I'm a charismatic on melatonin lol I find both Dr. White and Dr. Brown to be beneficial to my growth. While both are a bit deeper in their camps than I like and have stances I don't agree with, the fact that they are brothers in arms, genuine friends, and actual learn from each other is encouraging to my soul. They are a great example of Christian unity, and both men have earned even more of my respect.
Dr Brown is the real deal, loves God with His whole heart. Too many Heresy hunters out there with No love for the Church that Jesus Christ loves. Good grief does anyone have everything perfect? I disagree with Dr Brown on several issues eschatology Israel but he’s a great example to Follow.
I read "How Saved are We?" by Dr Brown early on in my Christian walk and was challenged and blessed by it. I started out Pentecostal and became Reformed although I am not a cessationist. Dr White is often accused of lacking grace but I don't accept that. Also, "The God Who Justifies" may be the best book written on the subject of justification. I have also remained a big supporter of Israel and a historic Premillennialist and I think every Christian should read "Our Hands Are Stained With Blood" by Dr Brown.
Thank you for this. I am an inbetweener. Not a Charismatic (though I listen to Dr. Brown regularly and agree with so much on the other subjects). Dr. White on the other hand I have avoided. I am not reformed and found his hard line offensive to the universal church body that agree on the essentials,. But this dialogue has changed my mind. So many in his camp are so quick to use the heretic label, calling me unsaved for my theological differences, it turns me off. I will now consider listening to Dr. White. I dont mind hearing other views. It helps me look more closely at scripture.
Listen to a conversation with James and Michael and compare this to how James interacts with Leighton Flowers. Worlds of difference although Michael and Leighton are quite close soteriologically.
These two men have been one of the best modern examples of Christian unity. Christ's bride has been and continues to be beaten up by unnecessary sectarianism. Convictions of faith, when sincerely prompted by scripture, should be held tightly, but always in conjunction with grace & charity for other followers of Christ who might see things a little differently. Thanks for hosting both gentlemen and giving them an opportunity to share their testimonies in this area.
Tares stick together against the Free-Gracers. Tares are always looking at their works, fruits, life to prove or give evidence of God's salvation and not believing in and on the promise of God that if you trust Jesus as God and Savior for everlasting life you will be saved forever.
I loved this conversation. I am Reformed and a cessationist. And I have had my concerns and critiques of Dr. Brown over the last few years I’ve known of him. However, the more I see of him, or listen to what he actually says, the more I feel for him and sympathize with his overwhelming desire for unity. Now, I think he can go too far and can seemingly be naive regarding certain things and people, but like Dr. White, I believe Dr. Brown is as much a Brother in Christ as I am. And to be perfectly frank, I hope to have even a fraction of the sincerity, passion, love, grace and Biblical understanding that Dr. Brown has. I don’t have to agree with even half of what he says, to see he is obviously a man who has a tremendous heart for God and for God’s people. For anyone who may disagree with me, ask me what I think about someone like Bill Johnson or Steven Furtick. I’m no one’s lap dog. I just see a sincere man who loves Christ and whom I disagree with on several very important, secondary issues.
Thanks guys for having this dialogue! Loved it, I've been a years-long fan of both Dr. White and Dr. Brown. There are plenty of us who, like you, are starved for mature, respectful conversations. Thanks for doing your part to foster a better way.
Awe! 😢 I love both of these brothers so much. I am a Calvinist, and I believe all the 5 points, and when I see this brother, Dr. Brown holding back tears in pointing out that issue made my heart go out for him. You can see his love for Christ and his love for Peters in his eyes. Surely he could care a less about what people say about him. So let that be your lens when seeing his broken heart… that’s all I got to say.
I'm just curious, why would you think God sovereignly decreed for some of his children to not know the real truth about his sovereignty, like Dr. Brown?
I’m not calvinist, I’m closer to Wesleyan Arminianism, but I consider Calvinist my brothers. I understand we have our own convictions in our theology but we are still brothers and sisters in Christ. And I feel like most people that fight with one another is because they don’t understand each others systematic theology, and Caricature each other. We are actually more alike than what we think. God bless you all.
@@Dizernershow us the scripture that claims that all humans are his children? I was sure that scripture makes the claim that only a small group are Gods children. John 1: 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. How about John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. So which scripture that claims that God says all humanity are his children? Dr Brown believes in an another gospel, he believes that a believers salvation is not eternal but conditional, he is closer to Roman Catholicism than historical Protestantism, he also holds to the doctrine of Molina a false teacher Roman Catholic leader.
@@thereisnopandemic Do you think only Calvinists are saved? Most Calvinists do not believe that, so unless you think those Calvinists are also lost, you have run into the same problem.
@@Dizerner good question, I don’t think that. Not everyone is a child of God. “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:12-13 only those born of God, by God’s decision are His children, and they receive Him as an outflow of that work of God. “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.” John 6:39 “saying, “I will proclaim Your name to My brethren, In the midst of the congregation I will sing Your praise.” And again, “I will put My trust in Him.” And again, “Behold, I and the children whom God has given Me.” Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,” Hebrews 2:12-14 only those who are given by the Father to the Son are children, and notice the words here- “therefore since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise partook of flesh and blood”. This tells us that they were seen as children before the incarnation of Christ, before He “partook of flesh and blood”.
When you spend a significant amount of time away from TH-cam and then return, the overwhelming amount of unnecessary hate, division, slander, and sensationalism is painfully obvious. Thanks for bucking that trend, Bibledingers. Some people get mad because you aren't making enough people mad. LOL! I enjoyed this conversation. :)
This was a great talk on unity in the body! I’ve been hyper-charismatic/pentecostal, reformed Baptist cessationist, now a continuationist/charismatic. I see things from both sides and loved the dialogue. Don’t love the comments in the chat so much. God Bless @bibledingers for promoting unity. 🙏🏻❤️
Sounds like you are investigating everything (like me😉). I think you could probably add “noble Berean” to your CV. Recently, I had to do a deep dive on Catholicism, latter-day Saints, and new apostolic reformation. I also had to educate myself on critical race theory, progressive Christianity, deconstruction, how New Age and new thought are invading the orthodox protestant denominations, and the. Craziness going on in the southern Baptist convention.😵💫🫣🤦♀️ I like the motto of one of the programs I follow which says “comparing what people are doing in the name of God to the word of God.” there can be no unity unless there is agreement on the truth. our main job as Christians is to help people answer the dilemma of life’s most critical question which is where will you spend eternity? Have you heard the bad news? There’s nothing you can do to help yourself. Have you heard the good news?
I was just thinking about your two guest and was wondering if they continued their friendship, This video has confirmed this for me. I’m thankful and encouraged after viewing this. Have been discouraged over the the disunity and criticisms that I have seen over secondary issues. Have truly been refreshed after seeing these two men together. God has truly used them as a team that contended for the truth as they debated as a team.
Seems no one in this comments section has the grace God afforded them. These men are about as far from wolves as you could be and in they may have their missteps, but you might need to check yourself before God does. This is how men in the Kingdom actually interact.
Seems you also lack grace. Or is it absolutely impossible that the comments are pointing something legitimate out. Never called either one a wolf. There was zero iron sharpening iron. How could their be when everything is avoided. That is the criticism from the comment section. Perhaps dwell on it instead of casting your own stone. I don't know bibledingers. This is my first time listening to them. They are only interested in liking comments like yours instead of replying to actual responses to their videos. Would go a long way to satiate comments on how I saw the video than to just claim theirs lack of grace. That's the crime.
@@r.rodriguez4991 come on guys salvation isn’t about God choosing and how he goes about redeeming individuals as in Calvinism Calvinist believe Christ died for their sins and upon that is where their faith lies for their sins
If you believe you are in the Kingdom already, you ARE a wolf because not even Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in the Kingdom of God yet. Heb. 11 is clear on the fact that NONE of the deceased followers of God have inherited eternal life. They won't be in the Kingdom of God until Christ returns and raises them to eternal life with their glorified spirit bodies. That is why Christ told the religious elites that the patriarchs _will be there_ .
Unity must never be at the expense of essential truths. Biblical unity is not being buddies with anyone that slaps on the label "Christian," it is unity in the Spirit. Different people draw those essential lines in different places, so there will never be a time that all Christians can be in complete unity, because some are in sin.
I suggest you open a bible and look at the 1st century. There was total uniformity in doctrines and customs, and God's apostle Paul said there is to be NO SCHISM". That sounds exactly what it reads like. 2 Jhn 9 says whoever is out of alignment with Christ's doctrines have _no_ relationship with God to speak of. Ppl say this stuff to justify the fact that they're out of alignment with Christ's doctrines and the commanded customs. That's why they're heretics.
@@david8252 we don’t censor our content. We have incredible respect for our audience. They’re intelligent and can decide for themselves who makes biblical arguments. If you want doctored content, then you’re going to have to head over to mainstream media.
@@Bibledingers that was meant for Ruslan lol, saw some of his remarks against cessationism, and they were out of context, strawman arguments. Do you believe that you may be putting some defenseless sheep at risk, by giving voice to these erroneous ways of teaching? Notice I didn't say false to be fair.
This was a great conversation. I love both of these brothers in Christ and have grown closer to the Lord as a result of both of these men's ministries. Glad to see this friendship.
Although they are friendly with each other, what divides them and what divides every other denomination is the differences in their doctrine. Division in the church is unavoidable, however, this stream shows we could have loving, friendly division… Our prayer should be for the return of Christ so that we can finally find the unity that our soul’s desires! 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for having these discussions. They are informative and I think it's important we do all we can to keep fellowship as those in Christ. It's absolutely true that we are getting to be a smaller and smaller group with persecution. We'll need to know how to understand, work with each other, and keep genuine Christian love going. (Coming from Reformed side).
I love both these brothers and their relationship. I do wish Dr. Brown would call out blatant heretics more, but i do appreciate his graciousness. He's definitely a brother!
