Largest V8s You've Never Heard Of: The LeRoi 844/884 Cubic Inch Gas V8 (in Mack M123/125 10T trucks)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.พ. 2024
- Learn more about this rare--and VERY large--series of V8 engines, found in generators, industrial equipment and Mack M123/125 10 ton trucks!
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I was a truck driver in Vietnam and I remember these well. I drove a deuce and a half, but these would travel in convoy with us. I can tell you that the open exhaust on these fired straight out to the side, and would absolutely blow a Vespa right over! They sounded glorious!
The engine Ford made for the Sherman tank was a flat plane crank, dual overhead cam 1,100ci V-8 in 1940. That was a beast.
The Ford GAA engine was a 60 degree all aluminum V8. Those two facts are due to the original engine the GAC being a V12 aircraft engine that Ford designed as an alternative to the Allison V-1710 or Packard V-1650 but that the War Department never asked for nor adopted.
@@patrickshaw8595 yup
Yes. I have a video on it
Fun fact..ford has another all aluminum dohc 60° V8...the 3.4l Yamaha developed piece in 94-96(?) Taurus SHO
@timothybayliss6680 that SHO engine was an awesome engine, the earlier version was a V6. Amazing that Ford went from the tank engine and then put flathead and push rod engines in their cars after such an advanced engine design.
That intake manifold is a dual plane intake. The intake runners just look more prominent due to the fact that this engine uses stand alone manifold with a separate valley cover, where most V engines incorporate the valley cover into the intake manifold. You can see where each plane of the manifold feeds the two inner cylinders on one bank, and the two outer cylinders on the other. On a cross ram manifold each plane usually feeds one entire bank on one side, while the other plane crosses over to feed the other. I love your videos, and have binge watched almost all of them by now. LOL! Please keep 'em coming!
The Buick 215 from memory has a seperate valley cover, well at least the Leyland 4.4L V8 version (alloy like the 215 but the same deck height as the Buick 340) did
@@mickvonbornemann3824 Pontiac V8s all had separate valley covers and intake manifolds.
My father was in the national guard sometime between 1956 & 1963. He always loved telling me about the LeRoi 944 V8, I'm guessing he was off on the size. He said it was in a vehicle known as a "tank retriever". I don't know what kind of gearing and transmissions these things had, but they could retrieve a tank supposedly, hence the name(what do I know, Ive never seen one). His favorite part of the story, was telling people it got 2 gallons to the mile. They would reply "you mean 2 miles to the gallon". Dad would say "nope, 2 gallons to the mile"😂 My gosh I keep learning by subscribing to Adam's channel. LeRoi had been part of Westinghouse air brake, and thats where the name "Wabco" comes from (?) Oh man does the name Wabco on the side of something bring back old memories
I appreciate some of these dives into the more obscure.
As an European and having had an Opel sedan with a 1.0 liter engine, the first time i saw the 455 ci engine of the 73 Oldsmobile 98, wich I owned in 1982 in the US, I thought it was enormous...
We were lucky😊. Back then, just get a straight pipe to replace the catalytic converter, and those big detuned engines were still impressive if they were running right (and no longer choking to death once you removed the converter)
@@Sheisthedevilyouknowwho-ft9we My Oldsmobile 98 being from 1973 was not yet catalysed. The catalytic converter was first adopted on the 1975 model.
@@ferrochinabisleri1587okay, understood. I'm remembering the blue 1975 Bonneville we had. My dad worked & worked on it. He said "I finally wondered if it was the catalytic converter, I took it off, went for a drive, and she took off like a scalded ape."
Back in the day I had two Cadillac's, a Fleetwood with a 500 and the other a Coupe Deville with the 472. I also had an Old's Delta 88 and Pontiac Grandville with 455's. I also had a Mercury Marquis with a 460. They were all torque monsters and tire roasters and gas hogs too..
455 with supur glide tranny
One of my favorite channels on TH-cam. Love hearing about the history. Just recently bought a 1974 Thunderbird with the same 460 you talked about in the beginning!
Nick, I also have a 1974 Thunderbird, bought in 2020.
