@@Dfgbuiiyyyybb yep I dumped the B&T because of it. Had the same amount of recoil as a much cheaper Ruger PC Charger, so couldn't justify the price tag just for mOdeRN cONtroLS vs an actual enjoying range experience.
B&T is a parts supplier of H&K. All ther OEM subpressors are made by B&T. B&T has the patent to produce the MP5. B&T is the importer of H&K in Switzerland. They are extremely close to each other.
Yeah, that does sound confusing. I'm sure there's some official bureaucratic explanation between the "adopted" mp5 during the 70s and the now "officially adopted" apc9.
Shot them side by side years ago, MP5 of course is still a good and fun gun to shoot. But the whole group i was with we were all of the same mind, APC was quite a bit nicer to shoot. And the more modern controls/lay-out makes it much easier to reload and handle or to put on lights and things. That is also comes standard with a good red dot is always a nice selling point.
I’ve been collecting MP5’s long before the SP5 came to the US. It’s history in real life and movies, good looks, durability, reliability, it can shoot supers and subs without adjustments (80 degree locking piece for subs through a K) and it’s a pleasure to shoot is why. Started with a DJ Getz MP5K that I made into a sbr and suppressed it. Next, a full size Omega MP5N and then a TPM Outfitters MP5SD. With the price and quality of MKE importing them, I’ve picked up three of those instead of one SP5. First, an AP5-M sbr. Next a AP5, but this time I’m giving it an A3 stock instead of the A2 that’s on my Omega to be able to have them both. I ordered a Surefire 328lmf-b light, but haven’t decided which MP5 to put it on yet. And finally, another AP5-M to make an AOW (just a front grip, no stock), to have more variety in my collection and a gun Neo had lol I should do a second one to match his pair :) Binary triggers in all of them is a dream come true and I never imagined it when I bought my first one all those years ago.
Looked at the APC9 but hit the buy now button on the SP5 10 min ago. I love the way the MP5 shoots, love its history. The latest, greatest is only that for a short time. Iconic is forever.
APC-9 hands down and every day. You don't have to keep a note book on which parts to replace at X number of rounds like on an HK. Also you can drop after-market triggers in the APC-9 that give you a nice 2.5 break.
How hard could it be to develop, say a Yugo AK style, magazine follower that an MP5’s bolt hits on an empty mag, notifying the shooter to lock back the charging handle, drop mag, insert new mag, and slap it into battery? The lore that the G3/CETME C doesn’t have a LRBHO feature is that the “violence” of the delayed roller blowback in a full power cartridge would break the hold open mechanism. In theory, that shouldn’t be a problem in a 9mm platform but there’s probably a reason nobody’s done it, even though it could shave one or more seconds off a mag change. It’s a janky solution but this is a 60’s design we’re trying to drag kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
I _love_ B&T; they absolutely rock. That said, nothing will replace the MP5K-PDW, the king of the PDWs - well, maybe the MP7, but we don’t talk about that here. (Proceeds to cry.)
To me, the MP5 is the "cooler" collector piece if that's what you're buying it for. For a modern fighting gun, the APC is the answer. So I'd say they're for different purposes. The MP5 can obviously still get the job done, but why fight an uphill battle with modifying/outfitting it. So, cool factor: MP5. Actual use: APC for me.
how is it uphill? all you literally have to do is get a rail handguard and a rail top. The stocks are easily exchangeable as well as the firing group. People nowdays make it sound like its cosmetic surgery to do a modification on the weapon.
Own both in SBR form. Love the MP series but not having to deal with exchanging locking pieces when running suppressed vs unsuppressed is a nice benefit of the B&T. German MP mags and parts can get pricey, and only specialists can work on replacing barrels, setting the bolt gap properly. Simple is good. B&T for the win- Optics mounting, ergo's, cheaper mags, faster mag changes. It's really the perfected 9MM PCC
I was looking for a MP5, couldn’t find one. Was directed to the APC9, got one and love it. Pair it with a nice can like a Deadair Wolfman, and it becomes silky sexy time, never shot an MP5…. Yet. I dig it, James, thanks.
I’ve just discovered this channel and I absolutly love it ! James is a unique reporter/demonstrator ! A perfect entertainer. I bought my first weapon yesterday and it’s a H&K SP5 (MP5 for civilians). I have been in love with this weapon since many years. It’s such an inconic MP.. Best regards from France ! Guillaume
Got 'em both (and an MPX-k). They're all great but for the three together, with accessories included (and that crazy expensive B&T telescopic brace/tailhook) I'm in for just about 10 grand on the trio. 10,000... for semi auto 9mm's. It's an illness, but once you have them, range time sure is fun, and you make a lot of new friends.
These are both really cool and while the H&K is more well known, the other expensive 9mm firearm of this type that is on my radar, IF I had the money, is the Sig MPX.
You should review that lee sporting MP5 lower that "modernizes" the mp5. Mag catch BUTTON is obtainable with trigger finger, and can drop in better AR triggers
I had to choose between SP5, APC9 and SPC9 just a few months ago. I decided to get the SP5 because it's a classic. Both of the B&Ts would have been objectively better, but you just can't beat the classy looks of the SP5.
