Strings lose tension because they deform and stretch over time. As it deforms its elasticity and playability characteristics change. So no matter what a used string will always play differently than fresh strings of the same make.
According to the book, Technical Tennis, strings do not deform unless subjected to high heat. If they deformed, according to the authors of this book, your string bed would become baggy. This does not happen even if the stringbed loses a lot of tension. One of the authors of this book is a physicist (and the tech guru at Tennis Warehouse). He has the data to back up his claim. But, like you say, strings do lose tension over time. For polyester strings, they lose several pounds right after coming from the stringing machine.
@@Fernwald84 Totally wrong, they are subject to creep i.e. elongation/deformation under constant load. I don't know how this Physicist measured things but for more than 100 years it is well known this phenomena in Engineering. So much for the guru.
@@claude7473 I think you misunderstand the situation. Yes, strings stretch slightly under constant load. That isn't the question/problem. What is important is whether the strings will resume their condition after a ball strike. The answer in the book, based on empirical data is that, yes, the strings resume their original position after being stretched/deformed by the ball strike, i.e., they do not lose elasticity.
@@Fernwald84 Perhaps the tests he performed were not precise enough to detect the minute deformations? In order for the strings to lose tension, either the knots are slipping or like Claude mentioned they are creeping/elongating, OR the physiochemical properties of the string are changing over time, ie. density, elasticity. Obviously we're talking about incredibly small magnitudes here. But it would seem that those small deformations are enough to affect how people perceive the playability of the strings.
There are 2 effects in play with tennis strings - plasticity (the irreversible increase of string length when stretched) and elasticity (reversible increase of string length or the snap-back effect). If your stinger doesn't do a pre-stretch of a string it will immediately loose some tension due to plasticity, especially after few strokes. But at some point this effect stops. It is best observed with guitar strings. A fresh set will noticeably loose pitch immediately during play, so guitarists tune them to pitch then stretch and then repeat the process several times. After that the string will hold the pitch well. Same with tennis strings. After string looses it's plasticity it will hold the tension it got to well for a while, until it starts loosing elasticity and the tension will then slowly decrease. So if you got from 55 to 48 on a raqcuet due to plasticity effect and it platoed after that, but on the other raquet your stringer does a pre-stretch and strings it at 48 then you will get more or less the same feel (though in reality it's hard to stretch the string evenely during play and then even harder to measure that correctly) However, if you got to 48 because your string already started loosing elasticity or on the second racquet the string was not pre-stretched they will feel very different.
OK good info. Quick follow up question: With the two identical racquets, strung with the same string, one at 55 lbs and the other at 48, will the tighter strung racquet lose tension faster than the looser one? You'd expect a lower string tension not to lose tension as fast because the strings aren't 'stretched out' as much. But does this theory hold true in practice?
My experience has shown that I get a perfect situation after my racquet strung with Technifibre NRG2 at 60 lbs has been used for about 6 hours or so. When I strung another at 55 and took it fresh out of the bag after using the 60 for six hours, I found that the strings weren't worn in enough yet so the ball was not as easy to control. That said, these strings have the best control just about four hours before they turn to yarn and snap, but in that narrow window the playability is hard to beat.
Can you please test this? Because I believe, what you say about the racket “feeling” tighter newly strung is waaay off, I think we have that belief because it actually is tighter then what we just played with before stringing. A newly strung racket feels softer aka, has more elasticity, than the same stretched out version with same static weight. However. The stretched out version now has a sporadic elasticity, which makes it be unreliable.
There is only so much elastic capacity for any string, and much less for poly vs synthetic/multi. Keeping it simple and sticking with poly, tension loss occurs in storage but much faster during play due to each successive hit diminishing that elastic reserve. When that elastic reserve is used up, that’s when poly is “bagged out” or “dead” and the stringbed will feel incredibly stiff and loss of control (as well as risk of injury) increases. Play with dead poly and suffer the consequences long term! A racquet strung with poly at 55lbs, that falls to 48lbs has less elastic reserve remaining than one strung at 48lbs to begin with. These two otherwise identical racquets will play and feel different. The effect and extent of this difference, and which is preferred will depend on the individual. The same way that not all pros ask for pre-stretch of their string jobs.
