Packleader should have me running around, followed by a whole herd of animals, like a Demonology lock is followed by an army of imps. Back in the day, in Warcraft 3's founding of Durotar adventure, Rexxar could have his bear and boars, and his base unit, the Beastmaster could have hawk and stampede. Summoning a pet for 6 seconds during Coordinated Assault does not copy this fantasy.
Yeah not only that it should allow you to use 2 onehanded weapons aswell. Not only bc rexxar. A frost dk, monk etc has gotten that treatment. And hunter back in the day where they could equip melee weapons besides your bow already could equip any type of weapon
if he is pumping your groups' logs must not look too good. He is clearly showing the best logged survival hunter look at the log he showed for that kill, the 100 parsed survival hunter did less damage than a 31 parse boomkin and a 28 parse devoker. He barely outdamage a 6 parsed Havoc demon hunter. To just chalk that down to skill issue is pure ignorance as now you are trying to argue feeling vs facts.
@MarcelianOnline the biggest problem imo is the incredibly poor haste scaling. Optimized surv hunters are at like 3% haste. I sit at 14% and my rotation feels amazing. Extremely fun. And it might get even better for 11.0.5
@@ratthew2843oh man you’re so incredibly intelligent and practically a saint for taking the time to educate this pleb. 🥴 Man wow players are tiresome these days.
The only gripes with the spec is Sentinal owl still not latching to targets and that sometimes I think a accidentally pressed Feign Death because a mob in a Delve looked at me from across the room and I died. Otherwise it is EXCELLENT. Don't even care that it's not pumping. The KC weaving is elite.
surv is extremly combo dependent not pure prio list play style and also suffers from unreliable hero talent, but its far far from worst, i would argue a good survival can do so much better then other hunters
I've been a surv main since SL and I can say surv hasn't felt as strong as it is right now, but you're right its largely the reworked hunter tree, and probably every other dps spec gaining so much more by now. Secondary stat priority changing has really messed up the kit, its very hard to maintain bomb use or stack mongoose bite with less than 10% haste, even through haste dropped to 3rd or 4th most important secondary stat. I just wish we could use two 1hand weapons (swords, axes) so we could generate more auto melees to generate more wildfire bomb reduction, not unlike how frost dk will go two 1handed to get more razor ice(?) stacks, would really help surv in the face of losing haste.
I switched from long-time MM play to Survival because Surv doesn’t sacrifice much single target to do AOE, but most of all because of the innate 6% damage reduction from their mastery. They are also the only hunter spec that can take advantage of the passive Ferocity pet leech (MM is still at a damage loss with a pet even after the Lone Wolf changes and BM only can leech from it’s own damage; too much of their damage is from their pet). The cherry on top is their interrupt is a much shorter CD than MM and BM. The main thing that put me off of it for a long time was the fact that they’re melee, but I just needed to adjust. I grabbed Varruth’s Guillotine from Shadowlands paired with a black crow pet or Skarr (lava cat with the red eyes), and give my blood elf the undead skin tone with red eyes… I end up looking like an unidentifiable vampire class lol. You can even get a Tanaan Jungle Marsh Gulper and have a critter-sized frog pet to confuse people further.
Surv is my main alt, love playing it! I wish we had gotten the frost DK treatment to help our community perception, but survival hunter will rise one day soon! I'm sure of it. Thanks for your common sense coverage of the best hunter spec in the game Mr. Flame, I plan on continuing to enjoy my Rexxar LARP ;)
The survival hero talents are so boring its actually insane... why do i have a talent tree centering around a dumb owl instead of like explosives expert or something? With the new design basing heavily around explosives and since marksman and survival use explosive shot it would have made sense. When im more excited for my alts hero talents(evoker) than my main theres a big issue. They could have also done a trapper hero talent tree or a serpent sting/venom based tree. Literally anything but an owl....
I kind of like the owl, seeing as how we're "one with nature" or whatever. But i also totally agree, an explosives expert or something would be so much cooler, and make more sense!
I agree, they definitely could have replaced the whole sentinel owl idea with explosives expert. It could have made explosive shot crazy strong and other neat explosive visuals/ effects for max dopamines
My favorit duel was as an orc bm/survival hunter. My opponent was a human warrior and we were 1v1 in the flag room of Warsong gulch. It came down to me popping my racial blood fury & my pets enraged (its been years). Won in melee against him. I'll never forget thst duel.
They should redesign Sentinel to function more like Starfall and not triggered by a long cd spell like bomb. Packleader should let us have special/more pets. Tip of the Spear is a good idea but doesn't fit well with the current rotation.
As clunky Legion season 1 and until they introduced Raptor Strike Survival was with the Mongoose Bite spam it was still the most fun i ever had. I absolutely hate the Kill Command skill forced upon us, don't get me started on Raptor Strike...
