Making a part: Drink bottle adaptors

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2022
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ความคิดเห็น • 288

  • @broheim23
    @broheim23 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    "Some people say 304 stainless work hardens, I say your tools get dull."
    Spot on, Stefan. I keep watching to hear gems like this. 👍

  • @HanstheTraffer
    @HanstheTraffer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +97

    Your generosity in sharing your skills is educating a whole generation of budding machinists...Thank You.

    • @iteerrex8166
      @iteerrex8166 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      It’s even more valuable to the none machinists.

    • @Ale_Lab
      @Ale_Lab 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      100% agree. Too good to be true

    • @Metaldetectiontubeworldwide
      @Metaldetectiontubeworldwide 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      your profile Photo got me hypnotized...lol

    • @williammills5111
      @williammills5111 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Amen to that!

  • @StefanGotteswinter
    @StefanGotteswinter  2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    First.

    • @HanstheTraffer
      @HanstheTraffer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Hahahahhahahaha....You cheated!

  • @Noise-Bomb
    @Noise-Bomb 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    I love when you throw some German in there. Your Dialekt gets me every time :D

    • @hondacota4rt
      @hondacota4rt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      "Hohlstooohl"

    • @robertluo72
      @robertluo72 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Same here. I think I either heard it for the first time or forgot. I lived in the area for a couple of years. But somehow didn’t think about you speaking the dialect ;)

  • @michedmck
    @michedmck ปีที่แล้ว +2

    32:38 "The difference between the expert and the beginner is the expert knows when to stop!" Machining quote of the day!!! Well said, Mein Herr!!!

  • @kevinkohler2750
    @kevinkohler2750 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This video was just a perfect combination of narration/explanation, ASMR machining footage, and 4x footage for repetitive tasks. And a big +1 for the German vocab! Mehr, bitte!

  • @SpookyMcGhee
    @SpookyMcGhee 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Stefan I love the videos a lot. I work as a manual machinist and watching your videos (along with Abom79 and This Old Tony) have taught me quite a lot about machining. Thank you for the great content and for the education

  • @joelhart9020
    @joelhart9020 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Amazing how much work goes into designing all the things we see every day and take for granted, thanks for sharing

  • @davidrule1335
    @davidrule1335 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    22:25 That's right! Even though there is a thousand videos on the 29.5 deg compound setting. My 1942 Machinist Hand Book says it's A-OK to feed straight in.

  • @youpattube1
    @youpattube1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you Stefan for another very engaging project.

  • @davidjames1007
    @davidjames1007 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great job as always, thanks for sharing your knowledge and skill.

  • @2lefThumbs
    @2lefThumbs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I *was* wondering why you needed to beef up the thread, thanks for the explanation at the end👍 - Thanks also for adding in some German phrases to add to the educational aspect of your videos!

  • @TheJoyofPrecision
    @TheJoyofPrecision 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very cool project, I'm glad they allowed you to show and discuss it. Neat idea!

  • @DanielPerez-bn9bi
    @DanielPerez-bn9bi 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent video presentation as always Stefan! Thank you!

  • @stewartfrye
    @stewartfrye 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank You Stefan, for your videos, but mostly for your honesty and skills. Great Job on a hard task.

  • @markwatters6875
    @markwatters6875 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent, clean work. Thank you for taking us along on the journey. All the best 👍🇦🇺

  • @williambramer8217
    @williambramer8217 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    A wonderful jaunt through prototyping a new design including the inevitable tooling jigs. Well thought out work sequence as usual.

  • @johnnym1320
    @johnnym1320 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    very nice work as per usual Stefan, I myself use the same method of coring out stock. I can't tell you how many times I've used the cores for other parts.

  • @Preso58
    @Preso58 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Stefan. It was nice to see the full product at the end. Seeing that put the rest of the work in context.

  • @jothain
    @jothain 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Thank you for showing everything and not skimping on information. I've been planning "for ages" to get some small lathe as a hobby. Haven't really used lathe or machined in 20 years and about all was at school. It's interesting to see actual skilled workers and their solutions and I specifically enjoy seeing creative solutions like that grinder mounted on tool post. Two thumbs up!

  • @robscully3312
    @robscully3312 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What an interesting project. I used to have to hand file blunt start threads quite often. It was a job i hated. Here in England we called it "half dogging " a screw thread.

