I Really respect your work since I used to do the same thing on some combat game and know how much effort it takes and you're doing all that for free. I watch all your videos to learn about values about the game and how they synergize with each others. I just want to point out that while mathematically something is better on paper, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're better in game. Im not saying you said anything wrong, Im just think it should be pointed out that it always depends how applicable Math DPS is in a game. The most important factor for DPS wether its on Sword & shields or guns games is always uptime. Uptime determines which weapon will usually win between each other. I will make an easy example which I like to debate a lot why Tamer isn't as good as people believe. While its super high in DPS compared to an MP you have slow mobility. Slow Mobility equals to having a harder time repositioning for weakspots or having to dodge attacks because you can't strafe them. During that dodges and repositionings that DPS can fall down very quickly. While for example Thunder cage you don't have to dodge anything since you can outrange everything by walking and hipfiring. Your DPS uptime is arguably way higher than tamer. Im not claiming the thundercage is better or the tamer is worse. All I want to say that Applicability & Uptime is the biggest factor when converting from math to ingame where targets move. Keep up the good work and the videos, you will end up with 100k subs at this rate soon !
i agree uptime is a big factor in calculating real dps. Also i can use this same argument compare FC and Tamer, when a boss is in stun stage, people using tamer can probably empty a whole mag of 100 clip into weak spots, which TC might have to reload once or twice. Also, it depends on the descsendant, Ajax would be less likely to move due to his shield and dome. lastly, the skill of the player lol, even the handcanon might have a higher dps potential but due to my bad aim, smg, AR and MG are probably better for me lol
@@raymondwang6272 Yea it also depends on descendant, Id say MG is more of a range weapon so if your char has only close range abilities you have to adjust. Im using Viessa and I cant see myself doing better DPS with MG
well warframe is better, but it did have more time to grow so this is promising and since its already 90% warframe copy it might be good if they dont go too wild on the monetization. The Division 2 is also very good but seems most people skipped that.
@@acceleratum I could never get into warframe, idk why but I just couldn’t. Also I guess I take back what I said because Division 1 was my favorite looter shooter ever, next to destiny 1.
love your content, hopefully we get more blackboard action! I love the fact that you explain your math and how you arrived to the conclusions. Please don't stop that!
The thing for SMGs is that between the Python and the TCage the difference in Crit is MASSIVE in favor of the TCage and general rounds have the biggest mod-multipliers on Crit out of all Ammo types. So even with the TCage behind on that spreadsheet, you will probably come VERY close to the Python in terms of Single Target damage due to the MUCH better scaling with Crit Mods (except if you play chars that can use the Pythons special effect) and completely outshine it for farming/AoE content. IF you can hit weakspots consistently, then the x2 modifier of the Python can take that weapon ahead again, but would only make it more useful over the TCage in bosssfights, where you can consistently go after the Weakspots. So i think the sheet is great, but only to compare weapons of the same ammo type with each other, BEFORE to even consider bringing Mods into the game and compare how the Mods for the specific type affects the stats differently. :)
Heck yeah man, I'm also running Nazeistra's Devotion. I've reset it twice now and have an energy booster on it. So far it's been performing really well!
Regardless if i care about the topic or not, watching you makes me feel happy for some reason. the way you explain things and your vocabulary in general is very satisfying. On top of all that the beautiful maths.
I love the DPS table, small suggestion from a fellow min/maxer / Excel-builder: Add 2 extra columns to the DPS output. First being % of shots that actually hit an enemy and adjust them based on weapon type (shotgun/sniper/hand cannon/etc). No one has perfect aim, and not every pellet from the shotgun is going to hit. This column will make your DPS a bit more realistic. For the second column, give a % of the shots that hit, that will hit a weak spot. Bosses/enemies will not always have a weak spot that you can easily aim for. but that doesn't mean we stop shooting. Also, during out spray of bullets, even if we are aiming at a weak spot, not every bullet/pellet is going to land on it. Using these two columns you can get a much more refined DPS output. A 3rd column could even be added where you give unique weapons an average multiplier based on how you believe their unique ability will boost that guns overall damage output. (a final/future suggestion would be to calculate what mods would most boost that weapon ie. weapons with low base crit chance will not benefit from +% crit chance mods as much as they might from reload speed, or accuracy, but I don't know of a great way to do this yet)
I really really appreciate the amount of work and time you put into these videos ... also saves me alot of time trying to figure it out .. thank you good sir !!!!
I've been using the assassins edge and eternal willpower on a back draft blair build for the past few days. I knew there was something to them but the numbers in this game are so cursed I couldn't varify it. Thanks to you and Deckards for your time
Great vid, and thanks to everyone for compiling the data! I would say something to consider is standard engagement ranges for a Colossus fight are actually pretty far which is where I have seen hand cannons suffer as their drop off is pretty early. Another factor is burst DPS, as we frequently want to get as much damage inside the knockdown window as that won't affect the enrage meter so something like a hand cannon here is probably pretty insane.
Soon as I saw the spreadsheet, you earned a sub. Thank you for taking the time to do this for us build techs. Watching this and your defense, skill, and weapon videos. Keep up the good work!
@@HexxuSz Tamer and Cage is not redundant, tamer does crush dmg which does full/bonus dmg to certain bosses. If you go run those crush specific bosses, you'll notice how much faster you are killing those bosses with the Tamer over the Cage regardless if you build your Cage to have 100k+ more dps than the Tamer. IE: You're going to be able to kill the Hanged Man with time left before the first mechanic phase using Tamer over Thundercage.
Your detailed work on the math and these spreadsheets not only for weapons, but for defences and resistances are amazingly useful. You got a sub from me my guy, and I am looking forward to more content like this in the future!