I believe the Bible is very clear about the working of the Holy Spirit and that believers and the Church need to have the power from on high. And that when we go out, there should be signs and miracles follow after us. The cessationists' view of the Scripture is twisting and forcing their interpretation onto the clear meaning of the Word of God. On the other hand, today's Charismatics are clearly doing many things unbiblical. Many of their teachings are not found in the Bible. They also overly focuses on spiritual gifts and prophesy to the point of neglecting basic Biblical teachings and doctrines. And many of the worst examples of Charismatic failures brought "bad names" upon the true works of the Holy Spirit. And it is an excuse why so many fundamentalist refused to be open to the workings of the Holy Spirit. However, that in itself doesn't make sense also. Just because someone misused an automobile, doesn't mean we should stay away from automobiles. Just because someone abused the spiritual gifts and abused gifts of healing, etc, does not mean we should reject all these gifts. In the end, the lack of demonstrations and manifestations of the real power from on high in the Church is really concerning. Without that anointing and power from the Holy Spirit, how can we really do the work God has called us to do as the Church? We would be denying the reality of God while trying to accomplish the work by human means and human devices.
New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below? Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary? What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Watch the TH-cam videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay..
Nick you're doing a great job buddy. Your heart is right. God is going to do great things in you. I usually can't listen do people that call themselves reformed. Within seconds they're always bashing somebody. God is going to use you to change that.
So much good stuff in here. I've followed these two for some time and had hoped to go to the debate they talked about in Charlotte, but we had a winter storm (it was near Valentine's Day whatever year that was) and it simply wasn't wise to get out on the slick roads to drive to Charlotte for the debate. I also appreciated the debate with Sam Waldron on the Dividing Line. Sam was one of my seminary professors in Reformed Baptist Seminary. He taught more than a couple of my classes and I don't remember which one it was, but I did a paper on the book he wrote that outlined his debate material just after the debate. It was helpful to see how he used the arguments in the book in a practical setting. I always appreciate Michael Brown though I would agree with James White on most things. I especially remember the incident with the protesters at his church that he sent food and refreshments out to. What a great example of how to show the love of Christ to our enemies. I'll never forget that. Thanks for having these brothers on.
Both of these brothers seem to have a change of mind just because they got to know the person. I don’t think that should change your doctrine just because he’s a nice guy. The Bible is the sword that divides the truth from the lies, regardless of seeing more of the other person over lunch.
I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. You hit the nail on the head when you brought up ‘Spiritual immaturity.’ Disagreement between these two teachers does not mean that either are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Both expound the Biblical in the way that they see as truthful to their background and point their listeners to Christ (not themselves) for salvation. Both are great to listen to while trying to understand our own walk with Jesus. I also love listening to Justin Peters, believing he is also a brother, but I wish that he would focus on only false prophets who are pulling people away from Christ and replacing Christ with themselves. Yes… he can question certain teachings within the biblical body of Christ, but there is a line that leads to defamation rather than edification.
I sometimes see people attacking Calvinists here on yt, but I never see Calvinists going after Armenians. There's a reason Dr. White doesnt allow comments on his channel.
Finished it. Thoroughly enjoyed it. New increased respect for both. The info on the SDA from James was a new one for me. I've engaged many SDA's and would consider some to be in the same vein as the RCC. There may be some saved but NOT if they believe the doctrinal teachings of their church that are contrary to the Gospel. I was gonna ask James if he's stopped riding his bike but then I heard he's had some recent surgeries. Sorry to hear that and hope nothing to serious. I had forgot that he hunted. Wish we could do that together sometime. There was recently a meme on Twitter that showed a pic of several duo's with an empty spot in the middle asking who you would most like to sit between on an airplane for an 8hr flight. I think these two would be my first choice. LOVED the way Michael responded to Justin Peters. Peters showed his heart AGAIN with the question and Michael's response was superb. It highlighted his hypocrisy and the importance of the subject of this video. Michael's point toward addressing the SUBSTANCE instead of the person is EXACTLY what I've been carping for years. This showed up in the sidebar after finishing another video and I actually am going to check out the channel now because it sounds like one I'd VERY much like to follow. Look forward to seeing those upcoming debates!!
Although I can’t blatantly say Brown is a wolf, he definitely is dancing around the fence and he truly needs to rebuke the heretics in his camp. This whole NAR is a “myth” is blatant sin by omission (James 4:17)
Exactly he says he police’s his own camp but then won’t make a definitive statement on some of the most influential leaders like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland.
When are you going to rebuke the heretics in your own camp? Get that log of your eye then work on his speck. Heresy? Denying the gifts of Holy Spirit is heretical.
Gentlemen, Thankful for your desire for unity. I came from a charismatic background, though now I hold the reformed view as the biblical one. I love my brothers and sisters that still hold the charismatic view and spend time speaking with them about these same issues. I am thankful for your desire to bring this kind of unity among the church despite the opposition you receive. Press on.
We’re so happy to see comments like this. We were really discouraged after the stream yesterday but it’s wonderful to see that there is truly a community that desires charitable debates and discussions in the church.
@@Bibledingers Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up (1 Cor 8:1). Live peaceably with all men so long as it depends on you (Rom 12:18). Be diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit (Eph 4:3). If you believe God is working with these brothers by His Holy Spirit, I don't see why we wouldn't either. Glad to be an encouragement.
What’s wrong with response videos and reviewing? The Bereans were called more noble by Paul for reviewing his gospel. Scripture also tells us we are to test all things. Responding and reviewing isn’t a lack of spiritual maturity- it’s the evidence of it.
It's probably more in how it's done. I agree that response and critique videos are necessary, and James and Michael certainly do that all the time. But some people do it who seem like they don't care if they are slandering or bearing false witness. But hey, either way, Christ's name is proclaimed (hopefully).
I honestly can’t believe Justin Peters wrote in. He literally seems unhinged. Why doesn’t he try promoting the gospel more instead of using all his energy to sew division. Not saying calling out false teachers is wrong, but needing everyone else to also call them out too seems a little unrealistic. I’m so glad for this conversation on unity. We need this more!
25min into this and loving it. One question, however, is lurking. I'd love to know what James says about Kenneth Copeland (and some others) given what he says about it not being his job to kick anyone outta the Kingdom? I wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of what he's saying but there comes a point when one, in my estimation, MUST draw the line.
18:51 Great question! I wish that same respect and defense would be done for Gary DeMar who seeks to be faithfully consistent in his hermeneutical approach to studying God’s Word on the topic of eschatology especially from honorable apologists like Dr. James White (whom I love and respect) who also seeks to do the same thing-especially since recently he has been pushing back hard on all those trying to elevate historical creeds and confessions as the HIGHEST authority for defining orthodoxy (they say they don’t, but in practice they do… just like the Roman Catholic Church says it doesn’t elevate Tradition above Scripture, but in practice, if you follow their logic to the end, they also always do)
Dr. Brown's "criticism" of Justin Peters, who is dedicated to warning people about false teaching and is a true brother in Christ, was delivered with a superficial smile and lacks the highest standard itself!
Why don’t you guys just stop spending your time tearing down other people and go out there and preach the gospel to a lost world. What is so hard about that? Why is there such a desire in you guys to tear down others? That is not Jesus and you guys have to repent.
I'm Not saying Dr Brown doesn't have a good heart but in EVERY conversation he has he lifts himself up with all the words he written or spoken. The only way I can take this is that he wants to be seen as someone important. No one has to hear it every single time!!
@@LoveHimMORE wow thanks for sharing your feelings LOL 😂. I didn't come close to judging him- I made a comment about how on every single video he repeats the same story about everything he's said and done. Also you are misrepresenting what the actual scripture says- which is common for people who actually want to judge others. I do find it sad that so many "Christians" equate Dr Brown as the be all and know all about Scripture and what Gods means. Dr Brown was incorrect in much of his complaints about the book on the NAR, and frankly I won't say he's misspeaking I will say he's lying. Ok yes I guess I just now judged "what" he was saying, but not in accordance with your misunderstanding of the scripture. Do you know that we are actually called to judge each other in the church? That we are called to mark them (show that they are wrong) and then we are told to ignore them. This is also in scripture. Do you believe in that?
I'll be the one to say it: Brown doesn't have a good heart. I don't have a good heart. Nobody in this thread has a good heart. All of us have the Jer. 17:9 heart, which God says is evil and untrustworthy.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 well you got me with the Word on that one!!very true indeed. I should have used different words, but yes you're right-we all have wicked hearts and no on is good. Praise God for His Mercy and Grace and the availability of our forgiveness🙏😭
Thanks for the dialogue. I think there's been plenty of slander, blunders and infiltration into various denominations throughout the ages, and so I agree that the division is largely coming because of the lack of Biblical knowledge and the disdain that the former causes when communication actually occurs. Many people aren't face-2-face when expressing themselves in general. Many people are seeking sources that confirm their biases and technology has been leading many into believing lies spread by the Left Wing narrators. Alot of it is simply intentional and that causes much ignorance and backbiting. Again, thanks for the discussion. God bless.
Loved this talk. I do have some comment. I have listened to some of Browns critics like Justin Peters, Holly Pivic and Chris Rosebrough. They make some good points. Namely, that the Bible commands us to look at a persons fruit, namely their doctrine, to judge if they are a false teacher, not just judge on whether or not we “know them personally” or had lunch together a few times. Secondly, I like James White a lot, but I found his response on this subject lacking. When asked to comment on the accusations that Brown is a “wolf” for some of his accociations and endorsements in The NAR of people like Todd White, Benny Hinn and others, white said it wasn’t his ‘wheelhouse’ and that he didn’t know these people. I would have thought someone as learned and well studied as white would perhaps do some research. Some of the people Brown defends are obvious false teachers. Just one example; he endorsed and did a forward for a book by Kevin Zadai. In it Zadai makes claims about going to heaven many times, and about Jesus appearing at his bed and playing saxophone.
