Forrest Fenn's Treasure, The 6th Stanza and The Identical Chest (Cindy Spoke to the Curator)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video we discuss the 6th stanza of the poem and also the identical chest at the Detroit Institute of Art Museum.
In 2010, Forrest Fenn, a retired antiquities dealer based in Santa Fe, N.M., bought an antique bronze chest and filled it with valuables and artifacts worth between $1 million and $2 million and hid it somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe. He then released a poem containing nine clues as to the treasure’s whereabouts.
The content of this video is based on our research, opinions and conclusions. We've been studying and searching since the end of 2012. We enjoy working with the search community in an effort to find Forrest Fenn’s treasure.
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Link to Detroit Institute of Art www.dia.org/ar...
THE CURATOR EMAILED ME:
I told her I was hoping to find out if there is an actual Romanesque chest/casket circa 1150AD like this that exists somewhere. This is her reply:
The quick answer is "not necessarily" - if it is made in a revival style, the artist used images and motifs and put them together to look like something they thought looked like it could come from the Middle Ages or Renaissance. It's not necessarily a copy or forgery - it could be an homage to the arts of a different age.
The senior curator believes ours is made in the 19th century, not as a forgery or copy, but as a decorative work produced for the interior decoration market. But all of this interest has sent him down to storage to take a second look. Or at least he will once the weather breaks.
@Easystreet She told me the staff of the DIA are not allowed to speak about monetary values
Thank you, Easystreet!
lol That's what Tammy said!
Fenn uses wax models and makes reproductions. That used to be his business years ago. Fenn is a art professional. He knows there is no Romanesque casket from 1150AD. He is known however for buying the wax copies and making bronze replicas of others art and trading it. I think there is a treasure but I dont think its what he says it is. My guess is it has value but no where near a million dollars. I own several coins that have book value but actual value isn't what its supposed to be. A gold coin is only worth what someone will actually pay you for it. What I found interesting was all the hoops that Dal tried to jump through to say the chests aren't same or similar lol..
@@inmyopinion651 Great points! Thanks for watching!
The significance of this stanza are the 3 nouns used. The words “your” and “the” connect these nouns to the nouns used prior stanzas.
Hi, seeing you a little emotional led me to write this; I believe The Special Man, gave a hint with regard to the chest. The date he gave is what is important and not the chest itself. You are always doing great jobs in your videos, always a pleasure to see you two. Please do not think there is no trust to be had in this, I truly believe he has done what he thinks is right, and doing the right thing bites you in the bum. Bless you
Thank you for your thoughts! I too believe he has done what he thinks is right! Thanks for watching! ~c
@@thehoosiersisters1420 You are a pleasure to watch and always helpful...
IMO, IF YOU LOOK UP JET, ARM, GO, CAREEN, you may see a pattern of the words used. Please use word hippo app not google. Look closer at the scrapbooks at some of the words, including nose. ta
Not that it makes much of a difference, because like you say the chase is still a blast but it does make one think I wonder if theres any high school sprinklers floating around in there, I enjoy your videos thank you for sharing.GJ
Thank you, GI JOE, for watching!
Regarding the two chests. One in Detroit and One that was found. When Forrest died there were photos taken of his room that showed another chest on his desk which means there are “at-least” 3. Since Forrest was casting bronze it is very possible he cast more chests. Did you ask the lady at Detroit if they believe it is an original
That would have been a good question for the lady in detroit. As far as the photo with the other chest, I am not familiar with that photo
The only thing I've ever heard him say he liked was ... He said "I like weapons". He said this in a interview.
Yes, he spoke of sending home weapons in his letters to Mr. Griggs
@@thehoosiersisters1420
I hope that things don't turn out like the guy in Grandby Colorado where he built a tank in his shop and used it to destroy the town. Most everyone that knowed that guy liked him too.
@@thehoosiersisters1420
By the end of his military career, Anderson retired as a colonel with more than 7,000 flight hours logged and more than 100 types of aircraft flown. However, when it was all over, he never hung his flight suit up for good. Even at the ripe age of 91 he is still an active pilot, maintaining his Certified Flight Instructor Rating.
I guess if I'm to repay my fellow man back for wrong doing I'm going to wait until I'm about to die then take my last flight loaded for bear.
Above, I've included a link to the Detroit Institute of Art and the chest.
This is a link to information on an actual 14th century casket: www.jstor.org/stable/497460?seq=10#page_scan_tab_contents
The design on the chest/casket is called "Attack on the castle of the church by the world"
This is a video of similar bronze chests being made: th-cam.com/video/8me_3bBwSHY/w-d-xo.html
This is not my original research, I'm adding this information to that of the latest discovery of a similar chest/casket at the Detroit Institute of Art Museum.
Thanks for sharing, fins59!
Ladies,
I believe Forrest gave us enough qualifiers when he made the statements about the chest. You shouldn’t give it a second thought.
700, 200, or 50 years old, does it really make a difference? The chase gives it plenty of a provenance. Look at the wood inside the box, does it really look like it is 800 years old? When I read his statements about the chest I didn’t believe them. I even think there is a possibility he made the chest or chests himself.
