Excavator Not Tracking Straight, TOUGH Hydraulic Repair.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ค. 2023
- My excavator hasn't tracked straight since I bought it. I finally dive in and try to repair it, and wow, it turns out to be a tough job.
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#farmlife #farmcraft101 #farming #farmer #excavator #hydraulic #trackmachine - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
One things ive learned watching your repair videos is just how valuable a lathe is as a tool for making repairs.
Agree!! The tools he makes.... So cool
Ave said when the you know what hits the fan you are either going to want a lathe or know someone who does because of how useful they are for repairs
As an industrial maintenance/repair man, I have a lathe but rarely use it. When you need a lathe you need a lathe. But for what he used it for in this video, I wouldn't've bothered. I'd've threaded the plug into a cap, to be able to grab it in a vise, hand drilled the hole, and tapped it by hand. The lathe would result in better threading, but to make a test adapter, doing it by hand is sufficient and much faster than setting up a lathe.
😂❤😅
As several other people have said, the most cost effective solution will be to ‘trim’ the faster motor so it runs at the same speed as the slower one. There must be an adjustable valve available for not too much money, and despite the fact that you haven’t fixed the cause of the problem, you will have alleviated the symptoms of the problem.
My thoughts exactly!
a restrictor valve , tied into the input and output of the faster motor.
A simple flow control valve would solve your problem.
You feather the levers to stay strait if one side is faster you slow down the fast side to stay strait it is cheaper than a valve or other parts
@@alphonsotate2982 Exactly. I've even seen some machines with limit bolts on the sticks that are adjustable. This is a pretty common occurance. Machine will just be a bit slower...but they're already pretty slow as it is.
I think we all appreciate how much time and attention you put into editing your videos with adding text and graphics. Your videos are so informative.
Hi, Try fitting an in Series Adjustable Valve to the Main Drive Feed Line of the 2 that's feeding your fastest (L/R) Travel Motor, and back it off until she hopefully tracks straight. It should not effect anything else re your Digging Controls obviously. Worth a try, and if you want to get really technical, then you can also toss in isolating Solenoid's to isolate this adjustment .. if required.
You may feel defeated, but you’re miles ahead of me. I’m always impressed with your ability to analyze the situation and think of alternative solutions to correct the issue. You are amazing dude!
I throughly enjoy your videos.
I love your videos, I’m a professional heavy equipment technician living in Sweden. I don’t see any of your test or troubleshooting paths to be wrong. But i would have started with a easy bucket test. Just lift the track and put the house drain from each motor to a bucket and run for any set amount of time and see any variations. If okey I would look in to see if there is any delta P adjustment to the pump. I guess that you will have separate. Electrical or mechanical throttle control of the pump outputs. The ls pressure (load sensing) pressure will set the angle of the pump the horsepower control on the out side should not be messed with. I might have done it 😂 I’m no expert on Yanmar but if you want any in put we could do a teams meeting or similar 😊 best regards from Joel
Ls pressure is nothing to do in thus case - Here is one one body pump,one rotor, one swash plate . Just on valve plate on pump has 2 channels for oil flow, these channels are quite close, they divide the diameter of the piston in the rotor into 2 parts and so from one rotor 2 flows are achieved. Even a slight scratch between these channels causes a leak between p1 and p2.
You are a phenomenal teacher in addition to being a jack of all trades. Thank you for sharing your expertise.
I 1000% agree, this man missed his calling in life to be a instructor or have his own school.
Thank you enjoy your teaching. Well done.
It's all about good video editing, that makes the difference.
Been thinking all along that probably John is also a professor at a nearby university.
Hi John, a 90 degree pipe fitting will restrict the oil flow compared to a straight fitting. The pipe for the left control valve has a 90 degree fitting so might be the cause of the problem. Keep up with the excellent videos.
Use your adaptor hoses to swap the lines without swapping the accumulator - my diag brain tells me that the accumulator might have something to do with it, and if the behavior changes if just the lines are swapped versus lines + accumulator, I would give that accumulator a good look.