@@HemiChryslerI have a 74 Lincoln mk4 with the 460. Unfortunately, about a month ago she overheated and roasted the piston rings, but hey, perfect opportunity to build a stroker for it. Hot rod Lincoln time!!!😂😂
Congratulations!
Id reccomend looking into the hall scott line of engines they were used in large semis and even applyed to millitary vehicles like the m25 dragon wagon
I remember the largest V8 Engine powered the M4 Sherman was the FORD GAA 88 .
They also had giant Overhead Cam v12s way back in the 50s. Super interesting stuff
It looks like that single cylinder engine ran a dual plug setup. Cool video Adam. I love this kind of stuff.
One unique feature of the M123 was the differential braking lever that allowed the driver to brake the rear wheels on either side individually like a farm tractor in order to make tighter turns. And you really needed that in soft going because the rear tires outnumbered the front tires four to one. I don't know if differential braking was truly unique to the M123 but it was the only truck I've ever driven that had that feature.
There's no replacement for displacement.
Turbo
Yes, there is: MORE displacement 👍
But heh, what crime are the manufacturers currently committing against the American icon: All V8s seem to disappear.
As someone who drives a big block Chevy 😂
@@killer1963daddy Turbos are great for reducing engine life through excessive heat and oil degradation, and help lighten your savings account by forcing you to have an engine you don't need.
Give me two extra cylinders ANYDAY over an overwhelmed, undersized and under-engineered turbo.
@@67marlins You got it! Mine is 5.0L V8 420hp, naturally aspirated. Enough torque, no turbo shit. 6 years old, and I won’t trade it in for the new 3.8L V6 twin turbo. But since I am retired, I’ve only put 12k miles on it so far. So still some life left, before plastics and electronics will rise their ugly heads.
After Le Roi was bought out by Waukesha, they renamed them RoiLine, and they were produced up until the mid-1970's. They used a lot of the 884's on big standby generators for hospitals and such, usually running them on propane or natural gas.
I've seen a video of a guy that got ahold of one of those I think (been years since I've seen it) I don't know if he rebuilt it or what (I think he did) Then he ran it straight off of his house supply of natural gas right after the meter. Wasn't enough to give it too much throttle. But it did run and ran smoothly. Thing of beauty.
Up here in Canada the oil companies use 169.6L natural gas engines built by Caterpillar. And also a 8.8L turbocharged propane powered GM based engines what I thought were pretty sool. The heat those giant engines produce is crazy.
Something like the 3508 or 3608 's . They have a 3616 also
I had a 78 Eldorado with the 425 and it was plenty powerful. Really smooth engine. I never heard of Le Roi. Thanks for this video.
-I was just about to mention that looking at a spark plug diagram at a K Mart in the 1980's I saw that there was a listing for a 534 cubic inch engine....But then you covered it.
Great video!
You probably know this already, but light aircraft routinely run 550 cubic inch and 580 cubic inch air cooled SIX CYLINDER engines; This is done so that they can make 300+ hp at only 2700 rpm, the maximum speed for propellers [Direct drive is standard, for reliability and weight issues]. If they go beyond 2700 rpm, they run the risk of exceeding the speed of sound and producing only noise and drag. The pistons of these engines look like coffee cans~
So propellers themselves "break the sound" barrier at 2700 rpm or the entire plane? Just curious as it does make sense but Im wondering why other "things" (pistons, driveshafts, etc) which regularly exceed 2700rpm on passenger autos dont seem to run into this same issue?
Hall-Scott made 1500+ cubic inch six, eight, and twelve gasoline engines, and were built almost without regard to cost. Very, very well made engines, also very thirsty.
There is a pretty good immediate post war company movie on You Tube.
Great work as always. I'm really glad you save the 'everyman' cars -4 doors, wagons, etc. you'd think the 40s-70s were just coupes and musclecars if you go to car shows these days. Most of it was sedans and wagons.
The Le Roi engines were smooth running engines, i ran one as an irrigation engine during the early 90's. Replaced it with a 855 Cummins natural gas due to not being economical to rebuild. My father had one that was twin turbocharged but broke a crankshaft after being put together because it was not up to the extra horsepower
The “small engine mechanic” channel had a generator project on that big 884 I believe. A total monster. Funny the name of his channel because he works on some giant old gen sets.