If I were to get an SP5, I would have to go the SBR or AOW route. They just don't look right without the classic MP5K foregrip. I'd probably do a reverse stretch with an A3 sliding buttstock.
@@tylerwilliams6022Here in Finland a rifle has to have a 12" barrel so suppressor had to be permanently istalled to the muzzle when I bought it. SBRs (less than 12") are practicly banned nowadays from civilians. It came with an A2 stock and I bought an A3F stock to get even sexier looks.
@@ohamalai I guess that's my bad for automatically assuming you were in the US. And I thought the SP5 was the name for the MP5K sans foregrip. Here in the US we also have weird restrictions on having a pistol with a vertical foregrip. That's what I was alluding to to make something more MP5 K'ish. I understand what you are talking about now. Being restricted to 12 inch barrels isn't too bad for rifles. And it sounds like suppressors aren't a big deal for you guys either. I think for your standard MP5s, I just prefer the plain A3 with sliding buttstock. If it weren't so much more red tape and price, an MP5SD clone would be rather sweet!
I have both, both are awesome. The B&T glock lower is definitely the way to go over the original B&T. The B&T mag feed lips are sharp and will cut you when trying to load.
You know, if you have the bank to afford one, you probably have the bank to afford both. Still, my inner SAS loving Anglophile says that you’ll never go wrong with an MP5
Both are incredible weapons for sure. Maybe one day I will buy one or both but for now I will be happy with my Beretta CX4 Storm. Accurate, reliable, and well under $1000.
I've shot both, I own an SP5, and I agree, the APC9 is objectively the better gun. If I had to decide again tomorrow, I'd buy the SP5 again, but I won't pretend it's the rational choice.
I have the b&T apc 9 pro and my uncle owns the hksp5 i can easily say the controls on the apc are much faster and easier to use but the hk just has that cool feeling … if i had to pick just one it would be the b&T
I love B&T. Your vid there a while back was awesome. If you haven't seen War Dogs, - do. Bradley Cooper plays Heinrich Thomet. Great movie. Thanks for this video. Anything mp9 or B&T has always been a homerun for you. Your wet shirt had me & my kid rolling.
I love the mp5 irons just running them irons is fun. The B&T is a modern update of it. At least B&T more customizable but both suffer mag cost though and the B&T is more ergonomic with attachments.
The problem with both of these designs is our government; specifically the ATF making it a PITA to own one configured how everyone would want it (with as stock). And if you want to comment and complain how a $200 tax stamp shouldn't be a PITA if you can afford either of these, it's not the money; it's the principle. *Final score:* MP5: 5 APC-9: 9 ATF: -69 (because the only time they 69 is with two dudes)
Having shot all 3. My favorite is the spc9 with glock lower. The B&T lower looks cool, but the mags wont seat nearly as easily as the glock mags so I have to down-load it by 1 in order to fit. With glock mags all 33rds fit without having to use excessive for for it to seat. Not only that, with the B&T mags the bolt release is damn near impossible to release with 1 finger, but with glock mag, there is no problem, I was shocked at how much easier it was after I switch from the B&T lower to the Glock lower. As far as apc vs spc. I prefer the look of the spc and it provides a cheek weld. It's also small enough to fit in my backpack with a suppressor attached. The apc9k is smaller, but it provides no other benefit and less room for attachments.
@@0Asterite0 It's not just the tube for me.. The SPC9 is still smaller with the suppressor attached. I paid only $2200 for it with the telescopic stock ($2400 with tax stamp). The JP-5 isn't worth 3.2k especially for something I hate the look of. The SPC9 is softer shooting than the apc9 at least it seemed that way to me, but even then the recoil of an apc9 is nothing to begin with. Even when I shot the SP5 I couldn't notice a drastic difference in recoil so roller delayed isnt really intriguing enough to spend an extra 1k on. I also trust B&T more than JP when it comes to long term hard uses durability & reliability. I think the best options are either the SPC9 or APC9k (if you're going for the smallest possible setup) both with glock lowers..
The shooting experience between the two is night and day. The B&T would be a perfect SMG if they didn't cheap out and make it blow back. But they did, so in my mind the MP5 still reigns. It makes you look good because its so much softer shooting. About the mags, since you mentioned aftermarket APC9 mags its only fair to point out that the same exists for the MP5 as well. AC Unity, KCI, MKE etc. Not all are great magazines, the HKs are very reliable. But for a range toy, you have options.
@@03Grunt-arrino I can't say that it does in practice. Having shot it back to back with the MP5, it is not as smooth shooting. Seems like a nitpick. And maybe it is. But I, and everyone else with me at the time, were able to shoot noticeably faster followups with the MP5 and do so accurately. Like I said, it makes you look good.
