@LegendofNelda - No one is innocent. You'd know that if you read your Bible. I wasn't talking about the multiple sexual allegations against him. That's his business. I'm talking about his false doctrine. If you read your Bible, you'd recognize that, too. So stop victim shaming because God was behind the fall of Tim Cavey. God cuts down false teachers and raises Holy Spirit filled teachers. On the sexual allegations, Cavey already confessed.
I went there for 15 years, led a small group and strategy for their brand refresh. I always had an underlying sense something was off. And that sense grew with time even on other matters not covered here. On a range of topics the political viewpoint bias started coming through. For the atonement debate, the best example of the dynamic under testing is William Land Craig with Greg Boyd on Unbelievable's youtube. You can see how Boyd's position falls apart and WLC is more inclusive. Boyd is a big fan of Bruxy. Boyd also wrote an article on Jordan Peterson with a wide range of typical hair-splitting and misunderstandings. He seemed fearful of people in his church who had believed hit pieces on Jordan being a gate way to "far-right extremism" and so on. Where I really started pushing back was when a guest speaker Jarrod (a white guy with dreadlocks from Australia) explained that "whiteness" means evil. And said "we must repent of our whiteness." When I asked why Paul's verse on separation of elemental evil from ethnicity was being violated, ("we battle not against flesh and blood but against evil..") I never got an answer beyond the suggestion to read more Jarrod books. I asked Bruxy if it was possible for white people to be saved if whiteness is evil still even after Jesus died to forgive us of our sins. He said he was a bad pastor for me to think such a thing. Jarrod himself didn't address that when I asked him, and when I got Bruxy on the phone, it felt like I was being brushed off with corporate PR deflection tactics. Another senior pastor avoided the topic as well. And others tried to brief Bruxy on postmodern theory they saw creeping into the church. Some of their pastors are more aware of these matters. But their "Jesus Collective" organization provides support to churches who are fully lgbt affirming. After years of preaching against "religious rituals rules and routines that keep people from jesus" the church began practicing indigenous mysticism via zoom on Sunday mornings. Even Christian rituals were looked down on. But now apparently shamanistic rituals are ok in their view? A woman who I understand to not be a believer lit "sacred sage" over zoom. The smoke is supposed to purify the air from evil spirits. Does this still work for me in my house over the internet? If not, why even do it? Could that be a religious ritual that keeps people from Jesus? (This was done first at an event hosted at the TMH main site which I attended and this woman led. The event had several people in tears, emotionally devastated, which is by design. As a person with indigenous heritage myself who has studied the history, many key details were left out which I raised at the end. The leader actually appreciated it. It must be pointed out as well that when theatres required vaccine passports for ages 12 and up to enter, the church made no effort to question that, (it holds services in theatres, though it's own site in Oakville did not require this). So the church became complicit in the state and corporate abuse of power, while violating James' instruction to avoid favoritism and exclusion of classes deemed lesser value by society. Avoiding this kind of abuse seemed core to their distinctives for many years. That distinctive was abandoned with the slightest pressure. As long as abuse is coded as "love" and "compassion." When I questioned our site pastor, a blog post by Bruxy defending mask mandates was used to justify the coerced experimental injections. Someting in a very different category where informed consent comes into play. It was deeply ironic to see all the outrage at bruxy that a young woman over 18 "could not consent" because "he had power." Strange how that idea is not consistently applied. At that point I felt they were beyond my capability to reason with as they were closed to engagement, epistemic humility and correction. Thank you for your efforts!
Thanks for this. Some of it I was aware of but had to be pretty picky as I only had 45 minutes. I could have easily done 5 or 6 hours with the material I have, but I had to focus on some of the key issues. Your comment is a lot like many emails and comments I've received over the years. Thanks for engaging!
I was at that church for 12 years. I was taken in. Some things I was not comfortable with but it was my church. When the online services were being replaced by in person for “vaccinated” people and my appeals to site pastor, Bruxy and the lead pastor were countered and justified I left. So blessed to not be there!
I don’t understand why you felt it was necessary to give this talk now. Bruxy is down, not preaching nor in ministry anymore. What was your motive? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. You guys are better than that. It has been nothing but heartbreaking for the congregants and family. Why spend so much of your life researching him, move on.
@@careb my motive was to give an overview of what he was teaching, and what happened during the controversy - which is what I did. Also, it serves as a way to wrap up the years of hard work I did in exposing him. Just because he is out of the picture for now doesn't mean his teaching isn't still prevalent. There are still lots of Meeting-Housers out there who still belive this trash theology that leads people to hell, and jist because Cavey's gone doesnt mean this stuff isn't still being taught at TMH. This is a great time to reach those congregants as many will likely be more open to hearing criticisms of Cavey's teaching now knowing he was living a life of sin behind the scenes. And the text about being without sin and casting stones is a warning against hypocritical judgment, so how do you think I was being hypocritical?
