its really not, the only problem i see here is the surface area the radiator covers vs the waterblock. the water goes through so many small tunnels with a bunch of fins on the side that cool the water instantly and efficiently with a radiator and the waterblock well its just a block of copper. try cooling a bucket of water with an ice cube.
@@MHawkeye Actually it is a terrible idea. The TECs power consumption would need to be higher than the thermal output of the CPU and since the TEC also produces heat, the cooler would need to get rid of the combined heat of CPU and TEC. I am to lazy to calculate this, but with modern CPUs that's a lot of heat. Probably way north of 300W.
@@ARVash ;-) I wasn't even talking about efficiency. The TEC he is using is probably too weak and even if it wasn't, the air-cooler definitely can't dissipate that much heat.
The Peltier element has a certain cooling capacity, once you put enough heat on its cold side it gets overwhelmed and the heat stays trapped in the water loop. Off the top of my head, when I was cooling Pentium III CPUs which had a TDP of around 35W, my 60W Peltier (12V 5A) couldn't keep up and I got worse temps than without the TEC. I would say you need to put at least 3x TDP's worth of power into your TEC, or across multiple TECs, in order to get any cooling at all. So for a ~90W TDP CPU you would need at least 270W worth of TECs. That would be 5 60W elements. You should go for at least 7 or 8 to have some margin, and maybe even to get sub-ambient at low loads. Is this expensive and outrageously inefficient? Yes. But it should be cool. EDIT: I should also add - don't stack your Peltiers, keep them at 1 element per tower cooler, and chain the water block+Peltier+tower cooler assemblies in a water loop. Maybe add a radiator without fans into the loop to provide a sort of heat buffer, without a radiator the total thermal mass of the loop is small and you might get large spikes in temperature.
IIrc they are about 1-5% efficient. so at 2%, you're looking at a 12710 (154w) cooling 3,08w which means you'd need 35 to cool a 3950x (105W) though you could bring it close to ambiant with a 3x3 radiator, and use like 2kw of tecs to bring it down a few degrees below ambiant. but the best option is probably salvaging an old ac unit and make a chiller with it. (or cool antifreeze with it.)
@@metaleater9 That wouldnt hurt, but he really needs more cooling on the hot side of the peltier. And if he were to get below ambient like he thought he was a radiator would actually increase the temperature of the loop
Or use multiples setup like this in series... probably won't work as peltier don't seems to do well as cooling... Maybe if a peltier was integrated with a rad directly it could work wonder... but impossible to test here :p
You guys get it. Not only is the Peltier under powered but the orientation is causing the air cooler to actively work against itself by heating the top side preventing any condensation that might have occurred due to the peltier heating the pipes.
So a 100w peltier will provide ~10w of cooling and 90w of heat. The tec also provides quite a lot of thermal resistance. It would work a lot better to put the water block straight on the air cooler
What about adding the peltier to an existing water loop? I mean, have the colder return hose to the CPU be connected to a peltier device and see if that super cools the water in addition to a reg loop setup. How much lower could you get in terms of temps with and without the peltier device?
You got a 12706. That means it will use 6 amps and remove about 50W of heat. If you use a 12715 it will use 15 amps and remove about 130W of heat. A 360mm radiator can easily dissipate 300W-600W of heat as long as you get it hot enough above ambient and have good fans.
I had a spare 4770k lying around still in its old mobo with a 850 watt power supply. I had just learned what peltier tacs were that day and instantly got the idea to cool a cpu with that day, went on ebay and grabbed a 450w peltier tac and went to work on stripping couple psu cables when it arrived I slapped a hyper 212 on it and booted it up, idle temps were 4-5c and load temps were just around 30c, but after 10 mins I didnt realize it was condensating and then it got into the socket and short circuited the board and cpu lol. Good times
There was actually a TH-cam video on someone doing this a good couple of years ago on the "Then Blazing Fast" AMD Athlon. They had the xavt same issues, and resorted to conformally coating their MB in something to avoid destroying their setup. If recall correctly, they were averaging around the 5° mark as well 🤔
Peltiers can move heat using electricity, but they're very bad heat conductors. This means that while yes, they can cool down things by transporting heat away form them, they do it at a very slow speed, therefore they only really work for things that don't generate heat by themselves, like the inside of a cooler, or a can of beverage. You would need a massive surface area covered with dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of Peltiers to cool down the wattage of a CPU!
possible with two TEC of good quality (Made in USA, not the Chinese ones with wrong specs) and a strong Qmax. Did it with three waterblocks, two to reject heat with water and the center block get cold from both side. Not power efficient!
I would be more interested how the radiator + tec in series would perform. The radiator would cool the water to ambient temperature and the tec could bring it below that. Additionally you could cool the hot side of the tec with your evaporative cooler.
@@racistpandagod No they will and saying peltiers are garbage just means you have no knowledge about them. Yes peltiers are very inefficient but they take little to no space at all and as a bonus they act as a generator if the temperature difference is there.