I find myself as excited for your video on a Friday evening as I got waiting for MacGyver or Knight Rider in the 80’s
Given the age of the machine (and depending on how hard it was worked) you obviously have wear in components, however...
before exchanging expensive components: 1) bypass the accumulator (remove it and run direct to the port) and check the tracking 2) check hoses for replacements ( especially their Internal diameter) 3) If you can, slip the tracks off and mark the drive sprockets and check rotation speed with a tachometer (Ie without load) and see if they still differ 4) whilst tracks dismounted check all Idlers/track rollers are free rotating. Sometimes the simplest overlooked problem causes the biggest headaches John 😉 Tracking issues have plagued caterpillar machines since the were invented! 😒
I jumped on to say something similar always tach your unloaded sprockets and most tracking issues are result of resistance in the track system not the hydraulic side. You can test this by attaching a gauge to each drive hose and see if while tracking they have the same pressure. It seems you kind of eliminated this when you got it to track right but maybe the wear vs resistance is just enough to revert to “normal” on the one side when you switched them
@@alwayssomething3259 If that was the cause, why would it track wrong depending on which side the pump is connect to? If it was resistance, it would always track right or left, not switch sides with the pump.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 As I acknowledged that he had eliminated it as a potential by getting it to track the other way. It was more of a general statement that most people overlook and in most the machines I’ve had come in for tracking issues there’s a bad idler bearing or something not hydraulic related
That accumulator seems to be on the side that runs faster and seems to be the difference when switched. Iv run skid steers, excavators on a larger scale and after ten or so years every machine starts to get quirky. When you correct it may build up and slowly add extra pressure to the left track and bleed off. But every time you correct it builds pressure and starts over again causing an imbalance. Since you quite easily removed it once already may be the strong side is the problem. Just bar stool quarterbacking I really like how you work through the problem and don’t pull the trigger on the parts cannon. Good luck.
I came here to say this. I think he needs to try to isolate it, just to be sure.
My attention is drawn to the accumulator as well. Do accumulators go bad? Why is there an accumulator one one channel and not the other? Should there be two accumulators (thinking one may have gone missing due to a dodgy field repair)? My thoughts for what it's worth.
There should be two. Maybe it was a parts machine for previous owner and someone borowed it for other machine. Since it run on garbage lot the straight tracking would have not been an issue.
@@arty1799 i think this is only on one pump because this one pump do the digging and accumulator compensate pressure in the system to make work smooth.
@farmcraft try just for the test remove acumulator
@@arty1799 I was thinking the same thing. But is there enough space to fit two of these next to each other?
I just love your videos. Your logic and experiments and your detailed descriptions are just fantastic. You are a superb teacher. All in all, it makes me glad I spend the time and money to sneak onto your farm at night and make random tweaks to some of your equipment from time to time just to see how you figure out whats wrong.
Bahaha! So that was you I have on camera, and the police are now hunting for? ;-)
🤔😂😂😂😂
😅😅😅😅😅
😂😂😂
You'll never catch him because he runs with the coyotes. 😉
I saw that accumulator, and I think it could be that. Definitely worth looking into it.
You are such an inspiration and a great teacher. I only have 3 acres but because of your motivating videos I fixed my chain saw, moved my burn pile and got all my weed eating done today. I wish wish I had a little tractor. Anyway, A+++ thank you so much. When I cool off a bit I will be visiting your store. Keep it up please. I learn so much...
Bought a coffee cup. "That's not going anywhere" Thank you again for the great videos.
I been waiting for this one, my U35 tracks left almost as bad as that Yanmar does. Edit: after watching I am a little depressed 😂😂😂 Seriously, that was extremely interesting and very entertaining. You have now, with this Yanmar, taught me at least half of everything I know about hydraulics. You might not have got a KO this time but you are still a Champ. Thank you John.👏👏👏
Hydraulics are hard, but your John CAD drawings make them easier to understand. Great video!
Love the way you teach on simple paper and drawing ❤
I always learn something watching your videos. Today I learned that I don't know much about hydraulics.
I'll never work on a boom lift or final drive, but I gain so much from your videos. I like learning from your troubleshooting and appreciate how you go out of your way to bring the audience along with how you came to a solution. Keep up the great stuff, look forward to you every week!