@@careb Jesus was saying to exercise caution if considering capital punishment on someone wrongfully accused. Bruxy is not wrongfully accused and no one is trying to stone him. Jesus was not condemning anyone who criticizes abuse of power, the teaching of false doctrine or exhorts against living in sin. We are in fact commanded to rebuke and expel the wayward brother in some circumstances.
Bruxy was my "professor " at the University of Waterloo...and after a 1 year push of the university for students to sign up for his upcoming course- the course started and to everyone's surprise- Bruxy taught the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and that homosexuality was actually a sin - as says the Word of God. He proved this with Scripture. People were shocked and mouths were open. Suddenly the tune changed at UofW - and he became quickly hated by staff and students alike. He wasnt as "loose" as was hoped for... despite his weaknesses that are news acclaimed- I believe he does love the Lord Jesus Christ.. I'm just saying...maybe we could show Bruxy the same grace we've been given from Jesus? Just a thought...we all far short...is that not correct?
Dude, at 23:55 you respond to Bruxy's teaching but your response does not address the issues and you straw man Bruxy's position. Why not do better? This is a real issue so foundational to christian teaching and it doesnt seem to make sense to a lot of people. According to penal substitution, Jesus was substituted to satisfy a law which would have all sinners in hell. So how is the ascension possible? I mean why isnt Jesus in hell substituting for the sinners. If god can somehow save the substitute from eternal damnation then why cant he save sinners without substitute, put another way, who is substituting for Jesus?
I don't attend either of these churches, but have listened to Bruxy speak, and listened to this lecture. This lecture was scarily void of not only logical argument, but also void of support from scripture. It was essentially a very subjective opinion piece. The majority of the points were "here's what Bruxy said, and that's wrong". As radical as Bruxy is, I'll give him this; his points are always scripture based, even his comments about "scripture". I found this entire presentation from Eric to be extremely close minded and stuck in the very "religious" overtones that Bruxy has spoken out agains. It also had a few unnecessary personal "shots" that really undermine the integrity of the whole thing.
The speakers distain is palpable from the beginning. I think he makes a mistake. In a time when churches are closing everywhere, Bruxy's teaching was growing churches. . . There is clearly a need the church is failing to meet in peoples life and to tell people that church is failing because the people are wrong is absurd. If Bruxy is wrong then still the church needs to self examine because the growth of the meeting house proves people's desire and hunger. Why is the church failing?
There is nothing wrong with Bruxy’s Theology. Yes there is a ton of repentance and restoration needed but anabaptist theology makes more sense than anything else
Listening to your judgmental, critical and actually nasty comments I can honestly say it saddens me to think that you are a speaker at a Christian school destroying another Christian brother regardless of your opinion. I think perhaps you would do better at studying the sermon on the mound and Jesus teachings. Bruxy is but a man who loves God and is a sinners as we all are, so if you are with out sin then YOU CAN CAST THE FIRST STONE if not perhaps you should look inward before you trash others. a Christian sister who loves Bruxy and loves you too
No one is giving bruxy the death penalty. If you conflate criticism of character and ideas-with murder, then did Jesus murder the pharisees by condemning their corruption? It is far from love to make excuses for those who use their power to sexually exploit parishioners. He made many theological errors he chose not to correct when confronted. Much is expected of teachers. And if you oppose judgements which are coming from the Lord-it is not your brothers you oppose, but their King.
The rot lies in 3 things: 1. cult of personality following a pastor, no matter how gifted. The cult of personality is only found in Jesus. 2. Complete lack of structural accountability ; 3. Weaponizing teachings i.e, forgiveness. Why can't we just forgive? Forgiveness, yes, but it doesn't necessarily mean welcome back. This man now says, "This is my Therapy" (the internet? His website?) and I'm a mess. We need to see the deep problem with the internet being his therapy and we need to accept and believe him when he says he's a mess. He needs help and replatforming him to do the same thing is not helping anyone, least of all Bruxy Cavey.
We stand with Bruxy
Then you will fall for anything. Read your Bible.
