SAME HEAD SAME SHAFT TESTS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- SAME HEAD SAME SHAFT TESTS with Mark Crossfield and Dan from Torquay. The guys test two heads with one very very similar shaft to see what the effects are on the a club test. This is in response to a viewers comment about testing golf clubs and the best way to make a test fair.
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Every shaft put in Dan's hands is a "low launch" shaft. #getupdan. Great vlog.
Haha 😂
Haha. Merry Christmas to you and your family. Hope it's a safe and blessed one.
@@MarkCrossfield How can they say it's a low launching shaft?.......how does that work?....does it stop you presenting your "normal" loft to the ball?...it all has me bamboozeled!....Happy Christmas to you both and your families!
Lol
Hey Mark, how about testing 2 or 3 identical heads and shafts to see the possible variance within the same manufacturer.
Mark Mack he’s done it, he dragged a member from torquey to try a driver in ladies, reg, stiff and x stiff if I remember right, Dan did the same test.
It would be a waste of time. Manufacturing tolerances are so much better than human error in hitting golf balls.
I think you need to test the shafts with the same exact heads with same loft configuration to really see any difference. Driver heads have big influence on spin and launch conditions depending on the design and where the weighting is distributed.
Strike overrides all. However sometimes shafts and other equipment setup can influence strike. I've seen different shafts change a players path, angle of attack, and dynamic loft. I've also seen players who hit a "high launch" shaft lower than one that is "low launch" in the same head. Most of us are going to make subtle changes to our swings based on the way the clubs feel, even if we don't realize we're doing it. A good fitter would be trying to maximize those positive changes with equipment. They wouldn't (or shouldn't) sell you a shaft because it goes a few yards further, but if a particular shaft/head combination improved your strikes or got you to a more neutral delivery that should be what they are after. A good lesson will help more than anything but if a fitter can improve your delivery numbers on the margins it can only be good.
Dan and Mark are two highly skilled golfers and the shaft doesn't really seem to influence their delivery characteristics or strike locations. But let's say they were. What if swapping out a shaft changed Dan's numbers? It would mean that the shaft was either influencing his strike location and/or influencing one of his delivery numbers. What would this tell us? Not much because not all of us are going to react to the shaft the same way as Dan. A particular shaft might take a degree of dynamic loft off for him but might add a degree for me.
What makes Dan and Mark good at doing reviews is that they can pretty much deliver the same numbers regardless of equipment. Their path, face angles, dynamic loft, and angle of attack are always going to be about the same. And when they are, clubs basically are going to behave the same. That doesn't mean that YOU will hit all shafts the same, but you can only find that out through testing and fitting.
As an example I recently had my wife fitted for irons and putting in a shaft that was 20 grams heavier made her hit the ball both higher and further. She swung the 40, 50, and 60 gram shafts all at the same speed, so of course the heavier one would gain more distance. However her front to back dispersion was worst with the 60 gram shaft because she couldn't hit the middle of the club as often. We settled on the 50 gram shaft as the dispersion was just as good as the lighter one, but there was a little extra distance. But not everyone is the same as her. Some people swing lighter shafts faster. Some swing lighter shafts slower. You'll never know unless you get fit. But that doesn't mean saying you want to hit the ball with higher launch so you by a high launch shaft or vice versa. It means going to someone who knows what they're doing and owns a launch monitor who can find an equipment combination that gives you the best delivery numbers possible.
Really interesting points you raise. Be good to hear Mark's response to them.
Can you guys test a mustang vs corvette to see which is faster? To make it fair you need to put the corvette engine in the mustang and the chassis oh yeah same transmission shit just use 2 corvettes
Haha
Mark I’ve been a subscriber since the beginning really. Would really love to see you go undercover to a few different fitters and see wether you end up with similar specs or if the human factor plays a big role. Thanks
a clubfitter I respect has commented that the shaft is really more of a timing device.
Actually the blue is mid launch and the white is the low launch
Lol bad when they don't know which one is which, yes blue is mid and the black is low smdh
But the conclusion was that they both had about the same launch. So launch is subject to golfer
Mark and Dan. Bullying the shaftoids. Come on boys it's Christmas. Lets show a bit of love to em, they can't help it.
I think you guys do a helluva good job in being fair and impartial when you test clubs... your not trying to sell a specific brand to your viewers, on the contrary you have shown us time and time again how different clubs are all pretty darn close in numbers... There is a limit to what companys can do in terms of specs and there all basically at that limit..thanks guys
Cheers Mark, that's definitely helped share great knowledge and a better understanding of what actually affects golf shots more than the noise of shafts , performance claims etc.
