Hi Roger love your plumbing videos I ran a heating contractors for 30 years in south London and always dealing with flow and pressure problems particularly in Balham and Brixton notorious for low pressures sometimes only 1 bar These accumulators solved many problems for me. One add on tip for you, where even one of these devices would improve but not completely, solve a problem, is to fit balancing valves on the supplies to the individual outlets (just a gate valve with the handle removed) Then similarly to balancing radiators, you can restrict restrict the greedy to favour the needy I used to find it was always the showers, usually at the higher parts of the house, that would suffer to some extent sometimes even after a booster. The combination of booster and balancing was needed on some of the toughest nuts I had to crack with very demanding clients in these expensive areas…..
Your mentioning of the important terms (flow rate and static pressure) as well as their description is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. You are the first plumber who shows a sound understanding of his trade (profession really) I have ever come across.
Brilliant! Thank you for sharing this video! Simple, Clear & Practical with a lot of well defined valuable experience! You sound like my late father who was a carpenter by trade with plumbing experience! I lost him a few years ago at the age of 94 years! Thank you again and greetings from Madang, Papua New Guinea!
High end new builds with multiple bath facilities will of course come with all this factored in and kitted out, but of course existing older housing stock can experience issues over time as they put in attic extensions, en suites, and additional wet rooms, so this information is great for people to know.
Your mentioning of the important terms (flow rate and static pressure) as well as their description is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. You are the first plumber who shows a sound understanding of his trade (profession really) I have ever come across.
Hi just a quick comment, being a building service engineer, I noticed you incoming mains at the start of the video,that your strainer should be positioned on the horizontal, with the filter facing downwards, or on the vertical with the flow going downwards, but never facing upwards as its installed - Im sure manufacturer installation guidance will verify this -see Hattersley valves as a guide. Apart from that, excellent videos and tips. You certainly have trade experience and it shows in your excellent videos and trademanship.
Hi Roger. Thanks for your comment. The AccuBoost 450L will weigh 281kg when filled. Depending where the unit is stored, some reinforcement work may need to be done.
@@jgregory935 The vessel size refers to the total volume e.g. 450L, but this is split almost 50:50 air to water. The air is needed to hold the water under pressure. Thanks
Hi Roger Thanks for explaining how these boosters work and the pump. The way you explained in every detail in depth and not only that and you went further to explain how to install it. This is the best of the best videos I have seen then other people's videos.
No issues with water flow and static pressure here, static pressure is between 8,5 and 9,5 bar which is quite high. A pressure regulator is needed to bring it down to 4 bar in the house. For the garden I do have a 22mm pipe run of before the pressure regulator, the tap on that pipe fills a bucket in 10 seconds, so about 50l / min. But there is another advantage to the accumulator, that's if the water main supply fails. There is enough water in the accumulator to get taps and toilets going for quite a time.
It’s usually good practice to take a flow rate from a non restricted tap such as an outside tap ….most kitchen taps / basin taps tend to have reduced flow rates these days! Good video roger
Hi Roger, accumulators have been in use for many years in commercial buildings - hotels, pubs, schools and so on. They are very effective. Love all your videos, and opinions!
I had the same issue - a 15mm main but just over 3 bar pressure. Swapped the cold tank in the loft for 2 x 250L Stuart Turner horizontal vessels. It made a huge difference. Two points to note though: 1. you need to check the pressure at the tank and adjust the air pressure in the bladder accordingly (from memory i think it was about one bar lower than the water pressure. 2. The stored water warms up over time so drinking water isn't as cold. I would recommend fitting a supply to a tap with a non return valve before the accumulators if possible, assuming you've got the pressure and reasonable flow for it.
Hi. Thanks for your comment. You only need to adjust the pressure on unpumped models, but the amount you need to set it by varies depending on the manufacturer so always check the literature. Thanks
A side problem you can create with a pumped unit is drawing down “mains” causing other users of “main” to completey lose pressure. Check with water system operator befor installing.
Water regulations state that only 12ltrs per min can be drawn out of the mains, and this is what the manufacturers work with. The get around is that if you “Store” the water with a accumulator, break tanks, cold water storage tank. You can boost it to what ever you want
The issue (as stated) is that the water main connection was not replaced properly. We upgraded from 1/2” lead to 25mm MDPE and went from about 15l/m to over 50 L/m on our 3.5bar supply (identical pressure before and after as expected). I could run a shower at 15, a garden hose at over 20 with the kitchen tap also running more than a 20l weir cup could handle). Something is definitely wrong that they need additional kit in this house.
I would also love to know what the flow rate is straight out of their MDPE main before the restrictive stop cock, NRV, filter and PRV. I’d be willing to bet it was a lot higher than after.
I have sufficient flow and pressure in the house, but since refitting the kitchen and installing a SureStop to make turning the mains off (we had a burst and my wife couldn't turn the stop tap off) the drop in flow is noticeable when 2 or more taps are turned on. This doesn't cause a problem even with the showers so it's not worth changing anything at the moment. What is interesting is that despite the SureStop being 22mm fitting the bore inside is the same as the 15mm version. Would you consider making a video on the pros and cons of these devices? There is no doubt they are useful in an emergency and where the stop tap is difficult to reach (aren't they all) but given that any restriction on the size of the bore will affect flow rate I think SureStop need to change their product.
Replace the word Surestop with Nightmare! Get rid of it ASAP. I remove them every day of the week. Not only can they reduce your pressure, they are a major source of leaks themselves as they are water pressure operated as you know. As well as that , it will probably not work at all after a few years so don't rely on it. Tip, you may need to turn 2 taps on to get it to kick in. Sorry for the bad news but make sure you have an alternative way to turn water off . 👍
@@kevinmullin4504 Thanks Kevin. I am just a home owner and so obviously only see one rather than many. I have only had it for just over a year and I do test it every now and then. I did fit a new stop cock with the SureStop to make sure that I had a more permanent way of isolating the water supply because I read that they should not be relied upon for extended periods. Interestingly I have spoken to a couple of plumbers (mainly on the heating side) who they they have never been asked to fit one
Very informative. My old Central heating system needs a refresh and the flow is lowish. Great to know about these and I will get the flow and pressure tested to help decide on the best solution for this house. Remove the tanks and Combi seems like a good option now. Cheers Roger
I tried to fix this problem a while back. Had the utilities company round several times, replaced the small bore pipework from the street stop cock to my house etc. The guy from the utilities (after I said I was going to have to fit a pump) said "shouldn't have to fit a pump, it's regulated up the street as the flow and pressure are too high" the never adjusted it for me but its just annoying that the are throttling in for a reason I haven't figured out yet. I still havent installed a pump and just struggled on...