@@MrDonpasqualino Bruxy is innocent. You are deceived by a spirit of wickedness and worldliness
@LegendofNelda - No one is innocent. You'd know that if you read your Bible. I wasn't talking about the multiple sexual allegations against him. That's his business. I'm talking about his false doctrine. If you read your Bible, you'd recognize that, too. So stop victim shaming because God was behind the fall of Tim Cavey. God cuts down false teachers and raises Holy Spirit filled teachers. On the sexual allegations, Cavey already confessed.
@MrDonpasqualino Yes he did teach false doctrine. I am referring to the criminal case.
I went there for 15 years, led a small group and strategy for their brand refresh. I always had an underlying sense something was off. And that sense grew with time even on other matters not covered here. On a range of topics the political viewpoint bias started coming through. For the atonement debate, the best example of the dynamic under testing is William Land Craig with Greg Boyd on Unbelievable's youtube. You can see how Boyd's position falls apart and WLC is more inclusive. Boyd is a big fan of Bruxy. Boyd also wrote an article on Jordan Peterson with a wide range of typical hair-splitting and misunderstandings. He seemed fearful of people in his church who had believed hit pieces on Jordan being a gate way to "far-right extremism" and so on.
Where I really started pushing back was when a guest speaker Jarrod (a white guy with dreadlocks from Australia) explained that "whiteness" means evil. And said "we must repent of our whiteness." When I asked why Paul's verse on separation of elemental evil from ethnicity was being violated, ("we battle not against flesh and blood but against evil..") I never got an answer beyond the suggestion to read more Jarrod books. I asked Bruxy if it was possible for white people to be saved if whiteness is evil still even after Jesus died to forgive us of our sins. He said he was a bad pastor for me to think such a thing.
Jarrod himself didn't address that when I asked him, and when I got Bruxy on the phone, it felt like I was being brushed off with corporate PR deflection tactics. Another senior pastor avoided the topic as well. And others tried to brief Bruxy on postmodern theory they saw creeping into the church. Some of their pastors are more aware of these matters. But their "Jesus Collective" organization provides support to churches who are fully lgbt affirming.
After years of preaching against "religious rituals rules and routines that keep people from jesus" the church began practicing indigenous mysticism via zoom on Sunday mornings. Even Christian rituals were looked down on. But now apparently shamanistic rituals are ok in their view? A woman who I understand to not be a believer lit "sacred sage" over zoom. The smoke is supposed to purify the air from evil spirits. Does this still work for me in my house over the internet? If not, why even do it? Could that be a religious ritual that keeps people from Jesus? (This was done first at an event hosted at the TMH main site which I attended and this woman led. The event had several people in tears, emotionally devastated, which is by design. As a person with indigenous heritage myself who has studied the history, many key details were left out which I raised at the end. The leader actually appreciated it.
It must be pointed out as well that when theatres required vaccine passports for ages 12 and up to enter, the church made no effort to question that, (it holds services in theatres, though it's own site in Oakville did not require this). So the church became complicit in the state and corporate abuse of power, while violating James' instruction to avoid favoritism and exclusion of classes deemed lesser value by society. Avoiding this kind of abuse seemed core to their distinctives for many years. That distinctive was abandoned with the slightest pressure. As long as abuse is coded as "love" and "compassion." When I questioned our site pastor, a blog post by Bruxy defending mask mandates was used to justify the coerced experimental injections. Someting in a very different category where informed consent comes into play. It was deeply ironic to see all the outrage at bruxy that a young woman over 18 "could not consent" because "he had power." Strange how that idea is not consistently applied.
At that point I felt they were beyond my capability to reason with as they were closed to engagement, epistemic humility and correction. Thank you for your efforts!
Thanks for this. Some of it I was aware of but had to be pretty picky as I only had 45 minutes. I could have easily done 5 or 6 hours with the material I have, but I had to focus on some of the key issues. Your comment is a lot like many emails and comments I've received over the years. Thanks for engaging!
I was at that church for 12 years. I was taken in. Some things I was not comfortable with but it was my church. When the online services were being replaced by in person for “vaccinated” people and my appeals to site pastor, Bruxy and the lead pastor were countered and justified I left. So blessed to not be there!
I don’t understand why you felt it was necessary to give this talk now. Bruxy is down, not preaching nor in ministry anymore. What was your motive? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. You guys are better than that. It has been nothing but heartbreaking for the congregants and family. Why spend so much of your life researching him, move on.
@@careb my motive was to give an overview of what he was teaching, and what happened during the controversy - which is what I did. Also, it serves as a way to wrap up the years of hard work I did in exposing him.
Just because he is out of the picture for now doesn't mean his teaching isn't still prevalent. There are still lots of Meeting-Housers out there who still belive this trash theology that leads people to hell, and jist because Cavey's gone doesnt mean this stuff isn't still being taught at TMH. This is a great time to reach those congregants as many will likely be more open to hearing criticisms of Cavey's teaching now knowing he was living a life of sin behind the scenes.
