My husband and I are 55 year old newly empty nest-ers. I have been spending the last year listening to friends who have trailers and we have even visited our local dealership. I can say with ALL certainty that I would much rather have price transparency up front. We are also VERY interested in smaller trailers that have premium features. ❤
I'm good with "tax and title" being added at the end, but the rest of it should be included in the price. Obviously those are the costs of being a dealer that should be included at the start.
Tell me about it, I took a hard look at a travel trailer 3 weeks ago, sat down to discuss numbers, and the OTD price was an insane 32% higher than the advertised price. Needless to say, I walked, but I was pissed that I drove 75 minutes one way and burned up a Saturday for nothing.
The reason places don't do that is that everybody goes on RV trader either to find the dealer they're going to go to or to beat up the dealer their at. It's going to be very uncompetitive to be one of the few doing that with their prep and doc fees up front.@@TheJirish
total out the door tax title and plates if not transferring then include that as well. when you go to Micky D,s does the cashier tell you the price with or without tax? nuff said
All the small campers look like they are built by the same manufacturer then slaped with someone's name i looked at a jayco slx and forstriver 16ev 16bhs all looked similar forest river had better options for the price jayco was a sister dealer to josh
Absolutely! Definitely want higher quality, smaller trailers - under 30 ft for fifth wheels and 25 ft travel trailers. Upgraded features and high quality builds.
@ Unless things change with other manufacturers, an Alliance is definitely in my future. There are so many ingenious floorpans from the others, but they have to step up the QC. I get it the components aren't gonna be 'the best' grade (or the price will be greater) but at least when you built it, make the build quality OF those components, to the best of your ability. That's where Alliance fills the void. They are using some of the same components BUT their build quality, the execution of their build and thoughtfulness, shines.
I wish that manufacturers would not assume that a customer wants less quality just for a smaller camper! Please give us the upgrades. Small shouldn’t necessarily mean less higher end options. I want a smaller high-ish end camper. For example, I would still like solid surface countertops and other things like better suspension, anti-lock brakes, etc. in a camper around 30 ft. Maybe offer those as options? We just went through this extensive shopping effort to try to find a slightly larger (but not a lot larger) camper. To get what we wanted we would have to go up in size to around 33-34 ft (and most even larger) in almost every brand. We gave up and we’ll stay with what we have. Not necessarily bad since we saved money abandoning the effort, but definitely identified a customer segment not catered to. This same thing happens in the housing industry.
Totally agree and I would say that Ember so far has done a good job with this. Not sure we can say this about any other brands, at least that I've seen.
I've said the same thing. The manufacturers don't seem to get that there are a number of customers who don't want a huge trailer but still want a premium level build and features. We bought a Grand Design 22MLE but really would have preferred solid surface counter tops and not having to install a better suspension after the fact. It looks like Grand Design has gotten the message to a degree with the new Imagine 2300MK but there is still a long way to go.
Smaller well built that will be mostly trouble free is very attractive to me anyway. The last thing I need is going camping and having to worry about fixing problems. Be it plumbing,electrical, or build issues. I just want to camp.
Regarding pricing, I've never bought a new RV, but have purchased used RVs from dealers. And new cars and trucks and bikes. In fact, I've bought (and often fixed/modified/customized/etc) and sold over 60 cars/trucks/motorcycles, so I have a bit of experience. And the WORST THING is to finish negotiating a price (often over a few days) and then go to sign the papers, and see a different price on the bottom line (and I mean "pre-taxes" -- just the sales price). The most common is the infamous "documentation fee", but there's also sometimes "dealer prep" (on a decade old trailer?) or "detailing" and myriad other fees. What I WILL PAY in extra fees is: state registration (or "titling") fees, and a temporary permit for driving/towing the unit. Otherwise, I have 2 strategies that work: #1. I say "Sorry, I don't pay documentation fees. That's part of the price." and if they say "we have to charge that" then a simple "see ya!" as I walk away often results in an immediate change in policy. #2. Faster technique (as you get older, your tolerance for wasting time and BS will, or should, decrease) is to take the sales agreement that has: Agreed/negotiated price. Extra #1 Extra #2 etc. Total price with all the extras. ---------- And when they present that agreement, (in triplicate or whatever the standard state form is, with the make, model, VIN, etc all filled in at the top) I just take the pen, and put a line through Extra #1, and another line through Extra #2, etc, and finally a line through the presented total. Then I print the agreed-to sales price, and I sign it, and give it back. If I hear the slightest protest, I calmly say "You have my cell number. Call me when the document is signed." then I'll walk out. I don't get a call typically, because the commission-based sales person will catch up with me before I get in my truck!
Your complete candid transparency is why i just bought my TT from you and Bish's. I appreciate the cost displayed online was the price +tax and tags. No extra costs but tow hitch (i needed) and no transportation costs. Driving from NY i passed many dealerships to get to Bish's door and it was worth it. Your people at Coldwater were awesome to deal with. It was also nice to meet you, and it looks like I made it in the end of the video 😆 Thanks Josh & Bish's
Yes, all in one off the lot pricing! No hidden or additional fees. I want to know the amount I have to write a check for. Really enjoy your monthly "state of the industry" report. Keep up the good work!
Hey Josh, YES an all in one price!!! I think that’s what pisses off alot of people is the fact that they look at these fantastic prices and then get hit by higher prices because they jack them up at the sale. Always great info Josh. Keep it Rockin Buddy
I'm not looking for cheaper, I'm looking for something I can tow with my midsize truck. I don't want to get a new vehicle just to tow a camper. I'd be extremely interested in a lightweight solid well built RV with appropriate amenities, countertops, plumbing connections, suspension, breaks, backup cameras, etc. Honestly, I basically want a hotel room for a couple: a decent queen bed with walkaround access, or twins with center access, a small closet and drawers to hang/store a week's worth of clothes, a sink, small fridge, microwave, coffee pot, a decent bathroom, a desk/dining along the wall (don't need a dinette), a TV, a sofa or easy chairs, a place to store suitcases, storage for a few things. An outside stove / grill would be ok. I want to go weekend camping, maybe a week vacation. But I'm not generally going to do a lot of cooking, we go eat at local restaurants for main meals. And I want to tow it with a midsized pickup that is rated at 5,000 lb tow capacity. Oh, and good cooling, because it gets dang hot in south Texas in the summer. 105 is common, 110 is not uncommon.
Tampa rv show was a bust for us, four of the biggest dealers said no to me hiring rv inspection blue ox and being able to get my deposit back if not happy with inspection or repair time line from manufacturer on new 300k+ diesel pusher...guess we doing cruises this year again 2nd time trying to upgrade from our travel trailer.
I can't imagine refusing to allow inspections like that. We have inspectors here at my home store all the time. We pull up the rv, plug it in, and let them go
Love your transparency, much appreciated! You’re my go to for the real deal! I quote you to my hubby and have him watching you too now! 😄👍. By the way, I prefer all in one pricing. Add on’s after you’ve said yes just piss me off! 🤣🤣 Thanks for what you do Josh!
I shopped Bish near Indy. All they had were 12v fridges. Finally found and bought a gently used '22 with a propane one. I wonder how long before consumer demand brings back absorption fridges?
Marvac RV show in Novi this past weekend was busier on Saturday because we had rain that froze overnight making Friday travel very hazardous. We were going to go on Friday but had to adjust plans to account for the weather. Saw you at the show, thanks for the stickers!
Sold my 40' Jayco Eagle and bought a 27' motorhome. When I call RV parks to make reservations, I usually get comments like "We can always find a spot for you!" It wasn't always that easy with a 40' trailer. That being said, I really DO miss that roomy Jayco. I get a little claustrophobic in the motor home. I've taken six trips in it so far, and I'm still not used to the smaller size, but the thing is sure a lot easier to park. Also, just give me the "out the door price" please. Thank you, and thank you, Josh, for another great video.
Definitely want better build quality on smaller trailers as that is what my wife and I are looking for. We also would prefer price out the door with no added fees. We’re waiting on the Go Lite vids to drop! Great info Josh!
I'm literally working on my Go Lite debut video now I will be the first to tell you: While they are fun and serve a purpose they're not the fanciest and most amazing-est built thing. The general build is very simple. They're made for fun little getaways and not full time use or rock crawling
Yes to small and premium rv’s. We don’t camp enough to make such a large investment. I still would like a good quality product. I’m interested in a toy hauler with a front East West king (even 66” wide is good but still 80” long) and a smallish front closet. I still want a queen over double sofa lift and some sort of medium sized sofa. And 36” would be the smallest measure on the shower - we are not petite people. But I do want light weight QUALITY. There is cabinetry that is not wood yet reliable quality. Love the innovation coming out but keep trying. Multipurpose is a desirable feature. Thanks for listening! 😊
Thanks Josh for all your videos! I would like to see final out the door pricing on all RVs. I would also like to see smaller RVs constructed with higher quality materials.
