When I first came across this channel several years ago, I was struck by what felt like an oddity to me of someone using a Tormek machine as the centerpiece of a sharpening business. Tormek is capable of giving a decently sharp edge, but it's slow. It looks like this business came to the same conclusion and bypassed the Tormek slowness by using a combination of CBN wheels on the Tormek, paper wheels on a grinder, and speed increaser on the Tormek spindle.
@@janchristensen1738 ja, æret været hans minde. Fin læring om at skærpe knive, jeg har købt hans bog den er ret kompliceret, men forstår man helheden kan den gøre det lettere at vælge det rigtige udstyr :)
Wonderful to see! I guess this works best for dull knives that were previously set to 12dps. Would the setup change at all for very dull/damaged knives, or ones needing a new edge angle (for example dropping from 20 to 12 dps)? Thank you.
Brad, to grind at the existing angle, we do 1 pass even with grossly dull knives, and to grind from 15 to 12 degrees, we do 2 passes on the CBN #160. They grind extremely fast. As seen by timing in the video, the grinding itself on the 2 CBN wheels takes only 30 sec, while deburring takes twice the time, near 60 sec. Plus about 1 min takes clamping in the jig and cleaning the blade.
How do you find out what the original angle is of the knife you sharpen? How much was your whole set up? How do you fix chips and broken tips with your set up?
From my research green honing compound, similar to what you use on the rock hard felt wheel is typically a composite of aluminum oxide and chromium oxide at a particle size of .5 micron in wax. Or if specified chromium oxide alone in wax. Assuming the chromium powder you use on the slotted paper wheel is of the same particle size why do you use two different forms? And not just use the bar or powder on both? Love the videos, your replies are much appreciated.
Green Rouge is 68-75% aluminium oxide of particle size 6-10 microns, and under 5% chromium oxide of particle size 0.5-3 microns in wax. We use the Green Rouge on felt to remove the main burr. On the finishing slotted paper wheel we have pure chromium oxide avg. particle size 0.3 mircron - this wheel removes wire edge from the previous deburring step.
It would, but there are alternatives that in my opinion is even better :) I have a machine that I'm very happy with. I can show you if you want to :) I will send you a message on instagram. The problem is using water when the speed gets higher :)
@@Mljtyykl I use machines from Cuttermasters in Canada. Can fitt dual CBN wheels or felt if you want that. 50-2000RPM. This is the best solution for wheels if you ask me. The best service from great guys working there. The owner Jeff is as innovative as they come. I think se mine with high pressure water spray to cool even more. I did a test on a really broken Victorinox chefs knife. Removed the damage and made a new edge, razor sharp in 2,5min. Hones on Paperwheels. Definitively my favorite setup 👌
This comes from years of our experience with meat plants and sharpening for commercial kitchens on CBN wheels. For sharpening boning, butcher and kitchen knives we do not need CBN grit finer than #400. Many of these knives can be done on #400 alone. When the edge is grossly dull or chipped and needs repair, start sharpening on the CBN wheel #160.
anything in the lower range, say 140 to 300 is used for grinding or shaping. it's not used to create a cutting edge, but just to grind away the rough shape. 400 is what they edge to make the edge. anything in that range. factory or production stuff rarely goes any finer than 600 grit. 400 is common. 300 is common. then they just so straight to polishing/buffing to smooth it out and get rid of burrs. thats how most mass produced stuff is done. grinded into shape. sharpened with something like 300 grit. then it's hitt on a buffer, with compound that's like anywhere from 3000 to 15000 "grit."
In principle I really like this combination, it is seen that it gains a significant increase in productivity and at the same time maintains a good edge quality compared to the Tormek system. However, I am concerned that the Rock-hard felt will wear out while the CBN wheels maintain their diameter and this means that once that happens, I am forced to adjust the angle of the knife twice, the first time when I sharpen on the wheel from CBN and then when I move on to rock-hard felt. What is the most efficient way you have found to perform the double angle adjustment and how much more time is needed to complete the task?
As the felt wears you adjust the tool support not the jig. It’s not going to wear fast enough that it’s a constant adjustment. There’s is a angle calculator you can use. I think.
@@daniel.rosina When motor is turned on a base plate, wheels are not rotating toward the operator. Knives are still sharpened/deburred edge trailing. Only switch is next to the operator and easier to engage. That's what I've done with my setup...
CBN and deburring wheels, controlled-angle supports and software - yes world-wide, but grinders - for now only in Australia. There are still unknowns that we solve as our trial progresses.
Vadim unexpectedly passed away about a year ago. Unfortunately his family does not have the expertise that he did. There is an update from his family in the comments of the final video he uploaded.
less fluid? what does that mean? the main issue with a hollow bevel for kitchen knives is long term care. usually it ends up getting turned into an ugly flat/convex bevel over time.
