@@Mitsuru-Miki not really, it would be hard to burn every book and delete everything about his stories. Even harder to remove them from other People's minds. Tolkien even said that Eru is the narrator
Abid Khan Melkor, with Tulkas and Ungoliant, could not command even a bit of his true strenght. Otherwise he would have annhilated them with only his thought.
Jake Alter True. But when I say strenght I mean his spiritual power; not physical strenght alone. During Melkor's fight with Tulkas, Melkor lacks his original power, bestowed to him by Ilùvatar. Furthermore, Ungoliant was empowered by the power of Melkor himself, who weakened himself in order to transfer his strenght to the giant spider.
It’s just surprising how mere humans/elves fought an army of Immortal Orcs, Fire Drakes, Werewolves, phantoms, and Balrogs, each one counting to the thousands AND fought a Fallen God (plus 2 demons who commanded his armies) before getting ANY help from the Valar. They did this for thousands of years..... I’m impressed.
@@Shamman2077 Except they didn't. Morgoth a lone can just kill them in 1 sec but he want to rule them. also Eru would have prevented him form killing them, just like he prevented him from destroying the entire Arda.
h7oda mazika- What do you mean they didn’t? He sent armies of thousands perhaps millions against the free people and killed thousands. (War of sudden flame, war of the jewels, war of wrath) and yes he wanted to rule them but only through submission (last I checked: they openly defied him) And Eru never truly interfered during ANY of this, he would only interfere if Valanor was being attacked but even then it would be a slim chance he would come to the rescue. P.S. Morgoth was severely wounded by an elf during a duel so I find it hard that he could destroy them all on his own🙄
@@Shamman2077 Morgoth harmed by very strong elf when he had less than 1% of his original power(he spent all of his power on corrupting the entire universe). and Eru would have interfered if he know that all of men and elves (his children which he loves more than the valars) gonna die and the valars can't help them. the thing is Morgoth never used his true power against them because the valars gonna fight him. the elves and men however held their own for a good time against most of his armies. but they never killed a balrog except when balrogs wasn't considered a maiar and was in thousands or hundreds (not just 7 balrogs at most)
I mean... He kind of is, since at the Time of events of LOTR - Morgoth was banished. Sauron was only Dark Lord left. But yeah, Morgoth is much stronger
He is Morgoth wasn’t as intelligent as Sauron his manipulation attempts almost always failed he had a good military mind I’ll give him that but he still wasn’t as cunning or clever as Sauron he thought brute force would win the day yes he was extremely powerful but that’s really all he was
@@Zerathos-e7n yes he had a better strategic mind than Sauron and was physically stronger I already said that .Sauron served Morgoth throughout the 1st age but after he only used his memory to control others. He may have worshiped Morgoth at first but it’s pretty clear if you read between the lines that he came to resent him towards the end of the 1st age it’s possible that if Morgoth won the war of wrath Sauron would have betrayed him Tolkien even said Sauron at the end of the 2nd age was stronger than Morgoth at the end of the 1st.
@@sacr4450 Michael demiurge? If thats the Michael you are talking about michael curbstomps so hard it ain't even funny(like really? A guy who couldn't even make a full fledged universe vs a guy who has a power inside him that could destroy all of dc which is infinite 10 times over. Yeah sounds fair)
Look, according to the movies, seeing how he fell from 3 kilometers while wrestling with a fire demon, gandalf should be able to deflect shotgun shells with his skin. Yeah, swords are not going to do anything.
him saying "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, Wielder of the Flame of Anor" probably did more than his sword did to beat the Balrog. The "secret Fire" is the flame imperishable- the Fire that Eru Ilúvatar used to create all life and then set in the center of Ea.
When Christopher Tolkien said that the Valar are as powerful as the old gods from ancient Greek, Norse, and Egyptian pantheons. I assumed they were at the most planet-to-star level of power. But after looking into the lore and feats they did and watching this video after all of that. Wow, Morgoth (and by extension the rest of the valar) are OP asf!
i think tolkien meant that forms they take in arda are around equal to the gods in mythology, cause the actual forms of the valar are almost unstoppable cause by comparing the valar to the greek gods for example i cant see the greek gods even standing up to the valar unless its the valar in arda cause then its more of a even playing field. but holy hell melkor is packing hard no wonder eru doesn’t allow his to regenerate his powers
@@fayhlennokctra7344 Funnily enough, the Valar together don't stand against some deities of mythology. Zeues could shake an infinity by tilting his head. That was leading above the capabilities of the Valar and Melkor together. Their non-physical forms are non-physical.
@@pyktukasplays4945 the Spiritual forms and the forms outside arda are very different the valar outside of arda have a form just not one that is set in stone unlike zeus who has a form he was born with the valar dont, also we havnt seen any valar fight outside of arda cause that means death for everyone of a unkown wide radius, and by combining all the power’s of the valar such as manipulating fate, space, time they have incredible power especially when these powers get enhanced while outside of arda especially melkor since ge has all the other powers of the valar, zeis shakng infinity is incredibly impressive but that is where tve greek mythology power scale becomes a fucking mess, hercules has done something similar, atlas aswell, and there are multiple beings far more powerful then zeus, tartarus, gaia, typhoon
There is another detail missed in the video, those who looked into Morgoth's eyes lost their sanity, all but the most powerful entered in a dark pit of terror. But note that Elf, Men or Dwarf (or even Hobbit) has an above average terror resistance compared to we human, but they still collapsed. Compared to Morgoth Cthulhu is just a jelly bug.
How about the King of the Dark Below, the Low Elder god with seven brides, the Scarlet King from the SCP Foundation tales? I bet of we were using his war on creation story Melkor and the Valar would be truly terrified of his presence.
The only God that I can really think in HP lovecraft’s universe to hurt or even kill Morgoth is Azathoth the blind idiot god. Azathoth created existence without a mere thought because he is blind. His slumber is creation and once he awakes. The structures of the universe would fall apart before him.
@Gasper Vidovic um yeah. I’ve read the necronomicon And I can guarantee that almost every god can end the world and make us humans loose our sanity. Sure The Feats displayed by the Cthulhu Mythos is beyond the Ainur Pantheon. But that doesn’t mean that they can put up a good fight. The Ainurs shaped the universe no... They created existence through the first music. Believe it or not but We can’t really compare both Eru and Azathoth. Eru is the benevolent Ruler of existence that is always perfect while Azathoth is the blasphemous God of Idiotic and Blind nature that can end universe if not retaken into slumber. Melkor in his deific self molded existence and everything. They went beyond the manifestations of reality and existence. The Ainurs just got really super underpowered in Arda. But if we compare The Ainurs vs Cthulhu pantheon then.... I’ll let you decide.
More people need to watch this video. The amount of arguments I’ve gotten into with people who have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to Melkor is just insane. He might not have feats like ones we see in comic books (Marvel and DC especially) but he is easily at the top when it comes to power levels.
The videe has plenty of misinfomration. It shouldn't be takne seriously. And no, Melkor wouldn't be at the top of power levels in either DC or Marvel. He doesn't feats like thsoe of some comic characters because he isn't as powerful as them.
@@AM-jz5wz What? The person needed to be corrected. Melkor wouldn't at be the top of power at neither Marcel nor DC. He, and the rest of the Vakar, are just too weak. Of course, they are powerful in Tolkien's stories and world, but that's because the world itself is very weak.
I think it would be cool for the community to write a book where melkor returns. Seeing as all of his dark magic faded from middle earth it had to go back somewhere? What if he was just waiting for it all to return so he would be as strong as he once was at his peak. I think it would be cool to see humanity with their arrogance refer to sauron and the dwarves as fairy tales, only for melkor to return after breaking free. Kind of like how we say history repeats itself
the king of utub e nah, Melkor was so powerful he could face off against all the other Valar until the arrival of Tulkas, Morgoth was damaged by Fingolfin
I don't believe that they are outerversal that's a overstatement if you ask me. I'm okay with them saying they are Multiversal or low hyperversal but outerversal that a step too far. You went from A to B to C to Z all of a sudden.
@@aethiluvatar yes we can't make up words cause that is biased, Also if the Valar we're in their true form(Ainur), they are Outerversal if you ask me they literally sing all universe and dimensions to existence.
@Association of Free People I read Silmarillion, but there is no Ainur left in the timeless halls the Silmarillion says that the last Ainur who descended in Arda are tulkas. (I think)
They need to make a movie exploring this character,pre Lord of The Rings,be cool to see how Sauron started as well seeing his other side working for Morgoth.
