I thought Breather was gonna be a sidegrade but I'm pretty sure it's just a net nerf. The combination of the lowered DR and much slower healing speed means that if you heal in a firefight, it barely is enough to cancel incoming damage, so you're basically just stalling, and other tanks can do that way better. Old Breather was just this big old chunk of healing that would push your health back up even if you took a few hits in the meantime.
Not having to worry about CC so much makes this breather better overall even with the number nerfs. Before, you used to be terrified of any CC shit they’d stun you and cancel the ability, now, you can just resume healing afterwards.
@@Memo-yh4ncthat one upside does not make it better. 30% DR is a joke and you die so fast. Literally just Zen alone reduces your DR down to 5% making it useless. It's a nerf
i dont mind the primary fire, but i feel like he should be able to hold it to 'charge it up' and shoot it like his old secondary fire with less spread and more accuracy.
@@codybraendle9214 Spam this everywhere forever so it eventually reaches Blizzard. It's a perfect way to have that secondary fire animation be used again too.
The sad thing about the DR reduction is now Breather is just channeled armor. 150 hps and armor does not compensate for being unable to do anything, Ram block and Doom block have like 75% DR. They need to go back to 50% DR on breather or split the difference, 30% is a joke when compared with similar abilities.
They lower hogs DR but dooms im pretty sure is 80 or 90 rams is also 80 or 90 and orisas fortify is 40. Granted none of those ablilities heal you but for how slow it looks and with its cooldown at least make it 40
I love his trap as a hog main, I can lock down squishes in the trap and get 1-tap-Malee or one tap or 2 taps with it, his healing DR is really rough, I find my self still very low HP on a full USE CHARGE but it is what it is, I’ll take it
This trap ability seems not helpful to hog, his team, or to play around. Rest of the rework seems very minor too. Thought this rework would give his hook more utility or something.
honestly he seems kinda worse. idk maybe I'm just dogshit but his trap isn't very impactful and his breather cooldown is so long I just get shit on. plus now you can't one shot Squishies unless you hook them into the trap.
yeah I was gonna say the same. He seems so squishy now and doesn't look any better except for damage increase. Now it seems like you actually need good healers to keep you up lol
Oh but that's the best part - He only has more dmg at midrange. He actually does less dmg up close now with the reduction to headshot dmg. So yeah, it may only be day 1, but jeez this rework feels awful if I'm being honest. I at least, definitely did significantly better with the old hog. Not doomering quite yet, because I do think this might just be fixable with numbers tweaks, but does this feel bas right here and now.
His biggest issue was getting destroyed by stuns/anti and they fixed that with his new self heal New primary fire is way more versatile at all ranges Trap lets you one shot/protect yourself or your team I think the real issue is everyone is playing him like before, when he doesnt really have that much damage reduction anymore
@@bbc-_-5338 I see what you're saying, but I really just do not see what Roadhog gets used for anymore now. Maybe this is just 'cause I tend to play whatever fits my team & map and don't one-trick Hog, but now that his up close damage isn't as impressive and his survivability has taken an enormous hit, I just don't know what he does that other Tanks don't already do better. He does most of his damage at medium range now, where he's competing with Zarya, Sigma, and Orisa. Not only stiff competition, but also a stiff competition of characters who are honestly kinda better at keeping themselves alive now compared to Hog. Idk, I feel like all he has now is Whole Hog, and that is something, but it really seems like a tough sell to hinge his worth on that.
The new primary fire seems... off? It has a really wide cone of pellets but doesnt have horrible poke. If I were a new player, Id assume this was a close range only shotgun type weapon. I think they should make the spread a lot tighter to make it more sensible as a ranged weapon.
@@dronnovik95 obviously not, you know how long development is gonna take when you need new concept art, voice lines, models, textures, effects and code?
@@dronnovik95correct. Cyx said he playtested changes month ago and breather was old breather but with team heal, and trap behaved differently. They literally pulled this together in less than a month. Also, this means they have no clear vision of what hog has to be, but Alec admitted to this on a stream so this isn't a secret.
@@Lex_en_vrai I just don’t see the potential if I’m being honest. I think if they reworked the gun and left the heal as it was it would be much better for hog. He would be able to take space the same way as before, just with more damage to force enemies back.
I agree with cyx but it feels like he's not gonna be able to take on shields too well so rein ram and sig will have an advantage on him so long as they use their shields correctly
It´s not actually a 12 second cooldown but it takes 12 seconds for it to be completly recharge when empty. As long as it has some charge you can use it. I compare it to Moira´s healing where you have to manage how much you use and when.
Some of yall are geniuinely just dumb lmao, his versatility and impact on the game skyrocketed so much that you gotta be just dogshit to think he got worse
@@tommasoaiello2593 not even close. Hog has to one shot again, thats the only reason people played hog in the past. Without oneshot, hes just a throwpick in gm1
They buffed his damage from 150 to 160 so it can secure more shots on the 200 heroes and the center has 4 large pellets that can do up to 60 (headshots for120) as well which can hit at mid-range now and can be combo'd with Pig Pen now which can even get the tank killed sometimes. Things that bothered me was the rate of his heal, it seems its reduced since the total time is increased and on a meter doing a higher cap but I feel stuck in it longer. I'm guessing it's now 150 a second from 175. I'm not used to that reduction in tandem with the damage reduction so it's difficult at the moment to gauge where I can escape. Ana will still make you useless and some other supports will chunk you down fast as you're a big target and it's easy to land head shots. Healing when nullified is rough, it's not as good as gaining shield health that some other tanks gain. And for QOL, I miss being able to interrupt my heal with an ability, I don't remember if I still could with hook, I should check later, but would like to with Pig Pen.
