I would have put thee speaker into fuel tank with grill over a series of small holes, my cut of fuel would have been circular with speaker with capton tape over magnet fits into cavity in fuel tank in chassis when snapped back onto chassis
I need to find some smaller cube speakers. The smallest ones I have found so far are 11mmx15mm which is too big for these installs. I don't intend to cut the fuel tank out of every N scale locomotive I modify!
sbs4dcc is where I've bought mine, he lists his smallest size as being 8 x 12 x 6 mm (that should be speaker with the baffle attached, sbs4dcc part #4069). He also has baffles (enclosures) of different shapes. The speakers aren't presoldered to any wires, but the tiny size I think makes up for inconvenience.
Atlas also made the SD26 in Santa Fe (ATSF only) which is the same chassis ect. The decoder these models use are the same ones for Atlas's GP38's. Depending on the speaker you get, like a flat oval one, it will fit under the board just fine. Digitrax does make a sound decoder with said type of oval speaker and it fits, you will have to find room for the capacitor however (SDN144A0). If you want a real drop in decoder with sound (no need to modify), XL systems (MRC's manufacturer) makes one (XLsystemsdcc.com). Not the best sound quality from the XL ones but it does get the job done and are cheap for a sound decoder. Basically those are good for if you just want an engine sound coming from secondary units in an MU as the horn and bell aren't the best.
Drop in decoders aren't as easy as the manufacture would like you to believe. The Digitrax decoders come with the speakers wired to the circuit board. They also have a stay alive capacitor that needs to be insulated from the body. I would not remove that much of the fuel tank. If you have a friend with a drill press he could mill it out and leave the sides. Drumel probably has a drill press acc. that's inexpensive. It's helpful to me to see someone else struggle with this. Thank you
I don't like removing that much of the frame, either. I am considering some other ways to add speakers that does not involve removing almost the entire fuel tank area. Once I figure it out, I will undoubtedly bring it to the channel. :)
sounded like the amp was blown pre-maturely from the factory, this is unrelated but being the emperor of your own railroad world is not the easiest job ever, even Palpatine himself found it hard to rule an entire galaxy with his own subjects rebelling against him. I enjoyed the semi Star Wars reference and the video as well. Yours Always, Darth Jedi Cody.
It looked like you might have stuck the speaker in the wrong way round, but I may have made a mistake. I'd say if there isn't a problem with the decoder installation(it's running and making sound) then you probably need a better speaker............David(UK)
Wow.. nice job John..the speaker. I get a sugar cube and try that..other then that great job..do the install on n scale friday.. thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance
PULL THAT THING BACK APART RIGHT THIS INSTANT!!! Then clean the contacts. Those strips of copper (or anything copper in there) may or may not be coated (it probably isn't), you don't know. When you touch uncoated copper your finger oil usually will eventually cause it to corrode on the surface, reducing contact and performance. I had that happen to a locomotive once, the whole strip was green after being in storage. Just grab some alcohol and a cotton swab, a light swipe should get rid of the oils before they start darkening the surface. I certainly would, just to be sure there won't be conductivity problems down the road.
I have used some of the DS1240 speakers from Railmaster Hobbies in my N-scale installs & they work great especially since they are only 3.5mm high & have their own enclosure.....John
I disagree, the front of the speaker should never be completely blocked off. Any totally sealed speaker enclosure should always go around the back of the speaker and sealed along the back side of the speaker frame. If you are going to put styrene on the front, holes should be drilled in the styrene. The speaker cone has to be able to push air out of the front of the speaker. It can't do that with solid styrene over the front of it. There has to be a hole or holes to let the pressure wave(air) out. That is my understanding.
I have the same locomotive, but #7241. Was waiting to install a decoder until you posted the video. I'll be installing a digitrax decoder I already had on hand. Thanks for posting.
I don't know why you would glue the speaker face to the strip styrene. I assumed it would sound muffled, and it did. I would think as a musician you would find that particular practice counter-intuitive.
As a musician and an audio guy, I do find it counterintuitive. However, I also realize that the goal for something this small is not crystal clear high fidelity audio. I am after something that has some bass quality to it, and a 10mm speaker is going to be challenged in that department no matter what you do. Sticking it to sheet styrene the way I did provides some resonance. I have found through researching the topic that It's not uncommon in N scale sound installations to use this practice. Where space is as limited as it is inside N scale models, actual enclosures that move air often are not practical, let alone possible. :)
It depends how much surgery you want to do on a frame too! I prefer not to hack it too much. I have seen some very clever designs for enclosures that can fit in very small spaces too, so it's possible to get very good sound in N scale.
I don't understand why you didn't test the sound first? I would not have cut anything or soldered anything until testing it. Maybe I'm missing something. Then it appeared to me that you glued the speaker facing the styrene board. Again, I might not understand that speaker. Obviously you need a better speaker. You need to "vent" the speaker to let the sound out, also. Awaiting Part 2 before I dig into my GP60s. Looking forward to the solution.
