Lie To Me is an important episode in that Angel comes clean to Buffy about his past. Buffy realising that as Angelus he tormented Drusilla and turned her. We saw in School Hard Spike having his history with Angel/Angelus too. The writers do a great job gradually showing how Angel, Spike, Drusilla ( and others can't say cos of spoilers ) have this shared history a theme throughout the show. Ford is of course dying of cancer, and as with many people in this situation would do anything to be rid of the disease. Buffy tells him, he has a choice, not a good one, but a choice to do the right thing. You can now seeing how this show is really showing how deep and meaningful it is, you can see the layers of the plotlines being put down for the future episodes. Spike says is School Hard 'you were my Sire' to Angel, but Angel is actually his Grand Sire.
Re. tropes, I'm pretty sure it was Buffy who popularised many of the fantasy/supernatural tropes we now take for granted in mainstream television. In fact the popular site 'TV Tropes' was initially created just for Buffy.
Agree. I watched horror shows before this series, and was really impressed. Buffy introduced a number of innovations that have become common standards in supernatural shows. For example, BtVS was one of the first series to combine horror and humor. Before Buffy, it was thought a hero/heroine who made jokes after someone died would lose the respect of the audience.
Mommie Dearest! You have become my favourite buffy reactor. You are insightful, hilarious, and effortlessly charming. And this is being a fun queer space is such a great bonus. This episode is a really powerful one. It plays with the nuance of morality well, while also deepening the lore and character backgrounds.
Definitely a pivotal episode. There's always a choice (hello existentialism)!!! For example, Buffy let Dru live. Spike, Dru , & their minions now know: the Slayer will be true to her word. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Great episode, I was just curious why Angel had to have Buffy tell him she loves him before he indulged his past (something I didn’t remember from the show) and I’m sure there’s more stories to come
I didn't get the Bossy the Cow joke either but apparently it's an obscure character from Sesame Street. Knowing what we know about vampires, incest wouldn't stop them if they were related but luckily this wasn't written by George R.R. Martin.
Okay, so Lie to Me is on the top end of S2 for me... I really want to be able to say top 5, but I think it does get edged out by others (none of which you've seen yet! So much good coming!). I like it because of what Buffy says to Ford. "You have a choice. You don't have a good choice, but you have a choice!" In the S1 finale, we saw Buffy put in a situation where she had a choice with no good outcomes. Flee the Master and let people die to save herself, or try to stop him knowing it's guaranteed she'd die in the process. We saw what choice she made. We see what choice Ford made here. There will be several more times throughout the series where a character is presented with a lousy set of options, and they pick one or the other... Showing either insane strength or a moment of weakness. I don't know. It's generic hero's journey stuff to some extent... But "You have a choice. You don't have a good choice, but you have a choice!" is reallyyyyyy REALLY central to Buffy and its spin-off. I could genuinely write a paper on how that line applies to these 2 shows in particular, even though it can broadly apply to many stories. I have the benefit of knowing what's to come to see everywhere it applies.... But just tuck the line away and (hopefully) appreciate it later :) Also in this episode's favor: I just love Dru, and the opening here is the first time we get to see her be scary. Her "song" gets stuck in my head sometimes. And Giles' lie at the end of the episode is a very sweet moment :)
yes, buffy's line here is very much the central premise of the show's philosophy. you already quoted it but it's worth repeating: you have a choice. you don't have a good choice, but you have a choice.
Put another way, and not to spoil anything so I won't say who or where but the line is from but, "If there is no grand plan, and nothing we do matters, then the only thing that matters is what we do." It is the theme the runs the length and breadth of the two shows.
The Divinyls did a cover of the song Ain’t Gonna Eat my Heart Anymore for the (less good) movie. One of the great Australian bands with Chrissy unfortunately no longer with us.