This was amazing, thank you for sharing. And for your next analysis, the reload factor can also be used in a 'perfect scenario' with reload cancels made by grappling mid reload, each weapon has a different timing, but that could impact performance on a min-max build
You mean a chart that filters dmg highest to lowest based category? Or that the fact the chart does not show ultimate weapons dmg calculated by ability 😂
Hellow from RU community.The video about DEF explaining was literally cool. Comment is posted for promotion your video and make your channel grow faster
It seems like the fire rates for the special round weapons weren't added to the sheet correctly. I redid the math with the listed fire rates in the game on the tactical rifles, and Greg's Reversed Fate and The Unwelcomed are two of the best guns in the game. However, I wasn't able to replicate the rate of fire listed in the game... The tactical rifles fell about 15-18% short for me, so they may not be as good as a standard DPS formula would suggest
please take consideration that same mod in different ammo type doesn't give the same value (e.g Concentration priority (general rounds) is + 120% crit damage whereas concentration priority (impact rounds - perforator uses) only gives +36% ) though hand cannon have high base value but the mod value is very disappointing
nice vid overall, you already pointed out some outliers and caveats with ultimate weapon abilities. just wanna point out that pretty much every shotgun reload timers are per shell while the smithereen reloads the full mag so im not sure if thats something being factored into. theres also other things like tamer being able to utilize mental focus well and shotguns having multishot mod to make up for their (weak) weakpoint multipliers.
Hellow from RU community. Comment is posted for promotion your video and make your channel grow faster The video about DEF explaining was literally cool. Thanks a lot for all your work and calculatings.
As someone that just stumbled upon you videos. I'm really glad I did. I appreciate your layout and all the number you incorporate to your videos. As well as the dump truck load of information. (I'm a small kind math guy)
Great work to see, love your content definitely earned a sub. I currently got the Wave of Light cooking rn, I'd recommend talking a closer look at this weapon because if you factored in the buffs that you'd get from it, it may be higher on the list. Also it being a scout rifle means it's much more versatile than a hand cannon.
I am grinding for days now towards the python and was really reliefed that the Python didn't come in your sheet until you started sorting ... now I have to continue my grind
and that's how you make numbers fun , since i started watching your videos i kinda start like doing math even tho i hated that sht from the bottom of mu heart xD turns out you can like stuff you usually don't when you start doin or using them on things you like or love . Thanks for the info really informative and makes me wonder what kind of new weapons we might get later on .
Thanks for doing all that. I love numbers and this makes me happy. One thing someone found out is that there is hidden base weakpoint damage boost of 50%, so crit DPS will not equal Weakpoint DPS even for 1x weakpoint damage guns. (this is not affected by mods, so you have to add 0.5 to your modded weakpoint damage multiplier to get the actual weakpoint damage) This doesn't change much in terms of ranking but could be worth keeping in mind if you wanted to calculate modded DPS.
This DOES change the rankings actually if the weapon weakpoint modifier stacks additively with the base 1.5 multiplier. The difference between 1x and 1.5x is 50% more damage, but the difference between 1.5x and 2x is only 33% more damage. If additive, the entire spreadsheet is incorrect, and unfortunately in favor of the Tamer.
@@Battlecarrier the 50% is from testing in lab, which seems to be a headshot modifier on regular enemies. I'm pretty sure different colossus weakpoints have different damage modifiers on them, but I haven't tested that. I'm assuming they would also be additive like the 50% headshot on regulars. Another thing is that Elemental damage does not care about weakpoint bonus, which really seems to hold handguns back in terms of potential damage.
I always noticed that Eternal Willpower had something in it, saw a lot of people using it, the only issue I have with non-ultimate weapons is that they start empty, Ultimates starts with 2 slots already placed, which reduces the effort needed to finish them.
Hi @ryechew, a big thanks to you and your community for all the helpful info. You may want to recheck all the JSON numbers. Nexon being Nexon, their data seems not up to date with the live server numbers: namely the Secret Garden Fire Rate is 4x what it shows in the JSON (480 in game vs 120 in the data), making its damage output 4x what the spreadsheet made by Deckards shows. When considering the real values, the Secret Garden is ranked above the Tamer in terms of weak point damage.
My Devo is almost maxed out, and let me tell you, this thing slaps. Plus the big -def debuff. At max it is -30% def pen. It doesn't hit as hard as the Perf, but it will make your whole team hit extremely hard. I have both of the snipers as well, but I use the Piercing Light. What I do is land a Devo shot to apply debuff, switch to PL, and land a snipe shot. The highest I hit so far was a 12.5 million crit. And this is without having pushed the sniper up yet. ALSO, the hand cannons just feel so satisfying :)
Gley changes up the calculations so much because every weapons cycle time becomes the same skill duration plus animation time to recast. So you just throw magazine size and reload out the window. Vestigial is going to be hard to beat numerically and even more so with the range and aim making it easy to use.
Something that i found out when playing around with Smithereens, the other ultimate shotgun, is that the unique ability doesn't state what it does correctly, it says when landing all bullets you get 100% critical hit rate, that is not a +100%, that is flat out 100% critical hit rate on all of the pellets/shells, whatever you want to call them, which means if you use it correctly your every shot with it will always be a critical hits and the unique ability giving you 2 more pellets/shells for 1 second at base and it seems to go to 1.8 seconds at max rank, could make it a contender as a damage weapon at the right hands.
I've never had an easier time subscribing to someone. In your video about Defense, you mentioned you were testing every single gun and I figured it'd take you a few days. Nope, here we are. (Also, shoutout to Deckards for compiling that spreadsheet.)
Hi thank you for the videos, they are great! Wingman meta in Apex Legends is in The First Descendant? Things I've noticed while using your sheet: -Tactical rifles are way below the expected rank... does the numbers account for the tactical rifle's burst shot characteristic? Not to mention not all tactical rifles are 3-burst -Beam rifles are also below, which while expected, seems to be tied to the game's clunkiness in handling beam rifles. -Shotguns, while up in the rank if heavy rounds are included, seems to actually suffer more in the fact the game also doesn't like when bullets overkill a target. Like if you shoot a shotgun in the lab clumped together with invincibility off, it will only hit 1 target, and the corpse will "sponge" the other bullets. -Handguns are surprisingly in the middle of ground, despite being closer to "autopistols" which is peculiar, but then again they handle well and have minimal movement speed penalty.
