I hate that scene where it was so clear that Abby was manipulating her. No adult should CRY and tell a CHILD that they hurt their feelings because of them obeying their parent. No adult should try to get a child to go behind their mother's back.
I always hated that Abby had that convo with her. She was a little girl who had to listen to her mother. Abby was acting like they were equals and Maddie betrayed her. She should have been angry with Melissa directly.
@@MadisonHarlow I remember on one of the reunion shows, how Maddie herself had said that she found it uncomfortable and inappropriate for Abby to be speaking to her as an adult--as I recall, Maddie said something to the effect of "I'm nine years old and have to follow my mom's rules."
Sia is definitely grooming Maddie. Even if it’s not sexual, she’s grooming her to be codependent. Snuggling, living together, suggesting adoption, shutting down her other projects, continuing to make projects to keep Maddie at her side. This will come out years later and we will all wonder how it got so far
Totally agree with you. I feel like in a few years Maddie will distance herself from sia like she did with Abby. The relationships are very similar but on different sides if you know what I mean.
@Macarou exactly. Like it may not be sexual but it’s definitely up there with manipulation. What catches my eye is shutting down other projects and making ones for her. That shows a sense of obsession. And that’s actual cult persuasion tactics to bring people in. You give them everything they could want but shut down things on the outside to keep them dependent
This is actually the most ridiculous thing I have read on the internet today..leave the young girl alone..you are bullying a teenager and you should all be ashamed of yourselves
@@biancapranic772 you say im bullying a teenager when I don't talk bad about her once. I mentioned sia's questionable behavior. nothing about maddie was said. so it sounds like you're really upset about something else.
@@ayshadean8432 how do you think this teenager feels about videos being made of her and comments regarding her friendships. Its ridiculous you don't actually see the damage this stiff does..would you like videos being made and put out for the world to see about your relationships? Consider just for a second how damaging these videos are and really what business is it of anyones?
Isn't anyone concerned by the fact that this underage girl keeps being surrounded by OLDER women who all seem obsessed with her? I think her mother has failed her because she's the one who's allowed all of this. I would never allow my child to get so close and intimate with an adult, be it a man or woman.
I'm just trying to figure out what exactly is drawing these adult women to this very young lady? She's beautiful, she can dance, she has a great personality, but there's gotta be more to it, because it continues to be her in these weird situations with adult women. Very off.
@@yellurbandana It's super weird. I'm 29 and there's no way I could imagine becoming besties with an 11 year old and having this kind of relationship unless it was literal family. And even then, probably not.
@@yellurbandana Because she tries to please everyone and doesn't show emotions that would make said people feel bad. That's the key. They hone in on the fact that she's willing to become whoever they need her to be and latch on.
I mean how tf do you all know what she is going through.... You think you know about everything in her life? What her relationships are like? You think you know everything because of some info on the internet? Just live your own life and stop making idiotic conclusions about people just by watching interviews and shows on the damn internet. EDIT: I get the dance moms issue but my point is mostly about people hating on her relationshio with Sia
@@narajayde520 dont even know what maddie does besides the music videos I've seen of Sia LMAO. Its just unfair to meddle in another's life without knowing shit about their irl issues
@@narajayde520 I actually feel like Maddie stans are the ones who are more concerned for her - like the ones who are standing up for her against Sia and Abby and saying that she’s wasting her potential and needs to move on to better things.
i think saying that sia has a savior complex is kinda accurate. it’s really just kinda weird how she PUBLICLY brags about how she saw signs of ptsd in maddie and how she might need a therapist and all that. plus with all the lavish gifts and constantly spending time together, it’s almost like she’s grooming maddie.
Also, she adopted two black teenagers, which would on its own, be great, but really doesn’t help with the whole saviour complex thing. The way she spoke about them on an Aussie news show was kind of uncomfortable. I got huge white saviour vibes from it
I've always thought that this was very strange. If this was anyone else sharing their daughters with other adults, people would be flipping out but it's Maddie so apparently it's not an issue...
I am a mother and I would never share MY DAUGHTER with strangers, no matter how sweet they could be with my baby. I think we as parents need to set boundaries, sleeping with another grown up woman, Abbey forcing a kiss, come on! I don't understand how her real mother is so chill with all of this!
Maybe that's why Maddie is also drawn to them cause her mum maybe doesn't try to stop it so maybe she trys so find a better mother figure idk I'm just guessing but how Maddie is is going to affect her big time in relationships of all kinds and that is not good for her
i think the thing that bothers me about sia is she said she recognised all the girls were being abused but as far as we know only made moves to protect maddie???
I wish this was a bigger topic of discussion. The other girls suffered similar abuse but no one came to their rescue. The amount of mental health issues most of the girls probably developed being yelled at and torn down by their teacher/mentor in front of the American audience is not something that should be ignored. I hope the best all of them. Especially Nia who seemed not just a victim of Abby’s child abuse, but also racism.
@@katalina7826 thank you for adding to that dialogue! i mean let’s be real children like paige and chloe showed signs of intensive trauma (i’m not gonna call it PTSD i’m not a therapist. @ sia) long before maddie did. not to say maddie had it good, i’m not gonna be one of those people. the adults in her life abused her but it manifested itself in a very, very different way. and i’m gonna be that person and in part blame people like sia. because she played favourites maddie is still dancing, most of the other girls aren’t AND have intensive mental health to deal w i imagine
I feel like it had more to do with the idea that Maddie was the only one who was already groomed by Abby. Abby already manipulated that poor child into thinking that the only way to be happy and successful is to kiss up to and obey elder women. Abby tried to isolated Maddie from her friends and even her own sister and mom. Abby groomed Maddie into thinking that she was the only one who cared and that she should put her own needs and comforts second. Like, there were SO MANY times where it was obvious that Maddie was uncomfortable with Abby showing her off - like when she didn’t volunteer to take Paige’s solo and sounded like she was about to cry when Abby pressured her into taking it, and when she bit her nails and looked down when Abby flaunted her crowns. Yet Abby taught her that her own concerns and needs came second so Maddie couldn’t speak up. Sia did the same thing. Many of her ideas were controversial - like Maddie playing as a depressed person, her dancing with an older man, and mostly, her being in an ableist movie. But she picked Maddie knowing that Abby airway trained the poor girl into thinking that her needs came second - hence why Maddie was still pressured into Music even after she cried on set.
Yeah I mean on dance moms Maddie was the favourite of Abby's, so what treatment did the none favourite children get? If Sia really felt sorry for the girls on the show, she would have supported all of them. If Sia's motivation was purely selfless she would have focused on developing Maddie as an individual, encouraging different interests, making friends of hernown age etc. Where as Sia decided to take from this abused child, forming a co-dependent relationship, while monopolizing her time.
@@NotAnotherKuromi i think you and the previous commenter were 100% on the money. my initial thoughts about sia was she just bought into the fabricated storyline. because i know when she was first asked “why maddie?” she said something along the lines of “the other girls are beautiful and talented but maddie is the best. she draws people in with her dancing”. so i think it’s interesting she’s pulling this saviour complex bullshit now. she did nothing to give that girl a normal life. she’s obsessed with her and kept the grooming going. and the truly sad thing is it’ll probably take maddie multiple years to see it
The snuggling is weird. And I couldn’t really articulate why it is weird until I recognized that their relationship started as professional. Sia writes Maddie a pay check.
@@秋彦月島 actually no that is normal for girls, and since Sia is officially her guardian which means of her parents died Sia becomes her mother its completely normal. Depending on background and culture this is very normal to sit down and give someone a hug. And since Sia is like a parental figure to her she hugs maddie like its her daughter.
@blue chimera sleepovers mean anything from same bed, or someone on the coucg while yoir in the bed, or seperate rooms, or one person on the floor and one person on the bed. And snuggling means anything from actual cuddling to resting a head on a shoulder, wrapping an arm around a shoulder, both sitting on the couch watching a movie snuggled up in blanket earing popcorn. Literally the word sleepover and snuggles is so vague . So its important to not make a judgment without information. At 12 I had a 24 year old friend who hung out with me, and when I was 16 I had a 31 year old who was like a sister who would stay the night in a seperate room which we called sleepovers. And we would watch movies and she would rest her head on my shoulder which others would say snuggling, but it was just someone like a older sister hanging out. So until we know what snuggle is as in Australia the word is used for everything and sleepover means everything aswell not to mention we are very tactile, less emotional but more tactile. So until theres a direct fact on specifics on what snuggle and sleepover means , its best to not go straight to the worst thought possible. In Australia I find even our celebrities are super tactile regardless of fame, one of my faves will give long hugs and kiss her fans all over the face and hold hands likee a couple but shes just super tactile. But like I said myself and I know many others who have older friends who are like family , we have sleep overs, which can mean staying the night in the spare room, and we dont know if the parent is there. And since "snuggle" has multiple innocent meanings non of us know until either Sia or Maddie explain it. 🙂
The paycheck part is pretty key. I think people maybe focus too much on the physical contact stuff or the age difference, when it's power dynamics you need to be aware of and emotional and psychological abuse you really ought to be on the lookout for (and that usually precedes or accompanies any physical or sexual abuse) because it is more damaging and has longer lasting effects (as research indicates). There's also the power dynamic of being rich and famous versus trying to get started in the same industry. Kids with Maddie's history (being on an exploitative show like Dance Moms) should get regular therapy for years after such an experience. It should be okay for people to take an active coparenting or supportive role in the lives of children (who are not their blood)... as long as it's healthful for the child and not because the child is getting paid to hang out with the adult. How could anyone ever parent effectively without a support network that will watch the kid when they need a break? Also it's just as easy for a blood relative to abuse you as it is for any other adult (sometimes easier for the blood-relative because of a sense of ownership/enmeshment associated with blood-relation). I support my nibling and their parents, which sometimes involves making suggestions about putting a boundary in place when a problematic behavior arises (instead of ignoring it until it's overwhelming and then overreacting). My nibling visits and sometimes sleeps over (mostly to give their parent a break/night alone), and they love to hug and cuddle while we read books together (which I'm sure they'll grow out of eventually). I also have a weird quasi-mentorship with a neighbor kid (a friend of my nibling) because he talks to me about his life and asks me questions (usually about social stuff) when I'm out riding my bike, working in the garden, or waiting to pick up my nibling after school. We're both autistic, so I try to explain social stuff in a way that's helpful (i.e. that I would have found helpful at his age). I get the feeling that he asks the same sort of questions to his parents or teachers, but their answers aren't really providing the info he needs (because they are allistic and aren't really understanding the question being asked and/or judge him for asking it). I don't think my relationships with these kids are in any way harmful to the kids just because I'm an adult and they are kids. I don't rely on them for anything, I enjoy and appreciate their existence/being, feel loving-kindness towards them, and I try to offer support when they ask for it, if I am able. Just saying that we shouldn't assume that amicable interaction and platonic consensual physical contact between an adult and child is intrinsically harmful, but we should also recognize that power dynamics can complicate the situation and patterns of emotional and psychological abuse (like what we see in Dance Moms and similar shows) definitely are. I think you do a good job of pointing out the key aspect that indicates a potentially problematic relationship: an on-going one-directional professional relationship compounded by additional power dynamics of: age difference, fame, and industry power.
Yeah, a muse definitely sort of implies something... inappropriate, at least for someone of Maddie’s age. The adult woman a painter paints from time to time is a muse. The little girl who has starred in a singer’s music video is not.
@@jasser1918 but that's one incident from a whole toxic relationship. That would be like taking one good part of lockdown and only concentrating on that one part.
@@-lilyy.anaa- Sia sees her as her daughter, she did rescue her from the possible clutches of a pedophile. Theres nothing wrong with a bond thats like a mother and daughter or sisters. Also everyone here is viewing it from social media point of view. When I was 15 I hung out with a friend all the time who was 31 , I saw her as my big sister. This is very normal for older women to take a younger girl under the wing and for and older man to take a young boy under his wing. If Sia was hanging out with no one else and only kids then yes that would be incredibly concerning like with Michael Jackson. Sia is now Maddies Guardian/Godmother and Sia has always wanted children so she naturally has this nurturing feel to her, sadly she cant have kids due to medical issues with her ovaries which is why she has adopted two sons. Young girls will naturally cling sometimes to an older female figure and same with boys. Sia saw the psychological damage and signs that maddie may get into dangerous things with the pressure her mother and dance teacher put on her, so she wanted to help her get out of that. If Sia has inappropriately touched her, spoken certain words about her body and only spent time with her then yes something is suss. But this to me is very normal. Litterally the same as having an older adoptive sister, and now that Sia is officially a guardian of maddies , if her parents pass away Sia will litterally be her mother so offcourse shes gonna be close to her. My family have been the victims of child abuse so we know the obvious signs. Litterally nothing stands out here as suss unless theres other info out their that I havent heard about.
@@-lilyy.anaa- @Lily Kaur I know it sucks reading something from the point of view of people who have been groomed by pedos and have had ptsd from war and guns to the head and who understand things not by getting their understanding from twitter or google or tic tok but by real life. But you are welcome non the less 😂
@@veronicaboholl definitely no reason to hate on maddie, i think bc she’s 18 now ppl dont realize she was 14 at the time of filming and contractually obligated to participate. she’s a victim
i don’t think Melissa purposely puts her kids in these situations though :( i just think she so desperately wants her kids to be happy that she just ignores stuff. being that they have a divorced household, i do know sometimes parents feel they have to be the “better” parent so their kids don’t leave, so it is possible Melissa is more lenient because she wants them to stay with her.
@@niaram she may not do it purposely but she sure as hell doesn't stop things when they cross a line. Like letting your 11 year old sleep over a 40 year old women's house once a week and calling them snuggling cute like I am sorry but that crosses so many lines I don't care how close Maddie and Sia may be that is wrong. Or letting her dance teacher kiss her on the lips or another women get a tattoo of her teeth.But then again I find most friendships between adults and children to be weird because why would someone who has no relation to you who is more than twice your age want to be friends with you? It's just weird imo 💖
This is disturbing. Also just found out they Sia had Madsie sleep in the same bed with her and they would "cuddle", when Maddie was 12 years old! We took Michael Jackson to court over stuff like that Where is the energy for Sia???
double standards oprah also said that she was having sleepovers and cuddling with girls from her school, and also having long phone call conversations with them i don't see her in handcuffs either
This makes me question Melissa more than anyone else. No woman should be a better mother to your child than you. (unless they adopted them a course) but otherwise you should be the best mom you can be and not “share” your daughter.
