I think it is kind of dumb to say feminism is about being equal. I mean it is a wrong concept. I don't call myself feminist, but yet I think both men and Women should be equal. I would call it: equalism❤️
Anonymous me, of course we want women and men to be equal. We also feel that, historically, women have come out on the short end of the equation. The purpose of the episode was to celebrate what Pope John Paul II called “The Feminine Genius”, especially when contrasted with the large amount of people (even Catholics) who feel that women are not equal to men. By using the term “Equalism” would be to dilute the argument that women are still subjugated in many places of living, work and worship.
Well, EJ, women and men are not “the same,” if that’s what you mean, but they’re still equal. Does being unable to have a baby make men less equal than women? Are women more equal because, compared to men, their average lifespan is longer? Men and women are different in a number of ways, but that’s not how we measure equality. We are all equal as persons no matter what our physical, sexual or individual differences are. We are equal in what makes us human: we reason, we think, we love, we have opinions. And we SHOULD be equal with regard to opportunities such as education, employment and civil rights! As the episode points out, there are as many differences between women themselves as there are between women and men, but all of us are equal. Our differences do not make us “obviously” unequal. On the contrary, they don’t make us unequal at all. In Libby’s words: “It’s together that men and women fully represent who God is.”
Enjoyed the video, but felt the end was glossed over. I am seriously struggling right now with what I see as rampant sexism among my fellow Catholics and the glossing over it within the church/Church. I came from a dual Catholic/Quaker background and within Quakerism there is absolute equality between men and women (at least in the branch I was raised in). I was baptized Catholic but confirmed as an adult, and the amount of sexism has been shocking. I didn't think it was so bad before my Confirmation, and loved the recognition of women in the early Church among other things about Catholicism.But the more I read and listen to the more glaring the sexism becomes. I wonder sometimes if people who are raised within traditions where there is such a strong distinction between the sexes just don't see it as much as someone coming from a tradition without it. It's very jarring and lately I've been wondering if I will be able to continue on because of it. In the meantime, your video was appreciated.
Hi DRM, thank you for your comment, we are sorry that you feel that we “glossed over” the end of the video. Could you please be more specific? Where do you see sexism among your fellow Catholics and how are we glossing over it? We would love to present our side of the story, but we want to reserve any comment until we are sure about which points you are taking issue.
@@CatholicCentralVideos Hello - With all due respect, I felt that the end of the video reasserted that women will never be priests and then gave about 3 seconds to the ways that women have some form of power within the Church before abruptly ending the video. Many Catholic women do not feel like they have a real voice in the Church, especially at the higher levels. Even the Vatican has acknowledged this at different times and in different ways. Regarding the sexism I see among Catholics, read the comments under any article about the discussion of the possibility of women deacons. Not even priests - deacons. Such an incredible amount of patronizing and condescension - mainly from men, but also from some women. They can't even accept a study and dialogue about it. Or really, read the comments under any article about women feeling dismissed, devalued, or otherwise marginalized in the church. One could say, "Well of course you should never read the comment section!" But it is still a reflection of the attitudes among Catholics. Observe any conversation about the maleness of God - in spite of what the Catechism says, there is inevitably the contingent that shows up to say God "prefers" maleness and the pronoun "he" because Jesus was male and called God "Father" (therefore God has "revealed that He prefers males/a male pronoun/is male..." as if God is so contained or cares a whit about human language...we can't even describe the magnitude of God without using metaphors and parables). Or that males are superior because Adam came before Eve. Even a popular social media priest that I won't name - he asserted that men and women are of course equal, neither is superior nor inferior, and then came the "but...obviously there is something about masculinity because Jesus was male and we refer to God as the Father." (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the post in front of me.) A popular website that people go to for all things Catholic bends into pretzels to say that men and women are equal, but still concludes that men have minds better suited for decision making and positions of authority. When you can look around you and see that gender is no factor at all when it comes to competency in leadership and decision making. Someone even said that men should never take spiritual guidance from women and that they are not meant to follow the example of or emulate any of the female saints. None of this is to say that men and women are *the same,* but there seem to be among many Catholics a mentality that maleness is superior to femaleness, even as they might talk out of both sides of their mouths about it. Which you would never come across in a conversation among Quakers (so it seems actually bizarre), and which is perplexing given the amazing women who are celebrated throughout Church history. It just seems the Church does not fully understand the degree of sexism among both lay people and religious and/or does not do enough to counter it. I wrote a long response because you two do seem like you think about things and aren't shallow or dismissive. And also because this has been particularly annoying to me recently.