My wife & I love our Grand Design Transcend ML240, but wish we bought a travel trailer with the following... * Step in shower for wife to shave 🪒 her legs. * Washing & Dryer hookups and space. * Electric Fireplace. * 2nd AC unit for backup. * Water shutoff valves.
I was extremely impressed with this years Cleveland RV show in January. All the manufacturers were present with a huge selection. The new models and new designs/features were excellent. Lots of new ideas and layouts that were really well thought out.
Looking forward to the Go Lite deep dive! I saw the Go Lite series at the Indianapolis RV slow last month and actually liked them a lot. I will always die on the hill that roughing it in a tent is the only "real" camping but my fiancée grew up with a camper and finally broke me down. The thing I love about the Cloudbreaker is the duel awnings. Throw a canopy up between them and you basically triple your space with some truly excellent outdoor room. The only thing I'd do in a camper is sleep so having a nice outdoor space is an absolute must for me, and were it not for the fact that I have two big dogs I'd be all in on the Cloudbreaker. I did like the Boulderback as well, but I wish the ramp had a patio mode. If I opted for a toy hauler the Wolf Pup 18RJBW absolutely blows the Boulderback out of the water with it's size, storage, and exterior TV mount and leach latch (not to mention the patio mode for the ramp). As for the transparent pricing, one of the things that drives me into unjustified fits of rage is apps like ticketmaster and stubhub listing a price and having that price double at checkout. Apples to oranges but I would absolutely love seeing a price tag of $28,000 on a travel trailer and knowing that is exactly what I'm paying vs seeing $20,000 and then getting a bill for $28,000.
Regarding a smaller camper, I decided to purchase a 2025 Cherokee Grey Wolf 18RR Black Label, even though I own a F350. Just like you said, a smaller camper with premium amenities. Way less cost than the Forest River Vengeance Rogue 26VKS that I was about to buy, and still very comfortable for my personal needs.
Yes we want high quality smaller rvs. We ordered an Alliance Avenue 23ML fifth wheel and mentioned exactly that to their rep at the Florida RV Super Show. 👍👍
They did so good on that floor plan. Congratulations! If my videos were helpful for you in that decision-making process, then would you mind dropping me a quick review at g.page/r/CdPcitNVx2nDEAg/review by chance? It’ll cost you nothing and I’d sure appreciate it.
My "DREAM" RV? 7.5 to 8 feet wide. No slides. 6.5 interior height. Walk around queen. No propane. All electric. I have never used a camper cook top or oven. Electric water heater and fridge (12 volt?). 15-gallon freshwater tank would be plenty. 30 gallon black and grey tanks. No wet room. This could be towable or motorhome.
We've been camping for 30 years. Most of it is in a pop-up. Bought a travel trailer in 2019, pre-covid. There is so much i could say about how much camping changed after that, but the post would be way too long. With the crowding and increased prices just to camp. That being said, when they are asking over 100,000 for trucks, then the cost of an rv, obviously a huge range of prices there, but lets just pretend 50,000 for an inexpensive one. You're at 150,000 to camp. Then you have to make arrangements ahead of time to be sure you can get a spot. Then gas to get there. I dont know anymore, just seems i can go on a lot of nice vacations for 150,000 dollars without the headache of towing and the maintenance of having to always fix something on campers that are not of quality. That being said, i love the outdoors, and I have always loved camping. If i were to consider continuing , I, too, have been thinking smaller and with great quality to make it more affordable.
As the owner of a truck with a max of 5000lbs towing and 500 tongue weight I would love a smaller RV that doesn't look like I want to live a sparse life. The cost to move up to the full 1/2 ton trailer also includes the cost of a new truck and that just isn't in the cards right now. An RV with a few more amenities or, at the least a nice decor, at a reasonable price would be great. Thanks for the report and giving me hope for our first RV.
I like to go to RV shows without being followed around and harassed by dealers. If I have questions I will seek you out... I think RV shows should be free, let the public in to check it all out. Why should I pay to look at Rvs? Kinda like paying to go to the dealer!
So my previous comment was small and quality. It would also be nice to see a 16 foot or 24 foot or all travel trailers have two axles. I'm an older woman that travels by myself alot and am looking to trade my single axle for a two axle travel trailer . It's easier to change a flat on a two axle trailer. Why I bought a single axle is beyond me, I knew better . Some people might wonder why it's easier. Well once the lugnuts are loose they make ramps you can pull up on or back up on . No need to use some big old jack or crawl up under your travel trailer while stuck on the side of highway with people driving buy at 90 miles an hour.
The truck market has left the group that used to actually buy and USE the truck for work. The majority of people in the last few years who have driven the truck market have never used a truck to tow anything or actually carry anything. Those who use trucks have become tired of purchasing all the toys that break in a truck that has to be on the road to make $$, so those are buying used and repairing them.
I 100% in favor about out the door pricing. Ive walked away from car deals over excessive fees. So many of them need to be part of doing business or built into the price up front. On small RVs with higher quality is a great idea. In most cases it’s a catch 22. Quality material is heavier. Can be made smaller but weight wise it can still come out heavier.
Enjoyed all the information in this video. Complete transparency up front for costs is important. Do not like the surprise of hidden fees. I have no problem walking away if I think too much in hidden fees. I agree with you that quality should be put into smaller trailers. As well as a good floorplan and storage. I see wall space that could have a cabinet built for storage. I have a Subaru Forester that would be nice to tow a small trailer for my DIL & and I to use. Definitely shop off season for a trailer. Hubby & I checked prices even out of state. We drove out of state to get our last trailer a Rockwood Mini Lite 2513S. It saved us $10,000.00. Your video presentation sold us on this model. Made a nice little road trip bringing it home.
thanks again for great insight. Regarding the OTD price, our 2025 GP 19FD is now on order from .... BISH (coldwater), Why? Tyler up there again made it easy to get us the final price without a lot of BS, as compared to emails back and forth from other dealers, so, Florida flatlanders are coming back up to Coldwater to pick up our new camper and head a bit north to do some camping in upper MI before heading back home. Hopefully when we come up there will not be that white stuff on the ground like our last trip. Will say hi if you are in town when we come up. PS: FYI, we did pick up a new Mid-size Pickup to make certain we had more than enough tow capacity, so if you need a vehicle , NOW is the time, was able to get discount under dealer invoice.
I appreciate your honesty when showing Rv. I would love for Rv manufacturers to put some better products in the small campers. That would be awesome. Thank you for all you do.
We fit your theory, Josh. We bought a small, lightweight, WELL BUILT (to last) fully formed fiberglass (like a boat) Escape 5.0. It spans 21 ft in length. It is made in BC Canada. 🙏 They have also partnered with Retro Reno’s in Florida. Most if not all fiberglass “egg” RVs don’t go to the big shows because they are all special ordered from the factory by the consumer. Love how easy it is to get into pretty much all places. Tows like a dream. The size isn’t for everyone, but it sure is for us.
Went to Devos Place Grand Rapids show, lots of people Sunday, more than last time we went. Makes sense with many people not willing to take a day off work to go. Many groups including Bish’s said that Sunday was just as busy as Saturday right up to closing time.
As a first time buyer my thoughts are covid boosted sales, which allowed more cash flow for companies to modernize and get away from in my opinion that dingy brown and go white and black, making it feel more open
That might be a false assumption, all corporations first responsibility is shareholder profits. In a perfect world, yes manufacturers would have used the increased profits to improve. In our not so perfect world, profits get distributed, and improvements only happen when they NEED to, due to a sales slump. Many companies I’ve worked for don’t see the need to improve in good times as whatever they are doing is working. They recognize the need to improve when sales drop. 😊
after watching you for a while I bought an Rv from Bishs and had to drive to Nebr. Kansas hardly has any dealers and no Bishes RV. I almost bought an Alliance 262 rb from Lincoln Nebr. I liked the 252rl better they didn't have that model at this time. It was a couple weeks ago wind chill was 15 below the shower floor didn't seem solid. The only thing I didn't like. I was dealing with Bishrv out of Kearney and bought a Jayco from the same day. I liked the alliance better and more expensive but the shower floor made the difference.It was cold but was just as cold in the Jayco it was a smaller shower but felt solid. They were good people at Bishs RV in Kearney Nathan was the salesman I am working with. I enjoyed the experience
We just bought a 2022 travel trailer from a dealer that does not charge ANY additional fees in PA. I think that all fees should be included in the final sale price for the potential buyer to see.