I was thinking of that series of videos, but couldn't remember if it was this engine. Everyone should go watch those videos and just listen to the thing.
@@OnTheRocks71it is the same engine. The leroi division of Westinghouse was bought in 1958 by Waukesha engine company, who changed the leroi name to roiline. The last roiline engines were built in 1974.
He's actually a tall engine mechanic
Great channel, Mike knows his stuff. His 884 is natgas, so he had to call the gas guy to run a line for him. It's a total riot watching this dude run such an enormous goddamned engine OFF HIS GAS METER in his suburban New Jersey neighbourhood. Don't mind me folks, just powering up my hospital back-up generator! *waves*
Our fire deportment purchased 10 FWD cabover fire engine chassis with this engine. Fire body built by Coast. Good performers. Great service history.
LeRoi Jenkins.
Dammit Le Roi!
In 1988, the wife and I bought a 21 ft Sea Ray. And don't you know the main reason I bought 'REBEKAH RENEE' was when I lifted the engine cover, looking back at me was a Chevrolet small block 400. And boats DID NOT HAVE any of that emission controls. Plus topping it ofg was a Holley 4 bbl. That motor was so strong, I was talking to a guy at the marina was cruising a jet boat I asked him if he would run with me so I could see just how fast she would go, we did, hr said it got up to 47 mph. Plus it would yank and I mean yank 4 skiers out of the water without any hint of hesitation. Bad ass motor. My dad and my uncle owned a 1953 Chris Craft Continental with s Chrysler 440 with 3 2 bbl's supplying the air and fuel.thst boat had a tach and speedometer. Heavy heavy boat
But9 she'd cruise all day at 34 mph, no problem and would touch 40 mph when he pushed her. When he did, you could literally watch the gas guage drop as we cruised along.
Folks have a Supra 24' with a 400hp SBC. The upgrade option for that year was a 8.1L. Dad said he rode in one, and you could watch her guzzle if you opened her up. Could pull 6 hydrofoilers though.
Dad had the big Ole bronze prop on her- wouldn't go over 40mph at redline, but it'd rip the damn handle out of your hands if the drive took "Hit it!" seriously. Ballsy boat. Good memories.
You are excellent at explaining automotive history. I have enjoyed ever video you have made. Keep up the good work.
I volunteer at an automotive museum in Allentown, PA as a decent and assistant to the exhibit chairman so I find your videos very interesting and entertaining.
Thanks for what you do.
Rich
Awesome. Very cool.
That Engine was a Monster
I worked in a Mack Truck parts warehouse for many years and remember seeing the gas engine parts in stock
Another very interesting engine video, Adam. Keep 'em coming!
Don’t forget about the International 549 V8
The big Ford and IH gasers were great engines 👍
Or the International 605.
Funny we give GM shit for converting there olds engine to diesel but International used there big gas engines as a platform for there up and coming V8 diesels and it worked out pretty good
Don't forget about the ford/cat collaboration on the 636 V8 diesel. In all actuality it was a 3208 naturally asperated engine that was painted ford blue. Rated at 225 hp iirc. I have a ford C750 with an 1150 cat engine, 573 cubes and 200 hp.
@alexinnewwest1860 To be fair, the early 6.9 diesel had head gasket issues too, that were later resolved with bigger bolts when displacement was increased to 7.3. Of course the 6.9 was still a MUCH better engine than any of the Olds diesels, and also Chevrolet's 6.2/6.5.
The Olds diesel program would've gone better if the spent some more time on R&D, and hadn't introduced their engines prematurely. They weren't ready yet! Bigger/better head bolts/studs, and a good fuel/water separation system would've made the Olds diesel story much brighter 🌞 in my opinion.......
Just imagine what a good engine shop could do with an engine like that. I guarantee there’s way more than 300 horsepower hiding in there.
The channel SmallEngineMechanic has a video with some load tests of a big generator based on a "RoiLine" 884 cubic inch gas v8 - seems to be this engine by the looks of it. He had to take it to his workplace for load testing, the gas supply at his house would only allow running at idle...
