Making My First Neon Tube
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2020
- watch as I make & process my first neon-filled glass tube!
the term "liquid fire" was coined in the 1920s when people saw neon for the first time.
to see how i set up my neon plant, view the playlist here:
• Neon Bombarding Setup
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Thanks for showing and explaining the process!
you're welcome!
Lighting that first tube must have felt amazing. Great work building your processing unit.
thank you! it was a lot of hard work to get to that point, it was indeed an amazing moment.
This is a total dream of mine, to make, restore and preserve neon signs. Thank you for showing the process as well as the various pitfalls, frustrations, excitements and successes of this wonderfully unique art/science.
(shower thought): Speaking of art and science, i think my attraction to neon signs is similar to my love of the martial arts, in that, it is a subject that is studied as a science but expressed as an art.
Cheers!
you're right! there is a lot of science involved in the creation of neon, and basically every step involved requires an artisan skill that must be practiced and honed.
Amazing job! Also, absolutely wonderful layout of your setup - it looks very thought out and is very easy to follow what is happening on video. Great voice over work too! I've always been a big fan of neon signs since I was a kid, the glow from them is like nothing else and I'm happy to see people still interested in continuing the craft.
thank you! i tried to make the video easy to understand without getting too overly technical. i'm glad you enjoyed it! the glow of neon truly has no equal and i look forward to helping keep the craft alive. :)
You did an awesome job, thank you for helping us appreciate what goes into making a neon tube and sign!
thank you! i am glad you found it interesting :)
This is the coolest , I like how you used a stick to push the bombarding transformer , keep it safe with those nst they are dangerous , that sneaking effect looks pretty cool too
seeing all your videos - watching the bombarding, seeing a few different moves - probly couple more questions! thank you!
Wow! Huge success on multiple fronts. Excellent editing, too! Keep it up!
as one of my first subscribers, you've been with me the whole way. thanks for your support!
Awesome, congratulations!
thank you! it was a lot of work getting to this point, but i'm excited for all the possibilities this setup with bring!
Fascinating and intriguing work. Always had an interest in neon signage..more so in plasma displays which requires the same equipment for vacuum work. Great stuff and superb video.
thank you! i agree, neon (and indeed all plasma) is fascinating, both visually and scientifically.
I felt the same excitement the moment I saw it work. Subbed
awesome, thank you!
Good luck with future neon adventures....
thank you!
Nice job!
I found this channel by accident and just seeing this vid earned you a sub. Amazing setup dude!
i appreciate it, thank you!
I shared this video (To Cody'sLab) after stumbling upon it looking into Neon sign transformers (high voltage science). I think it's awesome you explain every step in your process.
oh cool, i love Cody's videos! just last night i binge-watched his entire "Chicken Hole Base" playlist, haha.
i'm glad you enjoyed watching... it's taken a lot of learning to get to this point, and there's still plenty more to learn!
Awesome to watch you light your first tube! Wishing I could find someone to learn this art form from.
i'm glad you enjoyed it! if you're interested, here is a list of places that offer neon classes, some offer short workshops and others multi-week courses:
prosites-llcwccd.homestead.com/NEONSCHOOLS.html
Wow this is some really cool stuff!
thank you, i am excited for all possibilities the setup provides!
Fantastic Video and Very Well Done. I am very interested in learning this art / trade. Really nice shop set up too..
Love this ✨✨✨⚡️❤️
This is awesome!
neon is an amazing light source! thanks for watching!
Well done Sir, well done.
thank you very much!
I really should get into neon art. I really want to make a custom plasma ball out of a round bottom flask and fill it with xenon at a low pressure. Would be cool and fun!
sounds awesome!
Love neon working. Always wanted to do it since i was a kid. Keep up this style of video and you have me as a subsciber!
i've been intrigued by neon bending since childhood as well. i had a lot of fun making this video, i'm glad you enjoyed it!
so cool
Awesome.
Beautiful tube. Im in VA. We have some neon equipment. Trying to convince the old man to let me set it up somewhere
@13:35 That laugh says "Take that nature! No glass shards in my eyes this time! Now who looks like the crazy one?! Huh!?""
I don’t have much too comment but this is awesome. Instant sub and looking forward to more content!
thanks for the sub, glad you enjoyed!
brother i love you thanks a lot
you helped a lot
i wish you good
I am so happy to see someone younger than me setting this up and doing it! In 1986 I set out to make my own setup and after getting my hands on the book Neon techniques and handling, I was able over time to create a system and by 1988 I made my first cold cathode tubes. Believe it or not, some practice tubes still are over my bed and still work! Moving caused me to disassemble the glass room and everything has gotten mixed up in my collection, so for the last 20 years I have not done anything with neon. Am going to check out how you set your system up!
that's awesome! it's amazing how long well-made tubes can last
@@NeonPreservation I was inspired to make a quick video showing how they still light up despite being in place since 1989.
nice work! neon is really quite simple, yet has such a magical quality to it.
beautifulll
I great content!
Subscribed!
thank you, i'm glad you like it!
When you are making welds rotate your glass in each hand opposite the other. Once you are ready to put them together to them the same for a sec then stick the two together and turn together. This makes sure all the area of the glass is evenly heated and you get an almost perfect wild right from the start. Take it off fires and barely pull apart as you blow to make the line disappear. With lead free you should have hotter fires.
thank you for the tips, i will continue to work on my technique!
i'am neon worker in France !! good job
thank you, and hello from the USA!