Hi Nathan, the utility provider are required to provide you with around 9l/min to the boundary, however depending on the length of pipe run and the size of the property a pump could be the solution to poor flow you are experiencing. To find out which pump would best suit your system, please take a look at our product selector. www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/product-selector
Fitted a few of these and they are a good idea. Biggest issue with this install is that he has fitted after the pressure reducer, if fitted before then you put more water in the vessel under a higher pressure making it last longer. Also with a accumulator when it is depleted you go back to mains, with a break tank you loose water untill refilled These use to be TWS before Stuart turner bought them out.
Hi Jamie, Thanks for your comment. The AccuBoost accumulator needs to be installed after the PRV to protect the vessel from fluctuations in mains pressure which could damage the bladder. Only unpumped accumulators would revert to the mains once depleted. When a pumped unit is depleted, the pump will continue to run to deliver a minimum of 12L/min.
@@SalamanderPumps good clarification. My fitter got hung up on achieving 3 bar on the prv until I pointed out it was there to protect the pump and vessel and we want it relatively low.
Here’s a useful tip: Rotate the stopcock on and off twice a year to keep it free. So many are boxed in and totally inaccessible which is why they seize up.
Great information - Thankyou! Also reminds me of my disappointment when replacing our bathroom. Knowing we had crap water pressure, I very carefully replaced the hot piping to the bath in 22mm all the way - even using formed bends to reduce resistance - then unpacked the new tap to find the risers had pathetic 8mm bores!!
I've had decreasing water flow for years. I fixed it by turning my stopcock off and fully back on. Dirty water then came out of my kitchen tap and the flow rate was as it should be. I had to use a stopcock key with socket and socket wrench to move my seized stopcock key.
@@SkillBuilder Yes it was in the back of my mind whilst doing it. I just applied pressure until it just gave way. All fixed now and looking forward to my shower later.
Maybe you have an answer to the problem in my house in Thailand. 1. It takes almost a week to fill my 50m3 swimming pool. 2. I live on an estate with an undersized main and most houses have a pump and tank, so at peak times we have almost no water. Certainly the shower won't work and we only have a bungalow. 3. We don't have these products here and I found a Mitsubishi WP105 that may solve my problem. 4. If I use a tank that won't solve the filling my pool problem as when the tank is empty I am back to mains flow. 5. Due to the weather, the pool needs filling every four-six months so a week to do it is a pain. Any pointers would be helpful as no one in Thailand can.
If the cylinder is not changing its water very much doesn't that constitute a dead leg? A potential legionella breeding ground if the temperature is nkt kept below 20`C.
Really informative for me thanks! I moved into a house and have what I think is a similar unpumped device in my loft. It only supplies 2 showers and the hot water.
Great video, been considering an accumulator after changing pumps on a tank system (original pump 20 years ago is spec'd less than current pump and the new one can't keep up with 90% of the house now and water blaster sure when under pressure) Technology gets better but not always production.
Just had a new main moled in for £1100, 3 small holes dug wouldnt even know it's been done. "pressure" issues sorted (well, no change in pressure but flow rate vastly improved). Permanent no maintenance solution worth looking in to.
Hi Roger, I had a dripping tap in my bathroom and a plumber fixed it but he didn't change the cartridges or seat and springs in the taps. But, the taps did stop dripping. After the plumber left I turned on the taps and discovered that the water pressure in both the cold and hot water taps had noticeably decreased. The pressure is okay but it's not what it was. The water pressure in the second bathroom taps is still strong, the same as it always is. The pressure has only decreased in the bathroom that the plumber worked on. I'm writing to you becasue I can't figure out what the plumber could have done to reduce the water pressure in both the hot and cold taps. Can you think of something he might have done to reduce the pressure? Like I said, he didn't replace the cartridges. Also, I made sure that the water valves under the sink were fully turned to the open position so I know that they are not reducing the amount of flow that I had before the plumber fixed the dripping tap.
This is tricky because the water pressure is not the flow rate so he would have had to put a pressure reduction in there . If he didn't reduce the flow under the basin he may have put a another rubber washer in the bottom of the cartridge.
I think this is great, especially if rural. However maybe add some videos with innovation re gray water recovery, rain water capture, and anything that gives a shower user how much water they have used.
.A new faucet (a dual spray switch tap that allows to switch between a strong shower setting, and normal stream setting) is installed downstairs. Whenever the downstair neighbor switches to strong flow setting I hear a high pitched water stream noise in my kitchen. The below neighbor uses the high flow setting quite often in the day, and it affects my ears as I have an ear condition called tinnitus. But it's loud enough that even someone without tinnitus would find it annoying (the nails against chalkboard type of sound)..why the noise is coming, Really appreciate any help, thank you!
My problem: in the upper floor of house, water comes well of the shower but barely a drop comes out of sink next to it in the same bathroom. Same for a second restroom in the same floor (Flow to toilet siphon is good but barely a drop coming off at the sink to wash hand!). Where could my problem be and I though may be air lock, thus several times cut the water from house main shut off valve in yard and re started with no avid.
😂😂… this is why plumbers charge an arm and a leg when you call them…. Ask them to increase water pressure and they build you a new extension to your house
I have a new problem after fitting a new kitchen sink mixer tap. The hot flow is extremely slow. I followed the fitting instructions to the T & the exchange was successful with the addition of a couple of stop taps & filters positioned correctly but as for the hot flow, well its just shocking. In fact when both hot & cold are on together its probably worse. Like Roger said in the video, is it just how new mixer taps are?
