This comment is absolutely no disrespect to any other comment here…but i keep myself humble when serving by always remembering Jesus displayed the ultimate in serving. He had a mission and fulfilled that mission regardless of the disrespect he endured. Not just disrespect, but a grueling death. Keep things in a healthy perspective my musical bros and sisters! This is really stated in love for every person here and high regard for the gift given to each us by God our Father. Peace and blessings!!!❤
Man, I'm so sorry for the loss of your singers. Over the years, I've lost choir members and it's like losing a family member. You hit on some good points. When I do church music workshops, I offer a session titled, "Who ministers to the minister?" Those of us in Levitical positions are expected to pour out more and more, but like any vessel, we'll eventually need to be filled. The moment we're out of pocket or God forbid we take Sunday off, everyone's life is turned upside-down. We also need to be spiritually fed. We need mental health days. We need vacation days that don't include being on call. We need good communication with the pastor so that we don't have to anticipate the vision. We need love when we experience loss, etc.
For the near 49 1/2 years I have been playing, I Know That I Am Not Appreciated, & Underpaid!! Some Churches Want More Out of Us, & DON'T Care How Feel About Situations! We Are NOT Robots!!
believe or not we are point robots can play it all. We vocal synths that sound human. We have robots that play instruments. how ever a lot praise team so they should appreciated for what they do. a lot small church can not afford to pay a whole team. though the minister of music should be paid Because he his to do more than just show up for practice. his job to find song that theology sound. 2nd is figure what kind of music that congregation wants to listen too. I also accepted that church music will always be mediocre because it's impossible to please everyone. it why I make mine own music.
The last church I worked at, which was my home church which I was committed to with my family, hired a young minister of music and I thought this would be good, that there would be new music with a new attitude behind it. But during the first rehearsal, I started a particular song, correctly I might add, and the new music minister stopped me and raised his voice at me into the microphone, we were all IEMs mind you, to tell me I was playing it incorrectly. I tactfully stood up for myself, and asked him what he thought the proper way to play it was and did my best to accommodate him. After that rehearsal, I gave my notice and never went back. I’ve been a professional musician for 40 years, and I have never been spoken to like that before or since.
I have been a church musician for decades and while there were great experiences, there is also at times the petty politics, high school “cool kids” popularity contest and favoritism and cronism. One is the finger pointing such as “you are performance oriented or not spiritual enough”. Those kind of ministries are hard to change. I find it best to keep circulating until you find a church that is open to your talents and gifts. If God closed a door, it may mean that He wants you to go through a bigger door. God gave you your musical gifts for a reason. I’m in a mega church now that has let me play without any baggage and been very encouraging and made a lot of great friends. They are out there.
The best most permanent church musicians are those individuals who already have a solid career. As a matter of fact most ministers of the calling and different callings already have a career as I am stating again. Ministry should be financially secondary income especially with younger people. Everybody should always be respected and appreciated.
@@jamesanderson4014 Trence's videos give me the impression; the people he calls "church musicians" are not believers or members of the church they play for. They are just someone hired to play music.
I first experienced the disrespect in the pentecostal churches. But now is common in the majority of churches I've been in. Embarrassing musicians from the pulpit. Musicians are like punching bags for church leaders.
been doing worship since the late 70's. Follow God and not man. Make sure your relationship with Jesus is always fresh and one thing my sister in law who is in full time ministry in a mega church in So Cal said. It's GOING to be hard working with others. You have to decide if ministering to God's people is worth it. Has God called you to do that? God bless you in what ever HE calls you to 🤙
In 30 years of faithful service, I have worked full-time, part-time or volunteered with 7 churches. My most recent church, I have been with 11 years. I left two churches due to lack of appreciation or didn't feel right, I've been fired once (no reason given), laid off by one (lack of funds) quit one (the Pastor was an a-hole), I've had my PT salary cut 3 times at my current church but somehow, still feel appreciated. I've never had a pension or 401k offered, while working with Pastors with $90k to $110k plus salaries, full benefits packages and retirement funds, oh and some had all their housing paid, cell phones, gas, etc. I'm still doing it but this is my last church! I love Jesus ❤
Never seen your channel/videos before, but having been through these issues myself over the years, I can attest to the fact that you’re spot on and I subscribed. Thanks for sharing the truth on this matter.
It’s one thing to feel appreciated and another to feel like s star. I’ve had too many musicians join my group who were not first members of the church, only to leave when they didn’t get to play the solo or sing the lead. As a church musician, are we performing for the audience or are we leading the congregation in a performance for our God. If you’re there to perform for an audience then go play at a bar. Church is for community worship first and foremost. If your soul is in it, the congregation will show appreciation by their participation. God bless.
I can’t quite put my finger on it…it might be a combination of your dedication to professionalism and your delivery on these high quality videos that is frankly, oddly inspiring and pushes me to become a better musician. Anyhow, I really appreciate your time sharing these little valued nuggets and hope you continue going strong. God bless you and all church musicians out there in their struggles 🙏
I'm way ahead of you I quit on the idea of being a church ⛪️ musician because I've refused to set foot in a church since 1980 except once in 2012 and then I remembered why I stopped going in 1980 in the first place
Getting paid a nominal amount would make huge a difference. I have tons of high-quality gear, drive many miles, spend precious time practicing, etc... and it would sure help to get a little remuneration for that plus a little for what we bring. I've played in churches for decades for free. The best "pay" I ever got was directly from a congregant. I once quit because of the utterly awful mix quality, but the church resolved the issue and I ended up staying. One member told me how glad he was I was back. That meant a lot. I cynically tell my wife that God doesn't pay his musicians while clubs do. I played clubs back in the day and it helped me pay my way through college. I'm seriously considering getting back into that. I don't drink or like the club environment, but it still would be fun and would help out financially as a decent side hustle. As far as the people who go tot clubs go, they're adults and I respect their decisions to do what they do unless they endanger others by engaging in stupid behavior such as drunk driving.
The thing that gets me is quite obviously a lot of church musicians are far more dedicated to their work and craft than the pastors that bowl up on a Sunday and do a little motivational hypocritical pep talk and walk home for the week with the salary. 💣
every year the required rehearsals got more numerous for a 45 min production.. the lil jokes about being out late at nite playing somewhere the night before and “partying with ozzy osbourne”😆😆 got really old and when they cut me fifty bux the last years easter program, i simply went got my amp and havnt been back
I can't fully agree with that. Yes, we are to do our best for God, but a bad relationship with someone at church can ruin the whole environment for yourself and others. Especially, if it has to do with a Minister of Music or the Pastor. I've been able to avoid most conflicts in church, but that's honestly not the norm.
Im blessed to play for a great church for 22 years. I am dedicated to play at service. When outgoing events, i get paid more. It was 2 services, now its one. Our pay didn't change. During Covid, being a guitarist, the bassist and i, due the virus, did not have to play. My church, STILL paid my salary, the whole time, until Covid eased. Oh, and i just got another raise. And i can get any gear i want. In 2007, they got me $2300 Mesa Dual Rectifier. Had for years in service. After that, I got Fender Twin, i was able the keep the Mesa Half Stack and take it home.
You are so lucky. I've always had to bring my own amp. Good thing I have more than one. My church would never be any equipment for me. And they wonder why I got mad when someone let their little brat mess with my stuff. All the singers had to do was show up, and a mic was provided for them. I had to bring the stuff I paid GOOD money for
This must be a big church issue. I have been on multiple praise teams and have been in productions and never been paid or expected to be paid. It was about service unto God my reward is in heaven. I would never consider pay to worship him.
its not really about pay for me. I do because god has blessed me with a gift. Even if i didnt get paid i would be still doing it. But the fact of the matter the ministry has blessed me in turn there have been ups and downs but they still been good to me. The musicians in leviticus didnt work there sole purpose was to prepare for worship, so theres nothing wrong with getting a stipend :)
I feel the same way. To me its very strange that churches pay musicians to play worship for them. Worship team members should be volunteers from the same church they attend.