Le Roi also made great portable air compressors.
My favorite was a 4 banger that ran on two cylinders and compressed on the other two.
They also made giant compressors that were powered by the big V8 engine.
The US Military was their largest market.
A beast ! Keep up the great vids on cool old stuff.
They make a sound that you never forget very distinctive sound
My parents had a 74 Cadillac with a 472 CID. It got 16mpg at 100mph.
Great mud riding car back in the day 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I didn't know a Caddy with a 472 even got 16mpg at normal highway speed!
@@jaydlytning Theirs did.
@@jaydlytningThe petrol back then was a higher energy content unlike today's watered down e formulas.
You could recreate the experience if you can get a tankful of 110 Avfuel.
Today that same car burning today's e85 etc would be around 6mpg.
Of course going downhill back to 16😊
Enjoyed it very much.
I spent 10 years in the 80s in Lehigh Valley Pennsylvina. I new a lot of Mack employees and they praised the company. It was an engineering company that would pretty much build whatever a customer wanted so long as the quanity made it profitable. How about a video on sleeve valve engines?
@garyruark9506: I've been a Mack Truck mechanic for 27 years and the "Mack" you speak of is dead. I first busted knuckles on Mack "B" and "R" models in my early years....they were true beasts that could drive thru a building while hauling a full load without blinking a headlight. The Mack trucks I work on today are nothing more than glorified Volvos with a few bulldogs stuck to them. The only part of the modern Mack Granite series I work on most that is truely still "MACK" is the camelback rear suspension, they rest of it is Volvo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Mack name is killed off all together by the end of the decade. When Mack dies, that will be my "cue" to retire.
One I’d like to see is the flat twelve engine in the 1940s white busses and trucks. I’ve ridden in one of the busses at the Illinois Railway museum
Exhausting out the top of the block would be an advantage for crossing deep water conditions, e.g. fording rivers etc. The same reason the H1 Hummer has top exhaust.
Good call!
Thank you Adam. I have never heard of this engine.
It looks like the exhaust manifolds are water cooled, so the heating of the intake manifold would have been minimized. Certainly an interesting design!
Interestingly, an even larger gasoline engine was sold in US over the road trucks in the 50's and 60's, and it was an overhead cam straight six - the Hall Scott 1090 CID six was a monster engine, and often came equipped in Kenworth trucks of the period.
Excellent ! There were a number of engine manufacturers supplying many interesting engines to vehicle and equipment manufacturers during this countrys' heyday. Continental, Hall-Scott, Buda, Waulkesha were major ones, Scripps / Ferro were early ones that made some really cool and advanced V8 engines in the teens and early 1920's. Don't forget Northway division of General Motors, also built many overhead valve and L head V8 engines in the 1915-1922 -ish era. You should dig up more info on the early General Motors V8 engines like these, you cold do a whole documentery on them alone !! The Scripps OHV V8's were jewels, and there were many other really cool V8 engines, many of them mass produced, long before Henry Fords flathed v8.
14 and a half liters! Holy crap. I wanna put one in a classic pickup truck like a Power Wagon or something comedically small compared to the big gals it came in
Very cool!
Please do features on the GMC 505 I-6, the Mack 707 (gas) I-6, and the mighty Hall-Scott 1090 (gas) V-12.
Yeah, I think I've read about the 503(who's counting) inline 6, and smaller ones in that family 426🤔, I think 1950s era. My big GMC book talks about a completely separate engine family back in the 1930s. And GMC also built a 707 gas 6, they wrote it was kind of a high hp output engine for it's time, (I guess not just a big slug). I've tried to look up as much as I could at one time about that Hall-Scott. Fire engines & logging trucks back in the day. I had read some posts about at one time, on the west coast a lot of them were ordered as butane burners from the factory. One guy said, at night, they'd get a fire call, pull out headed to a fire, this was apparently within distance of his bedroom window where he grew up, he said those fire trucks with the butane Hall-Scott engine would be hauling ass up a long steep hill nearby, 3 foot high blue flames coming out both stacks😊 must've made an impression so many decades ago
Wow, an AMAZING Engine, Adam😯👏
Top show , keep them coming please
Autocar trucks offered a v8 LeRoi in their trucks in the 1950's. It replaced their flathead engine
thanks for the information, good video
I worked in the air compressor industry for 40 years. I have ran across probably 15 LeRoi air compressors during those years. I was instantly corrected by the owner or management when I pronounced the name as you did in this video. I was told it was pronounced La Roy not Lee Roy.
