discussed enough about in the SEA community. In no means am I saying that there’s anything wrong with not being East Asian. In fact I think that’s something people in our community needs to learn and push forward towards in order to accept who we are. I hope this explains enough.
i see that a lot. as a white girl who loves kpop and is actively getting into sea cultures the different reactions i get are insane. when I say i love kpop and would like to visit korea i get maybe a koreaboo joke or a bts joke. when i mention i like bollywood and would love to visit india, i get a "but there are poor people there" its weird
It does end up, to a certain extent, as a feeling of not being "the good kind" of asian, Not being particularly discriminated, but having no positive representation if any at all. It is as if the world ignores south east Asia. It's not uncommon to wish to have been born as an east Asian, it's the desire to be desirable.
@@haleycopans296 Don’t listen to those guys. Go to any country you want to go to, just make sure you’re safe and not hating on the culture or overstepping boundaries.
Crazy. Not surprising.. but crazy. I'm still shocked that whitening cream is a concept that exists in... the 21st century. I am mixed race... and for whatever reason, I always wanted to be darker. I like that for myself. I live in a white country, perhaps that is somehow a factor... white people always want to be darker, and apparently vice versa? Except in the places where there was the whole... peasants work outside and so skin tone class system... caste system? It's all pretty stupid in any case.
I ended up confused at 16:04. I was In particular contemplating your depiction on the"fetishization" on East- asia, And while pausing the video to type this response I thought about how this can be applied to different groups of people, their ideas, and their cultures as well (With the nuances of each being assumed). Although I'm new to your content, I respect your cohesively-given examples and your apparent willingness to anwser questions I found myself glossing over. -Thank you for posting Improving content.
"Weebs" and people like that bug me. As a white guy learning Japanese, (because I want to work in the Japanese business field someday) I have taken a strong interest in culture and tradition, music, food, etc. It always bothers me when people call me a "weeb" for learning about another culture that I want to work in someday. Wihtout a true understanding of all aspects of the culutre. I think all people who are infatuated with Asian culture that think of it as "perfect" and "kawaii" need a reality check and to educate themselves. Yes, Japan (in particular) has seen an increase in "cute" styles and marketing trends. Yes, it might be foreign that their country is clean, safe, and trains arrive on time. But as with anywhere, not everything is perfect. To gain a real understanding of these countries, it is also important to understand (again, speaking on Japan because I am most knowledgeable there) that there are difficult issues such as a flatlining economy, a severely declining population, a massive overwork and death from overwork problem, an inefficient labor force, etc. etc. etc. Just remember: When you think of the bright lights of Shinjuku and the "cuteness" of Tokyo, remember that there are countless salarymen in an office looking down on that while working their 62nd hour of overtime. The sushi restaurant that you think is so different has an employee who hasn't sat down for 13 hours. While the hustle and bustle of the city is going until 2am, remember that in Gunma or Gifu there is a dying village with only 50 people left. There are plenty of people who would love to be in your position. There is nothing wrong with being interested in other cultures, but please please please learn about them first. If you still find it fascinating and intriguing after learning about the cool elements of their culture AND their problems, you are a step closer to culutral appreciation instead of cultural fetishization.
you sir have hit the nail in the head at the end of day Japan is a country and many people forget about that. Im the same as you learning the language currently in school and trying to gain experience to get there. I watch anime and other media to help me with my immersion and its pretty obvious well to me that Japan ain't like this. Like its cartoon how can people believe this replicates everyday life. Also I have seen cases where people express their desire to like give japan a shot and they don't even sound weebish or obsessive and there always have to be people saying "oh Japan ain't all sunshine or rainbows , you are never going to be japanese". Like dude no shit why people think that everybody are weeaboos is annoying.
I would say, Japan is a great country to live in, granted that you do not actually work for any companies there, i.e. you're retired or you're a streamer or something like that
Based on my name some would call me a weeb... And I am... But I don't really think I'm fetishizing Japan, I just watch Anime, cook Tonkatsu or Omurice when I'm craving it(there's a japanese channel who liked my culture who started cooking my country's traditional food while also giving tutorials for Japanese food), I was learning Japanese but I didn't have time because I'm focusing on college. I'm also sidelearning Animation to maybe work in anime outsourcing studios in my country... I'm also Asian... I just don't have monolids. Btw I'd probably hate living in Japan, visiting I'd love it but working?? Based on all the Manga's I've read, fuck no... 90% Manga's that has some sort of work in it end up with the character either being depressed, overworked, dead.
The last part of my comment is also goes with Korean stuff... I'd die before I go to school in Korea, bullying there based on Korean comics the can be horrible... And some apparently has truth to it.
This reminds me of when my Japanese language professor asked us as to why people study Japanese, and a lot of people say that they want to live and Japan and they grew to like Japan due to anime. It wasn’t about learning the culture, ethics, or language of a place outside of your own, but rather to participate in a world that you believe exists due to anime, which has lead them to these false expectations that “Japan is a flawless, and lawful and outstanding place!” And ignore the voices of those that tell them otherwise due to this false perception being built due to anime consumption.
110%! I studied Japanese at uni in the UK and by far the majority of the class got into learning Japanese due to anime, and always assumed I was a fan of anime too, simply just because of me learning Japanese. Even studying abroad in Japan, most of my class were Chinese students and a HUGE portion of the class were huge anime fans and would use phrases or ask the sensei about phrases they heard in anime.
Basically, Japan was a culture shock to a lot of people in my class (irregardless of where they came from) due to anime ruling their perception of the country and culture lmao
@@katr_i_na only reason I’d learn Japanese is so I can have a conversation with Smokey nagata or some of the other major people in the Japanese car scene like akira nakai cause I like rwb 🤷♂️
although anime was what introduced me to Japan, I feel like if I wanted to study japanese I would like the culture to a certain extent. when I see japan in like pictures it looks beautiful especially places like kyoto which have a idk traditional feel to it? I would also want to learn something if I'm good at it and anime did help me learn some japanese since I watched it with subtitles but to truly study japanese as a subject I would definitely have to love its cultures and traditions
As a black person, 1 thing I have to say about how Lizzo, nas x, and Doja act online is that black people are marketed as wild and unburdened by convention. So even their "real" imagine online is a marketing strategy.
You're so right bro. That marketed image of the foul-mouthed. ghetto rat precedes us everywhere we go. Imagine my "joy" at being greeted by random Asian youth with a hearty "What's up my Niggah?" I can't be angry with them because they don't know any better. It's all they see. From Samuel L. Jackson to 99.9% percent of rap musicians, it is the image our nation markets to the world.
You've got that right, it's all the same. It's all the same shit, just different toilets. It's all a marketing ploy to get you to buy their product. For Kpop, the product is a innocent pretty boy that can sing. The market is simply giving customers what they want, if you want to be angry at someone, you should be angry at the customer for supporting the product.
I'm, for some reason, glad that she refers to these countries as EAST ASIAN and not wholly ASIAN because Asia is huge and has a diverse range of countries.
22:38 true. I love anime, so I started learning about actual Japanese culture, and I want to go to Japan in the future. But I don’t wish I was born there. I know how pressured they are in school to have good grades, how strict schools are, how misogynistic, colourist, etc. Japan is. And I mean I still appreciate the cultural practices, the language and the entertainment industry, but I also know that that’s not how Japan actually is.
for the good weebs, they remind other weebs that anime is different from the reality that happens in Japan, Basically we remind that we must be able to distinguish between reality and fiction (anime).
@@wisono7857 there are no good "weebs". "weeb/weeaboo" is a derogatory term meant for people who fetishize Japanese culture (i think people on 4chan started using the word in place of "Japanophile" years ago, and it just caught on) Liking anime or being interested in Japanese culture doesn't make you a fetishist, obvs. sorry to nitpick i just find it frustrating that "weeaboo" has been softened to mean "anime geek" or smth when it could've been such a powerful forum weapon LOL
@@actualgoblin so why can't we change the meaning to fix some of the negative connotation? I still remember when the term first came into popular use and was always used to put people down, but that's changed recently. Sure it can still be used negatively, but what's wrong with changing the connotation behind it?
same here. I'm american and I love the language, media and food and stuff. but it's more of an appreciation of contrasting cultures; it shows just how different earth can get and how amazing our world is. I think we should learn to accept that the only thing different about different races/ethnicities is 1. where we were born, 2. our cultures/the way we were raised, 3. the way we look we are all just humans on a planet anyways!
I'm a 36 yr old Korean American, lived in Korea and the U.S, and I don't see any issues with Aegyo. It's so nuanced and yes you're right, those who live outside of the culture like you might struggle to understand it. It doesn't take away from a woman's independence, her empowerment or her maturity. I personally don't have as much aegyo as some of my friends, but I still aegyo to my husband (it comes out naturally I dont plan it), and also to my older cousins whom I'm very close with---and it's not in a way that demeans my "adulthood" at all. The clips you showed to represent aegyo are so far off on one end, where it CAN be very cringe, so I dont believe it's a very fair representation of how nuanced aegyo can be. Also, keep in mind that even MEN do it to their peers and lovers so it's not just subjected to women. For us east Asians who grew up in their cultures, it's an endearing act more than anything else, and done mostly to those they love or are close with.
Would you say it’s similar to how American couples “baby talk” eachother and act cutely. Or even how highschool students here act cutely as a way of camaraderie through hand symbols, physical touch, facial expressions and in group slang/nicknames?
@@bru1sed_v1olet I would personally say yes, on both examples. It could look like either of those, and a whole lot more. I mean, even if we think of baby talk to a spouse, it can be subtle or excessive depending on the person and relationship. So for example, if my hubby ate the last piece of chocolate I wanted, I would say "Babe...I wanted that last piece of chocolate...." in a normal toned voice, however, I would also pout out my lower lip ever so slightly and glare cutely at him because it's not like I'd be super angry he ate it, but my face would show that I was definitely disappointed. He finds it endearing whilst knowing that he should never eat my last piece of chocolate ever again. Lol.
Coming from a complete newcomer to all of this, just learned what aegyo is like 5 seconds ago, it just seems creepy in the way of people on a large scale romanticizing the idea of children and acting like a child (your case is fine, to me it just seems off when someone tries to change their public image to that of some childish persona)
You could also argue, that it is some kind of stress reliver. In Countrys, like Japan or Korea, most People have a high Pressure on them, to uphold themself to the high social Standards and constantly wear a "professional" Face or Mask outside. So to underline the Fact, they are now in an Environment, reserved for Frinds and Family, they act more freely and exaggerate it sometimes, with the more cute and soft behaviour.
Thank you for this comment! Didn’t know there was a word for it until now, but I definitely aegyo towards my boyfriend, and I’ve always felt bad for doing it, because it seems kind of wrong for a 20 year old to occasionally talk with a baby voice. But I only do it with him, and he also does it with me. So I wouldn’t even think of doing it in any sort of more formal situation or even in front of others. Relieving to know that I’m not the only one, and to know that there’s a large spectrum!
When you realise the reason anime and catgirls exist, was because Japan wanted to be more lighthearted and "cute" to foreigners and to uplift their people's spirits after the horrors of war... In other words, the U.S. in a sense, bombed weaboos into existence
Personally, I find it really interesting to see “aegyo” manifested as a cultural significator despite it being a widespread evolutionary tactic. Korea has definitely given it a life of its own, so I understand why it’s perceived that way, but this behavior isn’t limited to Koreans. As a woman in a western society, even I find myself playing into vulnerability and childlike tendencies for my advantage; Egos are suddenly malleable when faced with the prospect of being a hero. The concept of “soft power” can be applied here. I think there is value in being meek. In combination of personal experience and various observations, this behavior is especially prevalent in relationships because of the vulnerability that comes with such strong intimacy and privacy. Constantly I, a mixed American woman, and my boyfriend, a white American man, engage in infantilizing behavior with each other. We have no reason to have our guards up around each other, so we feel safer to express ourselves in a more vulnerable way. Sometimes it’s to gain affection, other times it’s for lighthearted manipulation (think puppy eyes). I think it’s also worth mentioning that Men especially engage in this behavior when in relationships as a means to escape the rigid, macho man ideals placed upon them in society. This could contribute to why so many people in those studies prioritized aegyo in their relationships. It’s appeal goes beyond it’s cutesy front, as you’ve stated.
@@anyone1111 It’s certainly unlike Korea’s (or Japan’s) display of cuteness, but it’s there! Where are you from, if you don’t mind my asking? And honestly, I can relate to that. My household in general is anti-touch/grandiose displays of affection. Although, I don’t know how much of it is a cultural thing or a familial thing. However, I think the newer generation of Americans are making an effort to be more receptive to mental health and gentler ways of human interaction. Along with this comes the cultural differentiation between platonic and romantic affection, and thus it’s become a lot more commonplace to do traditional relationship things with your friends, such as cuddling and holding hands. We have an ongoing meme regarding this, “kiss your homies goodnight”. Because of my upbringing, I find it weird, but heyyyy more power to those who are comfortable with it.
Good point, I agree. All my boyfriends were like this in private, even if their public images were varying levels of tough. I developed quite some aegyo skills and habits over the years as well, even though I would never show it in public.
I'm a neurodivergent dude with social anxiety and depression (I got no idea what's in my neuron spaghetti yet) and I use the whole... "oh, I'm meek and helpless, please do this for me?" routine when I'm running low on spoons. There's times where I prefer to get babied and get through things without having to force myself to power through a literal fight-flight-freeze response, and if I look cute enough someone will inevitably get their protective instinct tripped and help me out. Shout out to all the protective/parent-friend people who feel a need to help the cute meek people, you're at least a third of the reason I'm relatively mentally healthy!
Everytime I see people making videos that begin with "In Indian culture.." or "people in India are very.." I get so stumped because most often than not I am none of those things. Keeping aside the physical traits, Indians are also stereotyped as being open, submissive, welcoming, blah blah blah. This might be true, but it definitely depends on the individual that's hosting you, their economic background, their GEOGRAPHICAL background (in India, people, cultures and sometimes even languages change every 100 miles or so) and also whether you're a foreigner or not. So clubbing a whole country into one perspective, let alone an entire group of countries, is just dismissive and ignorant. And I love how this video talks about Asians themselves internalizing these stereotypes and perpetuating them.
This. Though I am not Indian by blood or by birth, I know of how diverse a country it is. It’s why I’m hasty to draw conclusions about places like India, Indonesia, the Philippines, and pretty much any country in Africa. Edit: Including also, Russia, China
When people start with "I'm Aztec..." this is my exact reaction like no Aztec is a generalization of different tribes not of one specific group of people same as what you are saying.
East Asians are far more alike ancestrally than Indians. Culturally of course there are differences. Westerners especially don't realize how racially mixed and diverse India is. If white Americans visit Northern India they may be surprised to run into a few Indians who look very similar to them in color and facial features!
As an Indian, I wholly get what you're trying to convey here but let's face it, for an average person, it cant ever be practical to correctly identify, differentiate and have knowledge about ALL the vastly vivid cultures of a culturally rich country like India. I don't need mention that this goes for all cultural groups of East Asia or Latin America. Individually they are all composed of perhaps thousands of different cultures, and to be able to have appreciable knowledge about just a few major cultures of these groups would be a hell of a feat. Don't get me wrong here though, it's not my attempt to justify actions of quite a lot of people these days who are unhindered by their own paining ignorance about different cultures and people who grossly generalise masses, I'm trying to convey here that while one absolutely and obviously should not believe in stereotypes and tropes and things like that about different cultures, one should also not expect an average person to be well versed about majority of other foreign cultures. So while many things like clubbing different cultures under one umbrella term are very undesirable, they're unavoidable and are to be expected upto certain extent in the society. So one can't straight up identify somebody else as ignorant or dismissive just because the other person did not have 'adequate knowledge' about different cultures (emphasis on adequate because what is considered to be adequate is purely subjective).
I would say India is the most racially diverse region of the world. The majority cannot be equated with East Asians though. Majority would be "Caucasoids" as they were once known...West Eurasian ancestry. But the country includes all major groups, amazingly. American "racial groups" are just a mess.
as a korean, growing up, that baby talking or talking to sound cute or like in a childish matter (aegyo) is something i always did and never felt weird about it because it's just normal to act cute in korea but as soon as my family moved to america, i always try to avoid doing it whenever there's people in our house (who visits us on a daily basis) because; 1.) they'd find it really pathetic and weird and 2.) some of my american cousins are kpop stans and they once told me to act cute like how idols do it on videos 😭 it's just so weird and was honestly so hard in the first months there but i'm ok with it now. i still act like that sometimes with my family only when there's no one because it's such a hard thing to like explain and discuss to non-koreans 😭 just felt like sharing that because it seems relevant to the video so yeah 😭
I cringe every time someone tries to sound cute or whatever that is. Do they not have any self-pride or respect for themselves to act like such a baby when they are fully grown independent human beings? I expect grown-ups to act mature and speak with confidence in their voice. It's just so cringe I'm never gonna understand what's going on in their mind
@Camellia J dude it has nothing to with misogyny or any of the things you mentioned, it's just a part of culture that has no deeper meaning. You realize men do aegyo too right? It's not even a gendered thing. It's not even dehumanizing, what? You're just making it way more deep than it has to be.... If it were gendered and aegyo was used as a way to make girls seem innocent and pure and stuff then yeah you'd be right(and that does happen alot). But most of the time it's not that.
@@awawus you're turning this is into something way deeper or worse than it actually is. 1)aegyo is something both men and women do to an equal degree, it's not a gendered thing. 2)it's not a matter of self respect or anything, it's just supposed to be like a cute thing(though when overboard it can be cringy even for them). 3) you know how as a joke sometimes you'll look at your friends with an innocent face and puppy eyes to mess with them or get them to do something for them? This is literally that but more so. 4) there's literally studies that show that it is normal or even healthy for 2 people in a relationship to "act like children" in front of each other to lessen the stress of the real world by sharing it with each other..
@@ammarahmed4532 Define acting like children. Do you mean playing games? Because if it's attitude that's kinda weird and would be weird to see two full grown adults acting like that
I think this is interesting because my bf is Korean, and he has expressed that he’s glad kpop has become so popular bc the fetishization of Asian men actually makes him feel more confident in his appearance and culture, whereas when he was a child, he was bullied for it.
it's a double edged sword, on one hand Koreans finally have positive representation in the West, but on the other hand he's a walking fetish for some weird koreaboos that won't see him as a normal human.
opposite scenario but same experience here; I'm half asian and grew up in a verrrry white european region, and grew up with the belief that asianness equalled bullying and never having a chance with boys. Went to uni in a more international bigger city and suddenly every other Asian guy I met was excited to be acquainted, if not blatantly flirting. Of course this was due to the Asian fetishization of whiteness and the fact that my semi-whiteness seemed more attainable to them than a full-on blonde. It's a weird feeling.
i love rina sawayamas song ‘tokyo love hotel’, which is about her struggling to love her culture as a japanese british woman but now seeing everyone else fetishizing it and leaving her with a weird taste in her mouth and conflicted about the outcome… she also points out how now everyone is using japan for their aesthetics and how she is now contributing to the issue by writing ‘just another song about tokyo’… i think its such an interesting message, and she even seems to state that she wants it all back to the way it was because these people dont understand her country like she does
I don't think Rina understands her country as much as she claims she does. Sure, she' a Japanese national on paper. But, she barely spoke any Japanese on her Japanese TV interviews. Japanese language is an integral part of Japanese culture. Even Japanese people see her as a foreigner. Not Japanese.
And who's fault is that? Hers or the people who don't understand what she was trying to say? I really hate this notion that creators need to take responsibility for how their work is recieved, as if the people that consume it have no will of their own and have no responsibility for their own actions.
@@PassionPno i don't understand that just because she didn't japanese in her interviews that means she doesn't understand her country? What an odd thing to say.
"Other countries in the east can be xenophobic, fetishizing and even racist to outside cultures as well" and "a lot of people in the US fetishize Korea and Japan in a way thats very appropriative and disrespectful to the actual cultures and this is bad" are two ideas that can coexist
Exactly, two things can be true at once. In fact they DO. I think it’s more people just not wanting to take accountability for the Fetishization that does exist.
Agree. I absolutely hate it when people use that first point to 'justify' racism towards Asians or silence them from speaking up about their experiences and act as if the latter point doesn't exist as a result of it. As an Asian myself, it frustrates me to no end. Don't get me wrong, racism is very prevalent in the asian community and should be called out more. But when it's done on the basis of disguising hate speech and sneakily spreading bigotry about Asians is when it starts to become problematic.
As someone who's been learning Korean and trying to learn about their culture I've stumbled across many videos akin to these and I cant help but realize that this issue is very very nuanced and not just limited to East Asians, but every minority. Every minority gets their turn in the "spotlight" to appeal to the western superpowers and the self-fetishization of it often goes overlooked and the west is portrayed as "evil" for sexualizing and obsessing over foreign cultures (I'm not saying the west isn't contributing to this issue, it is but it's not the only piece to it) The reality of the issue is that many cultures want to appeal towards the bigger crowd, to make themselves known to the world, of which often leads to them over simplifying or "Yassifying" their own culture. And due to this America and other similar countries gobble it up and accept this one sided idea of a foreign place because it's all that's been shown to them, it's meant to be an introduction to the foreign culture that's easier to process. Of which often leads to American foreigners feeling disgusted by the "objectification" and they're valid in this, but many fail to realize that many of these stereotypes have been paraded around by their own culture and then sold to the West in a compact box for them to understand. But without this beginning process it would be very hard to ever reach a mutual understanding between foreign cultures, so while this isn't favorable at the given moment it could pay off in the long run to help us better understand one another. Overall the issue is not black and white and is instead varying shades of grey, and as brought up in the video it may not be as bad as many portray it and self-fetishization can actually boost ones self confidence and is a way in taking pride in who you are or appreciate another's culture. But it can also lead to feeling gross or upset with yourself over your own identity. Imo I feel as if this is more so the start of an emergence of "Cultural-Sharing/Exchange" rather than appropriation as what has occurred isn't mockery nor dishonoring East Asia(For the most part, their will always be people like Oli London) in fact many are just appreciating the aspects of the culture given to them and enjoying it, it's not coming from a malicious place but more so from a curious place and a want for more fluidity in culture. The further we separate and divide culture the more we tend to dehumanize or discriminate due to the unfamiliarity we have with it, we lack understanding or don't partake in it of which creates a gap between different races. But if we share and commune and enjoy one another's cultures it can create more peace and understanding, it isn't about washing away diversity or uniqueness but more so sharing our humanity and the human culture, showing that we all resonate from a same place in a sense, and making a higher culture we can all be apart of that shows the diversity of humanity.
