I came to this video after seeing an electric lift foil video. I kept waiting for you to add the power unit. Even after you started I didn't realize your board wasn't powered. The first "pumping" I saw you perform, I thought it was just for fun. It took me a bit to realize you were powering the board by pumping. I had no idea these types of boards existed. I now see a bunch in the sidebar so apparently this isn't something very rare. Thanks for introducing me to the world of hydrofoil surfing. I'm pretty sure I'll only enjoy this world through TH-cam videos but it's nice to know this world exists. Thanks for sharing this video.
I discovered this world of human powered flight a couple of years ago and fell in love. There’s no feeling like it. I imagine it’s what Marty Mcfly felt like in Back to the Future II when he was riding a hoverboard :) I have been on a journey to find the perfect wing for the lake and the search continues. Thanks so much for your comment. I hope you fall in love too!
Thank you another great review. Only been foiling behind boat once and it's an interesting lens. The Lift HA 200 is great foil for surfing. The magic combo with the HA200 is the 34 surf tail. The 25 tail works better on the HA 170 and lighter guys or better yet longer period waves.
Thank you, Ryan. I enjoyed it too. A bigger rear wing would’ve enhanced my experience, I think. I’ll try the 34 in a future review. Appreciate the comment. I’ve never foiled in the ocean. I have a lot to learn. Not sure I remember how to paddle ... will be more of a doggie paddle when I first try :)
Ryan - Thanks for the info! What are your thoughts on a HA200 with the 40 Surf Rear wing and or the 250HA with the 40 Surf? I am 175lbs and trying to decide between the HA200 or 250HA for a multi-use foil for Wake behind boat, SUP, and WingDing...... Thoughts?
Great Video, but it looks like you mounted the mast with the trailing edge in riding direction? not sure if it was just for the assembly part or also while riding..
Benni. You have an amazing eye. You might very well be right! That might explain the tight fit I experienced. I am surprised it can be mounted backwards as other fools like me might make this mistake! The mast does contribute to drag (we think about 7% of total drag based on our models) so mounting it backwards might have increased that to 10% or so, depending on how much sharper the trailing edge is. I feel like a fool, but can definitely report a Lift mast mounted backwards still performed well! LOL. Thanks for the comment. I can imagine this would matter a lot for the higher speeds of winging, but I'm not sure it mattered a heck of a lot at my speeds. Amazing catch!
Informative video. I would love for you to standardize your tests a bit more and maintain a data base of all the foils you will be testing. For example, for glide, if you could use a gps and begin each glide run at the same speed, it would be more reproducible. (also note factors such as prevailing wind or currents). A very important question which many foilers have is how early a foil comes up. I have always thought a good way to test this is to use a bigger board and some type of weight system to simulate a human on the board and then just gradually accelerate and see what speed a given foil comes up at. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Great thoughts, Phil. I like them. Thank you for sharing. I’d love to hear more ideas and get your thoughts on how better to measure. Please PM me on Facebook @Foiling NY.
Great videos. Any chance you could do a review on the kujira 1210? I would be surprised if I was the only one who would like to see your tests on that one.
@@WakeThief That is great news. I have been following your reviews for a while, and I really like your approach. I also find them more pertinent for "stuck on the lake" foilers. Personally, I think every new foil should be sent to you for testing. You have started to establish a nice routine. Maybe you could introduce a "FNY-score" based on a couple of criteria :)
Another awesome video. It's so good to see all these different foils ridden in the same conditions. The lift HA looks great, but to a certain extent they all perform really well. Care to choose an overall winner?
Thank you, Dominic. They were more similar than different. Based on the things I find important, I would have to say that I like the AXIS 1150 most. I want more area than these wings. If I had to pick one of these four, I liked the AXIS 910 most. Perhaps it’s the hours I have clocked on it (more than the rest) and the fact that pumping is such an important part of what I do.
@@WakeThief aloha, you definitely need the 40 surf tail, Iam 195lb & ride the 200 high aspect... bought the smaller tail initially very squirrely, next tail up makes a huge difference, stay warm!
You can try those hand held luggage scales, tie to the end of the rope, lock a ground speed on the jet and read the PULL at various speeds and foils, of course DO NOT take off with the scale for it's gonna brake in 2, wait for cruise and attach the MAKESHIFT waterproof scale, OR have a partner on the Jet to do it, more complex dough
Thanks for the question. I flip the board upside down and lift the foil up from the front wing, near what looks like the center of lift. I then adjust base plate forward or back until the board levels off. Any further adjustments, I can usually accommodate by shifting my feet on the board. Great question. Thanks again for the comment.
@@WakeThief Nice, typical good way to find a starting point from the foil surfers too. Do you find the same things that seem to be common thinking as far as brands. IE: Lift foils have to be mounted further forward in the box. AXIS likes to be further back in the box.
@@Hdip I’ve only tried one lift setup (this one) and a few different ones from AXIS. I’d love to learn more about what you’re describing. Can you please share?
@@WakeThief Sure, it just relates to mast position. I'm a prone surf foiler. Never wake foiled, but imagine it crosses over a bit. I've had Naish, Lift 200 classic, Axis 900 and 760 front wings. Just got a cloud 9 F32 that I've only had in the water once. All on the same 4'8" prone board 31 liters. Lift is very backfoot centric and due to that has to be mounted (very scientific here) 1 finger space from the front of my tracks. AXIS has a ton more "lift" and therefore has to be setup near the back of my tracks. The 900 HA wing is about 2 fingers from the back of my tracks and the 760 surf wing is about 2.5 fingers from the back of my tracks which is just behind center. The F32 I mounted similar to the AXIS 900 on it's first go out, but I think I need to move it forward just a little bit. @KDMaui on instagram who I first heard the balance the board upside down trick from says, if you're digging rails carving you need more lift move it forward to dial in position. If you're blowing out and breeching while carving less lift, move mast back. It seems to be pretty applicable. Love your video's btw. We're enjoying them on all the foil message boards I read.
@@Hdip wow! thank you for this thorough answer. I get it. If you’re on Facebook, I’d love to pick your brain as there’s no substitute for the learning you’ve had first hand. Thanks so much for leaving this thorough comment. @Foiling NY on Facebook.
How was the mast stiffness? I tried it and it is very light and less drag than any other foil I tried but the mast was so flexible it wasn’t hard to ride. Maybe they went to a stiffer mast?
I’m not really sure. It felt stiff but it wasn’t a huge wing so not sure I really put it to the test. I’ve felt the affects of flexing masts on wings >105cm span but I felt like this one was ok.
It’s actually a great idea. I find keeping these screws tight on any foil is a fools errand. One hates to overtighten but there’s a tendency to do it if the screw starts to come loose
Awesome eye! Yes, right after I launched the video someone told me the same. Bonehead move on my part! I can’t imagine making this mistake again, but it’s always possible. I was surprised the mast fit the fuse in either direction. The front wing was hard to fit nonetheless.
@@WakeThief Thanks for the response. I'm deciding between the lift 200 HA or a similar Axis setup. However, It doesn't seem like you can get the same ultra low weight with an Axis setup
Axis just launched a carbon mast, though I’ve never tried it. The lift setup is the lightest I’ve tried. I think weight doesn’t matter much for what I do, but if I were doing flips over wakes / waves, I think it’d care more about weight. I’d take more weight for more rigidity. Thanks for the comment.
Thank you for the question. Ideally, aspect ratio should be the wingspan multiplied by the wingspan divided by the projected horizontal area of the wing, however, not all manufacturers report projected horizontal area, so I'm using actual area, which is pretty close unless the wing has a significant anhedral shape (or large area wingtips that are pointed downward). So ... wingspan x wingspan divided by wing area. If the chord didn't vary across the span (rectangular wing plan shape), you could use wingspan divided by chord.
15 to 20 kmph only in my exp with a proper large foil 25-30 kmph for smaller foils , its more about your weight and foil size. some foils pop at 10kmph others need 15 kmph or more
@@CarkeekW completely agree. The size of the foil matters a lot. I have a 700sqcm wing that rises out of the water at about the max speed I can reach on my 2400sqcm wing before I can’t hold it down anymore. Thanks for the comment
This foil was loaned to me, but generally a complete hydroilfoil minus the board ranges from $1000-$2000 (biggest price driver is whether mast/fuselage is carbon), with some outliers to this price
Thats a great idea. I have reached the same conclusion. Foil sections matter more than the attention they current get. I will see what I can do. Some things like thickness are easier to measure then others (camber). Thanks Gustavo.
With the astronomically ridiculous high price they charge for this stuff they should have a stainless steel or a nice polished aluminum case to keep them in for you...
I came to this video after seeing an electric lift foil video. I kept waiting for you to add the power unit.
Even after you started I didn't realize your board wasn't powered. The first "pumping" I saw you perform, I thought it was just for fun. It took me a bit to realize you were powering the board by pumping. I had no idea these types of boards existed. I now see a bunch in the sidebar so apparently this isn't something very rare.
Thanks for introducing me to the world of hydrofoil surfing. I'm pretty sure I'll only enjoy this world through TH-cam videos but it's nice to know this world exists.
Thanks for sharing this video.
I discovered this world of human powered flight a couple of years ago and fell in love. There’s no feeling like it. I imagine it’s what Marty Mcfly felt like in Back to the Future II when he was riding a hoverboard :) I have been on a journey to find the perfect wing for the lake and the search continues. Thanks so much for your comment. I hope you fall in love too!
Foiling NY - Awesome Video Series, incredibly informative and really helps in the decision making process! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Jeffrey ... glad it can be helpful. I'm still learning a lot so enjoying every minute. Appreciate the comment.
Thank you another great review. Only been foiling behind boat once and it's an interesting lens. The Lift HA 200 is great foil for surfing. The magic combo with the HA200 is the 34 surf tail. The 25 tail works better on the HA 170 and lighter guys or better yet longer period waves.
Thank you, Ryan. I enjoyed it too. A bigger rear wing would’ve enhanced my experience, I think. I’ll try the 34 in a future review. Appreciate the comment. I’ve never foiled in the ocean. I have a lot to learn. Not sure I remember how to paddle ... will be more of a doggie paddle when I first try :)
Ryan - Thanks for the info! What are your thoughts on a HA200 with the 40 Surf Rear wing and or the 250HA with the 40 Surf? I am 175lbs and trying to decide between the HA200 or 250HA for a multi-use foil for Wake behind boat, SUP, and WingDing...... Thoughts?
Three years have gone by, lot has changed in the defininition of HA. But you should review the new Liftfoils 220 HAX 😊
Great Video, but it looks like you mounted the mast with the trailing edge in riding direction? not sure if it was just for the assembly part or also while riding..
Benni. You have an amazing eye. You might very well be right! That might explain the tight fit I experienced. I am surprised it can be mounted backwards as other fools like me might make this mistake! The mast does contribute to drag (we think about 7% of total drag based on our models) so mounting it backwards might have increased that to 10% or so, depending on how much sharper the trailing edge is. I feel like a fool, but can definitely report a Lift mast mounted backwards still performed well! LOL. Thanks for the comment. I can imagine this would matter a lot for the higher speeds of winging, but I'm not sure it mattered a heck of a lot at my speeds. Amazing catch!
Good vids mate keep em coming !!!
Thank you, Duncan! I’ll keep making them a as I keep learning and others keep caring to learn with me. Appreciate the comment!
Informative video. I would love for you to standardize your tests a bit more and maintain a data base of all the foils you will be testing. For example, for glide, if you could use a gps and begin each glide run at the same speed, it would be more reproducible. (also note factors such as prevailing wind or currents). A very important question which many foilers have is how early a foil comes up. I have always thought a good way to test this is to use a bigger board and some type of weight system to simulate a human on the board and then just gradually accelerate and see what speed a given foil comes up at. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Great thoughts, Phil. I like them. Thank you for sharing. I’d love to hear more ideas and get your thoughts on how better to measure. Please PM me on Facebook @Foiling NY.
