It's nice to find a vid on YT showing gunsmithing by someone who knows what he's doing, and explains it in a consice manner using proper terminology. Subscribed!
I use the Howa 1500 for all my builds. Made a couple 6mm Creedmoors for my daughter and her husband for wedding gifts. Guns were twins. They weighed around the 8 1/2. Pound mark ready to hunt and my daughter gun (just happened that way) shot 1/2” at 100 yards and his gun shot 3/4” at a 100 yards using the Hornady match ammo. 108 grain. Thanks for the video b
After going through 5 barrels of 224V, every time I hear long throat I get a chill down my spine. I'm so glad I ended up with a Savage 6CM that consistently shoots sub moa to 550y. Thinking that I almost bought a Howa. I heard other people have luck with it, but I don't like to rely on luck. Keep them coming, also looking forward to the 6.5 PRC series, just got one, and at some extend is your fault.
My Remington 700 308 AAC SD shoots .45" at 100 with 5 shots in 2 minutes. That's with the Hogue stock that it comes with. Every once a while I'll get one ragged hole for 5 shots. I put on a $30 muzzle device that is more for looks than recoil control. I am using a $35 Caldwell bipod. I pressed the end of the stock to the barrel with compression tape, so it's not free floated. I made my own adjustable cheek riser. I have created a load that shoots well.
I ran a factory how barreled action in 6mm creedmoor in tactical bench rest competitions. Ran factory hornady 108gn eld match and consistently got less than 1/2” group and single digit standard deviation and extreme spread on my velocities. Had around 1000 rounds through the barrel with no loss of velocity. Finally switched to a 6.5x47 and custom barrel
Loved the vid, I have the 6.5 Howa Bravo and want to rebarrel it now after putting 2800-2900 rounds through it. I wanted a review on the IBI barrels and you delivered Cheers for that Keep up the good work
Hi. I work on Howa actions a lot here in Tasmania. I have found that if you blue print the action it makes a huge difference in the consistant accuracy even with the original barrel's. A spring kit change and sear polish of the original trigger can get the trigger down to a sweet 1 pound pull. Your replacement barrel are good but I would suggest truing the action and bolt face to get the full potential out of the action with that barrel. Cheers for the vids, always inreresting to watch.
I'm with some of the other guys here. I would love to see you set the barrel back and rechamber with the freebore you feel is appropriate for your ammo. See if this barrel can actually perform to the level you had expected. Reason being to keep this into more of a budget build as you started out. Otherwise I love your videos.
I have a Howa 1500 chambered in .270 and I've fitted a 24 inch varmint stainless International barrel and a GRS laminate stock. I've just finished working through load development for it and she's shooting lovely. Im debating weather to bed the action and swap out the trigger but will see how it performs for a while
I remember watching your rebarrel at 300 video and you were saying the bullet needed to be seated out to approach the lands further than your mag would allow. When I converted to AICS mags I had the same problem but fixed it running MDT AICS metal mags. Gave me more than enough clearance for long bullets in my 6mm creed.
Hi Gavin. My howa took at least 100 rounds before it started to group. Now it groups half moa. Really happy with it. Had me worried for a while I have to admit.
Great job regrouping to save the project! I would love to hear the diagnostic on that bbl you removed. Have you planned to slug it? Something has to explain why it was so mediocre?!? Do you think it was the chambering? Is it possible to use that new reamer and revive the bbl? Can't wait to see how the load development goes on the new one!
Great info and help. Have been considering a Howa build in 6.5 from Brownells. Seems like they offer two levels, one double the price of the other (barrel/action). Not sure. What's holding me back is the scope. Don't have the disoposable income for Nightforce level etc. yet had a bad experience with the ADE (cheap) and won't go that way again. Got to be something that is not junk and will hold up. I don't want to build a rifle around a cheap scope. Thanks again, great info, especially appreciate the machine process. Keep up the good work.
When bedding most rifle recoil lugs, they need to be tapped on the front, bottom and sides so leaving clearance. However, as the Howa has the front action screw pulling down on the base of the lug, there should be no clearance on the base; ie do not put tape on the bottom of lug when bedding but leave clear like the rear of lug.
Great detail reviewing the issues and documenting your process and troubleshooting/diagnosing the issues. That said, you could have bought the cheapest factory Tikka and a prefit 6mm CM barrel (since Tikka doesn't make a factory 6mm CM) and ended up with the same/better results for far less time and $$$. I've been down the same road with multiple different brands of bolt guns and I got rid of everything else and now run all Tikka actions. Unless you're going to step up to a full custom action/barrel/trigger and spend $3K+ on a rifle there's not much that can compare for the price/performance/consistency of a Tikka action. If you don't mind running a factory caliber you can get a Tikka CTR for about $800 and drop it in a Bravo chassis and be done for about $1150 and shoot sub 1/2 MOA with factory ammo and usually get to 1/4 MOA with handloads. All that with a factory action/barrel/trigger. An interesting new product from Ultimatum this year is their DeFacto barreled action *with* a Triggertech trigger for $1K, including an IBI barrel. For that price point I'm seriously considering that setup for my next build. I think it'll be great performance for the price and will fit Tikka chassis. Very interesting combining a R700 pattern trigger with a Tikka action footprint as well as that opens up the possibility of running some fancier two stage R700 triggers like the Bix n Andy etc.
Yeah I removed the trigger on my Howa TSP-X and cut one turn off the coil spring. The difference was huge and the only cost was a half hour of my time.
Hi Gavin, You didn't mention if you at least dialled the action, we've had Howas in huge numbers in Australia for ages, nearly all of them need some degree of squaring up, Also did you look into the Jard Howa trigger nice and light the lighter one is somewhere around the 8OZ mark. Great video thanks Rob
I had planned to true the action, but the bushings I have for my GreTan rifle truing jig are the wrong diameter :( I had thought they were the same between HOWA and Rem700- but no!
