On Collapse and Hope with Clare, Caroline and Naresh | Extinction Rebellion UK
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2020
- Platforming a dialogue between Clare Farrell and Caroline from Climate Psychology Alliance and Naresh from Transition Towns and Deep Adaptation around the themes of collapse and hope.**
There has been an interesting response in recent months to the proposal from the deep adaptation agenda, facing collapse and accepting loss. Extinction rebellion has challenged the perceived wisdom of the wider environmental movement and the third sector by accepting, supporting and communicating the emotional impact we feel when we fully accept the scale of risk, and the vast sense of loss present in these times due to the emergency in our biosphere.
We are often asked to choose between conversations on collapse, or a narrative rooted in the concept of hope. Here we aimed to show that both can be present, in a considered, generous and yet honest discussion. Refusing to allow hope and our complex reality to be pitted against one another as a binary choice might be an important stand to take if we are to fully prepare for our uncertain future.
[** NB: This XR Dialogue was recorded a few days before the start of the September 2020 Rebellion]
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Glad you mentioned the 'Where hope dies, action begins' slogan Clare. This was the thing which caused me to organise the first meeting of XR York, which Robin came to and presented the talk... but only half a dozen people showed up. A month later, two students held the same meeting and 60 came. For me, having no hope, and having gone through grief around the time Guy McPherson was doing his European Tour (I hosted him in York for a blinding lecture), has never meant giving up... it has meant continuing to fight for what I think is right, which is a habitable planet for whichever organisms survive us.
I like the slogan "Hope Less - Act More"
Humour is a great way to get people to live in the moment
Marvelous! An Adult Conversation. YES, we are walking into the Unknown.
Some of us are prepared, emotionally; most are not.
Human life is about learning and emotional growth, primarily. The popular belief seems to be about having fun and proving one's worth via material goods. Now that the world is unraveling,
who will have the strength of character to withstand the possibly HARSH FUTURE?
Its only recently that the illusion dropped for me and I realised the great peril all are in. Since then I've watched just about every video on climate change I can find. This one however has to be the most useful. It covers everything that I think most sane people would want to discuss. The extent of the current crisis, psychological advice such as not falling into either complete despair or unwarranted hope, all whilst being very inspiring overall. Will share this video from now on when ppl want more info. Thanks guys big 👍
Great conversation but a bit too hopeful for me. There is no way humans can reverse the changes in the arctic or cool down ocean temperatures. Even if we sequester carbon in sea grass. There's no harm in trying though. I know that the future is uncertain and we aren't supposed to despair, but I can't shift out of my doomer mentality. The only thing that makes sense to me is to build community gardens to have local food growing and so we can get to know our neighbors. Metta...
We have incarnated for one purpose: to embody love. What better time to demonstrate this than during a catastrophe?
@@michaelg1569 Love is the only answer.
@@elissayanover6369 as manifested in a community garden 💞
So, basically what's left is: 'trying" to runaway for a short time
Thank you.
Fear and resistence is in all of us. we all fear change which might mean loss of ourselves, our identity as we've known ourselves to be. An unknown future is here. Let's use the terminology of we/us. We still have our books, our paintings, our homes, our lifestyles, our food et al. Countries, indigenous peoples that haven't been overrun by the west (- hah! Where is that?!!) and Nature herself can lead us through this unknown terrain. - in community, we before I, simplicity, connected to Earth. Found Clare's contribution very real and engaging. Thank you
Thank you so much for this
We need to find & highlight the causes not just the symptoms of EVERYTHING...focus on what we're good at & bounce off eachothers energy & learn new skills & approaches...
This world is too deeply corrupted (minds and economy) to see and analyse our enormous problems with lucidity. I'm sorry... We've failed really bad. Now we're starting a new chapter called collapse. We have to accept it, because we did it, we voted for thiefs, we traveled everywhere, we bought piles of shit, we lost our time entertaining ourselves because we "deserve it". lol, people don't realize that we're already mentally ill since a very long time. What do we deserve besides suffering?
