I've just watched about 10 honing videos to check my self taught practice and was getting worried till now. people sliding hone in dry and not spinning and then holding it static or spinning in one spot stopping then dragging out. na I'm on the right track and this video is far shorter and more informative than many others it appears. thank you
Thank you sir. Best and clearest video I’ve seen. Thank you the explanation of what the cross hatching means. I never new that. Also, a big thank you for the closeup of the finished job. All my cylinders look exactly like the one you did. I can sleep easy tonight.
In the past I've actually set small engines in the parts cleaner and let the fluid run inside the cylinders while honing, worked very well for me. Just make sure you clean everything good with hot soapy water!!!!!
I'm using a plateau hone tool made by Lisle to remove flat spots and vertical scratches/grooves using 80, 180 & 280 grit stones on a Hyundai 2.4 I4. The engine has thin steel sleeves pressed into the aluminum block. I don't want to take away too much material from the steel sleeves via the honing process. Would leaving a shallow and narrow vertical groove in the bore effect compression and oil burn that much? Thanks in advance!
How would you get a cross hatch pattern of 60 degrees for some Honda and Porsche Fiber Reinforced Material cylinders which is stated in their FSM? Would you even hone those cylinders?
I just paid good money for machine work, including bore .030 over and torque plate hone. My Mahle forged 4032 pistons require 3 thou piston to wall clearance and I’ve measured as small as 2 thou at bottom of bores. Also crosshatch levels off from what appears 30-40 degrees throughout except at bottom. I’m guessing the machinist didn’t run the hone deep enough?
@@GregWellwood how to find rings specs grit. Have had a bad headgasket and was some rust (# little ) . Don't want to put out cylinders . Is it possible to clean this little rust without putting out the cylinder and what sand paper can use
I would use the proper honing stone grit recommended by your ring manufacturer. I'm not sure you mean to use sand paper, I wouldn't use sand paper. Corrosion that has pitted the cylinder is a gamble. It might seal "good enough," or it might not seal well at all - how lucky do you feel? Hone it and see how it looks.
the ball hone is called a dunny brush hone in australia and is very good for small imperfections and deglazing,but go to deep and you will lose some balls .
Some folks would dump a teaspoon of Borax down the intake while it's running to "seat" the rings, but I'm not brave enough to do that myself. Sounds like an interesting experiment!
@@GregWellwood Total seal makes a powder that can be applied to the cylinder for the purpose of fast break in for rings. Drag engines do not have much time for break in, so this might help
The point of oil is to clean the stones and wash the grit away. Not all oils flush well though and I see many hand honed blocks a year that I get to fix. The lesson of the vid is fine but often blocks are over honed, horrible finish, honed to large of a diameter or simply a block that should have been bored and honed to a new size instead of trying to just hand job it. Before I bought my Sunnen cv-616 power stroke hone, I did my honing by hand. But I set up a well fitted tub and had a constant stream of oil going. The finish difference is very noticable from squirting some WD-40 to flood oiling. I rough bored my blocks 0.004" undersize and then would hone till finish diameter. Process tookfour stone grits and a platue brushing in the end. That 0.004" would take my about 4 hours to complete on v8 block. With my big hone I do it in about an hour and every cylinder comes out the same size and finish with much ease. I don't miss the manual honing lol. But I also hone about 50 block a year.
Yes. Although, if you stay there long enough, you can potentially make the cylinder too large. But that would have to be quite a long time. Have a look once you get started and really try to get the pattern right early on. Then continue honing until it looks consistent.
I would. The cylinders get sort of "polished" as they wear in, and without breaking the glaze (A "Glaze Breaker" is another name for a hone), the new rings will not "cut" in and seat properly.
@@tomdangerfield1532 Oh. Missed that. I don't know. If the rings move around while it runs, I don't think it would matter. If they tend to stay in one place, it might. I have found that when I spiral rings onto the pistons, they move. Only one way to find out!!!
Some folks would snap the throttle wide open while dumping a teaspoon of borax into the engine. Apparently seats the rings for you. I'm too chicken to try.
That Shop Teacher Guy brill thanks, the only reason I ask is I can’t imagine every time you take the cylinders off (e.g. to change a head gasket) you have to hone and fit new rings!
I need to enlarge the inside bore of a flange bearing from 25mm to just over an inch. Remove just over 0.015748 of an inch. I was thinking about using a wheel cylinder hone. Does this sound feasible?
If you can measure to six decimal places, you have my blessing. I *have* used wheel cylinder hone to enlarge bearing races in the past, but it takes a long time because the races are usually hardened.
Your ring instructions or ring supplier will tell you which grit to use. Different ring materials require different finishes. RPM will depend on how fast you stroke it; I find I am less accurate the faster I spin the drill, but you might have better skillz than me.