Where in the UK do you see 4 bar in the street?! Thames Water guarantee only 1 bar and can legally drop it to 0.85 without notice. It's so bad that they even dropped the requirement for a break tank....yes you can directly pump a TWA main!
Robin left to start his own channel, based on him, which we helped him set up. He is doing O.K so there is no compelling reason for him to dilute that by doing stuff with us.
Hi Peter, to check the pre-charged pressure in the vessel, isolate the electrics and mains supply, empty the vessel and use a pressure gauge attached to the Schrader valve on top of the vessel. To check the current PSI inside the vessel, there would be no requirement to drain it down. Thanks.
What can you do with variable pressure. Sometimes its so high the next door neighbour turning on and off can rattle the pipes, other times it's much lower and full is just above a trickle...
It seems that you are on a shared main and if the neighbour is using it you don't get enough. Pressure is not the same as flow. You can increase the flow to 12 lts per minute with a pump which fits on the mains inside the house. Measure how much you are getting at best and worst. It is also worth asking your water supplier. I have sometimes discovered a stopcock that was just about open. I love thos jobs.
@@SkillBuilder I missed a piece of specific information that invalidate this. I have the main water cut off reduced to prevent water ram in the house. I still get very high pressure, but as you say pressure and flow are different. There are obviously differences in the external feed that are translated through a partially closed valve. I always thought either a water ram protection device or a large tank to provide controlled pressure. Both have their disadvantages.
The mains and the stopcock are under my kitchen sink. Could I run the mains pipe up into my attic (from ground floor, 1st floor to loft) and still benefit from the bladder version or even the pumped ? I will check out their site. What a great solution. I love the bladder cylinder, GENIUS !
Yes it doesn't matter where you put it on the system but you lose a little head pressure if it is high up. You can put them in a shed outside if you have room.
Hi Lee, pumped models should ideally be connected directly after the stop cock. Unpumped models can be located anywhere in the property however if in a shed make sure its protected from frost etc.
Thanks for the great info. I think I may have a solution to our problem with our water flow. Personally, I think these should be installed in all homes during the build process. Thanks, Guv'
@@SkillBuilder I normally fit strainers the other way so the muck caught on the inside. Or it’s scraped off into the pipe when it’s removed. I may be looking at it wrong,
Thank you for you video's' my question is, can I have a unvented cylinder connected directly to my combi boiler to give me constant hot water just by opening the taps, without using a switch to wait for the cylinder to heat the water. If yes does it use a lot of electricity to work. Thank you
Hi there. I live in Los Angeles California. Can you recommend a plumber in my area who can install that unit for me. Currently I have Groundfos EZ boost in my house for very long time and that model was discontinued and I can’t find anyone to service the unit. I will love to replace the unit before it stops working completely. Thank you !
Bro how about hot water faucet become cold after few minutes?it's called mixing issue? How can solved this issue? Can you help me? Appreciate it thank you
Bought this house a decade ago. Plumbed by a plumber with no common sense. Good street mains pressure on a 3/4 inch supply. Most houses here reduce the 3/4 to a 1/2 for interior supply by putting in a 3/4 x 1/2 x1/2 tee at the entrance, to feed an outside hose bib at what is also a convenient location. That allows garden watering without reducing inside pressure, because the 3/4 carries about twice volume as a 1/2. This guy reduced to 1/2 at entrance, then ran about 20 ft of 1/2 to a 1/2 tee to feed an outside bib in a very inconvenient location. Also reduces inside flow when watering! Used much more pipe than needed just to make things worse. 50 year old job, so the plumber is too old to ask "what were you thinking?"
That unpumped unit bladder will lose pressure over time. Does the unit have a Schrader valve and can it be repressured with a compressor and what is the pressure. Thanks Roger, I might pursue this.
Just wondering if you could help , our down stairs bathroom toilet has water to the sinks but the toilet has no water it just stopped, I’ve checked the on/off valve and there’s no water pressure there, this pipe goes in the floor, and after that I’ve no idea please if you could help it would be greatly appreciated
How have you tested the on/off valve? It is unlikely that the pipe has suddenly blocked. Often we find a bit of debris has washed into the filter, some need cleaning out twice a year, especially if there are old iron pipes in the mix.
Great piece of kit. What do you think the life if the bladder will be, given the short life issues with the bladders in expansion vessels of unvented cylinders?
I am ot sure but the water is cold so maybe better than a central heating epdm membrane. Having said that, failure of the expansions vessel is often assumed and not confirmed, I have found many so called faulty ones perfectly ok. Sometimes it is just the schraer valve.
@@SkillBuilder I had one of these at my home in the US. We were on a well and had one of these systems to maintain pressure... The one I had was still running perfectly 10 years after installation.
Thank you for your comment. The AccuBoost accumulator has a “water on bag” type bladder so there is minimal stress applied to the bladder which means it should last a long time. In the unlikely event that there is a problem with the bladder, it is possible to replace the bladder.
Hi Elliott, there's definitely an application for using the AccuBoost to supply a combi boiler or an unvented system. Please take some time to look at page 4 of our installation information on the following link. www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/uploads/AccuBoost%20Installation%20Guide%20(Jul%2022).pdf
Can you add a boost tank after the water softener of a well pump? In otherwords, store clean water not directly from the well, did the pressure of the well tank affect it? My problem is when there is a power outage I loose power to the well pump and no water at the house. Do you recommend adding a check valve where the boost tank is connected?
There is a check valve required on the incoming main from the well. A large Boost tank will give you approxiamately half its capacity in water. I drain my Boost by turning off the incoming main and letting the tank deplete under its own compression power. Half the tank is water the other half is air and the air will push all the water out of the tank as it is used.
Will this work with well? I have to filter sediment out before it gets to that tank? I have 5-10 gpm at the garden hose. I want to pump it into my home and run my home.
Thank you for your video. Please tell me how much it cost me to fixed it. Recently plumber charged me £80 just to change two washer. Did i paid him too much? Fixing water pressure how much do i have to pay an arms and the legs?
