ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2018
- Sounds good now after alignment using sweep generator and oscilloscope with the Jason JJ Cruz ABDL Hudl and Mulberry method of redundant analytical and psychological intermediate frequency stratification alignment method
- ตลก
No worries Mr Shango, you did a perfect job there aligning that old Nordmende, no Kraut radio repairman could have done better ;-) For starters, the narrow bandwidth just is so on a lot of those old tube jobbies, probably to prevent crosstalk from adjacent stations interfering because in Europe the FM band channels are spaced in 50 kHz steps and not in 200 kHz steps as in the US.
Your asymmetrical trace on the ratio detector signal of the EABC80 tube is because it has only nine pins to accommodate for 4 systems in 1 tube: diode, duodiode,and triode. Due to this there is a compromise solution where the cathode of one of the 2 ratio detector diodes is internally connected to the cathode of the AM detector as well as the cathode of the triode section and leads out only with 1 pin, which is grounded. Had they used a twin diode like the 6AL5 it would have enabled a totally symmetrical construction with corresponding signal on the scope.
Cheers from Germany from a fellow "Kraut techie" :-)
How do they expect you to perform radio repair without having music playing? On a lighter note, when I heard "Feliz Navidad", it brought back a funny memory of a former co-worker I worked with in the 90's when we worked at a grocery store. He was in the freezer aisle working with Christmas music playing over the PA. A lady with about a 4 year old child comes down the aisle while "Feliz Navidad" was playing. Then the child said to his mother "Mommy, why is that guy singing "Fleas on a Dog"? The co-worker said he laughed for a good hour.
Merry Christmas Shango :) Been listing non-stop to L.A. Oldies for the last 7 weeks on the computer here in Sweden. Nice video content. Keep up creating videos.
I’ve never seen an IF can that could be so damn stubborn ! You got skills Shango ! Merry Christmas !
Shango, thanks for all of your unique restoration videos some helpful tips. Happy holidays & happy new year.
Alot of this was way over my head..
Merry Christmas shango...
Keep up your awsome work..
Nordmende, that was german high end in the 60er! Thank you for your videos and happy holydays from germany (100 Miles from Bremen, where that Radio is build)
I want a coffee for this man. You sir...you sir.
That sounds alive in comparison to the way it was.
Thank you for the great videos, you are a talented man.
Someone said you don't like christmas, so have a happy year end lol.
I picked up one of those little red OScopes several years back. I ordered it in kit form with the Plexiglas case. While some complain about the case, it has saved my unit numerous times from drops, and getting banged around in our motor home while we were on the road. I also purchased the smaller unit in a white plastic case. It has a bit different OS but I think it will serve the same purpose in the long run. Before buying those, I found a video on how to build a mini-scope in an Altoids can using an Arduino, While not as versatile as the other 2 it does serve it's purpose as well when working with audio circuits. In between, I found a plan for a scope built using your sound card. This consisted of a couple of 7805's one for each channel and some resistors and caps. Not a complicated build, it did work fairly well and using a laptop screen gives you a lot of room for read out, and I coupled it with a bit of free software for Windows. Fearing damaging my sound card, I picked up one of those cheap Chinese USB sound cards to hook up to my computer. I guess, overall any of my cheap crappy oscilloscopes could be used to scope out audio circuits, but as you said, none of them would work well if you need them in the repair of, say a ham set.
Now that's sounding better each time, Nice radio That's a keeper!!!
Great job!! I learned a lot about how to do a sophisticated alignment of an FM stereo receiver, and how to pick out subtle component problems. I've done mono assignments, but never this. Not for the technical lightweight, for sure!
Merry Christmas shango066, always love you videos.
sweeping IF xmas eve -woohoo!!
-cheers mate
Nice series explaining some quirks about German radios, Christmas Merry Shango !
Merry Christmas Shango066, Have a Great Holiday and a Great New Year!!
Merry Christmas shango
Pretty awesome seeing alining trimming with the laboratory scope
Merry Christmas to you the radio sounds good
Don't let them get to you! Happy holidays and take care!!!
I dig the picture in picture, hope you keep using it.
Still say that would be a beautiful radio with complete restoration...
42:06 - Is it me or does it sound great even through the modern phone and TH-cam compression. Sounds awesome Shango! Well done 👍🏻
That sounds good wow awesome record player
Radio sounds great good job shango.
I respect you tenacity
Thanks for explaining why you use live stations rather than broadcasting your personal content. Totally agreed.
shango066 have happy holidays/Christmas/New year/Valentine/Easter/... well you get the picture ;-)
merry christmas shango i hope youtube doesn't ruin things completely
16:35 I like how it’s quite between stations. Some kinda engineering magic I suppose. Thanks Shango for the 5’ver good show. 😊
Merry Christmas ! directly from Portugal. i will not have time to watch the video today but looking forward for seeing what was the outcome of the Nordmende
Happy Holidays Shango
Merry Christmas Shango, thanks for the early present (3pm on the 24th here in the UK). I'm intrigued by the JJ Cruz/Hudl/Mulberry method though, please tell us more... Much more.
