Beautiful edge off that black Arkansas. Good advice about keeping the blade on the stone. I forget when I first learned about that but it sure does make a difference! Very informative and great video.
Hey Jef! Paddy has been singing your praises for a long time. I finally got here to visit and man am I glad I did. Great work. Subbed. I use Simple Green for my lube on all stones, even the Japanese Water Stones (after soaking per mfg suggestions). I have had excellent results, especially on old Norton Oil Stones that were horribly clogged. After soaking in hot water and Simple Green, scrubbing with a stiff plastic brush, and flattening on sandpaper, they worked as good as new. Simple Green prevents them from re-clogging also. Take care. Thanks for the excellent content.
Ya know I have heard and seen videos of folks using simple green, and I have only tried it on oil stones. I need to experiment a bit more with that. I know windex works pretty good oil stones and diamonds, that's another one that might be interesting to try on water stones! Thanks for dropping in. Paddy is good people. Glad you found your way over :)
You bet. Hope it was clear. Not a big deal, unless your on a coarse stone, or putting lots of pressure down. Just one more feather to add to the hat, to help make your sharpening better :)
Hey Jef, thanks for your great videos very well done again, the macro edge shot's, and edge tester all help to make your efforts and skills even more appreciated and information even better understood, cheers!
Have been sloppily attempting at sharpening my knives for the last couple years, tried some oil stone I got from a local store and hated it, had almost given up even bothering to sharpen my knives until i got an idea to try and sharpen them with whetstones similar to the Japanese polishers because japanese culture is my favorite and have always loved the history of Japan and all the traditions of their country,they have such an art form and elegance to the sharpening and polishing they create on the blades, happened across your video and now I’m addicted to it, ordered my first ever whetstones based on your videos and some of the recommendations you have said , I have also recently gotten the 1k cerax , , Shapton Kuromaku 220 , 8k , and king S-1 6k , F-3 4K, and some Diamond plates. Thank you so very much, this has been very helpful with my ADHD and stress relief I appreciate your videos and content you have made, keep up the good job with all the content you are doing because there are others like me that you have helped too. Haha no offense but you sound almost exactly like Ichigo Kurosaki from the English bleach version when listening through my headphones , I can’t be the only one thinking this right 😅
Thank you for the kinds words. I gotta admit you had me searching youtube for bleach videos, trying to hear this characters voice 😂 I got a few buddies who watch anime, including Bleach, but i just never got into them. Glad you enjoyed my content. It is comments and viewers such as yourself, that make it worth while! So thank YOU 🙏
With any natural stones grits always vary. Supposed if you use them enough wearing them in the abrasive compound gets better. I didn’t wear one down enough to tell I got a supposed 15-30k Japanese natural stone. Very hard and wear resistant so I cannot verify if the said theory is true. Personally always finds it a pleasure to see you applying your skills. No matter what stones you can produce superior results.
Arkansas stones are pretty much "you know what you're getting" with a much much MUCH smaller degree of variability. Japanese natural stones are more...hit or miss; with no price reduction. BUT if you get a good one...
Awesome 👌 i always felt it was entirely too long. Glad you found it useful! I need to redo that, and condense it down, try to make it quicker to digest 🙂!
I bought and still have laying around somewhere Norton waterstones but they don't get used. I'm more into Japanese knives and the Japanese synthetic ceramic stones seem to be better in my opinion. I do have a soft and hard Arkansas that I use on the outdoor knives I use a lot. Hunting or fishing knives essentially. Great for a toothy resilient edge and very easy to use in the field or on my boat. I don't like to mess with oil at all but might try adding baby oil to the soap and water combo on the Arkansas stones. I do have some Japanese natural stones that I absolutely love. I've bought at least ten and half don't get much use. When you get a great one there's no better feeling but it's no guarantee and they're not cheap.
Yes the Norton stones i think are an odd lot. Hell, all American waterstones are. I can use them, but they aren’t my first choice. I’ve only tried a few jnats. The few i own are very fine. So they don’t sharpen well. I tried a couple loaner from a prof sharpener on Ig. They wouldn’t unlock for me. I could never quite get the hang of em. Synthetics are where I’m comfortable, and I’m ok with that. I have stones that leave both high Polish and kasumi like finishes. Just depends on what I’m sharpening.
Very interesting and a lot of work, thanks for posting. Love my arks and still use them on my wife's kitchen knives. Had to upgrade to the Venev diamond stones when I started carrying Maxamet, but still love the arks, as that's what I learned on. Look forward to your next video.
I learned on a Hard almost translucent, Ark. At least as a kid. Had that thing for years. Never got smoking edges like I can now a days, but it is what I started on. Too bad they can't handle carbide rich steels. I love using them.
I need to rewatch at least a couple of times before draw conclusions and questions but thank you so much for the magnification images and for the spent time. Do you have time and desire for redoing the test with 12c27 or 52100?
I don't have any knives in 52100. 12c27, I only have 2 or 3 knives, in that steel. They are not all the same models, like these Kershaw Crowns. So the comparison wouldn't be quite the same, although the edge magnifications should tell much. I'll see what I can whip up
Absolutely excellent comparison and answers a question I've been trying to answer for weeks: Never mind the evidently irrelevant grit size, how do the variously rated Arkansas stones and waterstones compare in the job they do? I've been learning freehand sharpening for a couple of months and really like the way the Arks feel, and this helps me think more sensibly about what to spend on and expect from them.
Fantastic 👏 glad you were able to gain some info from my rambling around 😁 Don’t hesitate to ask if ya have any questions. I can’t promise i have all the answers but i can def point ya towards someone who may
@@Jef Haha no worries those polished edges speak for themselves with no rambling. Seriously you're the first person I know of to investigate and state how the two types of stone compare in terms of function-sharpening versus finishing and polishing. They don't give that hard black away so again I was pretty interested in what I could expect. My own conclusion is there's no reason for me not to get a set of good Arks, but to be aware there's a lot of fancy modern steels they won't cut well. For the knives I deliberately chose as easy to sharpen, they're golden. For the harder steels there are other products. It's all good.
Ver interesting Video, many thanks for that. I wish You also had a "belgian blue" whetstone (around 6000 grit) in that comparssion, that's my favorite stone, (suitable also for high carbon steel) seemingly they're less known overseas.
I've looked into buying both the blue and the yellow for razor sharpening, but the price on it I couldnt justify at the time. The stone I was looking at came from the mines direct and was priced around $350. Maybe one day. Thanks for checking out the video!
