Why do people hate cyclists?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ค. 2022
- I had just done an interview with 7 News when this woman who was waiting around started berating the journalist about how terrible cyclists are, pointing at me and telling me what a disaster cycling infrastructure is.
Of course, she started with "I own a pushbike"...
Why do people like this hate cyclists? Cycling is a clean, quiet, safe, social form of transport that takes cars off the road, reduces congestion, reduces pollution, improves public health and is far cheaper to build and maintain for than cars. It saves tax payers money. What's not to love?
Yet cyclists are often outgrouped - we're the interlopers trying to take over the local streets from the local community. But aren't local residents who want to ride bikes also the local community?
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The concept of "The people riding bikes in my community aren't local" is hilarious! Everyone knows that every bike commute starts 20 miles away and involves demolishing entire communities and urban fabrics in order to provide for 8-lane bike paths. Wait a second...
Haha yes. Almost as if they're projecting 🤔
Brilliant!
Every commute? Not quite. Some are less - some are more. Some of mine have a 50 mile round trip, while most trips (groceries, paying bills, etc.) are less.
That said, the basic idea is both accurate and valid.
It’s such an odd thing. Happens in the UK as well. Somehow, a bad driver is a bad driver but a bad cyclist somehow represents all cyclist, everywhere.
@Simon Lewis - it is all over the UK, every bit! Just try running a cycle infra project or campaigning for any cycle or active travel infrastructure.
Overwhelming majority are arrogant, entitled, and lack common sense. Your obviously one of them.
Here in the UK, I think the hatred is caused by fear. For decades, car users have got used to thinking that the road network exists solely for them and people have been conned into spending huge amounts of money on cars and fuel, thinking that they are important to them, never quite seeing that the car is something that they only need to transport them many miles to a job that they hate, that they only need to fund the car that gets them there. Nobody reacts more violently than someone who is about to have their foolishness pointed out to them and knows it. I was one of these idiots until I lost my driving licence due to a diagnosis of epilepsy. I am now fit and healthy, cycle several hundred of kilometers every month and wouldn't get back in a car if you paid me. Social media seems to be filled with challenges at the moment - walk this many miles, cycle this many miles etc for charity. How about giving up the car for a month for charity? Many people might decide they like it better that way...
Or - one cannot afford the *operating costs* - e.g. fuel, insurance, routine maintenance, etc. - of a conventional vehicle. (In addition to advancing age, infirmity, etc.)
I like your comment for so many reasons - awesome!!
Nah some cyclists are entitled and angry…talking as a cyclist 🤷🏾♂️
I think it's the same impulse that causes people to resent straight-A students, people who work out, the guy who actually does a good job at work, people in happy relationships, etc.
People get resentful when reminded of their own inadequacy. A physically-fit person saving money, saving gas, and enjoying themselves while traveling tends to have that effect on a lot of motorists.
That’s my impression too. It’s like cyclists triggers some insecurity in drivers about the drivers’ own physical fitness level.
I don't think that's true at all. Quite a few people see cycling as an expression of moral superiority and a way to get one over on their peers in the class war. The problem arises because this class/culture war is a media and internet thing. In reality, nobody really values or respects or cares about your existence apart from very close relatives. The car drivers who hate cyclists "being in the way" would run you over like a pigeon if they thought they could get away with it. That's human nature. Throw this culture war into the mix, and now that driver not only doesn't care about you, but might actually be irritated by your smugness. Cyclists often don't see any problem with this. But their worldview is a product of the luxury of being white and suburban, and it isn't how the world works.
So this is what cyclists think to themselves as they get berated and honked at for disobeying traffic laws and causing a danger to themselves and the public. Incredible
I've been riding bicycles for 60 years, since I was a kid. The biggest problem is that people don't see you on the road until it is too late. I have many near misses and two knock downs, both in Toowoomba. The last one was the most serious. The attending policeman informed me he was a cyclist too; and he had just gone back to work after recovering from his injuries. He had been knocked down in front of the police station! I now live in Rockhampton where there are wide roads and there was a culture of bicycle riding to work. Locals are aware of bicycles more than most places. When riding at night in Brisbane in the 90's not only did I have headlamps and tail lights but I used a small Xeon tube emergency flashing light mounted in the lower bracket water bottle attachment. One motorist commented that had it not been for that bright flashing light he wouldn't have picked me out from other vehicles and background lights. This suggests that there is a need for side lighting for bicycles. The following suggestions (1) public education programmes personalising the people riding the bikes. That is your sister, friend, brother, father and etc. Show all that happens to bicyclist who is being hit by a vehicle and the resulting injuries. (2) Advertise that bicyclists pay their taxes and also own vehicles and so are entitled to enjoy their riding on the road. (3) Driving a vehicle on the main road is a privilege, not a right.(4) Humans and their animals have a common law right to travel on the "Queens Highway" which includes bicycle and walking paths.(5) remind bicyclists regularly (again in personal terms) how, when, where and why to obey the road rules and expected behaviours. (6) Develop a electronic device to warn motorists through their vehicle on-board electronic systems, that bicyclists are in the vicinity of the vehicle. As transport prices increase we can expect more people to use the bicycle to travel to work, the shops and etc. These "new" people will need to be "educated" about practical bicycle riding in the Urban environment. Hope this helps. Cheers.
I recently bought a 1000 lumen blinking front light. They see me now. Also a 500 lumen blinking rear light. I haven't had anyone turn in front of me or pull out in front of me since I started using the lights.
Power to the pedal 🙌🙌🐱🏍🐱🏍
Maybe the reflective sidewalls the Dutch use when riding their bikes is an option. They are mandatory there. Got a pair of Schwalbe Marathons and they work a treat.
@@Paul_C Yeah I reckon, I've got Schwalbe Marathons on my Tourer and I'm actually surprised at how those white strips illuminate so well, plus the white patches on the front and rear of my Ortleib Panniers, my front hub powered front and rear lights, my reflective vest, if they can't see me, they are beyond Spec Savers and need to hand in their Driver License
It's not just bicycles. I've seen many times when people are trying to walk across a road, and cars drive too close to them or don't slow down. There's a certain kind of driver that's outraged when anything but a car is on their road.
There's plenty of people that are just plain arseholes no matter what they do and where they are, and are aggressive all the time. This is most apparent when driving, and are triggered by everyone around them.
Those same people are pushy in shops and demanding in restaurants and bars.
They are completely unfun to be around.
@@petergibson7287 i think the term for these degenerates is " unhinged" !!
I once had a lady shout at my for being stationary, on my bike in a mixed-use path.
I was stationary, on my bike, and holding onto a handrail at the side of the path. She was walking towards my bike with her head down in her phone. When she suddenly sees my front wheel pop into the background behind her phone, she jumps back and starts shouting that I nearly ran her over. 🤦♀
I got hit by a car, the motorist yelled at me for running a green light, he thought he should be able to make a right turn on a red light. As soon as people get into a car they turn into instant aholes, with no regard for others.
In Australia, I think the problem is a serious lack of (proactive) education of motorists regarding how cyclists can use the roads and why they do things motorists find objectionable. The road rules for bicycles also doesn't reflect best practices for safety.
This becomes a double-edged sword. Firstly, it is largely left up to the motorist's imagination to explain why, for example, a cyclist is "IN THA MIDDLE OF THA BLOOMIN' ROAD!!1!" and often they decide the cyclist must be acting maliciously. Secondly, it may be discovered that a cyclist who in reality is just trying to stay alive or injury free has broken some archaic law, and then this is used to beat the drum that cyclists are unlawful and dangerous. The law always recommends the safest course of action, right?
Until I can think of something better I'm going to try and have conversations (not screaming matches) with those that have time and will listen. From videos, it seems plenty of people will force their way past a cyclist in a hurry, but when the cyclist dares to complain they've suddenly got all the time in the world to stop and have a "chat". If any stop on me, I'll see if I can convince a few to a have a civilized discussion about it. Yes, 1-on-1 is the slowest possible way to do this, but I firmly believe the best way to change hearts and minds is from the bottom up.
I agree 100% in principle with what you said about other cyclists breaking rules should only apply to them. Unfortunately, that's not how some knuckle-draggers think so I'm _that guy_ who does a "wtf?" gesture when other cyclists go through a red light. Maybe you might convince me to keep my comments to myself if I catch up to them.
There's an excellent book entitled "Roads Were Not Built for Cars" by Carlton Reid. He follows the concept of roads back to animal trails to Roman roads to dirt paths for horses and wagons. Railroads were invented and roads all but disappeared from lack of maintenance. Bicycles were invented and hailed as a miracle because you could go where you wanted, when you wanted and were a healthy thing mostly because they took horses off roads whose waste made things unsanitary. The first bicyclists were well to do and influenced communities to build better (paved) roads. As the techniques for building bikes improved bikes became more affordable to the middle classes. About this same time early automobiles were hitting the roads (often invented by bicyclists), and the well to do wanted to dissociate themselves from the middle class and so took to expensive motorized vehicles, and shunned bicycles as being low class. That's when bicyclists started to get pushed off the roads into the gutters. This war continues today.
It also has to do with speed. Humans are hell bent for leather to go as fast as they possibly can. This includes early bicyclists ("Scorchers") who would zoom by pedestrians giving them quiet a scare. The issue for car drivers is "you're slowing me down and it's my right to drive as fast as I possibly can." Nowhere is there a law that supports that. Speed limits are placed on nearly all roads. Speed limits are better implied by road design than a street sign, but that's a whole other topic.