@@lchristophor3107 Take two rubber bands, one 3 inches and the other a foot. The one that is a foot long weighs more than the shorter one. Then stretch the 3-inch band to a foot. They both cover the same distance but one is at tension.
There's a lot of misunderstanding about string tension according to the book, Technical Tennis, authored by a physicist and a tennis player (the physicist is the technical guru at Tennis Warehouse). Speaking of polyester strings: the authors state that they will immediately lose 2-5 pounds before you even get to the court. If you play a nylon strung guitar you will know how quickly a polyester string will stretch when new. Secondly, there is no simple way to measure the tension of a string bed once it is established in a racket--measuring it in pounds, that is. There are measuring devices but they only give readings in a relative scale, not in pounds. Third, strings do not deform and lose elasticity over time unless they've been subjected to high heat. When they lose tension the sound they make hitting a ball drops in pitch and players associate this with a loss of power and elasticity. In fact, lower tension translates into more energy transfer to propelling the ball since the string loses less energy being deformed during a ball strike than the ball itself does. So, I think the best you could do in answering the question is to keep measuring the tension of the two rackets with the relative scale available. If, by chance, you can catch the time when the relative readings are equal, I would guess that the strings would play pretty similarly.
no experienced tennis player associates loss of tension with less power, the racket becomes noticeably more trampoliney. Assuming the tension has dropped with play there are grooves worn into the strings and will not play the same as the racquet strung at the lower tension.
Yes, a different string will make a difference. It is important to choose a string for the characteristics you to want to achieve from the racquet hits.
Hi, What's the difference between a six-one 95 team and a [proper] six-one 95, I e. Is the layup, stiffness, materials etc the same? I have 2 old six-one 95 teams, if i weight them up will I get the six-one 95 experience? Thanks Antony, London
If only that yellow round fluffy thing remained an absolute constant then perhaps it would matter to the average amateur as much as all the chat would make you believe. Slow mo the racket striking the ball, all the movement is in the squishyness (technical term) of that round thing. To the average joe hitting something you can no longer tell the brand of, well, why get hung up so much on your string and a couple of lbs of tension. New balls please!
Actually the strings also "squish" several inches. This is important because if they didn't then all the energy would be sent to the ball where over 50% would be lost in deforming the ball. The strings lose less energy when being stretched in the ball strike. That's why the expression "string loose for power, tight for control" works.
@@Fernwald84 there’s a few (not many) close up slow motion videos on here that show the compression is mainly in the ball, and definitely not several inches in the strings. The ball is pancaked at impact. In fact you can see bits of the ball coming through the strings in a square pattern at impact. If you are on about string stretch over time then we’re on about two different things. If you’re talking about impact it’s over 90% about what the ball is doing. My point was there’s a lot less bother about the ball, and lots of fuss about the 1-2% difference in string tension. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate both matter.
@@colsey6542 My main point was to claim that strings do not lose elasticity unless exposed to high heat or put under far more tension than occurs in a tennis racket. They do stretch during a ball strike as this video shows (th-cam.com/video/O2wMPW_ivBo/w-d-xo.html). Here it looks like about an inch deflection. On p. 83 of "Technical Tennis, there's a picture of a ball strike shown from the side of the racket. Here you can see the ball deflect the strings back beyond the opposite side of the frame, probably about an inch or so. The strings will also deflect towards the lower part of the frame on a topspin stroke as the racket head ascends upward. But, as you say, the amount of string stretching isn't that important. Rather it is the amount of energy the string absorbs vs the amount of energy the ball absorbs. This ratio determines how fast and far the ball will rebound off the string bed for a given swing speed and swing weight.
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [2/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qJbQs_nhjD4/mqdefault.jpg)
Strings lose tension because they deform and stretch over time. As it deforms its elasticity and playability characteristics change. So no matter what a used string will always play differently than fresh strings of the same make.
Spot on!
According to the book, Technical Tennis, strings do not deform unless subjected to high heat. If they deformed, according to the authors of this book, your string bed would become baggy. This does not happen even if the stringbed loses a lot of tension. One of the authors of this book is a physicist (and the tech guru at Tennis Warehouse). He has the data to back up his claim. But, like you say, strings do lose tension over time. For polyester strings, they lose several pounds right after coming from the stringing machine.
