Back during my gigging days, I actually used a 5CM, the 5th cable being midi. That way I could hook up my Boss GT10 with my Triamp in a way that let me switch amp-channels while switching patches.
Dumb question.... but you have the FX loop on at all time right? I ask as I am trying to set up mine on a Recto. With the FX loop off the OD models in the front sound amazing.... but no Delay or reverb as loop is off. But when I engage the FX loops the sound looses some life. Any suggestions? Cheers!
Thanks for this video - I was having serious noise issues with the hx - (only 2 days old) I simply - couldn’t find a fix - I then tried your suggestion of reducing the return block volume (my amp - victory v130) required a reduction of between 6.9 - 8db) Now I’m getting fantastic tones !! Really made a huge difference ! If I hadn’t watched your video - that box was going back next week ! I had tried the helix months ago and loved how intuitive it was but I hated that it wasn’t true bypass - I found it changed the core tone of my amp too much (for my ears) so I returned it. When I heard the hx was true bypass I really WANTED to try it and love it , as these boxes offer so much flexibility and huge potential for creativity. I was ready to return the hx - thank goodness I found your video before I did , as I’m getting fantastic tones out of it now. Rock on
I’m using this method for my noise gate my pre amp is my drive/dist. Where do input my delay pedal? Between the pedal and the amp input or between the pedal and the effects loop?
It's easy with the Boss MS-3 and a Peavey JSX, especially if you have a patchbay and a cable snake. Guitar signal goes into the MS-3 input, then L3 Send to input of the JSX, the Effects Loop Send goes to the L3 return of the MS-3, then you have the effects in the loop from the MS-3, then the Left (Mono) output of the MS-3 goes to the Effects Loop Return of the JSX. You can put boosts and overdrives in L1 and L2 of the MS-3. You can also change channels on the amp with the MS-3 patches if you have a 7-Pin DIN > TRS adapter cable, you just run that to the CTL OUT of the MS-3 and set up the two switches on the Output menu for each patch so that you get Clean, Crunch, or Ultra as needed (the cable needs to leave the effects loop always on). I also have a buffer after the Send of L3 and a Behringer HD400 under my board between the L3 send and return and the relevant jacks in the patchbay. The buffer sends the strongest signal through the 6m cable to the amp input (not needed for the effects loop as it is buffered) while the HD400 prevents ground loops by ensuring that only the MS-3 output (rather than L3) is a path to ground.
Glenn Fricker mentioned having an open closet which he used as a giant bass trap. As well as storing your amp heads, do you use your closet for the same application?
Well done! I watched a few videos concerning my HeadRush Prime, JP2C and thought we have different gear your video was logical and straight forward- Thank you now on to jamming
Super cool method. One way I always really like to think about it is you essentially put the pre-amp of the real amplifier in the fx loop of the processor (in this case the Helix) which allows you to consistently switch out pre-amps while using the processor. Love the concept of using the 4CM.
hi bruce and all his followers. i plan to buy my first tube amplifier (6505+) and will be used along with a pod hd pro x. i want to know if i can use the pod hd pro x as my clean channel because i'll be using the amp's dirty channel only through 4 cable method. so i have the amp's rhythm and lead and pod hd pro x's clean amp sims as my third channel. i hope i explained myself clear. thanks!
1:38 And you can also use the Helix Preamp models into your valve amp, or even use the Helix L&R Main out for your stereo Wet signal while using the valve amp for your Dry signal... that kind of stuff :)
I see the new Sterling mic there off to the side, I hope you are going to review the new lineup soon! I'm trying to gather more solid info on the active ribbon version.
I have the HD500x and have experimented with this method for ever and it sucks the tone out of my EVH. 3 questions: Why line out vs. amp out on the pod? With the HD500x global EQ on or off? Level settings in the mixer block? Would be greatfull for any clarification. :)
Hi there,nice video and explanations,have one question,how can i make the line 6 to be the foot switch to change from channel 1 to over drive/lead on my amp from the line 6.i am using firehawk,and even the hd500x,and different amps in hand from laney to peavey ,randal and all have send and return .
Glad to see a new vid on the 4 cable method. In my experiences with this method through my HD pro I would get digital white noise in the background of my patches, is that not there with the Helix??
Man, I have a Triple Rectifier Rev G and a 2009 Dual Rec and they both have the basically unusable parallel loops that Boogie used to use. I've been trying to use the 4CM for years, and it's just impossible to get a decent sound. Any tips, or should I just mod the amps?
Good video. Wondering if anyone can help me. I'm using the M13 with the four cable method and am trying to add a Digitech Jam Man looper into the mix where I can use the looper on (clean and dirty channels) and have it loop properly sounding not mushy. Can anyone advise me on how to get it into the mix properly? Much appreciated.
Probably a dumb question, but with 4cm, can you bypass the amps preamp altogether and run a modeled preamp into the actual poweramp? If you can, that would allow you to, for example, get some Fender like cleans through an amp that may not have the best clean tone, but still use the amps preamp and channels for crunch and distortion.
