Back in the 90s a friend and former flight instructor landed his Citabria on a dirt road to visit friends camping at Pyramid lake on tribal land. Tribal police blocked the road about 30' in front of the plane to prevent him from taking off and told him he would need to disassemble the plane to remove it. He agreed but asked if he could get in the plane to remove the radios to prevent theft. He got in the plane locked one brake and started the engine immediately pivoting the plane and took off the other direction.
This tribe is known for extortion. I remember back in 2009 when they scooped up a paraglider pilot, arrested him and stole his gear. They're just criminals with a mandate.
It goes deeper than that. Most of the tribal council is known for bing PDF files, if you know what I’m saying. They have tried to stop over 70 investigations since the 80’s, and even got people out of the country to protect them from prison. There are a lot of missing girls under 12 in the towns around that native land, and their remains are always found on tribal land.
I dont understand why they would be so hostile and extortionist, do they really have nothing better to do than harass random people that happen by on the res? Cant they just be good honest neighbors and live in peace? Just dont understand some people....
In a fair world, the judge would have awarded lawyer's fees and fined the tribe $50k each for the malicious prosecution and seizure of the plane. The FAA should make a NOTAM warning all non-tribal pilots not to land at the airfield or visit the reservation for any reason.
I filed for reimbursement of the couple thousand dollars of attorneys expenses but because the case was dismissed the judge didn't rule on it at the time, and in his summary judgement it wasn’t mentioned. I'm hopeful it's at east a deterrent for them refilling. However - the truth is the protemp judge is still a judge hired by the tribe… so he might also have to play a little nice.
The fact that you got lucky and benefited from honest tribal members doesn’t change the reality that multiple predatory thugs in positions of tribal authority conspired to illegally seize your plane and then colluded to corruptly attempt to stack the deck against you by trying to make sure you went to trial without a lawyer. Again, thanks for reinforcing why no outsider should ever set foot on tribal land or spend a single cent on any tribal commercial operation with Indian Casinos at the top of the list.
I get where you're coming from - and you're right that i got lucky here, and that doesn't change the fundamental facts of the case or the realities of the risks of entering a tribe.
We just canceled our $6k dollar trip there next year we’d been planning. And that was just my wife and I. We’ve informed our group of 4 to do the same. And they spend way more than us! So at least you cost them over ten grand 2025. I’ll also share this on our travel page.
The dude entered the community illegally. People have told him to land on the Area 51 airstrip to see if being American will grant him rights to see the facilities and bunkers.
No, he had permission. It would be trespassing if he entered unlawfully, however, since he believed that he had permission to be there, which he did since he talked with a person who was authorized to give him permission, he wasnt trespassing. As to Area 51. If he got landing clearance to set down, he could do that. I he paid a regular fee to look in the bunkers that Area 51 charged ans did the tribe to camp for 3 days, then he would be good there also.
@limulus61 0 seconds ago That sounds like a bad idea. They could booby trap the runway with potholes or something worse like a cable and claim that the runway is closed.
@@limulus61fuck they gonna do? im touch n going the shit out their area and if they try to send a bullshit ass “tribal heli” on me they can deal with the fuel costs as we BOTH fly into an actual COUNTRY with an actual government.
As a pilot who is based in AZ - I really want to thank you for sharing your account of what happened. You always hear "folk lore" or "anecdotes" of things like this being a problem, but to see your two videos is a real eye opener. Who knows, maybe your videos will help keep that one council member in check and they won't re-file. At any rate, it's always a good rule to stick to public use airports on this side of the line, if you know what I mean.
In 2004, my wife and I were driving through NM and had stopped for gas that was tribal owned (won't say which reservation). After we had topped off and were leaving a dog had run out and I accidentally hit this dog (believe me I was devastated). Turns out the dog belonged to one of the tribal elders and you can imagine what happened next. I was detained (overnight), and my truck impounded. I ended up paying $200 dollars for the fine, $250 for the dog and $300 for the impound fee. Now remember this is 2004 and they allowed me to use my credit card (very lucky) After we had left that piss hole, I was able to call in a hold on those transactions, cancel the card (report stolen etc etc). One hour later they called me (on my flip phone lol) and told me i needed to return (this time with cash). I told them sure, I'm on my way. Of course, I never did and believe me they did their best to threaten me with all sorts of action. They even called my local area police and tried lying about what took place. These people are corrupt beyond belief. I avoid those places and those people. I know it sounds bad but they are bat shit crazy.
My guy, you must stop going back. You're going to end up arrested, or worse. Let it go to federal court where subpoenas aren't optional. Have you filed a complaint with the FAA?
I suspect they’re not used to people standing their ground facing overwhelming BS in which they have total discretion. Kind of like diplomatic immunity, just on the other foot. Glad it worked out. Lesson learned.
First step should have been to report the plane as stolen to the FAA. Second step should have been to call the FBI. Tribes are subject to Federal Aviation Regulations. They can't just go stealing a plane and they can be charged criminally for it in Federal court. OP acted entirely in good faith so any minor offenses he may have committed are null and void.
Dude, don’t apologize for the absolute nonsense they put you through. They should never treat anyone like that and deserve 150% of the criticism for their scumbag laws and scumbag scams. It’s not racist, it’s objective reasoning and can’t be individually waived because they have one or two very good people who do the right thing… it’s the bad apples that assigns the risk and danger to the larger group. The world came to this conclusion and you didn’t tell anyone to think that way. The FAA should mark that airspace restricted and label it dangerous to pilots and passengers.
Weird that the cop felt so comfortable lying though. Also weird that the defense didn't get body cams. That should have been handed over as part of discovery. But then again, all the cops refused to show up. Probably because if they were questioned under oath, they would get screwed.
@@thengine7Lying on the stand is SOP for all police in the US. They even have a name for it: Testilying. It is part of their (unofficial, of course) training. If you’re ever a juror, you have to keep this in mind.
Here is how tribal courts work: "We win, you loose. This is our court, our judge, our rules, and we change the rules when ever we want." Don't EVER do business or work on tribal land, and don't ask how I know that.
Yup 100% nailed it. I won a case where a business leased property on tribal land. Insurance settled. But it’s the Wild West on tribal land. The sooner you know that the better.
Amen I did work on tribal land here in Michigan never again I give the tribal price in writing after i finish the job they said that would owning pay 50% and local courts could not help me and this is one the reason I hear people cut tribal nets in the Great Lakes
@@josephfrench9177 you just have to know how to do business with them. It’s very simple. Money up front and double the estimate and never quote. They got money. They’re just bored and like to mess with anyone they can. The drinking and drugs gets boring too. We deal with southwest tribes.
I am retired from the FAA, and spent over 20 years in flight services, before they were contracted out to Lockheed Martin. You need to contact the United States NOTAMs Office (USNOF). It is "...located in Warrenton, Virginia at the Air Traffic Control System Command Center. The USNOF operates 24/7 and is charged with quality control and dissemination of NOTAMs within the National Airspace System (NAS)." Before they consolidated the USNOF, as part of the contracting out process, the standard procedure outside of Alaska was each state had 1-3 AFSS. Each one kept the legal records on the issuance of NOTAMs in their area, and they also had list of who can issue them, supplied by the airport operator. Now I was located in a state with no reservations. So I have never dealt with an airport on a reservation as being any different than any other private, restricted airport. Private airports had much less oversight than the smaller public strips. BUT even private airstrips had to keep the status up to date. You need to check the airport facility directory for that state, checking that airport is listed in it. Also the secrional charts which should indicate a private, restricted airport. Those FAA Publications have valid dates, so just make sure your accessing the proper ones and then see what they show. The FAA takes closing an airport deadly serious, because if there's an accident their people can become liable if they did not handle airport information that was reported to them properly. There should be a log, I assume it is fully computerized now which it wasn't when we were contracted out. The person who took the information has to indicate who gave it to them, the date and the time. They have to match that name to the list the airport operator supply them of people authorized two issue them. So if the airport was closed and then opened again all that information should be there. If it is not, then it's pretty cut and dried. Now we didn't get that involved with the private strips, except when pilots indicated there were big x's on the end, yet the airport facility directory didn't indicate it was closed. This required us telling them that there is no way we can give them any indication whether they can land at the airport or not, we are going to try to contact the operator and find out what the status is. We then immediately called the local FAA airport field office, and informed them that a private pilot, who's information we had to give them, had reported the airport as having a large X's at the runway ends, which is supposed to indicate it's closed. It all got handled, and the airport was not only closed but I can't remember how many publication cycles it took, but it finally stopped even being listed. For a temporary closure there's a very distinct paper trail, and while I've never had to deal with it, reopening an airport that has been "permanently closed" is going to be barely any different than just opening a new airport. If you look at the list I have appended at the end, all of those offices in the FAA will have to be involved, and it's a tremendous amount of work. Once you permanently close an airport, the FAA treats it as having cease to exist. So "reopening" the airport is really treated more like just opening a new private airport. Here's an added guide to the current FAA offices that deal with airports. It's Google AI, but I retired a decade ago so I'm hoping it's more up to date than I am. Nothing jumps out at me as incorrect. "The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has multiple divisions that regulate airports, including: Airports Safety and Operations Division: Responsible for airport safety and certification, including aircraft rescue and firefighting, emergency management, and damage control Office of Airports Safety and Standards: Responsible for airport design, construction, maintenance, operations, safety, and certification Airports Compliance Division: Responsible for airport compliance Regional Airports Division and District Offices (ADOs): Responsible for regional airports The FAA also has divisions for engineering, design, construction, and data and airspace. "
If he had just reported the plane stolen in the first place, he would have had it back faster. Tribes are subject to Federal Aviation Regulations and the FAA won't issue a title, registration or airworthiness certificate on a plane that has been reported stolen. It is a Federal offence and getting the FBI involved would have been the correct course of action. OP acted in good faith and, as such, they had no right to seize it. These people were way in over their heads when they decided to try and seize an airplane and they should stick to stealing cars and guns. There are at least a couple of people in this scenario who are lucky they didn't end up in prison.
As a native myself, both trucks would've somehow ended up on their roofs and the plane would have miraculously been gone. We don't play these games. They wanted the plane.
I'm sure this could have gone a different way, if the youtube algorithm hadn't pushed this to the front of peoples feed in the first place. They got called out in an massive public fashion, and now "look" like the bad guys. Glad you were able to get things cleared up, definitely makes me want to rethink visiting tribal lands again, and I was just there a few weeks ago Visiting Page AZ. Not sure what town it was, but had a few tribal members catcalling my 13 year old daughter, But I'm smart enough to know I just need to move on down the road, and not escalate into a fight. Like who in the hell catcalls a 13 year old girl.