That rotation clip is exactly how i feel when i play survival. Coming from Windwalker monk, survival feels a little wonky at times due to all of which you mentioned. At least it’s not as wonky as Enhancement shaman tho 😅
Still topping meters on my SV hunter, not quite as good as my MM but pretty close. I miss some of the things they took away but it only required small adjustments. When i run with other SV hunters and look at their Detail's they are almost always not playing right. Lot's of skill issues out there.
I wish surv was more like meele dual wield like rangers in DnD with a touch of witchers (like actualy cool bombs, weapon oil/venom etc) and maybe some cool nature spells.
I think survival suffers from shitty hero talents where you will suffer from lunar storm mobs being moved away from it and pack master is seriously undertuned(also completely negates the rework)
Personally. I think arms warrior is the worst feeling melee. I mean 90% of their abilities feel bad to press and have for nearly 10 years cleave? Fucking hell they gutted that attack. sweeping strikes? Sucks to press. Whirlwind? On arms? Slam? Just slam me off a bridge.
Surv is my main, right now its a 10x smoother rotation and way more damage than arms (until this next patch comes around guts its rotation/dps for literally 0 reason) Yeah arms is the worst by far for M+. lost the mortal strike resets and hero talents getting nerfed. Feels like absolute dogshit. Everyone swapped to fury since they gave it BS (lol) and it was instantly nerfed into the obscurity. When your only utility is damage and you remove the damage warrior dps becomes worse than anything else on the roster, besides feral of course Meanwhile ret pal strictly gets buffed whilst already being one of the best and easiest melees in the game for 2 seasons in a row. really makes you think 🤔 "
@@jimjong7684 Massive over exaggeration, arms is not that far behind survival hunter. Its about a 6% difference between the two in M+, that gap can easily be closed by skill. Single target they are neck and neck. And where are you getting this info that they are gutting survival. The butchery change is great as it will apply a bleed as well as reducing wildfire bomb by 3 seconds per target. Freeing up the charges and making it one big hasted cooldown means buffed fury of the eagle can be ran. You are just typing so much misinformation that a 2 second google search will clear up.
@@ratthew2843 they are making the auto cast for grenadier (current highest or second highest damage in key especially now haste isnt run) require a GCD input every single proc = massive DPS loss for PVE. open your eyes next time Do you even play the spec? or arms for that matter?? go do a 10 on arms right now tell us all how great feels to play please (hard mode no lying)
@@ratthew2843 While you are at it tell me how a 15 sec CD 50% increase and an unknown bleed damage is better than 3 charges with consistent bomb resets in AoE rotation (3x50% = 150%) Whilst also entirely REPLACING the only talent that gives you your 3 target raptor strike cleave (& 3x serpent sting proc)? Good luck! You're clearly a delving andy talking about a spec he hasn't played for more than 5 mins
I just wish they made Surv Hunter a tank spec. Would be awesome. Have your pet take a percentage of the damage you would take instead and your job would to be to help keep your pet alive.
They could have a leech mechanic where the more damage you do the more it heals your pet and the more damage your pet can take for you. Seems like it woould be a fun tank gameplay loop
This is interesting. I went back to check this info out about Survival Hunter "Depths" on the Brood fight. It is now saying it is a 32% parse. But this spec is not common on this fight. Which tells me there isnt enough info for survival hunters. Even right now survival hunter rankings have changed making "Depths" #4.
I am more like a raider but Survi still feels the most fun choice. I absolutely obliterates the damage if its ST and sustain. Nobody can even close to me in my guild. Meanwhile in m+ I have lack of AOE dmg.
Survival is great, I have always played my survival hunter since the rework. However right now I not a big fan of the tip of the spear mechanic. It makes the rotation feel awkward to me, like I don't want to waste em but I need to dump some focus to not overcap and I need to dump my kill commands to not overcap that either. I still like to play it, but I preferred when it had less to work around. It just doesn't feel smooth to me personally
Pack leader needs something that can compare to the Sentinel talent (don’t look back). At 627 ilvl I have 6.6mil hp. The shield from (don’t look back) is a 660k shield, up every ten seconds. That is huge in M+. Cant believe this is not one of the top things mentioned. In SL and DF, SV hunter survivability was horrible.
Been very fun, didn't think I would like it as much as MM but it's been my go to. Tip adds a decent amount of min maxing to be had. I think butchery can feel a little clunky but onjce you understand it's not bad. Super fun and overhated spec. Also have had no issues keeping up in damage so idk. Shit pumps.
For the past 5 years or so when a spec got a big spec rework they got the opportunity to shine during a live season of WoW. SV got their rework but only got to shine for 2 weeks on Beta. If you are looking for popularity, you need to shine during live at some point. Even if you leave META status, you can keep some fans.