I'm Portuguese and Latin women in general do something similar as aegyo or kawaii, we call it "making eyes" (think Puss in Boots) to get the same outcome. It's not exclusive to East Asian cultures. There's a form of it in every culture.
Your understanding of Aegyo seems not complete. Aegyo can be done by men. It's not just an action, it's also a characteristic. It's also not always acted. Some of it is innate. If you understand it fully, you'll see aegyo with everyone, including non koreans. It's only when you have a cultural understanding of it you can look for it. There is no way Latin culture has a equivalent. Latin culture has their own mannerism and social customs. But it shouldn't be grouped because in this context, it leads to generalization and appropriation. Let difference be difference.
As someone who grew up in South East Asia, with East Asian heritage, I could say that the idea of "cultural appropriation" does belong to the west. It is true that people(at least in my country) here literally do not care if you want to dress in our traditional dress(we even commodify them lol). There are things that we tend to be more sensitive toward(eg religions), but we aren't that sensitive toward appearances. That being said, I could see why Asian-American would be more sensitive toward these kind of stuff. We are not minorities in our own countries, thus we don't face the kind of struggles you guys do everyday. . Regardless of whether this level of insensitivity/carelessness toward our own culture is good or not, this is what it is.
I agree, cultural appropriation is a very western thing, I can see why they feel that way but I am tired of westerners (especially Americans) forcing their opinion on the rest of the world. For example, some k-pop idols dressed up in traditional clothing of another country one time and all the Americans flooded the comment section saying how racist they were and "stealing other cultures" when there was no malicious intent behind it. I think there is a very big difference between an American white girl wearing box braids and a Korean girl wearing a traditional Thai dress for example. I think cultural appropriation has its place and should be addressed but I never understand why Americans take it so far and get upset over anything and everything and expect other countries to behave the same way they do.
@@Jess-ci8re Yes, I think sometimes westerners kind of take it a bit too far. There are so much westerners(i include all races) talking about Asian cultures, and then dismiss Asians who live in Asia. I am not saying Asian American are not a very real group who deserves to be heard, but i do feel like sometimes you guys just drop people in Asia out of the conversation entirely. At the end of the day, Asian culture originated from Asia, so I think what I say shouldn't be dismissed. (There were occasions where people online told me to mind my business, when they are talking about Asian culture AND i already stated that I am an Asian. They told me that because I didn't think something is "cultural appropriation", while they did.) Culture could be a shared thing too, it is not black and white. Culture doesn't belong to one person. You should be respectful toward all cultures(yours, others), but gatekeeping is just... no. I also hated when people bombard someone's comment with things like "you are appropriating other cultures by wearing their dress". Like, that doesn't help. If it is your culture and they are being disrespectful, tell them politely. Tell them why it's not okay. Shouting at people who only try to APPRECIATE doesn't solve any problem.
@@Jess-ci8re I'm sorry but that's just a silly comparison. Wearing a traditional dress and wearing box braids isn't the same thing regardless of race. But I get your point, I remember when I was into kpop in like 2018 cringing at fans trying to explain CA, a concept that is deeply tied to western culture, to idols who couldn't even understand english. Like ik they mean well but it's so odd to see teenagers trying to scold 20yo adults like they're their little cousins.
perhaps another reason that “self fetishization” occurs among asian americans is a lack of connection to “original” asian culture - in a way, appearance becomes one of the central parts of asian americans’ experience of race/ethnicity/culture and thereby becomes a characteristic component of a novel asian american culture. this is also why cultural caricatures like rice (pretty ubiquitous across Asia, with most depictions relating to East Asian cuisine), anime (from Japan), or boba (from Taiwan) become the only real cultural commodities available to the “azn” community. i think it is possible to have reverence for native asian culture while also understanding asian american culture as being a distinct phenomenon
Yeah, like you still have to remember that original faux-thentic asian-American culture, especially the Chinese one being built on a melding of culture through immigration to the west. It’s separate but it’s not inauthentic.
This is largely because the deeper, intangible parts of a culture (I argue, the more important elements) get wiped away in a few generations. Mindset goes from collectivist to individualist, start thinking about personal rights more than responsibilities to others, start wanting new things instead of preserving the old, etc. The cultural values change. Even humor, sayings, cultural idioms go away. All they have left after 2-3 generations is their food, and family stories. And then that starts to go away too- the children stop learning how to speak the language, cook the food, think in the old way. At a certain point, the people become completely integrated- but they still look different, so they use that as a last hope to be part of the culture. This is Americanization.
I'm so lucky I found a bf who, despite being Japanese, finds (asian and non-asian) girls acting infantile cringe, but then again he was raised in the UK. In any case, it's still true, most Korean boys I've met find this aegyo thing attractive and they often complain that because of the rise of feminism in their country, less and less girls are doing aegyo for them so they don't like the strong female types because they don't do aegyo or act helpless for them anymore.
I'm so disappointed in how some men and even women would call anything even slightly in disagreement with their view about women as feminism (not that it's bad). It's only those basic rights whether minor or major. And if they don't like it, the just start blaming feminism. Wow women aren't our slaves anymore, we can't have them how we want.. therefore it's feminism's fault! Disappointing..
I’m a South Korean bisexual guy, and I find women doing aegyo cringe but I like it when men (and myself when with women) do it. I don’t think aegyo or liking aegyo itself should be a bad thing. The way you present it makes it seem like a simple “female infantilisation” thing, but it has more nuance than that. It’s like what Olivia said; You’re judging it from a Western perspective with no understanding of how it’s actually used within East Asian countries.
@@anomienormie8126 Honestly it's not from a Western perspective on my part, it's on a trauma perspective. My very limited exposure to aegyo reminds me specifically of age regression, I can't say anything about it just that it seems to be the "east" s counter part to the trad wife, just a lot more specific and honest about itself.
As a latina I agree that my way of being “cute” has become a way to pass through uncomfortable situations with men. I don’t know if this is empowering me or not, but it really changes the behaviour and sometimes I feel I battle between not being an “hot latina” vs a “cute Latina “. I wish I there was a middle in between 😫 but I do it unconsciously.
If I had to give my best guess why Asian Americans are a bit more touchy toward cultural appropriation than non Americans it would probably be America's history of actively trying to destroy any immigrant culture. Just one example of many would be when the Chinese immigrants who helped build the railways were simply murdered and their communities burned down. I'd be a bit mad too.
True, then you got the Native Americans who get almost wiped out (at least my Tribe), and now Native culture is popular somewhat (clothing such as moccasins, religious items such as dream catchers, Native symbolism.) This is not to shame, nor say anything wrong about people who like those things, just rather, it's good to understand the backstory and history behind not only the people but the items you're so fond of.
Now they do the opposite. Like when Disney tried to OWN Day of the Dead and had some shenanigans about tattoos/skirt belonging to them because of Moana. Which is why I went into Encanto/TR being critical.
@@PeterPan-xe7qw "native culture is popular somewhat" That's a stretch, maybe a few years ago but that stock has plummeted with the death of the hippies
Stories of similar happening to Irish as well, they'd been a popular 'punching bag' in America for a long time, but that's been largely forgotten about mostly because, lets be real, they're white. You can even add the Scottish in the south, but they managed to form large communities and essentially shelter/protect themselves pretty quickly in comparison, in saying that they were that disliked because of their rowdiness and disregard for authority nobody really tried to stop them. Classism was a huge problem in America's early days, as it was here in the early formation of Australia where there wasn't any regard for the lower class what so ever and treated less than human and many were forced in to slavery for rich individuals and business owners in the colonies, as were the native Aboriginals.
Thanks you. I really liked tour point of view on this issue Being my self a K-pop fan and Korea language learner, some of this questions come frequentou to my mind
I'm half White and half Asian, and I have felt embarrassed being with my parents in public because it feels (and there have been times this has been confirmed) that people think that my parents marriage is also based on a fetish and not love. People have straight up gone to my mother and said they have more money to offer her as if that is the reason why she is with my dad. I think fetishization is degrading, because often there is a lot of racism behind it. I'm not saying you can't have a preference for Asian men/women, but fetishizing is something else entirely.
@@GlitchPredator prefering a race or ethnicity simply bc of the aesthetic, appearance, does not open our eyes to the person. I think being attracted to features like hair, personality, voice, is better than just doing it bc you prefer a black or white or asian man/woman, i doubt i am getting my point across, but I personally see the whole preference thing to be better suited for things like height, or being fat or not.
@@antonellan6794 I partly agree in the case of someone using it as a prerequisite. In the case that I speak of, I mean natural preference that is out of your control. Asin if you like certain noses, maybe some races have plenty of them.
@@GlitchPredator i like to think of it as how the features of the face fall in place together, not just bc one ethnicity or race has a certain type of nose or eye color. i hope that makes sense :) :p
i remember being made fun of when i was a kid for being chinese and korean just because i was different, and then all of a sudden the cultures were embraced and loved and praised in the west. at first, i was happy more people could enjoy my cultures, but pretty soon i realized a lot of what you said in the video happening and felt weirdly grossed out and uncomfortable with myself. i grew up in america and there’s quite a bit of fetishization here unfortunately
there is different type of racism. negative or " positive" both of them are bad. i went through the same. during the 90s and early 00s everyone were so rude to me. calling me bruce lee, ching chong and slurs. but from 2010 to now things changed to them being super obsessed asking about koreans. girls wanting to date me only because i look like a kpop star to them. im from argentina, many argentinians asking me to hook them up with korean girls and is so damn creepy. the awful stereotype of asians being exotic things to own or experience it seems is never going to go away. we went from being the joke to being their object to own or experience.
same, I was the only half-korean kid in a class full of white kids and it was not welcomed at all in the early 2000s felt really weird when all of a sudden everyone flipped the switch and started treating me really well just because I'm asian :/ many interactions with koreaboos who would compliment me just for that
When I was younger, I had little friends because I was Chinese and Korean. But after I grew into highschool and the popularity of Asian culture and anime and stuff, people were a lot nicer than they were before 😢
I'm half Filipina, and grew up in the US. I experience a lot of Asian fetishization growing up in the 2010s that made me want to be seen and stop being seen at the same time. Also, I noticed recently that I don't get the "what are you" question as much anymore but started to get "I wish I was mixed with something 🥺". It makes me feel weird and not want to tell anyone what my background is
I think this is something we do everywhere. I'm Latina and in my country they are either super racist/xenophobic towards foreigners or they make them a fetish/idiolization. In here saying "Europeans stink" or "Chinese people are dirty" or "Arabs are all aggresive" is common. I hate that some people believe ALL of the world's issues are the "white man's fault" when not at all. The same issues exist everywhere. The more we open up to each other and foster curiosity instead of just going from what "we know" which is usually rooted in ignorance the better we will understand each other. My family is from Hungary, from the US, from Mexico, from Australia, from Aruba, and from Venezuela. My eyes are almond shaped and I adore Japanese and Korean culture. I'm a Buddhist, practiced karate, and I'm learning the languages. I don't see them as perfect and I know they have a lot of issues just like my culture and country. It's not all about racism...sometimes it's about ignorance.
You are a Koreaboo. Maybe take an interest in your own culture. Put down those kpop lightsticks and raise your Country's flag. You do know that Asians are highly amused by people like you right?
I have a good quote for you. Arrogance Breeds Ignorance. People will refuse to listen or change their opinion as long as they think they are right. It's why the world will never change
I was adopted from Korea at a very young age, my parents are Italian and Irish and from a young age I knew I looked different as well. As I became older and media started to focus on Asian beauty, (kpop, k dramas, anime, douyin, etc) I finally felt seen. I started to feel proud of my dark brown eyes and the almost pitch black hair I once hated and always wanted to change. But I soon realized, even though I had the features, my heart was different. My mind was different, my values were different. I started to realize how tan I got and I hated it because pale skin in Asia is admired. People have always asked me my whole life where I was from. The people at school, the Chinese ladies at the nail salon, the Korean man at a local store. I’d always say “oh I’m Korean!” but I always felt guilty for saying that because I didn’t feel like I was Korean enough. I definitely feel imposter syndrome but I also feel so very out of place in both sides. I look and feel very different than my family here but I don’t fit in with Koreans that grew up in that culture either. This video really made sense of the feelings I’ve had. Finally my features that had been put down for years in favor of a European beauty standard was being admired and then I saw people who didn’t look like me trying to imitate the features I had that people had once discriminated against and I felt angry. Like a feeling of hey, this is my identity, this body is the only connection I have that’s strong to my roots and if anyone can just look like this, what do I have? I’ve had a very hard time trying to find what place I fit in with. I’m still not sure but thank you for helping me realize why I’ve felt the way I have.
The problem with white people adopting children from other groups is that they don't acknowledge the challenges the adopted child faces in a predominant white society nor do they try to help them stay connected with their culture. I hate that this happens. These parents need to make more of an effort to help adopted children of other races learn and stay connected with their culture to help them embrace their own identity and value.
wow, I can relate to your comment so much. I'm not adopted, but I'm half German and half Indian and was born and grew up in Germany mostly with my German mother, only seeing my dad during holidays. I always felt kinda different from my white classmates in elementary school and kindergarten, especially when people started asking me where I'm from or where my name is from. I always felt kinda guilty saying I'm half Indian because I felt like I didn't deserve to call myself that. Ofc I experienced some different cultural aspects than others whenever I was with my dad and Indian family, but that's only a very small part of my life. Most of the time, I feel like a normal German girl who can't really fit in anywhere and knows nothing about "her culture", whatever that might be. When I saw South Asian girls in media, I first started to finally feel represented and proud in some way, but then again I felt guilty because I was so different from them and I would wish to be more like them. Tbh, I never wanted to look blond or white, as a kid I loved it when people used to compliment my dark long thick hair and my light brown skin (in contrast, it felt weird when I visited India at 9 years old and everyone was complimenting me on my green-blue-gray-ish eyes and European facial features) but I always wanted to fit in, since in Germany I've always been the half Indian girl and in India I was just the German girl (my hopes of fitting in there more were crushed haha). As a result, I've always felt imposter syndrome and the only time when I felt like my differences are good, was when my features were fetishized (my skin, hair and full lips in Germany and my blue eyes, my nose, thin-ish eyebrows etc. in India), because other than that, I am often just seen as an outsider. Today I don't really care about it that much anymore, but it's interesting to think about why I always felt that way.
@@joshina4497 yesyesyes I lived in Germany my whole life and my mum's dad is Indian. But me, my brother and my mom have absolutely no connection to India. We don't speak an Indian language, we've never even been to India and we don't know any of our family except for my grandpa who still lives in Germany but remarried an Indian woman. The only "connection" we have (if you can even call it that) is how we look and Indian food, which is really the only thing my grandpa taught my mum about her heritage. And it feels really weird to be caught between "Indian-but-not-Indian-enough" and "white German girl with no cultural roots outside of europe"
with Italian and Irish I'm guessing you mean Italian-American and Irish-American? (can't tell how far removed they might be from that origin? like did they grow up there? do they live there?)
I'm also adopted from Korea into an American family and felt the exact same!!!! It took me a while to feel comfortable as myself, I completely understand
let's just take a moment to appreciate how well researched this video is. i'm extremely glad to see somone so well spoken and inntellignet give a serious take on this important topic. a good refresher form the heaps of weeabo/koreaboo cringe videos out there. well done
I agree!! I like looking at the comment section for even more perspectives and nuances, but she definitely did a lot of research and shared what she knew very well.
Just found her channel and I really appreciate her well researched videos. My only critique to this video would be, that Edward Said's Orientalism refers to what is known as the "Middle East" & North Africa or the Islamic World, and not about all of Asia.
As someone living in Taiwan, I would say that your understanding of the “cute culture” is mostly correct. It is EXTREMELY important for a lot of people that they are able to do “sagiou 撒嬌 “ We are taught since small that we have to do 撒嬌sometimes in order to get/achieve something or appease someone. A good example is children are asked to act cute to receive a red envelope on Chinese New Year. And this becomes a STRATEGY after we get older. In my country for example, 撒嬌can be a love language or a way to defuse conflict or even ask for something in a less demanding way. 撒嬌works on the bases of “because I showed you this side of me that’s less professional/logical and more embarrassing/childish/likable, you would less likely to refuse me, and would be more willing to make exceptions because you like me more. “ in a way this can be viewed as “acting inferior”. On the other hand, it sometimes is a smart way to get people to like you quicker so you can get what you what. Most of the cases, doing 撒嬌isn’t manipulative. Also it is expected more in intimate relationships or when it comes to someone more superior in standing, age or resource. To my understanding, this expectation comes from the traditional expectation towards women because traditionally men like to feel capable, superior, dependable. The traditional culture actively teaches and constrict women so that they are this way and thus more desirable and cultured. And because children are in nature the receiver of care and dependent on others, gradually women are expected to act the same way because they would like you more. In modern society, the traditional expectations on women sometimes still exist in relationships while a more masculine behavior is expected in workplace and schools. But where there’s people, there’s relationships. So often this is a contradicting state where you have to be passive and aggressive at the same time. So sometimes, 撒嬌is a smart way to fulfill this expectation where we are expected to be weak sometimes, but outside of those times, we get to be intelligent and competitive. As for men, this expectation started expanding onto them due to women’s demands of a more companionate and sensitive partner. And we view 撒嬌as a sign that you are willing to be different from what’s expected by the society and maybe a sign to show that you have the ability to stand on the lower ground instead of always fighting to have the upper hand in a relationship. Also this is partly because women tend to mother those who are cute and dependent. Thus the marketing strategy to portray male idols as cute and sexy at the same time.
I’m glad this came up on my feed, funny these points were what made me not click on your videos because I was thinking “another Asian girl acting cute on TH-cam for simps”. I’m was so wrong and thank you for even making realize my own inherent biases as a Chinese person
I come from a psychology background, where the term “fetishization” was basically just a more extreme form of “objectification”. Everyone wants to be objectified (to a point). Even if you are the rare person who does not want your body to be desired, you want your mental ability or your work ethic to be admired. People want to have something about them that is more valuable than what another person has/is. That is “self-objectification” and is the reason we never will get rid of objectification (because to an extent, we want it). That said, there are limits to the objectification that we want, and we also want our personhood to be what matters most. The complications come in how the limits to our desired objectification are always shifting, and are generally completely unknowable from the outside. This is why society will always have an objectification problem. Then we bring back in the connection to minority cultures (“fetishization”) or really any cultures, and we add another layer of complexity that also escalates conflict because of how loaded the histories and concepts are. What I’m kind of saying is that there is no one possible solution because there is no one stable problem. People want different things at different times. As long as someone “wants to be beautiful” they want to be valued as an object to an extent. We can choose not to give them that desired objectification and only acknowledge their personhood, but that is not generally what they want when they ask “how do I look?”.
It sounds like people want validation and self worth not so much objectivity, in which the former has been a struggle for many young children/ young adults trying fit in or find themselves yet told by society to be a certain way or be rejected. This coming from and Aro/Ace with very little to no sexual drive, I have never seen people as objects and I have never looked at a certain body part or feature as desirable, I'm not blind to beauty either. Do I have pride for my own features yes but that doesnt make me better then anyone, my only desire is to truly be equals to other people as simply another human. I understand equality comes in many forms like maturity or intellect but the difference doesnt make a person more or less. I guess what it boils down to is acceptance of the self, if people accept their features and roots they wouldn't be looking else were but again society as deemed specific features better then others, whatever is the trend
I agree, throughout the whole video the one thing that kept popping up in my mind, was if Fetishization was really the word that should be used to describe what she was discussing. Of course it fits the theme but what she described wasn't as extreme as fetishization but more objectification, which like you mentioned we all do to some extent and won't be stopped anytime soon as it's almost inherit. Also the business side of all it is extremely important.
Honestly, I always thought cultural appropriation was a shifty topic. If I look Asian, being Chinese, for example, I can do Korean makeup and wear a Kimono? A white girl wouldn't be able to, but we probably have the same amount of knowledge about kimonos and korean makeup.
Makeup is makeup, anyone can do whatever style they like lol. Kimonos, as long as they’re worn with respect. Then it’s all cultural appreciation, not appropriation
Japanese people who were born and raised in Japan appreciate it when non-Japanese people wear kimonos. The same goes for South Koreans, Chinese/Vietnamese/Desi… people. Only in the U.S. they‘ve got a problem with it.
Whats the occasion for wearing it tho. I have nothing against kimono but Imo if you wear it, asian or not, to go to Uni or drink a coffee at 4pm in the west, you'll just look stupidly overdressed.
Always found it bizarre that some people extend the definition of fetishisation to cover purely attraction to physical traits. It's not at all fetishisation to be attracted to Asian people because of their eyes or skin etc, its no different to liking blonde hair more than brown. it only becomes fetishisation imo if you are linking to their ethnicity some kind of personality or other traits which you expect to be inherently to them, submissiveness for example.
That's actually a good point. Thinking they're better parnters, more submissive, or have some certain personality particular to them is crossing the lines of fetishization and a preference. It can easily get out of hand when you bring race aspect up like "they're superior, they can produce better kids, etc". Physical traits like eye shape, hair, body shape, smell, skin color can traced to differences in race. Liking certain physical aspects like those is fine imo.
Thank you! As a white guy whose 'type' is Hispanic/black/mixed women I find it annoying have to deal with this "fetishing" accusation. If my type was blondes no one would rush to assume I was fetishing but if I like a Hispanic women based on physical preferences suddenly there are issues. It's exhausting and annoying defending myself against what I see as anti-interracial marriage bs. People from different races can love each other. Get over it.