@@zacharykim295 Dont feel it strange. Let me bring scripture.And in Nehemiah 11:22b-23 says of the sons of Asaph, the singers were over the business of the house of God. For it was the Kings commandment concerning them, that a certain portion should be for the singers, due for everyday. The Temple had professional singers and musicians. They had their own portion, paid daily. But remember not all ministries are created equal :).
This also happens to Christian bands (that are not playing for churches). Many have quit altogether and some members have even walked away from Jesus. It's unfortunate because many of these bands released great albums.
This subject (obviously) elicits varied views & perspectives. I want to ask the musician viewers a practical question. (Particularly those who are of the mindset that ministries should not be expected to pay their musicians). For those who are formally trained (attended university or conservatory) and earned BA's, MA's, & higher in music disciplines... they probably have outstanding school loan debt (unless they were blessed with full tuition scholarships). In order to commit to regular Sunday worship services, one most likely has to forego opportunities to perform secular gigs on Saturday evenings. So, how do you rationalize the church community asking those folks to sacrifice INCOME, then further insulting them by not blessing them with a payment for their music performances?
I’ve been married now for 4 years and my wife has been asking me to leave church alone because of the lack of resprecation!!! They expect so much from me and I give them that I’m not getting the same expectation!!!
After playing in Praise bands for over 25 yrs, my experience is that church musicians are not victims unless they take that on. I’ve been in plenty of situations where it felt like it was a dare to keep showing up and doing my best but if you’re called to do it, do it. God will let you know when to stay and when to go. It’s his plan, not yours, the blessings you receive in the service to the Kingdom far out weigh the vicissitudes you deal with as a church musician (and in life).
I can't lie, it makes me feel good to see that this struggle is not only my own, but at the same time it's sad because then it means that it is a general thing to not value church musicians. I mean they do their best, not only for the congregants, but for God and it's quite upsetting that God made the Levites - the Children of Asaph (The musicians) one of the most important group of people in Israel and those scriptures and the general idea does not stick in most churches of the modern era.
Antidotal: for me I suffer from extreme cycles of imposter syndrome or the feeling like I am not talented enough to be on the same stage as the other players in our network. It’s a large church that has an embarrassment of riches in skilled and knowledgeable musicians. But I’m still here. When I think I can’t take anymore, I say give it one more week.
What is more important is the fact that Christ could've come before the 20th century if the church had faithfully carried forward the work of the Judean model of worship (I Thess.2:16). The betrayal of musicians (of which I devoted years to various churches, receiving no living wage in return) is nothing compared to betraying the congregation as to what sin is and what sin does. And today's prophecy gurus tell everyone to sit on their asses as if Bible prophecy is a form of entertainment when the LORD is soon to shake the tree (Revelation 13:13). This prophecy sets the stage for the closing events (Revelation 16 & Isaiah 24). And we need serious music to address the coming threat against our souls. "The time is short."
To the musician: do it with a servant's heart and for the glory of God, not for any "appreciation" from people. To the church: take time to show appreciation to the people who serve in ALL capacities, including the ones who empty trash cans and mop the bathrooms and, yes, musicians too.
@@fivepiece The problem is that custodial work doesn’t require thousands of hours of consistent practice to become skilled. Most people do not understand that music is so much more (especially worship) than we attribute value to. And some church leaders see the musicians in the same light as volunteer custodial work. I myself have served as a musician and cleaned up after people, mowed etc right along with a worship team many times. Being a skilled musician is undervalued in a lot of churches and we should be payed appropriately to the level of involvement just as a pastor is payed. Unfortunately, very unskilled musicians are used more often because they refuse to pay good ones that have the gift and put in the time to play skillfully. It’s not fun to be gaslighted into doing unpaid work that requires skill and be forced into leading worship with an unprepared team playing uninspired, lazy, dull and repetitive music. I think worshipping god through song should hold the highest standard of skill, inspiration and preparation. Just as a pastor is expected to do so.
@@jordob5791 I don't bother myself with any of the "I deserve" or "I'm owed" mindset. It brings nothing but bitterness and resentment and, finally, burnout. I stand by what I said: do it with a servant's heart and for the glory of God.
@@fivepiece I’m not saying it’s about deserving or being owed. It just funny that the pastor always gets paid but when the music side of the ministry comes around all the “servants heart, and glory of god” talk comes out. Of course you should be honoring god. That is a given and the most basic thing when doing any activity in church. We are talking about church leaders holding the music ministry below themselves in importance. This why Christian music sounds terrible in most churches. You don’t understand so you devalue.
@@fivepiece And your whole music ministry may be at a stage in their life where they have the time and resources to play skillfully that is awesome but that is rare. The Bible addresses these things. But it is ignored to the detriment of the church.
No pay. Being told it's a ministry and watching other people get paid who do way less than you with pay and you get nothing. It's easy for them to tell you they appreciate you, but it's a lie. They use people. A musician can't live off of 0$.
@@truealpha3527should musicians work for free? It is a big commitment in time and money. Good musical gear is far from cheap. One can work in a ministry, and get paid.
Hey Terence, You are one true Prophet in the stage of Psalmody. I believe you ought to travel the world by way of Visualisation and Share what Abba Father God Almighty jas installed into you to proclaim the true meaning of Praise and Worship in the Body of Christ Johnny K. Kellyville Sydney, Australia 🇦🇺 Love you Brother✝️👍🏽👍🏽😇
@@rrickarr They are not all well paid! Many of them also have heart problems from the stress they are under. Do you actually know any and how much they get paid?
Real appreciation is about the compensation first for me. I've played in church for about a decade and left as my life became too busy for it. Time is really money, especially when you have a family. You have to properly compensate for time to practice, rehearse and play at multiple services away from family to deliver a quality product.
Get your money man!!!!! It’s a business don’t get it twisted! Know your worth! There a lot of churches that’s about their business! Take opportunities that benefit you as a musician!!!
Notice in the New Teastament that no mention is made of musicians or musical instruments(except harps in the highly figurative-symbolic book of Revelation), except singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord! Just sayin'.
That's why I quit playing in church, and I don't have any desire to go back, these churches don't appreciate musicians, they treat us like a " jukebox" give us a few quarters and expect us to play all day.
My last church, I played for 25yrs, at the same VERY small salary, actually took a pay cut for months to pay Another musician who was paid more than twice my stipend, after he passed away, they went back to my original pay, I only missed FOUR SUNDAYS in 25yrs.... that is the ultimate feeling of disappointment in my worth. The Only reason I'm Not there now, my pastor decided that the Sabbath, was the true day of Worship, so they no longer have service on Sunday. I have a job in which I work Saturdays, I was told, to CALL OFF every Saturday, so I could continue to play. That was December 22, I STILL have the hiccups from laughing.....
First person to get there; last one to leave; and absolutely the LEAST appreciated! Someone told me about a Minister of Music Who was called in by the church governing board, and told that the church would no longer be paying him for his work. They expected him to continue his duties, he simply wasn't going to be paid for his work anymore. The reason they gave him is because, as a member of the church, he should "donate his service!" He was also informed at the church would continue paying the other musicians like the Bass Player and Drummer, who are not members of the church, just not him! In other words, they are not going to take care of their own, they're going to take care of outsiders! This is a common theme in many churches!