Excellent people for such a hard subject, perhaps the hardest of all. I found company listening to this. I wish more psychologists would get involved in helping society move though these times. Most of the ones I know are smugly clinging on to their status, undaring to join the same side as "a bunch of crusties". Meanwhile I'm left wondering if they really had any vocation at all.
I absolutely agree with you! My therapist dismisses my anxiety and concerns re climate crisis....
@@trishtaylor3652 do excuse my English but all I can say is f them... any therapist with such a conduct at this day and year... should ideally not be in practice. Ask them about Canada temperatures, Permafrost, Greenland melting, fires in California, dying birds and sixth mass extinction... oh that’s “not really a problem is it?” Well excuse me again but f them...
And if I’m so pissed off its because failure is made of lack of courage and for cowards outweighing the brave in the decission making game. Its hopeless to act as a coward now. Useless, selfish, hopeless. A total waste. I’m so pissed off because I know many many many therapists and in 2021 they are all pretty much the same: irresponsible cowards.
@@MistiClectiCisM Thanks! Most of them are inept!
Such a good talk. Thank you!!!!
We need to pivot to the end-game, get Roger back. Watch his video again.
Please can you support and help Julien Assange. If we want a better future you need to understand how important it is we stand by whistleblowers. You get more respect from people if you stand by the journalists who have been fighting against the system and trying to reveal the gruesome truth to people for years. Trust and solidarity is built from showing up for brave people who show the atrocity of Imperialism and addressing the structures such as the Military Industrial complex which our tax money goes into which our politicians and mainstream journalists deliberately lie about to keep us in a bubble. If you want support show your solidarity consistently with your values otherwise people will get bored of the liberal politeness when you don't show up for people and build mutual aid and trust with communities. Talking about psychology is great and the direct action you have done is good but you're missing the fact people in the West don't want to give up the things Capitalism has given them. Psychology wise you need to interact with the people you want to help and show them you're with the working class instead of begging power to do something. A lot of XR don't seem to understand the ruling class have so many resources to manipulate people into consenting to things that'll hurt them. The ruling class also have no moral conscience without Anti-Capitalism and helping vulnerable communities and connecting with people obviously people who have been conditioned to be apathetic and people who have faced oppression and have seen family die will ridicule you for this liberal mode of operating. Please rethink your strategies.
Love from Portland Antifa, Extinction Rebellion, DSA and Black Lives Matter!
MSM and BBC need to step up. A few fluffy pictures of orang-utans in burning forests isn’t enough. The same amount of time spent on this as on brexit and covid, ad nauseum, til people see the real threat
Media networks have done far more than you have given them.
People losing grip on reality and attacking the very sources of information that desperately try to educate us or influence our behavior, are the ones who have the biggest impacts next to billionaire asshole corporations that are literally finding new ways to destroy the planet faster. Our ice caps just melted and Shell is like 'wow what a great oppurtunity to get that oil we couldnt reach before..' and they are now legally allowed to drill there along with US national parks thanks to the orangutan in office.
#SaveTheSeagrass ☘☘
Everyone needs to get past all the gloom and doom and realize that the system humanity has been operating under is not serving the real needs of man. The system is unsustainable and services only a small hand of egoists that are driving us to collapse.
This collapse is necessary for humanities evolution. Humanity has to realize how the ways we have been living are all wrong and upside down and that non of our systems have a solution. We have to realize our own egoism and how we each take much more then we give and we each play a role in this coming collapse. We have to look for new solutions.
We need ppl to form intentional communities and begin to experiment in new ways of living that brings humanity back into relationship with nature, each other and with our Creator.
Only when we begin to see that it is US that have to change then we can stop blaming and expecting others to live up to values we have not bothered to live up to. The impulse for change has to come from within each of us. It can’t be forced from the outside or the ppl will just rebel. Just like the alcoholic has to see the need to change for themselves. Likewise we each are addicted to our egoism and our insatiable need for more and this pursuit of expansion. The epoch of the individual and individual rights is over. We must learn to work collectively in harmony with nature and each other or we will die alone.
I would suggest sociopathic illnesses that make people think, feel & behave cynical, paranoid, bourgeoisie & aspire to be rich or better off financially like the psychopaths in power...