Thanks PTV - I learn a lot too. I'm lucky to have watched a guy for years who was very good at this stuff, so I might have a slight head start on some folks; but there's no substitute for actually getting in there and doing the work.
@@tsgmultimedia NIIIIICE! One of my favorite TH-cam train modeling channels is based here in the South Bay!! 😎 I was looking at this video to figure out how to add a dcc decoder to my Atlas SD24. Thanks for this!!
Oh mann...all that work. I agree something is distorting the sound. It did look great pulling them railcars. Maybe a squirrel got inside before you put back the shell. 😁. Looking forward to the next episode to troubleshoot further. Good luck.
Good call on the rework John. This would bug you everytime you ran it. Sounds like it needs a diff speaker/enclosure that others have already mentioned
I enjoyed the video. One detail I wouldn’t mind seeing, or maybe you can just answer, is: was there enough room to route the wires from the speaker to the decoder between the frame and the inside of the shell?
I am pretty sure that detail is revealed in part 2 that comes out later this month. If I am mistaken, remind me and I will post a photo for you. The wired did in fact fit up through the frame.
ya ,the marker is bigger than the model ! Coo, Coo , WOW ! that"s cool that they do that.Seam's like fuel tank wght . is not needed .but what do i know. What is with the sound? seam's like it run's great.The sound? that is not right. good job on the install .good luck on the sound. wish i could help but i not know. it should sound ok. DARN!
It's a great looking and running model, it just sounds like the speaker is no good, maybe got some glue in a spot it didn't belong. I sure would like to see the sound install in the SD9 from Atlas you did a while ago. Thank you, Dave .
Like the insta,l, but you 6rught the sound is just terrible, hope you can make it better as it wanted to add sound & decoder to my old DD40, looking forward to your next video to fix it, thanks for sharing....😃
Agree with others and you about the sound. Poor speaker, or baffled issue? Have you called ESU for advice? BTW, I noticed that at the factory they wear gloves to prevent hand oils from giving poor electrical contact, and other issues. ????
It's the speaker. It will sound a lot better with a Sugar cube speaker. www.traintekllc.com/tds-supersonic-mini-sugar-cube-speaker/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwuYTYBRDsARIsAJnrUXB6CyZtjQqhPToo4xiQ6DY4xQQiSg2vBSSDehH8r1-ThD95yUHNppoaAminEALw_wcB It will sound worlds different.
Thanks for the tip Vincent. I am looking for 8mmx12mm "sugar cube" speakers that won't break the bank. Everything I have found so far is in that $10-$12 range for a single speaker. Anyone with a hot lead on tiny cubes on ebay?
I think Mike at Railroad hobbies in Roseville Ca has them for $8? His number 916-782-6067. You might try Chuck at Feather River Hobbies 415-595-3162. Hope that helps.
Who cares if they never had it, I have a a GP35 and GP60B that was custom painted into BN Executive colors, and not a single care was given to it's fictional-ness hehe Sounds like either the speaker is bad, has no bass quality to it, or the speaker wires could be bad.
I agree with your assessment of "who cares if they never had it" to a large degree because I am not modeling any specific prototype or era right now. I'm just having fun working on this stuff and running it when I have a chance. :)
I would have put thee speaker into fuel tank with grill over a series of small holes, my cut of fuel would have been circular with speaker with capton tape over magnet fits into cavity in fuel tank in chassis when snapped back onto chassis
I also agree about the speaker. Sugar cubes are the way to go in N.
I need to find some smaller cube speakers. The smallest ones I have found so far are 11mmx15mm which is too big for these installs. I don't intend to cut the fuel tank out of every N scale locomotive I modify!
sbs4dcc is where I've bought mine, he lists his smallest size as being 8 x 12 x 6 mm (that should be speaker with the baffle attached, sbs4dcc part #4069). He also has baffles (enclosures) of different shapes. The speakers aren't presoldered to any wires, but the tiny size I think makes up for inconvenience.
Excellent tips - thanks!
pull it off the styrene. make a little box for it.
Atlas also made the SD26 in Santa Fe (ATSF only) which is the same chassis ect. The decoder these models use are the same ones for Atlas's GP38's. Depending on the speaker you get, like a flat oval one, it will fit under the board just fine. Digitrax does make a sound decoder with said type of oval speaker and it fits, you will have to find room for the capacitor however (SDN144A0). If you want a real drop in decoder with sound (no need to modify), XL systems (MRC's manufacturer) makes one (XLsystemsdcc.com). Not the best sound quality from the XL ones but it does get the job done and are cheap for a sound decoder. Basically those are good for if you just want an engine sound coming from secondary units in an MU as the horn and bell aren't the best.
Drop in decoders aren't as easy as the manufacture would like you to believe. The Digitrax decoders come with the speakers wired to the circuit board. They also have a stay alive capacitor that needs to be insulated from the body. I would not remove that much of the fuel tank. If you have a friend with a drill press he could mill it out and leave the sides. Drumel probably has a drill press acc. that's inexpensive. It's helpful to me to see someone else struggle with this. Thank you
I don't like removing that much of the frame, either. I am considering some other ways to add speakers that does not involve removing almost the entire fuel tank area. Once I figure it out, I will undoubtedly bring it to the channel. :)
drill some holes into the fuel tank sound needs to get out
IT'S THE SPEAKER DUDE!!!!
Install a sugar cube and THAT will solve your issue and it needs an enclosure as well.
We will find out on the next episode! :D
sounded like the amp was blown pre-maturely from the factory, this is unrelated but being the emperor of your own railroad world is not the easiest job ever, even Palpatine himself found it hard to rule an entire galaxy with his own subjects rebelling against him. I enjoyed the semi Star Wars reference and the video as well.
Yours Always, Darth Jedi Cody.
It looked like you might have stuck the speaker in the wrong way round, but I may have made a mistake. I'd say if there isn't a problem with the decoder installation(it's running and making sound) then you probably need a better speaker............David(UK)
Wow.. nice job John..the speaker. I get a sugar cube and try that..other then that great job..do the install on n scale friday.. thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance
Thanks Lance! This install is already completed. Look for part 2 on the channel, it came out a month or two ago!
PULL THAT THING BACK APART RIGHT THIS INSTANT!!! Then clean the contacts. Those strips of copper (or anything copper in there) may or may not be coated (it probably isn't), you don't know. When you touch uncoated copper your finger oil usually will eventually cause it to corrode on the surface, reducing contact and performance. I had that happen to a locomotive once, the whole strip was green after being in storage. Just grab some alcohol and a cotton swab, a light swipe should get rid of the oils before they start darkening the surface. I certainly would, just to be sure there won't be conductivity problems down the road.
I have used some of the DS1240 speakers from Railmaster Hobbies in my N-scale installs & they work great especially since they are only 3.5mm high & have their own enclosure.....John
I think your speaker should be turned around John. You are blocking the out put of the speaker with your styrene. Russ
Russ Raetzman It's a common practice to do what John did. Probably a bad speaker
I disagree, the front of the speaker should never be completely blocked off. Any totally sealed speaker enclosure should always go around the back of the speaker and sealed along the back side of the speaker frame. If you are going to put styrene on the front, holes should be drilled in the styrene. The speaker cone has to be able to push air out of the front of the speaker. It can't do that with solid styrene over the front of it. There has to be a hole or holes to let the pressure wave(air) out. That is my understanding.
Russ Raetzman. Perhaps John will do some experimenting and let us know
I have the same locomotive, but #7241. Was waiting to install a decoder until you posted the video. I'll be installing a digitrax decoder I already had on hand. Thanks for posting.
I don't know why you would glue the speaker face to the strip styrene. I assumed it would sound muffled, and it did. I would think as a musician you would find that particular practice counter-intuitive.
As a musician and an audio guy, I do find it counterintuitive. However, I also realize that the goal for something this small is not crystal clear high fidelity audio. I am after something that has some bass quality to it, and a 10mm speaker is going to be challenged in that department no matter what you do. Sticking it to sheet styrene the way I did provides some resonance. I have found through researching the topic that It's not uncommon in N scale sound installations to use this practice. Where space is as limited as it is inside N scale models, actual enclosures that move air often are not practical, let alone possible. :)
Nice explanation. Food for thought.
It depends how much surgery you want to do on a frame too! I prefer not to hack it too much. I have seen some very clever designs for enclosures that can fit in very small spaces too, so it's possible to get very good sound in N scale.
I think you ought to have a big Medal just for even fitting the Decoder, I now know why I model O Gauge!
Believe me, I understand! I have done some work on HO models and boy even that is way easier!
Good job on the installation of the esu decoder, try using esu sugar cube speaker.it will sound awesome.
For sure! Find out how I solved the bad sound problem later this month when the second part publishes (June 16th).
I don't understand why you didn't test the sound first? I would not have cut anything or soldered anything until testing it. Maybe I'm missing something. Then it appeared to me that you glued the speaker facing the styrene board. Again, I might not understand that speaker. Obviously you need a better speaker. You need to "vent" the speaker to let the sound out, also. Awaiting Part 2 before I dig into my GP60s. Looking forward to the solution.
The speaker was stuck facing the styrene to create resonance - hoping for some low frequency response.
Ah, okay. Anxiously awaiting part 2 and hopefully a solution. Keep up the good work. I learn a lot.