Merry Chirstmas Shango!
Great video Shango.
Merry Christmas from Philippines
the go to jazz station was KKGO in socal years ago,back in the day. kpfk also when they are pacifica radio
Only shango066 could turn this pigs ear of a radio into a silk purse, awsome crimbo video, thanks for sharing.
merry Christmas to one and all...
Merry Christmas Shago & all.
51:30 - Well said and appreciated. 💪
marry xmas!! thanks for the video! there is only one fixing chanel for me!
Merry Christmas! Thank you for making all the videos, I really enjoy them, every single one for the last years. Please don't let youtube stop you too much (easier said than done maybe...).
Perhaps you can have a setup with one of these FM transmitters (for getting your MP3s playing in the car stereo) to have your own copyright-free content (playing from the youtube audio library) to demonstrate the radios? Or does your equipment allow to feed in audio an modulate it? If you connect it directly to the radio, it should not be a transmitter for more than the radio itself. I don't mean to use it while troubleshooting, just to demonstrate it in the end for a longer time period.
I remember searching for a replacement for a EABC80 (gone to air) for one of my own radios and seeing at least 2 amrican tubetypes listed, but at that time it was nearly impossible to get one at reasonable price. I would think when it gets weaker it does not distort, because the diodes age at the same time...but perhaps it's not that linear.
Greetings from Germany, Jan
P.S.: If you want to have a look at a German portable radio, I'm willing to send you one or too ;)
I have a bunch of Grundigs and Telefunkens and other German radios but I like the Nordmende best for sound quality. I have a big table Nordmende in mint condition in my music room.
I worked on a similar Nordmende for a friend, AM worked great, had the same problem with FM. Never did figure it out.
I love that record player I wish I lived closer I’d take that counsel of your hands
@Mark Godfrey lol gotta love grammar and auto correct
For what it's worth, I was reading "Radio Electronics" October 1959 and on page 36 there is an ad for an Stereo Multiplex Adapter by Fisher selling for $79.50 plus $12.95 for the cabinet.
It said in part, "it makes possible the reception of FM stereo broadcasts produced with the Crosby multiplex system. The MPX-10 can be connected to any FM tuner with a multiplex output" . You can get the October 1959 edition of Radio Electronics for free at archive.org. If you want, I'll give you the direct link. Belated Happy Holidays ...
I'm stopping the video at 13 min to write this out:
Ok, to align an FM RF-IF, you need to tune alternate LC's to frequencies about 40KHz above and below the center frequency (stagger-tuning). [You do not tune ANY LC exactly to the center (10.7) frequency.] Doing this results in an overall lowering of stage gain of possibly 15dB (-15dB down), but widens the IF bandwidth. There is (supposed to be) enough gain in the IF section to make up for this 'loss', as well as make the FM detector go into limiting, which quiets the response, while 'detecting' the FM signal.
So, you need to be able to either precisely see and control the marker in order to show 40KHz points above/below the 10.7, or know how to approximate the result by eye and experience.
An LC circuit always peaks out at its resonant frequency. It's Q is also relatively narrow, depending upon the L/C ratio, and is normally NOT designed to be as wide as you need for 75KHz-wide FM detection. It is the staggered tuning in the IF stage, plus the adequate gain through the tuner/mixer plus IF sections that gets you the desired wide-bandwidth display and input to the FM detector. Then if the LC in the detector circuit is fine, you can balance the detector's "S" curve easily. But all needs to be working well.
All of this needs to be done rather carefully either with accurate marking, or just experience. Any individual LC circuit that doesn't show normal peaking response as you tune through it, needs to be investigated (bad cap, associated R, tube, etc).
So, if necessary you need to go through each LC tuning circuit, from the tuner/mixer through the IF sections, checking that each one, by itself, is responding normally, then you stagger-tune them using markers, experience, or luck/time, and check the detector at the end.
This also applies to FM-sound of TV receivers. Now back to the video.
That was the end result, it took me while to get it there. It was so jacked up from the previous alignment attempt with a signal generator
merry christmas.
I love your videos Shango066
Arf
Merry Christmas to all !!!!!!
Merry Christmas shango066. Xxoo
You could try lowering the Q of the tuned circuit by fitting a resistor across the IF tuned circuit. I would start with 10k and go from there.
However it is a lovely set . You are so lucky to find such a gem.
I was thinking that, but then I wondered if that would reduce the gain.
Of course having known good working/sounding tubes to swap out would be very beneficial.
Kerri Chandler sounding great! :-)
24:37 is the “Meatspin” played on a Normande Sterling console radio.
