really nice =) ahahaha! i wish they had something as hard core as this in the philippines.. but im kinda scared from the injury that I will get hahaha nice sportsmanship and techniques =) Respect from the Philippines =)
I don´t know if PTK are involved, I know there are many people from various styles, even non FMA, but of course many of the Dogs also train DBMA. I was not at a gathering before, but friends which train mith we (Historical Fencing, Stickfighting and Self-defense) are the Wolfspack Dog Brothers Traininggroup and we bout often and every month there is an open sparrings-meeting with them, just check out channel of zukuru. Most of the Dogs use pretty thin gloves, thoose keep your hands free for such
I guess we mean the same :-) So I meant the strike you can do repetive multiple times from your wrist forhand and backhand. I did not saw any offense in your postings, so no problem, my friend :-) My personal opinion as an historical fencer and combatives enthusiast is, that the Dogs are very, very good fighters, gentle warriors and everyone using a stick, should bout with them one time.
But Redonda you can see much often, i saw and used them myself, when sparring with the Dogs. Also in this video, one double-stick-bout you can clearly see such things. Of course, the Grappling-aspect gives some fighters an advantage, if they are not so good with the stick, but believe me, all Dogs which train DBMA can use the stick effectively. Th difference is, at the Gathering there are Dogs who train DBMA and some who train something else, like the 3-section-staff fighter (he doesBJJ + Gongfu
Of course it is a big difference if you use hardwood sticks and no protection and fight for your life. But this is the highest level you can do sparring without killing each other, because it is as free as you said MMA. Of course it is no real street-deal, but that is not the intention of it. You see no Abanicos, but don´t get me wrong, that technique is also senseless with a hardwood-stick, it makes only sense with a blade (and you have similar stuff in european swordfighting btw).
The difference is, Death Matches were serious incidents, but Gatherings of the Dog Brothers are for testing the skills and for bonding as a Pack, it is not about domination of another human being with hate and serious injuring him. I wonder how many masters form the FMA worldwide are able to even "just" do a Gathering-bout with one of the Dogs, minimum protection, maximum contact? The fencing-maskes and gloves give only the minimum of protection needed to let it be a combat sport.
You missunderstood, the post of ifightwitsticksyo sounded like europe was a place of as good as no knife-attacks. But with a short view to the police-report, you see the knife is the most used weapon in criminal incidents and acts of violence. Of course, maybe statistically the fear is much bigger than the number of incidents and I am happy to be never involved in a knife-attack yet, but anyway it happens often enough in my opinion, to be prepared for a dangerous guy pulling a blade out.
Unfortunately knife-incidents and stabbings happen here in Europe often enough. Tha chancee, that there is a knife involved to a street-attack or a pub-brawl is highly likely, in Germany, England, France, Poland, all over Europe such knifeattacks happen sadly too often. But don´t forget, many Dogs fight for the bonding, the self-experience and evolving as a fighter, some of them with no strong or any self-defense focus.
hi xekxkok you are right, there are very few hidden knives in the euro gatherings. this has many reasons. but one of the most important one is that most of the guys in europe just love the ritual space energy of a gathering. we want to keep out the "real world" stuff like streetfighting etc. a gathering of the pack is a magical event. we love the energy of these gentlemen stickfights, and do not want to "poison" it with hidden knives.
The Dog Brothers will keep the real art of Arnes de mano or Arnis alive. I hope it will outlive the big associations that churn out and expand passive drills upon passive drills that look cool but... I say no more. When I was shown the style of Novaliches for example, it was 8 angles of attack and defence (based on single edged native sword techniques), estocados (based on thrusts and lunging from Spanish swordsmanship, the conquistadors' rapier played havoc against the much shorter native swords), abanicos (techniques that swung the weapon wide related to polearms or longer bastons). To this was linear, triangular and circular stepping plus lunge. That's it. The movements practiced in pairs and tested with sparring. Controlled contact with no gloves was preferred until the reflex of getting the weapon hand away became fast enough then gloves and full contact after. Stick drills were very few. Nowhere near the array now. Footwork was seen as the most important aspect of being able to hit and not get hit... blade blocks seen as riskier and only done when withdrawing or yourself delivering a strike. The first skill was to be able to hold a stick above the head and deliver a head strike and come out of the range of the counter blow as quick as possible... (Theory for training this: in a bladed fight, any quick cut to the top of the head will mean blood trickles to the eyes, impairing vision. If you got the jump on someone not concentrating, that's the first technique.)