Good thing is that perforator has a different weak dmg type than tamer so it is a good choice to build it (for ppl who think it might be wasted for whatever reason) covering all 3 damage types with your weapons wich also use different ammo is what you want to min max for
I've been sticking to Eternal Willpower as my main AR strictly because it looks like a G-36c. I had NO IDEA it was actually a contender for a meta pick lmao. Thanks for your work, have a decent idea of what a herculean effort this was.
I really appreciate that you give people the information needed to put together their own build rather than just the typical "use this because i said so". Also, shotguns are decent on Ajax because he can stand beside the bosses and smash weak points.
As someone who has been using strictly hand cannons and handguns since the beta release, I can only see this as an absolute win. and yes, they are fantastic as long as you can aim and accurately hit weakpoint with them.
Just to note: The tactical rifle numbers are off. The RoF is per burst - for example the viper's RoF is listed as 102 with 50 mag, meaning it'd take 29! seconds to empty it. Due to it's 5 round burst fire though, I've timed it down to about 7 seconds to empty mag manually.
Been wondering about something similar.. Since i got gregs i've been having some real nasty dmg with it using real fighter or w/e the gold mod is called. It melts bosses who you can hit the weak points on consistently. i have a tamer too ofc. whenever tamer ammo is emptied i bring out gregs
Wow thats a lot of work. Thank you. I was gonna get enduring Legacy because I am an LMG guy. I just reallly like the feel of dakka in the morning but seeing the scout rifle's up there is great too i enjoy them and wasnt sure which one to hang on to. Its funny how the best feeling rare scout rifle is the lowest on the list when modules are used.
I made a similar spreadsheet myself for snipers/hand cannons, with the difference that I have DPS values for a standardized mod set. I came up with very similar findings to you, with a couple of differences: - The afterglow is the single best sniper once you factor in mods, and it isn't even close. Even without factoring in the excellent unique effect it has nearly a 10% DPS increase over second place, and the second-highest ammo efficiency. The rest are fairly comparable once you've included mods. Interestingly, the snipers and hand cannons have comparable DPS modded despite the ammo being a potential concern for snipers. - The perforator, explorer's path, and assassin's edge are interchangeable, with a roughly 2% DPS spread between them. It has a fairly weak shield break on its passive, but loses accuracy from it too, so I'd actually suggest the assassin's edge with high crit rate and crit damage lines if you play solo. The perforator does, however, get a significant edge up if you have Enzo in your team since his Q mod increases base crit. If you plan on trying to min-max the game with a team of 4 then Enzo will always make the cut because of how that mod allows you to spec into crit damage on any weapon and you should aim for the perforator instead of the explorer's path or assassin's edge.
What mods should I use with the Perforator? It already has the highest weak point modifier in the game via hand cannon. Just wondering what would be the best mods to use with it.
Thank you for all the work. its good to know what to invest in. i went for rocket gley its nice... but i all so like to use thunder cage for when i want to see what i do :) im tempted to max out mental focus that is 150% more damage.. and with endless amo you can keep the 150 stack up
I really hope they will improve the individuality of builds in the future. Currently it basically feels like you just focus on the Weapons and the Character doesnt matter too crazy much. And the weapon builds are Also mostly damage up, fire rate up and crit up, there you go. So hoping for more special builds in the future:)
I’ve been putting a lot of resources into my Assassin’s Edge and I don’t have fully maxed mods but it does more dps than snipers. Snipers do a lot more to weak point dmg per bullet but if you hit only weak points on a hand cannon you can melt boss hp. The only downside to using a hand cannon is that you’ll need to rely on a different weapon or skills when overwhelmed by enemies.
Yeah I’m actively working on perforator because I have it and the dps has been so much better than the tamer so far and it fits bunny’s style of play more because it where I got my god roll stars for her. So you’re def onto something. I’ll let you know what it looks like fully min maxed
lmao been using assassins edge since I first got it, instantly recognised its power looking at crit rate let alone it's crit + weakpoint it's insane. Thing has carried me and my brother through the entire game, no catalysts or anything. Hell we didn't even upgrade any mods for a fairly long time. I only just recently used the core enhancer because we're hitting the hard mode now. I honestly argue that it's even better than the perforator by the simple fact that you can get it to over 50% crit rate and ~2.7x crit & weakpoint...with just 3 maxed out mods, granted you need to use a core enhancer to get it to 80 energy - *but no catalysts are needed* . buuuuuut I don't know if the extra stats from reshaping will make enough of a difference. That being said, it's nice not having to use gold reshape tools to get near max extra stats.
I’m shocked to see the Dogma 21 so far down the list, it carried me through a lot of the msq and is still a favorite of mine for single targets. I think the beam rifles may be overlooked because of the raw stats, but having a large magazine size and the fast charge mod give you a lot of uptime with a level 3 beam.
I've been using Assassin's Edge since the drop, building for Weak Point Damage+Crit Damage and it is insane how good it is as single target. Perfect pairing with my Valby for a balance of AoE skills with single target guns. Much love from a former Destiny buildcrafter.
I've been maining a Hand Cannon since day one and I've never looked back. Granted, I do use the Thunder Cage for groups of trash mobs, but for bosses, it's always a Hand Cannon.
Really appreciate the effort to crunch all these numbers for the community. Unfortunately i don't have the ability level to take full advantage of weak point damage😅
while i don't have a perforator i do have an immediate execution and i really enjoy using it so i slapped an energy activator on it ages ago. it reminds me a lot of the fate bringer and that's easily one of my favorite weapons ever. i also like to use the lion of blue mane I'm a firm believer that just because there is a meta does no't mean you need to play around the meta.