@@Trilobita98 I mean i’m hispanic and I feel like it’s a bit weird to only look for people of certain races, instead of just being attracted to certain things. bc being hispanic is a culture too.. I’m kinda split on this whole thing becayse I understand prefrences but now im imagining a white person refusing to date a person who isint white and it ends up getting kinda confusing. I think focusing on certain traits not culture makes more sense and is what the original commenter is saying
interesting take. Most Iranians i know don't say "im asian" they say "im iranian/persian" (persian when older) and if asked where it is they usually say "in middle east" and that's as far as it goes. But it really is West Asia. I think it just feels new for people to say it outright now.
I think there is also something else to say about the “East Asian”. I’m Laotian and I feel like I’ve been “othered” by my Chinese and Korean friends at times, more so in high school where they were so obsessed with their ethnicity and the surface level of their culture. I also see it a lot in Korean idol media when there is a Thai member in a group, so at least from my perspective, that only reinforced my conclusions about how the “East Asian” idea being used among Asians.
Agreed! I also feel this way as a Taiwanese person that I’m lumped in with the “East Asia” because of the way I look even though I identify very little with Korean and Japanese cultures (and only partly with Chinese.)
I know that feeling all too well and I'm Laotian too. It's like being an outsider in a way. If you're not one of the cool East Asian ethnicity's its like being invisible. I feel pressured to fit into their beauty standards cause I enjoy being mistaken as East Asian but its also like impostor syndrome
@@luckystarberry i feel you . i was mistaken several times for being fully japanese when i visited japan, and after that encounter and falling into the kpop hole, i was pressured to whiten my skin and look more korean/japanese . it didn't help that the korean wave was absolutely invading skincare and makeup in my country
its genuinely crazy how far people take things, like asian culture is really cool , I agree with that and i’ve been watching anime myself for about 6-7 years now. but to go so far as to act like a different race, its actually mind blowing and honestly a little sad that people can’t accept themselves for the race or ethnicity they already are
same, I genuinely enjoy Asian culture but seeing people going that far, it kinda makes me ashamed for enjoying culture the way I used to in fear of being lumped in the same group as these extremists.
I hope I am wrong, but in 10 years from now this behavior will be encouraged, called race dysmorphia and there will be race transitioning surgeries. There will be an respective LGBT community, just for race
@@serenityssolace i dont dout it. honestly even seems like something that would be encouraged because of capitalism, just as people are encouraged to do plastic surgery for every little thing, it would be very lucrative to put some racial features on the spotlight, make everyone change themselves to look like it, and then change the spotlight to another race. Just like we do with body types now basically
So, I might misunderstand this topic completely, but it's interesting to me and something I came across a few times now on the internet, but I didn't really agree or understand it. It was mainly on Reddit posts where someone was specifically looking for an South East-Asian girlfriend/boyfriend/friends and some people res *ponde* d with comments how this is fetishizing South East-Asians. But at that point I wondered what exactly is the difference between fetishizing and simply having a preference. I got blonde hair and blue eyes, I had plenty of people in my lifetime mention those particular features as something they are interested in, but I only took that as a preference. The same way I like certain looks, hairstyles, behaviors or characteristics more. And I take this "fetish" more as a package deal, either by saying "Yea I like all included" or saying "they cross most of the checklist, so I focus on them".I also understand this to a certain degree: I grew up around a certain type of people and some other people are exotic to me. I wouldn't call this fetishizing and not even a preference, just that there is something special about it that I am not used to, which is also not always positive. I do believe there are definitely people that fetishize certain groups and in an objectifying way, but I don't think this just applies to anyone who looks for someone specific, including same-type people that look within a group they belong to. Saying "Me as a person is not just limited to " is definitely legitimate, but I wonder if this is the right place to use that. Like let's say someone has a particular interest in buff or fit body types, if we take this in the field of dating and not...other things, then I would say no one dates *just* for that, but either as a "has to be included" or "gives big bonus points". Or maybe my actual issue of understanding this might be related to me expecting there is a reasonably high amount of people doing that, so the only way it makes sense to me is to include everyone in this, while in reality this refers to the minor part that "I just want South-East Asian but with this picture I have in my mind and I don't even care if you still breath" type of people. But then I'd wonder if this group is even significant enough to get noticed
Gotta be honest, people in the US really love the image of asian culture but they don't have a clue of what the real culture and their history. Back in mexico, I had a girlfriend from japan and her parents and her used to talk about the pressure and stress that their society puts on everyone. Like working until you literally died, the suicides, or the overwhelming expectation that some parents put on their kids.
Yeah, it is and but that is the reality that no one wants to talk about. Their culture has its ups and downs and its not all what the TV shows you, ya know
I hope the suicide rates come to America lol we have too many stupid people here
@@shaobingboy yeah this guys dumb
Im so tired of hearing this argument. Americans have a culture, but if you’ve lived America your whole life it’s hard to tell what that culture is since you’re so used to it.
@@sinuedavidsilvaescutia4817 I disagree with this take. This is some of the concepts that people who are interested in Japan talk about. There’s a bad trend where people over estimate how uncommon their takes are. You said “ nobody” talks about these things. Those are EXTREMELY common among the Japanophile/Otaku community.
I feel that the jokes on this script have gone a step up, and everything feels like its running more smoothly. Good job on polishing your craft!
She's gained confidence.
that soft power joke 💀
Si
Si
No No
This might sound wierd but when you talked about pleasures of fetishization, I was thinking the reason why some want to be fetishized is because we all crave acceptance. As ethnic people, we wish people would crave our features and see us as beautiful because we grew up pedestalizing white culture and features. As a south Asian, I know other desi girls kinda enjoy it when others see us as exotic and beautiful because it’s better than being seen as nerdy or ugly which are also our stereotypes.
It’s also interesting to hear about those fighting against other fetishes and creating their own categories like Asian BBW in your example. It just goes to show that people are attracted to ALL types of looks and there really is a plethora of looks appealing to the general population.
I agree with this as an indian guy ive sometimes wished that indian culture and looks would be fetishised just so we arent the laughing stock of the world
I’m Ivorian American and tbh I relate to this because at least I’m viewed as desirable that way. I don’t like to admit that, but seeing your comment made me realize it. As problematic as it is to be fetishized, it feels better than being viewed as ugly, undesirable, or the bottom of the barrel.
💯💯💯
@@rickyli0n568 they dont really go hand in hand sadly. lmao look at arabs were fetishized and still looked down upon. all were known for is extremism and wars (that were started by the west lmao but thats a diff topic) while still being sexualized for simply existing. (ex: hijabi p***, theyre sexualized for wanting to be modest. ik muslim doest equal arab but it does in the westerners eyes so it still counts)
@@rickyli0n568 same with me, but I'm middle eastern. We always get the negative stereotypes :/
I am Indonesian, I live in America, have my whole life. I am in high school and all this recent fetishization thing has been really weird kids will ask if I'm Japanese or Korean and when I tell them I'm not they seem to be disappointed, like they only care about me if I was one of the "cool asians"
As an Indonesian, I don't consider myself an Asian at all. I'm just an Oceanian.
Yo I’m Indonesian American too I grew up in Cali 👋I wish more Indos came to live in America as we are a very small Asian minority. I also wish we were more globally famous like Korea and Japan. I’m jealous of these other Asians 😂 I mostly heard people tell me they never see a brown Asian. They say hold up you look Chinese but also Spanish boy😂
@@sasukeshinobi8537 Nope. I don't consider myself an Asian at all. That's like saying that Syrians, Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians and Lebanese are Europeans.
@@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072 the only difference is that Indonesia is literally in Asia..... The middle eastern country don't acclaim to be European because the middle east like Indonesia is also part of Asia.
@@didiqqz Indonesia isn't a part of Asia much like how Middle East isn't a part of Europe.
Europe is separated by Ural and Volga, while Sundaland is separated by Annam, Yunnan-Guizhou and Mekong.
I noticed this trend(?) of defining our culture with physical traits. It puts mixed raced people like me in a tough place. I see mixed people getting yelled at for cultural appropration on Tik Tok to the point of needing to do a "parents reveal" to prove their identity. Not to mention people in the West and East Asia making themselves up to look more and more "mixed." A lot of us suffer rejection from our cultures because we don't look like them, but now they also want to look like us? It's become quite absurd.
I think its due to the fact that non native americans lost their cultural heritage and because of slavery, identified each other based on ,,race,, (even if its is a completly made up concept)
As just your average black person, I've observed something from the sidelines. It seems like at first society was obsessed with the mixed "look" of blacks + whites (blites). Now, society seems obsessed with the mixed "look" of blacks + asians (blasians). I guess mixed ppl will forever be fetishized until mixed becomes the norm
exactly. i'm half asian and live in hk and my whole entire life i had never fit in. i hardly can speak canto or mandarin which sucks because I want to be better at it. But I feel more western compared to asian and always degraded myself for being asian when I was younger because I thought it wasn't good. But now I'm more confident in the rise of more asian popularity. I know, it isn't a good thing. But now I can relate more to my culture a bit more.
I 100% agree! Also the parents reveal thing is the worst.
Personally I’m mixed Caribbean and Asian on my moms side and German and Canadian on my dads, and growing up i mostly celebrated Caribbean culture because that’s where my family is and obviously lived as a Canadian. So naturally I got picked on by white kids for like big hair, my eye shape, arm hair etc , but at the same time, I didn’t look or feel “Caribbean” enough to really understand the reason for my differences.
As a kid this had a big effect and caused me to struggle a lot with having a sense of identity because the only people who didn’t just see me as a funny-looking-probably-white person, were other mixed people or my family.
And then for the beauty standards and media that caused all these issues, to turn around and make it like a trend and fetishize mixed people but also gatekeep not conventionally attractive mixed people out of their own identities with things like the parents reveal is disgusting. And so many of them have this specific image in mind of what someone who is mixed should look like, so people who have more complicated backgrounds are still shunned, and BIPOC’s who have less white heritage are also still left out.
Also a lot of white people who didn’t know the difference thought it was okay for them to make videos like “I’m 5% black” or something or to talk like that, which only makes it harder for people in the middle to open up about their family because they don’t want to seem like one of those people.
Also I want to acknowledge that obviously, depending on how mixed you are and what mix etc, there is the whole question about white privilege, I personally benefit from white privilege and I am not making this to try to undermine the struggles of people who are in danger because of their ethnicity, bc obviously that’s worse. I am just saying this whole being mixed trend is very dehumanizing towards mixed people and the crossfire can be quite harmful.
@@Aritheberry i understand from your point of view. I, I guess are considered to look more white than asian. With my brown hair, big brown eyes and tannish white skin. Western people see me more as an "exotic mix" and asians just see me as mixed. Locals speak to me in cantonese whenever I walk into a shop but of course, I don't know how to communicate with them so I'm put on the spot. I feel so guilty for not engaging in my Chinese side even though I'm surrounded by asian culture in the East.
I wanted to comment on the aegyo thing when you said it's a cultural thing, in the Middle-east it's the opposite, the more cold and mature the woman is; the more she's attractive because she's seen as responsible, and if she acts like a little girl it's a turn off.
It's interesting how different it is in other cultures.
I really like this concept tbh. I feel like the girly aesthetic has been pushed so much by the media that we forget that even women's voices get deeper during puberty. Being an adult also means that you must be skilled and responsible (especially if you plan on becoming a parent) rather than submissive and helpless.
Although I must admit I've seen a few brown men (not only middle eastern but those all the way to Pakistan/India/Bangladesh) that seem to hit on young girls A LOT. In the Mediterranean-Arabic (Turkey, Palestine, Lebanon) countries such a trend is almost non existent but when we move towards the east it becomes a bigger problem...
I think this could be because the type of women who demonstrate this trait survive and those who don't will not in that kind of environment historically speaking.
@@fangzification no its bc being the opposite of aegyo-y in the middle east as a woman is seen as being prideful, valuable and not easy. which is desired in middle eastern countries bc the ideal for women is to be "untouched" .
As middle eastern myself I also like to criticize this concept a bit, most young girls in the middle eastern countries are forced to grow up faster than the boys and take responsibility for house chores, their families and are basically held up as being representatives of the family's pride and honor, which is so unfair and so dangerous the girl would be crucified for exhibiting slight traits of incompetence or immaturity, deeming her as useless
@@estelle6528 as a middle eastern girl myself, i agree very much
can we also just talk about the division between south/south east asian people and east asia? the fact that south asian people are completely excluded from mainstream media and aren't included in other mainstream trends like the recent douyin trends. and also about how south east asian girls on most commonly on platforms like tiktok usually only get praised based off of their looks because they look more east asian? i really agree with your point that the east asian look isn't the standard look. this may be controversial but in my opinion, like by saying that having eyeliner that elongates or largens your eyes is asian fishing puts asian people in a box, it connotes that asian people just have one look. it's what you do wearing the makeup that becomes a problem, like acting cute n shit, that's when it starts to get grey. this is all just part of my opinion as a south east asian person raised in the west, and how i've interpreted everything that's been going on about the mainstream asian culture boom
I feel like a lot of that east-asian specific fetishization too could linked to ideas of white supremacy perpetuated through colonialism and more recently through western media. I know a lot of people try to play it off as the "well it's from the old days if you worked the fields and were poor you were dark" but i feel like thats a cop out for the influence of white supremacy from the west
i agree with you! west asian are also totally forgotten about, and central asians are always 99% of the time left out
yep :( that’s why i specified that really, only korea, japan, and kind of china get this attention. sadly, other asians are not appreciated the same
@Jabari Johnson
*South Asia ( Indian subcontinent) also gets seen just as Bollywood or not even Asian*
Exactly. I'm a Filipino and it pisses me off how the majority of mainstream media in the Philippines is hyperfocused on Korean media and culture. K-pop has been huge here for decades, but the cultural takeover and fetishization has just been ABSOLUTELY INSANE since the 2015s. I hate it and I just see it accelerating for generations to come.
And this is coming from me who has a Korean girlfriend and grew up closely with Korean friends.
as a kpop fan, i see it everywhere. people wanting a korean/asian bf/gf, people using korean words in random sentences (i die inside every time someone does it) and as an asian girl, i experience fetishization bc people are like “ohhh youd be a cute little asian gf” LIKE WGAT
you should be grateful
@@emiz99what are you trying to say here?
@@fuu6ko665 that she should be grateful that she is getting praised just because of her race, its much better than being ridiculed for being a certain race.
@@emiz99Nah being judged for your race either in a positive or negative way is bad because it's just that, a judgement based on the way you look/were born or whatever
@@TeaMollie11 get what ur saying but isn’t being judged in a positive way based solely on your appearance a great advantage?
I was absent the first day of high school but the teacher said my name, the male students were “excited” to have an “Asian” class mate however I am half Mexican and so I look mostly like my mom, the only thing that reminds people of me being Asian IS my name. So when I got there and looked like everybody else well… they were extremely disappointed, and I found myself speaking Chinese to them and “performing” my Asian side for them. Treating myself as a show. I hate that I felt the need to do that, when you were talking about how women have to perform for their partners AND coworkers???? I felt sick to my stomach bro
Dam that's fed up
Well tbf ever since Trump ran in office south Latin countries have had a very bad image magnified. Tried to blame immigrants as the root of the countries problems when thanks to covid it's because of these immigrants working hard on these fields that people can live with food on their tables and give the hard labor jobs to the poor. Then the big boom of the caravan from south countries migrating to the US didt make rhnsh better RIP. As a Hispanic I really wish Mexico or any Latin country wasnt painted as dirty, bad and poor because theres more to it. Mafia doesnt speak for the people (mayhaps the country 😅) and neither does poverty speak for the culture because it really is beautiful culture beautiful lands and wonderful foods.
@@SemekiIzuio I find it ironic how Mexico was resentful on Trumps anti immigration problems because Mexico themselves has a very strong anti-government attitude, especially agaisnt central american and african refugees
So do you live in Mexico? I agree that mexican students will be very amazed if you aren't Mexican, seeing how we do not have a big influx of immigrants of outside culture other than American, when I was in secondary school we got an american girl from indiana, and she stood up like a sore thumb, but it gets to the point of giving too much attention of having those kind of people around that it turns into an awful obsession, my sincere apologies of having to experience that.
Im half Mexican and European and I felt the same way with my Mexican side when I was younger , I always felt the need to “prove” that I was Mexican as a child and it honestly makes me rlly sad bc now that I’m older I realize how much I was hurting myself by doing this
I'm black but like damn, it feels bad to be just a trend. I began wearing my natural hair because I saw how it was venerated in the media, now I feel my hair is frizzy and unmanageable because it's just not trendy anymore. trends just leave the people who've experienced it feel like cheap entertainment for a while, then it goes back to "I don't want to play with you anymore". it felt kinda nice for a while, being black, but now you just figure you're unwanted in society after a trend passes and the general societal consensus is "we don't want you anymore". I don't know, I kind of felt it in the way people talk about travel and stuff. Places in Africa are all just a charity appeal, unless you are lighter skinned or beautiful or something like that. it's just like "Wow, the women are soooo beautiful in *Country X*". The countries that typically don't have black features. It's always loose hair or small noses. But I like myself and I'm proud to be African, I will continue to love representing my country regardless of whether I'm "the in thing" or not. I can't let my experience of life be constantly dictated by Western trends of appeal, who gives a damn. One last quote, if you give people the power to bring you up, you also give them the power to pull you down. Trust in God, stay good, bye!
I don’t have as tight curls as black people tend to have but I certainly feel that. I was constantly told by white women that they loved my hair and it led me to grow it out but as it fell out I got less and less compliments and felt that it was more and more inconvenient. Now I’ve come to appreciate my hair and I wanna say you should love your curls because they’re a part of the cultures we have. There are hairstyles and hair are for it that I feel help me tap into my individuality instead of just another brown person in the eyes of Americans. Sorry if I don’t make sense throughout😅
thank you so much for this. people don't understand this and i relate to what you've said. It's nice to hear someone outside of my family talk about it.
I really appreciate your take on this as a fellow African. A lot of black women hate their natural hair because of colonialist mentalities, but joined the natural hair "movement" as a trend. After a the craze died down, they're back to hating their hair and calling it "unmanageable" or "nappy". Let's not even get started on the wig craze (kinda funny how the wigs they love are always Caucasian hair and never kinky hair). All this is only hurting the black community, as it leaves us hating our hair and buying the Western view of it.
I love my hair and I'm grateful that more women are getting to love it too. I just really wish that all the Western influences die out and people of all races can be who they truly are, not some b-grade white wannabes
@@abigailokoiobuli8945 I agree, genetic diversity is what lead to better odds of survival and is a part of life. We should chase one way of life because that easier to wipe out. In the same way we should choose one standard because realistically that’s just not feasible even if the sandard wasn’t unhealthy
lol imagine doing things just because they're trends
"Many white passing wasians feel less Asian than Asian passing wasians, even if their connection to their Asian roots are the same."
This was just a small line in a much larger point but it meant a lot to hear, thank you
as i white passing asian i agree
LITERALLY how i feel
Same here, that line hit too hard
I live in Thailand am half Mongolian but am white passing.. it’s so hard cuz ur not being treated the same as others.
Also non white passing wasians feel less asian too. When I was a kid everyone made jokes that I was actually indigenous. When I was 8 a lady stopped me in the street and asked me “ you know what disney princess you look like? “ and I sai “Mulan”. She replied “ No its pocahontas!” That made me so sad. Also in my japanese school everyone would have that very white skin and my dad is a more yellow/ orange tone( that ressembles indigenous) so I stood out and felt different, my mom beeing white didnt gave me a color , just made my eyes look less like my fathers, just more racially ambiguous
Edit: I went to doctor today and she said “ I barely have an indigenous client! “ 🥲
Edit2: guys read stuart hall’s book on identity crisis, its guuuud👍 hes an immigrant philosopher and talks about cultural identity translation between nations
I met a japanese man once who lives in the periphery of japan and he told me that there is kind of a "tokyo kioto bubble" that is the stereotypical representation of japan while most of the people are just living in an ordinary towns.
After visiting Hokkaido, I can 100% confirm. Tokyo and Kioto definitely put a lot of emphasis on creating the "perceived culture" the West thinks of Japan having. Not everywhere, but anywhere tour guides will take you and the surrounding areas are all built for the westerners, not the locals.
If you leave the main cities, study up on your Japanese because they don't (nor should they have to) hold your hand out there. (This is from over a decade ago, though so things might have changed)
@@XxStrawberryxJellyxX
It's no just for the external image. You'll find enough cultural centers in Western contries as well which firmly believe they represent their whole nation and the rest are basically hillbillies.
@@Alias_Anybodylabeling the rest of America as hillbillies just adds to the ignorance as if America is just ‘city mouse vs country mouse’. America has a variety of geography, ethnic groups, societal expectations etc. Even values differ from county to county and state to state. It’s not the Wild West vs the big apple 🤦♀️
@@dongysakura418
You really didn't understand my comment.
@@Alias_Anybody you’re right. I misread your comment. But I don’t think that those cultural centers believe they represent the whole nation. Any resident living in that country knows that. It a stereotype that is internalize by tourists and foreigners but not the locals
I more than “tolerated” this video 💕
Glad your videos showed up in my recommended
NO WAY i feel blessed by your presence hahaha
@@oliSUNvia 💕💕💕
your vids are fantastic 🌹
Two queens collide
two of my faves omg
I would 100% watch a collab 🤩
As popular as BTS, blackpink, and other kpop groups have gotten in the modern western countries, I think a lot of people forget how influental PSY was to crossing the barrier between western and eastern pop culture. Aside from anime(which keep in mind wasn't exactly a cool thing to be a fan of in 2012), Gangnam stye, as much of a meme as it became, was most peoples first introduction to modern east asian media.
I agree Psy definitely deserves credit for introducing Korean media to the West, as well as introducing East Asian pop music... but not East Asian media in general. Even before the anime boom (e.g. Pokemon, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, etc.), Hong Kong action cinema had produced international stars like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, John Woo, Jet Li, Zhang Ziyi, Michelle Yeoh, Sammo Hung, and Chow Yun Fat. There were also Japanese video games (though most people didn't know they were Japanese until the anime boom).