WOW as you say "that is most excellent!!!" I need to find me a bombardier and start this build!!!!!!! Any info you might have on a bombardier (maybe a pole pig?)would love to hear
haha. yes, keep in mind that the output from a bombarder is lethal and extreme care must be taken to prevent killing yourself. that said, here are a couple links with information about pole pigs as bombarders & how to test them:
www.neon-john.com/Neon/Shop_equip/Bombarder/bombarder_index.htm
www.novioljourneys.com/?p=1351
Awesome.Did you consider making a Tesla coil and lighting them wirelessly?
an interesting idea... sounds fun!
Congratulations!!! Nice setup, cool video and great success!!) And your pronouncing is so good, that I am don't even need sub's 😅 (Russian guy with bad English)
thank you! I am glad my pronunciation is understandable. I added subtitles too in case someone wants them. :)
this was amazing ! do you do replacement tubes ? got a corona sign that came damaged the bottom where it plugs into the transformer ,. not sure how i can fix it , i got ripped off :(
sorry to hear about your sign! i am merely an amateur hobbyist who is trying to learn the art of neon. for repairs you can contact your local neon bender and they will be able to give you a quote based on the size & complexity of the tube. good luck!
Can you buy the tools and equipment off the shelf or do you have to build them
its some of both. building a neon plant involves purchasing the hardware, then some DIY building to set it up in a way that best works for you. as such, no two neon setups are exactly the same.
you can see how i assembled mine in my video series here:
th-cam.com/play/PLwUyw8JW9qAgE_2jdDp6gGAfWHQN75lSL.html
I’m sure you made your share of mistakes but all in all it looks like you’re gettin it down pretty well. SICK set up too. You should start making your own glass.haha Might as well. Cool to know fellow light junkies exist. Keep up the good work, dude.
thank you! i bought all this equipment used & unassembled and it took me a while to figure out what everything was, how it worked, and how it all needed to fit together... but i got there eventually and this is the result!
i've made plenty of mistakes and will make plenty more, but i'm looking forward to honing my skills and making more & better tubes.
Where can i get one of those torr gauges that behind the u gauge?
are you referring to the scale that is taped to the backboard behind the u-gauge?
what kind of glass do you normally use to make neon tubes? normal borosilicate glass?
neon is normally made with soft glass; either lead, barium-strontium (a.k.a. "lead free"), or soda-lime. in the USA borosilicate is rarely used, usually only with art pieces. in Europe the use of borosilicate for neon is more common than in the USA.
So, some thoughts on this process:
During the purifying stage, how critical is it to have air inside? Can pure oxygen allow an arc without creating additional water vapor? Also, the super high power stage to heat the electrodes looks pretty risky, have you considered an RF-based heater for each electrode instead? I feel like that would do a good enough job gettering the tube without scorching anything.
i like your lateral thinking!
the purpose of bombarding is to purify the tube, so you could probably use any gas inside... air is most commonly used because its free. it is possible that using pure oxygen might cause oxidization on the metal electrode shells, but im not sure.
you are correct that using that much current is dangerous; but so are power tools and heavy machinery... using the proper precautions and safety equipment, risk is minimized. it is wise, however, to have a healthy respect for such power.
an alternative to bombarding is called 'oven-pumping'. the tube is baked in an oven/kiln while under vacuum to burn off the impurities inside, then the electrodes are processed using a magnetic induction wand. some special-effects tubes (e.g., crackle tubes or large-diameter plasma tubes) have too much surface area for bombarding and can only be processed this way. the problem with oven pumping is, of course, having an oven large enough to fit the tubes you are making. if you're interested in this sort of setup, i suggest you check out Mundy Hepburn's channel and take a look at all the crazy plasma sculptures he has created in his homemade basement plant:
th-cam.com/channels/UImMzVCZ-mTHS6GhTKwzeQ.html
@@NeonPreservation very cool stuff. My day job is in the manufacturer of laser stuff, and I've worked with machines that are extremely similar in concept to your neon plant, but meant to operate under far more extreme conditions. We have one product that can't include a getter for technical reasons, so we have to achieve insane purity levels before filling with helium-neon, and we do use an oven for that process, and bake for many hours. The neon plant is comparatively basic, but also much more approachable for a home build. I'm really looking forward to watching the whole build series.
very nice! you are correct, the neon plant setup is pretty basic... it has remained relatively unchanged for the past 100 years; there have been technological advancements in some of the materials involved, (e.g., electrode refinement, borosilicate manifolds with greaseless stopcocks, improved vacuum pump tech) but the overall process is still the same.
i hope you enjoy watching the setup videos, i am interested to see what similarities and/or differences you notice compared to your daily laser manufacturing!
How much will a processing setup like this cost?? Mainly for diy or side work.
if you're buying new equipment i'd guess upwards of $25k. for used equipment there are a lot of factors that influence the price of a neon plant; quantity/age/condition of the equipment, location, motivation of the seller, how much glass stock included, etc... the prices i see are usually somewhere between $3000-$5000 dollars, although i've seen sellers asking much more. if delivery is required, freight shipping can add considerable cost as well.
all told, i was probably about $7k into it just to do the beginners stuff seen in this video. i expect to spend another couple thousand on glass for practice before i can make anything that i would consider to be acceptable.