Been rocking naz's devotion, for most of the game - not all the way through yet. But this thing destroys most enemies I find in one shot even if it's 10-15 levels below content. If you don't one shot it's passive is great for party play.
Hellow from UA community. Comment is posted for promotion your video and make your channel grow faster ❤ The video about DEF explaining was literally cool. Thanks a lot for all your work and calculatings.
I got python a couple days ago and it’s awesome but I figured it would be amazing, but you literally have to put the right build on it but I’m getting there slowly but surely
Smitherine is fairly good for breaking leg weak points like on the swamp guy. Land all the shots and they crit.. Pairs well with bunny as you can hop over to something and delete it. Also with the melee grapple you can launch yourself into a weak point on a boss and do some massive damage that way. They are viable.
Best guide so far! to improve it even further could you add an extra colum for the type of damage dealt by the weapon please. There's a "rock, paper, system" applied on weapons vs bosses. I have the game in spanish but the type of damage dealt should be something like this: Crush > Pierce > Burst > Crush The purpose is to max out damage dealt against bosses
I also noticed today that ARs of the same level 'tier' have the same rolls for added faction or elemental damage, making those rolls more powerful on the higher fire rate guns of that group
I've been using an Assassin's Edge since early levels. It has another thing going for it that you did not factor for, good status effect chance AND good crit chance/damage. Status effect damage is affected by crits and a burn proc is around the equivalent of putting 6-8 rounds into the enemy before accounting for resistances.
The very first weapon I slapped a reactor on was Assassin's Edge since it had immense attack, crit and weak point stats, coupled with a long time to empty. Big damage and infrequent reloads sounded like a good idea to me at the time and still does. Glad to see my decision had some sense behind it
Great work! I’ve been actually using Neistra hand cannon all day today and it’s amazing! Around lv. 30 right now but I’ll work on maxing it tomorrow and see how crazy I can get it. The headshot multiplier is pretty wild. Even some “elite” types are getting two shot and similar
I farmed for the Wave Of Light a couple day ago. Nice to see it's good on dps. Kinda figured with it's trait. Scout Rifles are my Go to and Wave Of Light seemed really good for the 45 Crit chance on reloading. Only downside is it last a Second. You definitely need to farm for more of them to max the Unique trait. It'll definitely be Amazing if that can last like 5 second when upgraded 🔥
Awesome stuff, would love to see some stuff on Blair in the future. Not seen anyone coming out with guides or builds for him. With what I understand is a consensus of him being weak
I tried assassins edge the first time I got it and I wasn’t disappointed . I knew it was really strong but I didn’t know it’d be above the tamer in terms on dps (note I’m only just reaching the part of the game with monster levels of 50) . Can’t wait to finish up and see what kind of disgusting damage I can do with the gun
I think one thing to consider too is Thunder Cage is super easy to get/farm for compared to others (after 1 3 hour session I have enough mats to make 4)
You know you're an adult when nice looking spreadsheets make you happy.
You know you're an adult when you see nice looking spreadsheets as a toy for kids.
@@agrillhasnoname A spreadsheets pillow would be fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Or just a data person. Doing data analysis and working with csv, made me happy even when I was 20 yo
For sure. I saw this guy break out the chalkboard in another video, and I was like "YES!"
Too bad it can't be sorted without breaking it...
I Really respect your work since I used to do the same thing on some combat game and know how much effort it takes and you're doing all that for free. I watch all your videos to learn about values about the game and how they synergize with each others. I just want to point out that while mathematically something is better on paper, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're better in game. Im not saying you said anything wrong, Im just think it should be pointed out that it always depends how applicable Math DPS is in a game. The most important factor for DPS wether its on Sword & shields or guns games is always uptime. Uptime determines which weapon will usually win between each other. I will make an easy example which I like to debate a lot why Tamer isn't as good as people believe. While its super high in DPS compared to an MP you have slow mobility. Slow Mobility equals to having a harder time repositioning for weakspots or having to dodge attacks because you can't strafe them. During that dodges and repositionings that DPS can fall down very quickly. While for example Thunder cage you don't have to dodge anything since you can outrange everything by walking and hipfiring. Your DPS uptime is arguably way higher than tamer. Im not claiming the thundercage is better or the tamer is worse. All I want to say that Applicability & Uptime is the biggest factor when converting from math to ingame where targets move. Keep up the good work and the videos, you will end up with 100k subs at this rate soon !
i agree uptime is a big factor in calculating real dps. Also i can use this same argument compare FC and Tamer, when a boss is in stun stage, people using tamer can probably empty a whole mag of 100 clip into weak spots, which TC might have to reload once or twice. Also, it depends on the descsendant, Ajax would be less likely to move due to his shield and dome. lastly, the skill of the player lol, even the handcanon might have a higher dps potential but due to my bad aim, smg, AR and MG are probably better for me lol
Oh hey it's one of the monster hunter math guys. Very well said as always, good stuff!
Crazy seeing you here! Your mhw content inspired me on there and I hope you are loving first descendant as much as my other mhw friends are!
Great minds think alike
@@raymondwang6272 Yea it also depends on descendant, Id say MG is more of a range weapon so if your char has only close range abilities you have to adjust. Im using Viessa and I cant see myself doing better DPS with MG
TFD is the first game to get me hooked on a game since the first Destiny, and your videos are making me play WAY more than I want to
I feel the exact same! I just told my friend a couple days ago that I play with, that I haven’t enjoyed a looter shooter like this one since Destiny 1
Same here m8
well warframe is better, but it did have more time to grow so this is promising and since its already 90% warframe copy it might be good if they dont go too wild on the monetization. The Division 2 is also very good but seems most people skipped that.