Ha. Funny. You should’ve said it’s “Leh Wah”. That’s the correct French pronunciation.
I was around a few Le Roi natural gas compressors back in the day...
@@RareClassicCars We're not French around here...lol
Truly enjoy your channel and the combustion engine engineering history that you bring us, really is fascinating stuff for this ol Gearhead…..
Very impressive. Scania, the Swedish truck manufacturer, produces a 16,4 liter diesel V8. The most powerful version produces 770 hp.
Great vid!!! 👍👍
Another interesting engine video 👍👍
On the channel Small Engine Mechanic, the guy there repaired one for an Onan genset. He repairs generators for a living. He's got a lot of cool stuff on his channel.
That was so cool to watch and learn about these huge engines. I never knew they existed. When I heard it running at the end, I imagined modernizing it with EFI and distributer-less ignition with direct coils. I wonder if anyone attempted modifying one of these behemoths. I do remember the Allison V-12 aircraft engine used in drag racing.
Pretty Kool man.. My favorite V-8 is the Mopar 440-hemi...
-I suspect that they produced this as a "Hot V" V8 like a modern Audi, for the reason that it was designed with Fairbanks, Alaska in mind. During the winter in Fairbanks, it is not unusual for the temps to go down below -20 F, and that is why you see the rolled up fabric covers over the radiator air intakes. An engine with this low output is not going to put enough heat into the Hot V to make fuel vaporization an issue, so hot starts wouldn't be a problem and the wires were away from the heat as a result, a win-win.
Good stuff.
Thanku cool show wow
Judging from the tight fit between the apparent frame rails, one has to wonder if the exhaust manifold location was largely a packaging decision.
sure have heard of it… worked on em. great generator motor
Very cool
The Army still had some M123 gassers in the 80’s. Worked on a few along with their Cummins powered brethren.
Per the "small engine mechanic " on TH-cam...the exhaust manifolds were water cooled. That would explain their location.
My father was a mechanic in the army during this time period so he probably worked on these big motors. He was known to modify the trucks to get them to run like a scalded cat. A skill he transferred to racing
My dad worked at the Cleveland engine casting plant and I think he told me they had prototype Lincoln 502 in.³ built, but never went into production because of the gas crisis
Cummins makes some huge V12 and V16 engines that are used in stationary applications. I have done startups on two natural gas fueled V16s turning 2000Kw generators.
Great channel. Are you going to do anything on the big Hall Scott engines?
Very interesting
Am auto history buff and actually got to help tear down a 884 for rebuild, was amazed at size and strange exhaust was so weird, never knew if was ever finished
There is Only One Substitute for Cubic Inches and That IS More Cubic Inches!!! 🤠👍
My favorite Le Roi engines were the V8 air compressors... 4 cylinders were the engine and the other 4 were the compressor.
Our local far museum has an ice saw with a small LeRoi engine on it. It's a great running machine. well built too.
Need more power? Have you tried shoveling displacement at it by the railcar?
Stuff it in a first gen s10 and fill the neighborhood with tire smoke!!! Forget mpg and think two rear tires per 100 yards lol. Awesome engine and great video
Fantastic! How about ship and locomotive engines?
Have you looked at the hall Scott engines? I think they had a 1091 ci engine
Bad, BAD, LeRoi Brown 😎
Would like to see some details on cummins 785cui v8 you mentioned as I have not heard of it, the 504, 555 and big brother 903 I have but not that one
I've seen one of these LeRoi 844s once. It was at an auction, and I think was attached to a generator.
Any chance you'd do a video on the ASC Vision concept car?