People need to stop camping at the reservation. Imagine all the RVs and cars they also stole. Everyone headed out there needs to be warned on social media. Seriously how can anyone with an RV especially a high priced one risk camping at an Indian reservation campsite?
If you're talking about tribes in the Southwest, I treat it them like crossing into the first ~100 miles of Mexico: Get through the area, do not stop... Corruption is rampant, everyone official blames someone else for anything they are charging you with, and they tend to push charges to the limit of the law and beyond... Lesson to pilots: DO NOT FLY INTO AIRPORTS ON REZ!!!!
She wanted to keep the plane so she could have her own plane. I guarantee that after she was no longer the chairwoman, the plane ownership would be in her name only.
One problem I hear about a lot with Tribal Councils is corrupt leadership. I have no doubt this was nothing but a money grab. It cost the tribe little to make is a hard fight for the rightful owner so the tribe had little to lose vs the gain of a many tens of thousands of dollars worth of airplane to seize. Its like a cop doing a civil asset forfeiture, low risk, high reward, and this makes policing for profit possible (and illustrates why it should be outlawed due to easy abuse).
Patricia, beautiful smile, and your spirit shines, you make your tribe look so good. Integrity kindness civility to our fellow humanity. Your everything that is a positive to justice.
Exactly! She ( your advocate and others telling the truth) prove that there is good everywhere and that you can't define a place by the acts of a few. Her actions SHOULD cool the jets of anyone condemning the entire reservation. However, your video message is clear: plan ahead, get informed and get things in writing!
@@abdelgonzalez8430 There ARE Darwin Award Front Runners in every crowd sadly - but hey thank goodness there are also AMAZING HUMAN BEINGS that make up for them & keep us on track..
Had my Jeep “confiscated” on the Flathead Reservation. That was even though I paid the $100 annual fee to drive on it. To this day, I see the guy who confiscated it, driving it. Was told by an FBI Agent, “You Will NEVER Find An FBI Agent Driving On A Reservation Unless It’s For Official Business”
No matter the result of the case: Do not return to that land. Tell the FAA that the Airport is "unwelcoming" for non-local planes. You WILL be retaliated against by the officials. It is not worth risking your well-being.
Fact, you have an airplane. Fact, the tribe (A couple of officials anyways) sees that as having wealth and they want you to be relieved of some of it no matter who get's it. You're right, it is that simple.
And in a back door way they got what they wanted. I’m sure he had to pay his tribal attorney, court fees, parking, other expenses that the tribe gets to collect regardless for verdict. You know why they force you to use an “approved rep” it’s not because they are “really really really good” it’s because it’s the enemy they know or they are on the pay roll. Got luck that lady stood up for you bet she never gets a case their again. The comment your dad overheard after tells you exactly what the intentions were and that was to shake you down....which they did.
@@Eric-oi5yj He said that he had talked to 2 different people and got permission. If he didn't have permission I get the Tribe being bent. I didn't see where he didn't get permission in the last video. If I'm wrong, do I have to go to Tribal Court? I'll actually be on a Res. next week. Different tribe, boat, no plane. Peace.
@@Eric-oi5yj Hey Eric, you obviously enjoy supporting extortion, despicable. He HAD permission. His fault was not getting it in writing, shame on him for trusting the word of another human being. It was extortion and despicable and the fact you are supporting it makes you just as bad. Or are you one of the extortionists? Maybe so
@@Eric-oi5yj Yeah, like I said, his mistake was accepting the verbal word of someone, of course in your life you never make that mistake, pitiful. He learned painful lesson about dealing with the tribal managers, you must be a member.
This is a lost opportunity for that Arizona Native American Tribe, they could setup an FBO charge people a daily tiedown fee and sell fuel but they blew it. Some people are just too STUPED to see an OPPORTUNITY when it falls in their LAP!!!
That would require them to not have a r***al hatred. It seems to me this is about sticking it to people and they would rather pull pennies on the dollar harming those they direct that hatred towards instead of making money.
I am a retired state police officer with a large department on the west coast. After I retired I applied for several job openings as an Investigator for District Attorneys' Offices in the region. I was hired by a neighboring county as a Criminal Investigator with the District Attorney's office. There were two openings, one of the jobs was as a Casino Crimes Investigator as there are 4 different Indian Casinos in the county. The other job was as an Investigator for serious DUI cases, such as felony manslaughter, severe injuries, repeat offenders, etc. I chose to investigate DUI cases, having to deal with the trauma of the victims and their families. I know how corrupt most of the gaming casinos are and the in-fighting between Tribal Councel members. The temptations of such huge amounts of money is difficult for some people to resist, and also personal grudges between Tribal members is common.
@@Shouldwegooutside why do you not address all the people being bigots in the comments saying that stuff. That's why our country is the way it is. Be the better person.
@@ruger8412 What is bigoted about cardo718's commnet? It is obvously a fact the indians scam just about anyone setting foot on tribal land, as evident of all the commenters personal stories. Just because it dosen't fit your narrative dosen't mean it isn't right.
Escalating the case to a "real" court seems like the better idea tbh, tribes seem to act more like the mafia taking advantage of their special rights. But you got your plane out, don't go back to the scammer if you already manage to leave. Especially if you already knew that the tribe court won't work out for you I don't get the point of returning into the lions cage. BUT I have to thank you for all this information, as a German I never thought that the American people would allow minorities to break almost every law of their institution. I will definitely avoid tribe sections of the US at all cost from now on.
Im laughing at your comment..Native nations and their territory are not part of the US laws...and you say mafia? very racist and biased and as German you have no idea of how the colonists killed murdered executed genocide of the Natives here in the US..and then accuse natives of being a minority? Thats like calling all Germans Hitlers Nazi executioners.....and I have German roots and Native American both..please read history instead of commenting on Native Americans as some kind of minorities...when my relatives were executed in the the largest execution in US history by Lincoln and they were innocent...and I did live and work in Germany for a few years always respect the culture and understand
It's really guilt and trying to make up for the past, but instead letting some of the tribal members run a racket. I don't think they should be allowed to lure unsuspecting non-tribal members on and then unfairly exert dominance though. It is a shame, because there are many great tribal members, but there are also a handful that run amok.
Commented on your last video about them taking your plane, about us stealing back my friends helicopter from tribe police. We knew if we didn't get it back as soon as we did we'd probably never see it again. I'm glad you came out of this on the up side!
@@danielhamilton698 They really were once a great and noble people, but now it seems that almost anything that winds up on reservation land is never seen again! Glad you got your stuff back!
My wife is half Navajo. Corruption, self enrichment and civil rights violations are very common. For example, when the tribe switched from printed paper to plastic for id cards they charged a fee for the cards. No problem there seems normal. It was stated that the $25 fee was only to cover the cost of producing the cards. At the time I was involved in making security badges our cost was around $1.80 per card. We had nowhere near the volume discount the tribe would have gotten. Labor costs would be minimal as they already had people making the paper cards. There was never a public accounting as to the remainder of the fee money. There are countless other examples of bribes, kickbacks, nepotism, cronyism and plain old embezzlement. No one ever gets in trouble. The average Dine citizen just remains stuck in poverty. Many without running water or electricity service. Getting Internet connected is probably easier now with starlink if you can afford it.
@@ruger8412 You just make stuff up, don’t you. Thieving from those outside the tribe is a huge part of North American Indian culture. Where do you think the stereotypes came from?
If they retaliate because you made a video, that will prove that they are in wrong. Punishing people for telling the truth is what power-hungry dictators do. Criminalizing non-criminal activity doesn't make sense, and should warrant an investigation. Also, fish and game officers? You weren't hunting or fishing, you were out of their lane. Keep flying, keep telling your story.
I agree.. If they retaliate after this... It only further demonstrates their stance. I had the same quesitons - they searched my plane up and down for any indication that I was on the land for hunting and couldn't find any signs - why they were the ones doing this after the police had already communicated with me and we'd come to a resolution is stills something I don't understand. They are two separate law enforcement agencies though.. I appreciate the support.
@@Starfish2145might bold assuming they won't double-down on their prettiness. I wouldn't put it past them to try to save face after he's called out their shenanigans on a major media platform.
Glad you got your plane back! Just found your channel and subbed! It honestly sounds like a setup. There’s no markings stating that the runway is closed even from the air. That’s a huge red flag. The confusing phone numbers, and being bounced back and forth. That’s pretty Susp man! I feel like had they of gotten your plane, they would have planted something in it. When I was 8, I bought some candy on the reservation. This lady was following me around. I didn’t think much of it because I was young, but my friends mom called her out. The lady accused me of stealing. After she found my receipt, she just said “ok” and walked off. Never got an apology. The most painful part was, the clerk looked right at me and didn’t say anything in my defense. I’m 31 years old, and refuse to step foot on any reservation because of that.
Someone didn't watch the video, it was two, TWO bad actors. Yes one bad apple ruins the crate, this is true for a system but doesn't mean you get to be a dck
Went hunting with a member of a Southwestrn tribes LEO several times, and good lord the stories he's told me leave me in major doubt of even stepping foot on the res. He's thankfully (his words, not mine) left the res LEO position for one in a major city, and has such a better time there not looking over his shoulder at both suspects and especially his fellow LEO coworkers.
Btw, even IF the runway was "closed", you still had permission from the appropriate authority to make a landing at the location. Remember, a "closed" airport landing is just an off airport landing. If I own a strip, close the strip, mark the strip with yellow Xs, notify the FAA that the strip is closed, call flight service and file a NOTAM that the runway is closed, I can still land there and give permission to anyone else I want to be able to land there. Just like the purple "no hunting" stripes on the trees around a piece of property. That means "no hunting" to hunters who don't have permission, it has no effect for people who were given explicit permission.
The easiest way to lose tourism 😖💰 Stay away from those crazy places/ people , nice places but corrupt laws 🐀 It is way better to fly the Baja , very friendly people , low prices and the best food and margaritas 🧉🥂🍻🍺🧋🥃 Blue skies and happy landings everyone ✈️🤗
The FAA needs to be involved in this. They need to be formally notified and actions/steps need to be done so no other pilot(s) have such experience..............ever.
I will never go back on tribal land. My friend and were hiking on a marked public use hiking trail near canyon de chelly az. A drunk man approached us with a large knife in his hands and started yelling at us and wanted $500! He was so drunk he could barely walk. We will never go on any tribal land again.
I hope this story gets wider circulation. Pilots need to know about this kind of hazard. Most out of the way communities with airports go the extra mile to make pilots feel welcome. It brings income into the community.
Here in Alaska it's pretty bad etiquette to just go landing at random airstrips. You may loose more than your plane... The ones on public land are ok. Reservations aren't public land.