Yes, smaller (less than 30 feet) premium travel trailers are what many of us are looking for. I've owned a pop-up, a small TT, a 5W, a Class A, a tiny TT, and now own a mid-sized Cougar TT. I can tow almost anything with a '24 diesel F-350, but don't want to give up the Diamondback for a 5th wheel hitch. We don't want to reconfigure everything before and after every trip, since we'd like to be on the road every couple of weeks. The need for external storage (hitch, chairs, tables and other outside furniture) eliminates Airstream as an option despite people using outdoor furniture in their brochures. The new small Brinkley is interesting but the indoor/outdoor TV looks like a better idea for the showroom than it will be after 4 years of bi-weekly roadtrips. Come on RV Industry, take some of the space you're using to build the biggest and baddest trailers and give us some premium 26-28 footers. We got in early with the bunkhouse + slide 5W 25-30 years ago but now we're ready for the retired couple premium market segment. Real bathroom, auto-level jacks, remote control of lights/pumps/AC/awnings, we'd rather have more storage than an outdoor kitchen but please leave a propane port under the awning, and room for solar and a LifePo4 battery bank. And for heaven's sake, get rid of the roof SAE solar connectors and get something with actual latches, like the MC4 that are almost designed for it, and run decent sized wire up there. A premium design should not have such built-in limitations. Make something we can enjoy for years and that the RV campgrounds won't hate to see pull up.
I was at the Fort Wayne show today, and one thing I noticed was I tripped and stumbled coming down the steps exiting several trailers. i will be 70 later this year. I noticed several other geezers in my age range stumbling coming down stair when leaving trailers. I have broken enough bones in the last few years from bad landings after a fall that steep stairs without solid railings on both sides would be a deal breaker. The one and only teardrop at the show had a floor that was probably 2 and a half to 3 feet off the ground. That was perfect for plopping down on my butt and scooting in, but getting in and out of standard RVs for me would insure job security for orthopedic surgeons and ER personnel.
I always enjoy your humor and informative videos. I prefer to know what the final cost is without surprise fees. Manufacturers need to pay attention to construction quality throughout the RV - plumbing, electrical, fasteners, sealants, appliances, flooring etc.
We attended this past weekend the RV show in Richmond, Va it was MUCH smaller than usual. There were only 5 dealer/manufacturers showing, and that was about half of normal. What we also noticed was the pricing vs quality aspect. There is A LOT of cheap stuff out there. We saw many travel trailers what had shower walls already coming unglued, cabinet doors that looked like they were made out of high end PLYWOOD and painted that had fraying all around the edges already. We also saw a lot of plastic sinks, flimsy shower doors, cheap faucets etc etc So one Must think "ok, if I can see this level of cheap quality this visible,,, WHAT CAN'T I SEE. We came back with two manufacturers that we felt comfortable buying product from. I was also surprised that NO Camping World was there, nor was their Airstream product either. Brinkley had a great showing and was one of the two that looked like they "gave a damn" what they made, along with Solitude. The rest was what in my industry we politely call "builder grade".
We picked up the Bushwhacker Plus RE. It has a great layout with a permanent queen bed, fold out couch for more sleeping, inside shower/toilet and outside shower. Inside kitchen and outside stove and sink, fridge, AC and a furnace as well as Solar connection already set up. #2300 dry weight we can tow with our smaller SUV EV. We haven’t found ANYTHING that has all that without compromising by combining the dining table and main bed. I don’t want to have to transform something into a bed. I want both and in a small camper that I can cook and prepare food inside. Being able to do that outside as well with the double cooking spaces is another bonus.
Out the door pricing is a must for us! We have had several RVs (large and small) over the years and have had the most fun with the small units. My wife and I currently have a small much older (completely rebuilt from the frame up) 5th wheel that is essentially a truck camper on wheels layout. We love it but are getting to the point we need to go to something that has sleeping accommodations that are reachable without climbing up into the bunk area over the hitch. We have been looking for a long time for a small, compact quality built travel trailer that is sized for 2 and laid out much like a full sized truck camper for road trips and mid-week camping use that has either twin beds or a walk around queen bed (no crawling over the spouse to get up in the night and no bendy Murphy beds). No dinette either, prefer a theatre seat for 2. It also needs a full bath (small side bath is ok but it must have a spit sink), no slide out, and a functional galley. Also solar with upgraded batteries and inverter.
It really does vary by organization and practices. I do understand why you feel that way though. The hardest part is even if a dealer does pass savings onto a customer, then there’s no real visibility of that at the consumer level.
Josh, I have to tell you that my husband and I really enjoy your videos. They are always very informative, very helpful, very detained and to our opinion very candid. These are things that are very important to us and we feel you are doing an awesome job! Thank you. Because of you, we want to do business with Bish's over others. We would love to be able to meet you, but we live south of Houston and because of my husband (who works for the Coast Guard)at not be able to take off enough time to drive up to your home town. Sadly... There are a couple of makes and models that we both really like, but we don't see them listed on Bish's website here in Texas. So we're looking into trying to get what we would like and have it brought down to us. I just really wanted you to know that before we found your videos, we had never heard of Bish's and now because of you, they are the ones we want to deal with. Thank you for your excellent job. You are very much appreciate.
One thing that may help you here is knowing that we could always have a unit transferred to our Texas store for you. We’re not able to ship an RV to another store just to look at, but if you know, it’s the one you want to purchase, then a local team member can facilitate All of the purchase logistics and organize something like a shipping quote from another store Initially, that sounds like you’re paying extra for shipping, but many times it’s no different having two small shipping charges in total versus one big shipping charge to a local dealership This is especially true for inventory that comes from our Michigan and Indiana stores where there is already no real shipping charge attached to it and it’s pretty much already on the way to you as it is
My big ask for 2026 models is better/improved suspensions (either totally get away from leaf springs and move to torsion suspensions or else SIGNIFICANTLY enhance leaf springs with vastly improved equalizers with heavy-duty shackles and wet bolts PLUS shocks) in the tandem axle, 1/2-ton towable and under $40k MSRP price range (with Azdel or comparable composite construction of course).
You aren't kidding, torsion is so far superior it's not funny. Down the road to me is a marginal change, but parking/ backing is far easier with torsion.
@, Josh what's your opinion (I don't know what to call it) on leaf spring suspensions with upgraded equalizers and shocks? If we're not planning to go off-road (just highways, state/national parks), are they better than torsion suspensions, or are they really a less expensive alternative to a Curt beast mode or MORryde IS? Thanks!
On my second new car purchase in 2003, I went with the dealership that I thought had the lowest price for a Ford Escape. When I showed up to sign, they’d added several fees which raised the price pretty significantly. The surprise was not fun. Since then, I ask for an "out the door" price to make it easy to compare between dealerships. When I buy a travel trailer, it’ll probably be from Bish’s but I’d definitely want to see out the door price, not a low price and then fees added. Close to retirement so looking to get a new hybrid Maverick (2025 can tow 4k) for my next vehicle so I have something strong enough to pull a travel trailer that’ll get great gas mileage when not towing.
Absolutely an all in one price is preferable. As an example- a local chain tire dealership advertises an "out the door" price on tires- no hidden fees. Tire sales are notorious, for example, advertising a $50 tire- only to cost $100 when the bill is totaled. Businesses fail to realize consumers have generally gotten more knowledgeable on product costs, especially on discretionary spending, as non- discretionary $$ have increased in their budgets
You may have and I missed it (apologies if so), but you should have mentioned if your value graphs at/around the 23 and 24 minute mark were CPI adjusted. That makes a big deal, especially in recent years. Love your videos. Thanks.
I'd like the total bottom line up front. I always dread making a"deal" with the sales rep and then meeting the finance person who tacks on a ton of fees and optional add ons.
Hi Josh, I went to Tampa to look at the Brinkley I-265. It’s a very nice camp trailer and I really liked it. On the way to see the Brinkley I ran across an Encore Venu 17QB prototype. I ended up buying the Venu. I like the extreme amount of storage, independent suspension and no slide. It’s about 5200 pound GVWR and 22 feet. This is not a budget trailer. It has aluminum cabinets and doors. It does have a wet bath and a cassette toilet so there are tradeoffs for the small size. I’m looking for an appropriate smaller pickup or an SUV to tow this little trailer. I’ll set aside my Super Duty diesel for the occasional tow of my heavier trailers. This camp trailer will serve me well as I can fit into any state, forest service or national park campsite. I call it my Grab and Go. Mark
Hi Josh, I always talk out the door price, because the bottom line is the bottom line. Lots of dealers do not like this approach because they want to play the game to extract maximum money from their customer. The other part of the "game" is the finance kickback. Its something I always ask about so I know how to take advantage by using an early payoff.