Back in the 6os, I sold filters for Le Roi engines. They were made by J.A. Baldwin in Kearney Nebraska, who private labelled for various manufacturers like Mack and Caterpillar and oddly, Ferrari.
International Harvester also made a monster V8 for trucks. No telling what else you can dig up as REO, WHITE AND Mack all built monster gas engines that were common before diesel took over. Then there were manufacturers that made engines for trucks such as Buda, Hall Scott, Continental, Waukesha, Lycoming, Fairbanks-Morse. Then there were the marine and stationary engines that seemed to know no limits to size.
Look at it like this.
It's two inline 4 cylinder engines.
Side by side. Sharing a common crankshaft. With heads 180° apart from each other. Its why the intake and exhaust face each other.
If it was just one 4 cylinder inline motor the intake and exhaust would also be on the same side. Every inline motor of the day looked like that.
Le Roi was also a massive Air compressor manufacturer 😊
There is a guy on YT ,,,Waylon wire old iron,,,He makes rat rods,,And he is currently putting one of the 930ci 12 cylinder GMC engines in a rat rod,,,,He has a whole series just on the engine ,,,
That's called a "hot vee" design. It has many benefits over outboard-mounted exhaust manifolds, even though it does heat up the intake charge. It's not necessarily conducive to high performance, but it does greatly improve efficiency. All the heat rises away from the engine in a more concentrated area, keeping the cylinder heads much cooler, etc. I believe Mercedes actually has a modern twin turbo V8 super car that has this design.
Our city fire department had a Ford cab-over fire truck, that had a 612 ci. engine in it. That was in the late 70's. I done a tune-up on it. (Points & plugs) for those of us that remember what points are. 😅
The 884 seems like a good choice for a monster truck. Exhaust going straight up through the hood and torque for days. If I had the money, I would definitely like to find out
i love any motor that makes huge torque at low revs..
I'd guess that the inboard exhaust ports/manifolds could be an indication that they may have had their eyes on possibly turbocharging the engine at some point.
In french, Le Roi translates to 'The King' . Roi pronunciation roughly sounding like 'ruah'
Hall Scott had a large v 12 gas. Le Roi is/was? Famous as an air compressor company as well. I had worked on several over the years. The large V12 gas is very similar to their V12 diesel that I used as a back up generator, when we needed more power, or were securing the steam plant. Have fun
the hall-scott v12 was called the defender and was used in some american and british navy boats during ww-II.
Let's see here, billet head's, buzzard catcher , Littlefield 14-71 hi-helix, billet crank, rods ,cam. Msd pro 44 mag, dry sump . Etc.😁😁
I imagine the exhaust inside the VEE was probably both for packaging and to heat the intake manifold for improved cold start performance since they were often used in generators and such.
See below.
300 horsepower at 3000rpm but that’s because it’s a generator designed to run at full throttle all the time and needs to be reliable
The reason for the intake and exhaust on the same side of the head is most likely a cost savings measure, using the 4 cylinder head castings for the v8. Detroit Diesel did the same thing on thier V block engines
Le Roi and Wakesha(sp?) were popular as drilling rig engines many years ago.
"I'd reach over and wake up LeRoi".
We had a Le Roi engine on a fox forage harvester.
Sorry if I missed it, but did any of you catch what was the overall assembled engine weight? Thanks.
By comparison, the late 1950s Ford Super-Duty V-8 534 cubic inch was about 1,000 pounds.
I think the GMC V-6 Hercules truck-only 305 cubic-inch ( smallest displacement of the family ) was around 800 pounds...
These two examples were from specific truck engine design families - all cast Iron, heavy construction, modest horsepower but fantastic torque at low-rpm truck-only engines...that had NO business being in passenger cars or 1/2 ton pickups.
Do you know about the weights of any of the other engines in that series? The gmc v6s? I know some had larger cranks so maybe those were heavier but does the weight correlate with the displacement?
@machineman8388 Sorry I cannot locate a chart for the GMC V-6s....but I do know the Ford Super Duty were heavy...
( 401, 477, 534 Cid).
That's one reason they should never be put in a passenger car or light-duty truck.