Christ is Lord!!! He is worthy of my free worship!!! He died for my sins!!! Forget the glitz, and glam, I'm an average human being, trying to live!!! He reigns, not the praise team!!!
I thought one played music in church as an expression of worship to God. Imagine my surprise to discover that it’s just another job, after all, and the main focus is how the musician is treated… and paid (!?!) No boo-hoos for them. I am glad they are leaving. They show that they have the wrong motives and heart attitude. The postmodern church is a dumpster. Let’s get back to home churches and attending for the right reasons.
So musicians shouldn't be appreciated?!? No one is saying they deserve special treatment, but come on. See people want to quote scriptures that they twisted around to justify not respecting their musicians. It's not even about the money, because I did it for free. Just show some common freaking respect!!
lol wow I’ve been on the reversed appreciation game for a year now and he’s right. I looked at it as campaigning tho, but I like his explanation. I was already loved by the mothers of the church and youth ministry, but now I have the deacons and some outreach ministry leaders on my side and like 4 out of 10 ministers too. I told myself I’m going to put myself among the people. Now the pastor calls me boss lol on live stream! (mostly in jest, but he knows I run the church for real). Only person I can’t get on my side is the First Lady 🤦🏾♂️ she covertly hates me. I feel appreciated and protected at the church now.
The problem I have with that above and beyond advice is, many if not most of us do that already. I've even been shot down for it. It was " shut up and play your guitar". I even gave the pastor and his daughter free guitar lessons. Led Praise and Worship once. All this and more is going the extra mile.
Unpopular truth... THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO WORSHIP GOD BESIDES MUSIC! Worship with obedience, worship with joy, worship by telling God how grateful you are. What passes for worship at most modern churches is not about lifting up the Most High God. As a lifelong professional musician, I have learned that using my God-given talents to bring joy to people wherever they may be is a legitimate calling... especially in such dark days. If you do not feel right about playing at church, GET OUT! Spread love, folks.
I went to a church in Nashville, Tn several years ago. I was completely turned off by the music. The music leader misquoted scripture and made stuff up to get cheer and applause. They had a light show during the music and tried to turn it into a concert. My wife and I just looked at each in disgust. After church was over a guy approached me and asked what I thought of their music ministry. I told him that the music leader/band was talented but not very scripturally sound. I told him the claims that the leader made were false. The guy just stared at me and walked away. I'm more of a traditional church music guy. If I want Christian Rock/Hard Rock then I will listen to Demon Hunter or Wolves at the Gate.
Let me tell all the quitting musicians something. ITS ABOUT GOD/JESUS. IF YOURE NOT UP THERE TO BRING OTHERS TO WORSHIP OR TO GLORIFY GOD AND NOT YOURSELF, THEN QUIT. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU! YOU ARE NOT PLAYING FOR YOURSELF. YOU ARE NOT PLAYING OR SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING FOR MONEY. God,Jesus should have all the glory and preeminence. The churches today are so watered down and misprioritized. God is not the focus. It's lights, music and flare. musicians crying because they don't feel appreciated. Please. It's not about you. Wake up, and shift your focus back to God and not your own self.
If its ur only job at $500 a week . play for funeral homes j weddings, give lessons or also work another paid position at the church to bump up ur pay and in any job out something up
Biblically speaking theirs no such thing as a minister of music the five fold ministry consists of Apostles, prophets,evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Their are worship leaders and musicians which are essential in ushering in the presence of the holy spirit that is their function. Unfortunately within the church today theirs a big confusion between worship and praise. Theirs a big difference between the two. Should we be paid to play music remember this if you take money to do this, you already have your reward. The worker is worthy of wages this is a Biblical principal I've heard of music leaders in mega churches commanding 60g a year each must decide within themselves the motive for why you do it. Remember what Jesus said the least among you is the greatest in heaven. If your playing unto the Lord of heaven and earth and you understand that your sincere act of worship is as incense to the throne room then you won't need people's approval. I've been drumming for 42 years and played on a few worship teams over the years. For me personally I can't charge a church to give back to God the gift which he has given me to bring glory to his name that name is Jesus!
I played in church half my life. Mostly unpaid. Glad to have learned in those circles, but have had better treatment in bars. You can't spend your life playing with bad players doing cover songs that are cheesy. The Lord is Heaven a) is not 3 people b) doesn't want you to waste your talent c) Praise" genres aren't drawing you closer to God
A church musician must be also be christian, must be people who give his heart to Jesus convert christian, not just come to church play your music get pay and go home.😮
I would like to support and appreciate Terence for posting the video. For some of you who commented that you don't expect any appreciation from church and that you lend free service to church. This Video is not for you ! This video is for talents who submitted and committed not only their lives but also their talents to the Lord and His service; People who committed not only their lives but also their talents to the Lord and His service do not know any other job other than spending their God given talents in service to Church which is a specialised full-time work area, just like full-time pastors. If you have some other financial stream as a living for you and your family, all good, nothing wrong about it, but your situation is completely different when compared to others who completely are set apart for the Lord and His service, so please make your comments in light of this reality rather than in a boastful way, telling others that you are working free for God, which do not make any sense because you are fully employed else where, where as people who commited their lifes to the service of the Lord are like little Samuels, whose life is for the service of the church and the church ought to look after their needs just like the pastors; David fully supported the full-time temple musicians in the OT. Full-time Pastors = Full-time tech = Full-time musicians = Full-time anybody for Church are all equal in the sight of God and all of them have to be looked after by the church equally well. There is no big, small, or least in Church. Remember, what our dear Lord Jesus said, "the First will be last and the least will be first".
Practically every clergy I have worked with think they are better than the musician. Musicians are called just like ministers. Musicians aren’t better than clergy and clergy aren’t better than musicians. Change thinking to reflect this perspective and the environment will change dramatically.
Hmmm. I hear words like corporate, money in this video. Isn't everything we do supposed to be for the glory of God? In recognition of what He has done for us and not what we do?
As a musician who grew up in church and played in church, I stopped playing because I wanted to be free of "Churchy" people and everything that goes with them...
First thing is first - Jesus never said "Go build buildings that cost millions of dollars and that requires a continuing flow of cash to function and maintain, then solely focus on growing that congregation "in my name" until you have to build bigger, rinse repeat until you've bought out a stadium." But... since that's the game that everyone decided to play, here we are. The lead pastor doesn't get paid in Jesus bucks. The associate pastor doesn't get paid in Jesus bucks. The worship leader and administrative staff don't get paid in Jesus bucks. The guy who gets hired to fix the air conditioner when it breaks down does not get paid in Jesus bucks. So, outside of a very small, brand new church that has no choice but to rely on volunteerism, there is no excuse not to provide payment for the amount of work that it takes to keep and maintain a "church". I'm not saying that it's every single church, but I can tell you that religion is weaponized in a way to make you feel like "I shouldn't ask or expect payment, because it's for Jesus." I can speak from experience, volunteering for several churches over the years... they do not care about you, the person. They care about what you can bring to the table to help them grow. Why do you think so many churches have some sort of slogan, like "Give God your time, talent and treasure!" It's like an MLM - you keep bringing people to the church so they can have a bigger and bigger talent pool of volunteers to pull from, so when people wise up and leave or get burned out, some other poor soul that's been indoctrinated can fill the gap. I have found that typically, if you're the only person who can do [whatever thing is] then you are very valuable, and you can generally request monetization and you will get it. But, as soon as there is at least one more person, and especially if there are several, then your value plummets. You can leave and never come back without saying a word and you might get one to three calls or texts from people initially, then it's crickets. Like you were never even there. I no longer buy into that lie. It's corruption in my opinion. You can't be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on making a concert-level sanctuary, then get your panties in a knot when someone wants to be paid for their time and talent.