@@Fernwald84 Totally wrong, they are subject to creep i.e. elongation/deformation under constant load. I don't know how this Physicist measured things but for more than 100 years it is well known this phenomena in Engineering. So much for the guru.
@@claude7473 I think you misunderstand the situation. Yes, strings stretch slightly under constant load. That isn't the question/problem. What is important is whether the strings will resume their condition after a ball strike. The answer in the book, based on empirical data is that, yes, the strings resume their original position after being stretched/deformed by the ball strike, i.e., they do not lose elasticity.
@@Fernwald84 Perhaps the tests he performed were not precise enough to detect the minute deformations? In order for the strings to lose tension, either the knots are slipping or like Claude mentioned they are creeping/elongating, OR the physiochemical properties of the string are changing over time, ie. density, elasticity. Obviously we're talking about incredibly small magnitudes here. But it would seem that those small deformations are enough to affect how people perceive the playability of the strings.
There are 2 effects in play with tennis strings - plasticity (the irreversible increase of string length when stretched) and elasticity (reversible increase of string length or the snap-back effect).
If your stinger doesn't do a pre-stretch of a string it will immediately loose some tension due to plasticity, especially after few strokes. But at some point this effect stops. It is best observed with guitar strings.
A fresh set will noticeably loose pitch immediately during play, so guitarists tune them to pitch then stretch and then repeat the process several times. After that the string will hold the pitch well.
Same with tennis strings. After string looses it's plasticity it will hold the tension it got to well for a while, until it starts loosing elasticity and the tension will then slowly decrease.
So if you got from 55 to 48 on a raqcuet due to plasticity effect and it platoed after that, but on the other raquet your stringer does a pre-stretch and strings it at 48 then you will get more or less the same feel (though in reality it's hard to stretch the string evenely during play and then even harder to measure that correctly)
However, if you got to 48 because your string already started loosing elasticity or on the second racquet the string was not pre-stretched they will feel very different.
He's real quick into the point. Just the way I like it. : - D
Welcome to tennis spin, where we watch the video at 2x speed
hey let him. he needs to get to 10 minutes for analytics
OK good info. Quick follow up question: With the two identical racquets, strung with the same string, one at 55 lbs and the other at 48, will the tighter strung racquet lose tension faster than the looser one?
You'd expect a lower string tension not to lose tension as fast because the strings aren't 'stretched out' as much.
But does this theory hold true in practice?
My experience has shown that I get a perfect situation after my racquet strung with Technifibre NRG2 at 60 lbs has been used for about 6 hours or so. When I strung another at 55 and took it fresh out of the bag after using the 60 for six hours, I found that the strings weren't worn in enough yet so the ball was not as easy to control. That said, these strings have the best control just about four hours before they turn to yarn and snap, but in that narrow window the playability is hard to beat.
Can you please test this? Because I believe, what you say about the racket “feeling” tighter newly strung is waaay off, I think we have that belief because it actually is tighter then what we just played with before stringing.
A newly strung racket feels softer aka, has more
elasticity, than the same stretched out version with same static weight.
However. The stretched out version now has a sporadic elasticity, which makes it be unreliable.
Great content Harry! One of the best from your collection!!
I think educating people about strings helps
There is only so much elastic capacity for any string, and much less for poly vs synthetic/multi. Keeping it simple and sticking with poly, tension loss occurs in storage but much faster during play due to each successive hit diminishing that elastic reserve. When that elastic reserve is used up, that’s when poly is “bagged out” or “dead” and the stringbed will feel incredibly stiff and loss of control (as well as risk of injury) increases. Play with dead poly and suffer the consequences long term!
A racquet strung with poly at 55lbs, that falls to 48lbs has less elastic reserve remaining than one strung at 48lbs to begin with. These two otherwise identical racquets will play and feel different. The effect and extent of this difference, and which is preferred will depend on the individual. The same way that not all pros ask for pre-stretch of their string jobs.
Tension is the most important factor imo
Another factor is that the racquet strung at 55 weighs slightly less than the racquet at 48.
What??? How?