And that is the golfer attached to the end of the stick!
Less tinkering more practicing !
Cheers bra
This video is so flawed it's not even funny:
2:10 Dan's shoelace is clearly in a very different position then it is on the next swing
2:16 That swing, he had less time between the prior swing to the one at 2:16 but then over a minute wait to the swing at 3:52
3:52 the camera zoomed in more on the ball but you did not zoom in on any other ball. Makes me wonder if you're trying to hide something with the other shots
7:08 Dan adjust his shirt... this means it was bothersome but he didn't take the time to fix it which thus means that shot and all before it cannot be taken seriously
Not really sure what else to say honestly but if your going to test things side by side everything needs to be controlled always by a controlling controller. Everyone knows golf is a simple sport where were all adequately equipped for a perfect strike every time. .
#MarkOverShaftoids
#GetUpDan
#LockeyArmyBaby
Haha 😂
Thats not a fair test either because what if the shoe laces were a different colour? m not sure Dan could handle it.
@@christiannielsen5815 Didnt even think about that but that's a great point
If money was no consideration I would still want the Srixon Z965, because I could afford the widget! Great video and most of our work over here in Poland is inside now as we have 3/4 months of snow. Come on April!!
Coy Burton great spot coy😂
Mark... Love your stuff, and I completely understand that your message is that these minute differences are not felt across 18 holes or by anyone except maybe the absolute must hyper sensitive and best players in the world, but if you want to shut up these people, you gotta do a robot test! You gotta eliminate the human factor, so there is no: "oh you are adapting to the shaft, or you are trying not have the shaft show a difference."
Throw your driver in a robot, with 5 different shafts:
1) super soft ladies shaft (Graphite)
2) regular (graphite)
3) stiff shaft (graphite)
4) X-stiff (Steel)
5) XXX- ultra stiff long driving shaft (Graphite).
Do that with the same head, same loft same sure-fit setting and have that robot do 12 swings with each, remove highest and lowest outlier and show us. That will once and for all show how little difference a shaft does to a robot... and when you then add the human element... well besides feel, shaft only matter a tiny bit and that's only if your have specific swings (As you showed us in that PING- loading of the shaft video a couple of years back!)
Again, thanks for great content!
Cheers!
Mark, Dan, I think what you are doing is just fine. You are two different people hitting the same clubs and showing your own personal figures which the club gives you. Doing this gives us the golf fan/player something to go by when we want to purchase a new club, we have to go by what we want or don't want, you guys showcase players clubs and game enhancement clubs which cover most of what the sport has to offer, you guys do a damn fine job and no one can cover it all. My opinion, very good post, thanks.
New Years resolution is to come over to Torquay golf club and have a lesson with you and meet the legends that are lockey and dan. I’m really intrigued to experience your teaching. I need to get from 7 to cat 1.
Hi Mark. What about same head,same loft same flex but 5 different shaft manufacturers? Shot shape? Is profile side on view any different? Feels like the final shaftoid test we haven't seen? Thanks! Best regards MD (I'm not aggressive but can't work out why there are so many manufacturers all making money if all the results by person are the same? They surely would go out of business if there wasn't something in it?)
Would be pointless as there is no industry standard for flex. A stiff Hazardus is way stiffer than say a stiff Tensei non Pro model.
The reason they don't go out of business is that the human condition, no matter what the evidence individuals go on what they think. All the evidence in the world will not stop people believing in something, so manufacturers feed that beast. Nothing aggressive about it just individual preferences even if disproven always prevail.
Interesting would be to measure your body force-, extension-,...-adoption when changing the shafts as well and compare .. you’re currently measuring the results of a pro being able to adopt. For amateurs it might not possible to a certain extent to “bend” a shift or get the any shaft tip the way it needs it for his desired swing feel/result... great stuff you’re doing here
I have 2 shafts for my driver. A 50 gram Diamana shaft which is the shaft that came with the driver and a 65 gram Graphite Design shaft. Both are stiff, yet the Diamana is softer and high launching, the GD is tip stiff and lower launching. Result wise those shafts are the same even if they are at the opposite end of the spectrum. I just like the GD shaft more because it feels more solid and I feel the head a bit better. That's the only reason I choose that shaft.