@@handofthegreatcreator -- No it wasn't. It had an overpowered tier set. People used it because it did numbers. It didn't change basically until the War Within Beta. Survival has been the same spec in Shadowlands and after until this time and on one played it. Can you still say it was or wasn't awesome when it was exactly the same spec and people refused to play it? One broken tier set is all the shine SV has had in over 5-6 years.
It’s the coolest melee spec. Using tools, traps, bombs, crossbows and pistols together with your weapon. You feel like a Witcher, frankly. Imho the swashbuckler is pretty close but survival has one of the strongest themes in their identity
I love survival. Though it doesn't feel very "survivable" Personally? I want them to make it a tank hybrid with more dps than tank giving it more self sustain from tank abilities. This is just a personal wish, your mileage may vary.
Will continue to play SV. It's fun and does (very) good dps. Tried MM for some time now but it's not my cup of tea. Especially volley and single target dps 🙈
Loved SV since it's became melee. But nowadays I don't feel it anymore. Still feels a bit weird to play... But it's a overall Hunter thing. The class feels watered. Want to be too much at the same time... fantasy-wise.
Survival’s issues are not its own, but one big problem survival has and always will have is that ... ; why play melee when you could just play at range ? i understand alot of people prefer melee, but when thats the case, most people just gravitate towards other classes. and the data shows it. sure, Survival has flaws like any other spec. but i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with its design. some love it, some hate it. But even with pristine gameplay design i think it will never attract alot of players to it. it will attrack the high level players when the spec is really good and thats pretty much it. i think another problem with playing Survival is that alot of players are super aware that they could just make things simpler and swap to BM. cause it plays like a melee dps, but has the freedom to play at any range with unrestricted movement. i think its time we just accept the fact that it is and will always be be a niche spec, because thats OK.
this is funny i main survival and very rarley lose to other hunter or mages in dps ikt is clunky but if you know what your doing it can pump. it takes soem skill unliek mages and otehr classes tah thave training wheels for dpsi/e easy mode im looking at you mages
Yea 1.8 mil dps on aoe fifht shows how bad we are . I been survival since reqork and pur hero talents blow . They cater to BM and MM. Also tip of the spear is so weird
Was surprised by this video because I'm always doing really good damage in M+ groups and in Heroic raids and parsing high on DPS. Now I'm wishing I had stayed with my Rogue. 🤣
For me is survival & arms warrior love. ❤ and the changes in 11.0.5 makes my love even bigger. I dont need to be the best in dps i need to be the best in fun 😊 i hope packleader will come in 11.1 can understand that dark ranger needs bigger work then packleader 😂
I only play survival, ever since legion. and this is the worst feeling survival so far, and its all explosive shots fault, it sucks to press, not a satisfying ability. butchery is also boring but atleast its snappy
I’m a surv proging mythic brood. The boss damage is great since with only two talent changes I can swing into cleave aoe. The prio damage is great and holds actual decent utility. Unfortunately I’m fighting for melee raid spots and for mm’s spot. But the spec is better than logs determine. Also sitting at 2722 IO. The spec is fun and has a unique role in m+ that brings great new utility.
@@alihorda specifically in Siege, Wake and Grim the 4 second sooth or 10 second 3 target sooth are great for keeping the tanks alive. And so many mechanics are feign death able as well as the 30s self poison cleanse
@@kenlonwells2219 but that is unique to survival hunter? Other classes or specs also have enrage dispell or other cleanse. Other hunter specs have feign deaths. Or I'm missing something? Haven't played survival since shadowlands
@@alihorda not necessarily haha I gotcha, no just that hunters overall have been given way more utility. That being said in the class tree survival has 1-2 extra floater points compared to ranged giving a bit more flexibility. But no it’s all hunters. However surv is better than both at cleaving down boss/prio mobs compared to the other two.
Well yeah it sucks but tbh i just decided to main it for this Season for the first time and i actually enjoy it. So ill stick with it for now. Plus atleast right now in my Keys i atleast can keep up with the meta specs and thats all i need.
For me personally I don’t have a problem with the gameplay I have a problem with the theme. . Personally what I would have done with hunter is Marksmen - nuke range BM - dual wield melee hunter+ pet Survival - poisons and combat trap dog spec. - I would even toss in some utility for them like “antidote shot” = you shoot s friendly target with an antidote to cute pan/ talent can also dispel curses. Something like this to carve out a survival theme
You're not alone, MoP was when I first started playing and Surv was my first raiding toon. I've always thought BM should be the Melee spec and Surv being a DoT (Poisons and Bleeds) spec at range. So BM would be a Melee Physical spec (splitting damage with your pet, the synergy that Pack Leader is *trying* to capture); MM should be a Phys/Direct damage, ranged and petless, leaving Surv as a DoT spec. We can dream...