Wallflower you’re speaking nothing but facts. of course she allowed her racist behavior towards Asians. the two videos that were resurfacing were years apart, which means her racist gross behavior happened more than once, for years.
I feel like out of relationships Gianna is the only one who really understood that Maddis was a child, and was not dependent on her like Abby or sia and because of the fact she taught her dance all the time they grew what seems like a healthy working relationship
@@bluecritical7618 you can’t agree to anything when you’re under 18. Snuggling with someone else’s 12 year child is 100% inappropriate even if the child wants to because children can be easily manipulated and don’t always understand if something is weird.
in my opinion, having a tattoo of maddies teeth comes across as slightly unusual... i realise that she was insecure and it was meant to be a nice gesture, but why couldn’t she have tattooed like a positive quote or something instead? if someone did that to me (im also insecure about my teeth) it would make me uncomfortable. even someone that im really close with.
@@ailanouk oh hell no. I think it may be a culture difference since I’m Singaporean and we don’t show much physical affection but kissing a child on the lips!? To me, that’s unacceptable.
Guys, Sia sounds almost exactly like Michael Jackson having sleepovers with little boys. I don't know the nature of their relationship, but it's weird as hell.
he was watching movies with girls, boys, adults, and parents of those kids it wasn't just boys, but the media created the narrative that he had "sleepovers with little boys" to portray him as gay and a pedo do your own research instead of going of sound bites and calling it "weird as hell" when you don't know the nature of their relationship
@@honeydewstudios9861 He did sleep with them in the sense that the kids slept in his bed with him. But he grew up in a family that did that so he thought it was normal. He didn't molest or sexually abuse the kids.
not to forget that maddie BEGGED Sia to not be portraying the role in “music” bc she was afraid of the possible backlash and possibly offending people. she cried...
RoyaleFendi Harvey Weinstein was a well known producer in Hollywood. Recently many woman have come forward saying he abused his power and sexually assaulted them. It was a lot of women. He’s disgusting!!! Sia was right to keep Maddie off that plane!!
I think Sia makes sure she is with the right people so Maddie is protected from Hollywood. Every kid star that started young always comes out w sexual abuse claims. I think that is why Sia said she protects her. Since Maddie left Dance Moms, Abby hasn't been the same since. Abby thought she would have Maddie in her life forever. Maddie does have that something about her. She is beautiful and such a good dancer. Plus, she learns quick, and easy to work with. I am so happy Sia got her off that plane. Where were you Melissa? I dont understand the whole teeth tattoo though...kinda weird. Gianna is the only one that is super cool and was not weird like the others
Just the fact that there are 5 examples of older women having a personal relationship/infatuation/obsession with maddie is concerning in and of itself.
Neo Android yeah i agree, i think gia’s relationship with maddie was totally normal, she was like a big sister to her. but some of the other ones are just a little bit creepy.
the sad thing is, positive relationships with adults who aren't your parents shouldn't be inherently bad or suspicious, but there are a lot of weird red flags here, and the fact that she's a child actor/entertainer and being looked at as this muse/people feel some sense of belonging/ownership of her with all these adults is... weird. sia in particular feels like a very obsessive and not healthy relationship from what we've seen/heard publically.
For real. Though I do think Sia was kind of over obsessed with Maddie she really is the only good parent fugue (aside from her dad he tried to get her out of dance moms)
"It takes a whole village to raise a child".....remember that before you say things about melissa's parenting. But it's ok everyone has their own opinion
Everyone is talking about the fact that they were kind off obsessed with her . But can nobody talk about the fact that sia saved Maddie from getting on that plane with Harvey Weinstein . I don’t even wanna know what would happen if she did went .
maddie begging not to do music but sia forcing her to because she refuses to do a project without her is so weird. she has such a savior complex and it should be called out sm more.
I feel like Gia had the only normal relationship with her. The rest to me and creepy and borderline toxic. I’m 24 I can’t imagine calling someone who like 12 my daughter or get a tattoo of their teeth or even sleep in the same bed as the sorry but it’s weird
I think the thing that makes Gia and Maddies relation ship normal is mostly that it isn't 'mother/daughter' but 'sister/sister'. like all the others are weird for other reasons too, but that stood out to me.
My youngest girl cousin and I are 13 years apart. Her mom used to nickname her “my child” as a baby when things like diaper changings came. When I lived with them during part of my college years I actually was in charge of raising her at times to the point I’d joke about being her “part-time mom”. Yes I still consider her to be almost like a daughter to me at times. Especially when her mom does something stupid
I think Maddie is quite mature and she probably finds it easy to be friends with adults. This could be because Abby kind of isolated her from her friends and Maddie grew up being so close to adults
Eh as an adult, I'd never call a child my friend, or even want to be friends with a child, it's not healthy and just weird. I've mentored kids in structured programs like big brothers/big sisters, but a child is not an adult even if you think that child is "mature". I don't think a healthy adult would call a child a friend
(This is actually quite disturbing if you think about how child grooming involves isolating them from other children, calling them “mature beyond their years”, so the child looks to adults for friendship, which gives adults ample opportunity to take advantage of her.)
I’ve got the same kind of situation, I call it ‘Mommy Issues’. Basically, I’ve been forced to grow up way too fast and have been repeatedly called ‘mature for my age’. This desire to please and impress adults so that I can be called mature for my age has really distanced me from my childhood- much like what Maddie would have gone through, except hers was on a larger scale as she had millions of eyes on her and didn’t want people to think she was spoilt or rude. I honestly feel sorry for her, no kid deserves to be put through that.
Her relationships with Sia and Tonya seem particularly odd to me. It’s almost like these older women are trying to relive their teenage years through her. I mean, what 40+ year old has sleepovers and cuddles in bed with a 17-year-old? It’s weird. I think what it comes down to is that Maddie has a deep need for approval from adults in her life, which causes her to latch onto adults that give her that validation. At the same time, those adults become obsessed with her as they are trying to live vicariously through her. The result is a weird, sometimes creepy dynamic in the relationships. We saw it happen with Abby on the show. Now that Abby’s out of her life, she’s created similar relationships with other adults because that’s all she knows. Granted, Sia and Tonya don’t seem to be nearly as toxic as Abby was, so I guess that’s an improvement. However, I do think it would greatly benefit Maddie (and Mackenzie) if Melissa would step up to the plate a little bit more instead of being content with “sharing” her daughters with other women.
I got goosebumps from the creep vibes from Sia back in Chandelier days. I can’t wait for Maddie to break away from Sia just like she did Abby. Maddie’s clearly a strong girl & she’s got enough money success and talent to not need “protecting” anymore. Sia is the one who comes across as being troubled and traumatised. Sia has battled addiction, PTSD, eating disorder, self harm etc. it’s like Maddie is her emotional crutch and lets her live out her saviour fantasy
if you get ‘creep vibes ‘ from watching chandelier that’s kind of sad if u don’t understand the whole deeper meaning to it you seem old enough to write a whole paragraph but u don’t seem old enough to write a whole paragraph about maddie breaking away from Sia lol
@@slowzzz.9052 just because somebody feels uncomfortable with such a dark ambiance as chandelier does not mean he lacks depth.if anything the person has too much of it because they can recognize how Truly dark and twisted that universe is While people like you crave sooo much to appear deep and intellectual that sadness is the only thing that excites you. Keep feeling so strong and you will end up like your idols Engulfed in Human misery and self destructive spirit You think ur intelligent because of your ability to be emotional. You are in for a wild ride.
The sad thing is, is that in season 1, Maddie's dad was there in one episode and said that dance ruined his family and that he was gonna do everything he could to make sure Maddie wouldnt dance with Abby after that season. He probably saw all of this coming and it would have been better if Maddie did leave Abby. Maybe not for her career but for her mental health. And since then, i havent seen anything about Maddie and Mackenzie's dad. I wonder why. That would be interesting to find out where their dad is and what he thinks about all of this.
Her dad still probably sees them just not on the show. This was probably a drama bit and also Melissa is in charge if Kurt should see Maddie and Mackenzie. So she might of said she doesn't .
That scene where she told her to disobey her mum was peak emotional manipulation. Absolutely disgusted watching that play out. Tbh, it wouldn't be a bad idea for all of the girls from the ALDC to do some form of therapy.
There was also a scene where it was revealed that Abby told Maddie that nobody was happy for her and that everyone was jealous of her. Who says that to anyone, much less a little girl? 😭
He’s a celebrity who has been accused of many sexual harassment crimes so he’d probably Sexually abuse her maybe and Maddie’s still legally a minor (I think)
I just feel bad for Maddie's sister. Imagine being stuck with a sibling who has the same hobby/carreer as you, but they always are treated as 'superior' in a way. Idk what I'm trying to say, i just think it must make her sister feel unworthy in some way, which is really sad.
I don’t think that’s true anymore. Maddie’s more of a dancer now, while Kenzie stuck to singing. Nowadays, people in the fandom appreciate both. Also, it’s definitely better for Kenzie not to get stuck in this as well.
@@leahrachelle. Yep! Don’t get me wrong, Kenzie does occasionally dance sometimes, but she’s releasing more singing albums. Meanwhile, Maddie is still dancing with Sia and acting in her movies.
i think thankfully kenzie went off to separate herself from her sister. on the show though, kenzie was always told she needed to be like her sister and her own mom +abby encouraged that instead of letting kenzie be her own person. im glad kenzie was able to separate herself though
Eh, later on, it'll be kenzie with the booming career because she didnt become infamous. She'll still be interesting, whereas once the drama dies down, not as many people will care. Its sad for maddie but thats my prediction..
What’s the most concerning for me was that Melissa was a actually going to let Maddie get on the plane with Harvey and sis had to step in to tell her that it was unsafe. If her own mother would let her get into that situation to get ahead in her career, what makes you think that she wouldn’t risk her daughter’s lives to get to a higher level of fame?
I feel like Sia only acts like a “second mom” because she saw how abusive the show was. And we all know that Melissa wasn’t the best. Or at least that’s what we saw on the show. She could have been a great mom irl. So I think sia took her out of the environment and started to protect her from more abusive opportunities. Slowly she became the loving parent that Maddie never had. I do believe it is grooming Maddie to rely on her. She took a vulnerable 11 year old and gave her everything. This is even more concerning when you realize that sia said Maddie had PTSD from her DM experience.
But cuddling in bed together is a little weird that’s like taking it to a whole mother level and the same for getting a kids teeth tattooed on u like that’s just not normal unless you’re related
Ann __ that’s different when it’s a job lol but to spend the night with any adult just because is weird..and for Maddie to say she’d rather live with sia rather than Her actual mom is even weirder
this didn’t age well with sia’s new movie coming out! maddie had cried back during their filming, because she didn’t want to people to think she was mocking autistic people. and sia told her that she “wouldn’t let them”. maddie is on contract with sia so she can’t speak on the topic at all but she likely doesn’t support the ableism involved in sia’s approach to the whole situation and it’s really sad. i hope that now as maddie becomes an adult she’s able to set boundaries for herself and decide what behaviours she’ll tolerate with the people she works with.
@@damianasuzette483 i don’t know the details of her contract but if she’s been gaslighted by sia then she probably wouldn’t want to loose their relationship. she also has a lot at stake if she came out publicly about not supporting sia’s decisions with the movie.
The relationship with gianna Martello isn’t odd because when you do dance every day , you will see your dance teacher a lot so gradually they become your second mum or your best friend
Plus, Maddie and Gianna both grew up at the same studio. Maddie probably began lessons around the time Gianna was in her late teens, so it makes sense that a sisterly bond formed between them.
Yenelly no, it’s not, especially when describing the relationship between the two. Gianna strictly seemed like she had a teacher/mentor relationship with not only Maddie, but all the other girls. Sia and the others seems to have a more complex relationship with Maddie and Maddie specifically. I’m not taking sides on who’s right and who’s wrong, but I think the relationship between Gianna and Maddie are different between the other adults and Maddie.
Mai Nguyen Yes, I agree. Gianna said that she thought as Maddie as her sister which isn’t weird because they grew up in the dance studio together. Sia and Maddie seem to have more of a mother daughter relationship which is a little strange.
@@melodiclogic9904 Yeah. I think most prominent people in hollywood probably know about cases of child abuse that the public hasnt been made aware of yet.
@@jellopackets3770 which is so messed up. it reminds me (obviously on a much, much, much, lesser scale) of when ellen was exposed on twitter for being mean to people and someone said “y’all are all finding this out now? everyone in LA knows about how shitty ellen is in person for years...” i’m not one of those people that are like “hollywood is corrupt! we need to kill everyone and have a california cleansing!” but seriously the fbi needs to work a little harder when investigating these people
@@melodiclogic9904 Def. I hate that weirdo conspiracy theorists have started trying to make concern about pedophilia and abuse in hollywood their thing. People told jokes on stage about weinstein being gross YEARS before he got found out, like obviously child abusers are going to go into an industry where they can have enough power to make people do whatever they want and have access to a never ending supply chain of vulnerable women and children. We need to stop concern about child actors from becoming a conspiracy theorist topic that everyones scared to talk about because they'll sound like a qanon supporter.
Yeah, if that ever even happened. Sia's overacting on the savior gig. Edit; One look at Weinstein's mug and you know he's a dead-eyed, vicious pervert , so I'm not doubting that. But I don't believe Sia protected Maddie from him because protecting someone doesn't usually involve constructing a narrative of helplessness via blabbing that person's so called vulnerabilities and deeply personal struggles to the whole world. That's what someone who wants to chum the waters does. Regardless, it's all dysfunctional as hell and really disturbing.
It is certainly concerning how if these women were replaced with men it’d be perceived as weird and pedophilic. However, the most concerning of this for me is that Maddie might not noticed if she were to be groomed. She’s been trained her whole childhood to chase validation from female figures, so if someone was it would worrying because she may only see validation and acceptance. I hope she stays safe from people like that.
A proper role model would build her up, and make her confident in herself. They'd let her speak up for herself, not control her life and teaching her to be co-dependent.
The least creepy one and definitely the most normal is Maddie and Gianna’s relationship it’s normal to feel like someone you’ve known for years as a younger sister but not daughter
Yeah, I feel like her relationship with Gianna is pretty normal, but it's sad that there's only one person that we've publicly seen have a normal and healthy relationship with her.
