Note that this is 30% off the top.. THEN Twitch takes their 50%. Twitch definitely should get a share for all the platform costs. When the labels and producers are willing to take (willing not happy) $0.0003 per streamed song for Spotify songs but they get to just take 30% for DJs promoting their songs is very unbalanced.
I kind of figured that it would be twitch takes their cut first and the creator is on the hook for paying the 30%. That seems more likely. So a 50-50 split of a $6.00 sub is 3.00 to the creator minus .90 equals $2.10 revenue going to the creator after twitch's cut and the rev share.
Thank you for getting this out so quickly, I'm interested what we will see with a larger sample size than 100, but suspect that the 30%-ish will hold true.
Yeah. I will track it next month as well and see how much it changes. It COULD end up being slightly higher as it starts counting the day you opt in rather than the entire month.
@@ZachBusseywould you be open to tracking more data regarding amount of subs? I’m personally having a hard time accepting why I have the highest cut compared to anyone I’ve spoken to…
Great info. Thanks for all of this! Really appreciate the work you're doing not only to clarify communication but also provide analysis to help DJs make business decisions.
Wow!! Thank you Zach for this. Appreciate you taking the time to shine some clarity for us in this crazy time 😩 will definitely be looking into some tips
So here’s the deal: music labels usually take a huge cut from recording artists - we’re talking 70-85% of their earnings, plus a chunk from things like merch and tours. The reason for that? Labels put up a lot of cash to help artists record, promote, and tour. But for Twitch DJs, it’s a whole different story. DJs don’t get any financial help from labels-they’re paying for their own equipment, doing their own thing, and bringing their own audience. When they play songs, they’re actually giving those tracks extra exposure, which helps labels and artists by driving new listeners to the music. So, for labels to ask DJs for 30-50% of their earnings just feels off. DJs are already adding value just by playing the music and getting people into it. A better system would be for DJs to pay a smaller, fairer fee. Like, what if DJs could just pay a per-stream fee? So, they pay a set amount to access a whole music library for that stream. Another idea is a flat-rate subscription, where DJs pay monthly or yearly to use licensed music however they want. These options keep costs manageable for DJs and still give labels their share. So bottom line? DJs don’t rely on labels for support, so they shouldn’t have to hand over big cuts. Smaller fees make it fair for everyone-DJs can earn a living, and labels still get paid.
External Revenue - Another way to supplement income you didn't mention was focusing on booking club/festival gigs. Fourthwall does seem a great option, and merchandise too. Perhaps brand sponsorship could also be an option to some.
@@Fae_4N brands need to come to us and 98% of promotions offered to us our gaming related. And now more than ever, since we have no vods or clips allowed.. I think even less brands will want to sponsor us.
Twitch cmon, PLEASE do better. Thanks for your take Zach, have a sub bro. Us DJs need to be heard/seen especially those among us trying to stay afloat trying our ABSOLUTE best with dismal viewership/lack of support from others. ALSO I noticed Twitch ONCE AGAIN is screwing us by clumping Music and DJing in the same category. Listen...Twitch, we don't ask for much... we just want the recognition for what we do. We're here sharing what we love with one another, our love for music, but if our love for music isn't getting noticed or appreciated, then we'll happily find somewhere else to take our hobby. VTUBERS get plenty of support, ARTISTS get plenty of support on the platform so what gives? Greed, yes. I know. This though will ultimately lead to the platforms downfall. People are going to get tired of it all. People already are tired of it all. We SHOULDN'T have to jump through hoops just to continue to persue our hobby. To whoever reads/sympathizes, thank you and know that you're not alone.