@@racistpandagod Done it with two peltier of good quality and 3 waterblock. I was able to move 344w of heat load. Electric bill thru the roof (700W of load to move 344w only)
@@racistpandagod He used an awful setup and cheap, low-power peltiers. There are peltier chillers out there that will easily go sub-ambient, even sub-zero - it's a matter of designing the system correctly. Check out the channel Making Stuff Awesome to see how it's done - the guy designed peltier waterblocks for the military to cool equipment in areas where reliability was more important than efficiency, seeing that peltiers are solid state with no moving parts, unlike compressor-based chillers.
5 with noctua fans in my home i use 5 15A peltiers 120mm in cold and 240mm with beefy 2x4000rpm san ace fans must say removes the heat produced by my pc and removes the need of requiring a ac
Oh hey, I just recently graduated with a thesis based on trying to cool a CPU with Peltier. The result of that is pretty simple: Unless you have an IHS the size of a Peltier that is capable of moving MORE heat than the CPU produces - you cannot cool the CPU. Heat transfer rate of such Peltier module is way too low, hence it must be stronger than the heat source. And the moment you start pumping say 100W from the CPU you have over 200W of heat to take from the hot side. I've used a 40x40x3.2mm (TEC1-12715) module with Qmax of 144W, at peak efficiency at 13.2V (powered from a PSU that supplied my PC, had to use DC-DC boost converter :D) it I still got a score of 59C under 65W of load, as a reference I've used Liquid Freezer II 360mm, which managed to keep that temperature under 95W. And boy, was the radiator of that LF II warm when it cooled the Peltier under this 13.2V. The only way of "efficiently" using Peltier module is for a burst stress testing, such as a CPU-Z validation. Also, sides of the Peltier are terribly wavy, you need to spread the paste manually.
manaquri I think you can get 10% efficient to get a few degrees advantage, but it requires under-volting them (so you might need twice as many). But that’s compared to say my over 100% cooling efficiency of my phase cooler (where it uses about 350w when cooling a 350w CPU at -35c, which is the hottest I have ever seen it get, just a basic Vapochill LS and I was testing an FX-8350 at 1.7 Vcore but my garbage board with only a 4 phase VRM could only get it to 5.5 GHz rock solid, or 6 GHz single core, but it would basically be 9900k at 6 GHz at that temperature for modern comparisons with similar power draw since they get much more efficient at these temps, I’d guess the FX was 35% more efficient because with the power draw scaling it would have been around 500w if by some miracle a waterblock could have cooled that volcano below thermal shutdown). I think it can handle a little more heat load (especially if it’s just a burst (maybe 400w cooling capacity at some temp maybe like -25c), but it’s far too small for my Threadripper (which sits happily on a 120mm AIO chugging through compression encodes all day long at 450w with it overclocked). I do want cascade sometime that can handle 1kW with TR-64 core but I need to have some parts made like the expansion block which I have modeled up but I don’t have a CNC machine yet.
@@jakegarrett8109 I always find it funny that phase change heating can be over 100% electrically efficient. so you're using 350w total for the pump but probably outputing a bit over 700w at the heatsink. (in that case it's only 100%, because the cpu is in the same room, but if you cool outside air you can get up to 300-400% efficiency.) last time I tried something in the >300W range, I fried a psu, it didn't like the phenom II and the 7970 overclocked at the same time, with furmark+linpack. 300W cpu + 400W GPU on a 500W no name psu, do the math :p
@@satibel @manaquri hot side gets a heat output equivalent to the sum of Joules heat and Peltiers effect, and you'd sooner get 7GHz stable than get even 500W of heat on a working, lower perfomance module. For a phase changer you either go with multiple TECs and use them on low voltage or you have no way of cooling units.
@@satibel that "over 100% efficiency" is just an artifact of how you are calculating that efficiency. If the system is at equilibrium and we are assuming it is an ideal system then if you are putting 350W in at the pump and getting 700W out of the hot side then you are pulling 350W from whatever it is you are cooling. And the proper way to calculate efficiency for this type of device is, desired/input in this case the energy transfer of the cold side is our desired metric so: 350W/350W=1.0 or 100%. Just knowing work in at the pump and energy out of the heatsink isn't enough to calculate the actual efficiency of the system. In actuality the efficiency is likely closer to say 0.9 so if you are putting 350W in at the pump you will be pulling 315W from whatever it is you are cooling.
One thing that may have an affect is the direction of your air cooler. The heat pipes are designed to bring heat away, but it might be more difficult with the air cooler upside down. The fluid in the pipes will rise when it gets hot.
I don't even know where to start... Lets start from the basic. 1. For cooling purpose DO NOT use 12volts. 2. There was ZERO insulation between hot and cold side, so the hot side was warming the cold side. 3. There was zero insulation in water pipes etc, when you want to go close ambient or lower, you will need good insulation everywhere because the room is heating up all the surfaces that are not insulated. Here are couple ideas for you, which i have tested and can confirm working, use 2x12706 stacked and run them at 5volts. This way you can easily reach 40-degrees under ambient temp, measured from surface of peltier. This method also uses WAY less watts (20watts) than running 1x12706 at 12volts (72watts) and it also makes MUCH LESS useless heat in the warm side. Currently my best result is using: 12710+12708+12703 stacked, running them all at 5volt, about 45watts and the cold side goes 57-degrees under ambient temperature. In a nut shell: 1.Drop voltage 2. Use stacked method 3. GOOD insulation and you can see some serious schit to happen. ;)
I had an all in one, CoolIt peltier setup years ago and that definitely worked. It had 3 peltiers sandwiched between 3 little water blocks (joined together in a loop) on one side, and a round central doughnut like radiator in the middle, on the other side. One end of the radiator doughnut was closed and had a waterpump bolted to the back side, the other open end had a fan sucking air out the back of my case. It used a lot of power but my temps never exceeded 20 degrees celsius.
