András Schiff talks about J.S. Bach: Das Wohltemperierte Clavier (Interview) | ECM Records
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2014
- Johann Sebastian Bach: Das Wohltemperierte Clavier
András Schiff: piano
As a young pianist, András Schiff earned wide esteem for his 1980s recordings of the major keyboard works of J.S. Bach; in recent years, as part of his long-term relationship with ECM, he has gone back to Bach as a sage veteran, earning more acclaim for his New Series recordings of the Goldberg Variations (2001) and the Six Partitas (2007). The New York Times said, “Mr. Schiff is, in Bach, a phenomenon. He doesn’t so much perform it as emit, breathe it.” In August 2011, Schiff turned his focus to the 48 preludes and fugues of The Well-Tempered Clavier, making studio recordings of both books in the Auditorium Radiosvizzera Italiana, Lugano. An iconic inspiration for composers from Mozart and Beethoven to Chopin and Brahms and beyond, The Well-Tempered Clavier has long been considered the Old Testament of the keyboard literature (with Beethoven’s piano sonatas as the New Testament). In his liner notes to this four-CD set, Paul Griffiths underscores the suitability of Bach’s timeless keyboard work for the modern piano: “Bach’s inquiry into so many nuances, of touch, of interplay between hands and between contrapuntal lines, of character and of expressivity, has helped form keyboard technique as we know it, and his music belongs to the instrument of Beethoven, of Chopin, of Debussy, of Kurtág - especially when that instrument is played with the mastery and sensitivity of Schiff in these performances (...) Noteworthy is his floated melody and his rhythmic sense - his realization that so much of Bach’s music is song or dance. Grandeur and intimacy are also here. Wit, too.”
Recorded August 2011
ECM New Series 2270-73
Listen and buy here: ECM.lnk.to/A8LylID
www.ecmrecords.com/shop/14303...
Subscribe: bitly.com/ECMrecords - บันเทิง
![[4K] TREASURE(트레저) “KING KONG” Band LIVE Concert 킹콩은 라이브를 찢어🦍 [it’s KPOP LIVE 잇츠라이브]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/p8bLLOxPDD8/mqdefault.jpg)
I have always adored Mr. Schiff the pianist. However, lately I have begun to discover Andras Schiff the musicologist. It is such a joy to listen to him talk about J.S. Bach for he speaks with such passion, erudition and wisdom.
The Well Tempered Clavier not suited for harpsichord because of appoggiatura? That's some piece of musicology. He acknowledges that the Goldberg Variations is for harpsichord. There are Appoggiatura in the Goldberg Variations. Hence Appoggiatura are also for harpsichord, as well as for organ, which also doesn't have volume dynamics. So the Well Tempered Clavier is fine for harpsichord, which indeed was and still is the natural keyboard instrument to play it on.
@@Ramatganski Pardon me for a late reply but the WTC is suited for the harpsichord but I think there are some pieces from it that sound better on the organ like fugue in no. 4 (C# minor) from the first book of the WTC.
I absolutely agree with you. Mr Schiff talks about Bach with such passion, erudition and wisdom..., and humility. :)
@Robert Wightman I fully agree with you !
"If yoi dislike Bach you keep quiet about it" thats soo truth
i totally agree with him on that. lol. My parents always told me off "Oh, Bach, not pleasant music, right? Why would you like it?" Well, you don't undertand the essence of his music!
@@stevenxia2944 lol yeah I met some people who did not like Bach too. If you don't like Bach there must be something with your brain haha
@@agamaz5650 Maybe it's the transcendent purity and "simplicity" some people don't like...they need a "human story"...Bach flies high above that.
@@agamaz5650 Maybe it's the transcendent purity and "simplicity" some people don't like...they need a "human story"...and Bach flies high above that.
