Barnes speaking fact. Basically saying England players want to do too much rather than just focusing on their roles and sticking to the basics. Seems like they all want to be the star player, which is impacting the performances and results.
You also have to blame the manager… every other team except Portugal trusts the squad to win games. In England, the manager wants the game winners to be his favourites that he picks all the time. Weak manager. It’s the reason spurs lost the champions league final. Poch unable to make the tough decision in Kane and now Southgate did the same. Starting a clearly injured player instead of using the squad with two fit strikers properly. Spain took off Rodri instead of playing him injured. Every game the Spanish manager made changes to his key men to give them a break and to use the full squad. Every game Morata played 60 minutes. The young wide players rarely finished games.
@@TheWallethead Felt a bit like the old England this tournament where we were trying to fit every star player in whether they fitted into the team or not. Weirdly Southgate was fairly good at building a more cohesive unit when he came in but feels like he's gone backwards this tournament. Like when he came in he did what was best for the team by getting rid of Wazza and making Kane the focal point. I like a lot of what Southgate has done for England but it definitely feels like the end now. Might be time to look at switching up the striker as well. Kane is great at getting his teams to finals but he's been shocking in every final he's played. Something in his head seems to go wrong. Keep him in the squad if he's still scoring for Bayern but time to stop being wholly reliant on him.
@@monkey39128 He bows down to pressure from the media, I remember he was criticized for picking players out of form, (although they had experience) so he changed and picked players in form (but without experience), he was criticized for putting Foden on the bench, so he played him every game despite him not producing the performances, then he was criticized for playing Foden on the wing, then he played him through the centre and shafted Bellingham on the left. I think he just turns on the TV and gets his line up from Sky
Hang on, are you saying you’d drop Kane in the champions league final if you was Poch??? Kane has scored over 200 goals for Tottenham. That’s more than spurs whole 11
Refreshing to hear someone talk actual football instead of all these emotional nonsense. It's so refreshing hearing someone who actually played and understands the game.
Wow... This is the most intelligent description of football positions and what's required of that position, that i have ever heard on this show. Can we just Mr Barnes teaches football every week.
Rodri gets too much credit for this stat bc ppp forget to consider that more than half the reasons he won those 71 games is bc he is playing with Kdb haaland foden and many other stars. Not to mention pep. Bc we all know he would not have that stat playing with Chelsea or Villa. I feel that part gets lost in stats like this. Pep coached all 71 of those games.
@@theach84 Only thing is, City have lost all their Prem games over the last 3 seasons only when Rodri didn’t play. Odd that, isn’t it? Seems a bit more than mere coincidence. He’s also just got player of the Euros. No Pep. No City team mates. Hmm… Seems that he’s some player after all. More than you, with your jaundiced perspective, are prepared to give him credit for. Too bad.
@@really8930 even if everything you say here is correct, it still does not change the point I made, take away pep, kdb haaland, foden, Gundogan….and many other players and that record does not stand. Put Rodri in Chelsea for the last 3 years and that record does not happen. Just pointing to the idea, that part is usually overlooked when this stat is presented. No need to sound salty it is not meant to be criticism but pointing out an easily missed part of the stat. It just so happens every team he plays in is stacked. It’s funny Atletico when they were at peak, might be the worst team he has played in and Atletico were more than a decent team.
@@theach84 Your point is a bad one. You say “take away Pep” and many others and the record does not happen. You are stating the blindingly obvious, lol. Football is a team sport. It’s not golf. It’s not boxing. It’s not Formula One racing. No one has ever said that Rodri did the unbeaten run all on his own. It’s not merely the stats, though. It’s how City perform when he plays to how they occasionally perform when he does not play. Rodri is not overrated. If anything, for too long he’s been underrated. Only now, is he beginning to be appreciated for the outstanding performer that he is.
Bang on. I was complaining for years that United neglected the position, some fans believing McTominay or Fred would be good enough to play that role. No you need a top player in that position. It sets the tempo of the team defensively and going forward
Precisely. The overaching problem is coaches/players/pundits believe playing deep in midfield is beneath England’s finest talents. Maddison shapes like a continental deep playmaker but hes a second rate 10. Next generation needs to convert some of these boatloads of 10s and wingers earlier. Rice etc simply don’t have the required ability to dictate play.
@@starbwoy133you don’t necessarily need a range of passing… makele didn’t. More than anything you need to know how to control the tempo of games with little passes and breaking down opponents attacks. Now when to speed the game up and when to slow it down.
@TheWallethead fair point, but I would argue Carrick is the closest thing England had to a Rodri, Makelele was unique in regards to his physical attributes, which are similar to Kante. Depends on what type of CDM you want in the side. Do you prefer a combative type or the pass master?!
The problem is the ‘culture’ of English football from grassroots straight through to professionals, the foreign teams just seem to ‘get it’ and have a better overall understanding of how the game should be played. There seems to be more emphasis on the team as opposed to individual players.
when zubimendi entered, English media was saying he aint good, 99% of this people in English media dont watch la lira, if they did they will know zubimendi isn't that too far off Rodri. he's that good, and clears rice. but since he is playing for Sociedad, they dont =even know him because they dont watch him, and they disrespect him. there's a reason why Barca, Bayern and arsenal want him
He’s a good midfielder but to say he’s not too far off Rodri? Basically saying he’s not far off being the best midfielder in the world 😂 no need for the exaggeration Are you looking for some praise that you know zubimendi and the vast majority don’t?
@@User-ei7eo he’s better than Declan rice as a DM. I watch almost all of his games, well maybe too much because I’m a sociedad fan. Again, English media shits on players they have no clue about and have never watched. He did more on that pitch in 45 mins than rice did all tournament
Definitely a bit of arrogance from our media there. They assumed Spain had no depth which anyone who knows a little bit about football knows is nonsense. The Premier League might have the most money and be a commercial giant but on a basic level the Spaniards still lead the world on coaching and players. It's like everyone forgot that they were the best team at the last Euros as well. Battered Italy, just couldn't get the ball in the net which they fixed this time.