Conclusion: get a shaft you like the feel/weight of. Distance wise it's not a difference
Mark, I love you reviews and do believe you give everything a fair test. I kind of understand what that comment was saying that they would like to see the different branded heads in the same shaft to see exactly what the difference would be, I also get where you are coming from that you want to review head to head with what’s available to golfers with the driver from the manufacturer. Where you lose me however is that you guys say the evenflow blue is a lower launching shaft and the white is the mid launching shaft. A quick check on project x website says it’s the other way around. (I’m not sure how to post pictures otherwise I would). As I stated I love the reviews I think you do a great job, however if your going to do a response video it’s probably best to make sure your information is correct 😂.
Adam Batchelor I get that they got the shaft description mixed up, but that just emphasised the result even more. There was no difference!
I agree completely that shafts don't matter as much as everyone says they do, but there is enough of a difference from extreme opposites of shafts to say that they do effect certain numbers. But shafts should all be feel and that's it.
Mark, I game the Evenflow Blue in those exact specs and from my experience it's a mid to high launching shaft for me personally. With any shaft/head combo it comes down to what kind of numbers the player is bringing to delivery like loft, club head speed, and strike. Club comparisons from high caliber golfers like you and Dan, you guys can just override the equipment from skill and knowledge of how to manipulate your swings to get the numbers you're used to. I always enjoy these videos. Cheers.
If you want to see tests showing the effects of different shafts then that's the domain of the TXG guys. Mark has said - and shown - in many videos that different shafts make next to no difference to him. The average golfer is never going to learn the ideal head-shaft-lie-loft combination for his particular swing just from watching club reviews. Getting fit is the only way that's likely to happen without just relying on luck.
When I managed to play off 4 it didnt make didly squat of a difference which shaft I used. I could my driver the same regardless of what shaft I used. Now (playing off 14 after 10 years away from the game) I use a reg flex because it "FEELS" easier for me to swing (oh dear I am getting old) but again I have noticed no difference in length or accuracy. Its all about feel and confidence for me. Great video lads.
Some people believe that there is a shaft that will allow a person to have maximum energy transfer with the shaft. From a physics point of view the shaft is the thing that connects your hands to the clubhead. The shaft can be heavy or light, stiff or less stiff and able to twist or not twist. The things your launch monitor measures is ball spin and speed and clubhead spead and ball point of impact. Make the head and shaft light and long equals higher head speed. Make the shaft heavy and short and for the same person clubhead speed will be less. No shaft effects there. A super light weight shaft that is torsionaly stiff will probably be more expensive than a heavier shaft. I would bet that you could test one head with a multitude of evaluation shafts and you might get a bit of variation as to where the ball ends up. How it feels to you is a different thing. Please try a senior shaft next to an xstiff shaft, it might bring on some grins and giggles.
Depends on the golfer each swing is different low or high lauch shafts. Fitting is correct then a low lauch shaft might lauch higher in a different head
Okay, sort of related issue. I like regular flex shafts so WHEN I miss fat on hard soil it SEEMS to spread the impact over a slightly longer time which means less pain shooting up my wrist, arm, elbow, shoulder, back, and neck. Obviously it's the same amount of force but I run away from extra stiff shafts for that one reason. Not suggesting you test this or that I'm even right.
I had to stop and jump on Project X Web page... The EvenFlow Blue 65 is a Mid Launching shaft White is Low Launch. I like you two but at least get your data points together before debating about shafts. Mark " Shafts don't Matter " Crossfield with the ability to make any shaft work with his swing . I have commented for years about testing with different shaft profiles.
This is to you as cameras are to me. As one who started in the film era, people today have no idea how easy they have it. There really is no bad camera made today in the hands of a good photographer. Golf equipment is no different.
It's a minefield Mark, other considerations, Swingweight, Shaft Length and as you mentioned COG
I was fitted for my driver and the guy tried 4 or 5 different shafts combined with moving loft and fade/draw bias on the hosel.
Eventually walked away with a club I was launching higher and more importantly, hitting straighter. Very happy.
Having watched 2 of your shaft vids I am still confused or uncertain as to what your point is? Right shaft is still important ?
Shaft Companys don't sponsor anyone ,or pay anyone to use their shafts ,I suppose if they ever do go down that route and Mr Crossfield gets a deal with say Mitsubishi ,then shafts will make a difference .
Ya but were the blades of grass at the same height as well as the moisture in the air? Keep up the good work guy's.