What Psy achieved was two-fold:
1. Bringing over K-pop to the West. By doing so, this opened the floodgates to Korean media in general. Westerners became interested in other K-pop acts as well as Korean movies and shows.
2. Bringing East Asian pop music to the West. Previously, Westerners were only familiar with Japanese soundtrack music, through anime and video games, while J-pop and K-pop were unknown in the West. But with Psy, he brought K-pop over to the West, exposing most Westerners to East Asian pop music for the first time.
king
True that’s the first song I’ve heard
I think every good and bad thing about this related to the internet growth, theres already proto weebs back in the 80s japanese idol golden era but mostly are in moderation
@@dewaeryadi7776 Honestly so your right about this but it’s a little irrelevant to your topic- but anime popularity in the west definitely stems off when the pandemic and everybody was inside their homes. And honestly there’s nothing more binge able then anime. It’s what I believe really introduced it because before that I couldn’t find much people who knew what it was or knew what was before covid.
As an Asian woman living in Asia, I have many thoughts on this. Not all Asian women are the same of course, so my opinion is just my own. Aegyo/kawaii/sajiao is not inherently about women. Eastern culture has always balanced femininity and masculinity in all people. Men need to act cute as well, be it to their partners, or if they are a server at work, when apologizing, when talking to children, etc. tough to the strong and gentle to the weak. It’s cultural significance is rooted in knowing when to be soft and knowing when to be hard, ie. Yin and Yang. Many Chinese families are also matriarchies, where the whole family revolves around the mother, so women, like men, also need to know when to be hard and when to be soft. It’s not as black and white as it is in America. Many women like “feminine” boys here, but we don’t consider them “feminine”, as this is an inherently negative term in English. It isn’t negative in Asia for a man to have balance and security of their softness. Ancient times, a man is to provide, write poetry, do art, music and martial arts. A mixture of soft and hard. There’s many layers to what defines a man in asia.
Also, I’ve noticed (maybe I am wrong) but a lot of Asian American girls seem to overly sexualize themselves for white validation. It almost feels like they are aware that they are exotic, so in order to get attention, they will exaggerate their eyeliners to be very “asiany” and dress very revealing to allure attention. This is often used under the guise of “western liberation and freedom” however I find it somewhat more oppressive if I am to be honest. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Great video
You described it very well
No way you're in Asia; what is this english.
"What is your English/how your English so good"
That western conception of femininity/masculinity towards Asian ppl kind of lead to homophobia and xenophobia too, I guess. I often hear ppl calling Asian men "f*ggot" or saying that "you can't even know who is women and who is men". And this coming from the country with the largest Asian population outside of Asia. It's like we learned nothing.
@@abackupaccount8898 lmao "there's no way for a person from asia to have good english" 🤓🤓🤓
@@abackupaccount8898 could be from singapore, philippines, hongkong.. i dunno, former Anglo colonies??
I’m Thai but lived in the US most of my life. Being Thai comes with having an ungodly difficult to pronounce last names and more letters than needed. I used to hate my last name until I realized I’m one of the only people in the world with that last name. Be proud of your heritage because no matter how much you’re made fun of or bullied, they can’t take what makes you… you, away…
Being Thai must be hard. I mean its literally the Sex Capital of the world. Feels so cucked.
This makes me remember a story : When I was in high-school, the BTS train was full, everyone (especially girls) were full on hyped (I have asian features because my ancestors are from Vietnam) and I used to be called racial slurs when I was young but because of it, the trend, anything you want to call it, I was now found appealling, I hated it because people didn't liked me because of who I was but because of tokens like "I have an asian friend" like bruh can't you just have a friend ?
Another story is that, there was that guy who's parents where filipino but he pretended to be korrean at school and once his girlfriend found out he wasn't korean she broke up with him
like wtf
I don't know who is more stupid, the guy pretending being Korean or the girl that broke up with him because he lied.
I just laughed so much after reading that second story lmao
@@Kayrayellow22
Same XD
@Nguyễn Khoa Nam
True, Ho Chi Ming is the ultimate badass
I hope he would've lived long enough to see his Country win the War
@Nguyễn Khoa Nam they're just salty lmfao
I'm an east asian (Chinese-Malay) who lives in Germany and I think a lot about self-fetishization, but I haven't have a word for that. In the last year where korean media became more popular I realize I wanted to look like most of the men you see in korean media. I cut my hair like k-drama characters and I also dress like one as well. And honest it gives me confidence, because I get a lot of compliments for my looks but also I have the feeling kinda reinforce that I dress like a "media version" of a korean person (And it also doesn't help that I'm not korean). But on the otherside it kinda helped me to accept myself, because I used to hate myself being east-asian. But on the otherside I also always question myself if Korean Popculture isn't that popular here in the west, would I really dress myself like a K-Drama character?
Anyway great video! It really helps me to sort my thought and feelings about this topic!
maybe k drama guys are just dressed well?
@@wiredvibe1678 that’s not his point. It’s that if Korean culture wasn’t popular, he might not feel the need to imitate it.
@@phoebesekine4783 the revelation here is popular things are popular? the answer to his question is "probably not."
@@wiredvibe1678 I mean yeah it can be because it looks good. But sometimes things in life aren‘t just simple and it is more complex. I like to be more critical of my actions and think about what consequences my actions will have on other people (like why I like to dress myself like that? Is there a deeper meaning just looking good) and that‘s why I ask myself these questions and I‘m sure a lot of people are like me and think more critical of our actions
I guess this is an issue for the east Asian diaspora. A Japanese living in japan would obviously take inspirations from Japanese well-dressed celebs. Same for Koreans etc. There is no self fetishization going on there.
I showed my mom this video, she’s Filipino and she just looks at me and asks why these people are so miserable that they want to act like a different race and I fuckin spat out my water from the sheer facts she was spittin
Truth
W mom
@Kevin Davis you completely missed the message of the comment and the vid. But whatever, you do you.
@@gawdawful2742 filipino aren’t asian, no body how much they claim they are lol
based
The photo card took me OUT omg?? Tysm for the vid, I love ur video essays so much
self fetishization of east asian countries was something i was aware of but tbh i think every country/race/etc gets fetishized by at least one other culture/country/etc, and i dont think it will ever stop.
From the elegant french girls and their accents with views to tower eiffel while eating baggettes in a caffe, to the cute and proper british boys who are always nice and have a funny accent (popular during the 1D era), the fetishization of black skin and aave by celebreties in america, the sexualization of brazilian women who have strong tan lines and no body hair at all while dancing samba on a beach. There are thousands of examples, it's everywhere really.
yes but are whites benefit from said stereotypes unlike minorities. black people at least dont have white people be racist to tjeir face unlike east and southeast asians
In Japan in particular, white girls were (and still are to some extent) fetishized, at least in the medias and in animes. I don't see the issue tbh, Americans like to invent problems with societal themes.
very true.. I guess it just happens so much to east asian. But really every race can be fetishized, anything can
As a mexican, yes. Sadly I have witness how some americans see latin woman as sexually "exotic" with "tropical" waists. The worst of all is that they tend to target younger woman to the point of looking after teens. Having a darker skin doesn't make us "exotic', Kal.
The "cool thing" about brazilian fetishization is that it don't differs from East Asian self-fetishization. The Brazilian ministry of tourism are the ones guilty of this perception of us, brazilian women, as some kind of exotic thicc native. That obviously came from European colonization, when native women were interpreted as "sexually free" bc they walked around with no clothes. This idea got really fixed on our culture, to an extent that the ministry of tourism promoted the "sexual tourism" and the image of the "brown beauty big-booty and no body hair" women as some kind of motivation to outside men with the dirty colonialist mentality to came to Brazil and save the poor and innocent natives.
As an enjoyer of kpop, I totally agree with the dangers of learning about a country’s culture based purely on highly-controlled, perfected media. It’s important to take everything you see on the internet with a pinch of salt and remind yourself of the motive behind the content.
yes id recommend everybody really interested in a culture to study the language and live there for a while. then you take it in with all the negatives and realise what you had so far was just a superficial vision distilled through a pop cultural lens. i enjoy exports east asia just because some of them are a breath of fresh air in a pretty homogeneous western space (thanks to us imperialism lol). but it is really funny how east asia becomes a disneyland for millennials and zoomers. wonder how long it will take before globalism and the internet will turn all this into another homogeneous mass like we have in the western world and what role china will play in all that.
@@lostintechnology1851 Yes, if you enjoy anime, Kpop, general Tsos, whatever, don't worry about it. Consume it any way you like and don't let these overeducated ding-a-lings get to you with their Marxist yappings about "colonialism", and "fetishization". Its a lot of garbage not worth your time.
You aren't the problem, your culture isn't the problem, the West isn't the problem, even Eastern cultures aren't the problem. Its the personalities of these malcontents that are the problem. They're not emotionally healthy. They're mostly Asians who're unhappy because they don't get to do what they want in life.
They studied the social sciences, so now they're brainwashed by the far left. Shakespeare's 'Julius Caesar' contains the line, "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings" Wise words worth remembering.
The fucking irony in that comment is so fucking hilarious. Everyone literally gets the impression of American Culture from highly controlled, perfected media and shit youtube channels.
_"enjoyer"_ of K-pop lmao
I joked with a family friend from Zimbabwe that if someone only watched black panther they would think theirs an actual country of wakanda.
The term “pick me girl” is also misused a lot. Any asian person in western countries doing aeygo/sajiao or being kawaii would be accused of being a “pick me”.
The definition of a “Pick me girl” refers to a girl who acts/says misogynistic things to get male validation.
Acting “cute” isn’t just being done to males, it could be a girl to a girl, girl to their parents, moms to their daughters or sliblings to silblings. People act cute for different reasons, whether to get something from them or simply to be cute.
I often question how a term used to describe a misogynistic woman has been turned into a misogynistic phase. We are really out here doing everything to degrade woman.
More like when a woman is speaking against the popular narrative she would be labelled as "pick me".
I think that's a better definition.
@@ILovePink-x1v now if u have a different opinion u are called a pick me lol
I just got here after watching zoeunlimited's video on this topic. You should totally watch it!
@@ILovePink-x1v probably women trying to one up each other
I’m currently working on my senior project at a 4-year university, and I’ve opted to research western culture’s impact on eastern traditions. This video has been incredibly insightful and beneficial. Thank you very much!
How did it turn out?
@@lukeschwartz4396 I’m 97% done but man I’ve come to have such a huge appreciation for Asian (non-American) culture. I have a much higher level of respect knowing the hardships fought by the Asian community trying to carve out their own place in America and have a better understanding as to why the conduct themselves the way they do. I’m so gald I did this
In a similar note, a good amount of black men in the US tend to fetishize themselves also because nonblack women see them as hypermasculine protectors who are 'gifted' in some areas. They feel rewarded by these stereotypes in their relationships until those same stereotypes lead to racial prejudice in their lives.
Btw this is also in part why I think black men are less likely to defend black women as well, their internalized racism teaches them that, since being black is "inherently masculine", black women must be less feminine than other women or as they say too 'loud' and 'ghetto' and 'aggressive' (I also think this is why black women and asian men used to be found as least desirable by some dating studies, because internalized racist stereotypes thought asian men were too "soft" for women and black women were too "aggressive" for men)
Huh?
@@lauren578 what's confusing?
I think I read some black dude claiming jesus was black and we originated from the south therefore we were black first lmao. I will not deny our origins was from the south perhaps and that people migrated and changed through the environment but to say jesus was black is another thing. If it's true we originated from the south then there was no skin color but one for everyone there was no other to label or differentiate. Anyways they got a little more crazy when they said thats why their dick was bigger. So nah what an incel. Black men and women come in all size thin or thick tall or short just like and other culture
You're spot on. I see people embracing the stereotypes that make them feel good in certain contexts. But this very reason is why people often behave defensively against African-descended people. White people who only know blacks from NBA and NFL and hiphop videos can't help but see them as hypermasculine "others" to hide his kids and wife from. Dangerous game.
You know, that's exactly the issue with "latino" identity. I find it bewildering that people seem to think I, a Guatemalan, have anything in common with a Colombian, or a Puerto Rican, or an Argentine or even a Costa Rican. Like, sure, we speak Spanish, but it's not really a common identity, since our cultures and ethnicities are just so varied. I've found this specially bad in second or third generation "Latino in North America" families, which I find quite interesting.
i have similar issues as a south asian with the “aapi” identity, while there is a time and place to address asian-americans, its important to understand that we are not the same race, our features are phenotypically different therefore we get treated differently. For example, as they were saying in the video of how eastern asian women and girls are fetishized for being “cute and innocent” it has been the exact opposite for me as a south asian girl, constantly have been seen as more masculine, hairy, over-sexualized, and if i step out of line, im “aggressive”. Yes we are from the same continent but we have separate experiences and separate cultures
We used to have words that more accurately represented the differences between people in Latin America, it was the caste system and it was the most racist institution ever created. I agree the word "latino" doesn't mean anything but we used to obsess so much about these differences and invoked so much tribalism in the name of them that I just think it's better to forget about it and accept a word that doesn't mean anything.
For real where I live (Canada) everyone thinks we all have the same culture (they even have the audacity to compare Spaniards with other latinos) not just Canadians do these but immigrants from other countries do it too. I’ve met people who were obsessed with Cuban culture and for some reason they expected me (Salvadoran) to act “Cuban”, we don’t even have the same culture at all. The language is the only similar thing (not even that because most of the times I don’t understand Cubans and viceversa, they use too many unique words). Tbh other countries in Latin America even have different words, whenever I speak Spanish with someone from another country we constantly have to ask what do the words mean. But ignorance is found everywhere in the globe I suppose. Latinos call everyone “chinito” so it goes both ways.
That's the same with the term "middle eastern". Iranians, Turks and Arabs speak very different languages, they don't even belong to the same language families. They come from completely different historical backgrounds and the cultures, the politics, the economy is completely different. Yet in the west they're like, yea you all look the same.
Let's not even talk about how different Arab countries are!! They stretch from the Atlantic ocean to the Indian ocean with completely different cultures, politics and economies. It's ridiculous to assume that "Arab countries" are this one thing.
@@Suyai- not how it works also the word Chicano exists for a reason
Its funny how the east asians feel conected by their looks, and here in Brazil there is no one that "looks brazilian" but we are pretty good at knowing where people are from because of their accents
fax lmao
In Chile is the same hahaha, there isn't really a chilean look, but you can tell from which part they are from the way they speak and act.
i think this can apply to any country and their culture because, while i agree that brazillians look drastically different from each other, as an american-brazilian ive had a lot of native brazilians tell me that i don't "look" or "act" brazilian enough so i also have this self-identity crisis and feel better about myself when i talk and dress more like brazilians do :/
@@Sarah.lux. Im curious!! Did you feel the identity-crisis thing or the need to “prove” your “brazilianness” that op was talking about even though you were born there?
as a native, having to "prove your brazilianness" is such a foreign concept to me, i never even considered it before, and i don't personally think u should have to change yourself for anyone, but i'll stress it again: my opinion.
This fascinates me as a black woman. Because even though we’re also fetishized, it’s in a different way. Almost a dirty way. It’s like they fetishized our pain rather than our actual culture. Like the white lady who joined the NAACP in black face. People usually fetishize black women, or want to be one, when they’re going for a domineering, ultra sexual presentation. But they completely miss the slender body type a lot of black women have that was popular in ancient Egypt. It’s odd how some people associate all East Asian women with being cute and child-like, yet all black women (and maybe other dark skinned women) as a strong, maybe even hostile, ultra-adult sex symbol. Even young black kids, especially our girls, go through adultification from day one. It’s why people usually are prone to anger or abuse with dark skinned children…sometimes worse.
lol no cope, black people say either people hate and dont like them or they want to be just like blacks choose one both cant be true at the same time and ancient egypt was never a black country it was multicultural and had basically all of the old world living in it and its funny how you pick and choose what country you want to represent you like why didnt you say Liberian body types or south african
It’s a different kind of fetishization but unfortunately this always leads to racism and violence. Asian women are seen as submissive, child-like and are murdered, Black women are seen as masculine, “tainted,” and are murdered.
@YOYO-xy3yg Two things can definitely be true at once, I don't know who told you otherwise. But black women are subject to adultification and hyper-sexualization, both historically and statistically so. I believe OP is referring to the dichotomous relationship between the masculinization of black women and simultaneous tendency to praise the traits that society deems "acceptable". Just like how black men are simultaneously lauded for their ability to be talented and strong (particularly with sports and music), yet demonized for their "aggressive and violent nature". Just like how Asian people are simultaneously "smart, independent , and well-mannered", yet also dehumanized and deemed "child-like" and "submissive" in nature. Also, P.S. it doesn't matter that Egypt is multicultural lmao. Africa is a big ass continent with many multicultural regions, so the point OP made remains unchanged.
@@VegaTakeOver
Exactly
@@elizam.8710
It was never black though.
As an african born and grown up in Africa, I can say to everyone:
Africa is definitely not a country
This video was awesome btw
Indeed. Africa is a large continent with a potentially larger degree of regional variation than Eurasia.
Yes and Africa is full of gold, gems and riches from the start of time
@ANTZ! mostly americans and canadians
@@Yaro2 you say africa first thing they think is a big tribe of people who cant find water
@@Yaro2 uh huh.. do go on and while you do i'll say you think that jewish people only live in Israel also with no evidence
I'm Vietnamese and Chinese and back then Asian guys were seen as undesirable towards girls even some Asian girls too. They made fun of my baby face features and how I look like a kid. Now today people would call me cute and tell me i look like Luhan. and it went from "you look good for an asian" to "I like you because you're asian". It's a shame but please like us for the culture as well. I hate that myself has experienced fetishzation even for a guy. But anyways please like us for the culture too. 🙏
not to mention there's still that old-asian slanted eyes derogatory depiction that was popular with the western old-heads.
How the turntables
The baby face comments never stop though tbh. The other day someone told me I have the body of a 25 year old(cuz I’m 6’4”) and the face of a 5 year old 🥲
My friend, even when people like you for your culture, there will always be toxic people that will claim liking your culture is fetishizing your culture. You can't escape people blaming others just because they are jealous/miserable. If a girl wants to get to know you better, treats you nice and with respect and is interested in your personally, then you wouldn't need anything else. Search for someone like that. Best of luck
@@jcp5302 I personally am a fan of the baby face. Haha
was talking to a friend about your channel and she said
"i'm so jealous of how articulate she is!" and I totally agree
RIGHT
thats what happens when you do your own research lol there's no need to be jealous and plenty of information out there to explore (;
She is a Philosophy major after all.
Be careful my man. Twitter has deemed praises like that as racism, now.
@@brunoverasferreira6263 depends
영어 발음도 너무 좋고 영어 자막도 있고 학술 논문에서 따오는 거라 적당히 난이도도 있고 영어공부 하기 너무좋아서 영상 계속 보고 있음
Good Luck
👍
As a Japanese man living in Japan, this video helped me a lot to see what is called ''Japanese culture'' in a different perspective.
I've been having difficulties to find elements making me feel ''I'm Japanese''. At least I think it's cool that Japanese anime, food, and ''traditional culture'' have spread all over the world and they are being enjoyed by many people, but not in those things do I find something important shaping me as a Japanese person at its core. Maybe it's just I'm ignorant, but I somewhat understand the reason behind my detachment from ''Japanese culture'' knowing it's been basicallly produced with intentions to be consumed.
I like that you deconstruct pop culture from academic perspectives!!
I am not speaking for myself, but a lot of people living in Western culture believe that they have no culture. Sometimes it is not obvious when you stay in the same place all of the time, with the same people all of the time. Have you travelled outside of Japan? When I spend a long time with my southeast Asian family, I am reminded that my American culture encompasses lots things that I take for granted, like air conditioning, or comfy sofas even.
agreed with other poster! as the opposite perspective, as an American who has consumed a good bit of anime and manga and visited Japan - the food and "traditional culture" were novel and pleasant, for sure, but there are SO MANY things that differ and can be taken for granted. it felt quite bizarre experiencing how formal/polite basic interactions are, even knowing what that "looked like" from media, but I have to imagine it's even stranger growing up with that and then experiencing its absence.
"the reason behind my detachment from 'Japanese culture' knowing it's been basically produced with intentions to be consumed" DAMNN, u spittin. this is so enlightening and kind of disheartening. impeccable english btw omg
Maybe you struggle because in the end we're all people inside, when stripped off of our traditional clothings and cuisines. I don't feel like initially kimonos or udon were created just to be consumed by western culture. Imagine, people from overseas suddenly lose all interest in Japan - will it stop people in Japan from drawing manga, holding summer festivals in shrines or being polite to each other?..
Capitalism, the culture of putting all your focus on work and then barely time for anything else strips individuals of culture. Because even in non western countries we copy their way of life (like everyone wearing jeans and similar clothes instead of traditional so we become detached to our own culture. In order to feel it you need to partake but if the only thing you're partaking in is consumerism ofc you will feel lack of culture. Consumerism and capitalism isn't culture. A lot of countries are becoming westernized and the influence of western media and it's consumption is not helping.
As a black guy I can fully sympathise with this sentiment. This is all too similar to how black culture was fetishised back in the 90s and 00s and whilst there’s nothing wrong with taking part in it and enjoying it there’s just a moral line that people shouldn’t cross. People like to glorify things like gang violence, drug dealing and drill but don’t realise that these things stem from things that are wrong within black culture. And it’s funny how we did it to ourselves and still do which ropes many other people into doing the same but only then do we as a community have a problem with it. Don’t get me started on things such as dreadlocs and cornrows. It seems it’s an issue that will always be around in society as long as there are lines to be crossed and East Asian culture is “having their turn” so to speak.
I also find that features (especially on darker skinned people) like big lips, curvier bodies, and bigger eyebrows were considered ugly or manly until lighter skinned (or in this case simply white people) made it a fashion trend.
It appears that it’s literally the exact same thing but happening to Asian people, I remember when people use to make fun of Asian eyes, thin eyebrows, or their skin tone, but now white people (and obviously I know any race can do this, I’m simply pointing it out in white people because it seems to apply to them more) are trying to copy it.
