Pilot FLEW RIGHT OVER AIRLINE AIRPLANE | "You just gave me a Heart Attack!"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2024
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Traffic in sight, but I'm not gonna maintain visual separation.
"technically, we maintained separation because we never touched..."
"Traffic in sight. Altering course to close distance."
Target too close for missiles, switching to guns.
Target too slow for guns, suggest we get out and walk.
"Roger, we'll maintain illusion of separation".
Claims he extended downwind and yet is somehow nearly over final. Was over a plane on final that he was supposed to follow and thought he turned too wide on base. Bro is flying the pattern with his eyes closed
Haha.. Downwind is parallel to the runway, so shouldn't be crossing runway centerline on the downwind. Base to wide is weird too. If anything it's base too tight? Looks like he flew straight towards the Skywest to follow him, not realizing skywest was on final and coming towards him?
Yeah, my first thought when I heard him say the base was too wide was, "WHAT BASE???" He didn't appear to even attempt to start a "base turn" or whatever you want to call it until Tower called him. That sigh from Tower when SKW3806 told him where the Cessna was gave me a chuckle.
@@criminy_Exactly, I too was like, “What base?” There’s no base until the first aircraft passes. It sounds like he doesn’t know what he did wrong.
He had no idea where he was. lol
Controller reaching for the glue after that.
It looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.
IT'S A TWISTER! IT'S A TWISTER!
HE’S COMING RIGHT AT US!!
I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all counting on you.
You guys are GREAT! :D :D :D :D
I could listen to this controller all day.
Buttery.
The Bob Ross of air traffic
I felt like I was listening to him all day while he was reading off a long instruction during the time when he had a Cessna and a regional jet at same altitude on a collision course on the final approach path. Seems like that would have been a good time to have stopped reading off that long instruction and instead deconflict the two planes headed straight towards each other at the same altitude with one of them being a jet.
@vbscript2 the is the correct answer. I appreciate the "late night radio DJ" delivery, "helicopter, standby" would have been a better call once the alarm in the background started ringing. Don't get me wrong, 33Q blew it here, but I think we should encourage controllers to drop the phrase "what are you doing" - no good insight has ever followed from a pilot in response to this question.
@@ColorNerdChrishe was focused on the helicopter. He didn’t realize what was happening until the helicopter started reading back. Give him a break. This was all a matter of seconds.
You can hear the conflict alert go off in the tower when he's talking to that heli...
Yeah, I heard that and wondered why he continued giving the heli instructions instead of dealing with that immediately....
Seems to be jabbering with the helicopter while he's got conflict alerts chiming...
Right, why didn't he handle that alert? Just let them continue. This is not all on the clueless pilot.
@@cageordieof course it’s all on the pilot. When a pilot excepts a visual separation, such an alarm might go off, because the pilot can come a bit closer than the computers like.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Well, even if it's VFR, you would think the controller might glance at the scope to check on the head on closure.... Pilot's mistake, but the #1 job in the tower is safe separation. Wow. I know the west coast is relaxed, but if they collided, would he be like, "Bummer, man..."?
LOVE this controller’s voice and calm demeanor 👍🏼
Yup chill AF, like the navigator from Dr. Strangelove
th-cam.com/video/cGjbaxVu5IE/w-d-xo.html
I would listen to an audiobook read by this ATC
This is one of my local AWESOME controllers…
You just gave me a heart attack - dumbledore said calmy (litterly)
trashly?
@@cwg73160 No, sorry. Just realised i spelled it wrong, english is not my main language lol. But: litteraly, if thats right?
@@bluewolfgames3146 It is literally not ) 'litera' is a Latin word for a letter (a symbol of an alphabet), so you were kind of right with these two 't's )
@@artemkras Ah okay, thanks for the answrt
I can't even listen to this controller anymore
"extend downwind" requires you to first... be on a downwind. It doesn't look like he ever entered the left pattern and just kept flying straight when he heard "extend".
Somehow I think 33Q was confused as to where he actually was in relation to the pattern and where the controller wanted him to go. Probably a classic example of “I heard what you said and said I’d follow it, but I don’t actually understand the instructions.”
He extended his base too wide. His words.
@@UpAndReady Fake it until you make it, am I right or am I right? Of course I'm right. CONFIDENCE.
He mistook it for "extended (Runway-centerline)"!