I wonder if the CPU could reach below ambient if the peltier is mounted to the CPU and the hot side is cooled by the watercooling loop going to 360° rad. In essence, a waterblock - peltier -cpu sandwich
I had a similar concept ,except my version consists of a custom-made water block where the inlet and outlet pipes of the water block are mounted from the side of the block, instead of being mounted to the top of the water block, and connected to a radiator. This then allows you to mount an air cooler to the top of the water block to further assist the radiator in helping cool the cpu. Can you see any logic with this method???
I’m to the point now where I just wait for your videos to be uploaded the rest of TH-cam is just boring. Awesome work. I love watching these awesome experiments
What would happen if you sandwiched the peltier directly between the CPU and an air cooler instead of using thermal paste (similar to using a thermal pad)? Would the effectiveness of the air cooler increase at all?
You'll need more peltier elements, to make it cool. one is just too ineffiecient, so if you make a loop with like 10-14 peltier elements, it could work
Unfortunately no. Peltiers are only effective in large applications. The devices he is using are only capable of a couple of watts each of thermal power and as such are easily overwhelmed by a CPU. These are more effective as thermoelectric generators. You can even see them on some stoves connected to a fan motor to stir the air.
i have been waiting for you to do projects with peltier coolers :).. i have a little idea.. try put the peltiers on the radiator , or peltiers in a closed box and then have the heatsink with the hot side stick out of the box so that does not generate heat inside the box, and for better cooling performance you could add a heatsink or some other metal block to the cold side on the peltier inside the box with the radiator i think that might think that could work , also remember to add rgb light for extra cool performance
They sell those... that’s what they use in cars to cool the drinks (they are the $20 soda fridge), of course the heat dumped into your car is 10x higher than what it’s extracting so they use huge amount of power (maybe 30x more power than a regular fridge), but they do use them for that, it’s just terribly slow and inefficient.
This would be interesting to see if you hooked up several tec/air cooler setups in series just for giggles and see if passing the water over several cool side tecs would make it work.
I really think if you get some decent waterblocks and a couple better peltiers and but them in a series to cool the water, you could get some cool results
Peltier works. I remember even Cooler Master adding one on their V10. It was a gimmick at that price, but it added something. It just that even if it can make a temperature difference on both sides, it's limited in how much thermal power it can transfer.
Can you connect it with the rediator? So the water firs cooles by the rediator and then getting below ambient by the paltier. Maybe getting a better block and putting even two paltier one after the other.
Hi mate!, Would love to see a rad immediately following the CPU to dump most of the heat, then have a TEC to cool the water before it heads back to the CPU. TECs can create good deltas, but dont manage large heat loads well.
Have you tried it with the cooler in the designed position? Either sideways, or with the heat source at the bottom? Heat pipes tend to work in the right orientation
Dell offered a water loop with a Peltier block called H2C. The XPS 710/720/730 had it as an expensive option. It was regulated to not go below ambient temperature. If it goes below ambient temperature the radiator starts adding heat into the loop. This also avoided condensation issues. It had 2x Peltier chips after the radiator. Peltier can easily go well below ambient if you have enough of them. But then condensation will need to be considered.
I always thought the best way to do this would be to use a peltier + air cooler in addition to the radiator. AFAIK the peltier's goign to be sucking X number of watts out of thermal energy out of the water regardless of delta, right? So have the water go out of the cpu into the radiator first to dump as much into the air as possible that way, then when the delta is lower use the peltier to push the water temperature down even further.
I noticed the same thing. How can the liquid fall to the hot part and have its phase change into vapor so it can get to the cool part, when it’s upside down? Now i have to search for a test of right side up vs upside-down. Lol
The fact that you ACTUALLY got something from WISH is in itself a miracle! I JUST got some filament that I ordered in MAY last week! (if I had ordered it from Amazon, and had it shipped from the China warehouse) in 14 days!
In the realm of techtubers, you've definitely solidified your place as the Mad Scientist between stuff like this and the ongoing fan experiments. I love it! Revisiting this with a better peltier and a larger/better waterblock would be a worth it. Maybe place your reservoir between the blocks so the CPU block is receiving the coldest water?
Betteridge's law of headlines. Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."
This project can be done to create a water chiller. The main problem is having enough surface area on the cold side. And a massive slab of copper would be quite expensive right now. I actually had a idea similar to this utilizing and dual loop and a heat exchange block in between. Planned to cool the pelts with the alphacool cape cora which is a classic favorite of mine which I have bought. Never got around to the project / extensive video editing.
Since you already have all the components try this simple modification: CPU block -> radiator -> peltier block -> back to CPU block Let's see if is possible to achieve sub ambient coolant temperature. Added bonus, use your water cooled air cooler to cool the peltier for extra lols! And if you use the cooling tower to cool the coolant of the water cooled air cooler it would just be PERFECT!