@@bui3415 you seem to have missed the crit damage reduction drom x2 to x1.5 his max damage is 240 with everything to the head and just the middle pelets (idk how but still) would only do 90 damage instead of 120
The rework has the ability to be so good, and can still be fixed, I think they should up melee dmg or smthn so that he doesnt NEED trap to kill, and then up the numbers on take a breather and he will be better than before. But right now, he kinda feels awful to play, forced to wait for 2 cds to oneshot someone (confirmed oneshot). And he just feels so squishy it's painful.
I agree. The basic building blocks of the rework itself was a success. The resource meter, the trap, the primary fire rework. With that said, all that remains is number tuning. His DR needs to go back to 50%. His TaB CD needs to be lowered. Popping trap should do more. Right now i can pop trap fairly consistently, but outside the oneshot combo it doesn’t do so much. And most importantly, his interaction with enemy zen/ana needs to be looked at.
That's an Ana problem and not a Hog problem. That bitch needs a rework as well, she is to OW2 what Brig was to OW1. Also if you increase the dmg reduction do not decrease the vape cooldown as well. Baby steps. See what buffing one of those two does, otherwise you just risk going back to square one where one of the major complaints about Hog was how exceedingly tanky and unpunishable he was without the cunt grandma.
I agreed with everything up until the ana/zen and trap suggestions. Roadhog is a tank and just like any tank, he needs to have counters that ruin his day. Make his breather better with the DR and CD changes and it will help him but at the end of the day if the character has no counters or ways to outplay then it just becomes too OP.
Ana in general needs a rework tbh, I know she's so many people's favourite support that's 'fair' and uses 'skill shots' but the ease of application of her nade and sleep on tanks is pretty high. She has so much going for her in her kit, and she benefitted the most of any support from the addition of the support passive
@@eFRapidfire Yes. I get that landing a sleep dart on a Genji takes actual skill. But tanks like Mauga, hog and Rein (and also Bastion) are basically walking walls. As long as you aim in their general direction, it's harder to miss than to hit. Therefore the argument of "it's a skillshot" really only applies to Ana vs. DPS/Supports, and not at all when it comes to tanks. And the point is also that these abilities already provide so much value, that oftentimes it's much better to make sure the tank is anti'd instead of a DPS on the side.
I know you can hook people into the trap but it’s kinda niche, the trap doesn’t really help any of hogs problems. In fact hogs problems are now more prevalent because the 50% Damage reduction helped him get away from anti and damage and now he just explodes. The cooldown change on breather definitely helps with cc but until his kit is able to deal or at least escape form with discord orb or anti he won’t be very viable or in fact maybe even a little worse. If his take a breather or pig pen stats were tweaked he could provide a lot more utility and not feel as frustrating.
Overall I wouldn’t say I’m super impressed because Ana/zen seems so much scarier now but I heavily agree with cyx that adjusting the numbers is a really simple and likely fix. After a slight numbers buff I’d like to see how this hog plays
@@ohlookitsconnorits more that he performs much much worse against them. usually you can outplay your counters if you play a more difficult way but it seems with hog now they can just chase while you're healing and there is nothing hog can do to punish that since he takes too long to heal and has little DR.
Ive been enjoying this rework a bunch. Definitely is a buff for sure, and I'm sure he'll get nerfed actually after more people play him to his full potential
It's so disappointing that, after a year of being completely abandoned by the dev team, they still choose to leave hog in the weakest state he has ever been in. I was hoping they'd make hog at least a little good considering that he has been the worst hero in the game ever since they nerfed his "1-shot" but I guess Blizzard seems to care more about appeasing the hog haters than they do about making hog a viable character.
his healing was nerfed by 15%, his damage reduction was nerfed by 40%, but dont worry, his damage was buffed by a whole 6.5%. i'd rather have nerfed hog. he was more useful
Blizzard’s intentions with the change clearly aim to make him more anti dive. Judging from cyx’s gameplay, the trap is not a reliable way to get a one shot combo, however the guaranteed 90 dmg + slow on diving heroes is what will save this change. That, in addition to the primary fire being more consistent at medium range, hog will absolutely destroy in tracer/wb dives, as if he didn’t already
I’m masters and I’ve found that he performs very well against most tanks the ones I’ve been having the most success against are monkey, rein, ram and orisa sometimes even against sigmas and DVA when she is playing more in the frontline. The displacement and hook-trap synergy work very well against these tanks that need a lot of sustain making their supports get way out of position or waste cooldowns to try and stop the tank from getting melted by the traps damage and slow while you and your team lay into him.
I wonder if making it so you could do other actions while activating this new controllable take a breather would help. Like instead of huffing gas from a canister his mask just sort of does it by itself (but you control it still.) freeing up roadhog to multitask while activating it when needed.
Is his trap even a trap? I feel like I’ve seen several people just walk out of it. And it’s weird how it extends outward but you have to walk right on top of it for it to activate. Trap is a no go for me. I like the gun change. Much more consistent. Feels awesome to use. But holy his breather is almost useless it seems like. And his trap is horrible
I dont think the trap ability is that bad cuz you know theres always gonna be that one unlucky player on the enemy team that finds every junk rat trap, now theyll find every roadhog trap too.
Hitting with hook should immediately reset it's cooldown. Add another 1.5 seconds to the cooldown if it misses to reward accuracy. Take a breather should be able to cleanse hog if you breathe long enough. This will prompt players to use with more care so they have enough to cleanse themselves if needed. It's cooldown should also be shorter by a little. Pig Pen thingy is basically useless 😂. Should be replaced completely with something adrenaline related that gives him increased speed for a time. Hog rework done right
It's time to let it go, Hog is done. Make him viable people will complain that he's broken, make him unusable people will call it balanced 💀. There is no good answer for hog.