That's exactly what I do with the POD HD500x, works like a charm for me, I just wonder if i would get a better signal by investing in a nice clean poweramp instead of running it through my 120wat line6 on a clean chanel
What I am getting at with my question is that, when using the 4cm, you could have a preset on your HD500x that bypasses the amps preamp substituting a modeled preamp. Then you could have a different preset that utilizes the amps preamp and uses no modeling, just effects. If you only have a one channel amp this essentially turns it into a multi channel amplifier. Like in Fluff's case, if you have a Rectifer it is unlikely you are going to want to use the Treadplate model instead of the real thing
If you turn the fx loop off on the modeler for a setting like that then it would be just like having the guitar straight into modeller with it's output going to the physical amps fx return and just hitting the power amp so you could use whatever amp model you want. 4cm basically just swaps an amp block in the modeller with an fx loop block for a physical amp
I have a boss gt100 and I assume the concept is the same. How can I make, for example, patch 1 clean on my amp and not the pedal, and then use the pedal to change to patch 2 with the distortion of channel 3 on my amp? I have a mesa boogie triple rectifier. There are no videos explaining this for the gt100 so I'm looking further into other pedals and how they do it. Would be an excellent video for everyone!
Can the tubescreamer models in the Helix boost the input of an amp like the real thing? Can a real tubescreamer in effects loop 2, put before the amp in the chain (4cm), keep its boost effect or does it get "levelled" when going through the helix? Basically both questions are the same: do i need a real tubescreamer and if so, does it work in the loop or will i have to switch it seprerately?
I use an ol Digitech RP355. Has no effects loop but I send the output from it to just the effects return on the effects loop on my amp. This cancels all amp controls which lets me get all my tone from the pedal. My modulations sound way better and the pedal does have the ability to act like separate stomp boxes as well. Just an idea for those who have a multi-effects unit without an effects loop on it.
Hi Ryan, Thanks for a greta tutorial. However, I have a Marshall DSL20CR and all of the effects go to the effect loop on my Marshall, i.e. nothing happens when I change volume/eq on the amp. What am I doing wrong? Do you have a remote control for your amp FX loop? If so do you engage the amp FX Loop with the remote control? Best, Hans
what does it mean when you Run a cable from the guitar, to an OD/Tuner/Noise Gate, from that to the front of the amp, then utializing your FX pedals via the send/return. Still technically the 4 cable method right? even tho... there are more cables involved.... Guitar (cable) Pedals in Front of Amp OD's etc (Cable) - AMP - (Send Cable) FX side of pedal board (Return Cable) Back to amp to Cab. Still 4 cables. Of course little patch cables connecting pedals, but the main 4 are set up in that way?
Been searching for videos that made this setup simple and yours was awesome! It seems simple until you try and do it without a guide. Great guide and awesome video.
For everyone if you're amp has midi you can program channel switching into your patches by just hooking up the midi cable and depending on your amp you can save the channel on the amp easily then save your patch and it will simultaneously switch your amps channel with your patch.
Are there two four cable methods? I saw another video where a guy went: Guitar into Processor Input > Processor Send to Amp Input > Amp Send into Processor Return > Processor Output into Amp Return
When I was playing shows, and I had an HD500X, my bandmate (who also uses multi-effects units), and multiple sound guys, recommended leaving the master volume all the way up, and setting the volume per patch with the "mixer" in the unit to avoid accidents from bumping the master volume knob. Would you recommend this as well? Or is it best to just take the time to toy with everything until you make it work? Is leaving the master volume all the way up making it harder than it needs to be? Thanks
If you crank the master volume all the way up, you'll burn out the caps in your power-stage before long. That is not a cheap-fix in the slightest, either.
You really don't want an amp like a Mesa-Boogie or a Marshall on full volume. They are ridiculously loud for most gigs, and even though you are controlling the volume with your FX patch, you might hit a wrong button where you don't have the patch volume backed off and you risk blowing your amp or speakers. Most of the pros almost never actually have their amps up all the way anymore. There's just no need for it. A friend of mine had a Marshall DSL 2000, and I don't think he ever had it beyond 3 or 4, and it was still way too loud for most gigs.
hey thank you for the good video! i tried hooking up my pod x3 live to my engl rack e530 using this method, i activated the loop and everything is working but the sound is ned loud at all, and i cant seem to find a way to make it loud? on the b ack od the engl there is only a line level and that doesnt help and of the pod i tried a lot of volume knob but nothing is working .. any ideas?
Hi mate how would it work plugging a boss metal zone through effects return then using built in effects on the amp, in this case Marshall Valvetate AVT100? I assume still four cable method but if you or anyone here can clarify please :) a cable from guitar to input of metal zone then cable from output of metal zone into effects return does not allow built in effects of the amp as it stands
I also have a problem (i am using a TH30 without a master level), and the sound level difference is huge between the AMP simulation and my real amp distortion when i switch from one to another :(
Hey Fluff, Great Video as usual. Can you do a video for the set up of a BOSS MS3 into a Mesa Boogie JP2C and Mesa Boogie Mark IV. I have the two amps and having difficulty getting the Mark IV to switch channels. My current set up is the BOSS MS3 into the JP2c and I'm changing channels via a MIDI Cable. I want to introduce the Mark IV of clean passages (intro's with delays and big reverts etc.) turn the MARK IV off for distorted verses and the back on for distorted choruses. I hope this makes sense... LOL
can someone pretty please explain 4cm using a Line 6 pod X3 live (or similar) with external overdrive or booster? can't seem to find an accurate respond to this.