The age of the chest doesn't make any difference to the chase. This mystery is now just part of the history of the chase. I like your statement "The chase gives it plenty of provenance". Thinking about it all, I don't really think he would have let go of a box from 1150AD, let alone, hide it in the wilderness. Thanks for watching and sharing your insight!
To the Hoosier sister are you from? Indianapolis Indiana?
No, we are from the southern part of the state! Mary, are you a Hoosier sister?
It makes the chest a little less special than he sold it to be since there is an identical chest sitting just a couple hundred miles away.
Yep!
Thank you for an interesting video ladies! Imho, The bronze chest is the cold in the poem. As you stated, in TTOTC the bronze statue was cold to the touch. What do you hear and listen to? Fenn mentions Radio throughout TTOTC. Don't know.
Maybe Fenn isn't telling us the whole truth about the chest. Remember he says he likes to Embellish a little. And, his father told him in TTOTC that he didn't have to tell ALL the truth.
Or, he purchased that chest thinking it was older, which I tend to believe he would know important details like that being involved in art as antiquities, and not be taken by a fraudulent deal.
It would be interesting to find out how many of the chests may have been made, who may have made them, and distributed them during the 19th century.
Wonder what the inside of the Denver chest looks like. Fenn sold Master Fleeces, Forged Paintings, in his gallery. He also said he could sell a painting and make someone really want to purchase it. He can be seen talking about it to Lorene Mills, in an interview, Report from Santa Fe.
Fenn said there is one important thing that no one has considered with the chase. Wonder what that is? I think I am beginning to understand what that actually is.⭐
You're Welcome, Edna! I agree with everything you are saying! I hope to be able to ask the Museum if the inside of the chest is wooden. Thanks for watching!
I agree. If you take a section at a time and compare, they match up. Also he said his is 10x10, if I bought a chest that was 9 3/4”, id call it 10x10, it’s the same. I just wonder if the chest he hid and the one at the museum were possibly made by the same person. I’m curious though, I wish someone would’ve asked the curator that if they were to sell that chest, what would it be worth? Great video as usual you guys!!
Yes! Exactly! I plan on asking the curator what she believes is the value of the chest. Franklin, thanks for watching!
What happens if the future is wrong instead of the past?
I'm sure there is wrong in both the past and the future. We're always learning
@@thehoosiersisters1420
Some lessons are better not learned from experience.
Check the bottom for Made in China
lol
I am looking for Fenn stuff , I live in Indiana
Welcome to our channel, Mary! Maybe a Hoosier will find it! Good Luck!
the Base of the chest
What do you mean?
@@thehoosiersisters1420 Irrelevant to the chests value in its use for the "treasure" TTOTC allowed one this knowledge yet nobody found it important. One will find the base plate of the chest to be telling as well the entire photo.
Sisters, the treasure is still out there! :)
We believe it is too!
If I find the chest, I'm keeping it. It's still one-of-a-kind because of the treasure hunt. I agree completely with your take on the 6th stanza. No clues, but those lines should still fit the big picture which is a search for a treasure chest - no less, no more. imo
Yes, your right, the chest is still one of a kind. Like Tim Walker says earlier in comments "The chase gives it plenty of a provenance". Thanks, MrBonzai21
Lady on the left had me laughing and i dont laugh
She's entertaining! Thanks for watching, Richard!
Can you sit down and think like a 90 year old Texan though is the question. lol.. Title to the gold is a legal term though. Probably something to do with his estate planning or something to do with the legal part of the Chase. Its cold in the Rockies in July sometimes though to lol Only a Indian can be a Brave. FF uses a lot of word play and I like it.
Maybe not identical, but it is very much alike to FF's chest
Zoom in and compare them both. I really think they are identical. Thanks for watching Sakar!
I did the same. Enlarge a section of each chest at a time and compare and the match very well if you take into consideration the angles of the pictures. Almost exact matches.
Thanks for the video, ladies. My reaction is very much like yours about the second chest. It goes toward trust. I don't have a problem if Forrest made a mistake, or he repeated a mistake. As he said he should be allowed to be wrong once in a while. I agree with that. But I think he needs to own up to it and I think he needs to fix it. Its a fundamental factoid in TTOTC that is stated as fact by others and it needs to now be qualified at the very least. Forrest should really explain what he is now thinking about the age and origin of his chest.
I'd like to throw out a theory and see what you think. Maybe he DID hide a chest in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe that was from the 12th century. Maybe it looks similar in style but has completely different markings than the one in his book. Maybe he just used the chest in the book(s) for the photo shoot. He never said he hid THAT chest explicitly. Check it out for yourself. Why would he do that? Because now he has a way to weed out false claims of finding the chest. Only the true finder will know what the hidden chest looks like. Any image or description of a claimed find better look like the one he actually hid or its just another fake claim.
So maybe Forrest is telling the truth. Maybe his expert was right, its from the 12th century. Only we've never actually seen it. He told the truth, just not the whole truth, as his Father recommended for certain situations, right? Just a crazy theory. It helps me explain how this happened and gives me a little comfort.