Hi Roger, my water pressure has dropped dramatically…most notable is the garden hose ,it use to be able to stand 3 metre from where you wanted to water…now it is less than metre..any ideas🤔
Hi - sorry but I can’t see how 4 bar pressure delivers only 10l per minute, unless the pipework is partially blocked. Has a flow test at the property meter been done? I get 15l per min with just 1.8 bar.
static pressure means nothing. You can get 8 bar on a 6mm pipe but it won't give you a decent flow rate. The taps are often restricted to something like that.
Interesting concept & a good idea, but after having a burst pipe last year, large Water tanks & flexible pipes would make me anxious every time I went out.
Good video. We have 2.5 bar coming into the house but only about 12 l/min of flow. I understand that 2.5 bar drops 0.5 bar when you go up a floor to the shower and another 0.5 bar if we add a water softener. So think an accumulator is a decent option to go in the loft. Is it likely to need a pump? Are the pumps noisy and how often do they kick in?
@@SkillBuilder I saw another video where they had a pump that essentially "charged" the accumulator but didn't kick in every time an outlet was opened. Have you seen this?
Hey roger! Love your videos ! Just wondering what you would recommend for a house that has a decent flow rate and decent presssure…. But with a Harvey arc water softener which seems to completely sap all water pressure and flow rate. ( I had a big unvented cylinder and system boiler installed to avoid the rubbish shower when someone runs the kitchen tap like on our old combi system) and the water softener seems to have negated all my benefits !
My water softener did the same. It basically ran through washing machine valves and 15mm pipe work, with something like 8mm internal diamer washing machine hoses which saped the flow rate. I upgraded my 15mm to 22mm pipe work, full bore iso valves (instead of washing machine valves)and the largest diameter flexi hoses (tap tails) I could (22mm to 3/4 bsp, with something like 13mm diameter). Minimised 90 degree turns also. Now, no issues at all.
How would you improve pressure in a 4th floor one bed flat, electric shower won't run hot before 6.30am, then after 6.30 it kicks in, driving me mad any suggestions?? Thanks 👍
The first thing people should do is contact their regional water company , here in the north west United utilities will always prove to the property’s boundary if the issue is on public they will renew Pipework or connection for free
That is standard across the country and the minimum pressure is 0.7 bar at the stopcock and you should be able to fill a 2 litre bottle in less than 13 seconds. which equates to around 9 litres per minute. That is not a lot for a shower.
Is weight an issue due to the floor failing? I could see a 120 liter unit weighing at 250 kilos 300 lb, might even be considered a live load as it fills and empties over and over. Is that the 450 liter?
Morning. Thanks for your comment. The AccuBoost 450L will weigh 281kg when filled, and the 120L weighs 132kg when filled. Depending where the unit is stored, some reinforcement work may need to be done.
Hi Roger love your plumbing videos
I ran a heating contractors for 30 years in south London and always dealing with flow and pressure problems particularly in Balham and Brixton notorious for low pressures sometimes only 1 bar
These accumulators solved many problems for me. One add on tip for you, where even one of these devices would improve but not completely, solve a problem, is to fit balancing valves on the supplies to the individual outlets (just a gate valve with the handle removed)
Then similarly to balancing radiators, you can restrict restrict the greedy to favour the needy
I used to find it was always the showers, usually at the higher parts of the house, that would suffer to some extent sometimes even after a booster. The combination of booster and balancing was needed on some of the toughest nuts I had to crack with very demanding clients in these expensive areas…..
Thanks Mark that is a good tip
Your mentioning of the important terms (flow rate and static pressure) as well as their description is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. You are the first plumber who shows a sound understanding of his trade (profession really) I have ever come across.
Professional plumber .? ( Busi ness man ?)Any way His idea is well come. our house pipe line must able to with Stand high pressure.
Brilliant! Thank you for sharing this video! Simple, Clear & Practical with a lot of well defined valuable experience! You sound like my late father who was a carpenter by trade with plumbing experience! I lost him a few years ago at the age of 94 years! Thank you again and greetings from Madang, Papua New Guinea!
High end new builds with multiple bath facilities will of course come with all this factored in and kitted out, but of course existing older housing stock can experience issues over time as they put in attic extensions, en suites, and additional wet rooms, so this information is great for people to know.
Your mentioning of the important terms (flow rate and static pressure) as well as their description is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. You are the first plumber who shows a sound understanding of his trade (profession really) I have ever come across.
Hi just a quick comment, being a building service engineer, I noticed you incoming mains at the start of the video,that your strainer should be positioned on the horizontal, with the filter facing downwards, or on the vertical with the flow going downwards, but never facing upwards as its installed - Im sure manufacturer installation guidance will verify this -see Hattersley valves as a guide. Apart from that, excellent videos and tips. You certainly have trade experience and it shows in your excellent videos and trademanship.
Hi Graham. I think you are right but I just followed the arrows, I hope. I will check it and get back to you.
Good spot Graham, was just thinking the same myself.
Strainer won’t catch much facing that way!
That 450 litre tank will weigh nearly half a tonne when full so take care where it's sited - a wooden floor may not like the extra load !
Hi Roger. Thanks for your comment. The AccuBoost 450L will weigh 281kg when filled. Depending where the unit is stored, some reinforcement work may need to be done.
Turns out that there 450L does not relate to water stored rather vessel/cylinder size.
As half the volume is taken up with the bladder.
Its not 450litre water stored just volume.
@@jgregory935 The vessel size refers to the total volume e.g. 450L, but this is split almost 50:50 air to water. The air is needed to hold the water under pressure. Thanks
@@SalamanderPumps shrinkflasion at its best.
Hi Roger
Thanks for explaining how these boosters work and the pump. The way you explained in every detail in depth and not only that and you went further to explain how to install it.
This is the best of the best videos I have seen then other people's videos.
No issues with water flow and static pressure here, static pressure is between 8,5 and 9,5 bar which is quite high.
A pressure regulator is needed to bring it down to 4 bar in the house.