The greatest progress we can achieve to help our environment is the development of LFTR Nuclear Reactors.
ENOUGH IS AS GOOD AS A FEAST
Has XR gone soft?
Mass non-violent civil disobedience can only achieve radical, revolutionary change if it is claimed by the working class, those people most threatened by the on going crises.
XR needs to find its roots.
The „working class“ are the last ones to get hold of the trickle down wealth that capitalism created. So they will be the last to let go off the old system. Middle class people are crucial. They are the cornerstone of activism. They can imagine to reduce their foot print. They don‘t depend on accumulation of capital. The middle of society harbours the core of possible solutions. It‘s not by chance that XR originated in middle class. Of course it should remain open to diversity, to everyone.
@Donald McCarthy No answers to be found in Parliament , only on the streets.
Exactly. And to get the critical numbers on the streets we need working people. Parliament, the electoral system is all nonsense.
Totally agree with your last point.I’m still talking to people who don’t like “ the look “ of turbines ! As for “doughnut economics “.....forget it ! Be warned,we have a generation of children who neither sit watching TV with their parents,neither have they grown up with Attenborough.
This is boring ! Look at the viewing figures !
I think the greatest hope is that Soul is eternal and life continues after death of the body. We are soul having a physical experience in our bodies not physical bodies that have a soul.
A Rabbi on the BBC religious show this morning . . . "I go on Extinction Rebellion, marches, although I don't agree with much of what they advocate. . . I've just bought an electric car though"
At least his ego is driving him in the right direction.
I joined XR, not because I think it will make a difference, but rather because it's much better than doing nothing at all. It's also nice to hang out with people who don't have their heads buried in the sand.
climatepsychologyalliance has some interesting upcoming events.
This collapse may rival the late Bronze Age collapse.
@Donald McCarthy lol what could have possibly prompted such a blind insulting attack on a mere observable prediction of collapse?
We could be the cure if we had the guts, that is, the courage to recognize and accept our ecocidal human condition, which is: our madness and stupidity that is leading the world to the global ecological disaster.
--podríamos ser la cura si tuviéramos las agallas, es decir el coraje para reconocer y aceptar nuestra condición humana ecocida, es decir: nuestra demencia y estupidez que está conduciendo al mundo al desastre ecológico global.
If "collapse" happens, what about maintenance of all the nuclear power stations???
Eventually, they will all BLOW. No one will maintain them in a crisis. Would you?
@@kirstinstrand6292 except, of course, the ones that get decommissioned and shut down or have their initial building permits successfully challenged. The abandonment of nuclear plants is preceded by a lengthy time frame and high cost - which might be inventoried and estimated by officially qualified engineering management. This is a transition to responsible planning despite the prevalent denials and absence of realistic hope. Currently the aging plants operating permits have been glibly renewed for some arbitrary multiple of the original permit duration. These "stranded assets" should not look to ratepayer or taxpayer rescue as they get shut down like Oyster Creek, for instance.
The business model for an aging nuclear power plant might be to reduce the output to some v small percentage of the design capacity and to instead put major efforts into the profitable storage of waste from other nuclear plants. Sometimes at or near sealevel. As the utility or the facility approaches bankruptcy the clever escape involves getting the local municipality, county, state, ratepayers, etc to absorb the insurance, safety and other expenses. By default. What a negotiation.
@@roberthayes2027 it takes about 50 years to safely decommission a plant. What are the estimates for sea level rise over that period?!
@@dunk_law pretty likely.
Human activities that do not have an ecocidal orientation are counted on the fingers.
Most of the things that humans do, in one way or another, harm the environment (water, air or soil) or biodiversity (or other human beings).
A serious attempt at reconciliation with the environment and with biodiversity, that is, with Mother Nature is not a bad idea, for our own good, but we would have to put aside our exacerbated human role in Nature (insane and stupid), our megalomania, our pride, our selfishness and our capitalist greed.
Son contadas con los dedos las actividades humanas que no tienen una orientación ecocida.