A little heads up for anyone wondering what Std. Dev. is, basically it tells you how spread out the data is. It's very useful as, roughly speaking, if the averages plus or minus the SD overlap there is no real difference between what's being tested. For example in this test the spin of the higher spinning rogue (2606) take its SD (293) gives 2313rpm and the lower spinning ts2 (2460) plus is SD (219) gives 2679rpm. These overlap hugely so there's essentially no difference you can attribute to the equipment for that variable 🤙
I remember s test you did with Lockey, same head, different shaft stiffness. The only thing I remember was more scatter. Distance was the same, maybe larger standard deviation numbers. I think where you would see a difference is if the shafts were heavier. Lockey liked the feel of stiffer shafts better.
Flippin brilliant Mark.Maybe these people who are fixated on SHAFTS !!!!! need to try and find the joy in our wonderful game again.
Mark, love your videos, maybe you read this comment. Please include club data with the driver. Its not about shafts for me. I have HMT and would like to compare club data with yours. Similar swing speed, but lower smash, dont think its strike related, i feel i am presenting too much dynamic loft around 20.
Are you able to do a video on how different shaft flexs e.g. ladies soft, reg, S, XS has an impact on ball flight and numbers. Would love to see if there is much of a different
Actually this is a reflection on the state of our society right now. People cannot take responsibility for their actions. i.e. talent.
People want to be told that it’s not their fault. Hence pointless and time wasting comments about shafts.
Maybe not even so much being without talent which after all one cannot really influence, but not willing to put in the hours of "blood, sweat and tears" in order to improve. It's more convenient and quicker to spend even a large amount on some "toy" than actually learn to properly use the gear (improve the swing). Besides it makes great bragging if one has expensive, fancy toys. Not all are like that, of course, but very many.
I'd test each head with 2 or 3 different shafts each, only if someone didn't already have a head preference. All shafts are the same unless they state otherwise. For example some of the TM version of fujikura shafts are slightly different but they always state it somewhere, no matter how small. It would cost too much to produce the same shaft and make it slightly different for each head. They just cut it from 46, stick it in the hosel and it is what it is...
Also normally someone has a preference of head and want to get a shaft fitted for it, rather than having a shaft they like and want a head to fit it, unless they really are shaft daft.
I don’t know about ‘ball spin’, but my head spins a bit with all those numbers: still loved your analysis though which seemed perfectly reasonable and fair....keep it up, I enjoy these comparisons.
surely you have proved countless times that no matter what the club spec is, the lump of meat holding the rubber bit controls and overrides anything else. launch, spin etc. and the performance can differ from day to day. mine does. i don't see how people don't get it by now cracking vid guys keep them coming
Look at some of the comments. It’s so funny
I honestly don't think the shaft makes a whole lot of difference. In the end it's what feels the best to you. I recall an old video of Mark's where he used a flexi shaft and a stiff shaft and the numbers were about the same. I tested it myself.
Shafts are devices to time your swing. If it works, it works.
This is possibly my favourite vid you've ever done .....
Have you ever done a test where you add heavier/extra weights to a driver head, more than the stock weights, to see how it affects strike or club face to path?
Great Reply , keep doing as you are ! I’m enjoying the tests ______ Great Great !!!
Here's a thing, it doesn't matter! Have you ever hit a friend's driver & loved it so much you had have 1 too? I had a buddy who had a 2016 M2 with X flex stock fujikura. I couldn't miss with his driver, perfect ball flight, tight 5 yrs draw on every swing.... And Long! So I went out & bought a 2016 M2 with X flex stock fujikura. Set the driver up EXACTLY like my buddy's. I could NOT hit my new M2 for the life of me. But as soon as hit his again, same result I always had with his driver. Which leads me to tell you that there are differences in shafts regardless of them being the same model, "flex" , torque, whatever. Moral of the story, if you go demo a driver, & love the 1 you're hitting....walk out with the exact club you're hitting!
So basically the guys at txg talk rubbish??
The CoG , total weight, and swing weight will have far more of an impact on the numbers but they are rarely even mentioned in a fitting.
Mark very good answer and Dan and you do very honest review some people expect magic.
I get what the guy is trying to call out. Different spin/launch model heads matched with different launch shafts producing similar results. So, all heads should be tested with the same shaft to test the heads. There is some “logic” in that statement based on sense, but when it comes to different swings and different delivery then this becomes very difficult to measure. Also, the weight of the club heads are different. So, then we might as well make sure weight is identical and centre of gravity is the same place. We can keep on adding to this equation.
You can have high launching shafts launching lower for different “release” swing and vice versa.
We also don’t know how a shaft manufacturer rates their shafts as lower launch. They are probably comparing to their own products based on measurable number. Shaft A will be lower launching due to whatever makes it a lower launching shaft. Side note, I think offset makes a bigger difference than a shaft for certain people (I had to :) ).