Thank you for your clarity and we understand your feelings, a widely shared frustration over women’s historical absence in the power structures of the Church, with the exceptions you noted in your earlier comment. We did try in the (admittedly quick!) graphic at the end of the episode to show how women are more than warm bodies filling the pews, but have active leadership roles in schools, dioceses, hospitals, charities and so on. But we did not mention the advances of women higher up in the hierarchy which, if we had, might have made our final moments a bit less “glossy.” Last year Pope Francis appointed six women to senior positions on the Vatican Council that oversees finances. This year he named two women to Vatican posts held previously only by men - Promoter of Justice in the Vatican Court of Appeals and Undersecretary of the Synod of Bishops - positions giving women the right to vote in the all-male assemblies for the first time in Church history! Meantime back at the local level, the parish administrator of a Catholic church not far from our studio is a woman, a position vested with meaningful authority in a spiritual home of several thousand families. And we can’t help noting the awesome number of women at Mass involved in ministries, a growing gift by women to Catholic worship as the very faces and voices of liturgical spirituality. This can’t be dismissed as window dressing. These women in ministry are in fact sources of power, the visible power of the presence of Christ, the authoritative witness and expression of the faith of the Church itself. Acknowledging the scope and significance of these developments, Pope Francis recently changed Canon Law in a moto proprio to affirm participation in these ministries by both women and men. Francis has also set up commissions to study the history of women deacons in the Church's early centuries. Scripturally and historically, these woman deacons served a vital role in ministering to women and others, including St. Paul. Pope Francis realizes this and discussions about female deacons are ongoing and far from closed. In the interim it’s vital to bear in mind that no deacon, female or male, or no priest or bishop or cardinal will ever be greater than any layperson serving the Church in whatever capacity. Ordination is a ministry among ministries, a vocation among vocations. As for the current whys of ordination, we feel our episode explains them pretty well but hopefully it also conveys the message that Holy Orders are not some sort of prize. If the horrific abuse scandal has taught us anything, it is that the ordained are just people like the rest of us. Please don’t think we celebrate signs of change in the status of women in the Church to paper over the reality that much remains to be done. We just want to assure you that you are not a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Oh, and (not meaning to go from the sublime to the ridiculous!) we're proud to relate that our staff here at Catholic Central includes women at every level, not only Libby Slater but also including the Show Runner, Susie Duenas (Mary Ashley Burton before her and Laura Zambrana before her) so the whole feel of this program has been shaped by some very talented and intelligent women. Women are also well represented in our writing and post-production staff. And we’re delighted to see that our viewers and commenters are equally divided between male and female! About those negatives in the "comments sections" you mention, there are a lot of places on this earth where the “barefoot and pregnant” mindset persists. We are a global Church and change must happen slowly. We need to lead those who believe women should have no voice out of the dark ages, just as we need to hear the voice of women in industrialized societies who are crying for more representation. As for the comments themselves, we do think it’s important to read them in any published discussion, just as we feel it important to read the comments on our own shows. Among other things it is through the voice of these comments that change can begin, perhaps even in reaction to those who seem to have closed the window on the breezes of “aggiornamento” still blowing our way from the Second Vatican Council. But change will happen, and it is voices like yours that will bring about the changes. We also understand your thoughts about society’s perception of God being male. You have to remember that the Bible was written during a patristic period in world history and, while there were a great number of famous and great women in that period, most of the writing was done in a very male-centric mindset. But the Church teaches that God has no gender, in Genesis we are told that “God created mankind in his image; in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” (Gen 1:27) Notice, it says that he created BOTH of them in his image, so one is not subordinate to the other. As for Jesus being a male, there was no other way in that time and place. It was a patristic society and women had almost no rights whatsoever. Had Jesus been a woman, he could not have done the things he did in his healing day-to-day ministry among the people. We feel the Holy Spirit has moved you to write this reply and do not worry about the length. Obviously, we haven’t worried about it ourselves! It is our hope that you will continue to voice your opinion and realize that maybe you are being called to take a more active role in being the “Sense of the Faithful.”
@@CatholicCentralVideos EXACTLY. I do see changes happening in the Church, albeit slowly,but changes nonetheless. Clearly it seems that your team understands the issues surrounding gender, it's just very discouraging when you see both a large number of lay people and some that are looked to as authorities on Catholicism who promote these misleading and misinformed ideas. I am looking forward to voting and other representation that would more accurately reflect the other half of the church, the other half of the image of God. Thanks for your thoughtful reply, be well.
first off, thank you so much for the video! 6:10 "selected only men to be priests...that doesn't mean that women are lesser than" I have a problem with this. I would agree if there was another position that is reserved for women in the way the priesthood and holy orders is reserved for men, but there isn't. and no, pregnancy isn't an example. while it may look like that's just Christ's choice, it also looks like plain misogyny. i mean is it really a surprise that those same men who thought women were lower than also upheld male exclusive holy orders?
Dear @whereitreallycounts36, the Catholic Church's position on the male-only priesthood is rooted in its interpretation of sacred tradition and Scripture. The argument typically centers around Jesus' selection of male apostles and the Church's understanding of these actions. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus chose only men as his apostles, and the Church follows this example in ordaining only men as priests. However, it's important to note that the Church does not consider women as lesser than men. The Catholic Church recognizes and upholds the dignity and equality of all individuals, regardless of gender. Men and women are seen as equal in their inherent value and worth as human beings. The reservation of the priesthood for men is viewed by the Church as a matter of sacred tradition and not as a reflection of the worth or capabilities of women. The Church emphasizes that both men and women have distinct and complementary roles within the Church and society. While the priesthood may be reserved for men, women are valued and contribute significantly in various other roles within the Church, such as religious education, pastoral care, and leadership in different lay ministries. It's important to approach discussions on this topic with a nuanced understanding of the Catholic Church's teachings, acknowledging its theological framework while also recognizing the perspectives and concerns raised by individuals who may question or disagree with these teachings. Engaging in respectful dialogue can foster understanding and promote empathy between those with differing views on this issue.
Very interesting topic well aproached as always. Just want to warn you for two things to consider for future videos. 1. Just because male saints would describe women as inferior in some ocasions doesnt mean they were sexists. Let me explain. I studied St. Jerome's letters, many of them to women, and you see how he praises them (even among men) and stablish an intimate relationship with women even without being related to him by family or marriege. Also, would you think that St. Augustine actually thought that his mother only came to this world to procreate? These are examples among many. Actions are more defining then words and reality is a little bit more complex than separate quotes. 2. Related to the first topic. Be careful with "continuity" and "rapture" dilema. I know you already are aware of it, and you wisely use the correct notion of "renewal". But with the disposition of this video kinda looks like the Church was wrong until St. John Paul II. 3. Great idea on distinguishing the different waves. Now, I wrotte an essay on Frankfurt School and "discovered" that the foundations of the second wave are pretty anti-social doctrine of the Church, not only on the sexual revolution criticized by St. Paul VI but also in the dissolution of the family. So it would be important to speciffy the kind of feminist a catholic can be. Dont get me wrong. I just love this project and I would be really sad if it fell into the cheap "sex conflict" aproach. We cant deny opression on women throug history (I can tell, being a historian) but "conflict" is not the "lytemotiff" of history. Thank you so much for your work. Special congrats to Libby on this one. And I recently found Kai on "Unplanned" right after discovering "Socrates meets Jesus". Good job on those.