@@Jef The yellow ones are better (polish a bit smoother and also faster) than the blue, but they cost significantly more. For smaller stones the price difference is not as huge, probably worth to chose the yellow quality. But I needed a big bench stone that's also suitable for my salmon filleting knife (12" flexible blade) and in that size the yellow was not an option for me. Now I know: it was a good choice. I'm really content with the quality of my blue stone. It also sharpens my straight razor ("DOVO" Solingen, Germany) and my kitchen knifes (Kai-Shun classic series) better than any other stone I ever owned. P.s. When I ordered it (online from Germany) about 15 Years ago, I paid almost twice as much than they cost today. Today a blue bench stone appx 12" x 4" costs about 180 Euros (*) and is imo worth every cent. (* including a 2" x 1" flattener stone, mine came with 1" x 1")
I’m not very good at recurve sharpening. My bevels tend to end up wavy. Regardless, the process is the same, i just use the .5 inch edge pro stones www.edgeproinc.com/sharpening-accessories/sharpening-stones/400-grit-mounted-sharpening-stone-p39.html
Good video. Did you name the test knives and maybe I just missed it? Either way, could you name the test knives, please? It’s a handy looking little knife.
I always put pertinent information in the description, as well as state it in the video. These particular knives are from Kershaw knives. The model name is The Kershaw Crown. 8cr13mov steel. Hope that helps
Crystolon [SiC] is black. [or dark green] The orange side is an India [AlOx] stone, likely ANSI 400 [something like JIS 600-800 as I recall, ymmv ]. The US stone makers are likely matching the basic JIS grit size categories but there is a difference in the actual chemistry and crystal structures. As well as a very likely difference in the blend of grit sizes within a grade, just due to different upstream manufacturing sources that make their bulk materials to a totally different set of specifications. Water stones are a very tiny market compared to the industrial grinding customers, so the water stones get a 'close enough' match. That said, grit size is not a measurement scale and has no mathematical basis at all, the numbers are indexes to discrete stand alone specifications. IOW there can't possibly be a 900 grit because there is no section 900 of the grit classification standards.(And it is likely the lower size bound of the 800 standard spec touches the upper size bound of 1000 standard spec. More overlap in fine grits as they are more difficult to handle sort and measure accurately due to static and other complications, while the coarse end can literally just use two screens and hit a narrow target. ) Whats more, none of the standards bodies have published grit sizes above about 3000grit JIS equivalent,(I forget the exact finest grade but about that) finer grits are considered specialty products and can be measured in all sorts of different ways. So any stone "grit" designation number above ~3000 is only a wild extrapolation and marketing department wank.
Oh one more thing the JIS or ANSI or CAMI etc, are only rating the loose grit, they have nothing to do with the performance of a final product made with that grit. And of course multiple grades of grit could be blended into one stone, though I can't say that would or wouldn't have some advantage in a corner case, generally in a stone it would be worst of both worlds; slow and scratched up.(But a very different effect in a compound put on a compressible backing.)
The pink patch in the hard Arkansas sounds much coarser. Listen to the change in sound as the blade goes from the white to the pink patch. What brand of Arks are those? Would be interesting to see the same tests run using light weight mineral oil on the Arks vs. the water, baby oil, and soap mixture. Very interesting and well done video. What is interesting is that all four of the tests came in the razor category on the chart. Well done.
Thanks. These are just a cheap set. “Best Sharpening” is the brand. You are correct on the rosey coloration having a coarse spot. It isn’t much but there is a definitive difference when concentrating that area. Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers!
My soft ark feels incocistace in the obviose transition areas of the stone. I've heard some claim approximatly 500 grit in variations. My hard, white and black translucents feel very concistant. From what I understand all the select stones have been mined out years ago.
@@JohnDoe-zb7dz yea i have heard the same. that all the good stones were mined out and what is left, is sub par. in my actual usage, i have never found an ark that felt coarser than most 1k stones. that would include the older washita stones i have. on another note, the current selection of stones that are being sold, have all seemed decent enough for me. i wouldn't complain about them being 'sub par' although that is what others have described them as.
I like your vids. The sounds the visuals the logic you use all make perfect sense. I don't sharpen a lot but I know how since in my teens. I still do when I need to. The comparisons you make between stone types are very good. The micro images confirm your impartial conclusions. Don't know about the paper tests tho, maybe the difference between tooth (hold) grip on the paper and angles. Your choice of lubricant makes totals sense, dish soap & water lift the slurry no doubt, and baby oil addition is a good idea, no harm in it.
Thank you very much for the kind words. None of this is any way scientific. Just my own musings and comparisons, which in the over all scheme of things, is anecdotal. Even so, it is still fun to look at and compare. Appreciate ya checking it out!
Your awesome man thank you for making this video that helped me out alot me thinking I might go for the Shapton stones I was oringally looking at now I just got to decide on the pros vs the Glass stones. And yes I agree you have to apply alot of pressure on the crystolon stones to get them have any feedback. And the Indian stone does give a edge but a very toothy edge. And I've heard that alot from people that the Norton waterstones are course than other water stone companies. I could hear the difference in the edge between the knives even though your right feeling the edge is alot better. Thanks again and have a great day man
Anytime. Shapton are a solid choice, no matter which set you choose. I prefer the Pro set, but others hold the Glass line in higher esteem. I just think they are soulless. They work however, and work well. I don't know how I got the Crystolon on my brain. I was meaning to say the India stone. The more pressure you lay down on it, the more feedback you get, as well as cutting speed. I rather like the edge it produces, although burrs developed are a bugger to deal with. Glad the video helped. Cheers!
@@Jef yes it did thank you again. I would like to get the natural Arkansas stones but after all the research it seems like the for what I want in a edge development and refinement I be better off with water stones. Don't get me wrong the arks can give a workable edge for me like the fine Indian but it's very aggressive at the same time and I kind of don't like that. The glass stones seem like they work better than the pros but it looks like the pros have better feedback than the glass stones do and have more material as well
Ehhh, I would say the opposite about the glass. The pro, for me, work better. There are steels, like s90v, I couldn't do anything with, after 1k, on the glass set. When I used the pro set, I was able to go to 5k, and get a nice polish. I've heard countless times, how the glass was designed for harder HRC steels, and wear resistant knives. I've found pro just work better. Again though, my opinions go against the mainstream. I also say the Gritomatic 240 Sic stones is a slow wearing stone, and others are reporting it wears faster than they are able to sharpen on it. SO what do I know? ;p
@@Jef I'm going to be mostly using it for kitchen knives that are between 60 to 66 on the Rockwell scale of hardness. Since most of the pocket knives I've collective I lost or misplaced.
Now I'm back to square one since I used my dalstrong shogun kiritsuke today after touching it up on the fine Indian and it produce a very sharp edge where I was chopping tomato slices with no drag so now I'm rethinking about Arkansas stones again. The video was still alot of help thanks again. I just now need to decide on Shapton stones or Arkansas stones.
Knives are mostly stainless steel. So a simple diamond stone works fine. However, for high carbon steel swords and machetes. Simple Steps For Me 1.) Sharpen and stropping motion with a second cut file, a few rounds until the edge starts shining 2.) a wide but short smooth flat rock as good as any Arkansas to polish smooth out the edge 3.) a leather strop to finish deburring the edge
Great video man. What are you using for magnification?, I'm wanting to get something to help make sure I'm getting all of the previous grit scratches out. I'm thinking something that plugs into a computer would be best because I wear glasses ( my vision sucks lol ), but I also dont want to break the bank.