8:00 - Can you teach us how the manifold system precisely works? How you purge it with gas or what not? in Detail.
the manifold system is collection of valves that allow the user to expose or isolate various system components from each other. various combinations of opened & closed valves allow the user to evacuate or fill the tube, depending on the stage of processing. if you would like to see the assembly of the vacuum manifold check out my video (it has chapters in the description so you can jump around to various topics), and i explain a bit about what the various components do while i am assembling:
th-cam.com/video/Ya3I1l-zkqg/w-d-xo.html
очень интересное видео
U should do a sign with snaking it looks cool tbh
agreed, the snaking does look badass! that tube i showed was an argon tube with a bunch of impurities in it so it wouldn't have lasted long... however, filling a tube with xenon to higher pressures will give an awesome snaking effect! now i just need a tank of xenon...
Can you make low pressure sodium lamp from this setup?
it has crossed my mind! with a little experimenting, i think i could possibly create a primitive LPS lamp.
Parabéns linda profissão,eu também trabalho com neon mais diferente eu amo esta profissão aqui está desaparecendo,
thank you and hello from the USA! neon is beautiful and we are having a renaissance here.
keep doing good work to help keep neon alive!
Nice video. I have a couple of questions. Do modern neon signs still hum/ buzz ? What is the smallest tube size ? (I saw 6mm online)
I ask because I'm thinking about having a custom sign made, it would be a 3/8 scale version of the original iconic movie prop
Currently I'm still working on recreating the blueprint from a blurry screenshot
the old style of magnetic transformers hum under various circumstances, but modern electronic transformers do not. there are uses for both kinds, although electronic transformers are mostly what you would see in modern window & beer signs.
the smallest tube size that is readily available to neon benders is 5mm. the smallest tubing that you would normally see on a window or beer sign is 8mm, and anything smaller requires special treatment on how the tube is processed and what kind of electrodes are available. that said, i have seen examples of 6mm & 5mm tubing used for special artistic purposes, and (like your idea) in scale models.
you will have to talk to your neon bender to see what they are willing & capable of making for you.
@@NeonPreservation
Thanks for the info.
Amazing work but I have a question what kind of gas is inside the lamp
thanks! the tube is filled with pure Neon gas.
@@NeonPreservation Thank you for your reply✍👏🥀
Nice chicken stick!
Watching this makes me wonder if there's any reason neon lighting is always made of glass. Is there a reason why you can't use acrylic tubing? Would make it much less fragile.
an interesting idea! unfortunately, there is no way to heat acrylic hot enough to burn off the impurities inside the tube without burning the acrylic itself.
can you do a Vacuum fluorescent display tube?
while VFDs work under the same principles as neon tubes (illuminated phosphors in a rarified tube), they are much more complex due to all the additional technologies involved. i am not equipped, knowledgable, or skilled enough to manufacture them myself.
very cool might i ask why no mercury was added as it brings out the color?
good question! mercury is added to argon-filled tubes, as argon alone is not very bright (like the ones i showed at the beginning of the video). mercury turns the pale lavender color of an argon tube to a bright blue, and also emits ultraviolet light, which illuminates the phosphor powder in coated tubes.
neon tubes almost never contain mercury, because the neon gas by itself gives off that brilliant reddish-orange glow, and if mercury is added to a neon-filled tube it will cause the tube to glow blue instead. you can see it happen in this video: th-cam.com/video/en466aLLatc/w-d-xo.html
@@NeonPreservation oh cool learned something new today. Thanks for answering my question. I've always been fascinated by neon signs. Just recently I got a Budweiser sign. however on some occasions when powered on half of the sign won't come on so after toggling the switch a couple times the whole sign comes on. any ideas of what causes it? all tubes are intact.
since the tubes are intact and the whole sign lights up after you switch it a couple times, i would guess it's a transformer issue.
@@NeonPreservation OK thanks for the input funny thing is on a more current electrical system it did that. Now I have it on older electrical system and it does it but not as much as it used to it rarely does it on older electrical. I moved from a modern electrical system [above described issue was constant] to older system [issue rarely occurs].
hm, curious. could be a finicky transformer.
Where do you get your argon, neon etc. from? I live in Canada btw
lower purity argon gas is commonly used as a shielding gas for welders, that can be easily purchased at a welding supply shop... but, if you're looking for high-purity noble gas to use for sign making, your local sign shop should be able to get them for you. you can buy smaller quantities (1L-2.25L) of noble gas at atmospheric pressure in glass bottles that attach to neon manifolds from various sources online...
e.g.: prosites-llcwccd.homestead.com/NEON-GAS.html
you might be able to find something to suit your application on ebay. keep in mind if you are looking for compressed gas cylinders like i have (25L), there may be a haz-mat fee involved in shipping.
@@NeonPreservation thanks a lot for the fast reply! It’s good to know that I can find it pretty locally, since online the only results were from sgs gases which didn’t seem to sell anything.
326 subs, what's wrong with youtube :)
I'm very curious about how bright can you make a neon tube (other gas technically)? Can you essentially make your own fluorescent tube, but with only gas (no mercury, phosphor)? How bright could it be?
