I am a 62 year old massage therapist still working. Just had a right partial knee replacement. I now have this very annoying hip pain. It interrupts my sleep. I did do some of these exercises pre surgery. I'm less than two weeks out and am progressing very well. Extension is 0 Flexion in knee is 93. I'm on a physio bike provided by hosp and insurance thankfully. This hip pain is a pain, but this video was so very helpful. Will continue to strengthen hip with these exercises you've suggested! Thank you!
Thank you so much. I'm 2 weeks left knee replacement. Hip pain is rough, you don't think about it. My PT said my body and my gait when walking has now changed after 10 yrs of trying to cope with my crappy knee and my leg being 2 inches shorter. Give yourself grace other patients! It'll come along.....I have to remind myself of that 😅
I’m glad you found the insights helpful! It’s completely normal to experience hip and sciatica pain as your body adjusts after a total knee replacement. Finding your new normal can take time, but be patient with yourself. Gentle stretches and strengthening exercises can help alleviate some of that discomfort. You’ve got this, and better days are ahead!
Thank you so very much! You speak slowly enough for the listener to take in the info and apply it to the symptoms. Very rare! I had TKR X 2 four weeks ago today. Ive been amazingly good and essentially do everything for myself at home. Today at Outpatient Physio I got a pain in my left (worse) side. From my lumbar region to the hip, inside the hip, down my leg ... basically all over the hip region! I couldn't pin point the epicentre. As I have 4 bulging discs I was paranoid. Now home this has settled my fear and paranoia. I guess all the muscle groups are weak! I always sleep on this side, it was the side that carried my 'bad' side, so no wonder the groups are out of whack and adjusting. I'm going to Subscribe and follow your videos. Your time and effort is much appreciated and today has helped me enormously. ❤😊
Hi Peterson I am Asiyah is here I had my both knee surgery six months ago but now from the last month I started pain my left leg and left side of hip l was very much worried about this but after seeing your video I feel relaxed thank you so much for this wonderful video.
You are welcome and thank you for watching, I hope you are able to alleviate your pain and address this new concern in a timely manner. Thanks for watching and best wishes!
I had my TKR Jan 2023. It is now June 2024 and not only do I have knee pain worse than before I had my knee replaced, but now my hip and lower back hurt constantly. The surgeon never once explained that I might have hip and lower back pain as a side effect of the TKR. He made it seem like I’d be practically skipping once I had this done. I’m now seeking a second opinion. My advice, don’t mess with your bodies original parts unless it is absolutely necessary. I would never, ever do this again, but if you must, get 2nd and 3rd opinions before allowing the Dr to ruin your life. I can no longer stand for long periods of time, I wear a knee brace constantly, and on days where the pain is almost unbearable I use a cane. Worst decision I ever made
I currently have excruciating hip pain after RTKR 2 months ago. Due to underlying medical conditions my recovery is very slow. Your explanation is very helpful in relation to hip pain. However, for those of us that are not so mobile and cannot do the type of weigh bearing exercises you mention or stand on one leg are there things that we can do as well to reduce the hip pain and improve the gait. Many thanks
Thank you for your question! There are a number of exercises you can do laying down.. here are two video you may find helpful: th-cam.com/video/LcdpEN9wAls/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/7NraCdmUpqM/w-d-xo.html Another option to consider is aquatic therapy, which allows better weight bearing and exercise tolerance compared to land based exercises.
Hi Doc, I just found your video on Hip pain post TKA. I had no idea this was part of recovery. I'm having mine in Nov and I have Parkinson's and have hardware in my spine. What can i do to strengthen my hips if i am a fall risk?
There are a variety of exercises that are great for strengthening your hip musculature. Some of my favorites including bridging, clamshells, side lying leg raises, sit to stands or supported squats, forward step ups, side step ups... and there are certainly many others you can try.
So it should just go away? I had a broken condyle in my left femur. They told me this was a possibility. But I have no idea what to do to alleviate it. I twist my hip to the right when walking, but I don’t know what to do.
First, I'm sorry you are dealing with this issue. Next I strongly recommend seeking the advice of your personal healthcare team including your doctor and physical therapist especially if you have a fracture as this will impact the course of your recovery and specific recommendations. Best wishes to you!