I do really think people don’t get what Barnes talking about but you have to pay attention what is tallking about because it’s the fact: in England every player wanna be the one who scored or assist or get the attention from the media and that is what killed them cause you making things complicated and don’t allow every one to shine what he do the best. In Spain or Germany or those great teams allows every one to do specific job and that what makes them to perform their best ✅
John Barnes coming on holding court, educating the whole of talk sport in football. Ferdinand and everyone else should listen to this. He even has them agreeing having 2 holding midfielders is the way to go and does not mean defensive football! Amazing !
Adam Wharton is the 6 England have searched for since Carrick. A man comfortable taking the ball on the turn and playing forward passes. Keeping possession. Dictating play from deep. The fact that elite scouting departments from Bayern Munich and Real Madrid have shown an interest in him is all we need to know. He has more of a continental 6 vibe about him. And the biggest plus, he seems to enjoy playing the position. He’s not aching to bomb forward and transition into an 8. Tactical discipline appears to be important to him.
Agreed. You would've seen such nice combinations between Wharton, Mainoo, Foden and Saka. Rice is another Harry Kane who'll get overrated in an England shirt especially now he plays for Arsenal
Yeah for Palace , doesn’t mean he would of thrived at the euros , look at Foden, everyone swore blind he would be player of the tournament but he was piss poor
Another one of those players on the bench that get better the longer they don't play. "This one player is the answer to all of our problems". More simple solutions to complex questions.
spot on, in earlier days, English media and fans didn't appreciate players like Carrick and Parker enough. In their view, no matter the position only standard is how many goals a season.
@@roberttaylor7715 Seedorf in his later years with Milan moved back. He was not an out and out 6, but he could play as a 6 when needed, and play it really well. Edgar Davids was always a 6 who could push forward when needed. Lucio was a center back, he never played as a 6, as far as I know.
When the heck did Lucio or Seedorf ever play a 6? The regista is either an Andrea Pirlo or a Sergio Busquets. For England, the closest in terms of quality you had was Michael Carrick.
It is just not the way the English play even if they wanted to, you can make a trip to Spain and dip your hand in and pull up a couple of no.6 because in LaLiga that’s their focus Passing, Possession and Position with tactical flexibility and Spain was a perfect example of that, the no.6 is crucial for that way of play. I just think that England needs a style or way of play that suits them, based on Power, Pace and strikers that will bully the opponent.
Michael Carrick is an example of a no. 6 that was ahead of his time for England. He was the perfect complement for Lampard and Gerrard in that midfield. England had no tactical nous then and they don't have it now. Hence the confusion on who should be the number 6.
John Barnes is a social personality and a gentleman. He was a great player on the pitch and understands very well the two different worlds of football as a player and as a manager!!! John Barnes is 🥇🥇🥇👌👌👌👍👍👍👍👍 as my club: Liverpool🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Mainoo didn’t have a great game because he watched the ball sailing over his head as the England keeper kept launching the ball over his head. This was the England tactic to beat the Spanish high press, lol!
@@emmanuelolowu6768 Not his job to come short to be first receiver from the goalie. Would have been pointless him trying. Did you not see John Stones demanded the ball short, but Pickford waved him and all the England players away, as he then launched the ball upfield for the umpteenth time. Clearly, you didn’t watch the game closely enough.
Trouble Rice dwells on the ball seems quite slow at times and he does not pass the ball forward enough too many sideways and backwards but that could be due to the lack of movement up front and overall
@ainsleymcclymont6308 possibly if static up front but top players play it forward through the channels. It would have helped having a more balanced team Two wide boys with, foden more central but rest was history SG was Shite and the players average.
Carrick deep in Man United midfield was responsible for much of United success between 2007 to 2013...simple rotation of ball in midfield, protecting back 4 not always trying to attack nd create
Barnes is right. Rice is a 6 as his strength is strong defensive cover for his defence, but his weakness is ball control and distribution. Mainoo can also be a 6 for ball distribution but his defensive traits are still weak. Therefore England needs 2 players to have a complete 6 position. Spain’s Rodri has both Mainoo & Rice strength in one player to play 6. Ruiz is not a 6 but a versatile 8. Kalvin Phillips is the nearest England has to Rodri, great defensive midfielder and also good ball distribution especially the long balls. If he plays, Rice can play the Ruiz role. Too bad Phillips has got a bad season, due to lack of games, so England can’t afford to bring him there.
Barnes is on point. Spain have a footballing identity in which players have clear roles. England are individuals. Plus, I can't think of a top class English number 6. As for Rice saying he's more attacking than Rodri, the Spaniard scored more goals and made more assists than Rice last season.
Barnsey is absolutely spot on but the issue will always come back to wanting to play the stars. No one has the guts to play the system that works and tell a star he’s on the bench or leave them off the team. Exhibit A - Scholes, Lampard, Gerard. We were adamant that all had to play even though it was the wrong thing to do. Also Real Madrid made that mistake as well after letting Makalele leave for Chelsea, they didn’t appreciate the unappreciated.
The difference between Spain and England is football culture and ideology. You want to play football but it's not in your culture. Has nothing to do with a 6 or no 6, double 6 or quadruple 6. The English players are not growing up with having to play a certain way, every person in England thinks they know football better than the next. You have no universal football culture. Premier league makes you think you are good but the true quality footballers (ball on feet) are almost all foreign. The best technical English player i have ever seen is probably Phil Foden, literally can't think of anyone else who can turn in small spaces with quality/creativity. If you go look at a game in La Liga you can see even the last team plays football. Look at Saka for example, he is probably known in England as a technical player, if you really look at him he is everything but technical, he cannot do anything with the ball in tight spaces. Bellingham is pure quality but not on a technical level. UK has no real ballers, that's what it comes down to.
Dribbling in tight places isn't the only type of technical quality. Palmer has a better football brain than Foden and makes better decisions on and off the ball. Foden likes the ball to feet every time to take people on but lacks the nous to play well off the ball like KdB or even Palmer. It's why he always looks bang average for England but looks like a world beater at City.
RICE IS NEVER A 6 IN A MILLION YEARS!!!! He's not comfortable with the ball in tight areas and isn't good enough on his left foot. EVERYONE IS SLEEPING ON WHARTON!! HE'S AN ABSOLUTE PIVOT PLAYER!!