@@Shiva108 agreed, not that there is really anything wrong with it but anything that requires more than a simple melodic pattern like the hip hop beats nowadays is too much to handle for the modern audience
Unfortunately, I can't play piano; I play drums. I've only recently discovered Maestro András Schiff. I am now addicted to listening to his Bach CDs. His lectures on YT have greatly influenced my approach to drumming and to musicality in general. András Schiff is a wonderful lecturer. He has an amazing amount of insightful wisdom to impart. Do any non-pianists share my views?
Thanks to the wise, erudite and quietly brilliant Andras Schiff. To my mind, he is a genius inhabited by music.
His touch is exquisitely executed and imparts his expressive humanity in speaking the intended language of the compositions hel performs bringing Bach back to life in such an authentic manner he doubles as an authentic history educator. What a deeply thoughtful musician he is! The embodiment if grace.
How blessed we are that Andras Schiff is not only a great artist, but that he loves to teach! Thanks to Yotube, his knowledge and guidance can reach amateur pianists and serious piano students around the world!
His masterclasses on TH-cam are mind opening to me. Crazy good teaching, lot of people in "regular" jobs should take him as an example on how to treat people.
My teacher went to a Schiff concert and after it was over, Schiff just walked home!
You know when you are in the presence of a Master of the piano.
and so it is the same with Andras Schiff, as with Bach...'He is the best of us, but one of us.' How blessed we are to have you among us Andras, thank you for so much beauty and intelligence.
The quietness of knowing shines through when this master Speaks…
Historian, teacher, musician, conductor and communicator. Master Schiff is indeed unique.
Indeed!
Thank you! This is such an informative, inspiring, and enlightening presentation! Additionally, it's so entertaining that I'll keep coming back to watch it again and again. Music is a tremendous resource. When you understand its subtle nuances, you continue to enjoy it more and more.
"Bach - the best of us, but one of us." What a great ending for this video.
Wow! So many incredible insights from Andras Schiff, as well as clear and precise playing. I really enjoyed this.
My favourite Bach performer Andras Schiff .playing my favourite music .
What about Murray Perahia?
@@ruperttmls7985 Personally, I'm glad to have both Schiff and Perahia around. Two superb Bach interpreters.
A brilliant, didactic lecture by a magnificent pianist, one of the humblest musicians I've ever listened to. I never tire of watching Sir András Schiff's conferences let alone listening to his performances.
As a great admirer of both J.S. Bach and of Master András Schiff, I can't but thank @ECM Records for sharing this gem on TH-cam !
Bach's associate, Silbermann, designed a pianoforte with foot pedals which Bach had the chance to play and was impressed. Bach was a very technically minded person who understood the inner workings of the most technically complicated instrument of his day, the church organ. Bach would be playing Moog modular synths and using DAWs if he were alive today.
I thought he disliked the fortepiano.
Actually, he as undewhelmed..he thought the action of the keys were weak, and compared to a harpsichord, very weak in volume. Bach was brutally honest when it came to musical instruments..even when talking about his eldest son's Godfather! (That is why Silbermann NEVER asked Bach to test his organs..he would've savaged them, due to Silbermann's tuning, which would have mad Bach's organ pieces sound like cr@p) Alas, Silbermann took the constructive criticism well and rebuilt th instrument to Bach's satisfaction!
@@Zephyrus47 The prototypes built by Silbermann he thought as "needswork", but by the time he visited Frederick the Great in 1747(and composed the remarkable Musikalisches Opfer on a extremely strange and 20th century theme the King gave Bach) Hr plaed on the Fortepianos and found them good instruments, and some argue, some of the pieces that need a harpsichord for the Musikalisches Opfer can be played on an early Baroque fortepiano)
How wonderful that Schiff begines by pointing out that Klavier" is a generic term that includd for Bach all the three keyboard instruments known to him - the domestic clavichord that "maybe someone in the first row could hear, but no one else. I would only play on it for myself and one other person." The much louder harpschord with two manuels - but even that was not capable of certain effects, like a slur on tow notes, and finally yht organ, which could sustain a pedal point with the foot ! Immediately it becomes crystal clear that he was thinking of ALL THREE in Das Wohltemeristes Klavier, depending on which Prelude and Fugue you are playing. Thank you, Andras Schiff ! So much for the "elephant in the room" - "should you play Bach on a grand piano?"