@@acceleratum I could never get into warframe, idk why but I just couldn’t. Also I guess I take back what I said because Division 1 was my favorite looter shooter ever, next to destiny 1.
Same!!! I am a destiny and warfare vet… now here we are again with TFD and I already have 130 hours on it. Go figure 🫠🕺🏽
love your content, hopefully we get more blackboard action! I love the fact that you explain your math and how you arrived to the conclusions. Please don't stop that!
definately wont ille probabily do the tierlist on it
I can't wait to get my hands on perforator, the moment i saw it i was like "that'll be mine" i love the handcannons
Man, I wish I could sub multiple times. Look forward to these videos. Keep it up.
The thing for SMGs is that between the Python and the TCage the difference in Crit is MASSIVE in favor of the TCage and general rounds have the biggest mod-multipliers on Crit out of all Ammo types. So even with the TCage behind on that spreadsheet, you will probably come VERY close to the Python in terms of Single Target damage due to the MUCH better scaling with Crit Mods (except if you play chars that can use the Pythons special effect) and completely outshine it for farming/AoE content.
IF you can hit weakspots consistently, then the x2 modifier of the Python can take that weapon ahead again, but would only make it more useful over the TCage in bosssfights, where you can consistently go after the Weakspots.
So i think the sheet is great, but only to compare weapons of the same ammo type with each other, BEFORE to even consider bringing Mods into the game and compare how the Mods for the specific type affects the stats differently. :)
i love naeziras, not just for the stats but the defense debuf is really good because everyone can take advantage of that
Heck yeah man, I'm also running Nazeistra's Devotion. I've reset it twice now and have an energy booster on it. So far it's been performing really well!
@AldosAC when you fuse it did it add another -10 defense each time or?
@@freemo28 dunno, is 10% per fusion lvl or another 10% full fusión lvl?
Doesnt it provide a shield to friendlies and take your shield when they get hit by an enemy you shoot?
@@Tzhz you give 10% shield using 80 mp
dude, i subbed, thank you for this spreadsheet, i love spreadsheets and this helps to narrow what weapons to put time in and experiment with
Regardless if i care about the topic or not, watching you makes me feel happy for some reason. the way you explain things and your vocabulary in general is very satisfying. On top of all that the beautiful maths.
that dopamine hit when i start playing a new game and all the math nerds give me the data i crave. i appreciate you guys fr
I love the DPS table, small suggestion from a fellow min/maxer / Excel-builder: Add 2 extra columns to the DPS output. First being % of shots that actually hit an enemy and adjust them based on weapon type (shotgun/sniper/hand cannon/etc). No one has perfect aim, and not every pellet from the shotgun is going to hit. This column will make your DPS a bit more realistic. For the second column, give a % of the shots that hit, that will hit a weak spot. Bosses/enemies will not always have a weak spot that you can easily aim for. but that doesn't mean we stop shooting. Also, during out spray of bullets, even if we are aiming at a weak spot, not every bullet/pellet is going to land on it. Using these two columns you can get a much more refined DPS output. A 3rd column could even be added where you give unique weapons an average multiplier based on how you believe their unique ability will boost that guns overall damage output. (a final/future suggestion would be to calculate what mods would most boost that weapon ie. weapons with low base crit chance will not benefit from +% crit chance mods as much as they might from reload speed, or accuracy, but I don't know of a great way to do this yet)
I really really appreciate the amount of work and time you put into these videos ... also saves me alot of time trying to figure it out .. thank you good sir !!!!
I've been using the assassins edge and eternal willpower on a back draft blair build for the past few days. I knew there was something to them but the numbers in this game are so cursed I couldn't varify it. Thanks to you and Deckards for your time
Great vid, and thanks to everyone for compiling the data!
I would say something to consider is standard engagement ranges for a Colossus fight are actually pretty far which is where I have seen hand cannons suffer as their drop off is pretty early.
Another factor is burst DPS, as we frequently want to get as much damage inside the knockdown window as that won't affect the enrage meter so something like a hand cannon here is probably pretty insane.
What a flawless video. Well done good sir. Thanks for all your hard work.
As this game continues to blow you are also the depth that you are going to not many are willing to do thank you bro 💯
Soon as I saw the spreadsheet, you earned a sub. Thank you for taking the time to do this for us build techs. Watching this and your defense, skill, and weapon videos. Keep up the good work!
Finally, a real data sheet to understand what's best for which setup. I will be running Thunder cage, Assassins edge and Tamer.
tamer and cage is kinda redundant i am runing cage devotion and i will pop sniper for special ammo
@@HexxuSz Tamer and Cage is not redundant, tamer does crush dmg which does full/bonus dmg to certain bosses. If you go run those crush specific bosses, you'll notice how much faster you are killing those bosses with the Tamer over the Cage regardless if you build your Cage to have 100k+ more dps than the Tamer.
IE: You're going to be able to kill the Hanged Man with time left before the first mechanic phase using Tamer over Thundercage.
@@tommy6742 you would need to use two energy activators in general rounds guns that is Hella expensive
Thank you so much for the depth and quality of content put out, loving everything you do!
Your detailed work on the math and these spreadsheets not only for weapons, but for defences and resistances are amazingly useful. You got a sub from me my guy, and I am looking forward to more content like this in the future!
This was amazing, thank you for sharing. And for your next analysis, the reload factor can also be used in a 'perfect scenario' with reload cancels made by grappling mid reload, each weapon has a different timing, but that could impact performance on a min-max build
These videos going over numbers and showing math are fantastic. Great work, man.
You mean a chart that filters dmg highest to lowest based category? Or that the fact the chart does not show ultimate weapons dmg calculated by ability 😂
that Freyna ult ammo tip was something I did not know. Thanks
Im curious to see a DPS number crunch on Jayber with Python, if his turrets do Non-attribute damage and you can get 80% damage reduciton...