I like the changes overall but i think vape could use a little tweak in its balance between over all healing/burst healing/damage reduction. I personally would like to see the overall healing pool drop to 400 and the damage resist increased to 40% so you can mitigate damage a bit better.
Ah yes, exactly what Hog needed- a big nerf 😮💨 His right click was the only way he could pressure and damage snipers a bit or from long range... Now he is nothing more than a prey to any range character
i remember someone saying “so yeah this rework is gonna make him better at actually being a tank but yeah flank hog is dead” to that i say: FLANK HOG IS NEVER DEAD
Developer Comment: The broad goal of the Roadhog rework was to IMPROVE HIS FRONTLINE PRESENCE as a TANK hero . . . Anyway we're going to reduce the Damage Reduction by 20% and remove the amplified healing recieved on ending for his heal.
I don't understand why he keeps putting his Trap 50 meters away from the enemy? He placed it around a corner so many times just to walk forward and leave it behind. I'd be tossing it in front of me and hoping someone passes through it when I hook.
The damage reduction from 50% to 30% plus the heal is slower makes him easier to kill for that you got more constant damage and a new ability i played some hours and 1 shots with the trap is easier and you can use it to slow down enemies pushing you
I know his rework just came out.. But it feels really bad as a gm1 player. I would have given him. 3 charges of his heal, keep the 30% dmg reduction but make each healing maybe 250hp so theres still cast time and a net nerf but usable. Able to charge his hook to fly further, so more utlity at the cost of a charge time. 200 armor instead of health. Secondary fire a bunch of nails that have a slowing effect of maybe 15-20%. 4 shots and lower dmg. Focus on displacement and being the wall.
This looks so borring. Hog's weapon is classic double barrel SSG. Just make his primary a double shot with wide line checkers patter, like his ult, with big pushback as well, push enemies to the effective distance of secondary fire. Alternative fire is two semi-auto shots with little to no delay between them, old style ranged blasts but with less damage. Shots could be offset to sides like Diva's fire. Obviously ammo count to 12 and primary uses 2 per shot. When hook is successful keep target chained, and ability to grab the chain back, with melee button, once. No damage only reposition. Keep this new healing mechanic, remove trap (cause secondary fire is occupied). Done, more firing options, range control based on push and pull mechanics of hook+meelee grab and pushback from double shot. More opportunities fro environmental kills. 10 minutes idea.
They could’ve done something cooler. Like really play into his character style and have him release a noxious gas or throw bottles of liquid that puts stuff on the floor (and have it be beneficial for him whilst standing in it), make it slow or do damage idk. I could think of a million other things too. This is alright though, I guess. I’m just imagining a hog that creates larger space since he just gets absolutely beamed to death whenever even a pixel of him is on the enemy screen.
Cool changes. Just wish they would have kept the sound effects of the old secondary fire and used for new primary fire… I think it sounds chonkier and more fun?
I saw comments on ur livestream about someone asking you about the problem about how hog goes from .5 to heal 350 to 3 seconds to heal 450, it being 6 times as long seems like a problem.
instead of adding a trap, they should've made his right click a scrap shot that slows targets but does like 0 damage. If you are going to take his 1 shot mostly away, at least make it rewarding to constantly hook people in or help the team get picks by slowing at range. My2c
I love that instead of pumping out new characters or skins they're taking time to rebalance and rework old characters. Feels like the game is going in a better direction again
Old hog was better. Trap is boring and makes hero more complicated. The only thing they should've changed was his breather - resource based is fine, but rest numbers should've stayed the same (50% dr and 300hp). Bad rework.
Sig/Ana still DUMPSTERS Hog. Even with these changes, Hog is still B tier. BUT Hog has INSANE survivability if he has his whole take a breather. You are not killing him without nade or a stun lol. I was playing against him it was a me, a Sig, and a Moira vs Hog. The fight was over so it was just us two. We literally could not take him down and he regrouped with his team lmao GRANTED this was QP, but still. Good survivability under the right circumstances, but still B tier everywhere else Not to mention the Hog mirror is SOOOO slow and boring... It's literally "Whomever gets the hook first wins/whomever misses hook first loses"
The breather just straight up worse than before? And damn, only primary thingy kinda blows my accuracy numbers. Kinda hard seeing 14% weapon accuracy ngl🤣
Primary fire is the only good thing imo. Trap sucks (does too little imo) and his breather is mostly worse. You cant use it as a get out of jail free card, and you are open to even more cc bc it takes longer to use.
In all honesty I think breather should have maybe 40% instead of 30% but that’s just me but think about it there is stuff like discord mercy damage boost nano and a bunch of others that could basically make the 30% useless but other than that the rework is definitely a step in the right direction for hog for sure
I like the resource for the heal, removing the right click I don’t like, it helped him at mid range. The pig pen ability is whatever. Honestly disappointed. I would’ve preferred if they just gave him back the ability to consistently one shot 200hp hero’s and like some cc resistance or something. Like a self cleanse. Also did they get rid of his damage reduction while healing??