I had my left knee replaced in September 2019. Literally from the first month after the surgery until now, I cannot walk more than two minutes without substantial hip pain. Suggestions to proceed to fix this problem? Thanks!
I would consult with an orthopedist to rule out any serious diagnoses and consult with a PT or doc to make sure the issues aren’t stemming from your low back. After that I would focus on progressive strengthening program for the hips and core muscles. A PT or trainer can help you get setup with exercises that you can tolerate initially but some good options are bridges, clamshells, side lying straight leg raises, single leg balance, and sit to stands... hope this helps!
Hello, thanks for the info. What is your stance on heel lift after knee replacement. I am now 23 weeks after my knee replacement and while I feel that my gait came a long way, I still feel like I have my right side (where I had my total knee replacement) is a bit longer than the other side and it is affecting the way I walk creating pain in my IT band, calf, hamstrings and hip. Is this normal?
Is not uncommon to have a change in leg length after surgery and the stresses caused by this can lead to knee pain or pain in other areas. There is nothing wrong with considering a heel lift or other methods to manage a leg length difference. I recommend being assessed by a physiotherapist to determine if there is a true leg length difference or if the difference is being caused by muscle stiffness or postural alignment issues.
I had my left knee replaced six months ago and it is still progressing. Over the last month sleeping has been more difficult because of hip pain (left side). When I wake up in the morning the left side of the hip is very painful and I am unable to bend down. Within an hour after being up things loosen up and feel normal and there is no pain while walking during the day.
Hello, and thanks for watching! You may be experiencing some increased comfort in that hip due to some increased stresses through the hip joint. After knee replacement your leg and body is moving differently when you walk and do things, and sometimes it takes some time for the knees and back, hip to adapt.
Me too, after having had left TKR 5 months ago. If I walk for longer than about 800 m, I get excruciating pain in my left hip, at the back - so much so that I can not sit down. I have to go lie down for a few hours, for the pain to recede. In my opinion, all physio does is empty my wallet - load of rubbish.
TKR on left knee I also have torn labrum and arthritic hip same side since the surgery I can't stand longer than 10 min without hip pain even standing up from sitting position... Also my right knee is excruciating pain I can't bend it.
Sorry to hear about your continued pain and issues. Have you discussed with your surgeon plans to address the torn labrum? You may benefit from aquatic therapy as this could allow improved standing tolerance and exercise tolerance with less weight and stress through your hip.
I have had ACL and minuscus reconstruction on my left leg n I face pain in my right hip and in middle in lower back is it the same as you explained in video
There are definitely a lot of similarities as to why you may be experiencing back and hip pain right now, and my recommendations would be similar, too. Thanks for watching!
I had hip and knees replaced. My left knee did fab. Then my right. My other hurt my it band on my left. How can I get rid of my pain I do a little of pt seems is all day. So is complex in my case. Thank you.
It sounds like you've been through a lot with your hip and knee replacements, and I'm sorry to hear about the pain you're experiencing. Consider exercises that focus on hip strengthening and motor control. Some good exercises to try including bridging, clamshells, standing hip abduction to the side, supported squats, step ups.
I had a knee replacement surgery almost 4 weeks ago, I still use a walker although I'm trying to move on crutches and/or cane. I have been having hip and ankle pain (I had them since before), but now it's really hurting which is discouraging. In addition to arthritis I was born with arthrogryposis multiplex congenita, so my muscles and joints are a bit different. Not sure what to do.
Thank you for watching and commenting. As you know, AMC is a rare disease and can effect people in very different ways depending on the impact on the joints and muscles. For the best treatment, it truly takes a personalized approach and assessment from your surgeon, PT, and other health professionals... so unfortunately, I can't offer any specific advice, but I wish you the best and hope you can find some relief of your pain and symptoms.
Ok thank you so much Peterson I am trying to lots of walking but after ten minutes I started hip pain on my left side and also left thigh what should I do please help me thank you.
@@asiyahrashid9897 Yes you can use the treadmill. I would continue to incorporate walking but use pain as a guide for how much. It is okay to work through a little bit of pain and discomfort, this is how you build tolerance and is not harmful, but you don't want to continue walking if your pain becomes too intense (5/10 or worse, for example) The idea is we want a happy medium where we stress the body to cause adaptation but not too much to cause and aggravation of symptoms. I would also encourage you to incorporate some strengthening exercises to help improve hip muscle strength and activity tolerance such as sit to stands, support body weight squats, bridging, clamshells, step ups, side stepping.