If you want it to work then either you want the Peltier modules to be directly on the CPU and have a water block on it or you could have an fan cooler on it.
I wonder if the water wasn't staying in the block long enough for it to get cooled down. You may, either, need a water block with a longer groove so the water stays in it longer or a longer water block with more peltier chips attached. But, in that case, how many chips before the cost of electricity outweighs the cooling efficiency?
I have always wanted to know what the impact would be, if you had a cooling loop that had a TEC cooling a block that the CPU loop went through, and an AIO on the hot side of the TEC. So not removing any of the original water loop cooling capability with the radiator. It's pretty clear you can't replace any kind of cooling with a TEC, but can you enhance the water cooling?
I've seen so many experiments like this, the result is always the same: Peltier cells works but they are NOT EFFICIENT enough at the point that you'll have better results just removing them from the loop. EDIT: but we always need Major Hardware to do experiments like this, to look and find if the things the vendors sell us are the better ways to do them, or if they could be improved in some ways! Thank you Major, you're our hero! Greetings from Italy
Push 5-6 amps and 12-14 volts trough it? I made a mini fridge out of one with a cpu heat sync and a sound card heat sync and it required a lot of power to get it to 40F
This is a terrible idea. Keep it up!
its really not, the only problem i see here is the surface area the radiator covers vs the waterblock. the water goes through so many small tunnels with a bunch of fins on the side that cool the water instantly and efficiently with a radiator and the waterblock well its just a block of copper. try cooling a bucket of water with an ice cube.
@@MHawkeye Actually it is a terrible idea. The TECs power consumption would need to be higher than the thermal output of the CPU and since the TEC also produces heat, the cooler would need to get rid of the combined heat of CPU and TEC. I am to lazy to calculate this, but with modern CPUs that's a lot of heat. Probably way north of 300W.
@@andreasvogler1875 efficiency is for people who don't live under the warm loving glow of a nuclear power plant.
@@ARVash ;-) I wasn't even talking about efficiency. The TEC he is using is probably too weak and even if it wasn't, the air-cooler definitely can't dissipate that much heat.
@@andreasvogler1875 ah, maybe he could put it in line with the existing radiator. That way he could extract heat from an "already cool" line
The Peltier element has a certain cooling capacity, once you put enough heat on its cold side it gets overwhelmed and the heat stays trapped in the water loop.
Off the top of my head, when I was cooling Pentium III CPUs which had a TDP of around 35W, my 60W Peltier (12V 5A) couldn't keep up and I got worse temps than without the TEC. I would say you need to put at least 3x TDP's worth of power into your TEC, or across multiple TECs, in order to get any cooling at all.
So for a ~90W TDP CPU you would need at least 270W worth of TECs. That would be 5 60W elements. You should go for at least 7 or 8 to have some margin, and maybe even to get sub-ambient at low loads.
Is this expensive and outrageously inefficient? Yes. But it should be cool.
EDIT: I should also add - don't stack your Peltiers, keep them at 1 element per tower cooler, and chain the water block+Peltier+tower cooler assemblies in a water loop. Maybe add a radiator without fans into the loop to provide a sort of heat buffer, without a radiator the total thermal mass of the loop is small and you might get large spikes in temperature.
IIrc they are about 1-5% efficient. so at 2%, you're looking at a 12710 (154w) cooling 3,08w
which means you'd need 35 to cool a 3950x (105W)
though you could bring it close to ambiant with a 3x3 radiator, and use like 2kw of tecs to bring it down a few degrees below ambiant.
but the best option is probably salvaging an old ac unit and make a chiller with it. (or cool antifreeze with it.)
Der8auer did something like that in this Video: th-cam.com/video/YaOjrk98vPI/w-d-xo.html
yeah, there's a reason Cooler Master abandoned their TEC cooler plans (See V10 cooler)
Would it just be more efficient to add a radiator to the loop to reduce the load on the peltier?
@@metaleater9 That wouldnt hurt, but he really needs more cooling on the hot side of the peltier. And if he were to get below ambient like he thought he was a radiator would actually increase the temperature of the loop
"...pretty much everything I do on this channel doesn't make sense"
But it sure is interesting entertainment
I love the authenticity and enthusiasm of this channel.
6:05 "Yeah, we're doin' things!" should be the slogan of the channel
t shirt
Major Hardware take my money
True
Could you run a radiator directly out of the cpu, then somewhere later in the loop run a peltier water block?
This is the only logical solution I don't know why he and linus didn't do it
Or maybe using a car radiator like some people did years ago.
Unless you're using an incredibly underpowered pump, loop order doesn't matter.
@@mikee9167 any youtuber this that in that way? i didn't see that atm.
Or use multiples setup like this in series... probably won't work as peltier don't seems to do well as cooling...
Maybe if a peltier was integrated with a rad directly it could work wonder... but impossible to test here :p
Try using a second waterblock with an air cooler on it and compare it to direct air cooling and to a radiator.
I would love to see one or more of these hooked up in series with a radiator in the same loop
I tried this way back when my AMD K7 was bleeding edge. It cooled the chip well, really well, then melded the fan on the radiator.
Turn the thing upside down man, convection is a thing.
i was looking for someone to comment on that. the heat pipes have to be a certain orientation to work properly.