You just got to get used to having the utility now 😅. More options for hog with that. Just simply throw it down somewhere you can hook someone to it whenever you have the chance
a creative rework but yet they make a tank less of a tank and more of a fat dps...The worst thing about his heal now is that other damage reduction ability (doom, orisa, ram) have higher DR and cannot be countered by anti heal, Hog is just a punching bag with way to many tools to punish him
Queen needs her shotgun to work like this. Even if it deals less damage of course. The spread coupled with the game's overall speed makes shotguns and high spread weapons like tracer pistols feel so weird in OW
I haven't played new hog but queen looks WAY more consistent with her primary fire especially since she actually has a movement ability to get in close as a queen main if anything she definitely needs a slight nerf
Dunno about the changes. His primary fire having the 4-pellet range of his right click, with the benefit of still having some close-range scatter shots is a nice change, but they should've kept his right click as is though. Bring back the right-click, and up its damage to get rewarded for landing those small-scatter shots. Keep this new left-click because it rounds out how hog can do damage in close and far range. TLDR: Keep new left click, but make it for close/medium range only, bring back long range right-click, up its damage, tighten spread even more to reward skill. Also new heal is meh. If you have the time/safety to stand around and benefit from healing from 0-500+, your healers are probably near you by then anyways, or you've relocated your position. Make the E proc a cleanse on-use when you're below, lets say 25-30% max hp. This gets hog out of bad situations, but doesn't allow cleanse-abuse because of the hp requirement. I can think of another 5 things off the top of my head to make him better but not overtuned in the top 1%, and I can't believe a AAA team spent this long on a 'rework' for this to be the final product, lmao.
Take a breather was hard nerfed, they should either give it more dmg reduction or make it faster, i would make it faster to have less inactive time for hog.
The less damage reduction from TAB is ridiculous, it's his main way of tanking damage and they really gonna lower it? They really are punishing tanks for tanking damage?
Ohh yeah 30% damage reduction and 12 second for the total refill are numbers that can easily be adjusted, THE THING IS IF THEY WANT TO ADJUST THEM AT ALL
I thought Breather was gonna be a sidegrade but I'm pretty sure it's just a net nerf. The combination of the lowered DR and much slower healing speed means that if you heal in a firefight, it barely is enough to cancel incoming damage, so you're basically just stalling, and other tanks can do that way better.
Old Breather was just this big old chunk of healing that would push your health back up even if you took a few hits in the meantime.
Not having to worry about CC so much makes this breather better overall even with the number nerfs. Before, you used to be terrified of any CC shit they’d stun you and cancel the ability, now, you can just resume healing afterwards.
@@Memo-yh4nc Now, you don't need to worry about CC because you'll wind up dying anyway~!
@@Memo-yh4ncthat one upside does not make it better. 30% DR is a joke and you die so fast. Literally just Zen alone reduces your DR down to 5% making it useless. It's a nerf
@@AngrySecsthe flexibility makes up for the loss of damage reduction
@@AngrySecsand your uptime is way more with new breather so having 50 percent DR for that much uptime would make him too tanky
i dont mind the primary fire, but i feel like he should be able to hold it to 'charge it up' and shoot it like his old secondary fire with less spread and more accuracy.
That's a great idea
Omg that’s literally it. Good shit. How they didn’t think to do this is crazy?
that would actually be really cool and add another skillshot to his kit
Bring back secondary fire, you cowards!
@@codybraendle9214 Spam this everywhere forever so it eventually reaches Blizzard. It's a perfect way to have that secondary fire animation be used again too.
The sad thing about the DR reduction is now Breather is just channeled armor. 150 hps and armor does not compensate for being unable to do anything, Ram block and Doom block have like 75% DR. They need to go back to 50% DR on breather or split the difference, 30% is a joke when compared with similar abilities.
They lower hogs DR but dooms im pretty sure is 80 or 90 rams is also 80 or 90 and orisas fortify is 40.
Granted none of those ablilities heal you but for how slow it looks and with its cooldown at least make it 40
@@kourt7997 dooms gives you bonus damage, rams has no duration or cooldown, orisa removes headshots and hogs heals
@@kourt7997iirc doom gives 80% dr which is converted into damage for his empowered punch
I love his trap as a hog main, I can lock down squishes in the trap and get 1-tap-Malee or one tap or 2 taps with it, his healing DR is really rough, I find my self still very low HP on a full USE CHARGE but it is what it is, I’ll take it
@@kourt7997 also those abilities can’t mitigate from all angles.
This trap ability seems not helpful to hog, his team, or to play around. Rest of the rework seems very minor too. Thought this rework would give his hook more utility or something.
It just came out, let people play around with it
honestly he seems kinda worse. idk maybe I'm just dogshit but his trap isn't very impactful and his breather cooldown is so long I just get shit on. plus now you can't one shot Squishies unless you hook them into the trap.
@@oceaneggoOneshotting has been made easier my friend :)
@@symmetramainbtwlol4969 how exactly
Its just the gamemode/map.
Seems like while they gave him more damage, they made it harder for Hog to survive.
yeah I was gonna say the same. He seems so squishy now and doesn't look any better except for damage increase. Now it seems like you actually need good healers to keep you up lol
Oh but that's the best part -
He only has more dmg at midrange.
He actually does less dmg up close now with the reduction to headshot dmg.
So yeah, it may only be day 1, but jeez this rework feels awful if I'm being honest.
I at least, definitely did significantly better with the old hog.
Not doomering quite yet, because I do think this might just be fixable with numbers tweaks, but does this feel bas right here and now.
His biggest issue was getting destroyed by stuns/anti and they fixed that with his new self heal
New primary fire is way more versatile at all ranges
Trap lets you one shot/protect yourself or your team
I think the real issue is everyone is playing him like before, when he doesnt really have that much damage reduction anymore
My biggest complain is the fact he cant shoot back when healing, it makes him vulnerable asf
@@bbc-_-5338 I see what you're saying, but I really just do not see what Roadhog gets used for anymore now.
Maybe this is just 'cause I tend to play whatever fits my team & map and don't one-trick Hog, but now that his up close damage isn't as impressive and his survivability has taken an enormous hit, I just don't know what he does that other Tanks don't already do better.