I think it would be interesting to make an actual light tube and then experiment with adding different weird elements. Gallium, etc.
an excellent question! im sure in the 100+ year history of the neon light, someone has tried experiments with various combinations... the question is, what did they find out? sounds like the recipe for an interesting video! :)
@@NeonPreservation I'd love to see that. If I had your skills, I'd probably be doing that.
We know sodium and mercury work, but what about the others. I suspect it may not be "good" but it would still be cool.
Awesome job. Im a lamp worker learned pipemaking on a mirage(nice torch) I already work with glass. And know enough to be dangerous about electricity. How much and where can I get your bombarder set up? I'm trying to transition to neon sculpture and light fixtures/small signs. What bombarding unit do you recommend for a small space. 7 x 9. Cheers from maine
if you're looking to purchase a new bombarder setup, EGL has them: www.egl-lighting.com/bombarders/
however, if you're looking for used neon equipment, it is rather scarce. you'll have to be patient and keep an eye on craigslist, FB marketplace & ebay. the neon setups i've seen lately seem to be around $4k-$5k and up, depending on what is included. most of the time they're completely disassembled and you'll have to learn what everything is, how it works, and how to assemble it. since you are a lamp worker i assume have knowledge of torch systems. also, since you have the equipment to work borosilicate, you could build your own vacuum manifold out of off-the-shelf scientific labware connectors, fittings, valves, etc.
not going to lie, 7'x9' is a _really_ small space for a neon shop. most neon benders build their tables to be 4'x8' or larger to have enough room to work, and that's not including the bombarding station. one option is to do the bending yourself and pay a local bender to do the processing for you. that way you wouldn't have to worry about trying to shoehorn a giant bombarder, choke, vacuum pump, vacuum manifold, etc. into your tiny space.
speaking of bombarding, the current used is lethal and you don't get second chances. i feel i would be remiss if i didn't mention this, considering you mentioned you know enough about electricity to be dangerous. if you choose to do the bombarding *make sure* you know all the risks involved and how to take adequate safety precautions.
i'm not trying to dissuade you or be unnecessarily harsh, i'm just trying to give you a realistic idea of what is involved. a good way to get started is to read all the neon books you can get your hands on. i recommend "Neon Techniques", "Neon: The Next Generation", and "The Neon Superguide" for starters.
let me know if you have other questions!
@@NeonPreservation thank you!
you're welcome! and after thinking about it, you mentioned you would be doing light fixtures & small signs; so you probably wouldn't need a full-size bending table. 7'x9' is still a small space (glass sticks are 4' or 5' long) but you could probably make it work for bending. still not sure if you could fit a processing setup in there with it though. also, you'd definitely want some sort of ventilation if you're burning torches in such a small space.
@@NeonPreservation I have experience with high amperage as well as industrial gasses and safety
ah, excellent. i try not to be patronizing (everyone is new once), but i get asked about bombarders frequently and i never know if it's someone who actually knows the real dangers of electricity, compressed gasses, CO, etc., or if its just a random person who saw a video on the internet and thought it was "cool".
Hey have you started doing any work for people yet ? I ask because I have a
"old N07 Brand" neon sign that'd not real big but it has a couple of broke tubes and hate to see it thrown away. Let me know if u would like to give it a try. Thanks... and great video !!
hello, and thanks for your interest! i can only practice neon in my spare time (which is rather scarce as of late) and it takes a long time to master such an intricate craft! as such, i don't currently do any work/repairs for people, as i do not think my skills are adequate for paid work.
that said, you could ask a professional neon bender to repair your neon sign, and they will do a much better job than i ever could. shipping neon tubes is risky, so it is best to try to find someone near to your location. support your local bender! :)
@@NeonPreservation thanks for your honesty.... I live in a small town in Arkansas so I will have to ship it anyway. This light has no sentimental value to me its just something I hate to see thrown away... but I understand not having the time.... but, if u decide to give it a try you are more than welcome to. It's a white colored light so idk if that is actually called neon or not.... thanks for the reply !
"Neon" while being a specific noble gas, is also used as a generic term used for a glass luminous tube filled with a noble gas; so yes, your white colored tubes are considered neon. if you want to get rid of your neon sign you could post it on the FB a group, e.g.:
NEON USA
facebook.com/groups/243608742776662
or, NEON for sale and Neon parts (glass only):
facebook.com/groups/938998106498376
or any of the other neon-related FB groups. there is a decent chance someone out there has the same sign as you do and is looking for a parts sign to repair their broken one. conversely, you could ask if anyone on the neon groups is parting their sign out and you could swap in some working tubes.
Im just starting, i have a 15kv neon transformer, can i use that for bombarding?
short answer? no.
more amperage is necessary because more current is required to heat the tube and electrodes to an adequate temperature for processing. generally, electrodes should be processed at least 10 times the manufacturers mA rating to fully activate the getter on the electrodes (e.g., 300mA for an electrode rated for 30mA). the glass needs to reach a minimum temperature of 225-250°C and the electrodes need to be glowing bright orange (c. 1000°C). it takes a lot of current to do that.
improperly processed (i.e., impure) tubes will take a long time to burn-in, run hot, sputter, and have a short life span.
that said, bombarding is not the only way to process tubes. oven-pumping & heating the electrodes using magnetic induction is another way; however, it takes a more customized setup since the oven has to be large enough to fit the tubes.