Bought a factory Howa 1500 with GRS Berserk composite stock a couple of years ago. The action lug didn't touch the stock and when torquing the action screw the stock was being physically pulled into the action and creating stress. I ended up bedding the lug to fill in that gap, which was quite substantial. Always something to think about with the Howa design...
I think it's a QC issue with Legacy. From what I've gathered, LSI gets Howa barreled actions and puts them into various stocks. I got a Howa 6.5 PRC in a TSP-X chassis from SCSA and I had to reseat the action and torque everything down before it was ready to go. I do like the integral lug design. A lot nicer than the loose aluminum lug design used on my Tikka.
Im a huge Howa fan. I shoot 2 in precision matches. Howa Bravo 6.5CM and How mini in the Oryx in 6.5 Grendel. Both drill provided i do my job lol. My 6.5CM is a pinch over 1300rnds and still shooting .4 Bummer on your experience. But i understand “things dont go as planned”
One thing I never knew, and just found out recently. It is highly advised not to thread smaller than 5/8” threads on the muzzle. Was told my a very prominent, and well known gunsmith, that doing so can cause the bore to open up. Resulting in bad accuracy. Sometimes when I’m looking at just off the shelf rifles, you’ll see some manufacturers will follow this guideline. Some not.
Why are we not using preferred barrel blanks? Get a hold of Logan (Westdesertshooter) he can hook you up with what you need. But I'm sure you already know this? 👊😎🇺🇸
It would be very interesting to see how much you could improve the accuracy on that howa barrel by blueprinting it and seeing if you can save the barrel I know howas to be good shooters so I assume there something wrong with that barrel.
Nice job. Have any plans for a AR 6 creed? You need 1 to match the AR Valkyrie & Bolt Valkyrie. You're doing a great job on your rebarrels. Thanks for the SHOT 2020 coverage.
Great info and love all the detailed work that was shown on camera. You helped me make up my mind on buying a howa. Flat bottom actions like this one are not for me.
Interesting, I have a Howa HS Precision. In 308. Its very accurate. Got it for $910. A few years back. Its my loaner rifle for hunting deer. coupled with a vortex scope. Its very good.
The Ship of Theseus basically asks the question, how much of a ship can you replace before it's no longer the same boat? The Howa of Gavin asks, how much of a howa 1500 can you rebuild before it is no longer a howa?
Zach Webber i’ll tell you what, one of my main motivations with this project was specifically to do a build with a HOWA action for me it’s important to know all of the platforms as a Gunsmith… Having said that, I thought this rifle would shoot better than it did it and I was thinking to re-barrel with a different cartridge but it worked out this way and I’m happy now.
wow nice rifle gavin!! i was wondering when are you going to do a update on your 300 prc rifle? have you doing any prs matches yet? gr aj from the netherlands
Hi my name is Dean and you know a whole lot more than I know about your Howa. . I would like your thoughts and I would like your help on a couple of things . I have a Howa 1500 it has a floor plate can I get it to where it will accept magazines in 7mm08. I am going to go with an MDT chassis system still trying to decide on which one I am a hunter I want to go hunting with this rifle. And I am also thinking about going with a X Caliber Barrel in the same caliber varmint Barrel . And I like your thoughts on the trigger I think that would be an awesome trigger for me to go with as well thank you for what you do you are awesome I really do enjoy your content have an awesome day and happy shooting
YO, what happened to the rest of the 6.5 PRC? We need to see load development and results to see if its worth considering over 6.5 Creed. What kind of COAL and magazines, you know all that stuff.
It's snowing and raining every day here- believe me I'M ITCHING TO GET OUT THERE AND SHOOT 😀 - as soon as weather clears up- 6 CREED, 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, and more!
What's the overall weight as she sits Gavin? I like the Howa and your decision to use Brownell's program... I'm considering a 6.5 Creedmoor but the chassis available are pretty much geared towards PRS or range application...Can you suggest someone that has designed a frame that has kept the hunter in mind as well as the long range target geometry? I don't care much for plastic or these synthetic type stocks...Iprefer machined aluminum or magnesium...strong but light weight..I don't really want to be lugging around a boat anchor and would like to keep it in the 7 1/2lb range, less the scope and rings... I've looked at Bergara, X Bolt, Tikka, Sako, Daniel Defense, Vanguard and Ruger as well as Howa and I like what your doing with the project.. They all seem to have they're little idiosyncrasies and quirks when it comes to design and functionality, which may or may not effect the end user to a detriment but I think the Howa gives one a good solid foundation to begin with, provided accuracy isn't one of those caveats? Let me know what you think Gavin...perhaps you can steer me in the right direction here... by the by....those were some pretty tight groups you put together...
@@Ultimatereloader I bought a 1lb and a 1.5lb kit, I'll send you the 1lb item if you want, I've never shot a Timney, but have thousands of rounds through olympic match airguns so know what a good trigger feels like, the HACT is NOT in that league but is quite nice when modded.
Great video, but I disagree that a PRS rifle should shoot sub half MOA. Most targets in the matches I've shot are around 2 MOA and only the smallest target on the KYL rack is half MOA. The rest are at least 1 MOA. A rifle that shoots 1 MOA will work if you have to use it, but I'd say a 3/4 MOA rifle is good enough for PRS.
vgl217 Exactly. A 3/4 minute rifle that can stack 5 round groups in quick succession will probably out perform a quarter minute rifle that needs to cool down between shots.
I have a Howa 1500 heavy barrel 300wing mag in a bedded boyds stock that I cant get to group either. Will occasionally squeeze out a sub MOA 3 shot group with it so it meets the accuracy guarantee but it has never shot a 5 shot group sub moa. Trying to decide to rebarrel or unload it.