Great videos. Any chance you could do a review on the kujira 1210? I would be surprised if I was the only one who would like to see your tests on that one.
You got it! Working on getting the Kujira lineup. Thanks.
@@WakeThief That is great news. I have been following your reviews for a while, and I really like your approach. I also find them more pertinent for "stuck on the lake" foilers.
Personally, I think every new foil should be sent to you for testing. You have started to establish a nice routine.
Maybe you could introduce a "FNY-score" based on a couple of criteria :)
Seb. That’s a great idea!!! If I ever do the FNY, it was your idea and I’ll never forget it!
Great video - thanks.
Thank you, Ben. I appreciate the comment. If you have any other products you’d like me try to get a hold of to review, please let me know.
Another awesome video. It's so good to see all these different foils ridden in the same conditions. The lift HA looks great, but to a certain extent they all perform really well. Care to choose an overall winner?
Thank you, Dominic. They were more similar than different. Based on the things I find important, I would have to say that I like the AXIS 1150 most. I want more area than these wings. If I had to pick one of these four, I liked the AXIS 910 most. Perhaps it’s the hours I have clocked on it (more than the rest) and the fact that pumping is such an important part of what I do.
Why did you choose the 25 rear wing? I would love to see you try the 40.
Great suggestion. The demo I received had the 25 rear wing. I think you’re right regarding the 40. Thanks for the comment.
@@WakeThief aloha, you definitely need the 40 surf tail, Iam 195lb & ride the 200 high aspect... bought the smaller tail initially very squirrely, next tail up makes a huge difference, stay warm!
You can try those hand held luggage scales, tie to the end of the rope, lock a ground speed on the jet and read the PULL at various speeds and foils, of course DO NOT take off with the scale for it's gonna brake in 2, wait for cruise and attach the MAKESHIFT waterproof scale, OR have a partner on the Jet to do it, more complex dough
It is a great suggestion. I took someone's advice and did that, and incorporated it in this video: th-cam.com/video/fUwOYLGfg5k/w-d-xo.html
Thanks so much for your comment. It's about 100lb pull force from my dock.
I did try a luggage scale wants to test the pull force at take off from the water, and we broke it as you forecasted.
Your foiling days are numbered?
Could you look at the gong galaxy alvator veloce foil 😍 it looks teally good to pump too 👍love your videos look all of them 👍
Thanks Robin. I'll see hat I can do. Thanks for the suggestion! And .. thank you for the comment.
Where is your lake? you mentioned Phil from inland sea. I purchase my Kite gear there.
Awesome! Phil is great. I am located in upstate NY, still about 3-4 hours from Phil.
How do you sort out mast position per brand? Per front wing for that matter? Do you dial that in before you start recording the data?
Thanks for the question. I flip the board upside down and lift the foil up from the front wing, near what looks like the center of lift. I then adjust base plate forward or back until the board levels off. Any further adjustments, I can usually accommodate by shifting my feet on the board. Great question. Thanks again for the comment.
@@WakeThief Nice, typical good way to find a starting point from the foil surfers too. Do you find the same things that seem to be common thinking as far as brands. IE: Lift foils have to be mounted further forward in the box. AXIS likes to be further back in the box.
@@Hdip I’ve only tried one lift setup (this one) and a few different ones from AXIS. I’d love to learn more about what you’re describing. Can you please share?
@@WakeThief Sure, it just relates to mast position. I'm a prone surf foiler. Never wake foiled, but imagine it crosses over a bit. I've had Naish, Lift 200 classic, Axis 900 and 760 front wings. Just got a cloud 9 F32 that I've only had in the water once.
All on the same 4'8" prone board 31 liters.
Lift is very backfoot centric and due to that has to be mounted (very scientific here) 1 finger space from the front of my tracks.
AXIS has a ton more "lift" and therefore has to be setup near the back of my tracks. The 900 HA wing is about 2 fingers from the back of my tracks and the 760 surf wing is about 2.5 fingers from the back of my tracks which is just behind center.
