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I use a small brush and some 80/90 gear lube very sparingly and then wipe of the excess, keeps them rust free and they do seem to rotate a tad bit more freely IMO. I didn't lube chains for quite a few years but now that I've been married for over 30 years I spend a lot more time alone in the shed working on my dirt bikes and lubing my chain.
I recently started using 75-W90 gear oil on my chain, thanks to FortNine's analysis of different lubrication options. It is inexpensive, easy to apply (I purchased an old-school oil can), does not spray on my rear tire, wheel, or frame, and lubricates exceptionally well. Gear oil is designed to provide excellent viscosity in high-torque environments, so it would make sense that it works well on a dirt bike chain. The only pitfall is that it is pungent! The smell is like a combination of 5th wheel grease, gasoline, and motor oil. Reminds me of my days in the trucking industry...
EXTRA NOTES! Just heard from this dirt bike hire tour/hire business , stopped lubing chains years ago to see if it made any difference. Chain wear was identical with or without lube. That was across 10 bikes for years initially with chain lube, then a few years without. Backs up my experience to date. - P. Wheeler WHAT ABOUT ROAD BIKES? I suspect chain lube may be a good idea for long highway miles. I can't find studies to confirm this. Here is what Rob Y. said... "My street bikes, the chain runs cooler per infrared thermometer when there's lube on it (one hour test at 80+ mph). Experimented with running a dry chain, the rollers burnish themselves to a mirror shine. All the rollers still rotate freely and my chain is fine but I think there's definitely increased friction at least in high speed applications. I still use WD-40 to clean my chain. But, I throw on a thin layer of dry lubricant on the rollers..." THE PERFECT CHAIN LUBE? "I use only the finest certified organic KTM tears. The highest grade is harvested from 790/890 riders with recurring electrical problems during the first month of the riding season." - Carlos FURTHER READING Not a true scientific study, but one guy tested WD40, kerosene etc on o-rings: www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345397 What tends to cause o-rings to fail: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-ring#Failure_modes Performance benefits of lube for non-o-ring chains: www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/ILT-10-2015-0142/full/html Fortnine's chain lube tests: th-cam.com/video/VnPYdcbcAe0/w-d-xo.html
I have this molybdenum disulfide spray that goes on wet but dries completely leaving a film of moly. i haven't tried it but could possible give you lubrication with zero tack. its made by dupont. MOLYKOTE® D-321 R Anti-Friction Coating Spray whether it is worth the effort to give you some kind of lower friction performance gains is an open question but it may just be the ticket for someone who just has to have a lube on some kind on their chain. this may just be the ticket for not o-ring chains?? anyway just some thoughts I'm going to get a go on my road bike for the hell of it. by the way it will make you a chain all Gray and yucky looking. so it's probably not for KTM riders ;-)
+1 to WD40 or similar. Learned it from a pro desert racer and Baja California winner who ran a business with a fleet of 450’s for rider training in sandy desert. I bought a bike off him and that was his advice. Never looked back.
I think there is one proof in favor of oiling the chain. Scott oilers and other automatic oiling system seems to increase longevity of chains and sprockets significantly. What this seems to indicate is that in fact those can of chain lube applied to the chain are not staying where the friction occurs long enough to make any differences in wear, but constantly applying chain oil to the chain seem to provide benefits to longevity. So oil chain is not useless, it might increase the life of your chain if you use an automatic oiling system or if you stop every 50 meters to re-apply chain lube from a can to your chain. This does not contradict your position, it reaffirms it, but it adds an important nuance to the concept of lubing chain for longevity.
I agree with the wd40 for the chain idea. That is all I use since the sealed chains came out. Back in the 70s before o ring chains once a month I would do a hot grease soak of my chain. Use a stainless steel bowl big enough to hold your chain. Fill it with enough grease to cover the chain and heat gently to melt the grease. Leave it cooking for 20 minutes after the grease becomes liquid then let it stand until cool. Wipe off the excess grease and reinstall the chain. Chain lasted 1 1/2 to 2 years
I stopped oiling my chains on the dirt bikes just a few months after beginning riding. The attraction of dirt (abrasive) is what made me reconsider. 195 hours on my 300 XCW chain and it still looks good. After reading through some of the comments, I wonder what a "Stop Leak" product would do for a chain. If you watch any Project Farm vids, he does a great test of these products and they actually do rejuvenate the rubber components (seals). Hmmm, I actually think this is a really great idea. Funny how things work out like that.......
I'm a bit late for this video but anyway. From what I know the wear parts are lubricated with an oil contained by the rubber seals. However, these seals wear against both the inner and outer links. The oil the seals contain does not sufficiently protect the seals themselves from this wear. If the seals get worn they'll no longer be able to contain the oil and the wear between pins and rollers increase. Dry lube does not attract particles (at least it's not meant to) and doesn't fling of the chain onto your bike. But it easily washes off with just water. Wet lube works better in wet conditions but tends to attract particles and can easily fly off the chain. So really it depends on driving conditions. A lot of comments mention using WD-40 and that's a dry lube (albeit not specifically meant for chains) and probably works similarly to an expensive dry chain oil. I think the most important part is like many have said, keep it clean and rust-free. I'll probably start using WD-40 as well.
My understanding is that lubing a chain is intended for keeping the exterior of the o-rings from drying out. And for that purpose, gear oil will do just fine.
For my adventure bike I designed, built and installed an oiler that applies one drop of 80-90 gear oil between the chain and rear sprocket every 90 seconds of operation.. The constant addition of oil in a controlled amount tends to keep the chain fairly clean in dusty conditions. My main focus is lubing the sprockets, after all, the chain may not need oil but the sprocket teeth do. Sprockets wear out and fail while the chain is still functional, even though it is worn. I have used this system on 5 motorcycles but haven't yet accumulated many thousands of miles on any one of them to site hard evidence. What I see is a system that prevents rust, and shows no wear after 5000 miles. The rear wheel gets a light coating of oil that wipes off easily with a rag as opposed to chain lube that collect dirt and are a pain to remove from the rear wheel.
Before O-ring chains existed I used to use STP oil treatment. A friends dad was a chemist and compared it to some off the shelf chain lube and the key ingredients were the same, which made sense. All kinds of crap stuck to it but back then it was either motor oil or chain lube. Chain wax started to be a thing but I was neve impressed with it. Fast forward and I bounced back and forth on O-ring and non-O-ring. A buddy of mine owned a company that made moly lube that was in a liquid carrier for industrial chains which worked real good. I'd pressure wash the snot out of the chain (non-O-ring) and then apply this stuff and it dissipated the water and deposited a dry film of moly. Once I went full off road I always use an O-ring chain. I never pressure wash it but after gentle washing I spray it with WD-40. In fact I spray every metal part and all of the engine with it. I buy it by the gallon. It's served me well and occasionally I'll spray some chain lube on it but only because I have had a can for 5 years that I feel guilt not using. All you need to do with an O-ring chain is to keep it from rusting.
I use a very cheap chain lube mainly for rust prevention. It is teflon-based and helps against rust and makes less mud stick to the chain. Many guys i know use old gearbox-oil which is a great idea, but to be honest, i am too lasy to get out the brush every time so i enjoy the ease-of-use of the teflon spray.
I clean my o-ring chain with kerosene and lube with Klontz or Belray blue label chain lube They both contain solvent that penetrates rollers, flashes off after a hour or so and leaves behind a thick tacky lube wipe off excess. After cleaning ride for five miles or so before lubing, its best if you lube a warm chain. A lubed chain runs smoother with less friction. I can't but help but believe a smooth running quiet chain with less friction will make it and the sprockets last longer. For this to do any good it must be done often. Tried chain wax and I believe its pretty much worthless. O-ring chains are still roller chains, o-rings seal and protect the factory greased small pins which run through the chain and connect side plates. Hardened rollers that contact sprocket teeth are free to roll on some form of bushing that is not sealed, this is usually what wears out. In an extreme wear case a chain will be missing rollers but the sealed chain is still in one piece. If you pull your clutch lever in and your chain sounds like a hay baler probably needs some attention. lol
I use gear oil like my manual says, however, I feel like after I clean the chain and lube it, the next ride it gets particularly dirty. After a brush off and run the next ride it stays clean if I don’t relube. So maybe putting anything on is bad and it’s better to just keep the chain clean and maybe spray some wd-40 silicone spray on every so often to protect against rust.
100% Did the chain wax in the beginning and realized after every long ride and wash, I had to start over..and for what? Was very expensive. Like you said, just about the rust. WD40 or Boe-Shield....call it a day. Great video as always!!
Been using wd40 and biltema x4 mulit spray for years now. Road and offroad. I have found zero problems with this. On street bikes wd40 etc with NOT coat your rims in chain lube, so they stay clean longer too ;) PS: The quality of the chain has ALOT to say on how long it will last. I say use the money saved on not buying "quality" chain lube to buy quality chains insted.
Clean constantly, WD-40 treatment, then prior to riding I just use light coat of gear oil. Repeat after every trip. Well I do this to my entire bike. Good video. 👍
Great points. I can't really disagree with any of them. I will simply share my experience. I have a spark initiated timer mounted on my CRF250R. The chain and sprockets were changed 116 engine hours ago. They are still in great shape. I lube mine every ride. Maybe 30 hours ago I switched to wax from a foaming oil. While the internals have sealed lubrication the rollers and sprockets can benefit from lube as well. I believe this increases the life of the sprockets themselves. Obviously the only true test would be to run the same equipment both ways and view the results. Most of us do not ride enough to try that. So I guess we are left with our own unsubstantiated opinions. Nice video. Thanks.
Wash, WD-40, wipe clean. Currently at 393 hours on the chain on my ktm 300 and going strong. Although you could shave with the edge of the master link clip!
personal experience , used chain lube wax ect for years, chain always seemed to attract more grit hence wearing it out quicker , now i use wd or silicone spray to prevent rust
I used to use chain lubes because it was what I was brought up to do. But after watching a video of yours ages ago, FortNine's video on the subject and cracking the shits with the amount of cleaning I was doing after every ride. I made the switch to a light spray of WD-40. Absolute game changer and haven't looked back.
Great to hear, Derek. Same here, I was forever trying to clean all that crap off my bikes and eventually realised I didn't need to go through all that....
I've tried all the lubes in my decades of riding. Sticky, 90wt, motor oil, chain wax. Now I just use wd40 or silicon spray after gently washing my chain. I think the key is to just preserve the life and integrity of the o-rings. The chain lasts longer for me this way. Heck, the sticky lubes were actually decreasing the life of my chains. I'm assuming the grit was being turned into a grinding paste.
I use Tri-Flow with Teflon. Three drops per pin, one drip for each O-Ring and one for the roller. Keeps rust away and my chains/ sprockets almost never wear out, same with my road bicycle and Mtn Bike. I know it works because the chains don't stretch, ever!
I like triflow since it is very light but removes dirt with a simple wipe. Lubing the chain probably isn't necessary, but cleaning it is imperative. If you don't clean the chain, you are weating out sprockets faster too.
I quit lubing the chains on my dirt bikes and adventure bikes after your last vid on this topic... haven't had enough hours/miles yet to make any conclusion but one thing has been nice - not being hassled to lube my chain between rides while out camping or periodically on long adv trips! Totally agree with not power washing and preventing rust though, I just use a hose and grunge brush to clean them then WD40 to prevent rust.
It does make long rides more relaxing, Matt! Having said that, we did an eight day adv ride when it was very wet so we did hit the chains with a mini can of WD40 at the end of each day... just to prevent rust.
I always clean and lube as part of my aftercare following a ride on both my enduro and adventure bike, although recently moved from a road lube for my Honda Africa Twin to a offroad PTFE lube - im not sure if it makes much difference other than helping me protect the surface of the chain & sprockets and assist with cleaning the mud and grime off of it - that just helps me out after the ride.
I use chain saw bar oil with anti-fling formula. I apply a light coat of oil with a toothbrush every 500km's. I know it is not about lubrication, but to prevent corrosion in the o-ring area. My chain looks clean and I use bike-detergent like muc-off to clean it, then hose it down with the garden hose in low pressure. Forget lube, think anti-corrosion
To prevent rust, i use Lanotec - based on lanolin from sheeps wool. It dries, does not attract dust, environmentally friendly and prevents rust. Buy it from Bunnings (Australia).
Insteresting, Andrew... I didn't know that. So I looked it up. Lanolin (from Latin lāna 'wool', and oleum 'oil'), also called wool yolk, wool wax, or wool grease, is a wax secreted by the sebaceous glands of wool-bearing animals. Lanolin used by humans comes from domestic sheep breeds that are raised specifically for their wool. Historically, many pharmacopoeias have referred to lanolin as wool fat (adeps lanae); however, as lanolin lacks glycerides (glycerol esters), it is not a true fat. Lanolin primarily consists of sterol esters instead. Lanolin's waterproofing property aids sheep in shedding water from their coats. Certain breeds of sheep produce large amounts of lanolin. Lanolin's role in nature is to protect wool and skin from climate and the environment; it also plays a role in skin (integumental) hygiene. Lanolin and its derivatives are used in the protection, treatment and beautification of human skin
@@crosstrainingenduro such a great product for rust prevention, we use it in salt water environment to prevent oxidisation of electrical and comms connections military ships. Cheapest form of spray on maintenance you’ll ever find.
Im 59 and have ridden bikes since I was 9 . I use oring, xring chains the last 20 years , don't know if lube helps but i always put some on after i washed the bike after a ride . And never before the sandpits, dunes etc..
Yep, used engine oil on the XR650Rs. Keeps the chain quiet if nothing else. When we do break the chain after some unknown kms, we find they are still wet with oil or grease. Spray lubes are 100% crap for us in the dust.
Same here. I do use chain wax, but only after every wash to prevent rust and never otherwise. I’ve already figured I’d switch to wd40 but haven’t ran out of the chain wax yet
Hi I clean chain off with chain brush and wd40, sometimes I rinse off the wd40 and put dry chain lube on from my sport bike but I don’t use Off road chain lube as it’s worse then leaving the chain unlubed
WD-40, I use on every moving part and some the don't move . If I know it's a mud run I spray WD-40 under the fenders, skid plates and use Pam cooking spray on mud exposed exhaust parts. Chain wax always seemed like a gimmick to me.
Always making sure chain is clean and I use Castrol gear oil75w90 every 500km and yes making sure no rust. WD forks fine but it will dry your seals very quickly. Thats why in Europe we're using gear oil(doesn't attract any dirt and it's just preventing maintenance as you said you will have to change chain anyway)
Got some simple green after watching that FortNine video, but now I realize it's water based which could be a problem with rust? I was using maxima chain cleaner before, but WD40 works fine and should damage the O rings less. Was using maxima multi purpose penetrant lube and chain wax too. Might use 10W-40 engine oil since it's around the same viscosity as 75W-90 gear oil.
I experience the same as you. Chain Lube doesn't "improve preformance" it just keeps the chain from rusting in my experience. I only use o ring and x ring chains, also i only use it AFTER washing to prevent rust while storing between rides
in my old racing days i used to clean my chain in unleaded by soaking it for a few hours and brushing it with a stiff brush then id hang to dry then id soak the whole thing in molten wax and then hang to dry. These days I just use a chain brush when cleaning my bike with warm soapy water and give a light misting with wd40 or similar if i can be bothered. That includes a lot of beach work.
I reckon the warm soapy water is better... I suspect the issue with cleaning in unleaded is that if some o-rings are starting to wear it might let enough in to dissolve the grease. Whereas water is less likely to get in, and it wouldn't dissolve the grease. I don't have any proof for this. But I remember years ago I'd clean my chains with petrol and eventually stopped when I thought about this.
Yamaha synthetic clear spray on chain lube is by far the best thing I've ever used. I simply spin the back wheel while grabbing the chain tightly with a rag and gloved hand to remove loose grit. Then spray the chain generously along both edges while spinning the wheel till coated. After the majority of the solvents have evaporated I repeat the wipe down with a rag thing. In my experience any heavy type lubes just attract more dirt and grit. I've tried just about everything over the years and this clear synthetic stuff is the best.
A buddy has a can, we compared and can't tell the difference between the Yamaha stuff and the Maxima stuff. Likely a rebrand in one direction or the other. I like it too.
@@adaycj Oh, most definitely made by "somebody" but not Yamaha. Keeping the x-rings clean and soft is gonna make a difference for some dirt bikers. But if your doing all out hardcore enduro riding in wicked mud or dry dusty sandy stuff, it's gonna be negligible as to any real advantage for durability?
I rarely maintain my KTM 350 chain (clean/lube), so I am actually on your side. OTOH. I own a BMW 650 Dakar for 240,000 km. I use scottsoiler since day 1. I used to hurt the small hose offroad (until I relocated it), and no doubt, without it, the chains held 12,000, and with it more than 30,000. Not sure if I should have left it on in the dirt (mostly, dust). I did. BTW, I use automatic transmission fluid, according to the recommendation.
Back in days of old we bought 3 brand new xr 400s 2 of them lubed the chain every ride and mine didn’t get anything and it lasted longer than the lubed ones but I did wash it with hose to get grit off after every ride
I ride a Husqvarna 701 as an adventure bike. I lube the chain but not often, I probably go 3,000 miles between lubes. I have 10,000 miles on the chain now with no problems. Let’s see if I can get another 10,000 miles.
Chain lube might be more expensive but I've found that a can lasts a really long time . . . I've kept an FZ1 chain running for 20 years with no proper cleaning but with occasional sprays of motorcycle-specific lube (even after the chain has kinked after long rides in the rain).
I use WD-40 after any water contact (so after I'm done washing the bike or if it rains while riding) and usually use chain wax to keep it from rusting during prolonged storage. I live in Florida so WD-40 only lasts so long before the humidity gets to it. But I agree that lube doesn't change the wear on the chain and sprocket from normal use.
Chain lube can get past the chain seals just like oil gets past sealed bearings in gearboxes. Wheel and linkage bearings will last 500+ hours if you spray chain lube on the seals, even in the mud here in NZ. I give mine a squirt every ride, best if it has a couple days to soak. Swing arm, lower shock, brake peddle, wheels, pegs and chain.
Do you have any evidence for chain lube getting past chain seals though? All indications are the seals prevent this until they wear out sufficiently... Many have argued that solvents get past seals and destroy the internal grease but there's no evidence for this.
@@crosstrainingenduro Only that once there worn out and I break the link to remove the chain it's full of black gloop the same as my wheel and swingarm bearings have.
WD40 after a good wash and before a long ride (ie when the bike is still clean). Mostly just to keep the rust off as we live in the tropics (Thailand) so it’s more about stopping rust than actual lube. Love the channel by the way
@@crosstrainingenduro Am in Hua Hin, about 3 hours south of Bangkok. Some great trails around and a great bunch of blokes to ride with, much like your mates I think
i think this is a case where we can learn from the chainsaw industry. those chains see a lot more particulates than any motorbike chan and they call for a gloppy gear oil type stuff. but thain again the drives for a chainsaw are a lot harder than motorcycle sprockets. and they don't rely wear.
Bar lube on a chainsaw has to do with the cutting edge going through the wood not the chain rubbing against the running gear so what they use for chainsaws isn't really applicable for motorbikes
@@tcmx712 , Correct it's primarily for lubing the bar, to fight thermal stretch on the chain, which happens in the end anyway, and taking load off the engine as much as possible.
I clean my chain every oil change with wd40 and a small wire brush and then wipe it down and lightly coat it with motul Offroad chainlube. Not nessesary with a oring chain, but keeps it spinning effortlessly and been doing it for 15+ years on multiple bikes and never had a broken or kinked chain
I don't lube o-ring chains, just wipedowns with WD40 if I see buildup starting on them. This includes my roadrace machines like a an R6, and my street bikes. My 150SX has a roller chain from the factory, I've likely not lubed it enough in it's first 12hrs of life 'cause, used to o-ring chains so it's getting a proper sealed chain this winter to match the rest of the garage.
99% street rider here...80/90W gear oil. I carry it in a small 3 oz paint jar with a brush cap (like rubber cement comes in). Brush it on, and when you think you've wiped enough of the excess off, wipe it some more. I probably would not oil it immediately prior to going off road. Switched from spray lube to the gear oil and don't plan on going back.
I've been using "Dupont Teflon Chain Saver" from the big box hardware store for a couple years on the EXCF. Not that messy but it still does attract dirt and leaves a continual dirt scum on the sprocket & hub. Just got a new chain & both sprockets to put on so I think I'll try out the WD40 and see how it goes.
I use 70w gear oil as recommended by chain manufacturer. After washing, I clean the chain with a chain brush, then coat with WD40 or equal then store bike. Before each ride, I apply a thin coat of gear oil. It makes a mess of the surrounding area, but the only benefit is momentary lubrication and the gear oil repels water for a period. I have 149 hrs. on the stock chain and rear sprocket with many more hrs. left, and I replaced the front sprocket around 95 hrs. TX 300i
310 hours and 13000 km with just WD40 every 300-500 km to control rust, just replaced the sprockets and chain, the front sprocket was showing too much wear.
Some very popular offroad spray lube manual says: apply at o rings only to prolong their lifespan hence chain life span. I think sheer age plays here a big role, as many who didnt noticed a change in life span after stoped lubing just happen to wear and tear chain completely before rubber aging begins matter.
I did look into this, trying to find out exactly what o-rings are made of, and whether any particular products might extend their lifespan... but without any luck.
@@crosstrainingenduro yes, but part where manufacturer directly says this "lube" not for lubing lube - somewhat show this actual lubing need from other side
Agreed, rust prevention is the primary goal. Anything else just leads to nasty buildup. You might find this interesting but apparently the horsepower loss with o-ring versus non-oring change is minimal once they are hot. Back to back dyno tests show this. At least with road racing applications.
I havent lube my chain with chain lube for years. I run the bike in 1st gear with the rear wheel of the ground and hose the chain near the front sprocket. After that, I run it in top gear with the wheel of the ground and that spins the water out of the links. Spray with wd40 or inox and thats it. The wd40 gets into the rollers, which is the part that wears. All my mates do this as well and we have doubled our chain and sprocket life.
I use the Maxima clear wax stuff. Does any parts last longer? No way. It does go on clear, and may "lube the o-rings" if that is a thing. Or maybe not because it dries up and leaves clear coating. One benefit I can see. If I apply it after I wash the bike the chain doesn't rust. WD seems to dry up for me and in the places that it doesn't it attracts fine dust. A can is about $16USD and my current can is 5 years old and almost empty. WD is cheaper, but I have to use more and clean up a bit more. I also generally hate WD for almost anything, so my bias says I should give Maxima and their vendors their share of the $15 in profit every 5 years or so. Maxima does claim their chain wax is "proudly made in the USA" which is also a plus for me (so is WD), although I have no idea if they just mix up drums of stuff from overseas.
I’m 37 and my dad told me that about 20 year ago. And never had any problems with it. I change it when the manual says and when I sell my bikes guys are surprised how clean is everything around the chain.
I was riding about 4 months ago and ran into a guy on a ranger. I hadn't seen one and he was running a carbon belt. He said it was in development and asked me not to take pictures. But he said that rocks can destroy the teeth on the belt, so the hub had a guard that doesn't allow anything bigger than a grain of sand to get between the belt. He said he'd been riding the same belt for a year and had done absolutely nothing to it maintenance wise. He was telling me how he thought it'd change the sport
Interesting... I wonder how easily the guard could be broken though if you dropped the bike against rocks. And it would have to be 100% waterproof if riding through muddy water?
@@crosstrainingenduro He told me that it has a groove in it that washes the hub whenever you cross water and cleaned the belt. And it had a long track on the bottom that was mostly enclosed with some kind of tension pulley
Same experience here - no lube for a few years on dual-sport off road and ADV mixed off and off road. All my "science" (log all maintenance and compare chain/sprocket R&R intervals) shows no difference. I save the equivalent of $100 of chain/sprocket set which almost pays for a chain/sprocket set (if you shop around). Zero maintenance and no more messy cleanup now. I live in CA so we rarely see mud. If I lived in mud or salt water areas I'd use $0.25 worth of wd-40 after a ride. Thanks for the vid and the insistence on science and not "my friend on the internets said" anecdotal "evidence".
I hate the cast-off that most chain lubes leaves behind. Both with my enduro bike with an o-ring chain or my MX bike with a standard chain, I use chain lube sparingly. Unless you buy boutique brands of drive chains/sprockets, drive chains/sprockets are relatively cheap to replace when damaged and/or worn.
When I started riding I would buy expensive super tacky gooey and generally annoying chain lube. I stopped just from the annoyance of dealing with it. Now when I wash my bikes sometimes I put wd40 on it. Sometimes I forget and it gets a little rusty but it seems to still last like it would otherwise.
We tried over many years running harvester chains lubed or dry - hot, dusty, dry conditions with constant relatively low speed. Best life we saw out of chains - those oiled during storage to stop rust and then run dry (18 hours a day over five weeks). Taking the ten(ish) chains off and on each year was a shitty job that I’m glad I don’t have to do anymore - more time for riding.
Exactly the scenario I was thinking of when this video popped up. We lube most of the chains on combines couple three times a year - wish they made o-ring chains in 60H then I wouldn't bother at all.
Very interesting... I remember a lot of people going down this path 20 years ago, I thought it was odd using WD-40 on a chain... especially with its solvent properties.... After watching this, it's likely a case of the chain will wear out for other reasons, regardless of Lubrication or Not. Very interesting topic though... I remember the old non o-ring chains, you could buy this oil bath kit. You took your chain off, placed in the supplied metal tray with the gease/oil product and low baked it in the oven. The results were amazing, and would stay like new for many rides. Do the O-ring or X-Ring manufactures recommend external lubrication?
All the manufacturers recommend lube. But they never quote an science or tests to back it up. And of course if they make lube they recommend their own brand.
@@crosstrainingenduro Yes, I figured as much. I'm trying to think of an industrial chain application to see what is recommended. But it's hardly comparing Apple's with Apple's. I used to lubricate my chain the night before, in hope to just stop it flicking off... but invariably, that's all that happens to 90% of it
Ran the stock chain on my 2016 300xc riding rocks and single track until last week when I dropped my bike off for its first service after 500 hours. Actually other than cleaning the air filter I did nothing to the bike. All the gouges out of it from being thrown onto rock or tumbling down a mountain climb not to mention how many times I boiled the bike over in super technical sections attest to how unkillable a modern 2t is..
WD40 lover over here, After a good wash on the bike and chain, i blow with compressed air the last mud and water from the chain and lubricate it with WD40 . After a while i wipe the chain dry with a cloth. My D.I.D chain last forever, and this trick on my enduro bike is past on to my son's bikes. It does help to use a top brand O-ring chain though. I swear with D.I.D. and good sprockets. Since 2004.
I've always been a no chain lube kinda guy! Road bike, dirt bike, whatever. I only lube after a wash to prevent corrosion. I don't even clean my chain on my road bike, I actually don't even wash my road bike. Got 40,000kms from the first chain, book says replace at 20,000kms. Dirt bike chain gets hosed when I was the bike, and I spray it with cheap oil. Chain lube is for non o/x/r-ring chains. Can agree!
It would be great to see proper research done, Heath. But there are hundreds of comments from riders internationally reporting the same findings so I'm pretty sure we are right. I've only had one guy say his chain lasted twice as long with lube. But the unlubed one might have had a defect...
When I first got my bike I was using chain lube but didn't like the look of all the dirt sticking to it and the probable grinding action of it. Then decided to just use a thin smear of engine oil and a light wipe with a rag to remove any excess. Gets bugger all flung off and barely any dirt sticks to it.
Rapeseed-based chainsaw bar lube slightly dribbled on a clean shiny chain, then wiped with a clean rag works well. The resulting easy-clean light after-ride residue gives me an excuse to rub my Moto with a warm soapy sponge too🤪
I think in the long run it probably just doesn't matter. All the anecodotal evidence suggests your chain will last about the same time either way. I'd just suggest if you use a lube don't bother buying an expensive one.
102 hours on my 2020 KTM 300 with original chain and sprockets. I’m sure I’ll make it to 125 hours with them and I’ve never used lube on it. I pressure wash the chain after riding and dry the whole bike with a leaf blower. I have some cans of chain lube on the shelf but don’t even bother putting it on.
Two things make me think lube has a benefit. 1) When my chain became old it made a horrible clunking noise upon starting out. After lubing the chain it was fine or about 100 kms. (2) People using "Scott Oilers". They seem to be getting 60,000 to 80,000 km's from a set of chain and sprockets. Not sure where they ride, but some gravel is included. But, the cost for lubricant is getting to be too high. I am going to be doubling the price of the chain & sprockets by using lube!
It could be worth looking at gear oil to keep the price down... see Fortnine's vid about lube. Their test concluded it worked better than chain lubes. A lot of guys just use their old engine oil which is free, of course.
I don't knwo. I read on my XR manual to keep it lubricated so I do. I clean with kerosene and cloth then lubricate it with SAE 90 when I get back from trails. This way the chain keeps lubricated while the bike is parked inside the garage
I've heard WD40 will get past the orings and displace the lube behind them. I clean with kerosene and use dupont chain wax. The rear wheel definitely spins easier after I lube the chain. I run a sealed chain on both of my bikes a 2003 CR250R and a 2015 CBR600RR. The chain on my street bike gets annoyingly loud if it needs lubed.
I've heard the same thing but when you look at the pressure applied to o-rings nothing should get past them until they actually wear out. And you wouldn't want WD40 getting past in any case, they solvents would just destroy the inner grease.
No lube on my bikes. Keeping the chain clean and properly adjusted is the most important thing in my book. I do use a light bit of some light oil on a rag and coat the chain with it to keep the rust away, especially during storage. And be mindful when pressure washing your bike, seals seats and chains especially.
I use white lithium grease as it’s cheaper than MC lube but often just use WD40 as we always have it in the garage my DR650 is my daily ride and weekend bush beast.
Is that racing, or pushing the bike pretty hard, Larry? I'm interested as we do almost nothing but slow technical rides and at 150 hours there's almost no apparent sprocket wear...
My chain was not very old but the links were kinking. It seems like the rubber was dry where it meets the outer links. I oiled it and it stopped kinking.
Sounds like a cheap chain? Or you had faulty o-rings? If you can get some oil in past those faulty o-rings then you'll probably still get some life out of the chain....
It’s not actually lube that matters for modern x/o ring chains. It’s the rust prevention. Just be sure to use an anti-rust coating of your choice that won’t react with those x/o rings.
I ride a lot in riverbed, 'chalk' , any lube just mucks the chain up, I tried a wax lube for a while, then decided, to forget about it. I probably have 300+ hours on the current chain.
I'll agree that a bike used purely for off road isn't going to benefit from lubrication and just cleaning and stopping rust is all that's needed, but for bikes used for dual sports or road only lubrication does help, every chain I've tried without has lasted less miles than lubricated chains, and lubricated chains usuallylast twice as many miles, and the chain is in better condition when it's changed due to worn internal parts. Or just do what my mates does and don't clean anything at all, then when his chain breaks half way through a ride relies on someone else fixing it!
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I use a small brush and some 80/90 gear lube very sparingly and then wipe of the excess, keeps them rust free and they do seem to rotate a tad bit more freely IMO.
I didn't lube chains for quite a few years but now that I've been married for over 30 years I spend a lot more time alone in the shed working on my dirt bikes and lubing my chain.
lol
I use the exact same procedure and have over 12K miles on my T7 chain that is still in service specs.
I use the exact same procedure and have 13 years on my marriage certificate and she's still in service
I read about a guy that was arrested for lubing his
chain in public.
Marriage makes men enjoy the basement or garage a lot more. Divorced & free TFGOD!
I recently started using 75-W90 gear oil on my chain, thanks to FortNine's analysis of different lubrication options. It is inexpensive, easy to apply (I purchased an old-school oil can), does not spray on my rear tire, wheel, or frame, and lubricates exceptionally well. Gear oil is designed to provide excellent viscosity in high-torque environments, so it would make sense that it works well on a dirt bike chain. The only pitfall is that it is pungent! The smell is like a combination of 5th wheel grease, gasoline, and motor oil. Reminds me of my days in the trucking industry...
EXTRA NOTES! Just heard from this dirt bike hire tour/hire business
, stopped lubing chains years ago to see if it made any difference. Chain wear was identical with or without lube. That was across 10 bikes for years initially with chain lube, then a few years without. Backs up my experience to date. - P. Wheeler
WHAT ABOUT ROAD BIKES? I suspect chain lube may be a good idea for long highway miles. I can't find studies to confirm this. Here is what Rob Y. said... "My street bikes, the chain runs cooler per infrared thermometer when there's lube on it (one hour test at 80+ mph). Experimented with running a dry chain, the rollers burnish themselves to a mirror shine. All the rollers still rotate freely and my chain is fine but I think there's definitely increased friction at least in high speed applications. I still use WD-40 to clean my chain. But, I throw on a thin layer of dry lubricant on the rollers..."
THE PERFECT CHAIN LUBE? "I use only the finest certified organic KTM tears. The highest grade is harvested from 790/890 riders with recurring electrical problems during the first month of the riding season." - Carlos
FURTHER READING
Not a true scientific study, but one guy tested WD40, kerosene etc on o-rings: www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345397
What tends to cause o-rings to fail: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-ring#Failure_modes
Performance benefits of lube for non-o-ring chains: www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/ILT-10-2015-0142/full/html
Fortnine's chain lube tests: th-cam.com/video/VnPYdcbcAe0/w-d-xo.html
I have this molybdenum disulfide spray that goes on wet but dries completely leaving a film of moly. i haven't tried it but could possible give you lubrication with zero tack. its made by dupont. MOLYKOTE® D-321 R Anti-Friction Coating Spray
whether it is worth the effort to give you some kind of lower friction performance gains is an open question but it may just be the ticket for someone who just has to have a lube on some kind on their chain. this may just be the ticket for not o-ring chains??
anyway just some thoughts I'm going to get a go on my road bike for the hell of it.
by the way it will make you a chain all Gray and yucky looking. so it's probably not for KTM riders ;-)
I can't say anything about the chain lube but this comment borders on poetry.
+1 to WD40 or similar. Learned it from a pro desert racer and Baja California winner who ran a business with a fleet of 450’s for rider training in sandy desert. I bought a bike off him and that was his advice. Never looked back.
I think there is one proof in favor of oiling the chain. Scott oilers and other automatic oiling system seems to increase longevity of chains and sprockets significantly. What this seems to indicate is that in fact those can of chain lube applied to the chain are not staying where the friction occurs long enough to make any differences in wear, but constantly applying chain oil to the chain seem to provide benefits to longevity. So oil chain is not useless, it might increase the life of your chain if you use an automatic oiling system or if you stop every 50 meters to re-apply chain lube from a can to your chain. This does not contradict your position, it reaffirms it, but it adds an important nuance to the concept of lubing chain for longevity.
I agree with the wd40 for the chain idea. That is all I use since the sealed chains came out. Back in the 70s before o ring chains once a month I would do a hot grease soak of my chain. Use a stainless steel bowl big enough to hold your chain. Fill it with enough grease to cover the chain and heat gently to melt the grease. Leave it cooking for 20 minutes after the grease becomes liquid then let it stand until cool. Wipe off the excess grease and reinstall the chain. Chain lasted 1 1/2 to 2 years
I stopped oiling my chains on the dirt bikes just a few months after beginning riding. The attraction of dirt (abrasive) is what made me reconsider. 195 hours on my 300 XCW chain and it still looks good. After reading through some of the comments, I wonder what a "Stop Leak" product would do for a chain. If you watch any Project Farm vids, he does a great test of these products and they actually do rejuvenate the rubber components (seals). Hmmm, I actually think this is a really great idea. Funny how things work out like that.......
I'm a bit late for this video but anyway. From what I know the wear parts are lubricated with an oil contained by the rubber seals. However, these seals wear against both the inner and outer links. The oil the seals contain does not sufficiently protect the seals themselves from this wear. If the seals get worn they'll no longer be able to contain the oil and the wear between pins and rollers increase. Dry lube does not attract particles (at least it's not meant to) and doesn't fling of the chain onto your bike. But it easily washes off with just water. Wet lube works better in wet conditions but tends to attract particles and can easily fly off the chain. So really it depends on driving conditions. A lot of comments mention using WD-40 and that's a dry lube (albeit not specifically meant for chains) and probably works similarly to an expensive dry chain oil. I think the most important part is like many have said, keep it clean and rust-free. I'll probably start using WD-40 as well.
My understanding is that lubing a chain is intended for keeping the exterior of the o-rings from drying out. And for that purpose, gear oil will do just fine.
I've used gear oil for years and I stopped because it's just a mess.
You have a point and more importantly to prevent external rust
Oiling may attract dirt and other troubles
For my adventure bike I designed, built and installed an oiler that applies one drop of 80-90 gear oil between the chain and rear sprocket every 90 seconds of operation.. The constant addition of oil in a controlled amount tends to keep the chain fairly clean in dusty conditions. My main focus is lubing the sprockets, after all, the chain may not need oil but the sprocket teeth do. Sprockets wear out and fail while the chain is still functional, even though it is worn. I have used this system on 5 motorcycles but haven't yet accumulated many thousands of miles on any one of them to site hard evidence. What I see is a system that prevents rust, and shows no wear after 5000 miles. The rear wheel gets a light coating of oil that wipes off easily with a rag as opposed to chain lube that collect dirt and are a pain to remove from the rear wheel.
Before O-ring chains existed I used to use STP oil treatment. A friends dad was a chemist and compared it to some off the shelf chain lube and the key ingredients were the same, which made sense. All kinds of crap stuck to it but back then it was either motor oil or chain lube. Chain wax started to be a thing but I was neve impressed with it. Fast forward and I bounced back and forth on O-ring and non-O-ring. A buddy of mine owned a company that made moly lube that was in a liquid carrier for industrial chains which worked real good. I'd pressure wash the snot out of the chain (non-O-ring) and then apply this stuff and it dissipated the water and deposited a dry film of moly.
Once I went full off road I always use an O-ring chain. I never pressure wash it but after gentle washing I spray it with WD-40. In fact I spray every metal part and all of the engine with it. I buy it by the gallon. It's served me well and occasionally I'll spray some chain lube on it but only because I have had a can for 5 years that I feel guilt not using. All you need to do with an O-ring chain is to keep it from rusting.
I use a very cheap chain lube mainly for rust prevention. It is teflon-based and helps against rust and makes less mud stick to the chain. Many guys i know use old gearbox-oil which is a great idea, but to be honest, i am too lasy to get out the brush every time so i enjoy the ease-of-use of the teflon spray.
I clean my o-ring chain with kerosene and lube with Klontz or Belray blue label chain lube They both contain solvent that penetrates rollers, flashes off after a hour or so and leaves behind a thick tacky lube wipe off excess. After cleaning ride for five miles or so before lubing, its best if you lube a warm chain. A lubed chain runs smoother with less friction. I can't but help but believe a smooth running quiet chain with less friction will make it and the sprockets last longer. For this to do any good it must be done often. Tried chain wax and I believe its pretty much worthless. O-ring chains are still roller chains, o-rings seal and protect the factory greased small pins which run through the chain and connect side plates. Hardened rollers that contact sprocket teeth are free to roll on some form of bushing that is not sealed, this is usually what wears out. In an extreme wear case a chain will be missing rollers but the sealed chain is still in one piece. If you pull your clutch lever in and your chain sounds like a hay baler probably needs some attention. lol
I use gear oil like my manual says, however, I feel like after I clean the chain and lube it, the next ride it gets particularly dirty. After a brush off and run the next ride it stays clean if I don’t relube. So maybe putting anything on is bad and it’s better to just keep the chain clean and maybe spray some wd-40 silicone spray on every so often to protect against rust.
Tip for the extra cheap... Kerosene for cleaning and gear oil for rust protection if needed.
Stopped using chain lube after fortnine did his review years ago. Have had no issues.
100% Did the chain wax in the beginning and realized after every long ride and wash, I had to start over..and for what? Was very expensive. Like you said, just about the rust. WD40 or Boe-Shield....call it a day. Great video as always!!
Thanks Chris!
Been using wd40 and biltema x4 mulit spray for years now. Road and offroad. I have found zero problems with this. On street bikes wd40 etc with NOT coat your rims in chain lube, so they stay clean longer too ;) PS: The quality of the chain has ALOT to say on how long it will last. I say use the money saved on not buying "quality" chain lube to buy quality chains insted.
#GNAGGANG
Sounds like a good plan to me 😁
Clean constantly, WD-40 treatment, then prior to riding I just use light coat of gear oil. Repeat after every trip. Well I do this to my entire bike. Good video. 👍
Great points. I can't really disagree with any of them. I will simply share my experience.
I have a spark initiated timer mounted on my CRF250R. The chain and sprockets were changed 116 engine hours ago. They are still in great shape. I lube mine every ride. Maybe 30 hours ago I switched to wax from a foaming oil.
While the internals have sealed lubrication the rollers and sprockets can benefit from lube as well. I believe this increases the life of the sprockets themselves. Obviously the only true test would be to run the same equipment both ways and view the results. Most of us do not ride enough to try that. So I guess we are left with our own unsubstantiated opinions.
Nice video. Thanks.
Wash, WD-40, wipe clean. Currently at 393 hours on the chain on my ktm 300 and going strong. Although you could shave with the edge of the master link clip!
Why I use chain lube:
Chain without lube squeaks occasionally
Chain with lube doesn't squeak
I clean my chain with the oil from seized ktm engines mixed with rider tears…works wonders!
I use the oil from Beta's after cases are split to replace faulty main bearings.
I believe in re-purposing
@@firffighter Ha ha I knew someone would go there lol!
Great idea, thank you, what ratio do you recommend?
@@ValentineFarm
50:1
Same ratio of KTM's vs Beta's sold.
Or, 1000:1 which is the ratio of titles KTM vs Beta in off road racing.
Or
@@LCARSADV 😉
personal experience , used chain lube wax ect for years, chain always seemed to attract more grit hence wearing it out quicker , now i use wd or silicone spray to prevent rust
I used to use chain lubes because it was what I was brought up to do. But after watching a video of yours ages ago, FortNine's video on the subject and cracking the shits with the amount of cleaning I was doing after every ride. I made the switch to a light spray of WD-40. Absolute game changer and haven't looked back.
Great to hear, Derek. Same here, I was forever trying to clean all that crap off my bikes and eventually realised I didn't need to go through all that....
I've tried all the lubes in my decades of riding. Sticky, 90wt, motor oil, chain wax. Now I just use wd40 or silicon spray after gently washing my chain. I think the key is to just preserve the life and integrity of the o-rings. The chain lasts longer for me this way. Heck, the sticky lubes were actually decreasing the life of my chains. I'm assuming the grit was being turned into a grinding paste.
I use Tri-Flow with Teflon. Three drops per pin, one drip for each O-Ring and one for the roller. Keeps rust away and my chains/ sprockets almost never wear out, same with my road bicycle and Mtn Bike. I know it works because the chains don't stretch, ever!
Lolo
Tri Flow is good stuff.
I like triflow since it is very light but removes dirt with a simple wipe. Lubing the chain probably isn't necessary, but cleaning it is imperative. If you don't clean the chain, you are weating out sprockets faster too.
I quit lubing the chains on my dirt bikes and adventure bikes after your last vid on this topic... haven't had enough hours/miles yet to make any conclusion but one thing has been nice - not being hassled to lube my chain between rides while out camping or periodically on long adv trips! Totally agree with not power washing and preventing rust though, I just use a hose and grunge brush to clean them then WD40 to prevent rust.
It does make long rides more relaxing, Matt! Having said that, we did an eight day adv ride when it was very wet so we did hit the chains with a mini can of WD40 at the end of each day... just to prevent rust.
I always clean and lube as part of my aftercare following a ride on both my enduro and adventure bike, although recently moved from a road lube for my Honda Africa Twin to a offroad PTFE lube - im not sure if it makes much difference other than helping me protect the surface of the chain & sprockets and assist with cleaning the mud and grime off of it - that just helps me out after the ride.
I use chain saw bar oil with anti-fling formula. I apply a light coat of oil with a toothbrush every 500km's. I know it is not about lubrication, but to prevent corrosion in the o-ring area.
My chain looks clean and I use bike-detergent like muc-off to clean it, then hose it down with the garden hose in low pressure.
Forget lube, think anti-corrosion
Great video. You just saved me months of research. A little wd40/Supertech lube for anti-rust, nothing more.
To prevent rust, i use Lanotec - based on lanolin from sheeps wool. It dries, does not attract dust, environmentally friendly and prevents rust. Buy it from Bunnings (Australia).
Insteresting, Andrew... I didn't know that. So I looked it up.
Lanolin (from Latin lāna 'wool', and oleum 'oil'), also called wool yolk, wool wax, or wool grease, is a wax secreted by the sebaceous glands of wool-bearing animals. Lanolin used by humans comes from domestic sheep breeds that are raised specifically for their wool. Historically, many pharmacopoeias have referred to lanolin as wool fat (adeps lanae); however, as lanolin lacks glycerides (glycerol esters), it is not a true fat. Lanolin primarily consists of sterol esters instead. Lanolin's waterproofing property aids sheep in shedding water from their coats. Certain breeds of sheep produce large amounts of lanolin.
Lanolin's role in nature is to protect wool and skin from climate and the environment; it also plays a role in skin (integumental) hygiene. Lanolin and its derivatives are used in the protection, treatment and beautification of human skin
@@crosstrainingenduro such a great product for rust prevention, we use it in salt water environment to prevent oxidisation of electrical and comms connections military ships. Cheapest form of spray on maintenance you’ll ever find.
Didn't you post this before ... ?
I stopped lubing my KTM 500 chain about 2 years ago with no issues. I haven't cleaned it either.
Posted an ADV version on the ADV channel....
Im 59 and have ridden bikes since I was 9 . I use oring, xring chains the last 20 years , don't know if lube helps but i always put some on after i washed the bike after a ride . And never before the sandpits, dunes etc..
Yep, used engine oil on the XR650Rs. Keeps the chain quiet if nothing else. When we do break the chain after some unknown kms, we find they are still wet with oil or grease. Spray lubes are 100% crap for us in the dust.
Same here. I do use chain wax, but only after every wash to prevent rust and never otherwise. I’ve already figured I’d switch to wd40 but haven’t ran out of the chain wax yet
Hi I clean chain off with chain brush and wd40, sometimes I rinse off the wd40 and put dry chain lube on from my sport bike but I don’t use Off road chain lube as it’s worse then leaving the chain unlubed
WD-40, I use on every moving part and some the don't move . If I know it's a mud run I spray WD-40 under the fenders, skid plates and use Pam cooking spray on mud exposed exhaust parts. Chain wax always seemed like a gimmick to me.
Fortnine actually recommends Gear oil. Which is also what Honda recommends you put on your chain. I'm assuming other manufacturers recommend same.
Always making sure chain is clean and I use Castrol gear oil75w90 every 500km and yes making sure no rust. WD forks fine but it will dry your seals very quickly. Thats why in Europe we're using gear oil(doesn't attract any dirt and it's just preventing maintenance as you said you will have to change chain anyway)
Got some simple green after watching that FortNine video, but now I realize it's water based which could be a problem with rust? I was using maxima chain cleaner before, but WD40 works fine and should damage the O rings less. Was using maxima multi purpose penetrant lube and chain wax too. Might use 10W-40 engine oil since it's around the same viscosity as 75W-90 gear oil.
I only apply chain lube after washing the bike to prevent surface rust and to keep the seals from drying out
I experience the same as you.
Chain Lube doesn't "improve preformance" it just keeps the chain from rusting in my experience. I only use o ring and x ring chains, also i only use it AFTER washing to prevent rust while storing between rides
in my old racing days i used to clean my chain in unleaded by soaking it for a few hours and brushing it with a stiff brush then id hang to dry then id soak the whole thing in molten wax and then hang to dry. These days I just use a chain brush when cleaning my bike with warm soapy water and give a light misting with wd40 or similar if i can be bothered. That includes a lot of beach work.
I reckon the warm soapy water is better... I suspect the issue with cleaning in unleaded is that if some o-rings are starting to wear it might let enough in to dissolve the grease. Whereas water is less likely to get in, and it wouldn't dissolve the grease. I don't have any proof for this. But I remember years ago I'd clean my chains with petrol and eventually stopped when I thought about this.
@@crosstrainingenduro haha I couldn't afford O ring chains back then!
Yamaha synthetic clear spray on chain lube is by far the best thing I've ever used. I simply spin the back wheel while grabbing the chain tightly with a rag and gloved hand to remove loose grit. Then spray the chain generously along both edges while spinning the wheel till coated. After the majority of the solvents have evaporated I repeat the wipe down with a rag thing. In my experience any heavy type lubes just attract more dirt and grit. I've tried just about everything over the years and this clear synthetic stuff is the best.
A buddy has a can, we compared and can't tell the difference between the Yamaha stuff and the Maxima stuff. Likely a rebrand in one direction or the other. I like it too.
@@adaycj Oh, most definitely made by "somebody" but not Yamaha. Keeping the x-rings clean and soft is gonna make a difference for some dirt bikers. But if your doing all out hardcore enduro riding in wicked mud or dry dusty sandy stuff, it's gonna be negligible as to any real advantage for durability?
thats exactly what i do but with crc2-26 (i get it at a good price ;) ).. more so to keep the chain plates from surface rust than anything else
I rarely maintain my KTM 350 chain (clean/lube), so I am actually on your side.
OTOH. I own a BMW 650 Dakar for 240,000 km. I use scottsoiler since day 1. I used to hurt the small hose offroad (until I relocated it), and no doubt, without it, the chains held 12,000, and with it more than 30,000. Not sure if I should have left it on in the dirt (mostly, dust). I did.
BTW, I use automatic transmission fluid, according to the recommendation.
Back in days of old we bought 3 brand new xr 400s 2 of them lubed the chain every ride and mine didn’t get anything and it lasted longer than the lubed ones but I did wash it with hose to get grit off after every ride
i keep my old used engine oil and fill a force feed oil can, use after washing the bike before it goes in the garage
I agree. Wash off chain, dry off excess water, apply WD-40. Been doing this for many many years on o ring chains and they last forever.
Every chain have had the rollers start to come off. Have been using lube and cleaning after every ride.
I ride a Husqvarna 701 as an adventure bike. I lube the chain but not often, I probably go 3,000 miles between lubes. I have 10,000 miles on the chain now with no problems. Let’s see if I can get another 10,000 miles.
I use very expensive gearbox oil in tranny just few hours and when I took it out I use it for chain lube. Cheap and works!
Thanks to getting to the point and then explaining why, thumbs up!
Agree. I lubricate it after a wet ride or washing, just to prevent rust.😊
Chain lube might be more expensive but I've found that a can lasts a really long time . . . I've kept an FZ1 chain running for 20 years with no proper cleaning but with occasional sprays of motorcycle-specific lube (even after the chain has kinked after long rides in the rain).
I use WD-40 after any water contact (so after I'm done washing the bike or if it rains while riding) and usually use chain wax to keep it from rusting during prolonged storage. I live in Florida so WD-40 only lasts so long before the humidity gets to it. But I agree that lube doesn't change the wear on the chain and sprocket from normal use.
Chain lube can get past the chain seals just like oil gets past sealed bearings in gearboxes. Wheel and linkage bearings will last 500+ hours if you spray chain lube on the seals, even in the mud here in NZ.
I give mine a squirt every ride, best if it has a couple days to soak. Swing arm, lower shock, brake peddle, wheels, pegs and chain.
Do you have any evidence for chain lube getting past chain seals though? All indications are the seals prevent this until they wear out sufficiently... Many have argued that solvents get past seals and destroy the internal grease but there's no evidence for this.
@@crosstrainingenduro Only that once there worn out and I break the link to remove the chain it's full of black gloop the same as my wheel and swingarm bearings have.
WD40 after a good wash and before a long ride (ie when the bike is still clean). Mostly just to keep the rust off as we live in the tropics (Thailand) so it’s more about stopping rust than actual lube. Love the channel by the way
Thailand! Are you up north riding around Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai?
@@crosstrainingenduro Am in Hua Hin, about 3 hours south of Bangkok. Some great trails around and a great bunch of blokes to ride with, much like your mates I think
i think this is a case where we can learn from the chainsaw industry. those chains see a lot more particulates than any motorbike chan and they call for a gloppy gear oil type stuff. but thain again the drives for a chainsaw are a lot harder than motorcycle sprockets. and they don't rely wear.
Bar lube on a chainsaw has to do with the cutting edge going through the wood not the chain rubbing against the running gear so what they use for chainsaws isn't really applicable for motorbikes
@@tcmx712 , Correct it's primarily for lubing the bar, to fight thermal stretch on the chain, which happens in the end anyway, and taking load off the engine as much as possible.
I clean my chain every oil change with wd40 and a small wire brush and then wipe it down and lightly coat it with motul Offroad chainlube. Not nessesary with a oring chain, but keeps it spinning effortlessly and been doing it for 15+ years on multiple bikes and never had a broken or kinked chain
Wire brushes destroy the orings. Use a soft brush to remove debris.
I don't lube o-ring chains, just wipedowns with WD40 if I see buildup starting on them. This includes my roadrace machines like a an R6, and my street bikes. My 150SX has a roller chain from the factory, I've likely not lubed it enough in it's first 12hrs of life 'cause, used to o-ring chains so it's getting a proper sealed chain this winter to match the rest of the garage.
After washing, just use a toothbrush to coat with gear oil.
99% street rider here...80/90W gear oil. I carry it in a small 3 oz paint jar with a brush cap (like rubber cement comes in). Brush it on, and when you think you've wiped enough of the excess off, wipe it some more. I probably would not oil it immediately prior to going off road. Switched from spray lube to the gear oil and don't plan on going back.
Zero chain lube or wd40 and 215hrs on my original chain, and I’m pretty rough on things. Just don’t blast it with the pressure washer.
I've been using "Dupont Teflon Chain Saver" from the big box hardware store for a couple years on the EXCF. Not that messy but it still does attract dirt and leaves a continual dirt scum on the sprocket & hub. Just got a new chain & both sprockets to put on so I think I'll try out the WD40 and see how it goes.
I would be afraid of phthalates affecting my health if I used that.
I use 70w gear oil as recommended by chain manufacturer. After washing, I clean the chain with a chain brush, then coat with WD40 or equal then store bike. Before each ride, I apply a thin coat of gear oil. It makes a mess of the surrounding area, but the only benefit is momentary lubrication and the gear oil repels water for a period. I have 149 hrs. on the stock chain and rear sprocket with many more hrs. left, and I replaced the front sprocket around 95 hrs. TX 300i
310 hours and 13000 km with just WD40 every 300-500 km to control rust, just replaced the sprockets and chain, the front sprocket was showing too much wear.
Some very popular offroad spray lube manual says: apply at o rings only to prolong their lifespan hence chain life span. I think sheer age plays here a big role, as many who didnt noticed a change in life span after stoped lubing just happen to wear and tear chain completely before rubber aging begins matter.
I did look into this, trying to find out exactly what o-rings are made of, and whether any particular products might extend their lifespan... but without any luck.
@@crosstrainingenduro yes, but part where manufacturer directly says this "lube" not for lubing lube - somewhat show this actual lubing need from other side
Agreed, rust prevention is the primary goal. Anything else just leads to nasty buildup. You might find this interesting but apparently the horsepower loss with o-ring versus non-oring change is minimal once they are hot. Back to back dyno tests show this. At least with road racing applications.
For road bikes it's waste of money, for dirt bikes is wasting of money and waste of chain as dirt glue to chain causing friction.
I havent lube my chain with chain lube for years. I run the bike in 1st gear with the rear wheel of the ground and hose the chain near the front sprocket. After that, I run it in top gear with the wheel of the ground and that spins the water out of the links. Spray with wd40 or inox and thats it. The wd40 gets into the rollers, which is the part that wears. All my mates do this as well and we have doubled our chain and sprocket life.
I use the Maxima clear wax stuff. Does any parts last longer? No way. It does go on clear, and may "lube the o-rings" if that is a thing. Or maybe not because it dries up and leaves clear coating. One benefit I can see. If I apply it after I wash the bike the chain doesn't rust. WD seems to dry up for me and in the places that it doesn't it attracts fine dust. A can is about $16USD and my current can is 5 years old and almost empty. WD is cheaper, but I have to use more and clean up a bit more. I also generally hate WD for almost anything, so my bias says I should give Maxima and their vendors their share of the $15 in profit every 5 years or so. Maxima does claim their chain wax is "proudly made in the USA" which is also a plus for me (so is WD), although I have no idea if they just mix up drums of stuff from overseas.
I dont use chain lube as such. But a few squirts of Nulon Extreme anti sieze lubricant. Basically shuts up drivetrain noise & it jamming up/freezing
I’m 37 and my dad told me that about 20 year ago. And never had any problems with it. I change it when the manual says and when I sell my bikes guys are surprised how clean is everything around the chain.
I can still remember the mess on my early bikes, Paula... because I thought lube was vital. 😂 Trying to clean all those spokes.
I was riding about 4 months ago and ran into a guy on a ranger. I hadn't seen one and he was running a carbon belt. He said it was in development and asked me not to take pictures. But he said that rocks can destroy the teeth on the belt, so the hub had a guard that doesn't allow anything bigger than a grain of sand to get between the belt. He said he'd been riding the same belt for a year and had done absolutely nothing to it maintenance wise. He was telling me how he thought it'd change the sport
Interesting... I wonder how easily the guard could be broken though if you dropped the bike against rocks. And it would have to be 100% waterproof if riding through muddy water?
@@crosstrainingenduro
He told me that it has a groove in it that washes the hub whenever you cross water and cleaned the belt. And it had a long track on the bottom that was mostly enclosed with some kind of tension pulley
I clean the dirt and muck off the chain and then grab whatever spray can of lube is handy.
Same experience here - no lube for a few years on dual-sport off road and ADV mixed off and off road. All my "science" (log all maintenance and compare chain/sprocket R&R intervals) shows no difference. I save the equivalent of $100 of chain/sprocket set which almost pays for a chain/sprocket set (if you shop around). Zero maintenance and no more messy cleanup now. I live in CA so we rarely see mud. If I lived in mud or salt water areas I'd use $0.25 worth of wd-40 after a ride. Thanks for the vid and the insistence on science and not "my friend on the internets said" anecdotal "evidence".
It's been very interesting to see everyone's comments too, Scott. Almost all seem to support the argument...
I hate the cast-off that most chain lubes leaves behind. Both with my enduro bike with an o-ring chain or my MX bike with a standard chain, I use chain lube sparingly. Unless you buy boutique brands of drive chains/sprockets, drive chains/sprockets are relatively cheap to replace when damaged and/or worn.
When I started riding I would buy expensive super tacky gooey and generally annoying chain lube. I stopped just from the annoyance of dealing with it. Now when I wash my bikes sometimes I put wd40 on it. Sometimes I forget and it gets a little rusty but it seems to still last like it would otherwise.
Unfortunately I tried all sorts of lubes for decades which just messed up my rear wheels... so much wasted money and effort cleaning up lol.
We tried over many years running harvester chains lubed or dry - hot, dusty, dry conditions with constant relatively low speed. Best life we saw out of chains - those oiled during storage to stop rust and then run dry (18 hours a day over five weeks). Taking the ten(ish) chains off and on each year was a shitty job that I’m glad I don’t have to do anymore - more time for riding.
Exactly the scenario I was thinking of when this video popped up. We lube most of the chains on combines couple three times a year - wish they made o-ring chains in 60H then I wouldn't bother at all.
Very interesting!
Very interesting... I remember a lot of people going down this path 20 years ago, I thought it was odd using WD-40 on a chain... especially with its solvent properties....
After watching this, it's likely a case of the chain will wear out for other reasons, regardless of Lubrication or Not.
Very interesting topic though...
I remember the old non o-ring chains, you could buy this oil bath kit.
You took your chain off, placed in the supplied metal tray with the gease/oil product and low baked it in the oven.
The results were amazing, and would stay like new for many rides.
Do the O-ring or X-Ring manufactures recommend external lubrication?
All the manufacturers recommend lube. But they never quote an science or tests to back it up. And of course if they make lube they recommend their own brand.
@@crosstrainingenduro Yes, I figured as much.
I'm trying to think of an industrial chain application to see what is recommended.
But it's hardly comparing Apple's with Apple's.
I used to lubricate my chain the night before, in hope to just stop it flicking off... but invariably, that's all that happens to 90% of it
Ran the stock chain on my 2016 300xc riding rocks and single track until last week when I dropped my bike off for its first service after 500 hours. Actually other than cleaning the air filter I did nothing to the bike. All the gouges out of it from being thrown onto rock or tumbling down a mountain climb not to mention how many times I boiled the bike over in super technical sections attest to how unkillable a modern 2t is..
500 hours is good for a chain, Roy! I assume you replaced sprockets though before then?
WD40 lover over here, After a good wash on the bike and chain, i blow with compressed air the last mud and water from the chain and lubricate it with WD40 . After a while i wipe the chain dry with a cloth. My D.I.D chain last forever, and this trick on my enduro bike is past on to my son's bikes. It does help to use a top brand O-ring chain though. I swear with D.I.D. and good sprockets. Since 2004.
I've always been a no chain lube kinda guy! Road bike, dirt bike, whatever. I only lube after a wash to prevent corrosion. I don't even clean my chain on my road bike, I actually don't even wash my road bike. Got 40,000kms from the first chain, book says replace at 20,000kms. Dirt bike chain gets hosed when I was the bike, and I spray it with cheap oil.
Chain lube is for non o/x/r-ring chains. Can agree!
It would be great to see proper research done, Heath. But there are hundreds of comments from riders internationally reporting the same findings so I'm pretty sure we are right. I've only had one guy say his chain lasted twice as long with lube. But the unlubed one might have had a defect...
When I first got my bike I was using chain lube but didn't like the look of all the dirt sticking to it and the probable grinding action of it. Then decided to just use a thin smear of engine oil and a light wipe with a rag to remove any excess. Gets bugger all flung off and barely any dirt sticks to it.
Rapeseed-based chainsaw bar lube slightly dribbled on a clean shiny chain, then wiped with a clean rag works well. The resulting easy-clean light after-ride residue gives me an excuse to rub my Moto with a warm soapy sponge too🤪
Warm soapy sponge... are you sure that's legal in your state, Bob? 😂
Always used chain lube but now you got me thinking...
I think in the long run it probably just doesn't matter. All the anecodotal evidence suggests your chain will last about the same time either way. I'd just suggest if you use a lube don't bother buying an expensive one.
I only lube my chain after washing to prevent rust. The lube has usually evaporated before my next ride.
102 hours on my 2020 KTM 300 with original chain and sprockets. I’m sure I’ll make it to 125 hours with them and I’ve never used lube on it. I pressure wash the chain after riding and dry the whole bike with a leaf blower. I have some cans of chain lube on the shelf but don’t even bother putting it on.
Two things make me think lube has a benefit. 1) When my chain became old it made a horrible clunking noise upon starting out. After lubing the chain it was fine or about 100 kms. (2) People using "Scott Oilers". They seem to be getting 60,000 to 80,000 km's from a set of chain and sprockets. Not sure where they ride, but some gravel is included. But, the cost for lubricant is getting to be too high. I am going to be doubling the price of the chain & sprockets by using lube!
It could be worth looking at gear oil to keep the price down... see Fortnine's vid about lube. Their test concluded it worked better than chain lubes. A lot of guys just use their old engine oil which is free, of course.
I don't knwo. I read on my XR manual to keep it lubricated so I do. I clean with kerosene and cloth then lubricate it with SAE 90 when I get back from trails. This way the chain keeps lubricated while the bike is parked inside the garage
I've heard WD40 will get past the orings and displace the lube behind them. I clean with kerosene and use dupont chain wax. The rear wheel definitely spins easier after I lube the chain. I run a sealed chain on both of my bikes a 2003 CR250R and a 2015 CBR600RR. The chain on my street bike gets annoyingly loud if it needs lubed.
I've heard the same thing but when you look at the pressure applied to o-rings nothing should get past them until they actually wear out. And you wouldn't want WD40 getting past in any case, they solvents would just destroy the inner grease.
No lube on my bikes. Keeping the chain clean and properly adjusted is the most important thing in my book. I do use a light bit of some light oil on a rag and coat the chain with it to keep the rust away, especially during storage. And be mindful when pressure washing your bike, seals seats and chains especially.
Good summary, Steve.
I use white lithium grease as it’s cheaper than MC lube but often just use WD40 as we always have it in the garage my DR650 is my daily ride and weekend bush beast.
On my 450's i tend to get 70 hours or so before the sprockets are so hooked that the chain starts jumping. Going to try the no lube thing though.
Is that racing, or pushing the bike pretty hard, Larry? I'm interested as we do almost nothing but slow technical rides and at 150 hours there's almost no apparent sprocket wear...
My chain was not very old but the links were kinking. It seems like the rubber was dry where it meets the outer links. I oiled it and it stopped kinking.
Sounds like a cheap chain? Or you had faulty o-rings? If you can get some oil in past those faulty o-rings then you'll probably still get some life out of the chain....
It’s not actually lube that matters for modern x/o ring chains. It’s the rust prevention. Just be sure to use an anti-rust coating of your choice that won’t react with those x/o rings.
I clean the chain on my fz1 with wd-40 and use a white lithium grease spray to lube it
I ride a lot in riverbed, 'chalk' , any lube just mucks
the chain up, I tried a wax lube for a while, then decided,
to forget about it. I probably have 300+ hours on the
current chain.
I'll agree that a bike used purely for off road isn't going to benefit from lubrication and just cleaning and stopping rust is all that's needed, but for bikes used for dual sports or road only lubrication does help, every chain I've tried without has lasted less miles than lubricated chains, and lubricated chains usuallylast twice as many miles, and the chain is in better condition when it's changed due to worn internal parts. Or just do what my mates does and don't clean anything at all, then when his chain breaks half way through a ride relies on someone else fixing it!
After my ride I wash the bike then use chainsaw bar and chain oil , on the chain just to stop surface rust from starting
I totally agree with you.
Even major motorcycle manufacturers
they don’t recommend at all.