Mmmh - "..., the risk of getting into a knife fight is present, but fairly slim." - This is exactly what I said. Those who know me, would interpret "living on the edge" definitely different than you do. But I'm sure you got your reasons to be offensive to people you don't know, right ?
. the point is not if knife training is relevant or not, neither should be cast doubt on if the fighters at a gathering are skilled with the knife. for me it's more the question if a Gathering of the Pack is the right place to do "real world" stuff... wuff Lonely Dog .
I totaly disagree with your first statement. In 50 years of living on the edge and travelling throughout europe I've never seen a situation, a knife was involved outsite my ritual space. There is a fear, but seldomly reality.
There are folks who get together and spar like this. But it's usually reserved for after folks get to know each other or only for in-house sparing - not for outsiders. For those of us who spar with folks from other schools we usually start of with forms of minimal armor. My personal favorite is no armor, eye protection and padded rattan sticks - you can still knock someone out - but that is extremely rare. PM me if you're in Manila.
Just visited your profile. So you only "live on the edge" during practice.. In your previous comment you used your "livin on the edge" to appear as some sort of expert on "street violence". Since you don't wanna be seen as a criminal, I take it you're not after all. Ok, that probably makes you a better person, but less of a veteran street fighter?... I've never been in a real knife fight either, but due to the blade's destructive capabilities, we'd better prepare for it anyway!
I'm just making a fair inquiry. I don't offend ppl I dont know, but by all means, feel free to take offense, if that's your thing! Living on the edge, when stated in conjunction with knife violence, leads the thought to the world of heavy partying, rough neighborhoods and criminal elements. Context is everything. The ppl I know about, in my neighborhood, who have been knifed, were all criminals, drug addicts, or hanging out with these kinda persons, that's all. Risk proportional to exposure..
What do you mean by "living on the edge"? Are you a criminal, or do you often hang out with criminals? In my experience, most law abiding citizens in Europe do not carry knives or firearms, but criminals and drug addicts often do. So as long as you do not get involved with these kinda types, the risk of getting into a knife fight is present, but fairly slim.
There's a simple explanation to these statistics: While most fights are probably unarmed, most of the really bad ones, which result in maiming or death, involve weapons of some sort, most often one or more knife. And of course these always result police investigation and reports, whereas many or most unarmed street brawls never gets reported.
This is great! No BS padding whatsoever! Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of armors but arnis really lies in having no to little armor and pure agi skills.
These people voluntarily risk injury for a chance to inculcate themselves to the adrenal dump one experiences in a genuinely threatening scenario; it actually takes a great deal of practice to be able to muster the fine motor skills in this state. If you don't like training this way, that's fine; most people can't handle the pain or stress. If you want to win a fight however, maybe you should spar with the "thugs" before running your mouth.
I ask because in the half dozen or so videos from the Euro there is not even one instance that I saw of the hidden blade or espada y daga. Maybe they have a rule against? But it seems like that runs counter to point? I know there is at least 2 guys who have fought at the Euro whose channels I am subbed to, so I am hoping one of them can chime in?
I am referring directly to Dog Brothers Gatherings. I have been to 3, the Open in '10 and '11 and the Canadian this past Feb. I carry and utilize a hidden blade in every fight, looking for feedback from fighters from Europe who have been to at least one Gathering.