I think it compares well to some of the other modern PCCs like the scorpion evo and the KP9. Best bang for buck is probably building a decent AR-9 because you can reuse a lot of good and cheap AR-15 parts. I own both an AR-9 and an MP5 fwiw.@@dakolbycrittenden-brown229
@@mattwhite7421 I agree the MP5 is certainly smoother, but I’m saying we give credit to B&T where due. I’m buying the telescopic stock for my APC and the damn buffer makes it so expensive haha.
Seriously. People are getting more into PCCs but they recognize that smaller is objectively better because a large PCC isn’t worth it over an SBR AR15. They should also make it have standard tri lug so it can take any suppressor
Own both. SP5 feels better in the hands, recoil is better and more natural for me. APC9 has its advantages but SP5 feels at home so rarely shoot APC9. I have put the rounds through the APC9 also but always grab SP5 first. Very personal decision between these 2. The bombproof mags on HK much better than the BT. Comparing mag prices on a platform this expensive feels like splitting hairs to give an extra bump to BT. Adding a Knights foregrip with optics mount solves the optic mounting issues on the HK. From my view it’s a dead heat and the only edge is BT having last round hold open.
Lingle Industries also makes Scorpion mag lowers for the APC-9, so you've got a LOT of options for it. I really, REALLY want an APC-9, but frankly the B&T GHM9 being half the price is so absurdly compelling.
I have an HK SP5 and a B&T APC9. Both are extremely accurate. The felt recoil on the APC9 is a tiny bit more than the SP5, but you really have focus to feel it. The APC9 is more ergonomic than the SP5. The only difference for me, and it is highly subjective, is that the SP5 (with the factory handguard) just feels better in my hands. It makes the gun feel like a part of me. I couldn't part with either.
Karl Brugger is the greatest firearm designer since John Browning. B&T simply is the master race of firearms. APC223 is still my favorite that I own & I have six.
MP5s once kitted are just as heavy as your typical Mk18 SBR so I feel like the MP5k is actually the better buy. Still relevant depending on concealment needs
I was thinking the same. For the money, surely a CZ Scorpion isn't a bad choice. Fairly new firearm with a more modern layout. And the price isn't bad either. Haven't priced them lately, what are they like $1600? Plus you get that legendary CZ quality.
I agree the cz flat gits it! I have the evo3 s2 micro LE pkg and freakin love it! Added new trigger oversized charging handle mag release and AK style safety bad to the bone!
@@alexhdz512 Wow, that's not bad at all! Only downside at the moment is the Pistol Brace rule is yet to completely crumble. I may have to look into getting a Scorpion. I would probably add a Sapper handguard rail as I think thoss look sick on a Scorpion.
It's worth noting that you can get some very good clones/knockoffs of the MP5 for about half the price. The APC9, however, is a unique beast unto itself.
It's too bad the B&T Glock magazine lowers aren't properly ambi in terms of the mag release :/ Having to reach the front edge of the magazine well in a firing grip when operating the gun left handed isn't something most people can do without some sort of surgical extension to their left index finger :D
"the mp5 died 20 years ago like Mr Rodgers" However the mp5 is still around as even death fears to take it Also you didn't add 1000 swag/drip/John McClain used it - points to the mp5
@@TescoVee yea the only downside is it doesn't take Glock mags, but you can't fault it when it's take 30 years for Glock mags to be cheap, large capacity, and everywhere Not to mention Glock was making shovels when the MP5 came out Tho I'm sure there are some workarounds that make it take Glock mags, like cutting the top off one n adding an adapter Or some kinda crazy stuff like that
The correct answer is both If you are really budget limited pick up an MP5 clone, MKE clones imported by Century Arms are running closer to $1K every day. Use the money you save to buy an APC9 or the less expensive B&T GHM9 Also TFB, you should do an MP5 vs SPC9 video. Or even an SPC9 vs APC9 video. (I'm strongly considering picking up an SPC9 and want to see how it stacks up against everything. My MP5s aren't going anywhere and I don't know what my next B&T should be lol)
The SPC9 is nearly identical to the APC9 from a functional standpoint. The buffer system is ever so slightly different and felt recoil is a little less as a result but it's really a case of picking a slightly more compact package with the APC, or a slightly more familiar set of controls with the SPC
I can't justify that kind of price for a 9mm sub gun, and I own an MPX. Mine was $1600 for a factory 8" SBR in 2016. I know they haven't gotten any cheaper but they aren't pushing $3k+ like these two.
the best 9mm carabine is the B&T GHM9, all the advantage of the APC9 (with a bit more recoil), but cheaper, and more reliable, the APC9 don't eat the crap surplus 9mm ammo, but the GHM9 eat them, and eat everything is 9*19mm parabellum.
I’m never going to be in a position to use the APC-9 for combat since I’m just a civilian in Idaho. MP5 for cool factor for me and if I do need to use it, it will work just fine.
