Final scene from West Wing's season 5 episode "The Stormy Present", one of the better post-Aaron Sorkin West Wing episodes, who left the show in the end of season 4 due to differences with the higher ups at NBC.
It's weird how now when something related to the white house and the word stormy are on the same sentence my mind instant makes one very specific connection
I've travelled to 41 states, much of Canada, and D.C. I've been to the foot of Mt. McKinley, Grand Coulee Dam, Pike's Peak, the Grand Canyon, Gettysburg, the White House, Cape Canaveral, Mt. Rushmore, Pearl Harbor, and so many of our major cities. Of all the things I've ever seen in my nearly seven decades, the Lincoln Memorial is clearly the most awe inspiring. If you ever have the chance, you must see it. His statue is so life like, I swear I thought I heard him speak to me.
I first saw it walking along the reflecting pool just after dusk, walking up it's steps. I was so awestruck I committed to memorizing the Gettysburg address from the words inscribed on the memorial walls. I've had it at the tip of my tongue since that day.
Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address edged and inscribed into the walls of the Lincoln Memorial remains both an inspirational and a compassionate address, for not only those Americans, who died on both sides; but also, the living to remember the carnage, and instead, to envision the future. Lincoln remains among our better angels, and was far ahead of his times.
When I worked for the United Mineworkers as an intern in 1987 sometimes after work I would walk to the Lincoln Memorial, climb the steps, and sit for an hour, just taking in a beautiful evening in Washington, and thinking about what Abraham Lincoln meant to his country.
@@dawntraveler42 Well, I was there during the day so I didn't have the chance to see it at night. My father took me on a trip to D.C. when I was about 10 years old. The Vietnam Memorial hadn't been built yet, so I'll have to take your word on that one!
I’ve told so many people and said it so many times…if you are into history, or just into being American, go. Go visit Washington, D.C. Take your kids. You will quite simply have the time of your life. It’s one thing to get the Preamble and the Declaration, The Bill of Rights, and Patrick Henry’s amazing speech, as things you have to memorize in school, but I can tell you, standing in front of them is chilling. Plus, especially if you have a young family, much of what you want to see is completely free. The National Archive, The Smithsonian buildings…all free.
"Men seek to douse the flame, douse the ideal, to return to a different age entirely, to return to the age from which our forefathers fled. Fundamentalism is a vision, an idea s rigid as democracy is flexible and we cannot let it overcome what we have worked so hard to earn. Jed - Go see Lincoln and listen. Owen Lassiter"
That has never been more true than ever today. If we forget or erase our past because it hurts someone or offends someone then how do we learn from that to become a better nation. To attack symbols of what people believe are offensive is truthfully counter to what they are trying to change. Racism and hate is taught from generation to generation since the dawn of time. To stem the tied we must as a people change. Not by attacking monuments, flags, or names of those from our past. But by challenging the ideals of hatred by peacefully standing up the "bully." We have become so oversensitized that every action gets demonized. We can not give away our freedoms to appease others. For every right we surrender, our freedom slowly dies. When everyone comes to the table with an open mind and acceptance of everyone's differences (beliefs, ideals, etc.) then we can work toward a solution. I do not believe any race truthfully has any "privilege" as a lot of others believe. The fact our nation has made strides towards change since the Civil War. From the Emancipation Proclamation to the Civil Rights Act of 1968, we have made strides. The sad thing is what started with a unified condemnation of a police officer willfully murdering a handcuffed African American man on the ground turned into attacks against almost everything you can think of. From Statues of Confederate Officials, to flags from our history, to names of those who have been dead for at least a century. I don't understand what all that has to do with anything involving the death of that poor African American man in Minnesota. We must learn from those events in history as hard it is to swallow. If we don't learn from it and we brush it away never to be talked of again, we will be doomed to repeat it. Look at our country now. We have regressed into the 1930's without realizing it. Sky high unemployment, a volatile stock market that had losses that mimic the crashes of our past, uncontrollable government debt, and we have let our government get away with slacking on the Job. But now, we can learn from the mistakes of our past and find a course to correct it. The same goes with how we deal with race relations in our nation. Learn from our mistakes to make our nation better. The is no segregation anywhere in the United States. Everyone has the same opportunity for an education and to succeed unlike a lot of others countries. We can speak, worship, and live freely without fear of government retaliation. But unless we all do not yield these fundamentals of which our forefathers fought, bled, and died for to others or the government, we are doomed to lose them. I guess what I'm trying to say is. If you want change you have to accept that it will take time. You must keep your expectations at a realistic level as well. But change the behaviors by teaching others and face the haters with kindness and mercy as Dr King would have. Remember, for everything you destroy, you trample on all the good Dr. King and others like him have done to change this nation for the better. May we all find peace and learn to live and love each other as Dr. King and teachings of every faith has taught us.
@@philipwhiuk are you saying that defying our past will change things? We can not defy the past because it has already happened. We can learn from it and change. But violence and destruction doesn't resolve anything. It's foolish to defy the past because it is impossible. We can't ignore our short comings, failures, and "black-eyes." We learn from them and become better people. Unfortunately to defy the past as you say ignores the millions of dead Union Soldiers that fought the South in the Civil War that resulted in the end of slavery, ignores the 14th Amendment (equal protection under the law), Brown V. Board of Education, the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and and 1968, Affirmative Action, and I can go on and on. So defying our history means spitting on the progress we have made so far and the lives lost making those changes possible. If those who want change are willing to peacefully fight for it with destroying property of hurting people then they will achieve there goal or at least a seat at the table. But to use violence against others will alienate any cause. The Black Panthers didn't get the government to create the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968, Dr King did with his peaceful demonstrations and his calls for change that resonated with everyone. So defying the past prevents us from moving forward. No one's hands in the history of the world are clean, no race can say we're are completely peaceful or don't live with any hate in their hearts. We all have crosses to bear and all have committed sins in our lives. But we learn from them and moved on in a positive way. The same applies here. Stop the violence and keep it peaceful. Fight to change the behaviors and educate others. Only then will they achieve a reasonable solution to their problems. Even condeming the past doesn't change it. That's why we must learn from it and change.
@@ericburns5359 Those statues in the south that were put up during reconstruction onwards to the civil rights era (stone mountain wasn't done until the 70's) were & are weapons to be pointed at a 'certain' segment of the american population. If that 'certain' population DOESN"T WANT those weapons pointed at them anymore, I think they have a moral duty & right to bring them down.
@@jaysonpida5379 so when does the "cleansing of our true history" ends? To deny history we will be doomed to repeat it. My point is you're attacking the dead and not focusing on the issue. The right thing to do is teaching everyone the nasty side of our history and show how that it made us change. Just because it's "popular" doesn't mean it's right. What is to stop others from taking the statues of civil rights he's down because it offens someone. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Expression actually is protected under the constitution. If you say something I don't agree with I will debate you on the subject but respect you difference of opinion. If you don't support anyone groups ideas you're deemed a bigot or racist without debate or a fair exchange of ideas. It's easy to attack the dead and the past but not engage in real debate to discuss solutions. Now there are calls to take down any monuments of Washington and Jefferson. Why? For what reason? When we teach our children to be good, strong, level headed, good stewards to their fellow human beings we can honestly move forward. No one on either side of the issue wants to negotiate so no progress can be made. The sad thing is that our children will suffer the most when the dust clears. Because in a democracy we debate the issues and work to a consensus to resolve our issues. Burying our dark past from future generations is a crime that will threaten our future generations. It's easy to attack the dead, statues, and history, but to debate and negotiate a solution to the problems that is reasonable and fair that is hard and takes guts. So the people who stand up and show up to fight for sensible change with non-violent resistance will get the greatest results, while those choose the path of violence lose the day. MLK knew that progress took time and patience, and his hard work and non-violent percerfierence won the fight. Take one the living issues with the living law makers.
This is the only TWW episode where two fictional former Presidents were portrayed or referenced. One was Owen Lassiter, a Reagan-like two term conservative Republican and the other was D. Wire Newman (played by James Cromwell), a Carter-like one term liberal Democrat. The most recent RL President mentioned was Reagan, albeit fleetingly. A character mentioned flying out of Reagan National Airport.
Given that TWW's elections are two years off our cycle, the headcanon explanation is that instead of Ford assuming the presidency after Nixon's resignation, there was an election in 1974, and Reagan almost certainly had to have won it and served only one term (perhaps his reputation as anti-Nixon helped him?) Lassiter serves two terms, getting elected in 1978 and 1982 (although why he's running in 1978 and Reagan isn't is confusing), Newman wins in 1986 and serves a single term, then an unknown two-term Republican, then Bartlet.
@Brian Smith Actually, the most popularly accepted reason for the switch was Reagan having a stroke in the summer of 1985 and being rendered comatose. The prospect of having Bush be acting president for over three years, with no way for Reagan to leave (can't resign and can't be impeached because he can't defend himself at trial) the Congress calls an election in 1986. Newman serves 1987 to 1991 with Lassiter doing two terms before Bartlet. If you ever get the chance, check out this timeline because the writers have done an amazing job of continuing the story.
*To consult with Lincoln and 'Think as he would think' is the answer to virtually any question in governing America because no President has ever faced the challenges he faced and overcame them all*
Most of the Lasiter letter comes almost word for word from the final scene of Jacob Bronowski's 1973 BBC series "The Ascent of Man" episode 11. In that scene Bronowski, a Polish Jew whose family emigrated to the UK before the war, wades into the pond at Auschwitz, reaches in and grabs a handful of ashes. "We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to touch people." Really powerful stuff. It's on TH-cam but it won't let me put the link in.
I was 24 years old when I learned about Bronowski’s , “Ascent of Man.” Let’s say I’m a bit past that age now yet I am still transfixed by his work. With all the tricks that television delivers in this modern age you won’t find any more powerful presentation then this episode. A powerful read as well.
Why The Ascent of Man is not required viewing and watching in all schools around the world in all languages , I will never know . We should have been binge watching it all through the shut down .
@@bigbob1699 I watch it twice a year. I have it permanently ripped from the BBC DVD onto my hard drive. It is a work of genius from a man who couldn’t speak a word of English when he arrived in England but who was obsessed with the language and its power to punch through and deliver ideas and information with a ruthless finality.
This is one of the better episodes from this (the worst) season of the west wing. This is also the episode where Toby sings the MASH theme (suicide is painless).
crimdell As an Brit, there are three US places on my bucket list: the Lincoln Memorial; the Jefferson Memorial; and the actual tomb of Lincoln himself.
Add Arlington National Cemetery to your list. The day before you go, log on to their website and find the schedule of burials. Look for the highest ranking officer and plan your visit so that you stand off at a distance and watch the procession and ceremony. Higher ranks will have the horse drawn caisson, full regiment and band, and the riderless horse with boots turned backward in the stirrups. It's among the most honorable things you will ever witness.
crimdell Nice idea, and I will ... I actually saw a TH-cam video of a funeral of a Major, with everything you described, plus the folding of the flag ... it was one of the most moving things I ever saw ... so yes, Arlington is now on my bucket list ... As I am from England, and specifically London, we have our own Tomb of the Unknown Soldier; he lies in rest in Westminster Cathedral, and as he died during WWI, which ended 100 years ago next year, on the 11th November 1918, I feel honoured bound to pay my respects ... Likewise, I should visit the American counterpart ... seeing the change of the Tomb Guard is ... breathtaking ... The fact that come sun, rain, hail, or snow, the men and women of the Tomb Guard stand watch is mindblowing ... from what I heard that, second only to joining Delta, DevGru, and other Tier 1 teams, nothing is as hard as being selected as a Tomb Guard, which once earned, like a Ranger, you are entitled to wear that shoulder-flash until you retire from service ... must be a great honour to serve as a Tomb Guard, and hence something I would love to see in person ...
I got the idea after the fact, so to speak. I had a friend who was a WWII war hero. His last rank was LtCol and he was honored this way. The family invited me to attend. In learning where to go and at what time, I was instructed to use the ANC website. That was when I recognized that anyone could do it so I tell people about it every chance I get.
+crimdell It must have been amazing to be have been able to call him your friend, and a greater honour yet to attend his burial. I am sorry for your loss, but glad you were able to make your final respects. Thank you for your information; it is very useful to know that the public can also pay respects to the fallen.
@MegaObserver1 During the episode, it was made quite clear that former President Lassiter, started behaving quite "strangely" after leaving office. Recreating the Oval Office is in his home residence for one, visiting every battleground where US soldiers had fought, collecting soil samples from each etc.
*_Ye know Bill Clinton also has or had a room designed with the Oval office in mind. Hillary would sit in the chair behind the desk & i guess it energized her for the fight ahead & the office she was owed. I guess Americans refused to give her what she was entitled too. Damn Walmart folk's, how dare they take from somebody what's theirs & give it to someone with no political legacy & no pedigree in his breeding..It baffles the mind how these gun toting farmers think.._*
It would be tempting though - to recreate the space where one had felt most vital & significant. And to spend one’s last days and moments wrapped in the memories of that space.
After the Aaron Sorkin departure,the show lost a lot of the great writing. My interest waived. It was still a good show but more normal .NBC fucked up.
He was turning in scripts late, cast and crew were showing up to shoot and nothing was written. There were plenty of errors when Sorkin was writing too.
Aaron Sorkin left TWW after the end of season 4, when NBC took away his position as "showrunner". They wanted him to stay as a producer and writer, but he said "no". John Wells, who's production company produced the show, became the de facto "showrunner".
Actually I just saw an interview with Wells yesterday; he said that NBC wanted Sorkin to write faster and stop edging out a character he didn't want to write for anymore (reputedly Sam Seaborn, because he didn't get along with Rob Lowe). According to Wells, Sorkin refused because he doesn't work according to dictates, his process takes as long as it takes, and NBC took that as a resignation.
The Eyes Of Lincoln by Walt Mason (I am told) Sad eyes that were patient and tender, Sad eyes that were steadfast and true, And warm with the unchanging splendor Of courage no ills could subdue! Eyes dark with the dread of the morrow, And woe for the day that was gone, The sleepless companions of sorrow, The watchers that witnessed the dawn. Eyes tired from the clamor and goading And dim from the stress of the years, And hallowed by pain and foreboding And strained by repression of tears. Sad eyes that were wearied and blighted By visions of sieges and wars Now watch o'er a country united From the luminous slopes of the stars! Now I at least am off to find if Walt Mason existed. The man allegedly also wrote about The Welcome Man and late author married an American woman, Jeffery Farnol too. Yes Senator Mitch and Senator Lindsey. Where pansies pan and Zephyrs zeph and I have a peachinero of a hand. How about ewe?. Biographical Sketch by Harold Armitage.
The Stormy ******s Present? Best not. What? Abraham Lincoln in a huge photo at a London Airport. We stared at one another for quite a time. Nothing resolved yet, eh? Over a decade ago. Don't what me.
I think Lincoln would have been flattered and humbled by his memorial, but I think also troubled by it and what it represented. I think, though, that he would have accepted it in the end, accepted the need for the ideal that it represented, rather than the man. It might not be a bad thing for every President to visit it and to listen. As many Americans died during his Presidency as in both World Wars combined.
We keep trying to turn people into gods and the truth is nobody has all the answers and everybody makes lots of mistakes and all the most splendid memorials on the face of the planet aren't going to change that.
@TimThomason (continued) Fundamentalism is a vision, an ideal as rigid as democracy is flexible and we cannot let it overcome what we have worked so hard to learn. Jed- Go see Lincoln and listen. Owen Lassiter
I don't think this is a particularly good episode, even if it's in the top half of season 5, but man is it a good reminder of how amazing the Lincoln Memorial looks at night. Kinda nice of a show to set itself among so many heavily symbolic, majestic, dramatic crutches just lying around waiting to be used :P
I'm a bit disturbed at the end. They do a pretty good pan away from the Lincoln Memorial, showing President Bartlet standing alone in front of Lincoln's statue. That's all fine and well, but there's no Secret Service or police protection or anything in sight. Surely, they'd keep close by when he's out in the open like that.
@@ReelMeurik President Newman was more of a duplicate of President Carter with President Lassiter performing that role for President Reagan. In the West Wing universe, 1987 to 1999 is more or less a repeat of 1977 to 1989.
@stevertr This could be caused by Lassiter's admiration of Lincoln. Lassiter even had a recreation of the Oval Office made in his home. He had gathered dirt from various battlefields where american soldiers had fought (including Gettysburg). But a very cool observation nonetheless :)
It would be brilliant to have a president and White House staff that came remotely close to this highly fictionalised version. Sadly, reality is far more disappointing than it should be.
Any President who visited the Lincoln Memorial to "listen", wouldn't hear a thing but cameras clicking. The other party and media would be questioning why visit the Lincoln Memorial and the meaning "to listen"? ;-)
The letter is very similar to that voiced by Jacob Bronowski's brilliant the last segment of the Ascent of Man th-cam.com/video/ltjI3BXKBgY/w-d-xo.html
I asked my mother a few years back,if we'd visited DC/ the Lincoln Memorial, when I was a child, she said yes, and wondered why I asked.I had such a vivid memory of looking up at that giant,and didn't know if it was real,or from seeing scenes in movies or on TV.
It’s an ex-President’s house. They probably already know how secure it is, and where to secure it. They are more lax when the President is in the residence.
It's weird how now when something related to the white house and the word stormy are on the same sentence my mind instant makes one very specific connection
I agree. There's also Stormy Daniels.
@DirkxBart pretty sure that's what @spiros7m meant
You do know that in a very dignified and polite way, Mrs. Lassiter was chewing Jed's arse.
Chewing him out for what?
@@airdriver ignoring her husband, a former President. He'd been trying to contact Jed repeatedly and Jed rarely spoke to him
I've travelled to 41 states, much of Canada, and D.C. I've been to the foot of Mt. McKinley, Grand Coulee Dam, Pike's Peak, the Grand Canyon, Gettysburg, the White House, Cape Canaveral, Mt. Rushmore, Pearl Harbor, and so many of our major cities. Of all the things I've ever seen in my nearly seven decades, the Lincoln Memorial is clearly the most awe inspiring. If you ever have the chance, you must see it. His statue is so life like, I swear I thought I heard him speak to me.
I was 15 when I saw the Lincoln Memorial. I still remember looking at him & thinking how his voice changed our world. I could hear too.
I've been to DC twice. Still didn't get to see everything I wanted to. Lincoln Memorial.Arlington. The WALL. Words escape me.
I HD tears in my eyes standing in front of it
I first saw it walking along the reflecting pool just after dusk, walking up it's steps. I was so awestruck I committed to memorizing the Gettysburg address from the words inscribed on the memorial walls.
I've had it at the tip of my tongue since that day.
Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address edged and inscribed into the walls of the Lincoln Memorial remains both an inspirational and a compassionate address, for not only those Americans, who died on both sides; but also, the living to remember the carnage, and instead, to envision the future. Lincoln remains among our better angels, and was far ahead of his times.
When I worked for the United Mineworkers as an intern in 1987 sometimes after work I would walk to the Lincoln Memorial, climb the steps, and sit for an hour, just taking in a beautiful evening in Washington, and thinking about what Abraham Lincoln meant to his country.
I've been there too. There is just something about being there. A feeling perhaps? A presence? Its rather awe inspiring, isn't it?
@@retroguy9494 I believe it's the closest thing America has to a temple.
@@retroguy9494 Especially at night. Same with the Viet-Nam memorial too.
@@dawntraveler42 Well, I was there during the day so I didn't have the chance to see it at night. My father took me on a trip to D.C. when I was about 10 years old.
The Vietnam Memorial hadn't been built yet, so I'll have to take your word on that one!
I’ve told so many people and said it so many times…if you are into history, or just into being American, go. Go visit Washington, D.C. Take your kids. You will quite simply have the time of your life. It’s one thing to get the Preamble and the Declaration, The Bill of Rights, and Patrick Henry’s amazing speech, as things you have to memorize in school, but I can tell you, standing in front of them is chilling. Plus, especially if you have a young family, much of what you want to see is completely free. The National Archive, The Smithsonian buildings…all free.
"Men seek to douse the flame, douse the ideal, to return to a different age entirely, to return to the age from which our forefathers fled.
Fundamentalism is a vision, an idea s rigid as democracy is flexible and we cannot let it overcome what we have worked so hard to earn.
Jed - Go see Lincoln and listen.
Owen Lassiter"
That has never been more true than ever today. If we forget or erase our past because it hurts someone or offends someone then how do we learn from that to become a better nation.
To attack symbols of what people believe are offensive is truthfully counter to what they are trying to change. Racism and hate is taught from generation to generation since the dawn of time. To stem the tied we must as a people change. Not by attacking monuments, flags, or names of those from our past. But by challenging the ideals of hatred by peacefully standing up the "bully." We have become so oversensitized that every action gets demonized. We can not give away our freedoms to appease others. For every right we surrender, our freedom slowly dies.
When everyone comes to the table with an open mind and acceptance of everyone's differences (beliefs, ideals, etc.) then we can work toward a solution. I do not believe any race truthfully has any "privilege" as a lot of others believe. The fact our nation has made strides towards change since the Civil War. From the Emancipation Proclamation to the Civil Rights Act of 1968, we have made strides. The sad thing is what started with a unified condemnation of a police officer willfully murdering a handcuffed African American man on the ground turned into attacks against almost everything you can think of. From Statues of Confederate Officials, to flags from our history, to names of those who have been dead for at least a century. I don't understand what all that has to do with anything involving the death of that poor African American man in Minnesota.
We must learn from those events in history as hard it is to swallow. If we don't learn from it and we brush it away never to be talked of again, we will be doomed to repeat it. Look at our country now. We have regressed into the 1930's without realizing it. Sky high unemployment, a volatile stock market that had losses that mimic the crashes of our past, uncontrollable government debt, and we have let our government get away with slacking on the Job. But now, we can learn from the mistakes of our past and find a course to correct it. The same goes with how we deal with race relations in our nation. Learn from our mistakes to make our nation better.
The is no segregation anywhere in the United States. Everyone has the same opportunity for an education and to succeed unlike a lot of others countries. We can speak, worship, and live freely without fear of government retaliation. But unless we all do not yield these fundamentals of which our forefathers fought, bled, and died for to others or the government, we are doomed to lose them.
I guess what I'm trying to say is. If you want change you have to accept that it will take time. You must keep your expectations at a realistic level as well. But change the behaviors by teaching others and face the haters with kindness and mercy as Dr King would have. Remember, for everything you destroy, you trample on all the good Dr. King and others like him have done to change this nation for the better.
May we all find peace and learn to live and love each other as Dr. King and teachings of every faith has taught us.
@@ericburns5359 There's a difference between remembering your past and deifying it.
@@philipwhiuk are you saying that defying our past will change things? We can not defy the past because it has already happened. We can learn from it and change. But violence and destruction doesn't resolve anything. It's foolish to defy the past because it is impossible. We can't ignore our short comings, failures, and "black-eyes." We learn from them and become better people. Unfortunately to defy the past as you say ignores the millions of dead Union Soldiers that fought the South in the Civil War that resulted in the end of slavery, ignores the 14th Amendment (equal protection under the law), Brown V. Board of Education, the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and and 1968, Affirmative Action, and I can go on and on. So defying our history means spitting on the progress we have made so far and the lives lost making those changes possible. If those who want change are willing to peacefully fight for it with destroying property of hurting people then they will achieve there goal or at least a seat at the table. But to use violence against others will alienate any cause. The Black Panthers didn't get the government to create the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968, Dr King did with his peaceful demonstrations and his calls for change that resonated with everyone. So defying the past prevents us from moving forward. No one's hands in the history of the world are clean, no race can say we're are completely peaceful or don't live with any hate in their hearts. We all have crosses to bear and all have committed sins in our lives. But we learn from them and moved on in a positive way. The same applies here. Stop the violence and keep it peaceful. Fight to change the behaviors and educate others. Only then will they achieve a reasonable solution to their problems. Even condeming the past doesn't change it. That's why we must learn from it and change.
@@ericburns5359 Those statues in the south that were put up during reconstruction onwards to the civil rights era (stone mountain wasn't done until the 70's) were & are weapons to be pointed at a 'certain' segment of the american population. If that 'certain' population DOESN"T WANT those weapons pointed at them anymore, I think they have a moral duty & right to bring them down.
@@jaysonpida5379 so when does the "cleansing of our true history" ends? To deny history we will be doomed to repeat it. My point is you're attacking the dead and not focusing on the issue. The right thing to do is teaching everyone the nasty side of our history and show how that it made us change. Just because it's "popular" doesn't mean it's right. What is to stop others from taking the statues of civil rights he's down because it offens someone. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Expression actually is protected under the constitution. If you say something I don't agree with I will debate you on the subject but respect you difference of opinion. If you don't support anyone groups ideas you're deemed a bigot or racist without debate or a fair exchange of ideas. It's easy to attack the dead and the past but not engage in real debate to discuss solutions. Now there are calls to take down any monuments of Washington and Jefferson. Why? For what reason? When we teach our children to be good, strong, level headed, good stewards to their fellow human beings we can honestly move forward. No one on either side of the issue wants to negotiate so no progress can be made. The sad thing is that our children will suffer the most when the dust clears. Because in a democracy we debate the issues and work to a consensus to resolve our issues. Burying our dark past from future generations is a crime that will threaten our future generations. It's easy to attack the dead, statues, and history, but to debate and negotiate a solution to the problems that is reasonable and fair that is hard and takes guts. So the people who stand up and show up to fight for sensible change with non-violent resistance will get the greatest results, while those choose the path of violence lose the day. MLK knew that progress took time and patience, and his hard work and non-violent percerfierence won the fight. Take one the living issues with the living law makers.
This was Diana Douglas, ex-wife of Kirk and mother of Michael.
This was a good show for many years.....Very nice...
I actually don't recall this scene. I thought I remembered them all.
This is the only TWW episode where two fictional former Presidents were portrayed or referenced. One was Owen Lassiter, a Reagan-like two term conservative Republican and the other was D. Wire Newman (played by James Cromwell), a Carter-like one term liberal Democrat. The most recent RL President mentioned was Reagan, albeit fleetingly. A character mentioned flying out of Reagan National Airport.
But maybe in TWW universe, the airport was only named after the actor :)
Isn't Glen Walken (John Goodman) also in this episode?
Yes. All former living Presidents (even temporary ones such as Glen-Allen Walken) were present for the funeral.
Given that TWW's elections are two years off our cycle, the headcanon explanation is that instead of Ford assuming the presidency after Nixon's resignation, there was an election in 1974, and Reagan almost certainly had to have won it and served only one term (perhaps his reputation as anti-Nixon helped him?) Lassiter serves two terms, getting elected in 1978 and 1982 (although why he's running in 1978 and Reagan isn't is confusing), Newman wins in 1986 and serves a single term, then an unknown two-term Republican, then Bartlet.
@Brian Smith Actually, the most popularly accepted reason for the switch was Reagan having a stroke in the summer of 1985 and being rendered comatose. The prospect of having Bush be acting president for over three years, with no way for Reagan to leave (can't resign and can't be impeached because he can't defend himself at trial) the Congress calls an election in 1986. Newman serves 1987 to 1991 with Lassiter doing two terms before Bartlet.
If you ever get the chance, check out this timeline because the writers have done an amazing job of continuing the story.
Simply the best and emotional piece of art.
*To consult with Lincoln and 'Think as he would think' is the answer to virtually any question in governing America because no President has ever faced the challenges he faced and overcame them all*
Revisionist folderol...
Most of the Lasiter letter comes almost word for word from the final scene of Jacob Bronowski's 1973 BBC series "The Ascent of Man" episode 11. In that scene Bronowski, a Polish Jew whose family emigrated to the UK before the war, wades into the pond at Auschwitz, reaches in and grabs a handful of ashes. "We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to touch people." Really powerful stuff. It's on TH-cam but it won't let me put the link in.
I was 24 years old when I learned about Bronowski’s , “Ascent of Man.” Let’s say I’m a bit past that age now yet I am still transfixed by his work. With all the tricks that television delivers in this modern age you won’t find any more powerful presentation then this episode. A powerful read as well.
Why The Ascent of Man is not required viewing and watching in all schools around the world in all languages , I will never know . We should have been binge watching it all through the shut down .
@@bigbob1699 I watch it twice a year. I have it permanently ripped from the BBC DVD onto my hard drive. It is a work of genius from a man who couldn’t speak a word of English when he arrived in England but who was obsessed with the language and its power to punch through and deliver ideas and information with a ruthless finality.
Bronowski walking into the pond at Auschwitz filled with ashes is powerful beyond description. He passed away a few months later. A great loss.
The Ascent of Man is a powerful documentary. It was required reading at university.
One of the greatest pieces of sculptures on the face of earth made by human hands....
This is one of the better episodes from this (the worst) season of the west wing.
This is also the episode where Toby sings the MASH theme (suicide is painless).
My favorite of all the Washington memorials and monuments.
crimdell As an Brit, there are three US places on my bucket list: the Lincoln Memorial; the Jefferson Memorial; and the actual tomb of Lincoln himself.
Add Arlington National Cemetery to your list. The day before you go, log on to their website and find the schedule of burials. Look for the highest ranking officer and plan your visit so that you stand off at a distance and watch the procession and ceremony. Higher ranks will have the horse drawn caisson, full regiment and band, and the riderless horse with boots turned backward in the stirrups. It's among the most honorable things you will ever witness.
crimdell Nice idea, and I will ...
I actually saw a TH-cam video of a funeral of a Major, with everything you described, plus the folding of the flag ... it was one of the most moving things I ever saw ... so yes, Arlington is now on my bucket list ...
As I am from England, and specifically London, we have our own Tomb of the Unknown Soldier; he lies in rest in Westminster Cathedral, and as he died during WWI, which ended 100 years ago next year, on the 11th November 1918, I feel honoured bound to pay my respects ...
Likewise, I should visit the American counterpart ... seeing the change of the Tomb Guard is ... breathtaking ... The fact that come sun, rain, hail, or snow, the men and women of the Tomb Guard stand watch is mindblowing ... from what I heard that, second only to joining Delta, DevGru, and other Tier 1 teams, nothing is as hard as being selected as a Tomb Guard, which once earned, like a Ranger, you are entitled to wear that shoulder-flash until you retire from service ... must be a great honour to serve as a Tomb Guard, and hence something I would love to see in person ...
I got the idea after the fact, so to speak. I had a friend who was a WWII war hero. His last rank was LtCol and he was honored this way. The family invited me to attend. In learning where to go and at what time, I was instructed to use the ANC website. That was when I recognized that anyone could do it so I tell people about it every chance I get.
+crimdell It must have been amazing to be have been able to call him your friend, and a greater honour yet to attend his burial. I am sorry for your loss, but glad you were able to make your final respects.
Thank you for your information; it is very useful to know that the public can also pay respects to the fallen.
@MegaObserver1 During the episode, it was made quite clear that former President Lassiter, started behaving quite "strangely" after leaving office. Recreating the Oval Office is in his home residence for one, visiting every battleground where US soldiers had fought, collecting soil samples from each etc.
*_Ye know Bill Clinton also has or had a room designed with the Oval office in mind. Hillary would sit in the chair behind the desk & i guess it energized her for the fight ahead & the office she was owed. I guess Americans refused to give her what she was entitled too. Damn Walmart folk's, how dare they take from somebody what's theirs & give it to someone with no political legacy & no pedigree in his breeding..It baffles the mind how these gun toting farmers think.._*
@@KyleInOklahoma no one is entitled to public office, at any level.
That is only done in countries with kings or dictators.
@@georgecoffey1053 Yes sir. I totally agree.
@@avae5343 If you want to quote "The Wizard Of Id:, do it properly. "The peasants are revolting."
It would be tempting though - to recreate the space where one had felt most vital & significant. And to spend one’s last days and moments wrapped in the memories of that space.
Only two words can even come close to describing the sheer gravitas of this scene: Booga Booga.
Very good...I miss this show a lot...
Most underrated and prophetic episode in the series. #GreatActing
After the Aaron Sorkin departure,the show lost a lot of the great writing. My interest waived. It was still a good show but more normal .NBC fucked up.
Aaron Sorkin fucked up, or sucked up (his nose).
He was turning in scripts late, cast and crew were showing up to shoot and nothing was written. There were plenty of errors when Sorkin was writing too.
Aaron Sorkin left TWW after the end of season 4, when NBC took away his position as "showrunner". They wanted him to stay as a producer and writer, but he said "no". John Wells, who's production company produced the show, became the de facto "showrunner".
6th ~! 7jjh
Actually I just saw an interview with Wells yesterday; he said that NBC wanted Sorkin to write faster and stop edging out a character he didn't want to write for anymore (reputedly Sam Seaborn, because he didn't get along with Rob Lowe). According to Wells, Sorkin refused because he doesn't work according to dictates, his process takes as long as it takes, and NBC took that as a resignation.
The Eyes Of Lincoln by Walt Mason (I am told)
Sad eyes that were patient and tender,
Sad eyes that were steadfast and true,
And warm with the unchanging splendor
Of courage no ills could subdue!
Eyes dark with the dread of the morrow,
And woe for the day that was gone,
The sleepless companions of sorrow,
The watchers that witnessed the dawn.
Eyes tired from the clamor and goading
And dim from the stress of the years,
And hallowed by pain and foreboding
And strained by repression of tears.
Sad eyes that were wearied and blighted
By visions of sieges and wars
Now watch o'er a country united
From the luminous slopes of the stars!
Now I at least am off to find if Walt Mason existed. The man allegedly also wrote about The Welcome Man and late author married an American woman, Jeffery Farnol too. Yes Senator Mitch and Senator Lindsey. Where pansies pan and Zephyrs zeph and I have a peachinero of a hand.
How about ewe?. Biographical Sketch by Harold Armitage.
The Stormy ******s Present? Best not. What? Abraham Lincoln in a huge photo at a London Airport. We stared at one another for quite a time. Nothing resolved yet, eh? Over a decade ago. Don't what me.
I think Lincoln would have been flattered and humbled by his memorial, but I think also troubled by it and what it represented. I think, though, that he would have accepted it in the end, accepted the need for the ideal that it represented, rather than the man. It might not be a bad thing for every President to visit it and to listen. As many Americans died during his Presidency as in both World Wars combined.
One of my favorite shows
No better place for thinking than to see President Lincoln and be in his presence.
I can barely think on a local scale. Part of why I'm not President.
I dream of a better America.
We keep trying to turn people into gods and the truth is nobody has all the answers and everybody makes lots of mistakes and all the most splendid memorials on the face of the planet aren't going to change that.
I wish he could have been our president. Not now perhaps, but I believe we would be a better Country if we had him in our history.
@TimThomason (continued)
Fundamentalism is a vision, an ideal as rigid as democracy is flexible and we
cannot let it overcome what we have worked so hard to learn.
Jed- Go see Lincoln and listen.
Owen Lassiter
What does he say after "And the leaders of the protest?"
He’s saying one of the names of the leaders
I don't think this is a particularly good episode, even if it's in the top half of season 5, but man is it a good reminder of how amazing the Lincoln Memorial looks at night.
Kinda nice of a show to set itself among so many heavily symbolic, majestic, dramatic crutches just lying around waiting to be used :P
Quote from Jacob Bronowski.
I'm a bit disturbed at the end. They do a pretty good pan away from the Lincoln Memorial, showing President Bartlet standing alone in front of Lincoln's statue. That's all fine and well, but there's no Secret Service or police protection or anything in sight. Surely, they'd keep close by when he's out in the open like that.
It's a TV show.
They aren't any use, given no crowd. If the President wanted them out of the way, they might be out of the shot.
They’re potentially using a “loose” cordon, a wide perimeter security both maintaining privacy for POTUS and making sure he is protected 😊
@@joelreyes6053 Artistic license; how does it work?
Is Cromwell's role as former POTUS in this episode a reference to Bush41?
While never mentioned, it can be assumed that Cromwell's President was a standin for Bush41. With Bartlet taking the place of Clinton.
@@ReelMeurik President Newman was more of a duplicate of President Carter with President Lassiter performing that role for President Reagan. In the West Wing universe, 1987 to 1999 is more or less a repeat of 1977 to 1989.
@TimThomason
Look at the pillars to both sides, you can see other figures in the scene.
In real life, it would be the Secret Service.
Great scene!
@stevertr This could be caused by Lassiter's admiration of Lincoln. Lassiter even had a recreation of the Oval Office made in his home. He had gathered dirt from various battlefields where american soldiers had fought (including Gettysburg). But a very cool observation nonetheless :)
It would be brilliant to have a president and White House staff that came remotely close to this highly fictionalised version. Sadly, reality is far more disappointing than it should be.
Stormy Daniel present in the West Wing of the White House ...
Papa I love you ❇✨🌟☑🚀
Correction: Sorkin left at the end of season 5.
Richard C Auclair Wrong. News broke that Aaron Sorkin was leaving, on May 2nd 2003. This was 2 episodes before the end of the 4th Season.
Nope. End of season 4. 100%.
Ugh, I thought this was Trump's West Wing. WEST WING ALWAYS KNEW HOW TO PREDICT THE FUTURE.
Any President who visited the Lincoln Memorial to "listen", wouldn't hear a thing but cameras clicking.
The other party and media would be questioning why visit the Lincoln Memorial and the meaning "to listen"? ;-)
😢
I'm surprised that Trump didn't have an oval office built in Mar-a-Lago.
Give him some time. Alternately, give yourself enough time for him to fall as far as you would like to see him.
He tried. He forgot what an oval was though, so it's more of a dunce cap.
The letter is very similar to that voiced by Jacob Bronowski's brilliant the last segment of the Ascent of Man th-cam.com/video/ltjI3BXKBgY/w-d-xo.html
Not a agent in sight....Like that would happen
I asked my mother a few years back,if we'd visited DC/ the Lincoln Memorial, when I was a child, she said yes, and wondered why I asked.I had such a vivid memory of looking up at that giant,and didn't know if it was real,or from seeing scenes in movies or on TV.
It’s an ex-President’s house. They probably already know how secure it is, and where to secure it. They are more lax when the President is in the residence.
@@aceharris1463 I believe tankkiller is referring to the Lincoln Memorial scene
You can always tell a Milford man.
All versus Donald Trump who just boasted that he was the greatest "emancipator" and "President" since Lincoln. Oh brother.