Michael Brown talks out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand he says: “how many times have I corrected charismatics” implying that it’s a large part of his ministry then on the other hand when asked about Kenneth Copeland he says, “calling out charismatics bad theology isn’t my ministry focus”. Huh?!?
He has addressed this multiple times. It’s not his ministry focus, HOWEVER, he does call them out at times. Just because it isn’t the FOCUS of his ministry doesn’t mean he doesn’t occasionally do it. It just isn’t his main focus. It’s not that hard to understand. I say this as someone who disagrees regarding a lot of Dr. Brown’s charismatic stances.
@@KtrippinHeartbreaks it’s not his ministry focus but he wrote a whole book on it and takes the time to debate it without doing any research on the people he’s been consistently asked about for the last decade? K got it.
Well I would have a question for these two is not the Arminiust doctrines of Jesus a different Jesus taught in Calvinism of who and how its the work and power of each in the Trinity alone that saves a sinner? so are they not in reality both preaching a different Christ and a different gospel than the other? In other words do they not differ on the essential doctrines of the Christian faith such as in the tulip and the order and work of salvation by God?
I enjoy this channel, thank you I am so very grateful to the Holy Spirit for keeping me in the Church that Jesus Christ established on Peter the rock, way before the new testament was ever written! Just wondering, Protestants must admit they can never know with infallible certitude what Jesus Christ meant by the "this IS MY BODY ", or who the rock is in Matthew 16, or who the Woman is in Revelation 12,etc, correct? !Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
I have not listened to this yet, though I think I will probably disagree with some of what it said. That is because I am aware that they consider each other brothers. My question is do they both have the correct and same understanding of what the righteousness of God is such that they are no longer ignorant of it but savingly submit to it? What or who alone meets the inflexible standard of God's perfect law and justice AND for whom is that righteousness imputed unto? What are the terms of the covenant and who meets it and who absolutely will receive the benefits of that covenant? Is that righteousness understood to have been made to them by God's will alone such that only God will be gloried in - all human boasting of necessity excluded? Is Christ and His cross mutually held up as the only person and work to be boasted in?? Peace be upon all who truly hold to that rule.
Bridging the gap and not wanting the body of Christ to be divided over secondary issues like "spiritual gifts" etc. is one thing... but trying to unify people when there has been spiritual abuse, dealing with an actual wolf in the body and giving them way to much grace in the "name of unity" is another thing... That is where I think it gets a little murky with Dr. Brown when it comes to things he has spoken into. Sometimes feels like his approach seeks to protect the offender aka the elite over the offended.
I want to add to the question on "scary" demonic stuff and I'll answer from the standpoint of a cessationist (me) who has encountered demonic activity. I'll also have to be intentionally vague as this includes some mission work in sensitive areas. So two contrasting accounts: one of casting out a demon from a house and the other of exceptional demonic oppression. You might think that the oppression was the easy one and casting out a demon was the scary one. Neither are scary. This isn't the movies and we have Christ. The house was of a family who were young in Christ. The mom of the family had grown up in witchcraft and was familiar with demons. Their young daughter was encountering a demon in her room. She had not yet been regenerated and was indeed very frightened. I went in with the elders of the local church and we prayed for God to remove the demon from the house and protect the girl. God answered by removing the demon. She had no problems after that. The demonic oppression involves work with larg-ish teams among a specific people group who are very difficult. Part of the reason they are difficult is because they are demonically oppressed. I don't sense that many of these people are actually possessed, but the proverbial fire from the demons burns hot when we are with them. We do our work in the evenings, prepare in the afternoon, and take the mornings to rest spiritually beforehand. That rest is as important as anything else we do.
@@thebanneredmare9190 These are accounts of different people groups. We've worked with teams in most of the continents. Only Antarctica and Australia are the exceptions.
Brown's response to Justin Peters' question about Wigglesworth was interesting.. and dodgy. He should know about that story concerning Wigglesworth, and he should know Peters wouldn't lie, also. I once bought a book about Wigglesworth, and now it's in the county landfill where it belongs.
I'm going to post links to this everwhere I can I am a Charismatic ex Reformed But it saddens me that the attack brigade will not listen no matter how hard one tries to explain as evidenced in comments already
Michael Brown is SO good at self aggrandizing. I have very rarely ever heard someone do that...he does it very well. Just because he has millions of words in print, doesnt mean he is any more an expert or trustworthy than anybody else.
@prodigalmarine5772 You know all the books and good works the Dr brags on All The Time? 🔥🔥🔥They will not withstand the fire. With all the pride going on, there is no way they'll survive.
I'm Reformed and cessationist so obviously disagree with Dr Brown on a lot but I don't see him as being underhand or disingenuous in any way. The issue I do have with him is the constant 'i know them' defence of certain men... That didn't work out well with Mike Bickle. The reality is that in 50yrs when the likes of Hinn and Copeland are dead, along with everyone that knew them, people will only be left with their teachings. That generation will cringe at a 9 person Godhead teaching etc and such men will be remembered as false teachers.
What's interesting is James White's view of the Trinity is far more Social ( 3 Centers of Consciousness) than Classical which is not orthodox by any means. What is funny is much of Oneness doctrine falls closer to Classical/Latin view of the Trinity than James White does.
I lean towards Calvinism, but I don't understand how Dr. White can claim Sola Scriptura and cessasion simultaneously. I don't understand how that claim can be made.
@@theouterplanet just responded to your email. Would’ve been thrilled if you would’ve understood the entire point of the conversation we were having. Let us know how you’d like your refund sent to you.
@@BibledingersI get it. But if you had Tom Cruise on discussing all his movies, you can’t blame someone asking a question about something else Tom Cruise related.
I like you guys a lot, but it feels a bit that we are looking to give affirmation to people who are in clear error. We must be sure to not give voice to the error. And I'm not saying that ALL of these people are false teachers. Some are deceived, and some are deceiving AND being deceived.
If someone is deceived and they spread their errors, they are by default false teachers. The Bible doesn't make any distinction between the 2 things. Paul clearly teaches in 2 Cor. 11 that such ppl are doing Satan's work, even if they perceive themselves as being Christ's servants. That's what makes them dangerous, and it's the reason why the epistles consistently warn Christians to stay from ppl who preaching error and to scrutinize what they're teaching.
Dr Brown has been getting a lot of flack over the last few months. This felt to me like James White, a friend of his, was brought in to do damage control and give him some good pr. It was for sure James White talking, but he used all the arguments of Dr Brown from the roundtables. Because James knows him, we should forget everything we have heard him say and do and trust James...I found it strange.
"brought in to do damage control?" What are you saying? Does JW strike you as someone who can be commissioned by people like in the Bibledingers channel to do things? Or does JW have an unfair bias towards Brown to speak highly of him even when he sees things he disagrees with about him? I don't get where you come up with these ideas.
@@StEpHeNno22 James White seemed to put his head in the sand whenever something people remotely discuss about Dr Brown came up, yes. He could not speak on NAR or anyone in the movement. He had no meaningful comment to his Sid Roth defense as bad as it was. He glitched out with no response to his gaslighting of Justin Peters questions and spent the first 45 minutes pal-ing around and telling us how hard he had gone after truth with Dr Brown in the past. So yes, I don't pretend to know what James White was doing here. Apparently at least a few other people saw it the same way so I would appreciate a little less incredulity with your response. He had a great shirt though.
@@JBly4 I can believe that you believe what you're saying. That part doesn't surprise me. No incredulity there. As for your response for how you came up with those ideas, I'm talking to you right now, not "everybody that agrees with you." So let's throw the consensus fallacy out the window. Don't you think his tone and choice of rhetoric had at least something to do with the topic they were brought there to discuss? I'm actually not sure you know what that topic was.
@@StEpHeNno22 I don't know who or what you are quoting. Sounds like you didn't read my comment...instead of insults why not just tell me why you think he was here. Because again, the only reason I saw was to lift up what I called a faux sense of unity where James didn't know major aspects of Dr Browns life...if you gained value from this conversation I implore you to share what it was.
@@JBly4 I'll leave my comments here for transparency, but maybe I just misunderstood you or assumed some things about what you meant. If you see past what's perceivable and know there was damage control, fine, idc. If you think I insulted you, idk which part of what I said made you think that, but whatever it was, consider it taken back or rephrased.
Both of you , talking on the two sides of your mouths, Mike talks on two sides of his mouth .I am praying for the two of you , God's richest blessings.
Regarding Mary, the Mother of the Lord, all dogmas are in Holy Scripture! Even many Protestant reformers taught these Marian dogmas! It is only modern day Protestants that deny these Marian Truths! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink and His Queen Mother Mary Immaculate!
@DavidVictoriaReyes-xd9fj Nope, it's because he is the biggest hedger I've ever heard speak. Hedging his bets won't work in front of a Holy and Righteous God.
My issue: We, the commoners, have to go by what people teach and write in their books. We don't have the luxury of getting to know them and sit down and hear how much they love the Lord. When pressed, Michael Brown states, "If you want to know what I believe, read my books." Well, why can't we use the same standard in judging if a teacher is false? If someone is writing things that go against the Bible, and they're preaching things that don't coincide with known doctrine, how can we not label them as a false teacher. Again, we don't have the luxury to sit and pray with them! And please, Dr Brown, STOP GASLIGHTING! When you act all holier than thou, it's not attractive. The way you speak down to your detractors is so underhanded. I pray you can see how utterly aarogant we see you, Dr Brown
Hi. I can hear my mamaw saying one time. There wont be demoninations in heaven. Only christains. She would say this when she would hear somebody talking bad about someone of a different faith or beliefs. She couldnt explain it. Just that she believed jesus died on the cross for her sins and his resurection. She had faith in that. And being baptized. That was all she ever said. She read her bible and would admit she didnt understand it all. Well me neither. But by his grace thru our faith our sins are forgiven. I sometimes worder if sometimes we dont forget that very simple truth. His birth his death his resurection and what that means. I would never tell somebody i disagreed with they were going to hell.