Ohh, you mean right side up.
You guys get it. Not only is the Peltier under powered but the orientation is causing the air cooler to actively work against itself by heating the top side preventing any condensation that might have occurred due to the peltier heating the pipes.
So a 100w peltier will provide ~10w of cooling and 90w of heat. The tec also provides quite a lot of thermal resistance. It would work a lot better to put the water block straight on the air cooler
What about adding the peltier to an existing water loop?
I mean, have the colder return hose to the CPU be connected to a peltier device and see if that super cools the water in addition to a reg loop setup. How much lower could you get in terms of temps with and without the peltier device?
Try running through a rad to drop the temps to near ambient, then run it through the peltier to reduce temps even more.
What wattage is that TEC cooler? Sorry if you mentioned it and I missed it, but maybe you could stack a bunch of high wattage TECs. 😂
just 60W for this little guy
Maybe a 250w pelt next time! If there is a next time...
@@doubleas88 that would make the total amount of heat that he would need to dissipate 250w plus the power of the CPU. You can't cool that easily.
@@MajorHardware Oh yeah. That's a little baby TEC. I don't know what but I have a weird fascination with TEC
@@DawidDoesTechStuff me to its like common i know your better than this.
You got a 12706. That means it will use 6 amps and remove about 50W of heat. If you use a 12715 it will use 15 amps and remove about 130W of heat. A 360mm radiator can easily dissipate 300W-600W of heat as long as you get it hot enough above ambient and have good fans.
I had a spare 4770k lying around still in its old mobo with a 850 watt power supply. I had just learned what peltier tacs were that day and instantly got the idea to cool a cpu with that day, went on ebay and grabbed a 450w peltier tac and went to work on stripping couple psu cables when it arrived I slapped a hyper 212 on it and booted it up, idle temps were 4-5c and load temps were just around 30c, but after 10 mins I didnt realize it was condensating and then it got into the socket and short circuited the board and cpu lol. Good times
There was actually a TH-cam video on someone doing this a good couple of years ago on the "Then Blazing Fast" AMD Athlon. They had the xavt same issues, and resorted to conformally coating their MB in something to avoid destroying their setup.
If recall correctly, they were averaging around the 5° mark as well 🤔
@@-Gadget-Perhaps they're using Vaseline as coating?
Peltiers can move heat using electricity, but they're very bad heat conductors. This means that while yes, they can cool down things by transporting heat away form them, they do it at a very slow speed, therefore they only really work for things that don't generate heat by themselves, like the inside of a cooler, or a can of beverage. You would need a massive surface area covered with dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of Peltiers to cool down the wattage of a CPU!
possible with two TEC of good quality (Made in USA, not the Chinese ones with wrong specs) and a strong Qmax. Did it with three waterblocks, two to reject heat with water and the center block get cold from both side. Not power efficient!
Different peltiers have different heat dissipation. I would opt for a 250w should work just fine
What if a distroplate had an aluminum or copper backplate with heatsink fins cut into it? or was made entirely out of metal?
I would be more interested how the radiator + tec in series would perform. The radiator would cool the water to ambient temperature and the tec could bring it below that. Additionally you could cool the hot side of the tec with your evaporative cooler.
2 x peltier to cool both sides, you sir are a mad scientist 🤣👍🏻
you need more peltiers than 1 in order to cool a cpu. I'd say get 7 more and then try again. But this will work you just need more peltiers
It won't peltiers are pretty garbage
Don't believe me? Check Der8auer's vid it's a few months old
@@racistpandagod No they will and saying peltiers are garbage just means you have no knowledge about them. Yes peltiers are very inefficient but they take little to no space at all and as a bonus they act as a generator if the temperature difference is there.
@@racistpandagod Also I have seen his vid and the peltiers on his vid are TERRIBLY COOLED!
@@racistpandagod Done it with two peltier of good quality and 3 waterblock. I was able to move 344w of heat load. Electric bill thru the roof (700W of load to move 344w only)
@@racistpandagod He used an awful setup and cheap, low-power peltiers. There are peltier chillers out there that will easily go sub-ambient, even sub-zero - it's a matter of designing the system correctly. Check out the channel Making Stuff Awesome to see how it's done - the guy designed peltier waterblocks for the military to cool equipment in areas where reliability was more important than efficiency, seeing that peltiers are solid state with no moving parts, unlike compressor-based chillers.
now the question is how many peltier do you need to beat a 360mm radiator
5 with noctua fans
in my home i use 5 15A peltiers 120mm in cold and 240mm with beefy 2x4000rpm san ace fans must say removes the heat produced by my pc and removes the need of requiring a ac
@@hyakinthos_0902 what are you doing with that massive amount of heat though? Are your radiators outside?
@@vikmanphotography7984 yes outdoors
@@hyakinthos_0902 fair enough.