One musical genius talking about another musical genius is humbling to hear.
What a beautiful man
A lovely and touching exposition.
Tempo marking!
I love the discussion about Bach's tempo marking.
Bach is so wonderful!
I feel lucky to have the same birthday:
March 21!
Yes I am the greatest composer. I like this guy! Good chap!
...only after Wolfgang Amadeus bro...🤗🎼
@@vittoriomarano8230 Over-rated
@@snails9505 ...😅😅😅
I loved this recording. Would I be good enough to be able to play it once in my life ?
That was informative.
Thank You Andras Schiff & Co. for putting out this out. Beautiful. Andras Schiff"s humbling facial reaction at the very end is very telling of the great musician. " very human very down to earth message that's why I find Bach so wonderful that he's one of us THE BEST of us but one of us"
I enjoyed reading the postings like Ben David's post " This "death" is what you hear nowadays, and also why not only is the music not as potent and strong as Bach's but also at times sounds like the putrid flesh of rotting fruit (modernism)."
Let's call it what it is "the dumbing down of society" and it's all by design. Thanks to the powers that be. Even our education system has deteriorated over the past century. Our history is controlled by the same who are running the big machine. Times were much different then. I remember when I was a young and Bob Barker would say please control the pet population have your pet sprayed or neutered now this is exactly what is happening to the human race. Sorry for the wake up call. Peace
I like, beatifull
I have always admired Schiff’s defense for not using pedal; saying that it sacrifices clarity of lines rather than saying “Bach didn’t have a pedal, therefore I can’t use it either”. He mentions that early keyboards don’t have pedals, but it’s clear that his main reason to avoiding the damper pedal concerns his signature articulated style of playing and bright tone.
Now, I personally will always add pedal in Bach, when playing on the modern piano, because the action forbids my fingers to feel secure through touch alone. I can’t connect notes without pedal; furthermore, I find it adds color when used with care. I also play the clavichord, and harpsichord. Completely different from a piano. I don’t need the brace from a pedal, because on these early instruments, you can easily caress the lines from touch alone. I can’t do this on piano, not even the best ones (the Yamaha S7X has come close, but the pedal adds a perfect amount of color). Also, the Steinway D he is playing on...good grief. Why would someone make one rule of killing the use of pedal when all pianos are so different? Steinway pianos are very inconsistent, and often times, the color from a pedal is NECESSARY to get the tone that one could desire! What confuses me is that I have heard Schiff use pedal in many sections in his first recording of the WTC. I must be misunderstanding his message?
Of course, we are all human, and we can all develop and change over time. I will say, while Schiff is not my favorite Bach interpreter, he certainly has the best recording of the Partitas out there, to me. I’m very thankful to hear his insight, and his numerous recordings...I’ll just agree to disagree regarding use of the pedal.
If my ear works I can hear some pedal here and there in Bach - but not the pervading art that you need in Liszt's music and also, sometimes in Chopin (often too much there, too, btw).
Schiff is correct. Pedal suddenly makes the harmonies piano-heavy. It just feels wrong,not as intended etc. Trouble is,Bach sounds easier to play than it is and there is nowhere to hide poor technique. Pedal is often used to fudge poor technique. The harmonies in Bach are democratic i.e. without a 'romantic' top voice but in equal parts. Pedal just sounds like people talking all at once at a party, or as Schiff says, speaking with your mouth full. The clarity of parts is lost.
Who is your favorite Bach interpreter?
@@rennyforyourthoughts8023 it depends…I still love hearing Bach on piano even though I’ve mainly turned to the harpsichord now, but my overall favorite is Glenn Gould. I used to dislike his recordings, until I had an awakening this earlier this year. Thing is, everyone plays Bach so differently, and I can’t really find a way to compare the differences. I think it’s a fantastic thing. Some days, I really enjoy an introspective sound to the French Suites, in which I’ll put on Joanna MacGregor’s recording instead. If I want something different, I’ll listen to Jörg Demus for the sole reason of lyricism - and that marvelous Bösendorfer.