Rice is such a limited player. He cannot go past someone, he cannot take the ball in tight spaces off both feet, and he needs 2-3 touches which slows down the team. He basically for England took the ball of Stones then passed it back to him. England has always needed a Michael Carrick player and he was poorly treated by England because this country culturally has always valued industry and physicality over trickery and guile. It's blood, guts and thunder, 'running their heart out', which is why Southgate turned to Gallagher and not Wharton.
The best midfielders can pass the ball and stand out in various midfield positions at different times during a match whether that is attacking Mid, Defensive Mid, Deep playmaking etc. Roy Keane, Dunga, Redondo, Xavi, Scholes, Fabregas, Pirlo, Totti, Busquets Carrick, Sweinsteiger, Kroos, Modric, Viera, Kante all know how to do everything at top level and are elite at some things. Declan Rice just inst as good as English pundits and fans think. Mainoo is a brilliant talent in the metronome mold but he was swarmed and pressed vs Spain because they know once they get him out the game then England can't play through the midfield because he has the world class skill set of press resistance, dribbling, passing between the lines and movement that Declan Rice doesnt possess
England will never win a tournament until the culture of this country values the number 6 position. A player who dictates the play through ball retention & then looks to play passes through the thirds. This stems from the failures of the FA & scouts across the country for generations. Too many look for the kids who score the most goals, display athleticism & are consistently intent on attacking. They need to analyse potential in players who make the right decisions with keeping the ball, and in doing it with no more than 2 touches. Brazilians are full of flare, Spaniards, Germans & Italians keep the ball, what is England’s philosophy & style of play? No one can give you an answer. We’re not known for anything other than individual brilliance, take it back to 2006 with Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc… and history is repeating itself again. Declan Rice came through the academy as a centre back, Mainoo was spotted by scouts at United whilst playing as a striker. Both are great players but they’re not NATURAL number 6’s. It showed against the Spaniards & against even weaker opposition. Why is the area of the pitch, the most crucial in the modern game, not being highlighted as an area of necessity? None are coming through because clubs & the FA are NOT teaching it. Spain had Rodri, Germany had Kroos, Croatia had Modric, I could go on. Englands last natural number 6 was Michael Carrick & he was overlooked for Gerrard & Lampard as Sven tried to squeeze all the big names onto the pitch. Everyone can see that we’ve got the talent, England had a far greater team on paper compared to Spain, so why did we lose? We lost because we have no philosophy. It was evident throughout the tournament & we survived this long because of individual brilliance. I don’t want an English manager in after Southgate because they would’ve come through the FA and will have the same limitations. We need someone to come in & set a stamp on how we’re going to play. We lost to Italy 2020 in the final because we couldn’t keep the ball, and we lost last night because we couldn’t keep the ball. History will continue if nothing changes. Modern football is won in midfield, and ours is years behind.
Start of the tournament, England’s coach thought Trent Alexander-Arnold and Declan Rice would do the job in the pivot. This one action shows what is fundamentally flawed with how England, Their coaches, their FA, sees the game. Trent can pass, and Rice can sure up defense. Seems so simple right? Wrong. You have two players at the pivot who have little to no instincts on how to dictate a match, what a match needs on order to be controlled.
I agree. It's obviously not our only problem but it's been a constant in the three big losses we've had (Spain, Italy, Croatia. Discounting France because we played quite well in that one).
Well said, I've said this countless time england won't win a tournament unless they can control the midfield with creative number 6s, this is a grassroots issue. The top nations know this is a very important position so they harvest players for this position.
This is why Souness and Mourinho said England needed Gilmour last Euros. Scotland were awful, yes, but he is a fantastic player. Ask Chelsea, Brighton and Scotland fans.
John Barnes, should be a regular , what a knowledgeable and articulate gentleman...He really adds quality, compared to the usual drivel and dry rants, these other lads spit out daily...
Barnes is right in his assessment of that role. It's not to say that a defensive midfielder should be devoid of skill and a high technical ability, just not base the strong suits to their game on that aspect but rather just use it as a tool if and when needed, otherwise be simplistic like a metronome and just keep recycling the ball between defence and midfield with retention and retrieval of the ball the number 1 priorities. Arsenal bias aside, the best in the Premier League has been Gilberto Silva with Claude Makelele a close second just ahead of Rodri.
Barney speaks some sense here but it sounds like even he doesn’t understand the role of the 6. Rodri/Ruiz/Zubimendi did not play in the way he is describing - They are all dictators, they are what a 6 should be.
Fans saying “ take the handbrake off, twin pivot is too negative, “ don’t understand about the need for balance in a team. Spain had that balance in the system they played. Brazil used a twin pivot and won the 2002 World Cup with it. England had balance using the twin pivot during Euro 2021 when I feel that we controlled games better.
England and English people don't respect that position and when they do give it any mind they lazily just throw in "the kid who's comfortable on the ball" or "the big fella to defend". That is a specialist role that requires a player with great vision, game awareness, a range of passing, and tactical awareness. The last world class player of that sort England produced was Micheal Carrick and he wasnt used, the player England have there right now: Adam Wharton, wasnt used. Im a United fan, I love Mainoo, but he's an 8, he's more Iniesta than Busquets, his best work comes high up the pitch both on and off the ball, same for Rice, hes a box to box 8 not someone who dictates play. In the future the england midfield should be Mainoo/Bellingham/Foden/Palmer in the creative role with the Rice and Gallagher types box to box and Wharton sitting. Alot of people pit Mainoo and Wharton against each other when in any other country its not a comparison cause theyd play together in different positions
Why can’t Maino do is best work deeper? The big problem is coaches/players/pundits believe playing deep in midfield is beneath England’s finest talents. Maddison shapes like a continental deep playmaker but hes a second rate 10. Next generation needs to convert some of these boatloads of 8s, 10s and wingers earlier. Rice etc simply don’t have the required ability to dictate play.
@@YayaTourney There is an element of no outside the box thinking. Like Ross Barkley was naff for years and then Sarri moved him into the deep role and suddenly he looked good.
First ex pro pundit I heard that makes sense of the England dilemma and what was going wrong instead of just being critical of the players or style of play..well Said Barnes, great player and proves he knows his stuff..!