Awesome upload Vividen ! Even althrough Morgoth is being a total unintelligent moron and be idiotic enough to challange the *God* itself... but at the very least he created the adorable dragons and very cute and cuddly Orcs; so; one point to him
@Mordraug I'm of the opinion that Eru is omnipotent, but not omniscient - I think he didn't know that Melkor would rebel, he just wanted company because he was lonely. But then again, there's a lot of talk of the destiny of the world in the lotr universe, but as far as I understand fate is not necessarily set in stone. That's what I like most about that universe rather than the supposed omniscient and omnipotent God of our world - Eru is a much more sympathetic and benevolent deity.
@Harogrim he was literally corruption personified, eru knew exactly what he was doing in creating melkor, I don't personally think he could predict everything but he had enough power abd knowledge over that which he created to know what the general turn of events would be
Yes. Morgoth, being some sort of Satan of his universe (quite literally), should be second only to Eru Iluvátar (God) himself. If Lord of the Rings took place in space, Morgoth's power would be more obvious and explicit.
@@h7oda793 well, he has no that kind of explicit power and humans still have free will and can reject or receive his offers, but Morgoth is, in some sense, clearly satan equivalent I think.
@@baltofarlander2618 Another big deference is that one is real and the other is fake and more than 4 billion people on this earth believe that Satan exists (Muslims and Christians and Jews)
Varda alone ALWAYS HAD HIM AFRAID AND JEALOUS. And it was described that Galadriel was the only Elf to understand Eru best, very well. Yes, they had contact. And she unlike others studdied under/with the Maiar and Valar alike, actually surpassing Feànor and living longer than he did by many more ages as time is told differently back then verses the earlier ages we are more familiar with, she ends up stronger with more experience and MORE TIME ADDED TO HER GROWING WISDOM. Whicu became overdrived by all the elves experiences.
How about they make the valaquenta, oath of feanor, beren and luthien, children of hurin, fall of gondolin, war of wrath, the entire second age instead?
Varda : evil, mortal and dirty things will be burned if they touch these rocks. Morgoth : "Ow! Better put them in a crown so they won't hurt me anymore."
Melkor is kinda of stupid when comes to contingency plans and strategic planning. He just went all stupid and divided his power up into his armies too much. What he should of been doing was trying to collect some power if wanted to one shot all the Valar at once.
Propaganda Slayer In the Silmarillion Illuvitar states that all things come from him, so it would be more accurate to say Melkor is darkness and Illuvitar is light and darkness
So ima try to make parallels with Marvel: Eru Iluvitar = The One Above All Ainur = The Celestials Elves = Asgardians/Eternals/Inhumans/etc Is this more or less correct?
I was thinking of a scenario where Scion from _Worm_ fights Morgoth. A badly-crippled fallen Vala would _still_ curb-stomp a Sufficiently-Advanced Alien. Such is the power of veritable gods sent to govern creation by The One.
I am the most powerful character in fiction way more powerful than erue iluvatar I don’t care what anyone says about him being the most powerful in this universe I’m far greater than him
This makes me think that the dragons of the War Of The Wrath must he super powerful if they could hold back the Valar in their physical avatar forms by working together.
I'm not sure if the Valar themselves actually fought the dragons or if they only showed up at the end to take out Morgoth personally. If the dragons did actually fight them, though, that's only more support for solar system+ Ancalagon.
+will maz Tulkas did, at the end of the battle itself. He defeated him pretty easily. Earendil never encountered Morgoth personally--maybe you're thinking of Ancalagon the Black.
@@TheVividen I was thinking about who went to fight in the war not who personally got (not hard due to his state)Morgoth.Got Earendil mixed up with Eonwe who I think was the bannerman of Manwe.Personally Morgoth reminds me of the Nazis and there change in power.
+will maz Okay, gotcha. Yeah, Eonwe was the Maia who led the war effort. And that does make sense--Tolkien was heavily emotionally invested in both world wars, so there are many echoes of the tactics involved as well as traumatic events.
@@baltofarlander2618 The Scarlet king would probably see Melkor as a bug to be stepped on. I can see Melkor getting extremely scared and rather work with the valar then become a slave to some low elder god who is absolutely insane and wishes destruction and death upon all of creation.
This was absolutely amazing. Thumbs upped, & can you please do the same for Sauron? Sauron and Melkor are two of the most powerful/important beings in Arda, yet I find Tolkien was very vague when describing the extent of their abilities, and what exactly they were capable of. Plus, Sauron is basically the Melkor of the Maia (Most powerful and intelligent, but corrupted)
The part about Valar being equal to mythologal gods is from _"Morgoth's Ring"_ . Here are the paragraphs it is from: _"It is in fact simply part of the portrayal of the imaginary world of the Silmarillion, and an example of the kind of thing that enquiring minds on either side, the Elvish or the Human, must have said to one another after they became acquainted. We see here the attempt of a generous Elvish mind to fathom the relations of Elves and Men, and the part they were designed to play in what he would have called the Oienkarme Eruo (The One's perpetual production), which might be rendered by 'God's management of the Drama'."_ _"There are certain things in this world that have to be accepted as 'facts'. The existence of Elves: that is of a race of beings closely akin to Men, so closely indeed that they must be regarded as physically (or biologically) simply branches of the same race. The Elves appeared on Earth earlier, but not (mythologically or geologically) much earlier; they were 'immortal', and did not 'die' except by accident. Men, when they appeared on the scene (that is, when they met the Elves), were, however, much as they now are: they 'died', even if they escaped all accidents, at about the age of 70 to 80. The existence of the Valar: that is of certain angelic Beings (created, but at least as powerful as the 'gods' of human mythologies), the chief of whom still resided in an actual physical part of the Earth. They were the agents and vice-gerents of Eru (God). They had been for nameless ages engaged in a demiurgic labour completing to the design of Eru the structure of the Universe (Ea); but were now concentrated on Earth for the principal Drama of Creation: the war of the Eruhin (The Children of God), Elves and Men, against Melkor. Melkor, originally the most powerful of the Valar, had become a rebel, against his brethren and against Eru, and was the prime Spirit of Evil."_
@@imperatordei6615 you should pick only illlusion, destruction and conjuration magic. The mace should have fire damage. Regarding skills, everything in the mentioned skill trees should do.
This should be having the exact opposite affect on me but this video just made me love this villain even more. Not me now imagining the series but in Berserk style.. ah one can dream.
3..... 2..... 1..... Now!!! Here come the angry Marvel and Star Wars fans that try to bring up useless points about how their own characters can beat Melkor.
@@farahahmed8201 Yo. How do you know lol hi. I argued with that idiot for 24 hours straight and we still couldnt agree. He thought Darth Sidious Would Beat Sauron. The only valid argument that he could make was that Sidious can create black holes. But Sauron is intangible in nearly alll of his forms. So Black Holes would have little to no effect on Sauron. Anyway, Yeah LOL hi doesnt know what hes talking about.
@@smp_legendary4421 hey I've had a week long argument with lol hi on sauron vs sidious and with me also he was only saying that sidious can create black holes
@@philipbertrand2680 Yes, Morgoth was still much stronger, but he is now equal to the other valar. Sauron is the strongest maiar, so the first behind the valar. I don't really call that a child compared to Morgoth.
Exactly. They often overlap, however. If you're flying through space at ten thousand times the speed of light, for example, you need to be able to react to objects in your way.
Basically, he is only second to Eru illuvatar, so why and how was he defeated? Somewhat of a rhetorical question, but I'm interested in anyone's input.
To put it simply he lost due to the fact how divine power works is imagine if you have a glass and how big the glass is is how much power you can have this being the water Now good maiar and valar have access to the sink provided by Eru so they can recover their power at any point and time when they need it If you are evil like morgoth’s you lose the sink privileges and thus must find other methods to get clean water and that takes time Morgoth everytime he uses his powers he was losing some of it and couldn’t recover his divine strength as he once did given most of its source was with eru He could get it back but it’s so gradual it be like watching something download on your game console for 24 hours the pain or waiting before you can play something and then realize once you download it if you want to play something else you may have to delete that and start all over That’s what’s it’s like Not to mention he put most of his power in all existence to corrupt it this weakened him but it gave strength to his armies He lost given he knew he would eventually be overpowered given he is losing his power But if he never lost it then he be in a stalemate with the valar forever hence why him losing his power was due to eru not replenishing it
In the dagor dagorath he doesn’t come back as 'crippled morgoth'. He gets his powers back. Tolkien mentioned in one of his letters morgoth can not only recharge but gather back into him the power he disseminated into arda
@@thunderweasel866 But we don't know how accurate this video is about it. Because with other forms there were many mistakes. But even with these misconceptions, Goku is more powerful than the other two.