Haha re read that it’s funny in places. You basically want the same club 👍😂
I was just think before you briefly touched on it. I can see the idea of fair test but if we are testing which one goes further then wouldn't you want to get both clubs fit perfectly for the best results? That would then show you the "longer" driver.
You should do hit 10 shots with a club and call it Club 1... then hit another 10 shots with the exact same club, and call it Club 2. You will probably see similar results as 2 different clubs that have reasonably similar shafts at the same loft. Will really drive home your point about effects of strike location
You need the correct shaft/head combo for your delivery. Would be interesting to see the difference between the px shaft at different weights with the same head. Think the do a 55 65 and 75 g shaft all in 6.0 stiffness.
Shaft for me is feel......
I get the shaft I like the feel of
Love it 👍👍
Thats exactly what it's about. You find your general profile you like (stiff tip, soft butt for me), and what flex enables you to make your most natural swing, and that will give you a range of shafts that fit you because each OEM won't carry the exact same shafts
I personally don't believe in stiffness or that a certiain swing speed falls into a certain category. Weight, to help with plane and bend profile to help with sequence are the most important aspects to help minimize dispersion. Like you say Mark... Strike is king!!!!!
I'm so happy to see someone finally mention std dev in these GC numbers. A few other channels will make claims that X is better than Y because the AVG is higher (after 3-5 shots), but X and Y are within 1 STD DEV of each other with respect to each club.
Great video tinkerers make best customers always searching for shaftoid nirvana lol.
Merry Christmas to you all looking forward to 2019 videos maybe Santa will get TM to put you back on approved listing lol.
Had a diamana x flex whiteboard in 910d2 driver tried it in 915d2 & 917d2 but it only worked well in 910d2 because I found the centre of head more often.
Switched to 1" short tipped project x5.5 and put it in 917d2 and boom now found centre in that so it's in the bag for now lol.
I almost completely agree with Mark here. Any shaft "test" should really look at dispersion and strike location., not just launch data (although launch data is what the manufacturers bang on about). I was fiddling with a Matrix White tie 50gm Stiff and could hardly find the middle of the face - the good ones were great, but strike locations was all over the shop. Switched to a old Fubuki that I have and instantly hit it heaps straighter - strike location much more centered. Was the launch and spin different?? They looked the same in the air. Did the Fubuki go further - a bit, but only due to more centered strikes. Did I hit more fairways - absolutely. There's probably any number of shafts that will work fine for any given player, but I'm convinced there is such a thing as the "wrong shaft".
Love the videos. I may be addicted to them. Not sure. You guys are very good ball strikers. You have exceptional awareness and control of the clubbed. Most of us don't. I just did a complete bag fitting. I was seeing a big difference between shafts and then club heads. I'm guessing there was work trying to find a shaft weight and flex and all those other parameters that fit the swing that I bring to the table, and there was quite a bit of difference. The same was true of clubheads. For instance, I couldn't hit the titelist driver. It was all over the place, but the ping driver had a very consistent pattern. No real question, but it seems that Rory would have more variance in numbers and one club would perform better for him than another. Seems the tech addresses swing flaws differently, and the average golfer would find a club and shaft that just does a better job of minimizing his/her swing flaws. Does that sound about right?
Stock shaft cost around $8. How much do you think aftermarket shaft cost when it's charging over $400?
I guess the (vicarious) point is a golf club is actually two products - a head and a shaft. Therefore you need to have the same shaft in a head to firstly test the head is better than what you have already. But as you say, and I totally agree, a shaft is a shaft is a shaft. I'm actually looking to buy an M4 head to go in my M2 Fujikura shaft - why buy another shaft?
Is it an issue of the same shaft or the same expense with respect to the clubs? Is it a true comparison if the Tensei shaft is a $250 upgrade to the standard shaft (possibly an up charge in the US) for the M4 versus the Srixon Z with a custom shaft that is a standard shaft option without an up charge in the Miyazaki? If the heads were the same amount, but the shafts had a $250 difference, could the performance of the Srixon be increased with a more expensive, upgraded shaft (in Dan’s hands) or with $250 in Lessons with the right coach for the average consumer/golfer?
Mark, suppose the name Ian Frazer rings a bell (TXG). I know from your previous videos you do think shafts don’t matter that much. According to Ian Fraser a shaft should be seen as something fitted to a persons swing with a particular driver to help e.g. with the timing or helping to fight e.g. high spin. What do you think about that?