Hey Zach, thank you for the very informative video. I'd like to pose a question that I asked on the Twitch Music Discord regarding the DJ Program and would like your (or anyone's) thoughts on my questions: As Posted on Twitch Music - Official Discord Hey guys, I'm new to this server and have a couple of questions regarding the DJ program. I have been a casual DJ streamer for a bit so I am currently not eligible for monetization. With the DJ program, I am now considering being on more regularly. As I am currently not monetizing, how would the fees apply to me? Would this also mean that the requirements for monetizing will be adjusted for those who do not stream that often? Also, based on what I have been reading, it seems like Twitch just has a mechanical license which covers the master recordings. How would these rules apply to remakes? I manage 2 labels myself and we have released works that were remakes (not remixes) of different tracks so I am just curious. My labels are covered by this license on Twitch and I already see most of my artists on here. Thanks in advance.... Again, I am just curious on your thoughts. Thank you again..... 🙂👍
Hey Matrix! I'll give you my answers. (But keep in mind that this is my interpretation of the rules and documents. I'm never quite sure how Twitch will react.) 1. If you're not a monetized streamer (not an affiliate, not a partner), then you have no economic impact. Twitch covers those costs. 2. Twitch may encourage you (perhaps strongly) to become an affiliate if you grow an audience. 3. I'm not sure about remakes. Hope that helps!
I actually removed my affiliation with twitch and moved to Kick. funny enough I'm making more already. none of my music is in the program because I dj goth music. also I didn't want to remake my channel. Me and my community is not going to pay the to promote their music.
I myself am a bedroom DJ. There would be interest in streaming on Twitch. I don't want to make money on Twitch because I play for my own pleasure. I use VirtualDJ+Tidal with DJ integration (I already pay extra for it). Do I have to join the Twitch DJ program? If I have to, do I have to pay something even though I don't earn anything?
If you aren't a monetized creator (and thus earn no money from subs, bits, or ads because they aren't active on your account) then no, you would not have to pay anything. BUT, you would need to join the program. You'll get warnings otherwise.
I don’t get it. Is the 30% before the 50/50 split? Or do they take 30, give it to the labels, then apply the 50/50 split to the remainder? What if you have a DH that is new and doesn’t earn anything yet?
I can see a u turn hopefully coming on this , like they did with the ad thing and promotion banner % on screen thing a few months back. Outside donos will outstrip subs and bits is my prediction, or twitch will curl up its toes .
@@ZachBussey Yes, but the industry can either have ra easonable percentage of 'something', or large chunk of 'nothing' as people monetise off platform.
I strongly feel the twitch DJ community should organise, go to twitch, tell them 30% is too much, tell them they need to go renegotiate the deal, and this time bring DJs voices to the table. Yes music labels hold the power... but DJs aren't some kind of 'leech', DJ's are incredibly valuable for both twitch AND music labels in spreading music and creating community and revenue. Of course the big guys are gonna try and say DJS have no power/worth, but, like in many other cases in history, we don't have to believe them. I get that twitch worked hard on the deal, but they need to do better.
@@Fae_4N Another point would be when was the last time you had to pay a venue to play in a venue ? If individual PRS (performing rights licences encompassing the material we play ) could be obtained theoretically we could all wave our papers at twitch and play whatever , but the deal they have made with the labels seems a bit stilted , but i guess we will never know the exact details .. 30 % regardless without calculations/ number of plays would surely give somebody some cream to lick off the top after satisfying relevant parties ..
I'm concerned about the impact this is going to have on DJ's with larger audiences/larger previous incomes, and if we are going to see a reduction in Twitch DJ Streamers as a result. There also remains the question of, with these changes, will Mixcloud prove a better option for DJs? Currently the community is at Twitch, but if DJs decline on Twitch (due to streaming on Twitch no longer being financially viable for those doing those as a way of earning an income) then it's possible the community may reduce also, over time?
@@alleykay209 I feel the same way, trust me. However, I believe our communities would rally around and cancel their subs in favour of a monthly Ko-Fi (or similar) donation once they know we are finished if they don’t. This means less income for Twitch and the labels, which due to greed, is a fair and just result as far as I’m concerned. None of us disagree that licensing should be in place, but not at such a high and unviable cost. It’s the equivalent of running a nightclub, but asking your staff to pay the running costs. Ridiculous.