@@nial5420 because that shit happens in countries that are predominantly white. Are you being dense on purpose
@@nial5420 I think it’s viewed as a negative thing because it’s done as a trend. For example, in the early 90s and 2000s being seen as thick was criticized over and over in the media, especially in movies. Because white people or lighter skinned people are seen with thicker bodies, it feels weird because poc went through years of critique for naturally being born that way and now it feels like people are just doing it for a costume. Look at the many women getting BBL’s and all types of surgeries to look curvy or the wave of white people wanting ethnically ambiguous children. You could argue there’s a social acceptance for this change (which is definitely there, I’m glad all body types are being represented) but I also can’t deny how it harms the people who were born that way and were alive to see the shift. It’s like wearing braids or locs. So many black children are sent back home from school because the hairstyle is deemed “unprofessional” but a white woman does it and she’s praised for being different. For some people it might not be a conscious thing but the fact that it happens constantly and is always viewed in the media definitely is weird to me. There’s this thing of non-white people wanting to pick and choose parts of various cultures to look and feel different without actually bothering to understand what they go through because they know they’ll always be socially accepted. I’m not trying to argue with you btw it’s just a bunch of stuff I’ve observed with society and social media definitely does not help
@@nial5420
TD;LR: I know a wrote a lot but I’m basically explaining the historical and modern aspects of why I specifically point out white people.
And also might I just add, going through your comment again, I can’t tell you how much the “wider hips = fertility” line disgusts me, I have wider hips as a trans guy and it’s always been an insecurity of mine, I can assure you there’s rarely any biological advantage, and in modern times nobody looks at wide hips and thinks “Yeah They’re TotaLlY Hot Because They ProViDe MoRe RoOM” that’s just not a realistic statement. Maybe 500 years ago, but nowadays that’s not the defining factor for the beauty standards.
Which is another topic I go over in my essay of a comment.
If you feel offended by this as white person, then you must also engage in this, because if you’re a white person that doesn’t do that then the comment wasn’t directed towards you.
I said time and time again that it wasn’t JUST white people, but from my experience, especially considering the history behind black features and the way they were perceived, white people are the general race of people that do this. We generalize them because ITS pretty much ALWAYS THEM. And I’m saying this as a mostly white person.
Firstly, let’s talk about the history of the beauty standard, more specifically black features vs white features.
During the time era where slavery had ended, and black people were finally migrating into the average white persons world (with the obvious fact that they faced oppression on several levels) there was still obviously a beauty standard. At the time, especially during the late 1800’s, early 1900’s being thinner, leaner, with smaller and more petite features, straight and brushed hair, little to no body hair, and light skin, we’re seen as beautiful, elegant, and feminine. These traits followed the white woman, and even man’s average genetic makeup. Whereas a black person, especially black women, who had nappy hair, (natural black hair) bigger or wider noses, big lips, curvier bodies, broader bones, tall builds, bushy eyebrows, more body hair, and obviously darker skin was perceived as ugly, unhygienic, and masculine.
This difference in the beauty standard brainwashed or straight up coerced black women to look a certain way and mimic white womens looks. It was seen as desirable to be naturally light skinned, black women would constantly wear wigs, or straighten their hair, and constantly copy fashion trends or beauty hacks to appear more like a white woman.
You may think that this was a long time ago and doesn’t affect modern society, but that’s not true at all. We see these beauty standards and obvious racism continue to spread even in modern America.
Even AFTER black people started creating their own culture, people (especially white people) continued to find a way to infiltrate this and make it about them. From clothes, to features, music styles, and especially hair styles.
My point is, is that the obvious contrast between a black person being perceived as ugly because of theyre features, and a white person or at the very least light skinned person being perceived as unique or beautiful because of having similar features is bizarre.
And the fact that black women are constantly being judged for being heavier, fatter, and saggier, but when a white woman is curvy, it then becomes a trend. (It use to be a trend to get tanned, and have bronze skin, but that was only after white women were doing it)
Just notice how bushy and big eyebrows, big lips, curvier bodies, and at one point darker skin was perceived as beautiful so long as it was on white woman or a lighter skinned woman is enough proof in itself. The fact of the matter is that white people were and still are the dominant race in America, and that influences a lot of things.
Secondly, this can be tied to how Asian people are perceived, 9/10 times when I see a person fetishizing or trying to copy another races features, culture, and clothing/hair styles, it’s a white person. And this probably has something to do with every other race having some distinct feature, like wider button noses, larger lips, unique skin tones, or other distinct genetic racial differences, whereas white peoples features are now seen as basic or boring.
I know several people, none of which are white, (usually black friends of mine) that want light and paler skin, like Asian or white people. I know several white people that want Asian eyes, curvier bodies, or big lips. I know several Hispanic people that want less body hair, smaller bodies, or lighter skin.
The fact is, I KNOW this doesn’t just apply to white people, but what I’m trying to say is that time and time again, it seems to ONLY be white people that popularize these features.
Once a white or light skinned celebrity or model makes that distinct racial feature a trend, IT becomes a trend.
Even I, as a biracial person, am seen as lucky because I get to have black features without having black skin, or the black bone structure, or anything of that sort. My own (white) mom said she wanted to have me because she thinks mixed babies are cuter then white or black babies.
@@nial5420 And also NIAL, this has nothing to do with politics, not only am I not a liberal, but brining politics in this, (while also being ABSOLUTELY wrong and incorrect) and then directing the statement onto me by assuming which political party I am on based off a completely unrelated topic is beyond idiotic.
Like the left has nothing to do with the over-sexualization of body parts? In no way shape or form was there any relevancy.
I feel korean skincare and literally claiming to be korean are two different things. Kbeauty brands sell their skincare products to be used, it doesn't matter, in my opinion, which race you are, as long as you don't make fun of it.
(I think the whole asian fetishism argument is dumb except for small exceptions)
@@raingoff5839 No, I never said that. But kbeauty products should still be able to be used.. because the consumer's race doesn't matter as long as they don't make a joke of it. I'm only focusing on one small aspect anyways: Everyone can use kbeauty products if they really want to, it doesn't matter as long as they don't make fun of it.
Because people can do whatever they want as long as it isn't harmful, wearing makeup is not harmful.
I think she added that in not as to further her fetishization argument but to further argument about how east Asia is trending, Korean skincare is like a top dog skincare market.
@@MiskeAli But that's because east asian skin care products are great. I think it would have trended sooner or later anyway. Seeing Kpop stars etc. with good skin and learning about Korean beauty standards etc. trough that just made it easier for the skin care brands.
I don't think she implied that about people using those products.
“So that us fans all the way over here are already consuming fetishized versions of Korean people”-wow! Brilliant insight. This really hit me as a Korean American.
As a half vietnamese american, I've felt that I've always had to prove my "asian-ness" to both my white and asian peers. Doing things like watching anime, listening to kpop, using korean skin care, and following eastern fasion trends has all been things to help me "feel more asian" growing up. When I got older, I felt as if my "asian-ness" was being sold back to me, as a watered down version of my heritage. The idea that I myself have origins in that mystical romanticized eastern world made me feel empowered. It wasn't until my mom and grandparents got me into buddhism that I actually felt connected with my family heritage in a way that didn't feel superficial.
Idk who you are but you don't have to prove anything to anyone. YOUR WORTH AS A HUMAN BEING IS ENOUGH AND YOU'RE SPECIAL.
Start a TH-cam channel where you can find your desired tribe and the people who have the same personality or thoughts as yours.
Don't let yourself to be put in a box with these whole social problems in life.
Life is so much more than just east asian or western countries.
wow im half mexican and i feel the exact same way, i try to prove my "mexican-ness" to my hispanic and white aquaintances by using the slang, speaking more spanish and eating more cultural foods. i hate that i have to get validation from other people to prove to not just them, but myself that im truly mexican. even just someone recognizing the fact that im hispanic without me having to tell them or prove it to them makes me feel so happy. being mixed is a real struggle and i whole-heartedly agree with you.
Same here! I grew up in a close-knit Vietnamese community, with virtually no contact with my white family, yet still felt the need to prove I was "Asian" enough bc of my looks.
So, what helped me was diving deep into learning the intricacies of various cultures, histories, traditions, and (past and current) politics of multiple east Asian countries, esp and as well as my own family's background (who came here after the war). In doing so, it became easier to see divides via nationality over ethnicity and feel a connection through the shared/similar values that east Asian countries may have, in general, while understanding where differences could be and why they may exist.
It definitely helped me get out of trying to stick to this purely collective east Asian identity and finally feel a genuine connection to my own heritage. Seeing how different and similar the views of Vietnamese ppl in Vietnam are compared to those here, depending on the topic and which generation you ask, it was easier to accept myself as being Vietnamese-American.
I'm half Filipino and I'm 22 still figuring out my identity. I never felt like I belong with Asians or black (my other side is black). I'm usually too black to be asian or too Asian to be black. Being with my own family, some of them made me feel the same way. I ended up focusing on being with ppl who would accept me for me: diversity. Where everyone is from different cultures. That's my safety net
im burmese and still going through that, i tried to avoid myself following eastern trends but theres still a disconnect between me and my culture.
knew a girl in high school who told everyone she was 100% korean when not only was her last name nguyen, but she had a twin brother in the grade who was like ...no we are viet
As a viet guy I would never do some shit like that
But also as an aside ever since June 13th 2013 (BTS formation day lmao) Asian men finally became more of a commodity in dating (as opposed to eunuchs) and I noticed. granted being fetishized is dehumanizing but as the video author mentioned there’s power in self fetishization and I rly can’t complain that I’m more of an option now thanks to kpop. I even grew out a middle part and got circle glasses (not that Koreans have a “monopoly” on those things but u get the point).
That is so embarassing
i feel bad for the twin brother, he must be so embarrassed 😭
that's sad
lmfao! yeah that really is sad. I grew up with 90% of my friends being viet and some of *their* viet friends would learn japanese and try to act all kawaii desu too thinking it made them legit japanese since they're already asian and therefore better than non-asians that also liked the language. The amount of cringe weeaboo behaviour associated (like them^) with the rise of anime popularity killed my interest in studying the language/anime soon after..
its gonna go from "ew, you're disgusting and weird" to "i wanna be you/fetishize you"
this happenes with brown people, black people, the LGBTQ+ community (particularly bisexuals or gay men),east asians, and many more.
a fellow blink :3
I agree and know what it feels like especially being apart of the lgbtq+ specifically bisexual. I constantly hear people calling me and my friends the f-slur but then they go on to saying things like "I want a gay best friend" or "I wear rainbow, so how am I not an ally" "I can say the f-slur, I don't hate gay people" it's so weird..
As much as i dont see myself as anything other than straight, your point does still stand.
people are exposed to cultures a lot more these days and choose to pick ideally and builds their lives as such, surgeries to look korean, learning japanesd culture purely through anime..
what we (east asian born) export in terms of culture is often universal.. films, art, music is all so easily consumable that obviously this is something good. imagine a gorgeous cake sitting on display.. once you order it. its nowhere near that plastic display. we ship things to westerners because westerners invest a lot into multiculturalism and adopting and supporting other cultures, we surgically perfect, our kpop models, our animes and mangas are the work of half dead mangakas and animators
add to that, we usually dont show anything to even fellow koreans or japanese of anything shameful or not perfect.
Sneezing? outside class, shoes? in your lockers, abusive family? deal with it, you're THEIR child, harsh work? you're getting paid to work
What do you think a nation which normalises that, would try and pitch to westerners? a perfect breed
Lots of straight guys call those feminine guys and f@g$ and hate on them and in the same time time s3xu@lly harrassing or bullying em into s3x.
In the Philippines we also had this culture , we call it Mahinhin or Mayumi or in Slang term Maria Clara , it is a combination of Asian Modesty (Timid , Innocent , Shy , not necessarily cute) and Traditional Western Christian Values.
“Rarely do we hear about fetishization of Loas, Vietnam, Philippines.” You mean the brown ones …that face discrimination even amongst other asain communities? Wonder why Westerners don’t fetishizes them… (to the same amount)
exactly, these types of videos ignore the fact that fetishization is selective for a reason, and that reason is discrimination. These Japanese, korean, etc. east Asians are pale and white skinned. That's a requirement to be considered desirable or "fetishizable" in the west. South asians are the least fetishized because they're darker
@@bunnywavyxx9524 I was about to say that + it's also about features. Even a light skinned south Asian or a southeast asian is still not respected or liked anywhere until and unless they have lot of money.
Also a lot of white people and east Asian people have similar thoughts and needs when it comes to beauty so they all complement physically.
And any person who don't fit in those white and east Asian beauty standards should never feel like as if they're less attractive or are not worthy of being a human.
Remember that not all east Asians people fit the beauty standards of east Asia especially a lot of Chinese, Korean people working in tech industry like Google, Facebook don't even fit in east Asian beauty standards and that's fine.
I mean there's so much to do in life other than wanting to fit in a beauty standards.
The closest thing to fetishism is the stereotype of filipina women having a white husband as a money bag. Like, why can't we just marry someone from a different race just for love?
Idk, I feel like it is skin color but it’s more than that. It’s because Korean and Japanese culture/media and a little bit of China’s is very consumable to not only the west but everywhere. Until countries like Myanmar, Vietnam, Philippines, etc are able to have the economic power to produce media similar to anime, k/cdramas, kpop, etc, there won’t necessarily ever be as much fetishization of those cultures because they simply just don’t have a presence. Not that fetishization is a good thing but it’s also about what countries have to offer pop culture-wise.
Vietnamese and Pinoy actors and celebrities are all super pale, the idea that either of these people are "brown" only works if you've never seen one of them.
As a person from central/east Europe (Poland to be exact), who had some contact with the fetishized asian culture in his life (kpop, anime etc), however not much contact with asian people or real (by real i mean direct and nonfetishized) I have to say that i never really thought of the asian media that I consumed as a real cultural product, but rather a crafted one. It really felt like i didn't enjoy a part of the culture but a carefully crafted product, a sort of advertisment. This video nicely reasurred my feeling. Thanks for the cultural context :)
No, they really are their cultural product because every other country cannot make the same thing. For example, no other country can make American movies and series because eventhough you as American thinks it's far removed from your reality, at the very least it's reflect your reality. Captain America cannot be made in any other country, nor is Iron Man. Because no other country is preoccupied with military might and power like America! You can argue China, Russia and France are also obsessed with the military, but the way their government work cannot make the individual freedom loving superhero story work. Also the moral questions in these movies reflect American's dilemma with their ongoing war in some sandy places that other countries just don't understand.
So you telling me it's not 'real cultural product' is frankly bizarre because it actually reflect what the culture is preoccupied with.
@@syasyaishavingfun they're kind of right because most series will not be so overt in how the society functions at least not a clueless foreigner. For example I am not well versed in south east asian history or culture so any film or series potraying societal issues viewpoint extra will just fly over my head because I just don't understand those smaller hints and 2 all media will always have a level of overdrama to make sure you're engaged with what is happening. For example the inbettweners and dr who both will give a more fantastical view of british culture than what you're likely to see.
As others have mentioned, it is no different with America (the biggest cultural exporter in the world). It's romanticized and idealized as well.
you worded this so well, coming from a korean person
I honestly have been thinking in my whole life that products like these are part of cultures. Maybe not physically, but it tells a lot about how the people there think and see the world thru their eyes. How their mindset works, how their civilization works. Like movies for example, i'm asian and i watch american movies frequently, i can definitely feel the differences between asian culture & american culture while watching them. I can differentiate the things i would NOT do in asia that seem to be normalized in the movie. Soft power is always about culture, you promote your culture & mindset through entertainment
One time I was on Pinterest and someone was doing a "helping you find your aesthetic thing" and they said they would do "koreancore" and I was just like wtf like what does that mean LMFAOOO 🤢😭
lmao, pinterest is really obsessed with that...tried to find some pictures of south east asian girls and it just shows douyin/ulzzang girls..
@@warmwavess yikers
i recently saw a picture on Pinterest of a Japanese girl wearing cosplay and it was captioned “Japancore” i almost threw up.
@@warmwavess yes holyshit
It only shows jejemons smh
I only know about the "-core" aesthetic from Weirdcore, Dreamcore and Traumacore. I dont know that there's a "-core" that uses peoples' race. Im glad my Pinterest and Tumblr are safe from all of that.
oh god this video was so amazing !!!! I've got several tabs open to read more from everything you sourced!!!
tiktok and instagram have RUINED everything. believe me.
Yes and they have ruined my country too
Well.....TikTok is probably the BIGGEST PLATFORM that have ruined everything honestly. Especially today we are living where I think most people use TikTok.
social media ruined everything in general
Tiktok and instagram ruined everything but they wouldn't exist if the US didn't exist so they ruined everything but also they wouldn't be a thing if europe and spcially britain wasn't a thing so I blame the british
ruined my k.d in cod
I am a white french male and i experienced "fetishization" in Singapore and South Korea while working there. I would never say that it can compare to what east-asian can experience in Europe/America but i think i could understand more about what it could feel like to be fetishized. I completely relate to the fact that people were defining me only by physical features ( you can clearly see it when people are just asking for a picture and then leave without trying to talk or form a connection). I think this issue of fetishization is not limited to East asia but rather a "common" thing that represents exotism in a foreign country. Anyway great video, you put some word and on some underlying thought that i had about this whole issue.
Honestly, it's a worry of mine for when I do travel one day. Not only can I not already safely do so by myself as a woman, but I'm 6' and bound to draw attention because of it. I don't want that attention, but I would be like a strange commodity in any country that doesn't have 6' as a common enough height. Which means I'm bound for travelling to "white" countries, which sounds boring and exclusionist as hell. If you ever return, you need to wear a mask and sunglasses and look real recluse. The scent and energy you give off is also important, so that's something to consider. That should deter some people, but I'm sure you'd still get the odd phone in your face. Did it annoy you a lot, or just more of a weird experience sort of thing? I'd be interesting to see the difference in how a white male is received, compared to a white female. History can answer for that, but I wonder if anything has changed. Anyway, you made a great point that I've always considered myself too; the "outsiders" are something new and not well understood, and people want to understand, categorise, and know you and "your ways" are not a threat to their otherwise peaceful experience and life.
@@someoldytaccount I would agree with you that it is indeed "bound to happen" to have people taking picture or giving you looks. The only times i felt truly uncomfortable were when "moms" ( female 35 to 50 age range) approached and flirted / were touching me (not in sexual way but there hands were feeling my arm for example) as if i was an escort or just an object (this happened in the streets not in a bar or flirty setting). I cant speak on how i would have been treated if i were to be a women there as i have the "advantage" of being rather intimidating physically and i could stop things easily if they were going to escalate to borderline sexual harassment. Also it putted me for the first time in the position of a "minority" and now even if i cant really understand what women or specific ethnicity might experience on a daily basis, i am now aware of the issue and can try to take parts in order to reduce the prejudices. But even though it was somewhat annoying i absolutely do not regret going there and i would encourage you do so as well, maybe trying to go with a friend? I noticed that encounters were less frequent when i was not alone. I hope your travels will go well and you will have beautiful memories that will surely on the long run erase the bad ones !
Don't worry man, I understand. Countries like France, Italy and Spain suffer a lot of fetishization as well
@@Goyo_MGC
Thats pretty weird
I havent seen ppl do that outside of bars or flirty settings
Thats quite unlucky of you to have met those aunties
Sorry you had to go through that, I know the large majority of ppl here arent that bad tho
@@dutyfree5192 Especially German women in the dirndl. Classy and attractive. I see nothing wrong with it.
I'd just like to say that assuming a "South Asian" identity is not uncommon within South Asia. There are many ethnolinguistic and especially religious divisions within and amongst most South Asian nations, and claiming a South Asian identity is a way of breaking down some of those boundaries, though the term 'South Asian' itself is not used.
Yeahh, we use the term 'desi' here for someone being part of either India, Pakistan or Bangladesh.
@@karlarao8736 yeah, plus desis don't even want to associate with each other in the first place until we're in a foreign country at which point its like oh i have more in common with you than i do with this person whos lived in minnesota their whole life. and honestly even then i see everyone segregating themselves into more specific identities (at least at the nationality level) all of the time. i went to a garba/raas celebration and it was literally 98% gujrati people
@@karlarao8736 yup and there are lots of people from those countries who don't even fit into that 'desi' category either so these archetypes of what it is to be a South Asian in western media are such gross simplifications of people who belong to one of the most culturally, linguistically, ethnically and even phenotype wise, diverse regions on planet Earth
@@karlarao8736 As a Sri Lankan, most if not all Sri Lankans don't use the desi label . I've noticed it more among my Indian/Pakistani friends
@@therealhamadasif ohh, okay. Sorry about that!
you really pack a lot of info in your videos and your choice of topic itself is very concise. you cracked the code on how to keep people engaged for a full video, which is hard to do in this "entertain me in 5 seconds or i click off' world.
As a Thai person I do agree with you on aegyo or being cute. I generally think of myself as a serious person but I sometimes tried to be cute for the sole purpose of being socially accepted or creating harmony in a group and I have to admit that it does makes my life easier by performing what is expected of you as a girl.
I once read an article on the difference expectations of women in East Asia like Japan and the west. While East Asian (or other countries that are heavily influenced by East Asian cultures like Thailand) are expected to be cute or “inferior”, Western women are expected to be sexy. In the workplace, it seems that the “sexy” women are more respected because at least they’re not childish; however, I find both of these expectations (and many more about women) problematic. Why can’t women be respected just as who they are without performing these expectations?!
Commenting because high quality videos generate high quality comments and threads and I'm here to follow that!!
Nice observation btw :D
cute looking people gets infantilized and and exotic looking people gets sexualized. they don’t take both of them seriously. in both ways, it’s very uncomfortable.