I'm an enrolled member of a tribe in Oregon. You got lucky that the tribal court judge recused herself. She did the right thing, but most tribal judges are completely in the tank for the tribal council that hires them. There are many good tribal employees and some tribes are better than others, but the overall operations, to varying degrees, are bad. Most tribal businesses couldn't survive if they weren't protected and heavily subsidized by the federal government. Sadly, tribal council members are often the worst offenders. They get repeatedly re-elected by doling out favors and tribal money to their political supporters and their own families. They have almost no accountability and no oversight. I wish it were different, but that's how it is.
@@Shouldwegooutside Tribal people are generally the biggest victims of bad tribal government. They live in a vicious cycle of abuse by corrupt tribal officials because there's little if any accountability and often no transparency from tribal governments.
I'm glad they came through for you, but mostly I'm glad that your story is here on TH-cam. It's always good for the public to have a glimpse of the inner workings of tribal government and malicious bureaucracy.
The problem with the tribes is they want the same standard of living without having to make the sacrifices that we all have to make,others aren't going to keep paying the bills for them
@fredpinczuk7352 So did every other country that was some time in the past invaded could do pranks like these... Only see the most corrupt people do these tings like africa or russia.
Yup. Thanks to corruption by tribal leaders, Indian reservations lose millions of dollars from tourists and casinos. Thousands of years from now the reservations just like Haiti will still look the same as it does today.
You need to find out if that airport receives ANY Federal funds or money from the General Aviation Trust Fund. If they do, they are required to allow public use of the airport. The fact that they have navigational aids indicates that they get Federal Funding. If you find out that they do receive Federal Funds, let it go to Federal Court, you will win.
This sounds like some organized crime shake down in a third world hell hole. Oh...what am I saying...it IS an organized criminal shake down in a third world hell hole.
What? You're a bigot. Did you not take history growing up? Or ever for that matter? Move on,,, go vote for your draft waiver dodging millionaire bigot.
The US government should treat this just like they would treat an American caught up in the judicial system of another country. How about making the reservation of limits for a couple of years. Let's see how the tribe can survive.
Thank you for not being another openly racist person. So many people think we're all the same, ignoring the fact that our tribes have completely different cultures, histories, and ancestors. Even where we came from could be different. Not all Native people crossed the land bridge there's proof of human presence in the Americas from long before it existed. Our ancestors likely came from different places, and we deserve to be seen and respected for our unique identities. But to be honest, the tribal government he was talking about is a piece of shit and deserves the hate.
@@rudyrivera7749 unfortunately in another country americans will not get special treatment take mexico for an example they can make up charges on you and keep you indefinitely unless you pay off their bribes russia another example look at that basket ball player she has been playing basket ball there for a while and Russia does give ya pamphlets pertaining what is legal and not legal to bring into their country underline there country not ours their rules not we are Americans they do not care if we break their laws we go to their prisons and courts and Russia is notorious for a kangaroo court system aswell as Mexico where there is no fair courts
@@rudyrivera7749 by the way the reservations will out last us greengos think about it those reservations lasted for hundreds of years without our help lol
Sad part is they could make a thriving business to offer permits for travel companies to use the airport and transportation to the falls. Similar how other tribes charge to see horse shoe bend.
I worked for a company that did work with tribes in New Mexico, new construction stuff I was talking to the guy installing the water softener system at a school Asked how much a system cost, he told me that they would lease them out to anyone else but tribes. He said they would stop paying on the lease and when they wanted come and get their equipment, but the tribes would say they are a sovereign and that it was their equipment now Happened a couple times and was sold to tribes instead of leased.
lucky, one of my friends got pulled over on tribal land, no point of entry or anything. just because he had hunting stickers they searched his truck. they found his hunting rifle and his shotgun. they ceased his truck, trailer and guns, never was able to get a court date. was just left on the side of the road just outside of the tribal land. he had to use 911 service to get help out of in the middle of nowhere
A long time ago I took a concealed weapons permit class and learned the restrictions of where weapons can be brought: reservations are a big NO. It's like bringing a firearm into another country. You are under completely different laws.
A friend of my Dad and fellow pilot once told him that shortly after he mustered out of the Navy from WWII he bought a light plane and took his new bride on a cross-country flight of America. Somewhere over the southwest desert they had to make an emergency landing on one of the Indian Reservations. Some natives spotted them and came by to investigate. Craig chatted with them, then told his wife to stay with the plane while he and a couple of braves went for help. She adamantly refused, fearing she might be scalped, so she joined him on the back of a donkey instead. After 40 years, Craig still laughed whenever he described his bride's Hollywood image of Native American Indians. After hearing your story I'd say there's more than one way to get scalped. 😉
As a non tribal member, I've had nothing but good experiences dealings with five of the six tribal nations in my area. Always fair, reasonable and accommodating to neighbors, visitors and businesses in the community. The sixth tribe is run by their largest family, gets along with nobody, running even tribal members who object or challenge them off by disqualifying their tribal heritage. .I wouldn't trust them or set foot on their property.
Agreed that most tribes are decent, EBCI in Western NC have always been good to me. Been there many times at the casino or visiting other areas of the Res. Never felt like I was in a foreign country, rather it felt like I was in a cultural area of the state and we all respected that. Its cool to see many of the road signs in their native language along with english. Never heard of folks getting harassed by tribal police there. Just dont do stupid shit and you'll be fine, just like anywhere else. I have never questioned going onto the Res, nor do I know anyone that has, for us North Carolinians its a welcoming area with no hostility. I have always had a good impression of Native Americans because of the EBCI, its a shame some tribes abuse their authority.
Got me thinking, if I ever fly my Mooney over Arizona on my way from Texas to California, I will definitely need to map out land and airports to avoid at all costs. Not an issue I considered before seeing this. Thank you.
@@Shouldwegooutside I'll need to cross reference my aviation planning maps with tribal land maps on the Internet...but yes, it would be nice to see it in RED in Foreflight like TFRs!
@@Shouldwegooutside @alcarmad I really like this idea. You don't need Foreflight company to develop custom KML overlay files, and they wouldn't do it anyway for PR purposes... but I wonder who we could get this idea in front of who has a database of tribal lands and the know how to convert that data into KML format. They could then make it publicly available on github and update it as needed.
@@alcarmad Foreflight supports user layers; the Census website has KML files that include reservation boundaries (you'll have to filter out other off reservation areas used for census purposes).
Glad to hear it worked out. It's quite disappointing to hear that the chairwoman allegedly said what she said. If she indeed said that, she sounds like a horrible representative of her tribe and I'd be embarrassed if she were part of my government. Seems that the witnesses called in your case have integrity (told the truth) and that the tribal judge fairly and honestly heard your case. Rest easy!
you land on tribal nation you are subject to their jurisdiction and rules even driving this guy was an idiot, and then looking for commodification denial is not a river in egypt...
I was disappointed as well. When i met her that day I was glad she was there because I was under the impression she was on my side. She was the one who signed the form letting me pick up the plane. Unfortunately it looks like I was wrong.
@@lutomson3496 @lutomson3496 perhaps you should review his account of the facts in his video before concluding he's an "idiot". Your remark makes me believe you're perhaps very angry and resentful that justice was served. The chairwoman to tribal council is probably just as angry as you are about the fact that the judge served a fair hearing.
I'm surprised how many TH-cam pilot experts there are in the comments telling me how I ignored the rules... I'm starting to think maybe they aren't real pilots and maybe they don't know anything about the rules they are telling me I ignored.
Sounds like she was upset about the first TH-cam video "This is what we get for begin nice" . I suspect internal dispute these officers were upset that a deal was made without they being involved.
The problem has never been the everyday native americans living on the reservation, they're often being screwed over by their corrupt leaders as much as you were, but they have to live with it day in day out (until they've had enough and leave, as many do). So many on these reservations live in abject poverty on land they're not allowed to own. That's partly why many are so eager to help (beyond just being nice people) because they know how much pain it causes them and their neighbours. The problem is nearly always with the unaccountable and greedy tribal leaders at the top.
I know a handful of missionaries and a girl who's part native American and lived on a reservation. They all say that the members are abused by the consuls. Also the federal government. Its never ending and very sad.
@@fraudieYT my vehicle broke down on Route 66, that runs through their reservation and I pulled 25 feet off 66, onto a small berm that technically was "theirs" and they hassled me and threatened to get my car gone ASAP or they could impound it. Luckily I live nearby, just outside their reservation border and got it moved quick. They suck, and they talk to shit on everyone lol
I don't have any "Indian" stories that reach this level but it does bring one to mind. Several years ago(when I was in my early 50's) I decided to ride a bicycle from the Pacific to the Atlantic. One day, while on some reservation or another, a Trible police officer stopped me. One of the questions he asked was... "Do your parents know where you are?" HUH???
@@Shouldwegooutside if you're laughing at this you don't understand why he was asking. He wanted to know if there was anyone who could report him missing.
A German here. Thought to travel as a Tourist inside those Areas of Arizona. Now I know, I better spend my Money somewhere else instead of traveling the US. A simply Nope to Corruption.
Officer Woods deserves high praises for his act of reaching out to Mr Cowsier of the tribe, and confirming that verbal permission had been granted. To have a sworn testimony from Officer Woods is GOLD. Tribe can't go against this.
I'm glad your doing these video's letting people know what actually can happen in a tribal area. I have lived all over the world and stepping off the plane in a foreign land always makes me very uncomfortable. Glad I live in the US and now know to avoid these spots in the US.
The Hualapai tribe in northern Arizona moved quickly to open a casino at its Grand Canyon West tourist site. Tribal leaders figured that slot machines would provide new revenue for the tribe's 1,200 members, many of whom have lived in poverty for years. But they forgot that most of the 100,000 visitors to Grand Canyon West each year come directly from Las Vegas. It closed within a year and they were one million dollars in debt.
I just e-mailed the tribal council as an enrolled Tribal member of another tribe to see what their reply is for landing permission. Also included my Air Force records and FAA licenses and American Association of Airport Executives Certified Member certification. Will post back.
if tribes want to practice tribal law over tribal land, then maybe they should discard all the non-tribal benefits they use, for example, clothing, motorized transportation, modern weapons. if they want to express tribal law, maybe they should revert back to pre-european times and live according to tribal law.
Enjoyed you sharing your story. Also good of you to point out that not all tribal members are jerks but a few bad apples at the top can spoil impressions for everyone else.
This is why I don't spend any money when traveling through tribal land for any reason, this means I don't support local casinos, and if I can I pass right through without getting even gasoline. I live in an area where I have to go through res land to get anywhere west and north. I prefer not to even stop at all, sometimes I dont have a choice if i need gas though. Not all natives are bad people, however, I have never been anywhere more racist towards non-natives in my life.