Outstanding presentation, as always, Josh. Of course I would prefer All-In-One. Will anyone prefer otherwise? (But this is Social Media so of COURSE they will!) And again, thanks to Bish’s for having some corporate character. Where I live it’s a rare thing.
In the Philippines the price for a new automobile is the price. There is no negotiations, there are sometimes discounts. Oh and the taxes are included so are destination fees. If you don't like the price, you buy a less expensive model. I love it. No surprises, no dealer markup b.s. buy or don't buy.
Yes to all in pricing. Yes to short (we) rigs that are still well appointed. Hubs and I are looking for a trailer under 25' with a table, fireplace, dual axel and not a Murphy bed. Not an easy find here in Ontario
We bought a used 2020 Eagle HT 29.5 BHOK in March of 2024 very good price and the dealer let it sit on their lot until the end of April. Late winter early spring is a great time to pickup a quality used rv.
Hello Josh, I won’t comment on your video dates, others have already done so 😂. Thanks again for those videos and being truthful as always. We RV consumers really appreciate this. Keep up your good work and have a good season beginning.
Outstanding information, Josh! I am really excited about the 2026 new model date change. I am looking to trade in my 2022 Alta for something a little bigger and knowing that the dealers will be extra "motivated" to close a deal warms my heart :)
Which Jayco trailer is in the background at 11:45 ? Love those large windows. Thanks for taking the time to put this, and all other videos together, and also all of the great tips! 👍😁
I agree on smaller and better quality. I'd like to see a TT with twin beds, good size shower/bath. Sink (1) & microwave small fridge. Kinda like a motel room. I don't need to cook inside.
Yes more quality in travel trailers. Geo pro has a dual axle this year and this is what I would like to see. More people have SUV and smaller tow vehicles but want to prioritize safety and ease of handling.
I prefer to see the real price, including all fees, for sure. And I would rather buy a little trailer that is higher quality and going to survive usage. I'll be downsizing this year, so definitely a concern. Thanks for asking, Josh!
Pricing - it's so frustrating when you're researching online. I have two specific trailers in mind, and online pricing ranges from 22K to 29K for the same unit. I don't want to go into a dealer and spend hours haggling and asking questions. Just tell me what the OTD price is, and I'll tell you if we can talk or not. Trucks - the biggest reason I'm delaying on a trailer is that I don't want to run and maintain a truck for any longer than I have to. When you spend x days towing your RV and 25 times x days not towing your RV, an SUV makes a whole lot more sense. Small trailers - yes and yes. The units I'm looking at are double Azdel, solar equipped, dual propane, with nice sized fridges and lots of storage. I'm happy to pay more for something that won't rattle to pieces on the way to a boondock spot, and sneaks in a few creature comforts too.
I bought my last 6 cars from Carmax because of the no hidden fees or gimmicks, so I would like to see the rv dealers do the same. I was lucky with my last rv purchase in that the dealer only added in costs for things that I ordered. I would never look at or buy an RV from Camping World because of all the bad publicity on their fees and service. Thanks for the update, and have a great weekend.
Plenty of dealers still have transparent pricing, but as nationwide dealers continue to acquire and consolidate the small stores it seems to be getting worse instead of getting butter
Great stuff as usual Josh! I would loose my mind if Hulkamania was running wild on the campground I was staying at. The 11 year old kid that still lives inside me would freak out!!
There is a real lack of high quality luxury smaller rv's on the market. Thank you Josh for another great video. Come on down to the Houston TX RV show next Wednesday, and I'll buy you a brewsky!
We're in Tampa and it was a wildly cold month for us! We went to the show Sunday and basically got rained out but it was still fun! LOL We also bought our first RV and had a terrible experience with the financial side of it. We bought used to save some money and only realized after the papers were signed that they had hidden the fees I was going to argue out of in the "base" price of the RV so I missed it. Ended up paying $1290 in freight... on a used unit, and $690 in prep fees to then have to clean one of the dirtiest ACs I've seen(and I'm an HVAC tech for a living), and another $700 in doc fees which from what I've gathered is also ridiculous. All this on a unit that was supposed to be $8000 to begin with. Price transparency would be incredible to guarantee legally. We will likely drive all the way to Bish's next time!
You asked a couple of questions on price and on small RVs. If I had my way, every car, truck, RV, boat would have a single sticker price it takes to drive off the lot. It would encourage competition because it would make comparison shopping much easier. In a similar thought, my wife and I would love to see more variety of smaller campers that are quality built. We'd be willing to pay more, if the price to value ratio was reasonable. Value has to matter. It won't help the market if the price for a small RV starts to approach the price of a 5th wheel.
I agree with the single Price concept. The first wrinkle is the fact, different states handle taxes differently. But standardizing everything that does not include state fees is a very reasonable thing I think.
Just give me the out the door price including tags and taxes right on the price tag. If the tax or tags is different for an out of state buyer, they can ask for the adjustment.
My husband and I are 55 year old newly empty nest-ers. I have been spending the last year listening to friends who have trailers and we have even visited our local dealership. I can say with ALL certainty that I would much rather have price transparency up front. We are also VERY interested in smaller trailers that have premium features. ❤
Ty for this
Yes! Absolutely we like price out the door. We always ask the dealers that when we buy a vehicle. Don’t want any of that BS!
I'm good with "tax and title" being added at the end, but the rest of it should be included in the price. Obviously those are the costs of being a dealer that should be included at the start.
Tell me about it, I took a hard look at a travel trailer 3 weeks ago, sat down to discuss numbers, and the OTD price was an insane 32% higher than the advertised price. Needless to say, I walked, but I was pissed that I drove 75 minutes one way and burned up a Saturday for nothing.
@@cindyross314 i agree
The reason places don't do that is that everybody goes on RV trader either to find the dealer they're going to go to or to beat up the dealer their at. It's going to be very uncompetitive to be one of the few doing that with their prep and doc fees up front.@@TheJirish
total out the door tax title and plates if not transferring then include that as well. when you go to Micky D,s does the cashier tell you the price with or without tax? nuff said
I would love just the out the door price. No hidden fees or anything. Tell me how much it's going to cost.
Love the videos keep it up!
Then there is the Finance Office trying to upsell you......
Thank you I feel the same
I agree with you Josh! I would pay for smaller premium trailer just because I don't want the length but want more quality in a smaller package.
All the small campers look like they are built by the same manufacturer then slaped with someone's name i looked at a jayco slx and forstriver 16ev 16bhs all looked similar forest river had better options for the price jayco was a sister dealer to josh
Absolutely! Definitely want higher quality, smaller trailers - under 30 ft for fifth wheels and 25 ft travel trailers. Upgraded features and high quality builds.
I hear you! It would be nice to see more.
@ Unless things change with other manufacturers, an Alliance is definitely in my future. There are so many ingenious floorpans from the others, but they have to step up the QC. I get it the components aren't gonna be 'the best' grade (or the price will be greater) but at least when you built it, make the build quality OF those components, to the best of your ability. That's where Alliance fills the void. They are using some of the same components BUT their build quality, the execution of their build and thoughtfulness, shines.
I wish that manufacturers would not assume that a customer wants less quality just for a smaller camper! Please give us the upgrades. Small shouldn’t necessarily mean less higher end options. I want a smaller high-ish end camper. For example, I would still like solid surface countertops and other things like better suspension, anti-lock brakes, etc. in a camper around 30 ft. Maybe offer those as options? We just went through this extensive shopping effort to try to find a slightly larger (but not a lot larger) camper. To get what we wanted we would have to go up in size to around 33-34 ft (and most even larger) in almost every brand. We gave up and we’ll stay with what we have. Not necessarily bad since we saved money abandoning the effort, but definitely identified a customer segment not catered to. This same thing happens in the housing industry.
YES! I just want value! I don’t mind paying more IF it gives me something more, be it insulation, function, or whatever.
Totally agree and I would say that Ember so far has done a good job with this. Not sure we can say this about any other brands, at least that I've seen.
I've said the same thing. The manufacturers don't seem to get that there are a number of customers who don't want a huge trailer but still want a premium level build and features. We bought a Grand Design 22MLE but really would have preferred solid surface counter tops and not having to install a better suspension after the fact. It looks like Grand Design has gotten the message to a degree with the new Imagine 2300MK but there is still a long way to go.
@@oldengineer1519 yep, I'm interested in the 19BHE, but I'll need to upgrade suspension, fans, maybe counters, entry steps, stabilizers...
Nu camp is awesome. I wish they were a bit bigger like 2 ft or so
Smaller well built that will be mostly trouble free is very attractive to me anyway. The last thing I need is going camping and having to worry about fixing problems. Be it plumbing,electrical, or build issues. I just want to camp.