  • @tmurray1972
    @tmurray1972 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Beautiful execution on the thread convolute, and mad deburring skills. The
    deburr job really makes the part.👌🏻👏🏻

  • @markshort9098
    @markshort9098 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That tool post router is awesome.. I've never seen one before but I've often thought about making one to try, it's good to see one in action

  • @loejohn509
    @loejohn509 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm in awe at the amount of work it must take not only to make all those parts but to record and edit it all as well! Thank you!

  • @Engineerd3d
    @Engineerd3d 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Stefan. This is some wonderful work. Only you can come up with a 45 minute video for cutting threads and you have me focusing hard on it and learning something in every frame. Thank you!

  • @jdmccorful
    @jdmccorful 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    At your level your "oneoffs" are probably highly sought after. All around really nice presentation Steph. Thanks for the look and skill demo.

  • @joed2392
    @joed2392 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Most Excellent ! You are a Lathe & Mill Artisan !!! Thanks for sharing!

  • @MichaelMoranGearHead
    @MichaelMoranGearHead 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This video was full of useful tips❣️ Thank you Stefan.

  • @campbellmorrison8540
    @campbellmorrison8540 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love watching your work, its so far away from my level but its fantastic to know what can be done with the knowledge and gear. Really appreciate the effort it takes to make these video's

  • @glennfelpel9785
    @glennfelpel9785 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Absolutely beautiful work. I sure do appreciate your ideas and techniques. Thank you for the very well done video.

  • @first_namelast_name4923
    @first_namelast_name4923 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for taking time to film this while working. It was highly educational and entertaining as always.

  • @greglaroche1753
    @greglaroche1753 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are always doing something interesting. Thanks.

  • @Ryan-dz3jo
    @Ryan-dz3jo 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just a privilege to watch and listen, camera angles are fantastic. Thank you very much.

  • @TheUncleRuckus
    @TheUncleRuckus 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video as always Stefan, thank you for sharing your knowledge, I always learn something new. 👍👍

  • @charlvanniekerk8009
    @charlvanniekerk8009 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Super impressive!
    Safe to say we will all be learning a lot from you!

  • @RobertBrown-lf8yq
    @RobertBrown-lf8yq 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Stefan 👍
    It is always a pleasure watching you do prototyping, and machine upgrades, and ‘acquiring’ cool machines, and….. the list goes on 🤣
    Regards
    Robert

  • @KTK4321
    @KTK4321 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another excellent VDO. Thanks for sharing.

  • @bobuk5722
    @bobuk5722 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    To paraphrase ...."Oh, by the way, I made a Weldon tool holder ... with two ejectors in case I got one wrong" I just love Stefan's throw away lines.

  • @tabaks
    @tabaks 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your engineering reasoning, decisions and execution are nothing short of amazing! German engineering at its best! Respekt!

  • @captcarlos
    @captcarlos 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you Stephan,
    Instructive as always.

  • @kevinrblodgett
    @kevinrblodgett 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Particularly good explanations in this one! And I really appreciate the German lessons

  • @bellybutthole
    @bellybutthole 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your attention to detail is always on point!
    As we are in Germany; Falkenbach - Eweroun

  • @JB-ol4vz
    @JB-ol4vz 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic work as always, thanks for sharing your skills. Cheers from Sweden.

  • @joeziegler9054
    @joeziegler9054 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have just stumbled across your channel amazing work! I have been a machinist for about 25 years now. I work in the die industry. It's always rewarding for me to watch another machinist work that knows what their doing. Keep up the great work!!

  • @franknukemcomegetsome2744
    @franknukemcomegetsome2744 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you Stefan!😸

  • @nickfox6339
    @nickfox6339 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another good one Stefan thank you.

  • @markfulmer8501
    @markfulmer8501 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the excellent teaching lesson. Using the tool post grinder/router to cut down the web of the thread was interesting. I always take away new ideas !

  • @Metaldetectiontubeworldwide
    @Metaldetectiontubeworldwide 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    No , your absolutly not a lazy person !!
    Impossible when you make such cool stuff , and makes beautifull videos of it !
    greetings from the netherlands your budy Johny Geerts

  • @outsidescrewball
    @outsidescrewball 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video production along with super discussion/demonstration/build

  • @tomeyssen9674
    @tomeyssen9674 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very nice, thank you for that. Enjoyed as usual.