The chuckle in the Skywest's voice reading back the landing clearance says a lot. Reminds me of a fellow parent when they know the other parent (controller in this situation) is dealing with A Lot. They were aware there were pilots in the area doing pattern work, so likely less experienced, and they made sure they stayed clear of conflict. Poor controller got a heart attack but the pilots probably saw it coming and gave the other plane the room to safely make a mistake
The resigned "roger" from the controller, heh
Has a heart attack and the next minute goes right back to work...amazing.
MF pilot here. Thanks for posting this… we were cracking up about it and was wondering if it was going to make it on here 😂
I hear that in MFR they are trading out 100LL for 100CBD!
@@bryonnevis2187 not sure what cbd is…
Yikes, that was probably the worst downwind I’ve ever seen someone do.
Yeah, I could not decide whether it was upwind , sidewind, or crosswind
Someone needs a 709 check ride.
Can’t go under it…
Can’t go through it…
Oh no! We've got to go through it!
(or, well, over it in this case)
Wow, I was able to understand that controller. He spins at 33 1/3 RPM. Usually they all run on 45 or as high as 78.
There are a lot of young folks here that, unfortunately, will not understand that reference. 😅
@@jimrossi4787 We old farts must have some way of identifying one another that the pantsoakers can't mimic, don't we?
@@jimrossi4787 I know... I did it on purpose... 😁😁👍👍
No need for your high horses, young people still use vinyl records
@OntarioTrafficMan no high horse here. Just making an observation. You are always welcome at the old folks home. 😂
That's a pretty clear cut pilot deviation imo.
Yeah, where's the phone number to call?
@@donaldthomas7070The number is 420-(redacted)
@@donaldthomas7070phone numbers are only given if they think it can be handled without having to file reports. Not getting a number can mean they will just report the incident.
He probably got his "talking to" after he finished his pattern work.
Years ago, I took off and had a plane coming directly at me. I took evasive action, and told the tower there was a plane coming straight in for the runway I took off from. They said there was a plane joining downwind... I said thats the tightest circuit I've seen. About the same as this guys...
I think he understood "maintain virtual separation". If so, he nailed it...
I mean, they didn't collide, so technically he kept them separated, I guess.
@@jonathankleinow2073 Still don't get how this Embraer's TCAS wasn't screaming RAs
"Maintain visual sep" assumes you have good eyesight, not staring into the sun or haze. So I guess a Blue Angel/Thunderbird formation type separation even if it is measured in feet is maintaining visual separation.
@@sanantonio855 Yeah, wondering that too, surprised the Embraer didn't break off the approach to the left.
@@giantpickle Yeah and the Embraer's pilot was surprisingly calm too! I would've expected him to get really mad
Surprised by the lack of alarm in the voice of the Skywest pilot, and how the cessna wasn't(?) even given a number to call!
"Number to call" isn't that important. Filing a nice report is.
In Europe we don't give any numbers to call - it's a waste of time. We just write a report, so someone else can take the situation for evaluation.
Seems like SKW watched the Cessna all the way through his fuck-up, and knew they could easily avoid if needed.
I know some towers will wait till the aircraft in question is on the ground, as not to add to their workload. After all, this guy is doing pattern work and having trouble staying in the pattern, why add to what they're doing. The ATC has their tail number, so it's not like this guy's getting away with anything.
@@jackielinde7568looks like 33Q is based there with the rogue valley flying club. I bet tower can call them and ask who was flying the airplane at this time.
@@sirgryzli6284that’s a stupid thing to say how a phone call is a waste of time.
Phone calls usually ends up with no reports being filed. They discuss what happened and if the controllers feel the answer is satisfactory or if they feel the pilot understood his mistake and won’t be a repeat offender, they will let it go.
In Europe, they should do the same. I had an incident when a German controller filed a report on us, without discussing anything with us. He was wrong, I was right, but it took 6 months of filing reports and counter reports to finally come to that conclusion. Talk about wasting time. Had he talked to us about it by phone, it would’ve taken 2 minutes.
The controller reminds me of the default ATC voice in Flight Simulator 2004 😊
They usually say that controllers talk too fast but you could hear the alarm going off in the background and he’s still slowly finishing his instruction. I was waiting for the possible pilot deviation call but I guess the controller was happy with their response/action.
Took a long time for the controller to respond to the traffic alert that was heard in the background while talking to heli traffic.
I'm not a controller but I imagine that he needed to deal with the direction to the heli, and took the extra second to process what was going on. Him cutting off the heli was probably the maximum he could delay interjecting to find out wtf that Cessna was doing.
This is the most undermanned tower I know. Those men are absolute grinders.
as an Air Traffic Controller for 31 years.... you got to expect GA to do stuff like this. Somehow we slept at night.