I think any reasonable person agrees
Regarding pricing, I've never bought a new RV, but have purchased used RVs from dealers. And new cars and trucks and bikes. In fact, I've bought (and often fixed/modified/customized/etc) and sold over 60 cars/trucks/motorcycles, so I have a bit of experience.
And the WORST THING is to finish negotiating a price (often over a few days) and then go to sign the papers, and see a different price on the bottom line (and I mean "pre-taxes" -- just the sales price). The most common is the infamous "documentation fee", but there's also sometimes "dealer prep" (on a decade old trailer?) or "detailing" and myriad other fees.
What I WILL PAY in extra fees is: state registration (or "titling") fees, and a temporary permit for driving/towing the unit.
Otherwise, I have 2 strategies that work:
#1. I say "Sorry, I don't pay documentation fees. That's part of the price." and if they say "we have to charge that" then a simple "see ya!" as I walk away often results in an immediate change in policy.
#2. Faster technique (as you get older, your tolerance for wasting time and BS will, or should, decrease) is to take the sales agreement that has:
Agreed/negotiated price.
Extra #1
Extra #2
etc.
Total price with all the extras.
----------
And when they present that agreement, (in triplicate or whatever the standard state form is, with the make, model, VIN, etc all filled in at the top) I just take the pen, and put a line through Extra #1, and another line through Extra #2, etc, and finally a line through the presented total. Then I print the agreed-to sales price, and I sign it, and give it back.
If I hear the slightest protest, I calmly say "You have my cell number. Call me when the document is signed." then I'll walk out.
I don't get a call typically, because the commission-based sales person will catch up with me before I get in my truck!
Agree
I do think having it all upfront and sticking to your guns is the best way to go
Your complete candid transparency is why i just bought my TT from you and Bish's. I appreciate the cost displayed online was the price +tax and tags. No extra costs but tow hitch (i needed) and no transportation costs. Driving from NY i passed many dealerships to get to Bish's door and it was worth it. Your people at Coldwater were awesome to deal with. It was also nice to meet you, and it looks like I made it in the end of the video 😆
Thanks Josh & Bish's
That’s awesome! We try to make the process as clear as possible. Glad you’re enjoying your new RV!
I would love to see quality and consistency over quantity.
That would be nice. I feel like some companies would need to almost start over to make that happen.
Yes, all in one off the lot pricing! No hidden or additional fees. I want to know the amount I have to write a check for. Really enjoy your monthly "state of the industry" report. Keep up the good work!
I’m glad you found it useful!
Hey Josh, YES an all in one price!!! I think that’s what pisses off alot of people is the fact that they look at these fantastic prices and then get hit by higher prices because they jack them up at the sale. Always great info Josh. Keep it Rockin Buddy
I'm not looking for cheaper, I'm looking for something I can tow with my midsize truck. I don't want to get a new vehicle just to tow a camper. I'd be extremely interested in a lightweight solid well built RV with appropriate amenities, countertops, plumbing connections, suspension, breaks, backup cameras, etc. Honestly, I basically want a hotel room for a couple: a decent queen bed with walkaround access, or twins with center access, a small closet and drawers to hang/store a week's worth of clothes, a sink, small fridge, microwave, coffee pot, a decent bathroom, a desk/dining along the wall (don't need a dinette), a TV, a sofa or easy chairs, a place to store suitcases, storage for a few things. An outside stove / grill would be ok. I want to go weekend camping, maybe a week vacation. But I'm not generally going to do a lot of cooking, we go eat at local restaurants for main meals. And I want to tow it with a midsized pickup that is rated at 5,000 lb tow capacity. Oh, and good cooling, because it gets dang hot in south Texas in the summer. 105 is common, 110 is not uncommon.
Because Trucks have become very overpriced!
I could sign my name to this post. Nailed it!
Yeah, the smaller vehicle market for things that aren’t half ton pick ups seems like it’s been almost forgotten by a lot of manufacturers
Glad you are thinking of us 27 years in the future. That is the exact year I turn 65 and I plan to retire into an RV so this is important lol
😂 🤦🏻♂️
Out the door pricing, for the win!!
#Nerdherd! 🇨🇦
👍🏻
Tampa rv show was a bust for us, four of the biggest dealers said no to me hiring rv inspection blue ox and being able to get my deposit back if not happy with inspection or repair time line from manufacturer on new 300k+ diesel pusher...guess we doing cruises this year again 2nd time trying to upgrade from our travel trailer.
I can't imagine refusing to allow inspections like that. We have inspectors here at my home store all the time. We pull up the rv, plug it in, and let them go
Love your transparency, much appreciated! You’re my go to for the real deal! I quote you to my hubby and have him watching you too now! 😄👍. By the way, I prefer all in one pricing. Add on’s after you’ve said yes just piss me off! 🤣🤣 Thanks for what you do Josh!
You got it thank you
FYI. I am boondocking in AZ. Most the new big rigs are running generators to keep the electric fridge running. Saving the planet!!!
Diesel gennys running EV charging stations
I shopped Bish near Indy. All they had were 12v fridges. Finally found and bought a gently used '22 with a propane one.
I wonder how long before consumer demand brings back absorption fridges?
😆
Quality. In so many ways. Quality video. Quality products. Quality people. Quality experiences.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Marvac RV show in Novi this past weekend was busier on Saturday because we had rain that froze overnight making Friday travel very hazardous. We were going to go on Friday but had to adjust plans to account for the weather. Saw you at the show, thanks for the stickers!
Yeah friday traffic was off for sure due to that weather
Yes! I am not only interested but am actively looking for a smaller, well equipped, well built camper.
I’m kind of curious, what sort of name brands come to your head when you describe that sort of camper
Sold my 40' Jayco Eagle and bought a 27' motorhome. When I call RV parks to make reservations, I usually get comments like "We can always find a spot for you!" It wasn't always that easy with a 40' trailer. That being said, I really DO miss that roomy Jayco. I get a little claustrophobic in the motor home. I've taken six trips in it so far, and I'm still not used to the smaller size, but the thing is sure a lot easier to park.
Also, just give me the "out the door price" please. Thank you, and thank you, Josh, for another great video.
It sounds like you're really enjoying your new rig despite the size difference!
@@JoshtheRVNerd Thanks, I'm adjusting.
Definitely want better build quality on smaller trailers as that is what my wife and I are looking for. We also would prefer price out the door with no added fees. We’re waiting on the Go Lite vids to drop! Great info Josh!
I'm literally working on my Go Lite debut video now
I will be the first to tell you: While they are fun and serve a purpose they're not the fanciest and most amazing-est built thing. The general build is very simple. They're made for fun little getaways and not full time use or rock crawling
Yes to small and premium rv’s. We don’t camp enough to make such a large investment. I still would like a good quality product.
I’m interested in a toy hauler with a front East West king (even 66” wide is good but still 80” long) and a smallish front closet. I still want a queen over double sofa lift and some sort of medium sized sofa. And 36” would be the smallest measure on the shower - we are not petite people. But I do want light weight QUALITY. There is cabinetry that is not wood yet reliable quality. Love the innovation coming out but keep trying. Multipurpose is a desirable feature.
Thanks for listening! 😊
haulers are in a tough spot right now from what I see in the marketplace
Thanks Josh for all your videos! I would like to see final out the door pricing on all RVs. I would also like to see smaller RVs constructed with higher quality materials.
TY Brian
My wife & I love our Grand Design Transcend ML240, but wish we bought a travel trailer with the following...
* Step in shower for wife to shave 🪒 her legs.
* Washing & Dryer hookups and space.
* Electric Fireplace.
* 2nd AC unit for backup.
* Water shutoff valves.
Great Scott!
Where we're going we don't need roads...
Back to the Future!
Enjoyed hearing you talking to people at the RV Show in Novi ! Your voice is so recognizable!
It seems to stick out of a crowd!
...especially with a microphone and speaker system lol
I was extremely impressed with this years Cleveland RV show in January. All the manufacturers were present with a huge selection. The new models and new designs/features were excellent. Lots of new ideas and layouts that were really well thought out.
Yeah, everything I hear. Sounds like that was an amazing display.
Looking forward to the Go Lite deep dive! I saw the Go Lite series at the Indianapolis RV slow last month and actually liked them a lot. I will always die on the hill that roughing it in a tent is the only "real" camping but my fiancée grew up with a camper and finally broke me down. The thing I love about the Cloudbreaker is the duel awnings. Throw a canopy up between them and you basically triple your space with some truly excellent outdoor room. The only thing I'd do in a camper is sleep so having a nice outdoor space is an absolute must for me, and were it not for the fact that I have two big dogs I'd be all in on the Cloudbreaker. I did like the Boulderback as well, but I wish the ramp had a patio mode. If I opted for a toy hauler the Wolf Pup 18RJBW absolutely blows the Boulderback out of the water with it's size, storage, and exterior TV mount and leach latch (not to mention the patio mode for the ramp).