True form ? nevet heard of it , you mean the valar how they were in the void before the universe i guess ? Also in the final battle in the last age, Melkor fight Tulkas again and duke it out with him, so i guess he regains his lost power . Imo this is a bit of an god modding, i don't thinkTolkin meant for Melkor anf the Valar to be quite this powerfull imo
That is because he is basically trying to show how OP melkor CAN be. Melkor obviously was never intended to be this powerful, but due to tolkein's wording, all of this conclusions are completely possible. It is obviously not how he planned it but it is how it can be viewed.
i always was a HUGE fan of Sauron, because i thought he was a badass! but holy sh*t this guy Melkor/Morgoth is made of pure awesomeness! i would worship him! lol
@@taelorpickel2830 The person above wanted to worship an evil character because of their power. I tried to explain that there are kind characters who are more powerful. So more worthy of _"worship"_ .
Idk true form darkseid exists outside of the whole dc multiverse....he one time fell into the multiverse and the multiverse broke like a piece of wood would when you sit on it
@@TheCommun3 True form Melkor is below the almighty Eru Illuvatar, true form Darkseid is still below Perpetua, and even she is below true form Melkor. Perpetua was defeated in some storyline, but Melkor is nigh omnipotent
True Form Darkseid can be taken as the concept of evil, the void of goodness. That makes him definitely beyond lesser dimensions. There is a good philosophical video explaining that. Anyways, Melkor at his origin is meant to be beyond concepts as mentioned at the end. Basically it goes this way: True Form Darkseid < God of War Olimpian God's (not God of War 4). How things are explained in the novels and how the creators described them. ("SethTheProgrammer" did a mostly decent summary of that information about the power of God of War main character Kratos). < Some random other beyond-dimensional beings with extreme power. < Melkor at his orgin as it is interpreted by the Vividen. Or Vividen's interpretation of that.
@@pyktukasplays4945 Melkor is the embodiment of evil outside Arda just as true form Darkseid is. Eru is the Almighty, there is an infinite gap between Him and Melkor + Darkseid. But oh well, that might just be my interpretation.
also he didn't just shape shift, they can create them as an entire new beeing with totally different abilities and a from ground on different spiritual form - i think the different is that a shape shifter not nessarlilly have more powers or if just a bit more, but by a shape shifter all beings are all there at the same time and they can fast switch back and forth - by Melkor the outher Valar or Majar it cost a lot of energy and they stay often a really long time in one form, it's a totally new Creation of their appearance and their spirit and everything.
The last form was wanked beyond measure. You added string theory?. String theory isn't scientifically proven even for us and you used it to scale melkors strength?. I'll just stop to the second form for power scaling. And even at the second form you up him up a bit too much still. When the other valar fought him in his second form, the damaged the battle caused was strictly involving ARDA only. No mention of universal scale damage what so ever. The valar and him are planet level at best by feats alone. No reason spicing things up by making wild speculations .
True. But then again, the vividen shows us in this video bit the power level they have by feats, rather the power level they COULD have by interpretation of the words tolkein wrote. With the right perspective, you can reach the same conclusion as him, and even if it's far from Tolkien's view of that matter, it is still a plausible result.
@@alucard347 If that's true and you indeed consider melkor multiversal. Then Explain to me, why did he got diminished so much, up to the point that fingoflin, a mere mortal creature , was able to wound him. Seriously now. Let's be honest here. If you have multiversal levels of power, then creating a few monsters on such a small place like ARDA which is literally like a grain of sand if you compare it to the universe , not to mention the multiverse, it shouldn't have diminished him one bit. Please explain to me the logic behind it , cause I literally can't. If we take into account other multiversal entities like Phoenix force from marvel for example. It literally has the power to destroy and reshape parts of the multiverse, with no trouble what so ever. So no. Unless better evidence are provided, I'll stick with my previous claim.
@@FusionTM_REDRUM again: the vivden didn't showed us an absolute proof for melkor being so powerful, nor do I believe him to be so powerful. he simply said that, if we take the text litterally, we can reach to the point in which he is depicted as a multiversal entity. which is amusing to think about. however, as of HOW could he have been diminished so much, well, here is why: morgoth was not diminished for creating entire races, even races like dragons, who can equal to the maiar, and the strongest of them was greater then any maiar. by the time he created those beings, he was already so diminished that a fight against Fingolfin was an actual threat to him. No, he was diminished in power LONG before. when? well, at the begining. When the entierty of existence was made, not just earth, but Ea, aka, everything that there is, Things like death, pain, fear, chaos, etc were not a thing. After Melkor's initial attempt of free jazz in the middle of the song of the ainur, he was forced to play along with everyone as Eru wanted. Only afterwards, when Ea was already fixed and made, he entered into it and started to corrupt it. Instead of creating it corrupted with the rest of the ainur, he allowed them to create a perfect world, and then he created the concepts he wanted to introduce. Tell me, can the phoenix force, or Galactus, create new concepts? no, they can't. At their lowest they are multiversal forces who can bend the laws of physics. At their best they are abstract concepts. Melkor CREATED abstract concepts. But he could not TRUELY create something new. No one can. So what he did was tear himself appart, and form parts of his existence he torn away from himself into new concepts and enforce them into all of existence. Hence why Ea is incomplete. After doing so, Melkor was vastly diminished. And when he was doing so, while also destroying the lamps, creating entire races, corrupting and turning dozens of maiar into beasts of fire and chaos, while also fighting against all Valar at the same time, it drained him from his powers, and eventally led to him being beaten, far weaker then he initially was. later on, his powers continued to diminish when he was exposed to the powers of Varda, when he puts the three silmarili on his head for centuries non stop, and then continued to create entire maiar like races. it was at that point when he himself took away so much of his existence that he became just an empty shell of the being h once was, so much so that fingolfin actually posed a threat to him. and in that weakned state of his, the injuries fingolfin gave him were too grave to just heal off, and took more pieces of his existence, and made him even weaker then before. so much so, that second age sauron was in fact stronger then Morgoth of the end of the first age. Hope this explanation helped.
@@alucard347 Also, I would like to add , that the valar have no control over time and space what so ever in that universe of Eru. They can only manipulate the raw matter in it, and that's about it. They might not be bound to it . But they certainly cannot manipulate it to full extent as they please. Cause if they could, they would most certainly have done it in order to rectify melkors actions. So they are not reality wrappers as people claim them to be. And to imagine that people have debates if this guys can take on marvel multiversal entities that actually have shown us such feats.
@@FusionTM_REDRUM Based on what are you assuming they can't manipulate space and time? Melkor and the rest of the Valar are walking concepts. Some of them created and govern over the concept of fate, giving them at least some familiarity with it. They are beings who shaped an entire universe and created time and space. So based on what exactly are you assuming that they are bound to it and cannot control it? Eternity in marvel is above time, yet time still passes for it. Same for the tribunel, beyonders, and many more. If you suggest that they have no control over it based on the fact that they see and are part of the passage if time, as the rest of the world, then by such a logic the living tribunel and his like are below time as well. Which they absolutely not. Aside from time passing for them, I see no other indication for them not having control over time.
Melkor is literally Satan. which means he's the most powerful creation. the only thing stronger than him is God the creator himself. in this case that would be eru iluvatar.
With an Anti-Morgoth spray ofcourse Tucked deep in his utility belt Yep, Batman carries an Anti-Morgoth spray Just in case some Reality wrapper chucked him in Middle Earth
I always believe that darkness is more powerful than anyone single person or being! I also believe that a combination of all good can topple anything darkness can bring forth!
I now extremely disagree with outerversal scaling especially considering the nature of Tolkien's Mythos cosmology which is loosely inspired by ancient Hebrew cosmology of the Bible. I no longer consider any Ainur close to outerversal non at all.
EÄ is all that is not a universe. The verse is as big as Eru's mind which is immesureable. Every ainur transcend creation and everything else made by Eru.
@@侍-u1k I don't even know what r>f even means or how you could even believe to such a paradigm that has no bases or even foundation which supports that claim.
@thenightgiant7185 Don't you think are inflating the cosmology of EA too much without testing it to prove the claim though? I no longer like modern overhighballing anymore as it's untested and extremely illiterate these days with false paradigms and fragmented passages which they use to insinuate.