Hi Peterson I am Asiyah is here today I want to ask you what are best range of motion after total knee replacement I had my both knee replacement surgery my rang of motion is 125degree.
Hi Asiyah, so actually 0-125 degrees is typically the upper limit goal for those who are doing really well. Most people who achieve about 115 degrees of bend find they can do most anything they want with that level of mobility. A "normal" healthy knee has about 140 degrees of bend. I almost never see someone get to that range after surgery, but sometimes people will get around 130 degrees.
@@asiyahrashid9897 There is no harm in continuing to do the range of motion exercises, but you don't have to continue them. I recommend at this point focus on some form of physical activity or exercise you enjoy and can do on a consistent basis. Maintaining overall health and well being is the best you can do for the health and longevity of your knees.
I had right TKR in June of 23..it was a Kinetic alignment with robotic assist...everything was perfect for months...now since about March of 24 I've got this pain that radiates from in upper area of the right buttock and it's constant...
Sorry to hear this. This could be a couple different things most notably a low back issue causing radiating nerve pain into the buttock and leg, or an issue at the hip such as hip arthritis. If this doesn't clear up I would recommend getting connected with a PT to assess the back and whole body. You may very well be able to manage your pain and symptoms conservatively with therapy and exercises.
@@KneeReplacementTherapists thank you for the infomation...the pain doesn't go into the leg so I'm thinking it's not sciatica...I will take your advice and talk to a PT...I really don't want a hip replacement too but that's sure what I was envisioning!! Hopefully it won't come to that
Thank you! For videos. I wish Physical therapists were Half as helpful, when I go to pT I pay 40.00 copay and it's a complete waste of time and money! They have the tunnel vision you mention and do not communicate.Its almost as though they are afraid to communicate or talk about anything that is not precisely what they are treating. They measure, give a hand out once in a while, exercise you in the same machines for a few minutes.See you next time, don't forget to pay. I learn so much more from your videos and others on TH-cam.Healthcare in US is a joke.
Unfortunately, I see a lot of the similar situations you are talking about. As physical therapists it is important we are providing a high level of value to our patients and also taking a holistic, whole-body approach to managing and treating. Thank you for watching and sharing your comment.
I agree I think this person is very rude and obviously and got issues, I’m enjoying your videos thank you Just ignore this idiot you have already got a lot of people including me value your knowledge Thank you for your time
Surgeon never mentioned my hip might be far more painful than the knee months after surgery. Thanks for the vid.
Unfortunately, secondary issues like this do arise. Hope this video helped.
Exactly, mine too. 3 months after tkr I'm way worse with hip pain and need a cane. It from the knee but because hip and thigh
I am a 62 year old massage therapist still working. Just had a right partial knee replacement. I now have this very annoying hip pain. It interrupts my sleep. I did do some of these exercises pre surgery. I'm less than two weeks out and am progressing very well. Extension is 0 Flexion in knee is 93. I'm on a physio bike provided by hosp and insurance thankfully. This hip pain is a pain, but this video was so very helpful. Will continue to strengthen hip with these exercises you've suggested! Thank you!
Hi Susie! Hope this video helps you manage the hip pain, glad to hear the rest of your recovery is going well! Thanks for watching!
My hips hurt so bad but they was hurting before surgery. It is so excruciating . This was great information. I thought it was just me. Thank yiu
Sorry to hear this, hope this video helps and as you continue to rehab from surgery your hips will start feeling better, too!
6 weeks since Knee replacement. HIP CLICK after Knee replacement surgery! Great explanation & advice!!!!!
Thank you for watching and commenting! Best of luck in your continued recovery after surgery!
Thank you so much. I'm 2 weeks left knee replacement. Hip pain is rough, you don't think about it. My PT said my body and my gait when walking has now changed after 10 yrs of trying to cope with my crappy knee and my leg being 2 inches shorter.
Give yourself grace other patients! It'll come along.....I have to remind myself of that 😅
This is all very true… and I agree give yourself grace and be patient!