@@billstevens5277 I've done some rough measurements. With 208 grain ELDs I would have to seat them longer than the mag would allow to get then to touch the lands. All bullets I have experimented with have to be seated way farther than SAAMI spec to reach the lands or even get close
Damn you Gavin. Chassis are expensive. Built my Howa Grendel on a Boyd’s One stock because it was cheaper. It groups pretty good but wanted to put it in a chassis
Personally don’t have near the machining tools that you do, although I did learn the hard way…if you really want a rifle that shoots very very consistently…call the best smith you can find and build it how they say would prob be best. Not a fan of “custom shops either”. Very few custom shops actually will build a rifle like you demonstrated. In your case, you got all the equipment, and a good knowledge base to take care of it yourself.
Very satisfying that you COULD directly improve the accuracy -- and it's always a good reminder that, at the end of the day it's impossible to shoot better than the chamber and bore will allow for. You've got me a bit reluctant about the idea of purchasing a Howa barreled receiver, however (or howa ever, lol).
I have a Howa TSP-X in 6.5 PRC and it's consistently below 1/2 moa with factory ammo. I'm guessing there was an issue with their 6 Creed barrels because I've never heard of this issue from other long distance shooters using Howa rifles.
@@karlschauff7989 Modern barrels chambered in modern cartridges SHOULD (at least with handloads) be able to consistently shoot 1/2 MOA. So yeah, there's probably a specific screw-up going on, somewhere.
Oddly enough, I am having the exact same issue with my 700 barrel in 308... put it together and I can't get it to group to save my life... the first couple dozen groups were around 16" after retorquing everything and rechecking, I got it down to 6" groups. And it's seemed to shrink with every shot... 400 rounds deep and I'm grouping around 3"... groups seem to be shrinking but I find it odd that I can't get a decent group on it, I've been working every few days for about an hour or so for about a month now. Could be a bad barrel but it could simply be me out of practice....
I enjoy your videos. I have three HOWAs (6.5 Grendel; 6.5 Creedmoor; .308). HOWA/Legacy Sports only guarantee sub - 1.047 inch groups (3 round). All three of my HOWAs met the criteria in factory overmolded stocks with factory Winchester Deer Season XP and Hornady SST. I wouldn't consider myself a great shot (1.0 to 1.5 MOA consistently). Neither the 6.5 Creedmoor nor the (.308) improved when installed in my HCR chassis. I don't know if the 6.5 Grendel Mini Action would improve/benefit from an aftermarket stock or chassis. I won't spend any more money on it until there exists better, more reliable magazine options for the Howa Mini Actions. It's good to know that the KRG Bravo was not the main cause of your issues. I've been considering the KRG Bravo every since it was announced.
You mentioned measuring the lam (probably not spelled correctly) and my question is, if you’re ordering a custom barrel or a prefit or what have you. What do I need to measure or do before I choose a reamer and the bore and anything else
Hey Gavin - I know this is an older video, but I was curious about something when I came across it. Did you blueprint the Howa 1500 action between removing the factory barrel and adding the new one? If yes/no, then why and did it make a difference in your mind? Thanks in advance from Texas?
I don’t have a Howa, but when you mentioned the action screw was in the recoil lug I had to rewind to make sure I heard you correctly. I then googled some images to confirm. I really don’t like that design. I’m impressed that you were able to fiddle with it and get it to shoot groups though. I fear that over time it will cause more problems though. Keep us up to date. 👍🏻
Theres nothing wrong with that sort of design. A few other rifles have done it with no issue. you may have heard of them. Mauser 98, 03 Springfield, 1917 Enfield, and Ruger M77. They just require a change to technique. Bedding under the chamber portion for about an inch removes almost all the barrel movement.
Actually this is a better system, blind bottom hole and more threads in contact. Any guard screw going under the locking lug recess is by nature weaker and can result in not getting the action open after tightening the screw, or getting it closes after tightening with the action open. The bedding is another issue but eh Howa is inherently stiffer than a Remington 700 reciever as is the Model 70 and Springfield. Still bedding a couple inces of barrel (not a switchbarrel rig) does the trick. Would still like to see the action fully blueprinted and old barrel cut off and refitted, just maybe that barrel was suffering from maladies not of it's own making. Food for thought. Talk to Dave at PTG about Gen II blueprint tools for the Howa.
One thing I have noticed when firing with a suppressor that has a heavy barrel drastically reduced in diameter at the crown (I see you used a 5/8 24 thread), when firing a 5 shot group the first 2 shots are 1/4" and then the group opens up after that to around 1/2". I have removed the suppressor and done the same test with all landing in a 1/4 MOA. I repeated the test letting the barrel/suppressor cool after each shot and again 1/4". I figured with all that meat removed there was something going on at the crown in the way of movement and I got the barrel re-threaded, removing as little material as practical, which made a real difference with just over a 1/4 with a 5 shot group. Something to consider trying!
@gavintoobe - Enjoyed the video and looking forward to the next. Do you typically need to bed a KRG Bravo? Want to use one on my next rifle and would be handy to know. Thanks-
I have to ask, why didn't you consider setting the barrel back a thread or two and rechambering? Seems like the Howa barrel wanted to shoot, had the chamber been squared away. I'll frame that in by saying I'm a spendthrift (Cheap Bastard) and I may have went there first, you already had reamers and gauges in mind.
How did you get an IBI barrel into the US with the stupid ITAR rules? Just got a Howa HCR in 6mm as well and it isn’t shooting that great. Took cheap Cabela’s Covenant Scope off and put Vortex HST on off my Lapua and we’ll see how that goes. Also gonna cut 1 1/3 coils off trigger spring to bring that down. Hopefully this will fix my issues as I don’t have all the tools and know how you have! I did manage to swap the barrel on my Savage 10TR .308 with a McGowan prefit from Mystic Precision which worked out well though!