Listen, I'm all for Sia preventing Maddie from getting on a plane with Harvey Weinstein. God knows what he could have done. But all the other stuff feels like grooming.
Another thing. It seems to me (im not a licensed psychologist, just a very self aware traumatized person) that Sia wasn't keeping Maddie off of the plane for her *safety*, but for 2 different reasons A. So she would be praised for saving her because she's a *very clear* narcissist who only picked Maddie to 'save' and 'raise' (read: groom) because she was the star of the dance moms show, the Golden child, the sympathetic victim. B. Sia didn't want Weinstein to ruin her *progress* with Maddie. She's well aware that Maddie was made entirely too vulnerable by the past abuse she suffered, so if Weinstein got her, he'd be able to do unspeakable things and it would become harder for sia to get that close again. I suspect she's just waiting for Maddie to turn 18.
As I’m rewatching the seasons, Melissa did say she would do anything for her kids to get to the top. That’s very alarming and disturbing if you ask me.
"I share my daughters with her". God, Melissa, they are not objects, they are human beings! Things can be shared, people can't, because they don't belong to anyone.
Melissa has allowed all of these adults to come into her kids lives from such a young age and groom them, especially Maddie. On Dance Moms, Melissa took them out of school so that Maddie would have more time to be in the dance studio. She should’ve just let her kids be kids and encouraged them to build relationships with kids their own age instead of holding them to extreme standards to gain approval from older women.
YES. As I was watching this video I realized Maddie doesn't know any different, and I definitely believe what Sia said about Maddie having PTSD. I don't know if Maddie would be the same Maddie if she didn't always have an older figure she was looking up to. She bounces from one directly to another. Shame on Melissa for doing this to her kids.
Exactly and that's why I applaud Holly and Christi for letting there kids stay in school and do what made them happy and content until they were ready to go home school instead of being concerned about gaining approval from Abby.
maddie being homeschooled has nothing to do with her being unable to have friends her own age. homeschooling has absolutely no connection to anti social behavior or any negative peer relationship behavior. and have you forgotten she has her dance crew that are her friends to this day?
Everyone’s concerned with the ‘mother’ figures, I’m sitting here thinking how horrible Melissa must be as a mother to constantly be shoving her children into others arms so that she doesn’t have to be responsible
I agree that Melissa seems to be quite distant and careless but since Dance Moms is really heavily edited and people say she is actually really nice its hard to tell because she could be an amazing mom behind the scenes, but I guess we’ll never know.
I feel so bad for Lilliana. Imagine being a child who was given the opportunity to work with a famous person on a project (and also probably watched the success of Maddie who did the same thing) just to have your work, talent, and dedication ignored and unappreciated. Sia literally said after this that she never wanted to work with anyone else except Maddie which isn't subtle at all in regards to her feelings about Lilliana. Lilliana is so talented and I don't even understand how Sia could publicly say that. It's cruel and as someone with a similar career she should understand what words like that do to people, especially young children. That combined with the sleepovers and cuddles with Maddie does it for me. That's creepy as HELL...
LITERALLY. I dont think her problems should be publicized at ALL. BUT, if anyone were to talk about it, it should be Maddie herself. I think it was super odd that Sia went out of her way to get Maddie a "little therapist". That should be a discussion between Melissa and Maddie... not Sia.
I agree, it’s extremely inappropriate. No one should talk about another person’s health (physical or mental) period, much less publicly. It’s information that must be kept confidential.
Honestly only her relationship with Gia was healthy, they seem to be truly friends and see each other as SISTERS. Not as Parental and Child figures. When an adult is treating a child like that it’s honestly just gross. While it may not exactly be anything sexual. It’s still problematic and Maddie may have to limit her time and possible cut contact if things get worse once she’s a legal adult.
It’s definitely not unhealthy to have a parental figure in your life that isn’t your parents. It is, however, inappropriate to be cuddling in bed together. People keep saying it’s okay if you’re family. Even family members can be toxic!
Mackenzie was always trying to acquire these same things and seeking so much approval when everyone ignored her and went to Maddie for supposed “perfection”. The Ziegler kids have been through so much manipulation and sadness in their lives. This is just so sad.
To me, she’s always given off a vibe of being “innocent and needing to be protected,” as well as very mature and constantly seeking for acceptance and approval. Most children are either one way or the other - sweet and innocent but hard to connect with because they’re mentally still young (like they should be), or overly mature and skeptical with life and adults (like a lot of abused children). She is a natural people pleaser and would do anything to get people who she’s close to to like her. With Abby, she was easy to manipulate because she was small and wanted to please Abby. With Sia, she had a level of innocence from being a child, but she was also emotionally upset and mature because of her experiences with Abby. Elder women liked her because they could easily manipulate her and parade her around as their “little star” and Maddie should be too sweet to say anything about it, even if it impacted her own mental health. On top of that, she’s beautiful and talented - easy to show off.
Maddie is always in a good mood, works hard, polite, loves attention, always down for everything, very smart and talented.. the perfect daughter *And beautiful..
I feel like the only actual healthy relationship that isn't obsessive is with Gianna. She is the only one who didnt see her as a daughter, but as a little sister.
vicarious success? I know some women like to use younger girls to live out their fantasies of success and push said kids hard into hyperfeminine, sometimes oversexualized positions. My personal theory is that they want to use those young kids as a self-proxy and in doing so put those kids into overly-adult positions that they (the abusers) want to be in themselves. (not that men dont do smthn like that too, but for dif reasons imo)
You predicted the controversy about Sia's film! Sia's responses to this have been so inappropriate and I'm definitely starting to see her weird fixation on Maddie.
100% yes! Since this whole music controversy and her frankly gross and heartless responses, I started paying more attention to what sia has been saying and all of a sudden this whole “maddie is my muse” thing started to feel more than just uncomfortable.
This is alarming and creepy. Whether it’s out of jealousy or obsession or something more sinister, it’s still all very inappropriate. Sometimes when young people have extreme talent, older artists swarm like vultures and try to control every aspect of their career. Mentorship can be good but this seems downright controlling
@blue chimera the bond with Maddie is probably stronger since she saw and helped Maddie grow, and since the media wants more to know about that relationship, she refers to that more
Maddies quote: “But Tonya was very specific about how she loved my teeth so much.” ...That is WEIRD, people! And this grown woman is now walking around with a very visible tattoo of a child’s teeth on her arm. I get that Maddie might feel a connection with these women but I think that it’s weird how obsessed they are with a teenage girl they’re not related to. I hope it doesn’t end up hindering Maddie’s career down the road.
I can already imagine Sia manipulating Maddie by playing the savior, like: "you should be grateful, I saved you from Abby and I made you a superstar". Maddie shines by her own light and I really hope she's aware of it. Also, this awkwardly reminds me 'The Neon Demon' movie. Everyone was obsessed with the girl...
I wonder is Maddie is an empath/people pleaser, so narcissists are attracted to her and feel some kind of fullness from the love that an empath fills a toxic person with. Plus she's young and easy to manipulate
She’s definitely a people pleaser. To me, she’s always given off a vibe of being “innocent and needing to be protected,” as well as very mature and constantly seeking for acceptance and approval. Most children are either one way or the other - sweet and innocent but hard to connect with because they’re mentally still young (like they should be), or overly mature and skeptical with life and adults (like a lot of abused children). She is a natural people pleaser and would do anything to get people who she’s close to to like her. With Abby, she was easy to manipulate because she was small and wanted to please Abby. With Sia, she had a level of innocence from being a child, but she was also emotionally upset and mature because of her experiences with Abby. Elder women liked her because they could easily manipulate her and parade her around as their “little star” and Maddie should be too sweet to say anything about it, even if it impacted her own mental health. On top of that, she’s beautiful and talented - easy to show off.
she's been groomed to be a people pleaser from birth. child performers are rewarded when they do their jobs and keep their mouths shut, which makes it so much easier to manipulate and abuse them without anyone finding out. the adults in her life have taught her that her worth comes from who she is as a product-a dancer, an actress, a pretty girl, a celebrity, etc. her own mother admits to repeatedly handing her off to the most famous person who's currently interested in her. i wouldn't be remotely surprised if she struggles with insecurity and feels like she has to perform for approval
@@p0lyxena Certainly. Abby constantly overlooked her value as a person and pressured her to win over and over again, overlooking the fact that Maddie was going into panic attacks and was stressed out. Abby even told her once that people only liked her because she won - that if she wasn’t a winner and if she didn’t dance, then she would be nothing. She told her that she disgraced the ALDC by losing to her own sister, Mackenzie, even though Mackenzie was also an ALDC member. She also constantly overlooked how uncomfortable Maddie was about being put on a pedestal - Maddie would bite her nails, look down awkwardly, and nearly start to cry whenever Abby brought someone else down to bring her up. It’s quite disgusting.
yeah abuser groom kids in a way that makes them easier to continue to abuse, and that means that a former victim is often more susceptible to being abused again bc they have all these taught behaviors that make them more appealing to new abusers
I called that out once and was actually attacked cause I was apparently accusing someone of behaving inappropriately with a child but I gave them a hypothetical situation. But the fact that if you reversed the roles people would consider it grooming says a lot imo
exactly. especially sia, melissa “loves it when they snugggle together” and she slept over once a week? it sounds like melissa just lets whoever she thinks will excel her daughters career for fame/fortune groom her.
i don’t think sia is trying to present herself as Maddies mother figure i think it’s more sia is protective because she knows maddie in ways other people like the public don’t and i think she’s protective because she knows how much maddie has been through at such a young age, it’s a good thing maddie has an older role model she can look up to i don’t think it’s unhealthy
@@Chelsea.Stevie Of course I'm sure she would. But Sia is in the Hollywood scene, unlike Maddie's mom, so she sadly knows a lot more about the awful stuff that goes on behind the scenes.
I don't know what it is that draws them to Maddie but these women seem very unnaturally dependent on her. And it's sort of a forced codependency because it seems like Maddie is desperate to latch onto a mother figure because that's all she's known since she was a literal toddler.
I feel like some of these relationships are kind of weird. some of these women are obsessive and overstep boundaries that would definitely would cause outrage if they were men.
@@angelnafeesa5332 this is such a double standard. Men or women engaging or doing such inappropriate still leave the same impact on a child’s mind. That is speaking from experience
As i see it Sia and Maddie do have a "mother and daughter" bond... Sia saw her grow all those years and also took care of her... It is a bit harder to have a "father and daughter" bond between 2 non relatives though.... The first one is plausible because I've felt it with my nanny, i almost grew up with her and she's like my second mother
@@dannykadyr1673 THIS!! Male, female, anything else - no matter who someone is anyone who harms a child deserves punishment!! I’ve heard and seen of too many cases of female teachers harming children and such, so yea. There is a double standard :’(
I think her boundaries were abused since she was a young child, her mother allowed it to happen in the dance studio her whole young life. Maddie doesn’t know what a healthy relationship is because that is what she grew up with. It is creepy to have relationships with those much older especially sleep overs.
As a family member of a person who has PTSD. Let me just say, Sia saying Maddie getting a therapist so she wont be crazy jokingly honestly outraged me. It doesn't matter if you are talking about PTSD or not, don't joke about mental health and call people with it crazy.
Honestly Sia recently admitted she “can’t do a project without Maddie” and I feel like everyone is waking up a bit to that obsession and I’m really thankful for this video for calling it so early
This makes me think that Maddie doesn’t have a super great relationship with Melissa, so she started turning to other people to provide that “motherly” relationship to her. Or maybe from the fact that Abby started using her at such a young age, she feels like all women figures should be overbearing. (Just my very psychological take on this.)
it looks similar to my relationship with my ex-nanny. I almost grew up with her and she is like my second mother. Same with Sia, who saw Maddie and helped her grow. Yall should grow tf up and stop calling "gross" at every single bond between old and young person you see
You can't compare Michael Jackson to sia when it comes to talent, success, fame, popularity, and fortune he is on another level a level that sia will never be on and he is famous, popular, and successful in the real world not in the dancing world
If I were a mom I would never give permission or allow my child to be shared amongst the public especially when working professionally. You need to set boundaries and not over step them. When you cross the line, everything becomes confusing and blurry.
Quite honestly I don't see anything wrong with Maddie and Gia's relationship, and the only thing I saw concerning with Sia and Maddie's relationship was the cuddling and snuggling in bed. Also the nickname of muse is a little weird. I just think some of these people want to live vicariously through Maddie. However getting someone's teeth tattooed on your arm is very weird I must say.
Hailey Parsons I know the reason is that she wanted Maddie to embrace her teeth, but it is still very weird to get a child’s teeth tattooed on your arm regardless of the reasoning.
Yeah I think her relationship with Gia was super normal, they said its like a sisterly relationship. I think she was put in the video to highlight the difference between a healthy and almost toxic relationship.
I agree that a lot of these things I covered aren't super concerning when you look at each situation by itself. But when I saw all of these together, it raised plenty of concerns.
Am I the only one who thinks that the sentence “ I never wanted to do any thing without her. “ sounds kind of ... obsessive. I don’t think even biological parents feel this way towards their own kids.
From what I understand it doesnt seem like Maddie had the most happy or stable homelife as her parents were going through a divorce. To be frank, Melissa was not the best role model so i wonder if these attachments to other influential women came about due to Maddie seeking that in her life - but yea i do see the potential that if these relationships fell apart it could be disasterous.
It's fine and all that Sia "saved" Maddie from getting on a plain with Weinstein, but this proves that she's known about the type of guy Weinstein was and said nothing for years. Think of how many other women she could have "saved" if she had spoken up or reported him...
Almost every big star in hollywood has known about weinstein for many many years. No one spoke out either because 1) they feared the repercussions they would face like not getting any film offers anymore or 2) they had a personal incident with him that they just weren't ready to share with the public or 3) there are bigger predators in the industry than Harvey and they accept it as a part of their job. Its unfortunately the cold truth of show business.
Reported him for what? Being creepy? Maybe she just had a feeling he wasn't safe. You can't report anything when it is just a feeling with no evidence.
Weinstein was never a secret, it just took a long time for someone to take action against him. It's not like Sia was the only celeb that knew about him.
Im happy that Sia didnt let Maddie get on a plane with Weinstein, but having sleepovers with a kid, making Maddie worl ONLY with her and acting like her mom is very creepy and kinda scary
Some Time ago I read about a young woman who was 18 and wanted to model (I think it was modeling or acting) and the adult who would have been like her modelling manager told her to come to his house (she could stay there, so she didn't have to travel back home and come back again the next day) This woman trusted that person, and he raped her that night. Regarding that experience, I think that maby (if) Sia is a good person and knows how many creeps and bad people are out there who could manipulate and abuse her, she would have her only work with her - so a thing like described earlier woudln't be happening to Maddie. Yes the relationship between them is a bit weird for outstanders. I can only tell you that I work with kids and some are really lovely and you start liking them like they are your little sister or brother. Especially when I take care of a toddler or a baby, I kind of get that feeling of wanting to protect it. Also if kids like you, they will (on their own) come and hug you, or snuggle. Personally I am an onlychild, I never had siblings, so I appreciate beeing able to spend time with them and be a rolemodel for them, be a listener when they need someone to listen, and play games with them (I like uno cardgame most) if they are bored. But well I can't speak for other people. So yes Maddies relationships with older people seem weird, but I don't know any of them personally.
It’s so weird i can’t think of another example like theirs that is normal 😬 its also super sketch that she didn’t even want to meet that other little girl in her music video
it was sick in dance moms how i saw that maddie LIVED for abby's praise. she made her whole entire life revolve around abby, and pleasing abby. the way that she freaked out when she forgot her solo bc abby would be mad at her, or how after every solo she would go up to abby hoping for praise and affection is grooming. abby made herself the most influential person in maddie's life, and made maddie worship her, worship pleasing her. sickening.
The snuggling is weird. Melissa shouldn’t be plastering that all over the place. I had to really think about why I think it’s such a red flag. I wouldn’t think anything of a super close aunt and niece pair. But Sia and Maddie started with a professional relationship. Sia pays Maddie on a regular basis. Let that sink in.
I was closer to my great aunty than almost anybody growing up. She would take me for special weekends and on school holidays and just make me feel so loved. We NEVER 'snuggled' in bed. The closest thing would be a cuddle on the couch while watching tv or a movie (usually the horse or nutcracker scenes from Fantasia) and that was when I was VERY young. She was an affectionate woman and I was a child with no boundaries. So the 'snuggling' is an ENORMOUS red flag to me. I can imagine teen girls 'snuggling' when one needs support badly, but not just.. for fun? That's not normal.
@@VegemiteQueen1 exactly, I can't say for sure since I don't have such a close bond with adults, but I can never imagine milyself snuggling with any of them. Even if we were super close
it was creepy that she may sleep in the same bed. Sia treats Maddie like a daughter because she has no children until recently in may of 2019. It is good though she kept her away from Harvey Winstein.
Sia can't be like a mother figure to Maddie. There is a pretty clear power dynamic there that would never exist between a mother and daughter - Sia has a huge amount of control over Maddie's career. Creating roles for Maddie to keep her 'safe' seems weird and unsustainable. ...although Sia might take a step back now that Maddie isn't a child anymore..?
I would like to leave my account here: when I was a child, I was a prodigy in some areas, and I was notable among other children. This led me to be friends with some adults and learn from them, but I felt a little uncomfortable as I saw adults as authorities. I've also noticed that other children saw the different treatment I received. In my case, even though my parents were busy and neglectful in some ways, I didn't want another mother figure but my mother. I don't know if Melissa was a present mother, but she seems to be. What makes people want to "adopt" Maddie is that she has always been a polite, obedient, intelligent, and caring girl. It's the kind of child every mother wants to have. That is, when people see the peaceful way she acts, coupled with her vulnerability as a child, they take her as a daughter. Looking at Maddie's side, it's easy to accept other people as your "mothers" when they're willing to give you the constant approval you seek.
Abby & Maddie and Sia & Maddie's relationships are pretty identical. The difference being we saw what Abby was doing. We only hear stories about Sia & Maddie. There aren't any cameras following them around to showcase it. So obviously if you're telling someone a story about yourself you're gonna only showcase the parts you think are good. I think that's why some people have blinders on and don't see Sia & Maddie as toxic. Because they only tell us the narrative from one POV.
100% it is so strange that Melissa allows these people to have such controlling relationships with her daughters. Sia talks about Abby having traumatised Maddie, but does the same thing in private. She is obsessed with Maddie the same way Abby was. It is not normal at all that she is snuggling with her in bed. Who knows what Sia is really doing to Maddie? She definitely has a saviour complex, the way she always publicly talks about Abby abusing Maddie, and claiming it was her idea to get her therapy, it was her idea not to let her go on a plane with Weinstein, etc... but she doesn’t publicly address that she is literally sharing a bed with her.
It's startling how quickly Maddie jumped from her mentor/mentee relationship with Abby to a similar one with Sia. While I personally believe that Sia treats Maddie with more respect and kindness than Abby did, the speed and intensity of their relationship is not normal at all.
@@SG-ij5in I think yall are making assumptions. None of us know what goes on behind camera. I'm pretty sure if maddie is uncomfortable with being around sia, they would no longer be together.
Obviously Maddie was aware of it. I think it's a sweet gesture. It's not like the woman was a creepy stranger or anything. She was trying to show Maddie that her teeth are fine the way they are/were. It's creepy but I dont think she had evil or gross intentions
Tbh giannas and maddies Relationship were the most normal because it’s pretty weird to have a like 40 year old women cuddling with a minor that’s really strange
Hmm I guess so but I cuddle with my mom and friends... And if sia is like her best friend I don't find that part weird. I find sia broadcasting maddies ptsd more alarming
@@isabellemillet4673 The point people keep mentioning that is worth really noting is that Sia is Maddie's boss. They have a professional working relationship, so making it that personal is extremely abnormal to say the least.
I hate that scene where it was so clear that Abby was manipulating her. No adult should CRY and tell a CHILD that they hurt their feelings because of them obeying their parent. No adult should try to get a child to go behind their mother's back.
I always hated that Abby had that convo with her. She was a little girl who had to listen to her mother. Abby was acting like they were equals and Maddie betrayed her. She should have been angry with Melissa directly.
Yeah I thought it was one of the most disgusting scenes on dance moms.
@@MadisonHarlow I remember on one of the reunion shows, how Maddie herself had said that she found it uncomfortable and inappropriate for Abby to be speaking to her as an adult--as I recall, Maddie said something to the effect of "I'm nine years old and have to follow my mom's rules."
It gave me the creeps, I remember going through the same manipulation with my own mother, it’s absolutely horrifying. My heart goes out to Maddie
@@cherylannemason I was disgusted with the way Abbey treated her students in dance mums
It really isn't Sia's place to be speaking on Maddie's mental health so publicly
Yeah
It's infuriating. Creating Maddie's narrative for her :/
I would be livid and devastated if I was in Maddie's place in this situation
Imagine having a famous person speaking anout your personal life like mental health so public like wtf
Well sia is Maddie's god mother and sia actually asked her if it was ok so you should probably stop assuming sia had done nothing wrong
Sia is definitely grooming Maddie. Even if it’s not sexual, she’s grooming her to be codependent. Snuggling, living together, suggesting adoption, shutting down her other projects, continuing to make projects to keep Maddie at her side. This will come out years later and we will all wonder how it got so far
Totally agree with you. I feel like in a few years Maddie will distance herself from sia like she did with Abby. The relationships are very similar but on different sides if you know what I mean.
@Macarou exactly. Like it may not be sexual but it’s definitely up there with manipulation. What catches my eye is shutting down other projects and making ones for her. That shows a sense of obsession. And that’s actual cult persuasion tactics to bring people in. You give them everything they could want but shut down things on the outside to keep them dependent
This is actually the most ridiculous thing I have read on the internet today..leave the young girl alone..you are bullying a teenager and you should all be ashamed of yourselves
@@biancapranic772 you say im bullying a teenager when I don't talk bad about her once. I mentioned sia's questionable behavior. nothing about maddie was said. so it sounds like you're really upset about something else.
@@ayshadean8432 how do you think this teenager feels about videos being made of her and comments regarding her friendships.
Its ridiculous you don't actually see the damage this stiff does..would you like videos being made and put out for the world to see about your relationships? Consider just for a second how damaging these videos are and really what business is it of anyones?
Isn't anyone concerned by the fact that this underage girl keeps being surrounded by OLDER women who all seem obsessed with her? I think her mother has failed her because she's the one who's allowed all of this. I would never allow my child to get so close and intimate with an adult, be it a man or woman.
I'm just trying to figure out what exactly is drawing these adult women to this very young lady? She's beautiful, she can dance, she has a great personality, but there's gotta be more to it, because it continues to be her in these weird situations with adult women. Very off.
@@yellurbandana It's super weird. I'm 29 and there's no way I could imagine becoming besties with an 11 year old and having this kind of relationship unless it was literal family. And even then, probably not.
@@yellurbandana Because she tries to please everyone and doesn't show emotions that would make said people feel bad. That's the key. They hone in on the fact that she's willing to become whoever they need her to be and latch on.
agree
@@yellurbandana She's everything they dreamed to be one day and failed to.
This poor girl doesn’t know what a real relationship even is
@@alondratorres306 exactly
I mean how tf do you all know what she is going through.... You think you know about everything in her life? What her relationships are like? You think you know everything because of some info on the internet? Just live your own life and stop making idiotic conclusions about people just by watching interviews and shows on the damn internet.
EDIT: I get the dance moms issue but my point is mostly about people hating on her relationshio with Sia
@@ori2301 look y’all we found the Maddie stan😂
@@narajayde520 dont even know what maddie does besides the music videos I've seen of Sia LMAO. Its just unfair to meddle in another's life without knowing shit about their irl issues
@@narajayde520
I actually feel like Maddie stans are the ones who are more concerned for her - like the ones who are standing up for her against Sia and Abby and saying that she’s wasting her potential and needs to move on to better things.
i think saying that sia has a savior complex is kinda accurate. it’s really just kinda weird how she PUBLICLY brags about how she saw signs of ptsd in maddie and how she might need a therapist and all that. plus with all the lavish gifts and constantly spending time together, it’s almost like she’s grooming maddie.
It’s disturbing how a professional relationship became this close.
Welp, after the ableist fiasco that is Music, I think we can confirm that. She's got serious issues and should not be kept near that poor girl.
Or maybe Sia was just giving Maddie what she never had...
Also, she adopted two black teenagers, which would on its own, be great, but really doesn’t help with the whole saviour complex thing. The way she spoke about them on an Aussie news show was kind of uncomfortable. I got huge white saviour vibes from it
preciselyyy
i never realised how creepy these adults were around maddie, it’s kinda scary
I feel like the only one not is Gia
I've always thought that this was very strange. If this was anyone else sharing their daughters with other adults, people would be flipping out but it's Maddie so apparently it's not an issue...
sorta reminded me of how adults were towards shirley temple
Yeah it was a bit creepy about sia sleeping with maddie too 😬
Once Abby was talking to Maddie before she went on stage and had tears in her eyes because she was so mentally invested in maddie
I am a mother and I would never share MY DAUGHTER with strangers, no matter how sweet they could be with my baby. I think we as parents need to set boundaries, sleeping with another grown up woman, Abbey forcing a kiss, come on! I don't understand how her real mother is so chill with all of this!
SAAAME!! As a parent my duty is to protect my child and be there for him as a mother. It's my role to play not anybody else's.
cause Melissa is a fame obsessed freak
Maybe that's why Maddie is also drawn to them cause her mum maybe doesn't try to stop it so maybe she trys so find a better mother figure idk I'm just guessing but how Maddie is is going to affect her big time in relationships of all kinds and that is not good for her
@@penelopem835 shut up
Ur not “sharing” ur daughter. She’s a human being, not a toy.
i think the thing that bothers me about sia is she said she recognised all the girls were being abused but as far as we know only made moves to protect maddie???
I wish this was a bigger topic of discussion. The other girls suffered similar abuse but no one came to their rescue. The amount of mental health issues most of the girls probably developed being yelled at and torn down by their teacher/mentor in front of the American audience is not something that should be ignored. I hope the best all of them. Especially Nia who seemed not just a victim of Abby’s child abuse, but also racism.
@@katalina7826 thank you for adding to that dialogue! i mean let’s be real children like paige and chloe showed signs of intensive trauma (i’m not gonna call it PTSD i’m not a therapist. @ sia) long before maddie did. not to say maddie had it good, i’m not gonna be one of those people. the adults in her life abused her but it manifested itself in a very, very different way. and i’m gonna be that person and in part blame people like sia. because she played favourites maddie is still dancing, most of the other girls aren’t AND have intensive mental health to deal w i imagine
I feel like it had more to do with the idea that Maddie was the only one who was already groomed by Abby. Abby already manipulated that poor child into thinking that the only way to be happy and successful is to kiss up to and obey elder women. Abby tried to isolated Maddie from her friends and even her own sister and mom. Abby groomed Maddie into thinking that she was the only one who cared and that she should put her own needs and comforts second.
Like, there were SO MANY times where it was obvious that Maddie was uncomfortable with Abby showing her off - like when she didn’t volunteer to take Paige’s solo and sounded like she was about to cry when Abby pressured her into taking it, and when she bit her nails and looked down when Abby flaunted her crowns. Yet Abby taught her that her own concerns and needs came second so Maddie couldn’t speak up.
Sia did the same thing. Many of her ideas were controversial - like Maddie playing as a depressed person, her dancing with an older man, and mostly, her being in an ableist movie. But she picked Maddie knowing that Abby airway trained the poor girl into thinking that her needs came second - hence why Maddie was still pressured into Music even after she cried on set.
Yeah I mean on dance moms Maddie was the favourite of Abby's, so what treatment did the none favourite children get? If Sia really felt sorry for the girls on the show, she would have supported all of them.
If Sia's motivation was purely selfless she would have focused on developing Maddie as an individual, encouraging different interests, making friends of hernown age etc. Where as Sia decided to take from this abused child, forming a co-dependent relationship, while monopolizing her time.
@@NotAnotherKuromi i think you and the previous commenter were 100% on the money. my initial thoughts about sia was she just bought into the fabricated storyline. because i know when she was first asked “why maddie?” she said something along the lines of “the other girls are beautiful and talented but maddie is the best. she draws people in with her dancing”. so i think it’s interesting she’s pulling this saviour complex bullshit now. she did nothing to give that girl a normal life. she’s obsessed with her and kept the grooming going. and the truly sad thing is it’ll probably take maddie multiple years to see it
So is NO one gonna talk about how Abby kissed Maddie on the lips when Maddie was clearly trying to get away!!!!!!!!!
People already talked about it when it happened. It's an old video so no one is surprised anymore
DISGUSTING Abby liked it no doubt about it.
@@Americanhoney573 "Abby liked it", don't overreact
@@daria5846
I just react, it wouldn’t cross my mind to do this.
@@Americanhoney573 That doesn't mean she liked it and was into it😂 she is a kid to Abby.
The snuggling is weird. And I couldn’t really articulate why it is weird until I recognized that their relationship started as professional. Sia writes Maddie a pay check.
@Brichanise Terrell No- that's strange if they aren't related.
@@秋彦月島 actually no that is normal for girls, and since Sia is officially her guardian which means of her parents died Sia becomes her mother its completely normal.
Depending on background and culture this is very normal to sit down and give someone a hug.
And since Sia is like a parental figure to her she hugs maddie like its her daughter.
@blue chimera sleepovers mean anything from same bed, or someone on the coucg while yoir in the bed, or seperate rooms, or one person on the floor and one person on the bed.
And snuggling means anything from actual cuddling to resting a head on a shoulder, wrapping an arm around a shoulder, both sitting on the couch watching a movie snuggled up in blanket earing popcorn.
Literally the word sleepover and snuggles is so vague .
So its important to not make a judgment without information.
At 12 I had a 24 year old friend who hung out with me, and when I was 16 I had a 31 year old who was like a sister who would stay the night in a seperate room which we called sleepovers.
And we would watch movies and she would rest her head on my shoulder which others would say snuggling, but it was just someone like a older sister hanging out.
So until we know what snuggle is as in Australia the word is used for everything and sleepover means everything aswell not to mention we are very tactile, less emotional but more tactile. So until theres a direct fact on specifics on what snuggle and sleepover means , its best to not go straight to the worst thought possible.
In Australia I find even our celebrities are super tactile regardless of fame, one of my faves will give long hugs and kiss her fans all over the face and hold hands likee a couple but shes just super tactile.
But like I said myself and I know many others who have older friends who are like family , we have sleep overs, which can mean staying the night in the spare room, and we dont know if the parent is there. And since "snuggle" has multiple innocent meanings non of us know until either Sia or Maddie explain it.
🙂
yeah...it almost sounds like grooming...
The paycheck part is pretty key. I think people maybe focus too much on the physical contact stuff or the age difference, when it's power dynamics you need to be aware of and emotional and psychological abuse you really ought to be on the lookout for (and that usually precedes or accompanies any physical or sexual abuse) because it is more damaging and has longer lasting effects (as research indicates).
There's also the power dynamic of being rich and famous versus trying to get started in the same industry. Kids with Maddie's history (being on an exploitative show like Dance Moms) should get regular therapy for years after such an experience.
It should be okay for people to take an active coparenting or supportive role in the lives of children (who are not their blood)... as long as it's healthful for the child and not because the child is getting paid to hang out with the adult. How could anyone ever parent effectively without a support network that will watch the kid when they need a break? Also it's just as easy for a blood relative to abuse you as it is for any other adult (sometimes easier for the blood-relative because of a sense of ownership/enmeshment associated with blood-relation).
I support my nibling and their parents, which sometimes involves making suggestions about putting a boundary in place when a problematic behavior arises (instead of ignoring it until it's overwhelming and then overreacting). My nibling visits and sometimes sleeps over (mostly to give their parent a break/night alone), and they love to hug and cuddle while we read books together (which I'm sure they'll grow out of eventually).
I also have a weird quasi-mentorship with a neighbor kid (a friend of my nibling) because he talks to me about his life and asks me questions (usually about social stuff) when I'm out riding my bike, working in the garden, or waiting to pick up my nibling after school. We're both autistic, so I try to explain social stuff in a way that's helpful (i.e. that I would have found helpful at his age). I get the feeling that he asks the same sort of questions to his parents or teachers, but their answers aren't really providing the info he needs (because they are allistic and aren't really understanding the question being asked and/or judge him for asking it).
I don't think my relationships with these kids are in any way harmful to the kids just because I'm an adult and they are kids. I don't rely on them for anything, I enjoy and appreciate their existence/being, feel loving-kindness towards them, and I try to offer support when they ask for it, if I am able.
Just saying that we shouldn't assume that amicable interaction and platonic consensual physical contact between an adult and child is intrinsically harmful, but we should also recognize that power dynamics can complicate the situation and patterns of emotional and psychological abuse (like what we see in Dance Moms and similar shows) definitely are. I think you do a good job of pointing out the key aspect that indicates a potentially problematic relationship: an on-going one-directional professional relationship compounded by additional power dynamics of: age difference, fame, and industry power.
Calling a girl "muse" is already wierd. Not healthy for her for sure.
no i think she just called her an inspiration but that relationship was still definitely very weird and creepy.
Yeah, a muse definitely sort of implies something... inappropriate, at least for someone of Maddie’s age. The adult woman a painter paints from time to time is a muse. The little girl who has starred in a singer’s music video is not.
@@fredhasopinions I was under the impression that muse and inspiration were like the same thing...😬😑 school failed me 🤷♀️😂
I’m sorry what is a muse again? School failed me
i disagree
I'm sorry but it's scary how an ADULT like Sia is so interested in such a young person..
@@jasser1918 but that's one incident from a whole toxic relationship. That would be like taking one good part of lockdown and only concentrating on that one part.
@@-lilyy.anaa- Sia sees her as her daughter, she did rescue her from the possible clutches of a pedophile. Theres nothing wrong with a bond thats like a mother and daughter or sisters.
Also everyone here is viewing it from social media point of view.
When I was 15 I hung out with a friend all the time who was 31 , I saw her as my big sister. This is very normal for older women to take a younger girl under the wing and for and older man to take a young boy under his wing.
If Sia was hanging out with no one else and only kids then yes that would be incredibly concerning like with Michael Jackson.
Sia is now Maddies Guardian/Godmother and Sia has always wanted children so she naturally has this nurturing feel to her, sadly she cant have kids due to medical issues with her ovaries which is why she has adopted two sons.
Young girls will naturally cling sometimes to an older female figure and same with boys.
Sia saw the psychological damage and signs that maddie may get into dangerous things with the pressure her mother and dance teacher put on her, so she wanted to help her get out of that.
If Sia has inappropriately touched her, spoken certain words about her body and only spent time with her then yes something is suss.
But this to me is very normal.
Litterally the same as having an older adoptive sister, and now that Sia is officially a guardian of maddies , if her parents pass away Sia will litterally be her mother so offcourse shes gonna be close to her.
My family have been the victims of child abuse so we know the obvious signs. Litterally nothing stands out here as suss unless theres other info out their that I havent heard about.
@@Chartail1 thank you for giving something to read and hate while in on the toilet
@@-lilyy.anaa- @Lily Kaur I know it sucks reading something from the point of view of people who have been groomed by pedos and have had ptsd from war and guns to the head and who understand things not by getting their understanding from twitter or google or tic tok but by real life.
But you are welcome non the less
😂
@@Chartail1 wtf
sia: maddie’s too good for that role
also sia: *casts her in an ableist movie thats already bombing*
Exactly
Agreed.
Ik. But some people hate on maddie rather than sia. I feel bad for Maddie tho, unless there's a reason to hate?
@@veronicaboholl definitely no reason to hate on maddie, i think bc she’s 18 now ppl dont realize she was 14 at the time of filming and contractually obligated to participate. she’s a victim
@@pitpat2928 yea. True, I feel very bad:(
Honestly I think one of the most questionable things in this video is Melissa's parenting and who she allows to be around her kids
This should be pinned
poor maddie and mackenzie. They dont have a mother they have a friend
i don’t think Melissa purposely puts her kids in these situations though :( i just think she so desperately wants her kids to be happy that she just ignores stuff. being that they have a divorced household, i do know sometimes parents feel they have to be the “better” parent so their kids don’t leave, so it is possible Melissa is more lenient because she wants them to stay with her.
@@niaram she may not do it purposely but she sure as hell doesn't stop things when they cross a line. Like letting your 11 year old sleep over a 40 year old women's house once a week and calling them snuggling cute like I am sorry but that crosses so many lines I don't care how close Maddie and Sia may be that is wrong. Or letting her dance teacher kiss her on the lips or another women get a tattoo of her teeth.But then again I find most friendships between adults and children to be weird because why would someone who has no relation to you who is more than twice your age want to be friends with you? It's just weird imo 💖
Kenny B i’m not excusing her behavior, i’m just explaining why she might be blinded to it. i agree, it is weird.
This is disturbing. Also just found out they Sia had Madsie sleep in the same bed with her and they would "cuddle", when Maddie was 12 years old! We took Michael Jackson to court over stuff like that
Where is the energy for Sia???
exactly sia should go to court for this
double standards
oprah also said that she was having sleepovers and cuddling with girls from her school, and also having long phone call conversations with them
i don't see her in handcuffs either
Different rules for different genders especially with all the anti-male evironment brought about by the lynch mob #metoo.
@@FruityHachi gross :/
Well, sia can't go to court unless Maddie herself has sia arrested
This makes me question Melissa more than anyone else. No woman should be a better mother to your child than you. (unless they adopted them a course) but otherwise you should be the best mom you can be and not “share” your daughter.
IKR😔
Ya it's kinda strange
She's a bad mom period. She allowed and probably encouraged their racism (Mackenzie and Maddie). She sets no rules for them.
Wallflower you’re speaking nothing but facts. of course she allowed her racist behavior towards Asians. the two videos that were resurfacing were years apart, which means her racist gross behavior happened more than once, for years.
Melissa has always acted as more of a friend to her kids rather than her being a mom.
I feel like the only relationship that isn’t alarming is hers with Gianna
Yeah
You’re gonna hate me but... who is Gianna?
@@courtneykirschman1166 the choreographer she’s not in many episodes in the earlier seasons
@@hay394 thank you
@Brichanise Terrell stop
why are they all obsessed with this little girl its actually concerning
agreed
Right, very weird
couldn't agree more
Sadly she became famous so quickly they probably saw her as a money train and nothing else. :/ it’s very sad.
i think they want to be like her for some reason
I feel like out of relationships Gianna is the only one who really understood that Maddis was a child, and was not dependent on her like Abby or sia and because of the fact she taught her dance all the time they grew what seems like a healthy working relationship
Probably bc Gianna and Maddie were similar
Gianna is the bully's sidekick
I agree with that
Sia having maddy over in her bed cuddling all the time is really weird... you can be a good mother figure without asking for things like that.
yeah....
Yes but we don't know if maddie agreed to this ir not. Either way its still creepy, but probably less if there is an agreement and its not forced
@@bluecritical7618 I doubt maddie was aware of how fucking weird it was because she was a CHILD.
@@bluecritical7618 you can’t agree to anything when you’re under 18. Snuggling with someone else’s 12 year child is 100% inappropriate even if the child wants to because children can be easily manipulated and don’t always understand if something is weird.
Sia gives me major michael jackson vibes
in my opinion, having a tattoo of maddies teeth comes across as slightly unusual... i realise that she was insecure and it was meant to be a nice gesture, but why couldn’t she have tattooed like a positive quote or something instead? if someone did that to me (im also insecure about my teeth) it would make me uncomfortable. even someone that im really close with.
Who had it? Timestamp (didnt watch full vid )
@@ttoll7185 Tonya
•Marble_ Your Girl• 9:18
Oh wow..
Didn’t get that far in the video yet. Thanks for the unsettling heads up. Lol
When abby kissed maddie it made me so uncomfortable. Like huh? How was that acceptable
That was the one thing that didn’t bother me lol. Abby looks like my great aunt that used to smooch me everytime she saw me.
@@ablair33556 yea, but like? Maddie didn’t look comfortable at all when Abby kissed her? She looked like she wanted to get away.
Аида Хунг but she’s not her aunt and yes it is very strange
If it was a male teacher, it wouldn’t be defended by, “a god-father-figure”
@@ailanouk oh hell no. I think it may be a culture difference since I’m Singaporean and we don’t show much physical affection but kissing a child on the lips!? To me, that’s unacceptable.
Guys, Sia sounds almost exactly like Michael Jackson having sleepovers with little boys. I don't know the nature of their relationship, but it's weird as hell.
That was proved false so please shut up- Michael never slept with anyone's kids please edit this out or something-
he was watching movies with girls, boys, adults, and parents of those kids
it wasn't just boys, but the media created the narrative that he had "sleepovers with little boys" to portray him as gay and a pedo
do your own research instead of going of sound bites and calling it "weird as hell" when you don't know the nature of their relationship
@@honeydewstudios9861 He did sleep with them in the sense that the kids slept in his bed with him. But he grew up in a family that did that so he thought it was normal. He didn't molest or sexually abuse the kids.
What was the point of this comment.... don’t you think I know that...?
Let’s not act like while Michael let these kids sleep on his bed he didn’t sleep on the floor
not to forget that maddie BEGGED Sia to not be portraying the role in “music” bc she was afraid of the possible backlash and possibly offending people. she cried...
When did she say that? Is there a video?
@@gbekeee858 sia said it she said maddie was crying the first day filming the movie because she didn’t want people to think she was mocking them
When a literal child is smarter than the adults around her
@@rashunisaac6601 did she say that in an interview? :c I would like to watch it
@Caitlin Snyder thank you so much!
that is terrifying that she almost got on that plane with Weinstein. Jesus Christ. Good for Sia for saving her
i don’t know who jimmy is. what do you think would have happened?
RoyaleFendi Harvey Weinstein was a well known producer in Hollywood. Recently many woman have come forward saying he abused his power and sexually assaulted them. It was a lot of women. He’s disgusting!!! Sia was right to keep Maddie off that plane!!
I think Sia makes sure she is with the right people so Maddie is protected from Hollywood. Every kid star that started young always comes out w sexual abuse claims. I think that is why Sia said she protects her. Since Maddie left Dance Moms, Abby hasn't been the same since. Abby thought she would have Maddie in her life forever. Maddie does have that something about her. She is beautiful and such a good dancer. Plus, she learns quick, and easy to work with. I am so happy Sia got her off that plane. Where were you Melissa? I dont understand the whole teeth tattoo though...kinda weird. Gianna is the only one that is super cool and was not weird like the others
Meli Detwiler thanks for telling me!
Weinstein was know to hang out with Epstein too which is.....super concerning too
Just the fact that there are 5 examples of older women having a personal relationship/infatuation/obsession with maddie is concerning in and of itself.