Easy as this. The playstyle is shit. It will always be shit until they really overhaul it. Imagine mounting your own pet and charging into battle dual wielding hatchets to strike your foe AND still use a bow/gun/crossbow as long ranged. cool vfx to cater these ideas. Rexxar is the best example of what we wish survival hunters to be. It's a shame they always play around the same ideas since legion that nobody asked for.
I dunno man, I was outDPSing a Frost mage on my Survival Hunter doing an M0 pretty consistently. 🤷♂️ I don't play for big numbers, I play for personally enjoyment and theme.
It's very difficult to use metrics since the best players would never use survival. I agree with most people here though, Survival is really fun and well designed. The hero talents really drag it down and, I would even argue, they make survival worse to play. They really, and urgently, need to improve hero talents for Survival. Sentinel is awful to use and Pack Leader is probably the weakest hero talents in the game.
For me, the class fantasy just wasn't executed well... Why do we have bombs as our primary AOE? Why do we not have axe throws that cleave? Thrown weapons mixed into a melee attacks should've been the go to... Unfortunately this spec is all over the place flavor-wise.
If they went back to the Legion iteration, it would be perfect. I know everybody hated it at the time, but I think they just hated it because it was the first expansion that we got melee Hunters at all in. For the first time since Vanilla, I switched mains in Legion-from a Retribution Paladin, to Survival. It was *extremely* fun to play for me, and had a surprisingly flexible but still cohesive rotation if you knew what you were doing and took the time to actually learn how the spec worked. And I agree; the pet feels incredibly awkward and like an afterthought for Survival.
@@Sanguivore I haven’t played survival back then so I can’t comment on that . I would like for survival to be like the ranger from DnD medium armored swift warrior the between of warrior and rogue.
Honestly, I totally agree. I'm not the biggest pet fan at all, sure, but pets feel so much worse in melee than ranged to me. I just want to be a dude stalking my prey with a spear, easy
The Legion rework for Survival has got to be one of the top 5 most moronic things Blizz did. It’s honestly amazing that no matter what they do the spec sucks every single time since the rework
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No, it is the most fun melee for me.
Only melee that feels good to play
It’s like dollar store Outlaw.
It really is a “blast” to play.
@@jpibmgWW monk is amazing too. But yeah, the rest of them feel awful.
WW Monk is a lot of fun too
Packleader should have me running around, followed by a whole herd of animals, like a Demonology lock is followed by an army of imps.
Back in the day, in Warcraft 3's founding of Durotar adventure, Rexxar could have his bear and boars, and his base unit, the Beastmaster could have hawk and stampede.
Summoning a pet for 6 seconds during Coordinated Assault does not copy this fantasy.
Yeah not only that it should allow you to use 2 onehanded weapons aswell. Not only bc rexxar.
A frost dk, monk etc has gotten that treatment. And hunter back in the day where they could equip melee weapons besides your bow already could equip any type of weapon
It should at least give you an extra permanent pet, so survival would have 2 and mb would have 3, and then summon even more with a abilities
Surv does feel clunky but my teams surv hunters pumps anyway so imma chalk it up to skill issue
Hmm, think it will feel clunky regardless of skill when you actively ignore resources :(
if he is pumping your groups' logs must not look too good. He is clearly showing the best logged survival hunter look at the log he showed for that kill, the 100 parsed survival hunter did less damage than a 31 parse boomkin and a 28 parse devoker. He barely outdamage a 6 parsed Havoc demon hunter. To just chalk that down to skill issue is pure ignorance as now you are trying to argue feeling vs facts.
@MarcelianOnline the biggest problem imo is the incredibly poor haste scaling. Optimized surv hunters are at like 3% haste. I sit at 14% and my rotation feels amazing. Extremely fun. And it might get even better for 11.0.5
@@ratthew2843 ain't reading allyat
@@ratthew2843oh man you’re so incredibly intelligent and practically a saint for taking the time to educate this pleb.
🥴
Man wow players are tiresome these days.
Survival is my alt and I absolutely love it - ❤ - Disengaging and then harpooning is just silly
I play as a Nelf Survival and decked out in Nelf themed armor, its total fantasy ranger vibe. Super fun.
The only gripes with the spec is Sentinal owl still not latching to targets and that sometimes I think a accidentally pressed Feign Death because a mob in a Delve looked at me from across the room and I died. Otherwise it is EXCELLENT. Don't even care that it's not pumping. The KC weaving is elite.
surv is extremly combo dependent not pure prio list play style and also suffers from unreliable hero talent, but its far far from worst, i would argue a good survival can do so much better then other hunters
SL s4 with bomb juggling was bis surv hunter
truuuuue
I've been a surv main since SL and I can say surv hasn't felt as strong as it is right now, but you're right its largely the reworked hunter tree, and probably every other dps spec gaining so much more by now. Secondary stat priority changing has really messed up the kit, its very hard to maintain bomb use or stack mongoose bite with less than 10% haste, even through haste dropped to 3rd or 4th most important secondary stat. I just wish we could use two 1hand weapons (swords, axes) so we could generate more auto melees to generate more wildfire bomb reduction, not unlike how frost dk will go two 1handed to get more razor ice(?) stacks, would really help surv in the face of losing haste.