You don’t need to have a 6. We never used to have these designations in midfield. Rice and mainoo both have similar attributes. If one goes, the other sits and vice versa. That’s how things use to get done, it doesn’t always need to change. Roy Keane wasn’t a 6 or an 8, he was both. And it didn’t matter if he was playing with Ince or butt, if one went, the other stayed. This would work great with rice and mainoo because by asking either of those to permanently play the 6, you lose a lot from either.
Well he dictates play Rice hasn’t learnt that art yet. Its not something that alot of players can do. We are talking about Pirlo, Scholes, Busquets, Xavi, Guardiola even Keane in his later years. I think Rice will develop more as a box to box player. Not sure he’ll be a deep lying playmaker.
@@waynemarshall8836 Yeah I doubt he will at this point. Shame he's being played there because he could add a lot to the team playing box to box. Hope the next manager moves him forward and looks for a proper 6.
Rice should have been on Rodri most of that game? Rodri only played 45 minutes. Southgate’s tactic was to stop Yamal cutting inside, and it worked for 45 minutes.
Mainoo was shocking in the final. 29 touches and 11 times lost possession. His 3rd touch came in the 18th minute and he kicked off. All he does is pass the ball 5 to 10 yards, sideways and backwards. Stop overhyping Mainoo!! He’s decent but last night proved he isn’t ready for those huge games.
"Isn't ready for big games" -game winner against wolves -wonderful game against Liverpool, our biggest rival, and a goal -FA Cup Final -Semi-final performance for England vs Netherlands Please don't blame Mainoo for Southgate and Rice's incompetence, a teenager should be able to look around for leaders and there aren't any in that dressing room. This is why us Yanited Fans didn't want Mainoo to play for England. One mediocre performance and its his fault England failed to deliver again.
@@zinedinezidane4771stop comparing a domestic cup that no one outside England care about to an international final watched by hundreds of millions around the world
Doubt he will purely because he's a defensive midfielder. It's a popularity contest. I can think of a couple that went to Messi and Ronaldo that perhaps should've gone to other players.
When push comes to shove we talk about which is the biggest club in England, it says alot that Ex-Liverpool players frequently appear across all platforms to discuss tactics, formations, players etc.
Barnes should be on here more often, he’s spot on mate.
@@criticalthinking8982 Bosque? Do you mean Sergio Busquets? Or Vicente del Bosque ?
@@FrancoisDufook Vicente del Busquets?
He's a liverpoop legend for a reason
Mainoo not a 6 nor is rice. Hence why jorginho or partey play 6.
@@JimBlaze87 Mainoo could probably do it if he really worked at it.
Barnes speaking fact. Basically saying England players want to do too much rather than just focusing on their roles and sticking to the basics. Seems like they all want to be the star player, which is impacting the performances and results.
You also have to blame the manager… every other team except Portugal trusts the squad to win games. In England, the manager wants the game winners to be his favourites that he picks all the time. Weak manager. It’s the reason spurs lost the champions league final. Poch unable to make the tough decision in Kane and now Southgate did the same. Starting a clearly injured player instead of using the squad with two fit strikers properly. Spain took off Rodri instead of playing him injured. Every game the Spanish manager made changes to his key men to give them a break and to use the full squad. Every game Morata played 60 minutes. The young wide players rarely finished games.
@@TheWallethead Felt a bit like the old England this tournament where we were trying to fit every star player in whether they fitted into the team or not. Weirdly Southgate was fairly good at building a more cohesive unit when he came in but feels like he's gone backwards this tournament. Like when he came in he did what was best for the team by getting rid of Wazza and making Kane the focal point. I like a lot of what Southgate has done for England but it definitely feels like the end now.
Might be time to look at switching up the striker as well. Kane is great at getting his teams to finals but he's been shocking in every final he's played. Something in his head seems to go wrong. Keep him in the squad if he's still scoring for Bayern but time to stop being wholly reliant on him.
Hes also saying there players are not good enough. They don’t produce intelligent deep playibg midfielders
@@monkey39128 He bows down to pressure from the media, I remember he was criticized for picking players out of form, (although they had experience) so he changed and picked players in form (but without experience), he was criticized for putting Foden on the bench, so he played him every game despite him not producing the performances, then he was criticized for playing Foden on the wing, then he played him through the centre and shafted Bellingham on the left. I think he just turns on the TV and gets his line up from Sky
Hang on, are you saying you’d drop Kane in the champions league final if you was Poch??? Kane has scored over 200 goals for Tottenham. That’s more than spurs whole 11
John Barnes knowledge is second to none always a balanced view
Knowledge alone😂
@@MrATate-bz1itwhy are you being flippant,whats the funny thing about it?
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Barnes is a superb pundit, thank you for the education today!
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Refreshing to hear someone talk actual football instead of all these emotional nonsense. It's so refreshing hearing someone who actually played and understands the game.
Barnes knows his stuff
To a very high level at that
England always want to play other ppls style. England should just play England style
You don’t have to have “played the game” to understand Football lol, it’s not rocket science.
Playing doesn't mean understanding. As great as defender Rio was, he has never broken the game down like this
Wow... This is the most intelligent description of football positions and what's required of that position, that i have ever heard on this show. Can we just Mr Barnes teaches football every week.
He's played for Liverpool... Of course he knows ball.
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Rodri has gone 71 consecutive games in the league without defeat, which is the longest unbeaten run for a player in the history of the Premier League.
Rodri gets too much credit for this stat bc ppp forget to consider that more than half the reasons he won those 71 games is bc he is playing with Kdb haaland foden and many other stars. Not to mention pep. Bc we all know he would not have that stat playing with Chelsea or Villa. I feel that part gets lost in stats like this. Pep coached all 71 of those games.
@@theach84 Only thing is, City have lost all their Prem games over the last 3 seasons only when Rodri didn’t play. Odd that, isn’t it? Seems a bit more than mere coincidence.
He’s also just got player of the Euros. No Pep. No City team mates. Hmm… Seems that he’s some player after all. More than you, with your jaundiced perspective, are prepared to give him credit for. Too bad.
@@really8930 even if everything you say here is correct, it still does not change the point I made, take away pep, kdb haaland, foden, Gundogan….and many other players and that record does not stand. Put Rodri in Chelsea for the last 3 years and that record does not happen. Just pointing to the idea, that part is usually overlooked when this stat is presented. No need to sound salty it is not meant to be criticism but pointing out an easily missed part of the stat. It just so happens every team he plays in is stacked. It’s funny Atletico when they were at peak, might be the worst team he has played in and Atletico were more than a decent team.