If money isn’t considered, a fully kitted out mp5 is absolutely the answer. The non existent recoil coupled with the bomb proof reliability makes it the right answer for me. I have 10k rounds on mine and it’s never given me a reason to doubt it. It’s more reliable than death or taxes. Sp5, Bt telescoping stock rails, gibbous outdoor a3 stock, claw mount, exps 3-0, sef lower, timney trigger, surefire forend with malkov sho guts, and some coupled mags, 2 point sling. The only two complaints I have are the weight, and the lack of an automatic bolt hold. I’ll deal with those issues all day for the reliability factor alone.
for the weight comparison it'd be a closer comparison between the mp5k and b&t since their barrel lengths aren't the same. But honestly, just get an ap5. Its an sp5 without the German markings but still using the German tooling. With the amount of money you save, you can upgrade the ap5/ap5p to surpass the apc9. Just slap a mlok handgaurd, pic optic rail, and timney trigger in and you now have softer recoil, modern mounting options, and an equivalent or better trigger all for less than 2k. The APC will still win in manual of arms though but that's expected given the time difference.
Owned both. SP5 is softer recoiling, APC9 has more modern controls. Decide which is more important to you, otherwise you can't go wrong.
One of the main reasons I don’t care for the mini 14 is not the accuracy but the recoil compared to an AR or Ak in the same caliber.
Awesome comment short n sweet thank you.
I cannot imagine chasing John McClane with a APC9. And i need that...
I’m glad someone else said it. I own the 9K Pro and I’ve shot the SP5… if I had to do I all over again I’d take the SP5.
@@Dfgbuiiyyyybb yep I dumped the B&T because of it. Had the same amount of recoil as a much cheaper Ruger PC Charger, so couldn't justify the price tag just for mOdeRN cONtroLS vs an actual enjoying range experience.
B&T is basically H&K if they loved their civilian customers instead of hating them
How does b and t hate their customers? Great products, also limited runs of retro like guns. Not the cheapest, but .
@@eyenowrite885 he is saying the opposite.
B&T is a parts supplier of H&K. All ther OEM subpressors are made by B&T. B&T has the patent to produce the MP5. B&T is the importer of H&K in Switzerland. They are extremely close to each other.
100%
@@gregkollaeg2365 I read somewhere that B&T was started by a former HK guy
Couldn't decide so I got them both. I then added the SPC9 PDW SD to the family later on.
I seen you videos they are great content! just need to work on setting up camera for better angles and sound quality
Wait, the B&T is the first smg adopted by the US military since the grease gun, but it's being purchased to replace their aging fleet of MP5s🤔
Yeah, that does sound confusing. I'm sure there's some official bureaucratic explanation between the "adopted" mp5 during the 70s and the now "officially adopted" apc9.
Mp5 was/is used by SOF/Specialty units in the same vein as mp7,hk416, etc.. but not adopted/approved for widespread use like the b&t may
"Adopted" as in made a procurement of merely 350 (yes, individual not thousands) APC9k with option for 650 more, meaning it's not replacing anything.
I got to fire a FA MP5 and it was very controllable. Really fun to shoot and an iconic SMG.
I have a APC9K pro SBR and a SP5k PDW SBR. The B&T get shot a lot more, and it’s my #1 bag gun. It literally fits in a Chromebook sleeve.
Shot them side by side years ago, MP5 of course is still a good and fun gun to shoot.
But the whole group i was with we were all of the same mind, APC was quite a bit nicer to shoot.
And the more modern controls/lay-out makes it much easier to reload and handle or to put on lights and things.
That is also comes standard with a good red dot is always a nice selling point.
I’ve been collecting MP5’s long before the SP5 came to the US. It’s history in real life and movies, good looks, durability, reliability, it can shoot supers and subs without adjustments (80 degree locking piece for subs through a K) and it’s a pleasure to shoot is why.
Started with a DJ Getz MP5K that I made into a sbr and suppressed it. Next, a full size Omega MP5N and then a TPM Outfitters MP5SD. With the price and quality of MKE importing them, I’ve picked up three of those instead of one SP5. First, an AP5-M sbr. Next a AP5, but this time I’m giving it an A3 stock instead of the A2 that’s on my Omega to be able to have them both. I ordered a Surefire 328lmf-b light, but haven’t decided which MP5 to put it on yet. And finally, another AP5-M to make an AOW (just a front grip, no stock), to have more variety in my collection and a gun Neo had lol I should do a second one to match his pair :)
Binary triggers in all of them is a dream come true and I never imagined it when I bought my first one all those years ago.
Would love for B&T to make the APC in 5.7x28 especially since they make a 5.7 specific suppressor
"Our wives AND girlfriends" can be taken a couple different ways LOL
Looked at the APC9 but hit the buy now button on the SP5 10 min ago. I love the way the MP5 shoots, love its history. The latest, greatest is only that for a short time. Iconic is forever.
APC-9 hands down and every day. You don't have to keep a note book on which parts to replace at X number of rounds like on an HK. Also you can drop after-market triggers in the APC-9 that give you a nice 2.5 break.
If only the MP5 typically came with an empty magazine bolt hold-open then I could justify buying it for more than just cool factor.
Yep. I wish there were more MP5 clones with the MP5/10 or MP5/40 style receiver that have the last round bolt hold open and bolt release.
@@usernamealreadytaken770I heard they stopped making it because of reliability issues
Are you using it in combat? Because if so they special forces units that use it seemed to use it without that feature.