I hate this "If you know him..." or "I talked to him...". We can't go what anyone says in private to Michael Brown - we have to go what they say and do in public.
I don't understand, as a calvinist myself, why Dr James White (who I deeply respect and admire) is so friendly with an arminian such as Dr Brown, and so unfriendly with another calvinist such as Dr Robert Morey. According to the Bible, and to Dr White, Dr Brown doesn't have the right doctrine, and therefore is not a brother in Christ. But Dr Morey had the right doctrine, therefore was a brother in Christ. "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work." 2John9-11
@@Bibledingers Are you aware that the Reformation fought the Catholic church first and foremost about the belief in human free will, that determines the rest of the doctrine of grace ?
Those who are arminian or molinists are Christians and are not outside of the body. The measuring stick in the New Testament on whether or not you are a Christian are a) whether or not you believe in a physical death and resurrection of Jesus, b) your behavior, another words, if you cause division or are unrepentant of sin, c) If you do not love your brother or recognize you are a sinful person, and d) if you want to force people to become Jewish and do the works of the Torah like circumcision in order to become a Christian. To that, extra biblically, we might add some teachings that are very biblical, such as the incarnation, trinity, creation, etc. without which it is no longer Christianity and thus puts you outside of Christianity. Calvinism is a theological system invented in the 16th century. This means that everyone that came before were not Christians if you adhere to such an extreme, narrow view. Which of course is complete nonsense. Whether or not we have free will and how much is not explicit in the biblical text and even if it were it's not a litmus test for whether or not you are a Christian.
@@jaredberryman-hivelead Calvinism is going back to original christianity, and unless you believe Augustine is of the 16th century, as he's the main reference of the calvinists, you're in trouble. The bible is clear about 2 things : sovereignty of God, and free will of man doesn't exist. Like Augustine said against Pelage in the 5th century. Therefore, those who deny the sovereignty of God don't believe in God because they created a false Jesus in their image, which is idolatry. "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son." 2John9
@@jeanrobin1 Augustine/Pelagius debate is about whether or not there is original sin, not whether or not we have free will to choose to follow Jesus. It's a question of whether or not human beings are able to willfully choose not to sin. Obviously, we are not able to do this. This would be the total depravity point, which I agree with. It's not the same debate at all, though. Please cite the chapter and verse where the Bible so clearly teaches that men do not have the free will to choose to follow Jesus that millions who read the Bible every day just so happen to ignore. And bonus points if you can put it in the mouth of Jesus since you referenced the teaching of Christ there in the verse.
Making the society and civilization more moral has nothing to do with salvation or the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It just means more nice moral people that are obeying the law are going to go to hell.😢
Division is and will always be part of the church while we are on earth the Bible shows us that the tares and wheat grow alongside one another.. the fact that you’re trying to unify tares and wheat sheep and goats is FRUITLESS … these two were all about their works and themselves all I heard was “I” . What about all the people been exploited by the very same people these men are defending ? Where is the love and unity in that ????
@@Bibledingers read the word of God, pray for wisdom and discernment, you can't platform everyone just because they say the name of Jesus. We know that theres alot of different Jesus in the world. If you can't even discern the people whom you platform, you not ready to do what you do. I know that ya'll intentions are good, but i see you doing more damage than good. And good intentions are not always Godly, i pray that you heed to my words. God bless
The bizarre thing is that you can let Dr Brown say Sid Roth never said you just make baby sounds he just said you have to talk like a baby. Is that not substance Dr Brown? Stop the gas lighting. And, of course, James White has nothing meaningful to add. I lost respect for James White with this conversation. He said he didnt watch the conversation so he cant speak on it. Earlier he said he doesnt know anything about NAR so he cant comment on that or the people. Then he drops off before responding to the last question. You guys avoided every issue people actually have. Thats neglect. Thats a faux unity.
I love what you guys are doing in terms of unity but please stick to making good content instead of pausing every 3 seconds to speak about the people in the comments as if they are naughty little children. I feel like you should make the content and let the people say what they want to say. And even if it’s rude, you don’t have to keep talking about it. It ruins the live. You know you are speaking about controversial topics and so some will get heated, this is expected . I think the way Brown spoke about Peters, calling him to a “higher standard” on the live was so uncalled for since Justin only asked a simple Question. Brown’s initial response to his question was actually quite good, but he ruined it with what came next toward Peters. The truth is, Brown is sitting comfortably in the midst of many Christians in error or false teachers/prophets, and people are naturally calling him out for this but unfortunately, even with a simple question from Peters, you can see how Brown was triggered to the core. God bless, keep it up
Even though I enjoy this channel and these hosts, the false and fallible teachings of James White, have made me a stronger Catholic Christian! Holy Scripture teaches we must cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and keep the commandments and persevere to the end to be saved! James White says none of this is True! Jesus Christ teaches the bread, WHEN BLESSED, "is My Body ". James White says, "no it isn't!".I pray for James White to leave his fallible Protestant interpretations behind, and let Holy Scripture speak, not himself! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
@@BibledingersThank you so very much, I love you all too! I really enjoy your channel and how you desire the fruits of the Holy Spirit of Kindness and goodness to be reflected in our interactions with one another, thank you! Indeed, even if one has ALL FAITH, but does not LOVE, IT IS USELESS! I would love to be on your channel and present Biblical evidence for Catholic teaching if you are open to it? Thank you for your kindness! God's grace and peace to you always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!!
@@Bibledingers just wondering, would you be open to having me, a Catholic Christian on your channel to present the Biblical evidence for Catholic teaching? God's grace and peace to you always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
@@matthewbroderick6287But Friend , If You read the Whole Chapter. You will Understand,it's Having Spiritual Meaning and Not what Catholics teaches. I one Was having the Question you are holding, But I read Bible and Came to Know , Catholics doctrine about The Supper is Unbiblical. I Am Protestant By Grace of God. You please read that Chapter. May God remove out of those Unbiblical doctrines of Catholics.
@Spark12395 Lol!! Too funny!! Unbiblical?🤣 Catholic Christians agree with Jesus Christ when Jesus teaches that the bread, WHEN BLESSED, "is My Body ". Fallible Protestants like yourself say to Jesus Christ, "no it isn't ". Jesus Christ teaches "My Flesh is True food and Blood true drink ". Fallible Protestants like yourself say to Jesus Christ, "no it isn't! You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
I'm a charismatic on melatonin lol I find both Dr. White and Dr. Brown to be beneficial to my growth. While both are a bit deeper in their camps than I like and have stances I don't agree with, the fact that they are brothers in arms, genuine friends, and actual learn from each other is encouraging to my soul. They are a great example of Christian unity, and both men have earned even more of my respect.
So grateful for your comment and couldn’t agree more!
Love brother Michael Brown and brother James White, thank you for having them on
Thanks so much for watching!
Why doesn't White show this face to Leighton Flowers? Is it because Flowers debunks Calvnism?
@jessetoler8171 I'm not in contact with James White so how would I know?
Dr Brown is the real deal, loves God with His whole heart. Too many Heresy hunters out there with No love for the Church that Jesus Christ loves. Good grief does anyone have everything perfect? I disagree with Dr Brown on several issues eschatology Israel but he’s a great example to Follow.
I read "How Saved are We?" by Dr Brown early on in my Christian walk and was challenged and blessed by it. I started out Pentecostal and became Reformed although I am not a cessationist. Dr White is often accused of lacking grace but I don't accept that. Also, "The God Who Justifies" may be the best book written on the subject of justification. I have also remained a big supporter of Israel and a historic Premillennialist and I think every Christian should read "Our Hands Are Stained With Blood" by Dr Brown.
Thank you for this. I am an inbetweener. Not a Charismatic (though I listen to Dr. Brown regularly and agree with so much on the other subjects). Dr. White on the other hand I have avoided. I am not reformed and found his hard line offensive to the universal church body that agree on the essentials,. But this dialogue has changed my mind. So many in his camp are so quick to use the heretic label, calling me unsaved for my theological differences, it turns me off. I will now consider listening to Dr. White. I dont mind hearing other views. It helps me look more closely at scripture.
@@johno8886 yesss!!!!!!
I highly recommend Mike Winger for someone in your position :)
Jacob Prasch.
Listen to a conversation with James and Michael and compare this to how James interacts with Leighton Flowers. Worlds of difference although Michael and Leighton are quite close soteriologically.
@@b3lev3rg0d4Leighton is unscrupulous and has an agenda
These two men have been one of the best modern examples of Christian unity. Christ's bride has been and continues to be beaten up by unnecessary sectarianism. Convictions of faith, when sincerely prompted by scripture, should be held tightly, but always in conjunction with grace & charity for other followers of Christ who might see things a little differently. Thanks for hosting both gentlemen and giving them an opportunity to share their testimonies in this area.
Tares stick together against the Free-Gracers. Tares are always looking at their works, fruits, life to prove or give evidence of God's salvation and not believing in and on the promise of God that if you trust Jesus as God and Savior for everlasting life you will be saved forever.
I loved this conversation. I am Reformed and a cessationist. And I have had my concerns and critiques of Dr. Brown over the last few years I’ve known of him. However, the more I see of him, or listen to what he actually says, the more I feel for him and sympathize with his overwhelming desire for unity. Now, I think he can go too far and can seemingly be naive regarding certain things and people, but like Dr. White, I believe Dr. Brown is as much a Brother in Christ as I am. And to be perfectly frank, I hope to have even a fraction of the sincerity, passion, love, grace and Biblical understanding that Dr. Brown has. I don’t have to agree with even half of what he says, to see he is obviously a man who has a tremendous heart for God and for God’s people. For anyone who may disagree with me, ask me what I think about someone like Bill Johnson or Steven Furtick. I’m no one’s lap dog. I just see a sincere man who loves Christ and whom I disagree with on several very important, secondary issues.