If cars are dangerous to bicyclists (who have as much right to the road as anyone) then it is the cars who must either slow down or get off the road. Turnabout is fair play. Every form of transportation has the right to safe passage.
Turnabout you say.You need to get rid of all the modern convenient things in your life. That ain`t going to happen either. Think of supply chains around the world with no motorized machinery. You and I and all that enjoy the sport of bicycles must accept the things that are. Rails to trails and non motorized pathways are our safe haven. The streets are dangerous and one must accept this. But you knew all of this didn`t you. I ride bikes everyday. Do I cuss the car drivers. YEA!
@@alank808 Agreed. I have to say the community where I live is pretty respectful of bicycle riders--or at least respectful of me. It's a rare thing for someone not to give me space or to pass by me too closely. I'm 71 years old, I don't wear spandex cycling clothes, and I ride an ebike with fat tires. I have people shout out at me "I like your bike!" or stop and ask me about my ebike nearly every time I go out--especially women for some reason. I wonder if the novelty creates a different mindset. The only grief I've ever gotten out of anybody was from spandex wearing, push-bicyclists criticizing me for riding an ebike. Some get quite angry and right in my face.
Riding a bicycle is not sport to me, @alan k, it is my preferred and primary mode of transport.
Great video that asks an important question. When I became aware of the hatred for cyclist 10 or 15 years ago I was really surprised and just didn't get it. I then found that there was a parallel between my experience and what people were saying about racism, sexism, homophobia etc. As a straight white middle aged man I have never directly experienced these things or felt the injustice. But as a hated cyclist I found myself in a group (of someone else's making) that was being treated by some people as inferior, a problem, and unwelcome.
So perhaps we can understand this hatred by seeing how it works in exactly the same way as racism, sexism and so on. It's an othering, a fear of the unfamiliar, a fear that something will be taken away etc etc.
Here in the UK the government has recently started a 'Travel like you know them' campaign. Vulnerable road users are shown with some snippet of who they are (eg 'Gary dad-dances like nobody's watching') and the tag line is 'Travel like you know them.' For me this addresses the problem head on.
Very good point, it's human behaviour after all.
It's not just about the mindset though, the Uk is somewhat focused on cycling compared to america, you can't keep people from bumping into each other if you don't give them their dedicated spaces. Bikes need infrastructure to go along the mindset, like cars need roads.
Shared roads will -never work safely- always be less safe and efficient and for more courageous people than bike lanes, no matter the mindset. The road needs speed and protective gear, the only trivial things casual bikes can't offer (aside from rain protection maybe :).
Edit: Planning should always try to separate first and mix only when unavoidable (intersections, narrow streets).
If that's not proof enough, go one step further and ask yourself why cars don't share the road with pedestrians and the same reasons apply, same goes for pedestrians and bikes to some extent.
@@wonjez3982 You are right that it is not just about the mindset, a lot can be done to the infrastructure to improve things. However, shared roads are inevitable and this is where the mindset question comes in. I believe that a lot of motorists have the view that the road is for them and that cyclists are a nuisance and should fit in around them. The 'road tax' argument that often comes up betrays this opinion.
On your last point, where I live in rural Wales there are plenty of roads without pavements and the roads are there for pedestrians as much as they are for cars. They are also used by tractors, cyclists and sheep! It works fine from a motorists point of view as long as you have the right mindset.
@@Zaranathax Thanks for your answer :)
While sidestreets may not be suitable for bike lanes, i'd guess installing bike lanes on main roads (the cars domicile), most of the anger potential is eliminated, while it also visualizes the amount of space each vehicle is allowed. Picture a 3 lane road vs a 2 lane street with a bike lane. It's a fixed definition of how much space each mode gets. This then carries into the rest of the city/mentality. Have a look a look at Amsterdam here th-cam.com/video/G4qgzsaNN7s/w-d-xo.html about it.
I'm also using shared roads all week around here in Berlin, it's an ok compromise, but we shouldn't be making compromises before we tried to solve the issue from the ground up (esp in new designs).
Good night from Berlin!
I agree with you. I have cycled across the U.S. three times. The first time in 1984, people that I encountered were amazed by my travels, welcoming, friendly, and curious. Today with more cyclists using their roads, Drivers see us as encroaching on their space, and their territory. Cyclists are just another irksome thing in their life to deal with at a time when life is stressful and full of aggression from all sides. I rode across again in 2016 and 2017 as an old white retired business owner, and was treated differently on the road, towns, and cafes. Truth, drivers yelled at me, even had two edge their car at me to force me off the road. It will never change in the U.S. until gas prices are not price supported by the government, and police start to work traffic patrols again.
@@Mike-vd2qt Awesome observation, makes sense. I'm looking forward to traveling by bike myself, i'm confident and used to the roads already. If anything peoples anger makes me want to change it even more, make it better for everyone ;)
There is no convincing someone clearly suffering from a psychological condition. No amount of logic will make them budge. You can only hope that the people making the decisions recognise nutbag when they see it. Great videos. Keep up the good work Chris.
UK cyclist: Things are quite bad here. The anti-cyclist drivers seem to be getting angrier by the month.
Jeremy Clarkson has a lot to answer for. Year after year of Top Gear petrol-head fare, and the only time cyclists were ever mentioned was to disparage them.
@@myword1000Clarkson is a moron on so many levels….
My pet theory is it it’s Murdoch - the US, the UK and Australia are the worst for cycling, and they’re all infested with Murdoch tabloids who love stoking culture wars for profit. Cycling has been a reliable source of outrage/money for years….
As someone who is a cyclist in Brisbane for fitness and commuting my cycling friends and I appreciate your advocacy Chris. Keep up the good work.
Shame about the green bridges near Toowong and St Lucia, I feel the floods are a scapegoat. Travelling through Europe now and seeing cities designed around people and not cars is incredible.
Thanks James! I agree, cancelling the bridges and north Brisbane Bikeway is purely political. The floods are a convenient excuse.
Check out the youtube channel - th-cam.com/users/NotJustBikes
Drivers live a life of cognitive dissonance. They know what they're doing is harmful in so many ways, but they manage to suppress those thoughts and go about their motoring lives without thinking about it. Until they see us. We're like triggers. The very sight of a cyclist threatens their comfortable world, so they lash out.
Kinda like alcoholics
In The Netherlands there are two words for cyclist, fietser (casual rider) and wielrenner (cycling sport fanatic). I honestly think wielrenners are the most hated group of people in the country, even more so than homeless drug addicts, whereas being a fietser is the most ordinary thing in the world. In less developed cycling nations, the only cyclists the general population sees are the most hardcore speed demon type douchebags, because only they will hop on their bikes despite horribly unsafe infrastructure and driving conditions.
The only thing that will help acceptance of cyclists is to get as many people on a bike, not just as a novelty but as a serious mode of transport, and let the fietser majority drown out the god awful noise of the Tour De France lookalike contest losers.
I used to get into regular conversations about cycling at work with my colleagues and it always went in the same circles every time. I had one colleague who would regularly bring up their grievances with bicycles and I'd always have a good answer that explained it well, then they tried to play it off as a joke saying something like "I don't want reasonable answers, I want to be angry" and this would happen about once a month.
Usually when that happens I start saying that I should drive a tractor instead.
Separate infrastructure for bikes encourages families and kids that it is safe to bike. It changes your society's priorities positively. It needs to be advanced progressively and strategically.
The advantage that cycling advocates have is that their messaging is totally positive. The disadvantage for critics is that their messaging is entirely negative. Leverage this powerful advantage and the difference will be immediately apparent to politicians. Show them how the critics' arguments will vapourize when cars and bikes are separated.
That's an incredible bikeway, by the way!!
Yeah this is a spectacular bikeway. Of course, it just dumps you on a street without infrastructure, but they've started planning to do that connection next.
I mean, I was telling them they should have planned it while the riverwalk was being built and then get straight on to the next stage, but what do I know?
The inadequate infrastructure creates conflicts between cyclists and motorists, so that's one cause. There's also mythology about traffic flows and what's best for eliminating gridlock, and cycling infrastructure is wrongly perceived as exasperating the problem when the opposite is true.
I think a lot of people dont like the idea that we can travel from A to B for free.
Exactly. It's all about jealousy.
@Shep Raynham and bikes aren't free either!
Here in Florida you have 3 kind of drivers:
The ones that don't see you until they are within touching distance (most of them care about cyclists but its pointless to care if you cant see them)
The ones that try to be very careful with cyclists and pedestrians
And the ones that passionately hate cyclists (they will drive out of their way to try to get closer to you, throw stuff at you, yell at you, etc)
I will say they are evenly distributed 1/3 on each class
Driving Gives tremendous power *AND* an aspect of shielding from “consequences” - both by the protection provided by “heavy metal” and the partial anonymity of a measure of concealment.
Great point. Now add into that thought our ability to be "that guy" in this internet, social media age.
This. And to add to it, I think seeing a person on a bike reminds drivers that the other users of the road are actual people and not machines. This reminder scares them and the primative response is "Well they have no right to be here."
Here in the UK one of the most common rant they dont pay road tax and in fact it was abolished in the 1930,s
Upkeep of the roads is payed through general taxation.
Drivers seem to forget everything they learned in driving school right after they get their licence. The huge majorityof road fatalities and injuries are caused by motorists.
My question is why is bad driving an acceptable norm?
Exactly. At least in my, country whoever doesn't exceed the speed limit at least a little bit is seen as some kind of a weirdo. On the other hand tho as soon as a cyclist breaks a rule (doesn't matter if it is for his own safety) it's immediately the bad cyclists. Funny enough we are called cyklozmrdi, which means something like cycloassholes.