Imagin power of Melkor in the finish of Dagor Dagorath than will bi the wikest kililng him literaly mins distruction of univers, then Sauron was faked only Baradur and half of mordor plato of gorgorot was distroed, dont forget first comandant of Melkor was Fankil , hi was faight against avar elfs ho was more numeros than in Beleriand eriador and rovanion 4 dwarths clans and mens , against Melkor was faight only Belegorst , Nagrod durin did not fight ,second was Hight lord of Balrogs , after was Glaurung , and for the fall of gondolin was anathe dragon in comand , in war of whrath was Ancalagon , so Sauron was only 6 , Glorfindel kil lord of Balrogs ho was in top 10 Best faiters in Middle Earth all time, Gilgalad ho kiled saurons body with Elendil, isnt ithen in top 20 , ithen Elendil isnt in top 20 all time, first is Turin after Beren Huor Hurin Tuor Bregolas Hador Bregor Elros Beor Marach Haleth etc., wariors from men said
Have you ever thought that this person might just be speaking too fast for you? He might be from Ireland, some people from there tend to speak quite fast. Furthermore he might have been nervous. Or he might have a speach problems. You can adjust the speed of the video.
What more proof do you need that Tolkien was a supreme Wizard......
Tolkien can basically Blink and Eru Iluvatar and True form Melkor can literally be extinguished from the face of Reality
@@Mitsuru-Miki not really, it would be hard to burn every book and delete everything about his stories. Even harder to remove them from other People's minds. Tolkien even said that Eru is the narrator
Long story short morgoth is one of the most powerful beings in the legendarium, he is second only to Eru illuvatar
He's pretty darn powerful, that's for sure!
But what about Ungoliant and Tulkas beating Melkor/Morgoth
Abid Khan Melkor, with Tulkas and Ungoliant, could not command even a bit of his true strenght. Otherwise he would have annhilated them with only his thought.
Eru Unico actually tulkas over powers morgoth in terms of physical strength
Jake Alter True. But when I say strenght I mean his spiritual power; not physical strenght alone. During Melkor's fight with Tulkas, Melkor lacks his original power, bestowed to him by Ilùvatar. Furthermore, Ungoliant was empowered by the power of Melkor himself, who weakened himself in order to transfer his strenght to the giant spider.
I am still very surprised how the elves, men, and dwarves survived hundreds to thousands of years of morgoth’s tyranny
Because there is forces of good as strong/stronger than Morgoth . also Morgoth wanted to rule Arda not to destroy it.
It’s just surprising how mere humans/elves fought an army of Immortal Orcs, Fire Drakes, Werewolves, phantoms, and Balrogs, each one counting to the thousands AND fought a Fallen God (plus 2 demons who commanded his armies) before getting ANY help from the Valar. They did this for thousands of years..... I’m impressed.
@@Shamman2077 Except they didn't. Morgoth a lone can just kill them in 1 sec but he want to rule them. also Eru would have prevented him form killing them, just like he prevented him from destroying the entire Arda.
h7oda mazika- What do you mean they didn’t? He sent armies of thousands perhaps millions against the free people and killed thousands. (War of sudden flame, war of the jewels, war of wrath) and yes he wanted to rule them but only through submission (last I checked: they openly defied him)
And Eru never truly interfered during ANY of this, he would only interfere if Valanor was being attacked but even then it would be a slim chance he would come to the rescue.
P.S. Morgoth was severely wounded by an elf during a duel so I find it hard that he could destroy them all on his own🙄
@@Shamman2077 Morgoth harmed by very strong elf when he had less than 1% of his original power(he spent all of his power on corrupting the entire universe). and Eru would have interfered if he know that all of men and elves (his children which he loves more than the valars) gonna die and the valars can't help them.
the thing is Morgoth never used his true power against them because the valars gonna fight him.
the elves and men however held their own for a good time against most of his armies. but they never killed a balrog except when balrogs wasn't considered a maiar and was in thousands or hundreds (not just 7 balrogs at most)
When people say Sauron is the biggest, baddest and most powerful Dark Lord of Middle-earth.
Morgoth: hold my beer
I mean... He kind of is, since at the Time of events of LOTR - Morgoth was banished. Sauron was only Dark Lord left.
But yeah, Morgoth is much stronger
Hold my Grond*
He is Morgoth wasn’t as intelligent as Sauron his manipulation attempts almost always failed he had a good military mind I’ll give him that but he still wasn’t as cunning or clever as Sauron he thought brute force would win the day yes he was extremely powerful but that’s really all he was
@@Matli1804 You do know who serves who right?And that Morgoth fought more powerful enemy’s
@@Zerathos-e7n yes he had a better strategic mind than Sauron and was physically stronger I already said that .Sauron served Morgoth throughout the 1st age but after he only used his memory to control others. He may have worshiped Morgoth at first but it’s pretty clear if you read between the lines that he came to resent him towards the end of the 1st age it’s possible that if Morgoth won the war of wrath Sauron would have betrayed him Tolkien even said Sauron at the end of the 2nd age was stronger than Morgoth at the end of the 1st.
Makes thanos look like a littel b....
Read the comics
Regular none cosmic cube none infinity gauntlet thanos gets punked by none crippled morgoth
SIR SUN MAN true
Kneelbefore Zod21
Why thanos? He’s not that powerful. Use someone like micheal in DC, that is a better power equivalent.
@@sacr4450 Michael demiurge?
If thats the Michael you are talking about michael curbstomps so hard it ain't even funny(like really? A guy who couldn't even make a full fledged universe vs a guy who has a power inside him that could destroy all of dc which is infinite 10 times over. Yeah sounds fair)
When people ask me what is your favourite LOTR/Tolkien character, I say Morgoth/Melkor, and they say, who?
Oof
Uneducated slimes!
Such a predictable comment.
lee coates what do you mean?
Ignorant fools.
When Gandalf said swords wont do anything I never thought it was this far
Look, according to the movies, seeing how he fell from 3 kilometers while wrestling with a fire demon, gandalf should be able to deflect shotgun shells with his skin.
Yeah, swords are not going to do anything.
the mythology is deeper than you think and larger than you imagine
him saying "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, Wielder of the Flame of Anor" probably did more than his sword did to beat the Balrog. The "secret Fire" is the flame imperishable- the Fire that Eru Ilúvatar used to create all life and then set in the center of Ea.
And yet of all the Valar, he alone knew fear.
Melkor ... Too OP
J.R.R Tolkien : i am gonna nerf him
A few moment later, Melkor being nerfed and being Morgoth.
Tolkien : Awww, perfect
Manga version of Sailor Moon could defeat Morgoth. Easily.
If you slow the video setting speed down to 0.75 or 0.50, the commentator actually sounds like he's not practicing for an auctioneer job.
treck87 he was talking way to fast I missed a lot of what he said.
SPEED IT UP SPEED OT UP SPEED IT UP 1.25X FOR THE WIN
treck87 That makes him sound plastered :) But very easy to understand :)
I sped it up to x2 now he sounds like the Micro Machine man
0.75 is weed, 0.5 is meth
Strong enough to change the literal theme of a universe...
When Christopher Tolkien said that the Valar are as powerful as the old gods from ancient Greek, Norse, and Egyptian pantheons. I assumed they were at the most planet-to-star level of power. But after looking into the lore and feats they did and watching this video after all of that. Wow, Morgoth (and by extension the rest of the valar) are OP asf!
The Valar are Divine Spirits of Creation, of course they would be OP.
i think tolkien meant that forms they take in arda are around equal to the gods in mythology, cause the actual forms of the valar are almost unstoppable cause by comparing the valar to the greek gods for example i cant see the greek gods even standing up to the valar unless its the valar in arda cause then its more of a even playing field. but holy hell melkor is packing hard no wonder eru doesn’t allow his to regenerate his powers
@@fayhlennokctra7344 Funnily enough, the Valar together don't stand against some deities of mythology.
Zeues could shake an infinity by tilting his head. That was leading above the capabilities of the Valar and Melkor together.
Their non-physical forms are non-physical.
@@pyktukasplays4945 the Spiritual forms and the forms outside arda are very different the valar outside of arda have a form just not one that is set in stone unlike zeus who has a form he was born with the valar dont, also we havnt seen any valar fight outside of arda cause that means death for everyone of a unkown wide radius, and by combining all the power’s of the valar such as manipulating fate, space, time they have incredible power especially when these powers get enhanced while outside of arda especially melkor since ge has all the other powers of the valar, zeis shakng infinity is incredibly impressive but that is where tve greek mythology power scale becomes a fucking mess, hercules has done something similar, atlas aswell, and there are multiple beings far more powerful then zeus, tartarus, gaia, typhoon
@@fayhlennokctra7344 Important question: Did you take the Vividen's videos seriously?
"How powerful is melkor? "
Tolkien; "yes."