He does most of his damage at medium range now, where he's competing with Zarya, Sigma, and Orisa. Not only stiff competition, but also a stiff competition of characters who are honestly kinda better at keeping themselves alive now compared to Hog.
Idk, I feel like all he has now is Whole Hog, and that is something, but it really seems like a tough sell to hinge his worth on that.
The new primary fire seems... off? It has a really wide cone of pellets but doesnt have horrible poke. If I were a new player, Id assume this was a close range only shotgun type weapon.
I think they should make the spread a lot tighter to make it more sensible as a ranged weapon.
It's not meant to be a ranged weapon tho. It's just more usable mid range now while still being very good up close.
It’s supposed to be a mid-ranged meat shot beast.
It’s a lot more capable of poking, but you should still be in their face.
If they make it tighter he’ll one shot like every character
Thats cuz the middle part of the shot are 4 empowered bullets. They basically combined a weaker right click with left click.
It took them like a year to rework hog by giving him recycled bastion self heal?
They probably came up with it in a week or so. I don't believe blizzard really put their mind into non profitable content
No No no no. They also came up with giving him a junk rat trap
@@dronnovik95 obviously not, you know how long development is gonna take when you need new concept art, voice lines, models, textures, effects and code?
@@dronnovik95correct. Cyx said he playtested changes month ago and breather was old breather but with team heal, and trap behaved differently. They literally pulled this together in less than a month. Also, this means they have no clear vision of what hog has to be, but Alec admitted to this on a stream so this isn't a secret.
they reworked the character to make him worse than he actually was, now you die so quick and the breather is just bad
No right click is brutal too, especially in replacement for a worse junkrat trap😂 he’s just gonna be awful in higher elo, literally will be unplayable
@@6kades I'm overall happy with the new gun, but I do miss my sniper shots
@@Lex_en_vrai I just don’t see the potential if I’m being honest. I think if they reworked the gun and left the heal as it was it would be much better for hog. He would be able to take space the same way as before, just with more damage to force enemies back.
Even cyx got carried by his team in his own video, damn.
I agree with cyx but it feels like he's not gonna be able to take on shields too well so rein ram and sig will have an advantage on him so long as they use their shields correctly
So rebreather heals 3x as slow now, is on a 12 sec cooldown from full, damage reduction is reduced to 30%.
Uhhhhhh okay lmao.
It´s not actually a 12 second cooldown but it takes 12 seconds for it to be completly recharge when empty. As long as it has some charge you can use it. I compare it to Moira´s healing where you have to manage how much you use and when.
@@93Chowo did you read the part where I said 12 sec cooldown from full?
@@kuma8093
Yes but it can be used at any time while it's recharging. You're making it sound way worse than it is.
@@OGEdger let's just agree to disagree.
You like it.
I don't like it.
We are each entitled to our own opinions.
Some of yall are geniuinely just dumb lmao, his versatility and impact on the game skyrocketed so much that you gotta be just dogshit to think he got worse
Guarantee his rework was from Flats crying so much
Even hog players asked for it. wtf are you talking about.
@@user-ke1gn3ql1g we found Flats burner account
Flats will still cry about this.
hog asked for an upgrade rework because he was useless not a nerfed rework that makes him even worst then before@@user-ke1gn3ql1g
Flats? Don’t you mean Fats?
Well its look like they killl Hog and Break Cyx heart😢😢
I don't see any good things out of this reworked. Hog is still going to get outclassed by other tanks.
You mean outclassed by almost every support
Just a buff to self heal and hes good
@@tommasoaiello2593 not even close. Hog has to one shot again, thats the only reason people played hog in the past. Without oneshot, hes just a throwpick in gm1
They buffed his damage from 150 to 160 so it can secure more shots on the 200 heroes and the center has 4 large pellets that can do up to 60 (headshots for120) as well which can hit at mid-range now and can be combo'd with Pig Pen now which can even get the tank killed sometimes.
Things that bothered me was the rate of his heal, it seems its reduced since the total time is increased and on a meter doing a higher cap but I feel stuck in it longer. I'm guessing it's now 150 a second from 175. I'm not used to that reduction in tandem with the damage reduction so it's difficult at the moment to gauge where I can escape.
Ana will still make you useless and some other supports will chunk you down fast as you're a big target and it's easy to land head shots. Healing when nullified is rough, it's not as good as gaining shield health that some other tanks gain.
And for QOL, I miss being able to interrupt my heal with an ability, I don't remember if I still could with hook, I should check later, but would like to with Pig Pen.
@@bui3415 you seem to have missed the crit damage reduction drom x2 to x1.5
his max damage is 240 with everything to the head
and just the middle pelets (idk how but still) would only do 90 damage instead of 120
The rework has the ability to be so good, and can still be fixed, I think they should up melee dmg or smthn so that he doesnt NEED trap to kill, and then up the numbers on take a breather and he will be better than before. But right now, he kinda feels awful to play, forced to wait for 2 cds to oneshot someone (confirmed oneshot). And he just feels so squishy it's painful.
breather needs a small movement speed boost to hog while using it
I agree. The basic building blocks of the rework itself was a success. The resource meter, the trap, the primary fire rework. With that said, all that remains is number tuning. His DR needs to go back to 50%. His TaB CD needs to be lowered. Popping trap should do more. Right now i can pop trap fairly consistently, but outside the oneshot combo it doesn’t do so much. And most importantly, his interaction with enemy zen/ana needs to be looked at.
That's an Ana problem and not a Hog problem. That bitch needs a rework as well, she is to OW2 what Brig was to OW1.