Another potential option, as you found the control valve for the Left drive was weaker than the right hand side, is to switch the two control valves. Hopefully this would roughly equal out the weaknesses between both sides and have you tracking straighter at roughly the same speed
I've done that in the past to try and isolate a problem slow track motor ( drove in circles if enough space) despite pressures feed and return being the same at each motor and out of the valve chest.
Reversed the control , problem disappeared.. ran it like that when tracking out several kms.. then back in shop, we tore it down, returned the hoses back to standard.. worked as should.. for a week😢
Back in 80s we had the same problem with a little used Priestman 108.. that was solved when we replaced the valve chest from a salvaged unit. We also replaced hoses to both drives..
Hi there
Flow meter is the only real way to test a hydraulic system like I said on your last video , what you’ve spent on hoses would have gone towards a flow meter, if you get one try to buy one with a valve to load it up as you test the system , you might get the same flow but when you add load the flow may drop indicating and internal leak or performance issue , your spool looked dull on the bad side meaning wear in the spool/ valve , you don’t need a big leak past to create your problem , o ring seals between the spool slices can cause this also but really a flow meter is your biggest helper now and in the future,
Regards and all the best , Davy 🏴🇹🇭
Really appreciate you putting on two gauges to show the audience the real time difference. The time and effort you put in some of these videos is a really good thing to witness as a viewer. Keep it up!
Usually it's hard to watch long videos like this. But yours are interesting and entertaining all the way through
Tracking right? ... don't push so hard on the left stick!!!
Seriously though, a great video Jon. Excellent explanation, not only of how the system works, but also your thought processes in diagnosing the problem(s).
The really amazing thing is that you are prepared to give it a go, albeit with a generous amount of prior research. Although, sometimes it must make your head hurt, especially when things don't happen as you expect them to.
Love watching.
EJ
Long time ago on the Gardener Denver Hydratrac drill, we had a hose collapse internally just enough to drive you nuts on trying to steer it. Probably way out there as a solution but I remembered it from the 1980’s so I’m not totally forgetting things yet.
Maybe you could install a simple controllable stop (gate/ball) valve on the strong pump line side and then tune it down to match the flow to the weak side? Yes, it will slightly slow the travel speed overall, but you might be able to tune it to track straight (at least at full speed)? (A fixed restrictor plate insert might work too, but you'd have to find the right orifice size and then it's permanent and non-adjustable)
I just posteda comment with a similar idea. My thought is also to manually tune the output after the valves to match the motors by restricting the stronger side.
My idea is very similar except I would install a pressure relief value on the line leading to the strong side's control value to induce a leak back to the hydraulic tank. You would then adjust the relief value to release enough pressure to weaken the strong side to match the weak side.
You can just stack a flow control valve under the spool valve, they're designed to stack the controls you want, adding prvs wouldn't be completely reliable and would limit the power instead of flow (speed)
i had a problem with brakes on my truck, rears locked up way faster than the fronts so i put an adjustable proportioning valve in the line to the rear then adjusted the flow restriction till they matched, you could do the same thing in the forward direction hydraulic feed to the faster motor and adjust it till they speed match
@@cesargallo7424 can almost guarantee there is already a tracking adjustment, either with a manual flow control valve to speed up or slow down one side (this machine), or a solenoid voltage adjustment in software, if a newer piece of equipment. I'd still be testing the travel motors considering the state of care they've received so far. Edited to add: worked on a track loader with the same issue, customer paid for troubleshooting but no repairs as it was almost 30 years old. Adjusted to as close as possible, and sent it. Figured he'd use it for a few more years to make the money to buy a whole new machine
the thing I'm learning from your videos is you don't let the thing beat you, if its not one thing it has to be the next one, that's great
Hi John, You could install a throttle valve on the supply line to the right motor. Might slow the whole rig down, but could be adjusted to make it track straight. Love your stuff. Doug
I agree
That's right. Restrict the flow of the faster final drive to match the slower one.
Edit: I just also note that a flow restrictor valve does increase the temperature of the fluid going through it, and the temperature increases rapidly the more your restrict it. I am not a hydraulics mechanic, just something I thought to mention.
how about swapping the spools? Might be something microscopic you're missing.
I think a simpler solution would have been to put a spacer on the lever so that both work at same speed. Sorta like reduce the right just enough to match how the left is. idk lol
Maybe the side that is slower is to slow for tramming long distances.