How is any of this considered a new idea? I've been doing that since I upgraded from my first practice amp, and I've been playing for 17 years. If you don't want your master volume pot to get bumped, just take the knob off and put gaffer tape over the shaft.
you have been playing 17 years... wow .. that's a long time. So you remember the old times when there was no profiling amps like the Kemper, and all we had was modeling amps like the Line6 and we were happy to have them. I started playing electric guitar in 1981 (I was 14yrs old) after seeing Ozzy live w/Randy Rhoads because he had recently left my favorite band...Black Sabbath.. My first electric guitar was a 1968 Gibson SG...because my fav band was.......... Black Sabbath. My dad paid $225 for it. I got my first Marshall 100 watt head 4 years later and it had an fx loop and I did the 4wire method back then using my Marshall and an old Intersound IVP pre-amp that had 2 different fx loops in it. So I ran a Lexicon pcm41 and a Delta Lab delay into it. There was no midi yet ... most midi came out in 1986.. but it was expensive... so everything was switched via a controller I built using a multiplexing switching IC... which was an early foot controlled fx loop controller. Bradshaw was using similar designs until midi became avail in the mid 80's I still use the 4 wire method occasionally. With modern midi foot controllers and the ability to use C.C. to change parameters and switch on the fx within the patch the method's full potentials are finally realized... not like in the midi 80's...Technology evolves so quickly we rarely get to exploit all the possibilities of some of our equipment before that technology moves on to the next "thing". So sometimes its a good idea to revisit those old methods and see what new ways we can use those old methods.... good luck INF1D3L010. And keep trying new things and re-examine those old methods... some of us old guys actually had a few tricks up our sleeves. As you continue your journey you will no doubt develop a ton of your own tricks. Share your wisdom with the younger generation like Fluff does. If we don't... then electric guitars will fade away into history. And that would suck worse than disco... and yes... DISCO STILL SUCKS.
Wouldn't mind hearing how the 4 cable method sounds vs just running one of these processors with no head, an amp sim, and effects in the loop of the sim.
Hi Fluff! I'm glad that there are recently so many "touring-related" videos. You take on questions for live players and not only home recording guys. Thats awesome!
Can you talk in your next FAQ Monday about what Jarrod Alonge said about youtube going down hill. I am a small but aspiring channel myself and right now do it more for fun. I just wanted to know your thoughts. Thanks Fluff!
So if I wanna use presets or downloaded tones with the 4 cable method, they will sound better if I insert the FX loop after the amp in the preset patch?
hey fluff, I already saw (and that's used by some other processors and some switchers, for sure) you plug the guitar into the input, the you loop send into the input of the amp, then amp loop send into processor return and finally the processor/switcher final send to the fx return (i don't know if this configuration is used more on stuff with stereo output) but i'm pretty sure that's the method/wiring sugested by dan/gigrig and the tc G-System/Nova system. I Also see this as the description of the method over the internet.
Hey. Watching this right now in order to set up an L6 X3L into a 50x 5153. Your channel has always been helpful, you even responded to me here and on twitter. Fan for life, man, and thanks for the vid. Ive been trying to read about this sh*t for 2 days now, and this helped. 🤘🏻💀🤘🏻🎸
Thanks Ryan, I found this really helpful. I've had a kemper for a while and recently purchased a Helix Lt to integrate the effect with. This was a straight forward experience, thanks to you I'm now back to learning guitar rather than being lost in signal processing options. Cheers👊
Hi I follow you on your TH-cam channel. And I really appreciate all your knowledge and demos that you present on various products that are going out to the market. Recently I bought the Headrush Pedalbord. I studied the Manual, and intended to use Headrush punctually with my amplifier (Legacy 3 from Carvin), with the 4 cable methods system. With my amplifier it does`t work it kept without sound. I asked for support from Headrush (they sent me a suggestion, which does not work and after that I never received any reply from them). In attachment i send there answer: "With regards to your previous message, if you wish to use this as the FX Loop for other amps you will need to firstly ensure that you're plugging your guitar into your amp and not the pedalboard. Once this has been carried out, please connect the FX return R from your pedalboard to the FX Send on your amp and vice versa. If you have connected all of your cables, please then click on the three dots on the top right to access your global settings. Under Audio Configuration, please then select the rig input as FX return R as this will allow the headrush to receive the send from your amp. If this has been set, please then create a new rig where you will be able to add all of your FX. Please ensure that you firstly create the FX Loop patch before you add any of your FX." I saw on your youtube channel how to make a connection with 4 cable methods system. With your knowledge and experience with Headrush and other amplifiers can you suggest what can be the problem or the solution? PS. I contacted Carvin and I never got an answer Regards Paulo
From my experience with 4CM on any device that I have tried(AX8, AXFX2, Helix...) is that it's a tone and feel sucker. So much AD to DA conversion going on I guess.
This is awesome! And kind of crazy, I've been looking for a video like this to show me how to connect my Rocktron Prophesy II to my Peavey 6534. Looking forward to part 2 cause that is also something that I have been looking into.