Going to my first Gathering this weekend, so consider the source. As a bouncer at a bar, for me, the hidden knife is a means to bring in what is highly likely to happen in a street fight...if the guy hadn't intended to initially use the knife, may turn to it in desperation.
biggest thing that I see as a difference between the Euro and N American Gatherings is that on the left side of the pond there seems to be a lot more "hidden knife" as well as Espada y daga. I KNOW there are a few Euro Dogs out there, can any of you boys (and girls) shed some light on the reason?
good luck this weekend bro! I couldn't make it out to cali this year and it bums me out. Your first Gathering will change your life! I wish I could trade places. Make sure to fight at least one Named Dog... but not Toki, he will stab you in the butt... trust me!
that's a modern way of Death Match here in Philippines way back 1950s particularly in Visayas & Mindanao areas. Way back then they only use stick/s & your skills for defense... No headgears and gloves. That's totally bloody contact!
ty guro! you can prob figure out I asked the question on the DB facebook as well. I will one day make it to Switzerland so that I can feel the vibrations. My good friend Shawn Wandering Dog made your video, I see!
And if the US, if the guy or one of his buddies doesn't have a gun, likely there is a knife somewhere...if he is initiating a street/bar fight. May be less prominent in Europe.
i respect all that do this. but i would like to see some iaido, akido, Kenjutsu guys in here. i bless all of you that train. just use this training for the right reason.
There idiots for everything! Even to attack with swords, knives and daggers. Afff! While he was fighting, I found interesting. Then he turned stupidity.
Great, very good fights and the Broadsword Academy Germany sends many greetings to all the Dogs, especially the Wolfspack. I love the upgrade of the war-chariot, seems to have worked much better than the trash containers used back in Wiesbaden.
and i guess that we just love the stick... according the motto: "it's not a sword, it's not a magic wand, it's a stick!" ps. we had in the past some "buston y daga" fights, and i would like to see more of them the next year.
Always great stuff indeed! I couldn't help but notice though that some of these guys seem to have some anger issues while sparring, but for the most part, brilliant stuff!
really nice =) ahahaha! i wish they had something as hard core as this in the philippines.. but im kinda scared from the injury that I will get hahaha nice sportsmanship and techniques =) Respect from the Philippines =)
I don´t know if PTK are involved, I know there are many people from various styles, even non FMA, but of course many of the Dogs also train DBMA. I was not at a gathering before, but friends which train mith we (Historical Fencing, Stickfighting and Self-defense) are the Wolfspack Dog Brothers Traininggroup and we bout often and every month there is an open sparrings-meeting with them, just check out channel of zukuru. Most of the Dogs use pretty thin gloves, thoose keep your hands free for such
I guess we mean the same :-) So I meant the strike you can do repetive multiple times from your wrist forhand and backhand.
I did not saw any offense in your postings, so no problem, my friend :-) My personal opinion as an historical fencer and combatives enthusiast is, that the Dogs are very, very good fighters, gentle warriors and everyone using a stick, should bout with them one time.
But Redonda you can see much often, i saw and used them myself, when sparring with the Dogs. Also in this video, one double-stick-bout you can clearly see such things. Of course, the Grappling-aspect gives some fighters an advantage, if they are not so good with the stick, but believe me, all Dogs which train DBMA can use the stick effectively. Th difference is, at the Gathering there are Dogs who train DBMA and some who train something else, like the 3-section-staff fighter (he doesBJJ + Gongfu
Of course it is a big difference if you use hardwood sticks and no protection and fight for your life. But this is the highest level you can do sparring without killing each other, because it is as free as you said MMA. Of course it is no real street-deal, but that is not the intention of it. You see no Abanicos, but don´t get me wrong, that technique is also senseless with a hardwood-stick, it makes only sense with a blade (and you have similar stuff in european swordfighting btw).
The difference is, Death Matches were serious incidents, but Gatherings of the Dog Brothers are for testing the skills and for bonding as a Pack, it is not about domination of another human being with hate and serious injuring him. I wonder how many masters form the FMA worldwide are able to even "just" do a Gathering-bout with one of the Dogs, minimum protection, maximum contact? The fencing-maskes and gloves give only the minimum of protection needed to let it be a combat sport.
You missunderstood, the post of ifightwitsticksyo sounded like europe was a place of as good as no knife-attacks. But with a short view to the police-report, you see the knife is the most used weapon in criminal incidents and acts of violence. Of course, maybe statistically the fear is much bigger than the number of incidents and I am happy to be never involved in a knife-attack yet, but anyway it happens often enough in my opinion, to be prepared for a dangerous guy pulling a blade out.