I been reading all the negative comments here and I'm Mexican who happened to have 2 boys with a native from this reservation. The only assholes are the cops, natives are just like any other group, you'll have some that are assholes trying to take advantage of non-natives and you got the ones that are down to earth and will look out for you. It sucks you had a bad experience and that was due to the ones in charge. I've been separated from my kids Mom for ten years so I'm not speaking on their behalf just cuz I can, I'm simply stating things the way I see them and based on personal experience with natives from this reservation. I'm glad you got your place back.
I'm a retired cop. This case reminds me of a small town I once knew of which was sandwiched between two larger jurisdictions. Both towns on either side had posted 55mph speed limits but the speed limit in that one tiny stretch of road through their town was 35mph. They would set up a speed trap on the highway where the speed limit suddenly dropped from 55mph to 35mph and cite persons for speeding unless they stood on their brakes to obtain that 35mph speed in about 10 yards. That section of road was perfectly straight and well lit and was not through the center of town. It was a money-making tool for that municipality. It sounds like that's what that airport is. Why else leave it so that it appears to be open when they assert that it's closed. It's perfect, if they can't squeeze huge fines out of you they have the plane which they can sell at a huge profit, which works great as a coercive tool. What a scam!
The State of Oregon had to make it illegal to fund a city's budget, with more than a certain percentage, from traffic fines. This was the only way they could shut this type of corruption down.
Just like everywhere else in the world, it boils down to personal integrity and accountability, to all people in an all branches of government worldwide
Super glad you got charges dismissed and got your plane back. This is the tribal version of civil asset forfeiture without any criminal act! It happens a lot more than people think.
Once you're on a reservation you are no longer under the same rules as a American unless you're part of said tribe.. my sister in law lives in new Mexico she sees balloons confiscated all the time during balloon fest even if its a emergency landing on a res, i was a repo agent in Washington years ago had plenty of repo orders for cars on different reservations i always had to be extremely careful trying to take a Banks property back off a res , they can make your life very difficult/dangerous situations can arise. I usually called the tribal police ahead before entering what i found is the tribal police usually gave rhe person a heads up that someone eas going to take the vehicle and hide it somewhere before i got there! It was harder than getting a car off a naval base! Usually i had to trick the owner into leaving the res and then take the vehicle.
Corruption in that tribe is at the highest level. They don’t get a pass just because they are Native. Trying to steal your plane using their authority is shameful.
I watched both videos. what are used to be able to fly into the Ute reservation in southwestern Colorado pre 1999 pay a 25$ per day trespass fee for the plane which included tiedown and basically around the clock security. After 2000 they started getting money off of all and gas and it changed them, they started getting money hungry, they started wanting $200 a day and you had to park on the grass, also we have 3500 acres of land that join them and if someone wanted an animal and it ran on the reservation you used to be able to just call them, not anymore you have to pay $250 and a game warden will meet you out there and you have to pay an additional recovery fee and that’s if you can drag it back to your property, if you have to drive under the property to retrieve it the last I heard three years ago it was about $700. They just basically turned into money hustlers, sad.
Funny coincidence, shortly after I watched the first video on this ordeal, I talked with a friend who mentioned that another friend of his wanted to go to the falls as a bucket list kind of trip. I had to tell him that there's no way I would put myself in jeopardy of experiencing anything like what you went through. I will go out of my way to avoid crossing any Indian land where these kinds of ordeals are too common. Not to make any negative generalizations about a specific group, I just don't want to be a candidate for this kind of hassle. Glad it appears you got a judge who seems to have been reasonable! Hope the various indian tribes can make changes to increase transparency, honesty etc... Now we need to get the same accomplished nationally by eliminating civil asset forfeiture (without a trial/conviction) and eliminate potential conflicts of interest in these cases which is all too common, it appears.
I’m glad you got it settled. But after watching your first video and now the second on how you were treated just changed our family’s vacation to the Grand Canyon in November. We were planning on staying at that resort to ride the horses and stay on the river but now we’re going to take the kids and our money somewhere else.
WOW!! My son and I and some friends and family were planning on hiking down to Havasupai falls next summer. I think after this and the many other bad experiences with tribal extortion we will find somewhere else to go. 😯
I had heard of some of those areas on tribal lands down there and how cool they were but I had always had an instinct to stay away from tribes.....sounds like I was right. I won't ever set foot on any of those tourist attractions
Back in the 90s a friend and former flight instructor landed his Citabria on a dirt road to visit friends camping at Pyramid lake on tribal land. Tribal police blocked the road about 30' in front of the plane to prevent him from taking off and told him he would need to disassemble the plane to remove it. He agreed but asked if he could get in the plane to remove the radios to prevent theft.
He got in the plane locked one brake and started the engine immediately pivoting the plane and took off the other direction.
NOPED right on outta there. lol
@pureevoix Apparently they didn't know taildraggers can unlock their tailwheel and pivot around one wheel. 😅😂
@@pureevoixThey tried the FAA and county but were told he didn't violate any of their laws and there was nothing they could do 😂
That is awesome! Lol, what a sucker that officer was to let em back in the plane😂
SMART
This tribe is known for extortion. I remember back in 2009 when they scooped up a paraglider pilot, arrested him and stole his gear. They're just criminals with a mandate.
Every County in the USA.
Like that.
A paramotor youtuber warned about this when he flew over Shiprock whereby a paramotor had an engine out and they kept his paramotor.
Fire water doesn't buy itself right?
It goes deeper than that. Most of the tribal council is known for bing PDF files, if you know what I’m saying. They have tried to stop over 70 investigations since the 80’s, and even got people out of the country to protect them from prison. There are a lot of missing girls under 12 in the towns around that native land, and their remains are always found on tribal land.
I dont understand why they would be so hostile and extortionist, do they really have nothing better to do than harass random people that happen by on the res? Cant they just be good honest neighbors and live in peace? Just dont understand some people....
This isn’t legal advice, but I would rather be in federal court 10 times than in kangaroo court once.
Just ask Trump.. FEDs have kangaroos too!
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 Trump is the Kangaroo in those courts. Someday that loser will be in Jail then who will you cultists worship?
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 trump did it. youre just a traitor.
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 wrong and hes a felon get rocked
came to say exactly this.
In a fair world, the judge would have awarded lawyer's fees and fined the tribe $50k each for the malicious prosecution and seizure of the plane. The FAA should make a NOTAM warning all non-tribal pilots not to land at the airfield or visit the reservation for any reason.
I filed for reimbursement of the couple thousand dollars of attorneys expenses but because the case was dismissed the judge didn't rule on it at the time, and in his summary judgement it wasn’t mentioned.
I'm hopeful it's at east a deterrent for them refilling.
However - the truth is the protemp judge is still a judge hired by the tribe… so he might also have to play a little nice.
@@Shouldwegooutside leave a comment on ForeFlight. What’s the identifier?
@@Shouldwegooutside I'm sorry you had to go through this BS.
@@Shouldwegooutside how does the tribe gets to hire its own judge... lol what a joke.
He can sue in federal court for costs
The tribal council treats the rest of the native population the same way.
I've heard the same thing from members of different tribals from the southwest to Montana.
crap floats to the top in every community of people
If true it's sad
@@skurdibbles7913
@@teatone1170 Seems to be a western US problem. Indian tribes in the south central and east US don't have these problems.
The fact that you got lucky and benefited from honest tribal members doesn’t change the reality that multiple predatory thugs in positions of tribal authority conspired to illegally seize your plane and then colluded to corruptly attempt to stack the deck against you by trying to make sure you went to trial without a lawyer. Again, thanks for reinforcing why no outsider should ever set foot on tribal land or spend a single cent on any tribal commercial operation with Indian Casinos at the top of the list.
I get where you're coming from - and you're right that i got lucky here, and that doesn't change the fundamental facts of the case or the realities of the risks of entering a tribe.
@@Shouldwegooutside You say it all with its a RISK going on the "Rez"!!
This isn't about tribal land, this happens with U.S. cops too. Police are corrupt, full stop.
Always get permission in writting. Have an email trail.
don't know about other tribes, but the one in grand kanyon are azwhipes
I wouldn't step foot on Indian territory. Period. Crooked, crooked, crooked.
Yup avoid driving through an Indian reservation. You get treated better by corrupt cops in Mexico.
@@jjman533tribes are more corrupt than every politician in the us
You're standing in native American land as you write this comment technically.
@@ruger8412 not really, they lost it fair and square. Not my fault they are push overs.
@@ruger8412 Horseshit. I'm standing in MEXICAN territory that we took from them fair and square. If Mexico wants it back, let them come and take it.
The FAA should force them to destroy that airstrip.
No, just transfer ownership to someone who can operate it under fair conditions.
Faa has no jurisdiction on tribal lands sorry
@@tylerbuckley4661… fine, maybe enforce no crossover. No planes from that airstrip allowed in US airspace.
@@tylerbuckley4661lmao you’re not really that naive are you?
@@nandoman4769 no I just know about native lands from working on them in the oil fields and know what losing equipment that cost more than his plane
We just canceled our $6k dollar trip there next year we’d been planning. And that was just my wife and I. We’ve informed our group of 4 to do the same. And they spend way more than us! So at least you cost them over ten grand 2025.
I’ll also share this on our travel page.
The dude entered the community illegally. People have told him to land on the Area 51 airstrip to see if being American will grant him rights to see the facilities and bunkers.
Good for you. Maybe they'll wise up that doing BS like this hurts them more than it helps them.
No, he had permission. It would be trespassing if he entered unlawfully, however, since he believed that he had permission to be there, which he did since he talked with a person who was authorized to give him permission, he wasnt trespassing. As to Area 51. If he got landing clearance to set down, he could do that. I he paid a regular fee to look in the bunkers that Area 51 charged ans did the tribe to camp for 3 days, then he would be good there also.
I went to Havasupi falls on high-school. Such a wonderful experience. I'm grateful I got to go without any trouble.
Local pilots should make this airstrip the touch and go capital of Arizona.
I’m down
Highly recommend not doing that. 😂
@limulus61
0 seconds ago
That sounds like a bad idea. They could booby trap the runway with potholes or something worse like a cable and claim that the runway is closed.
@@limulus61fuck they gonna do? im touch n going the shit out their area and if they try to send a bullshit ass “tribal heli” on me they can deal with the fuel costs as we BOTH fly into an actual COUNTRY with an actual government.
@@limulus61The US military might be interested in cratering the runway as an exercise. Force it closed. Forever. Oops.
As a pilot who is based in AZ - I really want to thank you for sharing your account of what happened. You always hear "folk lore" or "anecdotes" of things like this being a problem, but to see your two videos is a real eye opener. Who knows, maybe your videos will help keep that one council member in check and they won't re-file.