@@TuckerDale89 currently or in the 80’s and 90’s? The point he was alluding to is that it’s a dated design
How hard could it be to develop, say a Yugo AK style, magazine follower that an MP5’s bolt hits on an empty mag, notifying the shooter to lock back the charging handle, drop mag, insert new mag, and slap it into battery? The lore that the G3/CETME C doesn’t have a LRBHO feature is that the “violence” of the delayed roller blowback in a full power cartridge would break the hold open mechanism. In theory, that shouldn’t be a problem in a 9mm platform but there’s probably a reason nobody’s done it, even though it could shave one or more seconds off a mag change. It’s a janky solution but this is a 60’s design we’re trying to drag kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
I _love_ B&T; they absolutely rock. That said, nothing will replace the MP5K-PDW, the king of the PDWs - well, maybe the MP7, but we don’t talk about that here. (Proceeds to cry.)
To me, the MP5 is the "cooler" collector piece if that's what you're buying it for. For a modern fighting gun, the APC is the answer. So I'd say they're for different purposes. The MP5 can obviously still get the job done, but why fight an uphill battle with modifying/outfitting it. So, cool factor: MP5. Actual use: APC for me.
I struggled with this decision so much… bought an APC9K three days ago. Hopefully I made the right call lol
@@carpenoctem5421trust me, you did
how is it uphill? all you literally have to do is get a rail handguard and a rail top. The stocks are easily exchangeable as well as the firing group. People nowdays make it sound like its cosmetic surgery to do a modification on the weapon.
Own both in SBR form. Love the MP series but not having to deal with exchanging locking pieces when running suppressed vs unsuppressed is a nice benefit of the B&T. German MP mags and parts can get pricey, and only specialists can work on replacing barrels, setting the bolt gap properly. Simple is good. B&T for the win- Optics mounting, ergo's, cheaper mags, faster mag changes. It's really the perfected 9MM PCC
I was looking for a MP5, couldn’t find one. Was directed to the APC9, got one and love it. Pair it with a nice can like a Deadair Wolfman, and it becomes silky sexy time, never shot an MP5…. Yet. I dig it, James, thanks.
Do yourself a favor, go rent an MP5 and you'll see why so many people fall in love with it. It's a truly phenomenal weapon
I’ve just discovered this channel and I absolutly love it ! James is a unique reporter/demonstrator ! A perfect entertainer.
I bought my first weapon yesterday and it’s a H&K SP5 (MP5 for civilians).
I have been in love with this weapon since many years. It’s such an inconic MP..
Best regards from France !
Guillaume
the dissent, and the Mean Arms guns I think make way more sense right now
Got 'em both (and an MPX-k). They're all great but for the three together, with accessories included (and that crazy expensive B&T telescopic brace/tailhook) I'm in for just about 10 grand on the trio. 10,000... for semi auto 9mm's. It's an illness, but once you have them, range time sure is fun, and you make a lot of new friends.
If you had to go on gas level when suppressed and recoil to a lesser degree, which would you recommend if only one made the cut? Thanks!
H&K still reigns supreme. I do like/own a few of the B&T suppressors, attached to H&K guns, excellent product.
You are correct sir"" we are absolute idiots" I have an APC-9, paid my 3k , almost, and your assessment was spot on. It is one fine tool.
I was no joke researching the b&t ghm45 last night! Gotta love pccs! You should do a video on the iwi uzi pro! Very slept on pcc!
It's a Micro-Uzi without the 1200 RPM, meh. It lacks what makes it properly cool.
@@r0b3rt_959you could say that about any semi-auto pcc..
These are both really cool and while the H&K is more well known, the other expensive 9mm firearm of this type that is on my radar, IF I had the money, is the Sig MPX.
SIG EWW
@@BAD_GRIMah yes, the SIG Enhanced Wonder Weapon.
You should review that lee sporting MP5 lower that "modernizes" the mp5. Mag catch BUTTON is obtainable with trigger finger, and can drop in better AR triggers
I had to choose between SP5, APC9 and SPC9 just a few months ago. I decided to get the SP5 because it's a classic. Both of the B&Ts would have been objectively better, but you just can't beat the classy looks of the SP5.
If I were to get an SP5, I would have to go the SBR or AOW route.
They just don't look right without the classic MP5K foregrip.
I'd probably do a reverse stretch with an A3 sliding buttstock.
@@tylerwilliams6022Here in Finland a rifle has to have a 12" barrel so suppressor had to be permanently istalled to the muzzle when I bought it. SBRs (less than 12") are practicly banned nowadays from civilians. It came with an A2 stock and I bought an A3F stock to get even sexier looks.
@@ohamalai I guess that's my bad for automatically assuming you were in the US.
And I thought the SP5 was the name for the MP5K sans foregrip. Here in the US we also have weird restrictions on having a pistol with a vertical foregrip. That's what I was alluding to to make something more MP5 K'ish.
I understand what you are talking about now. Being restricted to 12 inch barrels isn't too bad for rifles. And it sounds like suppressors aren't a big deal for you guys either.