Unfortunately knife-incidents and stabbings happen here in Europe often enough. Tha chancee, that there is a knife involved to a street-attack or a pub-brawl is highly likely, in Germany, England, France, Poland, all over Europe such knifeattacks happen sadly too often. But don´t forget, many Dogs fight for the bonding, the self-experience and evolving as a fighter, some of them with no strong or any self-defense focus.
hi xekxkok
you are right, there are very few hidden knives in the euro gatherings. this has many reasons. but one of the most important one is that most of the guys in europe just love the ritual space energy of a gathering. we want to keep out the "real world" stuff like streetfighting etc.
a gathering of the pack is a magical event. we love the energy of these gentlemen stickfights, and do not want to "poison" it with hidden knives.
The Dog Brothers will keep the real art of Arnes de mano or Arnis alive. I hope it will outlive the big associations that churn out and expand passive drills upon passive drills that look cool but... I say no more.
When I was shown the style of Novaliches for example, it was 8 angles of attack and defence (based on single edged native sword techniques), estocados (based on thrusts and lunging from Spanish swordsmanship, the conquistadors' rapier played havoc against the much shorter native swords), abanicos (techniques that swung the weapon wide related to polearms or longer bastons). To this was linear, triangular and circular stepping plus lunge. That's it. The movements practiced in pairs and tested with sparring. Controlled contact with no gloves was preferred until the reflex of getting the weapon hand away became fast enough then gloves and full contact after. Stick drills were very few. Nowhere near the array now. Footwork was seen as the most important aspect of being able to hit and not get hit... blade blocks seen as riskier and only done when withdrawing or yourself delivering a strike. The first skill was to be able to hold a stick above the head and deliver a head strike and come out of the range of the counter blow as quick as possible... (Theory for training this: in a bladed fight, any quick cut to the top of the head will mean blood trickles to the eyes, impairing vision. If you got the jump on someone not concentrating, that's the first technique.)
Mmmh - "..., the risk of getting into a knife fight is present, but fairly slim."
- This is exactly what I said.
Those who know me, would interpret "living on the edge" definitely different than you do. But I'm sure you got your reasons to be offensive to people you don't know, right ?
.
the point is not if knife training is relevant or not, neither should be cast doubt on if the fighters at a gathering are skilled with the knife.
for me it's more the question if a Gathering of the Pack is the right place to do "real world" stuff...
wuff
Lonely Dog
.
I totaly disagree with your first statement.
In 50 years of living on the edge and travelling throughout europe I've never seen a situation, a knife was involved outsite my ritual space. There is a fear, but seldomly reality.
There are folks who get together and spar like this. But it's usually reserved for after folks get to know each other or only for in-house sparing - not for outsiders. For those of us who spar with folks from other schools we usually start of with forms of minimal armor. My personal favorite is no armor, eye protection and padded rattan sticks - you can still knock someone out - but that is extremely rare. PM me if you're in Manila.
Just visited your profile. So you only "live on the edge" during practice.. In your previous comment you used your "livin on the edge" to appear as some sort of expert on "street violence". Since you don't wanna be seen as a criminal, I take it you're not after all. Ok, that probably makes you a better person, but less of a veteran street fighter?... I've never been in a real knife fight either, but due to the blade's destructive capabilities, we'd better prepare for it anyway!
I'm just making a fair inquiry. I don't offend ppl I dont know, but by all means, feel free to take offense, if that's your thing! Living on the edge, when stated in conjunction with knife violence, leads the thought to the world of heavy partying, rough neighborhoods and criminal elements. Context is everything. The ppl I know about, in my neighborhood, who have been knifed, were all criminals, drug addicts, or hanging out with these kinda persons, that's all. Risk proportional to exposure..
What do you mean by "living on the edge"? Are you a criminal, or do you often hang out with criminals? In my experience, most law abiding citizens in Europe do not carry knives or firearms, but criminals and drug addicts often do. So as long as you do not get involved with these kinda types, the risk of getting into a knife fight is present, but fairly slim.
There's a simple explanation to these statistics: While most fights are probably unarmed, most of the really bad ones, which result in maiming or death, involve weapons of some sort, most often one or more knife. And of course these always result police investigation and reports, whereas many or most unarmed street brawls never gets reported.