I switched from long-time MM play to Survival because Surv doesn’t sacrifice much single target to do AOE, but most of all because of the innate 6% damage reduction from their mastery. They are also the only hunter spec that can take advantage of the passive Ferocity pet leech (MM is still at a damage loss with a pet even after the Lone Wolf changes and BM only can leech from it’s own damage; too much of their damage is from their pet). The cherry on top is their interrupt is a much shorter CD than MM and BM.
The main thing that put me off of it for a long time was the fact that they’re melee, but I just needed to adjust. I grabbed Varruth’s Guillotine from Shadowlands paired with a black crow pet or Skarr (lava cat with the red eyes), and give my blood elf the undead skin tone with red eyes… I end up looking like an unidentifiable vampire class lol. You can even get a Tanaan Jungle Marsh Gulper and have a critter-sized frog pet to confuse people further.
Surv is my main alt, love playing it! I wish we had gotten the frost DK treatment to help our community perception, but survival hunter will rise one day soon! I'm sure of it.
Thanks for your common sense coverage of the best hunter spec in the game Mr. Flame, I plan on continuing to enjoy my Rexxar LARP ;)
The survival hero talents are so boring its actually insane... why do i have a talent tree centering around a dumb owl instead of like explosives expert or something? With the new design basing heavily around explosives and since marksman and survival use explosive shot it would have made sense. When im more excited for my alts hero talents(evoker) than my main theres a big issue. They could have also done a trapper hero talent tree or a serpent sting/venom based tree. Literally anything but an owl....
I kind of like the owl, seeing as how we're "one with nature" or whatever. But i also totally agree, an explosives expert or something would be so much cooler, and make more sense!
I agree, they definitely could have replaced the whole sentinel owl idea with explosives expert. It could have made explosive shot crazy strong and other neat explosive visuals/ effects for max dopamines
My favorit duel was as an orc bm/survival hunter. My opponent was a human warrior and we were 1v1 in the flag room of Warsong gulch. It came down to me popping my racial blood fury & my pets enraged (its been years). Won in melee against him. I'll never forget thst duel.
They should redesign Sentinel to function more like Starfall and not triggered by a long cd spell like bomb. Packleader should let us have special/more pets. Tip of the Spear is a good idea but doesn't fit well with the current rotation.
@@dkwest7675 they do really.need to fix sentinel. And buff mb. Its too fucking weak atm
Exotic pets for Pack leader Surv Hunter 👌❤️
The sound is bugged around 11:50, or maybe my phone is going crazy. Nice video :) I hope they’ll fix Survival
As clunky Legion season 1 and until they introduced Raptor Strike Survival was with the Mongoose Bite spam it was still the most fun i ever had.
I absolutely hate the Kill Command skill forced upon us, don't get me started on Raptor Strike...
found out survival then and had a blast then they fked it up
Feral Druid exists. Until that's functioning, Survival's in a much better state.
Blizz needs to stop BSing and finally let survival have a dual wield path and allow for a focus gen build based on it
That rotation clip is exactly how i feel when i play survival. Coming from Windwalker monk, survival feels a little wonky at times due to all of which you mentioned. At least it’s not as wonky as Enhancement shaman tho 😅
Still topping meters on my SV hunter, not quite as good as my MM but pretty close. I miss some of the things they took away but it only required small adjustments. When i run with other SV hunters and look at their Detail's they are almost always not playing right. Lot's of skill issues out there.
I wish surv was more like meele dual wield like rangers in DnD with a touch of witchers (like actualy cool bombs, weapon oil/venom etc) and maybe some cool nature spells.
I think survival suffers from shitty hero talents where you will suffer from lunar storm mobs being moved away from it and pack master is seriously undertuned(also completely negates the rework)
Augmentation does not changes logs
Personally. I think arms warrior is the worst feeling melee. I mean 90% of their abilities feel bad to press and have for nearly 10 years cleave? Fucking hell they gutted that attack. sweeping strikes? Sucks to press. Whirlwind? On arms? Slam? Just slam me off a bridge.