I enjoyed how "MFR" kept popping up under N3833Q's ident. I kept thinking, "that's about right".
(And yes, I know it's Medford's IATA code.)
It's Samuel Jackson's favorite airport
Marginally Focused Rehack.
My guess is the cessna pilot was not correcting for crosswind. Remember, especially in a small GA plane, your heading can be very different from your ground track.
Dang, how do you mess up a traffic pattern that bad? I would like to point out that at 2:35 when N3833Q was entering another downwind (after the incident), their course would've brought them over the approach to the runway, similar to what happened the first time and caused the close call. 33Q then makes a right 360, probably instructed by tower, so we don't see if they really came close to doing the same thing again. I think this is worth pointing out as it seems like the pilot is unable to maintain an appropriate course on the downwind, and as another commenter stated, wind could've been a factor. It could also be a lack of situational awareness about their position over the ground, especially if you are extending the downwind and can't see the runway. This is just what I gathered from the video. What do you guys think?
Yes I think he has no situational awareness and needs more training
I think he is looking at the compass and following the heading instead than looking outside and fly PARALLEL to the runway
When tower tells us to extend downwind it usually includes instructions to wait for the tower to call for a base turn, or fall in behind traffic, like in this case. When going behind traffic, I learned to wait until the traffic is 45 degrees past my shoulder to turn base. And in the case of an E175, with me in a C172, I'd probably give him even more separation, because of the wake turbulance.
That Cessna didn’t “be good”
Also why didn’t he get a phone number???
That controller is one cool dude
Interesting pattern work. Is that a paisley?
0:19 "Traffic in sight"
And this, kids, is why we do not lie to the controller about having traffic in sight
All that airspace. Why have traffic that close under ANY circumstances???
You know its serious when the controller uses the words 'heart attack'.
I think the pilot didn't know what "extend downwind" meant. Then to save face and not admit that he didn't know what the instruction meant, claimed he took the base too wide.
I think what might have happened is he took *crosswind* too wide, adjusted heading on his downwind to correct, then never took the correction out when he was told to extend his downwind.
Pilots do that constantly “extend downwind” by default means to them- 20more seconds on the downwind and I’ll call him on base leg.
Maybe it's time we revisit having private pilots doing self-managed pattern work at airports where commercial airlines with passengers on board are trying to takeoff and land. There are plenty of private airfields we can shunt these guys off to to do their pattern work where they won't conflict with aircraft with 100 people on board.
I hope someone from the FAA reads this....
No matter the airport, a mid air collision is always possible. The fact that they are doing the traffic pattern at an airport with airliner planes means the airport is probably not busy at all. Considering this is an airport with Class D airspace, that means it is most certainly not a busy airport like Newark or LAX. Not even close actually. You can go on flightradar24 and see their departures and arrivals (airport code is MFR) and there’s usually only one airliner plane every half hour to every hour. Newark and LAX for example, planes arriving and departing every minute. You forget this is not the norm and events like these rarely ever happen. 99.9% of pilots will never experience anything like this
I flew patterns and did my first solo flight at San Jose International, me in my 150 with a bunch of 737s.
@@brettbuck7362 I have this animated visual in my head of the 737's with their serious face on while they do the work of moving people, and your little plane going "Wheee! I'ma big boy now!"
I do my pattern work at an airport that has no tower and regular Embraer commercial traffic. The commercial jets are a lot faster than me so I give them a respectful margin.
Jeez, this one is bad.
over 2000 feet apart. won't even make a report
@@jamescollier3 you mean 200 ft, the collision alert is going on in the background and for good reason
Almost died on approach to Long Beach because some old man got confused
Continued pattern work?!?!?
🤔
Guess he decided he needed the practice...
@@kaasmeester5903 idk I'd be full of adrenaline after narrowly missing an airliner
Gee I wonder which way the wind was blowing.....
Didn't check METAR, but I'm gonna bet on "Not from 270".
That's what I was thinking.
Sometimes that ATC packs a LOT OF INFORMATION INTO 1 TRANSMISSION, doesn’t make it easy for a busy pilot to give a good read back (and / or retain and mentally process the information).
At my airport with jet traffic, if there is conflict traffic with jets they want us to have visual on the fast movers before they give us clearance to land.
Why didnt this genertate a TCAS alert in the Skywest?
Likely inhibited at that point. Typically around 1000ft RA.
Resolution Advisories would be inhibited, however Traffic Advisory would be issued iirc.