Thanks PTV - I learn a lot too. I'm lucky to have watched a guy for years who was very good at this stuff, so I might have a slight head start on some folks; but there's no substitute for actually getting in there and doing the work.
Yes, I too thought you mounted speaker backwards as most speakers i have seen the narrow end is not the sound end.
change the speaker
Are you based in the South Bay (Nor Cal)? I live 5 mins from the SBHRS... what an incredible resource to have in my backyard!
Yes, and yes!
@@tsgmultimedia NIIIIICE! One of my favorite TH-cam train modeling channels is based here in the South Bay!! 😎
I was looking at this video to figure out how to add a dcc decoder to my Atlas SD24. Thanks for this!!
Oh mann...all that work. I agree something is distorting the sound. It did look great pulling them railcars. Maybe a squirrel got inside before you put back the shell. 😁. Looking forward to the next episode to troubleshoot further. Good luck.
All the info are very helpful john, I enjoyed watching these videos.
Thanks SGT. I'm just sharing my experience. As I get better at this stuff, the information will too.
I give you credit for working on N scale at this level. Not something id venture to do something like this.
It's pretty good to learn on though because I can do HO a lot easier now. :))
I've been looking forward to this. I have a UP SD24 that I love and it would be nice to have some sound for it when I do the DCC conversion.
Cool - I hope what I did will give you some ideas about how to do your own.
Mite tra a bigger speaker
Good call on the rework John. This would bug you everytime you ran it. Sounds like it needs a diff speaker/enclosure that others have already mentioned
I enjoyed the video. One detail I wouldn’t mind seeing, or maybe you can just answer, is: was there enough room to route the wires from the speaker to the decoder between the frame and the inside of the shell?
I am pretty sure that detail is revealed in part 2 that comes out later this month. If I am mistaken, remind me and I will post a photo for you. The wired did in fact fit up through the frame.
Pop the plastic fuel tank off to see (hear) if that makes a difference.
Sugar cube speakers are they way to go when it comes to N scale sound. I’ve installed numerous with quality sound.
Looking forward to part two of this outstanding and informative video. Very cool looking model too!
It sounds like the speaker you used is very poor quality.
Cool stuff enjoyed watching 😊 take care! Peace from Welland Ontario Canada 🇨🇦
Thanks very much for taking the time to watch and comment!
ya ,the marker is bigger than the model ! Coo, Coo , WOW ! that"s cool that they do that.Seam's like fuel tank wght . is not needed .but what do i know. What is with the sound? seam's like it run's great.The sound? that is not right. good job on the install .good luck on the sound. wish i could help but i not know. it should sound ok. DARN!
It's a great looking and running model, it just sounds like the speaker is no good, maybe got some glue in a spot it didn't belong. I sure would like to see the sound install in the SD9 from Atlas you did a while ago. Thank you, Dave .
THANK YOU...for sharing. Maybe lean towards a different speaker?
Need a better speaker and build a speaker box
Like the insta,l, but you 6rught the sound is just terrible, hope you can make it better as it wanted to add sound & decoder to my old DD40, looking forward to your next video to fix it, thanks for sharing....😃
It sounds like the speaker is crap ,my sound a lot better than that
Agree with others and you about the sound. Poor speaker, or baffled issue? Have you called ESU for advice? BTW, I noticed that at the factory they wear gloves to prevent hand oils from giving poor electrical contact, and other issues. ????
The next episode details how I solved the problem. I did, in fact, contact ESU! Good call!
It's the speaker. It will sound a lot better with a Sugar cube speaker. www.traintekllc.com/tds-supersonic-mini-sugar-cube-speaker/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwuYTYBRDsARIsAJnrUXB6CyZtjQqhPToo4xiQ6DY4xQQiSg2vBSSDehH8r1-ThD95yUHNppoaAminEALw_wcB It will sound worlds different.
Thanks for the tip Vincent. I am looking for 8mmx12mm "sugar cube" speakers that won't break the bank. Everything I have found so far is in that $10-$12 range for a single speaker. Anyone with a hot lead on tiny cubes on ebay?
I think Mike at Railroad hobbies in Roseville Ca has them for $8? His number 916-782-6067. You might try Chuck at Feather River Hobbies 415-595-3162. Hope that helps.
Thanks for more tips :))
Well since this is part 1, I am assuming you will be keeping us in suspense till part 2
Sorry about that! It took me a while to get things working as well, so there was some suspense on my part too! :D
Who cares if they never had it, I have a a GP35 and GP60B that was custom painted into BN Executive colors, and not a single care was given to it's fictional-ness hehe
Sounds like either the speaker is bad, has no bass quality to it, or the speaker wires could be bad.
I agree with your assessment of "who cares if they never had it" to a large degree because I am not modeling any specific prototype or era right now. I'm just having fun working on this stuff and running it when I have a chance. :)