Is not the even flow t1100 white the low launching shaft and the blue one the mid-high launching shaft?
They launched the same.
In real test yes but in the custom options book of titleist not
@@MarkCrossfield What I would find interesting is if they were tested (same head) and blue and white shaft in mechanically hitting device (Iron Byron) would they still launch the same.
In fairness to the comment guy, most casual golfers do experience greater variation between shafts than you two because when one feels better, they strike it better... sometimes massively so. Then they project the particular into a universal truth...
How about to be fair... Dan is giving bad information on the two shafts he's testing.... The EvenFlow Blue is a Mid Launch shaft and the White is a Low Launch shaft...... This entire Video is Flawed based on bad reading by Dan. Here have a look. www.pxshaft.com/products/project-x-evenflow-blue/
www.pxshaft.com/products/evenflow-t1100-white/
www.pxshaft.com/products/project-x-evenflow-black/
@@TZOID08 yeah, mistake... but they both performed about the same... thats the conclusion... regardless of the notes difference, the performance qas the same.
@@eddiereyes4861 Outside - on course I would imagine the EvenFlow Blue will produce a higher ball flight . I know that when I was fitted for my Ping G400 MAX the stock Alta shaft with the softer tip launched the ball higher than the Aldila Rogue Silver that produced my preferred ball flight. Take Irons shafts next and hit a S-300 VS Modus 130 S..... The shaft profile of the two will bear different results.
Mark you guys are easily the most consistent and honest testers. However i need help understanding your comment. You made it sound like when you test cluds of similar types (player to player or game imp to game imp) the numbers are soooo close that there is really little difference in performance. I agree and have said this for years. I think the only diff is strik and the confidence you have when holding that club due look, feel or maker is the reason we hit one type better then the other. Now there are very suttle differences but i bet you can game every blade out there.
Disappointed with the Question. The real issue was Srixon came out with only 3 Project X shafts on the Shelves at the stores. Red, Yellow and Smoke shafts. Yes you can order different ones or get fitted however M4 has Atmos and Tensei which are two totally different shafts which is better.
you had two different grips on those clubs how can you call this a ''test'' ha
keep up the good work lads love your videos and i have learnt so much about golf from watching you
I do believe in extreme situations (A flex to X flex) a difference can be "felt" and the same with weight as long as its close to 20 grams difference. Of the rare mistakes Ping sent me KBS Tour R in my i200s when the order was supposed to be stiff flex. Of course they tried to correct it and were great about it, but I couldn't see a difference and when hitting the R, no way I could distinguish the difference.
Scuse my ignorance here... What You guys are saying is if I pick up a regular flex shaft in a Dunlop driver, hit 1000 shots on that day and store the numbers. Next day I go out and fit a xx flex tensei white or whatever to the same head and hit another 1000 shots worth of data, the numbers are going to be close or the same? Ie. The misses, distance and flight will be the almost identical?
Love your videos! I must say I too would like to see driver tests with less variables. Same grip, same ball, same shafts, different heads. Some shafts like Tensei or Even Flow supply to different manufacturers anyway. Like in this test, both drivers performed similarly. If you tested them with say, Tour Ad in one and Aldila Nv in the other, there might be some who’d say it was down to the shaft. Thanks for the videos and keep on making them!
Great vid guys...so basically are we saying that TH-cam golf club testing is a bit pointless, gets load of views, but ultimately is advertising not testing. Keep the great content coming....just not too many club tests though ;))))
How do you get there from that?
Shapes CG materials etc etc and marketing claims always need to be challenged and tested.
Great video guys, one small question, if properly fitted for the club they all go 262 do you pick your choice of shaft by the feel, flight or what?
Feel feel feel
Mark Crossfield Thanks Mark
👍
So a question, your hypothesis is all the drivers are the same so do you buy the cheapest driver, how do you decide??
What do you guys mean we can't get any combination of shaft and head? Is that not possible in the UK?
The question is... If it all comes down to strike and different heads, different shafts do the same thing... why on earth be so adamant that golfer should be fitted (except for the obvious glaring problem of shaft length and lie, but then again that's a one off and bye). If there are differences, and one golfer could gain yardage, consistency and what not by getting fitted, that means that not all shafts do the same thing, and then again that makes this video moot. (Sure, the point that shafts are made for certain heads and the test should be mostly of the complete package also makes the viewer comment a bit moot too... ). Bit of a provocative question, but that really seems rather inconsistent, Mark, and you've never really cleared that point convincingly.