His original Name is Melkor, it's Feanor who called him Morgoth, The Enemy of The World, after stealing the silmarils and killing his Father Finwe
There is another detail missed in the video, those who looked into Morgoth's eyes lost their sanity, all but the most powerful entered in a dark pit of terror.
But note that Elf, Men or Dwarf (or even Hobbit) has an above average terror resistance compared to we human, but they still collapsed.
Compared to Morgoth Cthulhu is just a jelly bug.
How about the King of the Dark Below, the Low Elder god with seven brides, the Scarlet King from the SCP Foundation tales?
I bet of we were using his war on creation story Melkor and the Valar would be truly terrified of his presence.
The only God that I can really think in HP lovecraft’s universe to hurt or even kill Morgoth is Azathoth the blind idiot god.
Azathoth created existence without a mere thought because he is blind.
His slumber is creation and once he awakes.
The structures of the universe would fall apart before him.
@@thorshammer7883 lol shut up clown
@@Mitsuru-Miki lmfao shut up
@Gasper Vidovic um yeah.
I’ve read the necronomicon And I can guarantee that almost every god can end the world and make us humans loose our sanity.
Sure The Feats displayed by the Cthulhu Mythos is beyond the Ainur Pantheon.
But that doesn’t mean that they can put up a good fight.
The Ainurs shaped the universe no...
They created existence through the first music.
Believe it or not but We can’t really compare both Eru and Azathoth.
Eru is the benevolent Ruler of existence that is always perfect while Azathoth is the blasphemous God of Idiotic and Blind nature that can end universe if not retaken into slumber.
Melkor in his deific self molded existence and everything.
They went beyond the manifestations of reality and existence.
The Ainurs just got really super underpowered in Arda.
But if we compare The Ainurs vs Cthulhu pantheon then....
I’ll let you decide.
More people need to watch this video. The amount of arguments I’ve gotten into with people who have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to Melkor is just insane. He might not have feats like ones we see in comic books (Marvel and DC especially) but he is easily at the top when it comes to power levels.
The videe has plenty of misinfomration. It shouldn't be takne seriously.
And no, Melkor wouldn't be at the top of power levels in either DC or Marvel.
He doesn't feats like thsoe of some comic characters because he isn't as powerful as them.
@@pyktukasplays4945dude…
@@AM-jz5wz What? The person needed to be corrected. Melkor wouldn't at be the top of power at neither Marcel nor DC. He, and the rest of the Vakar, are just too weak. Of course, they are powerful in Tolkien's stories and world, but that's because the world itself is very weak.
I mean I agree that they probably wouldn't be at the top of marvel/DC but saying that the world is weak is a bit outlandish.@@pyktukasplays4945
Do you have to talk like a machine gun?
In the video settings, slow the speed down to 0.75 or 0.50
Or increase speed to 2!
You fuckers on heroin or something? Not hard to listen lmao
At 0.5x he sounds like he's drunk hahaha
Perfectly worded lol
Yooo This was great vividen
I changed my name
@@hide-zh4mz who r u
Thomas Hulse
I think it would be cool for the community to write a book where melkor returns. Seeing as all of his dark magic faded from middle earth it had to go back somewhere? What if he was just waiting for it all to return so he would be as strong as he once was at his peak. I think it would be cool to see humanity with their arrogance refer to sauron and the dwarves as fairy tales, only for melkor to return after breaking free. Kind of like how we say history repeats itself
Morgoth OP pls nerf
Gojiratheking106 he was a nerfed version of Melkor
@@jordanthomas7798 I thought melkor was the nerfed version of morgoth
the king of utub e nah, Melkor was so powerful he could face off against all the other Valar until the arrival of Tulkas, Morgoth was damaged by Fingolfin
He already got nerfed in the story and fought an elf.
Well he nerfed himself because he was a incompetent fool who overspent his power for no reason.
So the Melkor and the other Valar are Outerversal then? I've always seen people lowball LoTR gods to universal + at best.
I don't believe that they are outerversal that's a overstatement if you ask me.
I'm okay with them saying they are Multiversal or low hyperversal but outerversal that a step too far.
You went from A to B to C to Z all of a sudden.
@@thorshammer7883 All Ainur were born before the Universe, Time and Space was created, they are Outerversal.
Blazeofglory we can’t comprehend or make up words about how powerful they are.
@@aethiluvatar yes we can't make up words cause that is biased, Also if the Valar we're in their true form(Ainur), they are Outerversal if you ask me they literally sing all universe and dimensions to existence.
@Association of Free People I read Silmarillion, but there is no Ainur left in the timeless halls the Silmarillion says that the last Ainur who descended in Arda are tulkas. (I think)
They need to make a movie exploring this character,pre Lord of The Rings,be cool to see how Sauron started as well seeing his other side working for Morgoth.
Where is Thanos hiding after wtching this ?😊
Masturbating while watching a hologram naked women using his Infinity Gauntlet
*Puts on new Retcon Infinity Gems*
Now I am a god!
I'm confused do u really think morgoth is more powerful than thanos or is there some joke I missed
the king of utub e it’s no joke thanos is not even the most powerful being of marvel
@@firebrickgirl yea cuz marvel is 1000000 times more powerful than all the people in Tolkien's universe so yes it should be a joke
Never thought I would see power scaling applied to lotr
Awesome upload Vividen !
Even althrough Morgoth is being a total unintelligent moron and be idiotic enough to challange the *God* itself... but at the very least he created the adorable dragons and very cute and cuddly Orcs; so; one point to him
+The DORUK Cude and cuddly orcs! There's an interesting idea...
Lucifer maked the same durak is You
@Mordraug I'm of the opinion that Eru is omnipotent, but not omniscient - I think he didn't know that Melkor would rebel, he just wanted company because he was lonely.
But then again, there's a lot of talk of the destiny of the world in the lotr universe, but as far as I understand fate is not necessarily set in stone.
That's what I like most about that universe rather than the supposed omniscient and omnipotent God of our world - Eru is a much more sympathetic and benevolent deity.
@Harogrim he was literally corruption personified, eru knew exactly what he was doing in creating melkor, I don't personally think he could predict everything but he had enough power abd knowledge over that which he created to know what the general turn of events would be
Nice people always underestimate Tolkien characters just because he don't describe their power in details the way marvel and other comics do.
Yes. Morgoth, being some sort of Satan of his universe (quite literally), should be second only to Eru Iluvátar (God) himself. If Lord of the Rings took place in space, Morgoth's power would be more obvious and explicit.
@@baltofarlander2618 That's not the case Satan just whispers to humans and help them to do evil he have no power over them.
@@h7oda793 well, he has no that kind of explicit power and humans still have free will and can reject or receive his offers, but Morgoth is, in some sense, clearly satan equivalent I think.
@@baltofarlander2618 No he is not not by any means. Satan only whisper by evil and Morgoth don't don deal.
@@baltofarlander2618 Another big deference is that one is real and the other is fake and more than 4 billion people on this earth believe that Satan exists (Muslims and Christians and Jews)
Favorite villain of all time.
Mine too!
I like him and sauron
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Melkor is my favorite Dark Lord of ALL TIME!
Mine too!
Mine too
@Irvin Tokalic booo
Hey thanks guys
Could you break down how powerful Saruman/Curumo is? I know there isn't a lot to go off of, but it'd be an interesting watch
Unbelievably Trash Sauron was able to teach Celebrimbor, enough said
@@jordanthomas7798 He was talking about saruman, not sauron.
Saruman should be an amped Gandalf the Grey, curumo a weakened Gandalf the White.
ALUCARD I know Sauron was originally known Mairon, I was must presenting Sauron as knowledgeable and powerful
@@jordanthomas7798 ok.
not sure though how it's connected to the original comment, as it had nothing to do with sauron.
Long story short, he's Satan of LOTR
Even though Sauron is the public face, Morgoth is the one pulling the strings.
He literally is. His story is meant to reflect that of Lucifer/Satan except in a fantasy world.
@@mrscechy8625 considering that Tolkien was a Catholic, he wanted to add some kind of reference
Melkor : "I am superior to all"
Tulkas : "TULKAS SMASH! >:( "
Tulkas : _"You sure about that?"_
Varda alone ALWAYS HAD HIM AFRAID AND JEALOUS. And it was described that Galadriel was the only Elf to understand Eru best, very well. Yes, they had contact. And she unlike others studdied under/with the Maiar and Valar alike, actually surpassing Feànor and living longer than he did by many more ages as time is told differently back then verses the earlier ages we are more familiar with, she ends up stronger with more experience and MORE TIME ADDED TO HER GROWING WISDOM. Whicu became overdrived by all the elves experiences.