At any rate, it's always a good rule to stick to public use airports on this side of the line, if you know what I mean.
In 2004, my wife and I were driving through NM and had stopped for gas that was tribal owned (won't say which reservation). After we had topped off and were leaving a dog had run out and I accidentally hit this dog (believe me I was devastated). Turns out the dog belonged to one of the tribal elders and you can imagine what happened next. I was detained (overnight), and my truck impounded. I ended up paying $200 dollars for the fine, $250 for the dog and $300 for the impound fee. Now remember this is 2004 and they allowed me to use my credit card (very lucky) After we had left that piss hole, I was able to call in a hold on those transactions, cancel the card (report stolen etc etc). One hour later they called me (on my flip phone lol) and told me i needed to return (this time with cash). I told them sure, I'm on my way. Of course, I never did and believe me they did their best to threaten me with all sorts of action. They even called my local area police and tried lying about what took place. These people are corrupt beyond belief. I avoid those places and those people. I know it sounds bad but they are bat shit crazy.
Don’t be shy, name the tribe.
They still think they are playing cowboys and indians.......
Lies. Chargebacks don't go threw that quickly. It takes multiple days for them to report it to the merchant collector.
@@gotyoutriggered.8644You don’t know what you’re talking about. For starters, it’s not a chargeback if the transaction hasn’t settled yet.
@@gotyoutriggered.8644not really, when disputing charges on my credit card I got the bank to dispute those charges within the day
My guy, you must stop going back. You're going to end up arrested, or worse. Let it go to federal court where subpoenas aren't optional. Have you filed a complaint with the FAA?
You don't know what you're talking about.
I suspect they’re not used to people standing their ground facing overwhelming BS in which they have total discretion.
Kind of like diplomatic immunity, just on the other foot.
Glad it worked out.
Lesson learned.
@@joesinakandid528why doesn't he you obviously don't understand what he means
First step should have been to report the plane as stolen to the FAA. Second step should have been to call the FBI. Tribes are subject to Federal Aviation Regulations. They can't just go stealing a plane and they can be charged criminally for it in Federal court. OP acted entirely in good faith so any minor offenses he may have committed are null and void.
Dude, don’t apologize for the absolute nonsense they put you through. They should never treat anyone like that and deserve 150% of the criticism for their scumbag laws and scumbag scams. It’s not racist, it’s objective reasoning and can’t be individually waived because they have one or two very good people who do the right thing… it’s the bad apples that assigns the risk and danger to the larger group. The world came to this conclusion and you didn’t tell anyone to think that way.
The FAA should mark that airspace restricted and label it dangerous to pilots and passengers.
Inferior behavior comes from inferior people.
@@hylomane bingo
Lucky the judge and your two witnesses had your back !
For sure. I'm very grateful.
This should have never been a court case to begin with.
Weird that the cop felt so comfortable lying though. Also weird that the defense didn't get body cams. That should have been handed over as part of discovery. But then again, all the cops refused to show up. Probably because if they were questioned under oath, they would get screwed.
@@thengine7I don't think lying under oath would have the same repercussions in the tribal courts as it does in the US court system
@@thengine7Lying on the stand is SOP for all police in the US. They even have a name for it: Testilying. It is part of their (unofficial, of course) training. If you’re ever a juror, you have to keep this in mind.
Here is how tribal courts work: "We win, you loose. This is our court, our judge, our rules, and we change the rules when ever we want." Don't EVER do business or work on tribal land, and don't ask how I know that.
Yup 100% nailed it. I won a case where a business leased property on tribal land. Insurance settled. But it’s the Wild West on tribal land. The sooner you know that the better.
Sounds like DOJ
@@ricksomers881 shhh 🤫
Amen I did work on tribal land here in Michigan never again I give the tribal price in writing after i finish the job they said that would owning pay 50% and local courts could not help me and this is one the reason I hear people cut tribal nets in the Great Lakes
@@josephfrench9177 you just have to know how to do business with them. It’s very simple. Money up front and double the estimate and never quote. They got money. They’re just bored and like to mess with anyone they can. The drinking and drugs gets boring too. We deal with southwest tribes.
I am retired from the FAA, and spent over 20 years in flight services, before they were contracted out to Lockheed Martin. You need to contact the United States NOTAMs Office (USNOF). It is "...located in Warrenton, Virginia at the Air Traffic Control System Command Center. The USNOF operates 24/7 and is charged with quality control and dissemination of NOTAMs within the National Airspace System (NAS)."
Before they consolidated the USNOF, as part of the contracting out process, the standard procedure outside of Alaska was each state had 1-3 AFSS. Each one kept the legal records on the issuance of NOTAMs in their area, and they also had list of who can issue them, supplied by the airport operator.
Now I was located in a state with no reservations. So I have never dealt with an airport on a reservation as being any different than any other private, restricted airport. Private airports had much less oversight than the smaller public strips. BUT even private airstrips had to keep the status up to date.
You need to check the airport facility directory for that state, checking that airport is listed in it. Also the secrional charts which should indicate a private, restricted airport.
Those FAA Publications have valid dates, so just make sure your accessing the proper ones and then see what they show. The FAA takes closing an airport deadly serious, because if there's an accident their people can become liable if they did not handle airport information that was reported to them properly.
There should be a log, I assume it is fully computerized now which it wasn't when we were contracted out. The person who took the information has to indicate who gave it to them, the date and the time. They have to match that name to the list the airport operator supply them of people authorized two issue them. So if the airport was closed and then opened again all that information should be there. If it is not, then it's pretty cut and dried.
Now we didn't get that involved with the private strips, except when pilots indicated there were big x's on the end, yet the airport facility directory didn't indicate it was closed. This required us telling them that there is no way we can give them any indication whether they can land at the airport or not, we are going to try to contact the operator and find out what the status is. We then immediately called the local FAA airport field office, and informed them that a private pilot, who's information we had to give them, had reported the airport as having a large X's at the runway ends, which is supposed to indicate it's closed. It all got handled, and the airport was not only closed but I can't remember how many publication cycles it took, but it finally stopped even being listed. For a temporary closure there's a very distinct paper trail, and while I've never had to deal with it, reopening an airport that has been "permanently closed" is going to be barely any different than just opening a new airport. If you look at the list I have appended at the end, all of those offices in the FAA will have to be involved, and it's a tremendous amount of work. Once you permanently close an airport, the FAA treats it as having cease to exist. So "reopening" the airport is really treated more like just opening a new private airport.
Here's an added guide to the current FAA offices that deal with airports. It's Google AI, but I retired a decade ago so I'm hoping it's more up to date than I am. Nothing jumps out at me as incorrect.
"The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has multiple divisions that regulate airports, including:
Airports Safety and Operations Division: Responsible for airport safety and certification, including aircraft rescue and firefighting, emergency management, and damage control
Office of Airports Safety and Standards: Responsible for airport design, construction, maintenance, operations, safety, and certification
Airports Compliance Division: Responsible for airport compliance
Regional Airports Division and District Offices (ADOs): Responsible for regional airports
The FAA also has divisions for engineering, design, construction, and data and airspace. "
I would use all of your information and recover all your losses. The airport was open for business from what I can see.
This comment needs more upvotes and to be pinned.
If he had just reported the plane stolen in the first place, he would have had it back faster. Tribes are subject to Federal Aviation Regulations and the FAA won't issue a title, registration or airworthiness certificate on a plane that has been reported stolen. It is a Federal offence and getting the FBI involved would have been the correct course of action. OP acted in good faith and, as such, they had no right to seize it.
These people were way in over their heads when they decided to try and seize an airplane and they should stick to stealing cars and guns. There are at least a couple of people in this scenario who are lucky they didn't end up in prison.
Bingo. This sounds like some Scottsdale putz mad because he couldn't be bothered to read a NOTAM or check in with the airport first.
As a native myself, both trucks would've somehow ended up on their roofs and the plane would have miraculously been gone. We don't play these games. They wanted the plane.
They could move methamphetamine around easier with a plane.
I'm sure this could have gone a different way, if the youtube algorithm hadn't pushed this to the front of peoples feed in the first place. They got called out in an massive public fashion, and now "look" like the bad guys. Glad you were able to get things cleared up, definitely makes me want to rethink visiting tribal lands again, and I was just there a few weeks ago Visiting Page AZ.
Not sure what town it was, but had a few tribal members catcalling my 13 year old daughter, But I'm smart enough to know I just need to move on down the road, and not escalate into a fight. Like who in the hell catcalls a 13 year old girl.
People need to stop camping at the reservation. Imagine all the RVs and cars they also stole. Everyone headed out there needs to be warned on social media. Seriously how can anyone with an RV especially a high priced one risk camping at an Indian reservation campsite?
They could care less about this on TH-cam. Just maybe the Justice system works ,,,,,, not the narrative you're looking for?
Ask an FBI agent what the usual crime is they investigate on the rez...
@@Moto848 you can just call them tribal members
We all know what you mean
Different reservation Different tribes.
This is why 'tribal' arrangements of authority should be abrogated. They could just abuse their power and get away with it because muh racism
Honestly I would contact the FAA, if it was "closed" and someone still made an emergency landing that could be catastrophic.
If you're talking about tribes in the Southwest, I treat it them like crossing into the first ~100 miles of Mexico: Get through the area, do not stop... Corruption is rampant, everyone official blames someone else for anything they are charging you with, and they tend to push charges to the limit of the law and beyond... Lesson to pilots: DO NOT FLY INTO AIRPORTS ON REZ!!!!
if you do fly into an airport on the reserve, get permission from the tribal council IN WRITING and sealed/signed.
@@tech4pros1 IMHO, Much easier not to go anywhere near the place.
@@tech4pros1 Why so you can still be forced to go to court? just don't.
She wanted to keep the plane so she could have her own plane. I guarantee that after she was no longer the chairwoman, the plane ownership would be in her name only.
You ran into BAD INDIANS.
Likely too drunk to fly it though.
@@redbird444😂😂😂
@@redbird444 are you serious. WTF man? You sound like a bigot. I'm half Native American and registered with my tribe. Your comment is 100% offensive.
One problem I hear about a lot with Tribal Councils is corrupt leadership. I have no doubt this was nothing but a money grab. It cost the tribe little to make is a hard fight for the rightful owner so the tribe had little to lose vs the gain of a many tens of thousands of dollars worth of airplane to seize. Its like a cop doing a civil asset forfeiture, low risk, high reward, and this makes policing for profit possible (and illustrates why it should be outlawed due to easy abuse).
Patricia, beautiful smile, and your spirit shines, you make your tribe look so good. Integrity kindness civility to our fellow humanity. Your everything that is a positive to justice.