Is furtick the guy that kicks old ladies in the face to heal them? I can't remember that dude's name
Thanks guys for having this dialogue! Loved it, I've been a years-long fan of both Dr. White and Dr. Brown. There are plenty of us who, like you, are starved for mature, respectful conversations. Thanks for doing your part to foster a better way.
So glad to hear it! We hope we’ll be able to serve you well.
Awe! 😢 I love both of these brothers so much. I am a Calvinist, and I believe all the 5 points, and when I see this brother, Dr. Brown holding back tears in pointing out that issue made my heart go out for him. You can see his love for Christ and his love for Peters in his eyes. Surely he could care a less about what people say about him. So let that be your lens when seeing his broken heart… that’s all I got to say.
I'm just curious, why would you think God sovereignly decreed for some of his children to not know the real truth about his sovereignty, like Dr. Brown?
I’m not calvinist, I’m closer to Wesleyan Arminianism, but I consider Calvinist my brothers. I understand we have our own convictions in our theology but we are still brothers and sisters in Christ. And I feel like most people that fight with one another is because they don’t understand each others systematic theology, and Caricature each other. We are actually more alike than what we think. God bless you all.
@@Dizernershow us the scripture that claims that all humans are his children? I was sure that scripture makes the claim that only a small group are Gods children. John 1: 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
How about John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
So which scripture that claims that God says all humanity are his children? Dr Brown believes in an another gospel, he believes that a believers salvation is not eternal but conditional, he is closer to Roman Catholicism than historical Protestantism, he also holds to the doctrine of Molina a false teacher Roman Catholic leader.
@@thereisnopandemic Do you think only Calvinists are saved? Most Calvinists do not believe that, so unless you think those Calvinists are also lost, you have run into the same problem.
@@Dizerner good question, I don’t think that. Not everyone is a child of God. “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
John 1:12-13 only those born of God, by God’s decision are His children, and they receive Him as an outflow of that work of God. “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.”
John 6:39 “saying, “I will proclaim Your name to My brethren, In the midst of the congregation I will sing Your praise.” And again, “I will put My trust in Him.” And again, “Behold, I and the children whom God has given Me.” Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,”
Hebrews 2:12-14 only those who are given by the Father to the Son are children, and notice the words here- “therefore since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise partook of flesh and blood”. This tells us that they were seen as children before the incarnation of Christ, before He “partook of flesh and blood”.
When you spend a significant amount of time away from TH-cam and then return, the overwhelming amount of unnecessary hate, division, slander, and sensationalism is painfully obvious. Thanks for bucking that trend, Bibledingers.
Some people get mad because you aren't making enough people mad. LOL! I enjoyed this conversation. :)
The only mad comment i saw was the top voted comment slandering brown
Loved this video so much. God bless both of these apologists, and this channel. Thank you!
This was a great talk on unity in the body! I’ve been hyper-charismatic/pentecostal, reformed Baptist cessationist, now a continuationist/charismatic. I see things from both sides and loved the dialogue. Don’t love the comments in the chat so much. God Bless @bibledingers for promoting unity. 🙏🏻❤️
Sounds like you are investigating everything (like me😉). I think you could probably add “noble Berean” to your CV. Recently, I had to do a deep dive on Catholicism, latter-day Saints, and new apostolic reformation. I also had to educate myself on critical race theory, progressive Christianity, deconstruction, how New Age and new thought are invading the orthodox protestant denominations, and the. Craziness going on in the southern Baptist convention.😵💫🫣🤦♀️ I like the motto of one of the programs I follow which says “comparing what people are doing in the name of God to the word of God.” there can be no unity unless there is agreement on the truth. our main job as Christians is to help people answer the dilemma of life’s most critical question which is where will you spend eternity? Have you heard the bad news? There’s nothing you can do to help yourself. Have you heard the good news?
I was just thinking about your two guest and was wondering if they continued their friendship, This video has confirmed this for me. I’m thankful and encouraged after viewing this. Have been discouraged over the the disunity and criticisms that I have seen over secondary issues. Have truly been refreshed after seeing these two men together. God has truly used them as a team that contended for the truth as they debated as a team.
It was wonderfully encouraging to us as well
Seems no one in this comments section has the grace God afforded them. These men are about as far from wolves as you could be and in they may have their missteps, but you might need to check yourself before God does. This is how men in the Kingdom actually interact.
Seems you also lack grace. Or is it absolutely impossible that the comments are pointing something legitimate out. Never called either one a wolf. There was zero iron sharpening iron. How could their be when everything is avoided. That is the criticism from the comment section. Perhaps dwell on it instead of casting your own stone.
I don't know bibledingers. This is my first time listening to them. They are only interested in liking comments like yours instead of replying to actual responses to their videos. Would go a long way to satiate comments on how I saw the video than to just claim theirs lack of grace. That's the crime.
Calvinists aren't in the Kingdom. Being gracious is one thing but accepting people teaching satanic lies about God is completely different.
@@PMD41 False, this is how you completely avoid knowledge of anything in order to retain a carnal friendship.
@@r.rodriguez4991 come on guys salvation isn’t about God choosing and how he goes about redeeming individuals as in Calvinism
Calvinist believe Christ died for their sins and upon that is where their faith lies for their sins
If you believe you are in the Kingdom already, you ARE a wolf because not even Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in the Kingdom of God yet. Heb. 11 is clear on the fact that NONE of the deceased followers of God have inherited eternal life. They won't be in the Kingdom of God until Christ returns and raises them to eternal life with their glorified spirit bodies. That is why Christ told the religious elites that the patriarchs _will be there_ .
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your kindness! We really appreciate you!
Unity must never be at the expense of essential truths. Biblical unity is not being buddies with anyone that slaps on the label "Christian," it is unity in the Spirit.
Different people draw those essential lines in different places, so there will never be a time that all Christians can be in complete unity, because some are in sin.
@@Dizerner You notice it's the people with the aberrant doctrine that want to sing kumbaya🤔
I suggest you open a bible and look at the 1st century. There was total uniformity in doctrines and customs, and God's apostle Paul said there is to be NO SCHISM". That sounds exactly what it reads like. 2 Jhn 9 says whoever is out of alignment with Christ's doctrines have _no_ relationship with God to speak of. Ppl say this stuff to justify the fact that they're out of alignment with Christ's doctrines and the commanded customs. That's why they're heretics.
Awesome stuff appreciate you guys
This was great. Loved this conversation and the unity displayed. Well done Bible dingers!
Thanks so much my friend. We’re not giving up on our call to unify the church!
it would be helpful not to release content with strawman arguments ;)
@@david8252 we don’t censor our content. We have incredible respect for our audience. They’re intelligent and can decide for themselves who makes biblical arguments.
If you want doctored content, then you’re going to have to head over to mainstream media.
@@Bibledingers that was meant for Ruslan lol, saw some of his remarks against cessationism, and they were out of context, strawman arguments. Do you believe that you may be putting some defenseless sheep at risk, by giving voice to these erroneous ways of teaching? Notice I didn't say false to be fair.
We are longtime cessationists and have nothing but love for Ruslan. He’s the real deal.
This was a great conversation. I love both of these brothers in Christ and have grown closer to the Lord as a result of both of these men's ministries. Glad to see this friendship.
So great to hear. Thanks so much for watching!
Dr. Michael Brown, who you come along side with is important. Let's not push that to the side.
Although they are friendly with each other, what divides them and what divides every other denomination is the differences in their doctrine.
Division in the church is unavoidable, however, this stream shows we could have loving, friendly division…
Our prayer should be for the return of Christ so that we can finally find the unity that our soul’s desires!
🙏🙏🙏
James White is very gracious 😁
We loved his tone. This was very encouraging.
Thank you for having these discussions. They are informative and I think it's important we do all we can to keep fellowship as those in Christ. It's absolutely true that we are getting to be a smaller and smaller group with persecution.
We'll need to know how to understand, work with each other, and keep genuine Christian love going. (Coming from Reformed side).
So glad to see comments like this! Thanks so much for watching!
I love both these brothers and their relationship. I do wish Dr. Brown would call out blatant heretics more, but i do appreciate his graciousness. He's definitely a brother!
Thank you for watching!
We gotta keep doing this.
So glad you enjoyed it!
I believe the Bible is very clear about the working of the Holy Spirit and that believers and the Church need to have the power from on high. And that when we go out, there should be signs and miracles follow after us. The cessationists' view of the Scripture is twisting and forcing their interpretation onto the clear meaning of the Word of God.
On the other hand, today's Charismatics are clearly doing many things unbiblical. Many of their teachings are not found in the Bible. They also overly focuses on spiritual gifts and prophesy to the point of neglecting basic Biblical teachings and doctrines. And many of the worst examples of Charismatic failures brought "bad names" upon the true works of the Holy Spirit. And it is an excuse why so many fundamentalist refused to be open to the workings of the Holy Spirit. However, that in itself doesn't make sense also. Just because someone misused an automobile, doesn't mean we should stay away from automobiles. Just because someone abused the spiritual gifts and abused gifts of healing, etc, does not mean we should reject all these gifts.
In the end, the lack of demonstrations and manifestations of the real power from on high in the Church is really concerning. Without that anointing and power from the Holy Spirit, how can we really do the work God has called us to do as the Church? We would be denying the reality of God while trying to accomplish the work by human means and human devices.
New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below?
Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary?
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary.
God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9.
What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below.
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)
We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Watch the TH-cam videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay..
Nick you're doing a great job buddy. Your heart is right. God is going to do great things in you.
I usually can't listen do people that call themselves reformed. Within seconds they're always bashing somebody.
God is going to use you to change that.
Dr Brown my hero always thank you sir ❤
I have benefited so much listening to these brothers discuss and debate so many biblical doctrines. Such a blessing.
Agreed!
So much good stuff in here. I've followed these two for some time and had hoped to go to the debate they talked about in Charlotte, but we had a winter storm (it was near Valentine's Day whatever year that was) and it simply wasn't wise to get out on the slick roads to drive to Charlotte for the debate.