Churches want you to donate your talent and rehearse for no money. They just expect it? Pastors get paid so should the musiciAns? I quit going to church cause they want you to do work for the church with no pay.
I can tolerate not being paid, but when the worship leader is being paid a living wage just for picking out 4/5 songs for Sunday, and I'm getting nothing, that's when I call BS!!
Appreciated has nothing do do with anything! Those " church musicians " aren't playing music for GOD!! HE IS our great reward!! Quit serving GOD for you and start serving HIM!!
Wow. Zero references to Scripture to guide our thoughts here. This was all worldy wisdom, treating our call to lead the people of God in sung worship as just a job. To all seeking man's appreciation, I'm sure you'll find it and be rewarded here on earth for it, but rest assured no further reward awaits (Matt 6:v5).
Yeah, it's this line of thinking that's the problem. Overly religious people think that EVERYTHING has to have some scriptural reference. We don't need a scripture to understand that appreciating and treating others fairly is important. And it's always funny that the people who receive the abuse are told they are somehow wrong for speaking out about it. How about you ask those churches and preachers and such who take musicians for granted, treat them badly, and don't appreciate them what scriptures they are using for reference to treat musicians that way...
I’m sorry but this doesn’t work. I’ve been playing in churches for free for 40 plus years. I’ve never been paid a dime and no one ever appreciated me. It’s worse now. I go to a mobile church and set up tear down every Sunday. I was even asked to tear down the drums when I didn’t even play drums that day. I was even told that they pay pros but that’s crazy that they don’t pay the faithful. I’m very discouraged.
Without really even needing to watch the video, I can tell you why musicians quit church. It’s because they stopped looking at it as ministry and considered it a job. When you understand the concept that it’s not about you and it’s about Him, it’s ministry. When you start considering it a job, it’s just like any other job, you can quit whenever you feel like it and move on.
As a former music pastor and as an ongoing member of a music team in a large church, I have to say that this is not always the case. It's easy for people to start saying this save this and to use it as a way to bash people who need to take a step back, but I have known plenty of Music ministers who push their people to the breaking point expecting to expecting them to do ridiculous amounts of work with little to no compensation or appreciation. Yes, most of us are volunteers, but the apostles also said that a Workman is worth his hire.
I'd love to see 90% of church musicians quit. The western church worships music, not God and its all entertainment. Go bact to the house church format with non professionals. Yes, have singing, but maybe just one guitar, not just sing acapella like Jesus at the last supper.
Your their. For Jesus. To devote time to him...not self recognition. U play for Jesus not for others. Jesus. The son of heavenly father. Appericates. An enjoys. Hearing u play. N sing. It's not the ppl your their for...
I am one of the victims. Musicians are paid well and respected well in secular music industry. First of all God doesn't need multi billion dollar churches for His Glory. All God wants is our humble hearts with reverence and submission. Church doesn't need paid musicians or Rock show lighting system, huge led displays, security guards for pastors, or billions of dollars of funds etc. Everyone should read about the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation. That's all God wanted. These multi billion dollar heavens are man made for himself, because God doesn't need any money. Poor musicians are one small part who would be victimized in the process. Think about the reason why People are running away from Church. Many hillsong pastors are waving a goodbye to their faith, immorality seeping inside at every level. A church coming together to worship ,should worship God all together. It needs no worship leader or any millions of dollars of tech involved. But if a Church needs Tech and musicians, they should pay them with respect and they should honor them for their commitment to serving God. Even a gatekeeper in a Church is being honored in God's sight equivalent to the pastor. It's that everyone is doing their role. Finally the assumption Church leaders creates in people minds that Church is house of God or temple of God is theologically a misleading concept. Biblically speaking Church is just you, me and we. It's people of God. Our bodies are the temple of God. You don't have to God to Church to see God or to party to God. You can don't anywhere. The best example is the pandemic time, where Church behaved like how they should according to the Word of God. People worshiped God on streets, in parking lots and at their homes. They broke bread from where they are physically. There was no use of tech, pastors didn't have to be paid. Pastors went for part time jobs to support their families (not the rich pastors though, many of them are stinking rich) now I stopped giving money to rich churches altogether. I will support pastors or believers who are in need, and not who are full already. Its not just musicians, people are also leaving church these days. But yeas this is an important video for church musicians. Let me know your thoughts.
Sorry but the only appreciation I need is the ALMIGHTY ONE. Sounds like the church is not putting the kindness,humbleness,love of the lord before anything else.
Lets look at it from a different standpoint...as a freelance sound engineer...I find the ones that are "quitting" (not all) aren't half as talented as they think they are. They might feel underappreciated or underpaid...but can I get a little or even a lot more talent/skill with that attitude...The bigger the church the bigger the diva in these type musicians. Guitarist/bass/ & keys have literally zero understanding of how to gainstage their own rig. Guitarist who can't play in tune, or a pedal board that's beyond noisy....or better yet..."do you have an 1/4" cable?" and they want to be more appreciated or better paid...Hard Pass!!! I get it if you are a "professional musician", but come preprared and act like a real professional. Most of these types (not all)who are quitting don't exhibit any trait of professionalism. Sorry but this cuts both ways. And yes the irony isn't lost on me being a sound guy...my profession has a crap ton of problem people too.
The ONLY reason to be a musician in church is to PRAISE GOD! To whine about not being appreciated is to put SELF FIRST, and its VANITY. This is not to say its ok not to appreciate musicians...they should be, but if their motivation is SELF, then the problem is THEM!
That's like saying, "I am a father who works hard and takes care of my family. And that's all that I'm concerned with. it. Doesn't matter if my family appreciates me for what I do." Sometimes, you people get too "churchy" with these answers, live in the real world.
i am so glad i don't play in church ..i cannot deal with the politics in churches........worst part is the fakeness i see ...i am real so i will hold back for anyone
Really appreciate what you do. It's like having a friend to talk to who understands what we go through as Church musicians
I really appreciate your kind words!!
I feel you brother. No raises , skipped over and kindness taken for granted !!!
This comment is absolutely no disrespect to any other comment here…but i keep myself humble when serving by always remembering Jesus displayed the ultimate in serving. He had a mission and fulfilled that mission regardless of the disrespect he endured. Not just disrespect, but a grueling death. Keep things in a healthy perspective my musical bros and sisters! This is really stated in love for every person here and high regard for the gift given to each us by God our Father. Peace and blessings!!!❤
May everything we do be all for the Glory of God don’t count on man giving you the appreciation God knows your heart and will bless you 🙏
U speaking facts bro....We are taken for granted on so many levels!!
Man, I'm so sorry for the loss of your singers. Over the years, I've lost choir members and it's like losing a family member. You hit on some good points. When I do church music workshops, I offer a session titled, "Who ministers to the minister?" Those of us in Levitical positions are expected to pour out more and more, but like any vessel, we'll eventually need to be filled. The moment we're out of pocket or God forbid we take Sunday off, everyone's life is turned upside-down. We also need to be spiritually fed. We need mental health days. We need vacation days that don't include being on call. We need good communication with the pastor so that we don't have to anticipate the vision. We need love when we experience loss, etc.
For the near 49 1/2 years I have been playing, I Know That I Am Not Appreciated, & Underpaid!! Some Churches Want More Out of Us, & DON'T Care How Feel About Situations! We Are NOT Robots!!
believe or not we are point robots can play it all. We vocal synths that sound human. We have robots that play instruments.
how ever a lot praise team so they should appreciated for what they do. a lot small church can not afford to pay a whole team. though the minister of music should be paid Because he his to do more than just show up for practice. his job to find song that theology sound. 2nd is figure what kind of music that congregation wants to listen too. I also accepted that church music will always be mediocre because it's impossible to please everyone. it why I make mine own music.