They are pretty hard to find now. I actually prefer it over the 6505. The clean channel is spectacular and the lead channel is not as harsh as the 6505 in my opinion.
You didnt explain each action taking place and the point in the chain that it is happening. Ex. Dry goes in, non-time based comes out here, gets sent there, then the same for time based effects.
Jay Menace can you control the amp channels with the x3, if the amp doesn't have midi? I keep waiting for the second part of this video to see how it's done. Come on Fluff😆
Saphrox Studios Guitar Tuition yep, you sure can. I'm going to Upload a video soon on an in depth explanation on how to used the 4 cable method, channnel switching, and dialing your tone using the Line 6 Pod X3 Live. Be sure to subscribe to my channel and hit that notification button so you'll know when it's up.
So you can just play without utilizing the Helix. You have to either unplug shit or have a patch with just an fx loop block, otherwise the volume will be insanely loud.
Whoops you explain hooking it up wrong. It's guitar into helix input - helix fx send to front of amp - amps fx send to helix return - helix main output to amps fx return.
See my comment above. With a 5150 you need to set it up with a simple TRS cable between the amp footswitch and the control out on your processor. Set one switch to turn the effects loop on and the other to whichever channel you want to work for the patch. The 5150 does not have a 'crunch' switch (except on the 5150 II with the DIN cable footswitch) so you will still have to operate crunch via the switch on the front of the amp but you can change between Rhythm and Lead.
You can really hear the clarity of any effect you want to add so you can understand that less is better, not more... Better. hahaa. This will enhance garbage too so, buyer beware. A nod to the it goes to 11 guys. Thanks for this R,B & G!
From 4CM? On my MS-3 I put a Behringer HD400 on the cables that go to the input and effects loop send on the amp. This breaks the ground loop that can arise from multiple paths to ground. If you are running the unit mono that's all you will need. If you are running stereo you will need a second one to break the ground on ONE (e.g., right) of the outputs. I also have a buffer between the L3 send on my MS-3 and the HD400 cable going to the amp input , that counters any tone suck from the HD400 and the 6m cable to the input. Effects loops are generally buffered so no need for one on the way back.
Back during my gigging days, I actually used a 5CM, the 5th cable being midi. That way I could hook up my Boss GT10 with my Triamp in a way that let me switch amp-channels while switching patches.
Dumb question.... but you have the FX loop on at all time right? I ask as I am trying to set up mine on a Recto. With the FX loop off the OD models in the front sound amazing.... but no Delay or reverb as loop is off. But when I engage the FX loops the sound looses some life. Any suggestions? Cheers!
Thanks for this video
- I was having serious noise issues with the hx - (only 2 days old) I simply - couldn’t find a fix - I then tried your suggestion of reducing the return block volume (my amp - victory v130) required a reduction of between 6.9 - 8db) Now I’m getting fantastic tones !!
Really made a huge difference ! If I hadn’t watched your video - that box was going back next week !
I had tried the helix months ago and loved how intuitive it was but I hated that it wasn’t true bypass - I found it changed the core tone of my amp too much (for my ears) so I returned it.
When I heard the hx was true bypass I really WANTED to try it and love it , as these boxes offer so much flexibility and huge potential for creativity.
I was ready to return the hx - thank goodness I found your video before I did , as I’m getting fantastic tones out of it now.
Rock on
I’m using this method for my noise gate my pre amp is my drive/dist. Where do input my delay pedal? Between the pedal and the amp input or between the pedal and the effects loop?
It's easy with the Boss MS-3 and a Peavey JSX, especially if you have a patchbay and a cable snake. Guitar signal goes into the MS-3 input, then L3 Send to input of the JSX, the Effects Loop Send goes to the L3 return of the MS-3, then you have the effects in the loop from the MS-3, then the Left (Mono) output of the MS-3 goes to the Effects Loop Return of the JSX. You can put boosts and overdrives in L1 and L2 of the MS-3. You can also change channels on the amp with the MS-3 patches if you have a 7-Pin DIN > TRS adapter cable, you just run that to the CTL OUT of the MS-3 and set up the two switches on the Output menu for each patch so that you get Clean, Crunch, or Ultra as needed (the cable needs to leave the effects loop always on). I also have a buffer after the Send of L3 and a Behringer HD400 under my board between the L3 send and return and the relevant jacks in the patchbay. The buffer sends the strongest signal through the 6m cable to the amp input (not needed for the effects loop as it is buffered) while the HD400 prevents ground loops by ensuring that only the MS-3 output (rather than L3) is a path to ground.
Does the Helix switch the Mesa's amp channels? How many channels are on the Mesa? How does it do that, if not via MIDI commands?
Glenn Fricker mentioned having an open closet which he used as a giant bass trap. As well as storing your amp heads, do you use your closet for the same application?
Could you, theoretically, use the master volume of the helix and control the overall volume of the amp? For, say, low volume gigs?
Well done! I watched a few videos concerning my HeadRush Prime, JP2C and thought we have different gear your video was logical and straight forward- Thank you now on to jamming
Super cool method. One way I always really like to think about it is you essentially put the pre-amp of the real amplifier in the fx loop of the processor (in this case the Helix) which allows you to consistently switch out pre-amps while using the processor. Love the concept of using the 4CM.