Small planes don't have TCAS.
@@Pants4096That is irrelevant
@@Pants4096The little plane has a mode c and the 175 has TCAS. The 175 if higher would have received an RA.
I extended my downwind yo! Ok, that was PART of the instructions, what about the keep traffic on final in site and take your base after them? I wonder if there was a westerly cross wind?
How did the controller let himself get into a conversation with a helo 8 miles out when this was unfolding on the radar right in front of him? He could have and should have watched the converging blips and done something to separate them, then he wouldn't have had to complain that they'd "just about given him a heart attack." Apparently he figured that he'd told the Cessna what to do, so he didn't have to watch and see whether or not he'd actually complied. Very dangerous attitude!
That guy needs an instructor in the right seat. That is absurdly bad flying.
This is the local trainer plane - which leads me to believe this was his first solo. I’m sure he’s not getting a license anytime soon.
@@Jaserx I looked up the n-number - the plane is privately owned.
whoa, this happened like close to me. First I heard of it.
Should the Tower tell an airplane to follow a SkyWest E175 when there are two of them lined up? To me it looks like that's where the confusion was.
I think you might be right, but that would mean the pilot didn't know what "The Manor" was.
This wouldn't make any sense. The traffic they were following was a plane landing on the same runway. The other Skywest was departing off that runway
@@kngalex Yeah, but turning in front of the E175 also doesn't make sense, so we're left to speculate.
Listening to this tower is like listening to NPR
Probably good they continued pattern work, they could definitely do with practising the pattern more
You know its a VASAviation video when the controller is casually giving instructions and in the background noise the collision alert is going nuts. I am not an ATC yet I would have said standby and tried to avoid collision first. Crazy...
Surprised he didn't get a ☎number to call.
I appreciate that the controller is calm and all that, but he could have told either aircraft to turn while they were still miles apart. Trust but verify. In this case verify that the two aircraft that are flying towards each other don't just keep on flying towards each other. And was that an alert going on in the background while he was giving detailed instructions to the helicopter. Good time to break off and tell the Cessna to take an immediate turn.
Cesna around 20 metres is not as bad as the normal sizes planes being about 25m away 😂
I know little about aviation, so this is a legitimate question/comment. It seemed that the ATC was giving long drawn out instructions, essentially tying up radio traffic or is this better versus the "auctioneers" that go too fast?
This is better as you can understand clearly all of the information that is being said, the guys who 'auctioneer' it can lead to miscommunication as people can't catch all of what they say. But I do understand that those kinds of controllers usually are at the busier airports so need to speak faster to get all of the traffic through. It does lend some credence to 'slow is smooth, and smooth is fast', in my opinion it's better to have slow radio calls but no misunderstandings
You are supposed to speak slow and deliberate.
At least that is the rule on paper.
In practice the government allows too many slots for the number of people manning ATC. So they have too much traffic going and so they speed up their talking.
Which they technically shouldn't.
Maybe it would be best if they didn't, and this leading to enough delays in the traffic flow that both airlines and the government learn that there is a limit any airspace can safely handle. And that most of the time they are already operating above that limit.
Overflying an airliner in a Cessna with 400ft of vertical separation.. bruh
Was this quaalude day for everyone involved? Holy crap. That was the most calm heart attack I ever heard.
Holy moly!
Props to the controller for keeping his cool!
Not the worst out there, but as a retired controller, there are a few things I don’t like about how he handled this
That was definitely a "CLOSE" traffic
I was waiting for the controller to tell the Cessna pilot to write down a phone number for "possible pilot deviation"
You guys like his calm demeanour but I thought controller was a bit slow to speak, especially as talking to the helicopter and you then hear proximity alert going on in background.
Isn't there more responsibility on the TWR seeing/knowing of the closing conflict - even if that's the 172's fault/doing? Is the TWR required to help with separation for the landing SKW?
No phone number is crazy considering lives were put in danger.
I listen to ATC again and it almost sounded like he said, extend your downwind number 2 'East of him at the manor' rather than E175 at the manor?????
Is Rogue Valley-Medford that busy?
Great controller. 172 pilot seemed not to care that he damn near took out another aircraft.
Cessna pilot wasn't paying attention. Probably staring at his iPad...
And, as we learned in a previous video, an iPad is all you need in a busy airspace. 😂
If he was staring at his iPad (with a Sentry puck) at least he’d have seen the near mid-air waiting to happen. Probably texting his wife his estimated time to get home to make sure her boyfriend is out of the house this time.
that ATC could give speech lessons. crystal clear
The downwind isn't the same as the " extended centerline", it is parallel not CONGRUENT!