The last church I worked at, which was my home church which I was committed to with my family, hired a young minister of music and I thought this would be good, that there would be new music with a new attitude behind it. But during the first rehearsal, I started a particular song, correctly I might add, and the new music minister stopped me and raised his voice at me into the microphone, we were all IEMs mind you, to tell me I was playing it incorrectly. I tactfully stood up for myself, and asked him what he thought the proper way to play it was and did my best to accommodate him. After that rehearsal, I gave my notice and never went back. I’ve been a professional musician for 40 years, and I have never been spoken to like that before or since.
Hooray 🎉👏
I have been a church musician for decades and while there were great experiences, there is also at times the petty politics, high school “cool kids” popularity contest and favoritism and cronism. One is the finger pointing such as “you are performance oriented or not spiritual enough”. Those kind of ministries are hard to change. I find it best to keep circulating until you find a church that is open to your talents and gifts. If God closed a door, it may mean that He wants you to go through a bigger door. God gave you your musical gifts for a reason. I’m in a mega church now that has let me play without any baggage and been very encouraging and made a lot of great friends. They are out there.
The best most permanent church musicians are those individuals who already have a solid career. As a matter of fact most ministers of the calling and different callings already have a career as I am stating again. Ministry should be financially secondary income especially with younger people. Everybody should always be respected and appreciated.
The musicians that play at your church are they believers/ members of your church?
Absolutely and all musicians have their own careers.
I agree! Career or just a second job in general.
@@jamesanderson4014 Trence's videos give me the impression; the people he calls "church musicians" are not believers or members of the church they play for. They are just someone hired to play music.
I first experienced the disrespect in the pentecostal churches. But now is common in the majority of churches I've been in. Embarrassing musicians from the pulpit. Musicians are like punching bags for church leaders.
I experienced this in pentecostal and baptist churches as well..
I have been a keyboardist for a catholic church for 30 year. I love doing this for the Lord.
been doing worship since the late 70's. Follow God and not man. Make sure your relationship with Jesus is always fresh and one thing my sister in law who is in full time ministry in a mega church in So Cal said. It's GOING to be hard working with others. You have to decide if ministering to God's people is worth it. Has God called you to do that? God bless you in what ever HE calls you to 🤙
Appreciation is big.
In 30 years of faithful service, I have worked full-time, part-time or volunteered with 7 churches. My
most recent church, I have been with 11 years. I left two churches due to lack of appreciation or didn't feel right, I've been fired once (no reason given), laid off by one (lack of funds) quit one (the Pastor was an a-hole), I've had my PT salary cut 3 times at my current church but somehow, still feel appreciated. I've never had a pension or 401k offered, while working with Pastors with $90k to $110k plus salaries, full benefits packages and retirement funds, oh and some had all their housing paid, cell phones, gas, etc. I'm still doing it but this is my last church! I love Jesus ❤
Never seen your channel/videos before, but having been through these issues myself over the years, I can attest to the fact that you’re spot on and I subscribed. Thanks for sharing the truth on this matter.
Makes me super happy to see this. I was a worship pastor years ago and I’d never go back again.
Praying for you bro during your time of loss-the first 3 minutes of your video resonates
I didn't know all of this. Well now, musicians should get paid and respected for lifting our spirits.
Thank for This Advise
It’s one thing to feel appreciated and another to feel like s star. I’ve had too many musicians join my group who were not first members of the church, only to leave when they didn’t get to play the solo or sing the lead. As a church musician, are we performing for the audience or are we leading the congregation in a performance for our God. If you’re there to perform for an audience then go play at a bar. Church is for community worship first and foremost. If your soul is in it, the congregation will show appreciation by their participation. God bless.
I'm not a church musician, but have gotten into discussions about pay. I was surprised at how many church musicians believe they should not be paid.
Are the pastors and associates paid?
Thanks, I can relate on so many levels.
Yes Sir your talking right your a inspiration To me man
I can’t quite put my finger on it…it might be a combination of your dedication to professionalism and your delivery on these high quality videos that is frankly, oddly inspiring and pushes me to become a better musician. Anyhow, I really appreciate your time sharing these little valued nuggets and hope you continue going strong. God bless you and all church musicians out there in their struggles 🙏
Starting to see why I never got the gig. God said no! Keep training.
You got a scammer on your site. Never trust telegram.
I'm way ahead of you I quit on the idea of being a church ⛪️ musician because I've refused to set foot in a church since 1980 except once in 2012 and then I remembered why I stopped going in 1980 in the first place
Getting paid a nominal amount would make huge a difference. I have tons of high-quality gear, drive many miles, spend precious time practicing, etc... and it would sure help to get a little remuneration for that plus a little for what we bring. I've played in churches for decades for free. The best "pay" I ever got was directly from a congregant. I once quit because of the utterly awful mix quality, but the church resolved the issue and I ended up staying. One member told me how glad he was I was back. That meant a lot. I cynically tell my wife that God doesn't pay his musicians while clubs do. I played clubs back in the day and it helped me pay my way through college. I'm seriously considering getting back into that. I don't drink or like the club environment, but it still would be fun and would help out financially as a decent side hustle. As far as the people who go tot clubs go, they're adults and I respect their decisions to do what they do unless they endanger others by engaging in stupid behavior such as drunk driving.
The thing that gets me is quite obviously a lot of church musicians are far more dedicated to their work and craft than the pastors that bowl up on a Sunday and do a little motivational hypocritical pep talk and walk home for the week with the salary. 💣
every year the required rehearsals got more numerous for a 45 min production.. the lil jokes about being out late at nite playing somewhere the night before and “partying with ozzy osbourne”😆😆 got really old and when they cut me fifty bux the last years easter program, i simply went got my amp and havnt been back
Bruh, did they reduce your check by $50.00, or did they cut you a $50.00 *_CHECK?_*
@@ruminantmelanoid5444they reduced my check by $50 without telling me.. surprise!
Great information and very well appreciated. 👍🏿
Great video! We added it to our article. :)
Bro, you spoke a word in the first 60 seconds.
I mean really all we need to worry about is doing our best for God, not if some church admin person likes you or not
I can't fully agree with that. Yes, we are to do our best for God, but a bad relationship with someone at church can ruin the whole environment for yourself and others. Especially, if it has to do with a Minister of Music or the Pastor. I've been able to avoid most conflicts in church, but that's honestly not the norm.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. In addition to that , God is a God of order and peace not disorder and confusion.
If there is no order then disrespect and confusion occurs and individuals take advantage of that especially when given a title.
Im blessed to play for a great church for 22 years. I am dedicated to play at service. When outgoing events, i get paid more. It was 2 services, now its one. Our pay didn't change. During Covid, being a guitarist, the bassist and i, due the virus, did not have to play. My church, STILL paid my salary, the whole time, until Covid eased. Oh, and i just got another raise. And i can get any gear i want. In 2007, they got me $2300 Mesa Dual Rectifier. Had for years in service. After that, I got Fender Twin, i was able the keep the Mesa Half Stack and take it home.
U are blessed
You are so lucky. I've always had to bring my own amp. Good thing I have more than one. My church would never be any equipment for me. And they wonder why I got mad when someone let their little brat mess with my stuff. All the singers had to do was show up, and a mic was provided for them. I had to bring the stuff I paid GOOD money for
This must be a big church issue. I have been on multiple praise teams and have been in productions and never been paid or expected to be paid. It was about service unto God my reward is in heaven. I would never consider pay to worship him.