I’m not even a dj but streaming and earning my money then seeing half of my money go into my bank account really does not sit right with me. But hey another day another dollar right? 😣
The positive- You get to keep 95% of your earnings and there's no minimum payout The negative- It's Kick I bit the bullet because I have debt I have to pay off but I don't feel good about it.
bear in mind, the music labels will eventually come for kick too, most likely. the kick community also isn't ideal... but perhaps if it gets flooded with DJs that may improve the kick culture.
@@Fae_4N Sure, but it's about survival too. As this program rolls out, the monthly costs go up. 30% of gross revenue, then Twitch double dipping with their split of what's left isn't viable.
Sorry Zach that is not correct. Yes the overall percentage is probably 25-30 (based on my numbers). DJ's are only paying 1/2 as Twitch is for now splitting the fee with DJ's. I will say as always the verbage Twitch uses is not clear. It doesn't say if this is the 100% amount or the 50%. As twitch paid Aug in total I believe it's 100 percent. The true test is Sept payout as you will actually see what comes out of your amount and a simple excel formula will tell you percentage.
@@jaylenjackson69 need to learn. Sorry but maybe you need to learn. No Idea what you think I am trying or what special cinsideration I am looking for. No one said anything about that. The video said DJ's pay 30% making the true percentage then 60%. Which I doubt is correct. I said my amount comes out to almost 12.5 % which is why I said the full percentage would probably be 25-30 which would be split 50/50. Not sure what is confusing
@@audz_martinz The way to determine what the percentage use is not rocket science. The best months to use are month 1 or 13+. Because are the months you see 100% amount. I did say the rate would be 25-30%. What I disagreed with was that the DJ share was 30%, as that would make the total percentage 60%. I know my rate comes out to be 12.5% which I believe is the 50% of the 25%. The amount of money you make vs someone else is not changing that percentage unless someone has a special deal. Yes some make more than others do to they splits with twitch on subs. However if everyone has the sam percentage and the labels are getting off the lets call gross number that makes no difference. I never said anything about dance music, so not sure what is meant by that
Note that this is 30% off the top.. THEN Twitch takes their 50%. Twitch definitely should get a share for all the platform costs.
When the labels and producers are willing to take (willing not happy) $0.0003 per streamed song for Spotify songs but they get to just take 30% for DJs promoting their songs is very unbalanced.
I kind of figured that it would be twitch takes their cut first and the creator is on the hook for paying the 30%. That seems more likely. So a 50-50 split of a $6.00 sub is 3.00 to the creator minus .90 equals $2.10 revenue going to the creator after twitch's cut and the rev share.
i'm new to all of this. I legally purchased all the music I play and I have to pay them again?!
Thank you for getting this out so quickly, I'm interested what we will see with a larger sample size than 100, but suspect that the 30%-ish will hold true.
Yeah. I will track it next month as well and see how much it changes. It COULD end up being slightly higher as it starts counting the day you opt in rather than the entire month.
@@ZachBusseywould you be open to tracking more data regarding amount of subs? I’m personally having a hard time accepting why I have the highest cut compared to anyone I’ve spoken to…
Next month, I'm going to ask for more details on income!
ie. Split out between subs/bits/ads earnings etc.
The only the DJ Program has done for me is expose me to more bots.
Get free viewers on tos.gg!
Here is you a bot list!
Yo Chad!
Well clearly they didn’t allow the list to stay up! 😂 imagine that! 😂
If you are having a bit problem on Twitch, I recommend looking into Sery Bot. I already use it in my stream, but do your own research on it
Great info. Thanks for all of this! Really appreciate the work you're doing not only to clarify communication but also provide analysis to help DJs make business decisions.
Glad it was helpful!
That's Right ❤
Wow!! Thank you Zach for this. Appreciate you taking the time to shine some clarity for us in this crazy time 😩 will definitely be looking into some tips
Welcome! Diversification is always wise!