They need to do loftr new movie morgoth sequel
lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath
they need to make so many ones from the books i mean there are countless AWESOME movie-like stories in there 😩
Yeah but they would be so terrible now as much as I love the lotr I would not want them to ruin it on a movie
How about they make the valaquenta, oath of feanor, beren and luthien, children of hurin, fall of gondolin, war of wrath, the entire second age instead?
@@BrightLord1823 shut up
Varda: No evil shall be able to withstand the Holy light!
Melkor: Ooh, pretty rocks.
Varda : evil, mortal and dirty things will be burned if they touch these rocks.
Morgoth : "Ow! Better put them in a crown so they won't hurt me anymore."
“wHoO WoUld WiInN,,, thAnaOs vS MoRgOthH” 🥴
Depends on the Thanos and Morgoth.
But in most cases, Thanos would win.
Secondly, the videos has some mistakes. Don't take it too seriously.
Sauron served this guy.. So you can imagine how powerful this guy is.. End of story.
voldemort; give me my wand
morgoth:...
The entire Wizarding World of Harry Potter would be nothing compared to Sauron let alone Morgoth
@@revanchistofnumenor totally mate. Hope you are safe, and reading a good J.R.R. Tolkien
@@euglenaeleven5479 thank you! Hope you're safe at home reading more of Tolkien's works too :)
Nino Nellas the nazgul would be more than enough
Voldemort would be morgoths sex slave lol bed be dressed half naked all the time walking around his castle doing chores and stuff lol
Iluvitar is light, morgoth is darkness.
Indeed.
Melkor is kinda of stupid when comes to contingency plans and strategic planning.
He just went all stupid and divided his power up into his armies too much.
What he should of been doing was trying to collect some power if wanted to one shot all the Valar at once.
I am everything and nothing
Propaganda Slayer In the Silmarillion Illuvitar states that all things come from him, so it would be more accurate to say Melkor is darkness and Illuvitar is light and darkness
eru iluvatar Hello boss they never saw my betrayal coming!
So ima try to make parallels with Marvel:
Eru Iluvitar = The One Above All
Ainur = The Celestials
Elves = Asgardians/Eternals/Inhumans/etc
Is this more or less correct?
The ainur is more like abstracts.
Ainur more like the Celestials
2:55
melkor wielding "sulfuras Hand of Ragnaros" xD
Must be how it was edited.
Nice to see people with some warcraft/WoW knowledge here
How are you?
I think morgoth can beat superman prime one millon on a good day
Well I think he scales to Lucifer moringstar who is far above Superman prime one million
I was thinking of a scenario where Scion from _Worm_ fights Morgoth.
A badly-crippled fallen Vala would _still_ curb-stomp a Sufficiently-Advanced Alien.
Such is the power of veritable gods sent to govern creation by The One.
I am the most powerful character in fiction way more powerful than erue iluvatar I don’t care what anyone says about him being the most powerful in this universe I’m far greater than him
Hello future me, I'll avenge you and slit tulkas's throat in his sleep
You should keep doing these videos they are awesome. Soon they will appreciate them more as it should be!
This makes me think that the dragons of the War Of The Wrath must he super powerful if they could hold back the Valar in their physical avatar forms by working together.
I'm not sure if the Valar themselves actually fought the dragons or if they only showed up at the end to take out Morgoth personally. If the dragons did actually fight them, though, that's only more support for solar system+ Ancalagon.
@@TheVividen Earendil the maiar and Tulkas the Valar fought Morgoth with the hist of the west
+will maz Tulkas did, at the end of the battle itself. He defeated him pretty easily. Earendil never encountered Morgoth personally--maybe you're thinking of Ancalagon the Black.
@@TheVividen I was thinking about who went to fight in the war not who personally got (not hard due to his state)Morgoth.Got Earendil mixed up with Eonwe who I think was the bannerman of Manwe.Personally Morgoth reminds me of the Nazis and there change in power.
+will maz Okay, gotcha. Yeah, Eonwe was the Maia who led the war effort. And that does make sense--Tolkien was heavily emotionally invested in both world wars, so there are many echoes of the tactics involved as well as traumatic events.
Nice video man
Morgoth vs the Scarlet King (SCP Foundation)
Morgoth+The Scarlet King=all reality and all dimensional planes of existence blown up to galactic ash 😱
@@Shamman2077 yes, especially if Lord English could be involved. And I don't want to know what would happen if they cooperated.
@@baltofarlander2618
The Scarlet king would probably see Melkor as a bug to be stepped on. I can see Melkor getting extremely scared and rather work with the valar then become a slave to some low elder god who is absolutely insane and wishes destruction and death upon all of creation.
Ian Tilley but melkor transcends everything existence itself second only to my omnipotence
@@thorshammer7883 I think both of them (True Morgoth vs 100% Scarlet king) would be equal
So basically the Silmarillion Gems are like the three Mother Box on steriods
Yes think of infinite stars level of power then times that by 10 into 3 gems
This was absolutely amazing. Thumbs upped, & can you please do the same for Sauron? Sauron and Melkor are two of the most powerful/important beings in Arda, yet I find Tolkien was very vague when describing the extent of their abilities, and what exactly they were capable of. Plus, Sauron is basically the Melkor of the Maia (Most powerful and intelligent, but corrupted)
The person has made a similar video for Dark Lord Sauron.
th-cam.com/video/UV-rxaRYm6Y/w-d-xo.html
@@pyktukasplays4945 Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
Thank you for references.
For which references were you grateful for?
Hello?
Holy.
+Lagiacrus the Terminator He's going to be really fun to use in the Vs Training Chamber, that's for sure.
The Vividen true.
Hax and abilities: Necromancy and dark magic expert and healing
Man I wish they could make a movie on the silmarillion
We are already having issues with Dune the silmarillion would be longer then 17-24 films all 3-4 hours long each
I think the Silmarillion would work better as a television series.
@@dragonhelmofdor-lomin4017 animated series
@@dragonhelmofdor-lomin4017 That didn't age well
@Ahmet Akgun well at least use Peter Jackson to make it!
For the statement of the valar being just as powerful as mythological gods, was it page 330 of the silmarillion or something else.
The part about Valar being equal to mythologal gods is from _"Morgoth's Ring"_ .
Here are the paragraphs it is from:
_"It is in fact simply part of the portrayal of the imaginary
world of the Silmarillion, and an example of the kind of thing
that enquiring minds on either side, the Elvish or the Human,
must have said to one another after they became acquainted.
We see here the attempt of a generous Elvish mind to fathom the
relations of Elves and Men, and the part they were designed to
play in what he would have called the Oienkarme Eruo (The
One's perpetual production), which might be rendered by
'God's management of the Drama'."_
_"There are certain things in this world that have to be accepted
as 'facts'. The existence of Elves: that is of a race of beings
closely akin to Men, so closely indeed that they must be
regarded as physically (or biologically) simply branches of the
same race. The Elves appeared on Earth earlier, but not
(mythologically or geologically) much earlier; they were 'immortal', and did not 'die' except by accident. Men, when they
appeared on the scene (that is, when they met the Elves), were,
however, much as they now are: they 'died', even if they escaped
all accidents, at about the age of 70 to 80. The existence of the
Valar: that is of certain angelic Beings (created, but at least as
powerful as the 'gods' of human mythologies), the chief of
whom still resided in an actual physical part of the Earth. They
were the agents and vice-gerents of Eru (God). They had been
for nameless ages engaged in a demiurgic labour completing to
the design of Eru the structure of the Universe (Ea); but were
now concentrated on Earth for the principal Drama of Creation:
the war of the Eruhin (The Children of God), Elves and Men,
against Melkor. Melkor, originally the most powerful of the
Valar, had become a rebel, against his brethren and against
Eru, and was the prime Spirit of Evil."_
@pyktukasplays4945 thanks
@@omnigod7131No problem at all. Hopefully it helped.
I love your videos but please try to speak a little slower. It's hard to keep up when I'm being initiated to the lore
Morgoth is so OP. The cool, readable, and one you'd stan for decades OP character.
Manga Sailor Moon would easily defeat Melkor.
When and we're does it say the Ainur viewed the world as fiction. Where does it state "a story composed by someone else"
In the OG silmiralilon,
This is AWESOME!
Instant subscribe
How can you create Morgoth/Melkor in Skyrim?
Deadric Armor and a deadric mace.
@@tumhornkingslayer6411 Skills, stats and quests?