She was absolutely awesome.
Exactly! She ( your advocate and others telling the truth) prove that there is good everywhere and that you can't define a place by the acts of a few. Her actions SHOULD cool the jets of anyone condemning the entire reservation. However, your video message is clear: plan ahead, get informed and get things in writing!
@@abdelgonzalez8430 There ARE Darwin Award Front Runners in every crowd sadly - but hey thank goodness there are also AMAZING HUMAN BEINGS that make up for them & keep us on track..
Had my Jeep “confiscated” on the Flathead Reservation. That was even though I paid the $100 annual fee to drive on it. To this day, I see the guy who confiscated it, driving it. Was told by an FBI Agent, “You Will NEVER Find An FBI Agent Driving On A Reservation Unless It’s For Official Business”
I'm worried you're not joking here…
dude that is crazy. i can say no more.
Liar.
@@I_Am_Your_Problem wait.. who is?
IT sounds like the US and Canada needs to get rid of apartheid since that's what the Indian reservations are.
No matter the result of the case:
Do not return to that land.
Tell the FAA that the Airport is "unwelcoming" for non-local planes.
You WILL be retaliated against by the officials. It is not worth risking your well-being.
Fact, you have an airplane. Fact, the tribe (A couple of officials anyways) sees that as having wealth and they want you to be relieved of some of it no matter who get's it. You're right, it is that simple.
And in a back door way they got what they wanted. I’m sure he had to pay his tribal attorney, court fees, parking, other expenses that the tribe gets to collect regardless for verdict. You know why they force you to use an “approved rep” it’s not because they are “really really really good” it’s because it’s the enemy they know or they are on the pay roll. Got luck that lady stood up for you bet she never gets a case their again. The comment your dad overheard after tells you exactly what the intentions were and that was to shake you down....which they did.
YEP
@@Eric-oi5yj He said that he had talked to 2 different people and got permission. If he didn't have permission I get the Tribe being bent. I didn't see where he didn't get permission in the last video. If I'm wrong, do I have to go to Tribal Court? I'll actually be on a Res. next week. Different tribe, boat, no plane. Peace.
@@Eric-oi5yj Hey Eric, you obviously enjoy supporting extortion, despicable. He HAD permission. His fault was not getting it in writing, shame on him for trusting the word of another human being. It was extortion and despicable and the fact you are supporting it makes you just as bad. Or are you one of the extortionists? Maybe so
@@Eric-oi5yj Yeah, like I said, his mistake was accepting the verbal word of someone, of course in your life you never make that mistake, pitiful. He learned painful lesson about dealing with the tribal managers, you must be a member.
This is a lost opportunity for that Arizona Native American Tribe, they could setup an FBO charge people a daily tiedown fee and sell fuel but they blew it. Some people are just too STUPED to see an OPPORTUNITY when it falls in their LAP!!!
That would require them to not have a r***al hatred. It seems to me this is about sticking it to people and they would rather pull pennies on the dollar harming those they direct that hatred towards instead of making money.
Your legal representation was the real MVP and I think the true ambassador of the tribe. 👍👍
No MVP's in any of this, just a corrupt tribal group.
I am a retired state police officer with a large department on the west coast. After I retired I applied for several job openings as an Investigator for District Attorneys' Offices in the region. I was hired by a neighboring county as a Criminal Investigator with the District Attorney's office. There were two openings, one of the jobs was as a Casino Crimes Investigator as there are 4 different Indian Casinos in the county. The other job was as an Investigator for serious DUI cases, such as felony manslaughter, severe injuries, repeat offenders, etc. I chose to investigate DUI cases, having to deal with the trauma of the victims and their families. I know how corrupt most of the gaming casinos are and the in-fighting between Tribal Councel members. The temptations of such huge amounts of money is difficult for some people to resist, and also personal grudges between Tribal members is common.
I can see why you made the choice...
Sounds like you may have worked in the albuquerque NM area. Am I right or just assuming? Just curious
@@Shouldwegooutside why do you not address all the people being bigots in the comments saying that stuff. That's why our country is the way it is. Be the better person.
There tends to be a lot of power struggles within tribes
@@ruger8412 What is bigoted about cardo718's commnet? It is obvously a fact the indians scam just about anyone setting foot on tribal land, as evident of all the commenters personal stories. Just because it dosen't fit your narrative dosen't mean it isn't right.
Escalating the case to a "real" court seems like the better idea tbh, tribes seem to act more like the mafia taking advantage of their special rights. But you got your plane out, don't go back to the scammer if you already manage to leave. Especially if you already knew that the tribe court won't work out for you I don't get the point of returning into the lions cage. BUT I have to thank you for all this information, as a German I never thought that the American people would allow minorities to break almost every law of their institution. I will definitely avoid tribe sections of the US at all cost from now on.
Glad the information could help. This was a whole learning experience for me as well.
Im laughing at your comment..Native nations and their territory are not part of the US laws...and you say mafia? very racist and biased and as German you have no idea of how the colonists killed murdered executed genocide of the Natives here in the US..and then accuse natives of being a minority? Thats like calling all Germans Hitlers Nazi executioners.....and I have German roots and Native American both..please read history instead of commenting on Native Americans as some kind of minorities...when my relatives were executed in the the largest execution in US history by Lincoln and they were innocent...and I did live and work in Germany for a few years always respect the culture and understand
@@Pilot2315 we don’t let minorities break all the rules. Not even close to an accurate statement.
They were sick of getting strong armed themselves, so I don't blame them. One word "Oklahoma"
It's really guilt and trying to make up for the past, but instead letting some of the tribal members run a racket. I don't think they should be allowed to lure unsuspecting non-tribal members on and then unfairly exert dominance though. It is a shame, because there are many great tribal members, but there are also a handful that run amok.
Commented on your last video about them taking your plane, about us stealing back my friends helicopter from tribe police. We knew if we didn't get it back as soon as we did we'd probably never see it again. I'm glad you came out of this on the up side!
I loved this story! That’s how it should be haha
I grew up in south east michigan, on the border with canada. We regularly had to go over to the indian reserves in canada to steal our shit back.
@@danielhamilton698
They really were once a great and noble people, but now it seems that almost anything that winds up on reservation land is never seen again! Glad you got your stuff back!
I always had a feeling that people of the tribal land abuse there special powers.
Take their powers away and their land. This is America. They lost their land because they are weak! End of story.
My wife is half Navajo. Corruption, self enrichment and civil rights violations are very common.
For example, when the tribe switched from printed paper to plastic for id cards they charged a fee for the cards. No problem there seems normal. It was stated that the $25 fee was only to cover the cost of producing the cards. At the time I was involved in making security badges our cost was around $1.80 per card. We had nowhere near the volume discount the tribe would have gotten. Labor costs would be minimal as they already had people making the paper cards. There was never a public accounting as to the remainder of the fee money.
There are countless other examples of bribes, kickbacks, nepotism, cronyism and plain old embezzlement. No one ever gets in trouble. The average Dine citizen just remains stuck in poverty. Many without running water or electricity service. Getting Internet connected is probably easier now with starlink if you can afford it.
It's basically lawless. You step foot on a reservation, you had better have a hundred grand set aside for lawyer fees in the "just in case" scenario.
And the predominately white government people never use or advise special powers?
@@chuckschillingvideosThey are just looking for another round of cowboys and Injuns. It’s looking like we need to finish the game.
"That's what we get for being nice. We should have kept the plane." Said the communist bureaucrat.
That’s what the White Man gets for being nice and letting them keep any tribal land or any self-governance.
Nah she's seen how BLM and Al Sharpton act and she wants her piece of the pie
Definitely something Trump would mumble.
@@ruger8412
You just make stuff up, don’t you.
Thieving from those outside the tribe is a huge part of North American Indian culture.
Where do you think the stereotypes came from?
@@ruger8412aww got a little crush on Trump, huh?
If they retaliate because you made a video, that will prove that they are in wrong. Punishing people for telling the truth is what power-hungry dictators do.
Criminalizing non-criminal activity doesn't make sense, and should warrant an investigation. Also, fish and game officers? You weren't hunting or fishing, you were out of their lane.
Keep flying, keep telling your story.
I agree.. If they retaliate after this... It only further demonstrates their stance.
I had the same quesitons - they searched my plane up and down for any indication that I was on the land for hunting and couldn't find any signs - why they were the ones doing this after the police had already communicated with me and we'd come to a resolution is stills something I don't understand.
They are two separate law enforcement agencies though..
I appreciate the support.
@@Shouldwegooutside they will not re-file. They will make themselves look even dumber if they do.
@@Starfish2145might bold assuming they won't double-down on their prettiness. I wouldn't put it past them to try to save face after he's called out their shenanigans on a major media platform.
in many areas fish and game officers have as much power or more than the state police
Aligns very well with everything I’ve heard and experienced about tribal police
Glad you got your plane back! Just found your channel and subbed!
It honestly sounds like a setup. There’s no markings stating that the runway is closed even from the air. That’s a huge red flag. The confusing phone numbers, and being bounced back and forth. That’s pretty Susp man! I feel like had they of gotten your plane, they would have planted something in it.
When I was 8, I bought some candy on the reservation. This lady was following me around. I didn’t think much of it because I was young, but my friends mom called her out. The lady accused me of stealing. After she found my receipt, she just said “ok” and walked off. Never got an apology. The most painful part was, the clerk looked right at me and didn’t say anything in my defense. I’m 31 years old, and refuse to step foot on any reservation because of that.
I will never give these people a dime of my money. Thanks for bringing awareness to this
WTF do you mean by these people?
@@dlmgrace52 Indians.
@@dlmgrace52ur disgusting people
You already have if you pay taxes….
Someone didn't watch the video, it was two, TWO bad actors. Yes one bad apple ruins the crate, this is true for a system but doesn't mean you get to be a dck
Went hunting with a member of a Southwestrn tribes LEO several times, and good lord the stories he's told me leave me in major doubt of even stepping foot on the res. He's thankfully (his words, not mine) left the res LEO position for one in a major city, and has such a better time there not looking over his shoulder at both suspects and especially his fellow LEO coworkers.
Just a future heads up. The trucks blocking in the airplane have shift linkage thats pretty easy to get to.
Or remove the driveshaft
Yep. Pull one c-clip, use channel locks to rachet the shifter down
Btw, even IF the runway was "closed", you still had permission from the appropriate authority to make a landing at the location.
Remember, a "closed" airport landing is just an off airport landing.
If I own a strip, close the strip, mark the strip with yellow Xs, notify the FAA that the strip is closed, call flight service and file a NOTAM that the runway is closed, I can still land there and give permission to anyone else I want to be able to land there.