No-mend Nordmende. As The great Les Lawry-Johns once said in (Practical)Television magazine
I wish Les could take a look at this one. Someone once suggested Les Awry-Jones lol. Loved his later series of tales from the workshop
Hi shango, I'm glad you got it working better. As soon as you showed the discriminator output it was obvious something wasn't right. It looked like the negative part was missing, like one half diode or coil wasn't working. That got better but still not right, leading me to believe there is still a problem. Just a wild guess, did you check the dc resistance of both coils (at the socket if its a broken trace) and the shorting switches? Anyways, merry Christmas.
Look at all the work this took, can't imagine the repair bill
Christmas present from Shango066, thanks!!
I bet that thing sounds great in person
It's Hank Hill's Nordmende Narrow Urethra Radio...
happy shortest day of the year day !!!
Hey Shang, what are your future plans for this radio? I think that is a pretty cool radio and am just wondering what you are going to do with it when you are through with it... Thanks for the video...
Part 5 for the new year!
Hopefully the last, this damn German radio is puzzling me too
It's done homie, it's over. Time to move on to something else like a black-and-white TV with a mouse Nest inside
shango066 hahaha that’s funny to find crap 💩 in a tv and seeing it work again but I prefer the color sets but if you do a black and white tv do a super old one ☝️ I like those lol 😂
@@shango066 I can go with that
@@abc-ni9uw Pakistan?
Try widening the discriminator with a 22K resistor.
Replace the electrolytic that is positive ground, on the center tap.
erry All from Sun Valley [aka Burbank north from a former 1st class ticket holder.]
Would it not be practical to add 100% modulation to th 10.7MHz signal (if your sweep marker gen allows) to have what the tuned if needs to pass for alignment?
Not familiar with those sweep marker units, but I thought you also have a more full functioned signal generator.
Yea, youtube has gotten ridiculous lately. I lost my "partner" status last February for not having an active enough channel. Lost monitization on everything. It was a hassle to upload youtube videos anyways because of where I live and how bad the bandwidth is. But that one was just a nail in the coffin for me anyways.
They want to become more commercialized and profitable like the Netflix model.
That's a shame... I like the radio videos, sad to see them go :c
Do what you can with the radio turned down. You can always do voiceover as well and edit long sections down. It sucks, but it's about all you can do.
Suggestion about the copyright restrictions. Pick up an old ham HF radio at a swap meet. Make the modification to allow it to transmit in the AM broadcast band. Use a load resistor instead of an antenna to keep the output down to legal limits, and use that as your test station in stead of live broadcast stations.
He can already easily do it with his HP generators. They have inputs for broadcasting AM and FM but as he said in this video this is not a "real life" condition then. I though about that "broadcast by yourself" too but he's right...not the same conditions
This guy puts the great back into British, find him at. vintage electrics repair
This radio has a very weird last FM IF/discriminator circuit. In most FM radios, the last IF tube is a pentode that is operated with a low plate voltage so that clipping occurs even on weak signals. AGC is not used. Neither side of the balancing capacitor is grounded; instead, "test point D" formed by the two series-connected resistors would be grounded.
In this radio, the designers chose to run the last IF amplifier tube plate at a high voltage, but they used a pentode that allows access to the suppressor grid. I do not understand what performance advantage this would have versus the more conventional hard limiter setup.
Hello mr shango066, did you solve the problem? I have a Nordmende Turandot with the same IF cans type and the same problem, distortion at FM center. I have tried adjust the IF by S curve, by bell curve, by voltmeter, by ear and nothing seems to workout... the distortion is very clear when I inject a modulated tone into the ecc85 and scope the output, the tone signal gets all messed up as I peak the IF cores.
Were there a couple companies who manufactured the many brands of these German radios, I find it hard to believe there were actually a dozen companies that built their own radios.
I know my question is off-topic, but every time I see you working on a german radio I ask myself, why these radio sets, originally developped as all-wave radios, lack of the low AM band (148 - 184 kHz) in the USA. Instead, to keep the number of keys identical, either SW was split up in two bands or they got separate phono and tape inputs. Hasn't there been a low AM band in the USA? If so: How was cable radio operated in the USA?
Ridiculous. What about"fair use"? TH-cam doesn't understand?
Happy Holidays Shango!!!
(Merry Christmas if you want)
It's quite apparent and obvious - it is about taking away creators content and the pennies the content creator of said video earned per 1,000,000 views on their videos and giving it to the "artist" which is really the corporate "entertainment" industry - we know the artists don't receive SQUAT. This will be a dying format in due time..
Maybe so. However if I hear a song, and I like it, I may buy it. I have been inspired to buy CD's by hearing a sample of the song in a video.