So everybody's lying, Angel to Buffy, Willow to the Scoobies, Ford to everybody... As usual, the title has different layers, does not only refer to that final scene between Buffy and Giles. That's where the series takes off imo, setting the basics for what's to come. Growing up is painful, oh boy! and monsters do not often wear horns and a ugly face
It's not exactly a retcon, more like Buffy & Giles concept of vampirism is more black & white than it is in practice. But what Giles says in the first episode is still the most accurate description.....it's not demonic possession, it's an "infection of the blood" that afflicts the soul rather than the body. Also that when the show says soul in a lot of instances they mean "conscience" & continues to use those words interchangeably. I like that these concepts are vague because just like in real life you can find a lot of philosophy contradicting the nature of a "soul" or "love". Yes, Buffy says a vampire "isn't you" when you turn, but it's not like a body snatcher situation, it's more like you fundamentally change as a person; Angel likes to talk about Liam & Angelus & Angel as different people but they aren't. They're all him.
@@samrobotsin I think they mean the sire stuff. Someone's sire canonically changes and it's never really mentioned. It's not the biggest of deals, but since she clearly is remembering the first reveal.... It might trip her up for a second when new info comes in later.
@@samrobotsin it is just like a body snatcher situation. Now I don't really like to bring up the comics but they are canon and they expand on this whole concept there with explicit definition on what happens when you get turned and what happens if you get turned without a demon taking possession of your body (you basically turn into a brain dead zombie). In the BuffyVerse the You really is gone when you are turned and your body is taken over by another sentient being.
Lie To Me is an important episode in that Angel comes clean to Buffy about his past. Buffy realising that as Angelus he tormented Drusilla and turned her. We saw in School Hard Spike having his history with Angel/Angelus too. The writers do a great job gradually showing how Angel, Spike, Drusilla ( and others can't say cos of spoilers ) have this shared history a theme throughout the show. Ford is of course dying of cancer, and as with many people in this situation would do anything to be rid of the disease. Buffy tells him, he has a choice, not a good one, but a choice to do the right thing. You can now seeing how this show is really showing how deep and meaningful it is, you can see the layers of the plotlines being put down for the future episodes. Spike says is School Hard 'you were my Sire' to Angel, but Angel is actually his Grand Sire.
This is another episode that always stuck with me. Showing that this show can be very deep at times.
Re. tropes, I'm pretty sure it was Buffy who popularised many of the fantasy/supernatural tropes we now take for granted in mainstream television.
In fact the popular site 'TV Tropes' was initially created just for Buffy.
‘Buffy’ did indeed popularize a lot of supernatural/gothic romance tropes. But it also played into existing ones.
Agree. I watched horror shows before this series, and was really impressed. Buffy introduced a number of innovations that have become common standards in supernatural shows. For example, BtVS was one of the first series to combine horror and humor. Before Buffy, it was thought a hero/heroine who made jokes after someone died would lose the respect of the audience.
I enjoy this episode, but the best scene is Angel telling Buffy what he was like as Angelus.
Mommie Dearest!
You have become my favourite buffy reactor. You are insightful, hilarious, and effortlessly charming. And this is being a fun queer space is such a great bonus.
This episode is a really powerful one. It plays with the nuance of morality well, while also deepening the lore and character backgrounds.
Oh my gosh, you are so kind! Thank you for the smile on my face! 😁🖤
Miscommunication (or lack of communication)... ha, that's literally what causes 99% of the problems in this show. 😆
well, that and the hellmouth
isn't it 99.9999% of the problems in every show?
And the last 1% contains a lot of trusting or turning one's back on the wrong person.
I want to replace my wimpy magazine poser Of spike with a huge ass wall covering monstrosity of the shot with him and Dru looking down at Ford.
Definitely a pivotal episode. There's always a choice (hello existentialism)!!! For example, Buffy let Dru live. Spike, Dru , & their minions now know: the Slayer will be true to her word.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Great episode, I was just curious why Angel had to have Buffy tell him she loves him before he indulged his past (something I didn’t remember from the show) and I’m sure there’s more stories to come
So he would feel less like it would cause her to eave him
I didn't get the Bossy the Cow joke either but apparently it's an obscure character from Sesame Street. Knowing what we know about vampires, incest wouldn't stop them if they were related but luckily this wasn't written by George R.R. Martin.