Wow man!! RESPECT 🔥🔥🔥
AMEN 🙏🏻
its not really about pay for me. I do because god has blessed me with a gift. Even if i didnt get paid i would be still doing it. But the fact of the matter the ministry has blessed me in turn there have been ups and downs but they still been good to me. The musicians in leviticus didnt work there sole purpose was to prepare for worship, so theres nothing wrong with getting a stipend :)
I feel the same way. To me its very strange that churches pay musicians to play worship for them. Worship team members should be volunteers from the same church they attend.
@@zacharykim295 Dont feel it strange. Let me bring scripture.And in Nehemiah 11:22b-23 says of the sons of Asaph, the singers were over the business of the house of God. For it was the Kings commandment concerning them, that a certain portion should be for the singers, due for everyday. The Temple had professional singers and musicians. They had their own portion, paid daily. But remember not all ministries are created equal :).
Isn't there a musicians union in the United States? Don't you get Union scale?
This also happens to Christian bands (that are not playing for churches). Many have quit altogether and some members have even walked away from Jesus. It's unfortunate because many of these bands released great albums.
This subject (obviously) elicits varied views & perspectives. I want to ask the musician viewers a practical question. (Particularly those who are of the mindset that ministries should not be expected to pay their musicians).
For those who are formally trained (attended university or conservatory) and earned BA's, MA's, & higher in music disciplines... they probably have outstanding school loan debt (unless they were blessed with full tuition scholarships). In order to commit to regular Sunday worship services, one most likely has to forego opportunities to perform secular gigs on Saturday evenings.
So, how do you rationalize the church community asking those folks to sacrifice INCOME, then further insulting them by not blessing them with a payment for their music performances?
I’ve been married now for 4 years and my wife has been asking me to leave church alone because of the lack of resprecation!!! They expect so much from me and I give them that I’m not getting the same expectation!!!
What is it you are asked to do? By the look of it you must be doing so much.
After playing in Praise bands for over 25 yrs, my experience is that church musicians are not victims unless they take that on. I’ve been in plenty of situations where it felt like it was a dare to keep showing up and doing my best but if you’re called to do it, do it. God will let you know when to stay and when to go. It’s his plan, not yours, the blessings you receive in the service to the Kingdom far out weigh the vicissitudes you deal with as a church musician (and in life).
APPRECIATION!!!, it's like trying to get paid for what you enjoy doin....LOL🤣🤣🤣
Sad but true.
I can't lie, it makes me feel good to see that this struggle is not only my own, but at the same time it's sad because then it means that it is a general thing to not value church musicians. I mean they do their best, not only for the congregants, but for God and it's quite upsetting that God made the Levites - the Children of Asaph (The musicians) one of the most important group of people in Israel and those scriptures and the general idea does not stick in most churches of the modern era.
God's glory in the earth, from generation to generation, is worth my praise!!! Don't nees your money to praise Him in my own home!!!
Antidotal: for me I suffer from extreme cycles of imposter syndrome or the feeling like I am not talented enough to be on the same stage as the other players in our network. It’s a large church that has an embarrassment of riches in skilled and knowledgeable musicians.
But I’m still here. When I think I can’t take anymore, I say give it one more week.
What is more important is the fact that Christ could've come before the 20th century if the church had faithfully carried forward the work of the Judean model of worship (I Thess.2:16).
The betrayal of musicians (of which I devoted years to various churches, receiving no living wage in return) is nothing compared to betraying the congregation as to what sin is and what sin does.
And today's prophecy gurus tell everyone to sit on their asses as if Bible prophecy is a form of entertainment when the LORD is soon to shake the tree (Revelation 13:13).
This prophecy sets the stage for the closing events (Revelation 16 & Isaiah 24). And we need serious music to address the coming threat against our souls. "The time is short."
To the musician: do it with a servant's heart and for the glory of God, not for any "appreciation" from people. To the church: take time to show appreciation to the people who serve in ALL capacities, including the ones who empty trash cans and mop the bathrooms and, yes, musicians too.
Amen to both.
@@fivepiece The problem is that custodial work doesn’t require thousands of hours of consistent practice to become skilled. Most people do not understand that music is so much more (especially worship) than we attribute value to. And some church leaders see the musicians in the same light as volunteer custodial work. I myself have served as a musician and cleaned up after people, mowed etc right along with a worship team many times. Being a skilled musician is undervalued in a lot of churches and we should be payed appropriately to the level of involvement just as a pastor is payed. Unfortunately, very unskilled musicians are used more often because they refuse to pay good ones that have the gift and put in the time to play skillfully. It’s not fun to be gaslighted into doing unpaid work that requires skill and be forced into leading worship with an unprepared team playing uninspired, lazy, dull and repetitive music. I think worshipping god through song should hold the highest standard of skill, inspiration and preparation. Just as a pastor is expected to do so.
@@jordob5791 I don't bother myself with any of the "I deserve" or "I'm owed" mindset. It brings nothing but bitterness and resentment and, finally, burnout. I stand by what I said: do it with a servant's heart and for the glory of God.
@@fivepiece I’m not saying it’s about deserving or being owed. It just funny that the pastor always gets paid but when the music side of the ministry comes around all the “servants heart, and glory of god” talk comes out. Of course you should be honoring god. That is a given and the most basic thing when doing any activity in church. We are talking about church leaders holding the music ministry below themselves in importance. This why Christian music sounds terrible in most churches. You don’t understand so you devalue.
@@fivepiece And your whole music ministry may be at a stage in their life where they have the time and resources to play skillfully that is awesome but that is rare. The Bible addresses these things. But it is ignored to the detriment of the church.
No pay. Being told it's a ministry and watching other people get paid who do way less than you with pay and you get nothing. It's easy for them to tell you they appreciate you, but it's a lie. They use people. A musician can't live off of 0$.
Do you believe in the God you lead a congregation to worship?
@@truealpha3527should musicians work for free? It is a big commitment in time and money. Good musical gear is far from cheap.
One can work in a ministry, and get paid.
@@truealpha3527 yes
Hey Terence, You are one true Prophet in the stage of Psalmody. I believe you ought to travel the world by way of Visualisation and Share what Abba Father God Almighty jas installed into you to proclaim the true meaning of Praise and Worship in the Body of Christ
Johnny K. Kellyville Sydney, Australia 🇦🇺
Love you Brother✝️👍🏽👍🏽😇
Problem is, people are doing it for money and/or recognition and NOT for the glory of God!
It’s not everyone that minister for the money.
nickmartinez: So why are pastors so well paid!
Think that’s pastors your talking about there
@@rrickarr They are not all well paid! Many of them also have heart problems from the stress they are under. Do you actually know any and how much they get paid?
so the Levites were musicians and singers for the money too?
Real appreciation is about the compensation first for me. I've played in church for about a decade and left as my life became too busy for it. Time is really money, especially when you have a family. You have to properly compensate for time to practice, rehearse and play at multiple services away from family to deliver a quality product.
Get your money man!!!!! It’s a business don’t get it twisted! Know your worth! There a lot of churches that’s about their business! Take opportunities that benefit you as a musician!!!
Notice in the New Teastament that no mention is made of musicians or musical instruments(except harps in the highly figurative-symbolic book of Revelation), except singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord! Just sayin'.
That's why I quit playing in church, and I don't have any desire to go back, these churches don't appreciate musicians, they treat us like a " jukebox" give us a few quarters and expect us to play all day.