For the garden I do have a 22mm pipe run of before the pressure regulator, the tap on that pipe fills a bucket in 10 seconds, so about 50l / min.
But there is another advantage to the accumulator, that's if the water main supply fails. There is enough water in the accumulator to get taps and toilets going for quite a time.
It’s usually good practice to take a flow rate from a non restricted tap such as an outside tap ….most kitchen taps / basin taps tend to have reduced flow rates these days! Good video roger
Hi Roger, accumulators have been in use for many years in commercial buildings - hotels, pubs, schools and so on. They are very effective. Love all your videos, and opinions!
Thanks for sharing
I had the same issue - a 15mm main but just over 3 bar pressure. Swapped the cold tank in the loft for 2 x 250L Stuart Turner horizontal vessels. It made a huge difference. Two points to note though:
1. you need to check the pressure at the tank and adjust the air pressure in the bladder accordingly (from memory i think it was about one bar lower than the water pressure.
2. The stored water warms up over time so drinking water isn't as cold. I would recommend fitting a supply to a tap with a non return valve before the accumulators if possible, assuming you've got the pressure and reasonable flow for it.
Hi. Thanks for your comment. You only need to adjust the pressure on unpumped models, but the amount you need to set it by varies depending on the manufacturer so always check the literature. Thanks
A side problem you can create with a pumped unit is drawing down “mains” causing other users of “main” to completey lose pressure. Check with water system operator befor installing.
That is why the pump is limited to 12 ltrs per minute
@@paul_my_plumbs_uk nice....{not}
Water regulations state that only 12ltrs per min can be drawn out of the mains, and this is what the manufacturers work with.
The get around is that if you “Store” the water with a accumulator, break tanks, cold water storage tank. You can boost it to what ever you want
@@jamiefirbank5747 Nowt wrong with that... unless everyone does it at the same time lol... unlikely but hey ho. 😏
The issue (as stated) is that the water main connection was not replaced properly. We upgraded from 1/2” lead to 25mm MDPE and went from about 15l/m to over 50 L/m on our 3.5bar supply (identical pressure before and after as expected). I could run a shower at 15, a garden hose at over 20 with the kitchen tap also running more than a 20l weir cup could handle). Something is definitely wrong that they need additional kit in this house.
I would also love to know what the flow rate is straight out of their MDPE main before the restrictive stop cock, NRV, filter and PRV. I’d be willing to bet it was a lot higher than after.
Top marks - brilliant explanation throughout
I have sufficient flow and pressure in the house, but since refitting the kitchen and installing a SureStop to make turning the mains off (we had a burst and my wife couldn't turn the stop tap off) the drop in flow is noticeable when 2 or more taps are turned on. This doesn't cause a problem even with the showers so it's not worth changing anything at the moment. What is interesting is that despite the SureStop being 22mm fitting the bore inside is the same as the 15mm version. Would you consider making a video on the pros and cons of these devices? There is no doubt they are useful in an emergency and where the stop tap is difficult to reach (aren't they all) but given that any restriction on the size of the bore will affect flow rate I think SureStop need to change their product.
I also have a SureStop and have had some flow issues - would too like to see a video on this
Replace the word Surestop with Nightmare! Get rid of it ASAP. I remove them every day of the week. Not only can they reduce your pressure, they are a major source of leaks themselves as they are water pressure operated as you know. As well as that , it will probably not work at all after a few years so don't rely on it. Tip, you may need to turn 2 taps on to get it to kick in. Sorry for the bad news but make sure you have an alternative way to turn water off . 👍
@@kevinmullin4504 Thanks Kevin. I am just a home owner and so obviously only see one rather than many. I have only had it for just over a year and I do test it every now and then. I did fit a new stop cock with the SureStop to make sure that I had a more permanent way of isolating the water supply because I read that they should not be relied upon for extended periods.
Interestingly I have spoken to a couple of plumbers (mainly on the heating side) who they they have never been asked to fit one
Very informative. My old Central heating system needs a refresh and the flow is lowish. Great to know about these and I will get the flow and pressure tested to help decide on the best solution for this house. Remove the tanks and Combi seems like a good option now. Cheers Roger
Good luck!
I tried to fix this problem a while back. Had the utilities company round several times, replaced the small bore pipework from the street stop cock to my house etc. The guy from the utilities (after I said I was going to have to fit a pump) said "shouldn't have to fit a pump, it's regulated up the street as the flow and pressure are too high" the never adjusted it for me but its just annoying that the are throttling in for a reason I haven't figured out yet. I still havent installed a pump and just struggled on...
Hi Nathan, the utility provider are required to provide you with around 9l/min to the boundary, however depending on the length of pipe run and the size of the property a pump could be the solution to poor flow you are experiencing. To find out which pump would best suit your system, please take a look at our product selector. www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/product-selector
Get a powertank!!!
Fitted a few of these and they are a good idea. Biggest issue with this install is that he has fitted after the pressure reducer, if fitted before then you put more water in the vessel under a higher pressure making it last longer. Also with a accumulator when it is depleted you go back to mains, with a break tank you loose water untill refilled These use to be TWS before Stuart turner bought them out.
Hi Jamie, Thanks for your comment.
The AccuBoost accumulator needs to be installed after the PRV to protect the vessel from fluctuations in mains pressure which could damage the bladder.
Only unpumped accumulators would revert to the mains once depleted. When a pumped unit is depleted, the pump will continue to run to deliver a minimum of 12L/min.
@@SalamanderPumps good clarification. My fitter got hung up on achieving 3 bar on the prv until I pointed out it was there to protect the pump and vessel and we want it relatively low.
Excellent video and explanation. I couldn't help notice that the kitchen faucet handle is dripping...
Yes it was dripping but not any longer
Here’s a useful tip: Rotate the stopcock on and off twice a year to keep it free. So many are boxed in and totally inaccessible which is why they seize up.
Don't open the stopcock and leave it at the end of the thread, back off a half turn.