Hi there! Good points, Jose Urbano, to which I would add that it is important to examine the current expression of what I'd call "popular feminism" as an outgrowth of secular humanism with its hands soaked in relativism. Chief example, a woman's supposed "right" to an abortion, where civil liberties are extended to murder but which would deny an unborn person's right to life - this is the primary battle cry of popular feminism, complete with pink vagina hats (including many of the offshoots of feminism mentioned in the video). Another point, regarding the Virgin Mary. She of course is powerful, which you mention, but she is also fully surrendered to God, and that surrender is the hardest thing for human pride to allow (original sin). Popular feminists do not tolerate the concept of surrender to any authority (and that gets mixed into anti-church, anti-establishment, anarchy, etc.). And when we talk about the Blessed Mother (Virgin and Mother) we hit on two feminine roles that popular feminists reject: virgin means you are not in control of your sexuality and/or you don't use your sexuality to control others, and mother means barefoot and pregnant - or simply powerless - within a male dominated household. I'll stop there - it's a broad and complex topic. Thank you for tackling it!
Hi there! Thanks for your detailed comment! It is certainly not our intention to imply that the Church was wrong until JPII...that would leave out some awesome female Doctors of the Church! But JPII WAS the first Pope to speak about feminism. Your first point is also valid, but we were merely pointing out that people that look at some saints' writings out of context, or casually look at the structure of the Church, might draw a conclusion without knowing that the Church has talked about feminism in a positive way.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inward are ravening wolves.” Matthew 7:15. Feminism is from Satan. Look up Fulton sheens stance on it. No you cannot be catholic and a feminist.
Hello Mixipino, please watch our video and let us know exactly what you find unacceptable. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3; 28.
@@CatholicCentralVideos I watched your video before I commented. I ain't one of those people. Feminism is from the devil though. Trying to defend it while claiming to be catholic is a false prophet thing to do, Like I said, look up what Venerable Fulton Sheen has to say about feminism and it will open your eyes.
We are familiar with the views of Bishop Sheen. The Satan you say is at work promoting feminism is also known as The Divider - the Evil One who brings discord and chaos to families, friends, nations, the Church. It is Satan's dearest wish for the Church to splinter into sparring factions. Don't let him convince you that Genesis 1:26-28 is a lie: "So God created mankind in his image, in the image of God he created them: male and female he created them." The opinion of one bishop does not stand for the belief of the Church or its teaching body, the Magisterium. Fulton Sheen was very much a product of his time and, since that time, our understanding of equality has evolved. This is not a bad thing, the Church’s teaching on many things, from the earth being the "center of the universe" to feminism, has evolved. The Catechism of the Church (CCC) is the main source of reference for those "claiming to be Catholic" on this topic or any other. Here is what it says about men and women, which serves as the basis of our episode: “Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. "Being man" or "being woman" is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator. Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity "in the image of God". In their "being-man" and "being-woman", they reflect the Creator's wisdom and goodness. In no way is God in man's image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes.” (CCC 369-70)
@@CatholicCentralVideos Your views seem to have a taste of Docetism. The belief the material world is evil while the spirit is Good. While we are equally loved and valued to God. Men and women are not equal. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Men are not women. Women are not Men. There are different Gender roles. We are very different. Men cannot give birth. Women Can. We even had different punishments for eating the forbidden fruit in Genesis chapter 3. It says throughout the bible that men and women clearly have different roles and authority. Feminism, like Fulton sheen said, convinced women that because they are not like men and because they are submissive and dependent on their husbands that they are somehow oppressed. Feminism liberated women and gave them a right to act like men. The earliest feminists called the institution of marriage a form of slavery. They preach "Strong and INDEPENDENT." When God's plan for women was clearly to be dependent on their husbands. There's many bible verses, the one that comes to the top of my head is Titus 2:4-5. Feminism is obviously a device that divides the family. It convinces women that because they do not have the same roles as the husband they are oppressed and inferior. Feminism has made it to where 2/3 of marriages end in divorce w/ 80% of them initiated by women. 60 million+ abortions since 1973. 72% of inmates in state prisons come from single mother households. So yeah. Feminism divides the family. It's not just Fulton Sheen. He has the rank Venerable so he's not just "one bishop." The way it's going, it looks like he might make it to Saint. The saints do stand for the belief of the Church and the Magisterium.
Please remember that our episode is about Catholic Feminism. We asked you to aim your objections specifically at the episode, not at the socio-political scene at large or at your views of us as Docetists when in fact our entire series of 65 episodes is devoted to our redemption through the physical reality of Christ’s suffering and resurrection. Catholic Feminism is summed up by Pope Saint John Paul II, who called on us “to reject the temptation of imitating models of male domination in order to acknowledge and affirm the true genius of women in every aspect of life and society, and overcome all discrimination, violence and exploitation.” Does this specific statement by JPII offend you? If so, please tell us why. John Paul II also spoke about the “feminine genius,” by which he meant the special way that women interact with the world and uphold the human person, citing their “intuitive receptivity, emotional capacity, generosity and maternity.” Do you find this in contradiction to Genesis or anything else in scripture? Our episode names female saints like St. Joan of Arc who fought as a soldier, St. Catherine of Siena who exercised her emotional capacity to heal and to bring an end to a major schism in the Church, and St. Katharine Drexel who expressed her generosity by giving up a comfortable life and fortune to feed and educate the poor. For us, these women are models of Catholic Feminism, not disciples of Satan. If you disagree, please explain. Then of course there's Mary, who as Libby says is “often portrayed as quiet and submissive, but that ignores how powerful and active she was in the life of Jesus and doesn't do justice to her choice to do God's will.” Mary certainly embodies to perfection those feminine qualities of “intuitive receptivity, emotional capacity, generosity and maternity.” All Catholic Feminists want for women is for them to have the freedom to pursue their unique vocations, their “feminine genius.” But there are obstacles to that freedom - poverty, violence, education, discrimination, sexual harassment, and assault. As Libby points out, fighting for that freedom “is fighting against injustice and oppression especially those that particularly impact women.” St Joan was free to lead an army, Catherine of Sienna was free to be a papal counselor, Katherine Drexel was free to be a non-governmental executive, Mary said Yes to a motherhood that was like no other. When women are free to say Yes, free to pursue their call from God, when their “true genius” is empowered and respected, everyone benefits. Please do not paint Catholic Feminism with a brush so broad that Satan wins by default.