I think you would get better results on the Norton 8K if you only did stropping strokes, at least that has been my experience when using the Norton 8K.
4k stone blade looks the best out of all the knife blades i see why it was the sharpest on the test.I was raised cutting meat an grandpa said if you get knife to sharp it want cut good .i hardly ever seen them sharpen the knife all they used was the stick hone an it was right back cutting.i seen meat shop the blade was sharpen off..but growing up you couldnt even tell the knifes we used was ever sharpen an we cut 1000s of animals
Most do come nice and sharp. I wouldn’t say they are ground symmetrically or well, but they usually have a nice keenness. There is always an exception, of course, and for whatever reason, i end up owning that exception
It’s in the video description Knives Used Kershaw Crown Steel type 8cr13mov Stones used Norton Cystolon Combo Fine Soft Arkansas stone Hard Arkansas stone Black Arkansas stone Norton Water stone combo 1000 grit Norton Water stone combo 4000 grit Norton Water stone combo 8000 grit StropBro's strop with white compound I mislabeled the scratch pattern on the Norton India stone as a Crystolon. Hopefully that won't cause any confusion
I have several videos up on stones, and what is a a good set. There are playlists I made showing all the videos of different sets, if you care to explore. sharpening stones I recommend th-cam.com/video/fcprUHO4Zgs/w-d-xo.html gritomatic stones th-cam.com/video/4xHhCZhTQH8/w-d-xo.html playlists th-cam.com/channels/Y_JhULUKTR38qk2OXxCV6A.htmlplaylists
Hey Jeff, have you tried any of the spyderco ceramics? A little torn between getting a 3 stone shapton pro setup or the 3 set spyderco ceramic stones (coarse, fine, ultrafine).
Yes I have the Spyderco ceramics. They are all pretty fine, including the "coarse". Unless you get the diamonds or cbn rods. The brown ceramic, has a cutting speed approx of a 2k shapton pro. They work well for micro bevels. Just not stones I go to, unless I am touching up an edge, or finishing. I did a comparison with the spyderco uf, and an old barbers hone, from back in the day. Franz Swaty. The scratch patterns were pretty close. I got a video of it, floating around somewhere, on my channel.
@@Jef Thanks for the clarification. If you don't mind me asking if you were to choose a shapton 3 stone setup would your recommend a (320, 2000, 8000) OR (320, 1000, 5000). I'll try and find the spyderco UF video
@@desmondlaw3703 Shapton Pro I would do 320, 1k, 5k. The 8k is very fine, and a bit over kill, for most pocket knives. The 5k is perfectly capable of giving a very high polish, and is my usual stopping point, when sharpening.
@@Jef it makes a milky white emulsion. It's effective! You can use whatever ever ratio that works for you. Just go on the ballistol website and it will give you the ratios of applications. Lol - it don't smell good, but there's something in it that cause oil and water to emulsify. you can put soap in it I guess. I never have felt the need to, because it's effective for me with just oil and water.
So I can get fantastic edges using Arkansas stones. But when I use water stones I just can’t for the life of me get them anywhere near the same level of sharpness. Since you use both, do you maybe have any idea why? I figured maybe you’d have some insight since you use both. I’m actually using the same norton water stone set you have here.
Well...One possibility may be the fact water stones are friable. The grit and abrasive can form a bit of slurry, even on harder water stones. This slurry can ride over the apex a bit, as you make your strokes. That can have 2 effects. One, it can lessen the burr. The other, it can ride across the apex, in essence, dulling it. Since Arkansas stones are not friable, this effect isn't present. There are ways to mitigate this when using water stones. Let them dry out a bit, so there is just a damp surface, when you are making your final passes. This can help mini,ize the amount of slurry. Or, you can combine the two. Sharpen on the water stones, and finish your edge on the Ark. I think you may find harder water stones more to your liking, than the friable types. For me personally, I do. Softer stones tend to give me the worst results. Check out Cliff Stamps forums, if you get time. They have TONS of info, talking about this sort of thing, and the intricacies of what is actually occurring, when you sharpen. Keep in mind too, I am just speculating what is happening. I do not know if the above is actually what you are experiencing, or if there is something else at play. Although Cliff's forums, would be the perfect spot to inquire, if you felt the need. Cheers!
When I compare it to my Shapton Pro 5K, the polishes are pretty close. As far as the sharpness goes, that is a bit more difficult to test. After a certain point, they all just feel sharp to me :p . Seems like most North American abrasive manufacturers, have a coarser rating, than the Japanese counter parts. There are so many grit scales, it is enough to make your head spin
The bess tester looks like its all over the place. Would a 1 gram kitchen weight and say push cutting paper be more accurate? Or try to use the bess scale just with paper if ya get what im saying?
Push cutting just like draw cutting, doesn't really give you a good indication. Take for example my cutting here. The black ark and 4k both felt the exact same. Yet the Bess score were about 60g difference. Keep in mind these are grams. All though the tests were a bit scattered, they were not huge differences. Just gotta take it all with a grain of salt, and use the average. Exactly why I do 3 cut tests, as opposed to just 1.
Your statment is correct but not completely in one aspect. I notice in the cutting test with black a too large difference in values! It states for a big lack of uniformity of contact of the blade duting honing. Otherwise 96 was very near to 94 of the 8k. This means that honing differently can reach the 8k. Second an apex by Norton needs for pastes diamond to be smooth whereas an apex with Arkansas is very smooth!😂 I don't like Arkansas too much but are better of Norton stones!!!!🎉!🎉🎉
I’ve touched up the edge on my karaku bunka in aogami 1. The hardness is around that. It touched up just fine. Now thinning i would advise a different stone. Arks are not friable, so large bevels are difficult to cut without lots of pressure and stone conditioning.
@@davidrishtakov1 Japanese cutlery isn't my forte. I only own one Bunka knife, and I have a gyuto waiting for me at the post office. I found my shapton pro stones worked really well on the bunka. Def give them a look. I also did a recent video using it with some Japanese natural stones. I have a video up titled "sharpening stones I recommend." If you search my channel you should find it. Hope that helps!
@@Jef will do. Big thanks. Btw, my favorite Japanese knife is a wa nakira (the wa stands for a traditional handle) with a Hitachi #1 steel. It's a very low carbon steel and produces a super crisp edge. Very delicate but man, it can cut! Thanks for the advice. I'll follow it!