And the text about being without sin and casting stones is a warning against hypocritical judgment, so how do you think I was being hypocritical?
@@careb Jesus was saying to exercise caution if considering capital punishment on someone wrongfully accused. Bruxy is not wrongfully accused and no one is trying to stone him. Jesus was not condemning anyone who criticizes abuse of power, the teaching of false doctrine or exhorts against living in sin. We are in fact commanded to rebuke and expel the wayward brother in some circumstances.
Bruxy was my "professor " at the University of Waterloo...and after a 1 year push of the university for students to sign up for his upcoming course- the course started and to everyone's surprise- Bruxy taught the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and that homosexuality was actually a sin - as says the Word of God. He proved this with Scripture. People were shocked and mouths were open. Suddenly the tune changed at UofW - and he became quickly hated by staff and students alike. He wasnt as "loose" as was hoped for... despite his weaknesses that are news acclaimed- I believe he does love the Lord Jesus Christ.. I'm just saying...maybe we could show Bruxy the same grace we've been given from Jesus? Just a thought...we all far short...is that not correct?
The big question is: does he *always say these things*? On that count, he's disqualified as a pastor and a heretic by doctrine.
Dude, at 23:55 you respond to Bruxy's teaching but your response does not address the issues and you straw man Bruxy's position. Why not do better? This is a real issue so foundational to christian teaching and it doesnt seem to make sense to a lot of people.
According to penal substitution, Jesus was substituted to satisfy a law which would have all sinners in hell. So how is the ascension possible? I mean why isnt Jesus in hell substituting for the sinners. If god can somehow save the substitute from eternal damnation then why cant he save sinners without substitute, put another way, who is substituting for Jesus?
Jesus is the Word of God made flesh Homoousios to Patri.
so you get a basic idea, cool.
@@GreatPlanet-n7n Jesus isn't an idea.
he was a man not God, GODs SON@@bilbobaggins4403
I don't attend either of these churches, but have listened to Bruxy speak, and listened to this lecture. This lecture was scarily void of not only logical argument, but also void of support from scripture. It was essentially a very subjective opinion piece. The majority of the points were "here's what Bruxy said, and that's wrong". As radical as Bruxy is, I'll give him this; his points are always scripture based, even his comments about "scripture". I found this entire presentation from Eric to be extremely close minded and stuck in the very "religious" overtones that Bruxy has spoken out agains. It also had a few unnecessary personal "shots" that really undermine the integrity of the whole thing.
The speakers distain is palpable from the beginning. I think he makes a mistake. In a time when churches are closing everywhere, Bruxy's teaching was growing churches. . . There is clearly a need the church is failing to meet in peoples life and to tell people that church is failing because the people are wrong is absurd. If Bruxy is wrong then still the church needs to self examine because the growth of the meeting house proves people's desire and hunger. Why is the church failing?
There is nothing wrong with Bruxy’s Theology. Yes there is a ton of repentance and restoration needed but anabaptist theology makes more sense than anything else
Listening to your judgmental, critical and actually nasty comments I can honestly say it saddens me to think that you are a speaker at a Christian school destroying another Christian brother regardless of your opinion. I think perhaps you would do better at studying the sermon on the mound and Jesus teachings. Bruxy is but a man who loves God and is a sinners as we all are, so if you are with out sin then YOU CAN CAST THE FIRST STONE if not perhaps you should look inward before you trash others.
a Christian sister who loves Bruxy and loves you too
No one is giving bruxy the death penalty. If you conflate criticism of character and ideas-with murder, then did Jesus murder the pharisees by condemning their corruption? It is far from love to make excuses for those who use their power to sexually exploit parishioners. He made many theological errors he chose not to correct when confronted. Much is expected of teachers. And if you oppose judgements which are coming from the Lord-it is not your brothers you oppose, but their King.
The rot lies in 3 things: 1. cult of personality following a pastor, no matter how gifted. The cult of personality is only found in Jesus. 2. Complete lack of structural accountability ; 3. Weaponizing teachings i.e, forgiveness. Why can't we just forgive? Forgiveness, yes, but it doesn't necessarily mean welcome back. This man now says, "This is my Therapy" (the internet? His website?) and I'm a mess. We need to see the deep problem with the internet being his therapy and we need to accept and believe him when he says he's a mess. He needs help and replatforming him to do the same thing is not helping anyone, least of all Bruxy Cavey.