A. Schiff says it loud and clear (well, soft and clear) for all those effect seeking young pianists the world over: don't use pedal for Bach. It destroys the voice leading and the clarity of the counterpoint, which is essential! Speak and play clearly. Well said.
Why not to use pedal without destroying voices and losing clarity? Why not to enrich music with overtones. I think it is not a question of using or not. It is a question of using quality.
You can use pedal without ruining the voice leading. You can even use it solely to reinforce the notes being played, not actually connect them. The pedal is no crude tool of a butcher, it is much more like the brush of a painter, and it is up to the pianist to give us a picture that respects the composer as much as it enchants the audience.
For those who don't play or know a piano: the sustain pedal prevents notes that have been played from being muted. All of them, no matter if they collide or not. So in counterpoint the notes of the distinct melody lines running parallel are heaped together into one amorphous, cacophonous 'potpourri' of sound that hurts the ear. Comparable to the 'finale' of A Day in the Life by the Beatles. So to speak.
@@hdholl Bach is hardly all counterpoint. Of course you won't use pedal on a section full of passages, but more concrete melodies or perhaps arpeggios can be connected with the pedal. An example that springs to mind is the Sarabande of the B minor suite. The theme might as well be played using the pedal to connect the eighths with one another.
@@mimichaten d
I'm sure Bach would love the modern piano. This idea that Bach must be played in the most traditional way possible is just silly. I'm sure he would want us to keep innovating.
The piano was invented when Bach was still alive but he disliked it
Does anyone know the painter of the picture? Appearing at the beginning and the end.
I agree .. Bach on piano.. brings out the best .. a universe of expressive dynamics.. !! Thank you !!
anyone knows the full interview? it would be interesting
ikr so goood
th-cam.com/video/9oLa_0JlH38/w-d-xo.html
I'm not sure tho
I absolutely agree about the pedal non-usage and that the appoggiaturas should be played like this on a fortepiano but still I am a bit confused or maybe I've missed something. Which instrument that existed at Bachs lifetime was it at the end, that works like the b minor fugue with appoggiaturas were written for?
You are absolutely correct. I was thinking the same when hearing Schiff... Was curious to see if someone commented it about... It does not make any sense unless you give Bach credit of foresee the future instruments...
I thought the most interesting thing about this video was the setting... Andras Schiff is always interesting. But you have this sort of conversation in a setting where you have a backdrop of sun-lit skyscrapers in the background, it puts into clear perspective the transcendence of this music. Why are we talking about this music still, besides, when there are more adult humans alive today than have existed during Bach's time and all time before that? Shouldn't there be at least 10 J. S. Bachs today? How is it that considering how much more technologically advance we are today than previous generations, people don't seem to be smarter? These are questions I wonder about.
I had a renewed feeling of understanding of Bach and his music, as well as anyone who performs his music. At 38 I thought or felt I had had all the insights into the music, and regressed back to a juvenile.
Well you can stop wondering because that statement is not true.
Why should we be smarter? The human species doesn't evolve that fast, we are no smarter than we were 5000 years ago. And technology doesn't make us smarter. On the contrary, it makes us lazy - physically and intellectually. We do have access to more resources, but that's not what we are, it's what we have. What we have doesn't matter. What matters is what we are. Of course our whole ideology and conditioning profess the contrary. But it's an illusion.
You are profoundly naive if you equate technological advancement with any increase in human wisdom.
The first primate who sparked the first fire with stones did not suddenly become a wise and noble being.
I count myself extremely lucky that I have lived in an age where Bach preceded me, and that his music was available to me in recorded form, and for free.
jfeucht82 The Pianoforte to me is foremost a romantic instrument. Many - not to say all - of Bach’s pieces are not suitable for it.