Everyone needs to peg some identifying characteristic onto others they meet just to sort them out in their mind. Tbh, now that I'm not that young anymore, trying to get others to think of you the way you want to is merely a necessary growing pain to get used to. I'm Asian myself and as a son, my father would force his views of what a man should be the whole time I was growing up: know your way around a toolbox, learn how to use power tools, be able to fix a car on your own instead of going to a mechanic, etc. And growing up as a boy, you learn very quick to be macho, confident, and learn skills quickly or get called weak, dumb, useless, and will never get a girlfriend. Nowadays, that stuff is very useful with my own responsibilities, financial safety, and social circles to worry about. It helps navigate society and deal with others whether positively (you want to associate with them) or negatively (you want to filter them out and get away). It's a sort of game you have to play, or get left behind if you don't. And it's not a single-player game either; it's a gigantic multi-player game where others will expect you to contribute appropriately if you are on their team (friends, business partners, spouses, etc.) for any reason. If you can be your true self and nobody bothers you, then it's already common courtesy and respect. Getting more than that will need you to play the roles they like while balancing your interest in it. Getting less than that... Well... Those people are not for you.
TL;DR = Listen to boomers and people who "have a life"... *sometimes*. You'll turn around on some perspectives and find some useful stuff.
just how humans are i guess, regardless of gender. for example, in a majority female workplace, suddenly the expectations are on the men to please the women and not disrupt the atmosphere. Even for men, we judge other men and treat them differently, and I'm pretty sure its no different for women. It's just that in most cases men hold more superior positions in the workplace so the burden of pleasing is on women and the blame is on men.
I’m kind of relieved by the fact that it’s possible to act cute instead of sexy now, since it’s easier for me to act that way given all my tics and fidgeting. If society will refuse to see me as a serious guy I may as well survive by the slightly less exhausting option of being seen as a cute girl… even though it’s more dishonest and soul-crushing.
I can’t overstate how big ur brain is on this!!! Also the perfect timing coz im writing a paper on native vs diaspora cultural representation!!!! Self orientalism and fetishization is definitely something to consider!! Its interesting that china self fetishezes like you said in the tourism videos, but when the ethnic minorities are represented in media, chinese people reject them? Eg Dior photorapher Chen Man getting cancelled because she took portraits of ethnic minorities in her video shoot coz they “dont represent chinese beauty".
What im noticing is that natives and westerners/diaspora fetishize "asianness" differently. Like how tiktok have viral fox eye trends, makeup styles thats accused for asian fishing, and ariana grande on her latest monolid look. Whereas, in Weibo, Chinese makeup and beauty standards are always about BIG eyes? Chinese people really hate being stereotyped with small eyes, but the biggest takeway by western internet in asian fishing is taping slanted eyes and monolids? Meanwhile, Chinese illustrators and artists who are (I assume) trying to embrace their natural looks by drawing characters with small/slant eyes are quickly getting called 辱华 (insulting the Chinese race) and pandering to Western stereotypes of East Asians. Is this about exoticization vs the cute culture too??
Anyway great thought provoking video!!!
very interesting comment!
Can you drop a link to your paper when it's done? Sounds like it's going to be good
you have a point
I feel like it's just different beauty standards honestly which is why it's different...
I’ve always been said to have “big eyes for an Asian person” and it pisses me off. What’s that supposed to mean? How do you expect me to take that backhanded shit as a compliment? Asian people aren’t a stereotype. We are real
Humans too. We are only objects to this world. Yet we’re the staple of keeping this world standing.
My Chinese friend taught me “Aegyo” back in 2018 when we were taking selfies lol. It can be fun playing that way, but I feel bad for the women who have been exploited that way or doing it when they don’t want to..
Bruh I think nobody is doin aegyo at work no more in Korea man. maybe to your romantic partner? doin it at work seems weird in 2022 tho
@USERZ123 I have noticed men using that type of voice too! And on top of that- the phenomena not being exclusive to China, we see a version of it in America and all over the planet, really, where women’s femininity is fetishized. I guess there is a fine line between just being feminine (whatever that may mean for the respective female) and then Aegyo. In a way it’s like the female version of “toxic masculinity” ?We shouldn’t look down on “girly girls” or “tomboys” nor “feminine men” or whatever. we each express gender differently. It’s hard to tell how much culture has influenced that and how much is innate..
@@ZebrazRus that would be toxic femininity
My consumption of Korean and Japanese media has led me to change a lot. I have straightened my hair, have stopped wearing ethnic clothes and have been following korean fashion intensively, i also fixate on my features like nose, legs (cause thier beauty standard prefers long legs),my weight and so on and so forth. I also talk with my head voice . Through this video i realised how it has impacted me. All this changes took with the gradual increase and popularity of their media and it has made an impact on me.
I look forward to myself being more culturally grounded and accepting my beautiful features as they are.
As an Afghan growing up in America, I can say that while the years after September 11 were not great for the community (bigotry and what not against brown people) I can at least find peace knowing that I'll never be called a "Spicy Latino" or "Sexy Asian".
Yeah. We're called "uncivilized terrorists" regardless of how we ourselves are impacted by the situation. There is no winner in eurocentric racism.
Honestly the way America and Europe approaches the Arab community and Islam (especially Islam) needs a whole video to be talked about, both are worse than each other
@@karma5321 I know you mean well but I just want to make sure. Afghans are not Arabs, their "Persians" (quotes because I know English is weird with definitions), if you ever mix those up in real life conversation it can be incredibly awkward, it's like calling a Brazilian person Spanish, or a Cuban person Mexican. Mostly people won't try to correct you because they don't want to come of as annoying but in their heads they have already made some unflattering assumptions about you. ;)
@@Абдулло-щ3е9э and some people don’t even know that Afghanistan is in Asia 😭. When I tell people that I’m from Afghanistan and that I’m an Asian they’re like ‘no your not 😗, you don’t look Asian ’ . 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ I m fed up of people telling me my race and ethnicity
@@MomoMomo-nz2gm so true. World's perception of Asia is East and Southeast Asian looking people...even people from the mentioned region do not know India, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other countries in Middle East are Asian. I am even confused, as an Asian, sometimes if the term Asian should refer to people living in the Asian continent or just those who look like the perceived Asian, I mean those races with almond shaped eyes with black hair.
13:10 I am a hundred percent Korean female, lived my entire life in this country, so I must say that the definition of aegyo is different between western people and us Koreans. Aegyo is more like, something that a person with sweet, bright personality naturally has, not the weird 'acting-like-a-baby' sort of thing. Also, I'm not trying to be offensive, but in this video you make it seem like aegyo is vital for Korean woman. That is not true at all. If someone does an 'aegyo(what western people think)' in her workplace, people will see her as a weird, unprofessional person. I am a student and I go to a girls only school, but if my classmate does aegyo at school, kids will think she is crazy. Normal Korean woman does not do aegyo in everyday life. As for K-pop idols doing aegyo, it's supposed to be funny, not cute. (idk why western people think aegyo is cute.. aegyo is supposed to be part of a joke) The idol's awkward reaction is supposed to be funny (it's some kind of an inside joke) when the MC in the reality show makes them do aegyo. 13:12 and this just doesn't make sense. I've never seen anybody in Korea teach children to do aegyo from a very young age... 'Being cute' thing might be the kind of thing you are talking about in Japan, but in Korea, no. Koreans don't have that weird fetish. We love indenpendent woman and nowadays it is almost impossible for passive woman to get a job. But overall I agree about what you are talking about. I really appreciate your research.
+sorry if my English is weird here. I'm not a native speaker...
i tell my mom about this the other day and she say the same thing because it is seen for laughing only
At school i see many girls doing aegyo...
@@joshhart5259 In Korea? You've got an American name.
This comment reminds me a bit of Irish Americans, who don't realise their idea of "Irish culture" is considered embarrassing by people from Ireland.
Exactly! I'm not a Korean but I have multiple Korean friends and what you said about aegyo is something they've told me before.
You only touched on it a little, but I want to emphasize that the strategized self-fetishization like Cool Japan or Korean Wave may help export of cultural products, but in no way it will truly let the fans learn the real culture. As if Rambo or Captain America are true representation of the U.S., same idea.
i know like four people named alice wang what if i know u
You are 100% right, and honestly this should honestly be the crux of the argument. These behaviors and whitewashing of history are not internalized because we vacuously decided that we like it. These behaviors are internalized because they were profitable as cultural exports. Here's a great example: the Bushido code. When Nitobe wrote "Bushido: The Soul of Japan" Japanese people considered it to be a gross misrepresentation of their culture, while the West were shocked and held this book as the truth on Japan for many decades, even still to this day. But through the cool Japan initiative, the government decided to whitewash samurai to their most extreme to rehabilitate Japan's imperial war crimes and promote their tourist industry. The reality is that Samurai were a brutal and oppressive class that terrorized peasants at every turn, but this history is erased when Japan set out to market their country as harmonious, apolitical, and without conflict for the Western Gaze.
The point is that this does not happen by coincidence. People don't change their way of lives unless it is profitable. Look at every cultural export that east Asia has and behind it you will see big money at work.
Yea, I'm not even Asian but I had to have a Convo with a girl that basically wanted to date Korean guys because she and I quote "wanted a good guys like the ones from kdramas"(she was young but still) ..........I had to pull her aside and break it to her. The short version of what I told her was that it doesn't matter where they're from or what race they are there are going to be good guys and terrible guys everywhere. Kdramas are made to romanticize and overdramatize situations and people just like any form of media 🤦🏾♀️
this!!!!
It's hard to learn real Korean musical culture when they steal so heavily from black culture.
this video and the media video has some of the most interesting topics that honestly keep me alive and thinking we're going through such an interesting point in humanity
Great video. However I strongly disagree that Vietnam, Philippines or Thailand etc. are rarely fetishized. While I don't know how it is in the US, living here in Europe especially the women of those countries are immensely objectified and seen as trophy women for "ugly" european men. Most of them are seen as poorly educated but easy targets for s*xual relationships. And ofc the stereotype is that they're exotic, submissive & obedient. Sometimes they have those traits simply bc they can't speak the european country's language fluently. I do think east asia is more "popular" in the mainstream, but the fetishization does include Asia (yes, South Asia included) in general. At least that's my experience in Europe. Edit: I also have to add that there's a stereotype here that asian women are pr*stitutes & cheap.
that is such a good point!! there are many middle aged white men in america too that travel to Vietnam, Philippines and Thailand to take advantage of the women there and fetishize them
*cough* big ed *cough*
*cough*90 day fiance *cough*
@Jk Yess I agree with you completely and this stereotype of south east asian women. I do have to make a correction that that image is mostly perpetuated by Thailand and Philippines tho. They have do have more freedom in their sexual culture, plus poverty kind of encourage ppl to go for old white people for ✨dem USD ✨(really sad tbh)
This is the extreme opposite in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei. Mostly conservative people and having sex outside of marriage is still a huge taboo. Unless you're seeing actual prostitutes, good luck getting some action XDD
I remember first time I found out that it is normal for kids in Germany to have sex at like 14 I was like, shooketh
Here you can safely assume all your classmates in university are virgins, and we wear our virginlord badge with pride lmaoooo
Yea that isn’t really a thing in the US, people only really focus on Japanese, Chinese, and Korean people.
True. I blame the media and ads too
As European the section about aegyo was really interesting for me because I realized it's really similar to "dumb blond behaviour" (i didn't create the name that's how men call cute women). Even thought I'm an independent feminist woman in certain situations to get through them I have to act dumb and clueless. We dont exactly make ourselves look childlike, just more inexperienced or younger. I used to do it unconsciously while asking strangers for help.
Yeah I already deflated aggressions and even violent attempts at me just by playing into this poor helpless innocent girl act... Like ...why is this a thing we need to survive...
funny or sadly enough the dumb blond is an archetype from holywood in which the blond girl was always dumb sexual and is some what promiscous and since that was getting churned out so hard especially in the 80s-00s just about everyone has some understanding of it.
Omg I never thought of that connection ! That's actually so interesting
Maybe this has more to do with your bubble than anything else. I´m a European as well and the girls I interacted with in my life never play cutsey here. If you still accept help from people who make you change your whole attitude, maybe you all should overthink if it is truly worth it. Also, we "men" do not call cute women "dumb blondes", I have never heard this phrase...It does exist, but is not used generally for cute women
There is a TH-camr who was born female, transitioned to and lived as male, and then detransitioned, and now lives as female again. In one video, she talked about the difference between living as male vs.female, and which was "better". She said that as a female she experienced more compassion and understanding from other people, but as male she experienced more respect and deference.
I honestly don't think this is just a culturally constructed difference. I think this is the ultimate foundation of gender difference. I'm not saying that it is "right" or "fair". But I think it's pretty universal.
And one important point is that there are costs and benefits that come with each gender stereotype. While women have a harder time getting respect and autonomy from others, men are treated more harshly and given less help from others. Neither role is universally "better". It all depends on the context.
As a southeast Asian I think this topic is really interesting from my POV. Because in my community it’s almost as if they put East Asians on a pedestal and a goal to achieve their looks. I wouldn’t call it fetishization, but it feels like it. Like we’re Asian but not seen as the pretty Asians and it’s a compliment if someone says you look Korean or Chinese. I’ve even heard some girls say they wished they were born East Asian.
Edit:
I’m just writing this edit bc I feel like my original comment has gotten taken out of context/strayed away from the point💀 what I’m basically trying to say is that SOME southeast Asians (mainly those living in western countries where East Asian content dominates Asian media/representation) feel like they have to cosplay/pretend to be East Asian to be seen has the more “popular” Asians. And this notion is SOMEWHAT upheld by some elders in our own community. With some comments I personally heard from MY community using looking Korean or any form of EA (including Chinese bc I have heard some) as a compliment. I AM NOT speaking for all southeast Asians or ANY other asian regions, but this is what I have witnessed in MY COMMUNITY. I wrote my og comment because in the video it talks about self-fetishization which I felt kind of related since I do feel like SOME romanticize the idea of what it’s like to be East Asian and turn it into something that’s not very progressive for the Asian community. I also wrote my comment to express something I PERSONALLY have not heard discussed enough about in the SEA community. In no means am I saying that there’s anything wrong with not being East Asian. In fact I think that’s something people in our community needs to learn and push forward towards in order to accept who we are. I hope this explains enough.
yes, its kind of like ‘‘oh, your Asian so you’re meant to be *this or this* ’’
i see that a lot. as a white girl who loves kpop and is actively getting into sea cultures the different reactions i get are insane. when I say i love kpop and would like to visit korea i get maybe a koreaboo joke or a bts joke. when i mention i like bollywood and would love to visit india, i get a "but there are poor people there" its weird
It does end up, to a certain extent, as a feeling of not being "the good kind" of asian,
Not being particularly discriminated, but having no positive representation if any at all. It is as if the world ignores south east Asia. It's not uncommon to wish to have been born as an east Asian, it's the desire to be desirable.
@@haleycopans296 Don’t listen to those guys. Go to any country you want to go to, just make sure you’re safe and not hating on the culture or overstepping boundaries.
Crazy. Not surprising.. but crazy.
I'm still shocked that whitening cream is a concept that exists in... the 21st century.
I am mixed race... and for whatever reason, I always wanted to be darker.
I like that for myself. I live in a white country, perhaps that is somehow a factor... white people always want to be darker, and apparently vice versa?
Except in the places where there was the whole... peasants work outside and so skin tone class system... caste system?
It's all pretty stupid in any case.
I ended up confused at 16:04. I was In particular contemplating your depiction on the"fetishization" on East- asia, And while pausing the video to type this response I thought about how this can be applied to different groups of people, their ideas, and their cultures as well (With the nuances of each being assumed). Although I'm new to your content, I respect your cohesively-given examples and your apparent willingness to anwser questions I found myself glossing over.
-Thank you for posting Improving content.
"Weebs" and people like that bug me. As a white guy learning Japanese, (because I want to work in the Japanese business field someday) I have taken a strong interest in culture and tradition, music, food, etc. It always bothers me when people call me a "weeb" for learning about another culture that I want to work in someday. Wihtout a true understanding of all aspects of the culutre.
I think all people who are infatuated with Asian culture that think of it as "perfect" and "kawaii" need a reality check and to educate themselves. Yes, Japan (in particular) has seen an increase in "cute" styles and marketing trends. Yes, it might be foreign that their country is clean, safe, and trains arrive on time. But as with anywhere, not everything is perfect.
To gain a real understanding of these countries, it is also important to understand (again, speaking on Japan because I am most knowledgeable there) that there are difficult issues such as a flatlining economy, a severely declining population, a massive overwork and death from overwork problem, an inefficient labor force, etc. etc. etc.
Just remember: When you think of the bright lights of Shinjuku and the "cuteness" of Tokyo, remember that there are countless salarymen in an office looking down on that while working their 62nd hour of overtime. The sushi restaurant that you think is so different has an employee who hasn't sat down for 13 hours. While the hustle and bustle of the city is going until 2am, remember that in Gunma or Gifu there is a dying village with only 50 people left. There are plenty of people who would love to be in your position.
There is nothing wrong with being interested in other cultures, but please please please learn about them first. If you still find it fascinating and intriguing after learning about the cool elements of their culture AND their problems, you are a step closer to culutral appreciation instead of cultural fetishization.
Chill your a weeb dude ..
you sir have hit the nail in the head at the end of day Japan is a country and many people forget about that. Im the same as you learning the language currently in school and trying to gain experience to get there. I watch anime and other media to help me with my immersion and its pretty obvious well to me that Japan ain't like this. Like its cartoon how can people believe this replicates everyday life. Also I have seen cases where people express their desire to like give japan a shot and they don't even sound weebish or obsessive and there always have to be people saying "oh Japan ain't all sunshine or rainbows , you are never going to be japanese". Like dude no shit why people think that everybody are weeaboos is annoying.
I would say, Japan is a great country to live in, granted that you do not actually work for any companies there, i.e. you're retired or you're a streamer or something like that
Based on my name some would call me a weeb... And I am... But I don't really think I'm fetishizing Japan, I just watch Anime, cook Tonkatsu or Omurice when I'm craving it(there's a japanese channel who liked my culture who started cooking my country's traditional food while also giving tutorials for Japanese food), I was learning Japanese but I didn't have time because I'm focusing on college.
I'm also sidelearning Animation to maybe work in anime outsourcing studios in my country...
I'm also Asian...
I just don't have monolids.
Btw I'd probably hate living in Japan, visiting I'd love it but working?? Based on all the Manga's I've read, fuck no...
90% Manga's that has some sort of work in it end up with the character either being depressed, overworked, dead.
The last part of my comment is also goes with Korean stuff... I'd die before I go to school in Korea, bullying there based on Korean comics the can be horrible... And some apparently has truth to it.
This reminds me of when my Japanese language professor asked us as to why people study Japanese, and a lot of people say that they want to live and Japan and they grew to like Japan due to anime. It wasn’t about learning the culture, ethics, or language of a place outside of your own, but rather to participate in a world that you believe exists due to anime, which has lead them to these false expectations that “Japan is a flawless, and lawful and outstanding place!” And ignore the voices of those that tell them otherwise due to this false perception being built due to anime consumption.
110%! I studied Japanese at uni in the UK and by far the majority of the class got into learning Japanese due to anime, and always assumed I was a fan of anime too, simply just because of me learning Japanese. Even studying abroad in Japan, most of my class were Chinese students and a HUGE portion of the class were huge anime fans and would use phrases or ask the sensei about phrases they heard in anime.
Basically, Japan was a culture shock to a lot of people in my class (irregardless of where they came from) due to anime ruling their perception of the country and culture lmao
@@katr_i_na only reason I’d learn Japanese is so I can have a conversation with Smokey nagata or some of the other major people in the Japanese car scene like akira nakai cause I like rwb 🤷♂️
although anime was what introduced me to Japan, I feel like if I wanted to study japanese I would like the culture to a certain extent.
when I see japan in like pictures it looks beautiful especially places like kyoto which have a idk traditional feel to it?
I would also want to learn something if I'm good at it and anime did help me learn some japanese since I watched it with subtitles
but to truly study japanese as a subject I would definitely have to love its cultures and traditions
@@jasonh.8981 fuck yeah I could beg for an unaffordable body kit and tune. Just being able to talk to those legends would make me so happy
As a black person, 1 thing I have to say about how Lizzo, nas x, and Doja act online is that black people are marketed as wild and unburdened by convention. So even their "real" imagine online is a marketing strategy.
Preach!
You're so right bro. That marketed image of the foul-mouthed. ghetto rat precedes us everywhere we go. Imagine my "joy" at being greeted by random Asian youth with a hearty "What's up my Niggah?"
I can't be angry with them because they don't know any better. It's all they see. From Samuel L. Jackson to 99.9% percent of rap musicians, it is the image our nation markets to the world.
@@morganjohnson539 Sad but true.
You've got that right, it's all the same. It's all the same shit, just different toilets. It's all a marketing ploy to get you to buy their product. For Kpop, the product is a innocent pretty boy that can sing. The market is simply giving customers what they want, if you want to be angry at someone, you should be angry at the customer for supporting the product.
@@SmashBrosBrawl
Pretty much! To an extent if we stop supporting, they'll stop producing.
I'm, for some reason, glad that she refers to these countries as EAST ASIAN and not wholly ASIAN because Asia is huge and has a diverse range of countries.
22:38 true. I love anime, so I started learning about actual Japanese culture, and I want to go to Japan in the future. But I don’t wish I was born there. I know how pressured they are in school to have good grades, how strict schools are, how misogynistic, colourist, etc. Japan is. And I mean I still appreciate the cultural practices, the language and the entertainment industry, but I also know that that’s not how Japan actually is.
for the good weebs, they remind other weebs that anime is different from the reality that happens in Japan,
Basically we remind that we must be able to distinguish between reality and fiction (anime).
owl house pfp !
@@wisono7857 there are no good "weebs".
"weeb/weeaboo" is a derogatory term meant for people who fetishize Japanese culture (i think people on 4chan started using the word in place of "Japanophile" years ago, and it just caught on)
Liking anime or being interested in Japanese culture doesn't make you a fetishist, obvs.
sorry to nitpick i just find it frustrating that "weeaboo" has been softened to mean "anime geek" or smth when it could've been such a powerful forum weapon LOL
@@actualgoblin so why can't we change the meaning to fix some of the negative connotation? I still remember when the term first came into popular use and was always used to put people down, but that's changed recently. Sure it can still be used negatively, but what's wrong with changing the connotation behind it?
same here. I'm american and I love the language, media and food and stuff. but it's more of an appreciation of contrasting cultures; it shows just how different earth can get and how amazing our world is. I think we should learn to accept that the only thing different about different races/ethnicities is 1. where we were born, 2. our cultures/the way we were raised, 3. the way we look
we are all just humans on a planet anyways!