Thank you sir. Very informative and educative. But after the honing, do I need to clean the tool? If so, can break cleaner damage the stones? I've seen some guys that use plain old warm soapy water to clean it, but I am afraid that the tool rusts over time and end up scratching the bore if I decide to use the tool after a long period of time if a small piece of rust breaks off.
Hello! In your experience, How far can be a cylinder honed without need a oversized rings? I plan buy the tool and hone my bike's & bug cilinders has well.
I don't like to go by opinion, I prefer to go by specification. If the cylinder is ~in~ spec but the ring gaps aren't, then see about getting oversize or file-to-fit rings. If the cylinder is ~out~ of spec, you need to deal with that first. No honing or oversize rings will fix a worn cylinder. Measure it. If you can't afford to fix it, don't measure it - just hone it, ring it, run thick oil, and fuggedaboudit. It will work. For a while.
I have never used a drill press for honing. I have always used a hand drill. With the rigid hone, I hang the drill on a spring from a hook up above so I don't have to hold the weight of the drill, just move it (I use a fairly heavy drill for that). For the ball hone (glaze breaker / dingleberry) I just use a hand drill. The ball hone is by far my favourite for a cheap rebuild.
Sometimes you can get rings where the gaps are made too small. You then file them to the correct specification. There are ring-filing machines you can buy that do this best, and some good videos on TH-cam that show how it works. If you are assembling a used cylinder, be sure to measure the ring gap at the bottom the cylinder where the bore is the smallest.
I remember my shop teacher say 30 degrees crosshatch. Your video brought all those memories back. Thank you. B
I've just watched about 10 honing videos to check my self taught practice and was getting worried till now. people sliding hone in dry and not spinning and then holding it static or spinning in one spot stopping then dragging out. na I'm on the right track and this video is far shorter and more informative than many others it appears. thank you
Thanks! And you're welcome!
Thank you sir. Best and clearest video I’ve seen. Thank you the explanation of what the cross hatching means. I never new that. Also, a big thank you for the closeup of the finished job. All my cylinders look exactly like the one you did. I can sleep easy tonight.
5his is just what I needed thanks for taking the time to upload
That was super educative and simple to understand
In the past I've actually set small engines in the parts cleaner and let the fluid run inside the cylinders while honing, worked very well for me. Just make sure you clean everything good with hot soapy water!!!!!
Thanks for helping me hone in on this topic!
I see what you did there! :-)
Most awesome video on honing!!
I'm using a plateau hone tool made by Lisle to remove flat spots and vertical scratches/grooves using 80, 180 & 280 grit stones on a Hyundai 2.4 I4. The engine has thin steel sleeves pressed into the aluminum block. I don't want to take away too much material from the steel sleeves via the honing process. Would leaving a shallow and narrow vertical groove in the bore effect compression and oil burn that much? Thanks in advance!
Muchas gracias 👍
How would you get a cross hatch pattern of 60 degrees for some Honda and Porsche Fiber Reinforced Material cylinders which is stated in their FSM? Would you even hone those cylinders?
so how do you do an in frame when the crank is still in block. I eally want to know how to keep it clean down below, like the crank
I put rags over the crank, journal at the bottom, hone, then flush the mother-loving snot out of everything with ATF, and hope for the best.
Nice video everything he said is good advice.
really good explanation!
Hi. How would you make a roller maize mill to produce sifted maize meal
I'm not sure. It sounds corny to me just thinking about it.
I just paid good money for machine work, including bore .030 over and torque plate hone. My Mahle forged 4032 pistons require 3 thou piston to wall clearance and I’ve measured as small as 2 thou at bottom of bores. Also crosshatch levels off from what appears 30-40 degrees throughout except at bottom. I’m guessing the machinist didn’t run the hone deep enough?
Is it necessary to finish the process with a different grid ?( 400 to 600 )
No. You hone it with the grit that the rings are designed for - check your ring manufacturer.
@@GregWellwood how to find rings specs grit. Have had a bad headgasket and was some rust (# little ) . Don't want to put out cylinders . Is it possible to clean this little rust without putting out the cylinder and what sand paper can use
I would use the proper honing stone grit recommended by your ring manufacturer. I'm not sure you mean to use sand paper, I wouldn't use sand paper. Corrosion that has pitted the cylinder is a gamble. It might seal "good enough," or it might not seal well at all - how lucky do you feel? Hone it and see how it looks.
the ball hone is called a dunny brush hone in australia and is very good for small imperfections and deglazing,but go to deep and you will lose some balls .
What if you use ring break in powder instead of a cross hatch on the cylinders
Some folks would dump a teaspoon of Borax down the intake while it's running to "seat" the rings, but I'm not brave enough to do that myself. Sounds like an interesting experiment!