Say you really wanted to keep this as a budget build and you got a rifle that shot 1 to 1.5 MOA out of the box. Is it possible to say bump the chamber forward 0.15" with a new cutter and reamer then adjust the thread, shoulder etc to suit?? You'd only be losing that 0.15" in barrel length and keeping an other wise good shooting barrel.
hey brother! love the build videos! im a gunsmith and my career path has led me away from bolt guns but i still love building them in my spare time. what are the dial indicators that you use after you drill your prebore?
I have a howa 6.5 creedmoor 24inches Barrel HCR I haven't had any problems at all Factory loads and I do my own reloads haven't had one that experience I can hit for her to guards dead center every time up to a 1000 no problem from 1 although it to a 1000 yd haven't had 1 problem whatsoever
I love my Howa rifles. Own 2 in 6.5 CM and 308 and they shoot lights out. My question is with your machining skills why are you messing with a factory Howa otc barreled action.?
Great informative video’s. With all the machinists equipment you have, you should go into business making rifles. I’d buy one from you with your attention to detail
I shoot 243 1 in 8 twist Shilen 26 inch stainless. Have shot groups equal to the 6mm creedmore. dropped a coyote today about 300 yards with it. Yes you can rebarrel savages and pick what ever cartridge fits the length of your action.
What torque are you using on the front and back screw? Usually on a chassis you run 65 inch pounds in the front and start with around 20 inch pounds and increase in 5 pound increments till the groups seem to tighten up. Did you true the bolt face?
Next. Budget Bergara B14 build with custom barrel and caliber. Just kidding. PS.: Although.... I´d really like to know your thoughts on the off the shelf Bergara B14/Premier HMR/Pro rifles. Especially in .300 PRC.
Your skills and investment of time and knowledge are amazing. Kudos. That said, I would just by a Christensen Arms, Seekins Precision from the start and get a superior quality rifle that doesn't need upgrades. It seems kind of a waste to buy a rifle and then buy it again with a new custom barrel, trigger, etc.
Awsome job Gavin! I been thinking about getting a 6mm creedmoor what budget rifle do you recommend at around $1,000? What do you think about Tikka actions I have a tikka t3 ctr 6.5 creedmoor for target shooting and a Tikka t3 300winmag for hunting and the tikka action is like butter I like the Tikka action better than the Howa action but to each their own I figure you know rifle tech a heck of a lot better than me!
The threading trick is once you learn how to thread in reverse upside down away from the spindle you'll never thread imperial with the half nut lever again in your life
I was going to get a howa american flag whole rifle. And I think they're phasing them out. So I ended up going the same route you went I got a barreled action from brownells and one of the last 100 that howa had. Can you tell me what clip you use. Mike
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Very well done. As a fellow machinist, and Howa shooter. This satisfied me thoroughly!
It's nice to find a vid on YT showing gunsmithing by someone who knows what he's doing, and explains it in a consice manner using proper terminology. Subscribed!
I use the Howa 1500 for all my builds. Made a couple 6mm Creedmoors for my daughter and her husband for wedding gifts. Guns were twins. They weighed around the 8 1/2. Pound mark ready to hunt and my daughter gun (just happened that way) shot 1/2” at 100 yards and his gun shot 3/4” at a 100 yards using the Hornady match ammo. 108 grain. Thanks for the video b
Do you blueprint the Howa 1500, or just put the barrel on from the factory action?
What kind of barrel life are you getting out of the Howa barrels in 6mm CM?
Great results. Glad you did not give up on the project. Looking forward to seeing you fine tune it.
Thanks!
After going through 5 barrels of 224V, every time I hear long throat I get a chill down my spine. I'm so glad I ended up with a Savage 6CM that consistently shoots sub moa to 550y. Thinking that I almost bought a Howa. I heard other people have luck with it, but I don't like to rely on luck. Keep them coming, also looking forward to the 6.5 PRC series, just got one, and at some extend is your fault.
Glad to help you spend $$$ on a 6.5 PRC! :)
My Remington 700 308 AAC SD shoots .45" at 100 with 5 shots in 2 minutes. That's with the Hogue stock that it comes with. Every once a while I'll get one ragged hole for 5 shots. I put on a $30 muzzle device that is more for looks than recoil control. I am using a $35 Caldwell bipod. I pressed the end of the stock to the barrel with compression tape, so it's not free floated. I made my own adjustable cheek riser. I have created a load that shoots well.
I ran a factory how barreled action in 6mm creedmoor in tactical bench rest competitions. Ran factory hornady 108gn eld match and consistently got less than 1/2” group and single digit standard deviation and extreme spread on my velocities. Had around 1000 rounds through the barrel with no loss of velocity. Finally switched to a 6.5x47 and custom barrel
Loved the vid, I have the 6.5 Howa Bravo and want to rebarrel it now after putting 2800-2900 rounds through it. I wanted a review on the IBI barrels and you delivered
Cheers for that
Keep up the good work
Hi.
I work on Howa actions a lot here in Tasmania.
I have found that if you blue print the action it makes a huge difference in the consistant accuracy even with the original barrel's.
A spring kit change and sear polish of the original trigger can get the trigger down to a sweet 1 pound pull.
Your replacement barrel are good but I would suggest truing the action and bolt face to get the full potential out of the action with that barrel.
Cheers for the vids, always inreresting to watch.
Please do a mini action, CZ 527 or Howa mini in 6.5 grendel. Ultralight MT rifle build!
Living Southern I’d be keen to see this too
Me too
I'm with some of the other guys here. I would love to see you set the barrel back and rechamber with the freebore you feel is appropriate for your ammo. See if this barrel can actually perform to the level you had expected. Reason being to keep this into more of a budget build as you started out.