@@lchristophor3107 Take two rubber bands, one 3 inches and the other a foot. The one that is a foot long weighs more than the shorter one. Then stretch the 3-inch band to a foot. They both cover the same distance but one is at tension.
There's a lot of misunderstanding about string tension according to the book, Technical Tennis, authored by a physicist and a tennis player (the physicist is the technical guru at Tennis Warehouse). Speaking of polyester strings: the authors state that they will immediately lose 2-5 pounds before you even get to the court. If you play a nylon strung guitar you will know how quickly a polyester string will stretch when new. Secondly, there is no simple way to measure the tension of a string bed once it is established in a racket--measuring it in pounds, that is. There are measuring devices but they only give readings in a relative scale, not in pounds. Third, strings do not deform and lose elasticity over time unless they've been subjected to high heat. When they lose tension the sound they make hitting a ball drops in pitch and players associate this with a loss of power and elasticity. In fact, lower tension translates into more energy transfer to propelling the ball since the string loses less energy being deformed during a ball strike than the ball itself does. So, I think the best you could do in answering the question is to keep measuring the tension of the two rackets with the relative scale available. If, by chance, you can catch the time when the relative readings are equal, I would guess that the strings would play pretty similarly.
no experienced tennis player associates loss of tension with less power, the racket becomes noticeably more trampoliney. Assuming the tension has dropped with play there are grooves worn into the strings and will not play the same as the racquet strung at the lower tension.
Thanks
Especially for poly
How long does it take for a string to lose tension?
Hi question... How can you get the best out of a recreational tennis racquet. Will a good string will make a difference?
Yes, a different string will make a difference. It is important to choose a string for the characteristics you to want to achieve from the racquet hits.
Hi,
What's the difference between a six-one 95 team and a [proper] six-one 95, I e. Is the layup, stiffness, materials etc the same?
I have 2 old six-one 95 teams, if i weight them up will I get the six-one 95 experience?
Thanks
Antony, London
'Real quick and to the point'...I listen to Tennis Spin videos on 2x speed :)
Yeah but how much of a difference would it do to a typical recreational player, even intermediates playing 2-3x a week?
None at all.
That person would not watch this
To a recreational player, ignorance is bliss.
Best way to know is to try it
Great topic
No, they won't... They're Wilson racquets and each frame will have a different swing weight and balance point. 🤣
If only that yellow round fluffy thing remained an absolute constant then perhaps it would matter to the average amateur as much as all the chat would make you believe. Slow mo the racket striking the ball, all the movement is in the squishyness (technical term) of that round thing. To the average joe hitting something you can no longer tell the brand of, well, why get hung up so much on your string and a couple of lbs of tension. New balls please!
Actually the strings also "squish" several inches. This is important because if they didn't then all the energy would be sent to the ball where over 50% would be lost in deforming the ball. The strings lose less energy when being stretched in the ball strike. That's why the expression "string loose for power, tight for control" works.
@@Fernwald84 there’s a few (not many) close up slow motion videos on here that show the compression is mainly in the ball, and definitely not several inches in the strings. The ball is pancaked at impact. In fact you can see bits of the ball coming through the strings in a square pattern at impact. If you are on about string stretch over time then we’re on about two different things. If you’re talking about impact it’s over 90% about what the ball is doing. My point was there’s a lot less bother about the ball, and lots of fuss about the 1-2% difference in string tension. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate both matter.
@@colsey6542 My main point was to claim that strings do not lose elasticity unless exposed to high heat or put under far more tension than occurs in a tennis racket. They do stretch during a ball strike as this video shows (th-cam.com/video/O2wMPW_ivBo/w-d-xo.html). Here it looks like about an inch deflection. On p. 83 of "Technical Tennis, there's a picture of a ball strike shown from the side of the racket. Here you can see the ball deflect the strings back beyond the opposite side of the frame, probably about an inch or so. The strings will also deflect towards the lower part of the frame on a topspin stroke as the racket head ascends upward. But, as you say, the amount of string stretching isn't that important. Rather it is the amount of energy the string absorbs vs the amount of energy the ball absorbs. This ratio determines how fast and far the ball will rebound off the string bed for a given swing speed and swing weight.
th-cam.com/video/VHV1YbeznCo/w-d-xo.html&feature=share
@@colsey6542 impressive slo mo