Oh hey, I just recently graduated with a thesis based on trying to cool a CPU with Peltier. The result of that is pretty simple:
Unless you have an IHS the size of a Peltier that is capable of moving MORE heat than the CPU produces - you cannot cool the CPU. Heat transfer rate of such Peltier module is way too low, hence it must be stronger than the heat source. And the moment you start pumping say 100W from the CPU you have over 200W of heat to take from the hot side. I've used a 40x40x3.2mm (TEC1-12715) module with Qmax of 144W, at peak efficiency at 13.2V (powered from a PSU that supplied my PC, had to use DC-DC boost converter :D) it I still got a score of 59C under 65W of load, as a reference I've used Liquid Freezer II 360mm, which managed to keep that temperature under 95W. And boy, was the radiator of that LF II warm when it cooled the Peltier under this 13.2V.
The only way of "efficiently" using Peltier module is for a burst stress testing, such as a CPU-Z validation. Also, sides of the Peltier are terribly wavy, you need to spread the paste manually.
200W of heat from the hot side? that's generous, I've seen efficiency numbers around 2-5%, so that'd be more like 2000-5000W.
manaquri I think you can get 10% efficient to get a few degrees advantage, but it requires under-volting them (so you might need twice as many). But that’s compared to say my over 100% cooling efficiency of my phase cooler (where it uses about 350w when cooling a 350w CPU at -35c, which is the hottest I have ever seen it get, just a basic Vapochill LS and I was testing an FX-8350 at 1.7 Vcore but my garbage board with only a 4 phase VRM could only get it to 5.5 GHz rock solid, or 6 GHz single core, but it would basically be 9900k at 6 GHz at that temperature for modern comparisons with similar power draw since they get much more efficient at these temps, I’d guess the FX was 35% more efficient because with the power draw scaling it would have been around 500w if by some miracle a waterblock could have cooled that volcano below thermal shutdown). I think it can handle a little more heat load (especially if it’s just a burst (maybe 400w cooling capacity at some temp maybe like -25c), but it’s far too small for my Threadripper (which sits happily on a 120mm AIO chugging through compression encodes all day long at 450w with it overclocked). I do want cascade sometime that can handle 1kW with TR-64 core but I need to have some parts made like the expansion block which I have modeled up but I don’t have a CNC machine yet.
@@jakegarrett8109 I always find it funny that phase change heating can be over 100% electrically efficient.
so you're using 350w total for the pump but probably outputing a bit over 700w at the heatsink. (in that case it's only 100%, because the cpu is in the same room, but if you cool outside air you can get up to 300-400% efficiency.)
last time I tried something in the >300W range, I fried a psu, it didn't like the phenom II and the 7970 overclocked at the same time, with furmark+linpack.
300W cpu + 400W GPU on a 500W no name psu, do the math :p
@@satibel @manaquri hot side gets a heat output equivalent to the sum of Joules heat and Peltiers effect, and you'd sooner get 7GHz stable than get even 500W of heat on a working, lower perfomance module.
For a phase changer you either go with multiple TECs and use them on low voltage or you have no way of cooling units.
@@satibel that "over 100% efficiency" is just an artifact of how you are calculating that efficiency. If the system is at equilibrium and we are assuming it is an ideal system then if you are putting 350W in at the pump and getting 700W out of the hot side then you are pulling 350W from whatever it is you are cooling. And the proper way to calculate efficiency for this type of device is, desired/input in this case the energy transfer of the cold side is our desired metric so: 350W/350W=1.0 or 100%. Just knowing work in at the pump and energy out of the heatsink isn't enough to calculate the actual efficiency of the system.
In actuality the efficiency is likely closer to say 0.9 so if you are putting 350W in at the pump you will be pulling 315W from whatever it is you are cooling.
I think if you had the fin stack the right way up, helping with convective heat transfer it would probably help a little better.
One thing that may have an affect is the direction of your air cooler. The heat pipes are designed to bring heat away, but it might be more difficult with the air cooler upside down. The fluid in the pipes will rise when it gets hot.
How about a 120mm centrifugal fan?
Peltier can be used as a supporter to the radiator. It can be in series to the radiator before and/or after.
I don't even know where to start... Lets start from the basic. 1. For cooling purpose DO NOT use 12volts. 2. There was ZERO insulation between hot and cold side, so the hot side was warming the cold side. 3. There was zero insulation in water pipes etc, when you want to go close ambient or lower, you will need good insulation everywhere because the room is heating up all the surfaces that are not insulated. Here are couple ideas for you, which i have tested and can confirm working, use 2x12706 stacked and run them at 5volts. This way you can easily reach 40-degrees under ambient temp, measured from surface of peltier. This method also uses WAY less watts (20watts) than running 1x12706 at 12volts (72watts) and it also makes MUCH LESS useless heat in the warm side. Currently my best result is using: 12710+12708+12703 stacked, running them all at 5volt, about 45watts and the cold side goes 57-degrees under ambient temperature. In a nut shell: 1.Drop voltage 2. Use stacked method 3. GOOD insulation and you can see some serious schit to happen. ;)
"the perfect amount of thermal paste... " Love this channel! Hey, link that break out board, if you will.
Now im curious as to how that would work without the Peltier element.
I had an all in one, CoolIt peltier setup years ago and that definitely worked. It had 3 peltiers sandwiched between 3 little water blocks (joined together in a loop) on one side, and a round central doughnut like radiator in the middle, on the other side. One end of the radiator doughnut was closed and had a waterpump bolted to the back side, the other open end had a fan sucking air out the back of my case. It used a lot of power but my temps never exceeded 20 degrees celsius.