When's the next video, I am stoked to see how this works. I have a hd500x and was wondering if I can switch amp channels with it too.
You can if your amp is MIDI capable. It it is not you can get a MIDI controlled switcher like Voodoo Labs Control Switcher
What is the guitar you are using in this video? Sleek and nice, I want I want!
Question…. What cable to use for 4cm for helix? Ts or trs?
hi bruce and all his followers. i plan to buy my first tube amplifier (6505+) and will be used along with a pod hd pro x. i want to know if i can use the pod hd pro x as my clean channel because i'll be using the amp's dirty channel only through 4 cable method. so i have the amp's rhythm and lead and pod hd pro x's clean amp sims as my third channel. i hope i explained myself clear. thanks!
Do You have any presets available,i'd like to see how it sounds with 4 cable method into Mesa Boogie Dual rectifier which is what im using
Nice vid! Can I use the 4cm with an additional stompbox? Thank you.
1:38 And you can also use the Helix Preamp models into your valve amp, or even use the Helix L&R Main out for your stereo Wet signal while using the valve amp for your Dry signal... that kind of stuff :)
So the tone of my tube head will be into the chain of my modeling amp ? And i can control it into the software?
I don't know if Fluff did a video on the differences on how to use the FX Loop with stompbox pedals and through the guitar input with stompbox pedals.
I see the new Sterling mic there off to the side, I hope you are going to review the new lineup soon! I'm trying to gather more solid info on the active ribbon version.
Oh great! Sorry for not checking before hand.
I'd like to know your thoughts on the Ribbon though...
This is the best explanation on the 4 cm out there. Untechnified
I use the 4cm with my Helix(floor) and a Mesa Express 5:50+. Super versatile rig.
I have the HD500x and have experimented with this method for ever and it sucks the tone out of my EVH. 3 questions: Why line out vs. amp out on the pod? With the HD500x global EQ on or off? Level settings in the mixer block? Would be greatfull for any clarification. :)
Hi there,nice video and explanations,have one question,how can i make the line 6 to be the foot switch to change from channel 1 to over drive/lead on my amp from the line 6.i am using firehawk,and even the hd500x,and different amps in hand from laney to peavey ,randal and all have send and return .
Glad to see a new vid on the 4 cable method. In my experiences with this method through my HD pro I would get digital white noise in the background of my patches, is that not there with the Helix??
Man, I have a Triple Rectifier Rev G and a 2009 Dual Rec and they both have the basically unusable parallel loops that Boogie used to use. I've been trying to use the 4CM for years, and it's just impossible to get a decent sound. Any tips, or should I just mod the amps?
Sorry if it's a stupid question; Can I achieve the 4cm with a GMajor 2? I've heard I can't but I haven't tried to disprove.
Fluff, Jericho guitars, would you review one? Thanks
Good video. Wondering if anyone can help me. I'm using the M13 with the four cable method and am trying to add a Digitech Jam Man looper into the mix where I can use the looper on (clean and dirty channels) and have it loop properly sounding not mushy. Can anyone advise me on how to get it into the mix properly? Much appreciated.
Probably a dumb question, but with 4cm, can you bypass the amps preamp altogether and run a modeled preamp into the actual poweramp? If you can, that would allow you to, for example, get some Fender like cleans through an amp that may not have the best clean tone, but still use the amps preamp and channels for crunch and distortion.
That's exactly what I do with the POD HD500x, works like a charm for me, I just wonder if i would get a better signal by investing in a nice clean poweramp instead of running it through my 120wat line6 on a clean chanel
What I am getting at with my question is that, when using the 4cm, you could have a preset on your HD500x that bypasses the amps preamp substituting a modeled preamp. Then you could have a different preset that utilizes the amps preamp and uses no modeling, just effects. If you only have a one channel amp this essentially turns it into a multi channel amplifier.
Like in Fluff's case, if you have a Rectifer it is unlikely you are going to want to use the Treadplate model instead of the real thing
Sean Huntley year that's an interesting way to do it man
If you turn the fx loop off on the modeler for a setting like that then it would be just like having the guitar straight into modeller with it's output going to the physical amps fx return and just hitting the power amp so you could use whatever amp model you want. 4cm basically just swaps an amp block in the modeller with an fx loop block for a physical amp
I have a boss gt100 and I assume the concept is the same. How can I make, for example, patch 1 clean on my amp and not the pedal, and then use the pedal to change to patch 2 with the distortion of channel 3 on my amp? I have a mesa boogie triple rectifier. There are no videos explaining this for the gt100 so I'm looking further into other pedals and how they do it. Would be an excellent video for everyone!
Figured it out. Thanks for everyone's help........
@@ibanezrg320fm it depends on the footswitch configuration. If the footswitch is two button TRS it's really easy, anything else ,..
Can the tubescreamer models in the Helix boost the input of an amp like the real thing?
Can a real tubescreamer in effects loop 2, put before the amp in the chain (4cm), keep its boost effect or does it get "levelled" when going through the helix?
Basically both questions are the same: do i need a real tubescreamer and if so, does it work in the loop or will i have to switch it seprerately?