Gia was normal though
I mean, Maddie is a very beautiful girl and she’s extremely talented so I honestly see why someone would like her but yeah, that’s creepy.
Yeah, i agree but i think gias relationship is normal
Ilana Funk Yeah. That’s how older sisters should act.
Neo Android yeah i agree, i think gia’s relationship with maddie was totally normal, she was like a big sister to her. but some of the other ones are just a little bit creepy.
the sad thing is, positive relationships with adults who aren't your parents shouldn't be inherently bad or suspicious, but there are a lot of weird red flags here, and the fact that she's a child actor/entertainer and being looked at as this muse/people feel some sense of belonging/ownership of her with all these adults is... weird. sia in particular feels like a very obsessive and not healthy relationship from what we've seen/heard publically.
Exactly. You put it into words
I blame Melissa for all of that. If she was a good mother, there wouldn't be need for sia to co-parent
@IFEOLUWA ADEBANJO that's keeping her alive, not having her avoid strange relationships with adults.
For real. Though I do think Sia was kind of over obsessed with Maddie she really is the only good parent fugue (aside from her dad he tried to get her out of dance moms)
@@adeleaslan8182 i think the issue is melissa didn't stop the relationship between sia and maddie despite how weird it was getting
@@mermaedman definitely. She’s just happy someone else is doing her job for her
"It takes a whole village to raise a child".....remember that before you say things about melissa's parenting.
But it's ok everyone has their own opinion
Everyone is talking about the fact that they were kind off obsessed with her . But can nobody talk about the fact that sia saved Maddie from getting on that plane with Harvey Weinstein . I don’t even wanna know what would happen if she did went .
IKR Sia and Gia are okay but I am a lil concerned about getting sombodys teeth in you...
How is Harvey Weinstein and why was Maddie getting on a plane with him
Anna basically he’s famous for sexual crimes and if they went by themselves he would’ve tried to do something to her
@@annasoph8967 just look up his name and you'll see the reason why
Thats true
Can the next one be about Abby's students who" made it to Broadway" because I remember Abby bragging about them so much but I've never heard of them.
i’ve always thought about this !!
Yesssss
Yeah
This would be cool
Didnt Elliana make it to broadway?
maddie begging not to do music but sia forcing her to because she refuses to do a project without her is so weird. she has such a savior complex and it should be called out sm more.
I feel like Gia had the only normal relationship with her. The rest to me and creepy and borderline toxic. I’m 24 I can’t imagine calling someone who like 12 my daughter or get a tattoo of their teeth or even sleep in the same bed as the sorry but it’s weird
I agree it’s kinda weird how she has sleepovers with Sia especially because they’re so far apart in age
they all seem weird to me, except for gia and maddie who seem like a dance teacher and student.
I think the thing that makes Gia and Maddies relation ship normal is mostly that it isn't 'mother/daughter' but 'sister/sister'. like all the others are weird for other reasons too, but that stood out to me.
My youngest girl cousin and I are 13 years apart. Her mom used to nickname her “my child” as a baby when things like diaper changings came. When I lived with them during part of my college years I actually was in charge of raising her at times to the point I’d joke about being her “part-time mom”. Yes I still consider her to be almost like a daughter to me at times. Especially when her mom does something stupid
@@enigma1326 atleast your related to her so I think your situation is normal and really sweet
I think Maddie is quite mature and she probably finds it easy to be friends with adults. This could be because Abby kind of isolated her from her friends and Maddie grew up being so close to adults
now that you mention it yeah, and it's really sad that she grew up like that :(
yes definitely i’m like that i get on with older people i’m not comparing maddie’s situation to mine but it’s the way people work sometimes
Eh as an adult, I'd never call a child my friend, or even want to be friends with a child, it's not healthy and just weird. I've mentored kids in structured programs like big brothers/big sisters, but a child is not an adult even if you think that child is "mature". I don't think a healthy adult would call a child a friend
(This is actually quite disturbing if you think about how child grooming involves isolating them from other children, calling them “mature beyond their years”, so the child looks to adults for friendship, which gives adults ample opportunity to take advantage of her.)
I’ve got the same kind of situation, I call it ‘Mommy Issues’. Basically, I’ve been forced to grow up way too fast and have been repeatedly called ‘mature for my age’. This desire to please and impress adults so that I can be called mature for my age has really distanced me from my childhood- much like what Maddie would have gone through, except hers was on a larger scale as she had millions of eyes on her and didn’t want people to think she was spoilt or rude. I honestly feel sorry for her, no kid deserves to be put through that.
Her relationships with Sia and Tonya seem particularly odd to me. It’s almost like these older women are trying to relive their teenage years through her. I mean, what 40+ year old has sleepovers and cuddles in bed with a 17-year-old? It’s weird. I think what it comes down to is that Maddie has a deep need for approval from adults in her life, which causes her to latch onto adults that give her that validation. At the same time, those adults become obsessed with her as they are trying to live vicariously through her. The result is a weird, sometimes creepy dynamic in the relationships. We saw it happen with Abby on the show. Now that Abby’s out of her life, she’s created similar relationships with other adults because that’s all she knows. Granted, Sia and Tonya don’t seem to be nearly as toxic as Abby was, so I guess that’s an improvement. However, I do think it would greatly benefit Maddie (and Mackenzie) if Melissa would step up to the plate a little bit more instead of being content with “sharing” her daughters with other women.
🎯!! We need to find the name for that!!
Nailed it.
I agree, it’s like Michael Jackson use to have “sleepovers”
Completely agree
this comment right here!!
I got goosebumps from the creep vibes from Sia back in Chandelier days. I can’t wait for Maddie to break away from Sia just like she did Abby. Maddie’s clearly a strong girl & she’s got enough money success and talent to not need “protecting” anymore. Sia is the one who comes across as being troubled and traumatised. Sia has battled addiction, PTSD, eating disorder, self harm etc. it’s like Maddie is her emotional crutch and lets her live out her saviour fantasy
if you get ‘creep vibes ‘ from watching chandelier that’s kind of sad if u don’t understand the whole deeper meaning to it you seem old enough to write a whole paragraph but u don’t seem old enough to write a whole paragraph about maddie breaking away from Sia lol
@@slowzzz.9052 just because somebody feels uncomfortable with such a dark ambiance as chandelier does not mean he lacks depth.if anything the person has too much of it because they can recognize how Truly dark and twisted that universe is
While people like you crave sooo much to appear deep and intellectual that sadness is the only thing that excites you. Keep feeling so strong and you will end up like your idols
Engulfed in Human misery and self destructive spirit
You think ur intelligent because of your ability to be emotional. You are in for a wild ride.
@@slowzzz.9052 the video is beyond wrong BUT NOT AS WRONG AS THE "ELASTIC HEART" PERVERSION
The sad thing is, is that in season 1, Maddie's dad was there in one episode and said that dance ruined his family and that he was gonna do everything he could to make sure Maddie wouldnt dance with Abby after that season. He probably saw all of this coming and it would have been better if Maddie did leave Abby. Maybe not for her career but for her mental health.
And since then, i havent seen anything about Maddie and Mackenzie's dad. I wonder why. That would be interesting to find out where their dad is and what he thinks about all of this.
1000%
Melissa and Kurt had a divorce and in head over heals Mackenzie wishes that her dad (Kurt) was watching her.
Agreed. Do an episode on this please MackZBoss!
Her dad still probably sees them just not on the show. This was probably a drama bit and also Melissa is in charge if Kurt should see Maddie and Mackenzie. So she might of said she doesn't .
You’re completely right. He I wonder if he saw that a pattern would develop in addition to Abby completely changing her trajectory.
That scene where she told her to disobey her mum was peak emotional manipulation. Absolutely disgusted watching that play out.
Tbh, it wouldn't be a bad idea for all of the girls from the ALDC to do some form of therapy.
Totally agree that scene is so hard to watch
majority of the girls on the show suffered from anxiety, i think this would be a good idea.
There was also a scene where it was revealed that Abby told Maddie that nobody was happy for her and that everyone was jealous of her.
Who says that to anyone, much less a little girl? 😭
yess ikr paige and chloe went to therapy for years after the show
ALL of them should of been doing therapy since day 1
If it wasn’t for sia, Melissa would definitely let maddie onto the plane with Weinstein because it’s a “good opportunity”
He’s a celebrity who has been accused of many sexual harassment crimes so he’d probably Sexually abuse her maybe and Maddie’s still legally a minor (I think)
Melissa probably didn’t know at the time but sia did because she was in Hollywood and heard plenty of the rumors
I’m pretty sure Melissa would know since it was all over the news
Meghan C ... this would have been before #MeToo, obviously
@Audrey Rice he’s a s$xual asalter in Hollywood
Tonya getting a tattoo of Maddie’s baby teeth is absolutely the creepiest thing ever WTF
Yeah it’s literally crazy
I just feel bad for Maddie's sister. Imagine being stuck with a sibling who has the same hobby/carreer as you, but they always are treated as 'superior' in a way. Idk what I'm trying to say, i just think it must make her sister feel unworthy in some way, which is really sad.
I don’t think that’s true anymore.
Maddie’s more of a dancer now, while Kenzie stuck to singing.
Nowadays, people in the fandom appreciate both. Also, it’s definitely better for Kenzie not to get stuck in this as well.
@@pric4799 oh really? Huh I didnt know that. Haven’t been keeping up lol
@@leahrachelle.
Yep! Don’t get me wrong, Kenzie does occasionally dance sometimes, but she’s releasing more singing albums.
Meanwhile, Maddie is still dancing with Sia and acting in her movies.
i think thankfully kenzie went off to separate herself from her sister. on the show though, kenzie was always told she needed to be like her sister and her own mom +abby encouraged that instead of letting kenzie be her own person. im glad kenzie was able to separate herself though
Eh, later on, it'll be kenzie with the booming career because she didnt become infamous. She'll still be interesting, whereas once the drama dies down, not as many people will care. Its sad for maddie but thats my prediction..
What’s the most concerning for me was that Melissa was a actually going to let Maddie get on the plane with Harvey and sis had to step in to tell her that it was unsafe. If her own mother would let her get into that situation to get ahead in her career, what makes you think that she wouldn’t risk her daughter’s lives to get to a higher level of fame?
Finally someone spotting this problem.
wait sorry i wasn’t really listening at that part but who’s Harvey and what’s wrong with him? sorry i’m confused i just didn’t really listen
jomama and jopapa your probably to young if you don't know who he is.
Iloveboys36 true
Back then she probably didn't even know about all the problems concerning him. But idk
I feel like Sia only acts like a “second mom” because she saw how abusive the show was. And we all know that Melissa wasn’t the best. Or at least that’s what we saw on the show. She could have been a great mom irl. So I think sia took her out of the environment and started to protect her from more abusive opportunities. Slowly she became the loving parent that Maddie never had. I do believe it is grooming Maddie to rely on her. She took a vulnerable 11 year old and gave her everything. This is even more concerning when you realize that sia said Maddie had PTSD from her DM experience.
But cuddling in bed together is a little weird that’s like taking it to a whole mother level and the same for getting a kids teeth tattooed on u like that’s just not normal unless you’re related
Exactly
Ann __ that’s different when it’s a job lol but to spend the night with any adult just because is weird..and for Maddie to say she’d rather live with sia rather than Her actual mom is even weirder
Ann __ it would be different if she said it was like her friend but her daughter is most definitely obsessive
Ann __ it’s only normal to her because Melissa allowed the same with Abby
this didn’t age well with sia’s new movie coming out! maddie had cried back during their filming, because she didn’t want to people to think she was mocking autistic people. and sia told her that she “wouldn’t let them”. maddie is on contract with sia so she can’t speak on the topic at all but she likely doesn’t support the ableism involved in sia’s approach to the whole situation and it’s really sad. i hope that now as maddie becomes an adult she’s able to set boundaries for herself and decide what behaviours she’ll tolerate with the people she works with.
Agreed. I honestly feel really bad for Maddie. She’s stuck in such an unfortunate situation.
Sadly, you don't learn that just bc you turn 18.. it'll probably needs years of therapy. I root for her tho
do you know ow long her contract is i mean it started around 2014 and now its 2021 it couldnt possibly be so long right>|?
@@damianasuzette483 it is probably emotional pressure i assume!?
@@damianasuzette483 i don’t know the details of her contract but if she’s been gaslighted by sia then she probably wouldn’t want to loose their relationship. she also has a lot at stake if she came out publicly about not supporting sia’s decisions with the movie.
The relationship with gianna Martello isn’t odd because when you do dance every day , you will see your dance teacher a lot so gradually they become your second mum or your best friend
Plus, Maddie and Gianna both grew up at the same studio. Maddie probably began lessons around the time Gianna was in her late teens, so it makes sense that a sisterly bond formed between them.
She worked with sia every day, it’s the same thing
Yenelly no, it’s not,
especially when describing the relationship between the two. Gianna strictly seemed like she had a teacher/mentor relationship with not only Maddie, but all the other girls. Sia and the others seems to have a more complex relationship with Maddie and Maddie specifically. I’m not taking sides on who’s right and who’s wrong, but I think the relationship between Gianna and Maddie are different between the other adults and Maddie.
Mai Nguyen Yes, I agree. Gianna said that she thought as Maddie as her sister which isn’t weird because they grew up in the dance studio together. Sia and Maddie seem to have more of a mother daughter relationship which is a little strange.
Yes I had a gymnastics teacher that I saw a lot and she was only like 7 years older and I called her like a sister
Sia is a weird creep, but the "stay off the harvey weinstein plane' thing was a huge win.
it does show that she knew about harvey weinstein’s “behaviour” and “little girl parties” before it was public knowledge
@@melodiclogic9904 Yeah. I think most prominent people in hollywood probably know about cases of child abuse that the public hasnt been made aware of yet.
@@jellopackets3770 which is so messed up. it reminds me (obviously on a much, much, much, lesser scale) of when ellen was exposed on twitter for being mean to people and someone said “y’all are all finding this out now? everyone in LA knows about how shitty ellen is in person for years...”
i’m not one of those people that are like “hollywood is corrupt! we need to kill everyone and have a california cleansing!” but seriously the fbi needs to work a little harder when investigating these people
@@melodiclogic9904 Def. I hate that weirdo conspiracy theorists have started trying to make concern about pedophilia and abuse in hollywood their thing. People told jokes on stage about weinstein being gross YEARS before he got found out, like obviously child abusers are going to go into an industry where they can have enough power to make people do whatever they want and have access to a never ending supply chain of vulnerable women and children. We need to stop concern about child actors from becoming a conspiracy theorist topic that everyones scared to talk about because they'll sound like a qanon supporter.