If they don't want to tell you the number AND fell like they have to subsidize it, it's too much.
Usually the case yeah.
been DJing on Twitch for almost 10 years. Then finally, we get some love! But damn... not like this. SMH.
It's a tough one...
@@ZachBussey congrats you got away with stealing for 10 years. buck up
So here’s the deal: music labels usually take a huge cut from recording artists - we’re talking 70-85% of their earnings, plus a chunk from things like merch and tours. The reason for that? Labels put up a lot of cash to help artists record, promote, and tour.
But for Twitch DJs, it’s a whole different story. DJs don’t get any financial help from labels-they’re paying for their own equipment, doing their own thing, and bringing their own audience. When they play songs, they’re actually giving those tracks extra exposure, which helps labels and artists by driving new listeners to the music. So, for labels to ask DJs for 30-50% of their earnings just feels off. DJs are already adding value just by playing the music and getting people into it.
A better system would be for DJs to pay a smaller, fairer fee. Like, what if DJs could just pay a per-stream fee? So, they pay a set amount to access a whole music library for that stream. Another idea is a flat-rate subscription, where DJs pay monthly or yearly to use licensed music however they want. These options keep costs manageable for DJs and still give labels their share.
So bottom line? DJs don’t rely on labels for support, so they shouldn’t have to hand over big cuts. Smaller fees make it fair for everyone-DJs can earn a living, and labels still get paid.
Came for 20 seconds, stayed for 12 minutes in thanks. Great video as always Zach!
Legend!
Thank you for covering this Zach!
I hope it helps!
We DJ's already contribute to the artists by buying their music. Thirty percent is just Twitch corporate greed.
External Revenue - Another way to supplement income you didn't mention was focusing on booking club/festival gigs. Fourthwall does seem a great option, and merchandise too. Perhaps brand sponsorship could also be an option to some.
@@Fae_4N brands need to come to us and 98% of promotions offered to us our gaming related. And now more than ever, since we have no vods or clips allowed.. I think even less brands will want to sponsor us.
Twitch cmon, PLEASE do better. Thanks for your take Zach, have a sub bro. Us DJs need to be heard/seen especially those among us trying to stay afloat trying our ABSOLUTE best with dismal viewership/lack of support from others.
ALSO I noticed Twitch ONCE AGAIN is screwing us by clumping Music and DJing in the same category.
Listen...Twitch, we don't ask for much... we just want the recognition for what we do. We're here sharing what we love with one another, our love for music, but if our love for music isn't getting noticed or appreciated, then we'll happily find somewhere else to take our hobby.
VTUBERS get plenty of support, ARTISTS get plenty of support on the platform so what gives? Greed, yes. I know. This though will ultimately lead to the platforms downfall. People are going to get tired of it all. People already are tired of it all. We SHOULDN'T have to jump through hoops just to continue to persue our hobby. To whoever reads/sympathizes, thank you and know that you're not alone.
TY for informing the DJ community about this.
Always like shining light on darkness!
agreed my retention is ruined!
this is atypical for all the other TH-cam videos i've watched
i really don't know how to process this
/s
🤣
It happens... haha. I figured it was best to just put ti out there!
oh for frick's sake "Current editor me jumping in" meme
HAHAHA I had to!
Any news on the subject.... For me it looks like it's 35-38%....
Hey Zach, thank you for the very informative video. I'd like to pose a question that I asked on the Twitch Music Discord regarding the DJ Program and would like your (or anyone's) thoughts on my questions:
As Posted on Twitch Music - Official Discord
Hey guys, I'm new to this server and have a couple of questions regarding the DJ program. I have been a casual DJ streamer for a bit so I am currently not eligible for monetization. With the DJ program, I am now considering being on more regularly. As I am currently not monetizing, how would the fees apply to me? Would this also mean that the requirements for monetizing will be adjusted for those who do not stream that often? Also, based on what I have been reading, it seems like Twitch just has a mechanical license which covers the master recordings. How would these rules apply to remakes? I manage 2 labels myself and we have released works that were remakes (not remixes) of different tracks so I am just curious. My labels are covered by this license on Twitch and I already see most of my artists on here. Thanks in advance....