I also appreciated the debate with Sam Waldron on the Dividing Line. Sam was one of my seminary professors in Reformed Baptist Seminary. He taught more than a couple of my classes and I don't remember which one it was, but I did a paper on the book he wrote that outlined his debate material just after the debate. It was helpful to see how he used the arguments in the book in a practical setting.
I always appreciate Michael Brown though I would agree with James White on most things. I especially remember the incident with the protesters at his church that he sent food and refreshments out to. What a great example of how to show the love of Christ to our enemies. I'll never forget that.
Thanks for having these brothers on.
So glad you enjoyed it. Wonderful stories about a couple wonderful men.
As a reformed Baptist, I appreciate what you guys are doing and have subscribed to your channel. We need more of this within the body of Christ
So great to hear! We knew there were others out there like us!
My favorite two apologist! I love both these guys.
You guys are pretty cool. Thanks for being kind.
You’re even cooler
Appreciate what you are bringing to the discussion!
Thanks so much for watching!
I love this video! Thank you, @Bibledingers
So glad you liked it!
Love the spirit of this channel. ❤
So glad for your encouragement. It’s much needed after getting beat up for a couple days!🫱🏻🫲🏼
Both of these brothers seem to have a change of mind just because they got to know the person. I don’t think that should change your doctrine just because he’s a nice guy. The Bible is the sword that divides the truth from the lies, regardless of seeing more of the other person over lunch.
I love this channel God bless your endeavors Bible dingers 🙏🏻💯
Very encouraging. Thank you so much!
As a soft cavinist and fan of both of these men, thank you!
No, thank YOU!
I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. You hit the nail on the head when you brought up ‘Spiritual immaturity.’
Disagreement between these two teachers does not mean that either are wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Both expound the Biblical in the way that they see as truthful to their background and point their listeners to Christ (not themselves) for salvation.
Both are great to listen to while trying to understand our own walk with Jesus.
I also love listening to Justin Peters, believing he is also a brother, but I wish that he would focus on only false prophets who are pulling people away from Christ and replacing Christ with themselves. Yes… he can question certain teachings within the biblical body of Christ, but there is a line that leads to defamation rather than edification.
So glad you enjoyed! Thanks for watching!
I sometimes see people attacking Calvinists here on yt, but I never see Calvinists going after Armenians. There's a reason Dr. White doesnt allow comments on his channel.
"I won't tell people that my students were praying in tongues over you!" 😂😂
@@JoshxDude92 💀💀
Finished it. Thoroughly enjoyed it. New increased respect for both. The info on the SDA from James was a new one for me. I've engaged many SDA's and would consider some to be in the same vein as the RCC. There may be some saved but NOT if they believe the doctrinal teachings of their church that are contrary to the Gospel.
I was gonna ask James if he's stopped riding his bike but then I heard he's had some recent surgeries. Sorry to hear that and hope nothing to serious. I had forgot that he hunted. Wish we could do that together sometime.
There was recently a meme on Twitter that showed a pic of several duo's with an empty spot in the middle asking who you would most like to sit between on an airplane for an 8hr flight. I think these two would be my first choice.
LOVED the way Michael responded to Justin Peters. Peters showed his heart AGAIN with the question and Michael's response was superb. It highlighted his hypocrisy and the importance of the subject of this video. Michael's point toward addressing the SUBSTANCE instead of the person is EXACTLY what I've been carping for years.
This showed up in the sidebar after finishing another video and I actually am going to check out the channel now because it sounds like one I'd VERY much like to follow. Look forward to seeing those upcoming debates!!
So grateful you’re enjoying the channel! Thanks so much for watching!
Although I can’t blatantly say Brown is a wolf, he definitely is dancing around the fence and he truly needs to rebuke the heretics in his camp. This whole NAR is a “myth” is blatant sin by omission (James 4:17)
Exactly he says he police’s his own camp but then won’t make a definitive statement on some of the most influential leaders like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland.
Let me say it for you. Brown is a wolf!!! Mark and avoid!
@@brianmiller3287 are you a reformer or Calvinist?
@@brianmiller3287 wow such an omniscient human being. good on you
When are you going to rebuke the heretics in your own camp? Get that log of your eye then work on his speck. Heresy? Denying the gifts of Holy Spirit is heretical.
Gentlemen,
Thankful for your desire for unity. I came from a charismatic background, though now I hold the reformed view as the biblical one. I love my brothers and sisters that still hold the charismatic view and spend time speaking with them about these same issues. I am thankful for your desire to bring this kind of unity among the church despite the opposition you receive. Press on.
We’re so happy to see comments like this. We were really discouraged after the stream yesterday but it’s wonderful to see that there is truly a community that desires charitable debates and discussions in the church.
@@Bibledingers Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up (1 Cor 8:1). Live peaceably with all men so long as it depends on you (Rom 12:18). Be diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit (Eph 4:3). If you believe God is working with these brothers by His Holy Spirit, I don't see why we wouldn't either. Glad to be an encouragement.
Nah they're false and need lovingly introduced to God & truth
What’s wrong with response videos and reviewing? The Bereans were called more noble by Paul for reviewing his gospel. Scripture also tells us we are to test all things. Responding and reviewing isn’t a lack of spiritual maturity- it’s the evidence of it.
Couldn't agree more.
It's probably more in how it's done. I agree that response and critique videos are necessary, and James and Michael certainly do that all the time. But some people do it who seem like they don't care if they are slandering or bearing false witness. But hey, either way, Christ's name is proclaimed (hopefully).
I honestly can’t believe Justin Peters wrote in. He literally seems unhinged. Why doesn’t he try promoting the gospel more instead of using all his energy to sew division.
Not saying calling out false teachers is wrong, but needing everyone else to also call them out too seems a little unrealistic.
I’m so glad for this conversation on unity. We need this more!
25min into this and loving it. One question, however, is lurking. I'd love to know what James says about Kenneth Copeland (and some others) given what he says about it not being his job to kick anyone outta the Kingdom? I wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of what he's saying but there comes a point when one, in my estimation, MUST draw the line.
He is quite clear that KC is a wolf
@@redfrozenseven - Where? And how does that fit with what he says here?
Seek first to understand then be understood. Keep striving for unification brothers.
Thank you so much my friend!
@@Kingofkings559 There will never be unification as long as people think it's just fine to lie on God.
18:51 Great question! I wish that same respect and defense would be done for Gary DeMar who seeks to be faithfully consistent in his hermeneutical approach to studying God’s Word on the topic of eschatology especially from honorable apologists like Dr. James White (whom I love and respect) who also seeks to do the same thing-especially since recently he has been pushing back hard on all those trying to elevate historical creeds and confessions as the HIGHEST authority for defining orthodoxy (they say they don’t, but in practice they do… just like the Roman Catholic Church says it doesn’t elevate Tradition above Scripture, but in practice, if you follow their logic to the end, they also always do)
Dr. Brown's "criticism" of Justin Peters, who is dedicated to warning people about false teaching and is a true brother in Christ, was delivered with a superficial smile and lacks the highest standard itself!
Why don’t you guys just stop spending your time tearing down other people and go out there and preach the gospel to a lost world. What is so hard about that? Why is there such a desire in you guys to tear down others? That is not Jesus and you guys have to repent.
Great question Dr.Brown at 1:10:00 I was wondering the same thing before watching the video
Click bait . there looking for views not unity
I'm
Not saying Dr Brown doesn't have a good heart but in EVERY conversation he has he lifts himself up with all the words he written or spoken. The only way I can take this is that he wants to be seen as someone important. No one has to hear it every single time!!
🎯
"Not saying you're fat but.... you are a big tub of lard."
@@LoveHimMORE wow thanks for sharing your feelings LOL 😂. I didn't come close to judging him- I made a comment about how on every single video he repeats the same story about everything he's said and done. Also you are misrepresenting what the actual scripture says- which is common for people who actually want to judge others. I do find it sad that so many "Christians" equate Dr Brown as the be all and know all about Scripture and what Gods means. Dr Brown was incorrect in much of his complaints about the book on the NAR, and frankly I won't say he's misspeaking I will say he's lying. Ok yes I guess I just now judged "what" he was saying, but not in accordance with your misunderstanding of the scripture. Do you know that we are actually called to judge each other in the church? That we are called to mark them (show that they are wrong) and then we are told to ignore them. This is also in scripture. Do you believe in that?
I'll be the one to say it: Brown doesn't have a good heart. I don't have a good heart. Nobody in this thread has a good heart. All of us have the Jer. 17:9 heart, which God says is evil and untrustworthy.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 well you got me with the Word on that one!!very true indeed. I should have used different words, but yes you're right-we all have wicked hearts and no on is good. Praise God for His Mercy and Grace and the availability of our forgiveness🙏😭
Hosts: “we promote unity”
Audience: “Allow me to introduce myself”
@@timothyagner9015 💀💀💀💀💀
Lol
Thanks for the dialogue.
I think there's been plenty of slander, blunders and infiltration into various denominations throughout the ages, and so I agree that the division is largely coming because of the lack of Biblical knowledge and the disdain that the former causes when communication actually occurs.
Many people aren't face-2-face when expressing themselves in general. Many people are seeking sources that confirm their biases and technology has been leading many into believing lies spread by the Left Wing narrators. Alot of it is simply intentional and that causes much ignorance and backbiting.
Again, thanks for the discussion. God bless.
Thanks so much for watching!
Loved this talk. I do have some comment. I have listened to some of Browns critics like Justin Peters, Holly Pivic and Chris Rosebrough. They make some good points. Namely, that the Bible commands us to look at a persons fruit, namely their doctrine, to judge if they are a false teacher, not just judge on whether or not we “know them personally” or had lunch together a few times. Secondly, I like James White a lot, but I found his response on this subject lacking. When asked to comment on the accusations that Brown is a “wolf” for some of his accociations and endorsements in The NAR of people like Todd White, Benny Hinn and others, white said it wasn’t his ‘wheelhouse’ and that he didn’t know these people. I would have thought someone as learned and well studied as white would perhaps do some research. Some of the people Brown defends are obvious false teachers. Just one example; he endorsed and did a forward for a book by Kevin Zadai. In it Zadai makes claims about going to heaven many times, and about Jesus appearing at his bed and playing saxophone.