I think for your standard MP5s, I just prefer the plain A3 with sliding buttstock. If it weren't so much more red tape and price, an MP5SD clone would be rather sweet!
I have both, both are awesome. The B&T glock lower is definitely the way to go over the original B&T. The B&T mag feed lips are sharp and will cut you when trying to load.
You know, if you have the bank to afford one, you probably have the bank to afford both.
Still, my inner SAS loving Anglophile says that you’ll never go wrong with an MP5
I can't help but note the irony of an Anglophile loving a German submachine gun. It's funny lol.
@@paleoph6168 true. But then again, it’s German, not French. It’s an important distinction!
Im swiss so ofcourse i had to invest in the APC9 pro and i love it.
Both are incredible weapons for sure. Maybe one day I will buy one or both but for now I will be happy with my Beretta CX4 Storm. Accurate, reliable, and well under $1000.
I know I'm behind but I'm getting my first b&t APC9k pro I'm extremely excited.
Excellent report, I am sold!
Thank you, brother. I always enjoy your videos.
The double sniff: “did it smell as bad as I thought it did. Yes, yea it does.”
I've shot both, I own an SP5, and I agree, the APC9 is objectively the better gun. If I had to decide again tomorrow, I'd buy the SP5 again, but I won't pretend it's the rational choice.
I have the b&T apc 9 pro and my uncle owns the hksp5 i can easily say the controls on the apc are much faster and easier to use but the hk just has that cool feeling … if i had to pick just one it would be the b&T
Great video, but I would have liked to see the Sig MPX K in the mix.
Would have liked to see the CMMG Dissent and the Sig MPX in the mix. Maybe next time?
I love B&T. Your vid there a while back was awesome. If you haven't seen War Dogs, - do. Bradley Cooper plays Heinrich Thomet. Great movie. Thanks for this video. Anything mp9 or B&T has always been a homerun for you. Your wet shirt had me & my kid rolling.
I love the mp5 irons just running them irons is fun. The B&T is a modern update of it. At least B&T more customizable but both suffer mag cost though and the B&T is more ergonomic with attachments.
While the APC9 is quite a bit lighter, I can't help but laugh at how you weighted the mp5 down with an Eotech and had the APC9 with no optic. 😅
Are you talking about where he shows them on the scales? There's no optics on either one
Rewatching this as I debate a new PPC purchase, and I would love to see James and Ryan review the APC223 and the SPC223 if that ever gets released.
We're only idiots until the fun time tools we collect finally start coming in handy.
James is the only reason i watch TFBTV
James is definitely THE MP-5 Fan!!!!
The problem with both of these designs is our government; specifically the ATF making it a PITA to own one configured how everyone would want it (with as stock).
And if you want to comment and complain how a $200 tax stamp shouldn't be a PITA if you can afford either of these, it's not the money; it's the principle.
*Final score:*
MP5: 5
APC-9: 9
ATF: -69 (because the only time they 69 is with two dudes)
Having shot all 3. My favorite is the spc9 with glock lower. The B&T lower looks cool, but the mags wont seat nearly as easily as the glock mags so I have to down-load it by 1 in order to fit. With glock mags all 33rds fit without having to use excessive for for it to seat. Not only that, with the B&T mags the bolt release is damn near impossible to release with 1 finger, but with glock mag, there is no problem, I was shocked at how much easier it was after I switch from the B&T lower to the Glock lower.
As far as apc vs spc. I prefer the look of the spc and it provides a cheek weld. It's also small enough to fit in my backpack with a suppressor attached. The apc9k is smaller, but it provides no other benefit and less room for attachments.
if you're gonna require a buffer tube anyway, get a JP5 with a short barrel
@@0Asterite0 It's not just the tube for me..
The SPC9 is still smaller with the suppressor attached. I paid only $2200 for it with the telescopic stock ($2400 with tax stamp). The JP-5 isn't worth 3.2k especially for something I hate the look of.
The SPC9 is softer shooting than the apc9 at least it seemed that way to me, but even then the recoil of an apc9 is nothing to begin with. Even when I shot the SP5 I couldn't notice a drastic difference in recoil so roller delayed isnt really intriguing enough to spend an extra 1k on.
I also trust B&T more than JP when it comes to long term hard uses durability & reliability.
I think the best options are either the SPC9 or APC9k (if you're going for the smallest possible setup) both with glock lowers..
James' Pro TIP................... wanted by many
Love this revue.
You should do the comparison of the SD models if you can. I have both and it’s hard to pick one
What about the MPX?
The shooting experience between the two is night and day. The B&T would be a perfect SMG if they didn't cheap out and make it blow back. But they did, so in my mind the MP5 still reigns. It makes you look good because its so much softer shooting. About the mags, since you mentioned aftermarket APC9 mags its only fair to point out that the same exists for the MP5 as well. AC Unity, KCI, MKE etc. Not all are great magazines, the HKs are very reliable. But for a range toy, you have options.
The several hundred dollar hydraulic buffer pushes it past “just a blowback” lol.