„Every dark romance 💘 Trope“= Angelus 😅😅😂🤣😂
Okay, so Lie to Me is on the top end of S2 for me... I really want to be able to say top 5, but I think it does get edged out by others (none of which you've seen yet! So much good coming!).
I like it because of what Buffy says to Ford. "You have a choice. You don't have a good choice, but you have a choice!" In the S1 finale, we saw Buffy put in a situation where she had a choice with no good outcomes. Flee the Master and let people die to save herself, or try to stop him knowing it's guaranteed she'd die in the process. We saw what choice she made. We see what choice Ford made here. There will be several more times throughout the series where a character is presented with a lousy set of options, and they pick one or the other... Showing either insane strength or a moment of weakness. I don't know. It's generic hero's journey stuff to some extent... But "You have a choice. You don't have a good choice, but you have a choice!" is reallyyyyyy REALLY central to Buffy and its spin-off. I could genuinely write a paper on how that line applies to these 2 shows in particular, even though it can broadly apply to many stories. I have the benefit of knowing what's to come to see everywhere it applies.... But just tuck the line away and (hopefully) appreciate it later :)
Also in this episode's favor: I just love Dru, and the opening here is the first time we get to see her be scary. Her "song" gets stuck in my head sometimes. And Giles' lie at the end of the episode is a very sweet moment :)
yes, buffy's line here is very much the central premise of the show's philosophy. you already quoted it but it's worth repeating: you have a choice. you don't have a good choice, but you have a choice.
Put another way, and not to spoil anything so I won't say who or where but the line is from but, "If there is no grand plan, and nothing we do matters, then the only thing that matters is what we do." It is the theme the runs the length and breadth of the two shows.
Fun Fact: The actress who played Jenny Calendar mostly retired from acting and became an evangelical motivational speaker or counselor or something.
yes, a very sad ending for a technopagan
Fact yes, fun fact no.
The Divinyls did a cover of the song Ain’t Gonna Eat my Heart Anymore for the (less good) movie.
One of the great Australian bands with Chrissy unfortunately no longer with us.
I can't wait for the next few episodes.
It would have been even more poignant if VampFord had spoken to Buffy before she staked him; something like: "Missed you, Summers"
So everybody's lying, Angel to Buffy, Willow to the Scoobies, Ford to everybody... As usual, the title has different layers, does not only refer to that final scene between Buffy and Giles. That's where the series takes off imo, setting the basics for what's to come. Growing up is painful, oh boy! and monsters do not often wear horns and a ugly face
I hope this doesn't count as a spoiler, but one of the bits of vampire lore you have learned will eventually be retconned.
It's not exactly a retcon, more like Buffy & Giles concept of vampirism is more black & white than it is in practice. But what Giles says in the first episode is still the most accurate description.....it's not demonic possession, it's an "infection of the blood" that afflicts the soul rather than the body. Also that when the show says soul in a lot of instances they mean "conscience" & continues to use those words interchangeably. I like that these concepts are vague because just like in real life you can find a lot of philosophy contradicting the nature of a "soul" or "love". Yes, Buffy says a vampire "isn't you" when you turn, but it's not like a body snatcher situation, it's more like you fundamentally change as a person; Angel likes to talk about Liam & Angelus & Angel as different people but they aren't. They're all him.
@@samrobotsin That's actually not the bit of lore I meant.
@@samrobotsin I think they mean the sire stuff. Someone's sire canonically changes and it's never really mentioned. It's not the biggest of deals, but since she clearly is remembering the first reveal.... It might trip her up for a second when new info comes in later.
@@samrobotsin it is just like a body snatcher situation. Now I don't really like to bring up the comics but they are canon and they expand on this whole concept there with explicit definition on what happens when you get turned and what happens if you get turned without a demon taking possession of your body (you basically turn into a brain dead zombie). In the BuffyVerse the You really is gone when you are turned and your body is taken over by another sentient being.
Minor spoiler: Angel isn't from England, not even Great Britain. And his human name wasn't Angel or Angelus.
he's not even from earth, judging by his accent lol.
@@sirmoonslosthismind I'm German and even I cringe when he speaks in that accent.
well, he is if you ask an English nationalist.