La mayor parte de las cosas que hacemos los humanos, de un modo u otro dañan al medio ambiente (al agua, al aire o al suelo) o a la biodiversidad (o a otros seres humanos).
Un intento serio de reconciliación con el medio ambiente y con la biodiversidad, es decir con la madre Naturaleza no es mala idea, por nuestro propio bien, pero
tendríamos que hacer a un lado nuestra exacerbado protagonismo humano en la Naturaleza (demencial y estúpido) nuestra megalomania, nuestra soberbia, nuestro egoísmo y nuestra codicia capitalista.
Por favor firma (y comparte) esta petición a la UNESCO para poder establecer el 'DÍA MUNDIAL PARA PEDIR PERDÓN A LA MADRE NATURALEZA', 'WORLD DAY TO ASK FORGIVENESS TO MOTHER NATURE'.
www.change.org/p/world-day-to-ask-forgiveness-to-mother-nature?use_react=false
"We are making ourselves sick by making our planet (mother nature) sick"
--Nos estamos enfermando al enfermar a nuestro planeta (a la madre naturaleza)" Dr. Peter Deizak
“The future still looks good and you've got time to rectify all the things that you should”
--El futuro todavía se ve bonito, y tú todavía tienes tiempo para rectificar todas las cosas que deberías,
George Harrison
"Cuanta mayor es la destrucción de biodiversidad más riesgo de epidemias, porque altera las cadenas
ecológicas y tróficas, y reduce el control natural establecido por la propia naturaleza"
Juan Carlos del Olmo, Secretario del WWF (World Wild Fund), España
"Una de las primeras condiciones de la felicidad es que el vínculo entre el hombre y la Naturaleza no se rompa"
León Tolstói
1) WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD -LOUIS ARMSTRONG-
th-cam.com/video/_h-KeHLnEzs/w-d-xo.html
2) HERMOSA VERSIÓN DE DAVID ATTENBOROUGH
facebook.com/UneteAlPlaneta.Comunicacion/videos/1708420289420553/UzpfSTE3MDQyMzU3OTMxNzIzMzY6Vks6MTcwODQyMDI4OTQyMDU1Mw/
3) “EL CAPITALISMO, EL CONSUMISMO, EL NEOLIBERALISMO Y EL CRECIMIENTO ECONÓMICO (‘AD INFINITUM’): LA MEJOR RECETA PARA LA CATÁSTROFE ECOLÓGICA Y SOCIAL”
GEORGE MONBIOT
th-cam.com/video/t-cP1prsBIo/w-d-xo.html&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3AqNRgkGHojr66VY6BLHDWj2P-MKP7KOngZIS8I2CvoRDYXpuIpEpnLEM
4) “EL CAPITALISMO, EL CONSUMISMO, EL NEOLIBERALISMO Y EL CRECIMIENTO ECONÓMICO (‘AD INFINITUM’): LA MEJOR RECETA PARA LA CATÁSTROFE ECOLÓGICA Y SOCIAL”
GEORGE MONBIOT
th-cam.com/video/t-cP1prsBIo/w-d-xo.html&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3AqNRgkGHojr66VY6BLHDWj2P-MKP7KOngZIS8I2CvoRDYXpuIpEpnLEM
5) GRETA THUNBERG AND GEORGE MONBIOT: PROTECT, RESTORE AND FUND
th-cam.com/video/-Q0xUXo2zEY/w-d-xo.html
6) LA ENCÍCLICA ECOLÓGICA PAPAL: LAUDATO SI
www.vatican.va/content/francesco/es/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html
"It is a wonderful planet with all the beautiful species out there. I just wish all people were peaceful, no wars and respectful of our environment and then it would be a WONDERFUL WORLD!!!"
Kathy Rizz
--"Es un planeta maravilloso con todas las hermosas especies que existen. Solo deseo que todas las personas sean pacíficas, sin guerras y respetuosas con nuestro medio ambiente, y entonces será un MUNDO MARAVILLOSO".