Again, I am just curious on your thoughts. Thank you again..... 🙂👍
Hey Matrix! I'll give you my answers. (But keep in mind that this is my interpretation of the rules and documents. I'm never quite sure how Twitch will react.)
1. If you're not a monetized streamer (not an affiliate, not a partner), then you have no economic impact. Twitch covers those costs.
2. Twitch may encourage you (perhaps strongly) to become an affiliate if you grow an audience.
3. I'm not sure about remakes.
Hope that helps!
If only kick had prime subs
DJd in London in the West End for 5 years before social media and Twitch, earnings of 100% went to me... but probably made more off the extras :)
What kind of music? (Huge Grime fan!)
@@ZachBussey was Deep Tech House and Progressive... Grime is just a bit too angry for me, much more into that old Liquid D & B sound.
I actually removed my affiliation with twitch and moved to Kick. funny enough I'm making more already. none of my music is in the program because I dj goth music. also I didn't want to remake my channel. Me and my community is not going to pay the to promote their music.
I myself am a bedroom DJ. There would be interest in streaming on Twitch. I don't want to make money on Twitch because I play for my own pleasure. I use VirtualDJ+Tidal with DJ integration (I already pay extra for it). Do I have to join the Twitch DJ program? If I have to, do I have to pay something even though I don't earn anything?
If you aren't a monetized creator (and thus earn no money from subs, bits, or ads because they aren't active on your account) then no, you would not have to pay anything. BUT, you would need to join the program. You'll get warnings otherwise.
I don’t get it. Is the 30% before the 50/50 split? Or do they take 30, give it to the labels, then apply the 50/50 split to the remainder? What if you have a DH that is new and doesn’t earn anything yet?
The suspected order of operations is... Someone Subs, (Payment Fees first), then the Industry cut, Then Twitch's cut. The rest to the streamer.
@@ZachBussey Yikes. What about DJs that dont make any subs, like small streamers?
Whats the link to check your SUBSIDY where is that link at
nevermind found it
I can see a u turn hopefully coming on this , like they did with the ad thing and promotion banner % on screen thing a few months back.
Outside donos will outstrip subs and bits is my prediction, or twitch will curl up its toes .
Sadly not. This is a legal agreement made with the music industry, they can't go back on it unfortunately.
@@ZachBussey Yes, but the industry can either have ra easonable percentage of 'something', or large chunk of 'nothing' as people monetise off platform.
@@DJBriskthis is a point I've been trying to make elsewhere.
I strongly feel the twitch DJ community should organise, go to twitch, tell them 30% is too much, tell them they need to go renegotiate the deal, and this time bring DJs voices to the table. Yes music labels hold the power... but DJs aren't some kind of 'leech', DJ's are incredibly valuable for both twitch AND music labels in spreading music and creating community and revenue. Of course the big guys are gonna try and say DJS have no power/worth, but, like in many other cases in history, we don't have to believe them. I get that twitch worked hard on the deal, but they need to do better.
@@Fae_4N Another point would be when was the last time you had to pay a venue to play in a venue ?
If individual PRS (performing rights licences encompassing the material we play ) could be obtained theoretically we could all wave our papers at twitch and play whatever , but the deal they have made with the labels seems a bit stilted , but i guess we will never know the exact details .. 30 % regardless without calculations/ number of plays would surely give somebody some cream to lick off the top after satisfying relevant parties ..
i feel bad for the dj's who already use things like beat port.
You Got Good Logistics 👍 Yes or No? Yes
I'm concerned about the impact this is going to have on DJ's with larger audiences/larger previous incomes, and if we are going to see a reduction in Twitch DJ Streamers as a result. There also remains the question of, with these changes, will Mixcloud prove a better option for DJs? Currently the community is at Twitch, but if DJs decline on Twitch (due to streaming on Twitch no longer being financially viable for those doing those as a way of earning an income) then it's possible the community may reduce also, over time?