@@03Grunt-arrino I can't say that it does in practice. Having shot it back to back with the MP5, it is not as smooth shooting. Seems like a nitpick. And maybe it is. But I, and everyone else with me at the time, were able to shoot noticeably faster followups with the MP5 and do so accurately. Like I said, it makes you look good.
@@mattwhite7421so how did the B&T compare to other direct blowback pcc's you've shot?
I think it compares well to some of the other modern PCCs like the scorpion evo and the KP9. Best bang for buck is probably building a decent AR-9 because you can reuse a lot of good and cheap AR-15 parts. I own both an AR-9 and an MP5 fwiw.@@dakolbycrittenden-brown229
@@mattwhite7421 I agree the MP5 is certainly smoother, but I’m saying we give credit to B&T where due. I’m buying the telescopic stock for my APC and the damn buffer makes it so expensive haha.
B&T needs to redo the TP9 and make it their own. The steyr design kinda blows, but the format is amazing
Seriously. People are getting more into PCCs but they recognize that smaller is objectively better because a large PCC isn’t worth it over an SBR AR15.
They should also make it have standard tri lug so it can take any suppressor
Yep it has ugly lines and horrible trigger that can't be replaced.
Having shot both of these (and the MPX) I bought the MPX.
Own both. SP5 feels better in the hands, recoil is better and more natural for me. APC9 has its advantages but SP5 feels at home so rarely shoot APC9. I have put the rounds through the APC9 also but always grab SP5 first. Very personal decision between these 2. The bombproof mags on HK much better than the BT. Comparing mag prices on a platform this expensive feels like splitting hairs to give an extra bump to BT. Adding a Knights foregrip with optics mount solves the optic mounting issues on the HK. From my view it’s a dead heat and the only edge is BT having last round hold open.
Glock mags are wayyy better and reliable than HK mags.
Really enjoying all the B&T content! Would love to see your thoughts on the B&T APC 308, how it compares to the SCAR, AR10, etc.
I’m left handed, the MP5s mag release button is actually quite handy for up backwards people!
APC is just awesome!!!
My friends, if you want a real comparition, use the APC9-P (Police) with the longer barrel. Otherwise, always great content from tfbtv!
Great Die Hard reference!
Lingle Industries also makes Scorpion mag lowers for the APC-9, so you've got a LOT of options for it.
I really, REALLY want an APC-9, but frankly the B&T GHM9 being half the price is so absurdly compelling.
I have an HK SP5 and a B&T APC9. Both are extremely accurate. The felt recoil on the APC9 is a tiny bit more than the SP5, but you really have focus to feel it. The APC9 is more ergonomic than the SP5. The only difference for me, and it is highly subjective, is that the SP5 (with the factory handguard) just feels better in my hands. It makes the gun feel like a part of me. I couldn't part with either.
Karl Brugger is the greatest firearm designer since John Browning.
B&T simply is the master race of firearms.
APC223 is still my favorite that I own & I have six.
Lol. He has built blowback pccs, ar18 copies and a bolt action rifle. No way he is better than Eugene Stoner.
MP5s once kitted are just as heavy as your typical Mk18 SBR so I feel like the MP5k is actually the better buy. Still relevant depending on concealment needs
Keep trying boys, you'll NEVER dethrone the mighty MP5 👑
Exactly, my MP5 is my end of the world gun. Its just a badass, and sexy AF to boot.
I chose the B&T APC-9, and have two now. Love the MP5 (PDW), but the B&T is modern. Never had a malfunction with the APC9.
Both phenomenal guns, and would love either one equally if I had the $$$ to blow on one. That said, my CZ Scorpion Evo 3 rocks. Much love James!
I was thinking the same. For the money, surely a CZ Scorpion isn't a bad choice.
Fairly new firearm with a more modern layout. And the price isn't bad either.
Haven't priced them lately, what are they like $1600?
Plus you get that legendary CZ quality.
I agree the cz flat gits it! I have the evo3 s2 micro LE pkg and freakin love it! Added new trigger oversized charging handle mag release and AK style safety bad to the bone!
@@tylerwilliams6022I think they’re around $800 or less right now. Great time to get one for those who don’t own one yet
@@alexhdz512 Wow, that's not bad at all!
Only downside at the moment is the Pistol Brace rule is yet to completely crumble.
I may have to look into getting a Scorpion.
I would probably add a Sapper handguard rail as I think thoss look sick on a Scorpion.
😮 Bashing the MP5? You should be excommunicado for this!
The APC9 pro is really today’s version of Swiss perfection ! They are a H&K oem supplier so that says a LOT ! JMO …
Let's be honest the mp5 is cooler and in the end thats why anyone is buying a pcc in the year 2023.
MP5 for many reason Design, Controllable , Reliability, Ergonomic and Low recoil.
*likely never fired either one
And sex appeal.
Great video!
Why not compare to the Sig MPX as well?
Because he already did that twice in two videos
I was just hoping the hi point crowd would step in.😉
I love my APC nine SD that I purchased a few years ago. I use some of the money from the truck I sold ha ha.