Michael Brown talks out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand he says: “how many times have I corrected charismatics” implying that it’s a large part of his ministry then on the other hand when asked about Kenneth Copeland he says, “calling out charismatics bad theology isn’t my ministry focus”. Huh?!?
He has addressed this multiple times. It’s not his ministry focus, HOWEVER, he does call them out at times. Just because it isn’t the FOCUS of his ministry doesn’t mean he doesn’t occasionally do it. It just isn’t his main focus. It’s not that hard to understand. I say this as someone who disagrees regarding a lot of Dr. Brown’s charismatic stances.
@@KtrippinHeartbreaks it’s not his ministry focus but he wrote a whole book on it and takes the time to debate it without doing any research on the people he’s been consistently asked about for the last decade? K got it.
Nasty Taylor. Won’t be getting the taylorbible translation….. wrong spirit
@@ntlearning just stating facts over here.
Well I would have a question for these two is not the Arminiust doctrines of Jesus a different Jesus taught in Calvinism of who and how its the work and power of each in the Trinity alone that saves a sinner? so are they not in reality both preaching a different Christ and a different gospel than the other? In other words do they not differ on the essential doctrines of the Christian faith such as in the tulip and the order and work of salvation by God?
I enjoy this channel, thank you I am so very grateful to the Holy Spirit for keeping me in the Church that Jesus Christ established on Peter the rock, way before the new testament was ever written! Just wondering, Protestants must admit they can never know with infallible certitude what Jesus Christ meant by the "this IS MY BODY ", or who the rock is in Matthew 16, or who the Woman is in Revelation 12,etc, correct? !Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
I have not listened to this yet, though I think I will probably disagree with some of what it said. That is because I am aware that they consider each other brothers. My question is do they both have the correct and same understanding of what the righteousness of God is such that they are no longer ignorant of it but savingly submit to it? What or who alone meets the inflexible standard of God's perfect law and justice AND for whom is that righteousness imputed unto? What are the terms of the covenant and who meets it and who absolutely will receive the benefits of that covenant? Is that righteousness understood to have been made to them by God's will alone such that only God will be gloried in - all human boasting of necessity excluded? Is Christ and His cross mutually held up as the only person and work to be boasted in?? Peace be upon all who truly hold to that rule.
Bridging the gap and not wanting the body of Christ to be divided over secondary issues like "spiritual gifts" etc. is one thing... but trying to unify people when there has been spiritual abuse, dealing with an actual wolf in the body and giving them way to much grace in the "name of unity" is another thing... That is where I think it gets a little murky with Dr. Brown when it comes to things he has spoken into. Sometimes feels like his approach seeks to protect the offender aka the elite over the offended.
Name ONE theological stance of DrBrown that is worthy of being called a wolf.
@@DavidVictoriaReyes-xd9fj I did not call him a wolf or say anything about his "theological" stance?
Yes, read/study your Bible then listen to debate but not in the opposite order
When are you all going to have Gavin Ortlund on? Truth Unites has a similar mission as you all.
We actually made a couple attempts but haven’t yet been able to make contact :(
I want to add to the question on "scary" demonic stuff and I'll answer from the standpoint of a cessationist (me) who has encountered demonic activity. I'll also have to be intentionally vague as this includes some mission work in sensitive areas.
So two contrasting accounts: one of casting out a demon from a house and the other of exceptional demonic oppression. You might think that the oppression was the easy one and casting out a demon was the scary one. Neither are scary. This isn't the movies and we have Christ.
The house was of a family who were young in Christ. The mom of the family had grown up in witchcraft and was familiar with demons. Their young daughter was encountering a demon in her room. She had not yet been regenerated and was indeed very frightened. I went in with the elders of the local church and we prayed for God to remove the demon from the house and protect the girl. God answered by removing the demon. She had no problems after that.
The demonic oppression involves work with larg-ish teams among a specific people group who are very difficult. Part of the reason they are difficult is because they are demonically oppressed. I don't sense that many of these people are actually possessed, but the proverbial fire from the demons burns hot when we are with them. We do our work in the evenings, prepare in the afternoon, and take the mornings to rest spiritually beforehand. That rest is as important as anything else we do.
What is the specific people group you are talking about?
@@thebanneredmare9190 These are accounts of different people groups. We've worked with teams in most of the continents. Only Antarctica and Australia are the exceptions.
Oh how cute James White holding hands with his looney tunes buddy Michael Brown
Brown's response to Justin Peters' question about Wigglesworth was interesting.. and dodgy. He should know about that story concerning Wigglesworth, and he should know Peters wouldn't lie, also. I once bought a book about Wigglesworth, and now it's in the county landfill where it belongs.
I'm going to post links to this everwhere I can
I am a Charismatic ex Reformed
But it saddens me that the attack brigade will not listen no matter how hard one tries to explain
as evidenced in comments already
Thank you so much John! Would love to make it out to NZ one day 🔥
Michael Brown is SO good at self aggrandizing. I have very rarely ever heard someone do that...he does it very well. Just because he has millions of words in print, doesnt mean he is any more an expert or trustworthy than anybody else.
@prodigalmarine5772 You know all the books and good works the Dr brags on All The Time? 🔥🔥🔥They will not withstand the fire. With all the pride going on, there is no way they'll survive.
This was a blessing to watch. Amazing
I'm Reformed and cessationist so obviously disagree with Dr Brown on a lot but I don't see him as being underhand or disingenuous in any way.
The issue I do have with him is the constant 'i know them' defence of certain men... That didn't work out well with Mike Bickle.
The reality is that in 50yrs when the likes of Hinn and Copeland are dead, along with everyone that knew them, people will only be left with their teachings. That generation will cringe at a 9 person Godhead teaching etc and such men will be remembered as false teachers.
Hey James, would ya ever Hug Leighton Flowers?? 😂😂😂😂
I don’t think I could!
Can we stop calling everyone a false teacher we simply disagree with?
Couldn’t agree more
What's interesting is James White's view of the Trinity is far more Social ( 3 Centers of Consciousness) than Classical which is not orthodox by any means. What is funny is much of Oneness doctrine falls closer to Classical/Latin view of the Trinity than James White does.
Michael Brown's face here closely resembles the image of the face on the shroud of Turin, to me. ha
Subscribed... Also.
Will check you guys out more
I lean towards Calvinism, but I don't understand how Dr. White can claim Sola Scriptura and cessasion simultaneously. I don't understand how that claim can be made.
Dude...I paid for 2 superchats and you ignored the last....Dr Brown NEVER answered the question about his son in law Ryan Bruss.....you guys are wrong
@@theouterplanet just responded to your email. Would’ve been thrilled if you would’ve understood the entire point of the conversation we were having. Let us know how you’d like your refund sent to you.
Yes entire the point of this conversation was to ignore valid criticism of someone who promotes false teaching. You didn’t get the memo
@@matthewcheevers4861sorry
@@Bibledingersno email. Yes. Send the refund
@@BibledingersI get it. But if you had Tom Cruise on discussing all his movies, you can’t blame someone asking a question about something else Tom Cruise related.
I like you guys a lot, but it feels a bit that we are looking to give affirmation to people who are in clear error. We must be sure to not give voice to the error. And I'm not saying that ALL of these people are false teachers. Some are deceived, and some are deceiving AND being deceived.
If someone is deceived and they spread their errors, they are by default false teachers. The Bible doesn't make any distinction between the 2 things. Paul clearly teaches in 2 Cor. 11 that such ppl are doing Satan's work, even if they perceive themselves as being Christ's servants. That's what makes them dangerous, and it's the reason why the epistles consistently warn Christians to stay from ppl who preaching error and to scrutinize what they're teaching.
Dr Brown has been getting a lot of flack over the last few months. This felt to me like James White, a friend of his, was brought in to do damage control and give him some good pr. It was for sure James White talking, but he used all the arguments of Dr Brown from the roundtables. Because James knows him, we should forget everything we have heard him say and do and trust James...I found it strange.
"brought in to do damage control?" What are you saying? Does JW strike you as someone who can be commissioned by people like in the Bibledingers channel to do things? Or does JW have an unfair bias towards Brown to speak highly of him even when he sees things he disagrees with about him? I don't get where you come up with these ideas.
@@StEpHeNno22 James White seemed to put his head in the sand whenever something people remotely discuss about Dr Brown came up, yes. He could not speak on NAR or anyone in the movement. He had no meaningful comment to his Sid Roth defense as bad as it was. He glitched out with no response to his gaslighting of Justin Peters questions and spent the first 45 minutes pal-ing around and telling us how hard he had gone after truth with Dr Brown in the past. So yes, I don't pretend to know what James White was doing here. Apparently at least a few other people saw it the same way so I would appreciate a little less incredulity with your response. He had a great shirt though.
@@JBly4 I can believe that you believe what you're saying. That part doesn't surprise me. No incredulity there.
As for your response for how you came up with those ideas, I'm talking to you right now, not "everybody that agrees with you." So let's throw the consensus fallacy out the window.
Don't you think his tone and choice of rhetoric had at least something to do with the topic they were brought there to discuss? I'm actually not sure you know what that topic was.
@@StEpHeNno22 I don't know who or what you are quoting. Sounds like you didn't read my comment...instead of insults why not just tell me why you think he was here. Because again, the only reason I saw was to lift up what I called a faux sense of unity where James didn't know major aspects of Dr Browns life...if you gained value from this conversation I implore you to share what it was.
@@JBly4 I'll leave my comments here for transparency, but maybe I just misunderstood you or assumed some things about what you meant.
If you see past what's perceivable and know there was damage control, fine, idc.