@@theach84 Your point is a bad one. You say “take away Pep” and many others and the record does not happen. You are stating the blindingly obvious, lol. Football is a team sport. It’s not golf. It’s not boxing. It’s not Formula One racing. No one has ever said that Rodri did the unbeaten run all on his own.
It’s not merely the stats, though. It’s how City perform when he plays to how they occasionally perform when he does not play. Rodri is not overrated. If anything, for too long he’s been underrated. Only now, is he beginning to be appreciated for the outstanding performer that he is.
Rodri is lucky a lot of games city should lose but var bails them
Bang on. I was complaining for years that United neglected the position, some fans believing McTominay or Fred would be good enough to play that role. No you need a top player in that position. It sets the tempo of the team defensively and going forward
Carrick was superb in that role for Man Utd. You need a range of passing for that position, and he had it.
Precisely. The overaching problem is coaches/players/pundits believe playing deep in midfield is beneath England’s finest talents. Maddison shapes like a continental deep playmaker but hes a second rate 10. Next generation needs to convert some of these boatloads of 10s and wingers earlier. Rice etc simply don’t have the required ability to dictate play.
@@starbwoy133you don’t necessarily need a range of passing… makele didn’t. More than anything you need to know how to control the tempo of games with little passes and breaking down opponents attacks. Now when to speed the game up and when to slow it down.
@@starbwoy133came here looking for the Carrick shout. He was the key piece missing from the Golden generation teams
@TheWallethead fair point, but I would argue Carrick is the closest thing England had to a Rodri, Makelele was unique in regards to his physical attributes, which are similar to Kante. Depends on what type of CDM you want in the side. Do you prefer a combative type or the pass master?!
Barnes = legend
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Conte at chelsea with kante and matic was perfect for this with Moses and Alonso bombing the wings
The problem is the ‘culture’ of English football from grassroots straight through to professionals, the foreign teams just seem to ‘get it’ and have a better overall understanding of how the game should be played. There seems to be more emphasis on the team as opposed to individual players.
The "who else?" player further justify your point.
when zubimendi entered, English media was saying he aint good, 99% of this people in English media dont watch la lira, if they did they will know zubimendi isn't that too far off Rodri. he's that good, and clears rice. but since he is playing for Sociedad, they dont =even know him because they dont watch him, and they disrespect him. there's a reason why Barca, Bayern and arsenal want him
He’s a good midfielder but to say he’s not too far off Rodri? Basically saying he’s not far off being the best midfielder in the world 😂 no need for the exaggeration
Are you looking for some praise that you know zubimendi and the vast majority don’t?
@@User-ei7eogot to admit. He absolutely bossed it yesterday. It was like Rodri didn’t come off the pitch.
@@User-ei7eo he’s better than Declan rice as a DM. I watch almost all of his games, well maybe too much because I’m a sociedad fan. Again, English media shits on players they have no clue about and have never watched. He did more on that pitch in 45 mins than rice did all tournament
@@User-ei7eorodri is a more complete midfielder overall but Zubi is much better defensively.
Definitely a bit of arrogance from our media there. They assumed Spain had no depth which anyone who knows a little bit about football knows is nonsense. The Premier League might have the most money and be a commercial giant but on a basic level the Spaniards still lead the world on coaching and players. It's like everyone forgot that they were the best team at the last Euros as well. Battered Italy, just couldn't get the ball in the net which they fixed this time.
Clear and concise answers. Direct explanations. Respect to John Barnes he knows his stuff
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I do really think people don’t get what Barnes talking about but you have to pay attention what is tallking about because it’s the fact: in England every player wanna be the one who scored or assist or get the attention from the media and that is what killed them cause you making things complicated and don’t allow every one to shine what he do the best. In Spain or Germany or those great teams allows every one to do specific job and that what makes them to perform their best ✅
Nonsense. Plenty of players are very happy to be work-horses in this England team. Rice, Gallagher, Mainoo. etc
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John Barnes coming on holding court, educating the whole of talk sport in football. Ferdinand and everyone else should listen to this. He even has them agreeing having 2 holding midfielders is the way to go and does not mean defensive football! Amazing !
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Barnes says it as it is, if you play like LFC you want Jordan and Gini, not Thiago and Eliott in your midfield, somebody has to defend.
Make John Barnes the new England Head Coach now.
He's got enough problems
@@mjimleeSuch as?
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Adam Wharton is the 6 England have searched for since Carrick. A man comfortable taking the ball on the turn and playing forward passes. Keeping possession. Dictating play from deep. The fact that elite scouting departments from Bayern Munich and Real Madrid have shown an interest in him is all we need to know. He has more of a continental 6 vibe about him. And the biggest plus, he seems to enjoy playing the position. He’s not aching to bomb forward and transition into an 8. Tactical discipline appears to be important to him.
Agreed.
You would've seen such nice combinations between Wharton, Mainoo, Foden and Saka.
Rice is another Harry Kane who'll get overrated in an England shirt especially now he plays for Arsenal
Glad you brought it up. Surprised he saw no minutes here.
Yeah for Palace , doesn’t mean he would of thrived at the euros , look at Foden, everyone swore blind he would be player of the tournament but he was piss poor
Sounds good!
Another one of those players on the bench that get better the longer they don't play. "This one player is the answer to all of our problems". More simple solutions to complex questions.
Love that he spoke the truth. All these talented players but you have to be a cog on the wheel & focus on your job. Everybody wants to be the hero.
100% correct . France is the same . The Makelele role is the single most important role in football
Kante is so important. Deschamps played that role too when France won the WC and Euros.
No he was an out and out cdm we’re talking about players who can control the match
spot on, in earlier days, English media and fans didn't appreciate players like Carrick and Parker enough. In their view, no matter the position only standard is how many goals a season.
true its a boring role, but thats make the team works, its team game not putting all you have on bellingham’s magic
Having A legend like Barnes here is so refreshing. Not This other two that make noise all day. Over hyping Bellingham and Co.😂😂😂
listening to someone who understand his what his talking about is always exhilirating
Barnes speaking straight facts
Give Digger the England job. Legend and a scholar.