Thank you for your insights. I had a total knee 8 weeks ago. So much hip pain and sciatica pain. Trying to find my new normal
I’m glad you found the insights helpful! It’s completely normal to experience hip and sciatica pain as your body adjusts after a total knee replacement. Finding your new normal can take time, but be patient with yourself. Gentle stretches and strengthening exercises can help alleviate some of that discomfort. You’ve got this, and better days are ahead!
This is great. Hip was aching sometimes more than my knee after first couple weeks, and didn’t make sense to me.
Glad you found the video helpful, thanks for watching!
Thank you so very much! You speak slowly enough for the listener to take in the info and apply it to the symptoms. Very rare!
I had TKR X 2 four weeks ago today. Ive been amazingly good and essentially do everything for myself at home. Today at Outpatient Physio I got a pain in my left (worse) side. From my lumbar region to the hip, inside the hip, down my leg ... basically all over the hip region! I couldn't pin point the epicentre.
As I have 4 bulging discs I was paranoid. Now home this has settled my fear and paranoia. I guess all the muscle groups are weak! I always sleep on this side, it was the side that carried my 'bad' side, so no wonder the groups are out of whack and adjusting. I'm going to Subscribe and follow your videos. Your time and effort is much appreciated and today has helped me enormously. ❤😊
Thank you very much for watching and I'm very glad you found help from the video! Best wishes with your continued recovery after surgery!
Very well explained. I feel less worried about it now because I know why it's happening. Thank you sooo much
Glad you found it helpful!
Hi Peterson I am Asiyah is here I had my both knee surgery six months ago but now from the last month I started pain my left leg and left side of hip l was very much worried about this but after seeing your video I feel relaxed thank you so much for this wonderful video.
You are welcome and thank you for watching, I hope you are able to alleviate your pain and address this new concern in a timely manner. Thanks for watching and best wishes!
Thank you so much for replying me.
I had my TKR Jan 2023. It is now June 2024 and not only do I have knee pain worse than before I had my knee replaced, but now my hip and lower back hurt constantly. The surgeon never once explained that I might have hip and lower back pain as a side effect of the TKR. He made it seem like I’d be practically skipping once I had this done. I’m now seeking a second opinion. My advice, don’t mess with your bodies original parts unless it is absolutely necessary. I would never, ever do this again, but if you must, get 2nd and 3rd opinions before allowing the Dr to ruin your life. I can no longer stand for long periods of time, I wear a knee brace constantly, and on days where the pain is almost unbearable I use a cane. Worst decision I ever made
I am very sorry to hear about your bad outcome following surgery. I hope you are able to find the help and relief you need.
I currently have excruciating hip pain after RTKR 2 months ago. Due to underlying medical conditions my recovery is very slow. Your explanation is very helpful in relation to hip pain. However, for those of us that are not so mobile and cannot do the type of weigh bearing exercises you mention or stand on one leg are there things that we can do as well to reduce the hip pain and improve the gait. Many thanks
Thank you for your question! There are a number of exercises you can do laying down.. here are two video you may find helpful: th-cam.com/video/LcdpEN9wAls/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/7NraCdmUpqM/w-d-xo.html Another option to consider is aquatic therapy, which allows better weight bearing and exercise tolerance compared to land based exercises.
Hi Doc, I just found your video on Hip pain post TKA. I had no idea this was part of recovery. I'm having mine in Nov and I have Parkinson's and have hardware in my spine. What can i do to strengthen my hips if i am a fall risk?
There are a variety of exercises that are great for strengthening your hip musculature. Some of my favorites including bridging, clamshells, side lying leg raises, sit to stands or supported squats, forward step ups, side step ups... and there are certainly many others you can try.
@@KneeReplacementTherapists Wow that's quite a few I can do Yay 😊😁
Ty so much for answering 😀👍
So it should just go away?
I had a broken condyle in my left femur. They told me this was a possibility. But I have no idea what to do to alleviate it. I twist my hip to the right when walking, but I don’t know what to do.
First, I'm sorry you are dealing with this issue. Next I strongly recommend seeking the advice of your personal healthcare team including your doctor and physical therapist especially if you have a fracture as this will impact the course of your recovery and specific recommendations. Best wishes to you!
Thank you so much.
You're welcome!
I had my left knee replaced in September 2019. Literally from the first month after the surgery until now, I cannot walk more than two minutes without substantial hip pain. Suggestions to proceed to fix this problem? Thanks!