Otherwise I love your videos.
I have a Howa 1500 chambered in .270 and I've fitted a 24 inch varmint stainless International barrel and a GRS laminate stock. I've just finished working through load development for it and she's shooting lovely. Im debating weather to bed the action and swap out the trigger but will see how it performs for a while
I remember watching your rebarrel at 300 video and you were saying the bullet needed to be seated out to approach the lands further than your mag would allow. When I converted to AICS mags I had the same problem but fixed it running MDT AICS metal mags. Gave me more than enough clearance for long bullets in my 6mm creed.
Thank you for this video... it awnsered a few things that I'm struggling with on my Howa in 6.5PRC💪🏻
Hi Gavin. My howa took at least 100 rounds before it started to group. Now it groups half moa. Really happy with it. Had me worried for a while I have to admit.
Great job regrouping to save the project! I would love to hear the diagnostic on that bbl you removed. Have you planned to slug it? Something has to explain why it was so mediocre?!? Do you think it was the chambering? Is it possible to use that new reamer and revive the bbl? Can't wait to see how the load development goes on the new one!
What a project.!!👍👍
Thanks Ian!
Been wanting for this thanks for not giving up. 🖒🖒
Thanks Wayne! :)
Another great video Gav!!
Great video!
Thanks!
Great info and help. Have been considering a Howa build in 6.5 from Brownells. Seems like they offer two levels,
one double the price of the other (barrel/action). Not sure. What's holding me back is the scope. Don't have the
disoposable income for Nightforce level etc. yet had a bad experience with the ADE (cheap) and won't go that way
again. Got to be something that is not junk and will hold up. I don't want to build a rifle around a cheap scope.
Thanks again, great info, especially appreciate the machine process. Keep up the good work.
Vortex... in the 4-500$ range.....cant go wrong.....don't need a 1000 dollar scope...
Vortex diamondback tactical 6x24x50 ffp $400. I've been very pleased with mine.
When bedding most rifle recoil lugs, they need to be tapped on the front, bottom and sides so leaving clearance. However, as the Howa has the front action screw pulling down on the base of the lug, there should be no clearance on the base; ie do not put tape on the bottom of lug when bedding but leave clear like the rear of lug.
Love my IBI barrels! Great video!
Looking good in the neighborhood !!!
That's weird.. I got a howa oryx 6mm creedmoor straight factory no mods with factory hornady black it shoots .25 moa all day.
This is undoubtedly the sexiest rifle in your arsenal.
Great detail reviewing the issues and documenting your process and troubleshooting/diagnosing the issues. That said, you could have bought the cheapest factory Tikka and a prefit 6mm CM barrel (since Tikka doesn't make a factory 6mm CM) and ended up with the same/better results for far less time and $$$. I've been down the same road with multiple different brands of bolt guns and I got rid of everything else and now run all Tikka actions. Unless you're going to step up to a full custom action/barrel/trigger and spend $3K+ on a rifle there's not much that can compare for the price/performance/consistency of a Tikka action. If you don't mind running a factory caliber you can get a Tikka CTR for about $800 and drop it in a Bravo chassis and be done for about $1150 and shoot sub 1/2 MOA with factory ammo and usually get to 1/4 MOA with handloads. All that with a factory action/barrel/trigger.
An interesting new product from Ultimatum this year is their DeFacto barreled action *with* a Triggertech trigger for $1K, including an IBI barrel. For that price point I'm seriously considering that setup for my next build. I think it'll be great performance for the price and will fit Tikka chassis. Very interesting combining a R700 pattern trigger with a Tikka action footprint as well as that opens up the possibility of running some fancier two stage R700 triggers like the Bix n Andy etc.
Tikka is on my list for a build!
I think the standard PACT trigger with some work, ie lighter sear spring can be made super light and safe ,much better than the timney.
Yeah I removed the trigger on my Howa TSP-X and cut one turn off the coil spring. The difference was huge and the only cost was a half hour of my time.
Hi Gavin,
You didn't mention if you at least dialled the action, we've had Howas in huge numbers in Australia for ages, nearly all of them need some degree of squaring up, Also did you look into the Jard Howa trigger nice and light the lighter one is somewhere around the 8OZ mark.
Great video thanks
Rob
I had planned to true the action, but the bushings I have for my GreTan rifle truing jig are the wrong diameter :( I had thought they were the same between HOWA and Rem700- but no!
I'm thankful my Howa 1500 6.5 PRC doesn't have this issue. Must be an issue with their 6 Creeds?
Bought a factory Howa 1500 with GRS Berserk composite stock a couple of years ago. The action lug didn't touch the stock and when torquing the action screw the stock was being physically pulled into the action and creating stress. I ended up bedding the lug to fill in that gap, which was quite substantial. Always something to think about with the Howa design...
I think it's a QC issue with Legacy. From what I've gathered, LSI gets Howa barreled actions and puts them into various stocks. I got a Howa 6.5 PRC in a TSP-X chassis from SCSA and I had to reseat the action and torque everything down before it was ready to go. I do like the integral lug design. A lot nicer than the loose aluminum lug design used on my Tikka.
Dude that rifle is beautiful want to get my 6.5 cm rebereled
Buy you a prefit from X-Caliber, NSS or preferred barrel blanks. Easy to do.
Very nice build. May I ask why you didn't go all the way and blueprint the action? Would be nice to hear your thoughts on this.
Just cut 1.5 rounds off the factory trigger spring. Rifle will still be 100%drop safe and u can get it down under a pound.
I did this with my TSP-X. Very easy and the results were pretty amazing. Their HACT trigger is a good design and very easy to work on.