I tried the unity gain trick and got -8.5 too on my engl fireball 25. Thks. Now there is a balance.
I know all about this but still watched. I love it when you talk nerdy to me.
I use an ol Digitech RP355. Has no effects loop but I send the output from it to just the effects return on the effects loop on my amp. This cancels all amp controls which lets me get all my tone from the pedal. My modulations sound way better and the pedal does have the ability to act like separate stomp boxes as well. Just an idea for those who have a multi-effects unit without an effects loop on it.
Hi Ryan, Thanks for a greta tutorial. However, I have a Marshall DSL20CR and all of the effects go to the effect loop on my Marshall, i.e. nothing happens when I change volume/eq on the amp. What am I doing wrong? Do you have a remote control for your amp FX loop? If so do you engage the amp FX Loop with the remote control? Best, Hans
what does it mean when you Run a cable from the guitar, to an OD/Tuner/Noise Gate, from that to the front of the amp, then utializing your FX pedals via the send/return.
Still technically the 4 cable method right? even tho... there are more cables involved....
Guitar (cable) Pedals in Front of Amp OD's etc (Cable) - AMP - (Send Cable) FX side of pedal board (Return Cable) Back to amp to Cab.
Still 4 cables. Of course little patch cables connecting pedals, but the main 4 are set up in that way?
Ok I have a boss katana 50 and am getting a line 6 hd500x, do I need to do the 4 cable method?
So, if you use the four cable method, is it possible to use the amp tones from the amp head itself? Is that what everyone is saying?
Been searching for videos that made this setup simple and yours was awesome! It seems simple until you try and do it without a guide. Great guide and awesome video.
Are you not using the triple crown anymore?
What are you using for a guitar cabinet in this particular demo? Did I just miss where you mentioned that? Thanks! :)
For everyone if you're amp has midi you can program channel switching into your patches by just hooking up the midi cable and depending on your amp you can save the channel on the amp easily then save your patch and it will simultaneously switch your amps channel with your patch.
Are there two four cable methods? I saw another video where a guy went:
Guitar into Processor Input > Processor Send to Amp Input > Amp Send into Processor Return > Processor Output into Amp Return
When I was playing shows, and I had an HD500X, my bandmate (who also uses multi-effects units), and multiple sound guys, recommended leaving the master volume all the way up, and setting the volume per patch with the "mixer" in the unit to avoid accidents from bumping the master volume knob. Would you recommend this as well? Or is it best to just take the time to toy with everything until you make it work? Is leaving the master volume all the way up making it harder than it needs to be? Thanks
If you crank the master volume all the way up, you'll burn out the caps in your power-stage before long. That is not a cheap-fix in the slightest, either.
You really don't want an amp like a Mesa-Boogie or a Marshall on full volume. They are ridiculously loud for most gigs, and even though you are controlling the volume with your FX patch, you might hit a wrong button where you don't have the patch volume backed off and you risk blowing your amp or speakers. Most of the pros almost never actually have their amps up all the way anymore. There's just no need for it. A friend of mine had a Marshall DSL 2000, and I don't think he ever had it beyond 3 or 4, and it was still way too loud for most gigs.
Guys, multi-effects unit master volume all the way up. Not the amp
Did you ever do a video on switching channels on you Mesa Boogie Triple rectifier with Line ^ Helix?
Okay... but should the return be ts or trs
In the diagram shown at th-cam.com/video/Ku7VlVoH0vY/w-d-xo.html , where would you put a noise suppressor pedal relative to the multi-fx device?
What guitar are you holding in this video?
at minute 4:47 I hear a digital clip. It's normal?
i would imagine it would be best to use the amp for dirty tones only and maybe have all cleans from helix?
hey thank you for the good video! i tried hooking up my pod x3 live to my engl rack e530 using this method, i activated the loop and everything is working but the sound is ned loud at all, and i cant seem to find a way to make it loud? on the b ack od the engl there is only a line level and that doesnt help and of the pod i tried a lot of volume knob but nothing is working .. any ideas?
Hi mate how would it work plugging a boss metal zone through effects return then using built in effects on the amp, in this case Marshall Valvetate AVT100? I assume still four cable method but if you or anyone here can clarify please :) a cable from guitar to input of metal zone then cable from output of metal zone into effects return does not allow built in effects of the amp as it stands
Hello, Hello, I just recieved thé gx100 and I was wondering how to integrate my rc 500 looper in the 4 câble méthode with gx100 ?
I also have a problem (i am using a TH30 without a master level), and the sound level difference is huge between the AMP simulation and my real amp distortion when i switch from one to another :(
This method on the RP1000 is a must, simply sounds amazing.
but without midi is unacceptable for me
Can i do this with a Marshall DSL?
Dood informative well spoken as always great video u do great work homi
Don’t see part 2 anywhere? 😔
Hey Fluff, Great Video as usual. Can you do a video for the set up of a BOSS MS3 into a Mesa Boogie JP2C and Mesa Boogie Mark IV. I have the two amps and having difficulty getting the Mark IV to switch channels. My current set up is the BOSS MS3 into the JP2c and I'm changing channels via a MIDI Cable. I want to introduce the Mark IV of clean passages (intro's with delays and big reverts etc.) turn the MARK IV off for distorted verses and the back on for distorted choruses. I hope this makes sense... LOL
Are these pickups fluence classic?