I always recommend getting a piece of glass and silicon carbide powder, to recondition the surfaces. That will also help you to keep it flat. The powder can be found on ebay and amazon. Just search for silicon carbide powder or rock tumbling grit. Same stuff. As for the glass, keep an eye out for people throwing away old end tables or coffee tables. The glass can be cut if too large, with a scoring tool from Lowe's. TH-cam can show ya how to do it, and they don’t have to be perfect. Just flat :) Here is a video showing a little of reconditioning th-cam.com/video/jgIUQ4DYNSw/w-d-xo.html
Those numbers were really scattered at the end, I am not sure they are different enough to really say there is numerical evidence for them even being different. I know it is annoying, as I have done that myself, but you really need at least 10 measurements of each to make even a estimate of a comparison. If you ever want the comparisons done in a rigerous way, like using statistical analysis you can send them to me and I'll make up a spreadsheet that you can use to do it, just type in the numbers and it will do all the calculations for you. I can use google docs, or openoffice, what you want.
Yea I've had this tester give me results all over the place. At the same time, when stepping back and looking at the actual weight in grams, it is usually not as bad as I moan about. Esp when relating that weight, to everyday objects, like marshmallows. I think a large marshmallow weighs 6-7 grams. That kinda puts things into perspective for me. I just do the measurements, and avg em out with a calculator. Not that big a deal, although I tend to triple check myself, as I've posted incorrect results before. That is extremely annoying. I use google sheets, as well as Open Office, so if you want to create a spreedsheet that calculates it all, I would not turn it down!
@@Jef Here is a simple google docs spreadsheet : docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BMTjrmvgTOstyXSer5zh9HH6CfnYSIwEzFuauFveEbY/edit?usp=sharing You can enter up to five sets of data, up to 10 points each, and then pick any of the five to compare against each other. It essentially does a 2-way T-test, which is just a fancy way of saying could the difference you see has happened just by chance alone. Normally, a given rule (which is used in this document) is that IF the chance is < 5%, then you would consider the data as evidence that there is a "real" difference, i.e., it isn't just chance. This is the normal standard in the physical sciences, aside from the medical field which often uses a
Valid points. I try to minimize expectations on these tests, and stress they can be easily skewed. It's nice to be able to demonstrate to an audience, sharpness. Cutting paper, and other materials, only tells you so much. Thanks for the spreedsheet! I will make use of it for sure!
Flawed testing. Everyone know that blue scales are sharper than black ones! I find my black arks are around 4k though Dan's has them listed at 1200+. Say have you tried sharpening while holding the stone in your left hand the way Cliff Stamp does? I'd be interested in seeing the difference in your sharpness testing results. Hand held stone vs resting on the bench.
Yes I used to sharpen with stone in hand. I still do on occasion but it makes for poor videoing. I can test an edge or two in hand vs bench top, but I don't think there would be a considerable difference.
@Old Regular Baptist Radio I sharpen that way all the time while "sitting" in a recliner, listening to tv. That being said, I will admit to nearly taking a 1/16 of an inch off the tip of my little finger. I've since taught him to stay hidden under the stone. That little guy is a quick learner! The other time I was scrubbing an edge rather vigorously near the front of the stone. Short fast little strokes, not more than two inches long. Unfortunately the second to last stroke was three inches long and the knife slipped off and under he stone. The last stroke was a perfect push cut into the tip of my index finger which was supporting under the stone. I never knew I could aim so many derogatory expletives at myself! I did buy a cut glove but never use it. I just don't scrub much and only in the middle of the stone. I like Belgium Blue stones but but find no edge improvement over a Black Ark, both are nice. I think they're pretty equivalent stones. But I could be wrong.
@@Jef Sit in a recliner and film over your right shoulder. lol I'll teach you all my bad habits! Oh, better use oil as it stays put, that water is cold if you catch my drift.
Arkansas perform very bad just looking at their test cutting paper confirmed by the edge tester! You should use Dans stones and almist of all spend more time on Arkansas and less on 8k! That took the cutting edge back in sharpness!!😅 because you did too much strokes after the 4 k!! Use a microscope will help but I don't need😂!
@@Jef I notice every people hones different. But it is more important understand some professional works bad and not all looks good is really good! Just more dubious means best technique! Don't trust in what you see! But trust in what you feel!!!!🫡🤔🙄😵💫👽
That would make for a good video idea. How about sharing that knowledge with everyone? I bet many would benefit from it. If not, well I suppose I could do it. What exactly do you think will happen, if I contaminate one with the other? I'm not being a smart ass, I am genuinely curious. It's got me thinking about flattening an oil stone with my Atoma plate, and not cleaning it. Then flattening a water stone. Afterwards, of course, using it, and seeing what happens, if anything.
Did anyone else find it relaxing and satisfying to watch him sharpen his knives (Btw great sharpening video man)
Thank you very kindly :)
yes
Beautiful edge off that black Arkansas. Good advice about keeping the blade on the stone. I forget when I first learned about that but it sure does make a difference! Very informative and great video.
Thanks for checking it out 👊
Can't thank you enough for taking the time to develop vids like this, sharing your expertise and insights. Fantastic content.
Thanks for taking the time to watch it!
Eric, I agree with you 100 percent!
Hey Jef! Paddy has been singing your praises for a long time. I finally got here to visit and man am I glad I did. Great work. Subbed. I use Simple Green for my lube on all stones, even the Japanese Water Stones (after soaking per mfg suggestions). I have had excellent results, especially on old Norton Oil Stones that were horribly clogged. After soaking in hot water and Simple Green, scrubbing with a stiff plastic brush, and flattening on sandpaper, they worked as good as new. Simple Green prevents them from re-clogging also. Take care. Thanks for the excellent content.
Ya know I have heard and seen videos of folks using simple green, and I have only tried it on oil stones. I need to experiment a bit more with that. I know windex works pretty good oil stones and diamonds, that's another one that might be interesting to try on water stones! Thanks for dropping in. Paddy is good people. Glad you found your way over :)
Thanks Jeff that was interesting mate. And thank you for showing me what you meant appreciate that. Atb paddy 👍☘️😊
You bet. Hope it was clear. Not a big deal, unless your on a coarse stone, or putting lots of pressure down. Just one more feather to add to the hat, to help make your sharpening better :)
Hey Jef, thanks for your great videos very well done again, the macro edge shot's, and edge tester all help to make your efforts and skills even more appreciated and information even better understood, cheers!
Thanks for checking it out. Glad the scope helped. It's a pain in the butt to use.
Your cutting up perfectly good Corona freight coupon ads lol
:p
Have been sloppily attempting at sharpening my knives for the last couple years, tried some oil stone I got from a local store and hated it, had almost given up even bothering to sharpen my knives until i got an idea to try and sharpen them with whetstones similar to the Japanese polishers because japanese culture is my favorite and have always loved the history of Japan and all the traditions of their country,they have such an art form and elegance to the sharpening and polishing they create on the blades, happened across your video and now I’m addicted to it, ordered my first ever whetstones based on your videos and some of the recommendations you have said , I have also recently gotten the 1k cerax , , Shapton Kuromaku 220 , 8k , and king S-1 6k , F-3 4K, and some Diamond plates. Thank you so very much, this has been very helpful with my ADHD and stress relief I appreciate your videos and content you have made, keep up the good job with all the content you are doing because there are others like me that you have helped too. Haha no offense but you sound almost exactly like Ichigo Kurosaki from the English bleach version when listening through my headphones , I can’t be the only one thinking this right 😅
Thank you for the kinds words. I gotta admit you had me searching youtube for bleach videos, trying to hear this characters voice 😂
I got a few buddies who watch anime, including Bleach, but i just never got into them. Glad you enjoyed my content. It is comments and viewers such as yourself, that make it worth while! So thank YOU 🙏
With any natural stones grits always vary. Supposed if you use them enough wearing them in the abrasive compound gets better.