This channel is gonna explode man you're making some awesome content here!
Geez man…you are the goat for content on this game. No bull just straight data. Your rock man.
Hellow from RU community.The video about DEF explaining was literally cool. Comment is posted for promotion your video and make your channel grow faster
It seems like the fire rates for the special round weapons weren't added to the sheet correctly. I redid the math with the listed fire rates in the game on the tactical rifles, and Greg's Reversed Fate and The Unwelcomed are two of the best guns in the game. However, I wasn't able to replicate the rate of fire listed in the game... The tactical rifles fell about 15-18% short for me, so they may not be as good as a standard DPS formula would suggest
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. Just in time I have an activator and cata cooking in research thank you very much!
i PLAN TO STill DO A TIER LIST BUT UPGRADING MODS AND LEVELING EACH GUN TO lvl 40 IS UNREASONABLE FOR A HUMAN HAHA. Someone will beat me too it.
No link in the description tho :)
@@Guldfisken90 I fixed it you tube released it earlier then i thought
@@ryechew I'll be here for the characters' builds and tier list. Dont trust anyone but you on giving accurate info on here!
Could you please just give me a sneak peak at what the best purple ammo gun is? 😅
You know there is a way to level up everything fast in an hour right?
please take consideration that same mod in different ammo type doesn't give the same value (e.g Concentration priority (general rounds) is + 120% crit damage whereas concentration priority (impact rounds - perforator uses) only gives +36% ) though hand cannon have high base value but the mod value is very disappointing
nice vid overall, you already pointed out some outliers and caveats with ultimate weapon abilities. just wanna point out that pretty much every shotgun reload timers are per shell while the smithereen reloads the full mag so im not sure if thats something being factored into. theres also other things like tamer being able to utilize mental focus well and shotguns having multishot mod to make up for their (weak) weakpoint multipliers.
Hellow from RU community. Comment is posted for promotion your video and make your channel grow faster The video about DEF explaining was literally cool. Thanks a lot for all your work and calculatings.
its nice and all but where is the recoil and accuracy stat? If you can't stay on target to hit then the dps drops
As someone that just stumbled upon you videos. I'm really glad I did. I appreciate your layout and all the number you incorporate to your videos. As well as the dump truck load of information.
(I'm a small kind math guy)
Holy Damm ive Never Seen someone so smart about a Game, Respekt for your work m8
Great work to see, love your content definitely earned a sub.
I currently got the Wave of Light cooking rn, I'd recommend talking a closer look at this weapon because if you factored in the buffs that you'd get from it, it may be higher on the list. Also it being a scout rifle means it's much more versatile than a hand cannon.
I am grinding for days now towards the python and was really reliefed that the Python didn't come in your sheet until you started sorting ... now I have to continue my grind
and that's how you make numbers fun , since i started watching your videos i kinda start like doing math even tho i hated that sht from the bottom of mu heart xD turns out you can like stuff you usually don't when you start doin or using them on things you like or love .
Thanks for the info really informative and makes me wonder what kind of new weapons we might get later on .
Thanks for doing all that. I love numbers and this makes me happy.
One thing someone found out is that there is hidden base weakpoint damage boost of 50%, so crit DPS will not equal Weakpoint DPS even for 1x weakpoint damage guns. (this is not affected by mods, so you have to add 0.5 to your modded weakpoint damage multiplier to get the actual weakpoint damage)
This doesn't change much in terms of ranking but could be worth keeping in mind if you wanted to calculate modded DPS.
This DOES change the rankings actually if the weapon weakpoint modifier stacks additively with the base 1.5 multiplier. The difference between 1x and 1.5x is 50% more damage, but the difference between 1.5x and 2x is only 33% more damage. If additive, the entire spreadsheet is incorrect, and unfortunately in favor of the Tamer.
@@Battlecarrier the 50% is from testing in lab, which seems to be a headshot modifier on regular enemies. I'm pretty sure different colossus weakpoints have different damage modifiers on them, but I haven't tested that. I'm assuming they would also be additive like the 50% headshot on regulars.
Another thing is that Elemental damage does not care about weakpoint bonus, which really seems to hold handguns back in terms of potential damage.
Having a hard time unlocking python😭i have all the regular materials but the rest been brutal , gj on content
I always noticed that Eternal Willpower had something in it, saw a lot of people using it, the only issue I have with non-ultimate weapons is that they start empty, Ultimates starts with 2 slots already placed, which reduces the effort needed to finish them.
Hi @ryechew, a big thanks to you and your community for all the helpful info. You may want to recheck all the JSON numbers. Nexon being Nexon, their data seems not up to date with the live server numbers: namely the Secret Garden Fire Rate is 4x what it shows in the JSON (480 in game vs 120 in the data), making its damage output 4x what the spreadsheet made by Deckards shows. When considering the real values, the Secret Garden is ranked above the Tamer in terms of weak point damage.
If u see this when u load up to look at ur guns u can click at bottom left u can enable module stats gives u what dps is and what others affect guns
devs said gley is working as intended
My Devo is almost maxed out, and let me tell you, this thing slaps. Plus the big -def debuff. At max it is -30% def pen. It doesn't hit as hard as the Perf, but it will make your whole team hit extremely hard. I have both of the snipers as well, but I use the Piercing Light. What I do is land a Devo shot to apply debuff, switch to PL, and land a snipe shot. The highest I hit so far was a 12.5 million crit. And this is without having pushed the sniper up yet.
ALSO, the hand cannons just feel so satisfying :)
Gley changes up the calculations so much because every weapons cycle time becomes the same skill duration plus animation time to recast. So you just throw magazine size and reload out the window. Vestigial is going to be hard to beat numerically and even more so with the range and aim making it easy to use.
assassins edge was my backup weapon for when i needed extra deeps during most of the story time so i'm not surprised to see it that high on the list
I love content based on math and numbers, keep going and thanks!