This does work when on hard ground, but only for one speed and not in the mud
i'm thinking adjustable stop screw in front of the faster side lever.
Operators just learn to hold back on the faster side. Precious few excavators track evenly in my experience over the decades.
as workaround okay, but you would'nt have identified the problem.
The experts at heavy equipment forum need to fly in and save the day. What a great video that would be.
God that was an interesting video, I do like long videos, and these are so educational and explained in layman’s terms. Love everything about it. It’s perfect.
John your trouble shooting skills are beyond reproach , These classes your teaching are awesome ,ya can't win them all John
I love the digger repair videos, John!
Keep them coming 😊😊
It is really wonderful to watch you think thru these issues. Your mind is going to keep working on this.
A company named "Teslong" makes some killer bore scopes (for firearms) that are hella cheap. They would be great for the bore inspections, among other things. Especially the flex shaft one.
Well... I noticed the dig in the last video at the hydraulic mechanics (and hydraulic designers such as myself) warning you that diagnosing hydraulics strictly by pressure was a dangerous mistake. You set your limits by pressure to prevent damage to components. You diagnose poor performance by finding the problems with flow. Pressure is just the resistance to flow. No resistance, no pressure. Full resistance, full pressure (and relief). Pumps are designed to move fluid from one place to another to transfer power remotely. A system can still meet pressure requirements while not providing adequate flow if there is enough restriction. After all, those pumps may be governed to relieve at 3500psi, but they're fully capable of providing far more than that at their designed flow rates (until failure occurs). 3500psi is a cake walk to them, even when the components are worn. Measure your case drains to diagnose worn pumps and motors easily. Deadhead the component and dump the case drain into a 5 gallon bucket for an exact duration of time at the specified rpm. There will be a spec sheet when you look up the pump or motor that tells you what the case drain rate should be. If you want the easy dirty solution out of this, just install a pair of two-way (non-checked) flow control valves in-line with the fast motor and adjust manually. it'll cost you 120 bucks in valves and 60 bucks in fittings. put them right off the motor so they're easy to tweak on demand and so you don't need to buy 4 hoses to replace the 2 original hoses. it won't hurt anything. as far as the machine is concerned, it will think it's going up a half-a-degree hill all the time on that side. you could do just one, but the motor would still act with a tiny bit of bias in one direction, due to the case drain. www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Control-Needle-Valve-Ports/dp/B07WWHH1NZ?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1VH34FQCDTBWO that's an example. it doesn't mention if it's got a locking set screw or not. you'd preferably want one that can be locked where you like it, and rated for the right gpm rate and hose size, obviously.
To check the motors you could block the leakhoses and see how much oil comes out of each motors leak in the course of 10-30 seconds. You would have to put the excavator up on Jack stands.
Yep, that's a good test to see overall condition of the motor.
It would be TH-cam gold for you to produce a video on how to evaluate a used excavator prior to purchase. You certainly know a lot about them
Jon, you are a really smart and fearless guy... and as others have noted, an excellent teacher!! I learn from you every time. Thank you!
Comment for the algorithm to help the channel 👍.
All hail the algorithm.
Check you service manuals for the cycle times for the digger services, if you know the pressures are good then cycle times can help to evaluate pump flow performance.remember pressure is power flow is speed. Stay away from adjusting the regulator at the pump changing this just adds another variable to the mix,without a flow meter you are only guessing if the cycle times are within spec then move to the next test in the literature there is usually a section that says evaluating performance in the book.
Hats off to you. You put far more time and effort into this then me or the person I know.
Fascinating Jon...love your logical problem solving skills. Thanks for all the effort you put into these projects
You are a very talented man and a great teacher I love watching your videos you explain everything so well without technical language it is a great pleasure to watch your videos.
Had some similar issues with my bobcat, the more I thought about it the more I scared myself into taking both pumps and motors to a rebuild shop. Since the motor is directly downstream of the pump (more or less) without a filter between them, if the pump starts to degrade and send particles into the motor now you have two ruined components instead of two rebuildable components. It was about $4k to have all of them rebuilt but the peace of mind is sure worth it. Side note I spy a Caterpillar in the background that we haven’t been introduced to what’s up with that?😁
Checkout your Hawkeyes :)
at 32:11 in the video is that cat dozer on a trailer ?