I didn’t wear one down enough to tell I got a supposed 15-30k Japanese natural stone. Very hard and wear resistant so I cannot verify if the said theory is true.
Personally always finds it a pleasure to see you applying your skills. No matter what stones you can produce superior results.
Arkansas stones are pretty much "you know what you're getting" with a much much MUCH smaller degree of variability.
Japanese natural stones are more...hit or miss; with no price reduction.
BUT if you get a good one...
Thank you for all your hard work makeing these videos I'm a beast now sharpening because of watching u
Fantastic to hear! Any video in particular you got use out of? I’d like to expand upon it to help others
@@Jef Watch "Knife Sharpening - Basic Technique and Demonstration" on TH-cam
th-cam.com/video/dDXT8zOn5FQ/w-d-xo.html
@@Jef that's my favorite video showed me how to hold the knife right and get my edge I was having alot of problems with uneven edges
Awesome 👌 i always felt it was entirely too long. Glad you found it useful! I need to redo that, and condense it down, try to make it quicker to digest 🙂!
I bought and still have laying around somewhere Norton waterstones but they don't get used. I'm more into Japanese knives and the Japanese synthetic ceramic stones seem to be better in my opinion. I do have a soft and hard Arkansas that I use on the outdoor knives I use a lot. Hunting or fishing knives essentially. Great for a toothy resilient edge and very easy to use in the field or on my boat. I don't like to mess with oil at all but might try adding baby oil to the soap and water combo on the Arkansas stones. I do have some Japanese natural stones that I absolutely love. I've bought at least ten and half don't get much use. When you get a great one there's no better feeling but it's no guarantee and they're not cheap.
Yes the Norton stones i think are an odd lot. Hell, all American waterstones are. I can use them, but they aren’t my first choice. I’ve only tried a few jnats. The few i own are very fine. So they don’t sharpen well. I tried a couple loaner from a prof sharpener on Ig. They wouldn’t unlock for me. I could never quite get the hang of em. Synthetics are where I’m comfortable, and I’m ok with that. I have stones that leave both high Polish and kasumi like finishes. Just depends on what I’m sharpening.
Great video and analysis. Thank you
Thanks for taking the time to watch it!
That water baby oil mix all man it works so nice I even use it on my diamond stones now wow what a difference
Me too. I use it on everything except my normal water stones
Very interesting and a lot of work, thanks for posting. Love my arks and still use them on my wife's kitchen knives. Had to upgrade to the Venev diamond stones when I started carrying Maxamet, but still love the arks, as that's what I learned on. Look forward to your next video.
I learned on a Hard almost translucent, Ark. At least as a kid. Had that thing for years. Never got smoking edges like I can now a days, but it is what I started on. Too bad they can't handle carbide rich steels. I love using them.
Very cool ! Молодцом ! Спасибо чувак !
Thank you 🙏
You do God's work my friend.
🍻
Wow so much work for one vid. Bravo!
I debated putting up an uncut version. Run time would be close to 80 minutes :p
I need to rewatch at least a couple of times before draw conclusions and questions but thank you so much for the magnification images and for the spent time. Do you have time and desire for redoing the test with 12c27 or 52100?
I don't have any knives in 52100.
12c27, I only have 2 or 3 knives, in that steel. They are not all the same models, like these Kershaw Crowns. So the comparison wouldn't be quite the same, although the edge magnifications should tell much. I'll see what I can whip up
Absolutely excellent comparison and answers a question I've been trying to answer for weeks: Never mind the evidently irrelevant grit size, how do the variously rated Arkansas stones and waterstones compare in the job they do? I've been learning freehand sharpening for a couple of months and really like the way the Arks feel, and this helps me think more sensibly about what to spend on and expect from them.
Fantastic 👏 glad you were able to gain some info from my rambling around 😁 Don’t hesitate to ask if ya have any questions. I can’t promise i have all the answers but i can def point ya towards someone who may
@@Jef Haha no worries those polished edges speak for themselves with no rambling. Seriously you're the first person I know of to investigate and state how the two types of stone compare in terms of function-sharpening versus finishing and polishing. They don't give that hard black away so again I was pretty interested in what I could expect. My own conclusion is there's no reason for me not to get a set of good Arks, but to be aware there's a lot of fancy modern steels they won't cut well. For the knives I deliberately chose as easy to sharpen, they're golden. For the harder steels there are other products. It's all good.
Ver interesting Video, many thanks for that.
I wish You also had a "belgian blue" whetstone (around 6000 grit) in that comparssion,
that's my favorite stone, (suitable also for high carbon steel) seemingly they're less known overseas.
I've looked into buying both the blue and the yellow for razor sharpening, but the price on it I couldnt justify at the time. The stone I was looking at came from the mines direct and was priced around $350. Maybe one day. Thanks for checking out the video!
@@Jef The yellow ones are better (polish a bit smoother and also faster) than the blue, but they cost significantly more. For smaller stones the price difference is not as huge, probably worth to chose the yellow quality. But I needed a big bench stone that's also suitable for my salmon filleting knife (12" flexible blade) and in that size the yellow was not an option for me. Now I know: it was a good choice. I'm really content with the quality of my blue stone. It also sharpens my straight razor ("DOVO" Solingen, Germany) and my kitchen knifes (Kai-Shun classic series) better than any other stone I ever owned.
P.s. When I ordered it (online from Germany) about 15 Years ago, I paid almost twice as much than they cost today.
Today a blue bench stone appx 12" x 4" costs about 180 Euros (*) and is imo worth every cent.
(* including a 2" x 1" flattener stone,
mine came with 1" x 1")
A video on how to sharpen recurve blades, would be very helpful.
I’m not very good at recurve sharpening. My bevels tend to end up wavy. Regardless, the process is the same, i just use the .5 inch edge pro stones
www.edgeproinc.com/sharpening-accessories/sharpening-stones/400-grit-mounted-sharpening-stone-p39.html
@@Jef 👍
if you have a stone without a "foot", use the sides to get your recurves, i learned the hard way and ruined a really good knife
Use a Scythe Stone
Excellent video man.
Thanks for checking it out 👊
Good video. Did you name the test knives and maybe I just missed it? Either way, could you name the test knives, please? It’s a handy looking little knife.
I always put pertinent information in the description, as well as state it in the video. These particular knives are from Kershaw knives. The model name is The Kershaw Crown. 8cr13mov steel. Hope that helps
Jef Jewell thank you
Crystolon [SiC] is black. [or dark green] The orange side is an India [AlOx] stone, likely ANSI 400 [something like JIS 600-800 as I recall, ymmv ]. The US stone makers are likely matching the basic JIS grit size categories but there is a difference in the actual chemistry and crystal structures. As well as a very likely difference in the blend of grit sizes within a grade, just due to different upstream manufacturing sources that make their bulk materials to a totally different set of specifications. Water stones are a very tiny market compared to the industrial grinding customers, so the water stones get a 'close enough' match.
That said, grit size is not a measurement scale and has no mathematical basis at all, the numbers are indexes to discrete stand alone specifications. IOW there can't possibly be a 900 grit because there is no section 900 of the grit classification standards.(And it is likely the lower size bound of the 800 standard spec touches the upper size bound of 1000 standard spec. More overlap in fine grits as they are more difficult to handle sort and measure accurately due to static and other complications, while the coarse end can literally just use two screens and hit a narrow target. )
Whats more, none of the standards bodies have published grit sizes above about 3000grit JIS equivalent,(I forget the exact finest grade but about that) finer grits are considered specialty products and can be measured in all sorts of different ways. So any stone "grit" designation number above ~3000 is only a wild extrapolation and marketing department wank.
Oh one more thing the JIS or ANSI or CAMI etc, are only rating the loose grit, they have nothing to do with the performance of a final product made with that grit. And of course multiple grades of grit could be blended into one stone, though I can't say that would or wouldn't have some advantage in a corner case, generally in a stone it would be worst of both worlds; slow and scratched up.(But a very different effect in a compound put on a compressible backing.)
The pink patch in the hard Arkansas sounds much coarser. Listen to the change in sound as the blade goes from the white to the pink patch. What brand of Arks are those? Would be interesting to see the same tests run using light weight mineral oil on the Arks vs. the water, baby oil, and soap mixture. Very interesting and well done video. What is interesting is that all four of the tests came in the razor category on the chart. Well done.
Thanks. These are just a cheap set. “Best Sharpening” is the brand. You are correct on the rosey coloration having a coarse spot. It isn’t much but there is a definitive difference when concentrating that area.
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers!
My soft ark feels incocistace in the obviose transition areas of the stone.
I've heard some claim approximatly
500 grit in variations. My hard, white
and black translucents feel very
concistant. From what I understand all the select stones have been mined out years ago.
@@JohnDoe-zb7dz yea i have heard the same. that all the good stones were mined out and what is left, is sub par. in my actual usage, i have never found an ark that felt coarser than most 1k stones. that would include the older washita stones i have.
on another note, the current selection of stones that are being sold, have all seemed decent enough for me. i wouldn't complain about them being 'sub par' although that is what others have described them as.
I like your vids. The sounds the visuals the logic you use all make perfect sense. I don't sharpen a lot but I know how since in my teens. I still do when I need to. The comparisons you make between stone types are very good.
The micro images confirm your impartial conclusions.
Don't know about the paper tests tho, maybe the difference between tooth (hold) grip on the paper and angles.
Your choice of lubricant makes totals sense, dish soap & water lift the slurry no doubt, and baby oil addition is a good idea, no harm in it.
Thank you very much for the kind words. None of this is any way scientific. Just my own musings and comparisons, which in the over all scheme of things, is anecdotal. Even so, it is still fun to look at and compare. Appreciate ya checking it out!
Your awesome man thank you for making this video that helped me out alot me thinking I might go for the Shapton stones I was oringally looking at now I just got to decide on the pros vs the Glass stones. And yes I agree you have to apply alot of pressure on the crystolon stones to get them have any feedback. And the Indian stone does give a edge but a very toothy edge. And I've heard that alot from people that the Norton waterstones are course than other water stone companies. I could hear the difference in the edge between the knives even though your right feeling the edge is alot better. Thanks again and have a great day man
Anytime. Shapton are a solid choice, no matter which set you choose. I prefer the Pro set, but others hold the Glass line in higher esteem. I just think they are soulless. They work however, and work well.
I don't know how I got the Crystolon on my brain. I was meaning to say the India stone. The more pressure you lay down on it, the more feedback you get, as well as cutting speed. I rather like the edge it produces, although burrs developed are a bugger to deal with.
Glad the video helped. Cheers!
@@Jef yes it did thank you again. I would like to get the natural Arkansas stones but after all the research it seems like the for what I want in a edge development and refinement I be better off with water stones. Don't get me wrong the arks can give a workable edge for me like the fine Indian but it's very aggressive at the same time and I kind of don't like that.
The glass stones seem like they work better than the pros but it looks like the pros have better feedback than the glass stones do and have more material as well
Ehhh, I would say the opposite about the glass. The pro, for me, work better. There are steels, like s90v, I couldn't do anything with, after 1k, on the glass set. When I used the pro set, I was able to go to 5k, and get a nice polish. I've heard countless times, how the glass was designed for harder HRC steels, and wear resistant knives. I've found pro just work better. Again though, my opinions go against the mainstream. I also say the Gritomatic 240 Sic stones is a slow wearing stone, and others are reporting it wears faster than they are able to sharpen on it. SO what do I know? ;p
@@Jef I'm going to be mostly using it for kitchen knives that are between 60 to 66 on the Rockwell scale of hardness. Since most of the pocket knives I've collective I lost or misplaced.
Now I'm back to square one since I used my dalstrong shogun kiritsuke today after touching it up on the fine Indian and it produce a very sharp edge where I was chopping tomato slices with no drag so now I'm rethinking about Arkansas stones again. The video was still alot of help thanks again. I just now need to decide on Shapton stones or Arkansas stones.
Hey bud great vid liberally enjoyed watching it!!!
Thanks bro. Let me know when your ready for that compound.
💯 awesome video, thanks!
thank you!
Great video!!!! Thank you!!!
Thank you for watching
Knives are mostly stainless steel. So a simple diamond stone works fine. However, for high carbon steel swords and machetes. Simple Steps For Me 1.) Sharpen and stropping motion with a second cut file, a few rounds until the edge starts shining 2.) a wide but short smooth flat rock as good as any Arkansas to polish smooth out the edge 3.) a leather strop to finish deburring the edge
More than one way to skin a cat 😁
I never cared much for diamonds however. They remove too much material imo.
I really enjoyed that. Thank you.
Thanks for checking it out. 👍
Great video man. What are you using for magnification?, I'm wanting to get something to help make sure I'm getting all of the previous grit scratches out. I'm thinking something that plugs into a computer would be best because I wear glasses ( my vision sucks lol ), but I also dont want to break the bank.
Opti-Tekscope USB scope - Approx $90 on Amazon
I think you would get better results on the Norton 8K if you only did stropping strokes, at least that has been my experience when using the Norton 8K.
As soft as it is you are probably correct 👌
4k stone blade looks the best out of all the knife blades i see why it was the sharpest on the test.I was raised cutting meat an grandpa said if you get knife to sharp it want cut good .i hardly ever seen them sharpen the knife all they used was the stick hone an it was right back cutting.i seen meat shop the blade was sharpen off..but growing up you couldnt even tell the knifes we used was ever sharpen an we cut 1000s of animals
dont get me wrong you could shave your face with our knife grandpa said it all about the metal of the blade how good they hold edge
Where did you get the micro mag glass.
Where did i get the microscope? Not sure what you are referencing
Kershaw tend to sharpen and polish well, IMHO.
Most do come nice and sharp. I wouldn’t say they are ground symmetrically or well, but they usually have a nice keenness. There is always an exception, of course, and for whatever reason, i end up owning that exception
What is the make and model of the knifes?
It’s in the video description
Knives Used
Kershaw Crown
Steel type
8cr13mov
Stones used
Norton Cystolon Combo Fine
Soft Arkansas stone
Hard Arkansas stone
Black Arkansas stone
Norton Water stone combo 1000 grit
Norton Water stone combo 4000 grit
Norton Water stone combo 8000 grit
StropBro's strop with white compound
I mislabeled the scratch pattern on the Norton India stone as a Crystolon. Hopefully that won't cause any confusion
Do you have any beginner's videos on stones, and especially how to deal with burr? I am looking for a good affordable set of stones to use.
I have several videos up on stones, and what is a a good set. There are playlists I made showing all the videos of different sets, if you care to explore.
sharpening stones I recommend
th-cam.com/video/fcprUHO4Zgs/w-d-xo.html
gritomatic stones
th-cam.com/video/4xHhCZhTQH8/w-d-xo.html
playlists
th-cam.com/channels/Y_JhULUKTR38qk2OXxCV6A.htmlplaylists
Hey Jeff, have you tried any of the spyderco ceramics? A little torn between getting a 3 stone shapton pro setup or the 3 set spyderco ceramic stones (coarse, fine, ultrafine).
Yes I have the Spyderco ceramics. They are all pretty fine, including the "coarse". Unless you get the diamonds or cbn rods. The brown ceramic, has a cutting speed approx of a 2k shapton pro. They work well for micro bevels. Just not stones I go to, unless I am touching up an edge, or finishing. I did a comparison with the spyderco uf, and an old barbers hone, from back in the day. Franz Swaty. The scratch patterns were pretty close. I got a video of it, floating around somewhere, on my channel.
th-cam.com/video/MtqyTK9YsZg/w-d-xo.html
@@Jef Thanks for the clarification. If you don't mind me asking if you were to choose a shapton 3 stone setup would your recommend a (320, 2000, 8000) OR (320, 1000, 5000). I'll try and find the spyderco UF video
@@desmondlaw3703 Shapton Pro I would do 320, 1k, 5k. The 8k is very fine, and a bit over kill, for most pocket knives. The 5k is perfectly capable of giving a very high polish, and is my usual stopping point, when sharpening.
Ive used a RH Preyda gard on 20CV and it cut fine but I used a 750 diamond first.
If Arkansas stones are made of Arkansas are water stones made of water?
Great work , Jef 😎
Thanks! Long one, but there was lots to go over.
Ballistol + water forms an emulsion. 4 parts water, 1 part ballistol.
nice! i'll have to try that recipe, thanks!
@@Jef it makes a milky white emulsion. It's effective! You can use whatever ever ratio that works for you. Just go on the ballistol website and it will give you the ratios of applications. Lol - it don't smell good, but there's something in it that cause oil and water to emulsify.
you can put soap in it I guess. I never have felt the need to, because it's effective for me with just oil and water.
@@Jef You can also just use Dawn.
So I can get fantastic edges using Arkansas stones. But when I use water stones I just can’t for the life of me get them anywhere near the same level of sharpness. Since you use both, do you maybe have any idea why? I figured maybe you’d have some insight since you use both. I’m actually using the same norton water stone set you have here.
Well...One possibility may be the fact water stones are friable. The grit and abrasive can form a bit of slurry, even on harder water stones. This slurry can ride over the apex a bit, as you make your strokes. That can have 2 effects. One, it can lessen the burr. The other, it can ride across the apex, in essence, dulling it.
Since Arkansas stones are not friable, this effect isn't present. There are ways to mitigate this when using water stones. Let them dry out a bit, so there is just a damp surface, when you are making your final passes. This can help mini,ize the amount of slurry. Or, you can combine the two. Sharpen on the water stones, and finish your edge on the Ark. I think you may find harder water stones more to your liking, than the friable types. For me personally, I do. Softer stones tend to give me the worst results.
Check out Cliff Stamps forums, if you get time. They have TONS of info, talking about this sort of thing, and the intricacies of what is actually occurring, when you sharpen. Keep in mind too, I am just speculating what is happening. I do not know if the above is actually what you are experiencing, or if there is something else at play. Although Cliff's forums, would be the perfect spot to inquire, if you felt the need.
Cheers!
Jef Jewell wow, thanks so much for the reply!
I've always thought that about the norton 4k too, it seemed way more course than a 4k naniwa but the 8k does seem to be close to 8k in my experience
When I compare it to my Shapton Pro 5K, the polishes are pretty close. As far as the sharpness goes, that is a bit more difficult to test. After a certain point, they all just feel sharp to me :p . Seems like most North American abrasive manufacturers, have a coarser rating, than the Japanese counter parts. There are so many grit scales, it is enough to make your head spin
The bess tester looks like its all over the place. Would a 1 gram kitchen weight and say push cutting paper be more accurate? Or try to use the bess scale just with paper if ya get what im saying?
Push cutting just like draw cutting, doesn't really give you a good indication. Take for example my cutting here. The black ark and 4k both felt the exact same. Yet the Bess score were about 60g difference. Keep in mind these are grams. All though the tests were a bit scattered, they were not huge differences. Just gotta take it all with a grain of salt, and use the average. Exactly why I do 3 cut tests, as opposed to just 1.
@@Jef yes understand that hm isnt easy to find a way to show if a edge is truely uniform and suited to its task hehe
That is like 20 penny's or 8 marshmellows worth of weight in difference :p
@@Jef haha yeah
Your statment is correct but not completely in one aspect. I notice in the cutting test with black a too large difference in values! It states for a big lack of uniformity of contact of the blade duting honing. Otherwise 96 was very near to 94 of the 8k.
This means that honing differently can reach the 8k.
Second an apex by Norton needs for pastes diamond to be smooth whereas an apex with Arkansas is very smooth!😂 I don't like Arkansas too much but are better of Norton stones!!!!🎉!🎉🎉
Can the Arkansas sharpen a 62 Rockwell Japanese chef knife?
I’ve touched up the edge on my karaku bunka in aogami 1. The hardness is around that. It touched up just fine. Now thinning i would advise a different stone. Arks are not friable, so large bevels are difficult to cut without lots of pressure and stone conditioning.
I certainly appreciate the video
I certainly appreciate you watching it!
@@Jef what a response! Excellent! Btw, I collet and use Japanese cooking knives. What stone would you suggest for keeping them with a fine edge?
I use a 1000 but I hate to scrape off so much steel for a simple hone
@@davidrishtakov1 Japanese cutlery isn't my forte. I only own one Bunka knife, and I have a gyuto waiting for me at the post office. I found my shapton pro stones worked really well on the bunka. Def give them a look. I also did a recent video using it with some Japanese natural stones.
I have a video up titled "sharpening stones I recommend." If you search my channel you should find it. Hope that helps!
@@Jef will do. Big thanks. Btw, my favorite Japanese knife is a wa nakira (the wa stands for a traditional handle) with a Hitachi #1 steel. It's a very low carbon steel and produces a super crisp edge. Very delicate but man, it can cut!
Thanks for the advice. I'll follow it!
I wonder what would happen if you used oil , instead of water , on the Arkansas stones ?
The lubricant I use is oil, soap, and water. I've used oil plenty of times on Arks, and I don't think it would change much.
@@Jef thanks for your reply
My soft arkansas stone gives me a polish silimar to the black one you have Interesting must be related more to the depth of the scratches they make :D
If you don't condition the surface, they get a glazed sort of texture. That is when they will start to polish, more than cut.
@@Jef oh interesting I didn't know that.
I always recommend getting a piece of glass and silicon carbide powder, to recondition the surfaces. That will also help you to keep it flat. The powder can be found on ebay and amazon. Just search for silicon carbide powder or rock tumbling grit. Same stuff. As for the glass, keep an eye out for people throwing away old end tables or coffee tables. The glass can be cut if too large, with a scoring tool from Lowe's. TH-cam can show ya how to do it, and they don’t have to be perfect. Just flat :)
Here is a video showing a little of reconditioning
th-cam.com/video/jgIUQ4DYNSw/w-d-xo.html
It looks like you use soapy water on the Arkansas stones?
1 part dish soap, 1 part oil, 4 parts water 2:40
How high did u lap your black 2?
I used silicone carbide powder on glass. Do a search for stone conditioning/lapping.
@@Jef I use the same i take mine up to 1200 but i think i need to lap it a little finer to get better results
I stop around 600. Any finer on my stone, and it doesn’t cut well. I get a burnishing effect.
Just timed it, it takes me 15 seconds to sharpen my blades screaming sharp.
👏
Seem like in the microscope some part of the sharpening didn't go always to the edge the scratch pattern not alway complete
Did this awhile ago. Can’t recall off the top of my head but you are probably correct
Those numbers were really scattered at the end, I am not sure they are different enough to really say there is numerical evidence for them even being different. I know it is annoying, as I have done that myself, but you really need at least 10 measurements of each to make even a estimate of a comparison. If you ever want the comparisons done in a rigerous way, like using statistical analysis you can send them to me and I'll make up a spreadsheet that you can use to do it, just type in the numbers and it will do all the calculations for you. I can use google docs, or openoffice, what you want.
Yea I've had this tester give me results all over the place. At the same time, when stepping back and looking at the actual weight in grams, it is usually not as bad as I moan about. Esp when relating that weight, to everyday objects, like marshmallows. I think a large marshmallow weighs 6-7 grams. That kinda puts things into perspective for me.
I just do the measurements, and avg em out with a calculator. Not that big a deal, although I tend to triple check myself, as I've posted incorrect results before. That is extremely annoying. I use google sheets, as well as Open Office, so if you want to create a spreedsheet that calculates it all, I would not turn it down!
@@Jef Here is a simple google docs spreadsheet :
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BMTjrmvgTOstyXSer5zh9HH6CfnYSIwEzFuauFveEbY/edit?usp=sharing
You can enter up to five sets of data, up to 10 points each, and then pick any of the five to compare against each other. It essentially does a 2-way T-test, which is just a fancy way of saying could the difference you see has happened just by chance alone.
Normally, a given rule (which is used in this document) is that IF the chance is < 5%, then you would consider the data as evidence that there is a "real" difference, i.e., it isn't just chance. This is the normal standard in the physical sciences, aside from the medical field which often uses a
Valid points. I try to minimize expectations on these tests, and stress they can be easily skewed. It's nice to be able to demonstrate to an audience, sharpness. Cutting paper, and other materials, only tells you so much. Thanks for the spreedsheet! I will make use of it for sure!
I have a terrible habit of coming off the stone at the end of my strokes.
Me too. I try to show all my mistakes bc i don’t want others to have illusions that everything is perfect.
Flawed testing. Everyone know that blue scales are sharper than black ones! I find my black arks are around 4k though Dan's has them listed at 1200+.
Say have you tried sharpening while holding the stone in your left hand the way Cliff Stamp does? I'd be interested in seeing the difference in your sharpness testing results. Hand held stone vs resting on the bench.
lol. I concur. I didn't think anyone would notice, however.
Yes I used to sharpen with stone in hand. I still do on occasion but it makes for poor videoing. I can test an edge or two in hand vs bench top, but I don't think there would be a considerable difference.
@Old Regular Baptist Radio I sharpen that way all the time while "sitting" in a recliner, listening to tv. That being said, I will admit to nearly taking a 1/16 of an inch off the tip of my little finger. I've since taught him to stay hidden under the stone. That little guy is a quick learner!
The other time I was scrubbing an edge rather vigorously near the front of the stone. Short fast little strokes, not more than two inches long. Unfortunately the second to last stroke was three inches long and the knife slipped off and under he stone. The last stroke was a perfect push cut into the tip of my index finger which was supporting under the stone. I never knew I could aim so many derogatory expletives at myself! I did buy a cut glove but never use it. I just don't scrub much and only in the middle of the stone.
I like Belgium Blue stones but but find no edge improvement over a Black Ark, both are nice. I think they're pretty equivalent stones. But I could be wrong.
@@Jef Sit in a recliner and film over your right shoulder. lol I'll teach you all my bad habits! Oh, better use oil as it stays put, that water is cold if you catch my drift.
😂
Arkansas perform very bad just looking at their test cutting paper confirmed by the edge tester! You should use Dans stones and almist of all spend more time on Arkansas and less on 8k! That took the cutting edge back in sharpness!!😅 because you did too much strokes after the 4 k!! Use a microscope will help but I don't need😂!
arks aren't my forte :)
thanks for the advice however.
@@Jef I notice every people hones different. But it is more important understand some professional works bad and not all looks good is really good! Just more dubious means best technique! Don't trust in what you see! But trust in what you feel!!!!🫡🤔🙄😵💫👽
water stones and oil stones on the same table together, shake my head.....great way to contaminate your water stones.
That would make for a good video idea. How about sharing that knowledge with everyone? I bet many would benefit from it. If not, well I suppose I could do it. What exactly do you think will happen, if I contaminate one with the other? I'm not being a smart ass, I am genuinely curious. It's got me thinking about flattening an oil stone with my Atoma plate, and not cleaning it. Then flattening a water stone. Afterwards, of course, using it, and seeing what happens, if anything.