This is great! No BS padding whatsoever!
Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of armors but arnis really lies in having no to little armor and pure agi skills.
These people voluntarily risk injury for a chance to inculcate themselves to the adrenal dump one experiences in a genuinely threatening scenario; it actually takes a great deal of practice to be able to muster the fine motor skills in this state. If you don't like training this way, that's fine; most people can't handle the pain or stress. If you want to win a fight however, maybe you should spar with the "thugs" before running your mouth.
Pure awesomeness
I ask because in the half dozen or so videos from the Euro there is not even one instance that I saw of the hidden blade or espada y daga. Maybe they have a rule against? But it seems like that runs counter to point? I know there is at least 2 guys who have fought at the Euro whose channels I am subbed to, so I am hoping one of them can chime in?
I am referring directly to Dog Brothers Gatherings. I have been to 3, the Open in '10 and '11 and the Canadian this past Feb. I carry and utilize a hidden blade in every fight, looking for feedback from fighters from Europe who have been to at least one Gathering.
Going to my first Gathering this weekend, so consider the source. As a bouncer at a bar, for me, the hidden knife is a means to bring in what is highly likely to happen in a street fight...if the guy hadn't intended to initially use the knife, may turn to it in desperation.
biggest thing that I see as a difference between the Euro and N American Gatherings is that on the left side of the pond there seems to be a lot more "hidden knife" as well as Espada y daga. I KNOW there are a few Euro Dogs out there, can any of you boys (and girls) shed some light on the reason?
good luck this weekend bro! I couldn't make it out to cali this year and it bums me out. Your first Gathering will change your life! I wish I could trade places. Make sure to fight at least one Named Dog... but not Toki, he will stab you in the butt... trust me!
that's a modern way of Death Match here in Philippines way back 1950s particularly in Visayas & Mindanao areas. Way back then they only use stick/s & your skills for defense... No headgears and gloves. That's totally bloody contact!
ty guro! you can prob figure out I asked the question on the DB facebook as well. I will one day make it to Switzerland so that I can feel the vibrations. My good friend Shawn Wandering Dog made your video, I see!
And if the US, if the guy or one of his buddies doesn't have a gun, likely there is a knife somewhere...if he is initiating a street/bar fight. May be less prominent in Europe.
i respect all that do this. but i would like to see some iaido, akido, Kenjutsu guys in here. i bless all of you that train. just use this training for the right reason.
There idiots for everything! Even to attack with swords, knives and daggers. Afff! While he was fighting, I found interesting. Then he turned stupidity.
the guy on 2:16 and 2:25 was pretty good . instead of managing to hit its opponent .he disarmed him ahahah . true Kali warrior
im not into stickfighting but i reccommend the dogbrothers when i hear somebody talking about checking out an escrima class
nobody ever die from a stick to the throat yet?
Love the dogbrother stuff !
I would really like to see some 2v2 or 3v3 or some kind of "Team-Battle".
Wheres Yoshimitsu lml. Anyways seem like something I would wanna try out.
Do people often get knocked out to these events?
This looks painful. and fun. and painful!
Great, very good fights and the Broadsword Academy Germany sends many greetings to all the Dogs, especially the Wolfspack. I love the upgrade of the war-chariot, seems to have worked much better than the trash containers used back in Wiesbaden.
ragazzi siete i migliori
and i guess that we just love the stick... according the motto: "it's not a sword, it's not a magic wand, it's a stick!"
ps. we had in the past some "buston y daga" fights, and i would like to see more of them the next year.
1:53 As Father as Son. ^^
Hm, good point.
Good point :-)
Always great stuff indeed! I couldn't help but notice though that some of these guys seem to have some anger issues while sparring, but for the most part, brilliant stuff!
I'd loved to be there...
great video , a way to test your skills in a respectful atmoshphere , great sportsmanship shown by all the fighters !
the blades is really?
I always love to watch these. Always great stuff!
What kind of gloves did they used for sparring? thank you
+MikeeMedia
rollhockey gloves
Thank you!
great vid! Full contact weaponry - BRUTAL
Incredible. Love it.