I would consult with an orthopedist to rule out any serious diagnoses and consult with a PT or doc to make sure the issues aren’t stemming from your low back. After that I would focus on progressive strengthening program for the hips and core muscles. A PT or trainer can help you get setup with exercises that you can tolerate initially but some good options are bridges, clamshells, side lying straight leg raises, single leg balance, and sit to stands... hope this helps!
Hello, thanks for the info. What is your stance on heel lift after knee replacement. I am now 23 weeks after my knee replacement and while I feel that my gait came a long way, I still feel like I have my right side (where I had my total knee replacement) is a bit longer than the other side and it is affecting the way I walk creating pain in my IT band, calf, hamstrings and hip. Is this normal?
Is not uncommon to have a change in leg length after surgery and the stresses caused by this can lead to knee pain or pain in other areas. There is nothing wrong with considering a heel lift or other methods to manage a leg length difference. I recommend being assessed by a physiotherapist to determine if there is a true leg length difference or if the difference is being caused by muscle stiffness or postural alignment issues.
Thank you for this.
My pleasure!
I had my left knee replaced six months ago and it is still progressing. Over the last month sleeping has been more difficult because of hip pain (left side). When I wake up in the morning the left side of the hip is very painful and I am unable to bend down. Within an hour after being up things loosen up and feel normal and there is no pain while walking during the day.
Hello, and thanks for watching! You may be experiencing some increased comfort in that hip due to some increased stresses through the hip joint. After knee replacement your leg and body is moving differently when you walk and do things, and sometimes it takes some time for the knees and back, hip to adapt.
Me too, after having had left TKR 5 months ago. If I walk for longer than about 800 m, I get excruciating pain in my left hip, at the back - so much so that I can not sit down. I have to go lie down for a few hours, for the pain to recede. In my opinion, all physio does is empty my wallet - load of rubbish.
This video helped me thank you
Glad it helped!
TKR on left knee I also have torn labrum and arthritic hip same side since the surgery I can't stand longer than 10 min without hip pain even standing up from sitting position... Also my right knee is excruciating pain I can't bend it.
Sorry to hear about your continued pain and issues. Have you discussed with your surgeon plans to address the torn labrum? You may benefit from aquatic therapy as this could allow improved standing tolerance and exercise tolerance with less weight and stress through your hip.
I have had ACL and minuscus reconstruction on my left leg n I face pain in my right hip and in middle in lower back is it the same as you explained in video
There are definitely a lot of similarities as to why you may be experiencing back and hip pain right now, and my recommendations would be similar, too. Thanks for watching!
I had hip and knees replaced. My left knee did fab. Then my right. My other hurt my it band on my left. How can I get rid of my pain I do a little of pt seems is all day. So is complex in my case. Thank you.
It sounds like you've been through a lot with your hip and knee replacements, and I'm sorry to hear about the pain you're experiencing. Consider exercises that focus on hip strengthening and motor control. Some good exercises to try including bridging, clamshells, standing hip abduction to the side, supported squats, step ups.
I had a knee replacement surgery almost 4 weeks ago, I still use a walker although I'm trying to move on crutches and/or cane. I have been having hip and ankle pain (I had them since before), but now it's really hurting which is discouraging. In addition to arthritis I was born with arthrogryposis multiplex congenita, so my muscles and joints are a bit different. Not sure what to do.
Thank you for watching and commenting. As you know, AMC is a rare disease and can effect people in very different ways depending on the impact on the joints and muscles. For the best treatment, it truly takes a personalized approach and assessment from your surgeon, PT, and other health professionals... so unfortunately, I can't offer any specific advice, but I wish you the best and hope you can find some relief of your pain and symptoms.
My father had knee replacement surgery 45 days back. Now he has lower back pain left side. Please suggest what to do.
I suggest get an evaluation by a physical therapist who can prescribe specific exercises that will be most beneficial for your father.
Hi Peterson I want to ask that I am not able to go gym regularly so please tell me what exercise is alternate instead of cycling.
A good alternative to cycling is lots of walking, hiking, strengthening exercises, swimming. Thanks
Ok thank you so much Peterson I am trying to lots of walking but after ten minutes I started hip pain on my left side and also left thigh what should I do please help me thank you.
I have a treadmill can I use that because as you know I had my both knee replacement surgery please advise me your suggestion is very helpful for me.