We are separating them by intent and purposes. Tormek is too slow for volume sharpening, but is good for precise grinding. CBN wheels on grinder are great for volume sharpening, but at high RPM we cannot grind delicate folding and pocket knives, recurve blades and high-end knives.
This is far too slow and you are overheating the edge of the blade, which reduces cutting life. See the CATRASHARP, from the UK, which sharpens 100 knives per hour, without overheating the cutting edge.
@@alexanderturl sorry i am not a random you tube watcher. I worked for the CUTLERY AND ALLIED TRADES RESEARCH ASSOCIATION (CATRA), I'm the UK for 44 years. They are the world leaders in knife technology, testing and researchers of specialist knife, cutlery and hand tool manufacturing equipment. Hence my experience to comment.
When I first came across this channel several years ago, I was struck by what felt like an oddity to me of someone using a Tormek machine as the centerpiece of a sharpening business. Tormek is capable of giving a decently sharp edge, but it's slow. It looks like this business came to the same conclusion and bypassed the Tormek slowness by using a combination of CBN wheels on the Tormek, paper wheels on a grinder, and speed increaser on the Tormek spindle.
What would you recommend for someone trying to get a good edge on as many kitchen knives as fast as possible?
@@SideOfHustle 1 X 30 bench grinder with varying belts of different grits.
@@dbarbz2089 thy not the Formel t 1. its fast, can't mess up the angel and there is no time wasted for switching belts
very impressive.
Thank you Vadim🔪 looking forward too buy the new wheels.. i have only room for 1 slow grinder. So my thought is combined whit Tormek to finish..
Hey Jan did you find a setup for the "slow" grinder?
Hi Martin
Yes i did
But Unfortunately i didn’t got the wheels from Vadim.
May he rest in peace 🙏
@@janchristensen1738 ja, æret været hans minde. Fin læring om at skærpe knive, jeg har købt hans bog den er ret kompliceret, men forstår man helheden kan den gøre det lettere at vælge det rigtige udstyr :)
Great setup! Thanks for Sharing!!
Wonderful to see! I guess this works best for dull knives that were previously set to 12dps. Would the setup change at all for very dull/damaged knives, or ones needing a new edge angle (for example dropping from 20 to 12 dps)? Thank you.
Brad, to grind at the existing angle, we do 1 pass even with grossly dull knives, and to grind from 15 to 12 degrees, we do 2 passes on the CBN #160. They grind extremely fast. As seen by timing in the video, the grinding itself on the 2 CBN wheels takes only 30 sec, while deburring takes twice the time, near 60 sec. Plus about 1 min takes clamping in the jig and cleaning the blade.
How do you find out what the original angle is of the knife you sharpen? How much was your whole set up? How do you fix chips and broken tips with your set up?
From my research green honing compound, similar to what you use on the rock hard felt wheel is typically a composite of aluminum oxide and chromium oxide at a particle size of .5 micron in wax. Or if specified chromium oxide alone in wax. Assuming the chromium powder you use on the slotted paper wheel is of the same particle size why do you use two different forms? And not just use the bar or powder on both? Love the videos, your replies are much appreciated.
Green Rouge is 68-75% aluminium oxide of particle size 6-10 microns, and under 5% chromium oxide of particle size 0.5-3 microns in wax. We use the Green Rouge on felt to remove the main burr.
On the finishing slotted paper wheel we have pure chromium oxide avg. particle size 0.3 mircron - this wheel removes wire edge from the previous deburring step.
Do these wheels have a chamfer or a round edge? They are exactly what I need for volume sharpening...
I think I just found my future setup!!!
It would be nice if there was variable speed control for a Tormek.
It would, but there are alternatives that in my opinion is even better :) I have a machine that I'm very happy with. I can show you if you want to :) I will send you a message on instagram. The problem is using water when the speed gets higher :)
@@slipespesialisten1178 what machine do you have
@@Mljtyykl I use machines from Cuttermasters in Canada. Can fitt dual CBN wheels or felt if you want that. 50-2000RPM. This is the best solution for wheels if you ask me. The best service from great guys working there. The owner Jeff is as innovative as they come. I think se mine with high pressure water spray to cool even more. I did a test on a really broken Victorinox chefs knife. Removed the damage and made a new edge, razor sharp in 2,5min. Hones on Paperwheels. Definitively my favorite setup 👌
How exactly do you set the angle on what part of the device? Please..
The height of the rest dictates the angle. The CBN wheels are set at the same height and the honing wheels 0.5° higher.
What is your method for thinning knives?
Im still learning ... so the lower the angle, the sharper the knife? however, the edge will not last as long as with say ... 17 degrees, right?
If the edge doesn't collapse a low angle edge has more meat/volume before wearing down to wider, so it usually lasts longer
Amazing. Is it recommended to wear a dust mask for this type of work?