Just like the purple "no hunting" stripes on the trees around a piece of property. That means "no hunting" to hunters who don't have permission, it has no effect for people who were given explicit permission.
The easiest way to lose tourism 😖💰
Stay away from those crazy places/ people , nice places but corrupt laws 🐀
It is way better to fly the Baja , very friendly people , low prices and the best food and margaritas 🧉🥂🍻🍺🧋🥃
Blue skies and happy landings everyone ✈️🤗
The FAA needs to be involved in this. They need to be formally notified and actions/steps need to be done so no other pilot(s) have such experience..............ever.
I will never go back on tribal land. My friend and were hiking on a marked public use hiking trail near canyon de chelly az. A drunk man approached us with a large knife in his hands and started yelling at us and wanted $500! He was so drunk he could barely walk. We will never go on any tribal land again.
LMFAO! Scared of F ing drunk NDN. C’mon man, all you had to do is say “Boo” and he would’ve ran off to the bootleggers 😂
That sounds great. We don't want you on our land anyway.
@@wagonburnereb in case any legal dispute that drunk guy will be the victim
@@falrus still funny sh*t, probably your first time
This is literally "any street America"😅😅
Tribal sovereignty needs to go the way of the Dodo.
Tribes are actually trying right now to get MORE power over non-tribal members with regards to offenses committed on their land
@@AviationAtomtheyve been trying that since the attempted genocide on jamestown
@@buffbatman2😂😂
@@AviationAtomwhere can I find this info
I hope this story gets wider circulation.
Pilots need to know about this kind of hazard.
Most out of the way communities with airports go the extra mile to make pilots feel welcome. It brings income into the community.
Here in Alaska it's pretty bad etiquette to just go landing at random airstrips. You may loose more than your plane... The ones on public land are ok. Reservations aren't public land.
also, imagine all the corruption at the RV and campsites. How many RVs have the tribal leaders stolen?
@@11regnartseht that isn't what happened here. I don't think anyone is proposing just landing at random air strips outside of an emergency.
@@zirconiumdiamond1416 didn't he land to go for a hike?
@@11regnartseht yep. After asking if it was okay.
I'm an enrolled member of a tribe in Oregon. You got lucky that the tribal court judge recused herself. She did the right thing, but most tribal judges are completely in the tank for the tribal council that hires them. There are many good tribal employees and some tribes are better than others, but the overall operations, to varying degrees, are bad. Most tribal businesses couldn't survive if they weren't protected and heavily subsidized by the federal government. Sadly, tribal council members are often the worst offenders. They get repeatedly re-elected by doling out favors and tribal money to their political supporters and their own families. They have almost no accountability and no oversight. I wish it were different, but that's how it is.
I’m grateful it worked out, would not have been possible without some of the tribal members help.
@@Shouldwegooutside Tribal people are generally the biggest victims of bad tribal government. They live in a vicious cycle of abuse by corrupt tribal officials because there's little if any accountability and often no transparency from tribal governments.
I'm glad they came through for you, but mostly I'm glad that your story is here on TH-cam. It's always good for the public to have a glimpse of the inner workings of tribal government and malicious bureaucracy.
this is insane. Glad to see you had a great attorney and good folk to help you through this.
The judge should have had the guy who lied about the airport being closed charged with perjury. Clearly, it's a lie and he knows it's a lie.
Very good cautionary tale
Best thing we can hope for... at this point I mean.
@@Shouldwegooutsideyou should find out what businesses those tribal leader have if any. Then they can be boycotted
I live in Arizona. As a white person I avoid the reservations like the plague. This is exactly why.
The problem with the tribes is they want the same standard of living without having to make the sacrifices that we all have to make,others aren't going to keep paying the bills for them
Have you read some history books? Their land was stolen. We are the illegal migrants!
One could argue that they have in fact have sacrifice plenty, not an excuse for these actions shown on this video.
@fredpinczuk7352 So did every other country that was some time in the past invaded could do pranks like these... Only see the most corrupt people do these tings like africa or russia.
Yup. Thanks to corruption by tribal leaders, Indian reservations lose millions of dollars from tourists and casinos. Thousands of years from now the reservations just like Haiti will still look the same as it does today.
@fredpinczuk7352 losing a fight isn't a sacrifice. They're still ass hurt about getting their ass kicked.
They just thought that they could get a free plane and some extra cash not thinking that there would be a fight involved!
You need to find out if that airport receives ANY Federal funds or money from the General Aviation Trust Fund. If they do, they are required to allow public use of the airport. The fact that they have navigational aids indicates that they get Federal Funding.
If you find out that they do receive Federal Funds, let it go to Federal Court, you will win.
This sounds like some organized crime shake down in a third world hell hole. Oh...what am I saying...it IS an organized criminal shake down in a third world hell hole.
The days of “tribal land” need to end. We gave those people way too much power.
What? You're a bigot. Did you not take history growing up? Or ever for that matter? Move on,,, go vote for your draft waiver dodging millionaire bigot.
TRAIL OF TEARS TRAIL OF TEARS ✊️ (2.0)
The US government should treat this just like they would treat an American caught up in the judicial system of another country. How about making the reservation of limits for a couple of years. Let's see how the tribe can survive.
Thank you for not being another openly racist person. So many people think we're all the same, ignoring the fact that our tribes have completely different cultures, histories, and ancestors. Even where we came from could be different. Not all Native people crossed the land bridge there's proof of human presence in the Americas from long before it existed. Our ancestors likely came from different places, and we deserve to be seen and respected for our unique identities. But to be honest, the tribal government he was talking about is a piece of shit and deserves the hate.
@@rudyrivera7749 unfortunately in another country americans will not get special treatment take mexico for an example they can make up charges on you and keep you indefinitely unless you pay off their bribes russia another example look at that basket ball player she has been playing basket ball there for a while and Russia does give ya pamphlets pertaining what is legal and not legal to bring into their country underline there country not ours their rules not we are Americans they do not care if we break their laws we go to their prisons and courts and Russia is notorious for a kangaroo court system aswell as Mexico where there is no fair courts
@@rudyrivera7749 by the way the reservations will out last us greengos think about it those reservations lasted for hundreds of years without our help lol
On our tax dollars. They would make much less, but they would still be on the teat of every tax payer.
Sad part is they could make a thriving business to offer permits for travel companies to use the airport and transportation to the falls. Similar how other tribes charge to see horse shoe bend.
Seems to me its not about money. They make plenty thieving from people in their casinos. This is about punishment and hatred IMO.
I worked for a company that did work with tribes in New Mexico, new construction stuff
I was talking to the guy installing the water softener system at a school
Asked how much a system cost, he told me that they would lease them out to anyone else but tribes.
He said they would stop paying on the lease and when they wanted come and get their equipment, but the tribes would say they are a sovereign and that it was their equipment now
Happened a couple times and was sold to tribes instead of leased.
lucky, one of my friends got pulled over on tribal land, no point of entry or anything. just because he had hunting stickers they searched his truck. they found his hunting rifle and his shotgun. they ceased his truck, trailer and guns, never was able to get a court date. was just left on the side of the road just outside of the tribal land. he had to use 911 service to get help out of in the middle of nowhere
A long time ago I took a concealed weapons permit class and learned the restrictions of where weapons can be brought: reservations are a big NO. It's like bringing a firearm into another country. You are under completely different laws.
Thats absolutely insane. They searched my plane for ANY indication that I was there as a hunter poaching.. Luckily there was no indication.
That is really good to know...
@@pdzh ignorance of the law is no excuse
@@RetreadPhoto 👨🦼
A friend of my Dad and fellow pilot once told him that shortly after he mustered out of the Navy from WWII he bought a light plane and took his new bride on a cross-country flight of America. Somewhere over the southwest desert they had to make an emergency landing on one of the Indian Reservations. Some natives spotted them and came by to investigate. Craig chatted with them, then told his wife to stay with the plane while he and a couple of braves went for help. She adamantly refused, fearing she might be scalped, so she joined him on the back of a donkey instead. After 40 years, Craig still laughed whenever he described his bride's Hollywood image of Native American Indians. After hearing your story I'd say there's more than one way to get scalped. 😉
As a non tribal member, I've had nothing but good experiences dealings with five of the six tribal nations in my area. Always fair, reasonable and accommodating to neighbors, visitors and businesses in the community. The sixth tribe is run by their largest family, gets along with nobody, running even tribal members who object or challenge them off by disqualifying their tribal heritage. .I wouldn't trust them or set foot on their property.
Agreed that most tribes are decent, EBCI in Western NC have always been good to me. Been there many times at the casino or visiting other areas of the Res. Never felt like I was in a foreign country, rather it felt like I was in a cultural area of the state and we all respected that. Its cool to see many of the road signs in their native language along with english. Never heard of folks getting harassed by tribal police there. Just dont do stupid shit and you'll be fine, just like anywhere else. I have never questioned going onto the Res, nor do I know anyone that has, for us North Carolinians its a welcoming area with no hostility. I have always had a good impression of Native Americans because of the EBCI, its a shame some tribes abuse their authority.
Got me thinking, if I ever fly my Mooney over Arizona on my way from Texas to California, I will definitely need to map out land and airports to avoid at all costs. Not an issue I considered before seeing this. Thank you.
Aviation maps definitely do not show tribal land boundaries either…
@@Shouldwegooutside I'll need to cross reference my aviation planning maps with tribal land maps on the Internet...but yes, it would be nice to see it in RED in Foreflight like TFRs!
@@Shouldwegooutside
@alcarmad
I really like this idea.
You don't need Foreflight company to develop custom KML overlay files, and they wouldn't do it anyway for PR purposes... but I wonder who we could get this idea in front of who has a database of tribal lands and the know how to convert that data into KML format.
They could then make it publicly available on github and update it as needed.
@@alcarmad Foreflight supports user layers; the Census website has KML files that include reservation boundaries (you'll have to filter out other off reservation areas used for census purposes).
Sounds like there is a market for that.@@Shouldwegooutside
Glad to hear it worked out. It's quite disappointing to hear that the chairwoman allegedly said what she said. If she indeed said that, she sounds like a horrible representative of her tribe and I'd be embarrassed if she were part of my government. Seems that the witnesses called in your case have integrity (told the truth) and that the tribal judge fairly and honestly heard your case. Rest easy!
you land on tribal nation you are subject to their jurisdiction and rules even driving this guy was an idiot, and then looking for commodification denial is not a river in egypt...
I was disappointed as well. When i met her that day I was glad she was there because I was under the impression she was on my side. She was the one who signed the form letting me pick up the plane.
Unfortunately it looks like I was wrong.
