These are a tough maneuver. In the first scenario, there's the turn towards the runway, then some magic happens, and Dan displays the plane on the Missed Approach Course. It's that middle magic part that's that challenge - maneuvering to intercept the missed. The video would be even more useful if it could give insight there.
This was a very well explained video. I just wish that I had this knowledge before I failed my instrument checkride back in October doing this very manuever.
Another good and interesting video. I have flown KMMH in the Maule and in the sim, and if I was on downwind for a CTL I would execute the missed from where I was rather than turn towards the airport for several reasons. 1. Where is the airport? If I could see it I'd continue the CTL. 2. It's less safe to add more low level low speed maneuvering away from the intended direction of flight when highly stressed low and slow in the soup. 3. I'm only a couple hundreds yards parallel to the runway, on runway heading. That would not make a difference from a practical point of view so best not to add more maneuvering, complexity, and risk. 4. I would question the wisdom of deliberately turning towards the mountains in IMC when off the published IP.
Well, the thing is that when above the circling MDA there is a protected zone where you can operate however you want as long as you're above the MDA and won't hit terrain.
@@antiquehealbot6543That 1.3 mi assumes category A aircraft approach speeds and standard turns. You shouldn’t need to make any steep turns in the circling area if you are flying the right speeds.
@@Saml01 One full circle in 80kt ground speed requires 0.8nm radius circle with standard rate turn.. If you're flying in mountainous terrain like I am, your ground speed will be around 90~100kts depending on the wind. This will make your turn radius full 1nm. Protected area may stretch up to 1.3 but in high workload situation like 'fly back to MAP, suspend your approach, make a radio call' scenario, you are putting yourself in dangerous spot. On top of it, if you lose contact to the terrain in the edge of the 1.3nm radius, you'll have to pray to god that you're not approaching the terrain. You can say things about aviate, navigate, communicate and task management but the fact is people WILL get distracted. Especially if they have to do it in real IMC. Ironically, a lot of people don't plan for MA in real IMC in lot of cases.
Can you cover some MAP or ODP, SID that has specified heading to intercept specified radial of VOR? Often times, these are based on faster airplanes so if you fly slower airplane like C172, you WILL undershoot the radial and never be able to intercept the desired radial. What shall you do in this situation? Onboard GPS will give you guidance to intercept the course but it's technically not heading depicted on the plate.
Exactly what I've been struggling with on my sim for the past 2 weeks, Have discussed with a couple of CFIIs and on a couple of channels, and they all seem to say the same thing. In a slower plane like a 172 don't follow the climbing turn heading literally or you may never intercept. An example is the missed at VOR/DME 17 at KVCV. Text basically calls for a 300' climb straight out then a climbing R turn to heading 300 deg. to intercept the VCV R-269 outbound. You'll probably be starting that turn even before reaching the threshold and well before the VOR which is toward the end of the 13,000' runway 17. So you'll never intercept. Instead, they tell me to just fly the climbing R turn to an appropriate heading to intercept. I flew something like 210-240 and it worked fine. The CDI comes in quick though since you're so close to the VOR.
@eds.173 As a CFII myself, I wasn't able to find any definitive answer in FAA documents. I think that it's not wrong to turn to intercept course and that's what I've been doing but haven't seen it in any of FAA document.
Oh no. ATC clears you for the approach under instrument conditions. Using a different approach, you would have to be cleared for the other approach as well. Remember, when you cleared for the approach you're also cleared for the missed procedure.
I’ve watched your videos all throughout training and they have been super helpful. Just wanted to say thanks!
These are a tough maneuver. In the first scenario, there's the turn towards the runway, then some magic happens, and Dan displays the plane on the Missed Approach Course. It's that middle magic part that's that challenge - maneuvering to intercept the missed. The video would be even more useful if it could give insight there.
This was a very well explained video. I just wish that I had this knowledge before I failed my instrument checkride back in October doing this very manuever.
Another good and interesting video.