As for the transparent pricing, one of the things that drives me into unjustified fits of rage is apps like ticketmaster and stubhub listing a price and having that price double at checkout. Apples to oranges but I would absolutely love seeing a price tag of $28,000 on a travel trailer and knowing that is exactly what I'm paying vs seeing $20,000 and then getting a bill for $28,000.
go lites coming soon!
Regarding a smaller camper, I decided to purchase a 2025 Cherokee Grey Wolf 18RR Black Label, even though I own a F350. Just like you said, a smaller camper with premium amenities. Way less cost than the Forest River Vengeance Rogue 26VKS that I was about to buy, and still very comfortable for my personal needs.
Glad it worked out for you!
Yes we want high quality smaller rvs. We ordered an Alliance Avenue 23ML fifth wheel and mentioned exactly that to their rep at the Florida RV Super Show. 👍👍
They did so good on that floor plan. Congratulations!
If my videos were helpful for you in that decision-making process, then would you mind dropping me a quick review at g.page/r/CdPcitNVx2nDEAg/review by chance? It’ll cost you nothing and I’d sure appreciate it.
Yes, good quality smaller trailers.
Thank you
My "DREAM" RV? 7.5 to 8 feet wide. No slides. 6.5 interior height. Walk around queen. No propane. All electric. I have never used a camper cook top or oven. Electric water heater and fridge (12 volt?). 15-gallon freshwater tank would be plenty. 30 gallon black and grey tanks. No wet room. This could be towable or motorhome.
Apart from the no propane, which is easy to change out, that sounds like an Airstream to me.
We've been camping for 30 years. Most of it is in a pop-up. Bought a travel trailer in 2019, pre-covid. There is so much i could say about how much camping changed after that, but the post would be way too long. With the crowding and increased prices just to camp. That being said, when they are asking over 100,000 for trucks, then the cost of an rv, obviously a huge range of prices there, but lets just pretend 50,000 for an inexpensive one. You're at 150,000 to camp. Then you have to make arrangements ahead of time to be sure you can get a spot. Then gas to get there. I dont know anymore, just seems i can go on a lot of nice vacations for 150,000 dollars without the headache of towing and the maintenance of having to always fix something on campers that are not of quality. That being said, i love the outdoors, and I have always loved camping. If i were to consider continuing , I, too, have been thinking smaller and with great quality to make it more affordable.
It is definitely a different world out there!
As the owner of a truck with a max of 5000lbs towing and 500 tongue weight I would love a smaller RV that doesn't look like I want to live a sparse life. The cost to move up to the full 1/2 ton trailer also includes the cost of a new truck and that just isn't in the cards right now. An RV with a few more amenities or, at the least a nice decor, at a reasonable price would be great.
Thanks for the report and giving me hope for our first RV.
It is tough to find something that fits your towing capacity without going bare bones and basic in the current market for sure
Hey Josh, thanks again for the update as always. Looking forward to what’s to come.
ty!
Josh - you’re the only person I’d trust to forecast 2052. Do you have crop predictions? 😎🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Hahahahah 🤦🏻♂️
I like to go to RV shows without being followed around and harassed by dealers. If I have questions I will seek you out... I think RV shows should be free, let the public in to check it all out. Why should I pay to look at Rvs? Kinda like paying to go to the dealer!
We had a bunch of people buy from us this past weekend specifically for the reason that we let them cruise around without harassing them
So my previous comment was small and quality. It would also be nice to see a 16 foot or 24 foot or all travel trailers have two axles. I'm an older woman that travels by myself alot and am looking to trade my single axle for a two axle travel trailer . It's easier to change a flat on a two axle trailer. Why I bought a single axle is beyond me, I knew better . Some people might wonder why it's easier. Well once the lugnuts are loose they make ramps you can pull up on or back up on . No need to use some big old jack or crawl up under your travel trailer while stuck on the side of highway with people driving buy at 90 miles an hour.
There does continue to be a push for tandem Max’s in smaller sizes. I hope manufacturers follow through with it.
The truck market has left the group that used to actually buy and USE the truck for work.
The majority of people in the last few years who have driven the truck market have never used a truck to tow anything or actually carry anything.
Those who use trucks have become tired of purchasing all the toys that break in a truck that has to be on the road to make $$, so those are buying used and repairing them.
I 100% in favor about out the door pricing. Ive walked away from car deals over excessive fees. So many of them need to be part of doing business or built into the price up front. On small RVs with higher quality is a great idea. In most cases it’s a catch 22. Quality material is heavier. Can be made smaller but weight wise it can still come out heavier.
Yeah that's an excellent point. Sometimes better built means more than just more expensive.. it can also mean heavier
Enjoyed all the information in this video. Complete transparency up front for costs is important. Do not like the surprise of hidden fees. I have no problem walking away if I think too much in hidden fees. I agree with you that quality should be put into smaller trailers. As well as a good floorplan and storage. I see wall space that could have a cabinet built for storage. I have a Subaru Forester that would be nice to tow a small trailer for my DIL & and I to use. Definitely shop off season for a trailer. Hubby & I checked prices even out of state. We drove out of state to get our last trailer a Rockwood Mini Lite 2513S. It saved us $10,000.00. Your video presentation sold us on this model. Made a nice little road trip bringing it home.
wow 10 grand?! that's crazy! Good for you
thanks again for great insight. Regarding the OTD price, our 2025 GP 19FD is now on order from .... BISH (coldwater), Why? Tyler up there again made it easy to get us the final price without a lot of BS, as compared to emails back and forth from other dealers, so, Florida flatlanders are coming back up to Coldwater to pick up our new camper and head a bit north to do some camping in upper MI before heading back home. Hopefully when we come up there will not be that white stuff on the ground like our last trip. Will say hi if you are in town when we come up.
PS: FYI, we did pick up a new Mid-size Pickup to make certain we had more than enough tow capacity, so if you need a vehicle , NOW is the time, was able to get discount under dealer invoice.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I really appreciate you picking our doorstep.
2052 is a long ways away😮
Naaah. 2502... 2052 is around the corner
As I get older, time moves faster. It feels like 1980 was last week, so 2052 will be just as soon. 😊
But you have to be impressed that he can predict that far out….
@@Erin-ThorGet real, 1980 was like 20 years ago, man! 🤣 🤣 🤣
@@GaryBrownrigg - Yes, if you are young. For some of us it feels like last week! 🤣
Small, well-built rv is what we love. That's why we have an intech sol horizon
I appreciate your honesty when showing Rv. I would love for Rv manufacturers to put some better products in the small campers. That would be awesome. Thank you for all you do.
You’re welcome! I’m hoping that they are listening!
We fit your theory, Josh.
We bought a small, lightweight, WELL BUILT (to last) fully formed fiberglass (like a boat) Escape 5.0. It spans 21 ft in length. It is made in BC Canada. 🙏 They have also partnered with Retro Reno’s in Florida. Most if not all fiberglass “egg” RVs don’t go to the big shows because they are all special ordered from the factory by the consumer.
Love how easy it is to get into pretty much all places. Tows like a dream. The size isn’t for everyone, but it sure is for us.
Hey Uncle Josh!! Thank you so much for the industry update, amazing info as always! Go Team Bish's!
TY Jennifer!
Went to Devos Place Grand Rapids show, lots of people Sunday, more than last time we went. Makes sense with many people not willing to take a day off work to go. Many groups including Bish’s said that Sunday was just as busy as Saturday right up to closing time.
I was there friday and saturday. Saturday was busy "bell to bell" really
As a first time buyer my thoughts are covid boosted sales, which allowed more cash flow for companies to modernize and get away from in my opinion that dingy brown and go white and black, making it feel more open
That might be a false assumption, all corporations first responsibility is shareholder profits. In a perfect world, yes manufacturers would have used the increased profits to improve. In our not so perfect world, profits get distributed, and improvements only happen when they NEED to, due to a sales slump. Many companies I’ve worked for don’t see the need to improve in good times as whatever they are doing is working. They recognize the need to improve when sales drop. 😊
after watching you for a while I bought an Rv from Bishs and had to drive to Nebr. Kansas hardly has any dealers and no Bishes RV. I almost bought an Alliance 262 rb from Lincoln Nebr. I liked the 252rl better they didn't have that model at this time. It was a couple weeks ago wind chill was 15 below the shower floor didn't seem solid. The only thing I didn't like. I was dealing with Bishrv out of Kearney and bought a Jayco from the same day. I liked the alliance better and more expensive but the shower floor made the difference.It was cold but was just as cold in the Jayco it was a smaller shower but felt solid. They were good people at Bishs RV in Kearney Nathan was the salesman I am working with. I enjoyed the experience
We are always looking to expand. Perhaps there’s some space in Kansas we should be considering
Hays Kansas
Yes, the all in one price.