The F32 I mounted similar to the AXIS 900 on it's first go out, but I think I need to move it forward just a little bit. @KDMaui on instagram who I first heard the balance the board upside down trick from says, if you're digging rails carving you need more lift move it forward to dial in position. If you're blowing out and breeching while carving less lift, move mast back. It seems to be pretty applicable.
Love your video's btw. We're enjoying them on all the foil message boards I read.
@@Hdip wow! thank you for this thorough answer. I get it. If you’re on Facebook, I’d love to pick your brain as there’s no substitute for the learning you’ve had first hand. Thanks so much for leaving this thorough comment. @Foiling NY on Facebook.
How was the mast stiffness? I tried it and it is very light and less drag than any other foil I tried but the mast was so flexible it wasn’t hard to ride. Maybe they went to a stiffer mast?
I’m not really sure. It felt stiff but it wasn’t a huge wing so not sure I really put it to the test. I’ve felt the affects of flexing masts on wings >105cm span but I felt like this one was ok.
I would have thought you would use a torque wrench?
It’s actually a great idea. I find keeping these screws tight on any foil is a fools errand. One hates to overtighten but there’s a tendency to do it if the screw starts to come loose
no wonder you were having trouble screwing the front wing on you had the mast backward! @waketheif
Awesome eye! Yes, right after I launched the video someone told me the same. Bonehead move on my part! I can’t imagine making this mistake again, but it’s always possible. I was surprised the mast fit the fuse in either direction. The front wing was hard to fit nonetheless.
I’m Curious did you have any luck dock starting with the lift 200HA ?
I didn’t try it. At my weight I think I would’ve struggled to get enough speed, even with a running start off the dock.
@@WakeThief Thanks for the response. I'm deciding between the lift 200 HA or a similar Axis setup. However, It doesn't seem like you can get the same ultra low weight with an Axis setup
Axis just launched a carbon mast, though I’ve never tried it. The lift setup is the lightest I’ve tried. I think weight doesn’t matter much for what I do, but if I were doing flips over wakes / waves, I think it’d care more about weight. I’d take more weight for more rigidity. Thanks for the comment.
How do you calculate the aspect ratio?
Thank you for the question. Ideally, aspect ratio should be the wingspan multiplied by the wingspan divided by the projected horizontal area of the wing, however, not all manufacturers report projected horizontal area, so I'm using actual area, which is pretty close unless the wing has a significant anhedral shape (or large area wingtips that are pointed downward). So ... wingspan x wingspan divided by wing area. If the chord didn't vary across the span (rectangular wing plan shape), you could use wingspan divided by chord.
What jet ski speed do you use for surfing please?
The speedometer is not particularly accurate, but we believe it’s typically 10-12mph.
15 to 20 kmph only in my exp with a proper large foil 25-30 kmph for smaller foils , its more about your weight and foil size. some foils pop at 10kmph others need 15 kmph or more
@@CarkeekW completely agree. The size of the foil matters a lot. I have a 700sqcm wing that rises out of the water at about the max speed I can reach on my 2400sqcm wing before I can’t hold it down anymore. Thanks for the comment
Can you tell me the price Dev? Please 🙏
This foil was loaned to me, but generally a complete hydroilfoil minus the board ranges from $1000-$2000 (biggest price driver is whether mast/fuselage is carbon), with some outliers to this price
Thk you for the information Dev🙏🙏
the devil is in the details ...why not go into the foil section details and thickness ?
Thats a great idea. I have reached the same conclusion. Foil sections matter more than the attention they current get. I will see what I can do. Some things like thickness are easier to measure then others (camber). Thanks Gustavo.
Ruler and caliper to show concaves and thickness .if you do you will be the first to dive deeper in understanding the complexities
Thank you for the suggestion, Gustavo. I will look into this further.
With the astronomically ridiculous high price they charge for this stuff they should have a stainless steel or a nice polished aluminum case to keep them in for you...