Great catholic information, and I mean catholic in the most catholic sense of the word. Congratulations 👏👏👏 Hope to see more content like this, specially at these times when one can feel a great urge from so many sectors of our religion to distort the real teaching of the Church.
Hi David, we ask our commenters to at least view the episode they comment on, this is not a blog. Our episode is about Catholic Feminism. As we have said elsewhere on this comments board, and as the episode itself presents, what Catholic feminists want for women is for them to have the freedom to respond to God's call and pursue their vocations, just as men are free to do. But there are obstacles to that freedom - poverty, violence, education, discrimination, sexual harassment and assault. As Libby points out, fighting for that freedom in the name of Catholic feminism “is fighting against injustice and oppression especially those that particularly impact women.” In what way is this "not about equality for women?"
Oh contraire, it very much is, however that's just the problem with it. There's a reason the greater society doesn't take the Church seriously anymore and it's because we've bent over backwards to appeal to liberals and modernists, i.e. people who won't even listen to us anyway. Novus Ordo and and Vatican II were a mistake...
@@thekidofsteel1806 Ignorant of the history of feminism and how its founders were inherently anti-Christian. Just look up any quotes by Mary Daly regarding the Church.
The take is always the bishops and priests have the final say but the women do all the work. This isn’t equal authority. As women we humble ourselves to not want to be known yet we contribute in different ways but just as much as a bishop or priest can. The only difference is we get no recognition for anything and we have ZERO say in higher authority. I do not believe women should priests or bishops (women in some circumstances can become cardinals and even a pope) but I believe that mothers and sisters have such wisdom and emotional intelligence and even leadership skills that are just pushed down not due to God’s will but due to the dominance of men in society!!!
Thanks, Sopkri, but we’re wondering if you mistake authority for power. Anyone asked to name five non-pope Catholics would probably go for Mother Teresa, Mother Angelica, Dorothy Day, Flannery O’Connor and any number of Catholic saints. Remember that being part of the priestly hierarchy confers authority but also duties and limitations. Mother Angelica couldn’t have persevered with creating Catholic cable/satellite/internet network EWTN had she been a priest under authority. There are also lots of men who are not priests but who labor “without recognition” in the Church . Thank you for your affirmations about the gifts and talents particular to women, with which we entirely agree!
All of the sexism I have experienced has been against men!! So we talk about gender roles as if that is negative or sexist. Most men cannot become priest even if they want to, (married, not smart enough, other responsibilities, ect…) Following God is about trust and submission. Not about empowerment and who get to be in authority. This is where I think feminist get the whole idea about equality wrong
Hi John Kuhn, thanks for your comment. When we talk about Feminism, we are talking about a historical and sociological issue. While can understand the other side of the coin that you describe, historically, women have almost always been on the receiving end of the equality issue. We feel that our episode tries to emphasize just what you bring up about God and authority. The purpose of this episode is to emphasize that everyone, male and female, should be treated fairly and have the same opportunities regardless of their gender.
Different genders means different roles. We belong to our Creator, not to ourselves. Women should be treated with utmost love and respect, but then again, everybody should be. Love and respect is defined by our Creator.
There are definitely biologically defined roles for men and women, and one can make generalities about different societal or career paths usually followed by men and women at different times in history. But all men and women are still individuals, and there will always be individual variations and choices. Some men may want to be nurses, a role traditionally filled by women, and some women may want to be welders, a role traditionally filled by men. At its best, feminism is about respecting both the traditional and non-traditional choices of women (and, of men).
I love this channel. It honestly makes me love God so much more with every single episode I watch. That being said, you really, REALLY need to get your sound design under control....
Hi Zach, as we replied in your previous comment about our audio; it is broadcast spec and there is nothing wrong with it. Sound design is subjective, just as color and other aspects of any video. You can like it or not like it, that is your choice, but we use people who have worked in the industry for years and we stand by their work.
Do you know where feminism was seeded from? This is the problem with not only the country but the way this country will be folded in on itself. Goodluck.
Hi Nathan David, we think feminism was seeded from our society finally realizing that women, though obviously different, are not subordinate to men. As we have said elsewhere in this episode's comments, this is Scriptural. In Genesis, God creates both man and woman in his image, and the verse goes out of its way to punctuate the phrase “…both of them.” So, if we fail to see women as equals regarding status, then we would say that it was seeded by the Holy Spirit, but we think you are probably referring to something else. As for this country, we are imagining you meant the United States. We think that should this country fold in on itself, it will not be due to feminism but by polarization and the loss of the art of civil discourse.
@@CatholicCentralVideos Paul straight up said that wives should submit to their husbands. The sexes are not equal, nor were they ever meant to be. Yes men and women have equal dignity, but they are not literally equal to each other.
I love St. Hildegard Von Bingen. I was afraid for a long time that I couldn't be a feminist because I'm pro-life and believed that feminism would scare off the devoutly Christian men I want to date. I'm a Catholic feminist.
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I think it is kind of dumb to say feminism is about being equal. I mean it is a wrong concept. I don't call myself feminist, but yet I think both men and Women should be equal.
I would call it: equalism❤️
Anonymous me, of course we want women and men to be equal. We also feel that, historically, women have come out on the short end of the equation. The purpose of the episode was to celebrate what Pope John Paul II called “The Feminine Genius”, especially when contrasted with the large amount of people (even Catholics) who feel that women are not equal to men. By using the term “Equalism” would be to dilute the argument that women are still subjugated in many places of living, work and worship.
@@CatholicCentralVideos 👍🥂
Well, EJ, women and men are not “the same,” if that’s what you mean, but they’re still equal. Does being unable to have a baby make men less equal than women? Are women more equal because, compared to men, their average lifespan is longer? Men and women are different in a number of ways, but that’s not how we measure equality. We are all equal as persons no matter what our physical, sexual or individual differences are. We are equal in what makes us human: we reason, we think, we love, we have opinions. And we SHOULD be equal with regard to opportunities such as education, employment and civil rights! As the episode points out, there are as many differences between women themselves as there are between women and men, but all of us are equal. Our differences do not make us “obviously” unequal. On the contrary, they don’t make us unequal at all. In Libby’s words: “It’s together that men and women fully represent who God is.”