Yeah, if that ever even happened. Sia's overacting on the savior gig.
Edit; One look at Weinstein's mug and you know he's a dead-eyed, vicious pervert , so I'm not doubting that. But I don't believe Sia protected Maddie from him because protecting someone doesn't usually involve constructing a narrative of helplessness via blabbing that person's so called vulnerabilities and deeply personal struggles to the whole world. That's what someone who wants to chum the waters does. Regardless, it's all dysfunctional as hell and really disturbing.
It is certainly concerning how if these women were replaced with men it’d be perceived as weird and pedophilic. However, the most concerning of this for me is that Maddie might not noticed if she were to be groomed. She’s been trained her whole childhood to chase validation from female figures, so if someone was it would worrying because she may only see validation and acceptance. I hope she stays safe from people like that.
Yes it worries me
Exactly what I was thinking
EXACTLY THANK YOU
Exactly!!
A proper role model would build her up, and make her confident in herself. They'd let her speak up for herself, not control her life and teaching her to be co-dependent.
The least creepy one and definitely the most normal is Maddie and Gianna’s relationship it’s normal to feel like someone you’ve known for years as a younger sister but not daughter
and not to metion someone that she had seen grown from age 5
Yeah, I feel like her relationship with Gianna is pretty normal, but it's sad that there's only one person that we've publicly seen have a normal and healthy relationship with her.
@@mollystringer6273 yes
Ehhhhh that tattoo of her teeth is really weirs
@@missyelliot6237 That isn't Gianna
Listen, I'm all for Sia preventing Maddie from getting on a plane with Harvey Weinstein. God knows what he could have done. But all the other stuff feels like grooming.
Who is that ?
@@valentinadelagarza8403 He's the producer that has been accused by many women for sexual assault. It's the case which created the me to movement.
@@AD-qq9bk thanks
Another thing.
It seems to me (im not a licensed psychologist, just a very self aware traumatized person) that Sia wasn't keeping Maddie off of the plane for her *safety*, but for 2 different reasons
A. So she would be praised for saving her because she's a *very clear* narcissist who only picked Maddie to 'save' and 'raise' (read: groom) because she was the star of the dance moms show, the Golden child, the sympathetic victim.
B. Sia didn't want Weinstein to ruin her *progress* with Maddie. She's well aware that Maddie was made entirely too vulnerable by the past abuse she suffered, so if Weinstein got her, he'd be able to do unspeakable things and it would become harder for sia to get that close again. I suspect she's just waiting for Maddie to turn 18.
I also see it as Sia bragging about saving Maddie from Weinstein
As I’m rewatching the seasons, Melissa did say she would do anything for her kids to get to the top. That’s very alarming and disturbing if you ask me.
almost like she’s living vicariously through them
Seems like Melissa is doing this for herself and not for her children
And sadly not only she said that, she actually did so.
On some level, I think maybe yes. But at the same time, the producers like to skew things.
Melissa absolutely snuck money out of the country for Abby. There's proof of it.
"I share my daughters with her".
God, Melissa, they are not objects, they are human beings! Things can be shared, people can't, because they don't belong to anyone.
Melissa has allowed all of these adults to come into her kids lives from such a young age and groom them, especially Maddie.
On Dance Moms, Melissa took them out of school so that Maddie would have more time to be in the dance studio.
She should’ve just let her kids be kids and encouraged them to build relationships with kids their own age instead of holding them to extreme standards to gain approval from older women.
YES. As I was watching this video I realized Maddie doesn't know any different, and I definitely believe what Sia said about Maddie having PTSD. I don't know if Maddie would be the same Maddie if she didn't always have an older figure she was looking up to. She bounces from one directly to another. Shame on Melissa for doing this to her kids.
Exactly and that's why I applaud Holly and Christi for letting there kids stay in school and do what made them happy and content until they were ready to go home school instead of being concerned about gaining approval from Abby.
I agree
well..maddie wanted to be homeschooled. but i see what you mean
maddie being homeschooled has nothing to do with her being unable to have friends her own age. homeschooling has absolutely no connection to anti social behavior or any negative peer relationship behavior. and have you forgotten she has her dance crew that are her friends to this day?
Everyone’s concerned with the ‘mother’ figures, I’m sitting here thinking how horrible Melissa must be as a mother to constantly be shoving her children into others arms so that she doesn’t have to be responsible
I agree that Melissa seems to be quite distant and careless but since Dance Moms is really heavily edited and people say she is actually really nice its hard to tell because she could be an amazing mom behind the scenes, but I guess we’ll never know.
I feel so bad for Lilliana. Imagine being a child who was given the opportunity to work with a famous person on a project (and also probably watched the success of Maddie who did the same thing) just to have your work, talent, and dedication ignored and unappreciated. Sia literally said after this that she never wanted to work with anyone else except Maddie which isn't subtle at all in regards to her feelings about Lilliana. Lilliana is so talented and I don't even understand how Sia could publicly say that. It's cruel and as someone with a similar career she should understand what words like that do to people, especially young children. That combined with the sleepovers and cuddles with Maddie does it for me. That's creepy as HELL...
Honeslty wasnt fair to her I would feel embarrassed
Yes ikr like it’s really creepy
also why is sia the godmother of maddie *and* kenzie? like literally she ONLY follows maddie on ig even though she also collabed with kenzie.
Honestly I never realised how creepy Sia's obsession with Maddie is
To be fair, Sia doesn’t seem all to respectful towards talented people unless they’re maddie.
Seems like something she has in common with abby 🤢
Maddie wore Sia’s bridal shower dress for a Jimmy Fallon interview? 🤨 what in the hell
It's so weird of Sia to just be airing a child's problems and mental struggles publicly like that tbh ://
LITERALLY. I dont think her problems should be publicized at ALL. BUT, if anyone were to talk about it, it should be Maddie herself. I think it was super odd that Sia went out of her way to get Maddie a "little therapist". That should be a discussion between Melissa and Maddie... not Sia.
I agree, it’s extremely inappropriate. No one should talk about another person’s health (physical or mental) period, much less publicly. It’s information that must be kept confidential.
Honestly only her relationship with Gia was healthy, they seem to be truly friends and see each other as SISTERS. Not as Parental and Child figures. When an adult is treating a child like that it’s honestly just gross. While it may not exactly be anything sexual. It’s still problematic and Maddie may have to limit her time and possible cut contact if things get worse once she’s a legal adult.
It’s definitely not unhealthy to have a parental figure in your life that isn’t your parents. It is, however, inappropriate to be cuddling in bed together. People keep saying it’s okay if you’re family. Even family members can be toxic!
Do you mean Sia?
@@stephen4681 I think they mean Gia as in Gianna XD
If sia or Maddie were a male everyone would think the relationship is extremely inappropriate (which it is)
Exactly...because it IS different
@@hungryhippo17 What?? Are you actually trying to justify this?
@@hungryhippo17 but how?
@@秋彦月島 they never tried to justify it, they just said it would be different
@@lilschills7001 It wouldn't, really.
Mackenzie was always trying to acquire these same things and seeking so much approval when everyone ignored her and went to Maddie for supposed “perfection”. The Ziegler kids have been through so much manipulation and sadness in their lives. This is just so sad.
The biggest problem is that Melissa let this all happen and encouraged it
I love your pfp! I'm subbing! ❤️
@Arkham Knight um, it does. 😂
@Arkham Knight oh, that's what you meant haha. Well, it's still rlly good imo
Melissa just lets this all happen like WHAT
In all honestly none of this would've happened if Nina Bonina Brown was Blac Chyna
Why are these women obsessed with Maddie? I never understood it. It's really scary.
I dont understand it too
I mean
How or
Why
The only thing i am obsessed with are cars
I could never be so to a person
Its weird
To me, she’s always given off a vibe of being “innocent and needing to be protected,” as well as very mature and constantly seeking for acceptance and approval.
Most children are either one way or the other - sweet and innocent but hard to connect with because they’re mentally still young (like they should be), or overly mature and skeptical with life and adults (like a lot of abused children).
She is a natural people pleaser and would do anything to get people who she’s close to to like her. With Abby, she was easy to manipulate because she was small and wanted to please Abby.
With Sia, she had a level of innocence from being a child, but she was also emotionally upset and mature because of her experiences with Abby.
Elder women liked her because they could easily manipulate her and parade her around as their “little star” and Maddie should be too sweet to say anything about it, even if it impacted her own mental health.
On top of that, she’s beautiful and talented - easy to show off.
Maddie is always in a good mood, works hard, polite, loves attention, always down for everything, very smart and talented.. the perfect daughter
*And beautiful..
I feel like the only actual healthy relationship that isn't obsessive is with Gianna. She is the only one who didnt see her as a daughter, but as a little sister.
vicarious success? I know some women like to use younger girls to live out their fantasies of success and push said kids hard into hyperfeminine, sometimes oversexualized positions. My personal theory is that they want to use those young kids as a self-proxy and in doing so put those kids into overly-adult positions that they (the abusers) want to be in themselves. (not that men dont do smthn like that too, but for dif reasons imo)
You predicted the controversy about Sia's film! Sia's responses to this have been so inappropriate and I'm definitely starting to see her weird fixation on Maddie.
100% yes! Since this whole music controversy and her frankly gross and heartless responses, I started paying more attention to what sia has been saying and all of a sudden this whole “maddie is my muse” thing started to feel more than just uncomfortable.
@@brodyannm3369
Definitely! And people keep trying to justify it by saying “oh but Sia’s her godmother” as if that makes what she’s doing ok
This is alarming and creepy. Whether it’s out of jealousy or obsession or something more sinister, it’s still all very inappropriate. Sometimes when young people have extreme talent, older artists swarm like vultures and try to control every aspect of their career. Mentorship can be good but this seems downright controlling
notice how their only obsessed with maddie and not kenzie
Maddie works with them and they're a lot closer. Kenzie has her own things going on. Sisters aren't joined at the hip.
@blue chimera Yeah I didn't even know Kenzie existed till this video
@@sweetpurpleunicorn77 but that's the thing sia is their godmother not a business partner
@@beep978 she's both with Maddie. Being a godmother is part of their personal lives. Being a business partner is more public.
@blue chimera the bond with Maddie is probably stronger since she saw and helped Maddie grow, and since the media wants more to know about that relationship, she refers to that more
Maddies quote: “But Tonya was very specific about how she loved my teeth so much.” ...That is WEIRD, people! And this grown woman is now walking around with a very visible tattoo of a child’s teeth on her arm. I get that Maddie might feel a connection with these women but I think that it’s weird how obsessed they are with a teenage girl they’re not related to. I hope it doesn’t end up hindering Maddie’s career down the road.
The child is also not her child just sayin
@@rh162 Ik it’s so weird
I can already imagine Sia manipulating Maddie by playing the savior, like: "you should be grateful, I saved you from Abby and I made you a superstar". Maddie shines by her own light and I really hope she's aware of it.
Also, this awkwardly reminds me 'The Neon Demon' movie. Everyone was obsessed with the girl...
I was just thinking of that movie
I wonder is Maddie is an empath/people pleaser, so narcissists are attracted to her and feel some kind of fullness from the love that an empath fills a toxic person with. Plus she's young and easy to manipulate
She’s definitely a people pleaser.
To me, she’s always given off a vibe of being “innocent and needing to be protected,” as well as very mature and constantly seeking for acceptance and approval.
Most children are either one way or the other - sweet and innocent but hard to connect with because they’re mentally still young (like they should be), or overly mature and skeptical with life and adults (like a lot of abused children).
She is a natural people pleaser and would do anything to get people who she’s close to to like her. With Abby, she was easy to manipulate because she was small and wanted to please Abby.
With Sia, she had a level of innocence from being a child, but she was also emotionally upset and mature because of her experiences with Abby.
Elder women liked her because they could easily manipulate her and parade her around as their “little star” and Maddie should be too sweet to say anything about it, even if it impacted her own mental health.
On top of that, she’s beautiful and talented - easy to show off.
@@pric4799 spot on
she's been groomed to be a people pleaser from birth. child performers are rewarded when they do their jobs and keep their mouths shut, which makes it so much easier to manipulate and abuse them without anyone finding out. the adults in her life have taught her that her worth comes from who she is as a product-a dancer, an actress, a pretty girl, a celebrity, etc. her own mother admits to repeatedly handing her off to the most famous person who's currently interested in her. i wouldn't be remotely surprised if she struggles with insecurity and feels like she has to perform for approval
@@p0lyxena
Certainly. Abby constantly overlooked her value as a person and pressured her to win over and over again, overlooking the fact that Maddie was going into panic attacks and was stressed out.
Abby even told her once that people only liked her because she won - that if she wasn’t a winner and if she didn’t dance, then she would be nothing. She told her that she disgraced the ALDC by losing to her own sister, Mackenzie, even though Mackenzie was also an ALDC member.
She also constantly overlooked how uncomfortable Maddie was about being put on a pedestal - Maddie would bite her nails, look down awkwardly, and nearly start to cry whenever Abby brought someone else down to bring her up.
It’s quite disgusting.
yeah abuser groom kids in a way that makes them easier to continue to abuse, and that means that a former victim is often more susceptible to being abused again bc they have all these taught behaviors that make them more appealing to new abusers
it's definitely very concerning. if these women were men then we all know the outrage that would happen
I called that out once and was actually attacked cause I was apparently accusing someone of behaving inappropriately with a child but I gave them a hypothetical situation. But the fact that if you reversed the roles people would consider it grooming says a lot imo
1000%.
@@kennyb1588 a woman cuddling in bed and sleeping in the same bed as a 17 year old at 40+ years is disgusting even if it's a woman.
@@ikramrafi6481 I agree very much I think any adult being friends with a child especially when the adult has the power to ruin the kid is wrong
exactly. especially sia, melissa “loves it when they snugggle together” and she slept over once a week? it sounds like melissa just lets whoever she thinks will excel her daughters career for fame/fortune groom her.
i don’t think sia is trying to present herself as Maddies mother figure i think it’s more sia is protective because she knows maddie in ways other people like the public don’t and i think she’s protective because she knows how much maddie has been through at such a young age, it’s a good thing maddie has an older role model she can look up to i don’t think it’s unhealthy
Sophie Prior yes exactly
a year ago, Sia stopped Maddie from getting on a plane with Harvey Weinstein just when the allegations about him were true.