I'm a 36 yr old Korean American, lived in Korea and the U.S, and I don't see any issues with Aegyo. It's so nuanced and yes you're right, those who live outside of the culture like you might struggle to understand it. It doesn't take away from a woman's independence, her empowerment or her maturity. I personally don't have as much aegyo as some of my friends, but I still aegyo to my husband (it comes out naturally I dont plan it), and also to my older cousins whom I'm very close with---and it's not in a way that demeans my "adulthood" at all. The clips you showed to represent aegyo are so far off on one end, where it CAN be very cringe, so I dont believe it's a very fair representation of how nuanced aegyo can be. Also, keep in mind that even MEN do it to their peers and lovers so it's not just subjected to women. For us east Asians who grew up in their cultures, it's an endearing act more than anything else, and done mostly to those they love or are close with.
Would you say it’s similar to how American couples “baby talk” eachother and act cutely. Or even how highschool students here act cutely as a way of camaraderie through hand symbols, physical touch, facial expressions and in group slang/nicknames?
@@bru1sed_v1olet I would personally say yes, on both examples. It could look like either of those, and a whole lot more. I mean, even if we think of baby talk to a spouse, it can be subtle or excessive depending on the person and relationship. So for example, if my hubby ate the last piece of chocolate I wanted, I would say "Babe...I wanted that last piece of chocolate...." in a normal toned voice, however, I would also pout out my lower lip ever so slightly and glare cutely at him because it's not like I'd be super angry he ate it, but my face would show that I was definitely disappointed. He finds it endearing whilst knowing that he should never eat my last piece of chocolate ever again. Lol.
Coming from a complete newcomer to all of this, just learned what aegyo is like 5 seconds ago, it just seems creepy in the way of people on a large scale romanticizing the idea of children and acting like a child (your case is fine, to me it just seems off when someone tries to change their public image to that of some childish persona)
You could also argue, that it is some kind of stress reliver.
In Countrys, like Japan or Korea, most People have a high Pressure on them, to uphold themself to the high social Standards and constantly wear a "professional" Face or Mask outside.
So to underline the Fact, they are now in an Environment, reserved for Frinds and Family, they act more freely and exaggerate it sometimes, with the more cute and soft behaviour.
Thank you for this comment! Didn’t know there was a word for it until now, but I definitely aegyo towards my boyfriend, and I’ve always felt bad for doing it, because it seems kind of wrong for a 20 year old to occasionally talk with a baby voice. But I only do it with him, and he also does it with me. So I wouldn’t even think of doing it in any sort of more formal situation or even in front of others. Relieving to know that I’m not the only one, and to know that there’s a large spectrum!
When you realise the reason anime and catgirls exist, was because Japan wanted to be more lighthearted and "cute" to foreigners and to uplift their people's spirits after the horrors of war...
In other words, the U.S. in a sense, bombed weaboos into existence
Makes sense, that was there payback
@@Chillikilli the Japanese were playing the long game
@@emmanueldy9130 yup they are very good at vengeance
@@Chillikilli *revengeance*
Or maybe they just like anime and catgirls? Have you ever thought about that? Or does everything have be related to geopolitics?
Got into an Uber once and the driver asked if I was Korean. I said no, I’m Chinese. The man proceeded to say too bad, I must wish I was Korean. WTF
People like you are disgrace of our 中国🇨🇳 country.
I wish you are not a Chinese.
We are the Super Power, who give a F about a uber driver?
Personally, I find it really interesting to see “aegyo” manifested as a cultural significator despite it being a widespread evolutionary tactic. Korea has definitely given it a life of its own, so I understand why it’s perceived that way, but this behavior isn’t limited to Koreans.
As a woman in a western society, even I find myself playing into vulnerability and childlike tendencies for my advantage; Egos are suddenly malleable when faced with the prospect of being a hero. The concept of “soft power” can be applied here. I think there is value in being meek.
In combination of personal experience and various observations, this behavior is especially prevalent in relationships because of the vulnerability that comes with such strong intimacy and privacy. Constantly I, a mixed American woman, and my boyfriend, a white American man, engage in infantilizing behavior with each other. We have no reason to have our guards up around each other, so we feel safer to express ourselves in a more vulnerable way. Sometimes it’s to gain affection, other times it’s for lighthearted manipulation (think puppy eyes). I think it’s also worth mentioning that Men especially engage in this behavior when in relationships as a means to escape the rigid, macho man ideals placed upon them in society. This could contribute to why so many people in those studies prioritized aegyo in their relationships. It’s appeal goes beyond it’s cutesy front, as you’ve stated.
Woah I’ve never seen this in America!🤯
Where I live it’s weird to be touchy with one another UNLESS in a romantic relationship. T^T
@@anyone1111 It’s certainly unlike Korea’s (or Japan’s) display of cuteness, but it’s there! Where are you from, if you don’t mind my asking?
And honestly, I can relate to that. My household in general is anti-touch/grandiose displays of affection. Although, I don’t know how much of it is a cultural thing or a familial thing. However, I think the newer generation of Americans are making an effort to be more receptive to mental health and gentler ways of human interaction. Along with this comes the cultural differentiation between platonic and romantic affection, and thus it’s become a lot more commonplace to do traditional relationship things with your friends, such as cuddling and holding hands. We have an ongoing meme regarding this, “kiss your homies goodnight”.
Because of my upbringing, I find it weird, but heyyyy more power to those who are comfortable with it.
Good point, I agree. All my boyfriends were like this in private, even if their public images were varying levels of tough. I developed quite some aegyo skills and habits over the years as well, even though I would never show it in public.
I'm a neurodivergent dude with social anxiety and depression (I got no idea what's in my neuron spaghetti yet) and I use the whole... "oh, I'm meek and helpless, please do this for me?" routine when I'm running low on spoons. There's times where I prefer to get babied and get through things without having to force myself to power through a literal fight-flight-freeze response, and if I look cute enough someone will inevitably get their protective instinct tripped and help me out.
Shout out to all the protective/parent-friend people who feel a need to help the cute meek people, you're at least a third of the reason I'm relatively mentally healthy!
Everytime I see people making videos that begin with "In Indian culture.." or "people in India are very.." I get so stumped because most often than not I am none of those things. Keeping aside the physical traits, Indians are also stereotyped as being open, submissive, welcoming, blah blah blah. This might be true, but it definitely depends on the individual that's hosting you, their economic background, their GEOGRAPHICAL background (in India, people, cultures and sometimes even languages change every 100 miles or so) and also whether you're a foreigner or not. So clubbing a whole country into one perspective, let alone an entire group of countries, is just dismissive and ignorant. And I love how this video talks about Asians themselves internalizing these stereotypes and perpetuating them.
This. Though I am not Indian by blood or by birth, I know of how diverse a country it is. It’s why I’m hasty to draw conclusions about places like India, Indonesia, the Philippines, and pretty much any country in Africa.
Edit: Including also, Russia, China
When people start with "I'm Aztec..." this is my exact reaction like no Aztec is a generalization of different tribes not of one specific group of people same as what you are saying.
East Asians are far more alike ancestrally than Indians. Culturally of course there are differences. Westerners especially don't realize how racially mixed and diverse India is. If white Americans visit Northern India they may be surprised to run into a few Indians who look very similar to them in color and facial features!
As an Indian, I wholly get what you're trying to convey here but let's face it, for an average person, it cant ever be practical to correctly identify, differentiate and have knowledge about ALL the vastly vivid cultures of a culturally rich country like India. I don't need mention that this goes for all cultural groups of East Asia or Latin America. Individually they are all composed of perhaps thousands of different cultures, and to be able to have appreciable knowledge about just a few major cultures of these groups would be a hell of a feat.
Don't get me wrong here though, it's not my attempt to justify actions of quite a lot of people these days who are unhindered by their own paining ignorance about different cultures and people who grossly generalise masses, I'm trying to convey here that while one absolutely and obviously should not believe in stereotypes and tropes and things like that about different cultures, one should also not expect an average person to be well versed about majority of other foreign cultures. So while many things like clubbing different cultures under one umbrella term are very undesirable, they're unavoidable and are to be expected upto certain extent in the society. So one can't straight up identify somebody else as ignorant or dismissive just because the other person did not have 'adequate knowledge' about different cultures (emphasis on adequate because what is considered to be adequate is purely subjective).
I would say India is the most racially diverse region of the world. The majority cannot be equated with East Asians though. Majority would be "Caucasoids" as they were once known...West Eurasian ancestry. But the country includes all major groups, amazingly. American "racial groups" are just a mess.
as a korean, growing up, that baby talking or talking to sound cute or like in a childish matter (aegyo) is something i always did and never felt weird about it because it's just normal to act cute in korea but as soon as my family moved to america, i always try to avoid doing it whenever there's people in our house (who visits us on a daily basis) because; 1.) they'd find it really pathetic and weird and 2.) some of my american cousins are kpop stans and they once told me to act cute like how idols do it on videos 😭 it's just so weird and was honestly so hard in the first months there but i'm ok with it now. i still act like that sometimes with my family only when there's no one because it's such a hard thing to like explain and discuss to non-koreans 😭
just felt like sharing that because it seems relevant to the video so yeah 😭
Jeez that's so weird that it's so internalize so much😅 but non-asians wouldn't really get it
I cringe every time someone tries to sound cute or whatever that is. Do they not have any self-pride or respect for themselves to act like such a baby when they are fully grown independent human beings? I expect grown-ups to act mature and speak with confidence in their voice. It's just so cringe I'm never gonna understand what's going on in their mind
@Camellia J dude it has nothing to with misogyny or any of the things you mentioned, it's just a part of culture that has no deeper meaning. You realize men do aegyo too right? It's not even a gendered thing.
It's not even dehumanizing, what? You're just making it way more deep than it has to be....
If it were gendered and aegyo was used as a way to make girls seem innocent and pure and stuff then yeah you'd be right(and that does happen alot). But most of the time it's not that.
@@awawus you're turning this is into something way deeper or worse than it actually is.
1)aegyo is something both men and women do to an equal degree, it's not a gendered thing.
2)it's not a matter of self respect or anything, it's just supposed to be like a cute thing(though when overboard it can be cringy even for them).
3) you know how as a joke sometimes you'll look at your friends with an innocent face and puppy eyes to mess with them or get them to do something for them? This is literally that but more so.
4) there's literally studies that show that it is normal or even healthy for 2 people in a relationship to "act like children" in front of each other to lessen the stress of the real world by sharing it with each other..
@@ammarahmed4532 Define acting like children. Do you mean playing games? Because if it's attitude that's kinda weird and would be weird to see two full grown adults acting like that
22:25 used it in a sentence, such intellect, what a scholar. You are SOO above the fray.
I think this is interesting because my bf is Korean, and he has expressed that he’s glad kpop has become so popular bc the fetishization of Asian men actually makes him feel more confident in his appearance and culture, whereas when he was a child, he was bullied for it.
Damn.
yh that's the sad thing - fetishisation is often a welcome change to bullying. Wish minorities can just be seen as people
it's a double edged sword, on one hand Koreans finally have positive representation in the West, but on the other hand he's a walking fetish for some weird koreaboos that won't see him as a normal human.
@@ComedyGlor so true
opposite scenario but same experience here; I'm half asian and grew up in a verrrry white european region, and grew up with the belief that asianness equalled bullying and never having a chance with boys. Went to uni in a more international bigger city and suddenly every other Asian guy I met was excited to be acquainted, if not blatantly flirting. Of course this was due to the Asian fetishization of whiteness and the fact that my semi-whiteness seemed more attainable to them than a full-on blonde. It's a weird feeling.
i love rina sawayamas song ‘tokyo love hotel’, which is about her struggling to love her culture as a japanese british woman but now seeing everyone else fetishizing it and leaving her with a weird taste in her mouth and conflicted about the outcome… she also points out how now everyone is using japan for their aesthetics and how she is now contributing to the issue by writing ‘just another song about tokyo’… i think its such an interesting message, and she even seems to state that she wants it all back to the way it was because these people dont understand her country like she does
I think she has to accept that japanese is not her country and she doesn't own the culture.
I don't think Rina understands her country as much as she claims she does. Sure, she' a Japanese national on paper. But, she barely spoke any Japanese on her Japanese TV interviews. Japanese language is an integral part of Japanese culture. Even Japanese people see her as a foreigner. Not Japanese.
And who's fault is that? Hers or the people who don't understand what she was trying to say? I really hate this notion that creators need to take responsibility for how their work is recieved, as if the people that consume it have no will of their own and have no responsibility for their own actions.
_I don't wanna check into the Tokyo Love Hotel_
_I just want your love all to myself_
Man, that song should've been a single
@@PassionPno i don't understand that just because she didn't japanese in her interviews that means she doesn't understand her country? What an odd thing to say.
"Other countries in the east can be xenophobic, fetishizing and even racist to outside cultures as well" and "a lot of people in the US fetishize Korea and Japan in a way thats very appropriative and disrespectful to the actual cultures and this is bad" are two ideas that can coexist
Exactly, two things can be true at once. In fact they DO. I think it’s more people just not wanting to take accountability for the Fetishization that does exist.
Agree. I absolutely hate it when people use that first point to 'justify' racism towards Asians or silence them from speaking up about their experiences and act as if the latter point doesn't exist as a result of it. As an Asian myself, it frustrates me to no end.
Don't get me wrong, racism is very prevalent in the asian community and should be called out more. But when it's done on the basis of disguising hate speech and sneakily spreading bigotry about Asians is when it starts to become problematic.
As someone who's been learning Korean and trying to learn about their culture I've stumbled across many videos akin to these and I cant help but realize that this issue is very very nuanced and not just limited to East Asians, but every minority.
Every minority gets their turn in the "spotlight" to appeal to the western superpowers and the self-fetishization of it often goes overlooked and the west is portrayed as "evil" for sexualizing and obsessing over foreign cultures (I'm not saying the west isn't contributing to this issue, it is but it's not the only piece to it) The reality of the issue is that many cultures want to appeal towards the bigger crowd, to make themselves known to the world, of which often leads to them over simplifying or "Yassifying" their own culture. And due to this America and other similar countries gobble it up and accept this one sided idea of a foreign place because it's all that's been shown to them, it's meant to be an introduction to the foreign culture that's easier to process.
Of which often leads to American foreigners feeling disgusted by the "objectification" and they're valid in this, but many fail to realize that many of these stereotypes have been paraded around by their own culture and then sold to the West in a compact box for them to understand. But without this beginning process it would be very hard to ever reach a mutual understanding between foreign cultures, so while this isn't favorable at the given moment it could pay off in the long run to help us better understand one another.
Overall the issue is not black and white and is instead varying shades of grey, and as brought up in the video it may not be as bad as many portray it and self-fetishization can actually boost ones self confidence and is a way in taking pride in who you are or appreciate another's culture. But it can also lead to feeling gross or upset with yourself over your own identity.
Imo I feel as if this is more so the start of an emergence of "Cultural-Sharing/Exchange" rather than appropriation as what has occurred isn't mockery nor dishonoring East Asia(For the most part, their will always be people like Oli London) in fact many are just appreciating the aspects of the culture given to them and enjoying it, it's not coming from a malicious place but more so from a curious place and a want for more fluidity in culture. The further we separate and divide culture the more we tend to dehumanize or discriminate due to the unfamiliarity we have with it, we lack understanding or don't partake in it of which creates a gap between different races. But if we share and commune and enjoy one another's cultures it can create more peace and understanding, it isn't about washing away diversity or uniqueness but more so sharing our humanity and the human culture, showing that we all resonate from a same place in a sense, and making a higher culture we can all be apart of that shows the diversity of humanity.
Great comment with some real nuance
I'm Portuguese and Latin women in general do something similar as aegyo or kawaii, we call it "making eyes" (think Puss in Boots) to get the same outcome. It's not exclusive to East Asian cultures. There's a form of it in every culture.
'baby talk' was a thing for a long time in the west that fell out of fashion in the 70s.
Hey, stop being reasonable.
Your understanding of Aegyo seems not complete. Aegyo can be done by men. It's not just an action, it's also a characteristic. It's also not always acted. Some of it is innate. If you understand it fully, you'll see aegyo with everyone, including non koreans. It's only when you have a cultural understanding of it you can look for it. There is no way Latin culture has a equivalent. Latin culture has their own mannerism and social customs. But it shouldn't be grouped because in this context, it leads to generalization and appropriation. Let difference be difference.
@@Lorenzogino Which is good, because it's really... weird
@@Lorenzogino Its back my guy. they call it being a Little now
As someone who grew up in South East Asia, with East Asian heritage, I could say that the idea of "cultural appropriation" does belong to the west. It is true that people(at least in my country) here literally do not care if you want to dress in our traditional dress(we even commodify them lol). There are things that we tend to be more sensitive toward(eg religions), but we aren't that sensitive toward appearances. That being said, I could see why Asian-American would be more sensitive toward these kind of stuff. We are not minorities in our own countries, thus we don't face the kind of struggles you guys do everyday.
.
Regardless of whether this level of insensitivity/carelessness toward our own culture is good or not, this is what it is.
I agree, cultural appropriation is a very western thing, I can see why they feel that way but I am tired of westerners (especially Americans) forcing their opinion on the rest of the world. For example, some k-pop idols dressed up in traditional clothing of another country one time and all the Americans flooded the comment section saying how racist they were and "stealing other cultures" when there was no malicious intent behind it. I think there is a very big difference between an American white girl wearing box braids and a Korean girl wearing a traditional Thai dress for example. I think cultural appropriation has its place and should be addressed but I never understand why Americans take it so far and get upset over anything and everything and expect other countries to behave the same way they do.
@@Jess-ci8re yesss
@@Jess-ci8re I'm Asian-American and completely agreed.
@@Jess-ci8re Yes, I think sometimes westerners kind of take it a bit too far. There are so much westerners(i include all races) talking about Asian cultures, and then dismiss Asians who live in Asia. I am not saying Asian American are not a very real group who deserves to be heard, but i do feel like sometimes you guys just drop people in Asia out of the conversation entirely. At the end of the day, Asian culture originated from Asia, so I think what I say shouldn't be dismissed. (There were occasions where people online told me to mind my business, when they are talking about Asian culture AND i already stated that I am an Asian. They told me that because I didn't think something is "cultural appropriation", while they did.)
Culture could be a shared thing too, it is not black and white. Culture doesn't belong to one person. You should be respectful toward all cultures(yours, others), but gatekeeping is just... no. I also hated when people bombard someone's comment with things like "you are appropriating other cultures by wearing their dress". Like, that doesn't help. If it is your culture and they are being disrespectful, tell them politely. Tell them why it's not okay. Shouting at people who only try to APPRECIATE doesn't solve any problem.
@@Jess-ci8re I'm sorry but that's just a silly comparison. Wearing a traditional dress and wearing box braids isn't the same thing regardless of race. But I get your point, I remember when I was into kpop in like 2018 cringing at fans trying to explain CA, a concept that is deeply tied to western culture, to idols who couldn't even understand english. Like ik they mean well but it's so odd to see teenagers trying to scold 20yo adults like they're their little cousins.
perhaps another reason that “self fetishization” occurs among asian americans is a lack of connection to “original” asian culture - in a way, appearance becomes one of the central parts of asian americans’ experience of race/ethnicity/culture and thereby becomes a characteristic component of a novel asian american culture. this is also why cultural caricatures like rice (pretty ubiquitous across Asia, with most depictions relating to East Asian cuisine), anime (from Japan), or boba (from Taiwan) become the only real cultural commodities available to the “azn” community. i think it is possible to have reverence for native asian culture while also understanding asian american culture as being a distinct phenomenon
Yeah, like you still have to remember that original faux-thentic asian-American culture, especially the Chinese one being built on a melding of culture through immigration to the west. It’s separate but it’s not inauthentic.
you are so right omg
would there be a point to be made that this isn't just the sub-community of folks of Asian background?
huh rice isn't a cultural caricature exclusively from japan lol, other than that I agree with this statement
This is largely because the deeper, intangible parts of a culture (I argue, the more important elements) get wiped away in a few generations.
Mindset goes from collectivist to individualist, start thinking about personal rights more than responsibilities to others, start wanting new things instead of preserving the old, etc. The cultural values change. Even humor, sayings, cultural idioms go away.
All they have left after 2-3 generations is their food, and family stories. And then that starts to go away too- the children stop learning how to speak the language, cook the food, think in the old way.
At a certain point, the people become completely integrated- but they still look different, so they use that as a last hope to be part of the culture.
This is Americanization.
this video was very educational. opened my eyes to why old friends from school are the way they are. thank you for the content
I'm so lucky I found a bf who, despite being Japanese, finds (asian and non-asian) girls acting infantile cringe, but then again he was raised in the UK. In any case, it's still true, most Korean boys I've met find this aegyo thing attractive and they often complain that because of the rise of feminism in their country, less and less girls are doing aegyo for them so they don't like the strong female types because they don't do aegyo or act helpless for them anymore.
i can not imagine being a grown ass man and wanting a grown ass woman to pretend to be a child so that i may be interested
In your home country, Japan, feminism is taboo for Japanese women Did you know this?
I'm so disappointed in how some men and even women would call anything even slightly in disagreement with their view about women as feminism (not that it's bad). It's only those basic rights whether minor or major. And if they don't like it, the just start blaming feminism. Wow women aren't our slaves anymore, we can't have them how we want.. therefore it's feminism's fault!
Disappointing..
I’m a South Korean bisexual guy, and I find women doing aegyo cringe but I like it when men (and myself when with women) do it. I don’t think aegyo or liking aegyo itself should be a bad thing. The way you present it makes it seem like a simple “female infantilisation” thing, but it has more nuance than that.
It’s like what Olivia said; You’re judging it from a Western perspective with no understanding of how it’s actually used within East Asian countries.