Im a huge Howa fan. I shoot 2 in precision matches. Howa Bravo 6.5CM and How mini in the Oryx in 6.5 Grendel. Both drill provided i do my job lol. My 6.5CM is a pinch over 1300rnds and still shooting .4
Bummer on your experience. But i understand “things dont go as planned”
You've got some great results there!
One thing I never knew, and just found out recently. It is highly advised not to thread smaller than 5/8” threads on the muzzle. Was told my a very prominent, and well known gunsmith, that doing so can cause the bore to open up. Resulting in bad accuracy. Sometimes when I’m looking at just off the shelf rifles, you’ll see some manufacturers will follow this guideline. Some not.
Great gavin! Im about to cut the threads!
Why are we not using preferred barrel blanks? Get a hold of Logan (Westdesertshooter) he can hook you up with what you need. But I'm sure you already know this? 👊😎🇺🇸
Already working on it :)
It would be very interesting to see how much you could improve the accuracy on that howa barrel by blueprinting it and seeing if you can save the barrel I know howas to be good shooters so I assume there something wrong with that barrel.
Nice job. Have any plans for a AR 6 creed? You need 1 to match the AR Valkyrie & Bolt Valkyrie. You're doing a great job on your rebarrels.
Thanks for the SHOT 2020 coverage.
I wish I could add a picture on here, I have a Ruger Predator in 6 Creed with 108 ELDM's that shoots in the .3's.....
Great info and love all the detailed work that was shown on camera. You helped me make up my mind on buying a howa. Flat bottom actions like this one are not for me.
Sounds like you've found the issues. Interested to see you use that timney at 1.5 lbs. Great gun and great work on fixing it.
Interesting, I have a Howa HS Precision. In 308. Its very accurate. Got it for $910. A few years back. Its my loaner rifle for hunting deer. coupled with a vortex scope. Its very good.
Gavin, now you can re-chamber the factory barrel and use it on another Howa action perhaps?
The Ship of Theseus basically asks the question, how much of a ship can you replace before it's no longer the same boat? The Howa of Gavin asks, how much of a howa 1500 can you rebuild before it is no longer a howa?
Zach Webber i’ll tell you what, one of my main motivations with this project was specifically to do a build with a HOWA action for me it’s important to know all of the platforms as a Gunsmith… Having said that, I thought this rifle would shoot better than it did it and I was thinking to re-barrel with a different cartridge but it worked out this way and I’m happy now.
wow nice rifle gavin!! i was wondering when are you going to do a update on your 300 prc rifle? have you doing any prs matches yet?
gr aj from the netherlands
Thanks, and glad to have you watching from the Netherlands!
Hi my name is Dean and you know a whole lot more than I know about your Howa. . I would like your thoughts and I would like your help on a couple of things . I have a Howa 1500 it has a floor plate can I get it to where it will accept magazines in 7mm08. I am going to go with an MDT chassis system still trying to decide on which one I am a hunter I want to go hunting with this rifle. And I am also thinking about going with a X Caliber Barrel in the same caliber varmint Barrel . And I like your thoughts on the trigger I think that would be an awesome trigger for me to go with as well thank you for what you do you are awesome I really do enjoy your content have an awesome day and happy shooting
YO, what happened to the rest of the 6.5 PRC? We need to see load development and results to see if its worth considering over 6.5 Creed. What kind of COAL and magazines, you know all that stuff.
It's snowing and raining every day here- believe me I'M ITCHING TO GET OUT THERE AND SHOOT 😀 - as soon as weather clears up- 6 CREED, 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC, and more!
Love this build!
What's the overall weight as she sits Gavin? I like the Howa and your decision to use Brownell's program... I'm considering a 6.5 Creedmoor but the chassis available are pretty much geared towards PRS or range application...Can you suggest someone that has designed a frame that has kept the hunter in mind as well as the long range target geometry? I don't care much for plastic or these synthetic type stocks...Iprefer machined aluminum or magnesium...strong but light weight..I don't really want to be lugging around a boat anchor and would like to keep it in the 7 1/2lb range, less the scope and rings... I've looked at Bergara, X Bolt, Tikka, Sako, Daniel Defense, Vanguard and Ruger as well as Howa and I like what your doing with the project.. They all seem to have they're little idiosyncrasies and quirks when it comes to design and functionality, which may or may not effect the end user to a detriment but I think the Howa gives one a good solid foundation to begin with, provided accuracy isn't one of those caveats? Let me know what you think Gavin...perhaps you can steer me in the right direction here... by the by....those were some pretty tight groups you put together...
I think I would make pillars for bedding. Then bed in stages as necessary. Thats how I bedded my cz550.
Great series Gavin enjoy it so much. One question how do you compare the ibi barrels to other brands you have used thanks mate
I modified my HACT trigger with a Gunbloke spring kit, a little cheaper than the Timney unit.
I looked into that and talked to Gunbloke, but haven't heard back from him :)
@@Ultimatereloader I bought a 1lb and a 1.5lb kit, I'll send you the 1lb item if you want, I've never shot a Timney, but have thousands of rounds through olympic match airguns so know what a good trigger feels like, the HACT is NOT in that league but is quite nice when modded.
The howa action sounds like one of those that you might wanna bed the first 1-2" of barrel on...
Great video, but I disagree that a PRS rifle should shoot sub half MOA. Most targets in the matches I've shot are around 2 MOA and only the smallest target on the KYL rack is half MOA. The rest are at least 1 MOA. A rifle that shoots 1 MOA will work if you have to use it, but I'd say a 3/4 MOA rifle is good enough for PRS.
vgl217 Exactly. A 3/4 minute rifle that can stack 5 round groups in quick succession will probably out perform a quarter minute rifle that needs to cool down between shots.
Those federals are pretty awesome. 👍👍. I've just built a 6x47. Have you ever thought about looking into that cartridge?