Agree I think the relationahips she has with older female is ok sia is a great role model
But I mean I'd hope her actual mother would want to protect her too..right..
@@Chelsea.Stevie Of course I'm sure she would. But Sia is in the Hollywood scene, unlike Maddie's mom, so she sadly knows a lot more about the awful stuff that goes on behind the scenes.
I don't know what it is that draws them to Maddie but these women seem very unnaturally dependent on her. And it's sort of a forced codependency because it seems like Maddie is desperate to latch onto a mother figure because that's all she's known since she was a literal toddler.
If someone had my biggest insecurity tattooed permanently I would feel so awkward
right😭
Especially like a child’s teeth like if it was subtle like if someone was insecure about their looks tattooing a rose or something but TEETH??? No way
Lol furreal
I feel like some of these relationships are kind of weird. some of these women are obsessive and overstep boundaries that would definitely would cause outrage if they were men.
they aren’t men tho. no point in bringing that up.
@@angelnafeesa5332 this is such a double standard. Men or women engaging or doing such inappropriate still leave the same impact on a child’s mind. That is speaking from experience
As i see it Sia and Maddie do have a "mother and daughter" bond... Sia saw her grow all those years and also took care of her... It is a bit harder to have a "father and daughter" bond between 2 non relatives though.... The first one is plausible because I've felt it with my nanny, i almost grew up with her and she's like my second mother
@@dannykadyr1673 THIS!! Male, female, anything else - no matter who someone is anyone who harms a child deserves punishment!! I’ve heard and seen of too many cases of female teachers harming children and such, so yea. There is a double standard :’(
I think her boundaries were abused since she was a young child, her mother allowed it to happen in the dance studio her whole young life. Maddie doesn’t know what a healthy relationship is because that is what she grew up with. It is creepy to have relationships with those much older especially sleep overs.
As a family member of a person who has PTSD. Let me just say, Sia saying Maddie getting a therapist so she wont be crazy jokingly honestly outraged me. It doesn't matter if you are talking about PTSD or not, don't joke about mental health and call people with it crazy.
Honestly Sia recently admitted she “can’t do a project without Maddie” and I feel like everyone is waking up a bit to that obsession and I’m really thankful for this video for calling it so early
This makes me think that Maddie doesn’t have a super great relationship with Melissa, so she started turning to other people to provide that “motherly” relationship to her. Or maybe from the fact that Abby started using her at such a young age, she feels like all women figures should be overbearing. (Just my very psychological take on this.)
Sias relationship with Maddie is very Michael Jackson-ish, you know, no sexual abuse but definitely inappropriate
michael jackson wasn’t a child molester though-
@@unhealthynirvanafan888 that’s what they said. No sexual abuse but inappropriate
@@Michelle-hw4wj sorry, i misinterpreted.
it looks similar to my relationship with my ex-nanny. I almost grew up with her and she is like my second mother. Same with Sia, who saw Maddie and helped her grow. Yall should grow tf up and stop calling "gross" at every single bond between old and young person you see
You can't compare Michael Jackson to sia when it comes to talent, success, fame, popularity, and fortune he is on another level a level that sia will never be on and he is famous, popular, and successful in the real world not in the dancing world
If I were a mom I would never give permission or allow my child to be shared amongst the public especially when working professionally. You need to set boundaries and not over step them. When you cross the line, everything becomes confusing and blurry.
Quite honestly I don't see anything wrong with Maddie and Gia's relationship, and the only thing I saw concerning with Sia and Maddie's relationship was the cuddling and snuggling in bed. Also the nickname of muse is a little weird. I just think some of these people want to live vicariously through Maddie. However getting someone's teeth tattooed on your arm is very weird I must say.
Not that weird when you learn the reason behind it.
@@haileyparsons3844 what reason
Hailey Parsons I know the reason is that she wanted Maddie to embrace her teeth, but it is still very weird to get a child’s teeth tattooed on your arm regardless of the reasoning.
Yeah I think her relationship with Gia was super normal, they said its like a sisterly relationship. I think she was put in the video to highlight the difference between a healthy and almost toxic relationship.
I agree that a lot of these things I covered aren't super concerning when you look at each situation by itself. But when I saw all of these together, it raised plenty of concerns.
Am I the only one who thinks that the sentence “ I never wanted to do any thing without her. “ sounds kind of ... obsessive. I don’t think even biological parents feel this way towards their own kids.
I think that was in reference to artistic projects
@@nicklo98 yeah as in she always gets and protrays sias vision without sia hardly having to explain or creative direct
That was about projects like music videos
yeah that line was strange but i think she was only referring to projects like music videos
I think she’s talking about artistic creativity. She’s her muse. She inspires her, she’s a beautiful dancer and it’s inspiring
From what I understand it doesnt seem like Maddie had the most happy or stable homelife as her parents were going through a divorce. To be frank, Melissa was not the best role model so i wonder if these attachments to other influential women came about due to Maddie seeking that in her life - but yea i do see the potential that if these relationships fell apart it could be disasterous.
Sia would never disobey her
As much I agree with you I do think Melissa became a bit of a better mother in they’re later seasons
i think that melissa and maddie are both naive and too trustworthy.
“Especially considering the potential controversy that could arise from Sia’s new movie Music.”
Well that aged well
Maddie seems like she's been so manipulated her whole life:( it's creepy how adults that double her age get obsessed with her.
it's very disturbing how those older women acted and still act with a literal child/teenager
It's fine and all that Sia "saved" Maddie from getting on a plain with Weinstein, but this proves that she's known about the type of guy Weinstein was and said nothing for years. Think of how many other women she could have "saved" if she had spoken up or reported him...
Almost every big star in hollywood has known about weinstein for many many years. No one spoke out either because 1) they feared the repercussions they would face like not getting any film offers anymore or 2) they had a personal incident with him that they just weren't ready to share with the public or 3) there are bigger predators in the industry than Harvey and they accept it as a part of their job. Its unfortunately the cold truth of show business.
Reported him for what? Being creepy? Maybe she just had a feeling he wasn't safe. You can't report anything when it is just a feeling with no evidence.
Truuuee!💯👀 I just noticed this!
Based
Weinstein was never a secret, it just took a long time for someone to take action against him. It's not like Sia was the only celeb that knew about him.
this is terrifying. especially the "snuggling in the bed with maddie" EXCUSE ME WHAT
Take this with a grain of salt:
When Michael Jackson did this shit, folk tried to lock him up. Just sayin'.
Ik and he was innocent too the world was too cruel on him may he RIP ❤️
@@UnknownUser-yw8gg LOL okay you keep thinking that
@@VegemiteQueen1 dude I don’t gotta think I KNOW he’s innocent
Actually, he did that for years before the trial. Most people turn a blind eye to this shit until it explodes.
@@UnknownUser-yw8gg 🤢🤮
Im happy that Sia didnt let Maddie get on a plane with Weinstein, but having sleepovers with a kid, making Maddie worl ONLY with her and acting like her mom is very creepy and kinda scary
Acting like her mom is not creepy. Especially someone that can't have children herself
it's almost as if she didn't want someone ELSE to have her 🤢
She left one Abby and got another
Some Time ago I read about a young woman who was 18 and wanted to model (I think it was modeling or acting) and the adult who would have been like her modelling manager told her to come to his house (she could stay there, so she didn't have to travel back home and come back again the next day) This woman trusted that person, and he raped her that night.
Regarding that experience, I think that maby (if) Sia is a good person and knows how many creeps and bad people are out there who could manipulate and abuse her, she would have her only work with her - so a thing like described earlier woudln't be happening to Maddie.
Yes the relationship between them is a bit weird for outstanders. I can only tell you that I work with kids and some are really lovely and you start liking them like they are your little sister or brother. Especially when I take care of a toddler or a baby, I kind of get that feeling of wanting to protect it. Also if kids like you, they will (on their own) come and hug you, or snuggle. Personally I am an onlychild, I never had siblings, so I appreciate beeing able to spend time with them and be a rolemodel for them, be a listener when they need someone to listen, and play games with them (I like uno cardgame most) if they are bored. But well I can't speak for other people. So yes Maddies relationships with older people seem weird, but I don't know any of them personally.
something about sia cuddling in bed with maddie and maddie sleeping over with her once a week just doesn’t sit right w me
💯
Because when this was Michael Jackson and Macaulay Culkin it was obvious that it was weird. Takes a second to realize it’s the same thing
It’s so weird i can’t think of another example like theirs that is normal 😬 its also super sketch that she didn’t even want to meet that other little girl in her music video
I mean it sounds concerning
I think people forget women can be predators too.
it was sick in dance moms how i saw that maddie LIVED for abby's praise. she made her whole entire life revolve around abby, and pleasing abby. the way that she freaked out when she forgot her solo bc abby would be mad at her, or how after every solo she would go up to abby hoping for praise and affection is grooming. abby made herself the most influential person in maddie's life, and made maddie worship her, worship pleasing her. sickening.
The snuggling is weird. Melissa shouldn’t be plastering that all over the place. I had to really think about why I think it’s such a red flag. I wouldn’t think anything of a super close aunt and niece pair. But Sia and Maddie started with a professional relationship. Sia pays Maddie on a regular basis. Let that sink in.
I was closer to my great aunty than almost anybody growing up. She would take me for special weekends and on school holidays and just make me feel so loved. We NEVER 'snuggled' in bed. The closest thing would be a cuddle on the couch while watching tv or a movie (usually the horse or nutcracker scenes from Fantasia) and that was when I was VERY young. She was an affectionate woman and I was a child with no boundaries. So the 'snuggling' is an ENORMOUS red flag to me.
I can imagine teen girls 'snuggling' when one needs support badly, but not just.. for fun? That's not normal.
@@VegemiteQueen1 exactly, I can't say for sure since I don't have such a close bond with adults, but I can never imagine milyself snuggling with any of them. Even if we were super close
@Monet Victor Did you....not read the comment? They aren't family, Sia employs Maddie. That's snuggling in the bed with your boss not your family.
it was creepy that she may sleep in the same bed. Sia treats Maddie like a daughter because she has no children until recently in may of 2019. It is good though she kept her away from Harvey Winstein.
Wait.... Sia has a kid now?
Claire Hudson Yes, I think she adopted two sons.
Claire Hudson she adopted two black sons that were aging out of the foster care system. She saved them from lifelong PTSD
Laura ohhhhh I didn’t know. Thanks for telling me
Ok sleeping bags are that close to each other
Sia can't be like a mother figure to Maddie. There is a pretty clear power dynamic there that would never exist between a mother and daughter - Sia has a huge amount of control over Maddie's career. Creating roles for Maddie to keep her 'safe' seems weird and unsustainable. ...although Sia might take a step back now that Maddie isn't a child anymore..?
@Panda Pup is muse not an inspiration?
I would like to leave my account here: when I was a child, I was a prodigy in some areas, and I was notable among other children. This led me to be friends with some adults and learn from them, but I felt a little uncomfortable as I saw adults as authorities. I've also noticed that other children saw the different treatment I received. In my case, even though my parents were busy and neglectful in some ways, I didn't want another mother figure but my mother. I don't know if Melissa was a present mother, but she seems to be. What makes people want to "adopt" Maddie is that she has always been a polite, obedient, intelligent, and caring girl. It's the kind of child every mother wants to have. That is, when people see the peaceful way she acts, coupled with her vulnerability as a child, they take her as a daughter. Looking at Maddie's side, it's easy to accept other people as your "mothers" when they're willing to give you the constant approval you seek.
Abby & Maddie and Sia & Maddie's relationships are pretty identical. The difference being we saw what Abby was doing. We only hear stories about Sia & Maddie. There aren't any cameras following them around to showcase it. So obviously if you're telling someone a story about yourself you're gonna only showcase the parts you think are good. I think that's why some people have blinders on and don't see Sia & Maddie as toxic. Because they only tell us the narrative from one POV.
Sashay 94 exactly they’re both creepy and toxic in different ways🤷🏽♀️
100% it is so strange that Melissa allows these people to have such controlling relationships with her daughters.
Sia talks about Abby having traumatised Maddie, but does the same thing in private.
She is obsessed with Maddie the same way Abby was.
It is not normal at all that she is snuggling with her in bed. Who knows what Sia is really doing to Maddie?
She definitely has a saviour complex, the way she always publicly talks about Abby abusing Maddie, and claiming it was her idea to get her therapy, it was her idea not to let her go on a plane with Weinstein, etc... but she doesn’t publicly address that she is literally sharing a bed with her.
It's startling how quickly Maddie jumped from her mentor/mentee relationship with Abby to a similar one with Sia. While I personally believe that Sia treats Maddie with more respect and kindness than Abby did, the speed and intensity of their relationship is not normal at all.
@@SG-ij5in I think yall are making assumptions. None of us know what goes on behind camera. I'm pretty sure if maddie is uncomfortable with being around sia, they would no longer be together.
I think Sia is just as toxic as Abby, but isn't as mean or nasty. She is fine with favouritism like Abby, given they way Lillianna was treated.
Sis has an obsession with Maddie and it’s clearly unhealthy. Yes, she may be a good mother figure but she is NOT. Maddie’s mom.
@Panda Pup not really because either ways Maddie was the one that said sia was like a mother to her
I wonder how it makes Maddie feel when a person has a permanent tattoo of her teeth that she has been insecure and bullied for as a child
she probably thinks that it’s normal
Obviously Maddie was aware of it. I think it's a sweet gesture. It's not like the woman was a creepy stranger or anything. She was trying to show Maddie that her teeth are fine the way they are/were. It's creepy but I dont think she had evil or gross intentions
Broadway Butterfly but she has someone else’s teeth permanently printed on their skin ....
I love the relationship Gia has with all the girls, she's a mentor and always there for the girls, but not to take advantage of them.
Tbh giannas and maddies Relationship were the most normal because it’s pretty weird to have a like 40 year old women cuddling with a minor that’s really strange
Hmm I guess so but I cuddle with my mom and friends... And if sia is like her best friend I don't find that part weird. I find sia broadcasting maddies ptsd more alarming
@@isabellemillet4673 yh but the age difference between her and someone that isn't even related by blood 😬
@@isabellemillet4673 The point people keep mentioning that is worth really noting is that Sia is Maddie's boss. They have a professional working relationship, so making it that personal is extremely abnormal to say the least.