@@mmm365 correct they have a variable displacement pump and no control valve but they are similar in that that pump outlet goes directly to the motor.
@@dannyscott1159 looks to be a d3 from the 80’s I would guess
@@corywillbanks6348close. '70s. D3C changed that right rear fender to a straight panel instead of an angled panel
Excellent teacher and communicator
Great video. Very educational.
Your videos are so good. I get so happy every friday😂.
Great video, man. We’ve missed you.
Hello John!
A suggestion to you: Install an adjustable bleed valve that diverts some oil from the fast side back to the oil tank.
Too advanced for my little brain. Hats off to you, sir.
I found your channel when you were doing the Cannon project and have been subscribed ever since. Love your content!
As always, great video! Sometimes things don't work out how we want them to, but at least it still can do the job!
I love how you draw out your trouble shooting on paper really helps make great videos! I do the same thing… must be because we are engineers!
You are a great teacher and very smart dude.Thank you
Have you checked the mechanical linkages from levers to shuttles? Perhaps not fully opening due to wear in linkages
I did check that in a previous video. Forgot to mention that in this one as I should have.
I enjoy watching your videos as they show working on and with different equipment
Again excellent troubleshooting and workmanship. I always love your videos.
You swapped the hoses a couple of times. Why didn't you swap the spools?
Love the hydraulic videos, I have just worked on auto brakes, but this is far beyond that. These are great to watch.
Can't win them all and your honesty is to be commended.
I'm thinking you will revisit this in the future, as you don't give up easily.
Thanks for another video full of trials and tribulations
The vacuum leak prevention is great glad it has saved you plenty of time and mess 👍
Best videos on TH-cam. Thank you!
So glad you learned the vacuum thingy, would have been great on the swivel repair. I used to have an invertor and a small shop vac for just such an occasion. Great videos!!!
Hey John. Love your videos! I have been working in the Industrial hydraulics world for a couple years now (only since 1985) and i hopefully picked up a few things along the way. I would make only one suggestion. I noticed the model number tag on the pump and it looks like its a KYB? I would attempt to contact their US Sales team to get the straight skinny on that pump from them. I am thinking there may be a null adjustment on that pump somewhere. The HP limiter is usually associated with the compensator not the max stop adj which appeared to be the adj you were tweaking.
You're honesty and attention to details are great. I couldn't stop watching and understanding your frustrations. Using equipment for a living you want it to perform how it should. Thanks
I would prop the excavator up so both tracks could spin and test each side with a tachometer to determine wether the rpm of each side are exactly the same. Or disconnect the track and test each drive sprocket . This would determine a hydraulic issue or a drive train issue, wouldn’t cost anything to test but would rule out 50% of the equation. I’m a toolmaker by trade and have 0 experience with heavy machinery just love watching this channel the man’s a legend
Some how I got the feeling that you are not going to give up on this tracking issue😂
Considering you said that probably there is internal oil leakage of some sort, I thought that maybe an oil a bit thicker might help, like what is done with very old and worn engines
your diagnostic skill and persistance is amazing, hat off sir!
Thanks again for all the details . Easy for me to say but don't give up. Look at all you have accomplished etc man lift!
I really enjoy watching your videos. You are an excellent teacher with about 10x more patience that I. It really doesn't matter what your subject is the teaching is the star of your channel. I really think you can fix anything. I hope NASA has your number, ya know, just incase.
You still have a common item though between everything. Your hoses. If one is pinched or internally damaged then the pressure would be near right but the flow rate could be skewed
Wow, this was an increadibly good video tutorial. Thank you.
You're a hard working guy, the knowledge u have on various projects u work on is immerse.
Purchasing your hydraulic testing kit might have tempted Murphy, thus increasing the amount of hydraulic breakdowns you’re experiencing. Hope you and yours have a great Memorial Day weekend. Thinking of those who lost their lives in defense of our country, while enjoying that barbecue.
Great video John, thank you for posting. Yes be careful around hydraulic pressure, a colleague was working on a Oil Well mud Pump, Hydraulic pressure was required to change a piston rod ( 24000 psi) yes you did read that right, a line burst and he nearly lost his arm, with fluid injection injuries it is not apparent at first how serious it is, if it happens get to the Hospital ASAP.