@@Fae_4N as a full time streamer for the past 3 years… I can confidently say I will not be able to continue on the platform with these changes.
@@alleykay209 That's where I am after 7 years. It's simply far too much, and unless revised, will backfire for them and put many of us out of action.
@@DJBrisk breaks my heart man 🫂 such an unexplainable feeling to watch something you’ve grown for the past few years just die overnight.
@@alleykay209 I feel the same way, trust me. However, I believe our communities would rally around and cancel their subs in favour of a monthly Ko-Fi (or similar) donation once they know we are finished if they don’t. This means less income for Twitch and the labels, which due to greed, is a fair and just result as far as I’m concerned. None of us disagree that licensing should be in place, but not at such a high and unviable cost. It’s the equivalent of running a nightclub, but asking your staff to pay the running costs. Ridiculous.
@@DJBrisk ESPECIALLY since the cut is taken off our entire revenue not even the cut we get from twitch…. That part to me is just mind boggling.
Ive actually removed the DJ program not worth it at the end. Kick will be my go yo
I’m not even a dj but streaming and earning my money then seeing half of my money go into my bank account really does not sit right with me. But hey another day another dollar right? 😣
just got a 1 day ban for not being enrolled... copyright, so theres that
@@djericlee3003 ooft
whaaaaaaaaa artists want to be payed for their music!
If you are stuck in the boat of being afraid to leave twitch. remove the affiliation and use stream elements tips.
throne also works
So in other words f the dj program and stay in Music...
just go to kick!!!
Heh - that comes with some serious baggage as well.
The positive- You get to keep 95% of your earnings and there's no minimum payout
The negative- It's Kick
I bit the bullet because I have debt I have to pay off but I don't feel good about it.
bear in mind, the music labels will eventually come for kick too, most likely. the kick community also isn't ideal... but perhaps if it gets flooded with DJs that may improve the kick culture.
@@Fae_4N Sure, but it's about survival too. As this program rolls out, the monthly costs go up. 30% of gross revenue, then Twitch double dipping with their split of what's left isn't viable.
Zach isn't that really 15% as Twitch is paying 1/2
The industry cut supposedly comes out first... So any percentage impact would be about the same.
Sorry Zach that is not correct. Yes the overall percentage is probably 25-30 (based on my numbers). DJ's are only paying 1/2 as Twitch is for now splitting the fee with DJ's. I will say as always the verbage Twitch uses is not clear. It doesn't say if this is the 100% amount or the 50%. As twitch paid Aug in total I believe it's 100 percent. The true test is Sept payout as you will actually see what comes out of your amount and a simple excel formula will tell you percentage.
@@jaylenjackson69 need to learn. Sorry but maybe you need to learn. No Idea what you think I am trying or what special cinsideration I am looking for. No one said anything about that. The video said DJ's pay 30% making the true percentage then 60%. Which I doubt is correct. I said my amount comes out to almost 12.5 % which is why I said the full percentage would probably be 25-30 which would be split 50/50. Not sure what is confusing
@@jaylenjackson69 Math is not your strong point I see. lol
@@audz_martinz The way to determine what the percentage use is not rocket science. The best months to use are month 1 or 13+. Because are the months you see 100% amount. I did say the rate would be 25-30%. What I disagreed with was that the DJ share was 30%, as that would make the total percentage 60%. I know my rate comes out to be 12.5% which I believe is the 50% of the 25%. The amount of money you make vs someone else is not changing that percentage unless someone has a special deal. Yes some make more than others do to they splits with twitch on subs. However if everyone has the sam percentage and the labels are getting off the lets call gross number that makes no difference. I never said anything about dance music, so not sure what is meant by that
if we are being fair it should be 50 percent so stop crying