Also, a high end, small RV would be great.
Josh, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
I do my best. Thank you for watching.
Small with quality please! And best off grid features. Some of us want small so we can get to places others can't reach and still do it with comfort!
Absolutely. Thank you.
We just bought a 2022 travel trailer from a dealer that does not charge ANY additional fees in PA. I think that all fees should be included in the final sale price for the potential buyer to see.
Share their name so others can have a similar experience
That kind of stuff doesn’t bother me
Yes, smaller (less than 30 feet) premium travel trailers are what many of us are looking for. I've owned a pop-up, a small TT, a 5W, a Class A, a tiny TT, and now own a mid-sized Cougar TT. I can tow almost anything with a '24 diesel F-350, but don't want to give up the Diamondback for a 5th wheel hitch. We don't want to reconfigure everything before and after every trip, since we'd like to be on the road every couple of weeks. The need for external storage (hitch, chairs, tables and other outside furniture) eliminates Airstream as an option despite people using outdoor furniture in their brochures. The new small Brinkley is interesting but the indoor/outdoor TV looks like a better idea for the showroom than it will be after 4 years of bi-weekly roadtrips. Come on RV Industry, take some of the space you're using to build the biggest and baddest trailers and give us some premium 26-28 footers. We got in early with the bunkhouse + slide 5W 25-30 years ago but now we're ready for the retired couple premium market segment. Real bathroom, auto-level jacks, remote control of lights/pumps/AC/awnings, we'd rather have more storage than an outdoor kitchen but please leave a propane port under the awning, and room for solar and a LifePo4 battery bank. And for heaven's sake, get rid of the roof SAE solar connectors and get something with actual latches, like the MC4 that are almost designed for it, and run decent sized wire up there. A premium design should not have such built-in limitations. Make something we can enjoy for years and that the RV campgrounds won't hate to see pull up.
I was at the Fort Wayne show today, and one thing I noticed was I tripped and stumbled coming down the steps exiting several trailers. i will be 70 later this year. I noticed several other geezers in my age range stumbling coming down stair when leaving trailers. I have broken enough bones in the last few years from bad landings after a fall that steep stairs without solid railings on both sides would be a deal breaker. The one and only teardrop at the show had a floor that was probably 2 and a half to 3 feet off the ground. That was perfect for plopping down on my butt and scooting in, but getting in and out of standard RVs for me would insure job security for orthopedic surgeons and ER personnel.
I feel like that’s always been a bit of a concern point for RVs. Some of the bigger handles now are nice, but you really always need to be careful.
I always enjoy your humor and informative videos. I prefer to know what the final cost is without surprise fees. Manufacturers need to pay attention to construction quality throughout the RV - plumbing, electrical, fasteners, sealants, appliances, flooring etc.
I’m glad a lot of people feel this way
We attended this past weekend the RV show in Richmond, Va it was MUCH smaller than usual. There were only 5 dealer/manufacturers showing, and that was about half of normal. What we also noticed was the pricing vs quality aspect. There is A LOT of cheap stuff out there. We saw many travel trailers what had shower walls already coming unglued, cabinet doors that looked like they were made out of high end PLYWOOD and painted that had fraying all around the edges already. We also saw a lot of plastic sinks, flimsy shower doors, cheap faucets etc etc So one Must think "ok, if I can see this level of cheap quality this visible,,, WHAT CAN'T I SEE. We came back with two manufacturers that we felt comfortable buying product from. I was also surprised that NO Camping World was there, nor was their Airstream product either. Brinkley had a great showing and was one of the two that looked like they "gave a damn" what they made, along with Solitude. The rest was what in my industry we politely call "builder grade".
Went to the Tampa show yesterday rainy the few days before. Went on Friday and the weather was perfect. The Leisure vans out front were all sold. 😮
I would be curious to see what it’s like down there sometime
I am for All-In-One pricing, and Smaller Premium Trailers. Being a 1/2 Ton truck owner I just can't tow the bigger better trailers.
Thank you
We picked up the Bushwhacker Plus RE. It has a great layout with a permanent queen bed, fold out couch for more sleeping, inside shower/toilet and outside shower. Inside kitchen and outside stove and sink, fridge, AC and a furnace as well as Solar connection already set up. #2300 dry weight we can tow with our smaller SUV EV. We haven’t found ANYTHING that has all that without compromising by combining the dining table and main bed. I don’t want to have to transform something into a bed. I want both and in a small camper that I can cook and prepare food inside. Being able to do that outside as well with the double cooking spaces is another bonus.
Yeah, those have some good little layouts on them and are easily overlooked in the marketplace from what I’ve seen
Smaller but well built RVs is what I'm waiting for...
Out the door pricing is a must for us!
We have had several RVs (large and small) over the years and have had the most fun with the small units.
My wife and I currently have a small much older (completely rebuilt from the frame up) 5th wheel that is essentially a truck camper on wheels layout. We love it but are getting to the point we need to go to something that has sleeping accommodations that are reachable without climbing up into the bunk area over the hitch.
We have been looking for a long time for a small, compact quality built travel trailer that is sized for 2 and laid out much like a full sized truck camper for road trips and mid-week camping use that has either twin beds or a walk around queen bed (no crawling over the spouse to get up in the night and no bendy Murphy beds). No dinette either, prefer a theatre seat for 2. It also needs a full bath (small side bath is ok but it must have a spit sink), no slide out, and a functional galley. Also solar with upgraded batteries and inverter.
Honestly, I don't see dealers lowering the price of any products. They already pass on the extra cost to the consumers.
It really does vary by organization and practices. I do understand why you feel that way though. The hardest part is even if a dealer does pass savings onto a customer, then there’s no real visibility of that at the consumer level.
Yes! Absolutely want to see manufacturers go towards a smaller well built model that can be towed by a smaller vehicle. Thanks for all you do!!
Great to know thank you
Josh, I have to tell you that my husband and I really enjoy your videos. They are always very informative, very helpful, very detained and to our opinion very candid. These are things that are very important to us and we feel you are doing an awesome job! Thank you.
Because of you, we want to do business with Bish's over others. We would love to be able to meet you, but we live south of Houston and because of my husband (who works for the Coast Guard)at not be able to take off enough time to drive up to your home town. Sadly... There are a couple of makes and models that we both really like, but we don't see them listed on Bish's website here in Texas. So we're looking into trying to get what we would like and have it brought down to us. I just really wanted you to know that before we found your videos, we had never heard of Bish's and now because of you, they are the ones we want to deal with. Thank you for your excellent job. You are very much appreciate.
One thing that may help you here is knowing that we could always have a unit transferred to our Texas store for you. We’re not able to ship an RV to another store just to look at, but if you know, it’s the one you want to purchase, then a local team member can facilitate All of the purchase logistics and organize something like a shipping quote from another store
Initially, that sounds like you’re paying extra for shipping, but many times it’s no different having two small shipping charges in total versus one big shipping charge to a local dealership
This is especially true for inventory that comes from our Michigan and Indiana stores where there is already no real shipping charge attached to it and it’s pretty much already on the way to you as it is
Thank you for the honest information! It is a refreshing experience.
Glad it was helpful!
Quality is important to me. I’m less price sensitive. I hate problems on products I’ve purchased.
well said
My big ask for 2026 models is better/improved suspensions (either totally get away from leaf springs and move to torsion suspensions or else SIGNIFICANTLY enhance leaf springs with vastly improved equalizers with heavy-duty shackles and wet bolts PLUS shocks) in the tandem axle, 1/2-ton towable and under $40k MSRP price range (with Azdel or comparable composite construction of course).
You aren't kidding, torsion is so far superior it's not funny. Down the road to me is a marginal change, but parking/ backing is far easier with torsion.
Did you mean 2062? 😊
I do hope as we continue to see more conversations about suspension that manufactures continue to provide better solutions on more models
@, Josh what's your opinion (I don't know what to call it) on leaf spring suspensions with upgraded equalizers and shocks? If we're not planning to go off-road (just highways, state/national parks), are they better than torsion suspensions, or are they really a less expensive alternative to a Curt beast mode or MORryde IS? Thanks!
I know ur good at ur job Josh!!! But, this is amazing. Getting ahead of trends for 2052!!!
Man, I’m trying thank you
On my second new car purchase in 2003, I went with the dealership that I thought had the lowest price for a Ford Escape. When I showed up to sign, they’d added several fees which raised the price pretty significantly. The surprise was not fun. Since then, I ask for an "out the door" price to make it easy to compare between dealerships. When I buy a travel trailer, it’ll probably be from Bish’s but I’d definitely want to see out the door price, not a low price and then fees added.