@@CatholicCentralVideosI disagree. Humans are equal in the amount of resources they have. Nothing more nothing less.
You guys, we LOVE your videos! I think we watched them all!
Great, please subscribe to our channel. Once the Covid restrictions are lifted, we will be shooting more content.
Enjoyed the video, but felt the end was glossed over. I am seriously struggling right now with what I see as rampant sexism among my fellow Catholics and the glossing over it within the church/Church. I came from a dual Catholic/Quaker background and within Quakerism there is absolute equality between men and women (at least in the branch I was raised in). I was baptized Catholic but confirmed as an adult, and the amount of sexism has been shocking. I didn't think it was so bad before my Confirmation, and loved the recognition of women in the early Church among other things about Catholicism.But the more I read and listen to the more glaring the sexism becomes. I wonder sometimes if people who are raised within traditions where there is such a strong distinction between the sexes just don't see it as much as someone coming from a tradition without it. It's very jarring and lately I've been wondering if I will be able to continue on because of it. In the meantime, your video was appreciated.
Hi DRM, thank you for your comment, we are sorry that you feel that we “glossed over” the end of the video. Could you please be more specific? Where do you see sexism among your fellow Catholics and how are we glossing over it? We would love to present our side of the story, but we want to reserve any comment until we are sure about which points you are taking issue.
@@CatholicCentralVideos Hello - With all due respect, I felt that the end of the video reasserted that women will never be priests and then gave about 3 seconds to the ways that women have some form of power within the Church before abruptly ending the video. Many Catholic women do not feel like they have a real voice in the Church, especially at the higher levels. Even the Vatican has acknowledged this at different times and in different ways.
Regarding the sexism I see among Catholics, read the comments under any article about the discussion of the possibility of women deacons. Not even priests - deacons. Such an incredible amount of patronizing and condescension - mainly from men, but also from some women. They can't even accept a study and dialogue about it. Or really, read the comments under any article about women feeling dismissed, devalued, or otherwise marginalized in the church. One could say, "Well of course you should never read the comment section!" But it is still a reflection of the attitudes among Catholics.
Observe any conversation about the maleness of God - in spite of what the Catechism says, there is inevitably the contingent that shows up to say God "prefers" maleness and the pronoun "he" because Jesus was male and called God "Father" (therefore God has "revealed that He prefers males/a male pronoun/is male..." as if God is so contained or cares a whit about human language...we can't even describe the magnitude of God without using metaphors and parables). Or that males are superior because Adam came before Eve. Even a popular social media priest that I won't name - he asserted that men and women are of course equal, neither is superior nor inferior, and then came the "but...obviously there is something about masculinity because Jesus was male and we refer to God as the Father." (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the post in front of me.) A popular website that people go to for all things Catholic bends into pretzels to say that men and women are equal, but still concludes that men have minds better suited for decision making and positions of authority. When you can look around you and see that gender is no factor at all when it comes to competency in leadership and decision making. Someone even said that men should never take spiritual guidance from women and that they are not meant to follow the example of or emulate any of the female saints.
None of this is to say that men and women are *the same,* but there seem to be among many Catholics a mentality that maleness is superior to femaleness, even as they might talk out of both sides of their mouths about it. Which you would never come across in a conversation among Quakers (so it seems actually bizarre), and which is perplexing given the amazing women who are celebrated throughout Church history. It just seems the Church does not fully understand the degree of sexism among both lay people and religious and/or does not do enough to counter it.
I wrote a long response because you two do seem like you think about things and aren't shallow or dismissive. And also because this has been particularly annoying to me recently.
Thank you for your clarity and we understand your feelings, a widely shared frustration over women’s historical absence in the power structures of the Church, with the exceptions you noted in your earlier comment. We did try in the (admittedly quick!) graphic at the end of the episode to show how women are more than warm bodies filling the pews, but have active leadership roles in schools, dioceses, hospitals, charities and so on. But we did not mention the advances of women higher up in the hierarchy which, if we had, might have made our final moments a bit less “glossy.” Last year Pope Francis appointed six women to senior positions on the Vatican Council that oversees finances. This year he named two women to Vatican posts held previously only by men - Promoter of Justice in the Vatican Court of Appeals and Undersecretary of the Synod of Bishops - positions giving women the right to vote in the all-male assemblies for the first time in Church history! Meantime back at the local level, the parish administrator of a Catholic church not far from our studio is a woman, a position vested with meaningful authority in a spiritual home of several thousand families. And we can’t help noting the awesome number of women at Mass involved in ministries, a growing gift by women to Catholic worship as the very faces and voices of liturgical spirituality. This can’t be dismissed as window dressing. These women in ministry are in fact sources of power, the visible power of the presence of Christ, the authoritative witness and expression of the faith of the Church itself. Acknowledging the scope and significance of these developments, Pope Francis recently changed Canon Law in a moto proprio to affirm participation in these ministries by both women and men. Francis has also set up commissions to study the history of women deacons in the Church's early centuries. Scripturally and historically, these woman deacons served a vital role in ministering to women and others, including St. Paul. Pope Francis realizes this and discussions about female deacons are ongoing and far from closed. In the interim it’s vital to bear in mind that no deacon, female or male, or no priest or bishop or cardinal will ever be greater than any layperson serving the Church in whatever capacity. Ordination is a ministry among ministries, a vocation among vocations. As for the current whys of ordination, we feel our episode explains them pretty well but hopefully it also conveys the message that Holy Orders are not some sort of prize. If the horrific abuse scandal has taught us anything, it is that the ordained are just people like the rest of us.