Great information - Thankyou! Also reminds me of my disappointment when replacing our bathroom. Knowing we had crap water pressure, I very carefully replaced the hot piping to the bath in 22mm all the way - even using formed bends to reduce resistance - then unpacked the new tap to find the risers had pathetic 8mm bores!!
You did not waste your time with the 22mm because the resistance is end to end over the entire route and is still lessened by the mainly larger pipe
Fantastic idea. Wellcome. Thank u. from INDIA . TN.
I've had decreasing water flow for years.
I fixed it by turning my stopcock off and fully back on.
Dirty water then came out of my kitchen tap and the flow rate was as it should be.
I had to use a stopcock key with socket and socket wrench to move my seized stopcock key.
I have had that experience myself on some jobs but I am reluctant to adivse it because it is very easy to sheer the head off.
@@SkillBuilder Yes it was in the back of my mind whilst doing it. I just applied pressure until it just gave way.
All fixed now and looking forward to my shower later.
Maybe you have an answer to the problem in my house in Thailand. 1. It takes almost a week to fill my 50m3 swimming pool. 2. I live on an estate with an undersized main and most houses have a pump and tank, so at peak times we have almost no water. Certainly the shower won't work and we only have a bungalow. 3. We don't have these products here and I found a Mitsubishi WP105 that may solve my problem. 4. If I use a tank that won't solve the filling my pool problem as when the tank is empty I am back to mains flow. 5. Due to the weather, the pool needs filling every four-six months so a week to do it is a pain. Any pointers would be helpful as no one in Thailand can.
If the cylinder is not changing its water very much doesn't that constitute a dead leg? A potential legionella breeding ground if the temperature is nkt kept below 20`C.
It is a good point. I don't know the answer but I will empty it every few weeks now. You just have to turn the mains off and let it deplete.
Is that the consumer unit behind your head?
Really informative for me thanks!
I moved into a house and have what I think is a similar unpumped device in my loft. It only supplies 2 showers and the hot water.
Great video, been considering an accumulator after changing pumps on a tank system (original pump 20 years ago is spec'd less than current pump and the new one can't keep up with 90% of the house now and water blaster sure when under pressure)
Technology gets better but not always production.
I heard salamander pumps are not reliable. Stuart Turner pumps are the rolls royce of pumps there not cheap but built to last.
Just had a new main moled in for £1100, 3 small holes dug wouldnt even know it's been done. "pressure" issues sorted (well, no change in pressure but flow rate vastly improved). Permanent no maintenance solution worth looking in to.
I fitted one of these at our old house and it worked perfectly. :)
For how long?
How about turning the main water valve up a bit?
Hi Roger, I had a dripping tap in my bathroom and a plumber fixed it but he didn't change the cartridges or seat and springs in the taps. But, the taps did stop dripping. After the plumber left I turned on the taps and discovered that the water pressure in both the cold and hot water taps had noticeably decreased. The pressure is okay but it's not what it was. The water pressure in the second bathroom taps is still strong, the same as it always is. The pressure has only decreased in the bathroom that the plumber worked on. I'm writing to you becasue I can't figure out what the plumber could have done to reduce the water pressure in both the hot and cold taps. Can you think of something he might have done to reduce the pressure? Like I said, he didn't replace the cartridges. Also, I made sure that the water valves under the sink were fully turned to the open position so I know that they are not reducing the amount of flow that I had before the plumber fixed the dripping tap.
This is tricky because the water pressure is not the flow rate so he would have had to put a pressure reduction in there . If he didn't reduce the flow under the basin he may have put a another rubber washer in the bottom of the cartridge.
@@SkillBuilder Thank you for responding.
I think this is great, especially if rural. However maybe add some videos with innovation re gray water recovery, rain water capture, and anything that gives a shower user how much water they have used.
.A new faucet (a dual spray switch tap that allows to switch between a strong shower setting, and normal stream setting) is installed downstairs. Whenever the downstair neighbor switches to strong flow setting I hear a high pitched water stream noise in my kitchen. The below neighbor uses the high flow setting quite often in the day, and it affects my ears as I have an ear condition called tinnitus. But it's loud enough that even someone without tinnitus would find it annoying (the nails against chalkboard type of sound)..why the noise is coming,
Really appreciate any help, thank you!
Where can I buy such a cup-type flow measurement device?
I assume the tank is installed prior to the boiler?
Great explanation very well done. Thank you!
My house water pressure is low as when using same time bathroom and kitchen sink . Please advise how to fix them problems.
Watching from Louisiana. Amazing work!
Thank you very much!, good to hear from viewers in the USA.
My problem: in the upper floor of house, water comes well of the shower but barely a drop comes out of sink next to it in the same bathroom. Same for a second restroom in the same floor (Flow to toilet siphon is good but barely a drop coming off at the sink to wash hand!). Where could my problem be and I though may be air lock, thus several times cut the water from house main shut off valve in yard and re started with no avid.
😂😂… this is why plumbers charge an arm and a leg when you call them…. Ask them to increase water pressure and they build you a new extension to your house
I have a new problem after fitting a new kitchen sink mixer tap. The hot flow is extremely slow. I followed the fitting instructions to the T & the exchange was successful with the addition of a couple of stop taps & filters positioned correctly but as for the hot flow, well its just shocking. In fact when both hot & cold are on together its probably worse. Like Roger said in the video, is it just how new mixer taps are?
How do your easily measure pressure if you don't have an outside tap that readily fits the gauge? I would imagine it's difficult.
Thank you for a grand explanation , just a mere sparks .
Where in the UK do you see 4 bar in the street?! Thames Water guarantee only 1 bar and can legally drop it to 0.85 without notice. It's so bad that they even dropped the requirement for a break tank....yes you can directly pump a TWA main!
Well done Roger as you explained very well which it was helpful and useful knowledge!!!!!
Was this taken 10 years ago? Now there is an electric pump 1/100 of that size and get a better result for only 50 gbp.
Hi Roger, thanks for all your videos. Why don’t you do any videos with Robin Clevett anymore ?
Robin left to start his own channel, based on him, which we helped him set up. He is doing O.K so there is no compelling reason for him to dilute that by doing stuff with us.