are you talking about animations or damage, because arms is nowhere near bad in damage
Surv is my main, right now its a 10x smoother rotation and way more damage than arms (until this next patch comes around guts its rotation/dps for literally 0 reason)
Yeah arms is the worst by far for M+. lost the mortal strike resets and hero talents getting nerfed. Feels like absolute dogshit. Everyone swapped to fury since they gave it BS (lol) and it was instantly nerfed into the obscurity. When your only utility is damage and you remove the damage warrior dps becomes worse than anything else on the roster, besides feral of course
Meanwhile ret pal strictly gets buffed whilst already being one of the best and easiest melees in the game for 2 seasons in a row. really makes you think 🤔
"
@@jimjong7684 Massive over exaggeration, arms is not that far behind survival hunter. Its about a 6% difference between the two in M+, that gap can easily be closed by skill. Single target they are neck and neck. And where are you getting this info that they are gutting survival. The butchery change is great as it will apply a bleed as well as reducing wildfire bomb by 3 seconds per target. Freeing up the charges and making it one big hasted cooldown means buffed fury of the eagle can be ran. You are just typing so much misinformation that a 2 second google search will clear up.
@@ratthew2843 they are making the auto cast for grenadier (current highest or second highest damage in key especially now haste isnt run) require a GCD input every single proc = massive DPS loss for PVE. open your eyes next time
Do you even play the spec? or arms for that matter?? go do a 10 on arms right now tell us all how great feels to play please (hard mode no lying)
@@ratthew2843 While you are at it tell me how a 15 sec CD 50% increase and an unknown bleed damage is better than 3 charges with consistent bomb resets in AoE rotation (3x50% = 150%)
Whilst also entirely REPLACING the only talent that gives you your 3 target raptor strike cleave (& 3x serpent sting proc)?
Good luck!
You're clearly a delving andy talking about a spec he hasn't played for more than 5 mins
I just wish they made Surv Hunter a tank spec. Would be awesome. Have your pet take a percentage of the damage you would take instead and your job would to be to help keep your pet alive.
They could have a leech mechanic where the more damage you do the more it heals your pet and the more damage your pet can take for you. Seems like it woould be a fun tank gameplay loop
that would be very cool. i like the idea of you and you pet tanking together. you could be your own offtank xD.
They should have made Survival DW dps spec and BM ranged Tank, where pets tank
For the love of god pls no. Surv is the last spec i enjoy in the game... please if you don't like it just leave it alone
that would be absolutely horrible, dont destroy my favorite specc
Also on pack leader, they could make something visually insane with stampede already existing, just make it good!
Survival is phenomenal. By far my fav spec, up there with Prot Paladin and Disc
This is interesting. I went back to check this info out about Survival Hunter "Depths" on the Brood fight. It is now saying it is a 32% parse. But this spec is not common on this fight. Which tells me there isnt enough info for survival hunters.
Even right now survival hunter rankings have changed making "Depths" #4.
Also make note that on the 22nd Survival is getting some changes!
I am more like a raider but Survi still feels the most fun choice. I absolutely obliterates the damage if its ST and sustain. Nobody can even close to me in my guild. Meanwhile in m+ I have lack of AOE dmg.
Survival is great, I have always played my survival hunter since the rework. However right now I not a big fan of the tip of the spear mechanic. It makes the rotation feel awkward to me, like I don't want to waste em but I need to dump some focus to not overcap and I need to dump my kill commands to not overcap that either. I still like to play it, but I preferred when it had less to work around. It just doesn't feel smooth to me personally
Pack leader needs something that can compare to the Sentinel talent (don’t look back). At 627 ilvl I have 6.6mil hp. The shield from (don’t look back) is a 660k shield, up every ten seconds. That is huge in M+. Cant believe this is not one of the top things mentioned. In SL and DF, SV hunter survivability was horrible.
Surv is hella fun in pvp though
This video woulda made sense in BFA, survival Hunter is not only fun but, it's op in the right hands
People have said survival sucks since legion but absolutely everyone has see a survival hunter pop off and top dps in pve and pvp
Survival not getting Black Arrow is actually so criminal. Sent should be BM/MM
I'm waiting for those pack leader buffs I don't like that bird shit at all until then survival will wait gathering dust
As of right now, I would rather invite a survival to any key over +9 over an enhancement shaman to be honest.
I am topping the charts on guild raids with a Survival Hunter alt that has basic delves gear.
Would like to see an 11.05 update video!
there will always be a rogue spec taking that place
Damn, can't say it doesn't happen!
well feral also trying hard the last expansions
what addon are you using for rotations?
brain
Best. Comment. Ever.
Just a weakaura that shows what buttons I already pressed xD
@@MarcelianOnline clearly not the best because the addon i am asking about is seen at 9:57.
Been very fun, didn't think I would like it as much as MM but it's been my go to. Tip adds a decent amount of min maxing to be had. I think butchery can feel a little clunky but onjce you understand it's not bad. Super fun and overhated spec. Also have had no issues keeping up in damage so idk. Shit pumps.
What I don't like the most is the crossbow we pull out of nowhere, instead I think we should throw our weapon.