Close to retirement so looking to get a new hybrid Maverick (2025 can tow 4k) for my next vehicle so I have something strong enough to pull a travel trailer that’ll get great gas mileage when not towing.
That’s absolutely 100% the way to go. Shopping the total out the door price is the only way to know what you’re really spending.
Absolutely an all in one price is preferable. As an example- a local chain tire dealership advertises an "out the door" price on tires- no hidden fees. Tire sales are notorious, for example, advertising a $50 tire- only to cost $100 when the bill is totaled. Businesses fail to realize consumers have generally gotten more knowledgeable on product costs, especially on discretionary spending, as non- discretionary $$ have increased in their budgets
We are definitely wanting a quality SUV towable travel trailer!
There are some. Hopefully we will see more.
You may have and I missed it (apologies if so), but you should have mentioned if your value graphs at/around the 23 and 24 minute mark were CPI adjusted. That makes a big deal, especially in recent years. Love your videos. Thanks.
I believe it’s just raw hard dollars so there are some factors there to also consider that may not be clearly represented
I'd like the total bottom line up front. I always dread making a"deal" with the sales rep and then meeting the finance person who tacks on a ton of fees and optional add ons.
I am the same. I want it all laid right out first and foremost.
Hi Josh, I went to Tampa to look at the Brinkley I-265. It’s a very nice camp trailer and I really liked it. On the way to see the Brinkley I ran across an Encore Venu 17QB prototype. I ended up buying the Venu. I like the extreme amount of storage, independent suspension and no slide. It’s about 5200 pound GVWR and 22 feet. This is not a budget trailer. It has aluminum cabinets and doors. It does have a wet bath and a cassette toilet so there are tradeoffs for the small size. I’m looking for an appropriate smaller pickup or an SUV to tow this little trailer. I’ll set aside my Super Duty diesel for the occasional tow of my heavier trailers. This camp trailer will serve me well as I can fit into any state, forest service or national park campsite. I call it my Grab and Go.
Mark
I’m not really well-versed on those. I’ll have to take a peek sometime.
Hi Josh,
I always talk out the door price, because the bottom line is the bottom line. Lots of dealers do not like this approach because they want to play the game to extract maximum money from their customer. The other part of the "game" is the finance kickback. Its something I always ask about so I know how to take advantage by using an early payoff.
I'm the same but it's crazy how many do not
Outstanding presentation, as always, Josh. Of course I would prefer All-In-One. Will anyone prefer otherwise? (But this is Social Media so of COURSE they will!)
And again, thanks to Bish’s for having some corporate character. Where I live it’s a rare thing.
It’s one of the benefit benefits. I think we enjoy as a family owned organization
In the Philippines the price for a new automobile is the price. There is no negotiations, there are sometimes discounts. Oh and the taxes are included so are destination fees. If you don't like the price, you buy a less expensive model. I love it. No surprises, no dealer markup b.s. buy or don't buy.
a lot of places outside the US are like that. The pricing already has EVERYTHING in it
Yes to all in pricing. Yes to short (we) rigs that are still well appointed. Hubs and I are looking for a trailer under 25' with a table, fireplace, dual axel and not a Murphy bed. Not an easy find here in Ontario
Rockwood 2511s is super close to
We bought a used 2020 Eagle HT 29.5 BHOK in March of 2024 very good price and the dealer let it sit on their lot until the end of April. Late winter early spring is a great time to pickup a quality used rv.
I would agree
Hello Josh, I won’t comment on your video dates, others have already done so 😂. Thanks again for those videos and being truthful as always. We RV consumers really appreciate this. Keep up your good work and have a good season beginning.
You just did! 😅🤷♀️
lol yeah - one of my finer moments lol
Outstanding information, Josh! I am really excited about the 2026 new model date change. I am looking to trade in my 2022 Alta for something a little bigger and knowing that the dealers will be extra "motivated" to close a deal warms my heart :)
Hope it goes well for you
Which Jayco trailer is in the background at 11:45 ?
Love those large windows.
Thanks for taking the time to put this, and all other videos together, and also all of the great tips! 👍😁
I think it's this one: th-cam.com/video/dY6AtlquYaw/w-d-xo.html
I agree on smaller and better quality.
I'd like to see a TT with twin beds, good size shower/bath. Sink (1) & microwave small fridge. Kinda like a motel room. I don't need to cook inside.
Thanks for sharing!
Yes more quality in travel trailers. Geo pro has a dual axle this year and this is what I would like to see. More people have SUV and smaller tow vehicles but want to prioritize safety and ease of handling.
I’ll be surprised if we don’t see a couple more of those creep into their lineup
Thanks Nerd! Always appreciate the Industry Update. I think having the base price and then the title + sales tax + + + is the better way to go.
You're welcome! It's always a good idea to show the total.
We went to Novi Friday night and GR on Saturday. The crowds last night were perfect.
The crowd on Saturday at Novi was almost shoulder to shoulder the whole time. Friday was oddly quiet, but Saturday more than made up for it.
Absolutely The price on the price tag is the price you pay. no hidden fees. That's way i bouget from Bish's
That's how we roll. TY
I prefer to see the real price, including all fees, for sure. And I would rather buy a little trailer that is higher quality and going to survive usage. I'll be downsizing this year, so definitely a concern. Thanks for asking, Josh!
Pricing - it's so frustrating when you're researching online. I have two specific trailers in mind, and online pricing ranges from 22K to 29K for the same unit. I don't want to go into a dealer and spend hours haggling and asking questions. Just tell me what the OTD price is, and I'll tell you if we can talk or not.
Trucks - the biggest reason I'm delaying on a trailer is that I don't want to run and maintain a truck for any longer than I have to. When you spend x days towing your RV and 25 times x days not towing your RV, an SUV makes a whole lot more sense.
Small trailers - yes and yes. The units I'm looking at are double Azdel, solar equipped, dual propane, with nice sized fridges and lots of storage. I'm happy to pay more for something that won't rattle to pieces on the way to a boondock spot, and sneaks in a few creature comforts too.
Looking for a good suspension will also be a great way to help the RV, not fall apart
I bought my last 6 cars from Carmax because of the no hidden fees or gimmicks, so I would like to see the rv dealers do the same. I was lucky with my last rv purchase in that the dealer only added in costs for things that I ordered. I would never look at or buy an RV from Camping World because of all the bad publicity on their fees and service. Thanks for the update, and have a great weekend.
Plenty of dealers still have transparent pricing, but as nationwide dealers continue to acquire and consolidate the small stores it seems to be getting worse instead of getting butter
Great stuff as usual Josh! I would loose my mind if Hulkamania was running wild on the campground I was staying at. The 11 year old kid that still lives inside me would freak out!!
hahahaa
There is a real lack of high quality luxury smaller rv's on the market. Thank you Josh for another great video. Come on down to the Houston TX RV show next Wednesday, and I'll buy you a brewsky!
Tempting as it is I am flying to Omaha that day!
We're in Tampa and it was a wildly cold month for us! We went to the show Sunday and basically got rained out but it was still fun! LOL
We also bought our first RV and had a terrible experience with the financial side of it. We bought used to save some money and only realized after the papers were signed that they had hidden the fees I was going to argue out of in the "base" price of the RV so I missed it. Ended up paying $1290 in freight... on a used unit, and $690 in prep fees to then have to clean one of the dirtiest ACs I've seen(and I'm an HVAC tech for a living), and another $700 in doc fees which from what I've gathered is also ridiculous. All this on a unit that was supposed to be $8000 to begin with. Price transparency would be incredible to guarantee legally. We will likely drive all the way to Bish's next time!
Along with not having hidden fees, we also have a 72 hour no questions asked return policy which I think is exceptionally uncommon
Great video as usual. Thanks so much
You bet! I appreciate you watching!
You are right, I am looking for quality and safety features over cheap for our camper.
👍🏻
You asked a couple of questions on price and on small RVs. If I had my way, every car, truck, RV, boat would have a single sticker price it takes to drive off the lot. It would encourage competition because it would make comparison shopping much easier. In a similar thought, my wife and I would love to see more variety of smaller campers that are quality built. We'd be willing to pay more, if the price to value ratio was reasonable. Value has to matter. It won't help the market if the price for a small RV starts to approach the price of a 5th wheel.
I agree with the single Price concept. The first wrinkle is the fact, different states handle taxes differently. But standardizing everything that does not include state fees is a very reasonable thing I think.
Just give me the out the door price including tags and taxes right on the price tag. If the tax or tags is different for an out of state buyer, they can ask for the adjustment.
Taxes between states are where that “one price out the door” is problematic