Please don’t think we celebrate signs of change in the status of women in the Church to paper over the reality that much remains to be done. We just want to assure you that you are not a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Oh, and (not meaning to go from the sublime to the ridiculous!) we're proud to relate that our staff here at Catholic Central includes women at every level, not only Libby Slater but also including the Show Runner, Susie Duenas (Mary Ashley Burton before her and Laura Zambrana before her) so the whole feel of this program has been shaped by some very talented and intelligent women. Women are also well represented in our writing and post-production staff. And we’re delighted to see that our viewers and commenters are equally divided between male and female!
About those negatives in the "comments sections" you mention, there are a lot of places on this earth where the “barefoot and pregnant” mindset persists. We are a global Church and change must happen slowly. We need to lead those who believe women should have no voice out of the dark ages, just as we need to hear the voice of women in industrialized societies who are crying for more representation. As for the comments themselves, we do think it’s important to read them in any published discussion, just as we feel it important to read the comments on our own shows. Among other things it is through the voice of these comments that change can begin, perhaps even in reaction to those who seem to have closed the window on the breezes of “aggiornamento” still blowing our way from the Second Vatican Council. But change will happen, and it is voices like yours that will bring about the changes.
We also understand your thoughts about society’s perception of God being male. You have to remember that the Bible was written during a patristic period in world history and, while there were a great number of famous and great women in that period, most of the writing was done in a very male-centric mindset. But the Church teaches that God has no gender, in Genesis we are told that “God created mankind in his image; in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” (Gen 1:27) Notice, it says that he created BOTH of them in his image, so one is not subordinate to the other. As for Jesus being a male, there was no other way in that time and place. It was a patristic society and women had almost no rights whatsoever. Had Jesus been a woman, he could not have done the things he did in his healing day-to-day ministry among the people.
We feel the Holy Spirit has moved you to write this reply and do not worry about the length. Obviously, we haven’t worried about it ourselves! It is our hope that you will continue to voice your opinion and realize that maybe you are being called to take a more active role in being the “Sense of the Faithful.”
@@CatholicCentralVideos EXACTLY. I do see changes happening in the Church, albeit slowly,but changes nonetheless. Clearly it seems that your team understands the issues surrounding gender, it's just very discouraging when you see both a large number of lay people and some that are looked to as authorities on Catholicism who promote these misleading and misinformed ideas. I am looking forward to voting and other representation that would more accurately reflect the other half of the church, the other half of the image of God.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, be well.
I am sooo glad for your channel! God's blessings on you!
Thank you, Chris. God bless you too!
Wow! This video is incredible my friends... makes me feel as though I can and do have a place in The Church, and that God wants me there
We are glad you found our video informative. You will always have a place in the Church!
first off, thank you so much for the video!
6:10
"selected only men to be priests...that doesn't mean that women are lesser than"
I have a problem with this. I would agree if there was another position that is reserved for women in the way the priesthood and holy orders is reserved for men, but there isn't. and no, pregnancy isn't an example.
while it may look like that's just Christ's choice, it also looks like plain misogyny. i mean is it really a surprise that those same men who thought women were lower than also upheld male exclusive holy orders?
Dear @whereitreallycounts36, the Catholic Church's position on the male-only priesthood is rooted in its interpretation of sacred tradition and Scripture. The argument typically centers around Jesus' selection of male apostles and the Church's understanding of these actions. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus chose only men as his apostles, and the Church follows this example in ordaining only men as priests.
However, it's important to note that the Church does not consider women as lesser than men. The Catholic Church recognizes and upholds the dignity and equality of all individuals, regardless of gender. Men and women are seen as equal in their inherent value and worth as human beings.
The reservation of the priesthood for men is viewed by the Church as a matter of sacred tradition and not as a reflection of the worth or capabilities of women. The Church emphasizes that both men and women have distinct and complementary roles within the Church and society. While the priesthood may be reserved for men, women are valued and contribute significantly in various other roles within the Church, such as religious education, pastoral care, and leadership in different lay ministries.
It's important to approach discussions on this topic with a nuanced understanding of the Catholic Church's teachings, acknowledging its theological framework while also recognizing the perspectives and concerns raised by individuals who may question or disagree with these teachings. Engaging in respectful dialogue can foster understanding and promote empathy between those with differing views on this issue.
Very interesting topic well aproached as always. Just want to warn you for two things to consider for future videos.
1. Just because male saints would describe women as inferior in some ocasions doesnt mean they were sexists. Let me explain. I studied St. Jerome's letters, many of them to women, and you see how he praises them (even among men) and stablish an intimate relationship with women even without being related to him by family or marriege. Also, would you think that St. Augustine actually thought that his mother only came to this world to procreate? These are examples among many. Actions are more defining then words and reality is a little bit more complex than separate quotes.
2. Related to the first topic. Be careful with "continuity" and "rapture" dilema. I know you already are aware of it, and you wisely use the correct notion of "renewal". But with the disposition of this video kinda looks like the Church was wrong until St. John Paul II.
3. Great idea on distinguishing the different waves. Now, I wrotte an essay on Frankfurt School and "discovered" that the foundations of the second wave are pretty anti-social doctrine of the Church, not only on the sexual revolution criticized by St. Paul VI but also in the dissolution of the family. So it would be important to speciffy the kind of feminist a catholic can be.
Dont get me wrong. I just love this project and I would be really sad if it fell into the cheap "sex conflict" aproach. We cant deny opression on women throug history (I can tell, being a historian) but "conflict" is not the "lytemotiff" of history.
Thank you so much for your work. Special congrats to Libby on this one. And I recently found Kai on "Unplanned" right after discovering "Socrates meets Jesus". Good job on those.
Hi there! Good points, Jose Urbano, to which I would add that it is important to examine the current expression of what I'd call "popular feminism" as an outgrowth of secular humanism with its hands soaked in relativism. Chief example, a woman's supposed "right" to an abortion, where civil liberties are extended to murder but which would deny an unborn person's right to life - this is the primary battle cry of popular feminism, complete with pink vagina hats (including many of the offshoots of feminism mentioned in the video).