Glad you did this I been putting all my hand cannons I thought where decent away
I dismantled everything but the tamer just because of how easy it is to farm guns
I should really keep 1 of each gun
I thought you already did an insane work but deckard is just a madman. Thank you for your hard work
Something that i found out when playing around with Smithereens, the other ultimate shotgun, is that the unique ability doesn't state what it does correctly, it says when landing all bullets you get 100% critical hit rate, that is not a +100%, that is flat out 100% critical hit rate on all of the pellets/shells, whatever you want to call them, which means if you use it correctly your every shot with it will always be a critical hits and the unique ability giving you 2 more pellets/shells for 1 second at base and it seems to go to 1.8 seconds at max rank, could make it a contender as a damage weapon at the right hands.
I've never had an easier time subscribing to someone. In your video about Defense, you mentioned you were testing every single gun and I figured it'd take you a few days. Nope, here we are. (Also, shoutout to Deckards for compiling that spreadsheet.)
Hi thank you for the videos, they are great!
Wingman meta in Apex Legends is in The First Descendant?
Things I've noticed while using your sheet:
-Tactical rifles are way below the expected rank... does the numbers account for the tactical rifle's burst shot characteristic? Not to mention not all tactical rifles are 3-burst
-Beam rifles are also below, which while expected, seems to be tied to the game's clunkiness in handling beam rifles.
-Shotguns, while up in the rank if heavy rounds are included, seems to actually suffer more in the fact the game also doesn't like when bullets overkill a target. Like if you shoot a shotgun in the lab clumped together with invincibility off, it will only hit 1 target, and the corpse will "sponge" the other bullets.
-Handguns are surprisingly in the middle of ground, despite being closer to "autopistols" which is peculiar, but then again they handle well and have minimal movement speed penalty.
This is awesome, thanks for the hard word my dude. Appreciate it.
Bro you’re a legend, the amount of work you do to help the TLD community is truly tremendous !! Much appreciated 🙏
Thanks for the video. I actually have a really good rolled Immediate Execution hand cannon and decided to keep it, I am now glad that I did.
Good thing is that perforator has a different weak dmg type than tamer so it is a good choice to build it (for ppl who think it might be wasted for whatever reason) covering all 3 damage types with your weapons wich also use different ammo is what you want to min max for
I've been sticking to Eternal Willpower as my main AR strictly because it looks like a G-36c. I had NO IDEA it was actually a contender for a meta pick lmao. Thanks for your work, have a decent idea of what a herculean effort this was.
True, I love the look of the G36 too
It's all I use and it's definitely a futuristic g36c lol just like the holger 556 in mw3
I liked eternal willpower and tamer from the start, cool to see they are so good in the end lol
I really appreciate that you give people the information needed to put together their own build rather than just the typical "use this because i said so".
Also, shotguns are decent on Ajax because he can stand beside the bosses and smash weak points.
they have mentioned themselves that the infinate ammo build was indeed intended and expected
The level of dedication merits a subscription and a like🕺
As someone who has been using strictly hand cannons and handguns since the beta release, I can only see this as an absolute win. and yes, they are fantastic as long as you can aim and accurately hit weakpoint with them.
Just to note: The tactical rifle numbers are off. The RoF is per burst - for example the viper's RoF is listed as 102 with 50 mag, meaning it'd take 29! seconds to empty it. Due to it's 5 round burst fire though, I've timed it down to about 7 seconds to empty mag manually.
Been wondering about something similar.. Since i got gregs i've been having some real nasty dmg with it using real fighter or w/e the gold mod is called. It melts bosses who you can hit the weak points on consistently. i have a tamer too ofc. whenever tamer ammo is emptied i bring out gregs
Wow thats a lot of work. Thank you. I was gonna get enduring Legacy because I am an LMG guy. I just reallly like the feel of dakka in the morning but seeing the scout rifle's up there is great too i enjoy them and wasnt sure which one to hang on to. Its funny how the best feeling rare scout rifle is the lowest on the list when modules are used.
I made a similar spreadsheet myself for snipers/hand cannons, with the difference that I have DPS values for a standardized mod set. I came up with very similar findings to you, with a couple of differences:
- The afterglow is the single best sniper once you factor in mods, and it isn't even close. Even without factoring in the excellent unique effect it has nearly a 10% DPS increase over second place, and the second-highest ammo efficiency. The rest are fairly comparable once you've included mods. Interestingly, the snipers and hand cannons have comparable DPS modded despite the ammo being a potential concern for snipers.
- The perforator, explorer's path, and assassin's edge are interchangeable, with a roughly 2% DPS spread between them. It has a fairly weak shield break on its passive, but loses accuracy from it too, so I'd actually suggest the assassin's edge with high crit rate and crit damage lines if you play solo. The perforator does, however, get a significant edge up if you have Enzo in your team since his Q mod increases base crit. If you plan on trying to min-max the game with a team of 4 then Enzo will always make the cut because of how that mod allows you to spec into crit damage on any weapon and you should aim for the perforator instead of the explorer's path or assassin's edge.
What mods should I use with the Perforator? It already has the highest weak point modifier in the game via hand cannon. Just wondering what would be the best mods to use with it.
Thank you for all the work. its good to know what to invest in.
i went for rocket gley its nice... but i all so like to use thunder cage for when i want to see what i do :)
im tempted to max out mental focus that is 150% more damage.. and with endless amo you can keep the 150 stack up
I really hope they will improve the individuality of builds in the future.
Currently it basically feels like you just focus on the Weapons and the Character doesnt matter too crazy much.
And the weapon builds are Also mostly damage up, fire rate up and crit up, there you go. So hoping for more special builds in the future:)
I’ve been putting a lot of resources into my Assassin’s Edge and I don’t have fully maxed mods but it does more dps than snipers. Snipers do a lot more to weak point dmg per bullet but if you hit only weak points on a hand cannon you can melt boss hp. The only downside to using a hand cannon is that you’ll need to rely on a different weapon or skills when overwhelmed by enemies.