I believe Mr.Schiff is the same spirit of Bach reincarnated. He is very special.
There are several Bach organ works with appogiaturas, challenging Schiff's argument that Bach's WTC works with appogiaturas were not meant for the harpsichord.
Well the title originally was:
*le clavecin bien temperé*
I must be missing something. How does the existence of *organ* works with appoggiaturas challenge the argument that the pieces from WTC with appoggiaturas were not meant for *harpsichord* ?
@@JaxonBurn Schiff argues that WTC works with appogiaturas were not meant for the harpsichord because the harpsichord doesn't allow you to stress a note without changing its duration. The organ has precisely the same limitation, yet there are several Bach organ works with appogiaturas.
Schiff's argument leads to the absurd conclusion that Bach's organ works with appogiaturas were not meant for the organ.
Note that 3 people have given a thumbs up to my original comment. Evidently, they agree with me. I don't like your tone. If you can't grasp the logic of my argument, then you are definitely missing something.
well, the moderator asked a loaded question, and Schiff handed him his backside for 20 minutes
I love the way Schiff uses the modern piano for Bach and I have listened to other interviews, his views are good. I also found Schiff recordings of other composers, but, honestly, Bach is his true love; Isn't it?
Did Andras Schiff sanction the use of Bach for background music in this talk?
The elephant will never forget!
What did he played at 8:30?
Prelude BWV 854 in E WTC Book 1
What is he playing at 12:30 ?
Either d sharp or e flat minor wtc 1
Why does everyone say that Vivaldi influenced Bach and not mention his precursor Sweelinck?
Please add caption!
He acknowledges that the Goldberg Variations is for harpsichord. There are Appoggiatura in the Goldberg Variations. Hence Appoggiatura are also for harpsichord, as well as for organ, which also doesn't have volume dynamics. So the Well Tempered Clavier is fine for harpsichord, which indeed was and still is the natural keyboard instrument to play it on.
Your assertion that the harpsichord is the natural keyboard to play the WTC on is not supported by any evidence and contradicts the entire spirit of the video.
ramatganski shmanski fortunately no one gives a shit about those who want to confine Bach to the museum and we have countless phenomenal recordings of Bach on the piano. Those who want to play the harpsichord are welcome to, I can enjoy Landowska and that American guy who died of aids in the late 1980s. But it has a fraction of the possibilities of the piano
Feel free to play Bach on every instrument you want. But some pieces are more suited for certain instruments. The way Schiff argues is, that modern piano is suited for all pieces if you play it adequately (e.g., by rarely using the sustaining pedal).
punkpoetry what Landowska played is a harpsichord in name only. And Ross was Canadian. There are dozens of great harpsichord performances from Leonhardt to Glen Wilson to Suzuki. There are also very fine performances that switch between various instruments including clavichord, harpsichord and organ - Robert Levin for example. Bach can be played in many ways convincingly. His music is so wide and deep. Schiff is a very fine musician and certainly not the last word on this topic.
@@begshallots I remember reading an article by Douglas Adams (author of Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy), in which he was in a hotel room, listening to the WTC in MIDI format. He observed that Bach's music, more than that of any other composer he knew, sounds magnificent regardless of what it's being played on.
I share the exact sentiment regarding the sustaining pedal because i feel like it destroys the clarity of the counterpoint, the very thing I enoy in bach. This another reason why i much prefer listening to bach on a harpiscord over piano. But maybe if they take it easy on the pedal, I might be different.
I found his comment on the use of the pedal quite interesting. He used the pedal, much to my surprise, throughout the Book 1 24 preludes and fugues at the BBC proms just recently. See: th-cam.com/video/RNCuPAgG9eo/w-d-xo.html if it doesn't come across in the sound I witnessed it from about 10 feet away, admittably there was a lot of "half-pedal" and fast pedaling, but it was used none the less.