And eye pro! This guy reminds me of that shop teacher missing a few fingers.😂
Hi, could you explain your reasoning behind choosing the #160 and #400 CBN wheels? With so many grit options I am curious why you chose those two.
This comes from years of our experience with meat plants and sharpening for commercial kitchens on CBN wheels. For sharpening boning, butcher and kitchen knives we do not need CBN grit finer than #400. Many of these knives can be done on #400 alone. When the edge is grossly dull or chipped and needs repair, start sharpening on the CBN wheel #160.
anything in the lower range, say 140 to 300 is used for grinding or shaping. it's not used to create a cutting edge, but just to grind away the rough shape. 400 is what they edge to make the edge. anything in that range. factory or production stuff rarely goes any finer than 600 grit. 400 is common. 300 is common. then they just so straight to polishing/buffing to smooth it out and get rid of burrs. thats how most mass produced stuff is done. grinded into shape. sharpened with something like 300 grit. then it's hitt on a buffer, with compound that's like anywhere from 3000 to 15000 "grit."
We want to buy this ?how we can buy this?
In principle I really like this combination, it is seen that it gains a significant increase in productivity and at the same time maintains a good edge quality compared to the Tormek system. However, I am concerned that the Rock-hard felt will wear out while the CBN wheels maintain their diameter and this means that once that happens, I am forced to adjust the angle of the knife twice, the first time when I sharpen on the wheel from CBN and then when I move on to rock-hard felt. What is the most efficient way you have found to perform the double angle adjustment and how much more time is needed to complete the task?
As the felt wears you adjust the tool support not the jig. It’s not going to wear fast enough that it’s a constant adjustment. There’s is a angle calculator you can use. I think.
@@justindavidson6917
100% correct. I'd be surprised if the rest gets adjusted more than once a week, if that.
Nice set up👍 can you take motor off there base plate and turned them around so the switch is facing you? All the best from the US
The rpm is too high to grind on wheel rotating towards you. It is very dangerous doing it on rpm 1450...
@@daniel.rosina When motor is turned on a base plate, wheels are not rotating toward the operator. Knives are still sharpened/deburred edge trailing. Only switch is next to the operator and easier to engage. That's what I've done with my setup...
@@vladimirradic6019 yes, I know 🙂
Nice! Are you going to start selling the whole set up?
CBN and deburring wheels, controlled-angle supports and software - yes world-wide, but grinders - for now only in Australia. There are still unknowns that we solve as our trial progresses.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 is this in production?
Vadim unexpectedly passed away about a year ago. Unfortunately his family does not have the expertise that he did. There is an update from his family in the comments of the final video he uploaded.
@@Eric-jt3tc I was sad to hear that..he was a PIONEER!!! Seriously. RIP to the man.
How did you come to know that the projection was 12°?
Exactly
How
Doesn't a hollow ground edge lead to less fluid cutting compared to flat or convex ground?
less fluid? what does that mean? the main issue with a hollow bevel for kitchen knives is long term care. usually it ends up getting turned into an ugly flat/convex bevel over time.
Machine price
impressive BUT, the jigs were already set, tape on the knife. Still ... 80 !!!! Thats SHARP!!!!
Did you quit using the Tormek?
We are separating them by intent and purposes. Tormek is too slow for volume sharpening, but is good for precise grinding. CBN wheels on grinder are great for volume sharpening, but at high RPM we cannot grind delicate folding and pocket knives, recurve blades and high-end knives.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 I do enjoy your videos. Thanks.
what is your page? so I can look into purchasing this set up
By December we will have all the info on our website, and will add a video here.
knifegrinders.com.au/
а если ищё и по русский ( хотябы субтитры) вообше было бы идеально !
This is far too slow and you are overheating the edge of the blade, which reduces cutting life. See the CATRASHARP, from the UK, which sharpens 100 knives per hour, without overheating the cutting edge.
Considering he’s running a business knife sharpening, I’m going to assume he knows more than a random TH-cam watcher. 😂
@@alexanderturl sorry i am not a random you tube watcher. I worked for the CUTLERY AND ALLIED TRADES RESEARCH ASSOCIATION (CATRA), I'm the UK for 44 years. They are the world leaders in knife technology, testing and researchers of specialist knife, cutlery and hand tool manufacturing equipment. Hence my experience to comment.
bess test is such a gimmick but hey it's a "score" and humans love making things simple.
Who is going to pay refunds or send items that were purchased from your web???? Been waiting for an answer for months!!!!!
Thought I'd heard they are not running as before, or to their full capacity... would be good if someone from KG' could clarify...
@@omnipresent1215 I read that Vadim had passed away recently. This may be the reason you have not had a response from Knife Grinders Australia.