Yeah I’m actively working on perforator because I have it and the dps has been so much better than the tamer so far and it fits bunny’s style of play more because it where I got my god roll stars for her. So you’re def onto something. I’ll let you know what it looks like fully min maxed
Thanks for this i was already looking at handcannons to have a good secondary and the weakpoint and crit for them seemed very good
lmao been using assassins edge since I first got it, instantly recognised its power looking at crit rate let alone it's crit + weakpoint it's insane.
Thing has carried me and my brother through the entire game, no catalysts or anything. Hell we didn't even upgrade any mods for a fairly long time.
I only just recently used the core enhancer because we're hitting the hard mode now.
I honestly argue that it's even better than the perforator by the simple fact that you can get it to over 50% crit rate and ~2.7x crit & weakpoint...with just 3 maxed out mods, granted you need to use a core enhancer to get it to 80 energy - *but no catalysts are needed* .
buuuuuut I don't know if the extra stats from reshaping will make enough of a difference. That being said, it's nice not having to use gold reshape tools to get near max extra stats.
Those earlier videos weren't perfect, but they were informative. Even if they weren't 100% accurate, they provided some significant understanding.
I’m shocked to see the Dogma 21 so far down the list, it carried me through a lot of the msq and is still a favorite of mine for single targets. I think the beam rifles may be overlooked because of the raw stats, but having a large magazine size and the fast charge mod give you a lot of uptime with a level 3 beam.
I've been using Assassin's Edge since the drop, building for Weak Point Damage+Crit Damage and it is insane how good it is as single target. Perfect pairing with my Valby for a balance of AoE skills with single target guns.
Much love from a former Destiny buildcrafter.
I've been maining a Hand Cannon since day one and I've never looked back. Granted, I do use the Thunder Cage for groups of trash mobs, but for bosses, it's always a Hand Cannon.
Really appreciate the effort to crunch all these numbers for the community. Unfortunately i don't have the ability level to take full advantage of weak point damage😅
Interesting, I just unlocked wave of light and tested it out in a mission, felt nice, this video makes me want to cap it out now
you know it's good info if there's a spreadsheet, amazing video
while i don't have a perforator i do have an immediate execution and i really enjoy using it so i slapped an energy activator on it ages ago. it reminds me a lot of the fate bringer and that's easily one of my favorite weapons ever. i also like to use the lion of blue mane I'm a firm believer that just because there is a meta does no't mean you need to play around the meta.
Incredible ! Thanks for your work !!
Been rocking naz's devotion, for most of the game - not all the way through yet. But this thing destroys most enemies I find in one shot even if it's 10-15 levels below content. If you don't one shot it's passive is great for party play.
Hellow from UA community. Comment is posted for promotion your video and make your channel grow faster ❤ The video about DEF explaining was literally cool. Thanks a lot for all your work and calculatings.
I got python a couple days ago and it’s awesome but I figured it would be amazing, but you literally have to put the right build on it but I’m getting there slowly but surely
Smitherine is fairly good for breaking leg weak points like on the swamp guy. Land all the shots and they crit.. Pairs well with bunny as you can hop over to something and delete it. Also with the melee grapple you can launch yourself into a weak point on a boss and do some massive damage that way. They are viable.
Best guide so far! to improve it even further could you add an extra colum for the type of damage dealt by the weapon please.
There's a "rock, paper, system" applied on weapons vs bosses.
I have the game in spanish but the type of damage dealt should be something like this: Crush > Pierce > Burst > Crush
The purpose is to max out damage dealt against bosses
I also noticed today that ARs of the same level 'tier' have the same rolls for added faction or elemental damage, making those rolls more powerful on the higher fire rate guns of that group
Great video! I love my hand cannons and now I have more incentive to follow this up with more testing. Subbed and thanks again.
I've been using an Assassin's Edge since early levels. It has another thing going for it that you did not factor for, good status effect chance AND good crit chance/damage. Status effect damage is affected by crits and a burn proc is around the equivalent of putting 6-8 rounds into the enemy before accounting for resistances.
Been waiting for this so much!!!!!
The very first weapon I slapped a reactor on was Assassin's Edge since it had immense attack, crit and weak point stats, coupled with a long time to empty. Big damage and infrequent reloads sounded like a good idea to me at the time and still does. Glad to see my decision had some sense behind it
Bro is Blowing up! You deserve it bro!
next step is a website builder with every mods and calculator!, thank for the hard work
It already exists
Great work! I’ve been actually using Neistra hand cannon all day today and it’s amazing! Around lv. 30 right now but I’ll work on maxing it tomorrow and see how crazy I can get it. The headshot multiplier is pretty wild. Even some “elite” types are getting two shot and similar
I farmed for the Wave Of Light a couple day ago. Nice to see it's good on dps. Kinda figured with it's trait.
Scout Rifles are my Go to and Wave Of Light seemed really good for the 45 Crit chance on reloading. Only downside is it last a Second. You definitely need to farm for more of them to max the Unique trait. It'll definitely be Amazing if that can last like 5 second when upgraded 🔥
That's cool I've been running a tamer and assasins edge for a while good to know my gut had it right
Awesome stuff, would love to see some stuff on Blair in the future. Not seen anyone coming out with guides or builds for him. With what I understand is a consensus of him being weak
I tried assassins edge the first time I got it and I wasn’t disappointed . I knew it was really strong but I didn’t know it’d be above the tamer in terms on dps (note I’m only just reaching the part of the game with monster levels of 50) . Can’t wait to finish up and see what kind of disgusting damage I can do with the gun
I think one thing to consider too is Thunder Cage is super easy to get/farm for compared to others (after 1 3 hour session I have enough mats to make 4)