@@NeonPreservation thank you for the detailed answer. I guess the next question would be, where can i find an affordable bombarding transformer and choke?
if you're looking to purchase new, EGL has them: www.egl-lighting.com/bombarders/
however, if you're looking for used neon equipment, it is rather scarce. you'll have to be patient and watch on craigslist, FB marketplace & ebay.
in lieu of a purpose-built bombarder, some people use a surplus step down pole mount distribution transformer (aka "pole pig") that is wired in reverse to step up the voltage instead.
it is also possible to build your own choke if you know what you're doing, e.g.:
uneonised.com/2017/11/21/ballast-to-basics/
Do you make electrodes yourself or u buy them?
Where do u buy neon transformers (especialy the older non electronic model)?
i buy pre-made electrodes, as do most other neon benders.
any sign supply shop worth their salt sells neon transformers; you can also occasionally find new-in-box transformers on ebay
@@NeonPreservation where do you buy the gas you fill your tubes with (argon, neon, little bit of mercury)
Like do neon shops also sell that?
yes, sign supply shops also sell mercury & noble gases; however, you may have heard on the news that there is a global shortage of noble gases due to the conflict in Ukraine... so the supply chain is kinda hit-and-miss for the foreseeable future.
here's a link to a neon supply shop, plenty of neat stuff to check out there: www.wccdusa.com
@@NeonPreservation lovly
I was wondering how easy would it be for you to make a T12 or T8 flurescent tube, it seams princliples are mostly the same
Maybe even the flurescent tube ballast culd power a neon tube or vice vers
The only hard part seams coating a tube with poshpor to convert uv to visible light, and getting the right contacts to plug in the fixture
EU has some stupid laws it seams, banning everything thats not LED (incondecent lightbulb, halogen, and now also T8 flurescent tube so, sometimes I think that making a light I want will be the only option going forward
Maybe EU will ban neon signs next, who knows what this morons at Brussels will ban next to make our life miserable
fluorescent is similar to neon, but there are some key differences. neon is "cold cathode" and uses an electrode and a transformer as a power supply. fluorescent tubes are "hot cathode" and use a filament and a ballast for a power supply.
there was a system called HOTFIL that could enable a neon bender to make custom fluorescent bulbs, but it is no longer in production. you can read about it on the archived website here: www.neon-consult.com/hotfil/index.htm
that said, custom cold cathode tubes of 18mm+ can be made for architectural and accent lighting. Cathode Lighting Systems makes really cool looking custom orders and ships them all over the world. they have lots of photos to look at on their website gallery: www.cathodelightingsystems.com
not sure where you are in Europe, but there are European neon benders that use large-diameter tubing as well; the first one that comes to mind is in Sweden, but there are likely more... www.nordiskand.se
And my next question :)
Do you know a good rule on how much gas(pressure) needs to be filled in the tube?
the fill pressure various by the diameter of tube and type of gas used. there are charts to use as a guide.
do you have a link to one? i dont find anything on the internet
transformer manufacturers include a Luminous Tube Footage Chart with their transformers. there are many examples online but here is one; the gas fill pressures are on the bottom row. the charts show Neon & Argon/Mercury fill pressures, which are the two gasses normally used in neon manufacturing. other noble gasses can require different pressures.
www.gogsg.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/France_Luminous_Tubing_Chart.pdf
Thanks
Can you build and explain the vacuum pump and gas injection setup? I can't find any info nor videos about it. Thanks.
looks like you've found my "Neon Bombarding Setup" videos... lots of info there. if you want to read more about it, "Neon Techniques" by Samuel Miller & Wayne Stratton is a good primer.
@@NeonPreservation I have found the videos how to make the bombardment system, extremely helpful and detailed. Thanks! Also is it possible to do the high voltage of eliminating contaminants without such beefy transformer, maybe a more modern smaller unit that might be able to do the same task?
short answer? no.
a large bombarding transformer is necessary because more current is required to heat the tube and electrodes to an adequate temperature for processing. generally, electrodes should be processed at least 10 times the manufacturers mA rating to fully activate the getter on the electrodes (e.g., 300mA for an electrode rated for 30mA). the glass needs to reach a minimum temperature of 225-250°C and the electrodes need to be glowing bright orange (c. 1000°C). it takes a lot of current to do that.
improperly processed (i.e., impure) tubes will take a long time to burn-in, run hot, sputter, and have a short life span.
that said, bombarding is not the only way to process tubes. oven-pumping then heating the electrodes using magnetic induction is another way; however, it takes a more customized setup since the oven has to be large enough to fit the tubes.