@@lutomson3496 @lutomson3496 perhaps you should review his account of the facts in his video before concluding he's an "idiot". Your remark makes me believe you're perhaps very angry and resentful that justice was served. The chairwoman to tribal council is probably just as angry as you are about the fact that the judge served a fair hearing.
I'm surprised how many TH-cam pilot experts there are in the comments telling me how I ignored the rules...
I'm starting to think maybe they aren't real pilots and maybe they don't know anything about the rules they are telling me I ignored.
Sounds like she was upset about the first TH-cam video "This is what we get for begin nice" . I suspect internal dispute these officers were upset that a deal was made without they being involved.
The problem has never been the everyday native americans living on the reservation, they're often being screwed over by their corrupt leaders as much as you were, but they have to live with it day in day out (until they've had enough and leave, as many do). So many on these reservations live in abject poverty on land they're not allowed to own. That's partly why many are so eager to help (beyond just being nice people) because they know how much pain it causes them and their neighbours. The problem is nearly always with the unaccountable and greedy tribal leaders at the top.
I know a handful of missionaries and a girl who's part native American and lived on a reservation. They all say that the members are abused by the consuls. Also the federal government. Its never ending and very sad.
No way I am going to the falls now, I have cancelled everything
Good, the amount of money they make off it, is sickening.
It’s a shame, because they are beautiful.
@@RJAZ89 gives “mafia” vibes
@@fraudieYT my vehicle broke down on Route 66, that runs through their reservation and I pulled 25 feet off 66, onto a small berm that technically was "theirs" and they hassled me and threatened to get my car gone ASAP or they could impound it. Luckily I live nearby, just outside their reservation border and got it moved quick. They suck, and they talk to shit on everyone lol
I don't have any "Indian" stories that reach this level but it does bring one to mind. Several years ago(when I was in my early 50's) I decided to ride a bicycle from the Pacific to the Atlantic. One day, while on some reservation or another, a Trible police officer stopped me. One of the questions he asked was... "Do your parents know where you are?" HUH???
😂
@@Shouldwegooutside if you're laughing at this you don't understand why he was asking. He wanted to know if there was anyone who could report him missing.
But did your parents know ? Lmao kidding
A German here. Thought to travel as a Tourist inside those Areas of Arizona. Now I know, I better spend my Money somewhere else instead of traveling the US. A simply Nope to Corruption.
You have got to be kidding.
@@Milkmans_Son Nope.
Most of us here would likely stay out of Germany too. I've heard of a lot of corruption in Germany too.
@@markr.1984not a lot of corruption, just too many immigrants
@@sweaspurdoddd5466 Are you a tribal member? If not you are likely an immigrant.
Officer Woods deserves high praises for his act of reaching out to Mr Cowsier of the tribe, and confirming that verbal permission had been granted. To have a sworn testimony from Officer Woods is GOLD. Tribe can't go against this.
I'll never go to havesu falls after reading about the abuse they did to those pack mules.
I'm glad your doing these video's letting people know what actually can happen in a tribal area. I have lived all over the world and stepping off the plane in a foreign land always makes me very uncomfortable. Glad I live in the US and now know to avoid these spots in the US.
This type of problem is common in all levels of city, county and state goverments. And it is even worse at the federal level.
The Hualapai tribe in northern Arizona moved quickly to open a casino at its Grand Canyon West tourist site.
Tribal leaders figured that slot machines would provide new revenue for the tribe's 1,200 members, many of whom have lived in poverty for years. But they forgot that most of the 100,000 visitors to Grand Canyon West each year come directly from Las Vegas.
It closed within a year and they were one million dollars in debt.
Oof.. that makes sense.. If I wanted to gamble, I would have stayed in Vegas.
@@Shouldwegooutside Sounds like you were gambling already and didn't know it
This is a heartwarming story.
I just e-mailed the tribal council as an enrolled Tribal member of another tribe to see what their reply is for landing permission. Also included my Air Force records and FAA licenses and
American Association of Airport Executives Certified Member certification. Will post back.
Highly interested.
You might need to snail mail that certified to get any kind of reply.
You might need to snail mail that certified to get any kind of reply.
if tribes want to practice tribal law over tribal land, then maybe they should discard all the non-tribal benefits they use, for example, clothing, motorized transportation, modern weapons. if they want to express tribal law, maybe they should revert back to pre-european times and live according to tribal law.
This situation reminds me of Yellow Stone series where the reservation tried to steal the ranch’s cattle!
Enjoyed you sharing your story. Also good of you to point out that not all tribal members are jerks but a few bad apples at the top can spoil impressions for everyone else.
i will never go to the falls after watching this video
Tribes looking for handouts, what a surprise!
This is why I don't spend any money when traveling through tribal land for any reason, this means I don't support local casinos, and if I can I pass right through without getting even gasoline. I live in an area where I have to go through res land to get anywhere west and north. I prefer not to even stop at all, sometimes I dont have a choice if i need gas though. Not all natives are bad people, however, I have never been anywhere more racist towards non-natives in my life.
I been reading all the negative comments here and I'm Mexican who happened to have 2 boys with a native from this reservation. The only assholes are the cops, natives are just like any other group, you'll have some that are assholes trying to take advantage of non-natives and you got the ones that are down to earth and will look out for you. It sucks you had a bad experience and that was due to the ones in charge. I've been separated from my kids Mom for ten years so I'm not speaking on their behalf just cuz I can, I'm simply stating things the way I see them and based on personal experience with natives from this reservation. I'm glad you got your place back.
*plane
That attorney is precious.
There needs to be a permanent NOTAM out for this airport, warning all pilots that the airport is closed.
I'm a retired cop. This case reminds me of a small town I once knew of which was sandwiched between two larger jurisdictions. Both towns on either side had posted 55mph speed limits but the speed limit in that one tiny stretch of road through their town was 35mph. They would set up a speed trap on the highway where the speed limit suddenly dropped from 55mph to 35mph and cite persons for speeding unless they stood on their brakes to obtain that 35mph speed in about 10 yards. That section of road was perfectly straight and well lit and was not through the center of town. It was a money-making tool for that municipality. It sounds like that's what that airport is. Why else leave it so that it appears to be open when they assert that it's closed. It's perfect, if they can't squeeze huge fines out of you they have the plane which they can sell at a huge profit, which works great as a coercive tool. What a scam!
The State of Oregon had to make it illegal to fund a city's budget, with more than a certain percentage, from traffic fines. This was the only way they could shut this type of corruption down.
Just like everywhere else in the world, it boils down to personal integrity and accountability, to all people in an all branches of government worldwide
Super glad you got charges dismissed and got your plane back. This is the tribal version of civil asset forfeiture without any criminal act! It happens a lot more than people think.
Once you're on a reservation you are no longer under the same rules as a American unless you're part of said tribe.. my sister in law lives in new Mexico she sees balloons confiscated all the time during balloon fest even if its a emergency landing on a res, i was a repo agent in Washington years ago had plenty of repo orders for cars on different reservations i always had to be extremely careful trying to take a Banks property back off a res , they can make your life very difficult/dangerous situations can arise. I usually called the tribal police ahead before entering what i found is the tribal police usually gave rhe person a heads up that someone eas going to take the vehicle and hide it somewhere before i got there! It was harder than getting a car off a naval base! Usually i had to trick the owner into leaving the res and then take the vehicle.
Corruption in that tribe is at the highest level. They don’t get a pass just because they are Native. Trying to steal your plane using their authority is shameful.
I am staying away from this place, no way am I contributing to this “mafia”
I watched both videos. what are used to be able to fly into the Ute reservation in southwestern Colorado pre 1999 pay a 25$ per day trespass fee for the plane which included tiedown and basically around the clock security.
After 2000 they started getting money off of all and gas and it changed them, they started getting money hungry, they started wanting $200 a day and you had to park on the grass, also we have 3500 acres of land that join them and if someone wanted an animal and it ran on the reservation you used to be able to just call them, not anymore you have to pay $250 and a game warden will meet you out there and you have to pay an additional recovery fee and that’s if you can drag it back to your property, if you have to drive under the property to retrieve it the last I heard three years ago it was about $700. They just basically turned into money hustlers, sad.
That's wild… and to recover an animal on a neighbors property would ordinarily just be a common courtesy thing…
They have to figure out a way to keep paying for their Fire-Water.
$25*
Wouldn't you have been better off dealing with the FBI in a federal court?
Possibly.. But the thought scares the hell out of me…
@@Shouldwegooutside More than a tribal kangaroo court? I'd rather deal with feds.
@@UraniumEagle Feds would have been way more fair.
@@JustinHEMI05says someone that’s never worked with the feds 😂. It’s a toss up honestly. Both extremely crooked
@@Shouldwegooutside Seems like they would understand aviation better and wouldn't have sided with these tribal loonies.
Why do we still allow tribes to run outside of the law?
They are their own sovereign nation
This case is about two things that I hate:
1. Bureaucracy
2. Authoritarian A holes
Glad it worked out for you buddy.
The Tribe is just BOSS HOG and you're the Duke brothers! 🙂
I would have escalated to the federal level knowing I would be represented by US courts and not a Sovereign Nation court.
Same. My guess is that any Federal prosecutor would just drop the charges. They know bullshit when they smell it.
Funny coincidence, shortly after I watched the first video on this ordeal, I talked with a friend who mentioned that another friend of his wanted to go to the falls as a bucket list kind of trip.
I had to tell him that there's no way I would put myself in jeopardy of experiencing anything like what you went through.
I will go out of my way to avoid crossing any Indian land where these kinds of ordeals are too common.
Not to make any negative generalizations about a specific group, I just don't want to be a candidate for this kind of hassle.
Glad it appears you got a judge who seems to have been reasonable!
Hope the various indian tribes can make changes to increase transparency, honesty etc...
Now we need to get the same accomplished nationally by eliminating civil asset forfeiture (without a trial/conviction) and eliminate potential conflicts of interest in these cases which is all too common, it appears.
Also tell your friends that if he goes to Havasu Falls he’s likely to see starving horses, mules and dogs.
The FAA need to CLOSE this airport.
I’m glad you got it settled. But after watching your first video and now the second on how you were treated just changed our family’s vacation to the Grand Canyon in November. We were planning on staying at that resort to ride the horses and stay on the river but now we’re going to take the kids and our money somewhere else.
WOW!! My son and I and some friends and family were planning on hiking down to Havasupai falls next summer. I think after this and the many other bad experiences with tribal extortion we will find somewhere else to go. 😯
I live on the border of this rez and am white. They act strangely towards us. I would avoid and save the hassle.
I had heard of some of those areas on tribal lands down there and how cool they were but I had always had an instinct to stay away from tribes.....sounds like I was right.
I won't ever set foot on any of those tourist attractions