Presumably, if you size the tank correctly so water isn't sitting for days, microbial growth isn't an issue, right?
However when you want to check the air pressure vessel you do need to empty out ,
Hi Peter, to check the pre-charged pressure in the vessel, isolate the electrics and mains supply, empty the vessel and use a pressure gauge attached to the Schrader valve on top of the vessel. To check the current PSI inside the vessel, there would be no requirement to drain it down. Thanks.
What can you do with variable pressure. Sometimes its so high the next door neighbour turning on and off can rattle the pipes, other times it's much lower and full is just above a trickle...
It seems that you are on a shared main and if the neighbour is using it you don't get enough. Pressure is not the same as flow. You can increase the flow to 12 lts per minute with a pump which fits on the mains inside the house.
Measure how much you are getting at best and worst. It is also worth asking your water supplier. I have sometimes discovered a stopcock that was just about open. I love thos jobs.
@@SkillBuilder I missed a piece of specific information that invalidate this. I have the main water cut off reduced to prevent water ram in the house. I still get very high pressure, but as you say pressure and flow are different. There are obviously differences in the external feed that are translated through a partially closed valve.
I always thought either a water ram protection device or a large tank to provide controlled pressure. Both have their disadvantages.
The mains and the stopcock are under my kitchen sink. Could I run the mains pipe up into my attic (from ground floor, 1st floor to loft) and still benefit from the bladder version or even the pumped ? I will check out their site. What a great solution. I love the bladder cylinder, GENIUS !
Yes it doesn't matter where you put it on the system but you lose a little head pressure if it is high up. You can put them in a shed outside if you have room.
@@SkillBuilder Thank you. Outside is doable. I'd rather not take up space in the loft I have plans for a Man Cave !
Hi Lee, pumped models should ideally be connected directly after the stop cock. Unpumped models can be located anywhere in the property however if in a shed make sure its protected from frost etc.
Should of bought a powertank
Thanks for the great info. I think I may have a solution to our problem with our water flow. Personally, I think these should be installed in all homes during the build process. Thanks, Guv'
It solved my problem, 6 bathrooms and over 3 floors. Thank goodness the problem solved otherwise my head will explode
At 4.17 you say unfortunately they didn't renew the tapping on the mains, what and where is that?
in the road on the water main
I can see why they avoided trying to get that changed by the Utilities 🤣
Have you completed the orangery project now Roger?
Almost. It needs a new floor and a bit of EWI
Is that strainer upside down? Won’t catch the bits on the outside of the strainer?
it is a Y filter or are you talking about the washer?
@@SkillBuilder I normally fit strainers the other way so the muck caught on the inside. Or it’s scraped off into the pipe when it’s removed. I may be looking at it wrong,
Thank you for you video's' my question is, can I have a unvented cylinder connected directly to my combi boiler to give me constant hot water just by opening the taps, without using a switch to wait for the cylinder to heat the water. If yes does it use a lot of electricity to work.
Thank you
Hi there. I live in Los Angeles California. Can you recommend a plumber in my area who can install that unit for me. Currently I have Groundfos EZ boost in my house for very long time and that model was discontinued and I can’t find anyone to service the unit. I will love to replace the unit before it stops working completely. Thank you !
Hi how do you get rid of air pressure in yr water line
Bro how about hot water faucet become cold after few minutes?it's called mixing issue? How can solved this issue? Can you help me? Appreciate it thank you
where do you buy that. product to measure the flow?
Bought this house a decade ago. Plumbed by a plumber with no common sense. Good street mains pressure on a 3/4 inch supply. Most houses here reduce the 3/4 to a 1/2 for interior supply by putting in a 3/4 x 1/2 x1/2 tee at the entrance, to feed an outside hose bib at what is also a convenient location. That allows garden watering without reducing inside pressure, because the 3/4 carries about twice volume as a 1/2. This guy reduced to 1/2 at entrance, then ran about 20 ft of 1/2 to a 1/2 tee to feed an outside bib in a very inconvenient location. Also reduces inside flow when watering! Used much more pipe than needed just to make things worse. 50 year old job, so the plumber is too old to ask "what were you thinking?"
What is the best book to get a city and guilds in the trade
That unpumped unit bladder will lose pressure over time. Does the unit have a Schrader valve and can it be repressured with a compressor and what is the pressure. Thanks Roger, I might pursue this.
Yes there is a schraeder valve on top and you can pump it up with a car footpump.
Just wondering if you could help , our down stairs bathroom toilet has water to the sinks but the toilet has no water it just stopped, I’ve checked the on/off valve and there’s no water pressure there, this pipe goes in the floor, and after that I’ve no idea please if you could help it would be greatly appreciated
How have you tested the on/off valve? It is unlikely that the pipe has suddenly blocked. Often we find a bit of debris has washed into the filter, some need cleaning out twice a year, especially if there are old iron pipes in the mix.
Great piece of kit. What do you think the life if the bladder will be, given the short life issues with the bladders in expansion vessels of unvented cylinders?
I am ot sure but the water is cold so maybe better than a central heating epdm membrane. Having said that, failure of the expansions vessel is often assumed and not confirmed, I have found many so called faulty ones perfectly ok. Sometimes it is just the schraer valve.
@@SkillBuilder I had one of these at my home in the US. We were on a well and had one of these systems to maintain pressure... The one I had was still running perfectly 10 years after installation.
Thank you for your comment. The AccuBoost accumulator has a “water on bag” type bladder so there is minimal stress applied to the bladder which means it should last a long time. In the unlikely event that there is a problem with the bladder, it is possible to replace the bladder.
@@SkillBuilder Hi, when you say the water is cold - how do you get hot water to the shower? Sorry if a stupid question.
Is there more information on how these fit onto a combo boiler system? I’m a bricklayer not a plumber so might be a stupid question.
Hi Elliott, there's definitely an application for using the AccuBoost to supply a combi boiler or an unvented system. Please take some time to look at page 4 of our installation information on the following link. www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/uploads/AccuBoost%20Installation%20Guide%20(Jul%2022).pdf
Get a Powertank!!!