@@NeonPreservation thanks for the reply. Would you happen to know the average required amperage needed to do the burn in like how you did in the video to get the whole tube red hot removing contaminates? I guess I might as well build a transformer. Transformer technology has immensely improved I think I might be able to make one that packs the same amount of current at a much smaller package. I have seen oven setups for Nixie tubes. It would be nice if you made some videos how to make them. Also plasma tubes with the erratic snaking effect are cool too I plan on making those.
at the end of the processing i was using over 500mA, and that was just a little tube. my bombarder goes up to about 600mA, but thats on the low end. neon bombarding transformers capable of processing cold-cathode tubing are rated for 1000mA.
however, if youre planning on making plasma tubes, you might as well build an oven because it is not possible to process plasma tubes with a bombarder-there is too much glass to heat and the electrodes will get scorched. the plus side of oven processing is you can take your time and neon tubes can be processed in it as well. i'd even go so far as to say it's probably a superior way of processing neon tubes. an oven doesn't have to be a big crazy expense either; check out plasma artist Mundy Hepburn's setup:
th-cam.com/video/LvTFTQxjFU4/w-d-xo.html
So you using only rotarty pump? What underpressure you can achive with it?
yes, i currently only have a rotary vane pump. depending on the size/length of the tube, my pump can get down to around 3 micron by the time the tube cools to 50°C. obviously, a lower pressure would be better, but in neon manufacturing, anything below 5 micron is considered "acceptable."
i plan on adding a diffusion pump so i can achieve faster pump down rates and a better ultimate vacuum.
@@NeonPreservation okay, thank you. I planning to build processing machine for neons and any knowledge is priceless. Diffusion pumps here in europe are problematic because of the oil thats is almost impossible to get, unfortunetly.
as you may know, there are other options for high-vacuum pumps besides diffusion pumps; a turbo-molecular pump might be one for you to consider if you want a secondary pump
@@NeonPreservation yes i know about them, once a while i check auction sides waiting for some resonable offers
excellent! being patient and waiting for a good deal to surface is how i add accessories my setup as well.
How long did this take from beginning to end?
after subtracting setting up the camera shots, just the making of this simple straight tube probably took about 15 minutes or so. a tube with bends or other detail would take a longer, depending on the number of bends, complexity of the pattern, etc.
of course, i am merely a novice; a skilled professional would be able to do it considerably faster.
@@NeonPreservation I'm a novice too. Your vids have helped quite a bit
nice! glad they have been helpful!
I have been enchanted by the magic of neon light since I first saw it as a little kid in the 80s. A flashing sign in a lighting store. ON: a beautiful, saturated, brilliant orange-red fiery light in a long tube, punctuated along its length by mysterious flowing pulsating dark and bright striations. Cool to the touch. A quiet hum. OFF: NOTHING. A totally clear 'empty' tube of nothing. HOW!??! How could this be?? Where is the light coming from? How does it turn on and off so instantaneously, totally unlike the gradually dimming hot filament of a light bulb! Why is it so richly orange-red? Why doesn't anyone else seem to care at all about this wonderful device or understand how it works?!? The quiet warm glow of this noble gas still bewitches me even today.
Slowly and methodically - understanding. Electricity, gasses, vacuums, plasma, electrons and ions, energy levels of an atom, photons, quantization, spontaneous emission, stimulated emission, collisional excitation transfer with a little bit of helium, lasing. Today I work at a facility that generates hundred-million degree plasmas for fusion research using ultrahigh power lasers, but it all started with those amazing tubes of brilliant nothing....
thank you for sharing; very eloquently stated! i too am entranced by the beauty and wonder of this seemingly mysterious light. i love the entire process of its creation: fire, molten glass, noble gas & high voltage.
the science & physics aspects fascinate me the most, and are why i decided to start the journey of making neon.
@@NeonPreservation NICE. I subscribe!
@@NeonPreservation oh and what is that clear liquid in the manometer? I guess they don't let you use mercury anymore but it obviously can't be something with any significant vapor pressure either. ionic liquid?
the liquid is Dow Corning 704 diffusion pump oil-a silicone-based fluid- which, as you surmised, has an extremely low vapor pressure.
@@NeonPreservation Interesting thx
Did u add mercury
i did not add any mercury; if i had added it, the tube would glow bright blue!
Could you measure the lumens per watt starting from the power supply.
i currently have no way of measuring that myself, but values are readily available online. there are many variables that affect the lm/W output like type of glass, phosphor, transformer, etc. here is a PDF that has some values you may find helpful; it is old (2006) but neon doesn't really change, so they should still be accurate.
www.neon-lighting.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/LED-Vs-NEON-neonefficiency1.pdf
@@NeonPreservation Very Impressive efficiency values in comparison to LED lights, seems only a red LED light is more efficient by 1 lumen per watt. While every other color neon beats out LEDs. I used the link you gave earlier to find everything else I need, but for the neon gas, a bottle/gas-tank would feel easier to use than a flask because of the connector, from where do you obtain the gas tanks from? Also as for phosphor glass tubing I have found some online sources, but what do you recommend from your experience? Also how much can one expect to pay for a 25 liters of neon?
the price of noble gases has increased drastically in the recent months since most of the world's supply comes from Ukraine. you'll have to call around to find out what it's going for these days. looks like this 12L tank was listed for $152, but who knows what it will be when they get it back in stock: www.abitechsupply.com/shop/tecnolux-ultrapure-100-neon-gas-12-liters/
Tecnolux, EGL, Ablon Technologies, eBay, etc., are all places to find tanks. Ultra High Purity (UHP) 99.999% Research Grade is the standard for the neon industry.
as for buying tubing, some manufactures will only sell to people with a business account, and others will sell to anyone. you could try your local sign supply shop to see if they have any you could buy, or you can buy online. i personally have not purchased any tubing yet since i have many boxes of old stock. that said; FMS has an online store where you can buy directly from them: www.brillite.com/products/tubing.php
or from Ablon: ablontech.com
and Abitech sells neon tubes by the stick: www.abitechsupply.com/product-category/neon-supplies/neon-glass/
there are probably more that im not thinking of at the moment but those off the top of my head should get you started.