For the past 5 years or so when a spec got a big spec rework they got the opportunity to shine during a live season of WoW. SV got their rework but only got to shine for 2 weeks on Beta.
If you are looking for popularity, you need to shine during live at some point. Even if you leave META status, you can keep some fans.
surv was awesome in Shadowlands
@@handofthegreatcreator -- No it wasn't. It had an overpowered tier set.
People used it because it did numbers.
It didn't change basically until the War Within Beta.
Survival has been the same spec in Shadowlands and after until this time and on one played it.
Can you still say it was or wasn't awesome when it was exactly the same spec and people refused to play it?
One broken tier set is all the shine SV has had in over 5-6 years.
Brih if I had a dollar for ever prot pally who drop con and walk right out of it and don't reset up I'd never have to pay for wow again
It’s the coolest melee spec. Using tools, traps, bombs, crossbows and pistols together with your weapon. You feel like a Witcher, frankly. Imho the swashbuckler is pretty close but survival has one of the strongest themes in their identity
I love survival. Though it doesn't feel very "survivable" Personally? I want them to make it a tank hybrid with more dps than tank giving it more self sustain from tank abilities. This is just a personal wish, your mileage may vary.
Will continue to play SV. It's fun and does (very) good dps. Tried MM for some time now but it's not my cup of tea. Especially volley and single target dps 🙈
Loved SV since it's became melee. But nowadays I don't feel it anymore. Still feels a bit weird to play... But it's a overall Hunter thing. The class feels watered. Want to be too much at the same time... fantasy-wise.
Butchery does not have 2 charges btw, it has 3
Idk, i love rly SV hunter. But only me feel in this Xpac it's slower the play style than before?
Survival’s issues are not its own, but one big problem survival has and always will have is that ... ; why play melee when you could just play at range ? i understand alot of people prefer melee, but when thats the case, most people just gravitate towards other classes. and the data shows it. sure, Survival has flaws like any other spec. but i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with its design. some love it, some hate it. But even with pristine gameplay design i think it will never attract alot of players to it. it will attrack the high level players when the spec is really good and thats pretty much it. i think another problem with playing Survival is that alot of players are super aware that they could just make things simpler and swap to BM. cause it plays like a melee dps, but has the freedom to play at any range with unrestricted movement. i think its time we just accept the fact that it is and will always be be a niche spec, because thats OK.
How did 620 become an average gear iLevel?
this is funny i main survival and very rarley lose to other hunter or mages in dps ikt is clunky but if you know what your doing it can pump. it takes soem skill unliek mages and otehr classes tah thave training wheels for dpsi/e easy mode im looking at you mages
Yea 1.8 mil dps on aoe fifht shows how bad we are . I been survival since reqork and pur hero talents blow . They cater to BM and MM. Also tip of the spear is so weird
Was surprised by this video because I'm always doing really good damage in M+ groups and in Heroic raids and parsing high on DPS. Now I'm wishing I had stayed with my Rogue. 🤣
The kill command joke was great 😂
The only reason people don’t play it is because they like BM and MM more. Rouges and Warlocks suffer the same problem.
so is it worth it ?
For me is survival & arms warrior love. ❤ and the changes in 11.0.5 makes my love even bigger. I dont need to be the best in dps i need to be the best in fun 😊 i hope packleader will come in 11.1 can understand that dark ranger needs bigger work then packleader 😂
No. People take the Butchery talent and it's worthless because of the constant GCD's.
I gotta know how to get the DPS meter to look like that. HAHA looks soooooooo good
Cries in the corner
I got you homie!
I only play survival, ever since legion. and this is the worst feeling survival so far, and its all explosive shots fault, it sucks to press, not a satisfying ability. butchery is also boring but atleast its snappy
Thanks for covering surv content.. Surv really needs some love.
Here we are, melee hunter being the best spec of the hunters overall. Nice...
I’m a surv proging mythic brood. The boss damage is great since with only two talent changes I can swing into cleave aoe. The prio damage is great and holds actual decent utility. Unfortunately I’m fighting for melee raid spots and for mm’s spot. But the spec is better than logs determine. Also sitting at 2722 IO. The spec is fun and has a unique role in m+ that brings great new utility.
What unique role and utility survival hunter brings in m+?
@@alihorda specifically in Siege, Wake and Grim the 4 second sooth or 10 second 3 target sooth are great for keeping the tanks alive. And so many mechanics are feign death able as well as the 30s self poison cleanse
@@kenlonwells2219 but that is unique to survival hunter? Other classes or specs also have enrage dispell or other cleanse. Other hunter specs have feign deaths. Or I'm missing something? Haven't played survival since shadowlands
@@alihorda not necessarily haha I gotcha, no just that hunters overall have been given way more utility. That being said in the class tree survival has 1-2 extra floater points compared to ranged giving a bit more flexibility. But no it’s all hunters. However surv is better than both at cleaving down boss/prio mobs compared to the other two.