Absolutely correct, people who run airless paint sprayers need to be aware of this issue too. Knew a painter who was running his hand down the line to the spray gun and got a paint injection injury when his hand hit a bad spot. He didn't work for a couple years.
Thanks for this facinating video!
Keep researching this problem , I have tons of faith in you and you'll learn more and more.
Nothing is simple for first time,, you have a good head on your shoulders,, and the desire to fix anything.
So frustrating! But loved the process!
My first thought has been to check the hoses for restrictions. Reason I came to mind is I was working on a four-wheeler with a plastic gas tank and the carburetor kept getting clogged so I started taking the hose off and it was blocked. Then I went into the gas tank and it was a mess but I never thought of it because we run ethanol free gasoline in those. It turns out another friend of ours has a Sea-Doo and he ran into the exact same problem. So bottom line check your hoses. Make sure there's no obstructions in them.
thanks John, i dont have a digger but i feel i do now.
One other thing to look at, are all the hydraulic lines correct (internal size etc) have any of the lines collapsed, both could cause a slight restriction.
You are a very patient man. I have dealt with this problem before and went through many of the same steps you have. The tension of the springs within the relief valves can be a variable.
Also 8/10 mini excavators I've ever dealt with wouldn't track straight.
Well detailed and appreciated. ty
Keep the vids comin'.
Good on you, Jon. What I really enjoy is your ability to look. You could call it analysing. You look until you find something that makes sense which is admirable. It's actually a very high level skill which is proved when someone doesn't do it and spends $$$ to get no result.
Wow, that’s very frustrating to do all that work and get no where. I have a similar video about my friends JLG lift. Luckily for him I was too stubborn to give up even though it took about a year to fix. I feel like you are just as stubborn and will find a solution…. or get a different excavator! Hehe
Why not put an adjustable flow restrictor in the faster side, and adjust to get decent tracking?
There are 15K psi adjustable needle valves, as I've used one for an adjustable expansion valve in a homebrew refrigeration system.
That was a real "Who's on First" video but I learned a lot and was able to follow it. Thanks.
Simply amazing and so beautiful. 👏👏
25:17 Bennett Equipment & Supply salesperson: I told you those free notepads would come in handy. We just got free advertising on that Farmcraft guy's channel.
Jokes aside, Farmcraft guy, thanks for your videos.
Could there possibly be a slight different ratio in the drive gears that the tracks are attached to? Maybe from different wear pattern on the gears or tracks. Or maybe the tracks aren't exactly the same length? Maybe take it to a front end alignment shop? I don't know, I have never worked on one of these machines. But I enjoy the heck out watching you work on all your projects!!!!!
Another excellent video. I do have one suggestion, it's so simple that I would have thought someone would have suggested it to you with all the research you have done, but here it is. Why don't you mechanically limit the travel on one of the levers, put a hard stop in, to hold back slightly the motor that is traveling too fast, to equalize the flow and eliminating the effect. It's obviously a band-aid and not a real repair, but at least it would fix your problem that's driving you crazy, and can be adjusted as it wears further. That's the only cheap and 'easy' solution I can think of.
i like trying to problem solve along with you. I'm glad I thought of using the ext hoses!
I am fighting this with the mono block valve in my TLB right now. Obviously different but have tracked it down to a crack in between the crowd and curl casting sections of the mono block after the 4th time having it out of the machine. Hang in there. You got this
Hi I'm no expert but I caught a glimpse from a distance from the rear of your excavator and noticed, it looks like the left track is different from the right, it looks narrower then the right or maybe worn more then the right. Just fyi.
Have you checked the left side track? Stiff track links or idlers (from sitting in water or getting rained on more than the other side) can make that side slow and it will pull toward the side that's stiff.
If it was that it would keep pulling to that side even when he swapped hoses, pumps, etc.
You are the best. Thank you for sharing
You are the only person other than me I've seen use the vacuum trick!!
I use this when changing coolant components on large equipment. Even repair radiator without draining the system. Sweet
Look to see if there is an adjustment on your linkage your forward handles when you push them all the way forward and see if there is an adjustment there.