@@NeonPreservation If I where to make and use a 80% neon and 20% argon tube without mercury, what would be the long term ramifications?
mixing gases (i.e., a Penning mixture) is commonplace in the neon sign industry. it is most often done to outdoor tubes in cold climates. Neon gas has a higher electrical resistance than Argon, and by adding neon to Argon/Mercury tubes it will cause them to run slightly warmer and keep the mercury vaporized in the tube, preventing dimming of the tubes in cold weather.
pure Argon alone glows a faint pale lavender, but pure Neon alone is a bright reddish/orange. if you make a tube with 80% Ne & 20% Ar, the illumination from the Neon will overpower the Argon and the tube will glow like a regular neon-filled tube; e.g., bright reddish/orange.
Usually red doesn't snake like blue. But everything looks good when you lit that. My question is why you use a stick to push the button? You know it is only a 12v relay to the magnetic contractor and it's not even 120v so your chances of electrical shock are non existent.
i am using a scrap of 18mm glass tubing to press the deadman switch... basically due to an overabundance of caution. i am completely self-taught and i set up all my equipment by myself, so with no experience and no mentor i am being extremely cautious. i'd rather not accidentally get hit by the secondary output of the bombarding transformer.
Do you know if it possible to make tubes without the bombarding process?
If it is, I'll think twice about working with that high current.
(This is already my 3rd question, so I hope I don't annoy you too much ; ) )
not annoying at all, sharing information is one of the reasons i make these videos :)
the output current of a bombarder is deadly, so it is wise to have a fear of it! it is possible to make tubes without bombarding by using the oven pumping process. the tube is heated in an oven to the appropriate temperature while the vacuum pump removes the impurities, then the electrodes are processed with magnetic induction.
no high-voltage required, just an oven large enough to fit the tube. some people build their own ovens, like this one by Mundy Hepburn, who makes plasma art:
th-cam.com/video/LvTFTQxjFU4/w-d-xo.html
And would the tube Funktion If you don't process it at all?
Or can you process them with a normal neon transformator if you process it in little parts so the resistance isn't that high?
a tube that is not processed will light, but only for a couple of minutes. it will get very hot due to all the electrical resistance of all the impurities present, and the internal pressure will rise to the point where it can no longer sustain an arc.
a normal neon transformer does not output enough current to process a tube. generally, electrodes should be processed at least 10 times the manufacturers mA rating to fully activate the getter on the electrodes (e.g., 300mA for an electrode rated for 30mA). the glass needs to reach a minimum temperature of 225-250°C and the electrodes need to be glowing bright orange (c. 1000°C).
those requirements take more current than a standard neon transformer has, which is why a bombarding transformer is used.
@@NeonPreservation and will it process successfully, if I use a rather cold and big flame to process the tube itself and then a electromagnetic induction heater to process the electrodes?
( im searching for a way, where you dont need to build a big oven or buy a bombarder)
the problem with heating small areas is that while one area is being heated, another area is cooling, and the impurities released while heating will be deposited onto and reabsorbed into the part of the glass that is cooling.
not to mention uneven heating of the glass will cause thermal expansion/stress issues and likely cause the tube to shatter.
Could you try and make a plasma globe that contains Ne and Ar?
yes i could! i have tanks of neon and argon... i would probably have to get an oven/kiln built for processing because of the size of a plasma globe would dissipate heat too quickly if i attempted to process it the way i did with this smaller diameter tube.
Video once it done?
haha. yes, if i attempt such an undertaking i will be sure to document it!
Cool!
What's a torr? I know mechanics and some chemistry, but I don't know what a torr is.
a Torr is a unit of pressure; 1 Torr = 1 mmHg. atmospheric pressure is (generally) around 760 Torr, so neon tubes are evacuated to an extremely low pressure (milliTorr), and a tiny bit of noble gas is added. in this case i filled the tube to 9 Torr, which is 1.18% of atmospheric pressure... so still mostly a vacuum inside!
I was a Tubebender for 20 years,,,It is definetly a fun Gig,,,Unless your in a Factory bending channel letters all day (boring),,,,I was lucky and did art and other folks visions,,,rebuilt old signs and Custom bedroom lighting for some rock stars,,,,good Times
right on! i am excited for all the possibilities of interesting signage & art i will be able to create!
Sunset in a bottle 🤫
Seen this and dropped you a DM on FB.
where did you get your training and equipment? Seems like you got it all off a retired artist
i purchased the equipment used; it came from a closed neon shop.
i have no formal training; i am self-taught. i spent years reading and studying anything i could find about neon to get to this point. it would definitely be faster to learn from a professional.
WOW GOOD 구독 좋아요~^^👍👍👍👏👏👏
thank you!
Hi im looking for Neon Gas And Argon Gas you have because i want
if you're looking for high-purity noble gas to use for sign making your local sign shop should be able to get them for you. you can buy smaller quantities (1L-2.25L) of noble gas at atmospheric pressure in glass bottles that attach to neon manifolds:
prosites-llcwccd.homestead.com/NEON-GAS.html
you might be able to find something to suit your application on ebay. keep in mind if you are looking for compressed gas cylinders like i have, there may be a haz-mat fee involved in shipping.
lower purity argon gas is commonly used as a shielding gas for welders, that can be easily purchased at a welding supply shop.