@@kenlonwells2219 cool
I'm glad i didn't care about being top of the dps charts.
Yooooooo 🎶 bombs, butchery, kill command is back🎶
Love your videos ❤
Well yeah it sucks but tbh i just decided to main it for this Season for the first time and i actually enjoy it. So ill stick with it for now. Plus atleast right now in my Keys i atleast can keep up with the meta specs and thats all i need.
Haha you blamed the healer :P
For me personally I don’t have a problem with the gameplay I have a problem with the theme. .
Personally what I would have done with hunter is
Marksmen - nuke range
BM - dual wield melee hunter+ pet
Survival - poisons and combat trap dog spec. - I would even toss in some utility for them like “antidote shot” = you shoot s friendly target with an antidote to cute pan/ talent can also dispel curses.
Something like this to carve out a survival theme
Maybe bring back range survival hunter?
I know I’m alone on this but god I miss mop/wod survival hunter is was so fun 😭
The best SV hunter was vanilla, paired with MM stacking agility, endless crit paired with PVP utility.
You're not alone, MoP was when I first started playing and Surv was my first raiding toon. I've always thought BM should be the Melee spec and Surv being a DoT (Poisons and Bleeds) spec at range. So BM would be a Melee Physical spec (splitting damage with your pet, the synergy that Pack Leader is *trying* to capture); MM should be a Phys/Direct damage, ranged and petless, leaving Surv as a DoT spec.
We can dream...
def not alone. i know a lot loved it in wod. i pvped still as MM. think they coulda just split the two but blizz already struggles to balance
Yes
*Checks logs*
*Checks comments*
Survival at top
On to the next video, no need to watch.
Lmfao the cope in the comments is hilarious. Spec is clunky af.
Easy as this. The playstyle is shit. It will always be shit until they really overhaul it.
Imagine mounting your own pet and charging into battle
dual wielding hatchets to strike your foe AND still use a bow/gun/crossbow as long ranged.
cool vfx to cater these ideas. Rexxar is the best example of what we wish survival hunters to be. It's a shame they always play around the same ideas since legion that nobody asked for.
I don’t know man I wish they would just revert it back to being ranged
I feel like most hunters would like that
I think this is the first DF-eske rework that failed. And it pains me to see
I dunno man, I was outDPSing a Frost mage on my Survival Hunter doing an M0 pretty consistently. 🤷♂️ I don't play for big numbers, I play for personally enjoyment and theme.
I still argue survival should go back to be ranged, and be based around traps, poisons, and explosions
It's very difficult to use metrics since the best players would never use survival. I agree with most people here though, Survival is really fun and well designed. The hero talents really drag it down and, I would even argue, they make survival worse to play.
They really, and urgently, need to improve hero talents for Survival. Sentinel is awful to use and Pack Leader is probably the weakest hero talents in the game.
For me, the class fantasy just wasn't executed well... Why do we have bombs as our primary AOE? Why do we not have axe throws that cleave?
Thrown weapons mixed into a melee attacks should've been the go to... Unfortunately this spec is all over the place flavor-wise.
I dont think anyone agrees with that. lol hot take...
I dont like survival as it currently sits. the class is trying to be too many things at once, giving way to much bloat to rotation.
wow., i really hope this is just a clickbait title because otherwise you are insane.
Poor survivals can’t catch a break. I think the whole spec needs a redefining. I would prefer it to play without a pet
If they went back to the Legion iteration, it would be perfect. I know everybody hated it at the time, but I think they just hated it because it was the first expansion that we got melee Hunters at all in. For the first time since Vanilla, I switched mains in Legion-from a Retribution Paladin, to Survival. It was *extremely* fun to play for me, and had a surprisingly flexible but still cohesive rotation if you knew what you were doing and took the time to actually learn how the spec worked.
And I agree; the pet feels incredibly awkward and like an afterthought for Survival.
@@Sanguivore I haven’t played survival back then so I can’t comment on that . I would like for survival to be like the ranger from DnD medium armored swift warrior the between of warrior and rogue.
Not that bad actually xD
Honestly, I totally agree. I'm not the biggest pet fan at all, sure, but pets feel so much worse in melee than ranged to me. I just want to be a dude stalking my prey with a spear, easy
nice
So nice Xd
Melee SV hunter is shit, bring back the MM hybrid from vanilla, stack agility & crit....ranged, survival.
I like it, it is cool :)
Idk why but every expansion survival is the worst melee in the game
first
Close :P
so survival sucks?
The Legion rework for Survival has got to be one of the top 5 most moronic things Blizz did.
It’s honestly amazing that no matter what they do the spec sucks every single time since the rework
SL Surv best Surv bring it back plz !!!! cant catch a break on SV I always end up changing not fun 🥲