You can put the peltier in the reservoir of the 360 loop and see if we can squeeze more performance out of the system.
Rather put ice in it really
it's gonna freeze on the surface of the TEC
Here's a challenge for you: somehow merge two water blocks into a single double sided one and put one of those air coolers on each side
As soon as I read Peltier in the title: Nope. Doesn't work. Whatever it is, it doesn't work.
I wonder if the CPU could reach below ambient if the peltier is mounted to the CPU and the hot side is cooled by the watercooling loop going to 360° rad. In essence, a waterblock - peltier -cpu sandwich
Lotta people have tried that it's not pretty
I had a similar concept ,except my version consists of a custom-made water block where the inlet and outlet pipes of the water block are mounted from the side of the block, instead of being mounted to the top of the water block, and connected to a radiator. This then allows you to mount an air cooler to the top of the water block to further assist the radiator in helping cool the cpu. Can you see any logic with this method???
I’m to the point now where I just wait for your videos to be uploaded the rest of TH-cam is just boring. Awesome work. I love watching these awesome experiments
What would happen if you sandwiched the peltier directly between the CPU and an air cooler instead of using thermal paste (similar to using a thermal pad)? Would the effectiveness of the air cooler increase at all?
What i wanted to see was the TEC in loop after the 360mm rad. (both in same loop) making CPU>hot->RADIATOR>warm->TEC>cold->CPU
@Major Hardware try this setup except with 200+w Tec.
You'll need more peltier elements, to make it cool. one is just too ineffiecient, so if you make a loop with like 10-14 peltier elements, it could work
On this vain, it could be limited by voltage, I have 2 peltiers and they're rated between 12v to 36v
Unfortunately no. Peltiers are only effective in large applications. The devices he is using are only capable of a couple of watts each of thermal power and as such are easily overwhelmed by a CPU. These are more effective as thermoelectric generators. You can even see them on some stoves connected to a fan motor to stir the air.
There is a german channel that tried this with several radiators and several high rated peltiers and a ton of fans and it still failed
@@SoranoGuardias the also work well in those coolers
@@sinformant it was @Der8auer and i watched that viedeo too
How about put that setup in line either before and or after a radiator and see how it effects cooling, of at all.
Der8auer did that some time ago. th-cam.com/video/YaOjrk98vPI/w-d-xo.html
Or at least somewhat similar
i have been waiting for you to do projects with peltier coolers :).. i have a little idea.. try put the peltiers on the radiator , or peltiers in a closed box and then have the heatsink with the hot side stick out of the box so that does not generate heat inside the box, and for better cooling performance you could add a heatsink or some other metal block to the cold side on the peltier inside the box with the radiator i think that might think that could work , also remember to add rgb light for extra cool performance
I'm wondering if you put a stock or low profile heatsink on the cool side and stick it in a box would it cool a couple sodas or beers?
They sell those... that’s what they use in cars to cool the drinks (they are the $20 soda fridge), of course the heat dumped into your car is 10x higher than what it’s extracting so they use huge amount of power (maybe 30x more power than a regular fridge), but they do use them for that, it’s just terribly slow and inefficient.
*@Major Hardware*
Where do you think the bottle neck is in that peltier setup? The water cooler?
This would be interesting to see if you hooked up several tec/air cooler setups in series just for giggles and see if passing the water over several cool side tecs would make it work.
De8auer used 12 peltiers/air coolers. th-cam.com/video/GZ3SwM2-rD4/w-d-xo.html
I really think if you get some decent waterblocks and a couple better peltiers and but them in a series to cool the water, you could get some cool results
Did the peltier have enough current supplied? These things can take a lot
Did you try they same setup, without the peltier cooler in the middle? Just the water block with the air-cooler.
Aren't the heatpipes on the aircooler being really limited by being upside down?
Peltier works. I remember even Cooler Master adding one on their V10. It was a gimmick at that price, but it added something. It just that even if it can make a temperature difference on both sides, it's limited in how much thermal power it can transfer.
"Yeah, we're doin things!"....lol. Great stuff man :D
Possibly use the peltier after the rad to give it some extra cooling?
I would have liked to see if it would help running inline with the rad. How many deg it would drop (if any) with the peltier in the loop.
Can you connect it with the rediator? So the water firs cooles by the rediator and then getting below ambient by the paltier. Maybe getting a better block and putting even two paltier one after the other.
Doesn't the air cooler need to be standing right side up for the heat pipes to work properly?
Need more! How many Tek/heat-sinks does it take to actually cool? 5? 10? 20?
Hi mate!, Would love to see a rad immediately following the CPU to dump most of the heat, then have a TEC to cool the water before it heads back to the CPU. TECs can create good deltas, but dont manage large heat loads well.
What's the model of the palitier Is it the 100 watt one?
Where can buy 2:08 ?
Does having the heatsink upside down have any affect on the way the heat flows through the heat pipes?
Have you tried it with the cooler in the designed position?
Either sideways, or with the heat source at the bottom?
Heat pipes tend to work in the right orientation
Dell offered a water loop with a Peltier block called H2C. The XPS 710/720/730 had it as an expensive option. It was regulated to not go below ambient temperature. If it goes below ambient temperature the radiator starts adding heat into the loop. This also avoided condensation issues. It had 2x Peltier chips after the radiator. Peltier can easily go well below ambient if you have enough of them. But then condensation will need to be considered.