So glad someone properly covered this.
It is how I have my setup and it’s pretty epic what you can do and how neat it is
can someone pretty please explain 4cm using a Line 6 pod X3 live (or similar) with external overdrive or booster? can't seem to find an accurate respond to this.
How is any of this considered a new idea? I've been doing that since I upgraded from my first practice amp, and I've been playing for 17 years. If you don't want your master volume pot to get bumped, just take the knob off and put gaffer tape over the shaft.
Was it something I said? : )'
you have been playing 17 years... wow .. that's a long time. So you remember the old times when there was no profiling amps like the Kemper, and all we had was modeling amps like the Line6 and we were happy to have them. I started playing electric guitar in 1981 (I was 14yrs old) after seeing Ozzy live w/Randy Rhoads because he had recently left my favorite band...Black Sabbath.. My first electric guitar was a 1968 Gibson SG...because my fav band was.......... Black Sabbath. My dad paid $225 for it. I got my first Marshall 100 watt head 4 years later and it had an fx loop and I did the 4wire method back then using my Marshall and an old Intersound IVP pre-amp that had 2 different fx loops in it. So I ran a Lexicon pcm41 and a Delta Lab delay into it. There was no midi yet ... most midi came out in 1986.. but it was expensive... so everything was switched via a controller I built using a multiplexing switching IC... which was an early foot controlled fx loop controller. Bradshaw was using similar designs until midi became avail in the mid 80's I still use the 4 wire method occasionally. With modern midi foot controllers and the ability to use C.C. to change parameters and switch on the fx within the patch the method's full potentials are finally realized... not like in the midi 80's...Technology evolves so quickly we rarely get to exploit all the possibilities of some of our equipment before that technology moves on to the next "thing". So sometimes its a good idea to revisit those old methods and see what new ways we can use those old methods.... good luck INF1D3L010. And keep trying new things and re-examine those old methods... some of us old guys actually had a few tricks up our sleeves. As you continue your journey you will no doubt develop a ton of your own tricks. Share your wisdom with the younger generation like Fluff does. If we don't... then electric guitars will fade away into history. And that would suck worse than disco... and yes... DISCO STILL SUCKS.
Fair enough.
Is that a Red Seas Fire tee??
Ell Leigh Fire ass Red Seas Fire \m/
I have to use the 6 Cable Method. Extra 2 for Channel and on board Reverb. So many Cables.
Can you make a Vlog where you show us how you and rest repose write songs
Wouldn't mind hearing how the 4 cable method sounds vs just running one of these processors with no head, an amp sim, and effects in the loop of the sim.
@ryanbruce what model of guitar is that
Hi Fluff! I'm glad that there are recently so many "touring-related" videos. You take on questions for live players and not only home recording guys. Thats awesome!
Yo Fluff, on the video you said
Guitar -> Helix (in) / Helix (send) -> Mesa (Return) / Mesa (Send) -> Helix (return) / Helix (output) -> Mesa (input)
But on the diagram you had
Guitar -> Helix (in) / Helix (send) -> Mesa (Input) / Mesa (Send) -> Helix (return) / Helix (output) -> Mesa (return)
Why's that?
Can you talk in your next FAQ Monday about what Jarrod Alonge said about youtube going down hill. I am a small but aspiring channel myself and right now do it more for fun. I just wanted to know your thoughts. Thanks Fluff!
As long as you're content is "family friendly" then you won't encounter some of the problems these other people are having with getting demonetized
Allen Harrison so, agree to being censored then?
So if I wanna use presets or downloaded tones with the 4 cable method, they will sound better if I insert the FX loop after the amp in the preset patch?
It would be sick if you can do a similar video with the bias head, and a comparison with the Bias against the helix with the IR's, just a thought ❤️
hey fluff, I already saw (and that's used by some other processors and some switchers, for sure) you plug the guitar into the input, the you loop send into the input of the amp, then amp loop send into processor return and finally the processor/switcher final send to the fx return (i don't know if this configuration is used more on stuff with stereo output) but i'm pretty sure that's the method/wiring sugested by dan/gigrig and the tc G-System/Nova system. I Also see this as the description of the method over the internet.
Same with Boss units.
Hey. Watching this right now in order to set up an L6 X3L into a 50x 5153. Your channel has always been helpful, you even responded to me here and on twitter. Fan for life, man, and thanks for the vid. Ive been trying to read about this sh*t for 2 days now, and this helped. 🤘🏻💀🤘🏻🎸
Thanks Ryan, I found this really helpful. I've had a kemper for a while and recently purchased a Helix Lt to integrate the effect with. This was a straight forward experience, thanks to you I'm now back to learning guitar rather than being lost in signal processing options. Cheers👊
Hi
I follow you on your TH-cam channel.
And I really appreciate all your knowledge and demos that you present on various products that are going out to the market.
Recently I bought the Headrush Pedalbord. I studied the Manual, and intended to use Headrush punctually with my amplifier (Legacy 3 from Carvin), with the 4 cable methods system. With my amplifier it does`t work it kept without sound. I asked for support from Headrush (they sent me a suggestion, which does not work and after that I never received any reply from them). In attachment i send there answer:
"With regards to your previous message, if you wish to use this as the FX Loop for other amps you will need to firstly ensure that you're plugging your guitar into your amp and not the pedalboard.