Also if you increase the dmg reduction do not decrease the vape cooldown as well. Baby steps. See what buffing one of those two does, otherwise you just risk going back to square one where one of the major complaints about Hog was how exceedingly tanky and unpunishable he was without the cunt grandma.
I agreed with everything up until the ana/zen and trap suggestions. Roadhog is a tank and just like any tank, he needs to have counters that ruin his day. Make his breather better with the DR and CD changes and it will help him but at the end of the day if the character has no counters or ways to outplay then it just becomes too OP.
Ana in general needs a rework tbh, I know she's so many people's favourite support that's 'fair' and uses 'skill shots' but the ease of application of her nade and sleep on tanks is pretty high. She has so much going for her in her kit, and she benefitted the most of any support from the addition of the support passive
@@eFRapidfire Yes. I get that landing a sleep dart on a Genji takes actual skill. But tanks like Mauga, hog and Rein (and also Bastion) are basically walking walls. As long as you aim in their general direction, it's harder to miss than to hit. Therefore the argument of "it's a skillshot" really only applies to Ana vs. DPS/Supports, and not at all when it comes to tanks. And the point is also that these abilities already provide so much value, that oftentimes it's much better to make sure the tank is anti'd instead of a DPS on the side.
I wanted to see the replay too so I'm glad they included Cyx checking at the end
I know you can hook people into the trap but it’s kinda niche, the trap doesn’t really help any of hogs problems. In fact hogs problems are now more prevalent because the 50% Damage reduction helped him get away from anti and damage and now he just explodes. The cooldown change on breather definitely helps with cc but until his kit is able to deal or at least escape form with discord orb or anti he won’t be very viable or in fact maybe even a little worse. If his take a breather or pig pen stats were tweaked he could provide a lot more utility and not feel as frustrating.
Yeah gg hog is even more dead the healing dmg reduction nerf made him impossible to survive
Damn the 30% hurts hog so bad
Yeah, that plus the slower healing really hurts.
@@bernardov5342 yeah hopefully they will look into that and make it better
Overall I wouldn’t say I’m super impressed because Ana/zen seems so much scarier now but I heavily agree with cyx that adjusting the numbers is a really simple and likely fix. After a slight numbers buff I’d like to see how this hog plays
Oh wow, hog still loses to his direct counters? That’s crazy
@@ohlookitsconnorits more that he performs much much worse against them. usually you can outplay your counters if you play a more difficult way but it seems with hog now they can just chase while you're healing and there is nothing hog can do to punish that since he takes too long to heal and has little DR.
His heal doesn't get stunlocked into an 8 sec cooldown, and you can heal immediately after anti-nade
Feels like a nerf
It's definitely a buff trust, players just gotta adapt
Ive been enjoying this rework a bunch. Definitely is a buff for sure, and I'm sure he'll get nerfed actually after more people play him to his full potential
@thequietman9820 okay bronze. He's already getting buffed not nerfed
It's so disappointing that, after a year of being completely abandoned by the dev team, they still choose to leave hog in the weakest state he has ever been in. I was hoping they'd make hog at least a little good considering that he has been the worst hero in the game ever since they nerfed his "1-shot" but I guess Blizzard seems to care more about appeasing the hog haters than they do about making hog a viable character.
his healing was nerfed by 15%, his damage reduction was nerfed by 40%, but dont worry, his damage was buffed by a whole 6.5%. i'd rather have nerfed hog. he was more useful
Its really only problems with breather like that time it takes to use, cause trap can still be useful when used actively
Well never thought id say this but somehow they made ana and zen even better in the hog matchup.
Blizzard’s intentions with the change clearly aim to make him more anti dive. Judging from cyx’s gameplay, the trap is not a reliable way to get a one shot combo, however the guaranteed 90 dmg + slow on diving heroes is what will save this change. That, in addition to the primary fire being more consistent at medium range, hog will absolutely destroy in tracer/wb dives, as if he didn’t already
So basically he's still good at what he was already good at, and worse at everything else. Ok LOL.
The new primary fire feels so fucking good! The trap is really fun to use too you can throw it surprisingly far even over walls.
its nice to one shot combo with the trap and the healing versatility is neat
Workshop-ass rework bro 😭 id expect a better concept from a Custom Gamemode
as a zen main i see this as an absolute win
I’m masters and I’ve found that he performs very well against most tanks the ones I’ve been having the most success against are monkey, rein, ram and orisa sometimes even against sigmas and DVA when she is playing more in the frontline. The displacement and hook-trap synergy work very well against these tanks that need a lot of sustain making their supports get way out of position or waste cooldowns to try and stop the tank from getting melted by the traps damage and slow while you and your team lay into him.
I dont like removing his old right click, made for fun kills if you spaced it
Waited almost a year for a worse Hog. lol
It's a better hog but breather just needs a buff
I wonder if making it so you could do other actions while activating this new controllable take a breather would help. Like instead of huffing gas from a canister his mask just sort of does it by itself (but you control it still.) freeing up roadhog to multitask while activating it when needed.
Even then who says he can't one hand breather other hand shoot, even just the threat of shotgun should be good.
Excited to see when cyx gets used to having a trap
Since playing him you can definitely feel the 30% reduction, get melted like crazy sometimes now
Is his trap even a trap? I feel like I’ve seen several people just walk out of it. And it’s weird how it extends outward but you have to walk right on top of it for it to activate. Trap is a no go for me.
I like the gun change. Much more consistent. Feels awesome to use. But holy his breather is almost useless it seems like. And his trap is horrible
I dont think the trap ability is that bad cuz you know theres always gonna be that one unlucky player on the enemy team that finds every junk rat trap, now theyll find every roadhog trap too.