Because different shaft flexes from manufacturers could lead to more distance (a stiff in speeder shafts could be a x-stiff in project x etc) plus then you have different weights within same flex a stiff could be 50g, 60g, 70g and even 90g. They will have different feels, how it stores the energy, how golfers deliver that power etc. This is why it's important to narrow it down to 2 or 3 shafts. Then try gaming shots with each (fade, draw, low, high, the power drive where you give it your all). See which one let's you hit all of them comfortably as it's your feel with that club configuration which will allow you to be confident on the course leading to better scores
François Desmoulins-Lebeault you said it yourself. Length, loft and lie all matter. You are getting fitted for that. If you are getting fitted for driver, you hit different brands and go with the best. He is saying if it’s down to a Callaway and Titleist for example, you don’t switch shafts in those clubs and test again. Hit each club, get fitted and buy
David Bartsch Wow. That is not what custom fitting is about at all.
I suppose that works if you're relatively new to golf, but I don't know any serious golfers who would adopt that approach and if you do, you're missing a big (and important) piece of the process out.
That's what worries me about MC's rhetoric at times, he can provide amazing insight into certain things one day, then give people completely the wrong idea the next. That is, I really don't think that's what he was suggesting you do.
Whatever floats your boat though. 👍
Ed i used the dumbed down version. I get that there is more too it. My point is that getting fitted does matter. But also agree with what mark is saying here
When strike is consistent and solid as Dans and Marks youll find performance to be miniscule. In a fitting, you'll get data that a fitter will interpret what suits your game more. Lie angle, attack angle, loft delivery, shafts and so much more. All can be tinkered with to a certain degree to help youre game out. Bur another one of his advice, get lessons. You fix a lie angle if youre say 6°... most clubs can only be fitted 2-3 degrees. Then the fitting is also subject ro how the product feels to you.
Why does Dan keep saying the green evenflow is lower launching than the white as that’s incorrect! Well according to Titleist or project x anyway. Head cg has more of an effect than any other component all being equal, with a shafts main purpose being to deliver as much energy to the ball while also playing its part in timing for a player through different profiles.
What are your numbers when using the Mizuno swingDNA?
The simple fact is that a club consists of a grip, a shaft and a head. Then add in loft and lie and the various weight adjustment capabilities that drivers always seem now to have. For each golfer and each club there will be a combination of all of those things that work best for that particular golfer.
The only "fair" test between 2 clubs is to set up each club with the best combination of shaft, grip etc for the tester. And yes that might mean that the 2 clubs have very different shafts in them - but the point is that it is the testing the best fit of club 1 against the best fit of club 2.
Even then such tests can only be general guides. The only way for any particular person to be sure is to test the clubs themselves because my skill set (or lack thereof) means I need different things from a club than someone such as Mark or Dan with their skill set
I would love to have access to one of these launch monitors
I agree, go with one of the stock shafts :-) save a bundle as well
Great educational vid as per, keep up the good work. So bottom line have same shaft in my new putter like my old one so I don't 3 putt 😜
You ought to try and get to a shaft manufacturer and see how they justify the differences (or not).
Even flow t1100 is supposed to be the lower launch and spin vs the blue mid launch and spin.
Interesting how close they are isn’t it. 👍
@@MarkCrossfield do you think the difference would be greater at a higher swing speed? Loft seems to affect me more than shaft. I've always struggled with spin hitting up on it from slightly inside. Strike is everything though.
Scott Dreyfus your high spin is a simple spin loft issue. 👍👍
@@MarkCrossfield rogue sz 9.0 in a - 2.0 seems to be a great combo. I was disappointed that it cost 60$ to get a fitting from the tour department that would move the head into a 7.0 setting.
Surely then if you are good to go pretty much on the numbers at 262 with your current driver and your the same four years ago with the driver you were using. Then what's the point of trading up with new drivers every season? Unless they are tired out.
I only started playing in 2013 with a Ping K15 driver 10.5degree it's got a project X upgraded option shaft from stock. It still feels nice very forgiving draw biased. Back then I shouldn't have even thought about using a driver, as I wasn't very confident using one as a novice.
I improved a little during the 1st half of the year. Then got caught out on the special effects sales bumf and got fitted with a Taylormade R1 driver. Sounded great in the shop! Proved useless for using out on the course though. I actually got better distance and accuracy with my 3 wood stage1 RBZ.. i received my 1st handicap in 2014 and it was 21. I was so pleased with that so still use that 3 wood off the Tee when I'm off my swing a bit.