My last church, I played for 25yrs, at the same VERY small salary, actually took a pay cut for months to pay Another musician who was paid more than twice my stipend, after he passed away, they went back to my original pay, I only missed FOUR SUNDAYS in 25yrs.... that is the ultimate feeling of disappointment in my worth. The Only reason I'm Not there now, my pastor decided that the Sabbath, was the true day of Worship, so they no longer have service on Sunday. I have a job in which I work Saturdays, I was told, to CALL OFF every Saturday, so I could continue to play. That was December 22, I STILL have the hiccups from laughing.....
Paycheck? what paycheck? Lol. The only person on our team that gets paid is the WL. I play because to serve the Lord, not myself.
Interesting I didn't know this was going on.
First person to get there; last one to leave; and absolutely the LEAST appreciated!
Someone told me about a Minister of Music Who was called in by the church governing board, and told that the church would no longer be paying him for his work. They expected him to continue his duties, he simply wasn't going to be paid for his work anymore. The reason they gave him is because, as a member of the church, he should "donate his service!" He was also informed at the church would continue paying the other musicians like the Bass Player and Drummer, who are not members of the church, just not him! In other words, they are not going to take care of their own, they're going to take care of outsiders! This is a common theme in many churches!
Christ is Lord!!! He is worthy of my free worship!!! He died for my sins!!! Forget the glitz, and glam, I'm an average human being, trying to live!!! He reigns, not the praise team!!!
I thought one played music in church as an expression of worship to God. Imagine my surprise to discover that it’s just another job, after all, and the main focus is how the musician is treated… and paid (!?!)
No boo-hoos for them. I am glad they are leaving. They show that they have the wrong motives and heart attitude.
The postmodern church is a dumpster. Let’s get back to home churches and attending for the right reasons.
So musicians shouldn't be appreciated?!? No one is saying they deserve special treatment, but come on. See people want to quote scriptures that they twisted around to justify not respecting their musicians. It's not even about the money, because I did it for free. Just show some common freaking respect!!
The expectations of a church musician can sometimes be a bit much.
lol wow I’ve been on the reversed appreciation game for a year now and he’s right. I looked at it as campaigning tho, but I like his explanation.
I was already loved by the mothers of the church and youth ministry, but now I have the deacons and some outreach ministry leaders on my side and like 4 out of 10 ministers too. I told myself I’m going to put myself among the people. Now the pastor calls me boss lol on live stream! (mostly in jest, but he knows I run the church for real). Only person I can’t get on my side is the First Lady 🤦🏾♂️ she covertly hates me.
I feel appreciated and protected at the church now.
The problem I have with that above and beyond advice is, many if not most of us do that already. I've even been shot down for it. It was " shut up and play your guitar". I even gave the pastor and his daughter free guitar lessons. Led Praise and Worship once. All this and more is going the extra mile.
Unpopular truth... THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO WORSHIP GOD BESIDES MUSIC! Worship with obedience, worship with joy, worship by telling God how grateful you are. What passes for worship at most modern churches is not about lifting up the Most High God. As a lifelong professional musician, I have learned that using my God-given talents to bring joy to people wherever they may be is a legitimate calling... especially in such dark days. If you do not feel right about playing at church, GET OUT! Spread love, folks.
If these musicians quit playing at church, would they actually find a church to attend and worship? That's the million dollar question.
I went to a church in Nashville, Tn several years ago. I was completely turned off by the music. The music leader misquoted scripture and made stuff up to get cheer and applause. They had a light show during the music and tried to turn it into a concert. My wife and I just looked at each in disgust. After church was over a guy approached me and asked what I thought of their music ministry. I told him that the music leader/band was talented but not very scripturally sound. I told him the claims that the leader made were false. The guy just stared at me and walked away. I'm more of a traditional church music guy. If I want Christian Rock/Hard Rock then I will listen to Demon Hunter or Wolves at the Gate.
I play at a church they make me feel very appreciated, I am not very good so that is surprising.
I thought that if i came in playing for the church and put God first everything would f ok
I thought it was the same everywhere - voluntary
Let me tell all the quitting musicians something. ITS ABOUT GOD/JESUS. IF YOURE NOT UP THERE TO BRING OTHERS TO WORSHIP OR TO GLORIFY GOD AND NOT YOURSELF, THEN QUIT. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU! YOU ARE NOT PLAYING FOR YOURSELF. YOU ARE NOT PLAYING OR SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING FOR MONEY.
God,Jesus should have all the glory and preeminence. The churches today are so watered down and misprioritized. God is not the focus. It's lights, music and flare. musicians crying because they don't feel appreciated. Please. It's not about you. Wake up, and shift your focus back to God and not your own self.
If its ur only job at $500 a week . play for funeral homes j weddings, give lessons or also work another paid position at the church to bump up ur pay and in any job out something up
Biblically speaking theirs no such thing as a minister of music the five fold ministry consists of Apostles, prophets,evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Their are worship leaders and musicians which are essential in ushering in the presence of the holy spirit that is their function. Unfortunately within the church today theirs a big confusion between worship and praise. Theirs a big difference between the two. Should we be paid to play music remember this if you take money to do this, you already have your reward. The worker is worthy of wages this is a Biblical principal I've heard of music leaders in mega churches commanding 60g a year each must decide within themselves the motive for why you do it. Remember what Jesus said the least among you is the greatest in heaven. If your playing unto the Lord of heaven and earth and you understand that your sincere act of worship is as incense to the throne room then you won't need people's approval. I've been drumming for 42 years and played on a few worship teams over the years. For me personally I can't charge a church to give back to God the gift which he has given me to bring glory to his name that name is Jesus!
I played in church half my life. Mostly unpaid. Glad to have learned in those circles, but have had better treatment in bars. You can't spend your life playing with bad players doing cover songs that are cheesy. The Lord is Heaven a) is not 3 people b) doesn't want you to waste your talent c) Praise" genres aren't drawing you closer to God
Can’t even make the doggone lemonade all I got is the doggone peel. Nun but bitterness🌚
A church musician must be also be christian, must be people who give his heart to Jesus convert christian, not just come to church play your music get pay and go home.😮
I would like to support and appreciate Terence for posting the video.
For some of you who commented that you don't expect any appreciation from church and that you lend free service to church. This Video is not for you !
This video is for talents who submitted and committed not only their lives but also their talents to the Lord and His service;
People who committed not only their lives but also their talents to the Lord and His service do not know any other job other than spending their God given talents in service to Church which is a specialised full-time work area, just like full-time pastors.
If you have some other financial stream as a living for you and your family, all good, nothing wrong about it, but your situation is completely different when compared to others who completely are set apart for the Lord and His service, so please make your comments in light of this reality rather than in a boastful way, telling others that you are working free for God, which do not make any sense because you are fully employed else where, where as people who commited their lifes to the service of the Lord are like little Samuels, whose life is for the service of the church and the church ought to look after their needs just like the pastors; David fully supported the full-time temple musicians in the OT.
Full-time Pastors = Full-time tech = Full-time musicians = Full-time anybody for Church are all equal in the sight of God and all of them have to be looked after by the church equally well. There is no big, small, or least in Church.
Remember, what our dear Lord Jesus said, "the First will be last and the least will be first".
Practically every clergy I have worked with think they are better than the musician. Musicians are called just like ministers. Musicians aren’t better than clergy and clergy aren’t better than musicians. Change thinking to reflect this perspective and the environment will change dramatically.
To be honest, I’m totally over it.
Hmmm. I hear words like corporate, money in this video. Isn't everything we do supposed to be for the glory of God? In recognition of what He has done for us and not what we do?
As a musician who grew up in church and played in church, I stopped playing because I wanted to be free of "Churchy" people and everything that goes with them...