I was wondering why you didn't just chop some off the stock barrel and chamber? I'm often price oriented.
I wanted to try an International Barrels blank! :)
So would it have been a viable option just to shorten the chamber end to bring it back to Sami spec?
I have a Howa 1500 heavy barrel 300wing mag in a bedded boyds stock that I cant get to group either. Will occasionally squeeze out a sub MOA 3 shot group with it so it meets the accuracy guarantee but it has never shot a 5 shot group sub moa. Trying to decide to rebarrel or unload it.
.300 WinMags are notorious for having too much freebore. Have you measured yours?
@@billstevens5277 I've done some rough measurements. With 208 grain ELDs I would have to seat them longer than the mag would allow to get then to touch the lands. All bullets I have experimented with have to be seated way farther than SAAMI spec to reach the lands or even get close
Damn you Gavin. Chassis are expensive. Built my Howa Grendel on a Boyd’s One stock because it was cheaper. It groups pretty good but wanted to put it in a chassis
Personally don’t have near the machining tools that you do, although I did learn the hard way…if you really want a rifle that shoots very very consistently…call the best smith you can find and build it how they say would prob be best. Not a fan of “custom shops either”. Very few custom shops actually will build a rifle like you demonstrated.
In your case, you got all the equipment, and a good knowledge base to take care of it yourself.
Very satisfying that you COULD directly improve the accuracy -- and it's always a good reminder that, at the end of the day it's impossible to shoot better than the chamber and bore will allow for. You've got me a bit reluctant about the idea of purchasing a Howa barreled receiver, however (or howa ever, lol).
I have a Howa TSP-X in 6.5 PRC and it's consistently below 1/2 moa with factory ammo. I'm guessing there was an issue with their 6 Creed barrels because I've never heard of this issue from other long distance shooters using Howa rifles.
@@karlschauff7989 Modern barrels chambered in modern cartridges SHOULD (at least with handloads) be able to consistently shoot 1/2 MOA. So yeah, there's probably a specific screw-up going on, somewhere.
Oddly enough, I am having the exact same issue with my 700 barrel in 308... put it together and I can't get it to group to save my life... the first couple dozen groups were around 16" after retorquing everything and rechecking, I got it down to 6" groups. And it's seemed to shrink with every shot... 400 rounds deep and I'm grouping around 3"... groups seem to be shrinking but I find it odd that I can't get a decent group on it, I've been working every few days for about an hour or so for about a month now. Could be a bad barrel but it could simply be me out of practice....
I enjoy your videos. I have three HOWAs (6.5 Grendel; 6.5 Creedmoor; .308). HOWA/Legacy Sports only guarantee sub - 1.047 inch groups (3 round). All three of my HOWAs met the criteria in factory overmolded stocks with factory Winchester Deer Season XP and Hornady SST. I wouldn't consider myself a great shot (1.0 to 1.5 MOA consistently). Neither the 6.5 Creedmoor nor the (.308) improved when installed in my HCR chassis. I don't know if the 6.5 Grendel Mini Action would improve/benefit from an aftermarket stock or chassis. I won't spend any more money on it until there exists better, more reliable magazine options for the Howa Mini Actions. It's good to know that the KRG Bravo was not the main cause of your issues. I've been considering the KRG Bravo every since it was announced.
You mentioned measuring the lam (probably not spelled correctly) and my question is, if you’re ordering a custom barrel or a prefit or what have you. What do I need to measure or do before I choose a reamer and the bore and anything else
Hey Gavin - I know this is an older video, but I was curious about something when I came across it. Did you blueprint the Howa 1500 action between removing the factory barrel and adding the new one? If yes/no, then why and did it make a difference in your mind? Thanks in advance from Texas?
I don’t have a Howa, but when you mentioned the action screw was in the recoil lug I had to rewind to make sure I heard you correctly. I then googled some images to confirm. I really don’t like that design. I’m impressed that you were able to fiddle with it and get it to shoot groups though. I fear that over time it will cause more problems though. Keep us up to date. 👍🏻
Theres nothing wrong with that sort of design. A few other rifles have done it with no issue. you may have heard of them. Mauser 98, 03 Springfield, 1917 Enfield, and Ruger M77. They just require a change to technique. Bedding under the chamber portion for about an inch removes almost all the barrel movement.
Actually this is a better system, blind bottom hole and more threads in contact. Any guard screw going under the locking lug recess is by nature weaker and can result in not getting the action open after tightening the screw, or getting it closes after tightening with the action open. The bedding is another issue but eh Howa is inherently stiffer than a Remington 700 reciever as is the Model 70 and Springfield. Still bedding a couple inces of barrel (not a switchbarrel rig) does the trick. Would still like to see the action fully blueprinted and old barrel cut off and refitted, just maybe that barrel was suffering from maladies not of it's own making. Food for thought. Talk to Dave at PTG about Gen II blueprint tools for the Howa.
@@williamjohnson2896 Thats what I use for the howa's I build. That and McGowen now makes a quick change barrel nut for the Howa action
Awesome build! Did you get a chance to check out IBI's carbon fiber barrels at Showshot? I'm looking forward to getting one when they're released.
I'll have to check that out!
One thing I have noticed when firing with a suppressor that has a heavy barrel drastically reduced in diameter at the crown (I see you used a 5/8 24 thread), when firing a 5 shot group the first 2 shots are 1/4" and then the group opens up after that to around 1/2". I have removed the suppressor and done the same test with all landing in a 1/4 MOA. I repeated the test letting the barrel/suppressor cool after each shot and again 1/4". I figured with all that meat removed there was something going on at the crown in the way of movement and I got the barrel re-threaded, removing as little material as practical, which made a real difference with just over a 1/4 with a 5 shot group. Something to consider trying!