@@asiyahrashid9897 Yes you can use the treadmill. I would continue to incorporate walking but use pain as a guide for how much. It is okay to work through a little bit of pain and discomfort, this is how you build tolerance and is not harmful, but you don't want to continue walking if your pain becomes too intense (5/10 or worse, for example) The idea is we want a happy medium where we stress the body to cause adaptation but not too much to cause and aggravation of symptoms. I would also encourage you to incorporate some strengthening exercises to help improve hip muscle strength and activity tolerance such as sit to stands, support body weight squats, bridging, clamshells, step ups, side stepping.
Ok thank you so much my son I will try to do as much as I can tolerate.
I had hip replacement and knee is killing me 😢but it was before surgery also 😊
Sorry to hear that… sometimes a hip replacement can relieve pain in the knee and leg but not always.
Hi Peterson I am Asiyah is here today I want to ask you what are best range of motion after total knee replacement I had my both knee replacement surgery my rang of motion is 125degree.
Hi Asiyah, so actually 0-125 degrees is typically the upper limit goal for those who are doing really well. Most people who achieve about 115 degrees of bend find they can do most anything they want with that level of mobility. A "normal" healthy knee has about 140 degrees of bend. I almost never see someone get to that range after surgery, but sometimes people will get around 130 degrees.
Hi Peterson I am very thankful for your reply,if my reng is good so now I can stop my exercise for reng of motion or continue.
@@asiyahrashid9897 There is no harm in continuing to do the range of motion exercises, but you don't have to continue them. I recommend at this point focus on some form of physical activity or exercise you enjoy and can do on a consistent basis. Maintaining overall health and well being is the best you can do for the health and longevity of your knees.
Thank you so much Peterson for your good suggestions
My hips hurt so bad but they was hurting before surgery. It is so excruciating
Sorry to hear this, hope this video helps and as you continue to rehab from surgery your hips will start feeling better, too!
I had right TKR in June of 23..it was a Kinetic alignment with robotic assist...everything was perfect for months...now since about March of 24 I've got this pain that radiates from in upper area of the right buttock and it's constant...
Sorry to hear this. This could be a couple different things most notably a low back issue causing radiating nerve pain into the buttock and leg, or an issue at the hip such as hip arthritis. If this doesn't clear up I would recommend getting connected with a PT to assess the back and whole body. You may very well be able to manage your pain and symptoms conservatively with therapy and exercises.
@@KneeReplacementTherapists thank you for the infomation...the pain doesn't go into the leg so I'm thinking it's not sciatica...I will take your advice and talk to a PT...I really don't want a hip replacement too but that's sure what I was envisioning!! Hopefully it won't come to that
Sir knee pain is noraml after hip replacement while am walking with stick i felt pain in my knee
This can be normal as you are likely moving differently and may have new stresses and loads through different areas such as the knee.
Hip pain is still a killer
Hopefully, you are starting to feel better. This definitely is a common complaint after knee replacement surgery.
I hurt it bringing my leg into the car going to therapy I felt it when I lifted my leg struggling to get into car
Sorry to hear that… you may have pulled on of the muscles around the hip joint… hope you feel better soon!
Thank you! For videos. I wish Physical therapists were Half as helpful, when I go to pT I pay 40.00 copay and it's a complete waste of time and money! They have the tunnel vision you mention and do not communicate.Its almost as though they are afraid to communicate or talk about anything that is not precisely what they are treating. They measure, give a hand out once in a while, exercise you in the same machines for a few minutes.See you next time, don't forget to pay. I learn so much more from your videos and others on TH-cam.Healthcare in US is a joke.
Unfortunately, I see a lot of the similar situations you are talking about. As physical therapists it is important we are providing a high level of value to our patients and also taking a holistic, whole-body approach to managing and treating. Thank you for watching and sharing your comment.
I agree. For me, all physio does is empty my wallet - load of rubbish.
Please just get to it sir! Practice your presentation before you give it. Your information is important present it in an efficient way.
I appreciate your feedback and will consider this for future videos. Thank you for watching!
I thought it was presented very well. He validates your feeling pain where my doctors dismissed it. Keep doing the way you do.
I agree I think this person is very rude and obviously and got issues, I’m enjoying your videos thank you Just ignore this idiot you have already got a lot of people including me value your knowledge Thank you for your time