Hi Roger can I fit a unit to my combi boiler system thanks dave bowley
yes, that is what I have
@@SkillBuilder thank you Roger Dave Bowley
Can you add a boost tank after the water softener of a well pump? In otherwords, store clean water not directly from the well, did the pressure of the well tank affect it? My problem is when there is a power outage I loose power to the well pump and no water at the house. Do you recommend adding a check valve where the boost tank is connected?
There is a check valve required on the incoming main from the well. A large Boost tank will give you approxiamately half its capacity in water. I drain my Boost by turning off the incoming main and letting the tank deplete under its own compression power. Half the tank is water the other half is air and the air will push all the water out of the tank as it is used.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to replace the 1/2 inch tapping on the main with a 3/4 inch?
They won't do it and I am not allowed to
Surely more pressure will use more water , in times of water shortages is this a good idea ?
Have a shower of reduced duration
@@SkillBuilder Really, is that your reply 🤔
Will this work with well? I have to filter sediment out before it gets to that tank? I have 5-10 gpm at the garden hose. I want to pump it into my home and run my home.
Get a Powertank
Thank you for your video.
Please tell me how much it cost me to fixed it.
Recently plumber charged me £80 just to change two washer.
Did i paid him too much?
Fixing water pressure how much do i have to pay an arms and the legs?
The plumber charged you for travelling to and from your home and having the van, tools and knowledge to do the job.
Nice video as always Roger.
It would be cheaper to retap the street main tap for 3/4” or, if permitted, 1”.
Hi Roger, my water pressure has dropped dramatically…most notable is the garden hose ,it use to be able to stand 3 metre from where you wanted to water…now it is less than metre..any ideas🤔
Put your ear to your cold tap and listen. If you hear a noise it might indicate a leak.
@@SkillBuilder I’ll try that👍
Always a pleasure to watch you work!
Thanks Hugh
Will the old pipes not leak because of extra pressure?
They shouldn't leak
Can you use this if you got a drilled well with a submersible pump?
If got a tank wet similar to this but much smaller
Does anyone have a good guess on how long a home water pressure regulating valve can last? Mine has been on the home since 1974. Thanks
It will work indefinetly but scale can be a problem in hard water areas.
@@SkillBuilder Thanks my friend
any tips for someone having just 750ml per minute from the mains in another country? how does once increase the flow, what is the best pump? Thanks
Very interesting info Rodger abs well explained 🙂👍
Thanks 👍
I live in florida is there any company that sell this in the united States ?
Hi - sorry but I can’t see how 4 bar pressure delivers only 10l per minute, unless the pipework is partially blocked. Has a flow test at the property meter been done? I get 15l per min with just 1.8 bar.
static pressure means nothing. You can get 8 bar on a 6mm pipe but it won't give you a decent flow rate. The taps are often restricted to something like that.
Really useful video - thanks
Glad you liked it
Interesting concept & a good idea, but after having a burst pipe last year, large Water tanks & flexible pipes would make me anxious every time I went out.
Could you use a flexi hose on a b radiator
Most homes have trunk and branch plumbing systems with undersized pipework, manifold plumbing is the way to go.
Good video. We have 2.5 bar coming into the house but only about 12 l/min of flow. I understand that 2.5 bar drops 0.5 bar when you go up a floor to the shower and another 0.5 bar if we add a water softener. So think an accumulator is a decent option to go in the loft. Is it likely to need a pump? Are the pumps noisy and how often do they kick in?
The one we tried was quite noisy and they kick in every time you turn on the tap.
@@SkillBuilder I saw another video where they had a pump that essentially "charged" the accumulator but didn't kick in every time an outlet was opened. Have you seen this?
1 bar is 10 meters' height of water
Excellent video with great explanation
Thank you!
Thanks for your comment!
I accidentally bumped into your video and saw that your kitchen design is like mine.
Hey roger! Love your videos ! Just wondering what you would recommend for a house that has a decent flow rate and decent presssure…. But with a Harvey arc water softener which seems to completely sap all water pressure and flow rate. ( I had a big unvented cylinder and system boiler installed to avoid the rubbish shower when someone runs the kitchen tap like on our old combi system) and the water softener seems to have negated all my benefits !
My water softener did the same. It basically ran through washing machine valves and 15mm pipe work, with something like 8mm internal diamer washing machine hoses which saped the flow rate. I upgraded my 15mm to 22mm pipe work, full bore iso valves (instead of washing machine valves)and the largest diameter flexi hoses (tap tails) I could (22mm to 3/4 bsp, with something like 13mm diameter). Minimised 90 degree turns also. Now, no issues at all.
How would you improve pressure in a 4th floor one bed flat, electric shower won't run hot before 6.30am, then after 6.30 it kicks in, driving me mad any suggestions?? Thanks 👍
Hi Phillip, if it is only the one electric shower that requires boosting, you could look into one of our single outlet TapBoost pump.
Hi Roger, we live in a bungalow. Would we dispose of the tank in the loft if we fitted this system ?
yes but you will need an unvented cylinder unless you have a combination boiler. If your mains pressure is good you might not even need the Acuboost.
Would this boost hot water pressure from a combo boiler?
It will but the flow needs to be slowed in order to heat the water.
The first thing people should do is contact their regional water company , here in the north west United utilities will always prove to the property’s boundary if the issue is on public they will renew Pipework or connection for free
That is standard across the country and the minimum pressure is 0.7 bar at the stopcock and you should be able to fill a 2 litre bottle in less than 13 seconds. which equates to around 9 litres per minute. That is not a lot for a shower.
Can it be used for plastic pipes?
yes
Is weight an issue due to the floor failing? I could see a 120 liter unit weighing at 250 kilos 300 lb, might even be considered a live load as it fills and empties over and over. Is that the 450 liter?
Morning. Thanks for your comment. The AccuBoost 450L will weigh 281kg when filled, and the 120L weighs 132kg when filled. Depending where the unit is stored, some reinforcement work may need to be done.