This 100%
Imagine combining the two traps together, damn
Anyone else think cyx died more often now than with old hog?
Maybe he just has to re-learn this new version of the character
You could just tell he was so scared of dying lmao
Having breather available gives you a false sense of security
I feel like his new breather is like a personal defense matrix
Hitting with hook should immediately reset it's cooldown. Add another 1.5 seconds to the cooldown if it misses to reward accuracy.
Take a breather should be able to cleanse hog if you breathe long enough. This will prompt players to use with more care so they have enough to cleanse themselves if needed. It's cooldown should also be shorter by a little.
Pig Pen thingy is basically useless 😂. Should be replaced completely with something adrenaline related that gives him increased speed for a time.
Hog rework done right
@@pizzapie7 Joking about what?
Hog needs either higher DR or some sort of mini shield during breather.
It's time to let it go, Hog is done. Make him viable people will complain that he's broken, make him unusable people will call it balanced 💀. There is no good answer for hog.
Ana anti nade should be a healing reduction ability
I like the changes overall but i think vape could use a little tweak in its balance between over all healing/burst healing/damage reduction.
I personally would like to see the overall healing pool drop to 400 and the damage resist increased to 40% so you can mitigate damage a bit better.
Ah yes, exactly what Hog needed- a big nerf 😮💨
His right click was the only way he could pressure and damage snipers a bit or from long range... Now he is nothing more than a prey to any range character
Nah, this primary can threaten snipers with projectiles in the center and it's decent
How tf could it pressure snipers? It’d do MAYBE 20 damage to a sniper per shot Maximum
Wtf are these takes? He is a lot better at range now that's just objectively true.
i remember someone saying “so yeah this rework is gonna make him better at actually being a tank but yeah flank hog is dead”
to that i say: FLANK HOG IS NEVER DEAD
Developer Comment: The broad goal of the Roadhog rework was to IMPROVE HIS FRONTLINE PRESENCE as a TANK hero
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Anyway we're going to reduce the Damage Reduction by 20% and remove the amplified healing recieved on ending for his heal.
Seems like the worst version of Hog ever.
I don't understand why he keeps putting his Trap 50 meters away from the enemy?
He placed it around a corner so many times just to walk forward and leave it behind. I'd be tossing it in front of me and hoping someone passes through it when I hook.
He's going to do the same except turn hook them so it's harder to retreat back to his team
The damage reduction from 50% to 30% plus the heal is slower makes him easier to kill for that you got more constant damage and a new ability i played some hours and 1 shots with the trap is easier and you can use it to slow down enemies pushing you
Sad thing is junkrat trap is more reliable than hog trap
Im excited to try the changes out soon
Hook then trap seems to have a good success rate in my experience. Mirrors have started using them like that too.
I know his rework just came out.. But it feels really bad as a gm1 player. I would have given him. 3 charges of his heal, keep the 30% dmg reduction but make each healing maybe 250hp so theres still cast time and a net nerf but usable. Able to charge his hook to fly further, so more utlity at the cost of a charge time. 200 armor instead of health. Secondary fire a bunch of nails that have a slowing effect of maybe 15-20%. 4 shots and lower dmg. Focus on displacement and being the wall.
This looks so borring. Hog's weapon is classic double barrel SSG. Just make his primary a double shot with wide line checkers patter, like his ult, with big pushback as well, push enemies to the effective distance of secondary fire. Alternative fire is two semi-auto shots with little to no delay between them, old style ranged blasts but with less damage. Shots could be offset to sides like Diva's fire. Obviously ammo count to 12 and primary uses 2 per shot.
When hook is successful keep target chained, and ability to grab the chain back, with melee button, once. No damage only reposition.
Keep this new healing mechanic, remove trap (cause secondary fire is occupied).
Done, more firing options, range control based on push and pull mechanics of hook+meelee grab and pushback from double shot. More opportunities fro environmental kills.
10 minutes idea.
They could’ve done something cooler. Like really play into his character style and have him release a noxious gas or throw bottles of liquid that puts stuff on the floor (and have it be beneficial for him whilst standing in it), make it slow or do damage idk. I could think of a million other things too. This is alright though, I guess. I’m just imagining a hog that creates larger space since he just gets absolutely beamed to death whenever even a pixel of him is on the enemy screen.
Cool changes. Just wish they would have kept the sound effects of the old secondary fire and used for new primary fire… I think it sounds chonkier and more fun?
Why did they remove heal amp?
what about 40% reduction and 10 second refill for breather?
Or 50% reduction with 8 sec cd
yeah this new rebreather seems extremely useless lmao. should've just kept it the way it was. another L by blizzard what a surprise
You dont see the potencial then lol
@@ivanhermoso5330it needs a little buff of damage reduction or something like this
@@artemmark7200 yea yea, It needs a bit of numbers buffs, but the posibility of heal AFTER a nade or a stun? Big buff
It’s really not that big of a deal bro 😂
@@Phobie_2000 if u think like this, u haven't played new hog yet
Increase the damage mitigation, reduce the duration of how long it takes to heal and overall healing
Exactly!
I dont know how it was possible but they somehow made him WORSE. He id unbelievably boring to play now and he barely changed
That's just an awful take
I dont know what you mean but I played for about an hour with him and hes a lot more fun to play now.
Primary fire proposal: hold m1 to fire the old secondary fire. Cbtm
Damn, their Sig was nuts.
I love to put a trap on ground and then hook smb into the trap. That new combo is bonkers. Although, Cyx is not using it much, strange.