It's worth noting that you can get some very good clones/knockoffs of the MP5 for about half the price. The APC9, however, is a unique beast unto itself.
I love my PTR best purchase ever made.
It's too bad the B&T Glock magazine lowers aren't properly ambi in terms of the mag release :/
Having to reach the front edge of the magazine well in a firing grip when operating the gun left handed isn't something most people can do without some sort of surgical extension to their left index finger :D
Noticed the same thing. I quite like the normal APC mags, they are fine.
Also had to cut the left side safety down to keep it eating my left hand up.
You should be comparing it to the latest MPX that comes with the timney trigger.
If money wasn't a problem, I'm sure the answer by far is BOTH!
Dang, I did it wrong. I bought the wife an SP5 to SBR, and I got me an APC10 pro to SBR. They both work just fine.
I’d go mp5 if in automatic. Semi auto, APC9 with Glock mags. Wish they made APC 9 & TP9 for Colt Style Mags. I would’ve bought one along time ago
Love my apc9
"the mp5 died 20 years ago like Mr Rodgers"
However the mp5 is still around as even death fears to take it
Also you didn't add 1000 swag/drip/John McClain used it - points to the mp5
100% - Every time a new PCC hits the market..... "This is the MP5 killer!" Except it's still here. and everyone continues to compare their gun to it.
Exactly, well said. I was waiting the whole time for an x-factor/cool points category in which the MP5 would have beaten the stuffing out of the APC 😂
@@TescoVee yea the only downside is it doesn't take Glock mags, but you can't fault it when it's take 30 years for Glock mags to be cheap, large capacity, and everywhere
Not to mention Glock was making shovels when the MP5 came out
Tho I'm sure there are some workarounds that make it take Glock mags, like cutting the top off one n adding an adapter
Or some kinda crazy stuff like that
Not sure about the first SMG since the grease gun statement as the USN Seal teams used the MP5 extensively from the 80s through the early 00s.
The correct answer is both
If you are really budget limited pick up an MP5 clone, MKE clones imported by Century Arms are running closer to $1K every day. Use the money you save to buy an APC9 or the less expensive B&T GHM9
Also TFB, you should do an MP5 vs SPC9 video. Or even an SPC9 vs APC9 video. (I'm strongly considering picking up an SPC9 and want to see how it stacks up against everything. My MP5s aren't going anywhere and I don't know what my next B&T should be lol)
The SPC9 is nearly identical to the APC9 from a functional standpoint. The buffer system is ever so slightly different and felt recoil is a little less as a result but it's really a case of picking a slightly more compact package with the APC, or a slightly more familiar set of controls with the SPC
9:17 You can also get lower that take MP5 magazines.
How tall was your ladder to get that shot of Tim from above?!
I can't justify that kind of price for a 9mm sub gun, and I own an MPX. Mine was $1600 for a factory 8" SBR in 2016. I know they haven't gotten any cheaper but they aren't pushing $3k+ like these two.
Nah give me a Tec-9 and a broken beer bottle 😂
the best 9mm carabine is the B&T GHM9, all the advantage of the APC9 (with a bit more recoil), but cheaper, and more reliable, the APC9 don't eat the crap surplus 9mm ammo, but the GHM9 eat them, and eat everything is 9*19mm parabellum.
Cries in PSA AKV9, but then laughs in cheap scorpion mags, and easy, and surprisingly accurate bumpfire ability.
I’m never going to be in a position to use the APC-9 for combat since I’m just a civilian in Idaho. MP5 for cool factor for me and if I do need to use it, it will work just fine.
If money isn’t considered, a fully kitted out mp5 is absolutely the answer. The non existent recoil coupled with the bomb proof reliability makes it the right answer for me. I have 10k rounds on mine and it’s never given me a reason to doubt it. It’s more reliable than death or taxes.
Sp5, Bt telescoping stock rails, gibbous outdoor a3 stock, claw mount, exps 3-0, sef lower, timney trigger, surefire forend with malkov sho guts, and some coupled mags, 2 point sling.
The only two complaints I have are the weight, and the lack of an automatic bolt hold. I’ll deal with those issues all day for the reliability factor alone.
for the weight comparison it'd be a closer comparison between the mp5k and b&t since their barrel lengths aren't the same. But honestly, just get an ap5. Its an sp5 without the German markings but still using the German tooling. With the amount of money you save, you can upgrade the ap5/ap5p to surpass the apc9. Just slap a mlok handgaurd, pic optic rail, and timney trigger in and you now have softer recoil, modern mounting options, and an equivalent or better trigger all for less than 2k. The APC will still win in manual of arms though but that's expected given the time difference.
You can get a Century import MP5 clone from MKE for under $1k right now.
Kind of surprised James didn't cosplay McClane.
I mean we have to give the win to the mp5
Final score was
Mp5: 3 points + the giga chad prestige (42069 points)
APC: 5 points
As much as I adore the MP5 the B&T APC is the king of SMGs.. Not having that awkard reload while still having great realibility
I'll take both.