Thanks for watching, Must Listengood! Early in comments, Dawna Bucholtz said something similar and here's what I came up with. Here is a link to Dal Neitzel site where Forrest is referring to the picture of the chest. Picture is not the greatest. dalneitzel.com/2016/09/23/scrapbook-one-hundred-fifty-eight/
Here is a photo showing the chest in his vault dalneitzel.com/2013/02/23/scrapbook-fourteen/
Do you think that is enough to prove it's the same chest he hid? What do you think?
Thanks for those links. Yes I have seen those, and admit that Forrest's words at the second link do lend one to believe that the chest in the photo is what he hid. However, he does say "months later" and he doesn't explicitly say what chest he used months later. So no, I don't think its enough to prove what chest he actually hid.
I don't think the chest in Detroit is the same chest in his pictures, but I do believe they both are from the 19th century and aren't worth anything near $25,000. But he could have obtained his chest in the photos rather cheaply and used it for showing the treasure off and for the photos. Then he purchased a chest from his art dealer friend just as he wrote which really is an older, more valuable chest and actually used that one. He's never shown it to anyone for a reason - to hide what the chest really looks like so he can weed out fake treasure claims. He simply disposed of his 19th century "photoshoot" chest. And there are more of those around, like the one in Detroit. It's just a theory, but like I said, it gives me a way to keep Forrest's credibility in tact. And it fits in with Forrest statement "I tried to think of everything..". He was obviously thinking about false treasure find claims.
Another minor point: He did say "with my treasures bold", as in more than one. Just a thought.?
@@mustlistengood3346 Your theory is very interesting! "After all non fiction writers don't have to be right but 85% of the time. Everyone knows that." Maybe that statement is his qualifier and keeps his credibility in tact.
I'm a believer in his 85% theory. But I don't think it works very well when it comes to facts about his treasure. The 1150 AD Romanesque chest was one of first things he said about the whole thing in his book. It's a fundamental part and factoid of the treasure hunt. That's a real trust issue when that is wrong. That's not a very negotiable 15% on that one. Now as he said, he should be allowed to be wrong every once in a while, and he did say he got it from his expert . That's OK, but he needs to admit that maybe he got it wrong to everyone if that is the case. We'll see if he says anything. If my theory is correct though, he won't be able to say much of anything, unless he wants to give up his secret.
Notice what he did say through Dal. "The new chest is much smaller than my chest" and "The images on the new chest are similar but not identical to my chest". Those statements make a lot more sense if the "bait and switch" theory is correct. Right? Or maybe not. I'll admit that this age difference gnaws on me though.
@@mustlistengood3346 Forrest's statement on Dals does fit your theory, because for sure those two chest are identical. According to Doug Preston, Gene Thaw was the "excited antique scholar" and he is a true expert. He is deceased now. If Gene Thaw was wrong about the pictured chest, I can see why Forrest ran with it. It could all just be a mistake or maybe "bait and switch". I'm leaning towards mistake.
A chest with "...a striking resemblance to a treasure chest buried north of Santa Fe NM..." can be yours for a mere $2500 www.max-cast.com/catalogue.php?action=view&item_id=203
I would like to invite you sisters to see my complete theory on this treasure chest I commented on Dev JB he put out about the treasure chest. If I stand correct, it would answer a lot of searchers questions, although it won't help find the treasure chest.
Thanks, Dawna! I checked out your theory. You are very smart and have put a lot of thought in your theory. Can you remember where you saw where Forrest described the chest with fairies or the like. That would be a big deal. I know he says he will know when it's found, but in the 2011 Lorene Mills interview th-cam.com/users/edit?o=U&video_id=cIzwLY59br0 he said if the person who finds the chest doesn't want the IRS to know, he may never know. Your theory that the chest pictured may not be the one hidden is very plausible IMO! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and thanks for watching our videos! We appreciate you!
The Hoosier Sisters Thank you ladies! I just love the both of you! I cannot remember when and where I heard him say that, and I need to find that out. But I have had others say they heard exactly the same thing. When I find that, I will let you know. If you find it, please let us all know on your channel. God bless, and keep up the good work!
Wonderful video, as always. I have a question. In the book, or even at any time, has ff ever said that the pictured chest was the chest he hid and/or was describing? Or do we all just (assume) the chest pictured is the true treasure chest? See, I do not believe the pictured treasure chest is the chest ff paid 25,000$ dollars for and hid. It doesn't matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are, and that includes the pictured treasure chest in ff book/books. God bless!
Thanks Dawna! Wow! I don't know if he truly said the pictured chest was the one hidden, but I will be researching that tomorrow! Very interesting!
Here is a link to Dal Neitzel site where Forrest is referring to the picture of the chest. Picture is not the greatest. It states it is copyright protected. dalneitzel.com/2016/09/23/scrapbook-one-hundred-fifty-eight/
Here is a photo showing the chest in his vault dalneitzel.com/2013/02/23/scrapbook-fourteen/
What do you think?
@@thehoosiersisters1420 There are high resolution versions of that scrapbook 158 image on the net that don't have the copyright writing on them.
You guys are sooooo deductive, your no were near even being close, to fenns resources needed,