Im using my Callaway Big Bertha Fusion driver now and it is outstanding for me, handicaps gone up not down though,, argh the beauty of golf eh!
Keep it up Mark 'nuff respect' Dan's great but Lockeys still the Leader.
I reckon he should go back to the pink castle tees 😁
Sure you did a video a while back discussing how some of your students got the same results from ladies flex shafts to x flex shafts (may have been Dan hitting them actually) why people get so wrapped up in shafts is beyond me. Half the pros on tour that do this for a living don’t even know or care what shafts they have in their clubs. Keep up the good work guys.
To compare driver heads, just put the same shaft in both of them, that takes out the shaft as variable leaving only the heads to be compared. It's that simple, or am I missing something?
Whilst it's difficult to remove all the variances (Dan, stop using low spin trousers)... However, have you considered establishing a baseline club e.g. select a good club and stock shaft - something that works for you or have used a few years ago (one that people could have in their bag and maybe looking to upgrade from - something like a Titleist 915 D2 etc.). The thought is that people are only going to have something in their bag that has worked for them... then test the new clubs against that consistent baseline in the shaft that the manufacturer provides. It's up to the manufacturer to put their best option forward and people can then see if there's much difference... Other than that, love the channel and all the best to the team for Christmas!
What about the face being 0.002 degrees open on the Rogue due to lofting the adapter down? Please get a 9.5 degree rogue custom-made for a true test
you have highlighted a major problem with driver fitting sessions ! ask someone to hit 10 drives and they will be better drives towards the end . you would need to make an adjustment hit the ball and wait 15 mins until the next drive!!
Hi Mark keep up the good work with the videos 👍🏼 so the shaft is feel based and not performance based... but is it not possible that certain shafts would not suit either you and/or Dan and throw very odd results into the mix?
How about next test we have a a club with a paint job like a pair of John Daly's trousers and the other with a sleek black finish to see how the looks of a club improve its performance. :P
I think the pigment in the blue helps with aerodynamics
All my shafts are blue.
For me when it comes to shafts it’s about looks and weight. I just prefer the look of a white shaft going into a black head of a ts3
I get it. I used to be obsessed about shafts and launches etc. Watching your vids has completely altered my whole way of looking at golf. Maybe it was the ceo at taylormade golf!!!!!! Ha 😂😂😂😂😂🙈🙈
That is great to hear.
Besides weight what is the difference between a 50G and a 60G shaft?
What you're telling me you can't feel a
'. 1' 🤣🤣 love that!
"THE SEARCH...for nothing" - I love it.
What the shaftoids of the world don't understand is that significant differences in the performance of a club due to the shaft would rarely occur EXCEPT where there is a significant variance from the "norm". The "norm" being the average swing speed, strength, tempo, etc of a golfer. If someone has a club head speed of 120mph and/or an extremely fast transition, then light or soft shafts might not be IDEAL for getting the best strike and smash factor for that golfer, but they could still perform well. The same applies for someone with an 80mph swing using very heavy or stiff shafts. There is not some great mystery here, or any secret sauce in a $500 shaft that gives a golfer 20 extra yards - it's just simply physics. Occasionally, a manufacturer stumbles upon a great combination of qualities in a shaft that simply performs or feels a little better (on average) for many golfers, but even then the differences are usually marginal.
I wish people would stop chasing their tails searching for the "holy grail" of driver shafts…
Question for ya mate...maybe off topic...sorry. I think Dan is a fabulous player as attested by his performance in your vids. I notice, particularly on his driver shots, that he has a similar move to Stenson, that is, he appears to be shifting his center of gravity a bit to his rear foot as he starts the back swing. I have a great friend that grew up in South Africa and played college golf with some notable pros from the 80's, and he has the same move. BTW, he also hits it a mile, and straight. I would love if you could do a swing analysis of Mark, V Coach, V Dan, so we could perhaps understand the nuances of your respective swings. I believe Mark is every bit as accurate as Dan, if not more, but I don't see this move, or any trigger move for that matter. I know you are all great players, but is there something about Dan's move that I could learn from? I've tried it and it invariably end up with me sliding , not rotating...bad results generally.
I hate to point this out since it doesn't actually affect the validity of the video but you got your shafts backwards white t11000 is low , blue is mid.
Surely the point of the test is to compare the whole club that the manufacturer has put on the rack for sale .if they send you a club with x,y or z shaft in then they must think that'll give them the best results.
Great video , enjoyed the testing and opens up a great day scussion