@@imperatordei6615 you should pick only illlusion, destruction and conjuration magic. The mace should have fire damage. Regarding skills, everything in the mentioned skill trees should do.
the Silmarillian makes the bridge between fantasy and science fiction literature with its description of the universe, or multiverse.
This should be having the exact opposite affect on me but this video just made me love this villain even more. Not me now imagining the series but in Berserk style.. ah one can dream.
A girl named Sailor Moon could easily defeat Morgoth and even Melkor the avatar.
Many other characters could do that too.
Melkor vs Lucifer Morningstar?🤔
3..... 2..... 1..... Now!!! Here come the angry Marvel and Star Wars fans that try to bring up useless points about how their own characters can beat Melkor.
100% agree
@@farahahmed8201 I know. SW have some of the most toxic fans ever. Marvel fans are chill, just not sensible.
@@smp_legendary4421 yeah like lol hi
@@farahahmed8201 Yo. How do you know lol hi. I argued with that idiot for 24 hours straight and we still couldnt agree. He thought Darth Sidious Would Beat Sauron. The only valid argument that he could make was that Sidious can create black holes. But Sauron is intangible in nearly alll of his forms. So Black Holes would have little to no effect on Sauron. Anyway, Yeah LOL hi doesnt know what hes talking about.
@@smp_legendary4421 hey I've had a week long argument with lol hi on sauron vs sidious and with me also he was only saying that sidious can create black holes
Good video.
So Sauron is basically just a child compared to him
In the beginning, yes, but Sauron became much stronger over time, while Morgoth weakened himself.
Hierony it was said that when the world ends morgoth would return from the void with Sauron at his side.
@@philipbertrand2680 Yes, Morgoth was still much stronger, but he is now equal to the other valar. Sauron is the strongest maiar, so the first behind the valar. I don't really call that a child compared to Morgoth.
Hierony you right You right. Does sound cooler though
@@philipbertrand2680 It really does. XD
The point was made that when he cursed Hurin', he did not call down a curse on him, as he himself was a God, but laid the curse on him directly.
so fingolfin could move faster than the speed of light?
+Sunandan Kaul Lol. Someone named ancalagon the *black* surely felt that pun :^)
+Sunandan Kaul At least in combat and reactions, yes. Not straight movement speed.
Fast reaction time and fast movement time aren't the same thing.
Exactly. They often overlap, however. If you're flying through space at ten thousand times the speed of light, for example, you need to be able to react to objects in your way.
True but he was still able to move at speed of light albeit extremely small movements. Still an impressive feat.
Basically, he is only second to Eru illuvatar, so why and how was he defeated? Somewhat of a rhetorical question, but I'm interested in anyone's input.
To put it simply he lost due to the fact how divine power works is imagine if you have a glass and how big the glass is is how much power you can have this being the water
Now good maiar and valar have access to the sink provided by Eru so they can recover their power at any point and time when they need it
If you are evil like morgoth’s you lose the sink privileges and thus must find other methods to get clean water and that takes time
Morgoth everytime he uses his powers he was losing some of it and couldn’t recover his divine strength as he once did given most of its source was with eru
He could get it back but it’s so gradual it be like watching something download on your game console for 24 hours the pain or waiting before you can play something and then realize once you download it if you want to play something else you may have to delete that and start all over
That’s what’s it’s like
Not to mention he put most of his power in all existence to corrupt it this weakened him but it gave strength to his armies
He lost given he knew he would eventually be overpowered given he is losing his power
But if he never lost it then he be in a stalemate with the valar forever hence why him losing his power was due to eru not replenishing it
What if Tolkien Wanted to show in a subtle way that religion is Made up by making his own
In the dagor dagorath he doesn’t come back as 'crippled morgoth'. He gets his powers back. Tolkien mentioned in one of his letters morgoth can not only recharge but gather back into him the power he disseminated into arda
who is stronger? melkor or kratos
Palpatine
@@tumhornkingslayer6411
All hail the Immortal God Emperor of Mankind bail before the Emperor Heretic.
Hahahahahaha
I think Melkor in his prime would be too much for Kratos. But i think Kratos could defeat Morgoth during the the First Age.
@@dragonhelmofdor-lomin4017 Maybe maybe True Form Melkor could be too much for Kratos. But others? No.
Good overview :)
Dude Morgoth is technically stronger than goku
Maybe in what the video calls _"True Form"_ all other forms are weaker than Goku.
@@pyktukasplays4945 That is definitely true. True Form Melkor is stronger but current Goku's stats and speed are higher
@@thunderweasel866 But we don't know how accurate this video is about it.
Because with other forms there were many mistakes.
But even with these misconceptions, Goku is more powerful than the other two.
@@pyktukasplays4945 after reading some of tolkien books I'd say it's very accurate at one point he could of twisted goku to his will
I can't say I agree with outerversal scaling anymore.
to sum up what powers melkor had u would have to go much deeper into the story and look how magic in lotr and the "powers" of the valar really work
True form ? nevet heard of it , you mean the valar how they were in the void before the universe i guess ? Also in the final battle in the last age, Melkor fight Tulkas again and duke it out with him, so i guess he regains his lost power . Imo this is a bit of an god modding, i don't thinkTolkin meant for Melkor anf the Valar to be quite this powerfull imo
That is because he is basically trying to show how OP melkor CAN be.
Melkor obviously was never intended to be this powerful, but due to tolkein's wording, all of this conclusions are completely possible.
It is obviously not how he planned it but it is how it can be viewed.
@@alucard347 Plus this video has some misconceptions
i always was a HUGE fan of Sauron, because i thought he was a badass! but holy sh*t this guy Melkor/Morgoth is made of pure awesomeness! i would worship him! lol
Well, there are characters who could defeat Melkor/Morgoth.
Most of his forms, of not all, can be defeated by manga Sailor Moon.
@@pyktukasplays4945 If you go parading around this information with no reasons then your comment has no merit.
@@taelorpickel2830 The person above wanted to worship an evil character because of their power.
I tried to explain that there are kind characters who are more powerful. So more worthy of _"worship"_ .
...and I thought DARSEID was powerful. Hell, even Darkseids dad Yugga Kahn, the last Old God and most powerful New God, is NOTHING to this guy.
Idk true form darkseid exists outside of the whole dc multiverse....he one time fell into the multiverse and the multiverse broke like a piece of wood would when you sit on it
@@TheCommun3 True form Melkor is below the almighty Eru Illuvatar, true form Darkseid is still below Perpetua, and even she is below true form Melkor. Perpetua was defeated in some storyline, but Melkor is nigh omnipotent
True Form Darkseid can be taken as the concept of evil, the void of goodness. That makes him definitely beyond lesser dimensions. There is a good philosophical video explaining that.
Anyways, Melkor at his origin is meant to be beyond concepts as mentioned at the end.
Basically it goes this way:
True Form Darkseid <
God of War Olimpian God's (not God of War 4). How things are explained in the novels and how the creators described them. ("SethTheProgrammer" did a mostly decent summary of that information about the power of God of War main character Kratos). <
Some random other beyond-dimensional beings with extreme power. <
Melkor at his orgin as it is interpreted by the Vividen. Or Vividen's interpretation of that.
@@oldchannel_MoM Melkor was also defeated in the storyline.
Plus True Form Darkseid and others would be closer to Eru than Melkor was.
@@pyktukasplays4945 Melkor is the embodiment of evil outside Arda just as true form Darkseid is. Eru is the Almighty, there is an infinite gap between Him and Melkor + Darkseid. But oh well, that might just be my interpretation.
also he didn't just shape shift, they can create them as an entire new beeing with totally different abilities and a from ground on different spiritual form - i think the different is that a shape shifter not nessarlilly have more powers or if just a bit more, but by a shape shifter all beings are all there at the same time and they can fast switch back and forth - by Melkor the outher Valar or Majar it cost a lot of energy and they stay often a really long time in one form, it's a totally new Creation of their appearance and their spirit and everything.
2:43
What about my bro Chaos from Greek mythology, that guy is probably Eru Illuvatars cooler brother
I subbed!
Can you speak little faster. This was too slow for me
Lmao right
You can have it at double the speed. That it what I do
Speed in combat and travel: immeasurable speeds layers into it to 2 or 3 layers into irrelevant speed
How did this guy even die?
He didn't. He was cast into the void. He's prophicised to return. Hail the true dark lord!
Eonwe killed him by running a sword through his heart
@@Radio.Jump857 he's not dead.
@@099Nitro he is, he was killed at dagor dagorath
@@Radio.Jump857 wich never happend, and it was hurin that wiII stab him.