@@anomienormie8126 Honestly it's not from a Western perspective on my part, it's on a trauma perspective. My very limited exposure to aegyo reminds me specifically of age regression, I can't say anything about it just that it seems to be the "east" s counter part to the trad wife, just a lot more specific and honest about itself.
As a latina I agree that my way of being “cute” has become a way to pass through uncomfortable situations with men. I don’t know if this is empowering me or not, but it really changes the behaviour and sometimes I feel I battle between not being an “hot latina” vs a “cute Latina “. I wish I there was a middle in between 😫 but I do it unconsciously.
Me too hermana ✋
Ngl just live the way you think is right
It's situational.
@@Jixsurez 💖💖💖💖
That wouldn’t work with me, every time a girl tries to act “baby cute” I subconsciously think Trauma/No Childhood.
If I had to give my best guess why Asian Americans are a bit more touchy toward cultural appropriation than non Americans it would probably be America's history of actively trying to destroy any immigrant culture.
Just one example of many would be when the Chinese immigrants who helped build the railways were simply murdered and their communities burned down.
I'd be a bit mad too.
True, then you got the Native Americans who get almost wiped out (at least my Tribe), and now Native culture is popular somewhat (clothing such as moccasins, religious items such as dream catchers, Native symbolism.) This is not to shame, nor say anything wrong about people who like those things, just rather, it's good to understand the backstory and history behind not only the people but the items you're so fond of.
Now they do the opposite. Like when Disney tried to OWN Day of the Dead and had some shenanigans about tattoos/skirt belonging to them because of Moana.
Which is why I went into Encanto/TR being critical.
@@PeterPan-xe7qw "native culture is popular somewhat"
That's a stretch, maybe a few years ago but that stock has plummeted with the death of the hippies
@@Shockguey I’m just trying to give my perspective on the issue. Really gotta be that dude. 😐
Stories of similar happening to Irish as well, they'd been a popular 'punching bag' in America for a long time,
but that's been largely forgotten about mostly because, lets be real, they're white. You can even add the Scottish in the south, but they managed to form large communities and essentially shelter/protect themselves pretty quickly in comparison, in saying that they were that disliked because of their rowdiness and disregard for authority nobody really tried to stop them. Classism was a huge problem in America's early days, as it was here in the early formation of Australia where there wasn't any regard for the lower class what so ever and treated less than human and many were forced in to slavery for rich individuals and business owners in the colonies, as were the native Aboriginals.
Thanks you. I really liked tour point of view on this issue Being my self a K-pop fan and Korea language learner, some of this questions come frequentou to my mind
I'm half White and half Asian, and I have felt embarrassed being with my parents in public because it feels (and there have been times this has been confirmed) that people think that my parents marriage is also based on a fetish and not love. People have straight up gone to my mother and said they have more money to offer her as if that is the reason why she is with my dad. I think fetishization is degrading, because often there is a lot of racism behind it. I'm not saying you can't have a preference for Asian men/women, but fetishizing is something else entirely.
i would say preference has the same effect
@@antonellan6794 howso?
@@GlitchPredator prefering a race or ethnicity simply bc of the aesthetic, appearance, does not open our eyes to the person. I think being attracted to features like hair, personality, voice, is better than just doing it bc you prefer a black or white or asian man/woman, i doubt i am getting my point across, but I personally see the whole preference thing to be better suited for things like height, or being fat or not.
@@antonellan6794 I partly agree in the case of someone using it as a prerequisite. In the case that I speak of, I mean natural preference that is out of your control. Asin if you like certain noses, maybe some races have plenty of them.
@@GlitchPredator i like to think of it as how the features of the face fall in place together, not just bc one ethnicity or race has a certain type of nose or eye color. i hope that makes sense :) :p
i remember being made fun of when i was a kid for being chinese and korean just because i was different, and then all of a sudden the cultures were embraced and loved and praised in the west. at first, i was happy more people could enjoy my cultures, but pretty soon i realized a lot of what you said in the video happening and felt weirdly grossed out and uncomfortable with myself. i grew up in america and there’s quite a bit of fetishization here unfortunately
there is different type of racism. negative or " positive" both of them are bad.
i went through the same.
during the 90s and early 00s everyone were so rude to me. calling me bruce lee, ching chong and slurs.
but from 2010 to now things changed to them being super obsessed asking about koreans.
girls wanting to date me only because i look like a kpop star to them.
im from argentina, many argentinians asking me to hook them up with korean girls and is so damn creepy.
the awful stereotype of asians being exotic things to own or experience it seems is never going to go away. we went from being the joke to being their object to own or experience.
same, I was the only half-korean kid in a class full of white kids and it was not welcomed at all in the early 2000s
felt really weird when all of a sudden everyone flipped the switch and started treating me really well just because I'm asian :/ many interactions with koreaboos who would compliment me just for that
@@6aturday that’s what i’m saying. it’s such a weird phenomenon
When I was younger, I had little friends because I was Chinese and Korean. But after I grew into highschool and the popularity of Asian culture and anime and stuff, people were a lot nicer than they were before 😢
I'm half Filipina, and grew up in the US. I experience a lot of Asian fetishization growing up in the 2010s that made me want to be seen and stop being seen at the same time. Also, I noticed recently that I don't get the "what are you" question as much anymore but started to get "I wish I was mixed with something 🥺". It makes me feel weird and not want to tell anyone what my background is
I think this is something we do everywhere. I'm Latina and in my country they are either super racist/xenophobic towards foreigners or they make them a fetish/idiolization. In here saying "Europeans stink" or "Chinese people are dirty" or "Arabs are all aggresive" is common. I hate that some people believe ALL of the world's issues are the "white man's fault" when not at all. The same issues exist everywhere. The more we open up to each other and foster curiosity instead of just going from what "we know" which is usually rooted in ignorance the better we will understand each other. My family is from Hungary, from the US, from Mexico, from Australia, from Aruba, and from Venezuela. My eyes are almond shaped and I adore Japanese and Korean culture. I'm a Buddhist, practiced karate, and I'm learning the languages. I don't see them as perfect and I know they have a lot of issues just like my culture and country. It's not all about racism...sometimes it's about ignorance.
You are a Koreaboo. Maybe take an interest in your own culture. Put down those kpop lightsticks and raise your Country's flag. You do know that Asians are highly amused by people like you right?
Yes, people need to talk about racism in Latin america, I bet you know how it is in my country, Argentina.
I have a good quote for you.
Arrogance Breeds Ignorance.
People will refuse to listen or change their opinion as long as they think they are right. It's why the world will never change
And that why latin America is such an economic powerhouse of a continent oh wait
@@alecgurney9305 do you think USA and Russia aren't racist ?
The type of video I like to have on the background. Quite informative 🤌
I was adopted from Korea at a very young age, my parents are Italian and Irish and from a young age I knew I looked different as well. As I became older and media started to focus on Asian beauty, (kpop, k dramas, anime, douyin, etc) I finally felt seen. I started to feel proud of my dark brown eyes and the almost pitch black hair I once hated and always wanted to change. But I soon realized, even though I had the features, my heart was different. My mind was different, my values were different. I started to realize how tan I got and I hated it because pale skin in Asia is admired. People have always asked me my whole life where I was from. The people at school, the Chinese ladies at the nail salon, the Korean man at a local store. I’d always say “oh I’m Korean!” but I always felt guilty for saying that because I didn’t feel like I was Korean enough. I definitely feel imposter syndrome but I also feel so very out of place in both sides. I look and feel very different than my family here but I don’t fit in with Koreans that grew up in that culture either. This video really made sense of the feelings I’ve had. Finally my features that had been put down for years in favor of a European beauty standard was being admired and then I saw people who didn’t look like me trying to imitate the features I had that people had once discriminated against and I felt angry. Like a feeling of hey, this is my identity, this body is the only connection I have that’s strong to my roots and if anyone can just look like this, what do I have? I’ve had a very hard time trying to find what place I fit in with. I’m still not sure but thank you for helping me realize why I’ve felt the way I have.
The problem with white people adopting children from other groups is that they don't acknowledge the challenges the adopted child faces in a predominant white society nor do they try to help them stay connected with their culture. I hate that this happens. These parents need to make more of an effort to help adopted children of other races learn and stay connected with their culture to help them embrace their own identity and value.
wow, I can relate to your comment so much. I'm not adopted, but I'm half German and half Indian and was born and grew up in Germany mostly with my German mother, only seeing my dad during holidays. I always felt kinda different from my white classmates in elementary school and kindergarten, especially when people started asking me where I'm from or where my name is from. I always felt kinda guilty saying I'm half Indian because I felt like I didn't deserve to call myself that. Ofc I experienced some different cultural aspects than others whenever I was with my dad and Indian family, but that's only a very small part of my life. Most of the time, I feel like a normal German girl who can't really fit in anywhere and knows nothing about "her culture", whatever that might be. When I saw South Asian girls in media, I first started to finally feel represented and proud in some way, but then again I felt guilty because I was so different from them and I would wish to be more like them. Tbh, I never wanted to look blond or white, as a kid I loved it when people used to compliment my dark long thick hair and my light brown skin (in contrast, it felt weird when I visited India at 9 years old and everyone was complimenting me on my green-blue-gray-ish eyes and European facial features) but I always wanted to fit in, since in Germany I've always been the half Indian girl and in India I was just the German girl (my hopes of fitting in there more were crushed haha). As a result, I've always felt imposter syndrome and the only time when I felt like my differences are good, was when my features were fetishized (my skin, hair and full lips in Germany and my blue eyes, my nose, thin-ish eyebrows etc. in India), because other than that, I am often just seen as an outsider. Today I don't really care about it that much anymore, but it's interesting to think about why I always felt that way.
@@joshina4497 yesyesyes I lived in Germany my whole life and my mum's dad is Indian. But me, my brother and my mom have absolutely no connection to India. We don't speak an Indian language, we've never even been to India and we don't know any of our family except for my grandpa who still lives in Germany but remarried an Indian woman.
The only "connection" we have (if you can even call it that) is how we look and Indian food, which is really the only thing my grandpa taught my mum about her heritage.
And it feels really weird to be caught between "Indian-but-not-Indian-enough" and "white German girl with no cultural roots outside of europe"
with Italian and Irish I'm guessing you mean Italian-American and Irish-American? (can't tell how far removed they might be from that origin? like did they grow up there? do they live there?)
I'm also adopted from Korea into an American family and felt the exact same!!!! It took me a while to feel comfortable as myself, I completely understand
let's just take a moment to appreciate how well researched this video is. i'm extremely glad to see somone so well spoken and inntellignet give a serious take on this important topic. a good refresher form the heaps of weeabo/koreaboo cringe videos out there. well done
a take , wheter that take is true or false is up for debate
I agree!! I like looking at the comment section for even more perspectives and nuances, but she definitely did a lot of research and shared what she knew very well.
Just found her channel and I really appreciate her well researched videos.
My only critique to this video would be, that Edward Said's Orientalism refers to what is known as the "Middle East" & North Africa or the Islamic World, and not about all of Asia.
As someone living in Taiwan, I would say that your understanding of the “cute culture” is mostly correct. It is EXTREMELY important for a lot of people that they are able to do “sagiou 撒嬌 “
We are taught since small that we have to do 撒嬌sometimes in order to get/achieve something or appease someone. A good example is children are asked to act cute to receive a red envelope on Chinese New Year. And this becomes a STRATEGY after we get older.
In my country for example, 撒嬌can be a love language or a way to defuse conflict or even ask for something in a less demanding way. 撒嬌works on the bases of “because I showed you this side of me that’s less professional/logical and more embarrassing/childish/likable, you would less likely to refuse me, and would be more willing to make exceptions because you like me more. “ in a way this can be viewed as “acting inferior”. On the other hand, it sometimes is a smart way to get people to like you quicker so you can get what you what. Most of the cases, doing 撒嬌isn’t manipulative. Also it is expected more in intimate relationships or when it comes to someone more superior in standing, age or resource.
To my understanding, this expectation comes from the traditional expectation towards women because traditionally men like to feel capable, superior, dependable. The traditional culture actively teaches and constrict women so that they are this way and thus more desirable and cultured. And because children are in nature the receiver of care and dependent on others, gradually women are expected to act the same way because they would like you more.
In modern society, the traditional expectations on women sometimes still exist in relationships while a more masculine behavior is expected in workplace and schools. But where there’s people, there’s relationships. So often this is a contradicting state where you have to be passive and aggressive at the same time. So sometimes, 撒嬌is a smart way to fulfill this expectation where we are expected to be weak sometimes, but outside of those times, we get to be intelligent and competitive. As for men, this expectation started expanding onto them due to women’s demands of a more companionate and sensitive partner. And we view 撒嬌as a sign that you are willing to be different from what’s expected by the society and maybe a sign to show that you have the ability to stand on the lower ground instead of always fighting to have the upper hand in a relationship. Also this is partly because women tend to mother those who are cute and dependent. Thus the marketing strategy to portray male idols as cute and sexy at the same time.
Very very interesting take
This was insightful
I’m glad this came up on my feed, funny these points were what made me not click on your videos because I was thinking “another Asian girl acting cute on TH-cam for simps”. I’m was so wrong and thank you for even making realize my own inherent biases as a Chinese person
I come from a psychology background, where the term “fetishization” was basically just a more extreme form of “objectification”. Everyone wants to be objectified (to a point). Even if you are the rare person who does not want your body to be desired, you want your mental ability or your work ethic to be admired.
People want to have something about them that is more valuable than what another person has/is. That is “self-objectification” and is the reason we never will get rid of objectification (because to an extent, we want it). That said, there are limits to the objectification that we want, and we also want our personhood to be what matters most.
The complications come in how the limits to our desired objectification are always shifting, and are generally completely unknowable from the outside. This is why society will always have an objectification problem.
Then we bring back in the connection to minority cultures (“fetishization”) or really any cultures, and we add another layer of complexity that also escalates conflict because of how loaded the histories and concepts are.
What I’m kind of saying is that there is no one possible solution because there is no one stable problem. People want different things at different times. As long as someone “wants to be beautiful” they want to be valued as an object to an extent. We can choose not to give them that desired objectification and only acknowledge their personhood, but that is not generally what they want when they ask “how do I look?”.
commenting because this is an insightful comment and I want to save it.
@@chocolate104495 I'll reply to help you get that notification (^^)
It sounds like people want validation and self worth not so much objectivity, in which the former has been a struggle for many young children/ young adults trying fit in or find themselves yet told by society to be a certain way or be rejected.
This coming from and Aro/Ace with very little to no sexual drive, I have never seen people as objects and I have never looked at a certain body part or feature as desirable, I'm not blind to beauty either. Do I have pride for my own features yes but that doesnt make me better then anyone, my only desire is to truly be equals to other people as simply another human. I understand equality comes in many forms like maturity or intellect but the difference doesnt make a person more or less. I guess what it boils down to is acceptance of the self, if people accept their features and roots they wouldn't be looking else were but again society as deemed specific features better then others, whatever is the trend
I agree, throughout the whole video the one thing that kept popping up in my mind, was if Fetishization was really the word that should be used to describe what she was discussing. Of course it fits the theme but what she described wasn't as extreme as fetishization but more objectification, which like you mentioned we all do to some extent and won't be stopped anytime soon as it's almost inherit. Also the business side of all it is extremely important.
😲
Honestly, I always thought cultural appropriation was a shifty topic. If I look Asian, being Chinese, for example, I can do Korean makeup and wear a Kimono? A white girl wouldn't be able to, but we probably have the same amount of knowledge about kimonos and korean makeup.
Makeup is makeup, anyone can do whatever style they like lol. Kimonos, as long as they’re worn with respect. Then it’s all cultural appreciation, not appropriation
Japanese people who were born and raised in Japan appreciate it when non-Japanese people wear kimonos. The same goes for South Koreans, Chinese/Vietnamese/Desi… people.
Only in the U.S. they‘ve got a problem with it.
Whats the occasion for wearing it tho. I have nothing against kimono but Imo if you wear it, asian or not, to go to Uni or drink a coffee at 4pm in the west, you'll just look stupidly overdressed.
@@quentinlelievre276 having a sense of where and when is appropriate to do something is universal. If someone does not have that…it’s unfortunate then
@@Okk681 It's not actually
Always found it bizarre that some people extend the definition of fetishisation to cover purely attraction to physical traits.
It's not at all fetishisation to be attracted to Asian people because of their eyes or skin etc, its no different to liking blonde hair more than brown. it only becomes fetishisation imo if you are linking to their ethnicity some kind of personality or other traits which you expect to be inherently to them, submissiveness for example.
exactly my opinion!
There eyes are ugly but because they are re so insecure they will claim people want “Asian eyes”
That's actually a good point. Thinking they're better parnters, more submissive, or have some certain personality particular to them is crossing the lines of fetishization and a preference. It can easily get out of hand when you bring race aspect up like "they're superior, they can produce better kids, etc". Physical traits like eye shape, hair, body shape, smell, skin color can traced to differences in race. Liking certain physical aspects like those is fine imo.
Thank you! As a white guy whose 'type' is Hispanic/black/mixed women I find it annoying have to deal with this "fetishing" accusation. If my type was blondes no one would rush to assume I was fetishing but if I like a Hispanic women based on physical preferences suddenly there are issues. It's exhausting and annoying defending myself against what I see as anti-interracial marriage bs. People from different races can love each other. Get over it.
@@Trilobita98 I mean i’m hispanic and I feel like it’s a bit weird to only look for people of certain races, instead of just being attracted to certain things. bc being hispanic is a culture too.. I’m kinda split on this whole thing becayse I understand prefrences but now im imagining a white person refusing to date a person who isint white and it ends up getting kinda confusing. I think focusing on certain traits not culture makes more sense and is what the original commenter is saying
I enjoy your educated based presentation and discussion, as well as reference to articles and authors. Keep posting please.
as an iranian it literally annoys me sm when someone tells me im not asian JUST because i don’t look like a kpop model.
interesting take. Most Iranians i know don't say "im asian" they say "im iranian/persian" (persian when older) and if asked where it is they usually say "in middle east" and that's as far as it goes. But it really is West Asia. I think it just feels new for people to say it outright now.
Same for me as a Moroccan. I'm not African because I'm not black
@@congratulashuns yeah true. i do understand that most people would say middle east and i say it too sometimes
@@congratulashuns we’re all asians it’s just that asian is usually associated with like Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and of such
@@pokoirlyase5931 you know you can be African without being black right? The two are not mutually exclusive…
I think there is also something else to say about the “East Asian”. I’m Laotian and I feel like I’ve been “othered” by my Chinese and Korean friends at times, more so in high school where they were so obsessed with their ethnicity and the surface level of their culture. I also see it a lot in Korean idol media when there is a Thai member in a group, so at least from my perspective, that only reinforced my conclusions about how the “East Asian” idea being used among Asians.
Agreed! I also feel this way as a Taiwanese person that I’m lumped in with the “East Asia” because of the way I look even though I identify very little with Korean and Japanese cultures (and only partly with Chinese.)
I know that feeling all too well and I'm Laotian too. It's like being an outsider in a way. If you're not one of the cool East Asian ethnicity's its like being invisible. I feel pressured to fit into their beauty standards cause I enjoy being mistaken as East Asian but its also like impostor syndrome
@@luckystarberry I'm sending virtual hugs rn
@@luckystarberry sending virtual hug too!
@@luckystarberry i feel you . i was mistaken several times for being fully japanese when i visited japan, and after that encounter and falling into the kpop hole, i was pressured to whiten my skin and look more korean/japanese . it didn't help that the korean wave was absolutely invading skincare and makeup in my country
its genuinely crazy how far people take things, like asian culture is really cool , I agree with that and i’ve been watching anime myself for about 6-7 years now. but to go so far as to act like a different race, its actually mind blowing and honestly a little sad that people can’t accept themselves for the race or ethnicity they already are
same, I genuinely enjoy Asian culture but seeing people going that far, it kinda makes me ashamed for enjoying culture the way I used to in fear of being lumped in the same group as these extremists.
I hope I am wrong, but in 10 years from now this behavior will be encouraged, called race dysmorphia and there will be race transitioning surgeries. There will be an respective LGBT community, just for race
@@serenityssolace Oh lord…..
@@serenityssolace i dont dout it. honestly even seems like something that would be encouraged because of capitalism, just as people are encouraged to do plastic surgery for every little thing, it would be very lucrative to put some racial features on the spotlight, make everyone change themselves to look like it, and then change the spotlight to another race. Just like we do with body types now basically
@@shslsomething8195 Yeah. Exactly! It's all about the profit! Spot on!
So, I might misunderstand this topic completely, but it's interesting to me and something I came across a few times now on the internet, but I didn't really agree or understand it. It was mainly on Reddit posts where someone was specifically looking for an South East-Asian girlfriend/boyfriend/friends and some people res *ponde* d with comments how this is fetishizing South East-Asians. But at that point I wondered what exactly is the difference between fetishizing and simply having a preference. I got blonde hair and blue eyes, I had plenty of people in my lifetime mention those particular features as something they are interested in, but I only took that as a preference. The same way I like certain looks, hairstyles, behaviors or characteristics more. And I take this "fetish" more as a package deal, either by saying "Yea I like all included" or saying "they cross most of the checklist, so I focus on them".I also understand this to a certain degree: I grew up around a certain type of people and some other people are exotic to me. I wouldn't call this fetishizing and not even a preference, just that there is something special about it that I am not used to, which is also not always positive.
I do believe there are definitely people that fetishize certain groups and in an objectifying way, but I don't think this just applies to anyone who looks for someone specific, including same-type people that look within a group they belong to.
Saying "Me as a person is not just limited to " is definitely legitimate, but I wonder if this is the right place to use that. Like let's say someone has a particular interest in buff or fit body types, if we take this in the field of dating and not...other things, then I would say no one dates *just* for that, but either as a "has to be included" or "gives big bonus points".
Or maybe my actual issue of understanding this might be related to me expecting there is a reasonably high amount of people doing that, so the only way it makes sense to me is to include everyone in this, while in reality this refers to the minor part that "I just want South-East Asian but with this picture I have in my mind and I don't even care if you still breath" type of people. But then I'd wonder if this group is even significant enough to get noticed