Yeah... like 99.999% of accidents & 100% of the fatalities are caused by motorists. Yet some how cyclists are the bane of society.
i resonate with this deeply. i cycle to work in a small town and everyone knows me by my bike (white mountain bike with red grips, green pedals) and i feel pressured to always be perfect with how i ride else I'd get a bad rep. On the flipside, the anonymity of being in a car means people can get away with shitty driving without any repercussions from a social perspective.
Materialist "Me" culture
I think if someone gets points on their driving licence, they should have to ride a 1000 miles (total) on a push-bike & if some one objects to a cycle path proposal, they should also have to ride the roads that are beside the proposed route & do this many times, at different times of days & in varied weather's, with a volunteer cyclist whom would document/video the objectors experience.
Finally, make the councillors ride these routes (many times), agan with volunteer documenters
A complaint is one thing, a rant is a bad day, a continuous unfounded campaign of hostility is a mental problem
I ride my bike for pleasure after work, would love to ride my bike to and from work, but it's deadly on the road to work. I also drive a car and find myself come across many cyclists while driving. It doesn't bother me to slow down and wait to make sure the rider is safe. It does however frustrate my passenger which I find hilarious, because he's not driving and already lost patience. I think the problem is the mentality in people who have forgot to make safety a priority while on the road. We have a brake pedal for a reason. It's your responsibility as a driver to make sure other people and yourself are safe. People just need to calm down and consider others. A cyclist is still someone's brother or sister, mother, father, son or daughter. I want them to stay alive.
Well said. Funnily enough, I often hear people in discussions about cyclist and pedestrian safety say "it's your responsibility to stay safe, not mine". It's a terrible attitude. We all have responsibility for our and others safety, and when we're behind the wheel that's even more important because the harm we can cause is so much larger.
Thanks for watching.
Man, I had that from an off duty cop one day. Triggered, angry for no reason. Really intimidating.
Eish, that's way worse than some random old lady on the street.
I often break “road rules” as a cyclist, but only if A) its safe to do so and B) its convenient
I’m not waiting a whole set of traffic lights when I’m being protected by the traffic anyway.
This could just be fixed with Better/Smarter Lights at intersection and crosswalks.
The Netherlands really is Miles ahead of our dumb asses
Yeah I get what you mean. Unfortunately you get the response of "well I still have to obey the light in my car even if I can see it's perfectly fine to go".
Similar with stop signs - honestly it is way better for everyone if I can keep rolling and go through. If I come to a complete stop and have to start again I'm way slower to get going - and that's more of an inconvenience to the driver(s) behind me, AND is dangerous for me since they are a risk of rear ending me. Hell, drivers hardly ever come to a complete stop, especially when turning left.
The false equivalence thing is rife in these discussions - the idea that a person on a bike creates a miniscule fraction of the risk of a person in a car doing the same thing doesn't seem to twig to a lot of people. "Rules is rules" etc.
@@ChrisCoxCycling facts.
They also don’t understand why they need to pay registration etc and cyclists do not
A) Damage to the roads
B) Pollution
C) Potential damage output
Not just bikes (channel) is wise beyond his years.
City planning is so important, and these car centric societies are the reason why states are Broke AF.
I’m just glad this isn’t America, coz those guys are Really Stupid,
Part reason for hostility encountered by bike users is that car drivers mostly do not accept that bicycle riders have the same rights to the road as they have. Its called the "Public Highway", for a reason, everyone has the same right of access, there are no preferential users of the highway but some car drivers believe they have more rights when it comes to road use.
I think that belief of a ‘right’ to the road by motorists is because they pay to use it. Hence it creates a sense of ‘exclusive ownership’ that freeloading cyclists are accessing inappropriately. Ironically, from a historical perspective, it’s motorists who are the latecomers to the party and so are barging in on cyclists & other road users who were there ‘first’.
The people that have an overtly critical view of cyclists aren't cyclists themselves. They don't appreciate the benefits of cycling because those benefits are personally irrelevant to them. I think if a greater proportion of the population participated in cycling reguularly, then there would be a greater acceptance and tolerance of cyclists/people on bikes. How you'd get that objectionable woman on a bike once, let alone regularly though, well I don't know.
I don't believe that changing the vernacular of "cyclists" to people on bikes is likely to see a significant change in peoples' views. Thinking about calling "motorists" vs "people driving cars" doesn't change my view of "motorists", though anything is worth a try - it can't do any harm and just a small shift in sentiment would be great.
Keep up the good work Chris, your videos show insight and provoke thought and discussion.
Cheers. I tend to agree. I don't think giving in to the negative association of the word "cyclist" helps. In a way I think we need to take the word back as a term to use proudly.
I think there are two reasons that drivers hate cyclists. First is that they think they have to pass the cyclist RIGHT NOW. Often that is dangerous. They resent the cyclists for putting them in a difficult or impossible situation. They don't understand that they can just chill out for a little while behind the cyclist and wait for a safe opportunity to pass. The solution here is to educate drivers that they do have that option to hang back behind the cyclist, and generally they will only lose a few seconds out of their trip, which is not a big deal.
The other reason drivers hate cyclists is that they (the haters) feel insecure, so they get a momentary feeling of relief from their anxiety if they can bully someone who they perceive to be less powerful than them. It's the same reason that many cyclists bully pedestrians. Everyone is punching down. That is a harder problem to fix.
I've never heard of a person riding a bicycle bullying a person that isn't riding a bicycle.
How do I deal with it?
I ride more miles on the paths, watch my body fat continue to drop and FTP continue to rise, while all the cagers get fatter and more miserable.
Everyone knows cycling is healther for both themselves and society in general. But you can't feed medicine to those who wish not to be cured.
I am also confused by people trying to stop bikeways, because pedestrians use them all the time out here in the States--definitely safer than car roads for pedestrians for sure.
People moan about cyclists using the roads because they slow cars down, but they don't want them riding on the pavement either because of the risk to pedestrians, but then they object to cycle lanes being installed as well.
I wish they would just decide to what exactly they are objecting.
Cycling. They object to cycling. 😆
OMG I totally have this same frustration just talking to members in my own family - a lot I put down to lack of education, not understanding that it is not just fast people on bikes we are talking about, it is about my boys riding safe, me riding for fun, work and going to the shops, and others just having the option to ride - is it that people need to think less about themselves more about the community. (Fear of taking something away from them, rather than providing the opportunity to ride or WALK gives them so much more back)
I had an amazing chat recently with a developer and for him it was that he 'just didn't know' - and knowing more means he could position/deliver more for riding/walking from the beginning.
getting language right (one of your readers has it - riding/walking are congestion reduction projects and that is what they should possibly be 'sold' more as, with road widening etc as projects that don't move us forward with the environment/climate but backwards.
I was recently listening to a podcast by another TH-camr not just bikes, and he brought up an interesting theory. That people hate cyclists because of survivor bias. When people get into an accident with cyclists they might be hurt, sometimes even seriously, but they survive to tell the tale and advocate against bikes and it's associated infrastructure. Where as people that get hit by cars don't survive to tell the tale, and this cannot advocate for alternative transit. Might be an interesting part of the hate cyclists get!
That's a dark thought, but it makes sense. I do often hear people say they are "scared" or "worried" when they see cyclists on the road. That it usually comes up when I'm talking about the possibility of providing safer cycling infrastructure, slower streets or whatever else always seems odd to me. By providing separation, delineation and/or slower speed environment, that should reduce that "worry" as a driver significantly.
But it seems many people with this train of thought just want to see bicycles banned, then they don't have to worry at all.
Hi Chris,
I enjoy your videos, keep up the great work.
I think you hit the nail on the head, with the term 'Cyclist' as opposed to people riding bikes. Suddenly it's easy for an ignorant person to not think of us as everyday people from within the community. So maybe an active campaign showing the human face of people riding bikes.
Maybe economics may end up turning the tide in the bike riders favour. That might be the plus side of the increasing fuel prices.
Thanks Peter. Yeah I definitely think the ever rising cost of fuel, and the still exorbitant cost of electric cars will mean people will start thinking about how to save some dollars soon. E-scooters and e-bikes are also getting very popular, and they need the same infrastructure analog bikes do.
I definitely try and portray a more human side of cycling to try and shift the perception that it's all sports cyclists. I mean, I am no sports cyclist ;-) I don't think surrendering the word is the best thing to do, but definitely having a more diverse representation of "cyclists" is vital.
Reasons why motorists don’t like cyclists: they see us as unpredictable and as “being in their way”, which makes them anxious and/or angry. They know they willl win a collision with a bike, so they don't watch for bike riders the same way they watch for other cars, and if they do see you they may have trouble gauging your speed so they may come too close to you in certain circumstances (like trying to beat a cyclist to the next intersection and then turning in front of the cyclist without looking to see where they are). This will only get worse as more people get ebikes, which are more capable of keeping up with traffic and so sometimes travel at speeds motorists don’t expect. I’m in my 70’s and have ridden bikes all my life. My motto is “Stay on your own side of the road, go slow around pedestrians and smile at everyone who makes eye contact with you.” So far it’s worked for me.
Boy are drivers in for a shock once electric scooters take off.
Great Topic and I concur 100000%! It's crazy in my Mississippi Area, No bike lanes and cars made cause they have to share the road with bikes! They passed an 8ft passing a law to safely share the roadways with bikes. They need to educate motorists on the rights of bicyclists and Pedestrians. daily
I like the German language in this case,
Cyclist = Fahrradfahrer = bicycle driver
Driver = Autofahrer = car driver
It's more objective
The "triggering" is subconscious fear and anxiety. It's the same reason people have road rage so quickly. You can go from 0 to 10 on the rage scale because your subconscious mind sees and understands the dangers all around while driving. When people see a person on a bicycle they see it as a dangerous hurdle to pass. The bicycle subconsciously put them in danger because they have to maneuver around it. Hopefully more and more people realize that separated divided bike lanes would lower this anxiety for both cyclist and motor driver.