Once this has been carried out, please connect the FX return R from your pedalboard to the FX Send on your amp and vice versa. If you have connected all of your cables, please then click on the three dots on the top right to access your global settings. Under Audio Configuration, please then select the rig input as FX return R as this will allow the headrush to receive the send from your amp.
If this has been set, please then create a new rig where you will be able to add all of your FX. Please ensure that you firstly create the FX Loop patch before you add any of your FX."
I saw on your youtube channel how to make a connection with 4 cable methods system. With your knowledge and experience with Headrush and other amplifiers can you suggest what can be the problem or the solution?
PS. I contacted Carvin and I never got an answer
Regards
Paulo
Great video now I just need to learn how to integrate it with my kemper and h9 with CCs via midi
So with this I can’t run an amp model into my fender combo without bypassing the clean channel?
You’ve done an excellent job explaining this and how it really works. You’re awesome. Thank you.
From my experience with 4CM on any device that I have tried(AX8, AXFX2, Helix...) is that it's a tone and feel sucker. So much AD to DA conversion going on I guess.
This is awesome! And kind of crazy, I've been looking for a video like this to show me how to connect my Rocktron Prophesy II to my Peavey 6534. Looking forward to part 2 cause that is also something that I have been looking into.
Vic Lopez how do you like that 6534? I've been dying to try one, since I used to use a 5150 many years ago, but I can't find the 6534s anywhere!
They are pretty hard to find now. I actually prefer it over the 6505. The clean channel is spectacular and the lead channel is not as harsh as the 6505 in my opinion.
Best cable method ever 10/10
You didnt explain each action taking place and the point in the chain that it is happening.
Ex. Dry goes in, non-time based comes out here, gets sent there, then the same for time based effects.
Lol. I was just about to film a video on the same topic. Using a pod x3 instead.
Thanks 🙏🏼 there's not a whole lot of videos on this topic.
Jay Menace can you control the amp channels with the x3, if the amp doesn't have midi?
I keep waiting for the second part of this video to see how it's done. Come on Fluff😆
Saphrox Studios Guitar Tuition yep, you sure can.
I'm going to Upload a video soon on an in depth explanation on how to used the 4 cable method, channnel switching, and dialing your tone using the Line 6 Pod X3 Live.
Be sure to subscribe to my channel and hit that notification button so you'll know when it's up.
How Fluff speaks:
This is my first. Sentence This is my second. Sentence.
Wow, ten years of running my gmajor thru my dual recto and had no idea of the 4 cable method.
B4its2L8guy can't be done with that unit unfortunately
So you can just play without utilizing the Helix. You have to either unplug shit or have a patch with just an fx loop block, otherwise the volume will be insanely loud.
Whoops you explain hooking it up wrong. It's guitar into helix input - helix fx send to front of amp - amps fx send to helix return - helix main output to amps fx return.
Nice job Flush. Real nice.
Glad someone else noticed. If you did it as stated you'd only be able to use the Line 6's pre-fx out effects
literally whats in the video
great info and video!
That Balaguer guitar is ridiculously beautiful
Don't know it doesn't work with my 5150 head, if I make send 1 and return 1 it workds, but just have a clean sound
See my comment above. With a 5150 you need to set it up with a simple TRS cable between the amp footswitch and the control out on your processor. Set one switch to turn the effects loop on and the other to whichever channel you want to work for the patch. The 5150 does not have a 'crunch' switch (except on the 5150 II with the DIN cable footswitch) so you will still have to operate crunch via the switch on the front of the amp but you can change between Rhythm and Lead.
duuude you're really close to 200k subs!!
Awesome and informative.
You can really hear the clarity of any effect you want to add so you can understand that less is better, not more... Better. hahaa. This will enhance garbage too so, buyer beware. A nod to the it goes to 11 guys. Thanks for this R,B & G!
Red Seas Fire T-shirt? Niiiiice!
Where part2?
I'm getting such a terrible hum using it... someone knows how to sove it?
From 4CM? On my MS-3 I put a Behringer HD400 on the cables that go to the input and effects loop send on the amp. This breaks the ground loop that can arise from multiple paths to ground. If you are running the unit mono that's all you will need. If you are running stereo you will need a second one to break the ground on ONE (e.g., right) of the outputs. I also have a buffer between the L3 send on my MS-3 and the HD400 cable going to the amp input , that counters any tone suck from the HD400 and the 6m cable to the input. Effects loops are generally buffered so no need for one on the way back.
@@XlouietheflyX hey bro! This is exactly what I did some months ago! HD400 saves lives 😅🤘🏼 thanks for the help anyway
Great stuff, Fluff. Interesting that you are Fluff but there is no fluff in your video...it's all meat. Thanks so much. :)
Details on the guitar? It's a beaut.
PSki80 it's baluguer (the Hyperion brand I don't know how to write it) thickett BB
Here you go, check it out for yourself brew....www.balaguerguitars.com/product/the-thicket-bb-standard/
It has wood and does the thing with strings ye