If you think I insulted you, idk which part of what I said made you think that, but whatever it was, consider it taken back or rephrased.
Both of you , talking on the two sides of your mouths, Mike talks on two sides of his mouth .I am praying for the two of you , God's richest blessings.
Regarding Mary, the Mother of the Lord, all dogmas are in Holy Scripture! Even many Protestant reformers taught these Marian dogmas! It is only modern day Protestants that deny these Marian Truths! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink and His Queen Mother Mary Immaculate!
Everyone that dislikes DrBrown is literally just because he’s a charismatic.
@DavidVictoriaReyes-xd9fj Nope, it's because he is the biggest hedger I've ever heard speak. Hedging his bets won't work in front of a Holy and Righteous God.
I love yalls goal for this channel, but it saddens me seeing some of these comments. Keep trying you got a sub from me
You should react to the comments then. No one hates the goal, the execution of the guests conversation was poor though. That's the argument.
Thanks so much for watching!
My issue: We, the commoners, have to go by what people teach and write in their books. We don't have the luxury of getting to know them and sit down and hear how much they love the Lord. When pressed, Michael Brown states, "If you want to know what I believe, read my books." Well, why can't we use the same standard in judging if a teacher is false? If someone is writing things that go against the Bible, and they're preaching things that don't coincide with known doctrine, how can we not label them as a false teacher. Again, we don't have the luxury to sit and pray with them! And please, Dr Brown, STOP GASLIGHTING! When you act all holier than thou, it's not attractive. The way you speak down to your detractors is so underhanded. I pray you can see how utterly aarogant we see you, Dr Brown
Well said, Debbie 👏🏿👏🏿. We as commoners are not allowed to have a voice to speak on things we are commanded to do apparently to these people smh 💯
@@Sisisi6392 Thank you💗I was wondering if I was the only one who saw the complete double standard. Thank you!
I don't find it arrogant at all. Public Christians don't have to respond to everybody that finds an issue with them. Sorry.
@@Michael_Chandler_Keaton Did you listen near the end???
We, the commoners, have to go by the Bible. Not any man’s book. 🫶🏼
Hi. I can hear my mamaw saying one time. There wont be demoninations in heaven. Only christains. She would say this when she would hear somebody talking bad about someone of a different faith or beliefs. She couldnt explain it. Just that she believed jesus died on the cross for her sins and his resurection. She had faith in that. And being baptized. That was all she ever said. She read her bible and would admit she didnt understand it all. Well me neither. But by his grace thru our faith our sins are forgiven. I sometimes worder if sometimes we dont forget that very simple truth. His birth his death his resurection and what that means. I would never tell somebody i disagreed with they were going to hell.
I hate this "If you know him..." or "I talked to him...". We can't go what anyone says in private to Michael Brown - we have to go what they say and do in public.
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C'mon James, don't forget Leighton.
How you could be a blessing, is to ask GOD TO SHOW YOU , YOUR MISTAKES, SENDING LOVE
My only issue with Dr. White is how can he be saved when he doesn't believe in free will?
Being chosen doesn't require free will. I'm confused about your question
Justin Peters was a speaker at Strange Fire. Dr. Brown, with all respect, it didn't go well for you or your defense of prosperity gospel deceivers.
This was a good stream by respected defenders of the faith.
Thank you!
I don't understand, as a calvinist myself, why Dr James White (who I deeply respect and admire) is so friendly with an arminian such as Dr Brown, and so unfriendly with another calvinist such as Dr Robert Morey. According to the Bible, and to Dr White, Dr Brown doesn't have the right doctrine, and therefore is not a brother in Christ. But Dr Morey had the right doctrine, therefore was a brother in Christ. "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work." 2John9-11
Calvinism and Arminianism both fall under traditional Christian orthodoxy. Dr. Brown is our brother and deserves our love.
@@Bibledingers Are you aware that the Reformation fought the Catholic church first and foremost about the belief in human free will, that determines the rest of the doctrine of grace ?
Those who are arminian or molinists are Christians and are not outside of the body. The measuring stick in the New Testament on whether or not you are a Christian are a) whether or not you believe in a physical death and resurrection of Jesus, b) your behavior, another words, if you cause division or are unrepentant of sin, c) If you do not love your brother or recognize you are a sinful person, and d) if you want to force people to become Jewish and do the works of the Torah like circumcision in order to become a Christian. To that, extra biblically, we might add some teachings that are very biblical, such as the incarnation, trinity, creation, etc. without which it is no longer Christianity and thus puts you outside of Christianity. Calvinism is a theological system invented in the 16th century. This means that everyone that came before were not Christians if you adhere to such an extreme, narrow view. Which of course is complete nonsense. Whether or not we have free will and how much is not explicit in the biblical text and even if it were it's not a litmus test for whether or not you are a Christian.
@@jaredberryman-hivelead Calvinism is going back to original christianity, and unless you believe Augustine is of the 16th century, as he's the main reference of the calvinists, you're in trouble. The bible is clear about 2 things : sovereignty of God, and free will of man doesn't exist. Like Augustine said against Pelage in the 5th century. Therefore, those who deny the sovereignty of God don't believe in God because they created a false Jesus in their image, which is idolatry. "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son." 2John9
@@jeanrobin1 Augustine/Pelagius debate is about whether or not there is original sin, not whether or not we have free will to choose to follow Jesus. It's a question of whether or not human beings are able to willfully choose not to sin. Obviously, we are not able to do this. This would be the total depravity point, which I agree with. It's not the same debate at all, though. Please cite the chapter and verse where the Bible so clearly teaches that men do not have the free will to choose to follow Jesus that millions who read the Bible every day just so happen to ignore. And bonus points if you can put it in the mouth of Jesus since you referenced the teaching of Christ there in the verse.
Making the society and civilization more moral has nothing to do with salvation or the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It just means more nice moral people that are obeying the law are going to go to hell.😢
Division is and will always be part of the church while we are on earth the Bible shows us that the tares and wheat grow alongside one another.. the fact that you’re trying to unify tares and wheat sheep and goats is FRUITLESS … these two were all about their works and themselves all I heard was “I” . What about all the people been exploited by the very same people these men are defending ? Where is the love and unity in that ????
“Bad thing is always going to happen, so we should just accept it and not do anything about it.”
@@Bibledingers read the word of God, pray for wisdom and discernment, you can't platform everyone just because they say the name of Jesus. We know that theres alot of different Jesus in the world. If you can't even discern the people whom you platform, you not ready to do what you do.
I know that ya'll intentions are good, but i see you doing more damage than good.
And good intentions are not always Godly, i pray that you heed to my words.
God bless
The bizarre thing is that you can let Dr Brown say Sid Roth never said you just make baby sounds he just said you have to talk like a baby. Is that not substance Dr Brown? Stop the gas lighting. And, of course, James White has nothing meaningful to add.
I lost respect for James White with this conversation. He said he didnt watch the conversation so he cant speak on it. Earlier he said he doesnt know anything about NAR so he cant comment on that or the people. Then he drops off before responding to the last question. You guys avoided every issue people actually have. Thats neglect. Thats a faux unity.
if you defend tongues your respect is of the value 0. move on
get out of your couch and preach the gospel
the bottom line..
Both
Michael Brown and James White..
are Profe$$ional Christians
making a living,
selling the Gospel
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I love what you guys are doing in terms of unity but please stick to making good content instead of pausing every 3 seconds to speak about the people in the comments as if they are naughty little children. I feel like you should make the content and let the people say what they want to say. And even if it’s rude, you don’t have to keep talking about it. It ruins the live. You know you are speaking about controversial topics and so some will get heated, this is expected .
I think the way Brown spoke about Peters, calling him to a “higher standard” on the live was so uncalled for since Justin only asked a simple
Question. Brown’s initial response to his question was actually quite good, but he ruined it with what came next toward Peters.
The truth is, Brown is sitting comfortably in the midst of many Christians in error or false teachers/prophets, and people are naturally calling him out for this but unfortunately, even with a simple question from Peters, you can see how Brown was triggered to the core.
God bless, keep it up
Even though I enjoy this channel and these hosts, the false and fallible teachings of James White, have made me a stronger Catholic Christian! Holy Scripture teaches we must cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and keep the commandments and persevere to the end to be saved! James White says none of this is True! Jesus Christ teaches the bread, WHEN BLESSED, "is My Body ". James White says, "no it isn't!".I pray for James White to leave his fallible Protestant interpretations behind, and let Holy Scripture speak, not himself! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
@@matthewbroderick6287 this channel is Protestant, but we love you and hope you continue to interact with our content :)
@@BibledingersThank you so very much, I love you all too! I really enjoy your channel and how you desire the fruits of the Holy Spirit of Kindness and goodness to be reflected in our interactions with one another, thank you! Indeed, even if one has ALL FAITH, but does not LOVE, IT IS USELESS! I would love to be on your channel and present Biblical evidence for Catholic teaching if you are open to it? Thank you for your kindness! God's grace and peace to you always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!!
@@Bibledingers just wondering, would you be open to having me, a Catholic Christian on your channel to present the Biblical evidence for Catholic teaching? God's grace and peace to you always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
@@matthewbroderick6287But Friend , If You read the Whole Chapter. You will Understand,it's Having Spiritual Meaning and Not what Catholics teaches.
I one Was having the Question you are holding, But I read Bible and Came to Know , Catholics doctrine about The Supper is Unbiblical.
I Am Protestant By Grace of God.
You please read that Chapter.
May God remove out of those Unbiblical doctrines of Catholics.
@Spark12395 Lol!! Too funny!! Unbiblical?🤣 Catholic Christians agree with Jesus Christ when Jesus teaches that the bread, WHEN BLESSED, "is My Body ". Fallible Protestants like yourself say to Jesus Christ, "no it isn't ". Jesus Christ teaches "My Flesh is True food and Blood true drink ". Fallible Protestants like yourself say to Jesus Christ, "no it isn't! You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink