The Deadly Chicago 3-Way (Only 2 Wires)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 เม.ย. 2024
- In this Video I'll show you the Chicago 3-Way. How it's wired, how it works, why they're dangerous and how to stay safe when working around them.
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Video Links here>> California 3-Way - th-cam.com/video/AeXFe5ghmKQ/w-d-xo.html Standard, Dead End and Single poles Switches here>> th-cam.com/video/B6gfI73Tvg8/w-d-xo.html
Retired Electrician, Worked around the Washington DC area and fixed a few of these in older homes. We called them "Lazy Susans." Met my wife on a service call to repair one, I was the third electrician she called, everything was pulled apart for the remodel. First two walked away insisting there was no way that it had worked before. I bet her dinner that I could fix it in 20 minutes (4 gang box of switches). We had Pizza - she paid.
That's a great story my friend.. It pays to be smart.
Great story. Congratulations to you both !
That's probably the most awesome "How we met" story I ever heard
I mainly do low-voltage stuff, but occasionally I'll install smart light switches. Also in the DC area. This old wiring method explains so much...I've seen a handful of switches with this unfamiliar wiring which I had assumed was just improperly installed.
Tripped a breaker when testing a new smart dimmer switch once, and from that point on I no longer touch anything that isn't wired according to modern code. I just tell them to call an electrician.
Another oddity with older homes is the doorbell transformer. I've seen them in some very creative locations. In older homes they're sometimes tucked away behind a random wall somewhere, and the only way to access them is to cut out the drywall.
Love this story, I’ve been an electrician for 45yrs in Washington DC and Lazy Susan or also called Hot and Lazy are extremely common here in almost any non updated house. I know of about a dozen different configurations depending on two or three floor homes.
This was not the video I was looking for when searching "Chicago 3 way", but I watched anyways.
I have seen the video you were looking for. You definitely should seek safety here.
@@clsanchez77 I like to live.... Dangerously.
We bought an old house in 1981 and I, a young guy knowing the rudiments of residential knob and tube, was rewiring a 3-way on our stairs with romex when I discovered a light fixture off but both terminals hot. After calling my father, we tried to draw it out but failed. Then we called my grandfather, a longtime lineman for the regional power company. He drew it out for us and, as I remember, it was just as shown here. I've wired up numerous houses over the years but have never run into it again. Thanks for a great video.
Thank you! Awesome story.. Thanks for sharing.
The light bulb just came on. Pun intended.
My house was built in 33, the upper floor still has some knob and tube until I replace all the plaster and lathe.
I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on with the hallway light. Now I know.
It was 2 wire three way when built, but the automotive mechanic that owned it before me and did the electrical conversion from K&T to lumex replaced one of the switches with a standard 2 way, and disconnected the upstairs switch that was connected to the K&T. Wasn't the only live wire I found hidden behind a drywall patch.
This could not have been explained clearer or better. Nice work!
Thanks so much.. I'll be posting the California 3-way this weekend.
The same circuit was also used in Germany (of course it is also not allowed anymore nowadays). We call it the "Hamburger Wechselschaltung" Which would translate to the "Hamburg three way". I find it funny that you also name that after a city. But here it was also not only done in Hamburg. I remember whitnessing my Grandpa getting an electric shock from one of those things when he was changing a lightbulb which was turned off at the time.
In france we call it the german 3 way "va et vien allemand".
In Hungary some electricians call it takarékváltó kapcsolás which mean cheap alternative switching.
About 15 years ago I ran into something similar and my boss at the time got mad at me for not being able to figure it out and make the repair. I've been through school in both the Navy and an accredited DOL-certified vocational school and now I'm a licensed electrical contractor and I'm still baffled lol. Great explanation through and I guess it's good that I dont understand it because its a dangerous way to wire lighting and receptacle circuits. Great video!!
Heh. See my comment from a minute ago.
With the stuff I've seen in old homes here in Chicago, I'm amazed that half the city isn't on fire.
Thank you..
@@stringlarson1247 Remember, they blamed it on a cow. When in fact, Mrs. O'Leary's Husband had just wired a new light in the barn.
Hey. You're not alone with things like that at times. I do a lot of machine requiring and do most of my own diagrams. I've come across stuff from time to time that just doesn't sink in for quite a while. For myself, all I can do if it's something I need to do is have several things to do it with, including self made videos. Funny, but once I started making the videos, I never needed them on a site. Not for myself nor anyone I was trying to show. Go figure, and much continued success. Sounds like you more than earned it. Thank you for your service to our country!
@@stringlarson1247 Chicago Fire 2 - Electrical wiring boogaloo
Retired electrician. I have run across several of these 3 ways. Usually they don't have power run between the switches. Instead, switch 1 gets power from receptacle 1 and switch 2 gets power from receptacle 2. This worked OKish when we had single phase 2 wire services, but when you upgrade to 3 wire 2 phase electric services, you could have the switches on different phases and send 240 volts to the bulb. I knew this as a farmer's 3 way. I learned about them early in my career and made money fixing them when other guys were confused.
I thought a farmer's 3-way involved a sheep.
@@othername1000I think this method involves goat f*ckery.
I heard that it's two sheep.
@@othername1000 and then of course you've got the Alabama 3-way
Yes that works too as long as the second receptacle is on the same circuit. But as you found out, it's a bit of an issue when upgrading circuitry.
I work in Chicago, I've run into this once every year. It amazes me that this problem is still out there.
It was common a long time ago and is actually all over the country.
I'm amazed that knob n tube wiring is still out there.
Now it's easy to see why cook county and Chicago have some of the strictest electrical codes
Lower Alabama and northern Florida have this problem. Particularly with homes pre 1950. Bubbah usually has a hand in it if you could imagine
I’m a 20 year residential electrician on Long Island. I’ve seen this 3 way twice. Very rare around here.
When I was a kid puzzling out how electrical systems worked (based on my experience of wiring up a train set), this is what I came up with for the 'magic' of three way switches. I thought it's how they all worked until I came across my first standard three-way, which was very confusing to me at the time based on my Chicago assumptions from childhood.
Did the train move in reverse?
In 30 years of doing electric work I've 8:02 only seen this one time in an old knob and tube home we were rewiring. My boss at the time called it a switched neutral 3 way and showed us how it actually worked. Very cool to see you describe it with such great detail.
I've watched a lot of three-way videos, and this was by far the most informative!
Thank you! I have three more coming. The California 3-way this weekend. Stay tuned.
How many of them involved watching your wife?
Wish you’d been my apprenticeship instructor 45yrs ago. Great explanation! 👍🏻
Wow, thanks! I love hearing comments like this. I'll be posting the California 3-way this weekend.
This reminds me of lamp cord replacements. I've seen several with the polarity switched, leaving the screw shell hot all the time, including when the lamp is off. Always good to do a continuity check to make sure the screw shell is connected to the wide blade on the plug.
Modern lamp cord has one identified conductor. The identified conductor is supposed to be the neutral and wired to the shell and the wide blade of the plug.
@@nooneyouknowhere6148 That is correct. But on some cords, especially clear cords, it can be next to impossible to see. Sometimes it's just easier to stick the prongs of your ohm meter on it.
@@michaelallen5505 normally the identified conductor has ridges on it that you can feel.
I was using Bridgeport mill at work, and someone long ago had added a gooseneck lamp to it and bolted it to the machone, but the lamp had a household type brown 2 wire lamp cord and non polarized plug, so the stupid thing could wind up plugged in either way and it ws always being unplugged and plugged back in later if someone needed the outlet and no one was using the mill.
SO I go to use the mill, turned on the lamp which had a metal shade on the bulb, and I went to adjust the lamp's position and the moment I moved it BOOM!! it shorted out! SO my hand was on the metal goose neck and I was leaning over the mill bed a little to reach it, of course the mill bed is bare unpainted steel, but fortunately I wasnt touching it!
I checked the lamp and discovered the plug wasnt even polarized! It had been like that for years and the crappy thin paper used in the lamo sockets back then to separate the metal shell from the rest and cover the terminals became brittle and moving the lamo was all it took.
I re-wired that crappy lamp properly.
We have lamps from the 40's, 50's and 60's. All the plugs have same-size prongs (non-polarized) also really old outlets were also non-polarized, as both slots were the same size. I'm thinking polarized plugs started coming out in the 70's.
First, thank you for your service, fellow Air Force.
Electrician for 40 years, never heard of this dangerous situation.
Thank you! And thanks for your service as well. 🇺🇸🇺🇸
The only reason someone would ever do this, is to add a second switch to a 2-wire system, that was originally intended for a single switch. This is the only way it can be done, without tearing out the walls, to replace the "Romex" with "Triex", to do it right. (I STILL wouldn't do it) Even with that said, each switch needs a neutral and hot, and, a line needs to be run from each switch to the light. If you have to run those lines, I don't see how that's any easier, than to run the 3-conductor "Triex" wire, allowing it to be done to code.
@@vincentrobinette1507 They don't use romex in Chicago though. So that couldnt have been the reason it got it's name.
This is KINDA ingenious in that it makes the XOR operation by inverting the lampholder polarity for the two ON states and double-hotting or double-neutraling it for the OFF states. Back when I studied the topic, this was not even given as an option. We were taught straight off to make the "hallway switch" by wiring hot to one switch, connecting the switches through the travelers, then taking the lamp hot from the other switch. And in a 230V country I can readily see why this was not even an option.
This principle is used in some bidirectional power converters, as well as solid-state on-off controllable AC switches - unlike triacs which you cannot turn off before the next zero crossing. Simple, yet effective.
It's also used for DC reversible speed controllers where it's called an H-Bridge.
H bridge cicuits for DC motor control also, made with pair of relays for stop start and reversing.
Well done! Bravo! I have tanfled with these before and it took me a few hours to figure it out. I have also seen solid CU MC using the metal cladding as the traveler, once. That lit me right up!
As an 11 year old kid, I learned from turn of the (last century) self teaching books. In high school shop my teacher started hollering about codes and rules. I have to see the remaining styles. You do a GREAT job. Switching Neutrals since 1959, my new moniker.
I work on many older homes in Chicago. I am currently (pun intended) ripping into my 1914 home with layers of insanely bad wiring.
I've got one 'circuit' somewhat like this. I've got a degree in EE, and figuring this place out is insane. I've got a Klien ET450 tracer and am shocked (yes, pun) at where someone(s) ran lines over the years.
Well, good to know you figuring it all out and fixing it. I spent the last 10 years of my career employed as an electrical engineer for Texas Instruments.
@@BackyardMaine Cool. Like everyone, I started with TI chips on the breadboard.
I started writing assembly code for Intel 8051s in '84 and spent the next 38 years designing and writing software. A good chunk of that was working on RTOS/embedded systems with the hardware/chip 'guys'. Fascinating stuff.
Ironically, I was just looking at TI's website after Cruz voted against the 'chips' act to check out their fab plants in TX.
@@stringlarson1247 I was the facilities electrical Engineer here at the TI FAB in Southern Maine. (MFAB). I have been to the Texas facilities many times, both the in Dallas and RFAB in Richardson TX. I'm retired now making youtube videos in my spare time.
@@BackyardMaine
That's awesome buddy I live close to the old stafford Texas ti plant
My aunt started in clean room w plant opened and retired just before it shut down as director of comm of some sorts- ann miller
in the 90s looking into the clean room and playing w their demo wafer chip movement training program
I can remember the president talking in 95 or so saying we've just recently released more info on our printing system that could print a map of cont us states on the size of your thumbnail
Man it was a cool place to visit especially when younger
Always had a great fitness and rec center too
Good ole days
@@taylorj9920 Yes its cool working for a company on the leading edge of technology. It's crazy what they can do now.
This is both brilliant and kind of terrifying! If I ever find myself a homeowner again, I'll be sure to be aware of this setup!
There were a few light switches in a house I worked on that looked like that, but I didn't know that what it was called. Thanks for the information.
You bet.. Thanks for watching.
As an apprentice, I found this video really helpful. I've dealt with knob and tube before, though I've never seen a three-way switch in such homes. Now I do! 😊
Glad it was helpful! Good luck on your career as an electrician. It's a great trade and good electricians are in high demand.
We had that in our old (1912) family home, BUT SW1 was powered from a fuse box in the basement, and SW2 was powered from a fuse box on the second floor! Another problem occurred when we replaced one of the switches with a 3-way dimmer switch- the new dimmer switch immediately failed, it was apparently make-before-break and shorted the power ! That would not be a problem with today’s wiring methods.
I'm rewiring all the circuits in my house and your channel has been very helpful! thanks!
Great to hear! Thank you..
im also doing this and is how i ended up here. good luck on your projects!
@@kennymendonca2854 godspeed my friend
Thanks for the upload, guess it was worth the wait. Didn't realize this was known as Chicago 3 way, I'm assuming this method was designed by the Chicago Outfit to electrocute their victims instead of using a Tommy gun, which would draw more attention to authorities vs "deadly encounter with light bulb " lol😊
Joking aside, I actually ran across this 9 years ago on a farm in Sanilac County, Michigan. The farmer, who my father has known for many years, had 3 way switch in the house and barn on different panels, barn style yardlight on a pole near the barn, and single wire from the house and barn to the yardlight, installed sometime during early 50s, when the farm got electricity. The light sometimes got super bright for a couple seconds before going out with a bright flash that cracked the bulb, and the trouble began when the farmer purchased a 240 volt air compressor and needed to move some breakers around in the barn panel to make room for a 2 pole 20 amp, and unknowingly moved the circuit for the yardlight onto the opposite phase, and putting 240 volts on the light instead of turning it OFF in one of the four switch positions.
Because I was 25 at the time and volunteered to try and figure it out while just beginning my apprenticeship, and explained to the farmer what he did in the panel and how I got it working normally after scratching my head for probably a couple hours, he took me out to dinner at a very fancy Italian restaurant. I personally found that very educational and rewarding to figure out with no help from anyone or any electricians books.
That's a great story.. I remember when I first ran across one and it took me a bit to figure out what I was looking at. Any way, I was gutting out an old house and renovating it one room at a time so I was trying to keep the lighting on until the new wiring was complete. Later in life I learned that this was the Chicago 3-way.
that was common long ago, as well as using a hot only from house or outbuilding and the neutral there for return or vice versa(all disallowed and abandoned for obvious reasons).
as well as requiring isolated neutral/equipment(earth)grounds at sub panels and any outbuilding within a limited distance of each other or where they have other interconnected utility lines. I thought I failed an install long ago, because I didn't run 4 wire direct burial and unbonded sub panel, only to have it pass because it was far enough away from the home and had no other interconnections. I was sweating bullets thinking about having to rent the trencher again and replace the wire as it would likely be hit trying to re-trench, even though I put it over 5' deep!
why so deep? they were "talking" unknown pavement, grading changes and shallow drainage boxes/downspout drainage, so I put it deep as big 6' max depth ride on trencher would go.
that was over 25 years ago... last I seen, absolutely nothing was changed at that property, other than it's now old, run down and the couple long divorced. lol
Great explanation and diagrams. You explained so well that I saw that one coming! 😄
Awesome, thank you! The California 3-way is coming soon.
@@BackyardMaine - I look forward to it!
That's wild! I actually like the ingenuity of this one. I realized how it worked about 3:20 and was amazed! No place for it in modern electrical systems unfortunately.
Very informative! Not an electrician, but I’m often asked to change switches and receptacles for building maintenance. Thanks for the video.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Extremely valuable information. Thank you
Our pleasure! Thanks for watching..
So far, this is your most important video I have watched. Thank you.
Wow, thank you. Much appreciated. I just posted the California 3-way video if you're interest in see that method. th-cam.com/video/AeXFe5ghmKQ/w-d-xo.html
Excellent informative video - thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks so much for watching my friend.
Man, I remember as an apprentice when I first started working in residential electrical, I would always come across these Chicago and California three-way wiring methods. Very exciting💥😅 times for me back then.
That’s an interesting method. Thanks for showing it! 26 years in the electrical trade and I have never seen this. I have seen some knob and tube wiring that was switching the grounded side on single poles.
It's not common but they are still out there in old homes that haven't had the electrical updated.
Good explanation. Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Excellent explanatiin on a scary situation on an older remodel, thank you.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching..
Learned something new today , thank you very much 👍.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for posting this, I've been patiently waiting for this since you reply to me on another video. I believe Iran into this about 50 years ago at a relatives house , if I recall correctly there was power to the light fixture but it wouldn't light. I managed to change a faulty switch and got the light working but never really understood (or cared) about what was going on.
My pleasure. I have the California 3-way video made and I will have it up on Monday.
Great explanation, thank you! Looking forward to the explanation of the "California Three-way". Haven't heard of that one before watching your channel.
I hope it involves a movie star 😋
Thank you.. Glad it was helpful! The California 3-way is coming this weekend or Monday at the latest.
Excellent video and explanation. Thank You
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much for your kind words. I will be posting the California 3-way this weekend.
I had one of these neutral flip 3 ways in my 100 YO house, it took me a bit to figure out what they did. You see this in old houses where the light fixture was always hot and then neutral flip modified with wall switches. As soon as I removed the bulb, I figured out what they did. It was old knob & tube wire, so they grab any available neutral source and run it to the lower light switch to save wire and time. They took neutral from the outlet to the lower switch, cutting & into the hall stairwell neutral at the fixture. Then added a switch at the top of the stairs tied to the nearest neutral, then down to the lower stairs switch and flipped neutral(s) to the fixture and abandoning the fixture old neutral wire. You can call that a MN neutral flip.
I have a rental property built in 1970 that had a "broken" 3-way in the kitchen. I thought the switches failed, but after replacing them I could never get both switches to work. I always used the standard method, but now I see that possibly they were wired via the Chicago method. I'm not familiar with the California method, but I'll look into that too. Thanks for the excellent tutorial.
The California 3-way is coming this weekend or Monday at the latest. If your home was built in the 70s it's probably not a Chicago-3Way but it may be a California.
Awesome and thank you. Actually this explains why a few years ago during a gutted upgrade of the kitchen in my historic home with tube and knob, I first got zapped and then -- after fixing the mistake I must have made despite attempting to label everything -- had 240V going to a light fixture. The polarity's were flipping depending on the switch positions.
Sounds about right. If the circuits are split later and someone didn't know what they were getting into you could end up have a short circuit with 220v at the switch.
Wow. This is amazing. Many years in the trade. Had no idea this method existed. You sir, have earned my subscription.
Welcome aboard! I'm working on the California 3-way now. Stay tuned.
Fascinating, thanks for the explanation.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. I'll be posting the California 3-way this weekend.
Back in 2005 was doing custodial/ maintenance work for my church's campus. The original wiring was done back in the '40's in the old dairy barn. It was patched together with mineral insulation and K&T. But it had one of the three way switches that just about drove me crazy. Because one switch was at the back door of the shop building 150' away and the other in the barn. On and it was run underground in 3/4" steel conduit. Like to never figured that one out.
I had a similar situation where I was trying to turn off power to an old barn that was being torn down. Power came into the home and there was the main panel and two sub-panels. I would not fine the two pole 30A feed to the barn. I finally cut the main to the house and it still didn't take it down. Then I was thinking they tied into the meter. Nope not there either. I finally figured out that it was fed from the house across the street. I guess that was part of the farm at one time. lol
Very nice video. Understanding it helps to correct to a code compliant method.
Thank you!
I have never seen this before, and I was in the trade for 40 years. But that was in New England. Glad, this could drive a man crazy.
In New England myself.. Here in Maine. Yup it's a crazy method. lol
Whoever came up with that had a lot of confidence in those switches enforcing break-before-make regardless of how slowly the child moves the handle. Twist-POP.
Retired electrician, mystery solved. I have run across this 30 years ago in Denver, really never understood til now. It's always bothered me that I didn't understand, GOOD JOB!
Happy to hear it helped. I'll be post a video on the California 3-Way on Monday.
Thank you, great information! I'm a home inspector, so I don't take anything apart, but it's very helpful to understand what the hell is going on behind those pesky switch plate covers. Definitely been flummoxed by this situation in the past!
The California 3-Way is another oddball way of wiring 3-way switches. Not dangerous like the Chicago but can leave a person scratching their head. I'll have that video out this weekend or Monday at the latest.
Great explanation, I had never heard of this.
Thank you.. They are still out there..
Great explanation!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Awesome video, I believe I watched my mentor blast his way through trying to fix one of these, Awesome work 👍
Thank you..
Super clear explanation.
Thank you!
I found this chicago 3 way in a 1920s farm house here in Denver. the home owner changed the switches but got the wires mixed up. I figured it out and got it working so my recommendation. if you change the switches pay attention to where the terminals are on the old switches and on the new one(especially the common).
I thankfully don't do a lot of resi work and in 30+ years have never run into this.. Was still done once romex style cable was used or was this primarily in knob in tube wiring? Thanks for the vid. Wicked good explanation!
Thank you. It has been a code violation way before ROMEX or BX hit the market but I would not be surprised if there are some out there wired with these cables. Most of my career was working on large industrial projects or in manufacturing plants. Then I moved into engineering. When I was younger I used to take on residential projects on the side for extra money.
Thank You. Good info!😊
Glad it was helpful... Thank you!
Thought i was crazy . Years ago had one of these .
Really thought i was crazy .
Thx for the video
You bet. Thanks for watching.
Excellent video!
Thank you very much! I just posted the video on the California 3-way if you're interested.. th-cam.com/video/AeXFe5ghmKQ/w-d-xo.html
Young electrician raised on standard and dead-end methods. This just blew my mind. The ah-hah moment halfway through the video when I realized the light's polarity was going to be switched made me realize this is hick-ingenuity.