Mr Barnes kicking knowledge regarding the deep six position,the likes of makelele,edgar davids,seadorf,Lucio,perfected tht role.
When did Seedorf, Lucio or even Davids play 6?
😂 ikr.@@roberttaylor7715
Lucio was a CB
@@roberttaylor7715 Seedorf in his later years with Milan moved back. He was not an out and out 6, but he could play as a 6 when needed, and play it really well. Edgar Davids was always a 6 who could push forward when needed. Lucio was a center back, he never played as a 6, as far as I know.
When the heck did Lucio or Seedorf ever play a 6? The regista is either an Andrea Pirlo or a Sergio Busquets. For England, the closest in terms of quality you had was Michael Carrick.
It is just not the way the English play even if they wanted to, you can make a trip to Spain and dip your hand in and pull up a couple of no.6 because in LaLiga that’s their focus Passing, Possession and Position with tactical flexibility and Spain was a perfect example of that, the no.6 is crucial for that way of play. I just think that England needs a style or way of play that suits them, based on Power, Pace and strikers that will bully the opponent.
Very interesting comment.
If England plays the way you described, it will be a high scoring, entertaining and open game. Results wise, not so sure😅
John Barnes is such a breath of fresh air. This is what punditry has to be
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Rice is not a 6 and proved it this tournament,he can't control games
Agree 200% He's a rebranded centre half playing the 6 role and he's limited in his capabilities
Michael Carrick is an example of a no. 6 that was ahead of his time for England. He was the perfect complement for Lampard and Gerrard in that midfield. England had no tactical nous then and they don't have it now. Hence the confusion on who should be the number 6.
Rice couldn't lace Rodri's boots
They play different positions. Not sure why we insist on playing Rice in a role he can't do.
(Not that I disagree. Rodri is a much better player).
Rice is an 8
John Barnes is a social personality and a gentleman.
He was a great player on the pitch and understands very well the two different worlds of football as a player and as a manager!!!
John Barnes is 🥇🥇🥇👌👌👌👍👍👍👍👍 as my club:
Liverpool🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Mainoo didn’t have a great game because he watched the ball sailing over his head as the England keeper kept launching the ball over his head. This was the England tactic to beat the Spanish high press, lol!
Spot on.
He doesn't really come for the ball as much as he should have been.
@@emmanuelolowu6768 Not his job to come short to be first receiver from the goalie. Would have been pointless him trying. Did you not see John Stones demanded the ball short, but Pickford waved him and all the England players away, as he then launched the ball upfield for the umpteenth time. Clearly, you didn’t watch the game closely enough.
Love John Barnes
It’s nice to listen to someone who understands football
What a player barnes was the best British natural dribbler ive ever seen
Trouble Rice dwells on the ball seems quite slow at times and he does not pass the ball forward enough too many sideways and backwards but that could be due to the lack of movement up front and overall
Could it be sometimes the players ahead of the ball are not necessarily in good positions or should he take more risks.
@ainsleymcclymont6308 possibly if static up front but top players play it forward through the channels. It would have helped having a more balanced team Two wide boys with, foden more central but rest was history SG was Shite and the players average.
Carrick deep in Man United midfield was responsible for much of United success between 2007 to 2013...simple rotation of ball in midfield, protecting back 4 not always trying to attack nd create
Barnes is right. Rice is a 6 as his strength is strong defensive cover for his defence, but his weakness is ball control and distribution. Mainoo can also be a 6 for ball distribution but his defensive traits are still weak. Therefore England needs 2 players to have a complete 6 position.
Spain’s Rodri has both Mainoo & Rice strength in one player to play 6. Ruiz is not a 6 but a versatile 8. Kalvin Phillips is the nearest England has to Rodri, great defensive midfielder and also good ball distribution especially the long balls. If he plays, Rice can play the Ruiz role. Too bad Phillips has got a bad season, due to lack of games, so England can’t afford to bring him there.
English think the 6 have to be a defensive player rather than a DLP🤔
Rice doesn't have it in him to playmake. Apparently he's more of an 8.
The "who else?" guy is going to cause more heartbreaks for England fans.
@@humptydumpty20_Got absolutely nothing to do with the comment you replied to lol_
@@mh.1. 😆😆😆
Barnes is brilliant...amazing analysis on football
John Barnes should speak more. He makes sense
Wharton, Wharton Wharton. Outplayed Mainoo when they played Palace!!!
Rice and his clubfoot is awful.
HUH
And mainoo outplayed rodri when they played dumb argument
@mrbean3088 A drunk Rodri
@space1734 A drunk Rodri is better than pass it sideways, Mainoo!!!
Barnes for England Manager!
Barnes bang on with the positions and responsibilities of the players
Spot on Mr Barnes. Fabian ran the show man.
Barnes is on point. Spain have a footballing identity in which players have clear roles. England are individuals. Plus, I can't think of a top class English number 6.
As for Rice saying he's more attacking than Rodri, the Spaniard scored more goals and made more assists than Rice last season.
Barne’s football iq is elite…I have to say that this tournament has exposed rice…. as overrated …
Barnsey is absolutely spot on but the issue will always come back to wanting to play the stars. No one has the guts to play the system that works and tell a star he’s on the bench or leave them off the team. Exhibit A - Scholes, Lampard, Gerard. We were adamant that all had to play even though it was the wrong thing to do. Also Real Madrid made that mistake as well after letting Makalele leave for Chelsea, they didn’t appreciate the unappreciated.
Legend.sir John Barnes,always listen to your Legends
He knows what he's taking about
The difference between Spain and England is football culture and ideology. You want to play football but it's not in your culture. Has nothing to do with a 6 or no 6, double 6 or quadruple 6. The English players are not growing up with having to play a certain way, every person in England thinks they know football better than the next. You have no universal football culture. Premier league makes you think you are good but the true quality footballers (ball on feet) are almost all foreign. The best technical English player i have ever seen is probably Phil Foden, literally can't think of anyone else who can turn in small spaces with quality/creativity. If you go look at a game in La Liga you can see even the last team plays football. Look at Saka for example, he is probably known in England as a technical player, if you really look at him he is everything but technical, he cannot do anything with the ball in tight spaces. Bellingham is pure quality but not on a technical level.
UK has no real ballers, that's what it comes down to.