Another point, regarding the Virgin Mary. She of course is powerful, which you mention, but she is also fully surrendered to God, and that surrender is the hardest thing for human pride to allow (original sin). Popular feminists do not tolerate the concept of surrender to any authority (and that gets mixed into anti-church, anti-establishment, anarchy, etc.). And when we talk about the Blessed Mother (Virgin and Mother) we hit on two feminine roles that popular feminists reject: virgin means you are not in control of your sexuality and/or you don't use your sexuality to control others, and mother means barefoot and pregnant - or simply powerless - within a male dominated household.
I'll stop there - it's a broad and complex topic. Thank you for tackling it!
Hi there! Thanks for your detailed comment! It is certainly not our intention to imply that the Church was wrong until JPII...that would leave out some awesome female Doctors of the Church! But JPII WAS the first Pope to speak about feminism. Your first point is also valid, but we were merely pointing out that people that look at some saints' writings out of context, or casually look at the structure of the Church, might draw a conclusion without knowing that the Church has talked about feminism in a positive way.
2:50 Could I get some sources please?
The sources are listed under the quotes.
@@CatholicCentralVideos Sorry, I meant where in their writings can I find those quotes.
@@ajbenavidez9454they wrote a lot of you search the quotes it’ll tell you what work.
Oh thankyou this was a life saver for me...I was completely confused on this subject...thanks a lot guys ❤️awesome presentation...good job
That gives us all the feels. Great!
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inward are ravening wolves.” Matthew 7:15.
Feminism is from Satan. Look up Fulton sheens stance on it. No you cannot be catholic and a feminist.
Hello Mixipino, please watch our video and let us know exactly what you find unacceptable. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3; 28.
@@CatholicCentralVideos I watched your video before I commented. I ain't one of those people. Feminism is from the devil though. Trying to defend it while claiming to be catholic is a false prophet thing to do, Like I said, look up what Venerable Fulton Sheen has to say about feminism and it will open your eyes.
We are familiar with the views of Bishop Sheen. The Satan you say is at work promoting feminism is also known as The Divider - the Evil One who brings discord and chaos to families, friends, nations, the Church. It is Satan's dearest wish for the Church to splinter into sparring factions. Don't let him convince you that Genesis 1:26-28 is a lie: "So God created mankind in his image, in the image of God he created them: male and female he created them."
The opinion of one bishop does not stand for the belief of the Church or its teaching body, the Magisterium. Fulton Sheen was very much a product of his time and, since that time, our understanding of equality has evolved. This is not a bad thing, the Church’s teaching on many things, from the earth being the "center of the universe" to feminism, has evolved. The Catechism of the Church (CCC) is the main source of reference for those "claiming to be Catholic" on this topic or any other. Here is what it says about men and women, which serves as the basis of our episode:
“Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. "Being man" or "being woman" is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator. Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity "in the image of God". In their "being-man" and "being-woman", they reflect the Creator's wisdom and goodness. In no way is God in man's image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes.” (CCC 369-70)
@@CatholicCentralVideos Your views seem to have a taste of Docetism. The belief the material world is evil while the spirit is Good. While we are equally loved and valued to God. Men and women are not equal. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Men are not women. Women are not Men. There are different Gender roles. We are very different. Men cannot give birth. Women Can. We even had different punishments for eating the forbidden fruit in Genesis chapter 3. It says throughout the bible that men and women clearly have different roles and authority.
Feminism, like Fulton sheen said, convinced women that because they are not like men and because they are submissive and dependent on their husbands that they are somehow oppressed. Feminism liberated women and gave them a right to act like men.
The earliest feminists called the institution of marriage a form of slavery. They preach "Strong and INDEPENDENT." When God's plan for women was clearly to be dependent on their husbands. There's many bible verses, the one that comes to the top of my head is Titus 2:4-5. Feminism is obviously a device that divides the family. It convinces women that because they do not have the same roles as the husband they are oppressed and inferior. Feminism has made it to where 2/3 of marriages end in divorce w/ 80% of them initiated by women. 60 million+ abortions since 1973. 72% of inmates in state prisons come from single mother households. So yeah. Feminism divides the family.
It's not just Fulton Sheen. He has the rank Venerable so he's not just "one bishop." The way it's going, it looks like he might make it to Saint. The saints do stand for the belief of the Church and the Magisterium.
Please remember that our episode is about Catholic Feminism. We asked you to aim your objections specifically at the episode, not at the socio-political scene at large or at your views of us as Docetists when in fact our entire series of 65 episodes is devoted to our redemption through the physical reality of Christ’s suffering and resurrection.
Catholic Feminism is summed up by Pope Saint John Paul II, who called on us “to reject the temptation of imitating models of male domination in order to acknowledge and affirm the true genius of women in every aspect of life and society, and overcome all discrimination, violence and exploitation.” Does this specific statement by JPII offend you? If so, please tell us why. John Paul II also spoke about the “feminine genius,” by which he meant the special way that women interact with the world and uphold the human person, citing their “intuitive receptivity, emotional capacity, generosity and maternity.” Do you find this in contradiction to Genesis or anything else in scripture? Our episode names female saints like St. Joan of Arc who fought as a soldier, St. Catherine of Siena who exercised her emotional capacity to heal and to bring an end to a major schism in the Church, and St. Katharine Drexel who expressed her generosity by giving up a comfortable life and fortune to feed and educate the poor. For us, these women are models of Catholic Feminism, not disciples of Satan. If you disagree, please explain. Then of course there's Mary, who as Libby says is “often portrayed as quiet and submissive, but that ignores how powerful and active she was in the life of Jesus and doesn't do justice to her choice to do God's will.” Mary certainly embodies to perfection those feminine qualities of “intuitive receptivity, emotional capacity, generosity and maternity.”
All Catholic Feminists want for women is for them to have the freedom to pursue their unique vocations, their “feminine genius.” But there are obstacles to that freedom - poverty, violence, education, discrimination, sexual harassment, and assault. As Libby points out, fighting for that freedom “is fighting against injustice and oppression especially those that particularly impact women.” St Joan was free to lead an army, Catherine of Sienna was free to be a papal counselor, Katherine Drexel was free to be a non-governmental executive, Mary said Yes to a motherhood that was like no other. When women are free to say Yes, free to pursue their call from God, when their “true genius” is empowered and respected, everyone benefits.