3:27 he mentions it. I didnt catch that until I read your comment.
So basically anything more complex than a lightbulb is gonna fry or have problems, right?
(im not an electrical guy.)
@@threestans9096 not necessarily. Most everyday devices don't qctually care when AC is involved. It's mostly safety.
Electrical Contractor in Maine since 1998 and have been in the trades for over 40 years and I have seen some things....but this Chicago 3 way is new to me. Great presentation sir, thank you. I find it shocking (pun intended) that was ever Code....with no ground available it's down right reckless to have both fixture wires hot at the same time. Treat every wire like a hot when the power is on is what I tell others.....I have lost count of the energized grounds and even metal casings I have found energized over the years.
It is a crazy method. I don't think you will find one on a home wired after the 40s maybe the 50s. This was common at one time with knob and tube wiring. The first time I saw one I was scratching my head. lol I started my career as a construction electrician and did mostly large industrial projects. I later moved into electrical engineering and retired from Texas Instruments a few years back. I started making videos and now this has become a business. lol. What part of the state do you cover?
I’m gobsmacked how crazy that is. I’ve never known anything but a true 3 way with 3/w ground Romex.
I figured out there was probably a way to make a 3 way with only 2 conductors but seing it explained so clearly is quite cool. Thank you.
Awesome thank you!
been an electrician for 25 years and this is the first ive heard of this type of 3 way. very interesting but wow that could be dangerous
Control by switching the neutral is one sure way to get somebody hurt. Never knew this was allowed and even worse that it still exists. Thanks for excellent explanation.
Thank you! It's been banned for a long time but there are a lot of old building out there where it still exists.
I would like to learn NFPA 70 requirements for Swimming Pool lights. Really enjoy your videos!!
Thank you. I'll add that to my idea list.
Very cool. Here in Oklahoma, many residential electricians and service electricians know of the Arkansas 3-way and the California 3-way, but this is the first I've heard of this one.
- Arkansas: in old houses where the circuit hot was brought first to the fixture box in the middle of the ceiling, a 14:2 Romex cable would be taken to the first 3W switch where only the black was used for power to the switch. (The white was not used). Then between switches, again 14:2 was strung for travelers. Then a third 14:2 was run from the second 3W switch back to the light fixture as a switchleg. (Again, the white was unused.)
- California: In stairwells where the circuit is closer to the upper switch and also to the fixture than any of these three are to the bottom switch, a 12:2 Romex is run to the upper switch for hot and neutral. Then a 12:3 is run from the upper switch down two the lower switch: white phased as constant hot, red and black for travelers. In the upper switch box, the circuit hot is NOT landed on the common screw of the upper switch; it is instead spliced to the hot-phased white inside the upper switch box. Finally, a 12:2 is run from the upper switch box to the fixture: white being neutral, and black being the switchleg tied the common screw.
Interesting.. I made a video on the California 3-way as well but I have not seen the Arkansas 3-way.
Seems like Chicago was always intent on burning itself to the ground. Dang! In 50 yrs of doing electrical work I thought I had seen it all. I've even worked on a number of old homes with knob n tube wiring and never come across this one. In fact, never heard of it, but thanks for the info.
Not to get deep into politics, but look at all the incompetent mayors of Chicago over the years 😆
My pleasure.. thanks for watching.
So, O'Leary's cow was not entirely to blame?
@@gregorymoore2877 Unless the cow was the electrician, then it's even mooo-re to blame!
@@davepowder4020 which would be ironic, because this method was also commonly used on farms until at least the 1950s, maybe even the 60s in some areas of the country, for switching a yardlight from the house and barn, with power on both ends and often a single wire overhead from the house, and barn/outbuilding, to the light, fed from different circuits. I actually ran across this, on a farm in Sanilac County michigan. According to the owner the house was built in 1904, but didn't have electricity until 1951, and the yardlight was installed about a year later when the new barn was finished, the original barn suffered a fire started by a gas lantern, in 1951 not long before electricity would arrive.
I like it, good thinking a long time ago. Good jobbexplaining
Thank you..
Wow! I wonder who came up with that arrangement? 😂😂 I'm glad I don't do work in Chicago!
I have to say... in my 40+ years of doing electrical work (primarily industrial & commercial in SoCal/west coast & Texas) I've never come across this (fortunately, I guess!).
Many years ago, I came across an old residence (that had been re-purposed to a Law office), in which I was contracted to do a lighting upgrade (the rooms all had old, 8' ballasted fluorescents)... until I discoverd that it still had knob-and-tube in the attic space - and it was still being utilized! Those conductors were all running VERY warm!
That job ended up taking MUCH longer (and, costing substantially more) than what was originally quoted, as I had to [basically] rewire the entire place. Fortunately, the walls were old-school, real "bat & plaster" construction, so no fire-blocking to preventing the pulling-in of new/modern conductors. What a PIA! 😂
Sound like a few projects I have worked in the past. Spent most of my career as an industrial electrician and finished it up in electrical engineering. When I was younger I use to do a lot of side work and thats really where my residential experience came from.
Damn great explanation.....THANKS!!
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
You're damn right that's lethal!!!
Whose GENIUS idea was this?!
I subbed for an electrician in my early twenties and we’d come across things like this on old work. My background was in solid state electronics as a kid just for a hobby but I had a good understanding of electricity, electrical circuits, and semi conductors because of this. My boss had 15 years as an electrician and 8 years as his own private company. You’d be amazed at what a lot of electricians don’t know beyond basic simple circuit breakers/switch/outlet scenarios. I remember him looking at a three phase diagram like he was reading mandarin. And another time showing him how to wire a DPDT relay to reverse polarity on a projector screen. You’d swear he thought it was witchcraft lol. Point being, just because you have a degree or certification, doesn’t mean you know what you should know, and someone without doesn’t mean they don’t know….
It takes years of experience. I worked in large industrial setting for most of my career and eventually because an electrical engineer. I'm retired now.
Yes sir nice vid
I live in a house in texas that we built in the late 50s early 60s
One 3way in the house for living room, lit me up first time i attempted a ceiling fan replacement hahaha.. shut the main off after that😂
I re-wired a house from mid 40-50s same chic 3 way
Like he said when it's old work is very difficult to identify a lot of the wiring especially since its all 2 wire and if it's really old.. the old cloth wrap cable that's all tied together w mech device and tar covering everything
Yes for sure.. I have removed lots of old knob and tube wiring in my life. Mostly back in the 80s and 90s when I did a lot of side work. Been an industrial electrician most of my career. Thanks for sharing..
It's crazy even if it does work. It's kinda like old pole lights on old buildings that were 220v and they just run one phase thru the contactor leaving one hot leg in the pole at all times.
I've never seen such a thing. Seems totally insane. The idea of a neutral being switched just can't fit in my brain. But, now you're making me wonder if my understanding of how it should work~~only switching hots~~is correct. I am definitely going to have to watch that next video.
The California 3-way will be out tomorrow. Then the dead end and the standard method next week. Stay tuned.
Great video thank you
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. I will be posting the California 3-way this weekend.
we even have them at up at canada, I have since encounter a few of these on my career.
Someone commented that they saw them in France as well.
I see these in every house I’ve rehabbed. I’m from St. Louis, but any house that is a 2 wire with no ground (50s or earlier) was wired this way. I moved to Omaha and same thing here. It is totally confusing and I’ve been shocked a few times thinking the power was off when I turned the light switch off. I turn power off now.
Retired electrician. Good explanation on the Chicago 3-Way, but you get to blow up stuff with a Farmers 3-Way.....Ran into both types on a house I bought a few years ago as well as #18 speaker wire used for wiring from the switches to the can lights in the living room.
Hell I use phone wire for small loads. Gotta respect the ampere rating of your conductors and use what's appropriate!
Wow my 1940s house had this. I didn't know it was called a Chicago 3 Way. It was so strange, two different lights in my house had this. I have since replaced the wiring but was confused how it worked. That is crazy how that worked!
I was scratching my head the first time I came across one. Figured it out with my multimeter and drew it out on a paper. I remember thinking it was cleaver and dangerous at the same time.
Not exactly what I was expecting when I saw the title "Chicago 3-way". But, logically, it makes sense. Unconventional that that light fixture will always have at least 1 hot leg I mean, it works.
I learned about this the hard way after attempting to install a new light in my father's garage, built in the 1970s. I was so angry to see such a dangerous installation just to save having to put in 30 feet of 3-conductor Romex. Then I remembered getting shocked as a kid (in the same house) changing a lightbulb that was turned off.
Great explanation. We called them hot switches.
Thank you!
Great vid. Great explanation.
Viewers who don't understand any of this should not do any electrical work in their home!
Thank you!
Very interesting. You will never find a circuit like that in the UK. That looks all so over complicated for no real advantage. Really interesting to see how different wiring is in other parts of the globe. Thanks for the lesson.
This old method was used before ww2 when single conductor knob and tube wiring was common.
My step-mom's first husband thought he was really good at stuff and miswired 3-ways in the house I lived in. I should go back there now that I know how things work and finally fix it.
I've been an electrician for almost 40 years, I have never seen ANYTHING like this and I've worked in a lot of knob and tube homes(near Philadelphia region), glad I never came across this. It makes sense for functionality, but WOW! Lutron Caseta with Picos is an easy fix.
I have only come across a few in my 40 years in the trade. It took a minute to figure it out the first time. No internet back then so didn't know what I found. lol
I first encountered a setup like this in a house I had bought that was built in 1954, although it didn't use 3-way switches, it used similar methods. They had wired the outside porch light to be permanently on and use a sensor with the same wiring and circuit as the kitchen sink light and switch that controlled the kitchen light, outside light and "GFCI" plug in the same double wallplate. I wanted the light on the switch.
I had everything off, yet got zapped by the neutral wires of all things. I also had the circuit breaker trip once I got everything hooked up correctly. I found out they had wired it like this where another switch on the opposite side of the kitchen, that didn't even control the light, put power through the neutral. I disconnected everything in all those circuits, used a wand toner to isolate each wire, and wired everything correctly. I still had a random hot neutral, but it wasn't in the circuit and I couldn't figure out where it went, so I capped it off, taped it off, labeled it, and stuck it back in the junction box. Poor wiring technique could have had bad consequences for someone who didn't identify it.
1:04 I love 3way and 4way switches!
At first I thought why would you do this then I remembered knob & tube used single conductors. Ah-haaaa!! Very cool video. I never knew this existed. I suppose when electricity was installed strictly for use as means to light a bulb, this might have been “ok” but yeah, I totally understand how dangerous it could be.
For sure, if we're running cable like most homes today it would make no sense.
So does this mean you are going to make separate videos to cover the other 3-way methods you referenced in the video? This is definitely helpful but I am trying to put it into context and also trying to figure out how I can use a meter to figure out which is which in a case where the wiring is buried and it's not obvious.
Yes.. That's the plan! I will have the next one out later this week.
@@BackyardMaine thank you! Looking forward to it.
Thank you. I think I have one of these in my house (built in 78). Fortunately, the wiring is somewhat accessible, so if I can confirm it, I can replace it with something sane.
I would be surprised if it's the Chicago 3-way if your home was built in 1978. What you're probably looking at is a California 3-Way. Another oddball way to wire 3-way switches but not dangerous. I'm working on that video right now and should have it uploaded either Sunday or Monday.
@@BackyardMaine it’s weird. Idiots originally wired the separate legs from different breakers; I found that years ago, disconnected and capped the wires and closed off the switch box.
20 years later, I’m ready to take another look
Ah, thank you for finally explaining.
The California 3-way is coming this weekend or Monday at the latest.
@@BackyardMaine cool thx
I encountered one of these on an old house that put two bedrooms on the third floor attic. The extra confusing part was someone added a second light and put them in series. Needed two pretty close light bulbs to get dim light out of both. I unscrewed the assumed dead bulb and the other went out. 😢.
Chicago Sparky here. It's standard practice, at least with the me and the firms I've worked with, to fix these when we come across them. Another advantage of everything being in EMT.
Yeah EMT is nice but I imagine it adds a pretty large expense during installation.
@@BackyardMaine indeed. That's why it's code here. When the codes were originally drafted there were a lot of electrical component manufacturing in the area. Another example of working the economy into building code.
Including driving up the price of any electrical install. A sea of metal tubing.
@@glee21012 true, but once installed it does make any service work and rewiring so much easier than NM cable does. And you have the extra ground of the grounded system with all that metal touching. The EMT also protects the wires, unlike NM which doesn't at all.
@@glee21012 Secure and protected.
Thought it looked familiar. But I've always known it as the Carter System.
I think I may have heard them called that before as well. I've always known it as the Chicago.
This was done everywhere when no one wanted to break open plaster and run new wires .Not to code but works electrically !
I encountered one of these after a friend was trying to replace a switch on a 3 way light circuit with a motion detector. He was baffled and asked me to have a look. I was also baffled and couldn't get it to work. Somehow the light kept managing to dimly light, receiving 80v. After us both being puzzled for a while we said screw it and he called an electrician. Now years later running across this at random, I'm almost sure this is how it was originally configured and likely why we didn't get it to work