Glad he did not fly over an airline boat, that would have been scary. Did anyone else hear a conflict alert going off in the tower?
Is Medford tower under the control of NORCAL TRACON Center?
Crazy that he continues flying after that
My guess is that he's a new pilot practicing his pattern work. Needless to say, his pattern work needs more work.
Instead of "mantain visual separation" he got "mantain vertical separation"
That was very close
No number to call? Maybe the FSDO will see this and ramp check the guy.
I've seen the "Cleared for the option" a couple of times. What does it mean? What is "The Option"?
Not a pilot, but from watching pilot videos on TH-cam: it means the option to either stop on the runway or do a "touch and go".
The coolest controller ever 🧊🧊🧊❄️❄️❄️
OH man!
Yikes....
atc exclaiming "what are you doing!?!?" to a disoriented/compromised pilot is going to get someone hurt if it hasn't already;
Any idea if he got a number to call or any sort of consequence for this, cause like, its bad 😬
Was anyone else cringing at the inevitable as his “downwind” was causing him to creep right onto the final? 😬
That pilot , has the acuity to run for president.......
"do you have the E175 in sight?"....silence.... (Worst 3 seconds of this controllers life)
meanwhile the beeping in the background is the red CA annotation due to COLLISION ALERT
I don't think he knew where he was, unless he didn't understand what 'downwind' meant?
Unpopular opinion apparently…
but as a controller, I don’t like the way tower handled a few things in this scenario
How did this guy not get a BRASHER?? Come on people...some really incompetent people in the skies
cessna cutting him off... this past week for me, its been a lot of read backs correctly and then not following the read back. its getting weird.
There’s downwind, and then there’s downwind.
"base too wide"? I think they meant, never turned base, or maybe were on the the downbase? Maybe not a bad pilot, but forgot to account for the winds.
What's this in my back pocket? Oh! It's a number for you to call.
Somebody needs to explain to me how the Cessna and the E75 are flying directly at each other when the Cessna is supposed to be behind the E75 on downwind?
E175 was not on the downwind, he was on the approach. Cessna was (supposed to be) on the downwind(flying opposite the direction of the 175, but offset to the right of the approach path) and then turn base(left) for the approach AFTER passing the 175 and following the 175 in, but what he actually did was he prematurely drifted left on the downwind until he was flying directly opposite the 175 on the approach, putting himself on a collision course with the 175
oh boy that controller has his priorities straight. Continue giving instructions to a friggin' helo 8 miles away while his TRAFFIC COLLISION WARNING horn is going off. By finishing the instruction, he HAD to wait for the read back or the channel would be occupied. That was a clown move that wasted 18 seconds and caused the planes paths to intersect before he could communicate effectively with the incident aircraft.
Probably was a stiff crosswind aloft and didn't pay attention and got blow over final. Surprised there was no phone number.
33Q was not looking out his window!!!
Whoops!! 😮
I don't understand the controller's actions here. Listening with heaphones on, I can hear the collision alert alarms SCREAMING at the controller as he's giving directions to 973MF. He continues giving these instructions at a very slow pace instead of ordering 973MF to stand by and immediately issuing instructions to SKW3806 and 33Q. That controller nearly allowed a mid air to occur with only 200 ft of vertical separation. Unacceptable.
Don't they have to have the TCAS system active? I don't know about the laws there, but I don't find reasonable that you can fly in this kind of airspace without TCAS.
Small private planes usually do not have TCAS. It's a very expensive system. Only passenger planes with more than 10 seats are required to have it.
@@Pants4096 But even if they don't have the full system, they should have transponders and the TCAS on the airliner should alert the pilots, right?
The commercial jet would have TCAS, but there is a minimum height it stops working. I think it's 1,000 AGL (Above Ground Level). My guess is that with takeoffs and landings, you might get false positives. But above that minimum height, the Skywest plane should be getting an RA (Resolution Authority), so long as the Cessna has at least a Mode C transponder.
The Cessna, on the other hand, most likely will not have a TCAS system. This all depends on the age of the aircraft, what equipment it had installed at the time of the initial sale, and any changes made after by their owners. And seeing the last 150 rolled off the assembly line in 1977, the only Cessnas to get a TCAS systems would all be retrofits by their owners. (I think some of the new avionics, like the Garmen devices, can come with TCAS.) But it's more likely than not to not have one.
@@jackielinde7568 Thank you!