Please do not paint Catholic Feminism with a brush so broad that Satan wins by default.
Great catholic information, and I mean catholic in the most catholic sense of the word.
Congratulations 👏👏👏
Hope to see more content like this, specially at these times when one can feel a great urge from so many sectors of our religion to distort the real teaching of the Church.
Thanks! I enjoy your catechesis. Short, direct and lively
Hi Kayode, thank you, we are glad you enjoyed the episode!
Feminism is not about equality for women. Don't be ignorant.
ignorant how? elaborate?
Hi David, we ask our commenters to at least view the episode they comment on, this is not a blog. Our episode is about Catholic Feminism. As we have said elsewhere on this comments board, and as the episode itself presents, what Catholic feminists want for women is for them to have the freedom to respond to God's call and pursue their vocations, just as men are free to do. But there are obstacles to that freedom - poverty, violence, education, discrimination, sexual harassment and assault. As Libby points out, fighting for that freedom in the name of Catholic feminism “is fighting against injustice and oppression especially those that particularly impact women.” In what way is this "not about equality for women?"
Oh contraire, it very much is, however that's just the problem with it. There's a reason the greater society doesn't take the Church seriously anymore and it's because we've bent over backwards to appeal to liberals and modernists, i.e. people who won't even listen to us anyway. Novus Ordo and and Vatican II were a mistake...
@@thekidofsteel1806 Ignorant of the history of feminism and how its founders were inherently anti-Christian. Just look up any quotes by Mary Daly regarding the Church.
@@CatholicCentralVideos "Catholic feminism..." 😂 that's like saying "hot cold" or "dry wet." It's completely oxymoronic
The take is always the bishops and priests have the final say but the women do all the work. This isn’t equal authority. As women we humble ourselves to not want to be known yet we contribute in different ways but just as much as a bishop or priest can. The only difference is we get no recognition for anything and we have ZERO say in higher authority. I do not believe women should priests or bishops (women in some circumstances can become cardinals and even a pope) but I believe that mothers and sisters have such wisdom and emotional intelligence and even leadership skills that are just pushed down not due to God’s will but due to the dominance of men in society!!!
Thanks, Sopkri, but we’re wondering if you mistake authority for power. Anyone asked to name five non-pope Catholics would probably go for Mother Teresa, Mother Angelica, Dorothy Day, Flannery O’Connor and any number of Catholic saints. Remember that being part of the priestly hierarchy confers authority but also duties and limitations. Mother Angelica couldn’t have persevered with creating Catholic cable/satellite/internet network EWTN had she been a priest under authority. There are also lots of men who are not priests but who labor “without recognition” in the Church . Thank you for your affirmations about the gifts and talents particular to women, with which we entirely agree!
Great video 😇♥️
You lot haven't read the very first part of the Bible have you?
@Oliver O'Brienhey we have the same surname!
@Oliver O'Brien but carry on?
Actually, the Bible is more of a library than just one book. Please see our episode on "The Bible."
Love your videos are a mix of informative, straightforward, and funny! May God bless y'all
Thank you Chiara Le!
All of the sexism I have experienced has been against men!! So we talk about gender roles as if that is negative or sexist. Most men cannot become priest even if they want to, (married, not smart enough, other responsibilities, ect…)
Following God is about trust and submission. Not about empowerment and who get to be in authority. This is where I think feminist get the whole idea about equality wrong
Hi John Kuhn, thanks for your comment. When we talk about Feminism, we are talking about a historical and sociological issue. While can understand the other side of the coin that you describe, historically, women have almost always been on the receiving end of the equality issue. We feel that our episode tries to emphasize just what you bring up about God and authority. The purpose of this episode is to emphasize that everyone, male and female, should be treated fairly and have the same opportunities regardless of their gender.
Different genders means different roles. We belong to our Creator, not to ourselves. Women should be treated with utmost love and respect, but then again, everybody should be. Love and respect is defined by our Creator.
There are definitely biologically defined roles for men and women, and one can make generalities about different societal or career paths usually followed by men and women at different times in history. But all men and women are still individuals, and there will always be individual variations and choices. Some men may want to be nurses, a role traditionally filled by women, and some women may want to be welders, a role traditionally filled by men. At its best, feminism is about respecting both the traditional and non-traditional choices of women (and, of men).
@@CatholicCentralVideos no
I love this channel. It honestly makes me love God so much more with every single episode I watch. That being said, you really, REALLY need to get your sound design under control....
Hi Zach, as we replied in your previous comment about our audio; it is broadcast spec and there is nothing wrong with it. Sound design is subjective, just as color and other aspects of any video. You can like it or not like it, that is your choice, but we use people who have worked in the industry for years and we stand by their work.
❤🙂
God bless!
Do you know where feminism was seeded from?
This is the problem with not only the country but the way this country will be folded in on itself. Goodluck.
Hi Nathan David, we think feminism was seeded from our society finally realizing that women, though obviously different, are not subordinate to men. As we have said elsewhere in this episode's comments, this is Scriptural. In Genesis, God creates both man and woman in his image, and the verse goes out of its way to punctuate the phrase “…both of them.” So, if we fail to see women as equals regarding status, then we would say that it was seeded by the Holy Spirit, but we think you are probably referring to something else. As for this country, we are imagining you meant the United States. We think that should this country fold in on itself, it will not be due to feminism but by polarization and the loss of the art of civil discourse.
@@CatholicCentralVideos Paul straight up said that wives should submit to their husbands. The sexes are not equal, nor were they ever meant to be. Yes men and women have equal dignity, but they are not literally equal to each other.
I love St. Hildegard Von Bingen. I was afraid for a long time that I couldn't be a feminist because I'm pro-life and believed that feminism would scare off the devoutly Christian men I want to date. I'm a Catholic feminist.
Hi Anna, we are glad to hear that you were able to reconcile your desire to be a feminist with your faith. Keep fighting the good fight!
We do not need feminism
We address your concerns in our episode.