Nordemende has a ratio detector and I'm remembering that the Q of each side of a ratio detector must be the same since it uses opposite polarity diode demodulators. Any imbalance makes the output (s-curve) asymmetrical. Looking at the schematic isn't intuitive but alignment of the FM IF and component values will effect the total result. Wonder if there is a way in the IF alignment to measure at the output of the ratio detector. Also wonder if there is a problem with IF transformers in this set. You've made good progress. Thanks for this video.
Dear Shango, I am restoring old radio's for a long time right now (learned a lot from your channel while i am working on European sets, mostly German). But why are tubed radio's so quiet between FM stations while transistor radio's shout me almost deaf with noise?
It was made for the European market which includes the UK which uses a narrower bandwidth for each station, what about replacing that FM detector with a DSP based FM detector where the 10.7MHZ signal goes through a Tayloe mixer (Clock to drive the Tayloe mixer would be 42.8MHZ) to yield the I/Q signals to be processed in a DSP chip to yield the audio.
As an experiment, pull out the detector valve and push a couple of germanium diodes into the socket and see how that sweeps.
I love your babbling. Sad when creators such as yourself put out better content than network television.
Nice
Bad detector tube, weak mixer tube... maybe part of the problem is that it's just a very high hour set with a bunch of weak tubes. If all your IF stages are weak that would no doubt add up. There might still be more to it, but to find out you'd have to dig into the IF stages and find out whether perhaps one of them is acting up. Or, of course, whether there is an undue amount of loss in the RF section, whatever that would mean for a set like this.
shango066 I have heard your name might be Brendan. To you and Family thank you for all and every one of your Videos Happy Christmas
Merry Christmas Brendan!
Dragen, where did you hear Brendan
I used my connections with the state department and found out all about you Sgt. Dragen Shango - thank you for your service, repairing televisions in South Vietnam 1969-72.
@@audubon5425 :D ....its actually really easy to find Brendans information on the net, just saying
@@shango066 I was reading some reply's to your videos and some people called you Brendan sorry about that Happy New Year
Perhaps you need to sweep between 80 kHz below and above the 10.7 Mhz IF carrier. This will expand the peak with a flat top and help look at signal up close. You may also want to trigger the scope so you see only one cycle on the screen.
BTW, what Nordmende model is this radio, and what is the Sams Photofact number. Thanks.
You changed the station before I could hear "Fleas on my dog"! (at 39:17)
I know you hate Xmas and I hate it too but happy Xmas and this has made my day.
I was about to take some drugs because I'm bored outta my head but now I can get a natural high from watching my main man shango
Haaaa, airplanes, leaf blowers, and 60 hertz signal, it just doesn't get any better than this!
That problem looks to be a stumper, but well done anyhow, sounds much better!
TH-cam's odd, they're killing their own platform...
What’s the name of that song that was playing on that Record
what central frequency do you input on sweep generator to work to fine tuner?
10.7 MHZ is the center frequency.
Why aren't you tweaking the top 4 slugs? I believe that will allow you to stagger-tune and get a wider bandwidth.
Those are for AM coils
When was the last time your sweep generator was serviced and aligned?
Using a B&K TV Analyzer as an FM sweep generator...
You don't have any 6AK8s? You could also try a 6Г3П (6G3P) Soviet tube...
B&K 415 is set up for 10.7 MHZ sweep alignment. It was sold at the time FM was hitting mainstream in the US and was probably a value-added selling point.
I get it with using music that isnt the most popular with everybody. Teckmastwe PEB I use for bass, avai Maria for clarity of vibrato, Katy perry/gaga for my female vocals and for Male vocal and every damn instrument I use mexi tejano. We aren't all techmoan with dedicated test tapes n such....an thY dosen't really apply because unless you have a good am/FM transmitter it's a moot point and might as well just sit around 1-3 kHz tone and deal with it.
This isn't a frickin' music channel. It's educational. Shakespeare was right.
please check C2 on the Ratio Dec Stage.
73 from Germany
"You better watch out ... " high voltage on the B+ Happy Christmas to you and greetings from Belgium. (I hate Xmas probably as much as you do, but anyway.) BTW, regarding the copyright issues with TH-cam, consider uploading your video's to an alternative streaming service like Vimeo.
ON THE NORMENDE CONSOLE SOMETIMES THE PUSH BUTTONS ARE SKETCHY AND NEED TO BE DE OXED COPIUSLY! AS IN UNPLUG IT PRAY IT AND LET IT RUN OFF INTO THE SINK IT'S CLEANED UP AND ALLOWED VOLTAGE TO BE PASSED THROUGH THEM IN SOME CASES THE SWITCHES HAVE DONE NOTHING PRIOR TO DE OX IT SO DON'T DISCOUNT THE VIRTUES OF IT
If the previous coil to which it’s coupled is not tuned quite right then the marker on the S curve won’t be in the middle, (on the base line).
Hello! Why is there a lower peak at 30:00 and not at 34:00?
Are you near van nuys or whitman air port?