@@GregWellwood Total seal makes a powder that can be applied to the cylinder for the purpose of fast break in for rings. Drag engines do not have much time for break in, so this might help
The point of oil is to clean the stones and wash the grit away. Not all oils flush well though and I see many hand honed blocks a year that I get to fix. The lesson of the vid is fine but often blocks are over honed, horrible finish, honed to large of a diameter or simply a block that should have been bored and honed to a new size instead of trying to just hand job it. Before I bought my Sunnen cv-616 power stroke hone, I did my honing by hand. But I set up a well fitted tub and had a constant stream of oil going. The finish difference is very noticable from squirting some WD-40 to flood oiling. I rough bored my blocks 0.004" undersize and then would hone till finish diameter. Process tookfour stone grits and a platue brushing in the end. That 0.004" would take my about 4 hours to complete on v8 block. With my big hone I do it in about an hour and every cylinder comes out the same size and finish with much ease. I don't miss the manual honing lol. But I also hone about 50 block a year.
So if it's your first time honing, and you do not get a good pattern, you can start over and hone it again until the pattern is satisfactory?
Yes. Although, if you stay there long enough, you can potentially make the cylinder too large. But that would have to be quite a long time. Have a look once you get started and really try to get the pattern right early on. Then continue honing until it looks consistent.
Very good
Nice vid👍. Do you have to hone the cylinders even if your not going to replace the rings?
I would. The cylinders get sort of "polished" as they wear in, and without breaking the glaze (A "Glaze Breaker" is another name for a hone), the new rings will not "cut" in and seat properly.
That Shop Teacher Guy. But would you have to do that even if your keeping the same rings ?
@@tomdangerfield1532 Oh. Missed that. I don't know. If the rings move around while it runs, I don't think it would matter. If they tend to stay in one place, it might. I have found that when I spiral rings onto the pistons, they move. Only one way to find out!!!
Some folks would snap the throttle wide open while dumping a teaspoon of borax into the engine. Apparently seats the rings for you. I'm too chicken to try.
That Shop Teacher Guy brill thanks, the only reason I ask is I can’t imagine every time you take the cylinders off (e.g. to change a head gasket) you have to hone and fit new rings!
How many rpm’s on the drill do you recommend?
Um...... It will depend on how quickly you stroke. It's all a balancing act. I have a speed that works for "-me-" and it's relatively slow.
I need to enlarge the inside bore of a flange bearing from 25mm to just over an inch. Remove just over 0.015748 of an inch. I was thinking about using a wheel cylinder hone. Does this sound feasible?
If you can measure to six decimal places, you have my blessing. I *have* used wheel cylinder hone to enlarge bearing races in the past, but it takes a long time because the races are usually hardened.
@@GregWellwood Hi, I was wondering what grit stones you are using and at what rpm? Thanks!
Your ring instructions or ring supplier will tell you which grit to use. Different ring materials require different finishes. RPM will depend on how fast you stroke it; I find I am less accurate the faster I spin the drill, but you might have better skillz than me.
Thank you sir. Very informative and educative. But after the honing, do I need to clean the tool? If so, can break cleaner damage the stones? I've seen some guys that use plain old warm soapy water to clean it, but I am afraid that the tool rusts over time and end up scratching the bore if I decide to use the tool after a long period of time if a small piece of rust breaks off.
I spray mine down with brake cleaner when I'm done.
What are the importance of hatch angle?
Sujeesh Cbe piston rings break in and oil retention on walls
Nice! Thanks
honing is cool
Hello! In your experience, How far can be a cylinder honed without need a oversized rings? I plan buy the tool and hone my bike's & bug cilinders has well.
I don't like to go by opinion, I prefer to go by specification. If the cylinder is ~in~ spec but the ring gaps aren't, then see about getting oversize or file-to-fit rings. If the cylinder is ~out~ of spec, you need to deal with that first. No honing or oversize rings will fix a worn cylinder. Measure it. If you can't afford to fix it, don't measure it - just hone it, ring it, run thick oil, and fuggedaboudit. It will work. For a while.
Thanks! Have you used your honing tool with a drillpress?
I have never used a drill press for honing. I have always used a hand drill. With the rigid hone, I hang the drill on a spring from a hook up above so I don't have to hold the weight of the drill, just move it (I use a fairly heavy drill for that). For the ball hone (glaze breaker / dingleberry) I just use a hand drill. The ball hone is by far my favourite for a cheap rebuild.
hello @gwellwood quick question, what did you meant by filing? if the rings are already out of specs... im in doubt ?
Sometimes you can get rings where the gaps are made too small. You then file them to the correct specification. There are ring-filing machines you can buy that do this best, and some good videos on TH-cam that show how it works. If you are assembling a used cylinder, be sure to measure the ring gap at the bottom the cylinder where the bore is the smallest.