@@NeonPreservation hi how to order this web site
you have to call on the phone
@@NeonPreservation amm how about in philippines
@@NeonPreservation what if there is on messenger?
hey i questioned myself why lamps like these are filled with a gas and not just filled with nitrogen ?
the physical & chemical characteristics of the gas molecules dictate which gas is used. Neon gas, for example, emits the bright reddish-orange glow, and has a higher electrical resistance than say, Argon, which is a pale lavender with lower resistance. other Nobel Gases are used for artistic purposes; He, Kr, & Xe each give off a unique color and behave differently at different pressures.
you can use Nitrogen, Iodine, even flammable gases like Propane as long as there is no oxygen for combustion. speaking of oxygen, you can fill a tube with it, but as one might imagine, the electrodes will quickly oxidize. plain ol' atmospheric air has a very high electrical resistance and a tube filled with air will light, but will quickly overheat and burn out. air is, however, used as a tool in bombarding (as shown in this video), because it allows the user to heat the tube to burn out the impurities.
many gases were tested in the infancy of the technology a century ago; they landed on Neon & Argon because they are inert and have the desired characteristics.
Sir i am from India i learn this can you halp me
hello, have you tried talking to some local neon benders near you? i know India is a large country, but perhaps the bender in this video is near you, or maybe he knows other neon benders in India?
th-cam.com/video/LJEWRZ3rWF0/w-d-xo.html
@@NeonPreservation ok sir thanks so much
@@NeonPreservation sir where are you from
i am from the United States of America
Can you make one for me
hi there, i am merely an amateur; but a professional neon bender will be able to make any custom design you want!
if you can find a bender in your local area you won't have to worry about shipping.
@@NeonPreservation i live in india and there is no one who can make this type of things
this gentleman is in India... perhaps he can make a sign for you, or knows someone near you who can, his contact information is in the description on this video:
th-cam.com/video/LJEWRZ3rWF0/w-d-xo.html
dont suck use the flame to shrink it then blow
thanks for the tip, i'll have to give that a try!
Would you please sign my petition?
Now put filament electrodes on one so be preheat
This processing not correct.
as a self-taught amateur i have to learn by trial & error. would you care to provide comments on how i should improve my technique?
There are many differing methods of processing, and anyone who knows Neon will know that this method is in fact “correct” as you can see from the results, furthermore it is a very well known and widely used method
I too use this method in one shop, and in another shop I use another method in which the main stop cock is left open through the entire bombarding process, meaning you do not need to open and close the main valve to inject air etc, you simply strike it up continue to bombard while the system pulls down, and the choke is increased incrementally (not just at the latter stages) until the correct milliamps and temp is achieved
The shop where I use the method shown in this video has the exact same Daco manifold, which calls for this exact method to be used, the other shop has a very different manifold hence a variation of method - and the results are exactly the same
One shop uses a temp gauge, the other uses 250° heat crayon, ya get me?
There are many more methods than this, many of which all bring a similar result and will vastly vary depending on where you are located in the world - for instance shops in Europe will have vastly different processing techniques than shops in say, Australia where I’m from
To say this method of processing is “incorrect” is simply not true. Keep it up brother your channel is awesome! 🙌🏼
@@benjaminkonto8331 i appreciate the words of encouragement! the tube i made in this video has been burning basically 24/7 for almost two years. it runs lightly warm to the touch (like a normal neon-filled tube), and there is no sputtering at the electrodes. so, i guess the processing wasn't THAT terribly "incorrect," especially for the first try.
i have noticed in all the documentation of bombarding techniques i've read, they all differ in one way or another; like in the examples you provided.
basically, it seems "correct" way is to meet the requirements of: heating the tube enough to burn off the impurities, having enough current to activate the getter on the electrodes, fully evacuating to a deep vacuum, and backfilling to the correct pressure.
there are many techniques & tools available to accomplish these steps.
Exactly. To be honest this method of processing is fairly new to me, and I have had to read up, watch and learn from multiple sources to find the correct balance of technique
The majority of my bombarding experience (only around 6 years) has been on a “constant evac” system, as described above, which I personally I find is an easier process, as it cuts out the need for multiple pull downs and air injection, but, I’ve heard the process you are utilising here is a “cleaner” and more refined process
The Daco training video was one source I utilised, and your process very closely mirrors what is shown in that video. The original VHS tapes came with the neon shop job lot that I purchased back in 2017 😂😂
I think what’s commendable is that this result was achieved with only a rotary vacuum, no turbo or diff. I know one person who uses two inline rotaries to obtain the vacuum needed, but everyone else either uses turbo or metal body diffs. That’s crazy when you think about it! 👊🏼
@@benjaminkonto8331 that Welch 1402 i have is an absolute workhorse! i got it for a steal on eBay in "working but untested" condition and all i did was an oil change & force flush and install a KF-25 intake.
i am amazed at how well it works; but i will be adding a glass diffusion pump to the setup eventually so i can reach ultimate vacuum faster. im always looking for ways to improve my tube quality by improving my setup & technique!