First thing is first - Jesus never said "Go build buildings that cost millions of dollars and that requires a continuing flow of cash to function and maintain, then solely focus on growing that congregation "in my name" until you have to build bigger, rinse repeat until you've bought out a stadium." But... since that's the game that everyone decided to play, here we are.
The lead pastor doesn't get paid in Jesus bucks. The associate pastor doesn't get paid in Jesus bucks. The worship leader and administrative staff don't get paid in Jesus bucks. The guy who gets hired to fix the air conditioner when it breaks down does not get paid in Jesus bucks. So, outside of a very small, brand new church that has no choice but to rely on volunteerism, there is no excuse not to provide payment for the amount of work that it takes to keep and maintain a "church".
I'm not saying that it's every single church, but I can tell you that religion is weaponized in a way to make you feel like "I shouldn't ask or expect payment, because it's for Jesus." I can speak from experience, volunteering for several churches over the years... they do not care about you, the person. They care about what you can bring to the table to help them grow. Why do you think so many churches have some sort of slogan, like "Give God your time, talent and treasure!" It's like an MLM - you keep bringing people to the church so they can have a bigger and bigger talent pool of volunteers to pull from, so when people wise up and leave or get burned out, some other poor soul that's been indoctrinated can fill the gap.
I have found that typically, if you're the only person who can do [whatever thing is] then you are very valuable, and you can generally request monetization and you will get it. But, as soon as there is at least one more person, and especially if there are several, then your value plummets. You can leave and never come back without saying a word and you might get one to three calls or texts from people initially, then it's crickets. Like you were never even there.
I no longer buy into that lie. It's corruption in my opinion. You can't be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on making a concert-level sanctuary, then get your panties in a knot when someone wants to be paid for their time and talent.
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Churches want you to donate your talent and rehearse for no money. They just expect it? Pastors get paid so should the musiciAns? I quit going to church cause they want you to do work for the church with no pay.
I can tolerate not being paid, but when the worship leader is being paid a living wage just for picking out 4/5 songs for Sunday, and I'm getting nothing, that's when I call BS!!
I'd never want to go to a large "corporate" Hillsong type Charismatic church evef again, in my life.😢
Appreciated has nothing do do with anything! Those " church musicians " aren't playing music for GOD!! HE IS our great reward!! Quit serving GOD for you and start serving HIM!!
Wow. Zero references to Scripture to guide our thoughts here. This was all worldy wisdom, treating our call to lead the people of God in sung worship as just a job.
To all seeking man's appreciation, I'm sure you'll find it and be rewarded here on earth for it, but rest assured no further reward awaits (Matt 6:v5).
Yeah, it's this line of thinking that's the problem. Overly religious people think that EVERYTHING has to have some scriptural reference. We don't need a scripture to understand that appreciating and treating others fairly is important.
And it's always funny that the people who receive the abuse are told they are somehow wrong for speaking out about it.
How about you ask those churches and preachers and such who take musicians for granted, treat them badly, and don't appreciate them what scriptures they are using for reference to treat musicians that way...
@@TerenceFisher1thank you sir
I’m sorry but this doesn’t work. I’ve been playing in churches for free for 40 plus years. I’ve never been paid a dime and no one ever appreciated me. It’s worse now. I go to a mobile church and set up tear down every Sunday. I was even asked to tear down the drums when I didn’t even play drums that day. I was even told that they pay pros but that’s crazy that they don’t pay the faithful. I’m very discouraged.
Without really even needing to watch the video, I can tell you why musicians quit church. It’s because they stopped looking at it as ministry and considered it a job. When you understand the concept that it’s not about you and it’s about Him, it’s ministry. When you start considering it a job, it’s just like any other job, you can quit whenever you feel like it and move on.
As a former music pastor and as an ongoing member of a music team in a large church, I have to say that this is not always the case. It's easy for people to start saying this save this and to use it as a way to bash people who need to take a step back, but I have known plenty of Music ministers who push their people to the breaking point expecting to expecting them to do ridiculous amounts of work with little to no compensation or appreciation. Yes, most of us are volunteers, but the apostles also said that a Workman is worth his hire.
I'd love to see 90% of church musicians quit. The western church worships music, not God and its all entertainment. Go bact to the house church format with non professionals. Yes, have singing, but maybe just one guitar, not just sing acapella like Jesus at the last supper.
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Your their. For Jesus. To devote time to him...not self recognition. U play for Jesus not for others. Jesus. The son of heavenly father. Appericates. An enjoys. Hearing u play. N sing. It's not the ppl your their for...
are you guys making money playing at church?
I am one of the victims. Musicians are paid well and respected well in secular music industry.
First of all God doesn't need multi billion dollar churches for His Glory. All God wants is our humble hearts with reverence and submission. Church doesn't need paid musicians or Rock show lighting system, huge led displays, security guards for pastors, or billions of dollars of funds etc. Everyone should read about the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation. That's all God wanted. These multi billion dollar heavens are man made for himself, because God doesn't need any money. Poor musicians are one small part who would be victimized in the process.
Think about the reason why People are running away from Church. Many hillsong pastors are waving a goodbye to their faith, immorality seeping inside at every level. A church coming together to worship ,should worship God all together. It needs no worship leader or any millions of dollars of tech involved. But if a Church needs Tech and musicians, they should pay them with respect and they should honor them for their commitment to serving God. Even a gatekeeper in a Church is being honored in God's sight equivalent to the pastor. It's that everyone is doing their role.
Finally the assumption Church leaders creates in people minds that Church is house of God or temple of God is theologically a misleading concept. Biblically speaking Church is just you, me and we. It's people of God. Our bodies are the temple of God. You don't have to God to Church to see God or to party to God. You can don't anywhere. The best example is the pandemic time, where Church behaved like how they should according to the Word of God. People worshiped God on streets, in parking lots and at their homes. They broke bread from where they are physically. There was no use of tech, pastors didn't have to be paid. Pastors went for part time jobs to support their families (not the rich pastors though, many of them are stinking rich) now I stopped giving money to rich churches altogether. I will support pastors or believers who are in need, and not who are full already.
Its not just musicians, people are also leaving church these days. But yeas this is an important video for church musicians.
Let me know your thoughts.
Sorry but the only appreciation I need is the ALMIGHTY ONE.
Sounds like the church is not putting the kindness,humbleness,love of the lord before anything else.
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!😮💨
Lets look at it from a different standpoint...as a freelance sound engineer...I find the ones that are "quitting" (not all) aren't half as talented as they think they are. They might feel underappreciated or underpaid...but can I get a little or even a lot more talent/skill with that attitude...The bigger the church the bigger the diva in these type musicians. Guitarist/bass/ & keys have literally zero understanding of how to gainstage their own rig. Guitarist who can't play in tune, or a pedal board that's beyond noisy....or better yet..."do you have an 1/4" cable?" and they want to be more appreciated or better paid...Hard Pass!!! I get it if you are a "professional musician", but come preprared and act like a real professional. Most of these types (not all)who are quitting don't exhibit any trait of professionalism. Sorry but this cuts both ways. And yes the irony isn't lost on me being a sound guy...my profession has a crap ton of problem people too.
The ONLY reason to be a musician in church is to PRAISE GOD! To whine about not being appreciated is to put SELF FIRST, and its VANITY. This is not to say its ok not to appreciate musicians...they should be, but if their motivation is SELF, then the problem is THEM!
That's like saying, "I am a father who works hard and takes care of my family. And that's all that I'm concerned with. it. Doesn't matter if my family appreciates me for what I do." Sometimes, you people get too "churchy" with these answers, live in the real world.
i am so glad i don't play in church ..i cannot deal with the politics in churches........worst part is the fakeness i see ...i am real so i will hold back for anyone
Wait... some of you folks are getting paid to play at church???