  • @robertsneddon731
    @robertsneddon731 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Making your own toolpost spindle would be an interesting project. I'm drawing up plans to make one for our lathe based on off-the-shelf shafts, bearings and other parts intended for cheap 3D printers and routers and the like.

  • @metalslingr
    @metalslingr 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video! The music at the end was a nice touch. 👍

  • @rootvalue
    @rootvalue 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Your lathe runs so quietly for how much power it delivers. I love watching your work and seeing your tools.

    • @aaronhammond7297
      @aaronhammond7297 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Shame about the squealing while boring. My ears!

    • @stephanuhu963
      @stephanuhu963 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've been admiring this silent running of Stefan's Maximat as well, as mine is nothing like as quiet as this.
      What oil do you fill the headstock with mr. Gotteswinter?
      Probably my gears are simply more worn...

  • @bobluthier3031
    @bobluthier3031 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yesssssss! Im here to get my brain sharpened, thank you for all the german/english translations, I genuinly try to mimic them every time i hear one. And also...thanks for all the machining stuff too of course. Cheers from vermont

  • @andypughtube
    @andypughtube 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I made a dedicated 30mm holder for my annular cutters which fits in the Multifix holder. ie, taking the MT2 out of the system.
    (The other end of the 30mm holder has an 18mm socket for my boring bars, ie the ones that fit the UPA3)

  • @myideas8548
    @myideas8548 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very informative. Wonderfully meticulous. Thanks!

  • @martinseelig585
    @martinseelig585 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the "some say it work-hardens, i say your tools get dull" made me LOL

  • @Maikshifter
    @Maikshifter 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another excellent video Stefan. And thanks for the free hearing tests at 7m32s and 11m35s. As a musician it was quite reassuring to confirm I still have pretty good high frequency hearing 🙂

  • @graemebrumfitt6668
    @graemebrumfitt6668 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Enjoyed every minute of this Stefan! TFS, GB :)

  • @mikebeacom4883
    @mikebeacom4883 ปีที่แล้ว

    In woodworking, the expert knows how to hide his mistakes.

  • @JB-ol4vz
    @JB-ol4vz 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantasic. Thank you for machining manual. Your King Man. Cheers from A very snowy Swe. Stay safe buddy. 👊

  • @HP_rep_mek
    @HP_rep_mek 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video as always Stefan👍

  • @MachiningandMicrowaves
    @MachiningandMicrowaves 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Always a pleasurable way to spend time watching the latest activity from the GTWR secret mountain lair, sorry, workshop. Just a marvellous viewing experience. I must sharpen up my rotten editing skills....

  • @TrPrecisionMachining
    @TrPrecisionMachining 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hello forn spain ..very good video stefan..thanks for your time

  • @skiptracer8703
    @skiptracer8703 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice Work as always Stefan

  • @AmateurRedneckWorkshop
    @AmateurRedneckWorkshop 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Expensive drink bottles. Well done as usual.

  • @thomasrappen5906
    @thomasrappen5906 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    woow, new music.... thx4 sharing, and, again, wonderful to see you, doing it, your way....

  • @andrewdolinskiatcarpathian
    @andrewdolinskiatcarpathian 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Masterclass 👌

  • @dennisthatcher4384
    @dennisthatcher4384 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would have guessed it was for liquid nitrogen or oxygen. Looks to be industrial strength.
    Exceptional work as always. Thanks for sharing.

  • @DudleyToolwright
    @DudleyToolwright 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Really nice work, as always. I hope you end up making it out to the BarZ bash some year. I would really enjoy meeting you in person.

  • @aubreyaub
    @aubreyaub 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Roto Broach, or Annular Cutters, are a magnificent piece of tooling.

  • @mftmachining
    @mftmachining 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Klasse Arbeit, Stefan. Ungewöhnliches Projekt, mal was ganz anderes.

  • @michaelkoch2109
    @michaelkoch2109 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Auf so eine Idee muß man erst mal kommen. Weiter so! Du hast Grips, geschickte Hände und offensichtlich Spaß dabei. Diese Kombi sollte sich irgendwann mal so richtig auszahlen! Ich würde es Dir von Herzen gönnen! - Grüße aus DD!

  • @pep2tize
    @pep2tize 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    this a very soft and malleable material you could easily flatten it and roll form the new double thread that requires a fine machining your style !