I have flown KMMH in the Maule and in the sim, and if I was on downwind for a CTL I would execute the missed from where I was rather than turn towards the airport for several reasons.
1. Where is the airport? If I could see it I'd continue the CTL.
2. It's less safe to add more low level low speed maneuvering away from the intended direction of flight when highly stressed low and slow in the soup.
3. I'm only a couple hundreds yards parallel to the runway, on runway heading. That would not make a difference from a practical point of view so best not to add more maneuvering, complexity, and risk.
4. I would question the wisdom of deliberately turning towards the mountains in IMC when off the published IP.
I absolutely hate this circle approach to missed approach thing... I fly in mountainous area and this 'flying back to MAP' feels dangerous to execute.
Well, the thing is that when above the circling MDA there is a protected zone where you can operate however you want as long as you're above the MDA and won't hit terrain.
@gamingcontentchannel8076 To stay in that 1.3nm radius, you need to do an unusual turn at a steeper bank angle than usual. It's very nerve-wracking.
@@antiquehealbot6543That 1.3 mi assumes category A aircraft approach speeds and standard turns. You shouldn’t need to make any steep turns in the circling area if you are flying the right speeds.
@@Saml01 One full circle in 80kt ground speed requires 0.8nm radius circle with standard rate turn.. If you're flying in mountainous terrain like I am, your ground speed will be around 90~100kts depending on the wind. This will make your turn radius full 1nm. Protected area may stretch up to 1.3 but in high workload situation like 'fly back to MAP, suspend your approach, make a radio call' scenario, you are putting yourself in dangerous spot. On top of it, if you lose contact to the terrain in the edge of the 1.3nm radius, you'll have to pray to god that you're not approaching the terrain. You can say things about aviate, navigate, communicate and task management but the fact is people WILL get distracted. Especially if they have to do it in real IMC. Ironically, a lot of people don't plan for MA in real IMC in lot of cases.
@@antiquehealbot6543 Ok but that’s what the procedure is designed for. Are you seriously arguing for non standard maneuvers and steep turns in IMC?
Great video man!
Wow! Great learning there, thank you.
Can you cover some MAP or ODP, SID that has specified heading to intercept specified radial of VOR? Often times, these are based on faster airplanes so if you fly slower airplane like C172, you WILL undershoot the radial and never be able to intercept the desired radial. What shall you do in this situation? Onboard GPS will give you guidance to intercept the course but it's technically not heading depicted on the plate.
Exactly what I've been struggling with on my sim for the past 2 weeks, Have discussed with a couple of CFIIs and on a couple of channels, and they all seem to say the same thing. In a slower plane like a 172 don't follow the climbing turn heading literally or you may never intercept. An example is the missed at VOR/DME 17 at KVCV. Text basically calls for a 300' climb straight out then a climbing R turn to heading 300 deg. to intercept the VCV R-269 outbound. You'll probably be starting that turn even before reaching the threshold and well before the VOR which is toward the end of the 13,000' runway 17. So you'll never intercept. Instead, they tell me to just fly the climbing R turn to an appropriate heading to intercept. I flew something like 210-240 and it worked fine. The CDI comes in quick though since you're so close to the VOR.
@eds.173 As a CFII myself, I wasn't able to find any definitive answer in FAA documents. I think that it's not wrong to turn to intercept course and that's what I've been doing but haven't seen it in any of FAA document.
@@antiquehealbot6543Thanks
Would it be advisable to use the missed approach for the opposite runway? I’m assuming this would be briefed before attempting the approach.
Oh no. ATC clears you for the approach under instrument conditions. Using a different approach, you would have to be cleared for the other approach as well. Remember, when you cleared for the approach you're also cleared for the missed procedure.
Thanks. That makes sense but couldn’t I just ask clearance for the opposite runway missed procedure instead?
@ often times they will give you an amended missed approach clearance. Yes, you could certainly ask for a specific missed approach clearance.
@@praticalorigami Thanks, I’m working on an instrument rating. I appreciate the help.
what flight sim is he using
Microsoft flight simulator 2020