welcomematstevescott to my understanding this is one of the techniques that's named colloquially. I've seen it be called sangaku garami, as well as merely hiza gatame. So idk if there is an official term for it. You get this with a few newaza type stuff. Things like guards, sweeps and some more complicated submission entries don't have officially documented names or, in many cases, are simply umbrella termed. For example, there are many variations of hadaka jime, but in BJJ (whose names are more widely known) they have names for each of them. Especially with chokes, for example we would call the bow and arrow, the sliding collar and all other similar chokes 'okuri eri jime', but as demonstrated they have specific names for each variation. I think because the judo terms are more umbrella like in that they identify techniques based not on how they look but the principles that govern their application it is both more useful but also detrimental in that more complicated techniques have no universal terminology (hence why 'jigoku jime' refers not to one specific technique, jigoku jime to one instructor is completely different to jigoku jime to another). It works both ways too, it can be more useful. For example seoi nage and seoi otoshi look very similar. In BJJ no instructor will know the difference between seoi nage and seoi otoshi, and similarly won't know the difference between uki goshi or ogoshi (in fact my instructor calls koshiguruma 'ogoshi with the hand round the head' even after i said what it was called in english and japanese) because they look the same. Whereas a judoka will understand when he should do seoinage, when he should do seoi otoshi; what footwork constitutes ogoshi, uki goshi or koshi guruma. So it's a double edged sword, the lack of standardisation of complex newaza maneuvres
Can you do a video on some basic applications of te gatame and kata te jime? Because i see some chokes which may constitute for katate jime, but the katate jime i see in my textbooks i can't understand. Similarly with te gatame, i know the application where you bend their arm behind their back, but there are some other te gatames that i see in old manuals that i don't understand how to apply
welcomematstevescott ah okay thank you. When i say 'te gatame' i don't specifically mean a wrist lock, though it may be a wrist lock which i am misinterpreting as being an armlock. I always thought they were armlocks in which only one arm is used to apply the pressure, as in the classic police style arm round the back, or where your opponent is flat on their front, you put kne knee about their elbow and lift the wrist with one hand. But given the knowledge that a wristlock may also be called 'te gatame' the technique i envision, which is the model in my textbooks, makes a lot more sense. Originally it appeared to be a technique where your arm applies pressure to the elbow, but it may be a wristlock. I'll see if i can find a video of it, since i'm sure i found one but it didn't really explain what makes the technique function
Thanks for the response. On the subject of Katate Jime, I checked to see what else I have that might be helpful to you and we will have a video on a rolling application of Katate Jime and Jigoku Jime on our channel available for viewing on Nov. 14, 2018.
welcomematstevescott ok thank you very much! th-cam.com/video/5D-W1SVIK4A/w-d-xo.html This is the video, i believe supervised by the Kodokan, which shows te gatame. The standing variation is the most confusing one, i understanding the sutemi, but imm not sure exactly what is applying the lock once the sutemi is applied. It may be a wristlock, it may be the arm of the hand holding the lapel, or it may be the twisting motion of the arm. The other variations i think i understand. The behind the back variation is simple enough, although i'd be curious as to whether the pressure is most efficiently applied by pushing the arm towards the head, or twisting it outwards. I think i understand the variation from the belt lift (the same belt lift used in ebi jime), and the final variation shown. I think the knee variation, and final variation they showed work on similar principles to ude garami except with one arm. It's primarily the first application i can't understand
That omoplata lock in judo is called Ashi-sankaku-garami. Loved the information as always.
You're right. I have always preferred to use the "Kickover" term to make it more specific.
welcomematstevescott to my understanding this is one of the techniques that's named colloquially. I've seen it be called sangaku garami, as well as merely hiza gatame. So idk if there is an official term for it. You get this with a few newaza type stuff. Things like guards, sweeps and some more complicated submission entries don't have officially documented names or, in many cases, are simply umbrella termed. For example, there are many variations of hadaka jime, but in BJJ (whose names are more widely known) they have names for each of them. Especially with chokes, for example we would call the bow and arrow, the sliding collar and all other similar chokes 'okuri eri jime', but as demonstrated they have specific names for each variation. I think because the judo terms are more umbrella like in that they identify techniques based not on how they look but the principles that govern their application it is both more useful but also detrimental in that more complicated techniques have no universal terminology (hence why 'jigoku jime' refers not to one specific technique, jigoku jime to one instructor is completely different to jigoku jime to another).
It works both ways too, it can be more useful. For example seoi nage and seoi otoshi look very similar. In BJJ no instructor will know the difference between seoi nage and seoi otoshi, and similarly won't know the difference between uki goshi or ogoshi (in fact my instructor calls koshiguruma 'ogoshi with the hand round the head' even after i said what it was called in english and japanese) because they look the same. Whereas a judoka will understand when he should do seoinage, when he should do seoi otoshi; what footwork constitutes ogoshi, uki goshi or koshi guruma. So it's a double edged sword, the lack of standardisation of complex newaza maneuvres
Jimmy makes solid points in this comment-thanks for posting it.
Do you have a video where there is a nogi option?
Good stuff like always.
👍
Real good stuff.
Glad you like it!
Can you recommend some good books on Ude Garami
Thank you.
Can you do a video on some basic applications of te gatame and kata te jime? Because i see some chokes which may constitute for katate jime, but the katate jime i see in my textbooks i can't understand. Similarly with te gatame, i know the application where you bend their arm behind their back, but there are some other te gatames that i see in old manuals that i don't understand how to apply
Will do-but when you call it "Te Gatame" are you referring to a wrist lock?
We have a video on our channel titled "Ebi Jime and Katate Jime." That might be helpful to you.
welcomematstevescott ah okay thank you. When i say 'te gatame' i don't specifically mean a wrist lock, though it may be a wrist lock which i am misinterpreting as being an armlock. I always thought they were armlocks in which only one arm is used to apply the pressure, as in the classic police style arm round the back, or where your opponent is flat on their front, you put kne knee about their elbow and lift the wrist with one hand. But given the knowledge that a wristlock may also be called 'te gatame' the technique i envision, which is the model in my textbooks, makes a lot more sense. Originally it appeared to be a technique where your arm applies pressure to the elbow, but it may be a wristlock. I'll see if i can find a video of it, since i'm sure i found one but it didn't really explain what makes the technique function
Thanks for the response. On the subject of Katate Jime, I checked to see what else I have that might be helpful to you and we will have a video on a rolling application of Katate Jime and Jigoku Jime on our channel available for viewing on Nov. 14, 2018.
welcomematstevescott ok thank you very much!
th-cam.com/video/5D-W1SVIK4A/w-d-xo.html
This is the video, i believe supervised by the Kodokan, which shows te gatame. The standing variation is the most confusing one, i understanding the sutemi, but imm not sure exactly what is applying the lock once the sutemi is applied. It may be a wristlock, it may be the arm of the hand holding the lapel, or it may be the twisting motion of the arm.
The other variations i think i understand. The behind the back variation is simple enough, although i'd be curious as to whether the pressure is most efficiently applied by pushing the arm towards the head, or twisting it outwards. I think i understand the variation from the belt lift (the same belt lift used in ebi jime), and the final variation shown. I think the knee variation, and final variation they showed work on similar principles to ude garami except with one arm. It's primarily the first application i can't understand
I gotta say you guys are awesome. Great demonstrations, explanations and variations.
Thank you!
Thank you Aesop! We appreciate your kind words!
The old knuckle brush technique. Haha. That's the kind of imagery I tend to remember though. Grazie!
Glad you like it Maximus. You're right, just about everyone uses that term!
I didn't know Sean connery practice judo