Speed in combat and travel: massively faster than light (mftl)
Sloooowwwww doooowwwwnn
Wow now I should show it to everyone who dare underestimate sauron and say he's stronger then weakest morgoth
The last form was wanked beyond measure. You added string theory?. String theory isn't scientifically proven even for us and you used it to scale melkors strength?.
I'll just stop to the second form for power scaling. And even at the second form you up him up a bit too much still.
When the other valar fought him in his second form, the damaged the battle caused was strictly involving ARDA only. No mention of universal scale damage what so ever.
The valar and him are planet level at best by feats alone. No reason spicing things up by making wild speculations .
True.
But then again, the vividen shows us in this video bit the power level they have by feats, rather the power level they COULD have by interpretation of the words tolkein wrote.
With the right perspective, you can reach the same conclusion as him, and even if it's far from Tolkien's view of that matter, it is still a plausible result.
@@alucard347
If that's true and you indeed consider melkor multiversal. Then Explain to me, why did he got diminished so much, up to the point that fingoflin, a mere mortal creature , was able to wound him. Seriously now. Let's be honest here. If you have multiversal levels of power, then creating a few monsters on such a small place like ARDA which is literally like a grain of sand if you compare it to the universe , not to mention the multiverse, it shouldn't have diminished him one bit. Please explain to me the logic behind it , cause I literally can't.
If we take into account other multiversal entities like Phoenix force from marvel for example. It literally has the power to destroy and reshape parts of the multiverse, with no trouble what so ever.
So no. Unless better evidence are provided, I'll stick with my previous claim.
@@FusionTM_REDRUM again:
the vivden didn't showed us an absolute proof for melkor being so powerful, nor do I believe him to be so powerful.
he simply said that, if we take the text litterally, we can reach to the point in which he is depicted as a multiversal entity.
which is amusing to think about.
however, as of HOW could he have been diminished so much, well, here is why:
morgoth was not diminished for creating entire races, even races like dragons, who can equal to the maiar, and the strongest of them was greater then any maiar.
by the time he created those beings, he was already so diminished that a fight against Fingolfin was an actual threat to him.
No, he was diminished in power LONG before.
when?
well, at the begining.
When the entierty of existence was made, not just earth, but Ea, aka, everything that there is, Things like death, pain, fear, chaos, etc were not a thing.
After Melkor's initial attempt of free jazz in the middle of the song of the ainur, he was forced to play along with everyone as Eru wanted.
Only afterwards, when Ea was already fixed and made, he entered into it and started to corrupt it.
Instead of creating it corrupted with the rest of the ainur, he allowed them to create a perfect world, and then he created the concepts he wanted to introduce.
Tell me, can the phoenix force, or Galactus, create new concepts?
no, they can't.
At their lowest they are multiversal forces who can bend the laws of physics.
At their best they are abstract concepts.
Melkor CREATED abstract concepts.
But he could not TRUELY create something new.
No one can.
So what he did was tear himself appart, and form parts of his existence he torn away from himself into new concepts and enforce them into all of existence.
Hence why Ea is incomplete.
After doing so, Melkor was vastly diminished.
And when he was doing so, while also destroying the lamps, creating entire races, corrupting and turning dozens of maiar into beasts of fire and chaos, while also fighting against all Valar at the same time, it drained him from his powers, and eventally led to him being beaten, far weaker then he initially was.
later on, his powers continued to diminish when he was exposed to the powers of Varda, when he puts the three silmarili on his head for centuries non stop, and then continued to create entire maiar like races.
it was at that point when he himself took away so much of his existence that he became just an empty shell of the being h once was, so much so that fingolfin actually posed a threat to him.
and in that weakned state of his, the injuries fingolfin gave him were too grave to just heal off, and took more pieces of his existence, and made him even weaker then before.
so much so, that second age sauron was in fact stronger then Morgoth of the end of the first age.
Hope this explanation helped.
@@alucard347
Also, I would like to add , that the valar have no control over time and space what so ever in that universe of Eru. They can only manipulate the raw matter in it, and that's about it.
They might not be bound to it . But they certainly cannot manipulate it to full extent as they please. Cause if they could, they would most certainly have done it in order to rectify melkors actions.
So they are not reality wrappers as people claim them to be.
And to imagine that people have debates if this guys can take on marvel multiversal entities that actually have shown us such feats.
@@FusionTM_REDRUM
Based on what are you assuming they can't manipulate space and time?
Melkor and the rest of the Valar are walking concepts.
Some of them created and govern over the concept of fate, giving them at least some familiarity with it.
They are beings who shaped an entire universe and created time and space.
So based on what exactly are you assuming that they are bound to it and cannot control it?
Eternity in marvel is above time, yet time still passes for it.
Same for the tribunel, beyonders, and many more.
If you suggest that they have no control over it based on the fact that they see and are part of the passage if time, as the rest of the world, then by such a logic the living tribunel and his like are below time as well.
Which they absolutely not.
Aside from time passing for them, I see no other indication for them not having control over time.
Strong enough to break the fourth wall.
Melkor is literally Satan. which means he's the most powerful creation. the only thing stronger than him is God the creator himself. in this case that would be eru iluvatar.
Wtf is wrong with you?! YOUR AWESOMENESS IS TOO POWERFUL!!!
This video has some serious mistakes.
So try to not take it too seriously.
Hello again!
Batman would probably beat him.. With prep obviously.
BECAUSE HE'S *BATMAN* !!!!
With an Anti-Morgoth spray ofcourse
Tucked deep in his utility belt
Yep, Batman carries an Anti-Morgoth spray
Just in case some Reality wrapper chucked him in Middle Earth
Chuck Norris can be him
Good joke
Of course he could. BECAUSE HE'S FREAKING BATMAN!!!! But he wouldn't kill him, he would just beat the crap out of him and send him to Arkham Asylum.
I always believe that darkness is more powerful than anyone single person or being! I also believe that a combination of all good can topple anything darkness can bring forth!
I now extremely disagree with outerversal scaling especially considering the nature of Tolkien's Mythos cosmology which is loosely inspired by ancient Hebrew cosmology of the Bible. I no longer consider any Ainur close to outerversal non at all.
EÄ is all that is not a universe. The verse is as big as Eru's mind which is immesureable. Every ainur transcend creation and everything else made by Eru.
Timeless halls and Void are r>f infinite structures
@@侍-u1k
I don't even know what r>f even means or how you could even believe to such a paradigm that has no bases or even foundation which supports that claim.
@thenightgiant7185
Don't you think are inflating the cosmology of EA too much without testing it to prove the claim though? I no longer like modern overhighballing anymore as it's untested and extremely illiterate these days with false paradigms and fragmented passages which they use to insinuate.
How many times more powerfull is morgoth than sauron and was morgoth weaker at his weakest form than sauron?
Imagin power of Melkor in the finish of Dagor Dagorath than will bi the wikest kililng him literaly mins distruction of univers, then Sauron was faked only Baradur and half of mordor plato of gorgorot was distroed, dont forget first comandant of Melkor was Fankil , hi was faight against avar elfs ho was more numeros than in Beleriand eriador and rovanion 4 dwarths clans and mens , against Melkor was faight only Belegorst , Nagrod durin did not fight ,second was Hight lord of Balrogs , after was Glaurung , and for the fall of gondolin was anathe dragon in comand , in war of whrath was Ancalagon , so Sauron was only 6 , Glorfindel kil lord of Balrogs ho was in top 10 Best faiters in Middle Earth all time, Gilgalad ho kiled saurons body with Elendil, isnt ithen in top 20 , ithen Elendil isnt in top 20 all time, first is Turin after Beren Huor Hurin Tuor Bregolas Hador Bregor Elros Beor Marach Haleth etc., wariors from men said
Cripple morgoth is still super saiyan blue or mybe highter i put him past a beerss level
Why are you trying to make this simple video as incomprehensible as possible? Just talk like a normal person
Have you ever thought that this person might just be speaking too fast for you? He might be from Ireland, some people from there tend to speak quite fast.
Furthermore he might have been nervous. Or he might have a speach problems. You can adjust the speed of the video.
And then my man Tulkas came and rocked his socks off and tied him up with an Adamantium* chain lol
Morgoth is Lucifer and Tulcas is Michael Arhangel Manwe is Gabriel Mandos is Aide from greec mithologi
Clown
Crippled Morgoth vs Palpatine
Hamizan Yunos crippled morgoth was already universal
Morgoth
Skills: master in hand to hand combat and tactiction
So melkor indirectly made time a thing
True form morgoth: 12D to high 1b to outer to high outer aka (low hypervasl to high hypervasl to high 1A)