  • @mpetersen6
    @mpetersen6 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    CNMG-431/2 inserts were always my go to insert for turning work. Even in lathes as small as a Hardinge or even small hobby bench lathes. Of course as you go down in power the depth of cut and feed need to be considered. One thing I always liked about the Hardinge lathes was the variable speed DC motor on the feed drive*. It was very easy to dial the feed rate in for good chip control. Unfortunately there are certain materials that just do not break the chip no matter what you do.
    *a great modification for any bench lathe as is a Single Tooth Reversing Dog Clutch for threading.

    • @piter_sk
      @piter_sk 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      our TOS SV18RA lathe has that single tooth dog clutch for threading.... threading became really easy with it... it also comes with a little lever on the toolpost which allows you to retract around 10mm out of way, so you don´t have to mess with your crosslide handwheel... it´s stock thing, but I always loved it

    • @mpetersen6
      @mpetersen6 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@piter_sk
      Is it just one direction or both ways. It's one of those things that probably does not add that much cost to the lathe considering they can eliminate the Thread Dial assembly. And the retract lever on the compound. That was something Hardinge had also. One thing people do not seem to understand about setting up gearing for cutting any thread form be it Inch, metric, Module or Diameteral Pitch is it's all about the ratio between the leadscrew and the spindle. If the leadscrew is say 4mm for the pitch and you need to cut a 1.5mm pitch the ratio is 1.5÷4 or .375. Or if there is a QCGB and the leadscrew is say 4TPI. Then cutting a 8TPI thread requires a .5 ratio. I've looked into building my own gearbox for threading and determining the gearing in the selector box is not that hard. And yes a single tooth reversing dog clutch was include. But the STRDC must run the same speed as the spindle. Otherwise they won't repeat.

  • @FinnoUgricMachining
    @FinnoUgricMachining 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Stefan, thanks for sharing this (and editing and whatnot) !
    I have now for some time adopted a habit to not to knock the workpiece to seat it into the jaws. Instead I push it either with something in the toolpost or in the tailstock and then tighten the jaws. This is because I have had difficulties with the workpiece jumping away from the jaws when knocking it. I know it is something that happens if You knock it too hard. With pushing this does not happen.

    • @joansparky4439
      @joansparky4439 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      That's probably why he used a hammer with animal hide on it (dampening the blow) while also having the part tightened a tiny bit before using the hammer.. there should be no spring-back if you do it that way.

  • @OG1
    @OG1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ahhh hot! I can't count how many times I have done this lol. Love your vids man, thank you.

  • @dalejones4186
    @dalejones4186 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hi Stephan. I really enjoy your videos. They are instructional and step by step just like I like to watch. Also you have the uncanny ability to communicate and teach both professionals and non professionals at the same time. You are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your journeys.

  • @bigwave_dave8468
    @bigwave_dave8468 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "Some people say it work hardens, I say your tools get dull"...hahahahaha...I needed a good laugh today!..now I'm inspired to make a crude hopper funnel (no threads) out of aluminum for my coffee grinder. Thanks for the video. PS: now i have to go inspect all my bottles...

    • @Gottenhimfella
      @Gottenhimfella 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The range of tensile strengths for 304 in Stefan's chart provides a woeful telltale -- given that the analysis does not vary, it can only arise from strain hardening.

  • @bigbird2100
    @bigbird2100 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video 👍 Stefan so all that Great camera work and editing and educational machining was to make a mobile Soda stream 😊!

  • @RichardHeadGaming
    @RichardHeadGaming 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice prototyping work.

  • @CraigLYoung
    @CraigLYoung 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for sharing 👍

  • @Cancun771
    @Cancun771 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    17:38 One of these days we will need a gruesome, special.effects laden video about the background of how all these safety precautions came to pass.
    _"Staplerfahrer Klaus hat auf Dreher umgeschult"_
    _"High Impact Hand Safety vol. II: Surviving Edged Chuck Jaws"_

  • @rickvaneijck3016
    @rickvaneijck3016 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice work

  • @kreglamirand2637
    @kreglamirand2637 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Way to save the lightbulb moment for the end my friend! I knew pressure had to be involved but a built in CO2 cylinder, that's clever.