Dribbling in tight places isn't the only type of technical quality. Palmer has a better football brain than Foden and makes better decisions on and off the ball. Foden likes the ball to feet every time to take people on but lacks the nous to play well off the ball like KdB or even Palmer. It's why he always looks bang average for England but looks like a world beater at City.
barnes so far is the only person who makes sense
Poor Candy lost he's voice😂😂😂
La Roja❤
Too much sniff
All that whinging and whining.
RICE IS NEVER A 6 IN A MILLION YEARS!!!!
He's not comfortable with the ball in tight areas and isn't good enough on his left foot.
EVERYONE IS SLEEPING ON WHARTON!! HE'S AN ABSOLUTE PIVOT PLAYER!!
Young generation please watch barnes back in the day especially that dribble again brazil
Rice is such a limited player. He cannot go past someone, he cannot take the ball in tight spaces off both feet, and he needs 2-3 touches which slows down the team. He basically for England took the ball of Stones then passed it back to him. England has always needed a Michael Carrick player and he was poorly treated by England because this country culturally has always valued industry and physicality over trickery and guile. It's blood, guts and thunder, 'running their heart out', which is why Southgate turned to Gallagher and not Wharton.
Didn't he start as a centre back? We should just try him there, he might be good at that.
Carrick is overrated.
@@user-vr9wc2ik9z He really isn't. Not world class but he's one of the best deep lying playmakers England have had anytime recently.
@@user-vr9wc2ik9zyou a dummy
Nobody even noticed Claude Makelele in the team, legendary player
Rodri lost 4 games and won 8 trophies in the last 2 years for club and country.
Hearing John Barnes preach on talk sport, makes me realise what we've been missing from this station!
Make Barnes a regular !
To be fair, John Barnes has been spot on with his post tournament analysis on England whilst he's been on.
Pure common sense from John Barnes. 💯 correct
The best midfielders can pass the ball and stand out in various midfield positions at different times during a match whether that is attacking Mid, Defensive Mid, Deep playmaking etc. Roy Keane, Dunga, Redondo, Xavi, Scholes, Fabregas, Pirlo, Totti, Busquets Carrick, Sweinsteiger, Kroos, Modric, Viera, Kante all know how to do everything at top level and are elite at some things. Declan Rice just inst as good as English pundits and fans think. Mainoo is a brilliant talent in the metronome mold but he was swarmed and pressed vs Spain because they know once they get him out the game then England can't play through the midfield because he has the world class skill set of press resistance, dribbling, passing between the lines and movement that Declan Rice doesnt possess
England will never win a tournament until the culture of this country values the number 6 position. A player who dictates the play through ball retention & then looks to play passes through the thirds.
This stems from the failures of the FA & scouts across the country for generations. Too many look for the kids who score the most goals, display athleticism & are consistently intent on attacking. They need to analyse potential in players who make the right decisions with keeping the ball, and in doing it with no more than 2 touches.
Brazilians are full of flare, Spaniards, Germans & Italians keep the ball, what is England’s philosophy & style of play? No one can give you an answer. We’re not known for anything other than individual brilliance, take it back to 2006 with Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc… and history is repeating itself again.
Declan Rice came through the academy as a centre back, Mainoo was spotted by scouts at United whilst playing as a striker. Both are great players but they’re not NATURAL number 6’s. It showed against the Spaniards & against even weaker opposition. Why is the area of the pitch, the most crucial in the modern game, not being highlighted as an area of necessity? None are coming through because clubs & the FA are NOT teaching it.
Spain had Rodri, Germany had Kroos, Croatia had Modric, I could go on. Englands last natural number 6 was Michael Carrick & he was overlooked for Gerrard & Lampard as Sven tried to squeeze all the big names onto the pitch.
Everyone can see that we’ve got the talent, England had a far greater team on paper compared to Spain, so why did we lose? We lost because we have no philosophy. It was evident throughout the tournament & we survived this long because of individual brilliance.
I don’t want an English manager in after Southgate because they would’ve come through the FA and will have the same limitations. We need someone to come in & set a stamp on how we’re going to play. We lost to Italy 2020 in the final because we couldn’t keep the ball, and we lost last night because we couldn’t keep the ball. History will continue if nothing changes.
Modern football is won in midfield, and ours is years behind.
Start of the tournament, England’s coach thought Trent Alexander-Arnold and Declan Rice would do the job in the pivot.
This one action shows what is fundamentally flawed with how England, Their coaches, their FA, sees the game.
Trent can pass, and Rice can sure up defense. Seems so simple right? Wrong.
You have two players at the pivot who have little to no instincts on how to dictate a match, what a match needs on order to be controlled.
I agree. It's obviously not our only problem but it's been a constant in the three big losses we've had (Spain, Italy, Croatia. Discounting France because we played quite well in that one).
Well said, I've said this countless time england won't win a tournament unless they can control the midfield with creative number 6s, this is a grassroots issue. The top nations know this is a very important position so they harvest players for this position.
And also English players like running with the the ball and hogging the ball. They don't play the pass at the right time
Isn't the Crystal Palace kid the DM you're talking about fot England?
This is why Souness and Mourinho said England needed Gilmour last Euros.
Scotland were awful, yes, but he is a fantastic player.
Ask Chelsea, Brighton and Scotland fans.
Brilliant video 👍👍
John Barnes, should be a regular , what a knowledgeable and articulate gentleman...He really adds quality, compared to the usual drivel and dry rants, these other lads spit out daily...
I think no. 6 is a sexy role. Especially after watching players like Scholes, Pirlo and Redondo playing that role
Only one of those you mentioned was a 6. Pirlo and Scholes were deep laying midfielders
Please don't remind me of Redondo...still having nightmares.
@@TheKh656 is a midfield position. When you play 6, you play in the midfield, which makes you a midfielder.
@abstraqtphilosophy7357 I meant to write deep laying play makers. My bad
@zinedinezidane4771
Scholes was an 8 or occasionally a 10, Never a No 6 🤣
Barnes is right in his assessment of that role. It's not to say that a defensive midfielder should be devoid of skill and a high technical ability, just not base the strong suits to their game on that aspect but rather just use it as a tool if and when needed, otherwise be simplistic like a metronome and just keep recycling the ball between defence and midfield with retention and retrieval of the ball the number 1 priorities.
Arsenal bias aside, the best in the Premier League has been Gilberto Silva with Claude Makelele a close second just ahead of Rodri.
Love John Barnes. Sensible and spot on.
Problem is that Rice is not a number 6, just a centre half that shifted position. Wharton is better option
Barney speaks some sense here but it sounds like even he doesn’t understand the role of the 6.
Rodri/Ruiz/Zubimendi did not play in the way he is describing - They are all dictators, they are what a 6 should be.
Exactly I couldn’t believe he said “just tell Rice to play like Rodri” despite Rice himself saying they’re different players
@@theblues8840 he lost me when says rodri doesnt score goals
@@sharifs649He's right rodri doesnt thats not his role
Alonso scored one of the best goals in Liverpool's history!
Fans saying “ take the handbrake off, twin pivot is too negative, “ don’t understand about the need for balance in a team. Spain had that balance in the system they played. Brazil used a twin pivot and won the 2002 World Cup with it. England had balance using the twin pivot during Euro 2021 when I feel that we controlled games better.
England and English people don't respect that position and when they do give it any mind they lazily just throw in "the kid who's comfortable on the ball" or "the big fella to defend". That is a specialist role that requires a player with great vision, game awareness, a range of passing, and tactical awareness. The last world class player of that sort England produced was Micheal Carrick and he wasnt used, the player England have there right now: Adam Wharton, wasnt used. Im a United fan, I love Mainoo, but he's an 8, he's more Iniesta than Busquets, his best work comes high up the pitch both on and off the ball, same for Rice, hes a box to box 8 not someone who dictates play. In the future the england midfield should be Mainoo/Bellingham/Foden/Palmer in the creative role with the Rice and Gallagher types box to box and Wharton sitting. Alot of people pit Mainoo and Wharton against each other when in any other country its not a comparison cause theyd play together in different positions
Why can’t Maino do is best work deeper? The big problem is coaches/players/pundits believe playing deep in midfield is beneath England’s finest talents. Maddison shapes like a continental deep playmaker but hes a second rate 10. Next generation needs to convert some of these boatloads of 8s, 10s and wingers earlier. Rice etc simply don’t have the required ability to dictate play.
@@YayaTourney There is an element of no outside the box thinking. Like Ross Barkley was naff for years and then Sarri moved him into the deep role and suddenly he looked good.
@@monkey39128 good shout
First ex pro pundit I heard that makes sense of the England dilemma and what was going wrong instead of just being critical of the players or style of play..well Said Barnes, great player and proves he knows his stuff..!
England has that player. He was on the bench all tournament. He's called Wharton.
I never understood why he was on the bench
Because rice know how to make his stats look good by doing side pass, back pass.
You don’t need to have a 6. We never used to have these designations in midfield. Rice and mainoo both have similar attributes. If one goes, the other sits and vice versa. That’s how things use to get done, it doesn’t always need to change.
Roy Keane wasn’t a 6 or an 8, he was both. And it didn’t matter if he was playing with Ince or butt, if one went, the other stayed. This would work great with rice and mainoo because by asking either of those to permanently play the 6, you lose a lot from either.
Thank you John Barnes…some of our players want to do too much
Just a legend
Rice was moved out of the 6 position by Arteta because he wasnt very good there. Hes much better as an 8
Proper proper analysis...finally...thx john
Barnes makes me understand football better
Rodri passes the ball forward ..
Rice never makes a pass that cuts through a team ..
Well he dictates play Rice hasn’t learnt that art yet. Its not something that alot of players can do. We are talking about Pirlo, Scholes, Busquets, Xavi, Guardiola even Keane in his later years. I think Rice will develop more as a box to box player. Not sure he’ll be a deep lying playmaker.
@@waynemarshall8836 Yeah I doubt he will at this point. Shame he's being played there because he could add a lot to the team playing box to box. Hope the next manager moves him forward and looks for a proper 6.
Barnes speaks so well.
Ironically Mainoo and Rodri scored goals to win major trophies
England will never win anything with Rice in midfield
John Barnes was a great no6 towards the end of his career
wharton is the answer. hes the closest england have to a rodri or ruiz. he looks like a left footed micheal carrick.
Mans talking SENSE
Rice should have been on Rodri most of that game? Rodri only played 45 minutes. Southgate’s tactic was to stop Yamal cutting inside, and it worked for 45 minutes.
Foden did it if you watch again.
He’s spot on , that’s why Keano was so important at united.
Spot on from Barnes. This is why Spain was the best team in the tournament. They all knew their roles. Didn’t do more then you had to.
Spot on from a True legend
of the sport.
Mainoo was shocking in the final. 29 touches and 11 times lost possession. His 3rd touch came in the 18th minute and he kicked off. All he does is pass the ball 5 to 10 yards, sideways and backwards. Stop overhyping Mainoo!! He’s decent but last night proved he isn’t ready for those huge games.
Like the FA cup final ?
"Isn't ready for big games"
-game winner against wolves
-wonderful game against Liverpool, our biggest rival, and a goal
-FA Cup Final
-Semi-final performance for England vs Netherlands
Please don't blame Mainoo for Southgate and Rice's incompetence, a teenager should be able to look around for leaders and there aren't any in that dressing room.
This is why us Yanited Fans didn't want Mainoo to play for England. One mediocre performance and its his fault England failed to deliver again.
He's a good player but that was 1 his first final and 2 a game where none of our players had a good game
@@zinedinezidane4771stop comparing a domestic cup that no one outside England care about to an international final watched by hundreds of millions around the world
@@ashwilliams4959he simply isn't ready for those big games.
Carrick, Barry, Hargreaves( played more of a b2b but could play DM) were pretty good, Mainoo and Wharton seem like proper DM/CM.
John Barnes is spot on
If Rodri doesn’t win balon d’or I give up
Doubt he will purely because he's a defensive midfielder. It's a popularity contest. I can think of a couple that went to Messi and Ronaldo that perhaps should've gone to other players.
@@monkey39128yea iniesta, Pirlo & henry
When push comes to shove we talk about which is the biggest club in England, it says alot that Ex-Liverpool players frequently appear across all platforms to discuss tactics, formations, players etc.
John Barnes is the reason i support Liverpool.