I saw comments on ur livestream about someone asking you about the problem about how hog goes from .5 to heal 350 to 3 seconds to heal 450, it being 6 times as long seems like a problem.
instead of adding a trap, they should've made his right click a scrap shot that slows targets but does like 0 damage. If you are going to take his 1 shot mostly away, at least make it rewarding to constantly hook people in or help the team get picks by slowing at range. My2c
Maybe I’m biased but I don’t think a ten second refill on breather would be bad at 30% dmg reduction. I’ve only played a few games though
I love that instead of pumping out new characters or skins they're taking time to rebalance and rework old characters. Feels like the game is going in a better direction again
Yes a much better direction. Nerf a character into the ground and then produce a rework thats somehow worse. MUCH BETTER
You are so naive it’s sad to read
@@JA-kr1lzexactly
Old hog was better. Trap is boring and makes hero more complicated. The only thing they should've changed was his breather - resource based is fine, but rest numbers should've stayed the same (50% dr and 300hp). Bad rework.
Da fweaking zen no wayyy
did my trap accidentally cawwy there 🤓🤓🤓🤓
His heal actually looks fun to play around and manage I’m interested to see how he plays
Poor cyx hes already sick of this rework 😂😂😂
What is the cube in the background that lights up with speech?
this match literally just happened less then two hours ago, tf
Sig/Ana still DUMPSTERS Hog. Even with these changes, Hog is still B tier. BUT Hog has INSANE survivability if he has his whole take a breather. You are not killing him without nade or a stun lol. I was playing against him it was a me, a Sig, and a Moira vs Hog. The fight was over so it was just us two. We literally could not take him down and he regrouped with his team lmao
GRANTED this was QP, but still. Good survivability under the right circumstances, but still B tier everywhere else
Not to mention the Hog mirror is SOOOO slow and boring... It's literally "Whomever gets the hook first wins/whomever misses hook first loses"
“Hm, rework an ability into something more utility or helpful for the team… nah let’s just make another CC ability”
They could change the breather go recover faster while not engaged at least if they wanted to lower it to 30% on a 12s
The breather just straight up worse than before? And damn, only primary thingy kinda blows my accuracy numbers. Kinda hard seeing 14% weapon accuracy ngl🤣
Primary fire is the only good thing imo. Trap sucks (does too little imo) and his breather is mostly worse. You cant use it as a get out of jail free card, and you are open to even more cc bc it takes longer to use.
Then you're not using trap correctly
In all honesty I think breather should have maybe 40% instead of 30% but that’s just me but think about it there is stuff like discord mercy damage boost nano and a bunch of others that could basically make the 30% useless but other than that the rework is definitely a step in the right direction for hog for sure
I think pigpen should have been a large aoe slow like a mudpit. since hog has a in issue getting in
I like the resource for the heal, removing the right click I don’t like, it helped him at mid range. The pig pen ability is whatever. Honestly disappointed. I would’ve preferred if they just gave him back the ability to consistently one shot 200hp hero’s and like some cc resistance or something. Like a self cleanse. Also did they get rid of his damage reduction while healing??
The trap is weird man. I think its interesting though that you can put it with your supports to protect against dive but other than that it seems hard
You just got to get used to having the utility now 😅. More options for hog with that. Just simply throw it down somewhere you can hook someone to it whenever you have the chance
Was hoping for a better re-work tbh
They went a step in the right direction with the zen discord nerf but ana still feels very oppressive.
a creative rework but yet they make a tank less of a tank and more of a fat dps...The worst thing about his heal now is that other damage reduction ability (doom, orisa, ram) have higher DR and cannot be countered by anti heal, Hog is just a punching bag with way to many tools to punish him
LOOK MA, IM FAMOUS 0:41
I’m excited to watch this!
Queen needs her shotgun to work like this. Even if it deals less damage of course. The spread coupled with the game's overall speed makes shotguns and high spread weapons like tracer pistols feel so weird in OW
Skill issue
definitely a skill issue
I haven't played new hog but queen looks WAY more consistent with her primary fire especially since she actually has a movement ability to get in close as a queen main if anything she definitely needs a slight nerf
Dunno about the changes. His primary fire having the 4-pellet range of his right click, with the benefit of still having some close-range scatter shots is a nice change, but they should've kept his right click as is though. Bring back the right-click, and up its damage to get rewarded for landing those small-scatter shots. Keep this new left-click because it rounds out how hog can do damage in close and far range. TLDR: Keep new left click, but make it for close/medium range only, bring back long range right-click, up its damage, tighten spread even more to reward skill.
Also new heal is meh. If you have the time/safety to stand around and benefit from healing from 0-500+, your healers are probably near you by then anyways, or you've relocated your position. Make the E proc a cleanse on-use when you're below, lets say 25-30% max hp. This gets hog out of bad situations, but doesn't allow cleanse-abuse because of the hp requirement. I can think of another 5 things off the top of my head to make him better but not overtuned in the top 1%, and I can't believe a AAA team spent this long on a 'rework' for this to be the final product, lmao.
Take a breather was hard nerfed, they should either give it more dmg reduction or make it faster, i would make it faster to have less inactive time for hog.
It sucks when they use Zen and Ana specifically to counter you.
They made him weaker
bro how r people saying yo nerf road hog he’s still clearly underpowered i lowkey see this as a nerf
The less damage reduction from TAB is ridiculous, it's his main way of tanking damage and they really gonna lower it? They really are punishing tanks for tanking damage?
Being so try hard in quickplay that you go Ana zen cuz you know there's gonna be a hog is actually pathetic lol
Ohh yeah 30% damage reduction and 12 second for the total refill are numbers that can easily be adjusted, THE THING IS IF THEY WANT TO ADJUST THEM AT ALL