  • @adhawk5632
    @adhawk5632 ปีที่แล้ว

    Epic stainless water bottles, wow👍👌🇦🇺

  • @michaelpiotrowicz6100
    @michaelpiotrowicz6100 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Classic GTWR

  • @brucekoehler276
    @brucekoehler276 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    thank you

  • @davidrule1335
    @davidrule1335 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    3:25 In my experience drilling 304-stanless, you must keep a chip going. If it ever "rubs" (no chip) it's very hard to press through. Often I would change the angle of the twist drill To pointier then flatter until I break through the hard stuff, then re-sharpen as normal.

  • @leopeter9051
    @leopeter9051 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ich muss gestehen, als ich das Gewinde gesehen hab und dann das mit der Gaskartusche, hab' ich mir gedacht, das dass eine echte Rohrbombe werden könnte wenn man da zu lange 'sprudelt'. Aber beim Kickstarter steht zum Glück, dass es ein Druckablassventil gibt.
    Interessantes Projekt

    • @StefanGotteswinter
      @StefanGotteswinter  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Zusätzlich: Für die Flaschen gabs einen Drucktest der über dem Dampfdruck vom Co2 liegt ;)

  • @DavidHerscher
    @DavidHerscher 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I use a lot of 304 because it's what my local supply house carries. They have a very limited selection. It takes a bit of getting used to, it's not the best cutting, but it's nice once you get used to dealing with it and you can get nice finishes out of it.

    • @Gottenhimfella
      @Gottenhimfella 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, in my youth it was always easy to get 303 as well as 304 (the former machines a lot more easily, and in particular is much nicer for tapping) but now everyone seems only to stock 304 (because it can be welded, and it halves their inventory). So i tend to go to the extra expense of 316 which machines about as well as 303 (the price differential is no longer crippling as it once was, so I guess it's actually a good change)

  • @drevil4454
    @drevil4454 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In the 80's that bottle would've been used to make a 50cc motorcycle aftermarket exhaust pipe 😂😂

  • @SamEEE12
    @SamEEE12 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am a simple man, I see a Stefan Gotteswinter video; I smash the like button.

  • @notsonominal
    @notsonominal 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    .. you had me at "drink" .. cheers!

  • @franciscoanconia2334
    @franciscoanconia2334 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm so glad you could finally afford a color camera!.

  • @leetrengove7921
    @leetrengove7921 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Am I the only one who’s skin crawls and get shivers up my spine when I see long stringy stainless steel swarf.. lol..

  • @stevensmart8868
    @stevensmart8868 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video and work once again.was nice to see the final product prototype.
    10 off those nearly CNC work ?

  • @1ginner1
    @1ginner1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Stefan, When cutting soft jaws, in my experience it is better to clamp the jaws in the orientation you will be tightening the job in. So if you are gripping in a bore you would clamp the jaws with a ring on the outside of the jaws, this will eliminate any backlash in the scroll and jaws. Best wishes, Mal.

  • @westweld
    @westweld 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well that was pretty 😎

  • @kolbroshop884
    @kolbroshop884 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video, always learn something new from you. One remark. You are cutting 3mm pitch thread, and your leadscrew is also 3mm, .
    This means that you don't need to have always closed half nut. You can engage leadscrew at any position. It will always be in alignment... Seems easier, and can be more relaxed when cutting it...

    • @Gottenhimfella
      @Gottenhimfella 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Stefan mentions that possibility, at about 24:20, but he mentions that due to habit (muscle memory) he prefers to stick to what he calls the "European" way, keeping half nuts engaged and backing up.
      To me it is not so much European as "metric", as metric leadscrews make it unfeasible to disengage the half nuts, even when doing metric threads which are not a whole multiple of the leadscrew pitch.
      This arises because of the way pitch is defined (with the length unit as the numerator -- rather than the length unit as a denominator, with value of 1, as in tpi.
      If metric threads were denominated in "threads per dm" rather than "mm per thread", a threading dial would obviously be viable.
      It's about the one indisputable advantage I can think of attached to the inch system, and it's why at least one metric lathe manufacture decided to use tpi leadscrews on all their manual lathes -- the one I'm aware of being CMT on their Ursus range -- as it makes the provision of a dual language gearbox simpler, both mechanically and operationally. Of course with CNC, the problem dissolves.
      One French lathe manufacturer (Caseneuve) came up with a threading dial for metric threadcutting, but while characteristically brilliant, it was outrageously complicated. There was also an English third party attempt, branded Ainjest, IIRC, which never really caught on.