Perhaps there were other reasons why he decided to use the pedal. Schiff appears to eschew dogma, or he may just be a contrarian.
listen to what he says here: th-cam.com/video/3-mPaaHvLLU/w-d-xo.html
@@patrick99e99 thanks! I had actually seen that way back, and his discussions on pieces being intended for clavichord/organ/harpsichord/etc speak volumes. 3 years on, I’ve learned that Schiff’s advice needs to be taken with some serious context, his advice to Early Advanced pianists will of course be radically different from that to the Tripple Advanced+++ pianists yet here in TH-cam land it’s so easy to only here his apparent contradictions. Funnily enough, I (later) found his advice on Schubert to be much more of a revelation to my Bach playing and vice versa!
4:34 which fugue is he playing?
A minor fugue from Book I of 48
ollie61 thanks :)
Is it me or did he look more and more like Bach as time went by?
like
The full interview: th-cam.com/video/RxK1hY6vHNk/w-d-xo.html
I prefer Bach om the harpsichord. J.S.' music is dark enough. Anyway, I guess Bach would prefer the instrument on which you like his music more.
What he misses is the possibility of using the piano to express the feelings inherent in Bach's pieces. When he plays there is little change in volume.
I love your Bach BUT I do think the Book 1 Preludes in C Cmi and D and perhaps Dmi and B fl should be reconsidered. Playing C like Mendelssohn with bits that don't make sense is not Bach. The static repetitions in the C mi Prelude is not Bach. There is a melody in counterpoint to the 3 up 3 down in the D prelude. The D mi as 3 part counterpoint is difficult but you could play it perfectly.
th-cam.com/video/KbJI-tP6tNA/w-d-xo.html
"It's just there, sheer perfection!"
6:35
Is Andras schiff married
I think there are 3 apex composers and Bach is one.
who are the other two? beethoven? ravel?
I would love to have been his next door neighbor.
He really has no idea about harpsichord playing and everything he says is wrong. Now he is praising older pianos...so some enlightenment. But really, he says just anything that comes to his head without assessment.
Your opinion is not easy to be found in the desert !
@@felixsinniger280 I have no idea what you are suggesting? I am responding to all the incorrect and ignorant information in this posting. I just don't like it when people make things up and develop a structure of nonsense. Play the way you want..but please get the information right. PS. Desert? I think not. The opinions are varied on any one's playing of anything.
@@felixsinniger280 Bach's favorite instrument was NOT the Clavichord...error 1. There is no evidence in any writing at all about this. Clavier refers not to specific instruments but the problems with tuning on a keyboard without individual notes for chromatics. Nothing about "any keyboard instrument of the time."
@@felixsinniger280 The harpsichord is perfectly capable of playing appogiaturas with great expressivity and musicality. Schiff really knows nothing about how to play a harpsichord well and simply wants to make his argument for the piano. All opinion and no knowledge. In fact, the modern piano is a dull sounding thing when it comes to harmonics, or overtones..and this robs so much of Bach the sensuous relationship he had with the earlier keyboards.
@@andrewsappel you haven't explained how to play an appoggiatura on the harpsichord properly (resolution must be softer than the note that precedes it). You keep proclaiming that Schiff is wrong but you haven't proven him wrong.
Dude looks like Bach.
Is that an argument? 😂😂😂😂 funny because he is right.. It is weak lol
Classic piano teacher bs : everybody is wrong, I have a great metaphor and make strange weird sounds with his mouth, that proves my point
I don't hear anything "religious" in the "religious" examples he played.
Listen to the St. Matthew Passion, and you will hear what he is talking about.
@@tombroughton6757 I know SMP, SJP, and the church cantatas quite well. There are many passages in Bach's liturgical ("religious") music that sound quite secular, but that doesn't make those liturgical works secular. In fact, several Bach church cantatas are parodies of his secular cantatas. e.g., the cantatas of the Christmas Oratorio.
@@herrickinman9303 I know.
What a pity !
What he says about harpsichord is simply not true!!!
it is
@Fliszt you're right. But then there are only 2 possible kinds of dynamics, which is terribly little.
nem jó és nem helyes