So if you could do it again, instead of purchasing the barreled action from Howa what would you have rather spent your money on for the same end goal?
I’ve been waiting for this update!!
Sorry it's taken so long- too much happening, but all good!
gavintoobe not a problem for me! I loved your 300 PRC and 6.5 PRC videos. Also looking forward to your 300 RUM to 300 PRC video!
gavintoobe could you please make a bedding video for this krg stock, I have the same one in the gray and would like to know how you bed it.
Thanks
I know this is an old video, but how hard was it to get the factory barrel off?
Great story. However not a fan of the twisted glutes. Shoulda went straight with them.
@gavintoobe - Enjoyed the video and looking forward to the next. Do you typically need to bed a KRG Bravo? Want to use one on my next rifle and would be handy to know. Thanks-
I have to ask, why didn't you consider setting the barrel back a thread or two and rechambering? Seems like the Howa barrel wanted to shoot, had the chamber been squared away. I'll frame that in by saying I'm a spendthrift (Cheap Bastard) and I may have went there first, you already had reamers and gauges in mind.
I really wanted to try an IBI barrel!
I'd like to see toy try krg's new adjustable buttstock coming out ~ Feb 20th!!
How did you get an IBI barrel into the US with the stupid ITAR rules? Just got a Howa HCR in 6mm as well and it isn’t shooting that great. Took cheap Cabela’s Covenant Scope off and put Vortex HST on off my Lapua and we’ll see how that goes. Also gonna cut 1 1/3 coils off trigger spring to bring that down. Hopefully this will fix my issues as I don’t have all the tools and know how you have! I did manage to swap the barrel on my Savage 10TR .308 with a McGowan prefit from Mystic Precision which worked out well though!
Say you really wanted to keep this as a budget build and you got a rifle that shot 1 to 1.5 MOA out of the box. Is it possible to say bump the chamber forward 0.15" with a new cutter and reamer then adjust the thread, shoulder etc to suit?? You'd only be losing that 0.15" in barrel length and keeping an other wise good shooting barrel.
You could certainly do that. You would also want to slug and lap the barrel since that could’ve been the culprit (the bore).
Hi Could you do a video on re-cambering the factory barrel to see how it performs with a custom chamber?
Best trigger for the Howa 1500 is the Jard.
hey brother! love the build videos! im a gunsmith and my career path has led me away from bolt guns but i still love building them in my spare time. what are the dial indicators that you use after you drill your prebore?
I have a howa 6.5 creedmoor 24inches Barrel HCR I haven't had any problems at all Factory loads and I do my own reloads haven't had one that experience I can hit for her to guards dead center every time up to a 1000 no problem from 1 although it to a 1000 yd haven't had 1 problem whatsoever
Did you have any problems with the AICS magazine with the howa 1500 action?
I build a lot of guns from howa actions. I think the rifle basix varmint trigger is a better trigger. Set at one pound.
I bought the 300 prc howa barreled action. How do I measure the freebore? The spec says 0.38 what should a precision rifle freebore be machined to?
So I was wondering if you could trim the threaded portion off and re-chamber the original barrel. Maybe make it a “ranch” style barrel
You could, and afterwards you could end up with a barrel that still won't shoot :)
gavintoobe just a thought. Love the vids keep up the awesome work
I love my Howa rifles. Own 2 in 6.5 CM and 308 and they shoot lights out. My question is with your machining skills why are you messing with a factory Howa otc barreled action.?
Do a bergara premier barreled action from brownells.
Great informative video’s. With all the machinists equipment you have, you should go into business making rifles. I’d buy one from you with your attention to detail
Hey can have my money 💰 too lol .
Hmm.. you have me thinking on rebarreling my savage 243 into 6 creed. Can it be done ?
Nicely done Gavin.
I shoot 243 1 in 8 twist Shilen 26 inch stainless. Have shot groups equal to the 6mm creedmore. dropped a coyote today about 300 yards with it. Yes you can rebarrel savages and pick what ever cartridge fits the length of your action.
What torque are you using on the front and back screw? Usually on a chassis you run 65 inch pounds in the front and start with around 20 inch pounds and increase in 5 pound increments till the groups seem to tighten up. Did you true the bolt face?
Next. Budget Bergara B14 build with custom barrel and caliber. Just kidding.
PS.: Although.... I´d really like to know your thoughts on the off the shelf Bergara B14/Premier HMR/Pro rifles. Especially in .300 PRC.
Your skills and investment of time and knowledge are amazing. Kudos. That said, I would just by a Christensen Arms, Seekins Precision from the start and get a superior quality rifle that doesn't need upgrades. It seems kind of a waste to buy a rifle and then buy it again with a new custom barrel, trigger, etc.
Rebarrel just sharpen the lead or change lead angles🤔🤔 😊
Awsome job Gavin! I been thinking about getting a 6mm creedmoor what budget rifle do you recommend at around $1,000? What do you think about Tikka actions I have a tikka t3 ctr 6.5 creedmoor for target shooting and a Tikka t3 300winmag for hunting and the tikka action is like butter I like the Tikka action better than the Howa action but to each their own I figure you know rifle tech a heck of a lot better than me!
Tikka is the winner.
when are you going to do the video on the 6.5 PRC bedding the scope rail rings
Still catching up from SHOT and Gordy's Class in Dec. LOTS COMING!!!!!
The threading trick is once you learn how to thread in reverse upside down away from the spindle you'll never thread imperial with the half nut lever again in your life
I was going to get a howa american flag whole rifle. And I think they're phasing them out. So I ended up going the same route you went I got a barreled action from brownells and one of the last 100 that howa had. Can you tell me what clip you use. Mike
DId you try lapping the barrel? I've seen huge improvements in new barrels after lapping.
Never mind, with that much free bore lapping would have only made things worse. Great info.
Exactly! :)