These are the sort of people that have trolley rage in a supermarket. Coupled with the media who fan the flames.
Great video. Subscribed. I commute about 100 miles per week in Denver so I get a lot of interaction with other road and trail users. Honestly the streets haven’t been that bad. A few close calls, never been hit. A few people yelling at me. Though the stakes are so high on the road. If I’m having one close call per month, it probably means one accident per year or two. At 48, and having had some horrible injuries from prior crashes (not with cars), I can’t say I like those odds. So that pushes me to the bike trail, which is incredibly direct for most of my commute (typically average 19-20 mph on the inbound leg, stops included). The trails have their own challenges, probably too many to list. I ride with bells and use them religiously. I think bell use would really improve trail goodwill. Probably only 5% of riders here use them. And few of those without bells call out their passes. Of course when 90% of pedestrians wear headphones, it really mutes the effectiveness of bells (literally and figuratively). I have two recent videos on my channel about near misses with joggers wearing headphones who veer into my path. A funny aside: I find myself getting really triggered by all the “e-shit” on the trails these days. 800 watt electric mopeds doing 30 mph…gimme a break. And I’m not sure those guys have a single bell between them! Electric hoverboards,scooters, skateboards, etc, etc. most lack brakes. It is ridiculous and something’s gotta give. But the more interesting issue is my own potential hypocrisy on the “e” issue. 😀. In other words, if I answer the question of “why do I hate e-shit?” I might be able to answer “why do people hate cyclists?”
If you live in Denver county you qualify for at least $400 rebate for a new e-bike. I got a voucher for $1200 for a new e-bike, which I plan on getting sometime this week.
Inconsiderate people are going to be inconsiderate regardless of how many wheels they ride on. The aggressive e-bikers are almost certainly the aggressive drivers (those who can drive a car anyway) so at the end of the day having those aggressive drivers on a bike rather than in a car is still an improvement. E-bikes are also making "cycling" a lot more popular and accessible to more people who might otherwise be stuck driving or on the bus. The more people biking, the better odds of functional bicycle infrastructure in the city.
But yeah, if it gets bad enough with aggressive e-bikers we may end up with rules like those in locations in Europe where I believe e-bikes are limited to class 1 (pedal assist only and speed limited)
@@spiderpickle3255 Interesting and thought-provoking post for sure. I think the vouchers certainly explain the explosion of e-bikes on the trail. And you bring up a very important chicken-and-egg point - do we "build it (cycle infrastructure) and they will come"? or do we first get a lot of cyclists on the roads/trails, then justify improving the cycle infrastructure because of the increase in use? Could be a political necessity do take the second path.
However, I still have a big problem with class 3 (or unrestricted) e-bikes on the paths. Class 3 is theoretically limited to 28 mph. However, I am sure that I've seen people riding at 35 mph or more on the trail. Not cool. These things are, for all intents and purposes, electric mopeds. They have the same weight/speed physics as a gas-powered moped (some are faster!). So why aren't gas-powered mopeds allowed on trails? Is this about public safety, or is this about the liberal optics of electric (God's work) vs gasoline (Orange man bad) powered vehicles? If you can ride 35+ mph, then you can comfortably ride in any urban street with the flow of traffic...unless they are on the trails to avoid stoplights???
The Highline Canal already prohibits e-bikes. I give it another 6 months before they start cracking down on the class 3+ e-bikes.
Even sketchier are the wide assortment of electric skateboards, hoverboards. I've seen a guy who's going well over 30 mph on the trail on an electric hoverboard. He's wearing full downhill MTB gear. But what happens to a pedestrian/dog/rider when he overcooks a turn or some poor sap happens to be in the way?
I'm a student at Edinburgh and on the side work for deliveroo, so obviously end up cycling a lot. I still do get comments/heckles from time to time but I know it could be a lot worse, one of my biggest problems still is about infrastructure, sure there is a decent amount in Edi but I often find that it doesn't flow well and I'd have to get off my bike and cross at a pedestrian crossing. Side note in the UK I've heard loads of things about making registrations for bicycles manditory which seems so stupid to me, don't know if you've done a vid about this yet?
Hi Matthew,
I have heard about this latest push for registration plates in the UK. Dumb. It's an issue that doesn't go away here in Australia either. Nearly every social media or news article about cycling some mouth breather chimes in with "cyclists should have to pay rego". Our state government looked at the issue as part of an inquiry into cycling issues in 2013 and found that it would have minimal benefit for safety, and huge cost to the taxpayer in administration and enforcement, and would have the negative impact of deterring people from cycling when it's what we need to reduce traffic congestion, road toll and ill health caused from driving.
Hopefully despite the brain fart from Shapps, the UK government will come to a similar conclusion.
Honestly I think that everyone who applies to get a driver's license should first be forced to ride a bicycle for transportation and be tested on properly riding one in traffic before they be given even a chance at getting a learner's permit to drive a 2000 pound plus vehicle. They have no idea what the experience of a cyclist is like and utterly dehumanize them.
EDIT: I'm speaking with the experience of cycling in Los Angeles for 9 months and having multiple near misses and one hit with cars that put my cycling on hold. Many people only see themselves as human and have no desire to empathize with those they don't explicitly identify with.
Obviously making everybody ride a bike to get a licence wouldn't work, but there does need to be better education for how other road users experience the road.
Out grouping definitely dehumanises people. A study came out a few years ago that found a percentage of drivers "don't see cyclists as entirely human".
@@ChrisCoxCycling okay so as a part of getting your driver's license you have to go thought "simulations" of what it's like to be a cyclist in traffic. It's still no replacement for proper bike infrastructure though.
That said I also think that cars above compact sedan classes should require additional endorsements, too many people drive cars bigger than their ability to handle them.
I was a driving instructor in LA for a year when I was in college, and I mostly agree with this idea. The problem is not everyone knows how to ride a bike, and even if they do, they need some bike handling skills to comfortably and competently ride on the road… we’d basically need to set up a two tiered system to get a license, and that will never happen.
Halfway kidding here, but at the least there should be a probationary license period where you can't drive anything larger than 1.5L with manual transmission and air cooling. Still dangerous but you have to be more mindful than with automatic transmission and a large engine.
Edit: but mainly we need to redesign our roads with the safety of squishy users, rather than motor vehicle LOS, as the priority
Everyone who wants to ride a bicycle on a public road should first be forced to take a cycling proficiency test with the emphasis on situational awareness and personal safety.
What brand/model bicycle is yours in video
Kalkhoff Voyager HS. Great bike.
As a pedestrian I hated cyclists on the footpath as I feared being hurt by them. Now as a cyclists I take great care when riding on the footpath because I can recall how I felt. I think it is easy for a cyclist to underestimate how much pedestrians fear them.
I guess drivers are scared of cyclists because they fear being held up by them. I must confess I have been very pleasantly surprised by driver behaviour where I live in Melbourne as drivers almost always give way to me.
I do however take your point about the squeaky wheel and perhaps I should become more vocal in my desire for better bike infrastructure in my local area.
In my country cyclists are not allowed on a footpath; when pedestrains and cyclists are merged, it’s no longer a footpath. Then both are ‘equal’. What I notice a lot is that pedestrains are unaware whats behind them, or (pe) talking to each other, or having headphones on. I always ring the bell. Mostly it helps, people turn around and step aside or whatever. Sometimes people stay unaware and then are scared heavily when i am close or have to brake heavily.
It’s the unawareness whats makes them fear cyclists (and other road users). Slow(er) cyclists have the same fear. If you are in traffic, you have to stay awake and be aware what’s around you. Don’t have headphones on, walk in your own world like if no one is there and then be scared by a (warning) bell sound.
@@Stevenafoe Not every cyclist rings a bell or announces a pass. Not every cyclist respects a pedestrian/runner's right to the entire lane. Not every cyclist gives pedestrians/runners the same consideration on the trail that they expect cars to give them on the road. I've been clipped by cyclists passing too close on a number of occasions. I've also had to run down the center line of the trail to avoid cyclists that ride abreast in both lanes and refuse to move over. Giving respect goes a long way to earning respect.
@@lbbotpn5429 ‘not every’ goes all ways, there are always people not respecting others: Cyclists, car drivers , taxi drivers, vans, trucks and pedestrians. I am currently using a dashcam on the bike to show the point i made (people not being aware of other traffic). The catch of today (for category pedestrians/joggers) is a woman walking the dogs, with 2 dogs on a leach, but abroad and blocking the cycle path completely. 2x females walking and talking (loudly) in their phones on the cyclepath.. Few times local employees going for a walk, but also abroad and blocking the cycle path. Nothing my bell can’t solve ofcourse, but like you said: giving respect (to other road users) goes a long way. Besides the pedestrians i also had 2x vans blocking (one cut me and another cyclist), one truck blocking the whole path, 2x teens with their phones one the bike etc. I counted 10 instances in total, and i mainly don’t go into towns and villages btw. And this was only 1 ride…
The next point i would make is before anyone points to other road users, are they sure they are following the rules corrctly and respecting others themselves? Or is it ‘i just parked there, was only a minute’ etc?
I enjoyed your vid.
I find most drivers in Vancouver to be courteous and give me lots of room on the road when they pass. I constantly waive my thanks to drivers who wait at intersections or driveways, etc., for me to pass by safely. I have been cut-off by the odd driver who, once they realized what they did, apologized profusely. But I have had a few other encounters: the driver who (on 2 occasions in different parts of the city) decided to drive beside me and yell at me for some unknown reason, the driver who intentionally hit me with his car (see "cycl'n vancouver" Ride 66 if you want to see that up close), and a few other close calls.
Being an avid cyclist has actually made me a more aware driver. I was driving out shopping a few weeks back and I past a bike rider in the right lane. I was going to make a right turn so I put on my signal and then waited for the cyclist to pass me. He seemed so shocked that, as he past by, he turned and looked at me and gave me a big wave. A few years earlier, I doubt I would have thought about him before making that turn.
For me, the great danger is the pedestrian. In Vancouver, pedestrians pay zero attention to their surroundings, they constantly step off side-walks into bike lanes (and roadways) without looking, etc. I had one encounter on July 1, 2022 when I came around a corner into the blinding sun. I couldn't see for several seconds until I made right turn and found a skate boarder heading directly at me in my lane. How I missed him I have no idea, and he screamed away as if I were in the wrong.
I feel your pain and have no answer for you but enjoy your riding.
Cheers mate. Great comment.
I don't know the answer, but if you look at countries, cities, places where this is not the case they tend to be so much nicer places to spend time. I suspect attitudes will only really change by making cycling more safely available to families and the number one choice for city transport.
Great video/content so I subscribed.
Cheers! It's a bit of a catch 22 huh? To change attitudes we need better infrastructure so more people cycle. But to get more infrastructure we need public support, from a public who has a bad attitude towards cyclists.
We cyclists have to maneuver around road obstacles, discontinuous lane changes, and other situations not apparent to drivers. Yet they don't hesitate to honk at us at the slightest incovenience for them. All it takes is a slight twitch of their fingers or foot.
Same here in UK & Ireland, some drivers think that the world revolves around the motor car.
That's all from the oil industry promoting their fuels for the last 100 years. Promoting cars & making people believe that the car is essential & desirable.
Agree with everything you said. Also, I recently travelled to Brisbane one week before the Noosa Classic and wow Brisbane river ride was a great experience. 👍
We need to get regular people, politicians and even people who hate 'cyclists' on bikes, even for a single on off ride.
If nothing else works, just tell people about the absolute fuck ton of money cycling saves
Anger usually comes from fear. I think the haters are fearing that the cyclists are getting something that they aren't getting - special treatment, a faster trip to where they are going... How dare they slow me down! How dare they use my taxes for infrastructure that I'll never use! Does that lead to a solution? I don't know. When people abuse me when I'm riding I always smile and wave, pretending that they are a friend who has called out to me! I think it helps to defuse the situation. :)
Driving in a city sucks and is very stressful.
I agree. I don't think that's a reason to hate people on bikes though?
@@ChrisCoxCycling i meant that it sucks for cyclist anyway ;)
I want to make the joke, but I like cycling and your channel, so I won't, haha! 😂 It is quite the interesting dilemma; on one hand, you need everyone who wants to bike (but won't because it feels too unsafe) to start biking, but as long as most people who want to bike feel it is too risky (ie lack of infastructure forcing riding in the street with heavier, higher-powered machines), most of those people likely won't. Even a matter of convenience... this varies from person to person, although in my case, if there's a lot of snow on the ground that's gone unplowed, it becomes vastly more inconvenient. Definitely many small parts with which to deal. Keep up the biking videos!
UK comment here …Car driver ,Van driver ( self employed Builder) and more importantly I ride a race cycle three times a week for fitness .The hatred stems from the packs of weekend club cyclists riding three abreast yapping but in packs of ten ( example ) I would think this is the main “ Historic “ issue here 🚴🇬🇧🤷♂️
Odd that they aren't angered by the packs of cars that clog city streets though.
The police advise cyclists to ride 2 or 3 abreast for safety. You’re meant to give cyclists the same room as you would a car so it should make no difference to you. It also makes them quicker to pass as in a long line, you’d need to be on the wrong side of the road for longer.
Cyclists misbehave on shared paths and pass pedestrians too close? Perhaps more dedicated infrastructure is needed in that area! I was told off for being on a avement after a polite pass, the woman tried to obstruct me and deand I get on the busy road with the cars because it is rude to cycle amoungst pedestrians. But then if I'm on the road nobody bothers warning me in any way at all before they whizz past! Thing is that if I were going all out and I colided with a pedestrian, I'd injure them, that same pedestrian was getting in a car, if her car strikes me when she passes, well that would be way worse! They get furious if they think you are slightly too close to them while they walk, but they act confused when you get upset at the quality of their overtakes in the car!
Great stuff mate! Keep it up 👌
It's a tricky issue to tackle certainly but I feel the solution is absolutely education. Cyclists understand that more cycling infrastructure is a win-win for everyone, the opposition just don't understand the benefits (and that's OK). If we threw statistics and numbers front page of each proposal that would go a long way towards understanding. Instead of headlining it as a '$400m green bridge' call it a '$400m congestion reduction infrastructure' or '$400m to save you 8 minutes from X to Y'. Think how they market the tunnels around Brisbane, less 'grandeur' and more 'how does this benefit me, the motorist?'.
It's a really interesting one. Apparently studies into effective communication and community engagement suggests that facts and figures don't have too much effect in changing firmly held beliefs, which is usually the situation we're facing. Focussing on values and emotions, positively, is usually more effective. That said, I think Council in particular does a really really bad job in that they highlight the negative statistics. For example, proposing a new bikeway, they'll put in the dot points of the proposal "Removal of 70 on street carparks". Like gee, thanks guys, way to sell it...
I think part of the problem is within bureaucracies like Brisbane City Council there is actually an opposition to actually progressing active transport. Whether it's ideological, or whether it's just old school traffic engineers who are seeing the end of the road for their careers and are just trying desperately to hang on to the failed status quo of building MOAR ROADS to bust (make worse) congestion, I don't know. But media don't have to try very hard to find negatives to latch on to, when the proponents of the projects put them in convenient dot points right there on the page...
Though i can appreciate the logic. I hate the need to spin things.
Road trauma costs Australia $27 billion a year! And that doesn't even factor in the pain, suffering and loss of life.
I think trying to sugar coat it as a congestion reduction spend is disingenuous to the real saving to society by having less cars on the roads. It's not about travel time. And shouldn't be. If drivers really cared about getting somewhere quicker a lot would be better off on public transport...or cycling!
After all...this is in a time where governments have literally removed our rights as humans (not drivers) because 'every life matters'.
I genuinely don't give a rats arse if new infrastructure built adds more time to drivers if it saves lives. People already spend 2 hours in cars on freeways each day instead of taking a train that would get them there 25-35% quicker. They've done it to themselves by not giving respect prior. Much like how we now have to slow down to 40kkmh when passing an emergency vehicle. It's only come about because idiots stopped respecting them like we used to when you'd give a lane buffer and slow down a little too.
Cause and effect. And like most laws...it's the few bad apples that ruin it for everyone. So instead of them blaming cyclists then need to be told that it's their own kind that have caused the need for dedicated infrastructure that will now encroach on their precious car centric roads.
Drivers are entitled prats for the most part. And I am one and hate sitting in traffic as much as the next person. But I always give space to cyclists and in fact get more pissed off at drivers that do 3 point turns in the middle of traffic and hold everyone up, or are on their phone at the lights and don't go when it turns green.
I get that a person on a bike is just using a different form of transport. At least having to wait for them is better than being stuck in traffic because 50% of the road is filled with parked unused cars.
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The other issue is you'll save them 10% of the time...and in a year they'll go back to complaining about how long it is taking them because of 'all the traffic'....and cyclists! lol
I just don't think drivers will ever stop complaining. I wonder if even if you get 50% of drivers to change to bikes, you'll have congestion, because ultimately you'll have many more cyclists on the road which means taking some road back to cater for this given the absolute lack of dedicated cycling infrastructure. So I wonder if it's a catch 22...and if drivers just have to accept that given the ludicrous amount of people we now fit into cities and spaces, you don't any long get to feel you have a right to travel fast in build up areas. Highways are for cars to go fast. Almost every other road is not created for speed.
No different to cyclists that think they have a right to travel at super fast speeds on shared paths. Same mentality. It's a human thing. And at some point we just cant all have our cake and eat it.
that low key beat drives me nutz.
often used arguments:
-they don´t follow the rules (pushing red lights, ride without lights in the dark etc.), and because of not having a licence plate are hard to punish for that.
-ride dangerous for others but more often for themselfs. most car drivers don´t want to over run a cyclist.
-don´t pay taxes for car roads they use
-slow down traffic.
Yeah, all rather silly arguments, but repeated with conviction.
Good to know Australia has their share of Karens too.
Great video. Only complaint is that the woman was said to be 'a crazy lady'. She's not crazy, she's belligerent and aggressive. Let's move away from the stereotypes about women as well as cyclists and non-Whites.
Just like there are bad drivers, there are also bad cyclists. Nobody deserves to be stereotyped and individuals should only be accountable for their actions, not anyone else’s. At the end of the day, tolerance for each other while sharing the roads safely should be the main priority.
The problem is (almost) exclusively, that those people DO NOT ride bikes. They (almost) allways say they do, but IF they (ever) ride a bike, you can bet it's on a nice and well tempered day and only on (good) recreational routes. Which is a VERY different experienced compared to using it as a mode of transportation
And that's the problem. You don't "understand" "cyclists" if the last time you've ACTUALLY used a bike was when you were 12. You don't uderstand at all, how it is like to ride on inacceptable infrastructure. They don't know what it's like to get passed by super closed. They don't know what it's like to be outside of their metal cages.
All they know is their cars front seat. And from there, bikes are annoying, it's true. But People ignore, the fact, that the cyclist before them propably would be a car otherwise and costing much more time.
Absolutely. There's a few in these comments who claim "I am a cyclist" who suggest otherwise with the rest of their words
Tribalism and fear of people who are perceived as different and therefore a threat, is the psychology motivating those who hate a whole class (or race or creed). Jealousy is another aspect. Unfortunately, those who hate cyclists are largely immune to attempts to modify their thinking, as are racists, misogynists etc. It's the same mindset.
I can't speak to what's happening in Brisbane, but here in San Diego, California, the city has undertaken a massive effort to install bike infrastructure throughout the city to do the very things you mentioned: reduce traffic and be more environmentally friendly. In fact, as of right now, there are about 2,850 km of bike lanes in the greater San Diego region. But in the process of doing this, they've alienated a ton of people.
San Diego is a collection of small neighborhoods, and when the bike lanes were installed, they were done so at the expense of either removing a traffic lane or by eliminating street parking altogether. Small businesses that have lost parking in front of their shops have reported a substantial decline in revenue as a result and some have even closed. To add insult to injury the volume of riders using the bike lanes is minimal. If the city is going to spend millions upon millions of dollars installing bike lanes, cyclists better use them.
Sadly, however, there are enough cyclists who refuse to use the bike lanes that are installed. There is a stretch along the ocean front that runs for 16 km that has a four-lane divided highway with a speed limit of 105 km/hr. There's a parallel bike lane that's 20-30 m away from the traffic lane separated by a grass median, and yet cyclists still opt to ride on the shoulder of the highway 2 meters from cars and trucks whizzing by at a high rate of speed. Those cyclists certainly don't endear themselves to the public.
The other cyclists who don't endear themselves to the public are the ones who ride through red lights or stops signs, ride with earbuds deep in their ears with music playing so they can't hear a car coming up beside them and turn suddenly, or who ride hands holding their cell phone as their texting and riding hands-free.
Lastly, at least here, there seems to be a sense of indignation or entitlement by some bikers. I get that there are far more careless motorists than there are careless cyclists and, in many cases, cyclists have every right to react to something in a defensive and animated way. (I was halfway into an intersection with a four-way stop sign, and a cyclist came screaming down a hill and blew through the intersection right in front of me, causing me to brake hard. When I honked my horn, he raised his hand and flipped me off as though it was my fault he didn't stop at the stop sign like I did.)
Generalizing about an entire population isn't good in either case-cyclists or motorists-and I do believe we all can do better at representing our own group and enforcing the rules that apply to each.
Very strange to hear bike lanes resulting in decline of business. Everywhere else in the world where bike lanes have replaced car parking takings have increased substantially.
Might be something else happening there I suspect
Why? Wow this is a big interesting topic to say the least. Thanks for video.
The UK seems to have a wild fire of hate against bicycles more than the US/Canada weirdly, I've been to places where people don't want to share the road so it's uncomfortable to ride with them but it seems many tabloids are taking the notch up on the hate and increasing action of targeted physical aggression against people riding bikes.
How does it make sense to 1. get mad at someone riding a bicycle on the road then 2. don't fund any projects to creat bicycle paths THEN 3. tell them us we can't ride on sidewalks.
It isn't just cyclists... it's pedestrians near/on the road in general... I understand the arguments of "I'm an adult, and adult's drive cars... bikes are for kids"... but there are blind-spots in my jeep (completely stock/factory) that can hide a pickup-truck just 1 car-length away. Combined with the fact that in America at least, most cyclists are athletes of some kind, not your average citizens riding to work... unless of course they're kids. It's basically a "why can't you go to a gym" combined with a horror of killing somebody accidently... I would love to be a cyclist... but there is no amount of money you could pay me to ride a bike... or even a motorcycle, on American roads... it's too dangerous... and it's that danger (ironically of course, it's the cars that are dangerous)... that keeps drivers hating cyclists.
combine that with the fact that cities will virtue-signal, doing the bare-minimum, to look good... and you get less adequate, even more hazardous bike lanes... thus killing any further spending, because "we tried it... it's dangerous"
Awesome video!
Often rage and fear are paired closely in people's brains. Lots of time, I hear people expressing fear of injuring people on bikes as they are difficult to predict. Sometimes we follow the laws, sometimes not. Sometimes we act like pedestrians. Sometimes not. The fear of killing someone quickly becomes anger. Heck, I have trouble with pedestrians when I'm driving for the same reason! Driving is stressful and stuff that makes it more stressful and harder to predict is scary and that fear can quickly turn into deep anger.
Don't know how to fix it other than by making roads safer and less insane. Design for pleasant rather than efficient travel, I guess?
Yeah I think you're onto something there. The stress of driving increases the faster the environment with more things to consider. Slower speed limits in areas with pedestrians and cyclists would reduce that a lot. Thanks for your comment!
If we banned all bicycles, and riders, that could solve the problem. A better idea would be to make it mandatory for everyone in a country to bicycle for a week, every year. Not the same week cause that would have no effect, but staggered throughout the year. That way motorist might have a better idea of what people on bikes go through, and would be far more understanding. In theory. Nice video by the way.
Miserable people love company. Sitting in a car makes one miserable. Not that complicated.
I agree there's so much hatred towards cyclists. Hopefully we can gradually show people that cyclists are just people, and that cycling is really fun... That's what I'm trying to do with my channel anyway!
The only time I had a positive response from everyone on the streets was when I rode my Recumbent bike, I have no idea why.
I'd say the simplest way to change minds is to get people onto bicycles. Although I haven't had it happen yet, I would suggest that when confronted, keep calm, and make a 'date' with them to go on a bike ride that coming weekend. Meet at a place where they can rent/hire a bike and go from there. Take them onto the roads, too, so that they can experience firsthand what it's like being on a bicycle in traffic and among drivers who resent you even being there. If they are still not convinced, then nothing will change their minds. If they decide it's too dangerous to get onto a bike again, then they at least understand one aspect of riding, and just might help in working to change the prevailing thinking against cycling.
They're already done this, as children. Then they stopped because the roads are obviously too dangerous. Some may come back, and will be reminded. It's naive to think grown adults will have developed an in-group sympathy with cyclists, once they go back to their cars. The world isn't a kind place - it's just been kind to a lot of you because you have status/wealth. People are 6-foot tall apes - the most dangerous type of animal on the planet.
@@GTMarmot I have neither status nor wealth, so that’s a weird take. Only the fully carbrained have a problem with anything impacting their driving experience in the slightest, such as for those using non-car forms of transport. It seems to cause major anger issues in them, making them into worse drivers. Most drivers are indeed courteous to anyone outside of their vehicles, at least in my limited experience in Houston. What is naive is to think that only children use bicycles, as if to say that they are still toys. I see plenty of motorized toys on the roads (just saw one today, in the form of a jacked-pickup truck). Seems to me those are the childish ones, and the most dangerous to all road users, including other drivers.
I always imagine that people who hate cyclists are actually just jealous because they can't ride a bike without stabilisers and I feel a tiny bit better.
The root of the issue is the difference in speed of bikes vs. motorized vehicles. The presence of bikes on insufficient road infrastructure requires motorized vehicles to slow down or take risk. Slowing down can result in anger or increased anxiety if a vehicle operator is time constrained. Taking risks such as passing a cyclist when there is not sufficient room can result in anger because the operator knows they are taking chances.
Motorized vehicle operators are not the only ones dealing with these As cyclists we deal with the same issues on multi-use paths. I bike commute to/from work multiple times/week in good weather. Much of my route is along multi-use paths. As a cyclist, I over take the pedestrians, joggers, in-line skaters, and the dog-walkers. These slow speed path users often take up the full width of the path, walking/jogging side-by-side, or allowing their pet to roam while on a retractable leash. I use a bike bell to inform them of my presence and I also give a verbal notification but about 10% of the slow speed path users are wearing ear buds and don't hear my notifications. I have to slow down, loudly announce my presence, often startling them in the process, before I can safely pass. I get frustrated because I have to bleed off hard earned momentum but it makes me think about how drivers feel when they encounter me on the road. That said, it's easier to regain momentum in a motorized vehicle then it is on a bike.
You make a good point. A lot of drivers have the attitude that they must be driving at the speed limit, and if they're not they are being inconvenienced. I used to drive with that attitude too. It changes when you realise what's happening at human speed on and near streets.
Changing my approach to driving at a comfortable speed - good distance behind vehicle in front, able to see what's going on up ahead and at side streets - is actually far less stressful. As a result, if someone goes a bit slower, or a pedestrian crossed, or a cyclist is ahead, it's no big deal.
Similar approach on shared paths. If there's people walking you just slow down, try and communicate and pass safely.
The anxiety about "needing to be somewhere" i think is a real problem. Rarely is anyone ever facing a life and death situation being a few minutes later than planned. But trying to make up those minutes on the road could result in a catastrophic outcome.
Better to be late than dead, or kill/injure someone.
It's poor cooperation.
We all need to do better.
But that would mean looking up, and making contact in some way.
I am old enough to remember tipping one's hat.
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One study said an average of 16% of cyclists violated red lights. I think there must be an over representation in London but joking aside this is one very common complaint I imagine pedestrians and other vehicle users have
And yet despite that perception, studies have consistently shown that cyclists break fewer road rules than motorists. Curious huh? It's that out grouping bias at play. You remember when you see something from an out group, but tend to ignore it when it's someone in the in group (like a driver...)
usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-break-traffic-laws-any-more-than-drivers-do
@Chris Cox Not that much as there are some poor drivers, not just on police camera action, especially in London where you can get aggressively beeped for putting it into neutral, as takes a few seconds longer to pull away, but also some drivers don’t seem to understand the concept of give way and in London there are a lot of narrow streets with parked cars either side where this is an essential skill to have. Bad cyclists tend to have different faults such as cycling through red lights at speed which I do not like to see and like to see it even less as a pedestrian. Also don’t think I’m an expert driver I am average at best and probably the same as a pedestrian but one thing I don’t do is walk and talk on a phone.
Tbh I wouldn’t mind paying road tax - at a lower rate than car owners. If it meant that drivers would treat me as an equal on the roads.
Big if...
@@ChrisCoxCycling well yeah, but at least they couldn’t say I don’t pay.
It would be great to pay cycling road tax if it also gave insurance cover.
@@amandajane8227 you don't need insurance cover...you've already got it with your home and contents policy.
why would you want to pay road tax?
A tax is only payable on things a person owns, earns or buys, none of which apply to a road.
Roads aren't taxable, because it's public infrastructure and people can't buy it or own it.
It's the vehicle that's taxable, and in turn, any taxes applied to cars or any motor vehicle is a tax on laziness and a tax on pollution, neither of which apply to bicycles.
I ride ebike in NZ. I try to avoid roads as much as possible and go on cycle lanes and tracks. The biggest problem here, is ( Some ) cyclists ride on the roads, at times 2 or 3 wide, and if you give them a toot... they give you the finger and carry on.
Well, don't give them a toot. Just overtake when it's safe to do so.
Why do cyclists often ride side by side taking up the room of a car and won’t move over,I have been in an 80kmh zone being held up with bicycles side by side doing less than 20kmh and won’t move over, then giving drivers rude jesters for tooting them. These type of riders give cycling a bad image. I have seen this more than once
Why should they get out of your way? Slow down and overtake when safe like a good driver should.
@@ChrisCoxCycling side by side is just selfish. And dangerous
I don’t get it either developing cycleways gets cyclist off the road, I’d much prefer to ride on a cycleway then deal with cars it’s sad to hear it’s been delayed
Motorists in Switzerland are the most courteous to cyclists that I've known. My NZ motorists are about the worst, and German cycling friends have abandoned their NZ cycling trips due to aggressive motorists.
Yes I've heard our cousins across the ditch are just about as bad as we are behind the wheel.
There’s a simple reason for the annoyance and that is many people ( motorists)are just trying to get to work, hospital or schools and the odd inconsiderate cyclists not using the cycleways or hogging the centre of the road creates a lasting memory. I drive and cycle and have seen the problem from both sides so maybe a tolerance is required from all sides.
So people riding their bikes to work, hospital or schools are inconsiderate?
@@ChrisCoxCycling you know what I’m saying you just choose to drop into a group that feels entitled. You do not see many builders, plumbers, delivery drivers, doctors, ambulances, buses, fire engines, police etc etc riding bikes not a very well thought out reply.
"I drive and cycle" is so typical and so revealing. And "hogging the centre of the road" takes it even further. If you actually had road cycling experience, you would know that there are many solid reasons why cyclists move out from the edge of the roadway, among them:
- lane is too narrow for a motor vehicle to pass a cyclist safely without moving at least partly out of the lane, so moving out helps prevent motorists from trying to force through when there is oncoming traffic and thus endangering the cyclist
- blind crest or blind curve approaching, unsafe to pass
- parked cars, door zone (often very serious injuries from getting doored)
- avoiding potholes, metal grates, other road surface issues (which motorist may not notice)
Has it ever occurred to you that the vast majority of cyclists ALSO DRIVE CARS?? So they see "the problem from both sides" too, your perspective is hardly unusual. OTOH the vast majority of motorists DON"T CYCLE (on the roads), so motorists don't see it from both sides, which is the REAL problem.
Let's do a little arithmetic. Lane widths vary, but around here they are 11-12' for 2-lane state highways. Google says cars average about 5.8' wide, SUV's and pickups up to 7', trucks of course wider still. A bicycle is not quite 2' wide, and laws require 3' of clearance for bicycles (4.5' in the UK). A cyclist riding with their hand over the edge of the lane will have their wheels 1' from the edge, manageable but tricky given that cyclists are balancing. See where this is going? So a 7' SUV in a 12' lane will leave 5', exactly the minimum for a 2' bicycle plus 3' of clearance. And the SUV will have to have its offside tires exactly on the centerline, zero clearance for oncoming motor traffic also passing a bicycle.
@@paulflory3532 haha thank you for the instructional lecture, kind of says it all, just the number of words suggests intolerance. Lost interest before the New Testament I’m afraid.
I lost my car due to an accident caused by a deer, it was really hard adjusting at first but I rode the same Schwinn I had in highschool. I’ve learned the public transit in my city pretty well, and a lesson. Now it will be hard to go back to a car.
It’s even weirder because I’m training to be an automotive technician myself. Being involved in the automotive industry makes my feelings ambivalent. I enjoy going fast and fixing them. But the way they’ve ultimately effected urban planning, zoning, low income communities, the environment, politics, people’s health and wallets is awful.
Yep. Cars aren't bad. They're a useful tool. We have just allowed them to be used for far too many things they're overkill for.
After the fuel price went over 2 dollars a litre I stopped driving to work and started taking the train and riding my bike and it has been the best thing for me I wish I had started doing it years ago I'm much fitter and healthier It costs literally a fraction of running a car and it's way more relaxing than driving and when you realise how inefficient car mass transit is its a no brainer. All it takes on a freeway is for one person to have an accident and the whole thing becomes a car park now your going to be sitting in your metal box for an extra half hour or more when you could of been out in the fresh air getting some exercise while going from A to B like I said no brainer.
Been pondering on this for a while Chris. The biggest danger to cyclists is that they are cyclists imho. Even with all the safety infrastructure we still have to interact with cars, and we, as a society, need drivers to recognise and respect that cyclists have a right to use roads, and be safe when doing so. Just as other drivers or pedestrians do.
I really don't like the segregation that is going on. In my opinion, the more we try to remove bikes from roads the more I feel we enable 'roads are for motor vehicles' mentality.
Because as much as dedicated cycle lanes that don't interact with cars at all are great...the reality is any day to day cyclist uses roads and until we get a system like in the netherlands where cycling is prioritised absolutely everywhere and the culture is changed completely, drivers will always hate cyclists.
How do we change it?
The only way I can see is to make everyone a cyclist. As you say, it's the othering. Drivers will tolerate parked cars chewing up entire lanes all day, tolerate other drivers filling roads to slow or stop them. But the minute they have to wait 1 second to pass a cyclist, or not even that but just be considerate to something other than them..it's on!
In NYC they have 3 weekends a year where some of the city is blocked off to cars. Entirely.
I love this idea. I love that roads be ceded to pedestrians and cyclists and roller bladers...basically anyone other than drivers of motor vehicles.
I'd love to see cycling incentives like England where people are given subsidies for bikes...especially with the cost of electric bikes that would seriously help get people unhooked from cars.
Every new non residential road should have bike lanes on each side of it. Unquestionably. How we still have roads being extended only to cater for more cars and not bikes is beyond me.
I'd love to see more free 'fun rides' where cities organise days where anyone on a bike can use things like bridges or tunnels etc...basically the places that would be fun to ride or even walk, but are taken over by cars.
In Melbourne the Bolte Bridge and Westgate Bridge that give unprecedented views of Melbourne but also an unprecendented experience of what infrastructure created for cars, if turned over to cycling offers.
Ultimately we need a way to turn everyone into cyclists and create infrastructure that equally prioritises cyclists.
I think someone very observantly mentioned in a comment further down that they hate how cyclists wizz past. I think the jealousy of cyclists not being as beholden to all the same rules and issues as driving a car is a big factor. Though drivers forget that as much as there are perks, riding in the cold and rain are counters to this.
It's evident in most cities that trying to get people to cycle is lip service. We keep spreading our cities further and further out. Cyclists are limited to when and what public transport they can use. There's literally no proper public cycling storage and change facilities in town so unless you are riding to work you are stuffed (risking leaving bikes on streets that are constantly stolen or damaged, and no place to shower and change in hot or wet weather). We have badly designed and implemented bike infrastructure and we fail to accept that bike paths for families on weeks are very different to people using bicycles as a utilitarian form of transport and not just recreational.
But who knows...maybe none of this is right either. I don't ever see a society where we should have to ban cars entirely. I mean in a perfect world this makes sense. But I can't see that happening in cities that spread over 120km wide now like in Australia.
Excellent thoughts.
Your comment about "segregation" and giving the impression that roads are for cars, and bike lanes for bikes is actually part of the late John Forrester's mindset that led to his "vehicular cycling" approach. Basically encouraging cyclists to "Take back the street" and ride in an assertive, central position to remind motorists that we have the right to be there. In a similar vain, he resisted installation of bike infrastructure.
It sounds like a noble cause, but the reality is it creates a massive barrier to people starting to cycle. If you haven't ridden a bike in years, and someone says "oh sure, get a bike and ride down the middle of the left lane on Moggill Road, because that's your right", they're going to think you're insane.
The Netherlands is, despite all the cliches, the perfect case study. In the 1970s their cities were no different to ours. Cars were king. Bike infrastructure was non existent. It was be confident and assertive on your bike and you might not die (but you might too...especially if you're a kid). They didn't just flick a switch and go from that to the cycling heaven they are now. It was very much an iterative process.
Unfortunately we just don't have a culture in Australia of people "rising up" for change. In fact, we outwardly disparage activism, and criminalise protest movements. So it's a very different beast here. A "Stop the Kindermoord" campaign like the Dutch did just would not happen here (plus we've been so brainwashed that to keep our kids safe we have to drive them everywhere...)
I definitely agree that the way to change attitudes is to make "everyone" a cyclist, or someone who knows a cyclist. So we need more incentives to get more people doing it. E-bikes are, I think, the key. They eliminate the physical and weather barriers that people so often have. To make the most of them we need to link up the separated bikeways we have so people can more or less go from home to destination in safety and comfort.
Once the number of "normal" people riding regularly picks up, you have less resistance to things like 30kph residential streets, more bike lanes, removing street parking where it creates dangerous conflict points and so on.
Most of all though we need city and state government leadership that knows it's the right thing to do and push ahead, despite pushback. Because it's been shown time and time again when you resist "bikelash", people end up supporting what you deliver and the people who complained forget why they were resistant in the first place.
@@ChrisCoxCycling Digging the thought process.
Alas yes…I think of segregated areas for cars and bikes like black people being allowing into places back before you know…equality and respect dawned on western culture. Though it's not quite the same I guess
You’re right though. I’m not suggesting we don’t aim for complimentary infrastructure to ultimately create a society where our cities, and much so the urban areas, area taken over by cars. Just that shrinking into the shadows isn't going to do any favours and only make the ground we need to gain greater.
Interesting thoughts on protest. I agree. Only have to look lately at how we have responded to people protesting. It’s seen as an inconvenience to everyone else. Interestingly Melbourne itself was designed so that there was no-where for public gatherings to have protests I recently found out. No city square. No area for people to gather in big crowds. It’s in our psyche from the very beginning.
We are pretty god damn useless in Australia. I mean I heard on the news only last night that kids in detention centres were still subjugated to what is essentially torture. And if we are allowing that as a society which is just a basic wrong and shouldn't be happening and allowing our governments to allow that…what chance do we have as cyclists to get change? :-(
E-bikes should, should, open it up. But I think there are just so many bloody barriers mate. I’m not going to be leaving a $10,000 bike on the street. We have nothing for security or changing so unless your work has a good space, you’re left open to your bike being stolen. Then there is the distances and sprawl of Australian cities. I’m 20km our of town and that’s probably a decent cyclist that is going to be commuting that distance, especially in winter or bad days. And at least in Melbourne we are now 40-5km sprawl.
Though this said…we don’t need everyone cycling right…we just need a few more. I remember watching something somewhere that spoke about even a small % swapping to bikes and public transport would free up so much more space on the roads….and add significant numbers more to cycling which makes it safer for all cyclists.
I definitely agree that the gap between being a kid and riding around your suburban back streets and becoming an adult commuting and mixing it on roads with a good understanding of how drivers think etc leaves a big gap in safety and this is where most people put the bike down and move to being picked up/dropped off, public transport or getting their own car.
Back to ebikes…I think being able to get home speedily is important. Not so much that we need bikes to be travelling fast. But removing things that add significant time to a bike journey. Waiting to cross roads, Being sent the long way around areas to make it ‘safer’ and impact cars etc.
As you say in the video…it’s the squeaky wheel that gets the grease (cept if your my bike…then sometimes you don’t lol) As you say…govt need to understand what they want the cities and societies to look like, and push ahead, ignoring the small minority that bitch and complain. Because ultimately, cars are only costing society more and more money, lives, and space.
I wonder whether it needs to be put into a financial figure and go to an election with.
We can have 27 billion dollars (this is just the cost of the injuries and incidents) more that we can use each year to better society….or we can keep building roads and allowing more cars that will cost you more and more and leave less for things you want like child care, paid maternity leave, free dental, free healthcare, a better education program, etc etc etc
Though maybe not. I just don’t understand it and to be honest…I think this question you have asked is the most important one to ask. Above cycling safety. Because if we figure out why and change people’s minds about cycling…everything else we do for cyclists, and to make roads safer for everyone is negligible and a necessity, not a fight each and every time.
Eh. I mean I’m not the smartest tool in the shed and I am bias, but I don’t see how hard it for even an idiot to work out that cycling is part of the answer to a lot of bloody issues in society at the moment.
You know what I would love...remove all safety devices in a car and remove the ability to insure cars and see how carefully people start driving. We've all but removed any real risk or responsibility now in driving. Or at least the illusion of it. Ultimately we want to be preventative not reactionary and safety devices and insurance are ultimately the later. Similar to the helmet concept people use that wearing one causing you to be more risky because of the perceived safety device you have. When in fact it doesn't reduce the risk of having an incident, just the ability to hopefully negate any serious issue to your noggen.
Would make for a very interesting case study and experiment.
I think road authorities tend to focus on the wrong things when they're delivering active transport. Well, maybe not wrong, but there's definitely a big focus on big investment in trunk "cycling highways" to get to the CBD. In other words, they're really focussing in on the people who want to ride all the way to work. And sure, that's a good market to look at.
But what's interesting is that the Department of Transport and Main Roads in Queensland has a stat on their web site that says 79% of all car trips are less than 5km. Think about that. 4 out of every 5 times someone drives their car it is less than 5km in distance.
5km is a pretty comfortable 20 minute bike ride, if you have the infrastructure and road environment that makes it safe, convenient and appealing.
As you say, it's not about getting everyone to ride a bike all the time, but imagine if we could get even 10% of those
Cars are about the most inherently selfish mode of transportation there is (for peasants anyway), so I think a lot of the hatred is a result of that. The reaction I see some motorists have to being slowed down slightly by a cyclist is not much different than their reaction to another driver going too slow for their liking. It's just a lot easier to aggressively pass a cyclist than to pass another car.
The part I don't get is how those people fight so hard against bicycle infrastructure when cyclists themselves want a system where they can travel most places without sharing roads with cars. Motorists and cyclists have the same desire but the motorists fight with tooth and nail against the very infrastructure that would get bikes and cars on their own separate paths.
There's a fear that providing bike infrastructure will take away from roads for cars - either in terms of investment, or space (eg, losing a few parking spaces 😱)
We currently overinvest in cars with both money and space. Suggestions to change that is considered a threat.
What's the old saying? When you've become accustomed to privilege, equity feels like oppression.
@@ChrisCoxCycling If motorists were afraid to lose a lane to a bike path then I would have understood it already.
But from what I gather, motorists even fight against the addition or improvement of trails (like the one in your video), even when the funding is coming from parks & recreation and not DOT.
As someone intimately familiar with intersectionality (being a minority in several categories) I would absolutely call the hatred of cyclists a legitimate form of bigotry, at least in the States. Sounds like its the same there considering how the person you were referring to brought up black people right away, and you even seen the bigoted nature of it yourself.
I wish I knew how and why a small number of ignorant and angry transportation luddites wield so much power in or public life. In New Zealand, we had a huge national round of locally driven, centrally funded, incremental and legal, tactical urbanism projects all around the nation. And these were nearly universally scuttled by venomous input from the social media hog-pilers. The lack of gonadal fortitude exhibited by councilors is shameful.
I think in some cases the ignorant and angry transportation luddites are actually councillors themselves - that's certainly the case with one high profile project that's been scuttled three times in Brisbane in the past 5 years.
Silly question here… what’s “roe joe”/“red joe”? Is that a tax? I know here in the states a common statement in absolutely every discussion is that ‘bikes need to get a license plate and a tax, they ride around for free!’ Which is of course silly because we definitely still pay. Anyhow, good vid thanks!
Ah yeah, Australian slang. Rego short for registration.
@@ChrisCoxCycling ha! I knew I was wrong but I didn’t think I was that far off! Nice
The lack of self-awareness in this comments section is astounding.
Would you like to elaborate on that?
You can't fix 'stupid', with 'stupid' defined as 'unthinking', & the point is that thinking is a skill just as much as riding, & like any other skill many people just don't think very well.
For the less 'able' among us, we make motorways more safe than necessary for the best drivers, we make bikeways more safe than necessary for the best riders, & we have to make thoughtways more safe than necessary for the best thinkers, all because some folks will simply never get it - or not retain it. Just as we go out of our way to educate the worst drivers & bikers up to a minimal standard in our own self defense, we must also educate the worst thinkers up to a minimal standard in our own self defense.
The ignorant woman in your story, & others like her, might be unknowingly impressed by clever educational exposures that arrived in her conscientiousness before her personal bias had a chance to avoid them. That's one solution.
$5/l petrol is coming!
As the fuel prices rise cars get "Slower" because it takes longer to earn the money to buy the fuel.
Eg, just the cost of fuel driving at 100kph can easily get to $30 tax paid per hour at $3 per litre.
(This is the Speed introduction)
cyclists are seen as a moving obstacle and not alot more. "ive got to get from here to there in this amount of time and this cyclist just wouldnt get out of my way!"
Everyone on a bike is 1 person who's NOT in a car. Cars are loud, polluting, space hogs. And they want to be angry at people on bikes? who's the one who's inconsiderate?
Interesting topic. You know it is really hard to generalize for a broader population but there are always good and bad cyclists on the roads just like all humans:)
Maybe use 'fietser' to designate as opposed to 'wielrenner'. I actually hate groups of wheelrunners with a passion, then again I'm a fietser first and foremost and a soloist when I'm a wheelrunner...