At 80 seen us lose 90% of the wild places wild birds, creatures & fish in my lifetime with masses of pollution along with rising sea levels noticeable in Dawlish where I spent my childhood. Do my best by walking or taking public transport never flying nor eating meat buying clothes from charity shops getting my power off Ecotricity keeping warm via thermal underwear & clothing etc, etc. There are massive problems with the materials for green technology--see Peter Zeihan. (Also the technology is not there yet if developing.) Far as I can see the one way out is via Nuclear Power as Mr Lovelock points out. If they had been inspected regularly no Nuclear Power accidents ever. Deaths & harms from fossil fuels are hundreds of thousands of time greater than any from Nuclear. Another recent possibility are developments in Geothermal energy. See Eavor & their development of this with deep radiator structures to put that alongside Fusion energy that burns through earth & rock at one tenth/twentieth of the cost of drilling. New windmills the Norwegians have put out into the sea hold some hope. I support 7 wild life environmental charities plus Amnesty on a modest pension. Because of failing health no longer able to march or protest except by email & letter & conversation.
So what do you want me to do?
Adapt.
@@itspeekaboo I have. But a set of guidelines to head towards is more intuitive than people's emotions on a subject.
@@pietkaify
Your comment regarding "emotions on a subject." if we reach the likely temperatures we are currently headed for, then emotions on this subject will be the prime driver of everyday life.
@@itspeekaboo forgive me tha amount of content splayed out before me from this one channel doesn't give me much direction. I am self employed so I trade under my name which rules out protest. I want a definitive guide as to where to aim my actions. I have cut away aspects of consumerism. Packagin, diet and sourcing sustainable products. I've Flushed 100m3 of rainwater down my loo. Generated 70% of my electrical needs on second life lithium cells destined for the recycler.
But no one video or live stream has told me the one that is doing what I should be ultimately aiming for. I'm not for the soppy bollox.
@@pietkaify
"But no one video or live stream has told me the one that is doing what I should be ultimately aiming for. I'm not for the soppy bollox."
By your full comment it looks like you are already doing many things, however regarding thee above proportion the more like-minded people linked together with a "set of guidelines to head towards" would be a sensible direction to head towards, if temperatures are not stabilized, would you not agree?
How can these voices be the best voices to communicate the critically important message? Is there no one else who can communicate effectively?
Well when very famous people speak about the coming impacts of climate change, I would say people take more notice, however the message is always the same, a further 3 C + will have daunting impacts.
@@itspeekaboo So, by that logic, it's ok to promote voices that don't imspire because more people will listen to their uninspiring message. We need people to be inspired!
@@bodhispears6609 Clare probably knows more about this than most. Really impressed by her at a talk previously.
@@bodhispears6609
"So, by that logic, it's ok to promote voices that don't imspire because more people will listen to their uninspiring message. We need people to be inspired!"
I actually agree with you, those in the public eye and scientists should have been speaking out for decades about the coming impacts of climate change?................ However, tell me I am curious what do you want to be inspired to do.?
The simple answer is no; these people are adults, who have genuine empathy and compsssion. Not everyone has these human characteristics.
Try mentioning to your friends that we should all fly less. Like, stop taking vacations. Most people are not ready for that conversation.
Can we do another hunger strike, I all in for doing that 100%
You are wrong about powelessness. Social movements come from the bottom where people are most powerless and oppressed - pro active allies, yes - but that top down view is wrong
Yeah, Caroline you repeat the word 'wisdom' a lot, obviously a word you like as do 'I'. Their is a difference between the word 'wisdom' & the word 'knowledge' which people should understand.the owl 🦉 understands the difference,which is why the🦉is nature's symbol 4wisdom🌞
Sorry, but this politically correct discourses and trying to feel better by hopeful words is not enough. Things are Terrible and things will become a lot worst . That's it, sleep on it and overnight just take action. We have no idea how bad this will get..if you ask me what to do...I d say leave, leave the city, the status quo, society, the system..LEAVE AND REBEL.
each according to their ability, each according to their need. Simple language is to be preferred to this pontificating style
It's too middle class. Plain English please, not psychobabble
Hope is lame
Here's how I'm thinking around collapse: CONTRACEPTION. Stress R Us