Isn't the aircooler need to face upwards to let the water in the heatpipes rise upwards?
I wonder if it would drop temps at all relative to the 360 if you just put it after the rad?
Would it have made any difference if the air cooler was not upside down and the heat could rise towards the heat pipes?
Hello, on the off chance I get read, where/whats the source for your electrical plenum, circuit board?
Think der8auer used something like 12 peltiers to get loop cooled, so yeah 1 ain't cutting it :)
Yes, it was 12.th-cam.com/video/GZ3SwM2-rD4/w-d-xo.html
I always thought the best way to do this would be to use a peltier + air cooler in addition to the radiator. AFAIK the peltier's goign to be sucking X number of watts out of thermal energy out of the water regardless of delta, right? So have the water go out of the cpu into the radiator first to dump as much into the air as possible that way, then when the delta is lower use the peltier to push the water temperature down even further.
How would it go if you use the water block for removing the heat from peltier instead? This is interesting
My new fav channel, everything you do is great work man, keep it up!
I dunno if it matters that the heat sink and heat pipes are upside down but anyway
I noticed the same thing. How can the liquid fall to the hot part and have its phase change into vapor so it can get to the cool part, when it’s upside down? Now i have to search for a test of right side up vs upside-down. Lol
Would it be possible to add a condenser to the cooling tower water cool to minimize water loss?
How about cooling the peltier with the 360mm Rad?
Isn't the cooling tower less efficient when it's upside down like that?
The fact that you ACTUALLY got something from WISH is in itself a miracle! I JUST got some filament that I ordered in MAY last week! (if I had ordered it from Amazon, and had it shipped from the China warehouse) in 14 days!
In the realm of techtubers, you've definitely solidified your place as the Mad Scientist between stuff like this and the ongoing fan experiments. I love it!
Revisiting this with a better peltier and a larger/better waterblock would be a worth it. Maybe place your reservoir between the blocks so the CPU block is receiving the coldest water?
Betteridge's law of headlines. Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."
That B-roll... Damn man, love your channel, its easy to see the work you put into your channel and its a blast to watch
Might be a dumb idea, but why not just cool the cpu normally, but with the peltier cooler between the IHS and the water block/air cooler?
How about putting that inn an already working loop(rad, pump and everything) Will it cool down the loop?
Could you try water cooling and then using the TEC setup to go below ambient?
Why didnt you hook it into the loop to see if it could drop temps even bu a degree or 2?
This project can be done to create a water chiller. The main problem is having enough surface area on the cold side. And a massive slab of copper would be quite expensive right now. I actually had a idea similar to this utilizing and dual loop and a heat exchange block in between. Planned to cool the pelts with the alphacool cape cora which is a classic favorite of mine which I have bought. Never got around to the project / extensive video editing.
wonder how many watt peltier cooler you got
Can you put multiple peltiers across the front of a rad to cool better than fans?
Do you know the brand of the frosted soft tubing u have in the video?
Why not the peltier directly on the cpu and the heatsink on top? Thermal paste in between both
Since you already have all the components try this simple modification:
CPU block -> radiator -> peltier block -> back to CPU block
Let's see if is possible to achieve sub ambient coolant temperature. Added bonus, use your water cooled air cooler to cool the peltier for extra lols! And if you use the cooling tower to cool the coolant of the water cooled air cooler it would just be PERFECT!
How about sandwich the Peltier module between the CPU and AIO water block?
damn i just watched linus do a few videos of him and alex trying to cool a 7700k with a peltier at stock full load and couldnt get it to cool it
Because his setup was poor
If you want it to work then either you want the Peltier modules to be directly on the CPU and have a water block on it or you could have an fan cooler on it.
What was the power draw of the peltier?
Is it possible to make a fan that is also an air raid siren? If so, does it work?
I wonder if the water wasn't staying in the block long enough for it to get cooled down. You may, either, need a water block with a longer groove so the water stays in it longer or a longer water block with more peltier chips attached. But, in that case, how many chips before the cost of electricity outweighs the cooling efficiency?
Would it be possible to make the Peltier device use less voltage to keep the CPU at 30c or something achievable?
I have always wanted to know what the impact would be, if you had a cooling loop that had a TEC cooling a block that the CPU loop went through, and an AIO on the hot side of the TEC. So not removing any of the original water loop cooling capability with the radiator. It's pretty clear you can't replace any kind of cooling with a TEC, but can you enhance the water cooling?
I've seen so many experiments like this, the result is always the same: Peltier cells works but they are NOT EFFICIENT enough at the point that you'll have better results just removing them from the loop. EDIT: but we always need Major Hardware to do experiments like this, to look and find if the things the vendors sell us are the better ways to do them, or if they could be improved in some ways! Thank you Major, you're our hero! Greetings from Italy
can you build build a waterloop that cooling a 400w peltier modul that cooling the processor
Push 5-6 amps and 12-14 volts trough it? I made a mini fridge out of one with a cpu heat sync and a sound card heat sync and it required a lot of power to get it to 40F
Can you link where to buy the 24pin break out board at?